Nothing is Black or White
Intro by Perrie Halpern
In recent weeks that have followed 2 police shootings of black men and the sniper attack that lead to the deaths of 5 Dallas Police officers and another 15 injured, there has been an overwhelming attempt to paint the situation as black or white, but in the figurative sense and actual. The more I read, the more despondent I have become about the state of this nation.
For blacks who wear their skin daily, this cuts to the core of the day to day life and across all socioeconomic lines. Yes, they made gains during the civil rights era, but they bare the scars of those who in their community are pointed to as what is wrong with blacks in general. There is no escaping their skin, no matter how educated or well off they are, since the first thing we all see is color. To say anything else is a lie.
For whites, when they see angry black protesters saying some very ugly things they are deeply disturbed. And although obviously these individuals don't represent the whole black community, it is hard not to be a little fearful when they hear some of them making very inflamatory remarks, both about whites and about the police.
Are either party wrong? No. Is either party right? No. The truth is not black or white but somewhere in between. Various media sources tend to feed which ever side of the argument plugs into them, and they spin until finally, the fear factor kicks in. Once that has happened, logic goes out the window, emotions kick in and all discussion stops.
Race relations isn't something that can be achieved in a meme, 140 character tweet, or a like on a Facebook post. It is something that takes true communication about what the issues are, and how to improve them. The only problem is that most don't even want to recognize there is a problem in the first place, other than to put the blame on the other party. There is very little looking deep into our own hearts and recognizing our faults and how this can feed this endless cycle. And without that capacity, how can real change ever really come?
So I came across a very interesting article, that was the springboard for this. I am hoping for a dialog, and not blame.
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Black doctor to police: I defend you, I will care for you — but I still fear you
Brian Williams, a Dallas surgeon who treated officers killed in the July 7 attacks, says the violence towards black men and retaliation against police "has to stop." Dr. Williams, a trauma surgeon at Parkland Memorial Hospital, poses for a photo at the hospital on July 11 in Dallas. (Eric Gay/AP)
Trauma surgeon Brian Williams was running Parkland Memorial Hospital’s emergency room the night seven officers arrived after a shooting rampage in downtown Dallas by a lone gunman who targeted police.
Williams, whose hospital routinely treats multiple gunshot victims, quickly went to work that night.
Later, he choked back tears when describing how three officers died at the hospital.
“I think about it every day, that I was unable to save those cops when they came here that night,” Williams said at an emotional news conference Monday. “It weighs on my mind constantly.”
Williams is also a black man who said he was deeply affected by “the preceding days of more black men dying at the hands of police officers.” He understands the anger directed toward police and has had his own run-ins with officers in which he feared for his life.
He straddles both worlds. Last week’s experience was “a turning point in my life,” he said.
“There’s this dichotomy where I’m standing with law enforcement, but I personally feel and understand the angst that comes when you cross an officer in uniform,” he said Monday. “I’ve been there. I understand that. But for me, that does not condone disrespecting or killing police officers.”
“I abhor what has been done to these officers and I grieve with their families,” he said.
Two fatal police shootings of black men — Alton Sterling in Baton Rouge on Tuesday, and Philando Castile in Falcon Heights, Minn. on Wednesday — sparked national outrage last week.
Protesters demonstrated in various cities. On Thursday, a peaceful Black Lives Matter rally in downtown Dallas had just ended when a gunman, 25-year-old Micah Johnson , opened fire.
Five officers were killed and nine more injured.
On Monday, Williams acknowledged “the anger and the frustration and distrust of law enforcement, but they are not the problem. The problem is the lack of open discussions about the impact of race relations in this country,” he said. “This killing it has to stop. Black men dying and being forgotten, people retaliating against the people sworn to defend us, we have to come together and end all this.”
Williams recounted to the Associated Press how police have stopped him over the years, and that he is scared each time he could be killed. He tries to be mindful to act in a way that doesn’t appear threatening, he told AP.
“In one traffic stop, he ended up ‘spread eagle’ on the hood of the cruiser. In another, when he was stopped for speeding, he had to wait until a second officer arrived,” AP reported. “Just a few years ago, he was stopped by an officer and questioned as he stood outside his apartment complex waiting for someone to pick him up and drive him to the airport.”
He told AP, “I’m always just praying for the encounter to end.”
“I want the Dallas Police Department to see I support you. I defend you. I will care for you. That doesn’t mean I will not fear you,” he said Monday. “That doesn’t mean that when you approach me, I will not have a visceral reaction and start worrying about my personal safety.”
Williams has a 5-year-old daughter. When out in public together, he likes to “do simple things” to show kindness to officers, such as picking up officers’ tabs at a restaurant.
“I want my daughter to see me interacting with police officers that way so that she doesn’t grow up with the same burden I have,” he said.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-nation/wp/2016/07/12/black-doctor-to-police-i-defend-you-i-will-care-for-you-but-i-still-fear-you/?utm_term=.7535684c1e16
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It is my desire to have a real discussion on this. Please don't politicize this. This is about the human aspect.
Race relations isn't something that can be achieved in a meme, 140 character tweet, or a like on a Facebook post.
Excellent observation. Unfortunately everywhere you turn these days people have their noses pointed at their cell phone screen. Who's gonna have dialog with that going on ?
Well, I have to agree Pat. Our new communication is a blessing and a curse.
We should grieve for the families of all of the above and, where there is still a living suspect a thorough and fair investigation is in order.
I agree Randy. The only way to try and get passed any of this, is to first recognize the loss of all of these families.
first recognize the loss of all of these families.
To recognize our common humanity. There are still people who, subconsciously or not, do not consider people of different races then their own as truly human beings also, because of the insulation of their own culture that they tend to be raised in. The end of segregation was meant to help end this, but I went to a desegregated school (via busing) and yet the Black students (for the most part) stayed only around other Blacks students and the same was true with the White and Hispanic students. It wasn't until I was in the Air Force that I truly had a sense of integration of different races and beliefs. The military forces it on you and can accept it as a change in your life or not. I chose to accept it.
We have a huge group that is going to boycott our next reunion if there aren't more black faces there. I don't know how to get them to come, but I played in band with a lot of them, and would love to see them again... We were friends all those years ago-- can't we still be friends?
We were friends all those years ago-- can't we still be friends?
I would hope so. Why the resistance to coming?
I don't know. Maybe it is the organizers, who are former cheerleaders, etc. But THEY were the stars, not the snooty snoots... I miss them. I would get in touch with them, if I could, and try to invite them to go with me, but no one seems to know how to reach them...
Oh you may be able to find them.
give me one of their names.
I'll have to get out the yearbook-- Right now, my mind is blank.
But, yes, I'm going to make a greater effort to find them, and make sure they know they are wanted, welcome, and if they don't want to attend by themselves, they can come with me!
Well Dowser,
Everyone knows that Cheerleaders are evil. There is your problem.
Obviously, that's it... I think they don't feel welcome. I think we need to change that!
Everyone knows that Cheerleaders are evil.
That's why they and Sorority sisters are always the number one victims in slasher movie...'jus sayin'.....
Excellent reply Randy. It seems that most people have a hard time getting out of their comfort zone when it comes to race. Yes, we all know someone of a different race, but do we really hang with them? It wasn't until I was a teacher, that I could say yes to that.
Yes, as a band parent, I do.
It seems that most people have a hard time getting out of their comfort zone when it comes to race.
Though racism never made any sense to me before I went in, the military forces desegregation on you. It forces you out from your comfort zone. "You WILL serve closely with people of different races and religions and you WILL respect them, if you like it or not!" Some people played it as a game. Go along to get along types, while keeping their bigotries alive. Others, most of us I think, looked at it as something more serious then that, like a learning experience and it changes how you feel. When it came to how I feel about different people, the military was the best thing that ever happened to me.
It has come to this, and I don't know how or when it can change. Because of your 1st and 2nd amendments, I think you are going to have a much harder time to reverse the trend. The media are licking their chops - the situation is good for business, so they certainly are not going to take the lead. Where is Dr. King when America needs him more than ever? Where is ANY leader who has the charisma and respect that people will listen to them and be influenced?
Buzz,
I am not going to blame this on guns.. at least not at this level. This is more about perceptions we have about each other. It is very easy to make sweeping generalizations and much harder to actually pin point on how we can fix the problem.
Yes it would be wonderful if there were leaders who had the courage of Dr. King. The message is what mattered.
Say what you will, Perrie, but guns give a person a bravado, a type of courage to do what they might not have the courage otherwise to do, to do the talking for them instead of verbalizing.
No guns were involved in this doctors tale. He is just talking about how he feels.
Okay, then discount that - if you're looking for a solution, I reiterate it is going to take some charismatic leaders who are capable of motivating people to make a change. Think about when Kennedy said "Ask not what your country can do for you - ask what you can do for your country", and hundreds if not thousands of young people signed up for the Peace Corps, or when Dr. King said "I have a dream" - a speech that resounded around the world and is still known even here.
Again Buzz, yes maybe, but we also have to be the change we want to see.
Some who are not totally polarized may see what is happening, and will change, but I cannot imagine that society as a whole will change their existing prejudices without motivation, and that motivation needs to be something stronger than the existing prejudices in order to overcome them.
otherwise one can end up with the position that it is understandable if police mistreat blacks because blacks commit more crime, and you are back to infringing on individual rights as a response to "group" behavior
there can be a "truth" about black on black crime" , or black crime, and there can be a truth about police mistreatment of blacks
i dont think there is the same truth about both
Who goes off track? Perrie? me? Randy? The article author? Please clarify.
I have to disagree. The police respond to threats. It those threats are being generated by a specific demographic, they tend to hone in on them, be it right or wrong. And by the same token, those who want to spin it that all blacks behave a specific way and somehow by association all blacks should have to put up with being treated as suspects, which is unfair to blacks that are good citizens but just happen to fit a general discription. This creates an environment ripe for this kind of fear by all parties. It isn't right, but it is part of the problem.
It seems to me that your premise is akin to "all lives matter". That one aspect cannot be emphasized without reference to the other. I don't agree with that, people can emphasize as they choose.
"All Lives Matter", intentionally or not (and it is intentional on the part of some) is an attempt to water down the meaning and effect of "black lives matter".
People who want to wail on black crime should do it within it's own context.
"All Lives Matter", intentionally or not (and it is intentional on the part of some) is an attempt to water down the meaning and effect of "black lives matter".
Agreed.
Black lives matter is about the relationship between blacks and the police. I would know since it all started in Baltimore and my kids gave me the blow by blow.
I never said anything about all lives matter. Not that, that statement is wrong, but it also doesn't negate what the BLM movement was trying to do, which is highlight the blacks relationship with the police. But note: while I agree that you have to walk a mile in someone else's shoes to understand what their lives are like, you also have to take some responsibility for the community you live in. In order for BLM to be a worthwhile endeavor, they must also look inward to their own communities. It has started to happen, but there needs to be more.
But in regards to black on black crime, it hurts their community. It hurts all blacks on how they are perceived and ingrains stereotypes. It isn't right, but it is human nature, and it is something that you would like to ignore.
In order for BLM to be a worthwhile endeavor, they must also look inward to their own communities.
Black lives matter is about the relationship between blacks and the police.
Although not egregiously so, you are clearly contradicting yourself.
If Black Lives Matter is concerned with police behavior, and it is, it is not directly concerned with black crime.
Here would be one of my analogies. Someone enters your yard and goes into your garage and steals a bunch of stuff.
Would you accept it as a reasonable position from the police if they told you they were not going to investigate the crime and find your stuff unless you first put a better lock on the door?
I watched the original press conference when the doctor made his comments. It was obvious to me that this is a very delicate subject for him and weighs on him.
I felt that he explained his experience and how he approaches it very well. It is worth taking his thoughts/comments/experience to heart and attempt to understand his position and what he and many minorities deal with everyday.
His experience and feelings are probably not something that non minorities ever have to think about.
The only way we can, as a country, face the divide is to have open and honest discussions. I've said in other posts that broad brushing any group leads to, no discussion.
I'm hopeful that with the doctor opening up and telling it as he see's and feels it, will cause others of all colors to open their minds and listen to one another.
Well said Kavika. I have the feeling that some people will read my opening and miss the main event, which is what the doctor was trying to convey.
The doctor was trying to convey how he felt uncomfortable when confronted by policemen. Is that correct? He has had bad experiences before and with the media and examples of others he knows, I'm sure he probably has reason to feel this way from their stories, but what do you suggest we do beyond looking into our hearts and recognize our faults?
I think that just about anything having to do with the human condition is shades of gray. For those of us who cannot see the shades of gray, it is easy, and simplistic, to blame other parties for everything. But, I think it was Alex de Tocqueville that said that Americans seem to want simple solutions, and simple answers. There are no simple solutions to this one, but we all want one.
I admit that the time I was in an elevator at my office building downtown, it scared me that 5 of the U of L basketball players got on the elevator with me. I mean, they're 7' tall, and giants, to me. But would I have been as nervous if they had been white? I rode in elevators for about 5 days in Indianapolis, when I was staying at a hotel hosting the World Wide Wrestling match out by the airport. Those guys were scary too! And I was terrified at first! But they were lovely-- they offered to help me with all my field gear and equipment. In the case of the elevator at my office building, we all ended up laughing about it, and I apologized for being scared. I imagine my eyes were bugging out, as they all got in... But, after all, getting into an enclosed space-- a small enclosed space-- with 5 guys that are all 7' tall, when you're 5' tall, would likely make anyone nervous-- especially in downtown Louisville.
But then, too, I was equally scared when I stayed at a hotel for 3 nights where the Roller Derby Queens were staying. And rightfully so-- a couple of them got into huge fights in the elevator... You can't talk 'nice' to them, and they would likely love to thump you. I showed the better part of valor by getting off if they got on. Or not getting on the elevator at all, if they were beating each other up. AND smiling. In a friendly way. Some of these women are tough!
See, it's all gray. I try hard not be prejudiced, but likely am. I don't know the answers. About all I can do is try my best to be kind to everyone, and listen to their concerns, and try my best NOT to be prejudiced. I love the band kids-- who are of all stripes and colors, and they seem to love me back, thank God. I hug on them, which I'm probably not supposed to do, but I only hug on the girls, and do my best to be of help to them. Besides, I'm no threat to anyone.
I try my best to understand their point of view, but let's face it. I'm white. I have no idea what it is to grow up black. Poor, I can relate to, but black, I can't. I know how mad I've gotten when people discounted me just because I'm a woman. I guess it would be about 100X worse than that. And, I've been in fear for my life, when I've gone into a MacDonald's and found myself the only white face... The looks I got were killers. Again, I took the coward's way out, smiled at everyone, and quietly left. And being stopped by the sheriff isn't a pleasant experience in some of our counties. Notably around the Klu Klux Klan enclave. One never knows if just being will piss them off.
So, no, I haven't been there and done that. I want to understand how the people feel, and want to have a dialogue about how we can solve these problems. I'm willing. i'm open. Just don't look down at me from 7' feet up and growl down on me... That's scary!
I admit that the time I was in an elevator at my office building downtown, it scared me that 5 of the U of L basketball players got on the elevator with me. I mean, they're 7' tall, and giants, to me. But would I have been as nervous if they had been white?
I don't know why you were nervous about them being black Dowser.
They were giants. I mean GIANTS. And my office was about two blocks from one of the worst housing projects in the city. They were lovely and we all laughed, but I have to admit that them being giant and black scared me... I didn't know if they would commit murder in the elevator on the way up to work. Which of course, they didn't.
I'm not proud that I was scared, and very likely showed a visceral prejudice, but in similar situations-- the Roller Derby Queens and the WWW wrestlers, who were white, I was scared, too. I mean, and you can't imagine, but kneel down to 5' and see my view of the world. It's scary down here, sometimes! I could implant my chin on their belt buckles...
That was a very heartfelt post, Dowser. We have all had those moments. I think a lot of it goes to how we were raised. Remember the song "You've got to be carefully taught" from South Pacific? I think that is a very hard thing to get out of a person, once we have been carefully taught
When I was growing up, my grandparents, who were born while Victoria was still on the throne, called them "darkies" and "coloreds". My great-aunt once told me that a colored woman could never be a lady... My father regularly used the N-word. So, yes, I grew up around prejudice and am doing my best to overcome it. It takes a lot of self-examination and takes a lot of honesty. I can't help my fear. It was a visceral reaction. But, I'm trying... I don't want to be this person who looks down on blacks or anyone. We're all in this life together, and we can live together peaceably. That's what I feel. I was being honest.
Maybe I'm just scared around giant people. Whatever color they may be. I feel like they could squish me, if they so desire. And there are a lot of giants out there in the world. The WWW people were huge, and muscular, and I was small, and weighed 95 pounds, at the time. Easily squished, and the way they act on TV, they seem to be towering rages of testosterone. I don't know about the Roller Derby Queens, but they looked like they could and would eat me for breakfast... Scary women, although I did like their hairdos... I feel that if I had taken the time to get to know them, I might have enjoyed their company-- but getting to know them was tough, because they were spoiling for a fight. Best to just get out of the way...
I am truly trying... That has to be of value somewhere... And honest about my short-comings.
That is my favorite musical, Perrie... I can still sing all of the songs!
I mean, they're 7' tall, and giants, to me. But would I have been as nervous if they had been white?
Only you can answer that Dowser. I tend to go into situations like that projecting non-fear. For instance, for reasons I'd rather not get into, I spent 72 hours in the LAPD 77th Street lockup, which is in South L.A. I was, literally, the only white man in a 20 person dorm cell. If I had projected fear I think I would have been eaten alive. However I have no fear of Black people simply because they are Black. To me their color or race was meaningless. They are just other people in the cell with me, Black or White. If you ignore their race or color as it relates to you, then you have no problems. In jail if you treat everyone with respect, they tend to treat you with respect back. You are also treated as just another person in the cell. It was the same in the Air Force.
Besides we all had something in common. None of wanted to be there in the first place.
I've wondered about this for years and done a lot of self-examination about it... I have to admit, I was afraid because they were huge and black. All they would have to do is step on me, like a bug. Once I 'got to know them', we were all fine, and they thought it was funny. Thank heavens!
I spent 72 hours in the LAPD 77th Street lockup, which is in South L.A. I was, literally, the only white man in a 20 person dorm cell.
You have me beat. I thought I had turned in my father's "Notice To Debtors" I don't know what it is called, but I didn't realize I hadn't turned it in after his death. They had an arrest warrant out for me for 6 months I was unaware of until the Sheriff's Deputy came to my front door one day and ask if I was who he was looking for. I said yes and he said come with me you're under arrest for Contempt of Court. I didn't have any idea what he was talking about, but when you miss a court date, you don't get bail.
They put me in a cell with 4 young black guys. They were smoking the filters on cigarettes and then they brought in the 5th black guy who was delirious and said he would kill someone if they looked at him wrong. Well I admit I was scared. That was a long night for me.
The next day they put me in a room with at least 100 blacks and the one with the gold tooth couldn't take his eyes off me. The fellow next to me who was black told me not to look anyone in the face. The other black guy on the other side told me this was good, he would get a chance to go up to the farm, play some basketball and clean up his debts so to speak.
I was able to make one phone call and it was to my brother who wasn't home thought the start of the message "This is the county jailhouse, will you accept charges" left on his answering machine was a joke. He finally figured it out although he lived over 3 hours away from me. I had a warrant in that county.
I can't tell you how happy I was to see him in his uniform there to pick me up that next night. All I did when I got back in the correct county was go to the newspaper and get a copy of the death notice, carry it to the judge and pay $10.00.
My wife and I just finish filling out our wills, though we still have to get them signed and notarized and found out that the executor of a person's will has to publish a notice in a local paper for (I believe three days) to notify other people of the death to give debtors a chance to file a claim against the estate. Pain in the ass but I didn't know you could get arrested for not doing it?
Maybe its a different state law?
My wife and I just finish filling out our wills, though we still have to get them signed and notarized and found out that the executor of a person's will has to publish a notice in a local paper for (I believe three days) to notify other people of the death to give debtors a chance to file a claim against the estate. Pain in the ass but I didn't know you could get arrested for not doing it?
That's it. I was the executor. I remember now. I was served the papers. I had never had to got to court like that before. I was served in my county. I had forgotten about it and was playing music at Myrtle Beach the very day I was suppose to be in court. I called one of my cousins who was friends with the judge that issued the summons to appear in court. My cousin was a big wheel back home and he just said it's taken care of......well it wasn't and I didn't know it for 6 months. I told the Sheriff's Deputy I had to brush my teeth first and he followed me back to my bathroom while I brushed them I was the only person in a white shirt with dress shoes in that place. I was REALLY WHITE!
OK, we're having a discussion. Where do we go from here? What do you think we should do after we tell each other we need to look into our hearts and recognize our faults? What do you suggest beyond that?
Support those who actually represent the change we want to see. To look at each other as people and give the benefit of the doubt. To try and put ourselves in the other person's shoes, even just for a moment.
Or do you propose that we do nothing and just continue the way we have? Because as I see it, it hasn't been working.
I treat everyone equally. I'm not guilty of treating anyone that isn't white unfairly. I pride myself in being who I am and the way I treat others. I can't make everyone feel the same way I do.
Like I said in another comment on another article, I don't believe living in the past, picking the sore is the way to heal oneself or a nation. But it is a way to get the sore infected and divide a nation if it becomes an obsession.
Like I said in another comment on another article, I don't believe living in the past, picking the sore is the way to heal oneself or a nation. But it is a way to get the sore infected and divide a nation if it becomes an obsession.
How is this living in the past? Did you read the article? The doctor is talking about living in his world now.
He's living it today because of the association of him with the people centralized in different areas of the cities, especially large cities the police have to deal with night and day.
The problem is not only our problem, but the blacks need to take some responsibility for there brothers and sisters as well. Unfortunately it isn't easy for them either.
The problem is not only our problem, but the blacks need to take some responsibility for there brothers and sisters as well. Unfortunately it isn't easy for them either.
Clearly, I have said that the issue is not one race's only. Please read up here:
I bet you anything in the world I am around more blacks than anyone here. I never have any problems, although in some situations I find some will stay close to me to make sure I'm safe. I must be naive..... I never feel unsafe.
You're not 5' tall, old, and frail, either... I have to admit that I'm scared out at the shooting range when the Kentucky Militia comes out to practice firing their weapons. Those are some scary dudes-- and they are armed. It would be easy to go "Oops, I'm sorry, but I blew your wife's head off..." I smile a lot when I'm out there, to show that I'm no threat to anyone. And take a fresh grip on my own weapon, channeling Daddy...
I have to admit that I'm scared out at the shooting range when the Kentucky Militia comes out to practice firing their weapons.
Now I would be scared there!
It IS scary... You don't know what some of these people are going to do. I'm a good shot, but not at sniping. They could snipe!
Funny, how I worked with some of the toughest men in the world-- well drillers-- and never felt fear. Now, that I'm older, I'm more scared. Maybe life has gotten more precious to me, as I've aged... Maybe I'm shrinking, and am not quite 5' tall anymore. Maybe it's having to buy shoes in the children's section... Maybe I feel more helpless and easily preyed upon. Maybe I know that I can't run away... But then, i"ve spent the past few months in bed, unable to lift my legs much... You just don't know about people any more. An old white woman doesn't have much value in society these days...
I remember my Grandma's friends and how fierce they all were. Indomitable. How I miss them!
Maybe I'm shrinking
Yep, that's it. I"ve seen 6 foot people shrink down to 4 feet by the time they reach 90. It's easier to crawl under the bed though.
My mom started at 5'3" and when she died at 80 years old she was 4'10".
Six,
You would have betted wrong. I spent over 20 years teaching in a poor, violent black neighborhood. I had black teacher friends. We all worked together for each other, but there were times when we were all afraid of the population we worked with at one time or another.
So Six you must be blessed, since that has not been my experience.
You would have bet wrong. I spent over 20 years teaching in a poor, violent black neighborhood.
Then getting back to my question and your experience, what do we do other than what I'm already doing?
I don't know the answer.
I put an article up today about fatherlessness. Surely you realize that is a big problem these days and especially in the black neighborhoods. Let me look for something I saw.
Then getting back to my question and your experience, what do we do other than what I'm already doing?
IDK, Six. That is a question that everyone has to answer honestly to themselves and be good with that. The one thing that I have to say is denying that the problem exists, even if it doesn't come from us, would be a mistake. And let me make this clear, it goes all ways with all races.. we are all products of the events of our lives, and if our encounters have jaded us, then we must be real about that, too.
I put an article up today about fatherlessness. Surely you realize that is a big problem these days and especially in the black neighborhoods.
Of course it is. Children need both parents and teaching our teens how to be good parents should be mandatory in every high school (along with abstention). Fatherhood classes should be given in community centers and houses of worship. It is part of the problem, but not the whole problem.
Eleven people on here and just us. Doesn't anyone want to solve the problems in the world other than us. Not a good omen.
Give it some time to build...
We'll get into the Liberal vs Conservative thing before long, I'm sure... It's not a liberal or a conservative thing, it's a people thing!
I hope that isn't sarcasm Six. All but one person who is showing up in chat, has commented.
I hope that isn't sarcasm Six. All but one person who is showing up in chat, has commented.
Well I guess you're right. Time goes by so fast and since I was into it I guess it didn't seem to be moving on fast enough for me.
this is a big part of the problem.
I don't think you guys who are Liberals know what it is like not being a Liberal. You have it easy. All you have to do is feel the pain for someone and you've met your requirement of being a good person. When you Google "black Man Killed By White Officer" that's what you get, but when a non Liberal Googles "Black Man sees what it is like to be a policeman" you see what I get. There's a lot of scratching going on I don't think you are aware of.
Your being used.
That doctor can't be than naive to not understand why the police feel uncomfortable when dealing with blacks, after all he probably sees dozens of them every week in the emergency room that weren't shot by a policeman.
MOST of our police force, here in Louisville, are black. We have a black police chief, too. They have always been kind and courteous to me, as I have been to them. There is a police station not far from my house, and I take them cake every now and then, just to say thanks. Same for the firemen, too.
Six,
First of all, I said clearly that this was not to be politicizing, so I will not be addressing liberal/conservative anything. And your comment:
All you have to do is feel the pain for someone and you've met your requirement of being a good person.
Is very condescending. This article isn't about feeling someone else's pain, but rather actually doing something that moves us forward, and a comment like that is exactly the opposite.
That doctor can't be than naive to not understand why the police feel uncomfortable when dealing with blacks, after all he probably sees dozens of them every week in the emergency room that weren't shot by a policeman.
And he also probably sees a lot of people who were shot by white folks too. Should he think that whites are violent by that logic? The police have a hard job. No one is denying that. And the stresses of their job can make them a bit jumpy. But there is also no denying that there are bum cops on every force around the nation, since the police are made up of a cross section of the population. That is also a reality, too.
It would be impossible for me to exist with racial prejudice where I am just about the only white person around. One does learn to get along in that situation, and I have no problem with it. In the 10 years that I've been here I have experienced only one case of anti-white prejudice, and I'll put that down to ignorance.
I am sure you stick out in a crowd in China, Buzz. So having only one incident is pretty good.
OK, open for business
Racial profiling is a longstanding and deeply troubling national problem despite claims that the United States has entered a “post-racial era.” It occurs every day, in cities and towns across the country, when law enforcement and private security target people of color for humiliating and often frightening detentions, interrogations, and searches without evidence of criminal activity and based on perceived race, ethnicity, national origin, or religion. Racial profiling is patently illegal, violating the U.S. Constitution’s core promises of equal protection under the law to all and freedom from unreasonable searches and seizures. Just as importantly, racial profiling is ineffective. It alienates communities from law enforcement, hinders community policing efforts, and causes law enforcement to lose credibility and trust among the people they are sworn to protect and serve.
We rely on the police to protect us from harm and promote fairness and justice in our communities. But racial profiling has led countless people to live in fear, casting entire communities as suspect simply because of what they look like, where they come from, or what religion they adhere to.
Racial profiling affects a wide array of communities of color. More than 240 years of slavery and 90 years of legalized racial segregation have led to systemic profiling of blacks in traffic and pedestrian stops. Since September 11, 2001, members of Muslim, Arab, and South Asian communities have been profiled by airline personnel, federal law enforcement, and local police.
The federal government’s encouragement of unprecedented raids on immigrant communities and workplaces by local law enforcement in cooperation with federal agencies has targeted Latino communities in particular. These policies have unjustly expanded the purview of and undermined basic trust in local law enforcement, alienated immigrant communities, and created an atmosphere of fear. Anti-immigrant rhetoric has led to a dramatic increase in hate crimes against and racial profiling of Latinos.
The ACLU’s work on racial profiling encompasses major initiatives in litigation, public education, and advocacy, including lobbying for passage of data collection and anti-profiling legislation and litigating on behalf of individuals who have been victims of racial profiling by airlines, police, and government agencies.
Profiling works well for the Israelis. Science should not be ignored. If one group is more likely to commit crimes, they should be watched more intently. Recognizing patterns is a mark of sapience.
Racial profiling is a problem, and it does cause distrust, because the police are supposed to protect. You go off the track when you talk about legalized racial segregation. I don't even know what you mean by that. As for muslims being profiled, yeah I know about that, since my husband is often taken as arab, and we are constantly profiled. Guess what? I am not offended. If I can avoid another 9/11, I'm fine with it. You can't equate the kind of profiling that goes on in black neighborhoods with that, that happens at the airport.
I am not a fan of anti immigration rhetoric, since it does breed hate. This country is a country of immigrants and was built on their backs. But the immigration issue is beyond the scope of this article.
When any demographic believes/perceives that the powers-that-be not only fail to protect them from murder and mayhem, but are a source of such phenomena … what are they to do?
Those who call for peace-over-violence, fairness and equal treatment for all … often meet with similar resistance and even death at the hands of those who figuratively and literally call the SHOTS.
• Jesus
• Lincoln
• Gandhi
• JFK
• Martin
• Bobby
• And others
It takes great courage to challenge institutionalized injustice ; and one of the outcomes of that abomination is what happens at the breaking point, the moment when victims, potential victims and those who actively call for justice have had enough.
Consider that some such "calls" are unjustified WHILE OTHERS ARE MORE THAN JUSTIFIED, LATE OR TOO LATE IN COMING.
I request that you give it some consideration.
Warsaw Ghetto Uprising - Image Results
I don't disagree Mac. Still, think of what these people did. They moved mountains.
BTW Mac, I wouldn't compare the Warsaw Uprising to what is going on with the black/ police relations. Those Jews knew they were heading to extermination camps and decided that if they were going to die, they would take some Nazi's along with them. No one is trying to exterminate blacks.
Those Jews knew they were heading to extermination camps and decided that if they were going to die, they would take some Nazi's along with them. No one is trying to exterminate blacks.
Not all at once … not by way of gas chambers … but economically, institutionally and, based on a recurring phenomenon … an unpunished phenomenon that smacks of a rigged, biased judicial system, that perception and the day-to-day fears of those who can envision themselves and family members as today's victim is "extermination" by a thousand cuts.
No, it's not the Warsaw uprising, but it is still a cry … "PLEASE DON'T KILL ME BECAUSE I'M BLACK AND AM DRIVING WITH A CRACKED TAIL LIGHT!"
And it always begins or continues or escalates with stereotyping, demagoguery, discrimination, vilification based on scapegoating AND POLITICIANS WHO PANDER TO HATRED.
Like now for instance.
Not all at once … not by way of gas chambers … but economically, institutionally and, based on a recurring phenomenon … an unpunished phenomenon that smacks of a rigged, biased judicial system, that perception and the day-to-day fears of those who can envision themselves and family members as today's victim is "extermination" by a thousand cuts.
Mac, While I agree that system is rigged (I would argue that it is rigged to everyone who is poor, no matter the color or creed), it is not an extermination. Genocide is genocide, and even slavery, no matter how evil, wasn't genocide. What happened to Indians was genocide. I think that it is important not to go to words like that, as it gives those who want to dismiss the issue, an excuse to do so. In order to move forward in solutions, we must use tempered words.
No, it's not the Warsaw uprising, but it is still a cry … "PLEASE DON'T KILL ME BECAUSE I'M BLACK AND AM DRIVING WITH A CRACKED TAIL LIGHT!"
I agree that good citizens should be able to go through life with the concept of the pursuit of happiness in the back of their minds. But we hear when things go terribly wrong. Loads of people get stopped and live to talk about it. What we need to do is train our police better and have them work closer with the communities they police. One of the best programs we had in the hood where I worked are police that did community outreach. One even saved my class guinea pig from a kidnapping. All of this lead to better relations.
Genocide is genocide, and even slavery, no matter how evil, wasn't genocide.
That's because slaves were purchased and an investment for slave owners; tragically and outrageously, today exists a mentality among some bigoted whites, that blacks as free people are no longer a possession and investments for whites … THEY DON'T MATTER consequently; hence the deep need for all of us to be reminded that BLACK LIVES (like all lives) MATTER.
Mac I would have to say that for most people, they don't look at blacks as investments or possessions. We are going to have to disagree with that. Impasse.
Mac I would have to say that for most people, they don't look at blacks as investments or possessions. We are going to have to disagree with that. Impasse.
Agreed … today blacks are not the "legal" property of slave owners … and bigoted whites deem them as somehow less-than-human and regard them as "worthless" -- as if they don't matter.
IMPASSE agreed.
Looky, two people gave thumbs down to the statement that the deaths of almost 2 million slaves on slave ships was mass murder.
And you wonder why we don't get along.
Looky, two people gave thumbs down to the statement that the deaths of almost 2 million slaves on slave ships was mass murder.
And you wonder why we don't get along.
The usuals often thumbs down statements that for them, represent an inconvenient truth.
if its alright , I would amend that perrie , they didn't move mountains , they inspired the people to get OVER those mountains to a better place.
Unfortunately the leaders of today wish to deflect and take short cuts imho , so they will never be leaders like we once had socially.
if its alright , I would amend that perrie , they didn't move mountains , they inspired the people to get OVER those mountains to a better place.
I'll accept that.
Unfortunately the leaders of today wish to deflect and take short cuts imho , so they will never be leaders like we once had socially.
That might be true, too. So what do you think is the way to change this?
I'm saw this as I was going to bed , best I can say is I'm going to have to castigate and ruminate on it for a day or two before I formulate something.
More than 240 years of slavery and 90 years of legalized racial segregation have led to systemic profiling of blacks in traffic and pedestrian stops.
The articles is from the ACLU , I assume they are talking about defacto segregation. Discrimination in housing has been illegal since the 60's, yet segregated neighborhoods still exist. Certain people are steered toward certain areas by real estate agents.
De jure segregation is separation enforced by law, while de facto segregation occurs when widespread individual preferences, sometimes backed up with private pressure, lead to separation.
I live in an upscale neighborhood and we have many black families that live here. Also where I used to work, white families are moving in, and the blacks are angry about it. Explain that to me? Economics plays the biggest part of why blacks live in certain neighborhoods. That is why gentrification has become a dirty word. But in a way, isn't that saying that whites don't mind living with blacks? This is why the issue of color is so complex.
But in a way, isn't that saying that whites don't mind living with blacks?
Maybe in toney L.I. all is good.
I guarantee you that in many parts of the country if a black family moved in next door, the next day the white family would put their house up for sale.
Not in my neighborhood, which is considered to be a "nice" neighborhood. We have a very racially diverse mixture of people in my neighborhood.
Louisville began to spread out the government housing, years ago, buying apartment buildings and placing families that are of all different races in them. I think it has helped. It is hard to hate people because of their color, if you grow up with them next door and play with them.
That being said, I still have no idea how black people fix their hair. I'd love to have dreadlocks some day... Or cornrows. It's got to be better than this Aunt Bea look I've adopted...
Dowser, if every neighborhood and street in America were racially integrated , racial strife in the country would virtually cease to exist. That is not where we are at.
We have 'areas' that have high populations of minorities-- as the people want to live around other people that speak their own language and have their own culture. An example, certain streets in a very ritzy neighborhood are all East Indians. I had to contact them for the Wellhead Protection Program. Just trying to say their names was difficult! Pangamasha Rangobamiswami. (Probably not spelled correctly-- I had to learn to say them phonetically.) Who lived next door to Depak Rangobamiswami. Who lived next door to Rashanamami Rangobamiswami. You get the picture...
But, this has been going on since the 70s-- and I think it has helped. It's hard to hate someone you live with. You get to know them as people, and they are your friends. I think it has been a good idea to mix up the incomes and mix up the races. Neighbors help each other, here, and that makes it much harder to be prejudiced.
That being said, I still have no idea how black people fix their hair.
Dowser. I'm white (I'm pretty sure anyway...mostly) and I used to wear my curls in an "afro" back in the 1970's, complete with a pick style comb stuck in it so I always knew where it was. I would today, but I have a disagreeing and disagreeable wife. (shudder)
My hair does weird curly things, too! But not quite an afro... Once, a bunch of my friends and I went to a movie, and the entire basketball team at the local college, (Kentucky Wesleyan), came and sat in the row ahead of us. I missed the movie-- between the shoulders and afros, you couldn't see a thing!
Love you, Randy!
That's a good look for you. You should go for it.
For me, I like this one better...
John,
That makes no sense. If anyone should care, is people with large real estate investments. The reason that no one leaves is it's assumed if you can afford the neighborhood, you must be a good citizen. And for the record, we have also public housing here and everyone goes to the same schools with no problems. It's that way across most of LI.
You can't generalize about the whole US. Each area has it's own dynamics.
If anyone should care, is people with large real estate investments. The reason that no one leaves is it's assumed if you can afford the neighborhood, you must be a good citizen.
I am not disagreeing with that. You are one percent, or 5 percent, whatever it is. Racial segregation is a major cause of many problems. Unemployment, poor schools, gangs. If the country were fully integrated things would be MUCH better. Racists have no interest in it, and I would include many blacks in that also.
This is a map of part of Detroit. The blue dots represent white residents. The green dots represent black residents.
Here is New York City
Funny, I am seeing a lot of mixed neighborhoods in NYC. I know about Detroit. That is an old story. It happened during the 60's and the city never recovered.
Yes they drove all the whites out of Detroit with high crime in the sixties. Before that it was a nice place to live now it's a dump. At the peak of the auto industry in Detroit they moved in and within a few years destroyed the place.
There are areas around Detroit that are very nice. Part of Detroit's problem was/is that it's too damn big for its own good. Good luck finding enough honest politicians in a metropolis that big to run an efficient machine.
here is Baltimore, again the green is black and the blue is white
John,
My kids live in Baltimore and it is changing and gentrifying. Fells Point is a perfect example of that. Also Charles Village. These things take time, but it is happening.
Gentrifying is generally resegregation.
Oh please.
With positive results.
I have to agree with you Dean.
We have 25 homes in our complex. 23 white 1 Ojibwe and 1 Black Cherokee...I'm getting all my friends and relatives to move here so we can become the majority.
Gentrification by Indian...
I think it is a wonderful idea!
It's always good to have a few indians in a hood. My family contributes to ours.
LOL kind of like my living arrangments huh Kavika?
LOL Mark or should I say Rez boy.
Seems so Mark. We just bought 4 more parcels, more Indians headed this way. ''Rez Boy''.....Ohhhhh Mark you've been found out...
LOLOLOL
On a more serious note, the video's, stories, links seem to be overwhelming the article. If required I can produce video's, stories and links that challenge each of those posted.
It was my understanding in reading the intro by Perrie, she hoped that the article went in a different direction.
The article isn't here to blame blacks/whites/Asian/Indians, or to debate semantics, it's here to try to start some dialogue, honest thoughts from members.
There are very few minorities on NT. As many of you are aware I am one of those minorities. In that light my perspective will be different than the majority on NT.
My perspective is based on my experiences, not someone else's. I'm well aware of profiling, Indian Boarding School, relocation, sundown towns any many other ''experiences'' that Indians have to deal with.
If commentators would like to actually have an open discussion regarding race relations, I'm more than willing.
Excellent comment Kavika, and well said.
Kinda what I implied in my comment but was brushed off and even lambasted.
I'm open for discussion also - as previously stated.
Thanks Kavika - good response.
1st,
What I reacted to was you telling me about what I should and shouldn't be posting. I would never have done that to you. If I missed an actual idea of how to improve things please point that out to me.
besides , this is what white boys look like living on the rez.......we go feral.....S/
You get a big thumbs up for that comment Mark!
''we go feral'' LMAO, is that a boomerang???
I'm not positive, but I believe that is a screen shot of an Australian film called "Welcome to Woop Woop", which I loved!
Mad Max randy the second one.
I stand (sit) corrected. You are right.
I'm getting all my friends and relatives to move here so we can become the majority.
What's the weather like? It's getting too hot here for an old man like me!
I think it is important all the armchair critics of police should see these two videos.
I know it won't make any difference since the agenda is to divide us. You can look into your heart and look at all your faults all you want to but until you accept most problems we have are caused by the people who want to divide us, the media and the people who are making it miserable by association, it will only get worse.
Most Problems We Have Are Caused By The People Who Want To Divide Us
Those damn commies!
Six,
No one is saying that being a cop is an easy job. They do have to make split second decisions. On the other hand, there are bad cops out there. They make the same problems for cops. Let me share this video with you.
I am not understanding your comment about people wanting to divide us. That is the opposite thing that I am personally talking about.
LMAO!
Matches the intent of this thread. These "race" related thread need to cease. THEY are derisive - and John loves the shit out of them.
Excuse me? Are you accusing me of race baiting? I am trying to have a civil discussion about how to stop this without placing blame. Your comment just did the opposite. If you want to bury your head in the sand and say that everything is hunky dory in the US, then good for you. But me, I'm a realist and only being able to discuss the issue, will cure the problem.
How about this 1st?
Taser use on 8-year-old justified, police in S.D. say - USA Today
Do you think those cops weren't racists?
Or does it only matter when it's an Indian kid?
Don't you think that we have a national problem when it comes to race relations in general... and that goes for all races.
Perrie, I remember that case. Police dispatch received a call about an 8-year-old girl attempting suicide. They were told that she had already stabbed herself in the leg, and was holding the knife to her chest. Three officers responded to the call and were let into the house by a baby sitter, and it was anybody's guess where the parents were. As one officer stepped forward, the little girl briefly turned the knife on him, and then immediately returned the tip of the blade to her chest. As the chaos and hysterics escalated, the lead officer wasn't worried about getting stabbed if he lunged for her, he felt that she would follow through on her threat. The taser immediately incapacitated her, and honestly, Perrie, I think it saved her life. I've often wondered how she is doing. It's just difficult to imagine an 8-year-old little girl even knowing what suicide is.
The call to police dispatch said nothing about the girl trying to commit suicide, it said she was trying to stab herself. The dispatcher asked the baby sitter if the girl was bleeding. The response was no she wasn't.
There were four offices and they were at the house for a grand total of 2 minutes. All of this according to the police report. When she was taken to the hospital there were NO stab wounds on her.
''God knows where her parents were''....Perhaps they were at a movie, or out to dinner, even visiting friends, you know the same things that non Indians do.
So four offices could not disarm an 8 year old that was having a tantrum and did have a paring knife, all this after two whole minutes in the house.
You have to wonder if she was 12 and had a rock, another really dangerous weapon..They might have had to use deadly force.
Using a Taser on an 8-year-old? Mom sues police, city
''God knows where her parents were''....Perhaps they were at a movie, or out to dinner, even visiting friends, you know the same things that non Indians do.
What? Indians do that stuff, too? That wasn't in my 'How To Become Fashionably NDN In a Week or Less' manual.
Kavika, I didn't pull the information in my comment out of my Granny's hand-me-down underwear drawer. Not trusting my (getting shittier by the day) memory, I verified what I remembered of the case with the link Perrie provided, and also with a synopsis of the 911 dispatch transcript and the police report.
My only concern in 2013 was, and still is now, for the little girl and what kind of horrible event would make her put a knife to her chest and threaten suicide? It certainly wasn't my intent to imply that the circumstances hinged upon cultural upbringing.
It's just difficult to imagine an 8-year-old little girl even knowing what suicide is.
I can relate...
Perrie - there is nothing in this thread about ALL races - it is about black and white - period.
Yes, there are serious race relations in America - of ALL races - and, IF we're going to have a serious discussion about the relations, don't stick to just two races.
John is infamous for spreading his hate and disdain dealing with black race relations and no guns for anybody mouthing. This thread feeds right into his fantasies. THAT is not what we need.
We need serious discussions about ethnicity disparity. The Chinese Exclusion Act of 1882 excluded the immigration of ALL Chinese - and fed into other Asian ethnicities. Yes, the Act was repealed in 1943 - 61 years later. Did that help with our relations with the Asians - hell no.
How 'bout Marijuana Prohibition was initiated as a racist law 80 years ago. Harry Anslinger stated " “There are 100,000 total marijuana smokers in the U.S., and most are Negroes, Hispanics, Filipinos and entertainers." He was the first commissioner of the Federal Bureau of Narcotics -
In 2013, Arizona passed a law prohibiting Ethnic Studies because they concentrated on the Hispanic ethnicity.
" Anti-miscegenation laws or miscegenation laws were laws that enforced racial segregation at the level of marriage and intimate relationships by criminalizing interracial marriage and sometimes also sex between members of different races . Such laws were first introduced in North America from the late seventeenth century onwards by several of the Thirteen Colonies , and subsequently by many US states and US territories and remained in force in many US states until 1967." Though repealed, there are a number of states who still refuse to allow mixed-marriages.
Let's be accurate about what we're attempting to discuss. Racism became the catch-all phrase to describe almost any situation. It is used to refer to any situation of discrimination or unfairness.
And finally (this is for you John), there is no other ethnicity/race in America that has had 236 laws written to discriminate/smash/belittle/denigrate them except for the Native American ethnicity/race. 236 LAWS .
You want to talk disparity???????? It ain't black and white.
Perrie - there is nothing in this thread about ALL races - it is about black and white - period.
I'm not speaking for Perrie but I'm pretty sure the title of her (well written) article is a euphemism for the vast spectrum of racial experiences in this country. I see it as the thread IS about ALL races.
It's fine Pat. You got it! Thanks goodness.
1st,
First of all, let's get one thing straight. I am not John. I don't speak for John. So please don't bring up John to me, as if I was some sort of puppet of his.
This article was brought to my attention by another member. They thought I could take the divisiveness out of the topic and have an actual discussion. Hence why I took the time to write an opening, and present the article.
I am indian, so of course I know about has been swept under the rug about our people. But what is ripping our country apart isn't indian relations, for good or for bad. It isn't Asian relations. It's how all races engage each other.
Let's be accurate about what we're attempting to discuss. Racism became the catch-all phrase to describe almost any situation. It is used to refer to any situation of discrimination or unfairness.
And for the record, I never once used the term racism. I did that specifically, partly because of it being a catch all term, but also since what I was talking about was how to talk to one another and NOT point fingers at each other and name call. I think you missed the whole purpose of my article or didn't read the my opening or the article. We can't change anything unless this country comes together, and in case you missed it, today a NYT/CBS poll says that 70% of Americans feel that say race relations are generally bad, one of the highest levels of discord since the 1992 riots in Los Angeles following the Rodney King case. I would say, it's time to talk to one another.
Perrie, are you letting 1st warrior intimidate you?
After reading his comment here, and your reply, I went back and read your original article, and the article about the black doctor in Dallas. Your introduction and the newspaper article about the doctor ARE about the present issue related to black lives matter and the shootings in Dallas and the killings of the black men in Minn and La. Of course anyone who wanted to could branch off of that and some people did.
16 of the 163 comments on this thread are by me. It is not like I sought to dominate this discussion or steer it, all I did was reply to the article. I am sick and tired of 1st warriors bitching. I generally seed about what is in the news. With few exceptions, I am the only person who seeds what I do. Hardly anyone seeds "liberal" content on this site, unless I am doing it. Do you want to go back through the last couple hundred seeds and see?
1st warrior can seed whatever he wants. I don't complain about what he seeds or talks about. Why the fuck doesnt he publicly complain about all the garbage that is seeded here every stinking day about Clinton and Obama and liberals and persecuted Christians and the Bible and trannys?
You wrote a good article about an issue that has dominated the headlines. This forum is supposed to address current events also isn't it? You do have the name NEWStalkers don't you?
His comments are ridiculous.
That's all I have to say.
you wrote an article that was about the killings of the black men and the shootings in Dallas. I read it very carefully. And that is certainly what the article about the doctor was about. If you want to later say it is about a wide net encompassing of all racial groups and misunderstandings or prejudice between them, that is your right. But it is not what is in the article.
If there is any question as to who forwarded this article to Perrie. I am the person that did so and for the reason that I thought that she could present it in a more moderate form, then I could.
''John is infamous for spreading his hate and disdain dealing with black race relations and no guns for anybody mouthing. This thread feeds right into his fantasies. THAT is not what we need.''
1st, as you can see it was me and had nothing to do with John.
Kavika, 1st warrior doesnt care who sent it to perrie. i am sure just about everyone would assume that no one sent it to perrie, that she found it herself.
1st just wants to complain about any article that refers to racism related to blacks
this is not the first time he has said something like this, it's not even the 10th time.
1st , I think maybe you posted the pic to the wrong article , methinks it was meant for Rev Russels latest pontification........ with that , I'm out...... that one wasn't even worth the read or comment. doubt I will comment on any more of his "Sermons".
I agree Mark - hit the wrong "thread" - if you can call John's rantings a thread.
1st, If the subject was American Indians you would be more than happy to have many articles about it.
You can't hack it in these discussions because you are lazy and when you are outside of subjects you are interested in you dont know what the hell you are talking about.
John - you really don't wanna go there - you don't have the mental wherewithal to match your comment.
"Officer Beating Unarmed Black Man While Another Officer Watches"
You can't even get a fricking meme right. The black guy is not "unarmed" , he has left arm and a right arm.
Ya' rooked us with that, 1st.
His knight has him in check - probably after he "rooked", eh?
Maybe it is human nature to be prejudiced against somebody... I was thinking about this last night, when I went to bed, before I (finally) went to sleep.
Daddy took us out west in 1974, and we visited several reservations. They were horrible places to live. Then we went to a dude ranch, where Daddy visited every fall, and lead hunting expeditions to hunt elk. He got to go free, because he was actually leading the hunt. However, we paid full price for our trip.
The ranch was on Goose Creek, in the Gros Ventre mountain range, between Jackson Hole, WY and Yellowstone. The owners seemed to be nice people, who worked hard. The wife was very white, but the husband was obviously part Indian. Besides all the rolling of eyes and nasty glances at us because we were from the East, and didn't know squat about western ways, the wife finally told us, she didn't like the way we treat our blacks.
I had no idea what she was talking about. I had never seen a "White Only" water fountain, or entrance to anything-- but in Kansas, I had seen "No Women" or "Men Only" signs on stores, restaurants, and places of business. I had never seen a black person being beaten by white people. I had never seen what they were talking about-- at all. In my hometown, we lived together in peace. I remember when they desegregated the schools, in 1960, and to me, it was like a community festival. The National Guard was there, they had vendors selling coffee and hot dogs. It wasn't tense, at all. Everyone came down to watch the black students enter, and most people cheered.
Well, I didn't like that one bit-- I had never seen what she was talking about. And, being young, and bold, I said, "Well, we don't like the way you treat your Indians." She drew back like a snake about ready to strike, and I said, "We don't have reservations, nor do we isolate people on them, nor do we talk about them the way y'all do. The "only good Indian is a dead Indian" stuff doesn't cut it with us, either." And glared at her.
She subsided-- I don't think she had ever thought of that before. It was an ingrained part of her culture. Normal, to her.
Years later, I met a fellow from Holland, and we became good friends. My head was filled with Anne Frank, and how the Dutch people sheltered them, and were good to them. So, I made a remark once about how the Danish people had done their best to protect their Jewish population. He drew back like a snake and spat the word, "The Danes", as if they were the lowest form of humanity...
I was shocked as anything. I'm thinking that maybe it is human nature to form 'packs', and have a top dog, while the rest of the pack just goes along. And the black wolf is shunned by the pack, forced to live alone, without the protection of the pack. Maybe it is something that we all must face, about someone. Maybe it is something that is just human-- but something we must evolve against.
I hope we can evolve before it is too late.
Well said Dowser!
Until residents of black neighborhoods see the value in police patrols I don't believe there will be any improvement in the perception that police are damaging to the public . If the inactions taken recently by the Chicage PD don't convince black residents then cops are going to do dereliction of duty in black neighborhoods for the forseeable futuure :
Over Memorial Day weekend, 69 people were shot, nearly one per hour, dwarfing the previous year’s tally of 53 shootings over the same period. The violence is spilling over from the city’s gang-infested South and West sides into the downtown business district; even Lake Shore Drive has seen drive-by shootings and robberies.
The growing mayhem is the result of Chicago police officers’ withdrawal from proactive enforcement, making the city a dramatic example of what I have called the “Ferguson effect.”
Petey - what is constantly being dismissed in all of these discussions is WHERE ARE THE BLACK LEADERS?????
Simple answer - there are none who are viably able to gather discussion, planning, implementation and action needed.
None who are publicly present.
Why is it that everyone is dancing around the question - WHERE ARE THE BLACK LEADERS?????
Why is it that everyone is dancing around the question - WHERE ARE THE BLACK LEADERS?????
Here are a few who are trying:
The police chief in Dallas
The police commissioner in Philly
Elijah Cummings...
There should be more. I mean when you ask for where are the leaders.. what constitutes a leader? Condi Rice? Colin Powell? Neil DeGrasse Tyson? Do these not count?
Dallas Police Chief David Brown is one of the most worth-while individuals to have ever walked this planet. He kept it together for the men and women who work for him, and he kept it together for not only the citizens of Dallas, but for the entire metroplex. He and Mayor Rawlings are proof of what working together can accomplish.
Condi Rice? Colin Powell? Neil DeGrasse Tyson?
I have always considered them to be leaders in the sense that they are role models that show what you can accomplish if you really try. That you can rise to the top of your profession or reach your goals if you are Black or another minority. I would also put becoming the first Black President in that same category. If Clinton becomes President, then it will finally show that any natural born American can become the President of the United States, regardless of race or gender. To me that represents leadership via example.
The police chief in Dallas
The police commissioner in Philly
They may be black but the black community doesn't trust them due to their affiliation with the police . Black leaders are missing from this issue . Obama is a leader the black community would listen to . Has he spoken up about this issue ?
OK...we have racial problems in this country.
We want to solve those problems.
We must ask ourselves what can all of us and that includes everyone, what can be done about it?
We can all treat everyone else the way we would like to be treated. That's a good start.
We can insist we be treated no better or worst than anyone else.
We can insist each person takes responsibility for himself, herself and all those they are responsible for such as their children.
There is nothing going to change unless we demand everyone take responsibility for his/her actions.
We can demand the court system treat each person rich or poor, black or white, Indian or Mexican, man or woman and in today's society its with equal justice.
We can demand the police be better trained and observed for racial tendencies.
We have to realize the crime is not always being committed by Blacks, Whites or any other race, but it is always being committed by criminals and the race of those criminals are not only hurting everyone else, but is hurting their race as well.
We have to show empathy toward one another.
Believe me this is very complex.
Now if we can get everyone to follow these guidelines the USA will be a happy place to live.
Personally, I think we live in a crazy world.
And I almost forgot, we have to find the solution to the equation: 5=7.
We have to realize the crime is not always being committed by Blacks, Whites or any other race, but it is always being committed by criminals and the race of those criminals are not only hurting everyone else, but is hurting their race as well.
We have to show empathy toward one another.
Believe me this is very complex.
Well-considered comment, well stated and much needed.
Bravo! Thumbs up!
One of my kind :
And I almost forgot, we have to find the solution to the equation: 5=7.
If we can figure out a way to add 2 to the 5 without subtracting from the 7, everybody would be skip-naked-down-the-street happy.
Maybe multiculturalism isn't the answer. I know it's nice to visit other cultures but I've found I prefer to live with people that share my own values. When I was young my family moved to avoid race problems and that was probably a better decision than staying and living in a hostile environment. I think the big differences in races are more cultural than genetic. Each of us will find our own way to deal the problem. For me urban multicultural living in high crime environments is not an attractive choice.
I can relate to what Mahammad Ali was taking about. He isn't claiming one race is superior to another just that cultural differences exist and can cause conflict.
Dean,
I have to say that I disagree.
Of course no one wants to live in a high crime neighborhood. But that has nothing to do with multiculturalism. Multiculturalism is being with people from around the world. One of the things I like the best about living on Long Island is that I get to experience things I never would have.
What Ali is talking about is integration and that has to do with race, as well as multiculturalism. He actually took that back later in his life.
But to each their own.
I have thought about this the past couple days , I can understand the Doctors concerns and fears , he is in a demographic that has a huge problem , hence the rise of black lives matter , but it is kind of hard to get behind this group that decrys the killing of black men by police/ LEO when the number one killer of black males between the ages of 17 to 45 (Guesstimating age range) IS BLACK MALES of the same age group.
IF they want other races to get behind the black lives matter movement , then they have to show that black lives matter to themselves so much they stop killing themselves off.
AND they have the GALL to demonize LEO orgs? the very people who, have to investigate, identify and apprehend the self same murderers of this age demographic ......(SMH) all the while trying to make it home safely to their own families?
Are some of the officer shootings or abuses racially motivated ? some could be .
Could it be from bad police work , again , some could be .
But until the black community stops killing itself off , I wouldn't and don't expect the Police or LEO orgs out there to stop using the due caution they feel nessisary( because of the problem this segment of society is doing TO ITSELF) to insure that THEY are first safe , and can end their shift and go home.
Solve the big problem first and the little problem becomes easier to get a handle on
With all due respect, I fail to see what Black on Black crime (even murder) has to do with police unnecessarily killing unarmed young Black men or Black men who are carrying weapons legally.
Randy , ( First my condolences for your dog ) this is the way I see it , you can agree , or not , Black on black crime , has a direct bearing on how any( and many) officers sees or approaches any activity , be it questioning , traffic stop , even giving assistance , because of the exiting air already there because of crimes they are aware of , the cop is going to be a little more keyed up and vigilant , cautious , In a traffic stop or a field interview , a cop will look for tells given off by the person they are talking to or have contact with, watch body language , attitude and demeanor ,. AND they have to because if they let THEIR guard down , they could possably not be going home at the end of their shift . Its not out of fear of who they come in contact with , its a layer of extra cautiousness , and cops are trained to ALWAYS remain in the dominant control position during ANY type of contact with the public .
So yes Cops will use a different approach BECAUSE of the black on black crime to insure their own safety first and that's , IMHO, is what IS at the very root of the problem with officer shootings , its the problem that leads to the problem so to say.
Mark. Thank you for the condolences. He was a great and good dog. I miss him more then words can say. I have his ashes urn in the family room, along with his favorite toy (since puppy hood) and his favorite sweater.
I can see your point that Black on Black crime would make officers more cautious in dealing with Black Americans, especially young Black ones. However I don't think solving one problem solves or helps solve the other. I think they both need individual approaches. However that is just IMHO and again I see your point.
Great comment Mark, and very spot on. The one thing missing from the equation is drugs, which is a huge problem in the black community and drives a lot of the killing that goes on. I know that some libertarians would say that if you took the profit out of it, the trade would die. It might be true. Gangs do drive an awful large amount of killings in these neighborhood. Parents are pleading for their children not to die playing. What a sad social commentary.
Mark, Randy, Perrie,
Just to add to the comments. The drug problem is huge and it covers not only blacks, but every segment of our society. Black/white/Asian/Indian/Hispanic...No group is immune from it. Nor does it seem that any part of our society is willing to admit that it is probably responsible for a huge part of the violent crimes in the U.S.
It's a supply and demand business. No demand, no supply...Simple isn't it, but I don't see anyway that the problem is going way with our current laws etc. I could go off on a long tangent over this, but it's past my bed time.
Gangs deal in drugs, it's the street way, simple quick and fast money. Lot's of money, more money than most working people will ever see in their lifetimes. The gangs will do anything to protect their turf and the money rolling in from drugs. Killing other gang members is nothing to them. It's the cost of doing business.
It's difficult for people that have not been exposed to the drug culture/gangs to understand it. The amounts of money involved is beyond belief. This income will be protected at any cost, up to and including killing. Blacks, Asians, Whites, Hispanics and Indians are all involved in it. That is a fact, no group has clean hands, so to speak.
To me it is the modern day, '' plague''....Simple as that.