Should Trump have Honored Navy Seal Ryan Owens in His Speech?

jerry-verlinger
By:  @jerry-verlinger, 3 months ago
Comments: 45 ..

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Yesterday Donald Trump delivered what has been called a “Presidential Speech”, and for the most part it was. It seems he has managed to get a grip on how do deliver a message that came forth, as it should, in a manner that must expected from a United States President.

IMO message was still terrible, but the delivery was a great improvement. For the most part the speech was written by Trump, speech writers, aids, and VP Pence, even the First Lady had some input.  The end result was then read to us from teleprompters, with some notable improvement from Trump in that skill, however the level of sincerity seemed to be seriously lacking.

The one part of the presentation that leaves many pundits critical, is the honor given to our fallen Navy Seal William “Ryan” Owens. Some people are saying that Trump used the star widow, Carryn Owns, as a prop, when earlier in the day Trump had criticized the military for Owens death.

My problem with that kind of criticizing is, it is an insult to Carryn Owens. The new widow was obviously very moved, and I'm sure she felt proud and thought it was a great honor to have her fallen husband and father of her three children honored in a presidential speech on national television. In the first place, it was a great and deserved honor. What I don't understand is why some people have the nerve to openly say call the widow was "used" and was a"prop" to make Trump look better.

People can call Trump all kinds of an asshole, a liar, a prick and many other names the guy has brought onto himself. But to publicly step on the unwanted honor Carryn Owens has to bear in order to take a jab at Donald Trump is unconscionable. Compounding these insults is the media hasn't stopped talking about it, causing the hurt to continue.

We need to grow up.  

 

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Jerry Verlinger
link 03/01/17 06:12:39PM @jerry-verlinger:

Should Trump Have Honored Navy Seal Ryan Owens In His Speech?

Yes, of course he should have. The man died serving our military as he had taken an oath to do, regardless if the mission was militarily or politically unsound. 

.......when earlier in the day Trump had criticized the military for Owens death.

Not every military decision is correct, (re; Napoleon and Russia) plus, almost every military operation is influenced by politics.  

Every military person, even those of our enemies, that dies on a mission, any mission, has died in honor for their country.

Ryan and Carryn Owens deserved yesterdays honor, and Donald Trump was right in giving it. 

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jwc2blue
link 03/02/17 02:06:39AM @jwc2blue:

Not every military decision is correct.

I don't think that any reasonable person expects them to be. His failure was blaming the military when he gave the go ahead order.

Nobody with any integrity or courage takes credit when things go well but casts blame when they don't.

And still mostly ignored is the score of civilians, including children that were also killed.

 

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Randy
link 03/02/17 02:12:00AM @randy:

It's estimated that at least 9 of those killed were children under the age of 13. The mission was falling apart almost as soon as it started and should have been aborted.

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Jerry Verlinger
link 03/02/17 05:05:32PM @jerry-verlinger:

The mission was falling apart almost as soon as it started and should have been aborted.

I don't know how you expect Trump to be able to abort the mission when he ws busy catching up on his twitter account.

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Randy
link 03/02/17 05:09:50PM @randy:

Which is a gross dereliction of duty and shows he doesn't deserve to be a CiC.

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Sean Treacy
link 03/02/17 05:31:00PM @s:

Yes, the President with no military experience should be making tactical decisions from thousands of miles away  rather then the on-site commander.

Do you even think about what you are writing or just start flinging whatever shit you can find?

If Trump was playing platoon commander from Washington DC you'd be the first to crucify him for playing soldier. 

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Jerry Verlinger
link 03/04/17 04:52:56AM @jerry-verlinger:

If Trump was playing platoon commander from Washington DC you'd be the first to crucify him for playing soldier.

I take it "S" is Trump supporter. 

Good luck with that one.

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Jerry Verlinger
link 03/02/17 05:02:27PM @jerry-verlinger:

His failure was blaming the military when he gave the go ahead order.

Donald Trump has not, and will not, ever accept any blame for anything that goes wrong on his watch.

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Randy
link 03/02/17 05:11:27PM @randy:

Even Jimmy Carter accept fault for military operations that went wrong on his watch. So I guess Trump supporters would have to admit that, when it comes to being a CiC, Carter was a better one the Trump is. In fact I am surprised Trump didn't try to blame this fuck up of his on Carter!

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Jerry Verlinger
link 03/02/17 01:27:29AM @jerry-verlinger:

CNN is still talking about this because, to them, it is a good 'public interest' story. 

So, should Trump have placed the woman it this position?

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Randy
link 03/02/17 01:40:12AM @randy:

Yes he should have honored Ryan though he should not have lied that the mission acquired any actionable or usable intelligence. Also his comment about Ryan smiling down from heaven because he broke the record for a standing ovation was extremely tacky and crass.

Ryan Owen was obviously a very brave man and a hero. However his life was wasted on an ill advised and badly committed mission that should have been aborted when the element of surprise was gone by the Commander in Chief who instead of being in the Situation Room with his top military people instead of wandering around the White House tweeting about an upcoming interview he had. And then blaming the whole clusterfuck on the military instead of being a REAL President and taking the responsibility himself.

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Jerry Verlinger
link 03/02/17 03:29:22AM @jerry-verlinger:

Yes he should have honored Ryan though he should not have lied that the mission acquired any actionable or usable intelligence.

Lying and exaggerating is a Trump lifelong habit, I suppose the system we have chosen to elect our presidents is leaving us too have to deal with this bullshit for the next four years.

Also his comment about Ryan smiling down from heaven because he broke the record for a standing ovation was extremely tacky and crass.

Being tacky and crass is also a Trump lifelong habit.

Ryan Owen was obviously a very brave man and a hero. However his life was wasted on an ill advised and badly committed mission....

I beg to differ re; his life was wasted. Every person that dies while serving their Commander-in-Chief is a hero, ....period.

The political or military competence in advising or ordering the mission does not affect the honor and the so called 'wastefulness' of his military oath.

The effectiveness and necessity of the mission was, as almost always, a political decision.

Almost 600,000 southern civil war Americans died serving an oath the believed, they are all heros.      

that should have been aborted when the element of surprise was gone by the Commander in Chief who instead of being in the Situation Room with his top military people instead of wandering around the White House tweeting about an upcoming interview he had. And then blaming the whole clusterfuck on the military instead of being a REAL President and taking the responsibility himself.

Welcome to twitter world.

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Randy
link 03/02/17 03:36:49AM @randy:

I beg to differ re; his life was wasted. Every person that dies while serving their Commander-in-Chief is a hero, ....period.

His Commander in Chief is not taking any responsibility for his death and is instead blaming the Generals. Which is cowardly. There is no doubt that Ryan is a hero, but there is also no doubt that his death was easily avoidable. He died for nothing. His life was thrown away.

Welcome to twitter world.

Inexcusable failure of his duty. Ryan Owen's life was more important then any tweet.

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Jerry Verlinger
link 03/02/17 04:44:36AM @jerry-verlinger:

His Commander in Chief is not taking any responsibility for his death and is instead blaming the Generals. Which is cowardly.

Donald Trumps ego is going to dominate every decision made in the Oval Office for the next four years. 

There is no doubt that Ryan is a hero, but there is also no doubt that his death was easily avoidable. He died for nothing. His life was thrown away.

Yes he is a hero, and it is a shame he died following an order that should not have been given. However, that is the practice of the military.

Inexcusable failure of his duty. Ryan Owen's life was more important then any tweet.

We elected him and we elected his tweets. I doubt he will ever understand he cannot run this country by ignoring the media and and tweeting Americans. 

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Randy
link 03/02/17 02:01:04PM @randy:

We elected him and we elected his tweets.

I didn't.

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Jerry Verlinger
link 03/02/17 05:34:37PM @jerry-verlinger:

I didn't.

Sorry about that Randy. It's not an "I" thing. Regardless of how you voted, or if you voted or not, we the American public collectively made this person our president.

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Randy
link 03/02/17 05:44:27PM @randy:

He is American's first Russian President and more and more reporting is showing that. When I joined the Air Force I took an oath to protect and defend the Constitution of the United States from all enemies both foreign and domestic. To me Trump qualifies as both. He is an enemy of America, I believe he will be exposed as such and is not my President.

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Cerenkov
link 03/02/17 11:51:31PM @cerenkov:

Delusions are not reality. 

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Randy
link 03/03/17 12:01:11AM @randy:

That's true. Which is why you should stop deluding yourself and accept the truth.

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Cerenkov
link 03/03/17 12:06:01AM @cerenkov:

The truth is that Trump is your president and you are not Napoleon. 

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Jerry Verlinger
link 03/04/17 03:56:18AM @jerry-verlinger:

The truth is that Trump is your president and you are not Napoleon. 

I haven't spoken to any personal contacts that has accepting Trump as being their president. He is a President, by virtue a flawed election system, but in reality he is a President to a very small number of narrow minded and racially oriented rednecks.  

I've been told there pools out there betting on the time he will step down or be impeached.

I think the man was thinking that running his 8.5 billion dollar empire was a big deal compared to running a government, even the U.S. government. He thinks that Congressman, Senators, Ambassadors, and Heads of States are amateurs. I suppose he's beginning to become aware the job is way more than he bargained for. 

I know the job is way, way too much for the childish mind of Donald J. Trump. 

I will call him Trump, Donald, The Donald, asshole and other things I haven't yet thought of, but you will never see me refer to him as President.

I didn't even call Bush Jr. an asshole. Actually, up until now, I have refrained from calling our presidents names. Even Junior deserved some level of respect.  But this guy? I can't even imagine having lunch with an obnoxious, disrespecting, classless fool like him.   

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Randy
link 03/04/17 04:31:23AM @randy:

I agree completely and for many of the same reasons you do. I also think he is far too close to Vladimir Putin who is after all really nothing more then the Godfather of the Russian Mafia. The connections are far too any and far too deep for it not only to be a cause for suspicion, but that it would be a cause of total wonderment if he was not in financial bed with him, especially over the EXXON/Mobil oil and gas fields currently under US sanction that Trump could someday drop and receive a large kickback from Putin and his mobsters for doing so. I am also sure the Tillersion would benefit greatly from this deal.

Trump had better be careful though. In his world if you fuck someone over they sue you and you ignore them, throw a lot of lawyers at them or settle for a small amount. In Putin's world if you fuck him over he kills you, even if you are pretending to be the President of the US and are surrounded by Secret Service Agents. That goes for his kids, his son-in-law and Tillerson too. They are playing children's games with a cobra and no protection in the world will stop that cobra from getting to him or his family.

 

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Jerry Verlinger
link 03/04/17 05:18:05AM @jerry-verlinger:

He is an enemy of America, I believe he will be exposed as such and is not my President.

Legally he is the President, yours and mine. We don't have to believe like him or believe in what he is doing to our country. But until he commits a impeachable act (which he eventually will do), he is the President of the United States, our United States.

IMO, he is leading us into an oligarchy form of government. He's a multi billionaire, he has 3 of his billionaire friends on his Cabinet along with with 3 or 4 retired military generals. Where do you think this country will be in 20 years if the Trump style of government is allowed to continue? 

Oligarchy [ol-i-gahr-kee]  

noun, plural oligarchies.

1. a form of government in which all power is vested in a few persons or in a dominant class or clique; government by the few.

2. a state or organization so ruled.

3. the persons or class so ruling.

Oligarchy (from Greek ὀλιγαρχία (oligarkhía); from ὀλίγος (olígos), meaning "few", and ἄρχω (arkho), meaning "to rule or to command") is a form of power structure in which power rests with a small number of people. These people might be distinguished by nobility, wealth, family ties, education or corporate, religious or military control. Such states are often controlled by a few prominent families who typically pass their influence from one generation to the next, but inheritance is not a necessary condition for the application of this term.

Throughout history, oligarchies have often been tyrannical, relying on public obedience or oppression to exist. Aristotle pioneered the use of the term as a synonym for rule by the rich, for which another term commonly used today is plutocracy.

Read more

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Randy
link 03/04/17 05:54:20AM @randy:

No, he is not legally the President of the United States. He is a usurper. He is a person who was installed as the leader of our country, like a potentate or prince, by a foreign power. I have no loyalty and I have no obligation to accept someone who has been put into power by a foreign government over control of my country. In fact it is my duty as an American, my obligation, to resist him and his administration in any way legally possible and if he goes too far to resist him as the French Resistance rose up against the Nazis during WWII. He is not an American President in any manner. He is an invader.

He is NOT legally the President of the United States of America because that title was stolen for him by Vladimir Putin and he is not my President. I am proud to say that I am a member of the American Resistance and will be until he and his Nazi like, Authoritarian administration is driven from power. I have no other choice but to do this because I am an American. I am compelled to do it. It is my duty under the Constitution. It is every real American's duty under the Constitution. I have to do it!

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The_Jewel
link 03/07/17 10:16:43AM @the-jewel:

He's not your president because he was spotted eating a salad with Russian salad dressing?

laughing dude

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1ofmany
link 03/02/17 08:45:30AM @1ofmany:

Ryan Owen was obviously a very brave man and a hero. However his life was wasted on an ill advised and badly committed mission....

I beg to differ re; his life was wasted. Every person that dies while serving their Commander-in-Chief is a hero, ....period.

The political or military competence in advising or ordering the mission does not affect the honor and the so called 'wastefulness' of his military oath.

Randy wasn't commenting on the wastefulness of an oath but rather on the stupidity of a commander and chief who needlessly sacrifices the lives of his men. Even a hero's life can be wasted. 

The effectiveness and necessity of the mission was, as almost always, a political decision.

Almost 600,000 southern civil war Americans died serving an oath the believed, they are all heros.      

They may all be patriots in the sense that they died bravely for their country but there's nothing heroic to me about fighting to advance or maintain a monstrous policy like slavery or world domination by the Nazis. The real heroes were the ones who stood up to their government's awful policy, not the ones who carried it out. So while all who serve may be patriots, all patriots are not necessarily heroes. 

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Randy
link 03/02/17 05:22:42PM @randy:

Exactly right.

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Jerry Verlinger
link 03/02/17 05:53:57PM @jerry-verlinger:

So while all who serve may be patriots, all patriots are not necessarily heroes. 

Imagine telling any Southern American or German family that lost a loved one in a war, and think of the look you would get from them.

Any person that dies fighting for their country is a hero regardless if they were on your side or not. 

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Randy
link 03/02/17 06:00:46PM @randy:

I disagree. The Japanese who died during the Rape of Nanjing were fighting for their country. Were they heroes? The Nazis who died rounding up and slaughtering Jews and Gays and Gypsies and other "undesirables" were fighting for their country. Were they heroes? Not everyone who dies fighting for their country is a hero when the goals of what their country is fighting for is, as 1ofmany says, "Monstrous". Just saying "Yes Sir" and going off to kill for a horrible goal does not make you a hero. It makes you a murderer. That's why we have war crime trials.

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Jerry Verlinger
link 03/04/17 05:44:14AM @jerry-verlinger:

The Japanese who died during the Rape of Nanjing were fighting for their country. Were they heroes? The Nazis who died rounding up and slaughtering Jews and Gays and Gypsies and other "undesirables" were fighting for their country. Were they heroes?

I stand corrected, not all men that die in warefare are heros. Some men stopped fighting for their country. They belonged to out of control militaries, and commanders, and they were acting for themselves. If the civilized people of their countries knew, and/or could have done something to stop them, I am sure they would have. 

War is vicious and has a tendency to produce vicious people. Keep in mind, history has recorded events taken upon by some US fighters that consisted of war crimes. When they were caught they were punished.

No, rapist and mass murders are not heros, no matter what country they are supposed to be fighting for.

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1ofmany
link 03/02/17 06:41:06PM @1ofmany:

Any person that dies fighting for their country is a hero regardless if they were on your side or not. 

Any person who died trying to enslave others may be heroes to their family but they are certainly not heroes to me. So I strongly disagree.

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Jerry Verlinger
link 03/02/17 05:25:29PM @jerry-verlinger:

...... he should not have lied that the mission acquired any actionable or usable intelligence.

Such a lie should be bringing outrage from the public. However, Trump has been caught lying to Americans so frequently that they have gotten used to it, and it's reasonable to expect they're going to continue accepting such behavior. (until maybe he shoots someone on Fifth  Ave.)   

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Spikegary
link 03/02/17 07:07:30AM @spikegary:

Let's see, the President gets a briefing on a plan devised by the military, based on what they have gathered via intelligence.  The generals sell the president on their plan to get a go ahead order (this is how it's done and has been done for the last few generations, at least).  Since none of us were in the room, what was presented to the president?  If the intelligence was faulty, how was he to know it, unless briefed of that fact by those same generals?  Do you think a president, any president, is magical and automatically knows all the intelligence in the world through osmosis?

Randy, I believe you said you were once in the Air Force, if you were, you should have learned that nothing is as simple as Monday Morning Arm Chair Quarterbacking, especially any kind of 'mission'.

Should he have said anything about the ovation?  No.  But he's not a politician, so political correctness is a construct that he does not live by, for better or for worse. And to say something off script that goes wrong, it happens all the time.  President Obama looked like a blithering idiot when he went 'off teleprompter'.  If you're going to have a standard, you should apply it evenly.

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Randy
link 03/02/17 02:07:44PM @randy:

Do you think a president, any president, is magical and automatically knows all the intelligence in the world through osmosis?

No, but he should have been in the situation room with his top military commanders since this was the first time we were putting boots on the ground and the first attack of this type he was going to oversee. Not to be there was dereliction of duty in the first place. The mission started to fall apart when they lost the element of surprise (remember it was possible to see the mission as it was happening in real time). At that point a real CiC would have consulted with the military advisors on how this would affect the mission and it should have been aborted at that point.

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jwc2blue
link 03/02/17 06:51:46PM @jwc2blue:

applause

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Jerry Verlinger
link 03/02/17 06:06:27PM @jerry-verlinger:

President Obama looked like a blithering idiot when he went 'off teleprompter'.

I can't believe you said that. Obama was as relaxed and articulate as anyone I ever saw behind a microphone, teleprompter or not 

Your comment is so completely wrought with bias you should not have bothered posting it.

 

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Randy
link 03/02/17 06:21:16PM @randy:

I remember early in his Presidency the RNC invited him to talk to them on stage on live TV. They asked him question after question and got desperate in their attempts to trip him up, but he was calm and cool the entire time. He was humorous, serious, professorial, on message and in complete command of all of the facts for well over an hour. With no notes and no TelePrompter. In short they invited him to make a fool of him and he made them look foolish. After that they did invite him again, but never allowed cameras in again.

It also came through in his many news conferences. He answered questions in great detail and again with great command of the facts and a display of a wonderful memory and intelligent mind. Very, very few Presidents have ever been as good without notes or a TelePrompTer as Barack Obama. He was a master at it.

Trump, on the other hand, gave a news conference a few weeks ago and it made one wonder if he was drunk.

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Spikegary
link 03/07/17 10:13:37AM @spikegary:

And I saw him unable to complete sentences and trying to answer but unable to put together a coherent thought.  I did see him do speeches where he was on topic (reading off the prompter) and as he spent more years in office he got better at handling questions.  There are some that can't remember anything about him with out drawing a halo over his head.....

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Kavika
link 03/02/17 06:13:48PM @kavika:

Many missions result in a failure, this is not a fucking video game. There are those here that have been on these missions that have fallen apart, resulting in deaths.

That is a fact.

The thing that really bothers me is that Trump seemed to blame the military for the death of the Seal.

That, to me, is totally unacceptable under any circumstances. The ''Buck stops here'' is a old adage from Harry S. Truman, it's as true today as it was then.

To me Trumps degrading McCain and the Khan family was a signal that he has no fucking idea of the sacrifice of our troops. This type of BS coming from someone that received numerous deferrals and than developed a bone spur, is especially galling.

His later comments that he attended a military school and fought off STD in the 60;s and 70's put him in a category that I find particularly despicable.

 

 

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Spikegary
link 03/07/17 08:42:31AM @spikegary:

I agree, he should have left that part out-and taken the generals and Admirals to task privately.  To say he should have been sitting in the situation room evaluating the progress is simply bullshit and only an idiot thinks that's how it works.  They have senior military leadership there that makes or should have made calls and leaders and commanders all the way through the chain of command.  All the armchair quarterbacking from people with no background would be almost comical if it wasn't for the loss of one of our own.

A president, regardless of what party he is from, has a million things going on everyday and depends on the functional area experts.  President Obama watched as results came in on the Bin Laden raid in Pakistan.  Did he watch the whole thing form launch to return?  Doubtful.  Why didn't he do something when the Ossprey 'hard Landed' and had to be destroyed?  You can say afterwards, it was a successful mission (and I agree it was), but if it wasn't, would you who now blame President Trump have blamed President Obama?

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Spikegary
link 03/07/17 08:43:47AM @spikegary:

I would note that he didn't run off to Canada or England to avoid the draft.

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