http://thenewstalkers.com/feed/group_discuss Mon, 09 Nov 2026 14:58:59 -0500 http://thenewstalkers.com/tig/group_discuss/26942/trump-signs-greenland-deal-giving-us-broad-military-authority-on-the-island-cbs-news http://thenewstalkers.com/freewill/group_discuss/26942 Tue, 22 Sep 2026 16:24:16 -0400 http://thenewstalkers.com/tig/group_discuss/26540/trump-gets-one-final-reflecting-pool-humiliation-on-national-tv http://thenewstalkers.com/tig/group_discuss/26540 Mon, 06 Jul 2026 00:06:37 -0400 http://thenewstalkers.com/tig/group_discuss/26519/former-olympian-indicted-over-alleged-reflecting-pool-vandalism-ap-news http://thenewstalkers.com/tig/group_discuss/26519 Thu, 02 Jul 2026 15:38:51 -0400 http://thenewstalkers.com/tig/group_discuss/26513/grift-grift-and-grift-steele-blasts-trump-for-earning-14b-on-crypto-coin-ventures-in-2025 http://thenewstalkers.com/tig/group_discuss/26513 What sort of mind is not outraged by this abysmal human being?]]> Wed, 01 Jul 2026 23:00:37 -0400 http://thenewstalkers.com/tig/group_discuss/26465/was-there-vandalism-whitehouse-comes-down-heavily-over-trump-nominee-on-reflecting-pool http://thenewstalkers.com/tig/group_discuss/26465 We see this avoidance on social media sites.
In essence, we have this:
Senator:       Answer the question!
Sycophant:   No!
]]> Thu, 25 Jun 2026 14:01:22 -0400 http://thenewstalkers.com/tig/group_discuss/26427/trumps-imbecilic-deal-to-end-his-unconstitutional-war http://thenewstalkers.com/tig/group_discuss/26427 Sat, 20 Jun 2026 00:22:23 -0400 http://thenewstalkers.com/tig/group_discuss/26360/hes-a-thug-trump-says-of-maine-senate-candidate-graham-platner http://thenewstalkers.com/tig/group_discuss/26360 ]]> Wed, 10 Jun 2026 22:58:14 -0400 http://thenewstalkers.com/tig/group_discuss/26353/factchecking-trumps-contentious-meet-the-press-interview http://thenewstalkers.com/tig/group_discuss/26353 Tue, 09 Jun 2026 18:05:42 -0400 http://thenewstalkers.com/tig/group_discuss/26338/read-the-transcript-trump-interviewed-by-nbc-news-meet-the-press-moderator-kristen-welker http://thenewstalkers.com/tig/group_discuss/26338 ChatGPT's analysis:


Overall summary

The interview was dominated by Iran and Trump’s defense of an expanding military conflict . Trump argued that Iran’s military and leadership had been largely destroyed, that the United States was close to obtaining a nuclear agreement, and that he would resume overwhelming military action if Iran did not agree quickly. At the same time, he refused to call the conflict a war, describing it as a “military exercise” and saying, “I don’t define it at all. I don’t think about it. I just do what I have to do.”
Trump also:
Defended withdrawing from the 2015 Iran nuclear agreement.
Denied breaking his repeated “no new wars” campaign message.
Minimized the conflict’s human and financial costs by comparing it with Vietnam and Iraq.
Claimed exceptional economic performance despite higher energy and agricultural costs.
Supported the proposed “anti-weaponization” compensation fund and would not categorically exclude every January 6 defendant from receiving money.
Repeated false allegations about FBI involvement in January 6, the 2020 election and California’s current vote count.
Ended the interview after Welker repeatedly asked him for evidence, calling her and several news organizations “crooked” and saying she was “either crooked or stupid.”

The progression is important. The interview began with Trump projecting strategic mastery over Iran. It ended with him refusing to substantiate election claims and attacking the interviewer personally. The interview aired June 7, 2026, after being recorded in Wisconsin. ( AP News )
Fact-check of Trump’s major claims

Trump’s claim Assessment What the evidence shows
The Iran conflict is not really a war but a “military exercise.” Misleading semantic evasion There may be no formal congressional declaration of war, but the United States has conducted sustained strikes since February 28, imposed a naval blockade, suffered military casualties and maintained tens of thousands of personnel in the region. Congress itself has considered the action under the War Powers framework. Calling it merely an “exercise” disguises the nature of the hostilities. ( Reuters ) Iran’s navy, air force and air defenses are essentially gone, and only 21%–22% of its missiles remain. Not independently verifiable These are highly specific military-intelligence claims for which Trump offered no public evidence. Iran continues launching missiles and drones and has retained the ability to attack regional targets. The exact percentage of remaining missiles cannot presently be verified from public information. ( AP News ) The nuclear facilities were “obliterated,” the uranium is entombed and Trump knows where all the material is. Unsupported and contradicted by the public record The latest IAEA reporting says it cannot inspect the affected facilities or verify the current amount, condition or location of Iran’s enriched uranium. Its report found surprisingly little observable change in Iran’s nuclear activity after three months of war. The administration itself is seeking an IAEA resolution demanding that Iran disclose the uranium’s location. Trump may have classified intelligence, but his public certainty is not supported by the available evidence. ( Reuters ) The JCPOA “expired long ago” and was effectively a guaranteed road to an Iranian bomb. False or seriously misleading The agreement had different sunset dates, not one expiration date. Important limits lasted 10 to 15 years, while safeguards and nonproliferation obligations continued. The IAEA verified Iran’s implementation from 2016 until May 2019. Iran began abandoning its commitments in stages approximately one year after Trump withdrew the United States in May 2018. The agreement had legitimate weaknesses, but it was actively restricting and monitoring Iran’s program when Trump left it. ( IAEA ) Iran did not escalate uranium development after Trump withdrew from the deal. False The IAEA records that Iran began reducing compliance in 2019 and eventually stopped implementing the nuclear commitments altogether in 2021. Its stockpile, enrichment level and advanced-centrifuge activity subsequently increased substantially. ( IAEA ) Obama gave Iran $1.7 billion in cash and kept giving it American money. Misleading The $1.7 billion was not a discretionary gift or a nuclear-deal payoff. It settled a decades-old legal claim involving $400 million Iran had paid for military equipment that the United States never delivered, plus approximately $1.3 billion in interest. Physical foreign currency was used because sanctions blocked normal banking transactions. ( AP News ) “I didn’t promise anything” about avoiding new wars. False “No new wars” was a repeated and prominent campaign message, not something invented by Welker after the fact. He may argue that circumstances justified abandoning it, but denying that he made the commitment rewrites his own campaign record. ( AP News ) Only 13 Americans have died in the Iran conflict. Numerically accurate but materially incomplete Thirteen American service members have died. Trump omitted that approximately 400 have been wounded, many with traumatic brain injuries, and that troops remain exposed to continuing attacks despite the nominal ceasefire. Comparing those casualties with Vietnam does not establish that the present strategy is successful or sustainable. ( Reuters ) The United States “took over the whole country” of Venezuela and “lost nobody.” Exaggerated U.S. forces captured Nicolás Maduro in a remarkable operation, and there were apparently no U.S. fatalities. But the United States did not literally conquer or occupy the whole country. A Venezuelan interim government remained in power, albeit heavily influenced by Washington. Venezuelan and Cuban personnel were killed in the operation. ( Reuters ) The May jobs report was “triple” expectations. Jobs figure accurate; comparison exaggerated The economy added 172,000 jobs, as Trump said. The consensus forecast was roughly 80,000, making the result slightly more than twice expectations, not three times. Unemployment remained at 4.3%. ( Bureau of Labor Statistics ) Gasoline will fall “like a rock” and below prewar prices as soon as the conflict ends. Speculative prediction presented as certainty Peace and restoration of oil shipments would probably reduce prices, but the timing and size cannot be guaranteed. Current EIA projections show average gasoline declining more gradually, from about $3.88 in 2026 to $3.62 in 2027, rather than an automatic immediate collapse. ( EIA ) “Growth does not cause inflation.” False as an absolute statement Productivity-driven supply growth can reduce inflation. But rapid demand growth that exceeds the economy’s productive capacity creates demand-pull inflation. That is precisely why unexpectedly strong employment data can lead markets to expect higher interest rates. ( IMF ) Trump gave farmers $28 billion, and China paid for it. First part approximately true; second part false Roughly $28 billion in trade-war assistance was authorized for farmers in 2018 and 2019. China did not fund those checks. Tariffs were legally collected from American importers, with the assistance paid through U.S. government programs. Chinese retaliation was, in fact, why farmers required compensation. ( Council on Foreign Relations ) He built 1,000 miles of southern border wall. False GAO found that approximately 458 miles of barrier panels were installed from January 2017 through January 2021. About 371 miles, or 81%, replaced existing barriers. Only about 87 miles were installed where no barrier had previously existed, including primary and secondary barriers that sometimes covered the same stretch of border. ( GAO ) FBI agents ushered January 6 protesters into the Capitol or encouraged them to enter. False The Justice Department inspector general found no undercover FBI employees in the crowds or at the Capitol. It identified confidential human sources in Washington, but none was authorized to enter restricted areas, commit illegal acts or encourage anyone else to do so. ( DOJ Inspector General ) The January 6 defendants generally pleaded guilty only because they were threatened with long sentences. Unsupported blanket claim Plea bargaining undoubtedly influenced individual decisions, as in most federal prosecutions. But Trump’s assertion ignores extensive video evidence, guilty verdicts after trials and defendants’ own admissions. More than 140 officers were assaulted, and many defendants specifically admitted assaulting or obstructing police. California’s slow count proves the 2026 primary was rigged. False inference without evidence California accepts mail ballots postmarked by Election Day if received by June 9. Provisional ballots, signature verification and the official canvass continue afterward, with county certification due July 2 and state certification July 10. A slow count is an established feature of California law, not evidence of fabricated votes. ( California Secretary of State ) The 2020 election was rigged. False Trump and his allies repeatedly litigated allegations of illegal voting and fraud. Courts, including judges appointed by Republican presidents, rejected the claims or found that the evidence did not establish outcome-changing fraud. Trump’s statement that merely looking and listening to people constitutes evidence is not an evidentiary standard. ( Campaign Legal Center )
Several additional numerical claims, including Iran losing $400 million to $500 million daily , Trump producing 73 stock-market records , and the precise percentage of Iran’s remaining missiles, are not adequately defined or sourced in the interview. They should not be accepted merely because they are expressed confidently. Analysis of Trump’s character in this interview This is an analysis of his observable conduct and political character , not a psychiatric diagnosis. He displays extreme personal confidence bordering on epistemic arrogance Trump rarely distinguishes between what he knows, what intelligence agencies may estimate, what he predicts and what he merely believes. All are delivered with essentially equal certainty. The most revealing exchange is: “I don’t define it at all. I don’t think about it. I just do what I have to do.” That statement suggests a governing philosophy in which personal judgment and action come first, while legal categories, definitions, deliberation and public accountability are secondary. His later statement that his evidence of election fraud was essentially “all I have to do is look” shows the same tendency: his perception becomes its own proof . That quality can produce decisiveness during a real emergency. It also creates an enormous risk of decisions based on incomplete information, personal intuition or information selected to reinforce what he already believes. He is intensely self-referential and self-mythologizing Nearly every development becomes evidence of his exceptional ability: “I built” the military. “I demolished” Iran’s forces. “I saved” the world from a nuclear weapon. Farmers love and trust him. Voters elected him because they recognize his judgment. The country was “dead” before him and is now the “hottest” country in the world. Institutions, military personnel, diplomats and economic forces become supporting characters in a story whose central protagonist is Trump. Even successful military operations are described primarily as things he personally did , rather than actions performed by thousands of military and intelligence professionals. This is more than ordinary political boasting. It indicates a strongly personalist conception of power , in which the nation’s success, legitimacy and safety are tied to the leader’s individual strength. He views the world in binary, dominance-oriented terms His categories are consistently absolute: Winners or losers Strong or weak Rational or crazy Loyal or crooked Brilliant or stupid Total victory or total destruction Iran will either accept his terms or he will “blow the hell out of them.” Journalists who do not accept his assertions are “crooked” or “stupid.” Elections he wins prove popular confidence; elections or counts moving against his candidates are presumed fraudulent. This worldview is useful for mobilizing supporters because it eliminates complexity and creates moral clarity. But it is poorly suited to diplomatic ambiguity, constitutional restraints, coalition management and policy problems requiring compromise. He has very little tolerance for independent contradiction Welker’s questioning became unacceptable to Trump not when she insulted him, but when she repeatedly distinguished assertion from evidence. His response followed a recognizable progression: Reject the premise. Repeat the original claim more forcefully. change the subject to a historical grievance or enemy. Attack the credibility or intelligence of the questioner. Terminate the interaction when control cannot be restored. The ending is particularly revealing. Rather than either provide evidence or admit that he did not have it available, he declared the interviewer and her network corrupt and left. That reflects a low tolerance for accountability that he cannot dominate . He externalizes responsibility but internalizes credit Positive outcomes are attributed personally to Trump. Negative conditions are blamed on Obama, Biden, Democrats, the press, prosecutors, election officials, “dirty cops” or weak previous presidents. Even his decision to withdraw from the JCPOA is not seriously examined as a possible contributor to Iran’s subsequent enrichment. When Welker raises that causal sequence, he rejects it outright and returns to blaming Obama. This asymmetry makes genuine error correction difficult. A leader who treats success as personal proof and failure as sabotage has little incentive to reconsider his premises. His empathy appears subordinate to self-justification Trump says that 13 deaths are too many and that he loves farmers. Those expressions may be sincere. But he almost immediately turns both subjects into arguments for his own success: The deaths become evidence that his war is historically efficient. Farmers’ higher fuel and fertilizer costs become sacrifices they supposedly understand because they trust him. January 6 defendants’ suffering becomes evidence that his political enemies are corrupt. The people involved are therefore often presented less as independent human beings than as supporting evidence for Trump’s preferred narrative. He shows an authoritarian political temperament The interview displays several authoritarian characteristics in the political, rather than clinical, sense: Legitimacy is treated as flowing from the leader’s victory and judgment. Independent institutions are legitimate when they support him and corrupt when they resist him. Political opponents are not merely mistaken but malicious, dishonest or disloyal. Factual disagreement is recast as an attack. Force and fear are treated as primary tools of negotiation. Rules and definitions are viewed as obstacles when they constrain executive action. His support for compensating people prosecuted for January 6, combined with his false FBI narrative and attacks on the courts and press, suggests that loyalty to his movement receives greater moral weight than neutral enforcement of law. He does have real political strengths A fair character assessment should acknowledge them. Trump possesses extraordinary confidence, stamina, message repetition and an instinct for emotionally memorable language. He understands dominance, leverage and audience psychology. He can take complicated subjects and reduce them to easily understood choices. He also appears willing to make decisions that more cautious leaders might postpone indefinitely. Those attributes help explain his continued political success. The problem is that they are coupled with weak factual discipline, little humility, hostility toward institutional checks and an unwillingness to acknowledge error . The same confidence that can make him decisive can also make him dangerously resistant to correction. Final assessment This interview portrays Trump as bold, energetic, combative and highly decisive , but also as grandiose, frequently dishonest, personally vindictive and intolerant of independent scrutiny . The most concerning characteristic is not simply that he made numerous false statements. Politicians frequently misstate facts. It is that Trump appears to reject the principle that his assertions require validation by evidence independent of himself. When evidence conflicts with his position, he often attacks the evidence-producing institution or person rather than revising the claim. His political character is therefore best described as personalist and dominance-driven : he equates his judgment with national interest, his success with national success, and challenges to his claims with corruption or disloyalty. That can produce forceful leadership. It also creates serious risks of military overreach, institutional degradation and decisions that cannot be corrected because acknowledging error would threaten the entire self-created image of infallibility. AP News Reuters Reuters AP News  
]]> Mon, 08 Jun 2026 01:28:03 -0400 http://thenewstalkers.com/tig/group_discuss/26112/trump-gets-humiliated-in-front-of-joint-session-of-congress http://thenewstalkers.com/tig/group_discuss/26112 Tue, 28 Apr 2026 23:13:33 -0400 http://thenewstalkers.com/tig/group_discuss/26030/uk-mp-edward-davey-calls-trump-no-leader-of-the-free-world http://thenewstalkers.com/tig/group_discuss/26030 Thu, 16 Apr 2026 11:51:18 -0400 http://thenewstalkers.com/tig/group_discuss/25973/cal-poly-regulatory-study-new-study-finds-napa-wine-grape-growers-face-up-to-1700-per-acre-in-regulatory-costs-wine-industr http://thenewstalkers.com/freewill/group_discuss/25973 With all the other market pressures on the wine industry at present, the regulatory burden stands out more now than ever before.  Certainly it can be argued that some regulations are necessary, but having worked in the industry for over 40 years, one gets the real inside story from the growers, the winemakers, and the winery owners.  Much of it is excessive overreach that stifles business, especially small business. 
I am looking forward to Cal Poly's other reports documenting the regulatory costs with respect to wine production as well as the regulatory cost associated with starting a new vineyard, coming up this summer.]]> Mon, 06 Apr 2026 18:44:55 -0400 http://thenewstalkers.com/tig/group_discuss/25674/impeaching-trump-revisited-he-has-not-changed http://thenewstalkers.com/tig/group_discuss/25674 Mon, 02 Mar 2026 08:26:36 -0500 http://thenewstalkers.com/tig/group_discuss/25655/ev-battery-recycling-is-getting-ready-to-take-off http://thenewstalkers.com/freewill/group_discuss/25655 1.   What are the environmental impacts of the recycling process, say relative to the mining of Lithium and other metals needed to make new batteries in the first place?
2.   The article expands on the potential profits to be made in this recycling endeavor, but at what cost to consumers or taxpayers, and will recycling remain considerably more expensive than other means of discarding the spent batteries, requiring then force to ensure compliance?
Let's discuss.]]> Thu, 26 Feb 2026 16:24:15 -0500 http://thenewstalkers.com/tig/group_discuss/25442/video-analyses-at-odds-with-dhs-statements-on-minneapolis-shooting-factcheckorg http://thenewstalkers.com/tig/group_discuss/25442 Mon, 26 Jan 2026 19:57:32 -0500 http://thenewstalkers.com/tig/group_discuss/25369/trump-accepts-machados-nobel-peace-prize http://thenewstalkers.com/tig/group_discuss/25369 I have been waiting for confirmation that this nutcase actually accepted it.   I had no doubt that he would.]]> Thu, 15 Jan 2026 23:59:04 -0500 http://thenewstalkers.com/tig/group_discuss/25340/what-are-the-rules-for-officers-shooting-at-a-moving-vehicle-ap-news http://thenewstalkers.com/tig/group_discuss/25340 Sat, 10 Jan 2026 11:17:11 -0500 http://thenewstalkers.com/tig/group_discuss/25324/trump-drops-confession-amid-venezuela-invasion http://thenewstalkers.com/tig/group_discuss/25324 This is truly pathetic to watch because they have known all along what an abysmal human being Trump is and yet have become the very sycophants they warned against.]]> Wed, 07 Jan 2026 19:08:56 -0500 http://thenewstalkers.com/tig/group_discuss/25278/trump-issues-first-second-term-vetoes-for-colorado-water-project-and-florida-tribal-measure-reuters http://thenewstalkers.com/tig/group_discuss/25278 Wed, 31 Dec 2025 01:10:08 -0500 http://thenewstalkers.com/tig/group_discuss/25187/professor-jeffrey-sachs-on-donald-trumps-60-minutes-interview-every-lie-explained http://thenewstalkers.com/tig/group_discuss/25187 Sun, 14 Dec 2025 14:04:36 -0500 http://thenewstalkers.com/tig/group_discuss/25181/im-a-us-citizen-and-a-veteran-ice-arrested-me-for-no-reason http://thenewstalkers.com/tig/group_discuss/25181 This is just one example, but it shows how out of control the Trump ICE initiative is.   Trump is a disaster.]]> Sat, 13 Dec 2025 21:39:27 -0500 http://thenewstalkers.com/tig/group_discuss/25110/no-trump-cant-cancel-or-terminate-pardons-issued-by-joe-biden-or-any-other-president http://thenewstalkers.com/tig/group_discuss/25110 Thu, 04 Dec 2025 19:55:21 -0500 http://thenewstalkers.com/tig/group_discuss/25097/trump-pardons-texas-democratic-rep-henry-cuellar-ap-news http://thenewstalkers.com/tig/group_discuss/25097 He preempts the judicial process.
There is a pattern of Trump giving legal breaks to those who have done (or are accused of doing) what he has done his entire life.
This is sick.]]> Wed, 03 Dec 2025 11:20:40 -0500 http://thenewstalkers.com/tig/group_discuss/25093/trump-is-trying-to-silence-me-sen-mark-kelly-speaks-out-about-trump-and-hegseths-threats http://thenewstalkers.com/tig/group_discuss/25093 Tue, 02 Dec 2025 20:51:18 -0500 http://thenewstalkers.com/tig/group_discuss/25085/trump-releases-fraudster-executive-days-into-prison-sentence http://thenewstalkers.com/tig/group_discuss/25085 How does a Trump supporter live with the fact that they are supporting and defending a criminal who is abusing his power and reversing justice for his fellow criminals?]]> Mon, 01 Dec 2025 18:49:48 -0500 http://thenewstalkers.com/tig/group_discuss/24928/after-pardoning-the-boots-of-the-insurrection-trump-pardons-the-suits-of-the-insurrection http://thenewstalkers.com/tig/group_discuss/24928 Mon, 10 Nov 2025 23:10:16 -0500 http://thenewstalkers.com/tig/group_discuss/24854/trump-caught-in-insane-new-scandal-at-mar-a-lago http://thenewstalkers.com/tig/group_discuss/24854 Sun, 02 Nov 2025 19:42:29 -0500 http://thenewstalkers.com/tig/group_discuss/24806/trump-voters-get-nightmare-news-in-deep-red-state http://thenewstalkers.com/tig/group_discuss/24806 Mon, 27 Oct 2025 19:59:32 -0400 http://thenewstalkers.com/tig/group_discuss/24776/us-hits-38-trillion-in-gross-national-debt-ap-news http://thenewstalkers.com/tig/group_discuss/24776 Now 'Republicans' cheer on an irresponsible buffoon who imposes a consumption tax, fires thousands of government workers, and still manages to oversee $38 trillion in national debt.
Those who support Trump for policy reasons in spite of his many flaws apparently no longer care about fiscal responsibility along with a lack of concern about how Trump trashes on the rule of law and the CotUS.]]> Thu, 23 Oct 2025 23:40:13 -0400 http://thenewstalkers.com/tig/group_discuss/24528/the-dawn-of-the-post-literate-society-by-james-marriott http://thenewstalkers.com/thomas/group_discuss/24528 As an extreme example think of somebody trying to simply speak a famous work of philosophy. Say, Kant's 900-page The Critique of Pure Reason or Ludwig Wittgenstein's Tractatus or Sartre's Being and Nothingness. It would be impossible to do. And also impossible to listen to.


To produce his great work Kant had write to down his ideas, scratch them out, think about them, refine them and then rework them over many years so they added up into a persuasive and logical whole.

To properly understand the book you have to be able to have it in front of you so you can re-read bits you don't understand, check logical connections and meditate on important passages until you really take them in. This kind of advanced thinking is inseparable from reading and writing.

The classicist Eric Havelock argued that the arrival of literacy in ancient Greece was the catalyst for the birth of philosophy. Once people had a means of pinning ideas down on the page to interrogate them, refine them and build on them, a whole new revolutionary way of analytic and abstract thinking was born — one that would go on to shape our entire civilisation3. With the birth of writing received ways of thinking could be challenged and improved. This was our species' cognitive liberation.]]> Sat, 27 Sep 2025 10:57:40 -0400 http://thenewstalkers.com/tig/group_discuss/24492/trump-and-zelenskyy-meet-at-the-un http://thenewstalkers.com/tig/group_discuss/24492 While I am pleased with this new position, I have no confidence in Trump executing properly or even sticking with this strategy.
We can hope, I suppose.]]> Tue, 23 Sep 2025 17:07:52 -0400 http://thenewstalkers.com/tig/group_discuss/23355/iea-report-reveals-more-than-1-in-4-cars-sold-worldwide-in-2025-are-set-to-be-electric-ecm http://thenewstalkers.com/freewill/group_discuss/23355 Tue, 20 May 2025 16:41:14 -0400 http://thenewstalkers.com/tig/group_discuss/23324/trump-endorses-raising-taxes-on-rich http://thenewstalkers.com/freewill/group_discuss/23324 Tue, 13 May 2025 15:30:10 -0400 http://thenewstalkers.com/tig/group_discuss/23303/northern-district-of-california-napa-valley-winery-owner-pleads-guilty-to-aiding-and-assisting-in-filing-of-false-tax-return http://thenewstalkers.com/freewill/group_discuss/23303 Thu, 08 May 2025 18:40:21 -0400 http://thenewstalkers.com/tig/group_discuss/23277/trump-reveals-he-fell-for-ms-13-obvious-photoshop http://thenewstalkers.com/tig/group_discuss/23277 However, after what I have observed Trump do in his first 100 days, I think it is indeed possible that Trump is this stupid.]]> Sat, 03 May 2025 00:41:35 -0400 http://thenewstalkers.com/tig/group_discuss/23214/jeffrey-sachs-goes-off-roasts-donald-trumps-trade-talk-says-mickey-mouse-is-smarter-than-him http://thenewstalkers.com/tig/group_discuss/23214 Sat, 19 Apr 2025 02:14:47 -0400 http://thenewstalkers.com/tig/group_discuss/23212/letitia-james-could-face-jail-time-over-fraud-allegations-newsweek http://thenewstalkers.com/freewill/group_discuss/23212 Fri, 18 Apr 2025 22:00:01 -0400 http://thenewstalkers.com/tig/group_discuss/23185/trump-gets-restless-with-russia-on-ukraine-war-as-witkoff-visits-moscow-before-iran-meeting http://thenewstalkers.com/tig/group_discuss/23185 Fri, 11 Apr 2025 19:06:08 -0400 http://thenewstalkers.com/tig/group_discuss/23184/hes-an-economic-moron-scott-lucas-slams-trump-team-claim-tariff-pause-brilliant-master-plan http://thenewstalkers.com/tig/group_discuss/23184 Fri, 11 Apr 2025 15:36:03 -0400 http://thenewstalkers.com/tig/group_discuss/23170/lawrence-musk-called-navarro-a-moron-what-does-musk-think-of-trump-who-follows-navarros-advice http://thenewstalkers.com/tig/group_discuss/23170 Wed, 09 Apr 2025 11:49:24 -0400 http://thenewstalkers.com/tig/group_discuss/23168/could-not-be-more-stupid-scott-galloway-on-trumps-tariffs http://thenewstalkers.com/tig/group_discuss/23168 Tue, 08 Apr 2025 23:25:18 -0400 http://thenewstalkers.com/tig/group_discuss/23153/how-to-ruin-a-strong-economy http://thenewstalkers.com/tig/group_discuss/23153 I was asked this question: 
"If tariffs are so much of a tax on the people of the country initiating them, why is it that places like China, Japan, Vietnam and India flourished via the use of tariffs?"
This article addresses the false cause fallacy underlying this question.
Nations do not Grow Based on Tariffs

Tariffs —as Trump is using them— are the equivalent of a consumption tax.   Consumers pay the tariffs.   Worse, Trump is using tariffs as a weapon and our trade partners are reciprocating ... thus we have trade wars.   All unnecessary.
None of these nations (China, Japan, Vietnam and India) flourished via the use of tariffs.   That is a false assumption.
China flourished primarily due to foreign manufacturing making use of its cheap labor.   Their WTO compliance on reasonable, targeted tariffs increased their expansion.
Japan flourished because of its disciplined, excellent work culture, smart government, technological innovation, manufacturing efficiency, and a focus on selling to the world.
India flourished because it dramatically cut tariffs, and created a highly skilled workforce in IT and technical services, pharmaceuticals, and finance.   India is a great example of strategic planning and execution at the national level.
Vietnam is similar to China.   It flourished due to cheap labor driving manufacturing and massive exports.  

All four flourished in part because of their integration into the world supply chain and their fair operating under WTO guidelines.   All four also flourished because of smart government strategies which exploited their strengths.    And all four reduced their tariffs prior to seeing strong economic growth.
Why Manufacturing is Not Returning to the USA

The USA labor costs are the primary driver of manufacturing centers relocating across the planet.    The workers in Vietnam, China, etc. earn substantially less than USA workers yet are human beings fully capable of learning how to do the jobs required.   There is no need for manufacturing firms to pay high labor costs for USA workers.
And Trump cannot reverse this trend.   He thinks (possibly) that by imposing tariffs the manufacturing companies will magically relocate to the USA.   The only way manufacturing (barring some exceptions) will return to the USA is through the use of robotic technology.   Manufacturing operations that are conventional, human-labor-centric, will remain in nations whose labor costs are lower.   That is basic economics.
All tariffs will do is is raise consumer prices.  They will drive down consumption in the USA and thus our GDP.   Further, the damage Trump continues to do in terms of global trade will necessarily result in fewer exports from the USA and thus another hit on our GDP.   The list of potential bad effects here is sickening and it is all unnecessary.
The way the USA prospers is to be a powerhouse working in an open global trade environment.   We buy cheap goods for our purposes (manufacturing and personal) and then excel primarily on innovation and technological prowess.   We should, for example, focus critically on renewable energy both in terms of the technology and exporting the actual energy.   We will succeed by being the best in what the world needs most.   Energy is a fine example of that.  
That is the positive, growth-oriented, winning strategy.   Trump is operating as a retrograde protectionist; the opposite of a growth-oriented, winning strategy.   He is trying cut costs (but in a stupid fashion) and trying to force the USA to be isolated and entirely self-sufficient.   That is a perfect recipe for shrinking the GDP and opening the door for other nations to entirely displace the USA on the world economic stage.
Tariffs and Trade Imbalance

Finally, there is major confusion on the notion of trade imbalance.   Trump keeps claiming that the USA is being ripped off whenever we import more than we export to a country.   That is a false oversimplification.  There is nothing intrinsically wrong with a trade imbalance with an individual nation.   If consumers have a high demand for something that cannot be appropriately supplied domestically it makes good sense to enable consumers to buy imports.     It does indeed make sense for a nation like the USA to export more than it imports, but to deem a trade imbalance with a particular nation as them "ripping us off" is ridiculous.
The key problem with individual nations is not necessarily imbalance, but dependence.   A smart PotUS would focus not on balance with each individual trade partner but rather dependence upon them for critical items.   So it does not really matter that Canada is the largest supplier of crude to the USA, what matters is how dependent we are on them.   And Canada is not a problem.  China, however, is.   We have a critical dependence on China for certain rare Earth elements (among other things).   This is entirely unhealthy and our past presidents and congresses have let this problem fester.  
Instead of chasing an ill-conceived notion that a nation is ripping us off we should instead focus on developing domestic and foreign sources so that we are critically dependent on as few nations as possible.
And because of our dependence on China and the time it would take for us to become sufficiently independent, poking them gratuitously is stupidly counterproductive.]]> Sat, 05 Apr 2025 11:33:51 -0400 http://thenewstalkers.com/tig/group_discuss/23146/dire-news-dow-craters-sp-heads-for-worst-drop-in-two-years-amid-tariffs http://thenewstalkers.com/tig/group_discuss/23146 Thu, 03 Apr 2025 13:55:52 -0400 http://thenewstalkers.com/tig/group_discuss/23127/judges-block-trump-orders-targeting-law-firms http://thenewstalkers.com/tig/group_discuss/23127 Sat, 29 Mar 2025 22:35:57 -0400 http://thenewstalkers.com/tig/group_discuss/23125/two-more-law-firms-sue-trump-administration-to-block-presidential-orders-punishing-law-firms http://thenewstalkers.com/tig/group_discuss/23125 Fri, 28 Mar 2025 20:53:50 -0400 http://thenewstalkers.com/tig/group_discuss/23111/raskin-you-just-have-to-know-how-to-read-to-know-trump-is-blowing-past-the-us-constitution http://thenewstalkers.com/tig/group_discuss/23111 Sun, 23 Mar 2025 17:53:27 -0400 http://thenewstalkers.com/tig/group_discuss/23108/trump-revokes-security-clearance-for-kamala-harris-hillary-clinton-and-others http://thenewstalkers.com/tig/group_discuss/23108 Sat, 22 Mar 2025 12:12:34 -0400 http://thenewstalkers.com/tig/group_discuss/23095/ev-charger-rebate-trends-for-2025-ecm http://thenewstalkers.com/freewill/group_discuss/23095 Tue, 18 Mar 2025 15:15:19 -0400 http://thenewstalkers.com/tig/group_discuss/23090/trump-says-he-was-being-a-bit-sarcastic-when-he-promised-to-end-russia-ukraine-war-in-24-hours http://thenewstalkers.com/tig/group_discuss/23090 Given Trump routinely makes face-value-absurd claims, why does anyone believe him?
He clearly has no idea what he is doing with Ukraine.   Putin got Trump to publicly claim that Ukraine started the war and that has no doubt been playing continuously as propaganda on Russian media.   On top of that, they are playing the disastrous Oval Office fiasco where the PotUS declares Ukraine has lost the war.
Then Trump cuts off intelligence and arms to Ukraine (WTF??? of course) and Putin accordingly attacks.
Well played Putin, you have Trump dancing like a fool.   We Americans are all so proud!
How can anyone believe this buffoon has clue one about negotiating peace between Ukraine and Russia?
]]> Mon, 17 Mar 2025 21:23:47 -0400 http://thenewstalkers.com/tig/group_discuss/23082/trumps-super-power-over-putin http://thenewstalkers.com/tig/group_discuss/23082 Trump is presenting himself as some powerful figure who single-handedly prevented Putin from invading Ukraine.    He claims the Ukraine war would have never happened if he were PotUS at the time and as candidate bragged that he would end the war with a phone call (even as president-elect).
The reality is that Putin is the one controlling Trump.   Putin apparently has realized how to manipulate Trump with praise and likely promises of even greater power.   In result we see the PotUS doing something that no other PotUS has ever done ... trash an ally during a time of war and create propaganda for the invading adversary.   Russian media is no doubt showing 24x7 the PotUS declaring that Ukraine started the war, that Zelensky is a dictator with a 4% approval rating, that Zelensky is being unreasonable and disrespectful, and that Ukraine has already lost the war.
Then, to make things worse, Trump cuts off Ukraine's intelligence and halts aid to our ally.   (He later reversed himself ...)
What does it take for Trump supporters to realize that Trump is not only full of shit, but he is entirely incompetent.   He is wholly unfit for office in terms of character alone, but now further demonstrates that he is also incompetent and dangerous.
He has single-handedly:
created a trade war with China, Canada, Mexico, and the EU
abandoned our allies in the Ukraine war
damaged all international relationships since now the planet knows that whatever trust they gad in the integrity of the USA must be substantially reduced
triggered inflation rather than reduce prices (the key reason he was elected)
raised fears of a recession and disrupted a booming stock market

And that does not even get into the stupidity of renaming the Gulf of Mexico, trying to remove birthright citizenship (jus soli), threatening to take back the Panama canal, hacking up the federal government rather than carefully trimming the fat, etc.
So review this clip and see this lying sack of shit make grand claims and compare that with the reality of him behaving as Putin's useful idiot and violating the long-standing position of the USA as the reliable leader of the free world.
The contrast is sickening.


Transcript:
President Putin and I would talk about Ukraine. It was the apple of his eye, I will tell you that. But he never—there was never a chance of him going in, and I told him, "You better not go in. Don't go in. Don't go in." And he understood that. He understood it fully.

But I'm only interested—I want to see if I can save maybe millions of lives. This could even end up in a World War III. I mean, to be honest with you, you've been hearing—now Europe is saying, "Well, I think we're going to go in, and we're going to go."
All of a sudden, you're going to end up in World War III over something that should have never happened.]]> Fri, 14 Mar 2025 15:40:14 -0400 http://thenewstalkers.com/tig/group_discuss/23063/trump-tariffs-canadian-steel-aluminum-duties-will-soar-to-50 http://thenewstalkers.com/tig/group_discuss/23063 Tue, 11 Mar 2025 10:52:22 -0400 http://thenewstalkers.com/tig/group_discuss/23060/i-hate-to-predict-things-trump-downplays-us-recession-fears-amid-trade-tariffs http://thenewstalkers.com/tig/group_discuss/23060 Unfortunately this is not Trump driving a casino into bankruptcy.   Because Trump supporters elected this buffoon, he has the power of the presidency and the ability to screw things up on a global level.
Which he is doing.]]> Tue, 11 Mar 2025 00:22:55 -0400 http://thenewstalkers.com/tig/group_discuss/23059/cowardice-and-cruelty-rubio-slammed-for-huge-mistake-that-will-dismantle-us-influence-alternetorg http://thenewstalkers.com/tig/group_discuss/23059 Mon, 10 Mar 2025 18:10:53 -0400 http://thenewstalkers.com/tig/group_discuss/23058/ontario-slaps-25-tax-increase-on-electricity-exports-to-us-in-response-to-trumps-trade-war http://thenewstalkers.com/tig/group_discuss/23058 Trump is fixing high prices by causing prices to rise.   And Trump supporters keep defending this buffoon.
Trump is doing a great job if the job is defined as fucking up.]]> Mon, 10 Mar 2025 14:41:16 -0400 http://thenewstalkers.com/tig/group_discuss/23056/about-the-first-seven-weeks-of-donald-trumps-presidency http://thenewstalkers.com/tig/group_discuss/23056 Mon, 10 Mar 2025 00:19:19 -0400 http://thenewstalkers.com/tig/group_discuss/23051/rubio-delivers-senate-floor-speech-on-the-crisis-in-ukraine http://thenewstalkers.com/tig/group_discuss/23051 The crisis here is the 2014 invasion of Crimea by Putin.]]> Thu, 06 Mar 2025 23:50:20 -0500 http://thenewstalkers.com/tig/group_discuss/22969/whoa-trump-officials-finally-turn-on-elon-musk http://thenewstalkers.com/tig/group_discuss/22969 Sun, 23 Feb 2025 23:51:25 -0500 http://thenewstalkers.com/tig/group_discuss/22941/fact-checking-donald-trumps-claims-about-war-in-ukraine http://thenewstalkers.com/tig/group_discuss/22941 It is worse, however, to witness USA citizens support this traitor.]]> Wed, 19 Feb 2025 17:31:34 -0500 http://thenewstalkers.com/tig/group_discuss/22935/trump-falsely-blames-ukraine-for-starting-war-with-russia-echoing-putins-talking-point http://thenewstalkers.com/tig/group_discuss/22935 The easiest way to end the war is to throw Ukraine under the bus and force them to capitulate.
But to blame Zelensky on top of all this is quintessential Trump.
Looks like Putin has Trump under control.]]> Wed, 19 Feb 2025 01:02:04 -0500 http://thenewstalkers.com/tig/group_discuss/22817/22-billion-gallons-of-water-flowed-out-of-california-reservoirs-because-of-trumps-order-to-open-dams http://thenewstalkers.com/tig/group_discuss/22817 Tue, 04 Feb 2025 18:26:06 -0500 http://thenewstalkers.com/tig/group_discuss/22808/china-counters-with-tariffs-on-us-products-it-will-also-investigate-google-ap-news http://thenewstalkers.com/tig/group_discuss/22808 Now it is our nation that is seen as the bad guys.   Brilliant choice Trump supporters.]]> Tue, 04 Feb 2025 01:08:11 -0500 http://thenewstalkers.com/tig/group_discuss/22804/tariffs http://thenewstalkers.com/tig/group_discuss/22804 Trade is a complex matter.   Simplifying it to say that we want balanced trade glosses over all the important factors.   Balance is a key concern when considering dependence on critical items.   A critical item is that which is necessary for our nation to function and would cripple our nation if the supply were to be interrupted.
We trade with other nations if they have items we cannot supply ourselves at the same or less cost.    If consumers can buy devices, clothes, etc. from China at better prices (or quality) than domestic suppliers, importing these items makes good economic sense for consumers.   Consumers get better value for their money.   More people can, for example, afford to buy and use computers and other intelligent devices.    (Trump can buy more inexpensive MAGA hats.)
The key problems with buying from a foreign nation are:
Dependence on the foreign nation for these items (or some volume of these items)
Growth:  helping foreign industries grow stronger rather than our own


Dependence

It is of great importance that we not be dependent on foreign nations for items of strategic importance.   We are, for example, already highly dependent on China for Gallium (underlying all computing, LEDs, ...) and Lithium (underlying most contemporary batteries).   (and much more)   Since we cannot realistically cover the demand domestically (especially with Gallium ... China produces 98% of the world's supply) we necessarily import these items and thus are dependent upon China.
This is where trade balance considerations are valid.   We need to counter our dependence on China with their being dependent on us.   This mitigates one nation trying to force the other to comply with some whim dreamed up by a tyrant.
Growth

The other key concern is the growth of industry.   We do not want to keep sending money to Chinese companies.   It is far better for the nation to support domestic industries when practical.   
Typically, tariffs have been used to help grow domestic industries when dealing with a strong foreign competitor.   The idea is to impose a tariff on items such as steel to give US Steel manufacturers a chance to strengthen themselves.   The tariff is not being used as some act of hostility or threat, but rather as a temporary tool to moderate trade to deal with a domestic industry weakness of strategic importance.
Abuse of Tariffs

Trump is not strategically imposing tariffs.   He is using tariffs as a weapon to reduce Fentanyl and other bad drugs from entering our nation and being abused by addicts.   And also because of his simplistic and wrong view of imbalance.   What makes matters worse is that Trump has not engaged in negotiations but rather made public, outrageous tariff threats as his opening move.   He has thus not only encouraged trade partners to reciprocate so as to not look weak on the world stage, but he has harmed relationships with all of our trading partners.
The key problem is not that substances such as Fentanyl pass our borders but that there is such a demand for it in the USA.   The problem is mostly domestic.   We need to focus on stopping the demand, not try to plug the many avenues by which bad products enter our nation.
By publicly using tariffs as a weapon, Trump stupidly opens the door for our trade partners to squeeze us on our dependencies.  In addition, he sours relationships and motivates trade partners to view the USA as hostile rather than as a trade ally.   Even after we get past this, Trump has soured international relationships for years to come since he has shown that the USA is capable of electing a tyrant who would irresponsibly and unreasonably abuse the power of the presidency against them.   The USA has immediately become less trustworthy and trade partners will naturally be far more guarded when dealing the the USA and will diversify more with other nations.
Prices and the Economy

On top of this, Trump's tariff idiocy will necessarily hit the consumer with higher prices.   In addition, the trade wars that have started will compound this due to a reduction in supply.   This can all very easily spiral into serious economic problems.   And all of this is an unforced error due to the USA irresponsibly electing an irresponsible, stubbornly stupid tyrant as president.


While China has been used for examples, note some of the key dependencies the USA has with China, Mexico, and Canada:
China:     rare Earth elements, smartphones, computers, pharmaceutical ingredients
Mexico:   automotive parts, fruits, vegetables, crude oil
Canada:  crude oil, natural gas, electricity, aluminum, lumber, grains, meats, dairy products
Trump seems to think the USA can simply demand and other nations have no means to reciprocate.   He is dangerously wrong.]]> Mon, 03 Feb 2025 12:51:07 -0500 http://thenewstalkers.com/tig/group_discuss/22716/irresponsible-and-vindictive http://thenewstalkers.com/tig/group_discuss/22716 Boltons Security Gone
Pompeos Security Gone
Faucis Security Gone
It was irresponsible, irrational, and unpatriotic to vote for this asshole to be PotUS.
Trump is, as predicted (easily), using the power of the presidency to satisfy his whims rather than take the office as a solemn duty and responsibility to do what is best for the people. ]]> Fri, 24 Jan 2025 12:27:49 -0500 http://thenewstalkers.com/tig/group_discuss/22570/lots-of-demand-too-little-grid-the-state-of-the-us-canary-media http://thenewstalkers.com/freewill/group_discuss/22570 One noticeable omission from this article is any mention of the use of SMR's and other modern nuclear technology to help fill the gaps.  To me that is a no-brainer in the shorter term along with investing in the development of fusion energy longer term.
Another surprise I see in this article, and this might just be because of a lack of communication from the CEC and the California Utilities, but some of the fastest growing EV and data center loads are all up and down California.  I would have thought those areas would have been more thoroughly covered in such an article as I know for a fact that we lack adequate generation and to a lesser extent distribution in this State.]]> Mon, 06 Jan 2025 21:49:29 -0500 http://thenewstalkers.com/tig/group_discuss/22450/trump-says-european-union-must-buy-us-oil-and-gas-in-trade-ultimatum http://thenewstalkers.com/tig/group_discuss/22450 Sat, 21 Dec 2024 01:19:41 -0500 http://thenewstalkers.com/tig/group_discuss/22445/commonwealth-fusion-systems-to-build-worlds-first-commercial-fusion-power-plant-in-virginia http://thenewstalkers.com/freewill/group_discuss/22445 Fri, 20 Dec 2024 18:52:35 -0500 http://thenewstalkers.com/tig/group_discuss/22298/patrick-harvie-slams-john-swinney-for-congratulating-misogynist-racist-president-trump http://thenewstalkers.com/tig/group_discuss/22298 Trump continues to make history —in bad ways— for the USA.
Trump support is irrational, irresponsible, and unpatriotic. ]]> Wed, 04 Dec 2024 00:07:49 -0500 http://thenewstalkers.com/tig/group_discuss/22217/us-embassy-shut-as-ukraine-braces-for-possible-retaliation-after-firing-long-range-us-missiles-into-russia-cbs-news http://thenewstalkers.com/freewill/group_discuss/22217 Fri, 22 Nov 2024 01:13:07 -0500 http://thenewstalkers.com/tig/group_discuss/22180/what-specifically-will-trump-do-to-fix-the-economy http://thenewstalkers.com/tig/group_discuss/22180 However, in 2024 the economy is in great shape.    Two key lingering problems are prices and interest rates.   High prices were triggered mostly by the pandemic.  They spiked due to supply chain issues and suppliers using the pandemic as an excuse to raise prices.   There are still suppliers who are charging artificially inflated prices but the market will take care of those naturally.   Other than that, prices will always rise over time unless inflation was 0%.   High interest rates are lowering naturally and these are a function of the Fed, not the PotUS.   The factors influencing the decisions to raise or lower interest rates are largely out of the control of a PotUS.
So outside of prices and interest rates, let's look at the state of our economy.   The GDP is growing and healthy.   Wages are in good shape.   Unemployment is at a normal rate.   Inflation is at a normal rate.   We are a net exporter of fossil fuel energy.   We are exporting record levels of domestic crude.  
So what, specifically, is Trump going to 'fix' in our economy?
Is Trump going to make the stock market continue to break record highs?  
Is Trump going to magically reduce consumer prices?  
Is Trump going to actually fund his programs from excessive tariffs ... and, on top of that, not spike consumer prices?
The PotUS does not control the economy;  we have a market economy.   That means prices (among other factors) are a function of supply and demand.   The PotUS cannot magically make prices across the board reduce but that is apparently what the electorate believes he can do.
So what is wrong with the economy and the direction it is moving right now and, if you identify what is wrong, how exactly do you think Trump will 'fix' it?]]> Sat, 16 Nov 2024 12:54:28 -0500 http://thenewstalkers.com/tig/group_discuss/22039/after-trumps-attack-on-cheney-america-is-now-on-notice-says-retired-republican-judge http://thenewstalkers.com/tig/group_discuss/22039 Fri, 01 Nov 2024 11:43:44 -0400 http://thenewstalkers.com/tig/group_discuss/22014/a-special-monologue-for-the-republican-in-your-life http://thenewstalkers.com/tig/group_discuss/22014 Wed, 30 Oct 2024 00:19:25 -0400 http://thenewstalkers.com/tig/group_discuss/21998/allan-lichtman-prophet-of-presidential-elections-says-trump-is-underestimating-democratic-votes http://thenewstalkers.com/tig/group_discuss/21998 Mon, 28 Oct 2024 11:28:11 -0400 http://thenewstalkers.com/tig/group_discuss/21992/premature-capitulation-wapo-editor-robert-kagan-resigns-in-protest http://thenewstalkers.com/tig/group_discuss/21992 Another element contributing to the claim of Trump being a fascist.]]> Sun, 27 Oct 2024 23:15:51 -0400 http://thenewstalkers.com/tig/group_discuss/21987/opinion-trumps-ideas-would-stunt-us-growth-and-spur-inflation-the-washington-post http://thenewstalkers.com/tig/group_discuss/21987 Here is the accompanying video (better than the article):
]]> Sun, 27 Oct 2024 11:35:23 -0400 http://thenewstalkers.com/tig/group_discuss/21985/mcconnell-says-maga-movement-is-completely-wrong http://thenewstalkers.com/tig/group_discuss/21985 It is madness.]]> Sun, 27 Oct 2024 00:28:20 -0400 http://thenewstalkers.com/tig/group_discuss/21980/washington-post-editor-at-large-resigns-over-bezos-decision http://thenewstalkers.com/tig/group_discuss/21980 Trump can intimidate Bezos with the power of the presidency.   What is the limit here?]]> Sat, 26 Oct 2024 00:39:33 -0400 http://thenewstalkers.com/tig/group_discuss/21976/the-sad-pathetic-spectacle-of-john-kellys-critics http://thenewstalkers.com/tig/group_discuss/21976 Fri, 25 Oct 2024 13:36:23 -0400 http://thenewstalkers.com/tig/group_discuss/21737/trump-growing-stranger-and-more-dangeous http://thenewstalkers.com/tig/group_discuss/21737 First let's look at the trivial bullshit that occupies this guy's mind:

Not only is this absurd behavior for a presidential nominee, but Trump —the most prolific, famous liar of our times— is trying to make a big deal out of the fact that Harris did not list McDonald's on her professional resume.   This pathological liar is accusing Harris of lying about her resume when he daily makes up outrageous and damaging lies of consequence.
Now let's go to the other extreme and see how rhetoric from the loose-cannon is dangerous and reckless:

And this:




How does anyone consider this guy fit for office?]]> Thu, 26 Sep 2024 00:58:00 -0400 http://thenewstalkers.com/tig/group_discuss/21711/biden-justice-department-in-filing-in-federal-court-sides-with-the-un-against-victims-of-october-7-the-new-york-sun http://thenewstalkers.com/freewill/group_discuss/21711 Seems to me that the "Justice Department" has just become a gross misnomer.]]> Mon, 23 Sep 2024 19:49:23 -0400 http://thenewstalkers.com/tig/group_discuss/21682/more-than-half-of-trump-voters-believe-haitians-are-eating-pets-poll-newsweek http://thenewstalkers.com/tig/group_discuss/21682 Thu, 19 Sep 2024 19:36:25 -0400 http://thenewstalkers.com/tig/group_discuss/21672/over-100-former-gop-officials-endorsed-harris-today http://thenewstalkers.com/tig/group_discuss/21672 Thu, 19 Sep 2024 00:49:25 -0400 http://thenewstalkers.com/tig/group_discuss/21604/republican-karl-rove-says-trumps-got-crushed-by-a-woman-he-called-dumb-as-a-rock-during-train-wreck-debate-the-independen http://thenewstalkers.com/tig/group_discuss/21604 Fri, 13 Sep 2024 02:04:28 -0400 http://thenewstalkers.com/tig/group_discuss/21503/jimmy-kimmel-recaps-all-the-crazy-stuff-donald-trump-did-over-the-summer http://thenewstalkers.com/tig/group_discuss/21503 Wed, 04 Sep 2024 01:12:35 -0400 http://thenewstalkers.com/tig/group_discuss/21478/harris-vs-pence-the-2020-vice-presidential-debate http://thenewstalkers.com/tig/group_discuss/21478 Trump is nowhere close to Pence in debate skills.  He will not have facts, he will simply make up his own facts (lies) during the debate.   He will be his usual loose-cannon self, rambling all over the place and will not have the presidential demeanor that both Pence and Harris exhibited in this debate.]]> Fri, 30 Aug 2024 21:14:36 -0400 http://thenewstalkers.com/tig/group_discuss/21470/trump-criticizes-harris-for-a-joint-interview-with-walz http://thenewstalkers.com/tig/group_discuss/21470 Trump Disparaging Harris
But, of course, Biden held a joint press conference with Harris.
And worse, for Trump, this is exactly what he did in 2016.

As did presidents before him.
This guy is so full of shit.  Every day he steps in it yet people keep supporting him.   
]]> Fri, 30 Aug 2024 00:27:47 -0400 http://thenewstalkers.com/tig/group_discuss/21458/kamala-harris-trump-attack-ad-should-be-the-end-of-trump http://thenewstalkers.com/tig/group_discuss/21458 Thu, 29 Aug 2024 02:05:34 -0400 http://thenewstalkers.com/tig/group_discuss/21351/we-fact-checked-trumps-recent-news-conference-npr http://thenewstalkers.com/tig/group_discuss/21351 Sun, 18 Aug 2024 13:09:06 -0400 http://thenewstalkers.com/tig/group_discuss/21304/uaw-hits-trump-musk-with-federal-labor-charges-over-union-busting-remarks http://thenewstalkers.com/tig/group_discuss/21304 Tue, 13 Aug 2024 13:45:14 -0400 http://thenewstalkers.com/tig/group_discuss/21098/fit-vs-unfit http://thenewstalkers.com/tig/group_discuss/21098 Trump is a scoundrel.   He is a vindictive narcissist holding the distinction as the only PotUS in US history who has attempted to steal a US presidential election through fraud, coercion, lying, and incitement.  He is a lifelong con-artist whose wealth is a result of lying and cheating.   As PotUS he would again abuse the powers of the office to suit his personal wishes rather than those of the nation.   This is an individual who, under normal circumstances, would never be considered for a position of political power.   Yet, inexplicably, Trump has managed to become a GOP demagogue — a cult leader for a lost party that is in part too timid to stand against a very bad actor and in other cases too gullible to recognize they are being taken for suckers.
Harris is no Obama in terms of charisma and likeability.   She is not going to charm her way to victory.   And while she would make history as the first black female PotUS, those very characteristics also carry negative bias.   Electing a female PotUS would be a major historical step for our nation but I am not sure Harris has the inspirational qualities to overcome the bias.
Nonetheless, Harris is an accomplished professional.   She is an attorney who was a prosecutor in San Francisco, then later become the DA of San Francisco — the first black woman in California to be elected DA.   After that, she was twice elected as the Attorney General for the state of California — the first woman to be elected to that office.   Then she was elected to the Senate — the first woman of color to be elected to the Senate for California.  Finally she was elected to serve as VP for Biden — the first female VP in our history.
On one hand we have a decent human being who will, as much as we can expect from any politician, work for the American people.   And she is 59 years of age.
On the other hand we have a miserable human being with abysmal character who has proven beyond any reasonable doubt that he will abuse whatever power and privileges afforded him to serve his desires.  At 78, if elected, Trump would be the oldest person ever to be elected PotUS (beating Biden's 2020 record by 5 months).
The Ds will offer a nominee who is fit for office.   One who can behave presidential and serve as a rational face and voice for our nation.  
The Rs offer a nominee who is arguably the most unfit nominee for a major party in our history.   A loose-cannon who is a national embarrassment.
One person will be elected PotUS in 2024.   Will it be the one fit to serve or the one demonstrably unfit to serve?]]> Sun, 21 Jul 2024 21:57:22 -0400 http://thenewstalkers.com/tig/group_discuss/20988/supreme-court-gives-trump-blueprint-for-dictatorship-ruling-the-constitution-is-unconstitutional http://thenewstalkers.com/tig/group_discuss/20988 The SCotuS Contradicts the CotUS and Gives a Rogue PotUS Dangerous Powers.]]> Wed, 10 Jul 2024 17:45:44 -0400 http://thenewstalkers.com/tig/group_discuss/20919/judicial-activism-in-2024 http://thenewstalkers.com/tig/group_discuss/20919
SCotUS Ruling
The Ruling

This case originated from a request late in 2023 by Jack Smith for the SCotUS to preemptively rule on the then ridiculous claim that Trump had total immunity from future criminal prosecution in his role as PotUS.   After much delay and ruling by lower courts that no such immunity exists in the CotUS, the SCotUS finally took the case and now after several more months of delay has granted Trump the immunity to ensure he is not held accountable for his actions while PotUS.
Justice Sotomayor’s candid dissent encapsulates the Trump indictment considered by the SCotUS in its ruling:
The indictment paints a stark portrait of a President desperate to stay in power.  In the weeks leading up to January 6, 2021, then-President Trump allegedly “spread lies that there had been outcome-determinative fraud in the election and that he had actually won,” App. 181, Indictment ¶2, despite being “notified repeatedly” by his closest advisers “that his claims were untrue,” id ., at 188, ¶11.  When dozens of courts swiftly rejected these claims, Trump allegedly “pushed officials in certain states to ignore the popular vote; disenfranchise millions of voters; dismiss legitimate electors; and ultimately, cause the ascertainment of and voting by illegitimate electors” in his favor. Id ., at 185–186, ¶10(a). It is alleged that he went so far as to threaten one state election official with criminal prosecution if the official did not “‘find’ 11,780 votes” Trump needed to change the election result in that state. Id ., at 202, ¶31(f ). When state officials repeatedly declined to act outside their legal authority and alter their state election processes, Trump and his co-conspirators purportedly developed a plan to disrupt and displace the legitimate election certification process by organizing fraudulent slates of electors . See id ., at 208–209, ¶¶53–54.

As the date of the certification proceeding neared, Trump allegedly also sought to “use the power and authority of the Justice Department” to bolster his knowingly false claims of election fraud by initiating “sham election crime investigations” and sending official letters “falsely claim[ing] that the Justice Department had identified significant concerns that may have impacted the election outcome” while“falsely present[ing] the fraudulent electors as a valid alter­native to the legitimate electors.” Id ., at 186–187, ¶10(c).  When the Department refused to do as he asked, Trump turned to the Vice President. Initially, he sought to persuade the Vice President “to use his ceremonial role at the January 6 certification proceeding to fraudulently alter the election results.” I d ., at 187, ¶10(d). When persuasion failed, he purportedly “attempted to use a crowd of supporters that he had gathered in Washington, D. C., to pressure the Vice President to fraudulently alter the election re­sults.” Id ., at 221, ¶86.
Speaking to that crowd on January 6, Trump “falsely claimed that, based on fraud, the Vice President could alter the outcome of the election results.” Id ., at 229, ¶104(a). When this crowd then “violently attacked the Capitol and halted the proceeding,” id ., at 188, ¶10(e), Trump allegedly delayed in taking any step to rein in the chaos he had unleashed. Instead, in a last desperate ploy to hold on to power, he allegedly “attempted to exploit the violence and chaos at the Capitol” by pressuring lawmakers to delay the certification of the election and ultimately declare him the winner. Id ., at 233, ¶119. That is the backdrop against which this case comes to the Court.

On this, the SCotuS was expected to deliver a ruling that would take one of three possible approaches:
Rule that a PotUS does NOT, per the CotUS, have absolute immunity from criminal acts committed while PotUS.   Let the courts decide each case on its own merits.
Carve out a constitutionally supported rule / test identifying when a PotUS is immune from criminal acts due to the necessity to act as PotUS.  
Rule that a PotUS DOES have absolute immunity and is thus above the law.

Most people expected the SCotUS to exercise 2.    The SCotUS instead went fully to approach 3;  a ruling that most dismissed as unthinkable.   They created out of whole cloth a notion of presidential immunity that contradicts the fundamentals of our constitution ... the notion that no man is above the law.
Unqualified immunity allows immunity regardless of the specific circumstances.   But justices cannot foresee every situation where a PotUS acts and categorically deem them all immune from prosecution.  This is why we have trials.  Trials apply the specific circumstances of a case to extant laws and precedents.  
For a PotUS, the first course of action is impeachment.   This is the constitutional mechanism for stripping a rogue PotUS from power.   Beyond that, there is nothing in the CotUS that states that a PotUS is above the law.   Indeed the CotUS weighs in on legal consequences beyond impeachment:
Article 1 §3 clause 7 Judgment in Cases of Impeachment shall not extend further than to removal from Office, and disqualification to hold and enjoy any Office of honor, Trust or Profit under the United States: but the Party convicted shall nevertheless be liable and subject to Indictment, Trial, Judgment and Punishment, according to Law .

The CotUS does not hold that the PotUS is above the law, it holds the opposite.   The SCotUS has ignored both text and principles of our Constitution to fundamentally change the limitations imposed on a PotUS:
Today’s decision to grant former Presidents criminal immunity reshapes the institution of the Presidency . It makes a mockery of the principle, foundational to our Constitution and system of Government, that no man is above the law.   Relying on little more than its own misguided wisdom about the need for “bold and unhesitating action” by the Presi­dent, ante, at 3, 13, the Court gives former President Trump all the immunity he asked for and more. Because our Con­stitution does not shield a former President from answering for criminal and treasonous acts , I dissent.  —JUSTICE SOTOMAYOR

The SCotUS now states that a PotUS has absolute immunity for anything he or she does as part of their "core constitutional" duties.   This is a new term that apparently means any act that follows the undisputed constitutional powers enjoyed by a PotUS.   For example, authorizing the killing of Osama Bin Laden would be considered a "core constitutional" duty and the PotUS would be immune from prosecution for "murder".    But since "core constitutional" is undefined this also applies to misuse of power such as using an executive order to gun down illegal immigrants who illegally cross our border.    And, in Trump's case, this could excuse his subornation of his V.P. to table certified votes from states under the notion that the PotUS 'believes' they are the result of fraud.   
Beyond this broad, vague umbrella of immunity, the SCotUS also invented (again out of whole cloth) a notion of "presumptive immunity".   This states that a PotUS is presumed to be immune from prosecution for any official act.    So if a PotUS can argue that what they did was an official act (vs. a private/personal act) the PotUS is presumed to be immune from prosecution.   This would excuse Trump from sitting on his thumbs (failing to act) while his supporters violently entered the Capitol to disrupt a session of Congress that was certifying the election.   His official act (in this case inaction) was to allow this to play out without any intervention from the executive branch.
Going even further, the SCotUS ruled that any evidence of intent based on official acts by a PotUS cannot be used in a court of law.   
Justice Barrett (who agreed with the majority) offered her dissent on this point:
Consider a bribery prosecution—a charge not at issue here but one that provides a useful example. The federal bribery statute for­bids any public official to seek or accept a thing of value “for or because of any official act.” 18 U. S. C. §201(c). The Con­stitution, of course, does not authorize a President to seek or accept bribes, so the Government may prosecute him if he does so. See Art. II, §4 (listing “Bribery” as an impeach­able offense); see also Memorandum from L. Silberman, Deputy Atty. Gen., to R. Burress, Office of the President, Re: Conflict of Interest Problems Arising Out of the Presi­dent’s Nomination of Nelson A. Rockefeller To Be Vice Pres­ident Under the Twenty-Fifth Amendment to the Constitu­tion 5 (Aug. 28, 1974) (suggesting that the federal bribery statute applies to the President). Yet excluding from trial any mention of the official act connected to the bribe would hamstring the prosecution. To make sense of charges alleg­ing a quid pro quo , the jury must be allowed to hear about both the quid and the quo , even if the quo , standing alone, could not be a basis for the President’s criminal liability. I appreciate the Court’s concern that allowing into evi­dence official acts for which the President cannot be held criminally liable may prejudice the jury. Ante , at 31. But the rules of evidence are equipped to handle that concern on a case-by-case basis. Most importantly, a trial court can exclude evidence of the President’s protected conduct “if its probative value is substantially outweighed by a danger of . . . unfair prejudice” or “confusing the issues.” Fed. Rule Evid. 403; see also Rule 105 (requiring the court to “restrict the evidence to its proper scope and instruct the jury ac­cordingly”). The balance is more likely to favor admitting evidence of an official act in a bribery prosecution, for in­stance, than one in which the protected conduct has little connection to the charged offense. And if the evidence comes in, the trial court can instruct the jury to consider it only for lawful purposes. See Richardson v. Marsh , 481 U. S. 200, 206–207 (1987). I see no need to depart from that familiar and time-tested procedure here.

Justice Sotomayor offers this scenario:
Imagine a President states in an official speech that he intends to stop a political rival from passing legis­lation that he opposes, no matter what it takes to do so (of­ficial act). He then hires a private hitman to murder that political rival (unofficial act). Under the majority’s rule, the murder indictment could include no allegation of the Presi­dent’s public admission of premeditated intent to support the mens rea of murder .

The SCotUS acknowledges that a non-official act (e.g. raping someone while PotUS) does not have immunity.   So they left that at least.
Trump as PotUS would be dangerous under the constraints that were true for all prior presidents.   We now face the real possibility that a vindictive, loose-cannon narcissist will have the powers of the presidency along with broad immunity from criminal prosecution.    The SCotUS just handed a loaded gun to Trump and any other future PotUS who cannot be trusted.


 Applying the Ruling to Trump

Let us see how this ruling manifests in the Trump case.   From Chief Justice Roberts' delivery of the court opinion:
(i) The indictment alleges that as part of their conspiracy to overturn the legitimate results of the 2020 presidential election, Trump and his co-conspirators attempted to leverage the Justice De­partment’s power and authority to convince certain States to replace their legitimate electors with Trump’s fraudulent slates of electors. According to the indictment, Trump met with the Acting Attorney General and other senior Justice Department and White House offi­cials to discuss investigating purported election fraud and sending a letter from the Department to those States regarding such fraud . The indictment further alleges that after the Acting Attorney General re­sisted Trump’s requests, Trump repeatedly threatened to replace him . The Government does not dispute that the indictment’s allegations regarding the Justice Department involve Trump’s use of official power. The allegations in fact plainly implicate Trump’s “conclusive and preclusive” authority. The Executive Branch has “exclusive au­thority and absolute discretion” to decide which crimes to investigate and prosecute, including with respect to allegations of election crime. Nixon, 418 U. S., at 693. And the President’s “management of the Ex­ecutive Branch” requires him to have “unrestricted power to remove the most important of his subordinates”—such as the Attorney Gen­eral—“in their most important duties.” Fitzgerald, 457 U. S., at 750. The indictment’s allegations that the requested investigations were shams or proposed for an improper purpose do not divest the President of exclusive authority over the investigative and prosecutorial func­tions of the Justice Department and its officials. Because the Presi­dent cannot be prosecuted for conduct within his exclusive constitu­tional authority, Trump is absolutely immune from prosecution for the alleged conduct involving his discussions with Justice Department of­ficials. Pp. 19–21.

Go ahead and corruptly abuse the DoJ.   As PotUS you can do as you please with the DoJ and rest assured that you cannot be held criminally liable for even gross abuse.
(ii) The indictment next alleges that Trump and his co-conspira­tors “attempted to enlist the Vice President to use his ceremonial role at the January 6 certification proceeding to fraudulently alter the elec­tion results.” App. 187, Indictment ¶10(d). In particular, the indict­ment alleges several conversations in which Trump pressured the Vice President to reject States’ legitimate electoral votes or send them back to state legislatures for review. Whenever the President and Vice President discuss their official re­sponsibilities, they engage in official conduct. Presiding over the Jan­uary 6 certification proceeding at which Members of Congress count the electoral votes is a constitutional and statutory duty of the VicePresident. Art. II, §1, cl. 3; Amdt. 12; 3 U. S. C. §15. The indictment’s allegations that Trump attempted to pressure the Vice President to take particular acts in connection with his role at the certification pro­ceeding thus involve official conduct, and Trump is at least presump­tively immune from prosecution for such conduc t.

You can suborn Pence to engage in an unconstitutional act and/or an illegal scheme to steal an election through fraud.    And do not worry, none of this can even be offered as evidence in a trial.
The question then becomes whether that presumption of immunity is rebutted under the circumstances. It is the Government’s burden to rebut the presumption of immunity. The Court therefore remands to the District Court to assess in the first instance whether a prosecution involving Trump’s alleged attempts to influence the Vice President’s oversight of the certification proceeding would pose any dangers of in­trusion on the authority and functions of the Executive Branch. Pp.21–24.

Good luck trying to pierce this barrier we have constructed.   You will have to prove that your prosecution would not have any ill effects on the Executive branch.   Yes, of course, when the Executive Branch engages in wrongdoing any exposure of same will pose a danger of intrusion but that is your problem.
(iii) The indictment’s remaining allegations involve Trump’s in­teractions with persons outside the Executive Branch: state officials, private parties, and the general public. In particular, the indictment alleges that Trump and his co-conspirators attempted to convince cer­tain state officials that election fraud had tainted the popular vote count in their States, and thus electoral votes for Trump’s opponent needed to be changed to electoral votes for Trump. After Trump failed to convince those officials to alter their state processes, he and his co-conspirators allegedly developed and effectuated a plan to submit fraudulent slates of Presidential electors to obstruct the certification proceeding. On Trump’s view, the alleged conduct qualifies as official because it was undertaken to ensure the integrity and proper admin­istration of the federal election. As the Government sees it, however, Trump can point to no plausible source of authority enabling the Pres­ident to take such actions. Determining whose characterization may be correct, and with respect to which conduct, requires a fact-specific analysis of the indictment’s extensive and interrelated allegations.  The Court accordingly remands to the District Court to determine in the first instance whether Trump’s conduct in this area qualifies as official or unofficial . Pp. 24–28.

You can now determine if Trump's fraudulent electors was conceived as an official or unofficial duty.   If you find that this is official, remember that this can be appealed and we will likely hear the appeal.
(iv) The indictment also contains various allegations regarding Trump’s conduct in connection with the events of January 6 itself. The alleged conduct largely consists of Trump’s communications in the form of Tweets and a public address. The President possesses “ex­traordinary power to speak to his fellow citizens and on their behalf.” Trump v. Hawaii, 585 U. S. 667, 701. So most of a President’s public communications are likely to fall comfortably within the outer perim­eter of his official responsibilities. There may, however, be contexts in which the President speaks in an unofficial capacity—perhaps as a candidate for office or party leader. To the extent that may be the case, objective analysis of “content, form, and context” will necessarily in­form the inquiry. Snyder v. Phelps, 562 U. S. 443, 453. Whether the communications alleged in the indictment involve official conduct may depend on the content and context of each. This necessarily fact bound analysis is best performed initially by the District Court. The Court therefore remands to the District Court to determine in the first in­stance whether this alleged conduct is official or unofficial. Pp. 28–30.

You can now determine if Trump's incitement speech was conceived as an official or unofficial duty.   Again, if you find that this is official, remember that this can be appealed and we will likely hear the appeal.
(3) Presidents cannot be indicted based on conduct for which they are immune from prosecution. On remand, the District Court must carefully analyze the indictment’s remaining allegations to determine whether they too involve conduct for which a President must be im­mune from prosecution. And the parties and the District Court must ensure that sufficient allegations support the indictment’s charges without such conduct. Testimony or private records of the President or his advisers probing such conduct may not be admitted as evidence at trial. Pp. 30–32.

Reminder:  you will have a tough time finding evidence that we have not already categorically excluded from consideration.


Bottom line, SCotuS granted Trump (and all future PotUS') broad immunity for anything that can be argued to fall within the scope of ‘ official ’ duties.   And for all others, has precluded using evidence based on official duties in the trials.
SCotUS not only delayed the criminal trials of Trump almost ensuring they will not be tried before the election, but have essentially tied the hands of the prosecutors by inventing extra-constitutional rules and conditions from whole cloth. ]]> Tue, 02 Jul 2024 15:25:44 -0400 http://thenewstalkers.com/tig/group_discuss/20862/footage-trump-doesnt-want-you-to-see-surges-into-national-spotlight http://thenewstalkers.com/tig/group_discuss/20862 Sat, 22 Jun 2024 23:21:24 -0400 http://thenewstalkers.com/tig/group_discuss/20701/research-how-to-replace-fossil-fuels-with-nuclear-energy-engineering-for-change http://thenewstalkers.com/freewill/group_discuss/20701 Fri, 24 May 2024 19:24:07 -0400 http://thenewstalkers.com/tig/group_discuss/20473/donald-trumps-campaign-funnels-cash-to-mar-a-lago-other-businesses http://thenewstalkers.com/tig/group_discuss/20473 Thu, 18 Apr 2024 23:00:23 -0400 http://thenewstalkers.com/tig/group_discuss/20375/researchers-use-ai-to-decipher-ancient-scroll-buried-in-ash-by-vesuvius-eruption http://thenewstalkers.com/tig/group_discuss/20375 Thu, 04 Apr 2024 19:39:58 -0400 http://thenewstalkers.com/tig/group_discuss/20320/djt-trump-media-technology-group-corp-stock-price-quote-and-news-cnbc http://thenewstalkers.com/tig/group_discuss/20320 It has terrible fundamentals and is clearly riding on an emotional / opportunistic wave.    Its daily activities are unpredictable, but it seems to me that its general direction over the next few months will be downward.
Fascinating, really, that we have a stock that in a sense serves as a gauge of investor's belief that Trump will win the presidency.
Where will this stock go, when, and why?]]> Fri, 29 Mar 2024 00:48:14 -0400 http://thenewstalkers.com/tig/group_discuss/20295/trumps-djt-stock-creates-a-unique-new-ethical-nightmare http://thenewstalkers.com/tig/group_discuss/20295 I am quite curious as to who is investing in this stock.]]> Tue, 26 Mar 2024 18:19:06 -0400 http://thenewstalkers.com/tig/group_discuss/20294/trumps-djt-stock-creates-a-unique-new-ethical-nightmare http://thenewstalkers.com/tig/group_discuss/20294 I am quite curious as to who is investing in this stock.]]> Tue, 26 Mar 2024 18:11:18 -0400 http://thenewstalkers.com/tig/group_discuss/20293/trump-hated-humiliated-and-exposed-by-closest-advisors http://thenewstalkers.com/tig/group_discuss/20293 It is a shame that these individuals are not out daily on news shows informing those who are not immersed in the Trump cult.   
(The Trump cult itself is of course unreachable and will ignore / distort everything contrary to Trump in a fine confirmation bias fashion.)]]> Tue, 26 Mar 2024 11:06:51 -0400 http://thenewstalkers.com/tig/group_discuss/20238/easy-mark-why-trumps-464-million-bond-failure-makes-him-a-massive-national-security-risk-alternetorg http://thenewstalkers.com/tig/group_discuss/20238 Mon, 18 Mar 2024 16:42:03 -0400