Yes, it has. It has been deleting a lot of comments in support of Native Americans at Standing Rock as well as comments in support of Israel. One of my friends in Canada who is Jewish was banned for a week because of a comment supporting the Native Americans when he asked why it was okay to reroute the pipeline when the people in Bismark claimed it was too close to THEIR water supply when it was ten miles from their water source, but it was okay to be only one half mile from the only water source to the Sioux.
I have been on the Internet all day and have not seen this current atrocity mentioned. What news media is carrying it?
Yes, it has. It has been deleting a lot of comments in support of Native Americans at Standing Rock as well as comments in support of Israel. One of my friends in Canada who is Jewish was banned for a week because of a comment supporting the Native Americans when he asked why it was okay to reroute the pipeline when the people in Bismark claimed it was too close to THEIR water supply when it was ten miles from their water source, but it was okay to be only one half mile from the only water source to the Sioux.
I have been on the Internet all day and have not seen this current atrocity mentioned. What news media is carrying it?
I don't believe in censorship. Having said that I don't think FB is the appropriate place for political vitriol. I don't follow anyone, left, right or center who vents their political spleens on FB.
I go to FB see what friends and family are up to, across the country and out of the country.
It may be what you use it for, Pat, but FB itself sells pages to every known business and political entity out there. There isn't a business or political entity that doesn't have an ad saying "Like us on Facebook," or "See our Facebook Page!" so yes, Facebook is the place to go. If you buy or even look at anything on line, that company will show its ad and goods on your FB page every time you or your family and friends open your page.
I sent the information to my friends and family members in a sort of "coded" message. They are very social people, involved in different types of organizations and clubs. They will spread the word around their various groups and it will travel. They are not dormant types and tend to travel the country.
You should send it to The Jewish Press, 1stwarrior. They have been reporting on this and supporting the Standing Rock Sioux. They also have a lot of readership internationally.
Would you join a protest if you found out a sewer treatment plant was going to be built less than half a mile from your only supply of drinking water.... knowing that every time a heavy rain came the sewer plant opened its vats and allowed raw sewage... all that feces, vomit, and all the unmentionables flushed down toilets... to be loosed into not only the fresh waterways, but all over the ground cover where the rainstorm will wash it onto your lawn where your children walk and play, into your garden, and the water supply that you turn on with your faucet to drink a glass of water, cook your meals, wash your body and your clothes, your children's hair and tender skin?
Only a half mile from your home? Would you care if your were walking onto the property of the company planning to build that sewage plant if they had given you only 48 hours notice that were GOING TO BUILD it in two days time, after they had decided to NOT build the plant ten miles from the upper society's country club because THEY complained it might overflow onto their golf course if it maxed capacity? (The people of Bismark, ND, were given over a year and invited to meetings to discuss the initial proposed route, which they complained was too close to the capital city... ten miles was way to close, they said, to their drinking water supply.)
Once that pipeline leaks or breaks (and it WILL leak or break) that water supply will be forever contaminated. It CANNOT be cleaned and the oil company will drag its feet and fight with the state and the subcontractor over who is responsible. People are commenting about the dangers of transporting oil by train and truck and mentioning the people are harmed and killed by these methods, such as the terrible number of 40 who were killed by the last oil train wreck.
While no one wishes anyone to be harmed or killed, it sounds as though oil executives and others are saying it is better for hundreds or thousands of Native Americans to die from their water being poisoned than for 40 Americans or Canadians to die from a train being derailed or a truck wrecking. If that is what they think they need to come on out and say it and stop being cowards about it.
The science has proved that pipelines will leak. The science has proved that leaks cannot be cleaned up to bring the environment they pollute, whether water or ground, back to its original state. History has proved that oil companies will not immediately begin cleanup but will first try to lay blame on someone else to avoid the expense. Science has also proved that one half mile is insufficient to protect either the water or the reservation land from contamination should a leak occur.
The violence so far has been on the part of the oil company and law enforcement.
There is something called MIC's, microbiological induced corrosion. These micro-bugs eat away at steel that lead to pressure ruptures in pipelines. The next problem is welded joints. With age they become brittle and crack, affecting it's integrity.
In the U.S. 2013 there were 7,662 spills, blow outs and leaks..You may remember the one in Alabama a couple of weeks ago. 250,000 gallons. Of course before it all said and done, the size of the spill will increase.
The area the prayer meeting took place was hwy 6 (dirt road) so I doubt if it was trespassing.
There is also another problem. Steel that is faulty. You may want to ask Embridge Canada about buying faulty steel. They are now having to replace much of a pipeline. The Canadian government was very unhappy with Embridge.
There was no violence on the part of the protestors...Viewing the video shows that quite clearly.
Trespassing is NOT violence. Go out in front of your house and try to shoot your neighbor who stepped onto your lawn while he mowed his-- YOU would be the one in jail.
These people were peacefully praying when this happened. They weren't carrying pitchforks or shot guns... They were praying! If prayer is considered to be vandalism and violent, then every church, every Sunday, is at risk of promoting violence. We all know that isn't going to happen...
"Another legal concept, which served as the common law basis for the statutory Stand Your Ground laws, is what's known as the “castle doctrine.” In South Carolina, this doctrine says that individuals are allowed to use deadly force to defend themselves in places they have dominion over."
Better read the fine print to the SC Castle Law, Cerenkov.
The law protects you from prosecution if you can prove you were defending yourself in one of the following places — provided you are an owner, resident, or invited guest:
• house
• apartment
• condo
• hotel room
• porch
• mobile home
• tent
• place of business
• vehicle, motorized or non-motorized
DANGER: A second requirement is that your assailant must be putting you in danger of "great bodily injury," which the law defines as something that "creates a substantial risk of death or which causes serious, permanent disfigurement, or protracted loss or impairment of the function of a bodily member or organ." You're clear to defend yourself with deadly force if your attacker is:
• in the process of unlawfully breaking and entering your home, vehicle, or business, or
• attempting to forcibly remove somebody from your home, vehicle, or business
A unarmed trespasser on your front lawn doesn't qualify to be killed. That is why James Davis was arrested.
And sometimes, Nona, it isn't just about the greed, but the hateful pleasure they get from being able to wield the power over them because they are "just indians."
I like the ideas of using any and all social media, advertising, using all available traditional print and electronic media to get a constant stream of news out to potential and actual friends of Native and First Americans. The more the merrier. There is no such thing as too much heat and light on those who oppress, attack, exploit, and subjugate anyone.
I would add that care should be taken never to antagonize anyone who is an actual, or potential friend. It's a rookie error, and it never plays out well. It makes an enemy out of an ally. Counter productive, to say the least.
Avoiding Bismark, but not Native American water supplies doesnlt pass the smell test of morality for any fair minded individual. If an action isn't good enough for everyone, it isn't good enough for anyone.
Use lots of images, and put a face people can relate to on the problem. A picture says more than a thousand words.
All best luck with this. Use social media to pressure main stream media. The main stream trails viral social media. They are interested in ratings, not using the First Amendment freedoms for the purposes originally intended. Prove there is a market for such advocacy and watch the coverage increase.
Always make a clear and easy to understand and follow call for action. Don't just educate. It produces no change. Show people how to make their voices heard on your behalf. Key your eyes on the goal. Equality of treatment, opportunity, and advancement. Push for not more but never less than anyone else.
Keep your cool. Develop a media strategy, story line and don't go off point. Consistency, level headed decisions, and looking at the world through the eyes of those whom you wish to influence is the key to success here. Don't do this to blow off steam. Do it to effect sustainable change.
Peace, Abundant Blessing through Justice for One and All.
You know folks, this site provides for many ways of posting this article. Look at the bottom and you can use any of those methods... also you might have noticed that the up button has also social media. This site does not censor, so make the best of it. The more attention we get for this cause, the better for the cause.
Avoiding Bismark, but not Native American water supplies doesn't pass the smell test of morality for any fair minded individual.
No it doesn't Enoch - it smacks purely of racism. The intent appears to avoid having the "white" people in Bismark exposed to potential spills, illnesses, loss of business, etc, so why not move it to the Indian Reservation - they don't count anyway.
I am utterly HORRIFIED, but not at all surprised. The Oil companies have all the money, and will spend it to say that the pipeline represents no danger to the Native Americans who are protesting. I know from personal experience that an oil spill cannot be completely cleaned up, or that the water supply can be cleaned to its previously pristine levels.
The tribes have a right to protect their lands. That the state government is on the side of the pipelines is very telling, to me. We have to support these people in their fight!
Cerenkov, dear friend, the one big thing that we had to study, mark, and increase environmental security for was the oil pipeline, (a small one), that was in the middle of the Wellhead Protection Area, (WHPA). All of the WHPAs go out to the "steady state", where a spill would not enter the aquifer. Fortunately, the local government understood and required the pipeline owners to keep a close eye on the pipeline where it crossed the WHPA. Increased visual inspections, installation of leak detection devices, etc. It was a water supply for about 1 million people, so they complied. Kicking, but they complied.
I am HORRIFIED that the state government is doing this. The Feds need to step in-- not that they will, but they need to. We think that Flint, MI was bad? This is going to be MUCH worse!
I have not seen this on my news where I live. If I was younger and healthy, I would go and stand with them. Do what we did in the 60s. Is there any petitions out there to show our outrage of what is going on or do we need to start one?
I recently posted an article on wind turbines; I am dealing with a somewhat similar situation. Big energy, big money and complicit legislators are ultimately the problem for the "little guy".
There is a divide-and-conquer phenomenon here; a project that should never have been approved and implemented, once commenced, obviously requires labor and laborers. Laborers do not have input as to the viability of such a project, its inherent dangers, and any adverse circumstances affecting those living in proximity to the project's construction and on-going functions.
With so many possible infrastructure-related jobs in America, that big oil and big money enjoy legislative approval for such projects while, PRIMARILY REPUBLICAN LEGISLATORS SAY "FUCK NO" TO PROJECTS LIKE BRIDGES AND HIGHWAYS is symptomatic of the ultimate, underlying problems.
Do you have any place for the public to sign a petition for you, Mac?
I appreciate the offer, mimi, but the two major problems currently are the lack of understanding by property owners of the implications and the ever-mounting legal fees to fight based on environmental violations, proximity to occupied homes …
There is no petition per ce, rather documentation and testimony before the Township Zoning Board.
I don't mind confrontation, but when one party orchestrates a lie-campaign and those with the facts get bombarded by big money, the stress related to the actual circumstances and the propaganda that repeats the lies … is sometimes oppressive.
I'm sorry, Mac. Looks like a visit by a major media outlet and a big story is your only save. It's such a shame that citizens really don't have much say over their own lives or property.
My attempt to head off the placement of 37, 525' tall WIND TURBINES on a ridge just above a Pocono Mountain community … BEFORE IT BEGINS.
Letter to the Editor and Property Owners … My Attempt to Shock Indifferent, Ill-Informed/Uniformed Locals of Potential Consequences and Catastrophic Outcomes … After the Fact is Too Late!
Will I Have to Walk Away from My House
While hearings before the Penn Forest Township Zoning Board go on, angst-producing speculation over an Iberdola Wind Farm proposal including environmental destruction, property value declines, impassable local roads, a compromised water table and water-well systems and more … deep-pocket legal tactics and ploys come into play.
Zoning board hearings with wind farm executives and their attorney present, have been conducted at a fire house in reasonable proximity and accessibility to concerned property owners, a venue that enables people like myself to attend, express concerns and a show of opposition solidarity to the placement of a wind farm on the ridge above Lipo Way.
At recent hearings, the attorney for wind farm representatives (Iberdola and the Bethlehem, Pennsylvania Water Authority) has claimed there have been "death threats" leveled at herself and company executives. I and others are waiting for verification of that allegation … waiting.
In addition to now attending a hearing with armed body guards, the attorney is attempting to have the hearing venue moved to the Court House in Jim Thorpe, a location that would certainly make it more difficult for residents to attend.
This tactic is nothing new when it comes to energy companies playing “victim,” that, while the potential real victims worry day-to-day over the adverse impact of such projects, the thoughts of which weigh heavily on their present and future well-being!
Get the picture?
While the State of Pennsylvania has parameters regarding wind farm placement proposals, should the wind farm construction actually begin, aside from health, environmental and other concerns, THERE IS THE ISSUE OF POTENTIAL CATASTROPHIC FAILURES associated with wind turbines and farms.
For example: Since my house would be one of the closest to the proposed turbines location … if the 37 proposed, 525’ high turbines are placed …
What would be my recourse, should, during heavy rains and/or snow melts, these, after hundreds of acres of pristine forest were replaced with millions of pounds of concrete turbine foundations,
• If a mud or rock slide would take down my tiny, 900 square foot house,
• If a turbine propellor blade broke away and crashed through my roof, maimed or killed myself or a family member,
• If the water from my well were to be rendered unfit for human consumption,
• If I could not sell my house, or, if I could only sell it at less than half its current market value …
• If a wind turbine motor burst into flames during one dry, windy autumn day and my house and the entire community burns to the ground?
My educated guess is, that despite the State's protocols regarding liability, individuals would be forced to sue for damages as the company would likely argue that "it was not liable" … and consequently, individual legal fees in a series of protracted litigation proceedings, would exceed the "little guy's" financial and time constraints!
The deep pockets usually prevail in such cases, and, should this scenario play out, I see no other realistic outcome than to simply walk away from my house as my resultant legal fees could easily exceed the value of my property … AND NO SETTLEMENT WOULD BEGIN TO ADDRESS ANY LOSS OF LIFE OR LIMB!
Even in its current limbo status, the possibility of 37, 525' tall wind turbines appears to have started people selling, trying to sell, leaving the community, and, to make a once tiny-dream-house become a nightmare of bad outcome scenarios. What used to be my "happy place" and, the only “permanent” homes of others, are now sources of apprehension, stress and at times, even depression.
While there are LAWS … one has to wonder if there will be JUSTICE.
___________________________________________
Such projects rely on the dissemination of false information, crushing opposition by forcing the "little guys" to pay legal fees, efforts to squelch dissemination of information, and I SPECULATE … campaign contributions and other forms of "buying" support of the "influential".
A. Mac, most states have laws that say if your water supply is ruined, whoever ruined it has to replace your supply. The drinking water section of the Pennsylvania EPA will know the answer to that question. May help a little...
''Such projects rely on the dissemination of false information, crushing opposition by forcing the "little guys" to pay legal fees, efforts to squelch dissemination of information, and I SPECULATE … campaign contributions and other forms of "buying" support of the "influential".''
That's how it is done. You can add in accusing the ''little guy'' of violence without any proof at all. Yet they get away with violence, because they ''can''......
Mac, if any of those things happened, you would be dead and dust in the wind before it ever came before they got through affixing blame and it came before the courts.
Mac, if any of those things happened, you would be dead and dust in the wind before it ever came before they got through affixing blame and it came before the courts.
I hope those who read my letter come away with that same revelation; they need to be apprehensive and oppose the project based on that apprehension.
Officer points gun at protester as Dakota Access pipeline clashes continue
Nearly 100 people have been arrested since protests began.
An officer drew his weapon and several people were arrested as confrontations over the proposed Dakota Access pipeline in North Dakota continue this week. A protester on horseback allegedly charged at the officer, who viewed it as an act of aggression, authorities said Wednesday.
This is a comment from someone posting on the article:
BLM protesters can throw Molotov cocktails, rocks, bottles at police and state troopers, vandalize, loot and burn businesses, and they stand there. Indians get guns drawn on them for riding a horse.
Donations are pouring in from all over the country to the Standing Rock Sioux.
Agua Caliente tribe of California, $250,000 for the legal fund
Eastern Band of Cherokee, $50,000 for the legal fund
Standing Rock Sioux Protest fund, $489,000 for legal and emergency needs
Numerous tribes and organizations are donating everything that could be needed for a prolonged protest.
The Menominee and Cherokee Nation delivered 3 semi load of firewood for the winter and a semi load of bottled water.
A caravan will be leaving Southern California with truck loads of supplies. Another will be leaving from Albany NY with truck loads of supplies next week.
The Methodist, Episcopalian and Anglican Church have issued statements supporting the Standing Rock Sioux and have sent their people to join the protestors.
Native Hawaiians, Pacific Islanders and Asian's have joined the protest and sent representatives to Standing Rock.
Many tribes have ''donation centers'' and are gathering needed supplies that will be shipped to the Standing Rock Sioux.
More people and organizations are joining the fight on a regular basis.
This ain't going away.
As the local sheriff continues to state that the protestors are armed, they have yet to find these ''armed'' Natives.
Today, the National Education Association, the nation’s largest professional association representing more than three million educators, expressed solidarity with the Standing Rock Sioux Nation’s sovereign right to protect its people and sacred lands.
The following statement can be attributed to NEA President Lily Eskelsen García:
“We support the sovereign right of the Standing Rock Sioux Nation to preserve their basic human and civil rights, to protect their water, land, natural resources, sacred sites, and their people.
“Native communities have the same right as any other community to live without fear that political decisions will put them in harm's way.
Standing Rock is bigger than just a community in North Dakota. It is symbolic that we have moved from a time when communities of color who have faced a history of oppression and environmental racism were expected to be silent. Standing Rock has every right to challenge the business interests they believe threaten their homes, their families and their way of life.“Standing Rock is bigger than just a community in North Dakota. It is symbolic that we have moved from a time when communities of color who have faced a history of oppression and environmental racism were expected to be silent. Standing Rock has every right to challenge the business interests they believe threaten their homes, their families and their way of life.”
And more...These are non Indian groups in North and South Dakota.
WORC supports Standing Rock Sioux Tribe protest August 30, 2016
Chair of WORC Nancy Hartenhoff-Crooks released the following statement today supporting the ongoing protest of the Dakota Access Pipeline by the Standing Rock Sioux Tribe:
“The Western Organization of Resource Councils (WORC) supports the Standing Rock Sioux Tribe’s opposition to and protest of the Dakota Access Pipeline.
“We stand with Standing Rock in their fight to protect water, tribal sovereignty, landowner rights, human rights, and cultural resources threatened by the present route of the Dakota Access Pipeline.
“WORC urged the Pipeline and Hazardous Materials Safety Administration (PHMSA) in January to significantly improve pipeline safety and construction standards to mitigate the possible impacts of pipeline ruptures. Data shows that 60% of pipelines fail within the first 20 years of operation, and a quick response to a leak or spill during crisis by governing bodies and industry officials is unassured.
“Lastly, we support Standing Rock Tribal Chairman Dave Archambault II in his steadfast efforts to protect the water and cultural resources of the Standing Rock Sioux Reservation. The current route takes the pipeline less than one-half mile from the tribe’s reservation border, and sites of spiritual and cultural significance exist along the pipeline path. For these reasons, WORC also supports the tribe’s request for a preliminary injunction to halt construction of the pipeline and undo the approval of the pipeline by the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers.”
Two of WORC’s member groups, Dakota Rural Action (South Dakota) and Dakota Resource Council (North Dakota), have adopted resolutions opposing the pipeline. A third member group, Western Native Voice , has issued a statement supporting the Standing Rock Sioux Tribe.
Feds say they won't evict sprawling pipeline protest camp
Associated Press
BISMARCK, N.D.
The sprawling encampment that's a living protest against the four-state Dakota Access pipeline has most everything it needs to be self-sustaining — food, firewood, fresh water and shelter. Everything, that is, except permission to be on the federal land in North Dakota.
Federal officials say they won't evict the Oceti Sakowin, or Seven Council Fires camp, due to free speech reasons, even though it's on U.S. Army Corps of Engineers land near the confluence of the Missouri and Cannonball rivers that many Native Americans believe is still rightfully owned by the Standing Rock Sioux under a nearly 150-year-old treaty.
"We're not leaving until we defeat this big black snake," camp spokesman Cody Hall said of the pipeline.
But residents in the area have expressed feeling unsafe and frustrated with how the protest has swelled to scores of self-described "water protectors" who have joined the tribe's fight, and Republican U.S. Rep. Kevin Cramer — North Dakota's lone voice in the House — says the camp is illegal. He blames the agency for looking the other way.
"If that camp was full of people advocating for fossil fuels, they would have been removed by now," Cramer said. "There is some discretionary enforcement going on."
Ranchers claiming they are afraid of the Indians and that they are "seeing guns in the back of pickups. We are locking our doors now, too, and nobody around here ever locked their door before." Right! Cause Indians are just a bunch of thieves and marauding raiders who will probably scalp them in their sleep.... ROFLMAO
"People don't leave from the camp with malicious intent to do harm," Hall said. "There are always going to be a few bad eggs in any group you can't get the message to."
Ranchers and farmers in the area are wary of the growing number of protesters and are fearful of damage to their fields and pastures, Morton County Sheriff Kyle Kirchmeier said.
"We've had several reports of people down there getting stopped on the road and being intimidated to hay that has been stolen to grazing animals without permission," he said.
from what I understand , hall is one of the public relations speakers for the protesters , and even he admits , there will always be some "bad eggs " in a group such as this.
I think the rest is self explanatory , damage to fields where protesters have no right to be , theft of hay or even unauthorized grazing of their animals on private property, even though I stand with the protesters in principle , I do not stand with the theft from local residents if they choose not to do business with them such as selling hay or pasturing others livestock . if they couldn't feed them on the BLM range or bring forage , they shouldn't have brought them . feeding the protesters livestock is not the locals problem.
but that's my opinion , follow the link and read the whole article , in its entirety.
the ranchers are talking about "being afraid" and "locking our doors for the first time ever" and "being harassed" when they go outside and "seeing guns" in the back of pickups; they are talking about how they are "going strapped" themselves now. I feel they are deliberately setting the Indians up so they can shoot them and claim self defense.
The tribe needs to hire a third party to monitor the situation and take constant video. It is obvious the local and state police are biased and the oil company will not allow this multi-billion dollar project to be stopped, even lawfully. And with the ranchers selling property for above top dollar so the oil company can have property rights access, the protesters need to be very wary.
I just don't know if the Native Americans will fully realize that even the support of the federal government will protect them from the machinations of the greed at play here.
It was recently posted about a policewoman who shot herself in the leg and declared that a black person did it. I would not put it past the ranchers and locals who will benefit financially from the pipeline to do the same in order to declare gun violence on the part of the protesters and have them banned.
There is a site called "blogspot" that has photos and on site videos but I can't copy any of them, it isn't allowed. If you can access it, it is worth the read, especially the comment section from the readers who, the day law enforcement was there with military-type equipment, drew guns on women and children, had helicopters dropping some type of chemical on them (the wind blew it away... lol, the NAs said their wind spirits took care of them)... these people said they were censored and blocked from posting messages and videos on both Facebook and Twitter, that they tried to send information and videos to major news media and were ignored, so they sent it to the BBC and other European outlets who were broadcasting it.
There is a site called "blogspot" that has photos and on site videos but I can't copy any of them, it isn't allowed. If you can access it, it is worth the read, especially the comment section from the readers who, the day law enforcement was there with military-type equipment, drew guns on women and children, had helicopters dropping some type of chemical on them (the wind blew it away... lol, the NAs said their wind spirits took care of them)... these people said they were censored and blocked from posting messages and videos on both Facebook and Twitter, that they tried to send information and videos to major news media and were ignored, so they sent it to the BBC and other European outlets who were broadcasting it.
It won't allow me to even copy the text, Buzz. I don't know if anyone who has a scanner can scan it or not and then post it. I hope so. There is a great comment on the sideline about Crazy Horse. If someone can't scan and post it, I will have to write it all out and with my crippled hands it will be agonizing.
For clarification, it is the farmers/ranchers who are putting "more guns in the back of pickup trucks" - not the Indians.
Republican state Rep. James Schmidt, who also farms and ranches nearby, said he and his neighbors are more cautious.
“I’m starting to see a lot more guns in the back of pickup trucks. All it is going to take is one incident and emotions are going to overtake the situation,” he said. -
So he is saying it is the ranchers who are arming themselves in anticipation of needing to use them against non-armed Indians?
Thank you for that clarification, 1stwarrior. I will have to keep scanning any mention of this in the other social medias; yesterday I saw articles where the people commenting had misunderstood, as I did, exactly who he was accusing of having guns in trucks, due to the way it was written.
So he is saying it is the ranchers who are arming themselves in anticipation of needing to use them against non-armed Indians?
Thank you for that clarification, 1stwarrior. I will have to keep scanning any mention of this in the other social medias; yesterday I saw articles where the people commenting had misunderstood, as I did, exactly who he was accusing of having guns in trucks, due to the way it was written. When I see mention of it again, I will address it.
(If this double posts, I apologize. For some reason, a lot of my stuff has been appearing twice.)
1st , the camp cant be illegal if the government holds sway and wont evict, which is the case here I initially saw the article posted on my MSN feed and read it and the comments to that particular article on MSN , and a number of commenters were comparing this protest to the Oregon occupation of last winter , though I see some real differences .
the frustration I think is self explainatory if you read the whole article, those local ranchers and locals period , are trying to make a living as well , and I think it speaks volumes that the locals try not to say anything ( as per the article) out of fear of physical intimidation , makes me think they are not on the protesters side in this , at least where it affects their livelihood , the way they live or whatever.
My thought is if there has been theft , then these folks are not just peaceful protesters, peaceful protesters don't have to steal to get their point across.
Mark - I "personally" don't believe there has been any theft. I have the feeling that the county Sheriff, who is very openly aggressive and biased against the Native "Protectors", is having his personnel spread rumors about the "evil" that the protectors are doing - when, in fact, there is no validity.
I truly believe the protectors are doing as law-abiding citizens should do - if they need anything, they purchase it themselves or they use the supplies that are being sent to them. I think I remember reading somewhere that there have been trucks that have brought hay as food stuff for the horses.
Mimi, from day one the governor and the local sheriff have used this play on fear of the Indians as part of the overall misinformation campaign. The governor called in the National Guard, and declared a state of emergency. The local sheriff claimed that the protestors had pipe bombs and Molotov cocktails. Which he later had to admit wasn't true. Constant ''claims'' of masked Indians, Indians with weapons circulate without any proof of it being true. Tell the big lie enough times and everyone will believe it.
The major news agencies have not reported on this and take their information from the sheriff. The smaller news agencies are there in person filming and they have yet to see weapons. The clergy is there in person and have never see these so called ''weapons''...It's the ''big lie'' all over again, mimi.
The elders, women and children there, must have weapons hidden on them, don't cha know.
I have deep roots through out ND, SD and MN. Friends and relatives are at the camp, it is peaceful and without weapons.
The Standing Rock Sioux have asked the DOJ to send in observers to stop this misinformation campaign. I hope that it happens, but not sure that it will.
This is no different than every other time that Indians protest. The really big change is the number of people involved in this and the support rolling in from around the world. As the protests grow, and more and more organizations join and support it, it will become impossible for the major news outlets to avoid reporting on it.
And except for a few politicians that have supported and actually gone to Standing Rock the rest of the political world pretends it doesn't exist.
Major organizations have voiced their support, yet it's near impossible to find that information presented to the nation from the major news organizations.
Yes, we are well aware of how the government and greed play into this. We have 500 years of experience.
There is a lot of stuff the main stream media is refusing to report, Kavika. The difference between now and Wounded Knee is that there was no Internet or other social media in 1973; but I am surprised someone hasn't "recapped" Wounded Knee and the deaths there blamed on the Native Americans.
There have been over 100 arrests of Native Americans so far.
Kavika - As these folks are "Indian" and the county/state folks are non-Indian, PL 280 is not the authority of ND - they didn't even sign the option availability.
Indian tribes retain concurrent criminal jurisdiction over Indians in P.L. 280 states. That is the shared view of the Federal Government and the vast majority of courts that have directly considered the issue.
(1) "Indian country" is defined by 18 U.S.C. sec. 1151 to include all areas within a reservation, trust allotments, and dependent Indian communities. Courts interpret section 1151 to include all lands held in trust for tribes or their members. See United States v. Roberts. 185 F.3d\\25(WhClr.\999).
Now, Mark, correct me if I'm wrong here - but - when the ACOE granted the protectors a "special use" permit, that placed the area designated as "Trust", i.e., under the protection of the Feds. As such, ND has absolutely no jurisdiction over the Special Use Designated Area - it still belongs to the ACOE.
You betcha - only Feds have jurisdiction on trust lands. In "some" cases, there may be joint jurisdiction with the state, but that is only within the PL 280 states - but Feds have priority when dealing with Indian/tribes/nations.
Somehow the authorities have the names of all the Native Americans there... I think. A warrant was issued on the 15th for a young man for an incident of criminal trespass on September 3rd. He wasn't even at the camp on the 3rd, but when he heard about it he turned himself in to clear things up with the court. When he arrived he was arrested and told there was no bond and had to spend the night in jail. The charge is a misdemeanor... no bond, on a misdemeanor charge. He was kept in a small, cold room until 4a.m. after he had talked with an attorney.
The charge was dropped but he was warned that it could be "refiled." Why could they refile it when he wasn't even there on that day and they know it, and violated his civil rights by denying bail on a misdemeanor charge? Sounds like a threat to me but then I get my exercise by jumping to conclusions...
The oil company has blatantly defied the court order to stop all construction within a 20 mile buffer on both sides of the Missouri River, and the state of ND and the Morton County sheriff's department have refused to enforce the federal court order.
It could be that the authorities are just keeping a very close watch on who joins the Sioux camp.. and the young man is Lakota Greg Grey Cloud who is an activist for missing and murdered women. His name is known as an activist so I suppose authorities wanted to intimidate him into not going into "activist" mode while in Morton County. Guess they haven't got the message that Native Americans have rights, too and the Sioux especially are not all that easily intimidated...
Off the reservation, Indians have the same Constitutionally guaranteed Civil Rights that everyone else enjoys. Yup - his attorney needs to slap some wrists.
1st not quite sure what your asking me , and I am still learning everyday whats what out here where I live.
As for permits , if the issuing authority has authority over said lands , then I would using common sense have to say those permits are indeed valid, anything after that I am over my head and only speak as to what I think is right and wrong.
I can attest that jurisdiction is something I have had to deal with my rather short time here, from a legal standpoint , if something happens here , I have to call the county via the BIA, the county has no jurisdiction outside my property , and the BIA since I am non enrolled have no jurisdiction on my property , and the mutual aide agreements around here are sketchy to say the least and often at odds with one another due to inter agency rivalrys, different way of doing things is what I attribute it to , but the top wrung on the ladder is both the FBI and the US marshals they retain jurisdiction. at least here.
and the last thing I will touch on , whether to call them protectors or protesters, that's a politically correct public relations manifestation similar to the abortion issue , notice , pro life or pro choice, opposite sides of the issue but mean the same thing . each just sounds better to whomever is being swayed. these protectors are indeed protesting , and I stand with their right to protest and with why they are protesting , I just wont be sucked into the world of political correctness as to have to watch my verbage . and neither should anyone else IMHO.
and in closing , I will ask ever watch the movie little big man? I don't see native vs white or any other melatonin content , hell I am native born to this land , meaning I was born here its my home as well , so I don't view it as a difference in color of skin , I view us all , as human beings and as human beings even with the differences , should live as we know is right , and wrong , knowing there are those even among us that would use the differences to tear us apart. that pretty much sums up my ethos I think. we are all different , yet we are all the same.
It hasn't been mentioned in the main stream media, either, that a woman was targeted and beheaded by a Muslim in Oklahoma.
Today Obama turned over control of the Internet to a corporation in California that has on its board civil rights activists. The Internet is supposed to be a place for everyone to have a voice, even those we find unpalatable.
Lately when trying to read news articles the page will freeze up and an ad will cover it saying I need to subscribe to the source of the article to continue to read it. That's already having to pay to know what's happening in the news, and with this move, I see more of it coming, a form of blackmail.
I know that Indians have had over 500 years of experience with the treachery of the governments of America; I was just hoping they weren't putting a lot of faith in the fact that they are not harboring weapons to keep them from harm. And I hope there are people there going among the younger ones to ensure they aren't hiding any weapons; as we all know, a group this large with such a diversity of people is bound to have some hotheads.
I fear for those there, especially the children. One thing is certain, though, if violence results in the death of any of the white or international people who have joined the Native Americans, it will be like pouring gasoline on a raging fire, and the situation with Native Americans in this country will become the top subject in governments around the world. It isn't "just Indians" like it was in Wounded Knee.
Lately when trying to read news articles the page will freeze up and an ad will cover it saying I need to subscribe to the source of the article to continue to read it. That's already having to pay to know what's happening in the news, and with this move, I see more of it coming, a form of blackmail.
Some news sites feel subscriptions are a way for them to make money. If it flops they go back to the freebies. There is no conspiracy behind it.
It just feels like it, I suppose. News has been one of those nebulous "rights" that Americans take for granted and to be told I have to pay to read the news is just not.... right.
And I am wary of the new overseers of the Internet.
If you go to this address you will see clear and up close photos of the military maneuvers used on the protesters at Standing Rock. I could not copy them, was given a message that "this function not allowed here."
If you read the comments posted on blogspot, you will see many, many comments from people saying they posted comments and videos to Facebook, yet they never appeared... were blocked. You will also see comments from people saying that Twitter has blocked them from commenting. They are amazed that Facebook and Twitter, two social media outlets that are touted as the conscience of "truth" in news for the common people, will not allow them to post on this situation.
Some of them say they have sent comments and videos to news outlets such as CNN and others... failing to receive any feedback or see any coverage, they sent the information to BBC and other European outlets and it is being broadcast overseas. The phrase "using chemical warfare on its own people" is being used.
There was a small notice I found on FB that said "Type "YES" if you want FB to stop censoring the speech to the UN and coverage of the protest of the water protectors." I have tried several times to copy the address to post here and to find it in a browser but to no avail. Now I can't find it again on my FB page.
Those with Facebook accounts, here is where you can find comments from people who were there, how others feel about it, and videos. Those without Facebook, it is worth it to see if you have a friend who will pull it up for you.
There seemed to be some skepticism that FB was really censoring the feeds and comments coming from and supporting the water protectors. It is for real, and Twitter was also.
blogspot/Censored News says that the same oil company was given a special presidential permission to dig a pipeline to Mexico in the Big Bend region of Texas. They are currently destroying ancient burial sites in Trap Springs.
To add insult to grievous injury, the oil company has named its pipelines "Dakota" and "Comanche."
If the people in CA with the water problem could be connected to the fight of Native Americans to save their own water, it would become a nation-wide movement that encompasses everyone and not just the Indians. Turning the fight into one for water instead of one for indigenous people only, would drive the nail in the coffin.
While the fight is about water, those opposing the fight are trying to turn it into a Native American "thing" and brushing over the water issue, trying to make it get lost.
Those with Facebook accounts, here is where you can find comments from people who were there, how others feel about it, and videos. Those without Facebook, it is worth it to see if you have a friend who will pull it up for you.
Link to a story on BBC...They actually sent a reporter to Standing Rock.
In the article they said that supporters have come from as far away as Maine and CA. To add to that, there are Indigenous people from Mexico, Canada, Mexico, Puerto Rico, New Zealand, Ecuador, Honduras and Samoa.
An Indian reservation in North Dakota is the site of the largest gathering of Native Americans in more than 100 years. Indigenous people from across the US are living in camps on the Standing Rock reservation as they protest the construction of a new oil pipeline. As a result, a new community has emerged. The BBC's Charlie Northcott went to North Dakota to meet the protesters and discover what goes on in camp.
C.Northcott
Peter Francis, of the Sioux people, has spent a week hauling iron pots between a holding tank and an open fire to maintain a continuous flow of boiling water for tea and cooking. He is staying in the Red Warrior Camp, one of two enormous gatherings of Native American people near the Cannonball River, in the US state of North Dakota. He stands, united, in protest against an oil pipeline. "This is about water," he said, referring to the protest. "Water is the life of our people. Without it, we cannot exist."
C.Northcott
The Red Warrior Camp is situated in a remote corner of the Standing Rock Sioux Reservation, near the confluence of the Missouri and Cannonball rivers. The multi-billion dollar oil pipeline the campers are opposing is slated to pass beneath the Missouri, just north of Standing Rock. The protesters say the pipeline will despoil a number of sacred sites in the area, including the flooded forest pictured here, which used to be a burial ground. The bleached trees are said to be the skeletons of Lakota Dakota spirits.
C.Northcott
Life in the camps is often quiet. Whole families have based themselves there, having driven from as far afield as Maine and Arizona - hundreds of miles across America. Hours are spent around camp fires, sharing stories and food. Traditional Native American staples are on the menu, including sweet corn, peppers, beans and fry bread, which is eaten sweet and savoury.
C.Northcott
A cohort of young men patrol the Red Warrior Camp calling themselves "spirit riders." They spend most of their time running errands and delivering messages. They are excellent riders, often going bareback, sometimes without reins, occasionally galloping in the nearby floodplain. The Sioux people have a long history of horsemanship, defeating the US army repeatedly in pitched horse battles in the 1800s - most famously at the Battle of Little Bighorn, where the invading cavalry commander George Custer was killed.
C.Northcott
Hawste Wakiyan Wicasa believes the Native American standoff with Dakota Access is the last Great Indian War. "This is the first time the seven bands of the Sioux have come together since Little Bighorn," he said. "Now, we have no weapons, only prayers." Mr Wicasa says he prays every morning and every night in the sweat lodge pictured behind him. "We are here for what our ancestors fought and died for. We have endured 250 years of betrayal by the white man."
C.Northcott
The company behind the oil pipeline, Dakota Access LLC, says it will create thousands of jobs and generate over $40m (£30.5m) in tax revenue for the state of North Dakota. Seven counties will be traversed in total, in addition to the states of Iowa, Illinois and South Dakota. The pipeline will follow the line of the power cables visible in the backdrop of this picture, as seen from the outer edge of the Red Warrior Camp.
C.Northcott
Amihan, 19, pictured here with a friend she made in the Sacred Stone Camp, drove from Ohio to participate in the protest. Many protesters have been living in the camps for weeks, but some are just passing through. Standing Rock has seen hundreds of young indigenous people and activists visit, eager to take part in the historic gathering. Over 80 different tribes have a presence in the area.
C.Northcott
On most days, demonstrations take place along the road leading to the Dakota Access pipeline construction site. Participants wave flags representing different tribal nations. In some cases, they obstruct trucks and diggers approaching the pipeline. Over 20 Native American protesters have been arrested in the month of August, including the chairman of the Standing Rock Sioux Tribe, David Archambault II.
C.Northcott
Pancho, pictured here, is from the Standing Rock Reservation. He has been protesting against the pipeline since April, and worries the camps are becoming overcrowded and that local supplies are overstretched. "We know this place can't handle many more people," he said, standing in the Sacred Stone Camp. "Resources are stretched. Our community does not have a lot of money."
C.Northcott
Clyde Bellecourt is one of the founders of the American Indian Movement, a significant civil rights group in the 1960s and 70s. In all his days fighting for Native American rights, he says he has never seen anything like the camps. "I am 80 years old," he said. "I've been jailed, I've been shot. This is the most beautiful thing I have ever seen. This is what I fought for."
C.Northcott
At the centre of the Red Warrior Camp is a microphone, and at night, a blazing fire. Anyone can stand up and speak or sing. Here, Dallas Goldtooth, an organiser for the Indigenous Environmental Network, delivers a speech about camp logistics. "The porta potties [toilets] are the most expensive things here," he said, to a chorus of laughter. "Please do your stuff neatly."
C.Northcott
For children, the protest camps are a playground of excitement. Dogs run wild, horses are available to be ridden. The two camps are close to the river, which offers relief in the humidity of summer.
C.Northcott
Govinda Dalton is one of an older generation of environmental activists living in the camp. He runs Spirit Resistance Radio 87.9 out of his white van. Social media use by young Native Americans has been the driving force behind the growth of the protest, led by hashtags like #waterislife, #NoDakotaAccess and #nodapl. Instagram and Facebook have been the most popular mediums, but Twitter is also being used. "This is what it's about man," said Mr Dalton.
C.Northcott
Sacred ceremonies, many of them private and closed to outsiders, are part of the everyday life of the camp. Each tribe brings its own set of customs, but many find common ground with songs, chanting and pipe-smoking rituals. Here Chloe Piepho says a prayer to Mni Wiconi, the sacred waters of life, in the Lakota Sioux language.
C.Northcott
Johnelle, pictured front, is always in a rush. She is the emergency response coordinator for the Standing Rock Sioux tribe. She runs a logistics team, with finance, medical and media officers. Looking out for the lives of thousands of visitors has been a challenge, but she relishes it. "If we find out there is something people need," she said, "whether it be food, soap or medical supplies, we will find it for them."
C.Northcott
The human rights organisation Amnesty International, pictured here interviewing Ladonna Brave Bull, is investigating whether Native American liberties have been infringed. Local law enforcement have blocked a major road to and from the Red Warrior Camp, citing the interest of public safety. Residents of the camp say the blockage prevents them from picking up basic supplies from their nearest city, Bismarck.
C.Northcott
Security, cleaning and cooking are all handled by volunteers in the two protest camps. Some of have been told to keep track of the media, who are scantly trusted. "We don't bother them," said Xavier Long Feather, a 17-year-old volunteer on the security team. "But it's good to keep watch, to see who is here."
C.Northcott
On 9 September, a major decision will be made regarding the Red Warrior Camp and its protesters. A judicial court will decide whether the Dakota Access pipeline should proceed, or be halted for further environmental and archaeological assessments. "This is the biggest gathering of its kind in history," said Keith Lussier, on the camps. "We will stand our ground if we have to."
If the people in CA with the water problem could be connected to the fight of Native Americans to save their own water, it would become a nation-wide movement that encompasses everyone and not just the Indians. Turning the fight into one for water instead of one for indigenous people only, would drive the nail in the coffin.
While the fight is about water, those opposing the fight are trying to turn it into a Native American "thing" and brushing over the water issue, trying to make it get lost.
Mark, here is my opinion. These reports are coming from the local sheriff. This is the same sheriff that said the Indians had pipe bombs and Molotov cocktails which he later had to admit were not true. Anything coming from him is suspect.
Admitting that there are ''bad apples'' doesn't say anything about there were real crimes that he was aware of.
If, and I say ''IF'' the theft of hay or illegal grazing is really proven, than those responsible should be punished. The other side of that is, if this is really happening why hasn't anyone be caught? There are hundreds of LEO's an NG in the area, ya think the whole thing might be BS?
Spread the fear is the best way to destroy a movement or protest. It been used for decades against Indians and anyone getting in the way of what the money wants. Ask some of the non Indian ranchers in the Dakota's that are being intimidated by the ''big money'' because they are fighting the pipeline. Or the non Indian people fighting Wind turbines, or the people in Texas fighting the Ben Bend pipeline.
As far as intimidation goes, this is probably the first time in their lifetime that Indians have outnumbered non Indians in the area. You know, those crazy Indians might go on the War Path. To much old west BS.
BTW, this comment was supposed to be right under yours Mark. How it ended up down here is a mystery.
BS , I cant say , what I can say from experience , I had an appy stud , follow my neighbors mare home , no brand , nothing and we couldn't keep him with the mare , called the brand inspector , never showed , called BIA, never showed, 2 days later after a little self investigation found the owner, his hands came and got it , they had no clue it was on my property, safely penned so it didn't get on the highway. they didn't care it was free feed to them. county cops wont handle livestock unless its on a roadway, and I doubt the NG would handle it either ,when it comes to livestock and agriculture , that's a whole different set of circumstances.
the way I read the article I think there has been something , how bad who can say , the protesters want to keep the peaceful image , the cops (and NG) don't want to escalate things , your most likely right the locals haven't felt this outnumbered since the little bighorn, and most likely not something they are not use to , I tell them get use to it its what I live with every day, just use common sense.
I'll most likely say to a couple council members I know out here they might want to start thinking of sending some forage and hay to the camp for the horses, and say it in such a way so that its to avoid problems.
I read about this yesterday. My feeling was that if the Indians were stealing hay the ranchers would have reported it to the authorities and they would have been at the protest site faster than Harry Potter could fly his broom from the Griffindor dorm to Hagrid's cottage. Hay has its own signature in the way it is baled... the string used and the composite of the hay. It would have been easy to prove if any hay being fed to the Indian's horses was pilfered from the ranchers. For that matter, I find it hard to believe the ranchers haven't had guards posted since the protest began to prevent just this type of thing from happening.
As for the grazing, you have to remember this is "ranch" land and there is public land there also. I have been on trail rides where we have tied our horses or hobbled them on the side of the road (well away from the traffic, of course) which is the twelve feet designated as belonging to the county and not to the person who owns the property there. At least, that is the way it is in Massachusetts and Tennessee and Alabama, and Mississippi.
I just don't think that with all the animosity involved here and the attitude of law enforcement, that the Indians would jeopardize their position with hay theft. And if they had, they would be in jail, and that theft would be grounds to make the camp disperse. In that region of the country, hay is worth its weight in gold when winter sets in and I can tell you from hefting bales of it myself, the weight is astounding. Theft of it from ranchers would be akin to stealing a man's horse in the Old West, almost a hanging offense. Have you ever seen any pictures of video of helicopters trying to drop hay to cattle during winter snow, or heard of farmers around the country donating whatever they could to midwest ranchers during bitter winter? Stealing hay would be a felony in that area of the country and there would already be arrests.
only things I know about hay is its the main ingriedient of bull shit , and when it dries out its a fire danger of spontaneously combusting in the right conditions, oh and that its worth a lot of money , so much so it can make or break a rancher if they have too much or not enough especially in cold climate areas.
The summer can be rough too if there is not enough rain to get several cuts off the fields, and if there is too much rain you can't cut it. If it is cut and rains before the sun can cure it and it's baled and fed to horses it can cause colic and kill them. That's why I said it's worth its weight in gold and is almost a hanging offense if you steal it from those growing it for their own livestock.
Mimi , out here , 3-4 cuts is a good year , not several and most around here have switched from small bales( one a person could move) to the bigger bale that need equipment to move , like 2-3 ton bales , discourages it from growing legs and walking away, its getting harder and harder to find small bales , I use the small bales as archery targets then when they rot I till it into my garden in the fall.
The gentleman who brings the round rolls to my horse says he cannot find anyone willing to work in the fields to stack the hay on trucks or take it off the trucks and stack it in the barns any more. And he said baling it in "square bales" (they aren't square any more but rectangular) is more expensive in machinery upkeep than baling round rolls, plus round rolls can be kept in the open with a tarp over them, whereas square bales have to be put up in waterproof barns.
Lane said his insurance agent even told him he could lower his insurance premium if he baled only the round rolls because there had been too many barn fires caused by square bales. If they become damp or are baled even slightly damp then tightly stacked, the heat of the summer in the barn can cause spontaneous combustion. And, the agent said his company was getting harder to convince all the fires were "spontaneous."
I read about this yesterday. My feeling was that if the Indians were stealing hay the ranchers would have reported it to the authorities and they would have been at the protest site faster than Harry Potter could fly his broom from the Griffindor dorm to Hagrid's cottage. Hay has its own signature in the way it is baled... the string used and the composite of the hay. It would have been easy to prove if any hay being fed to the Indian's horses was pilfered from the ranchers. For that matter, I find it hard to believe the ranchers haven't had guards posted since the protest began to prevent just this type of thing from happening.
As for the grazing, you have to remember this is "ranch" land and there is public land there also. I have been on trail rides where we have tied our horses or hobbled them on the side of the road (well away from the traffic, of course) which is the twelve feet designated as belonging to the county and not to the person who owns the property there. At least, that is the way it is in Massachusetts and Tennessee and Alabama, and Mississippi.
I just don't think that with all the animosity involved here and the attitude of law enforcement, that the Indians would jeopardize their position with hay theft. And if they had, they would be in jail, and that theft would be grounds to make the camp disperse. In that region of the country, hay is worth its weight in gold when winter sets in and I can tell you from hefting bales of it myself, the weight is astounding. Theft of it from ranchers would be akin to stealing a man's horse in the Old West, almost a hanging offense. Have you ever seen any pictures of video of helicopters trying to drop hay to cattle during winter snow, or heard of farmers around the country donating whatever they could to midwest ranchers during bitter winter? Stealing hay would be a felony in that area of the country and there would already be arrests.
I apologize, Kavika, for going off subject on the hay; just trying to lay groundwork for how serious a bale of stolen hay can really be and as an excuse for confrontation, it IS one.
I apologize, Kavika, for going off subject on the hay; just trying to lay groundwork for how serious a bale of stolen hay can really be and as an excuse for confrontation, it IS one.
(Sorry, it double posted again. And I just had a picture in my head of ten or so Indians in the dark of night rolling of those huge round rolls through a pasture, one of them with his finger to his lips going, "Sssshhhhh!" .... a total impossibility)
I'm so God damn angry...This is outrageous..beyond outrageous.
It is illegal. Has been posted on Facebook and BANNED from Facebook.
Have sent to six Native News organizations and the DrudgeReport.
I'm not on facebook, why was it banned from FB, 1st?
FB deemed in "inappropriate".
The truth is inappropriate!!!! WTF..
FB has been censoring a lot of stuff lately.
It's on you tube now.
Good! You Tube gets more coverage than all other news media combined and it reaches every age bracket.
Yes, it has. It has been deleting a lot of comments in support of Native Americans at Standing Rock as well as comments in support of Israel. One of my friends in Canada who is Jewish was banned for a week because of a comment supporting the Native Americans when he asked why it was okay to reroute the pipeline when the people in Bismark claimed it was too close to THEIR water supply when it was ten miles from their water source, but it was okay to be only one half mile from the only water source to the Sioux.
I have been on the Internet all day and have not seen this current atrocity mentioned. What news media is carrying it?
Yes, it has. It has been deleting a lot of comments in support of Native Americans at Standing Rock as well as comments in support of Israel. One of my friends in Canada who is Jewish was banned for a week because of a comment supporting the Native Americans when he asked why it was okay to reroute the pipeline when the people in Bismark claimed it was too close to THEIR water supply when it was ten miles from their water source, but it was okay to be only one half mile from the only water source to the Sioux.
I have been on the Internet all day and have not seen this current atrocity mentioned. What news media is carrying it?
I don't believe in censorship. Having said that I don't think FB is the appropriate place for political vitriol. I don't follow anyone, left, right or center who vents their political spleens on FB.
I go to FB see what friends and family are up to, across the country and out of the country.
It may be what you use it for, Pat, but FB itself sells pages to every known business and political entity out there. There isn't a business or political entity that doesn't have an ad saying "Like us on Facebook," or "See our Facebook Page!" so yes, Facebook is the place to go. If you buy or even look at anything on line, that company will show its ad and goods on your FB page every time you or your family and friends open your page.
It is how Mark Zuckerberg makes his billions.
It amazes me that Facebook is censoring this. Ridiculous. Outrageous.
I sent the information to my friends and family members in a sort of "coded" message. They are very social people, involved in different types of organizations and clubs. They will spread the word around their various groups and it will travel. They are not dormant types and tend to travel the country.
You should send it to The Jewish Press, 1stwarrior. They have been reporting on this and supporting the Standing Rock Sioux. They also have a lot of readership internationally.
Were they trespassing? That's not peaceful.
Good! You Tube gets more coverage than all other news media combined and it reaches every age bracket.
Cerenkov,
Would you join a protest if you found out a sewer treatment plant was going to be built less than half a mile from your only supply of drinking water.... knowing that every time a heavy rain came the sewer plant opened its vats and allowed raw sewage... all that feces, vomit, and all the unmentionables flushed down toilets... to be loosed into not only the fresh waterways, but all over the ground cover where the rainstorm will wash it onto your lawn where your children walk and play, into your garden, and the water supply that you turn on with your faucet to drink a glass of water, cook your meals, wash your body and your clothes, your children's hair and tender skin?
Only a half mile from your home? Would you care if your were walking onto the property of the company planning to build that sewage plant if they had given you only 48 hours notice that were GOING TO BUILD it in two days time, after they had decided to NOT build the plant ten miles from the upper society's country club because THEY complained it might overflow onto their golf course if it maxed capacity? (The people of Bismark, ND, were given over a year and invited to meetings to discuss the initial proposed route, which they complained was too close to the capital city... ten miles was way to close, they said, to their drinking water supply.)
Once that pipeline leaks or breaks (and it WILL leak or break) that water supply will be forever contaminated. It CANNOT be cleaned and the oil company will drag its feet and fight with the state and the subcontractor over who is responsible. People are commenting about the dangers of transporting oil by train and truck and mentioning the people are harmed and killed by these methods, such as the terrible number of 40 who were killed by the last oil train wreck.
While no one wishes anyone to be harmed or killed, it sounds as though oil executives and others are saying it is better for hundreds or thousands of Native Americans to die from their water being poisoned than for 40 Americans or Canadians to die from a train being derailed or a truck wrecking. If that is what they think they need to come on out and say it and stop being cowards about it.
First, I would base my response on science not emotion. Second, I would not engage in violence while claiming my protest was peaceful.
The science has proved that pipelines will leak. The science has proved that leaks cannot be cleaned up to bring the environment they pollute, whether water or ground, back to its original state. History has proved that oil companies will not immediately begin cleanup but will first try to lay blame on someone else to avoid the expense. Science has also proved that one half mile is insufficient to protect either the water or the reservation land from contamination should a leak occur.
The violence so far has been on the part of the oil company and law enforcement.
Science has not proved that the risks outweigh the benefits. Science has proven the opposite. Period.
Science has not proved that the risks outweigh the benefits. Science has proven the opposite. Period.
QUESTION MARK!
Citation please.
There is something called MIC's, microbiological induced corrosion. These micro-bugs eat away at steel that lead to pressure ruptures in pipelines. The next problem is welded joints. With age they become brittle and crack, affecting it's integrity.
In the U.S. 2013 there were 7,662 spills, blow outs and leaks..You may remember the one in Alabama a couple of weeks ago. 250,000 gallons. Of course before it all said and done, the size of the spill will increase.
The area the prayer meeting took place was hwy 6 (dirt road) so I doubt if it was trespassing.
There is also another problem. Steel that is faulty. You may want to ask Embridge Canada about buying faulty steel. They are now having to replace much of a pipeline. The Canadian government was very unhappy with Embridge.
There was no violence on the part of the protestors...Viewing the video shows that quite clearly.
Trespassing is violence. Vandalism is violence.
Trespassing is NOT violence. Go out in front of your house and try to shoot your neighbor who stepped onto your lawn while he mowed his-- YOU would be the one in jail.
These people were peacefully praying when this happened. They weren't carrying pitchforks or shot guns... They were praying! If prayer is considered to be vandalism and violent, then every church, every Sunday, is at risk of promoting violence. We all know that isn't going to happen...
Yes, trespassing is violence. In some states, I could shoot them. Once they resort to violence, they lose any support from me.
Not in South Carolina you can't.
"Another legal concept, which served as the common law basis for the statutory Stand Your Ground laws, is what's known as the “castle doctrine.” In South Carolina, this doctrine says that individuals are allowed to use deadly force to defend themselves in places they have dominion over."
My dear friend,
I would love to see the business owners use that defense after they have shot a few BLM rioters who were looting and burning their stores.
Better read the fine print to the SC Castle Law, Cerenkov.
The law protects you from prosecution if you can prove you were defending yourself in one of the following places — provided you are an owner, resident, or invited guest:
• house
• apartment
• condo
• hotel room
• porch
• mobile home
• tent
• place of business
• vehicle, motorized or non-motorized
DANGER: A second requirement is that your assailant must be putting you in danger of "great bodily injury," which the law defines as something that "creates a substantial risk of death or which causes serious, permanent disfigurement, or protracted loss or impairment of the function of a bodily member or organ." You're clear to defend yourself with deadly force if your attacker is:
• in the process of unlawfully breaking and entering your home, vehicle, or business, or
• attempting to forcibly remove somebody from your home, vehicle, or business
A unarmed trespasser on your front lawn doesn't qualify to be killed. That is why James Davis was arrested.
Un-believable how would they like to be in their change places with the A.N. ?? Greed knows no boundaries....
And sometimes, Nona, it isn't just about the greed, but the hateful pleasure they get from being able to wield the power over them because they are "just indians."
I have a good feeing where that hate came from.
I like the ideas of using any and all social media, advertising, using all available traditional print and electronic media to get a constant stream of news out to potential and actual friends of Native and First Americans. The more the merrier. There is no such thing as too much heat and light on those who oppress, attack, exploit, and subjugate anyone.
I would add that care should be taken never to antagonize anyone who is an actual, or potential friend. It's a rookie error, and it never plays out well. It makes an enemy out of an ally. Counter productive, to say the least.
Avoiding Bismark, but not Native American water supplies doesnlt pass the smell test of morality for any fair minded individual. If an action isn't good enough for everyone, it isn't good enough for anyone.
Use lots of images, and put a face people can relate to on the problem. A picture says more than a thousand words.
All best luck with this. Use social media to pressure main stream media. The main stream trails viral social media. They are interested in ratings, not using the First Amendment freedoms for the purposes originally intended. Prove there is a market for such advocacy and watch the coverage increase.
Always make a clear and easy to understand and follow call for action. Don't just educate. It produces no change. Show people how to make their voices heard on your behalf. Key your eyes on the goal. Equality of treatment, opportunity, and advancement. Push for not more but never less than anyone else.
Keep your cool. Develop a media strategy, story line and don't go off point. Consistency, level headed decisions, and looking at the world through the eyes of those whom you wish to influence is the key to success here. Don't do this to blow off steam. Do it to effect sustainable change.
Peace, Abundant Blessing through Justice for One and All.
Enoch.
Personally I am neither a 1st American nor a 2nd American ... maybe a 3rd ?
You know folks, this site provides for many ways of posting this article. Look at the bottom and you can use any of those methods... also you might have noticed that the up button has also social media. This site does not censor, so make the best of it. The more attention we get for this cause, the better for the cause.
Dear Friend Perrie: Great suggestions.
Thanks. You are the best!
E.
Avoiding Bismark, but not Native American water supplies doesn't pass the smell test of morality for any fair minded individual.
No it doesn't Enoch - it smacks purely of racism. The intent appears to avoid having the "white" people in Bismark exposed to potential spills, illnesses, loss of business, etc, so why not move it to the Indian Reservation - they don't count anyway.
Bishop Michael Curry, ''Standing Rock maybe the new Selma''.
I am utterly HORRIFIED, but not at all surprised. The Oil companies have all the money, and will spend it to say that the pipeline represents no danger to the Native Americans who are protesting. I know from personal experience that an oil spill cannot be completely cleaned up, or that the water supply can be cleaned to its previously pristine levels.
The tribes have a right to protect their lands. That the state government is on the side of the pipelines is very telling, to me. We have to support these people in their fight!
Cerenkov, dear friend, the one big thing that we had to study, mark, and increase environmental security for was the oil pipeline, (a small one), that was in the middle of the Wellhead Protection Area, (WHPA). All of the WHPAs go out to the "steady state", where a spill would not enter the aquifer. Fortunately, the local government understood and required the pipeline owners to keep a close eye on the pipeline where it crossed the WHPA. Increased visual inspections, installation of leak detection devices, etc. It was a water supply for about 1 million people, so they complied. Kicking, but they complied.
I am HORRIFIED that the state government is doing this. The Feds need to step in-- not that they will, but they need to. We think that Flint, MI was bad? This is going to be MUCH worse!
I have not seen this on my news where I live. If I was younger and healthy, I would go and stand with them. Do what we did in the 60s. Is there any petitions out there to show our outrage of what is going on or do we need to start one?
Me, too, dear Mrs. D! If you hear of a petition, or something we can do to add our voice to their support, please let us all know!
Mrs D. Dowser,
Here is a link to one of many petitions.
Thanks, Kavika! Let us know, please, if there is more we can do...
Thank you Kavika! I just signed the petition.
Thank you Kavika! I just signed the petition.
Me too, Mrs D.
Dowser, Mrs D, Mac...Thanks for signing the petition.
I recently posted an article on wind turbines; I am dealing with a somewhat similar situation. Big energy, big money and complicit legislators are ultimately the problem for the "little guy".
It looks like the unions are behind this.
Dean, seems like there is a major split in the AFL-CIO over Trumka's support of DAPL.
Your link also shows Unions that are opposed to DAPL
There is a divide-and-conquer phenomenon here; a project that should never have been approved and implemented, once commenced, obviously requires labor and laborers. Laborers do not have input as to the viability of such a project, its inherent dangers, and any adverse circumstances affecting those living in proximity to the project's construction and on-going functions.
With so many possible infrastructure-related jobs in America, that big oil and big money enjoy legislative approval for such projects while, PRIMARILY REPUBLICAN LEGISLATORS SAY "FUCK NO" TO PROJECTS LIKE BRIDGES AND HIGHWAYS is symptomatic of the ultimate, underlying problems.
Do you have any place for the public to sign a petition for you, Mac?
Do you have any place for the public to sign a petition for you, Mac?
I appreciate the offer, mimi, but the two major problems currently are the lack of understanding by property owners of the implications and the ever-mounting legal fees to fight based on environmental violations, proximity to occupied homes …
There is no petition per ce, rather documentation and testimony before the Township Zoning Board.
I don't mind confrontation, but when one party orchestrates a lie-campaign and those with the facts get bombarded by big money, the stress related to the actual circumstances and the propaganda that repeats the lies … is sometimes oppressive.
It's always stressing and depressive... My prayers are with you!
I'm sorry, Mac. Looks like a visit by a major media outlet and a big story is your only save. It's such a shame that citizens really don't have much say over their own lives or property.
As tribes continue to resist Dakota Access pipeline, oil exec suggests paying them off
He thinks money can buy anything.
He should research the situation of the ''Black Hills''....
Money is his God....
Native American Prophecy:
When the Last Tree Is Cut Down, the Last Fish Eaten, and the Last Stream Poisoned, You Will Realize That You Cannot Eat Money
My attempt to head off the placement of 37, 525' tall WIND TURBINES on a ridge just above a Pocono Mountain community … BEFORE IT BEGINS.
Letter to the Editor and Property Owners … My Attempt to Shock Indifferent, Ill-Informed/Uniformed Locals of Potential Consequences and Catastrophic Outcomes … After the Fact is Too Late!
Will I Have to Walk Away from My House
While hearings before the Penn Forest Township Zoning Board go on, angst-producing speculation over an Iberdola Wind Farm proposal including environmental destruction, property value declines, impassable local roads, a compromised water table and water-well systems and more … deep-pocket legal tactics and ploys come into play.
Zoning board hearings with wind farm executives and their attorney present, have been conducted at a fire house in reasonable proximity and accessibility to concerned property owners, a venue that enables people like myself to attend, express concerns and a show of opposition solidarity to the placement of a wind farm on the ridge above Lipo Way.
At recent hearings, the attorney for wind farm representatives (Iberdola and the Bethlehem, Pennsylvania Water Authority) has claimed there have been "death threats" leveled at herself and company executives. I and others are waiting for verification of that allegation … waiting.
In addition to now attending a hearing with armed body guards, the attorney is attempting to have the hearing venue moved to the Court House in Jim Thorpe, a location that would certainly make it more difficult for residents to attend.
This tactic is nothing new when it comes to energy companies playing “victim,” that, while the potential real victims worry day-to-day over the adverse impact of such projects, the thoughts of which weigh heavily on their present and future well-being!
Get the picture?
While the State of Pennsylvania has parameters regarding wind farm placement proposals, should the wind farm construction actually begin, aside from health, environmental and other concerns, THERE IS THE ISSUE OF POTENTIAL CATASTROPHIC FAILURES associated with wind turbines and farms.
For example: Since my house would be one of the closest to the proposed turbines location … if the 37 proposed, 525’ high turbines are placed …
What would be my recourse, should, during heavy rains and/or snow melts, these, after hundreds of acres of pristine forest were replaced with millions of pounds of concrete turbine foundations,
• If a mud or rock slide would take down my tiny, 900 square foot house,
• If a turbine propellor blade broke away and crashed through my roof, maimed or killed myself or a family member,
• If the water from my well were to be rendered unfit for human consumption,
• If I could not sell my house, or, if I could only sell it at less than half its current market value …
• If a wind turbine motor burst into flames during one dry, windy autumn day and my house and the entire community burns to the ground?
My educated guess is, that despite the State's protocols regarding liability, individuals would be forced to sue for damages as the company would likely argue that "it was not liable" … and consequently, individual legal fees in a series of protracted litigation proceedings, would exceed the "little guy's" financial and time constraints!
The deep pockets usually prevail in such cases, and, should this scenario play out, I see no other realistic outcome than to simply walk away from my house as my resultant legal fees could easily exceed the value of my property … AND NO SETTLEMENT WOULD BEGIN TO ADDRESS ANY LOSS OF LIFE OR LIMB!
Even in its current limbo status, the possibility of 37, 525' tall wind turbines appears to have started people selling, trying to sell, leaving the community, and, to make a once tiny-dream-house become a nightmare of bad outcome scenarios. What used to be my "happy place" and, the only “permanent” homes of others, are now sources of apprehension, stress and at times, even depression.
While there are LAWS … one has to wonder if there will be JUSTICE.
___________________________________________
Such projects rely on the dissemination of false information, crushing opposition by forcing the "little guys" to pay legal fees, efforts to squelch dissemination of information, and I SPECULATE … campaign contributions and other forms of "buying" support of the "influential".
A. Mac, most states have laws that say if your water supply is ruined, whoever ruined it has to replace your supply. The drinking water section of the Pennsylvania EPA will know the answer to that question. May help a little...
''Such projects rely on the dissemination of false information, crushing opposition by forcing the "little guys" to pay legal fees, efforts to squelch dissemination of information, and I SPECULATE … campaign contributions and other forms of "buying" support of the "influential".''
That's how it is done. You can add in accusing the ''little guy'' of violence without any proof at all. Yet they get away with violence, because they ''can''......
You can add in accusing the ''little guy'' of violence without any proof at all. Yet they get away with violence, because they ''can''......
Yup! It's in my letter.
It's their M.O. Mac.
Mac, if any of those things happened, you would be dead and dust in the wind before it ever came before they got through affixing blame and it came before the courts.
Mac, if any of those things happened, you would be dead and dust in the wind before it ever came before they got through affixing blame and it came before the courts.
I hope those who read my letter come away with that same revelation; they need to be apprehensive and oppose the project based on that apprehension.
Officer points gun at protester as Dakota Access pipeline clashes continue
Nearly 100 people have been arrested since protests began.
An officer drew his weapon and several people were arrested as confrontations over the proposed Dakota Access pipeline in North Dakota continue this week. A protester on horseback allegedly charged at the officer, who viewed it as an act of aggression, authorities said Wednesday.
This is a comment from someone posting on the article:
Watch the video and you see aggression only on the police side. Natives had hands up stating they were unarmed as they were being surrounded on all sides when police began arresting them. The police didn’t just have bean bags, there were small children and elders being forced to run. Get the story right and tell it from the perspective of the water protectors.
BLM protesters can throw Molotov cocktails, rocks, bottles at police and state troopers, vandalize, loot and burn businesses, and they stand there. Indians get guns drawn on them for riding a horse.
Donations are pouring in from all over the country to the Standing Rock Sioux.
Agua Caliente tribe of California, $250,000 for the legal fund
Eastern Band of Cherokee, $50,000 for the legal fund
Standing Rock Sioux Protest fund, $489,000 for legal and emergency needs
Numerous tribes and organizations are donating everything that could be needed for a prolonged protest.
The Menominee and Cherokee Nation delivered 3 semi load of firewood for the winter and a semi load of bottled water.
A caravan will be leaving Southern California with truck loads of supplies. Another will be leaving from Albany NY with truck loads of supplies next week.
The Methodist, Episcopalian and Anglican Church have issued statements supporting the Standing Rock Sioux and have sent their people to join the protestors.
Native Hawaiians, Pacific Islanders and Asian's have joined the protest and sent representatives to Standing Rock.
Many tribes have ''donation centers'' and are gathering needed supplies that will be shipped to the Standing Rock Sioux.
More people and organizations are joining the fight on a regular basis.
This ain't going away.
As the local sheriff continues to state that the protestors are armed, they have yet to find these ''armed'' Natives.
Of course they are armed, Kavika!
You can see those arms waving in the air to show they are not holding knives, tomahawks, spears, bows and arrows, or GUNS!
More support.
WASHINGTON - September 28, 2016 -
Today, the National Education Association, the nation’s largest professional association representing more than three million educators, expressed solidarity with the Standing Rock Sioux Nation’s sovereign right to protect its people and sacred lands.
The following statement can be attributed to NEA President Lily Eskelsen García:
“We support the sovereign right of the Standing Rock Sioux Nation to preserve their basic human and civil rights, to protect their water, land, natural resources, sacred sites, and their people.
“Native communities have the same right as any other community to live without fear that political decisions will put them in harm's way.
Standing Rock is bigger than just a community in North Dakota. It is symbolic that we have moved from a time when communities of color who have faced a history of oppression and environmental racism were expected to be silent. Standing Rock has every right to challenge the business interests they believe threaten their homes, their families and their way of life.“Standing Rock is bigger than just a community in North Dakota. It is symbolic that we have moved from a time when communities of color who have faced a history of oppression and environmental racism were expected to be silent. Standing Rock has every right to challenge the business interests they believe threaten their homes, their families and their way of life.”
This is surprising to me. The NEA is not in the habit of sticking its neck out when it is embattled with so many issues of its own. I am impressed.
Oregon SEIU union, 55,000 members supports the Standing Rock Sioux.
And more...These are non Indian groups in North and South Dakota.
WORC supports Standing Rock Sioux Tribe protest August 30, 2016
Chair of WORC Nancy Hartenhoff-Crooks released the following statement today supporting the ongoing protest of the Dakota Access Pipeline by the Standing Rock Sioux Tribe:
Two of WORC’s member groups, Dakota Rural Action (South Dakota) and Dakota Resource Council (North Dakota), have adopted resolutions opposing the pipeline. A third member group, Western Native Voice , has issued a statement supporting the Standing Rock Sioux Tribe.
Feds say they won't evict sprawling pipeline protest camp
The sprawling encampment that's a living protest against the four-state Dakota Access pipeline has most everything it needs to be self-sustaining — food, firewood, fresh water and shelter. Everything, that is, except permission to be on the federal land in North Dakota.
Federal officials say they won't evict the Oceti Sakowin, or Seven Council Fires camp, due to free speech reasons, even though it's on U.S. Army Corps of Engineers land near the confluence of the Missouri and Cannonball rivers that many Native Americans believe is still rightfully owned by the Standing Rock Sioux under a nearly 150-year-old treaty.
"We're not leaving until we defeat this big black snake," camp spokesman Cody Hall said of the pipeline.
But residents in the area have expressed feeling unsafe and frustrated with how the protest has swelled to scores of self-described "water protectors" who have joined the tribe's fight, and Republican U.S. Rep. Kevin Cramer — North Dakota's lone voice in the House — says the camp is illegal. He blames the agency for looking the other way.
"If that camp was full of people advocating for fossil fuels, they would have been removed by now," Cramer said. "There is some discretionary enforcement going on."
Ranchers claiming they are afraid of the Indians and that they are "seeing guns in the back of pickups. We are locking our doors now, too, and nobody around here ever locked their door before." Right! Cause Indians are just a bunch of thieves and marauding raiders who will probably scalp them in their sleep.... ROFLMAO
Read more here:
Anarchists should be dealt with.
Yes they should...
But they'll have to look somewhere other than Cannon Ball ND to find them.
The link to mimis article today
"People don't leave from the camp with malicious intent to do harm," Hall said. "There are always going to be a few bad eggs in any group you can't get the message to."
Ranchers and farmers in the area are wary of the growing number of protesters and are fearful of damage to their fields and pastures, Morton County Sheriff Kyle Kirchmeier said.
"We've had several reports of people down there getting stopped on the road and being intimidated to hay that has been stolen to grazing animals without permission," he said.
from what I understand , hall is one of the public relations speakers for the protesters , and even he admits , there will always be some "bad eggs " in a group such as this.
I think the rest is self explanatory , damage to fields where protesters have no right to be , theft of hay or even unauthorized grazing of their animals on private property, even though I stand with the protesters in principle , I do not stand with the theft from local residents if they choose not to do business with them such as selling hay or pasturing others livestock . if they couldn't feed them on the BLM range or bring forage , they shouldn't have brought them . feeding the protesters livestock is not the locals problem.
but that's my opinion , follow the link and read the whole article , in its entirety.
I wanna see this in court and I wanna see the ND pos's locked up 'til hell freezes over.
"the camp is illegal."??????????
"If that camp was full of people advocating for fossil fuels, they would have been removed by now,"????????????
"residents in the area have expressed feeling unsafe and frustrated"????????????
Here's the thing I am worried about...
the ranchers are talking about "being afraid" and "locking our doors for the first time ever" and "being harassed" when they go outside and "seeing guns" in the back of pickups; they are talking about how they are "going strapped" themselves now. I feel they are deliberately setting the Indians up so they can shoot them and claim self defense.
The tribe needs to hire a third party to monitor the situation and take constant video. It is obvious the local and state police are biased and the oil company will not allow this multi-billion dollar project to be stopped, even lawfully. And with the ranchers selling property for above top dollar so the oil company can have property rights access, the protesters need to be very wary.
I just don't know if the Native Americans will fully realize that even the support of the federal government will protect them from the machinations of the greed at play here.
It was recently posted about a policewoman who shot herself in the leg and declared that a black person did it. I would not put it past the ranchers and locals who will benefit financially from the pipeline to do the same in order to declare gun violence on the part of the protesters and have them banned.
Buzz,
There is a site called "blogspot" that has photos and on site videos but I can't copy any of them, it isn't allowed. If you can access it, it is worth the read, especially the comment section from the readers who, the day law enforcement was there with military-type equipment, drew guns on women and children, had helicopters dropping some type of chemical on them (the wind blew it away... lol, the NAs said their wind spirits took care of them)... these people said they were censored and blocked from posting messages and videos on both Facebook and Twitter, that they tried to send information and videos to major news media and were ignored, so they sent it to the BBC and other European outlets who were broadcasting it.
Buzz,
There is a site called "blogspot" that has photos and on site videos but I can't copy any of them, it isn't allowed. If you can access it, it is worth the read, especially the comment section from the readers who, the day law enforcement was there with military-type equipment, drew guns on women and children, had helicopters dropping some type of chemical on them (the wind blew it away... lol, the NAs said their wind spirits took care of them)... these people said they were censored and blocked from posting messages and videos on both Facebook and Twitter, that they tried to send information and videos to major news media and were ignored, so they sent it to the BBC and other European outlets who were broadcasting it.
I can't open it. I can't open any private blog sites here. Someone who can open it should copy and post it here.
It won't allow me to even copy the text, Buzz. I don't know if anyone who has a scanner can scan it or not and then post it. I hope so. There is a great comment on the sideline about Crazy Horse. If someone can't scan and post it, I will have to write it all out and with my crippled hands it will be agonizing.
It's important but not SO important that you should cause yourself that much trouble. Please don't bother.
For clarification, it is the farmers/ranchers who are putting "more guns in the back of pickup trucks" - not the Indians.
Republican state Rep. James Schmidt, who also farms and ranches nearby, said he and his neighbors are more cautious.
“I’m starting to see a lot more guns in the back of pickup trucks. All it is going to take is one incident and emotions are going to overtake the situation,” he said. -
So he is saying it is the ranchers who are arming themselves in anticipation of needing to use them against non-armed Indians?
Thank you for that clarification, 1stwarrior. I will have to keep scanning any mention of this in the other social medias; yesterday I saw articles where the people commenting had misunderstood, as I did, exactly who he was accusing of having guns in trucks, due to the way it was written.
So he is saying it is the ranchers who are arming themselves in anticipation of needing to use them against non-armed Indians?
Thank you for that clarification, 1stwarrior. I will have to keep scanning any mention of this in the other social medias; yesterday I saw articles where the people commenting had misunderstood, as I did, exactly who he was accusing of having guns in trucks, due to the way it was written. When I see mention of it again, I will address it.
(If this double posts, I apologize. For some reason, a lot of my stuff has been appearing twice.)
1st , the camp cant be illegal if the government holds sway and wont evict, which is the case here I initially saw the article posted on my MSN feed and read it and the comments to that particular article on MSN , and a number of commenters were comparing this protest to the Oregon occupation of last winter , though I see some real differences .
the frustration I think is self explainatory if you read the whole article, those local ranchers and locals period , are trying to make a living as well , and I think it speaks volumes that the locals try not to say anything ( as per the article) out of fear of physical intimidation , makes me think they are not on the protesters side in this , at least where it affects their livelihood , the way they live or whatever.
My thought is if there has been theft , then these folks are not just peaceful protesters, peaceful protesters don't have to steal to get their point across.
Mark - I "personally" don't believe there has been any theft. I have the feeling that the county Sheriff, who is very openly aggressive and biased against the Native "Protectors", is having his personnel spread rumors about the "evil" that the protectors are doing - when, in fact, there is no validity.
I truly believe the protectors are doing as law-abiding citizens should do - if they need anything, they purchase it themselves or they use the supplies that are being sent to them. I think I remember reading somewhere that there have been trucks that have brought hay as food stuff for the horses.
Mimi, from day one the governor and the local sheriff have used this play on fear of the Indians as part of the overall misinformation campaign. The governor called in the National Guard, and declared a state of emergency. The local sheriff claimed that the protestors had pipe bombs and Molotov cocktails. Which he later had to admit wasn't true. Constant ''claims'' of masked Indians, Indians with weapons circulate without any proof of it being true. Tell the big lie enough times and everyone will believe it.
The major news agencies have not reported on this and take their information from the sheriff. The smaller news agencies are there in person filming and they have yet to see weapons. The clergy is there in person and have never see these so called ''weapons''...It's the ''big lie'' all over again, mimi.
The elders, women and children there, must have weapons hidden on them, don't cha know.
I have deep roots through out ND, SD and MN. Friends and relatives are at the camp, it is peaceful and without weapons.
The Standing Rock Sioux have asked the DOJ to send in observers to stop this misinformation campaign. I hope that it happens, but not sure that it will.
This is no different than every other time that Indians protest. The really big change is the number of people involved in this and the support rolling in from around the world. As the protests grow, and more and more organizations join and support it, it will become impossible for the major news outlets to avoid reporting on it.
And except for a few politicians that have supported and actually gone to Standing Rock the rest of the political world pretends it doesn't exist.
Major organizations have voiced their support, yet it's near impossible to find that information presented to the nation from the major news organizations.
Yes, we are well aware of how the government and greed play into this. We have 500 years of experience.
There is a lot of stuff the main stream media is refusing to report, Kavika. The difference between now and Wounded Knee is that there was no Internet or other social media in 1973; but I am surprised someone hasn't "recapped" Wounded Knee and the deaths there blamed on the Native Americans.
There have been over 100 arrests of Native Americans so far.
FREE LEONARD PELTIER!!
Kavika - As these folks are "Indian" and the county/state folks are non-Indian, PL 280 is not the authority of ND - they didn't even sign the option availability.
Indian tribes retain concurrent criminal jurisdiction over Indians in P.L. 280 states. That is the shared view of the Federal Government and the vast majority of courts that have directly considered the issue.
(1) "Indian country" is defined by 18 U.S.C. sec. 1151 to include all areas within a reservation, trust allotments, and dependent Indian communities. Courts interpret section 1151 to include all lands held in trust for tribes or their members. See United States v. Roberts. 185 F.3d\\25(WhClr.\999).
Now, Mark, correct me if I'm wrong here - but - when the ACOE granted the protectors a "special use" permit, that placed the area designated as "Trust", i.e., under the protection of the Feds. As such, ND has absolutely no jurisdiction over the Special Use Designated Area - it still belongs to the ACOE.
WOW! 1stwarrior, does that mean that any arrests made by the local and state police are invalid if they came onto the trust land?
You betcha - only Feds have jurisdiction on trust lands. In "some" cases, there may be joint jurisdiction with the state, but that is only within the PL 280 states - but Feds have priority when dealing with Indian/tribes/nations.
And just so I understand, North Dakota is NOT a PL280 state?
No ma'am. SD is but not ND.
Somehow the authorities have the names of all the Native Americans there... I think. A warrant was issued on the 15th for a young man for an incident of criminal trespass on September 3rd. He wasn't even at the camp on the 3rd, but when he heard about it he turned himself in to clear things up with the court. When he arrived he was arrested and told there was no bond and had to spend the night in jail. The charge is a misdemeanor... no bond, on a misdemeanor charge. He was kept in a small, cold room until 4a.m. after he had talked with an attorney.
The charge was dropped but he was warned that it could be "refiled." Why could they refile it when he wasn't even there on that day and they know it, and violated his civil rights by denying bail on a misdemeanor charge? Sounds like a threat to me but then I get my exercise by jumping to conclusions...
The oil company has blatantly defied the court order to stop all construction within a 20 mile buffer on both sides of the Missouri River, and the state of ND and the Morton County sheriff's department have refused to enforce the federal court order.
It could be that the authorities are just keeping a very close watch on who joins the Sioux camp.. and the young man is Lakota Greg Grey Cloud who is an activist for missing and murdered women. His name is known as an activist so I suppose authorities wanted to intimidate him into not going into "activist" mode while in Morton County. Guess they haven't got the message that Native Americans have rights, too and the Sioux especially are not all that easily intimidated...
Off the reservation, Indians have the same Constitutionally guaranteed Civil Rights that everyone else enjoys. Yup - his attorney needs to slap some wrists.
1st not quite sure what your asking me , and I am still learning everyday whats what out here where I live.
As for permits , if the issuing authority has authority over said lands , then I would using common sense have to say those permits are indeed valid, anything after that I am over my head and only speak as to what I think is right and wrong.
I can attest that jurisdiction is something I have had to deal with my rather short time here, from a legal standpoint , if something happens here , I have to call the county via the BIA, the county has no jurisdiction outside my property , and the BIA since I am non enrolled have no jurisdiction on my property , and the mutual aide agreements around here are sketchy to say the least and often at odds with one another due to inter agency rivalrys, different way of doing things is what I attribute it to , but the top wrung on the ladder is both the FBI and the US marshals they retain jurisdiction. at least here.
and the last thing I will touch on , whether to call them protectors or protesters, that's a politically correct public relations manifestation similar to the abortion issue , notice , pro life or pro choice, opposite sides of the issue but mean the same thing . each just sounds better to whomever is being swayed. these protectors are indeed protesting , and I stand with their right to protest and with why they are protesting , I just wont be sucked into the world of political correctness as to have to watch my verbage . and neither should anyone else IMHO.
and in closing , I will ask ever watch the movie little big man? I don't see native vs white or any other melatonin content , hell I am native born to this land , meaning I was born here its my home as well , so I don't view it as a difference in color of skin , I view us all , as human beings and as human beings even with the differences , should live as we know is right , and wrong , knowing there are those even among us that would use the differences to tear us apart. that pretty much sums up my ethos I think. we are all different , yet we are all the same.
It hasn't been mentioned in the main stream media, either, that a woman was targeted and beheaded by a Muslim in Oklahoma.
Today Obama turned over control of the Internet to a corporation in California that has on its board civil rights activists. The Internet is supposed to be a place for everyone to have a voice, even those we find unpalatable.
Lately when trying to read news articles the page will freeze up and an ad will cover it saying I need to subscribe to the source of the article to continue to read it. That's already having to pay to know what's happening in the news, and with this move, I see more of it coming, a form of blackmail.
I know that Indians have had over 500 years of experience with the treachery of the governments of America; I was just hoping they weren't putting a lot of faith in the fact that they are not harboring weapons to keep them from harm. And I hope there are people there going among the younger ones to ensure they aren't hiding any weapons; as we all know, a group this large with such a diversity of people is bound to have some hotheads.
I fear for those there, especially the children. One thing is certain, though, if violence results in the death of any of the white or international people who have joined the Native Americans, it will be like pouring gasoline on a raging fire, and the situation with Native Americans in this country will become the top subject in governments around the world. It isn't "just Indians" like it was in Wounded Knee.
Hoka Hey
Lately when trying to read news articles the page will freeze up and an ad will cover it saying I need to subscribe to the source of the article to continue to read it. That's already having to pay to know what's happening in the news, and with this move, I see more of it coming, a form of blackmail.
Some news sites feel subscriptions are a way for them to make money. If it flops they go back to the freebies. There is no conspiracy behind it.
It just feels like it, I suppose. News has been one of those nebulous "rights" that Americans take for granted and to be told I have to pay to read the news is just not.... right.
And I am wary of the new overseers of the Internet.
If you go to this address you will see clear and up close photos of the military maneuvers used on the protesters at Standing Rock. I could not copy them, was given a message that "this function not allowed here."
If you read the comments posted on blogspot, you will see many, many comments from people saying they posted comments and videos to Facebook, yet they never appeared... were blocked. You will also see comments from people saying that Twitter has blocked them from commenting. They are amazed that Facebook and Twitter, two social media outlets that are touted as the conscience of "truth" in news for the common people, will not allow them to post on this situation.
Some of them say they have sent comments and videos to news outlets such as CNN and others... failing to receive any feedback or see any coverage, they sent the information to BBC and other European outlets and it is being broadcast overseas. The phrase "using chemical warfare on its own people" is being used.
There was a small notice I found on FB that said "Type "YES" if you want FB to stop censoring the speech to the UN and coverage of the protest of the water protectors." I have tried several times to copy the address to post here and to find it in a browser but to no avail. Now I can't find it again on my FB page.
FB and twitter, just goes to show you that the phony bastards have the backbone of a jellyfish.
Check the group and there is a article from the Warrior Camp on this exact subject, Mimi.
Those with Facebook accounts, here is where you can find comments from people who were there, how others feel about it, and videos. Those without Facebook, it is worth it to see if you have a friend who will pull it up for you.
ICTM, Native New On-Line, and the Last Real Indians have quite a few videos from Standing Rock.
There seemed to be some skepticism that FB was really censoring the feeds and comments coming from and supporting the water protectors. It is for real, and Twitter was also.
blogspot/Censored News says that the same oil company was given a special presidential permission to dig a pipeline to Mexico in the Big Bend region of Texas. They are currently destroying ancient burial sites in Trap Springs.
To add insult to grievous injury, the oil company has named its pipelines "Dakota" and "Comanche."
They are facing strong resistance from the people of Texas, mimi...The fight is spreading all over the country.
If the people in CA with the water problem could be connected to the fight of Native Americans to save their own water, it would become a nation-wide movement that encompasses everyone and not just the Indians. Turning the fight into one for water instead of one for indigenous people only, would drive the nail in the coffin.
While the fight is about water, those opposing the fight are trying to turn it into a Native American "thing" and brushing over the water issue, trying to make it get lost.
Those with Facebook accounts, here is where you can find comments from people who were there, how others feel about it, and videos. Those without Facebook, it is worth it to see if you have a friend who will pull it up for you.
Link to a story on BBC...They actually sent a reporter to Standing Rock.
In the article they said that supporters have come from as far away as Maine and CA. To add to that, there are Indigenous people from Mexico, Canada, Mexico, Puerto Rico, New Zealand, Ecuador, Honduras and Samoa.
Life in the Native American oil protest camps
An Indian reservation in North Dakota is the site of the largest gathering of Native Americans in more than 100 years. Indigenous people from across the US are living in camps on the Standing Rock reservation as they protest the construction of a new oil pipeline. As a result, a new community has emerged. The BBC's Charlie Northcott went to North Dakota to meet the protesters and discover what goes on in camp.
Peter Francis, of the Sioux people, has spent a week hauling iron pots between a holding tank and an open fire to maintain a continuous flow of boiling water for tea and cooking. He is staying in the Red Warrior Camp, one of two enormous gatherings of Native American people near the Cannonball River, in the US state of North Dakota. He stands, united, in protest against an oil pipeline. "This is about water," he said, referring to the protest. "Water is the life of our people. Without it, we cannot exist."
The Red Warrior Camp is situated in a remote corner of the Standing Rock Sioux Reservation, near the confluence of the Missouri and Cannonball rivers. The multi-billion dollar oil pipeline the campers are opposing is slated to pass beneath the Missouri, just north of Standing Rock. The protesters say the pipeline will despoil a number of sacred sites in the area, including the flooded forest pictured here, which used to be a burial ground. The bleached trees are said to be the skeletons of Lakota Dakota spirits.
Life in the camps is often quiet. Whole families have based themselves there, having driven from as far afield as Maine and Arizona - hundreds of miles across America. Hours are spent around camp fires, sharing stories and food. Traditional Native American staples are on the menu, including sweet corn, peppers, beans and fry bread, which is eaten sweet and savoury.
A cohort of young men patrol the Red Warrior Camp calling themselves "spirit riders." They spend most of their time running errands and delivering messages. They are excellent riders, often going bareback, sometimes without reins, occasionally galloping in the nearby floodplain. The Sioux people have a long history of horsemanship, defeating the US army repeatedly in pitched horse battles in the 1800s - most famously at the Battle of Little Bighorn, where the invading cavalry commander George Custer was killed.
Hawste Wakiyan Wicasa believes the Native American standoff with Dakota Access is the last Great Indian War. "This is the first time the seven bands of the Sioux have come together since Little Bighorn," he said. "Now, we have no weapons, only prayers." Mr Wicasa says he prays every morning and every night in the sweat lodge pictured behind him. "We are here for what our ancestors fought and died for. We have endured 250 years of betrayal by the white man."
The company behind the oil pipeline, Dakota Access LLC, says it will create thousands of jobs and generate over $40m (£30.5m) in tax revenue for the state of North Dakota. Seven counties will be traversed in total, in addition to the states of Iowa, Illinois and South Dakota. The pipeline will follow the line of the power cables visible in the backdrop of this picture, as seen from the outer edge of the Red Warrior Camp.
Amihan, 19, pictured here with a friend she made in the Sacred Stone Camp, drove from Ohio to participate in the protest. Many protesters have been living in the camps for weeks, but some are just passing through. Standing Rock has seen hundreds of young indigenous people and activists visit, eager to take part in the historic gathering. Over 80 different tribes have a presence in the area.
On most days, demonstrations take place along the road leading to the Dakota Access pipeline construction site. Participants wave flags representing different tribal nations. In some cases, they obstruct trucks and diggers approaching the pipeline. Over 20 Native American protesters have been arrested in the month of August, including the chairman of the Standing Rock Sioux Tribe, David Archambault II.
Pancho, pictured here, is from the Standing Rock Reservation. He has been protesting against the pipeline since April, and worries the camps are becoming overcrowded and that local supplies are overstretched. "We know this place can't handle many more people," he said, standing in the Sacred Stone Camp. "Resources are stretched. Our community does not have a lot of money."
Clyde Bellecourt is one of the founders of the American Indian Movement, a significant civil rights group in the 1960s and 70s. In all his days fighting for Native American rights, he says he has never seen anything like the camps. "I am 80 years old," he said. "I've been jailed, I've been shot. This is the most beautiful thing I have ever seen. This is what I fought for."
At the centre of the Red Warrior Camp is a microphone, and at night, a blazing fire. Anyone can stand up and speak or sing. Here, Dallas Goldtooth, an organiser for the Indigenous Environmental Network, delivers a speech about camp logistics. "The porta potties [toilets] are the most expensive things here," he said, to a chorus of laughter. "Please do your stuff neatly."
For children, the protest camps are a playground of excitement. Dogs run wild, horses are available to be ridden. The two camps are close to the river, which offers relief in the humidity of summer.
Govinda Dalton is one of an older generation of environmental activists living in the camp. He runs Spirit Resistance Radio 87.9 out of his white van. Social media use by young Native Americans has been the driving force behind the growth of the protest, led by hashtags like #waterislife, #NoDakotaAccess and #nodapl. Instagram and Facebook have been the most popular mediums, but Twitter is also being used. "This is what it's about man," said Mr Dalton.
Sacred ceremonies, many of them private and closed to outsiders, are part of the everyday life of the camp. Each tribe brings its own set of customs, but many find common ground with songs, chanting and pipe-smoking rituals. Here Chloe Piepho says a prayer to Mni Wiconi, the sacred waters of life, in the Lakota Sioux language.
Johnelle, pictured front, is always in a rush. She is the emergency response coordinator for the Standing Rock Sioux tribe. She runs a logistics team, with finance, medical and media officers. Looking out for the lives of thousands of visitors has been a challenge, but she relishes it. "If we find out there is something people need," she said, "whether it be food, soap or medical supplies, we will find it for them."
The human rights organisation Amnesty International, pictured here interviewing Ladonna Brave Bull, is investigating whether Native American liberties have been infringed. Local law enforcement have blocked a major road to and from the Red Warrior Camp, citing the interest of public safety. Residents of the camp say the blockage prevents them from picking up basic supplies from their nearest city, Bismarck.
Security, cleaning and cooking are all handled by volunteers in the two protest camps. Some of have been told to keep track of the media, who are scantly trusted. "We don't bother them," said Xavier Long Feather, a 17-year-old volunteer on the security team. "But it's good to keep watch, to see who is here."
On 9 September, a major decision will be made regarding the Red Warrior Camp and its protesters. A judicial court will decide whether the Dakota Access pipeline should proceed, or be halted for further environmental and archaeological assessments. "This is the biggest gathering of its kind in history," said Keith Lussier, on the camps. "We will stand our ground if we have to."
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A wonderful pictorial essay, Kavika. If my grandson had not left me, I would be there. (Would probably be in jail by now...)
Great source and thread Kavika.
If the people in CA with the water problem could be connected to the fight of Native Americans to save their own water, it would become a nation-wide movement that encompasses everyone and not just the Indians. Turning the fight into one for water instead of one for indigenous people only, would drive the nail in the coffin.
While the fight is about water, those opposing the fight are trying to turn it into a Native American "thing" and brushing over the water issue, trying to make it get lost.
Mark, here is my opinion. These reports are coming from the local sheriff. This is the same sheriff that said the Indians had pipe bombs and Molotov cocktails which he later had to admit were not true. Anything coming from him is suspect.
Admitting that there are ''bad apples'' doesn't say anything about there were real crimes that he was aware of.
If, and I say ''IF'' the theft of hay or illegal grazing is really proven, than those responsible should be punished. The other side of that is, if this is really happening why hasn't anyone be caught? There are hundreds of LEO's an NG in the area, ya think the whole thing might be BS?
Spread the fear is the best way to destroy a movement or protest. It been used for decades against Indians and anyone getting in the way of what the money wants. Ask some of the non Indian ranchers in the Dakota's that are being intimidated by the ''big money'' because they are fighting the pipeline. Or the non Indian people fighting Wind turbines, or the people in Texas fighting the Ben Bend pipeline.
As far as intimidation goes, this is probably the first time in their lifetime that Indians have outnumbered non Indians in the area. You know, those crazy Indians might go on the War Path. To much old west BS.
BTW, this comment was supposed to be right under yours Mark. How it ended up down here is a mystery.
BS , I cant say , what I can say from experience , I had an appy stud , follow my neighbors mare home , no brand , nothing and we couldn't keep him with the mare , called the brand inspector , never showed , called BIA, never showed, 2 days later after a little self investigation found the owner, his hands came and got it , they had no clue it was on my property, safely penned so it didn't get on the highway. they didn't care it was free feed to them. county cops wont handle livestock unless its on a roadway, and I doubt the NG would handle it either ,when it comes to livestock and agriculture , that's a whole different set of circumstances.
the way I read the article I think there has been something , how bad who can say , the protesters want to keep the peaceful image , the cops (and NG) don't want to escalate things , your most likely right the locals haven't felt this outnumbered since the little bighorn, and most likely not something they are not use to , I tell them get use to it its what I live with every day, just use common sense.
I'll most likely say to a couple council members I know out here they might want to start thinking of sending some forage and hay to the camp for the horses, and say it in such a way so that its to avoid problems.
I read about this yesterday. My feeling was that if the Indians were stealing hay the ranchers would have reported it to the authorities and they would have been at the protest site faster than Harry Potter could fly his broom from the Griffindor dorm to Hagrid's cottage. Hay has its own signature in the way it is baled... the string used and the composite of the hay. It would have been easy to prove if any hay being fed to the Indian's horses was pilfered from the ranchers. For that matter, I find it hard to believe the ranchers haven't had guards posted since the protest began to prevent just this type of thing from happening.
As for the grazing, you have to remember this is "ranch" land and there is public land there also. I have been on trail rides where we have tied our horses or hobbled them on the side of the road (well away from the traffic, of course) which is the twelve feet designated as belonging to the county and not to the person who owns the property there. At least, that is the way it is in Massachusetts and Tennessee and Alabama, and Mississippi.
I just don't think that with all the animosity involved here and the attitude of law enforcement, that the Indians would jeopardize their position with hay theft. And if they had, they would be in jail, and that theft would be grounds to make the camp disperse. In that region of the country, hay is worth its weight in gold when winter sets in and I can tell you from hefting bales of it myself, the weight is astounding. Theft of it from ranchers would be akin to stealing a man's horse in the Old West, almost a hanging offense. Have you ever seen any pictures of video of helicopters trying to drop hay to cattle during winter snow, or heard of farmers around the country donating whatever they could to midwest ranchers during bitter winter? Stealing hay would be a felony in that area of the country and there would already be arrests.
That is a great idea, Mark. Forget my other post and the questions I asked; you quite obviously know all about hay.....
only things I know about hay is its the main ingriedient of bull shit , and when it dries out its a fire danger of spontaneously combusting in the right conditions, oh and that its worth a lot of money , so much so it can make or break a rancher if they have too much or not enough especially in cold climate areas.
The summer can be rough too if there is not enough rain to get several cuts off the fields, and if there is too much rain you can't cut it. If it is cut and rains before the sun can cure it and it's baled and fed to horses it can cause colic and kill them. That's why I said it's worth its weight in gold and is almost a hanging offense if you steal it from those growing it for their own livestock.
Mimi , out here , 3-4 cuts is a good year , not several and most around here have switched from small bales( one a person could move) to the bigger bale that need equipment to move , like 2-3 ton bales , discourages it from growing legs and walking away, its getting harder and harder to find small bales , I use the small bales as archery targets then when they rot I till it into my garden in the fall.
The gentleman who brings the round rolls to my horse says he cannot find anyone willing to work in the fields to stack the hay on trucks or take it off the trucks and stack it in the barns any more. And he said baling it in "square bales" (they aren't square any more but rectangular) is more expensive in machinery upkeep than baling round rolls, plus round rolls can be kept in the open with a tarp over them, whereas square bales have to be put up in waterproof barns.
Lane said his insurance agent even told him he could lower his insurance premium if he baled only the round rolls because there had been too many barn fires caused by square bales. If they become damp or are baled even slightly damp then tightly stacked, the heat of the summer in the barn can cause spontaneous combustion. And, the agent said his company was getting harder to convince all the fires were "spontaneous."
I read about this yesterday. My feeling was that if the Indians were stealing hay the ranchers would have reported it to the authorities and they would have been at the protest site faster than Harry Potter could fly his broom from the Griffindor dorm to Hagrid's cottage. Hay has its own signature in the way it is baled... the string used and the composite of the hay. It would have been easy to prove if any hay being fed to the Indian's horses was pilfered from the ranchers. For that matter, I find it hard to believe the ranchers haven't had guards posted since the protest began to prevent just this type of thing from happening.
As for the grazing, you have to remember this is "ranch" land and there is public land there also. I have been on trail rides where we have tied our horses or hobbled them on the side of the road (well away from the traffic, of course) which is the twelve feet designated as belonging to the county and not to the person who owns the property there. At least, that is the way it is in Massachusetts and Tennessee and Alabama, and Mississippi.
I just don't think that with all the animosity involved here and the attitude of law enforcement, that the Indians would jeopardize their position with hay theft. And if they had, they would be in jail, and that theft would be grounds to make the camp disperse. In that region of the country, hay is worth its weight in gold when winter sets in and I can tell you from hefting bales of it myself, the weight is astounding. Theft of it from ranchers would be akin to stealing a man's horse in the Old West, almost a hanging offense. Have you ever seen any pictures of video of helicopters trying to drop hay to cattle during winter snow, or heard of farmers around the country donating whatever they could to midwest ranchers during bitter winter? Stealing hay would be a felony in that area of the country and there would already be arrests.
I apologize, Kavika, for going off subject on the hay; just trying to lay groundwork for how serious a bale of stolen hay can really be and as an excuse for confrontation, it IS one.
I apologize, Kavika, for going off subject on the hay; just trying to lay groundwork for how serious a bale of stolen hay can really be and as an excuse for confrontation, it IS one.
(Sorry, it double posted again. And I just had a picture in my head of ten or so Indians in the dark of night rolling of those huge round rolls through a pasture, one of them with his finger to his lips going, "Sssshhhhh!" .... a total impossibility)