Secrets and Wives, Bravo Makes An Accidental Social Commentary

I have never watched any of the Real Housewives type shows...no desire to see how the "other half" lives. It always seemed so fake...sorry to hear it's not! And, that you and your daughters had to put up with that kind of insensitive nonsense.

Very good to know they haven't rubbed off on you...or your daughters!

Thanks Uppy, and no it didn't. We actually taught them values, which wasn't easy here in this town. I really can't complain about why we moved here in the first place, which was to get my daughters into one of the best schools in the US, but I had no idea of the social aspect.

I have never watched any of the Real Housewives type shows

Well, you must be one of the few. Bravo has changed almost all of it's programing to this, so it must be that lots of people do! Money talks!

The very fact that vapid people are offered as celebrities, and accepted as such, is a condemnation of our degraded popular culture. And, it will get worse before it gets better.

I have to agree with you, John. It seems that people seem to enjoy watching affluent people. The only explanation that I can think of, is either they view them as jokes, or are wanna bes.

I think it's a form of escape to live a vicarious life - an escape from the suffering of reality.

Maybe Buzz. IDK?

You KNOW I suiffer from acronym-deprivation. I would have assumed that IDK means I don't know, but then it would be a statement rather than a question.

This is likely of no comfort to you, but one could go just about every place and find legions of this kind of women. Legions.

We certainly have this "social butterfly" beast here-- and it is pervasive. The movie, The Age of Innocencedepicted the social mores of a different time, but was spot on with the indefinable something that bespeaks "class". Back then, class was equated with money, certain adherence to standards of behavior, and the indefinable language of status. Back then, you had to have money, to have the ability to know which fork to use, what color dress your livery in, etc.

These days, money doesn't mean class. At all. Money allows one the ability to bully others-- denigrate others-- there is no distinction between poor behavior and moral behavior, etc. It's the sociopathic viewpoint of if I have enough money, I can do anything I please, and other people don't matter.

That does not say that all people with money have no class. Many of them do. Maybe it's just that there is a certain subset of sociopathic behavior that seems to exist within the moneyed group that are displayed on these reality shows.

TV seems to pick out the lowest common denominator, these days, and showcase it. Of course, people with true class don't publicly display their problems, they just deal with them.

I can only imagine how disappointed you are that your home town is depicted in such a manner-- I would feel the same. There are plenty of women here that would fit this bill-- leaving us with our own little "reality show", with horses, etc. Many of the horse crowd are truly classy ladies. But there are also many out there that are hopelessly nouveau, and have no idea that true class comes from one's behavior, not money.

I can only imagine how disappointed you are that your home town is depicted in such a manner-- I would feel the same. There are plenty of women here that would fit this bill-- leaving us with our own little "reality show", with horses, etc. Many of the horse crowd are truly classy ladies. But there are also many out there that are hopelessly nouveau, and have no idea that true class comes from one's behavior, not money.

In the "old days" there was often a distinction made between people who came from "Old Money"-- and the "Noveau Riche" (supposedly the "old Money" were "well breed" and had "good taste", whereas the noveaux rich had poor taste. Even with money, the art and other possessions they aquired were in bad taste, not sophisticated (the modern term for that may be "tacky"...even "sleazy").

Of course there are individuals from all segments of society who have a strong focus on trying to impress other people-- and there are also those that don't.

And of course in all levels of society, from inner city slums and the poorest parts of Appalachia to the wealthiest areas, there are snobs....and plain down to earth folks even amongst the uber-wealthy. .

And what's considered a status symbol varies from place to place, and changes over time.

Personally, most of the people who impress me the most are...people who aren't trying to impress me! And people who are gnuine..who aren't "puttjing on airs".

A while back I discovered a fascinating book: "How to Meet the Rich for Business, Friendship or Romance" by Ginnie Sayles. (its supposed to be her best book, covers most of all f what in her others-- its the one with the yellow cover ) Its a practical guide, but it like a Sociology book Only not not pedantic-- its down to earth and practical. 

She feels there are 6 different types of wealthy people: "Old Money Pedigrees", "Flamboyant Old Money", "Status New Rich", "Practical New Rich", "the Celebrity Rich" and "Roller Coaster Rich".

The first are like what I've always thought of as "old Money"-- those with "good breeding" and conservative good taste. Not showy or flamboyant. (She lists many characteristics of each type-- this type hs people who deliberately try to avoid buying clothing that show labels from a status brand-- they may even cut those labels off. They may drive a modest (but practical) car, etc.

"Status New Rich" are what I've though of as "Noveaux Rich" people with little breeding, poor taste--yet snobby. showing off their money..often just very crude!  (They are definitely beneath me..sniff, sniff!

Dear Krish-- here in Louisville, I once lived two blocks from the Old Riche, and one block from the Nouveau Riche.  I was in the No Riche At All part of the neighborhood.  Suited me fine, I just wanted to live my life and be left alone...  

There were a lot of musicians in that neighborhood, so one could always hear the opera star next door, or the horn player or the trumpet player or the concert pianist practicing.  It was LOADS of fun, and I liked my neighbors.  There was a university professor across the street, and two or three professors down the street.  A very eclectic neighborhood, and I felt right at home there...  The other side of our house was occupied by The Lung Sisters, whose last name was Lung.  Both of them were hard of hearing and in poor health, and screamed at each other all day and night-- we could hear their TV in our den...  But they were really nice ladies, and I enjoyed them!

Yes it does, Buzz.

You would do terrible in the military where everything is anacronym.

SNAFU, FUBAR, etc. LOL!

Just messing with you! Kisses!

KWH

Kisses with Hugs?

You said military, so....

NWM,

Oddly enough, when I was writing this article, I realized that the members here would have no understanding of this, since they are interested in things far deeper than these women are (and for that matter, the men who marry them... who are no better). Kind of the irony of it all.

Still, I felt that the topic was timely and since Bravo has given up on any real substance, I thought it appropo to review a show that I actually knew something about. I had always thought that the "Real Housewives" series might have been a bit over the top, but after watching this show, I think they have it spot on.

Dowser,

You are correct that there are many places where you can find such women. Roslyn is not alone in this.

Back then, class was equated with money, certain adherence to standards of behavior, and the indefinable language of status

These days, money doesn't mean class. At all. Money allows one the ability to bully others-- denigrate others-- there is no distinction between poor behavior and moral behavior, etc. It's the sociopathic viewpoint ofif I have enough money, I can do anything I please, and other people don't matter.

An interesting point. It is true that when someone was "old money" they understood duty as well as class. But on the other hand, they did look down on the "nouveau riche" and I think they did because they viewed nouveau riche as being tacky and classless. For the most part, despite the fact that these women claim to have grown up here, they derived from nouveau riche, and as I said in the article, these values are passed down to their children. Entitlement is the theme in their lives.

TV seems to pick out the lowest common denominator, these days, and showcase it. Of course, people with true class don't publicly display their problems, they just deal with them.

I have to say, that I have a hard time figuring out why these women want to put their personal life on display. The only thing that I can think of is maybe their 15 min of fame, or to turn themselves into a brand. Look at the Kardasians. What have they done in their lives, other than having money, that makes them into anything? People watch.. I am not sure why.

I can only imagine how disappointed you are that your home town is depicted in such a manner-- I would feel the same. There are plenty of women here that would fit this bill-- leaving us with our own little "reality show", with horses, etc. Many of the horse crowd are truly classy ladies. But there are also many out there that are hopelessly nouveau, and have no idea that true class comes from one's behavior, not money.

I knew you would get it, coming fromKentucky. Actually, most of the old money here, are the ones who ownhorses. This weekend before the Belmont, there is a big party in the town where most of them live, Garden City. I have to say, it didn't look from anappearancePOV (as in what they were wearing orcarrying), much different than Roslyn... but it did have a more classy look in the way they pulled it off.

Ambie,

I have to say that you make a good point about plastic being a big part of our lives in so many ways. We use it, put it into our bodies, and act like it. In a way, plastic sums it all up.. which brings me to a movie that kind of was making that point.

In "The Graduate", Ben is stopped to ask what he wants to do with his future. He has no clue. The advice he was given was to go into "Plastics". That is where the future laid. And while Ben tried to fight this off throughout the movie... one is unsure if he succeeded in the end. I guess that is where we are now. Prophetic, no?

Feronia,

Until I was clued into this show, since it was about my town, I have to say, you pretty summed up my view of life. I too, can't imagine having my personal life on display. This is the one aspect that I just don't get. Being exposed to these types of women I do get, but don't care for. And again, I am not shocked by your response. People who participate on a news and politics site, are interested in things that are not shallow. They have real interests, and use this as an adjunct to their knowledge base and entertainment. Their taste is a far more sophisticated than just gossip and possessions.

In a weird sort of way, these kind of shows validate a shallowness that I can't relate to. Nor do I want to.

I totally get you. What I don't get is who is watching this?

Raven,

I have lived down south for a while, and I did see how some of your monied people live. I had always the impression that there was a difference between the old money and the new. But from what you are saying, I guess I was wrong. How sorry I feel for you.

To know that this kind of lifestyle actually exists is bad enough, but, for women to actually find that such a put down of themselves and every other real housewife in America as beingentertainingis beyond belief.

This is beyond me, too! I just don't get it.

I have had some women who watch the program say it is all just pretend, but, it is obvious that they have not been exposed to these kind of real-life women in their own neighborhoods or to themselves and their own children, or they might not find such treatment soentertaining.

I have had people say that to me, too. That it was just scripted. But it's not. Don't get me wrong, I am sure that Bravo goes out to look for a gaggle of these types to put on TV, but I know that they are very easy to find here. And you are right, if you had to live among this, you wouldn't find it so entertaining. I know that I don't.

John,

Thanks for checking out the show. At least you have a baseline for what i am talking about.

I was also struck by the seemingly superficial similarity between hedge fund managers wives and mafia wives (at least as they are portrayed on these type of programs, lol)

Well, in all fairness, only one of the hubbies was a hedge fund manager and the other woman wasn't really married to the mob... they just described her that way, to emphasise that she didn't have any class like they did, since she was from the south shore. I found that bit ironic, LOL!

I've never see any of these shows. Ignorance is bliss seems to work for me, on this level.

Blonde bimbo's talking about everyone else, yet they have absolutely no idea of what a joke they are.

I would guess that their motto is, ''I'm not cheap, but I can be had''....

Well, back to watching, ''Brunette Wives of the Rez''...

P.S. brunette's and redheads rate very high on my watchability list.

I think I watched about 10 minutes of the show quite a while ago.......I'm alwaysamazed at how shallow people can be,( even though I see it quite often.) .....ICK!!

(p.s. Kav....I'm blond, but I'm not a Bimbo )

ndeNo Italian/Indian can be blo

When your people come from Northern Italy, and get a little help from chemicals it's possible!!! ha ha ...got ya!!

Beautiful Italian/American Indian lady from Milano (northern Italy)

KAV!! How did you get my picture?????

Yes, they did look down their nose at the nouveau riche-- but, as long as the ladies behaved themselves, they were welcomed in. They had to "prove themselves" by good behavior, but they were welcomed. This new bunch is just trash, pure and simple. Tacky.

Something else I get-- I was mainly reared by my grandmother, in any important way. When Grandma was born, Victoria was still queen. Grandma was the granddaughter of Sophronia-- a lady who worked. Sophronia carded the wool, spun the thread, and wove the cloth to make all of her husband's suits. She didn't lie around, eating bonbons. She managed her household, cooked and fed her family, made their clothes, and still had the gumption to design and execute an award-winning quilt. Each of her daughters cried for her loving comfort when they lay dying.

Sophronia knew about privilege, duty, and hard work. She paid for everything she got, and more, because she was married to a mean man. The one thing, I think, that separates true ladies, from the ilk depicted on reality shows, is compassion. Ladies have compassion. These reality show goddesses have little or no compassion-- it's all about them. Dennis the Menace said it best, "Class is knowing you're somebody without acting like you're somebody."

Many of the old money own horses here, too-- and rub elbows with the Queen when she comes to stay... But, they are ladies in the truest sense of the word-- they're not out for fame and fortune, they do things for others, and I've never heard them snigger about anyone. These true ladies contribute to society-- they don't take away from society.

I think what bothers me is that the "real housewives" are our new heroines. Our heroines should be real housewives that stay up with their kids when they're sick, help their husband as a partner, work inside or outside the home, and contribute something to the good of society.

Maybe I'm too old, or something.

I can't understand how any real-life housewife could find such a horribly untrue depiction of themselves entertaining .

VERY true, RW!

LOL, I have my ways Nona...

RW, I had a father who drank, (gasp in horror), and a mother who was a climber, and then I had my darling little Grandma, who just was. I know exactly what you mean.

My son had a dearth of playmates, simply because I was a geologist and professional and at least 10 years older than any of the other parents, sometimes 20 years older than the others. While all the other kids were playing with Power Rangers, my son was playing with small models of the Egyptian Gods and Roman Soldiers. While all the other kids were interested in TV, my son was teaching himself Chinese.

It is hard to relate to these younger ladies, even though many of them are truly good people, just because I've been there, done that, and bought the T shirt. No one wants to share my recipes because they are meat and potato type of recipes-- they don't have gourmet ingredients. No one ever asks me where I shop, because I shop a lot at Cracker Barrel, and like their stuff, and my T-shirts cost $5 at Wally World. The only time anyone likes my shoes is when I go to the girl's department, (the only place I can find them, now), and stick with stuff without Hello Kitty on them.

Frankly, I'm not dumbing myself down for them, nor being what I'm not, just for them. I can't help it. I am what I am, and I'm nice to everyone, sympathetic to everyone, and view some of the silliness with a jaundiced eye. I do my best to be friendly to them, helpful, supportive, and kind. In other words, if they're looking for someone who is of the country club set-- don't look at me. I was in the field for 20 years, eating ants, if they got in my food, and not worrying about it. I spent the first 20 years of my career, covered in mud, and loving every moment of it.

That being said, I can still pour tea with the best of them, and still wear my odd jewelry and feel grateful to have it. This shallowness is NOT for me, for sure! Maybe my son's friend's mothers were a little afraid of me...

Me too, either by genes and then by Youth Through Chemistry, and now I'm gray... Does gray count?

I'm not a Bimbo, either, I hope.

gggrrrr.....

Dowser...you couldn't be a bimbo if you tried!!

Ladies, none of you are bimbo's...I was referring to the women in this TV series.

...I was referring to the women in this TV series. We knew that!

Just had to mess with you Kav!!

I know, Kavika. There are those here that treat pretty much all women as if we are bimbos-- never you!

Never, ever mess with an Ojibwe....LOLOLOLOL

Especially this one, he looks serious!!

All right you guys I'm coming out as a RHW viewer. Why ? Probably part of it is the "train wreck" aspect, a lot of these women (not all) are train wrecks and have a similar fascination for me. The other part is that these shows make it very clear that money doesn't buy love or happiness. I know this to be true but it's nice to be reminded sometimes.

"What really scares me as a society? the fact that many think such as shown on TV is normal acceptable female behavior." That is just as sickening as some of the vapid crap the males display. Pretty much the issue here.

The Queen understood duty. Her children not so much. Which goes to show, when people have no real sense of purpose, duty goes out the door.

What we have here are a pile of woman with no real sense of duty. Their only responsibility are to their children and often, they relive their glory days through them. Their children end up needing mommy and daddy ... they have never been taught to be responsible, no sense of duty.

You are not getting old, but you are old enough to remember another time when these traits were valued.

I really can't say RW. I can only talk about what I know... from here and England. It seems that women who define themselves by their husbands are doomed to be left in their shadow. This is touched on, in the show... but the way they handle it, well that is a big off the wall.

Well, I can't disagree BF accept that these women will not end up in trailer parks. They will sooner end up with an older sugar daddy, or living back with mom and dad.

Thanks John.

P.S. brunette's and redheads rate very high on my watchability list.

Gee, that's music to my ears!

Now that is beautiful!

I'm not a Bimbo, either, I hope.

Never Dowser! You are way to smart to be!

Exceedingly serious!

The other part is that these shows make it very clear that money doesn't buy love or happiness. I know this to be true but it's nice to be reminded sometimes.

So true Pat. It is an important reminder when we all have our own little pity parties (out of public view naturally).

Today, I haven't felt smart enough to be a Bimbo. I think that today, I've been a Bimbette.

You are very sweet, but I think they looked at me as if I had two heads, most of the time... Oh well!

Can you go to my husband's place of work and straighten a few people out?

Pat, you're one smart lady!

uh oh! Dowser.....what's been going on with the meeting? Has john gotten an answer yet?

RW I agree....They probably felt intimidated by Dowser's class and intelligence.

Nona, he did not get the job-- we learned today. They were so rude to him, he left work and came home. It's not been a good day, poor man!

Dowser......Oh no!! What idiots these people are! I agree... poor John. Please give him a hug for me.

I will tell him, dear Nona. He is very discouraged, right now.

He works so hard, 12-14 hours a day... They were nasty to him, and it really hurt him. SIGH! A pox on this VP who behaved this way!

Wow Perrie, I have never watched any of those Real Housewives, the only reality show I watch is Dancing with the Stars, just because I like dancing and the music and recently Wife Swap, which I find hilarious, I can just imagine having those kinds of women as neighbors must be just exhausting all the fakes..I think its good you and your daughters have kept a distance from people who are not bringing anything of value, you have made it fine thus far and that's good..

Ditto!

CM,

At this point, they don't worry me anymore. My daughters are in college and I live in one of the few spots in Roslyn that doesn't even show up on a map.

What I find troubling is what does this all mean, in context of our society. Obviously, the show and shows like it, are big hits... and that is the troubling thing. I just don't get it.

It seems that people seem to enjoy watching affluent people. The only explanation that I can think of, is either they view them as jokes, or are wanna bes.

And there are other tacky shows as well. What about "Keeping Up With the Kardashians"? People really love that stuff.

or shows like "Married to the Mob", "Vanderpump Rules"-- or what about "Jersey Shore"? (Now defunct?)

I was discussing this with a friend-- she said its all fiction-- there are no people like that in the "real world".

Nope. Those people are very, very real. (And they reproduce...!)

the show and shows like it, are big hits... and that is the troubling thing. I just don't get it.

Big hits to people who are shallow, we have much more to think about..

What really scares me as a society? the fact that many think such as shown on TV is normal acceptable female behavior.

That is just as sickening as some of the vapid crap the males display.

Well, maybe a lot of people who regularly watch those shows believe that. But there are people who don't watch them.

These days, money doesn't mean class. At all. Money allows one the ability to bully others-- denigrate others-- there is no distinction between poor behavior and moral behavior, etc. It's the sociopathic viewpoint of if I have enough money, I can do anything I please, and other people don't matter.

Definitely true.

However, I also think that attitude ("I can do anything I please, and other people don't matter") is also becoming more common amongst people who don't have a lot of money-- particularly amongst many millennials.

An interesting point. It is true that when someone was "old money" they understood duty as well as class. But on the other hand, they did look down on the "nouveau riche" and I think they did because they viewed nouveau riche as being tacky and classless.

Part of the problem with many discussions is that people often tend to generalize-- for example, believing the wealthy are all the same. They are not.
One distinction that is often made is between people who are "old money" and the "noveau riche".

A while back I discovered a fascinating book: "How to Meet the Rich-- for business, Friendship, or Romance". Its one of the better sociology books I've read. (I believe the author married a wealthy Texas oilman)>
She differentiates between more than just the "Old money" and the "noveau riche". She lists what she feels are several types of wealthy people:
1. Old Money Pedigrees
2. Flamboyant Old Money
3. Status new Rich
4. Practical New Rich
5. The Celebrity new Rich
6. Roller Coaster Rich.

I think she's really got it down accurately-- a lot of what she says describes types of wealthy people I've known. (I totally identify with the "Old Money pedigrees"-- good breeding, excellent values, etc. That description fits me to a T. In fact the only personality trait I lack that this group has is lots of money!

Exactly how I feel! It was beyond the pale, to me.

I've worked for one of the largest engineering firms in the country, and they never ever treated me with anything less than professional courtesy. I hope this guy loses his job over it. He should! (Not likely to happen, I must admit.)

(And they reproduce...!) That's the sad and scary part!

Is it possible that Hillary has the key to governing such citizens as these ?

I don't watch much TV anymore. Sometimes I'll watch The History or Science Channel. I've never seen "Real Housewives" but considering my persuasion, all those women look hot...for a one nighter.

all those women look hot...for a one nighter.

How can you tell without talking to them ?

Aeon.

I watch all kinds of TV but not reality shows. Sadly, the only one I have watched is about my town, and I would say it was no recommendation to move here.

You should have seen his original comment !

I'm a hedonist.

The important thing is to not take any of this shit seriously !

So ... it takes one to know one then ?