Must You Admire the President in Order to Acknowledge His Successes?

jonathan-p
By:  @jonathan-p, 3 months ago
Comments: 72 ..

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DISCLAIMER:

I DID NOT VOTE FOR DONALD TRUMP

 

A new Wall Street Journal poll indicates that many Americans disapprove of President Trump, but are open to his agenda. When asked to judge his policies, most said they didn't like him personally. But, when asked to put aside their feelings, a much larger number approved of most of his policies. The poll also indicated that the public may be sympathetic to his attacks on the media. The same sample showed a rise in the number of people that feel the country is headed in the right direction.

So, what are we supposed to make of this conflicting information? Perhaps it's not conflicting along lines of logic, but along party lines. If you're a Democrat, you don't like Trump, period. There is nothing anyone can say or do to make you change your mind. Some might reconsider if he showed up at your doorstep and handed you a briefcase full of hundreds, but other than that, you're not changing your mind. Case closed. If you're a Republican, the situation is still not completely clear. Yes, he ran on the GOP ticket, but a number of his directives are at odds with the party. That, in and of itself, is usually not enough to oppose a President. This leads me to believe that, because he is not likable, it is not believed by most that he is a suitable and successful President. 

So then, I ask you. Must you admire him in order to acknowledge his successes? 

I was listening to CNBC a couple of weeks ago, to an interview with Tom Friedman. I don't agree with most of the things Tom Friedman says, but nonetheless, I listened. I'm paraphrasing here, but he said that not everything that comes from Trump's mouth is a lie, and that his statements need to be examined in a balanced manner. Tom Friedman, folks. Balanced manner. 

The biggest complaint i get from people that I know who don't spew at me say that he's not "presidential". I get that. He doesn't wait to go behind closed doors to take it out on his staff, the way other Presidents have done in the past. He's called an egomaniac. A narcissist. Spare me, would you? Like our previous 2 Democratic POTUSES weren't? That's not a good enough excuse. 

Today, Tom Perez was elected to chair the DNC. Their major policy plank is to oppose the President. Stupidity notwithstanding, this is the clear message of politics in America. We continue to harden along party lines. If we are a D, we won't say anything positive about an R, and visa versa. 

Bottom line:

1)Things are far better than they seem

2)We are not going to war with any countries

3)We are not going to engage in trade wars

4)Melania is not afraid of her husband

5)There is no real and present danger to democracy

6)Russia did what was good for Russia

So that's it.

Carry on.

I know you will.

Here's the link, but if you're not a subscriber to the WSJ, you won't be able to read it:

https://www.wsj.com/articles/many-americans-disapprove-of-trump-but-are-open-to-his-agenda-poll-finds-1488117602

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Jonathan P
link 02/26/17 09:47:32PM @jonathan-p:

Trump is a firebrand in every sense of the word. We have always looked at our Presidents in the totality of their accomplishments. With Trump, we are adding new categories that have little to do with the actual duties of the President. It is too soon to judge him on his policies, so for now, he is being judged like a contestant in a beauty pageant. 

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JohnRussell
link 02/26/17 10:00:25PM @johnrussell:

There are so many things wrong with the picture "Trump Is President" , we could spend the rest of his four years talking of nothing else. 

How many other of our presidents paid 25 million dollars to settle a FRAUD case, a personal fraud case against them, while they were the president-elect waiting to take office?   I am hearing none.  Donald Trump made a promotional video for Trump U. in which he says he hand picked and personally selected the instructors. Turns out that not only did he not "hand pick" the instructors, he had never even met most of them, or even heard of them. He was simply looking into a camera and lying, much as he does just about every day. 

Trump is not qualified to be president, and if he is it means we have absolutely no standards for character, knowledge , or honesty that we require of our presidents. 

 

6)Russia did what was good for Russia

 

is absurd. Who cares if what Russia did was good for Russia? They interfered with our national election, in favor of one candidate, who cheered them on, publicly calling for them to reveal more hacked information about his opponent. The moral and ethical depravity of Donald Trump at that moment was staggering.

 

There is no way to rehabilitate Donald Trump and make him an acceptable president. 

 

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Randy
link 02/26/17 11:07:32PM @randy:

I agree completely John. There is no why to rehabilitate him and make him an acceptable President. His dealings with Russia, complete lack of character and honesty disqualify him completely. He seems pathologically unable to tell the truth even when the truth is easily shown, such as his claim the other day at CPAC that there was a 6 block long line outside waiting to get in, when all reporters had to do was look and see that the street was nearly deserted. He made up the lie out of whole cloth. It's like lying, even when he knows the truth, is his default position and what he prefers to do. Like when given a choice between telling the known truth or a lie, he'd rather tell a lie. He tells lies that are unnecessary to tell. That serve no purpose except to expose him as more of a liar.

It's impossible to admire someone like him and an embarrassment to have him sitting in the Oval Office playing at being President.

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The_Jewel
link 02/28/17 07:21:21PM @the-jewel:

There are NO DEALINGS with Russia.  That just makes everything you say clownish.

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A. Macarthur
link 02/28/17 07:26:22PM @a-macarthur:

There are NO DEALINGS with Russia.  That just makes everything you say clownish.

Oh! Well! That settles it.

Thanks for clearing it up.

Oh … where's Jimmy Hoffa …

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Jonathan P
link 02/27/17 10:38:30AM @jonathan-p:

There are so many things wrong with the picture "Trump Is President" , we could spend the rest of his four years talking of nothing else. 

And it would surprise you how large a percentage of the country is really not interested in that sort of narrative at this point. They're more concerned with focusing on the job he's doing.

How many other of our presidents paid 25 million dollars to settle a FRAUD case, a personal fraud case against them, while they were the president-elect waiting to take office?   I am hearing none.  Donald Trump made a promotional video for Trump U. in which he says he hand picked and personally selected the instructors. Turns out that not only did he not "hand pick" the instructors, he had never even met most of them, or even heard of them. He was simply looking into a camera and lying, much as he does just about every day. 

How many other of our Presidents were businessmen? This is what happens in the business world, and it happens every day. He had a business venture, and it failed. His intention was for it to succeed, but oftentimes, it does not end up that way. Your contention and tone indicate that there is not a single dollar that he has that did not come to him in some kind of fraudulent manner. That attitude is on you, and prevents you from moving forward.

Trump is not qualified to be president, and if he is it means we have absolutely no standards for character, knowledge , or honesty that we require of our presidents. 

Character? Does he have to stand up straight and smile at the right time? What standards are there for not dicking an intern in the oval office, or telling the Russian President that you'll take care of him after the election? Is there a President that has a monopoly on character?

Knowledge? Do you have any understanding of how the Cabinet functions? Are you aware that President Obama was knowledgeable in about the same number of categories that President Trump is? Do you understand how the Executive Branch works? I think not.

Honesty? Not even going there, John. Later. Much, much later.

You are incapable of separating your personal contempt and hardened partisan position from the reality of his policies, much as the survey indicates.

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JohnRussell
link 02/27/17 10:43:28AM @johnrussell:

Donald Trump defrauded the people who paid thousands of dollars to his "university" thinking it was a Donald Trump production. Were they naive? Maybe. He's still a crook. 

Look, the list of things Trump has said or done that should have disqualified him from consideration for president is a mile long. It is a forever stain on our country that this man is president. It is a blight on our national character. It is not a minor or forgettable thing. 

Deal with it. 

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Jonathan P
link 02/27/17 10:58:15AM @jonathan-p:

John,

I've dealt with it already. I'm moving forward, because for better or worse, he is the President. It's apparent that you have not been able to deal with it, as indicated by your content.

I never said any other President was "not my President", because the fact is, they all were. And now, Trump is my President.

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JohnRussell
link 02/27/17 11:02:07AM @johnrussell:

Moved forward?

This man lies every day, NOW. 

He hasn't put his past behind him, he is embarrassing our country on an hourly basis. 

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Jonathan P
link 02/27/17 11:18:18AM @jonathan-p:

And it is my contention that they all lie, constantly, while in office. The fact that he does it with far less style than others is little more than a distraction to you, but not him, in the execution of his official duties.

Deal with it.

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sixpick
link 02/28/17 12:42:45AM @sixpick:

You provided a very civil and intelligent debate Jonathan.

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DF
link 02/28/17 10:12:03AM @df:

I agree, Jonathan, dealing with the uninformed who use only emotions to guide them is a had row to hoe. But you do it with style.  Good show.

 

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Jonathan P
link 02/28/17 10:33:03AM @jonathan-p:

For those that hate him, there is this current of thought that those that don't also hate him are supporters of him, no matter what. Having refrained from voting for him, I find it easier to look at what's going on from 30,000 feet, without having to put my money on the table. There is talk of corruption, which may or may not be true. There is precedent for this, and those people continued to serve.

There are 2 attributes for which there is no precedent in the last century+. One is his boorish manner of communication. Although I like his direct approach, I would prefer if he parsed with a little bit more panache. He's not smooth. It's a little embarrassing sometimes. The other is his business background, and great wealth that comes with it. It's important that we become less sensitive to this, because I believe that there will be more such candidates, and I believe they will come from both parties and I believe they will be elected. And I am absolutely sure that, if they are billionaires, there will be questionable actions on the part of all of them which should not preclude them from taking office. You just have to look past it, and see it in its totality. There is going to be something to all of these people. When Mark Cuban runs as a Democrat, do you think he's going to get the shit that Trump is getting for his shady business dealings? Of course not. He's well spoken, and not combative, and a Democrat. That will  be okay with everyone.

I'm going to take the good with the bad, because I always have to take the good with the bad.

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A. Macarthur
link 02/28/17 10:48:44AM @a-macarthur:

When Mark Cuban runs as a Democrat, do you think he's going to get the shit that Trump is getting for his shady business dealings? Of course not. He's well spoken, and not combative, and a Democrat. That will  be okay with everyone.

You decide what will be "okay with everyone" and attribute the "everyone" to Democrats with the implication that Democrats are subjective (but Republicans are objective) … really.

Trump's shady business dealings are well-documented; if when Cuban (et al) run for office, any documented "shady dealings" should be revealed.

I'm going to take the good with the bad, because I always have to take the good with the bad.

"Taking" the good with the bad is a sensible personal philosophy. Taking the "bad" in government without questioning and resisting is not in the best interest of those living under the rule of that government.

Still, I gave your comment a thumbs up for its thoughtful analysis.

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The_Jewel
link 02/28/17 07:23:17PM @the-jewel:

Bottom line is doesn't make a fucking bit of difference if he lies if his actions support his motives.

What sort of fucking idiot would believe a politician anyway.  What they do is all that matters at the end of the day.

 

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Randy
link 02/28/17 08:28:19PM @randy:

I've dealt with it already. I'm moving forward, because for better or worse, he is not the President. It's apparent that you have been able to deal with it, as indicated by your content.

I never said any other President was "not my President", because the fact is, they all were. But now, Trump is not my President.

There Johnathan-p. Fixed it for you.

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96WS6
link 02/28/17 02:00:54AM @96ws6:

"How many other of our presidents paid 25 million dollars to settle a FRAUD case, a personal fraud case against them, while they were the president-elect waiting to take office? "

 

Gee I don't know.   How many other candidates sold a public office to the highest bidder?

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A. Macarthur
link 02/28/17 10:49:51AM @a-macarthur:

How many other candidates sold a public office to the highest bidder?

Please be specific … who, what, when, how.

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Sean Treacy
link 02/26/17 10:37:31PM @s:

His overactive mouth and the hysteria it's generated, he's been fine on substance. The gorsuch appointment alone justifies his election.

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JohnRussell
link 02/26/17 10:41:01PM @johnrussell:

His overactive mouth and the hysteria it's generated, he's been fine on substance.

Huh?

The amount of people making rationalizations justifying this travesty grows more disturbingly large by the day. Fortunately so does the opposition and resistance. 

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Dean Moriarty
link 02/27/17 10:42:39AM @dean-moriarty:

What's the problem things are going well? Don't buy into the liberal medias chicken little sky is falling lies. 

They claimed the same thing about sequestration and that worked fine. There was no collapse and return to recession as the lying media claimed. 

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Sean Treacy
link 02/27/17 10:57:38AM @s:

The hysteria over sequestration was something. Although the freak out over tweets seems to have somehow surpassed it. 

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XXJefferson#51
link 02/27/17 08:08:45PM @xxjefferson51:

No, admiring him as a person is not a requirement for recognizing a success or accomplishment of Trump or anyone else.  

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A. Macarthur
link 02/27/17 09:33:27PM @a-macarthur:

Two words that might constitute the proverbial "dot" that will connect other dots leading to realities about Trump's "successes" and how Russia enabled a number of them.

Wilbur Ross.

For now, that's all I will post on this … but remember those two words as the dots come together.

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Cerenkov
link 02/27/17 10:37:43PM @cerenkov:

thumbs down

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Randy
link 02/27/17 10:39:40PM @randy:

Wilbur Ross.

Definitely a connecting dot....

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96WS6
link 02/28/17 02:06:06AM @96ws6:

You know Johnathan,

It is quite telling that you must put "DICLAIMER:  I DID NOT VOET FOR DONALD TRUMP" on your article in order for many to even read the full article isn't it?   Think about it.

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A. Macarthur
link 02/28/17 09:13:36AM @a-macarthur:

 


It is quite telling that you must put "DICLAIMER:  I DID NOT VOET FOR DONALD TRUMP" on your article in order for many to even read the full article isn't it?   Think about it.

Got that wrong, 96; the statement is the opposite of "Damining with feint praise," rather, it's giving praise despite what calls for damnation.

Trump made his money by taking advantage of laws that enabled him to stiff workers and investors. Honest business people borrow money and hire contractors and workers with the intent of honoring their commitments … TRUMP … the opposite.

As for the article itself … shame for praising a con man like Trump.

Think about it, Jonathan.


Jewish law has plenty to say about conducting business: accurate weights and measures, overcharging, verbal deception, false packaging and much more.


By 





Abbreviated from Insight Israel 3:1 (October 2002), published by The Schechter Institute of Jewish Studies in Jerusalem. Some bibliographic references that have been eliminated here, and a bibliography on Jewish business ethics, can be found in the original version of this article, available on-line. The opinions expressed here are the author’s own and in no way reflect an official policy of the Schechter Institute.

Ona’at Mamon (Monetary Deception)


This concept is based on a verse in Leviticus (25:14): “When you sell anything to your neighbor or buy anything from your neighbor, you shall not deceive one another.”This verse clearly refers to monetary deception. The rabbis of the Talmud used it as a basis for a series of specific laws on the subject (B.T. Bava Metzia 49b and 50b; Maimonides, Mishneh Torah,Laws of Sales, Chapter 12). They ruled that if the price charged was more than one sixth above the accepted price, the sale is null and void and the seller must return the buyer’s money. If it was exactly one sixth more, the transaction is valid, but the seller must return the amount overcharged. If it was less than a sixth, the transaction is valid and no money need be returned. Needless to say, these laws are still very relevant today. It is permissible for a Jew to make a fair profit; it is not permissible to price gouge and rob the customer blind. Such behavior is ona’at mamon, or monetary deception.

Ona’at Devarim (Verbal Deception)


This category is related to the second, and it is based on another verse in the same chapter ofLeviticus (25:17): “Do not deceive one another, but fear your God, for I the Lord am your God.” Since the other verse had explicitly mentioned monetary deception, the rabbis concluded that this verse refers to verbal deception. And thus we learn in the Mishnah (Bava Metzia 4:10): “Just as there is deception in buying and selling, there is deception in words. A person should not say to a merchant: ‘How much does this cost?’ if he has no intention of buying it”.

But why not? What’s wrong with comparison shopping? Nothing! But in this case he is not asking in order to compare prices. He is asking out of idle curiosity, which gives the merchant false hopes. Therefore the Mishnah says “he has no intention of buying it” and a parallel [source] (Bava Metzia 58b) states that he doesn’t even have any money.

As for our own day, once again the law ofona’at devarim is very applicable. Let us say that Reuven goes into a warehouse outlet in order to buy a computer, but he wants a demonstration before he spends $1000. The warehouse outlet is not equipped for demonstrations. The salesman says to Reuven: “go to the IBM showroom down the block and ask for a demonstration, then come back here and buy the computer at our low low price”. Reuven complies and gets a free demonstration plus a discount.

In this case, Reuven has committed ona’at devarim—verbal deception. When Reuven asks for the demonstration at the IBM store, he has absolutely no intention of purchasing the computer there. He merely wants a free demonstration. The IBM salesman is being deceived. He either loses a real customer while waiting on Reuven, or feels badly when Reuven walks out on him after a half-hour demonstration. This isona’at devarim.

False Packaging or False Labeling


This is an example of geneyvat da’at, which literally means, “stealing a person’s mind.” Interestingly enough, [this prohibition] is not based on a specific verse from the Bible, but was derived by the Sages from the laws of theft and the laws of honesty. We learn in the [second-century commentary, the]Mekhilta (D’nezikin, Chap. 13): “There are seven kinds of thieves: the first is he who steals themind of his neighbor…”

The Talmud gives a number of specific examples of such false packaging or false labeling. [Two examples follow:]

“Our Sages have taught: one should not sell a sandal made from the leather of an animal that died of disease as if it was made from the leather of an animal that was slaughtered, because he is misleading the customer.” (B.T. Hullin 94a)

“One should not sift the beans at the top of the bushel because he is “deceiving the eye” by making the customer think that the entire bushel has been sifted. It is forbidden to paint animals or utensils in order to improve their appearance or cover up their defects.” (B.T. Bava Metzia 60a-b)

We are all familiar with these kinds of false packaging. A wholesaler takes an inferior brand of shirt and puts on Pierre Cardin labels. You buy a box of perfect-looking tomatoes or strawberries, only to discover upon opening the box at home that they were packaged with the bad spots facing down. And we all know how used cars are touched up and polished for the sole purpose of overcharging the customer. These are all good examples ofgeneyvat da’at, clearly forbidden by Jewish law.


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Jonathan P
link 02/28/17 10:05:38AM @jonathan-p:

MAC,

Would you mind showing me where I praised him? I know you have reasonably good reading comprehension. My objective was to encourage people to acknowledge that he is now the President, and much of the protestation that goes on today is wasted, as it should have been done prior to election day. Only after the election have we gotten the full force of hate and angst; and it is all for naught. It's done. He's in. Now we observe.

As far as your faux mysterious mention of Wilbur Ross, you give the impression that he engaged in activities that run against the US, which is a really shitty, unproven allegation. Just more in the narrative of distraction, and refusing to move on.

As far as your Talmudic cut/paste, save it for someone who never picked up a mesekhta to analyze it. Again, not praising. Just acknowledging what is.

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A. Macarthur
link 02/28/17 10:39:23AM @a-macarthur:

MAC,

Would you mind showing me where I praised him? I know you have reasonably good reading comprehension. My objective was to encourage people to acknowledge that he is now the President, and much of the protestation that goes on today is wasted, as it should have been done prior to election day. 

By referring or alluding to Trump's "SUCCESSES," the seeded article equivocates …

"Must You Admire The President In Order To Acknowledge His Successes?"

While in fact, Trump is now the President, that fact alone not only does not exonerate him from his unethical business practices, it strongly implies an ignorant electorate, one that is not only willing to overlook his multiple indiscretions, but, at its base level, favors them over fairness and tolerance!

Only after the election have we gotten the full force of hate and angst; and it is all for naught. It's done. He's in. Now we observe.

To which hatred and angst do you refer, Jonathan? The toppled gravestones and desecration of Jewish cemeteries … vandalism and threats against synagogues; I see it as no coincidence … the Breitbart, Bannon, Miller, Spencer, et al connection to Trump, gives more than just tacit approval to assholes who manifest their hatred in a Trump-presidency era. 

As far as your faux mysterious mention of Wilbur Ross, you give the impression that he engaged in activities that run against the US, which is a really shitty, unproven allegation. Just more in the narrative of distraction, and refusing to move on.

You obviously know nothing of Ross' connections and business dealings; the various members of Trump's circle with Russian dealing ought to raise suspicions. Did you know that Trump never met Rex Tillerson prior to the election? Don't tell me to move on unless you can summarily dismiss the Russia concerns while the Trump Administration tries to quell investigations! Innocence encourages INVESTIGATIONS in order to bring that innocence into the light of day and end the suspicions.

As far as your Talmudic cut/paste, save it for someone who never picked up a mesekhta to analyze it. Again, not praising. Just acknowledging what is.

Why do you and some of the usuals denigrate cut and paste … INFORMATION IS INFORMATION regardless of how it's presented. 

And don't talk down to me … I have had and done my share of mitzvahs … 

If you're going to seed articles that will obviously evoke discussion, then don't complain when some of that discussion is of a dissenting nature.

 

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Jonathan P
link 02/28/17 10:48:02AM @jonathan-p:

I didn't dissent, I responded. I believe that you have taken personal umbrage to my response. I was only responding in kind.

To which hatred and angst so you refer, Jonathan? The toppled gravestones and desecration of Jewish cemeteries … vandalism and threats against synagogues; I see it as no coincidence … the Breitbart, Bannon, Miller, Spencer, et al connection to Trump, gives more than just tacit approval to assholes who manifest their hatred in a Trump-presidency era. 

Mnuchen, Cohen, Kushner, his daughter...

To attribute anti-Semitic behavior throughout the country and world to Trump is intellectually and actually dishonest.

You obviously know nothing of Ross' connections and business dealings;

I am well aware, and it did not stop him from gaining confirmation. BTW, he received 72 votes, which means that we all own this.

 

 

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A. Macarthur
link 02/28/17 10:57:16AM @a-macarthur:

Mnuchen, Cohen, Kushner, his daughter...

Dathans* who break bread with anti-semites for their own personal reasons, gains, power.

We clearly see them differently.

Dathan, together with his brother Abiram, belonged to the quarrelsome and seditious personages in Egypt and in the wilderness who sought, on every occasion, to place difficulties in the way of Moses.

 

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Jonathan P
link 02/28/17 11:01:53AM @jonathan-p:

Right.

And you see J Street as just another helpful group, that wants to do the best for Israel and her neighbors.

If I knew you'd be shoveling bullshit, I'd have worn my hipboots.

 

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A. Macarthur
link 02/28/17 11:12:06AM @a-macarthur:

Why do you insist on the disingenuous act of arbitrarily attributing beliefs and positions to those who disagree with you.

I said nothing about "J Street" … you pulled that out of the air to change the direction of the discussion; I HAVE RESPONDED SPECIFICALLY TO EACH OF YOUR COMMENTS … don't try to make me defend what I haven't stated.

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Jonathan P
link 02/28/17 11:32:07AM @jonathan-p:

You listed names that mean absolutely nothing to current events, other than pure unadulterated speculation.

That better?

 

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A. Macarthur
link 02/28/17 11:44:08AM @a-macarthur:

You listed names that mean absolutely nothing to current events, other than pure unadulterated speculation.

That better?

Nope!

Several people who worked in Trump’s campaign and have joined his administration have controversial ties to Russia. His secretary of state, former Exxon Mobil CEO Rex Tillerson, did business with Putin. Trump’s national security adviser Lt. Gen. Michael Flynn was fired earlier this month for failing to fully inform Vice President Mike Pence about conversations he had had with the Russian ambassador before Inauguration Day about sanctions.

Campaign manager Paul Manafort resigned from the campaign last Aug. 19 over his business ties to the former Ukrainian president, who is now living in Russia.

 


Wilbur Ross …


l
R

http://www.mcclatchydc.com/news/politics-government/congress/article135347154.html


Ross confirmed to Cabinet but White House refuses to release his answers on Russia


Got lots more; let's not try to stifle discussion and information regarding connections to Trump's "successes". Let's have a bi-partisan commission investigate this Trump affinity to those with known Russian business dealings.

I know the paranoid among his followers want to play this down … but anyone who truly believes there's nothing there  … would not only (and properly) say, "PROVE IT," but would clamor for a bi-partisan investigation with subpoena power to PROVE THERE'S NOTHING TO IT!

Again, INNOCENCE wants itself to be shown in the light of day.

"You do not have to incriminate yourself. But once you assert your innocence, and once you say you didn't do anything wrong, you can't then use the Fifth Amendment to say, 'I'm not answering questions.'"

_ Rush Limbaugh

You tell 'em, Rush!

GG

ttp://www.mcclatchydc.com/news/politics-government/congress/article135347154.html

 

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Jonathan P
link 02/28/17 12:40:50PM @jonathan-p:

So lemme get this straight.

The President is a businessman.

He has appointed a number of businessmen to his government.

In the course of their dealings, they have dealt with Russia. Russia is not an ally, but there are business dealings with Russia that are legal. We are currently embroiled with a number of contentious issues regarding Russia. Does this mean that these people should be disqualified from government because they did business with Russia?

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A. Macarthur
link 02/28/17 01:57:09PM @a-macarthur:

He has appointed a number of businessmen to his government.

In the course of their dealings, they have dealt with Russia. Russia is not an ally, but there are business dealings with Russia that are legal. We are currently embroiled with a number of contentious issues regarding Russia. Does this mean that these people should be disqualified from government because they did business with Russia?

"In the course of their dealings" … 

"Does it mean they should be disqualified from government" … not in and of the dealings themselves, but, given that 17 American agencies know that Russia had some level of involvement in the POTUS election, it creates, if not reason to investigate (which it does), then at the very least, reasons to be concerned enough to … be concerned.

Let us not play "naive".

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Jonathan P
link 02/28/17 02:09:12PM @jonathan-p:

I'm not playing "naïve". My general attitude is that if something was impactful to the election, we'd have known it already.

BTW, NOTHING is more impactful to an election than a biased media, spoonfeeding the viewer the information it would like to be known, while deemphasizing and downplaying other information.

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A. Macarthur
link 02/28/17 02:19:15PM @a-macarthur:

I'm not playing "naïve". My general attitude is that if something was impactful to the election, we'd have known it already.

That was the attitude regarding Nixon and Watergate … until the facts were ultimately known. And there is already "known" information in the FBI's classified report (which has yet to be released to the public) … AND WHICH Mitch McConnell 

BTW, NOTHING is more impactful to an election than a biased media, spoonfeeding the viewer the information it would like to be known, while deemphasizing and downplaying other information.

No one got more media coverage during the campaign or the election than did Trump!

McConnell announces Senate probe of suspected Russian election interference: ‘The Russians are not our friends’

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/powerpost/wp/2016/12/12/schumer-on-congressional-probe-of-russia-i-dont-want-this-to-turn-into-a-benghazi-investigation/?utm_term=.37ebce3ef08a

FBI backs CIA report on


 

Russian interference: report


 

http://thehill.com/policy/defense/310769-fbi-backs-cia-report-on-russian-interference

The FBI supports a CIA assessment that Russia deliberately attempted to intervene in the election to help President-elect Donald Trump win, The Washington Post reported on Friday.

Both FBI Director James Comey and Director of National Intelligence James Clapper stand by the CIA assessment, the report said.

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Jonathan P
link 02/28/17 05:04:33PM @jonathan-p:

If the "known" information was so critical and irrefutable and important, there would already have been action taken.

I'm not sure if you have children, but if you do, then you know that there's one kind of "attention" that can be given. In the Presidential race, the Democratic candidate did receive less attention, but it was far more supportive and yes, biased.

And I'm very happy for the "assessment" of the various intelligence agencies. Perhaps they can provide us with some proof positive before 2020.

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A. Macarthur
link 02/28/17 05:35:13PM @a-macarthur:

If the "known" information was so critical and irrefutable and important, there would already have been action taken.

Clearly you have little or no knowledge of investigations and compiling and verification of evidence and the typically protracted time frames. 

The FBI conducts several different types of investigations, and each is governed by certain rules, as set out in guidelines issued by the U.S. Attorney General. These guidelines have been modified over the last decade to give the FBI broad latitude and authority in conducting investigations.

Even at the assessment stage, where the FBI can initiate an investigation without any indication of terrorist or criminal activity, it can gather a wide range of information. As evidence of a possible national security threat or crime accumulates, the FBI can use more and more intrusive investigative tools. The FBI does not have to start with an assessment and work its way up; if it has sufficient information, it can start at the top.

I'm not sure if you have children, but if you do, then you know that there's one kind of "attention" that can be given. In the Presidential race, the Democratic candidate did receive less attention, but it was far more supportive and yes, biased.

Trump was given center stage at the televised debates during the primaries. And I challenge you to quantify the so-called "supportive" attention given to Clinton … 

And I'm very happy for the "assessment" of the various intelligence agencies. Perhaps they can provide us with some proof positive before 2020.

Your sarcasm indicates both your bias and lack of understanding of the process.

It's not my assessment …

17 Intelligence Agencies Agree

 


http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/onpolitics/2016/10/21/17-intelligence-agencies-russia-behind-hacking/92514592/

Russia hacking: US intelligence chief hits back at Donald Trump's 'disparagement'


https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2017/jan/05/russia-election-hacking-hearing-congress

Again … only those who fear the realities with regard to a Trump Russia connection fear and reject the idea of an investigation. Anyone who believes that there is no such connection ought to want an investigation to clear the air once-and-for-all.

 

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Dowser
link 02/28/17 02:06:29AM @dowser:

If Trump ever does anything that is wildly successful, you can be sure I will sing his praises.  Until then, expect me to grow more and more dismayed.

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96WS6
link 02/28/17 02:10:44AM @96ws6:

You would be the first I know of to complain about McMasters being appointed.

 

Every dog has his day.

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Dowser
link 02/28/17 02:15:02AM @dowser:

I have never mentioned McMasters in a post, much less complain about him.  I don't know enough about him to complain.

I think you are painting me with a giant brush, and have no idea who I really am.

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Spikegary
link 02/28/17 09:57:36AM @spikegary:

To answer the title question, No.  There were things that President Obama did that I applauded, though not many.  You don't have to like him, but he is our President.  Nobody personally liked Johnson (especially those close to him-he was an ego centric asshole of the first order) though he did do some good things and deserves his place in history for them.

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PJ
link 02/28/17 10:32:57AM @pj:

LOL

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Perrie Halpern R.A.
link 02/28/17 11:18:21AM @perrie-halpern:

An interesting question Jon. I can't remember the last time I admired a president. I have had different levels of disgust for them. Some for being effectual in a way I disliked and some for being totally ineffectual. When they have had successes, I did acknowledge them. When they were decent human beings, I took note of that, too. As for Trump, at this point, the only thing that I can point to with approval is his treatment of Iran. I never agreed with Obama's policy with them. Other than that, I have many concerns, like education, the environment, the free press, etc., but only time will tell how they shake out. 

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JohnRussell
link 02/28/17 11:39:08AM @johnrussell:

How about his incessant lying and self-aggrandizing Perrie? How does that grab you?

If you were still a grade school teacher would you tell your students to admire President Trump, at all?

God , I hope not. 

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Perrie Halpern R.A.
link 02/28/17 01:29:22PM @perrie-halpern:

How about his incessant lying and self-aggrandizing Perrie? How does that grab you?

As a New Yorker, I knew what we were getting when he became Prez. I wasn't happy. 

If you were still a grade school teacher would you tell your students to admire President Trump, at all?

News Flash John! As a teacher, you are not supposed to give your political POV to your students, so the question isn't even applicable. 

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JohnRussell
link 02/28/17 02:00:42PM @johnrussell:

As a New Yorker, I knew what we were getting when he became Prez.

Plenty of people who don't live in New York knew or quickly found out about Trump. He was the least qualified person to ever run for president on a major party ticket. 

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magnoliaave
link 02/28/17 11:52:35AM @magnoliaave:

I did vote for President Trump!  Does he always present himself as I wish he would?  Absolutely, not!  God help me if Hillary Clinton had been voted in! 

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A. Macarthur
link 02/28/17 02:33:50PM @a-macarthur:

Some Republicans in Congress are calling for an investigation … IMO, for two reasons, neither of which is altruistic.

1) Fear of losing House and Senate seats in a Watergate and Senate Franking scandal-like voter backlash.

2) Fear that if an investigation or leak makes Russian interference in the POTUS election an undeniable fact, in retrospect, they will be seen as having impeded justice and preventing Americans from knowing what we have the right to know.

Either way, they fear a voter backlash.

Doing the right thing for the wrong reason.

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Randy
link 03/01/17 08:40:13PM @randy:

Some Republicans in Congress are calling for an investigation

Including, curiously enough, Darrell Issa calling for a Special Prosecutor. I don't like the man, but he does sense something very bad politically in this Russian mess that is going to come to a head and I believe he'd rather be portrayed as being on the "good" side early, as opposed to the "bad" side later. This Russian issue is not going to go away, it's just going to get worse and it will be very bad for all involved.

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A. Macarthur
link 02/28/17 02:36:21PM @a-macarthur:

One more thing …

One of Donald Trump’s Moscow pipelines is a partnership that lets oligarchs convert illicit funds into Manhattan real estate while lining Trump’s pocket. How is Wilbur Ross going to top that?


These relationships between nominee Ross and the oligarchs involve ownership and management of a European bank with a reputation for laundering Russian money and making bad loans.

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A. Macarthur
link 02/28/17 02:43:08PM @a-macarthur:

NOTE: I'm not leaving the discussion, but, my wife had SUCCESSFUL surgery and she's being discharged from the hospital and coming home, so, I'm going to pick her up and, make sure she has whatever she wants for dinner tonight.

I will rejoin this discussion first chance.

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JohnRussell
link 02/28/17 02:45:36PM @johnrussell:

That's good news.

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Dowser
link 02/28/17 02:57:17PM @dowser:

BEst wishes to her!

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Perrie Halpern R.A.
link 02/28/17 04:59:37PM @perrie-halpern:

Great News Mac! Send her my regards.

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Kavika
link 02/28/17 06:24:17PM @kavika:

Good news Mac....Send her my regards and some Fry Bread.

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A. Macarthur
link 02/28/17 06:30:42PM @a-macarthur:

Many thanks to those who sent good wishes!

Actually, she requested wonton soup and chicken fried rice!

And of course, I delivered.

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Buzz of the Orient
link 05/17/17 12:41:20AM @buzz-of-the-orient:

Aha!!!!  She likes the food I eat all the time.  Good health and a long life to her.

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PJ
link 03/27/17 05:54:28PM @pj:

This question is premature.  Donald Trump has done NOTHING so far worth discussing that would fall in the realm of admirable unless you're a member of the mob, a Russian, a con artist, or a Pimp.    

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Steve Ott
link 05/16/17 11:42:37PM @steve-ott:

1)Things are far better than they seem

Where and how?

2)We are not going to war with any countries

Yet. There is still time

3)We are not going to engage in trade wars

Unknown. See 2 above.

4)Melania is not afraid of her husband

What does this have to do with Presidential success?

5)There is no real and present danger to democracy

Of course not. Democracy has never been allowed.

6)Russia did what was good for Russia

See 4 above.

 

 

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Randy
link 05/17/17 12:08:35AM @randy:

1) Agreed.

2) North Korea looks likely and we are still in two wars.

3) Canada (milk and timber)

4) Unknown, but agree

5) Agree, but our so-called "Democratic Institutions" are under serious attack.

6) So does Trump.

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