The El Salvador pastors saving MS-13 gang members: 'The only way out is through Jesus’
We are in penitentiary now, but in case we leave and go outside, there are many temptations. But we know w are sons of God and that we may be able to help people, because God already changed us."
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MS-13 gang members: 'The only way out is through Jesus’
Oh, yeah. Oh yeah. Oh yeah.
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For those who love God, those who question, and those who disagree over God. Here is some compelling testimony!
Who says faith in God can not change lives for the better? Look-it.
I don't know who claims that there is nothing good that can come from getting people to believe something. Certainly these gang members have had such a shit existence that most anything that can give them hope has a chance for good.
Note, however, that religion (or, generically speaking, believing something true on faith sans evidence) can be used for good (net positive as in this case) and just as easily for bad. Imagine how these gang members might operate if they were under the influence of radicals. Easy to imagine - just consider the current leading terrorist organizations in the world.
Great! Something good can come from believing in God! It's a start.
The fact is some number of these men could have chosen something other than Christian faith to turn to: They chose faith in God. It is a good thing.
And we can properly comment on the "net positive" because in this case we have something wonderful springing up from the cesspool of violent gangs. It is a stellar achievement. It speaks volumes to the lives and directions for these boys and men!
Has anyone here argued that religion is 100% bad? Getting murderers to be kind because they now believe in a God that likely does not exist is better than having them remain murderers.
Do you suggest murderous youths changing their lifestyles, for example, Pastor William Odious (sp), a former founding member of MS-13, who since 2000 to the present is a Christian leader in El Salvador, who is helping young and old MS-13 members convert out of the gangs is suffering from some form of strong delusion?
Additionally, the notorious gang, MS 13 allows its life-long members to "out" from a life-time 'contract' with the gang through a proper evidencing of a religious conversion (See: this Pastor's and others in the video's changed statuses).
Some on NT have argued that religion, Christianity, is worthless. Those commenters know who they are.
I stated that reforming murderers is a good thing (obviously). If it takes belief in a God to do this then I see that as a net plus. Even if the belief is based solely on the words of ancient men (i.e. it is man-made). This would be an example of a good coming from getting people to believe in something on faith alone (sans evidence).
I have made no mention of any specific person. Further, I do not attempt to diagnose mental disorders. I am saying that it is a good thing to reform violent people even if the reform is based on a faith-based belief in Brahman, Zeus, Jesus, Odin, Yahweh, Nuwa, Allah, or even Voldemort. If these gang members were reformed by becoming Scientologists or by joining a cult of flat Earthers I would be in favor of the process.
Well it just so happens in the case of these men's, it is Christianity that is life-changing hard-core criminals gang-members. What is odd and wondrous: MS-13 does not retaliate against its members who leave "the life" for faith in God purposes. I find this fascinating and remarkable.
Good to know you are not going on record as stating the Pastor is delusional. You do imply that the changes for good in these men's lives is "no evidence" of God in their lives.
This is an opinion by someone who does not have any notion of God at all.
The men are witnessing, confessing, and living out the truth of their new found spiritual realities. Their new lives are corroboration (demonstration) of the Spirit within them.
Correct.
I will state that if you wish. Certainly these men have been influenced in the positive by a belief. The majority of people on the planet have religious beliefs so this is nothing unusual. And there are billions of devout believers too whose behavior is profoundly affected (for better and for worse) by their religious beliefs. And these beliefs vary ... they are all over the map. In short, religious belief is not evidence that there is a God behind the scenes.
And you, of course, go personal. I have a very informed notion of God. The fact that none of the Gods of history have supporting evidence that would persuade many of us that they actually exist does not mean that we all lack an understanding of these Gods.
I know that is what you believe, Cal. But believing something does not make it true. Given the ease at which members of our species can believe something to be true simply because someone said it was true, merely believing something is not evidence of anything other than, possibly, human gullibility.
No belief in any god because there is no evidence for any god. But quite good knowledge of the concepts that people of this planet have had for 'god' over history. And if you disagree then fine. I am not here to debate or defend my education, research or knowledge. This topic is about gang members who found Jesus.
We were discussing the gang members and the power of belief and then you turned your attention to me. That is going personal. Talk about the subject. Bringing me into the discussion is going personal.
I did not make my views the subject of discussion. Therefore when you focus on what I believe or not believe you are going personal. Your last statement is yet again going personal. My position on the spectrum of theism to atheism is not the topic.
Here is how you do not go personal: discuss the subject matter. That is all, just the subject matter. See?
If you can directly tell me God is some kind of fraud being perpetrated by believers to hold sway over the lives of men and women—you have done so in numerous prior articles— and, I do not call you out as "going personal," then confidently I can refer to your often stated non-belief in a deity status. That is, formally, you are an atheist.
You are correct, you are not the topic. And nothing I write to you is significantly about your private life. I can not, and will not be any plainer than that. I will mention your non-belief and your atheism as appropriate and often as necessary to add substance and context to what you write. It is common knowledge.
If someone states something like 'there is no evidence that suggests the Bible is anything more than the imagined words of ancient men' that is not a personal comment in any way, shape or form. That may offend you, but that does not make it personal. The example comment does not discuss you or any of your attributes - the subject of the example comment is the Bible.
Good, because that would be doxing - going personal to an extreme. When one, as in this case, takes a general subject matter such as the MS-13 gang and then moves the discussion to personal attributes of a person in the discussion, that is what is meant by going personal. Don't discuss the other person, discuss the topic.
Don't tell me how to discuss my article. You are an atheist, and if you do not want people to mention it in discussions you probably should not write, develop, and comment on articles about world religions and belief systems. I will leave it up to moderators and moderation in the future. I will discuss accordingly. I will not 'directed' in what to say by you, personally.
Have a great discussion with yourself. I am out of here.
Better to be true to oneself, than a thousand words of praise for being a fake; or, a phony. I am no one's patsy.
This is a great demonstration of spiritual power on the lives of men. Corroborating spiritual power is present. I have a more impactful video from a recent episode of This Is Life with Lisa Ling (CNN).
I will showcase that video when it is freed up from the network.
El Salvador's violent gang members are finding God in prison | The Economist
My fellow believers on NewTalkers sometimes you leave me speechless. Here is a story worthy of the telling and not a damn 'word' from any of you!
An article worthy of a good discussion.
Change in the hearts and minds of men and women trapped in 'bloodbath' warfare is a joy to shout about! We can respect the change factor; whatever its cause!!