Shame! by badfish

It's taken me a bit to be able to formulate some kind of comment here.  So, I'm going to speak from my heart, and do my best, ok?

I understand how you feel.  I feel the same way.  It IS shameful that both of our candidates are so flawed-- but then, I think of my Daddy, who was flawed, and how very much I loved him, and how much I trusted him.  You couldn't count on Daddy to come to your defense, automatically, but in the end, after he had thought about it, he usually did.

I don't blame you for feeling that you don't want to vote for anybody running.  Why not write in someone you do like?  Why not write in Colin Powell or someone?  I once wrote in my husband's name-- yes, it was a wasted vote, but it was the only choice I could see at the time that made me feel good.

I'm am voting for Hillary, despite her flaws.  Why?  Because the thought of a Trump president representing my country makes me physically ill.  It doesn't matter to me how dishonest Clinton may be, she's better than he is.  And what is the truth about all this dishonesty?  Is it real, or is it lies and innuendo?  Did all this really happen, or is it like most of us, we have to compromise to survive.  I think she very probably had to compromise her real feelings and principles to survive in many cases.  I don't think she is as bad as she is being painted.  Trump, on the other hand, IS.  I don't think he can possibly relate to other people, in any way.  I don't think he cares about anything but himself.  My antennae are focused on my distrust of him as a person.  I've dealt with too many people like him to trust him, and my radar is flashing danger.

On the other had, I see Mrs. Clinton as being someone who's been thrust into the spotlight and done her best, in many ways.  None of us accomplish everything we've set out to do-- all we can do is set out to do the best we can, to work with the existing system to get what we can do, done.  

None of us are perfect.  I'm certainly not.  But I try my best to be a good person, a kind and caring person, and even though I don't always make it-- I'm trying.

Take care, BF.  I did my best.

I was planning on voting for Johnson, but the Aleppo thing and a couple of other glaring mistakes make him a non-starter. I'm just going to leave the Presidential line of the ballot vacant. 

This election has left me more pessimistic about the future of the country than I've ever been. The next four years will be a disaster. In 2020, someone, democrat or republican, will have to step up who has a chance of uniting the country before it's permanently fractured. Either of these two candidates will just make it worse. 

Kudos on your comment, Sean. 

Both of the top 2 candidates disgust me-they are both, in their own ways, unqualified to take the highest office in the land.  Did anyone think it was a coincidence that 2000 e-mails were dropped by wikileaks, then an hour later an 11 year old recording of a crude conversation surfaces and dominates the news?  Anyone that thinks this is a coincidence is an idiot.  Some of the things coming out of the leaked e-mails is that the Clinton Campaign illegally coordinated Super PACs.  While Trump is crude, rude and socially unacceptable, we find that the Clinton Campaign is criminal.  And yet, we still think she would be a good President?  Again, neither one, as far as I'm concerned.  I was leaning towards a Johnson vote, but as Sean noted, he is a bit off.  I wonder if he knows where South America is?  I saw the following yesterday, a little rude, but funny, please take it in the funny manner it's meant:

I feel the same way but I am still voting for him because it is the only chance we have of breaking the duopoly and getting more choices.

I'm willing to bet you that you could ask either of the two candidates - and our current president - where Abidjan is and none of them would know.  (Google it - it has regional significance, both historically and governmentally).

If someone is going to base their decision on voting on the fact that someone doesn't know where a city is - your priorities are in the wrong place.  Why do you think the Administration has advisors?  Simple - to keep the Prex from making comments such as "I'm not sure."

Gary Johnson and Mike Weld have both been EXTREMELY successful in their positions of two-term governors of their states - no histronics, no lies, no jail time, no locker room talk, no telling Congress to go futch themselves, no bankruptcies of their private businesses - and the "blinded" fail to look at those positives.

Instead - "oh shit - he said a nasty word" - "Oh shit - she lied to Congress" - and those are your choices??????

My most concern with Clinton is - why do they need so much money, if their life long goals and purposes are to help other people? The Clintons are now worth between 60 and 120 million dollars depending on who you believe. Why weren't they happy to stop at say 20 million. Maybe they would have saved themselves a lot of grief. 

Why did Hillary Clinton charge 250,000 dollars per speech? Who knows? Why did Donald trump charge 500,000 and up per speech?  The answer would seem to be because they could. Should Clinton have said, don't give me 250,000, give me 5% of that?   That would be like Trump volunteering to pay taxes, wouldn't it? 

Back in 1998 when Bill Clinton was found to have deposited his seed on Monica's blue dress, I called for Clinton to resign. He had disgraced the office. I don't think the oval office that American citizens visit with reverence and awe should have been used for blowjobs, and then lies about it.  So I don't forgive everything that Democrats do. 

When I start to comment about a topic in the news, I end up usually reading a lot about it. When this election started, I didn't know a lot about Donald Trump. Then I watched a two hour documentary about him, and read quite a few articles. Looked up old newspaper stories.  This is someone who has been personally corrupt all his life. Just as bad, he knows nothing pertaining to the qualifications for the job he is seeking. There are four or five long form magazine pieces about Trump from the 80's and 90's that are well known in the journalism business. All of the writers of these pieces spent time with Trump in order to research what are mini-biographies of him. All of them conclude Trump is a habitual liar. The ghostwriter of trump's own famous book, Art Of The Deal, says Trump is a habitual liar with a sociopathic self-regard and a 3 minute attention span. I don't think all these negative portraits are a conspiracy against Donald Trump, they are who he is. 

Speaking of conspiracies, Trump believes dozens of conspiracy theories himself, a nutty and disturbing fact that disqualifies him from consideration for the presidency all by itself. Why the media never gets into this is inexplicable. 

My most concern with Clinton is - why do they need so much money, if their life long goals and purposes are to help other people?

Why do you assume the two must be mutually exclusive?

My most concern with Clinton is - why do they need so much money, if their life long goals and purposes are to help other people?

Why do you assume the two must be mutually exclusive?

When you get a chance, google "The Giving Pledge". 

It would be a good opportunity to get smarter here (since its impossible to get smarter at that other place 

This is the most logical thing that I've seen you post in quite awhile, BF...That is neither a compliment nor an insult. Simply my view.

I actually spent some time investigating Johnson. His numerous missteps eliminated him as a alternative candidate. Even though I'm a ''tree hugger'' Stein is a non starter. Trump to me is a complete asshole. His comments about Indians in the 1990's where extremely derogatory. Adding to that is his complete ignorance of most everything and his constant attacks on anyone that disagrees with him. That to me, disqualifies him as a presidential candidate.

Clinton is deeply flawed without question. But sadly I will probably vote for her, simply because I think that Trump would destroy the country. I can live with Clinton for four years and after that I hope that either, or both parties can come up with candidates that you don't have to hold your nose when you vote.

Having permanent residency in three other countries beside the US, I hope that I don't have to pull up stakes. Just kidding America is where I belong, after all being we've been here for 20,000 years or more. I've grow to feel like it's home. 

It's funny, looking back on politics and seeing the stuff that other presidents have said and noting how we must have been far less sensitive.  For eye opening quotes, no one was better than LBJ.

Best BF contribution ever. 

Have to agree with you there Sister Mary!

Here's my input.  Some of you may find some of it surprising.  Meh...probably not.

I view this election as America's Brexit.  The rumblings of which have their start at the end of Slick Willie's tenure.  Bush was elected with a Republican majority in both houses.  But the Republican party by then had lost its way.  It was not the conservative party of our fathers.  It was spending money, and expanding government like a drunken Democrat.  Scandals began to rock the party.  And the result was a Democratic controlled House for his last two years. 

When Obama took office, he did so with a Democratic majority in both houses.  And true to form, the overspending and underfunding and government expansion took off like a bat out of hell.  With a promise of Change, America gave the Democrats control.  And they abused it in the eyes of many.  So the inevitable happened.  A new movement took hold.  The Tea Party movement demanded fiscal responsibility from it's Representatives in DC.  And through some pretty upsetting victories, the Republicans gained control of the House.

And that set us up for a couple of years of lame duck government.  And so we rallied and gave the Senate back to the Republicans.  And then we saw what we never wanted to admit.  That the parties are pretty much the same.  Power hungry politicians who will tell you anything to get elected, and then turn a deaf ear to your concerns.  Remember Paul Ryan?  He was the Darling of the Romney/Ryan ticket.  He was the big stick that fought so hard against Obama Care.  He was supposed to be the House's savior after the disaster of John Boehner.  And yet, he isn't. 

The people are tired of getting jerked around.  We are tired of politics as usual.  We let one party play for a few years, then the other.  It should balance us out.  But the fact is, the sins from the middle of Clinton's term (Housing market crash) have pilled up, with no end in sight.  Not from either party.

So the beginning of this election process, with it's multitude of candidates was destined to be interesting.  And it has been.  It was evident to me from the first Trump win, that the people had finally had enough.  And that's true for both Republican and Democrat.  Had the DNC not rigged their primary, Bernie Sanders would be the candidate. 

As for the Republicans, the people were tired of the Republican establishment.  The RNC was either ignorant, disbelieving, or just plain stupid.  The two top contenders were BOTH anti-establishment candidates.  The fact that Trump won out, I fully blame on the RNC.  Far too late, they turned their attention to who the PEOPLE wanted, rather than who they wanted the people to accept.  Had they thrown in behind Ted Cruz sooner, rather than pushing Bush, things would probably have been different.  Ironically,  they are ignoring the lesson of Ronald Reagan, who told the RNC that his base was the Moral Majority, and they could align the party with it, or get run over.  In that same vein, the Conservatives of America have told the RNC that they do not want the Candidate as Usual.  Get on board, or get run over.

So where does that leave us now.  People can try to downplay it, as many on this site will probably do.  But there is a movement across America right now to get away from politics as usual.  And so we are left with two candidates who everybody hates.

Yeah, I'm voting for Trump.  Not because I like the man.  My vote for Donald Trump is my middle finger to America, American Politics, and to the RNC.  To America because they have allowed these two choices, so here you go.  To American Politics because Trump is not a politician as usual.  And to the RNC because fuck you, start listening to your base instead of trying to control it.

Look at the comments here.  Most of them can be lumped into I'm voting for Trump because I hate Hillary, or I'm voting for Hillary because I hate Trump.  When you break it down, a vote for Hillary is a vote for establishment politics.  A vote for Trump is a vote against the establishment.

Here's a reality check.  I'm not worried about a Trump win fucking things up in America.  The simple fact is I have no faith in our Congress to get anything done.  Regardless of who is elected.  I have concerns about Hillary nominating SCOTUS.  But the biggest thing I would love to see is the Brexit movement of America to reject politics as usual.

So vote for Hillary, and vote for politics as usual.  Or vote for Trump and give politics the middle finger.

Bruce, someone who would mock a disabled newspaper reporter in such a cruel , and childish, way as Trump did should never be allowed to be president. 

Someone who is was so gullible as to believe that Barack Obama was born in Kenya on the basis of a forged Kenyan birth certificate should never be allowed to be president. The state of Hawaii Health Dept. was accepting phone inquiries as to Obama's birth certificate in early 2011. If Trump was presidential material, either he would have got on the phone to the Hawaii dept. of health or the governor's office, or had his secretary do it, and his questions about the birth certificate could have been cleared up in 5 minutes. 

Someone who routinely cheated small business contractors out of payment due , and who started a fraudulent business like Trump University, designed to cheat average people out of their life savings should never be president. 

I've got a couple hundred other reasons.

John:

"Someone who wants to save every nickel possible in his personal taxes does not belong in the white house. period. "

STFU.  Your credibility is non-existent.

Okay Bruce, ignore the truth. It is your habit here from day one anyway. No skin off my ass.

How many votes do you think Trump won over when he said last night that he doesnt pay federal income taxes?  ROFL.

He can DO whatever the fuck he wants. He can't do it and expect to get elected president. 

What truth John?  Your truth?  Newsflash:  Hillary has a track record in DC and it stinks.  Want to know what it's done?  Have you paid attention to the news?  Do you see that Russia is gearing up for a war with US over ISIS?  Have you been paying attention to the troubles in Europe with all the Syrian refugees?  How about this:  Did you catch the story about the US Navy Destroyer that was fired upon last night?  Hillary was involved in all that has transpired from her time as SOS.  And from what she has said on the campaign trail, she has no intentions of changing anything this Administration is doing on the Global front.  Find you a bunker, buddy.  If she wins, you may need it.  Hell, we may not even make it to the elections.

Bruce cant argue with what you said , but my F/U vote is going for a 3rd party , not because I think they can win , or because I nessisarily back what they are running on, My sole reason is to get a viable funded 3rd party that pulls both the so called "accepted " parties that have moved so far to the extremes of the paragrim  they leave out everyone else in the middle.

 I don't live in a battle ground or contested state, so my vote wont matter in the race  on the state level or for electoral college votes ,  but my popular vote advances ( hopefully ) the federal funding of a 3rd party( choice ) that if the major parties are smart takes into consideration and they both move back to the center ( from my view very doubtful , but worth a try).

And I also remember parties morph and change so that 3rd party that's unfunded today , may not be the same party that runs in 4 years time.

But I am willing to give it a shot.

 The simple fact is I have no faith in our Congress to get anything done.  Regardless of who is elected.  

The commonly held view is that Wall St people are all conservativse-- and therefore staunch Republicans who want that party to sweep the presidency + both houses. But a lot of them don't-- they like to see Congress controlled by one party, the presidency by the other. Or-- any combination that results in gridlock!

Wjhy? Because they feel that anything the government does only f*cks things up more. Their view is that if the government just let people alone-- things wouldn't be so screwy!

they like to see Congress controlled by one party, the presidency by the other. Or-- any combination that results in gridlock!

Maybe they would like people to work together, but we have two polar opposites now and gridlock is the best remedy for the time being.

"If Hillary Clinton wins, nothing in America will change."

There are two realistic choices.  One of them is an unthinkable disaster of massive proportions, and the other one is just the same old same old.  I'll take the same old same old over self destruction.  I don't have to happy about it, but the choice is clear.  We missed our chance with Bernie Sanders, so we will just have to settle for being ever increasingly vocal about our distaste  over the direction we can't seem to deviate from.

There are two realistic choices.  One of them is an unthinkable disaster of massive proportions, and the other one is just the same old same old.  I'll take the same old same old over self destruction

That's exactly how I feel as well.

It's always better to dance with the devil you know, than to dance with the devil you don't know.

Kav to someone like me saying dance with the devil you know vs dance with the one you don't know  means something that you may not want it to , to me if I dance with the devil I know  the ex wife , I can expect a knife in the back , or some other underhanded attempt to strengthen her position , the devil I don't know would be like buzz suggesting I find a nice Chinese girl that would be appreiciative of me and treat me entirely different , but because of past actions I would still be wary of that proverbial knife in the back.

 so to me dancing with the devil I know after it has been shown to be untenable, untrustworthy and not in line with what I desire and  just doesn't work . so time to sit out the dance.

as for krishs thought a 3rd party vote is useless, it is this election if the hopes are to elect a 3rd party candidate , the winner will be a dem or a repub, not a 3rd party , BUT and its a big but ,  that vote for a 3rd party has a couple pluses to my mind the way I am doing it , it advances to possably gain federal funding in the next go round of elections , it also could possably change both major party platforms when they see they will LOSE a percentage of federal campaign funds to another party , it gives not only me , but future generations another choice they can choose from in future elections , instead of having just the left or right to choose from , it possablely gives them a choice from the middle where compromises can be worked out and are not as ridged and inflexible , how far left or right a centrist party would actually go whatever name it goes under , is yet and remains to be seen. we wont know until its tried . So I'm voting for a 3rd party to give the future more and hopefully better choices . I'm not voting for the present , the present is already fucked with the choices we have made in the last 20 years.

As for gunnys worry about another civil war , that perfect storm of conditions hasn't manifested itself yet , some might say its close or has come close , I cant say one way or the other , but what I recognize is the importance of the choosing the highest judicial authority in the nation and how that choice will affect things ,  something in this matter that needs to be remembered , before the signing of the DOI, every edict that was handed down as a reason to declare independence was supported as legal and upheld by the british courts and magistrates , it is when the people disagreed with the laws that independence was declared , and how did that end up for british rule of law in the colonies ? some will argue it would be a futile action , but the same was said back in 1775, it was said in the 1860s as well during what actually was the 2nd American revolution , if there is to be another one , who knows what side the fates will lie.

With that I will go back to my blackwater medicine and nurse my seasonal ailments , have a good day y'all.

Mark, using your analogy re the X....Look at it this way, if the devil you knew was going to stab you in the back, you, knowing her, would allow you to prepare and avoid it. Now if your Chinese lady was going to stab you in the back, you would never see it coming.

ahhh , but the point is to never get stabbed in the back ... like the movie war games? play thermonuclear war ? only way to win is not play , so how about a nice game of chess?

''How about a nice game of chess'''.....I prefer Chinese Checkers...

If Hillary Clinton wins, nothing in America will change.

I will probably vote for her-- for that very reason!

(Things will definitely change if Trump is elected)

"Someone who wants to save every nickel possible in his personal taxes does not belong in the white house. period. "

Well, that's one way to spin it. But here's another way to describe the situation. Rather than "wanting to save every nickel possible" (Possible meaning "legally"), you could also say:

"Someone who doesn't want to pay even a nickel that they don't owe in his personal taxes does not belong in the white house. period. "

Because if what he did is legal, that he has not avoided paying even a nickle he doesn't owe-- but is not breaking any law. Why shouildanyone pay money they don't owe?

When my accountant does my taxes, he doesn't do anything illegal. But he saves me from paying anything I don't owe (legally). And why not? (If I did my taxes myself, I wouldmn't know all the relevant laws-- and probllby not take deductions that I am legally entitled to).

That's why I use him to do my taxes. (And then there are those damn K-1's-- let him deal with that!)

Has anyone every heard of being property poor?

It's not quite such a bad thing if you have a significant income to go along with it.

Dear Friend Badfish: This is the height of my fall High Holy Day Season.

I am getting caught up on The News Talkers, as with other matters.

I am very pleased to read your article here.

I am equally gratified to see so many rational and positive comments on it.

Hats off to you and most at this discussion thread.

This is what the NT should be about.

Never a substitute for quality.

Please keep articles like this coming.

Peace and Abundant Blessings to One and All.

Enoch.