Elon Musk and the Roman salute: What it is and why it doesn't matter what you call it

the hand motion like that used by Musk was popularized in 19th-century books, toga plays and, later, early 20th-century films as a fictional fixture of ancient Rome, the Guardian reports. Through those media depictions, the so-called Roman salute then became a favorite of 20th-century Hitler ally/Italian fascist Benito Mussolini and his political party. "...the salute as a unifier — and as a path to punish those who don't conform by immediately raising their arms — was present before Hitler...

Elon Musk and the Roman salute: What it is and why it doesn't matter what you call it
At Donald Trump's post-inauguration rally on Monday, presidential adviser, DOGE head and world’s richest human Elon Musk twice made a gesture that many identify with a "seig heil," the infamous Nazi salute.
The X, Tesla and SpaceX CEO thanked the assembled crowd saying, “I just want to say thank you for making it happen,” before biting his lip, dramatically slapping his chest with his right hand and sending his right arm skyward, palm out. Musk turned around and made the gesture again, adding, “My heart goes out to you. It is thanks to you that the future of civilization is assured.”
As Senator Chris Murphy (D-Conn.) laid out during Tuesday's confirmation hearings for Trump’s future UN ambassador, it wasn’t just left-wing activists and anti-Musk figures who considered the gesture an ode to the genocidal German leader: “Evan Kilgore, a right-wing political commentator, wrote on X, Holy crap, did Elon Musk just heil Hitler at the Trump inauguration rally? This is incredible. We are so back'…the Proud Boys chapter in Ohio posted the clip on a Telegram channel with the text, ‘Heil Trump.’ A chapter of the white nationalist group White Lives Matter posted it on Telegram, ‘Thanks for hearing us, Elon. The white flame will rise again.”
For his part, Musk — who recently voiced support for far-right political parties in both the U.K. and Germany — wrote on X that "The ‘everyone is Hitler’ attack is sooo tired." He followed that up by reposting right-wing images of Democrats like Barack Obama, Kamala Harris, and Hillary Clinton making out-of-context motions with their hands that could scarcely be described as similar to his.
Andrea Stroppa, a right-wing Italian friend and supporter of Musk, took the discussion in a whole different direction on Monday when she posted on X that Musk’s salute had Italian origins: "Roman Empire is back starting from Roman salute.”
Some of Musk’s fans and followers on X hopped on the Roman bandwagon, claiming it absolved the titan of hate-mongering since it was less Hitler and more Nero.
The Roman salute's origins
The problem with claiming Musk was simply showing an appreciation for chariots and gladiators is there is no proof of the gesture being used in ancient Rome, according to historian Martin M. Winkler, who wrote a book about the salute. There is no Roman art, writing, or coins that display the gesture, according to Winkler. "The gesture of the raised right arm or hand in Roman and other ancient cultures that is attested in surviving art and literature had a significantly different function and is never identical with the modern straight-arm salute," Winkler wrote in his book, The Roman Salute.
Instead, the hand motion like that used by Musk was popularized in 19th-century books, toga plays and, later, early 20th-century films as a fictional fixture of ancient Rome, the Guardian reports. Through those media depictions, the so-called Roman salute then became a favorite of 20th-century Hitler ally/Italian fascist Benito Mussolini and his political party. "...the salute as a unifier — and as a path to punish those who don't conform by immediately raising their arms — was present before Hitler came to power," according to Forward.
Upon gaining power in the late 1920s, Hitler and his cronies adopted the Italian gesture for themselves, according to to the BBC, and it symbolized fealty to the leader and his racist, anti-Semitic, xenophobic principles. Once World War II began in 1939 following Germany's invasion of Poland, pro-Hitler gestures and pronouncements had penetrated daily life. "In public, ordinary Germans were expected to praise Hitler and give the so-called German greeting ("Heil Hitler!")," according to the Holocaust Encyclopedia, which is hosted by the U.S. Holocaust Museum.
The Roman salute is conditionally allowed in Italy and outright banned in Germany. German chancellor Olaf Scholz responded to Musk's gesture by saying, "We have the freedom of speech in Europe and in Germany," he said, "what we do not accept is if this is supporting extreme right positions."
Sorry MAGA, Musk did a fascist salute. I will give him a slight benefit of the doubt and say it may have been done unconsciously, like Dr Strangelove
One day and the left has lost its mind already.
sorry, he did a specific salute that is associated with fascism. You can say it was an accident if you like but thats about it.
How so? Multiple ultra conservative neo-nazi groups reposted the salute with absolute glee. They obviously take it for what it was. Have they lost their minds, too?
Nick Fuentes, arguably Americas most well known white supremacist, was practically crying with joy because Musk had done a Nazi salute. There is video of it.
Have they lost their minds, too?
yes, of course. Do you think “ultra conservative neo nazi groups” are the go to people for rational thought?
of course race obsessed groups like neo Nazia and democrats in congess interpret things the same way. Every action is racially motivation to a racist.
I don’t think Sharing the same interpretation to stimuli as nick Fuentes is quite the win you seem to think it is.
The "roman salute" was either originated or co-opted by fascists , the seeded article makes that very clear. Musk did the "roman salute" , period. I seriously doubt Musk could do the roman salute by accident with no knowledge of its origin.
Does the Roman salute consist of someone saying “my heart goes out to you” and then acting that out?
The amount of excusing you are doing is an admission of guilt.
No, people of rational thought are rarely found among any rightwing conservative groups.
Devangelical had a seed that listed positive comments from various right wing groups. I commented that they all seem good with it
Yes they have, IMHO. Although the difference is the neo-nazis literally lost their minds a long time ago, while those in the media twisting this into something it is not temporarily lost theirs much more recently. And since when do we care what neo-nazi's think anyway?
Here is the whole video of the subject gesture.
He makes it VERY clear in this video what he means by the gesture.
Open hand over his heart and tossing it out with open hand to the audience as he was thanking them. If I'm not mistaken, Tim Walz made a very similar gesture at a campaign rally, but I don't recall that going viral. Awkward looking? Fuck yes, but why go straight to Godwin's Law when Musk made it abundantly clear what he meant by the gesture?
Note how the media has exploded with this story and very few of them show the whole video with audio. They typically show only a still, or a short clip without the part where he says what he meant by the gesture, to make it look as bad as they can so that they can make up the most damaging caption and story possible. This is not rational, reasonable or responsible reporting, it is simply textbook propaganda. Even the ADL is not buying this nonsense.
Aren't we tired of this shit yet, both from Trump and those who hate him? Honestly, I think this is a big reason people have lost trust in the media, and those in government who double down on such propaganda.
How hard would it be for a guy like him to go on social media and say it’s nonsense? He posts prolifically on all sorts of topics. Doesn’t need to be long. Something like, “I know these are crazy times, but I hate Nazis and would never try to salute like them. I was just emotional and wanted to connect those feelings to the people around me.” It took me 10 seconds. Instead, it’s everyone else in the world saying what he meant.
If you accused me of making a Nazi salute, I’d be on that shit right away.
I have said here a number of times in the past few days that I will somewhat give him the benefit of the doubt, in that maybe he didnt realize what he was doing. Its certainly possible. Or he "unconsciously" did it.
But the fact is he performed the so called "roman salute", which is connected to white supremacist groups. That is the reality of that gesture. Nick Fuentes , a quite well known white supremacist , has a video where he is ecstatic about this , saying of Musk .."that was a serious Roman." Sounds to me that Fuentes is quite familiar with what a "Roman" means .
With just the tapping of the heart, or just the straight arm, there might be some doubt, but when he performed both in that way it was a "Roman", this is indisputable. Like I said, maybe it was some sort of "accident", but is not "nothing".
This reminds me somewhat of the people who used to say, and some still do, the confederate flag is not racist. It is what it is, the symbol of the first country in world history founded on white supremacy. You cant change that. Same with this gesture by Musk.
There is a short video of a group of neo Nazis at a gathering of theirs making the exact same gesture Musk did the other day. Tapping the chest and then throwing out the arm. There may be reasonable defenses of Musk about this, but none of them are that he didnt make a fascist gesture.
There is, but you continue to disregard any defense and live in your own bubble.....just because he is a Trump supporter.
He did. BBC article HERE :
And he said while he was doing it what it meant, so likely he is thinking why dignify the ridiculous charges with a more detailed answer?
I don't completely disagree with you on this, aside from the fact that he explained what he meant by the "sharing my heart" gesture, similar to others like Walz or Harris or other non-nazi politicians have used, while he was doing it. So why accuse him of it in the first place? Having said that, I agree that his other mocking comments today of those engaging in the Godwin's law charade weren't helpful and he just isn't handling this whole situation very well. Very awkward.
First of all, I would carefully review the circumstances of your gesture and never accuse you of something like that unless you were clicking your heals together, shouting "heil Hitler" and wearing a swastika. And if I did, I suspect you would consider the charge ridiculous and say as much without getting into the weeds with your accuser as though you needed to defend yourself. Not an uncommon response.
Uh huh. That's not a denial or an explanation. In fact, it's pretty evasive. We've been getting that kind of crap all week in the Senate confirmation hearings. Like, when they asked Pam Bondi if Trump lost the 2020 election, all she could answer was "Biden is the president." It shouldn't be this hard for people to just be direct.
The dirty tricks thing could be a legitimate criticism, but you say that after you say "hell no, I wasn't doing any nazi salute. Fuck nazis!"
That's a common copout/excuse. Like whenever these guys are accused of sexually assaulting someone, we hear, "I'm not going to dignify that with a response" or "how dare you ask me that?!"
Referring back to the hearings, Pete Hegseth was asked about several incidents of him being drunk or with women and he kept repeating "anonymous slurs," instead of saying "hell no, that never happened."
I'm not talking about a lot of detail. Again, a direct response takes 10 seconds and this dude is never usually shy about saying whatever is on his mind on social media.
That's fine, but there is more to the circumstances. People extend their arm for things all the time and it doesn't get called out as a nazi salute. Rock stars. Sports heroes. Even politicians. Anyone can make a similar gesture.
But in this heated political time, we are talking about a very white guy from a very racist country who has said some alarming things about people he doesn't like and is using his great wealth to gain access to government power. Also, it's pretty well known at this point that whatever white racists we have in this country, they tend to support Trump and Musk. So, at a big gathering, now that the transfer of power is complete, he shoves his arm out like that. It's not that big of a leap for people to think he's being overtly fascist. Even the neo-nazis think he was doing it.
I don't think it's asking a lot that he recognize all of this and be sensitive to it.
Good points. Hopefully he will reply with a more meaningful response soon. But do you really think it will matter to those who are insisting that he was doing a "Nazi salute" despite the fact that he explained what he was doing with that gesture when he did it? I think it is highly likely they will just double down on this shit no matter what he says.
Do you really think people are that stupid?
Yes.
LOL - but too bad the salute is associated with the right arm and hand, not the left. But get the point.
weak
It was probably a planned awkwardness with the tiniest amount of plausible deniability … you know, to own the libs.
Yes, because everyone is crazy for equating that as a NAZI salute... even though it looks exactly like that. At best Elon is a fucking retard.
They are waving at people.
Thats not what Musk was doing.
Of course. Everything is different when the loft does it.
Lol. Progressives ability to avoid context is truly extraordinary.
Even the ADL disagrees with you.
They can read minds.
He did the Roman salute, which is associated with fascism. You may not like it, but thats what it is.
"and then like straight up, that was a serious roman...."
White supremacist Nick Fuentes gushing over Musk's gesture.
No John, he did not. He was acting out his words. Context matters.
Yes, you and Nick Fuentes see the world similarly. I'll side with the ADL on this.
Except for Obama and Harris
You sure do have an infatuation over this guy.
Like you did when Breitbart died, and how you are infatuated with this guy Fuentes, most people here had never heard of either one of them.
All you did/are doing is giving them acknowledgement and because of you and others that celebrated Breitbart's death, his site is one of the most clicked on sites on the internet.
Breitbart thanks you,
Where do you come up with this nonsense? I dont think I've ever written a word about Andrew Breitbart.
Nick Fuentes IS known to people who follow the news.
The only people I ever see pushing Nick Fuentes are left wingers.
I can't retrieve any posts, but I remember many years ago you celebrating his death.
As far as Fuentes, he might be in the news, but that is only because people such as yourself cares.
No one else does.
Breitbart has been dead for 13 years.
Were you even on NT 13 years ago? I dont recall that.
Maybe not here, and I could be mistaken, but it may have been on NV. You were there before, correct?
Was Musk's fist closed when he touched his heart?
Also important to remember this:
I was on Newsvine from 2007-2011.
OK so I was right about here. I came here during the Obama years.
Sean, its simple Democrats wave, Republicans give the Nazi salute, it's like arguing with a drunk.
That is correct, he was projecting his heart out to the crowd as he thanked them, just like he said in the video if you actually watched it.
Many Progressives are overstimulated and overwrought by seeing Trump sworn in and lashing out. Imagining themselves fighting Nazis is one of their most soothing coping mechanisms so they latch onto anything that allows them to enter that headspace. It doesn't really matter how much of a reach the "nazi connection" is. Remember the Nazi stage hysteria? If it wasn't a Nazi salute it would be some dog whistle, in which progressives would claim Trump was parroting some completely obscure text that no one had ever heard of before as a signal to the masses that he was a secret Nazi.
It's going to be four years of these nonsensical claims from the left.
You should go on the comedy stage - maybe Greg Gutfeld needs a writer.
We are already more than 2 months since the election, and many leftists are at least out of the denial stage, but are stuck in the anger stage.
I realize most of them will never see the acceptance stage. It will be a lonely 4 years....and then maybe 8 years of President Vance.
If you search google images, that comes up nowhere, so it's AI created. Do the same of Musk, and you can find movies of him doing it all over the internet. Let's just stay factual.
According to Newsweek these are valid pictures. They are probably waving but if we want to give them the benefit of the doubt we might want too give it the guy who said “My heart goes out to you,”
Try to be a little more discerning. Even with the low resolution, I can see those are photoshopped.
See 4.3.1
I came across this collage of photographs of politicians who seem to be making similar gestures (no indication of who put it together)
Are they all part of the same clandestine secret society
AOC is in it too.
They’re fake, though.
No they're not. Prove they are not real.
Sometimes you have to look very closely. At these resolutions, the easiest one is Hillary. Somebody did a very sloppy job with the selection tool and you can see weird jagged light all around her arm. Other times, you’ll see distortions or blurry sections around body parts.
For once and for all, watch this short clip
Musk is clearly making a specific salute and not waving at anyone. Anyone saying otherwise is gaslighting.
So the ADL is gaslighting now.
I assume the ADL wants to stay on Trump and Musks good side.
Musk clearly does the so called "roman salute". It is a gesture used by white supremacists. Maybe he did it accidentally or not realizing what he was doing, but he did it. Thats all.
That is pretty convenient since it doesn't follow many one the lefts narrative
So why are you making such a fuss about it. Musk obviously has nothing to do with white supremacists.
Except he's absolutely not. His fist is not closed when he pounds his chest, which is an integral part of the salute you claim he's making. Instead, it's open, because he's pretending to grab his heart so he can share with the audience, which is LITTERALLY what he said he wanted to do.
Because he was not waving to anyone. He was making a gesture when he made the statement "my heart goes out to you". Give it up, John. You are practically the only person on the planet that is still trying to make something of this.
Last time.
Clearly! This is why I posted the whole video above at 1.1.11 .
I don't know about that. Try searching for "nazi salute" on Google or Bing. The vast majority of the results that come back are even more unhinged versions of the Musk story. Can't even find a good Hitler video to compare it to.