Baron Creek

What Am I Missing?

  
By:  Baron Creek  •  Nonsense and Ramblings  •  4 weeks ago  •  20 comments

What Am I Missing?
Help Me Understand.

The best I can tell, these Covid-19 vaccines are NOT a spray on type vaccine, but one that is injected. Neither is it a shield such as in a star trek show that will prevent the virus from entering our system.

The best I can understand, the vaccine alerts the immune system (which is inside us) to ramp up and prepare for an invasion of the Covid-19 virus entering our bodies.

As I understand it, the virus must be present in the body for the antibodies to kill the virus off or render it impotent. A person with a weak immune system getting the shots would likely have the immune system of someone that has a healthy immune system without the shot. Let’s say it might be the sniffles versus the ICU or death. It decreases the virus in our system and rejects the rapid growth.

The way I see it… unless the virus enters our body and is immediately rendered impotent or whatever, there would be a period when the virus is transmissible and when we could also test positive. Which could be anytime after we get both shots.

An example would be if I got the shot today, the follow-up in 3 weeks and then an infected person sneezed on me at the 3-month mark. I could be infected and if tested, could test positive and therefore could transmit it to others. The severity of the infection should be considerably less than if I had not been vaccinated.

That is my understanding of how this thing works and the need for social distancing, masks, etc. will continue for quite a bit of 2021, imo.

Yet I keep hearing of reports of people claiming they can now go without masks and stop social distancing… yada yada.

On top of that, my newsfeed is now filling up with news about people getting shots and testing positive. One is even 8 days since being vaccinated. I consider that very plausible.

Why is that so sensational? What am I missing?  

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Baron Creek
Sophomore Guide
1  author  Baron Creek    4 weeks ago

Sometimes (a lot) a headline can be very misleading and even further misleading when the body of the story does not capture the full context. But this is the internet and truth be damned... about anything. I might be doing the same thing... who knows?

 
 
 
Perrie Halpern R.A.
Professor Principal
1.1  Perrie Halpern R.A.  replied to  Baron Creek @1    4 weeks ago

Seems to me like you get it totally. Do you mind printing this up and sending it out to about 340 million people? There seems to be a communication breakdown.

 
 
 
Baron Creek
Sophomore Guide
1.1.1  author  Baron Creek  replied to  Perrie Halpern R.A. @1.1    4 weeks ago

There are a lot of people, much smarter than me, already telling us these things, yet... my news feed seems to be getting overrun with instances of people testing positive days after being vaccinated. This after many experts have said transmission after vaccination is not known .

I will get the vaccination when available, but will continue my hermit lifestyle until at least July.

 
 
 
Trout Giggles
PhD Principal
1.1.2  Trout Giggles  replied to  Perrie Halpern R.A. @1.1    4 weeks ago

I don't understand why people don't get it. Even with a flu shot, you can still get the flu because it takes a couple of weeks for the vaccine to take effect, meanwhile, you've already been exposed to a flu virus or you get exposed a day or two after you get your shot.

Wish I had known this back when my mom would get her flu shot and still get the flu nearly every year

 
 
 
Bob Nelson
Masters Principal
2  Bob Nelson    4 weeks ago

I don't think your understanding of how vaccines work is correct. Rather than risk adulterating accurate information, I recommend Googling "mRNA vaccines". There are a bunch of explainers.

 
 
 
Perrie Halpern R.A.
Professor Principal
2.1  Perrie Halpern R.A.  replied to  Bob Nelson @2    4 weeks ago

Bob that is correct. If you have the virus in your system and receive the vaccination, you can still transmit until your body makes the antibodies. 

 
 
 
Baron Creek
Sophomore Guide
2.2  author  Baron Creek  replied to  Bob Nelson @2    4 weeks ago

Normally, vaccines would do as you suggest, but that part of the covid-19 vaccine studies are yet to come .

And could be several months... to years away. 

 
 
 
Bob Nelson
Masters Principal
2.2.1  Bob Nelson  replied to  Baron Creek @2.2    4 weeks ago
vaccines would do as you suggest

The only thing I suggested is that you Google it.

 
 
 
Baron Creek
Sophomore Guide
2.2.2  author  Baron Creek  replied to  Bob Nelson @2.2.1    4 weeks ago
The only thing I suggested is that you Google it.

Which I had previously done. So thanks for the suggestion.

Many people misunderstand the flu vaccine. We are all different, with different immune systems and capabilities. Those vaccines have been studied for years, yet the CDC does not proclaim blanket immunity for 100% of the people receiving the vaccine. Even when the vaccine targets the very virus of which a person might become infected... weeks and months later. 

 
 
 
Gordy327
PhD Principal
2.2.3  Gordy327  replied to  Baron Creek @2.2.2    4 weeks ago
We are all different, with different immune systems and capabilities.

While that is true, the basic mechanism of immune response to an antigen is the same. Of course, one's overall health and nutrition status factors into the efficacy of the response.

Those vaccines have been studied for years, yet the CDC does not proclaim blanket immunity for 100% of the people receiving the vaccine.

Flu vaccines only protect against several more common strains of flu. Other factors to consider are environmental and social factors, viral load, ect..

Even when the vaccine targets the very virus of which a person might become infected... weeks and months later. 

A vaccine only causes an immune response. How quickly and efficiently the immune system can effectively respond depends on the aforementioned factors.

 
 
 
Drakkonis
Junior Guide
2.2.4  Drakkonis  replied to  Gordy327 @2.2.3    4 weeks ago
Other factors to consider are environmental and social factors, viral load, ect..

As I understand it, viral load is probably the most important factor. If, after you've had both shots and your body is producing antibodies in useful numbers, you can still be infected by someone else but not achieve a viral load sufficient enough to make you sick or to be able to infect others. If I recall other articles I've read correctly, you have to have a certain viral load to have a statistically significant chance of infecting others. 

On a side note, I've been sick and quarantined for most of December. Given all the symptoms I was pretty sure it was Covid. Apparently it isn't. It's something else but nobody I've been to see can say precisely what it is. Best suggestion I've heard is probably bronchitis. The interesting thing about it is I've been tested for Covid three times now. The first took five days to get the results back, which came back negative. I didn't believe it, given the symptoms, so I got tested again. That took eight days to get back. I've been tested a third time, on Monday so I don't expect to get the results of that until Sunday. All three have been the nasal/throat culture test, which I'm led to believe is the most accurate, although you still get false positives and negatives. 

What I find interesting about this is the time it takes to get the results back. Considering how fast some people die from Covid, how useful is this particular test? Yes, I know it isn't necessarily the test itself. It's more likely lack of capacity to test large amounts of tests quickly but, in the end, it doesn't make a lot of difference. Seven days is seven days, regardless of how you got there. For a lot of people who have Covid, things can happen so fast that a test that takes seven days to get back may only serve to confirm what the person died of. 

 
 
 
Gordy327
PhD Principal
2.2.5  Gordy327  replied to  Drakkonis @2.2.4    4 weeks ago
you can still be infected by someone else but not achieve a viral load sufficient enough to make you sick or to be able to infect others.

A vaccinated or immune person can certainly be infected. The the infection will be quickly dealt with by the immune system. Such an individual's immune system is "primed" to fight off the same disease, should it enter the body. Of course, a large enough viral load (or weakened immune system) can still overwhelm the immune system and cause illness. Although, a primed system will generally cause any illness and associated symptoms to likely be milder and resolve more quickly, assuming it develops at all. 

Given all the symptoms I was pretty sure it was Covid.

A Covid antibody titer can make that determination.

All three have been the nasal/throat culture test, which I'm led to believe is the most accurate, although you still get false positives and negatives. 

There are 3 ways to test for Covid, each with their own rate of accuracy: a nasal swab, saliva sample, and blood testing.

What I find interesting about this is the time it takes to get the results back. Considering how fast some people die from Covid, how useful is this particular test?

I find it odd that it would take that long. Depending on the test, a result should come back within several hours to a day. I can only speculate that a testing facility is backlogged with samples to test them in an expedient manner or perhaps the testing facility has to send the samples out to a laboratory capable of testing for Covid.

but, in the end, it doesn't make a lot of difference. Seven days is seven days, regardless of how you got there.

Yes, but there are extenuating circumstances causing the delay in results. Covid testing usually does not take so long. Still, 7 days is much too long a wait.

For a lot of people who have Covid, things can happen so fast that a test that takes seven days to get back may only serve to confirm what the person died of. 

Then there's the issue that a person can still infect others if they think they do not have Covid or don't know they do.

 
 
 
sandy-2021492
PhD Principal
2.2.6  sandy-2021492  replied to  Gordy327 @2.2.5    4 weeks ago
I find it odd that it would take that long.

It's getting better in our area, but this past summer or fall, one of my employees' husband wasn't feeling well - cough, sore throat, fever, aches.  He's a nurse, and had worked with Covid patients, so he was tested, and I had her stay home until he got his results.  It took 5 days, so she missed a week of work.  He was negative, fortunately, and none of the family had any of the symptoms he had.  But yeah, well into the pandemic, I was still hearing waiting times of 3 to 5 days for test results.

 
 
 
Kathleen
Masters Principal
3  Kathleen    4 weeks ago

I don’t really understand myself. I would hope that everyone will still wear their masks and social distance until at least 95% of the population has gotten both shots and even wait a few months after that to be sure. I get the feeling that some will not.

My question is, if you know you had the virus, do you still get a vaccine?

Also, what if you had the virus and had no symptoms and did not know you had it and you get the vaccine, will it hurt you?

 
 
 
Baron Creek
Sophomore Guide
3.1  author  Baron Creek  replied to  Kathleen @3    4 weeks ago
My question is, if you know you had the virus, do you still get a vaccine?

Not an expert, but have read that it is suggested to get the vaccine. From the CDC

Due to the severe health risks associated with COVID-19 and the fact that re-infection with COVID-19 is possible, people may be advised to get a COVID-19 vaccine even if they have been sick with COVID-19 before.

At this time, experts do not know how long someone is protected from getting sick again after recovering from COVID-19. The immunity someone gains from having an infection, called natural immunity, varies from person to person. Some early evidence suggests natural immunity may not last very long.

We won’t know how long immunity produced by vaccination lasts until we have a vaccine and more data on how well it works.

Both natural immunity and vaccine-induced immunity are important aspects of COVID-19 that experts are trying to learn more about, and CDC will keep the public informed as new evidence becomes available.
 
 
 
sandy-2021492
PhD Principal
3.2  sandy-2021492  replied to  Kathleen @3    4 weeks ago
My question is, if you know you had the virus, do you still get a vaccine?

The thinking right now is yes, you should.  Antibody levels have been shown to wane quickly after infection, so immunity following infection may not last long.  A woman I know who had the virus in May already couldn't donate plasma for antibody therapies by November.  Her antibody levels weren't high enough.

It may be that we will all need yearly boosters of the vaccine, even if we've been vaccinated or infected already.

 
 
 
Gordy327
PhD Principal
3.2.1  Gordy327  replied to  sandy-2021492 @3.2    4 weeks ago
Antibody levels have been shown to wane quickly after infection, so immunity following infection may not last long. 

Active immunity will dissipate over time. But it's the immune system's response time (thanks to memory B & T cells) to the infection that is increased. So, when one is exposed to the same antigen later, the body will mount a response much quicker to the antigen to either prevent illness or effectively limiting the duration or severity of an illness.

 
 
 
sandy-2021492
PhD Principal
3.2.2  sandy-2021492  replied to  Gordy327 @3.2.1    4 weeks ago

That's true.  Unfortunately, cell-mediated immunity is difficult to measure.

 
 
 
Gordy327
PhD Principal
3.2.3  Gordy327  replied to  sandy-2021492 @3.2.2    4 weeks ago

One needs a healthy immune system too, to put it simplistically. However, antibody titers can determine the effect of the immune response.

 
 
 
Greg Jones
Senior Participates
3.3  Greg Jones  replied to  Kathleen @3    4 weeks ago

My question is, if you know you had the virus, do you still get a vaccine?

I had the virus in early November, so I should have the antibodies built up and have some immunity. But I intend to have the shot.

Also, what if you had the virus and had no symptoms and did not know you had it and you get the vaccine, will it hurt you?

No, getting the shot won't hurt you, even if you have the antibodies.