After this, No Plan to Return

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By:  @community, 9 months ago
Comments: 395 ..

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By A. Mac

I stay away from the FP primarily because the usuals, IMO, have at least one thing in common, that being … they voted for and/or supported in discussions, the CANDIDATE WHO HATES THE SAME PEOPLE THEY DO, that manifested in a number of ways, all of which necessitate their buying the bullshit up-and-down-the-line. To perpetuate and empower a hater-agenda, looking the other way from Trumpisms while summarily accepting all anti-Clinton rhetoric, was requisite.

Trump is already being the very "Crooked Hillary" he claimed Clinton to be; he's already involved in pay-to-play with foreign governments, in violation of the emolument clause of the Constitution, has conflicts-of-interests that will affect his Attorney General appointment, General Services appointments, Labor Department et al. .

America is truly for sale now with Trump the profiteer.

In Trump's America, the Nazis are emboldened and a Republican-controlled Congress will do nothing because it too, in order to maintain power must hold on to its conflicts-of-interest.

The FBI, Russia, bigots and a fucked-up electoral system elected Donald Trump … how the Electoral College is not a violation of the 14th Amendment is beyond me; if a lower number of votes literally and figuratively TRUMPS a higher number of votes, then the EQUAL PROTECTION CLAUSE IS RENDERED MOOT! In fact, the Electoral College process was implemented to do just what it did in the 2016 Presidential election, that being to thwart majority rule for partisan reasons.

Those who bitch about progressives' demonstrations might want to bone up on the Warsaw Uprising …

From April 19 to May 16, 1943, during World War II (1939-45), residents of the Jewish ghetto in Nazi-occupied Warsaw, Poland, staged an armed revolt against deportations to extermination camps. The Warsaw ghetto uprising inspired other revolts in extermination camps and ghettos throughout German-occupied Eastern Europe.

This will be my only FP comment in a political forum until I can't say when.

 

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A. Macarthur
link 11/22/16 11:44:18AM @a-macarthur:

Respond as you will, I have no intention of arguing the points made.

Personal insults towards anyone, innuendo that crosses the CoC line, hate-speak, etc., will prompt me to call for a moderator.

I'll be in the photo/Creative Arts venues.

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Moonchild63
link 11/22/16 05:04:24PM @moonchild63:

👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏 inf.

You are my HERO🏆

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Petey Coober
link 11/23/16 12:38:52AM @petey-coober:

I have no intention of arguing the points made.

Expressing your opinion is NOT "making a point" . I don't know how else to put it ...

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A. Macarthur
link 11/23/16 09:56:04AM @a-macarthur:

A POINT OF ORDER

My article presents a number of SPECIFIC ISSUES/POINTS/QUESTIONS … SPECIFICALLY DELINEATED SO AS TO FOMENT REAL ISSUE-BASED DISCUSSION …

Instead of A DISCUSSION/DEBATE ABOUT THOSE SPECIFIC ISSUES … what do we have … A BITCHING, SHIT-FLINGING LAMENTATION OVER THE FACT THAT I DARED TO RAISE ISSUES, GLOATING, MOCKERY … 

Can't take an articulate position as to why:

• ONE-PERSON-ONE-VOTE is more representative of the electorate than the Electoral College

• Can't refute specifically why the EQUAL PROTECTION CLAUSE APPEARS TO BE VIOLATED WHEN FEWER VOTES TRUMPS A GREATER NUMBER OF VOTES … that's not equal protection … it pro-rates one's vote… it's not the "equitable" protection clause … do you know why the electoral college was implemented in the first place

• Can't intelligently discuss why people demonstrate in fear of history repeating itself

• Can't comprehend that Trump is already being the very "Crooked Hillary" he claimed Clinton to be; he's already involved in pay-to-play with foreign governments, in violation of the emolument clause of the Constitution, has conflicts-of-interests that will affect his Attorney General appointment, General Services appointments, Labor Department et al. .

• Not concerned that the FBI, Russian Hackers and David Duke devotees played key roles in the election outcome?

I am (with point--of-order related exceptions like this), going to remain away from FP/Political discussions, and, for the very reason that WE DON'T HAVE DISCUSSIONS … WE HAVE PISSING CONTESTS AND INSULT FESTS laced with information-free school yard type rants.

Make a fair, specific counter-point, I'll be back to respond.

Do the usual… then look for me in the photo section.

I haven't quit … I've just resolved that while ignorance can be remedied, you can't fix stupid! 

Interestingly, some of you have advised me on this fact … AND NOW I AM FINALLY TAKING THEIR GOOD ADVICE.

Make an intelligent argument … I'll show up.

 

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Neetu2
link 12/11/16 10:37:57PM @neetu2:

Wise decision, Mac. It is the only thing anyone with rationality and decency can do. It is very unfortunate that freedom to express oneself has led to such hateful and aggressive platforms. Almost everywhere. I do not engage with anyone on the current political scenario. It is pointless and unlikely to change. 

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JohnRussell
link 11/22/16 12:17:41PM @johnrussell:

Donald Trump has recently tweeted his complaints about a Broadway cast, the New York Times, Saturday Night Live , and praise for a right wing British politician,  and yet he cannot find 30 seconds to tweet to condemn a meeting of alt right white nationalists that cheered his election with nazi style salutes just a few blocks from the White House. 

Although Newstalkers is in present danger of having only seriously one sided topics because of the "liberals" who have stopped seeding and commenting, I can't honestly say that I blame you for wanting to wash your hands of this front page Mac. 

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Spikegary
link 11/23/16 11:48:12AM @spikegary:

Though Mr. Trump did find time to call the father of the assassinated police officer in an Antonio.  Maybe he felt that these 'Nationalist' (assholes) didn't deserve ot be noticed at the presidential level, so he let his press person leave a message of 'The Trump Administration wants all people to be treated equally'. 

That's someone acting presidential.  I know it's been a while since you've seen it.

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1ofmany
link 11/23/16 11:57:21AM @1ofmany:

Personally, I would be disturbed if he were following what a small group of racists are doing. If I were president, they would be beneath my notice and I wouldn't give them any publicity by even mentioning their name.

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JohnRussell
link 11/22/16 02:20:06PM @johnrussell:

Donald Trump thinks he can get away with anything. And he may be right.


 


By Paul Waldman   Washington Post  November 22 at 1:17 PM




AP Photo/Carolyn Kaster

It’s becoming clearer with each passing day of this presidential transition that like so much of what he said during the campaign, Donald Trump’s promise to separate himself from his business during his presidency was simply a lie. The convenient fiction that Trump offered up is that his children would run the corporation on his behalf as a “blind trust,” which is like referring to a plate of steamed kale as a “hamburger.”

Now, as Trump works to monetize the presidency for his own financial gain like some post-Soviet kleptocrat, we have to look back to the campaign to understand why he’s doing this.

There’s a simple explanation: Donald Trump thinks he can get away with anything

Yes, his limitless greed plays a part, as does his contempt for the rules and norms of the American system of government. But if the election had not gone the way it did, Trump would not feel so free to cash in, and in such a public and obvious way.

 

And it is obvious. In a matter of days, he’s invited his daughter Ivanka, who will be leading the Trump Organization, to sit in on a meeting with the Prime Minister of Japan. He held a meeting with Indian businessmen developing a Trump-branded apartment complex. He had his Washington hotel encourage foreign diplomats to stay there while they’re in the nation’s capital. He pressed British party leader Nigel Farage to fight against a proposed wind farm Trump believes mars the view from a golf course he owns in Scotland.

In response to criticism of these actions, Trump tweeted


Prior to the election it was well known that I have interests in properties all over the world. Only the crooked media makes this a big deal!


This made it clear that he sees no problem with having ongoing business interests in foreign countries as president, and if it becomes an issue he will simply blame the media.

We have to see this as the culmination of what Trump went through and learned during the campaign, and I’d like to point to one particular thing he said almost a year ago. In January, Trump : “I could stand in the middle of Fifth Avenue and shoot somebody, and I wouldn’t lose any voters, okay?”

This turned out to be an accurate assessment of the loyalty he inspired in his supporters. His white nationalist message was so powerful for them that no matter what he did or said, up to and including bragging about sexually assaulting women, they would stick with him and wave away his sins. It also revealed how Trump himself was coming to see his campaign, even at that early stage.

At that point, the Iowa caucuses were still a week away. Not a single primary vote had been counted. And Trump stood up in front of an audience and TV cameras and said, in effect, I can get away with anything. And he was right.

So let’s imagine a conversation today between Trump and one of his aides, who says, “Sir, you’re taking a lot of heat for the business stuff. We have to draw a bright line to assure people that you won’t be using the presidency to enrich yourself. This needs to be addressed.” How would Trump respond? I’m guessing he’d say something like this:


“I hear you. But you know what? I got the same advice advice — we need to address this, you’ve gone too far, blah blah blah — when I called Mexicans rapists and criminals. And when I said John McCain wasn’t a hero. And when I went after Megyn Kelly. And when I mocked a disabled reporter. And when I refused to release my tax returns like every other presidential candidate. And when I said we should ban Muslims. And when I got in a fight with a Gold Star family. And when I made fun of Ted Cruz’s wife and said his father may have killed JFK. And when I talked about the size of my penis in a debate. And when I encouraged my fans to knock the hell out of protesters. And when I went after Judge Curiel’s Mexican heritage. And when I invited Russia to hack Hillary Clinton’s emails. And when I said Barack Obama founded ISIS. And when I said a former Miss Universe was fat. And when I said that Clinton started the birther controversy but I finished it. And when everyone found out I didn’t pay federal taxes. And when everyone found out my foundation (which has now admitted to the IRS that it violated the law on ‘self-dealing’) is basically a scam. And when everyone heard me brag about groping women, and then I threatened to sue the women who said I groped them. And when I said I wouldn’t accept the results of the election unless I won.

“And guess what: I got away with all of it. I got the Republican nomination, and then I won the presidency despite the fact that my opponent got a couple of million more votes. I won. And now you’re telling me that I’m going to be in big trouble if I take the opportunities I’m presented with to make my beautiful, successful company even more beautiful and successful? Don’t make me laugh. Who’s going to stop me?”


Let’s not forget that even if tomorrow Trump decided to really not be involved in his businesses, there would still be copious opportunities for foreign interests and foreign governments to line his pockets, since they’ll just be able to do it by working with his children. And if you’re hoping that the web of his connections and arrangements at home and abroad will become clear once his IRS audit ends and he finally releases his tax returns as he promised, don’t get your hopes up. He’ll find another excuse for keeping them secret. We’re never going to see them.

Trump surely believes that he’ll get away with that, too. Everything that has happened since he first rode down that escalator last June has served to convince him that he can do whatever he wants, and when everyone around him is telling him he can’t, that’s just proof that he’s right and they’re wrong.

The question Trump asks at the end of my imagined conversation is one without a clear answer at this point. Republicans in Congress sure aren’t going to be investigating his conflicts of interest. Democrats have no institutional power to do so. The performance of the most of the news media (with some important exceptions) when it comes to holding Trump accountable has been less than encouraging.

So who’s going to stop him?

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JohnRussell
link 11/22/16 04:29:20PM @johnrussell:

Trump Inadvertently Admits Conflict Of Interest

Donald Trump just wrapped up a meeting with editors and reporters of the New York Times. Reporter Maggie Haberman relays that this happened:








"I might have brought it up," Trump says of Farage meeting and wind farms.









 


In saying this, Trump may have flatly and openly admitted to a conflict of interest, according to Noah Bookbinder, the executive director of Citizens for Responsibility and Ethics in Washington.

Trump’s admission that he “might have brought up” wind farms in his meeting with Nigel Farage is a reference to today’s New York Times story reporting this:


When President-elect Donald J. Trump met with the British politician Nigel Farage in recent days, he encouraged Mr. Farage and his entourage to oppose the kind of offshore wind farms that Mr. Trump believes will mar the pristine view from one of his two Scottish golf courses, according to one person present.

The meeting, held shortly after the presidential election, raises new questions about Mr. Trump’s willingness to use the power of the presidency to advance his business interests. Mr. Trump has long opposed a wind farm planned near his course in Aberdeenshire, and he previously fought unsuccessfully all the way to Britain’s highest court to block it….

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/plum-line/wp/2016/11/22/trump-may-have-just-flatly-and-openly-admitted-to-a-conflict-of-interest/?utm_medium=twitter&utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_term=.12941f351b9f

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Dowser
link 11/22/16 04:38:46PM @dowser:

A Mac, I don't blame you.  I'm feeling the same way...

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Redding Shasta Jefferson USA
link 11/22/16 06:37:59PM @redding-shasta-jefferson-usa:

It takes two sides to argue and also to have a civil dialogue.  In the election, one side won and the other lost.  Obviously the winners will be happy and the losers not so much.  The last two presidential elections went the other way. Conservatives didn't threaten to leave or to control the content of the winners seeds and posts.  Why do progressives try to do that now?  The whole thing about progressives trying to control the content and expression of their political opposition here or else they are going to leave is getting so old.  

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JohnRussell
link 11/22/16 06:46:32PM @johnrussell:

Since the election you have posted DOZENS of seeds which attack Clinton, the "elites", Democrats, liberals, snowflakes, etc.  No one in their right mind would have a "civil" dialogue with you, given what you seed. 

But I wouldn't have a civil dialogue with you for another reason - Donald Trump is not qualified to be president of the United States

here is one small example from today

 

 


Campaign: constantly repeated claim that torture works. Today: says Gen. Mattis talked him out of it with one simple anecdote.








  • RETWEETS92

 

Now, because he talked to a general that he likes, he is sure that waterboarding will not be useful.

Who was he talking to about it for the past year and a half? The doorman at his apartment building? 

Trump vowed all during the campaign that he would bring back waterboarding, now this disappears in a whim. 

He is incompetent, and often at the mercy of the last person that talks to him, OR more likely, he a pathological lying con man who has no sincerity toward the job or the American people.

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Redding Shasta Jefferson USA
link 11/22/16 11:00:09PM @redding-shasta-jefferson-usa:

John, while I voted a straight GOP ticket down ballot, I didn't vote for Trump or Clinton.  I wrote in Evan Mc Mullin.  

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sixpick
link 11/23/16 01:18:41AM @sixpick:

John I don't know of any other Republican candidate who has done what Trump has done.  He played right out of the Democrat playbook for the first time ever for a Republican candidate for President and beat them at it.

Now if he continues using it for his Presidency, he won't do a damn thing he said he was going to do.

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96WS6
link 11/22/16 07:23:05PM @96ws6:

I am amazed at how many people want to throw out the electoral system and with it the constitution because of one election.   How short sighted can you get?   That is worse than cheering BO for using newfound powers that Trump now has.  (and I warned about it then)   I can't wait to see how the cheerleaders react when Trump uses them!/s   The Democrats have only themselves to blame for that.   Now you are considering tearing apart the only thing left that stops a dictatorship!  Madness!!!

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Perrie Halpern R.A.
link 11/23/16 01:39:15AM @perrie-halpern:

I am amazed at how many people want to throw out the electoral system and with it the constitution because of one election.   How short sighted can you get?......   Now you are considering tearing apart the only thing left that stops a dictatorship!  Madness!!!

Now before I start, I support the electoral college, but oppose gerrymandering, which consistently, no one here has addressed, interestingly. That being said... the electoral college doesn't stop us from a dictatorship. Unless you are feeling that Republicans couldn't win a popular vote. 

May I present to you that every Republican prez we have had in the last 60 years, including George W. Bush, has won the popular vote, with the exception of this election. And I can tell you as a New Yorker, Trump isn't a true Republican, so questionable if he qualifies for this. So calm yourselves down. 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_presidential_elections_by_popular_vote_margin

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96WS6
link 11/23/16 09:03:06AM @96ws6:

Perrie,

In order to get rid of the electoral system you would have to re-write much of the constitution and the constitution is what stops a dictatorship in this country.   The fact that getting rid of the electoral system would require practically re-writing much of the constitution does not seem to bother liberals that think it needs to be re-written to allow their agenda anyhow.   Funny that these are the same short sighted folks for the most part that applauded BO obtaining new powers by abusing the system that Trump will now wield.   I told them all when they were applauding it this day would come, and when I posted and article on it they all avoided it like the plague....go figure.

The constitution has worked for over 100 years don't mess with it.

How can anyone look at this map and not say the electoral college did exactly what is was designed to.  It stopped a concentration on individuals from deciding the fate of the entire country.  It is clear that the COUNTRY overwhelmingly wanted Trump.   Like I said before, I am just waiting for Trump to do what they applauded of BO.   Any doubt at all in your mind about how they will react?

http://constructionlitmag.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/US_presidential_election_2004_results_by_county-e13485745988081.jpeg

 

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Perrie Halpern R.A.
link 11/23/16 11:33:19AM @perrie-halpern:

 

96,

You must have missed my opening sentence to my post. I clearly state that I am NOT for getting rid of the electoral system, but I am gerrymandering, and again, you didn't address that at all. And there is a reason that no one is addressing it. Gerrymandering produces electoral districts that favor one party or another. That is wrong! 

Look at these maps from the 2014 elections. I mean come on. This isn't fair and it has nada to do with the electoral college. It has nothing to do with the constitution. It has to do with the GOP wanting to keep more seats in districts that they would lose, if the map had anything to do with geographic location.  

imrs.png

This map is designed to keep control of the house and the senate and now there is a push to make gerrymandering acceptable for the Presidential election and it is unfair and wrong! 

How can anyone look at this map and not say the electoral college did exactly what is was designed to.  It stopped a concentration on individuals from deciding the fate of the entire country.  It is clear that the COUNTRY overwhelmingly wanted Trump.

The electoral college did stop concentrations of individuals from deciding the fate of the country, but the country didn't overwhelmingly want Trump, since the popular vote was for Hillary. DO NOT CONFUSE THOSE TWO CONCEPTS. That is why you are having dems say they want to get rid of the electoral college? Because if it was by popular vote, Hillary would have won. That being said, this is my point. That your earlier statement:

I am amazed at how many people want to throw out the electoral system and with it the constitution because of one election.   How short sighted can you get?......   Now you are considering tearing apart the only thing left that stops a dictatorship!  Madness!!!

is false. And I pointed out that with the electoral college, in the past, we have had republican presidents that were also voted in by popular vote. That cries of dictatorship are over exaggerations at best. What is truly at issue, is if you go by self identifying party voters, there are more dems than republicans and that freaks out the republicans. Thank goodness for us independents. At least we balance out the vote for both parties. 

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sixpick
link 11/24/16 09:17:43PM @sixpick:

Just think, the people of Michigan would not have had a voice in this election if the President were to be elected by Popular Votes.  That's not even a small state.  The Electoral College isn't perfect, but it is a lot closer to being fair to all the people scattered throughout this nation than anything else we've come up with.

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A. Macarthur
link 11/24/16 09:49:32PM @a-macarthur:

Six,

There are recounts taking place currently; what if those recounts result in flipping a state or two and give Clinton the 270 electoral votes in addition to the popular vote.

It's a hypothetical now, but should it become the reality, what would you say?

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sixpick
link 11/24/16 11:37:41PM @sixpick:

Six,

There are recounts taking place currently; what if those recounts result in flipping a state or two and give Clinton the 270 electoral votes in addition to the popular vote.

I would accept it as I know there would be nothing I could do to change it.  That doesn't mean I would like it, but I truly believe in doing my best to live in harmony with whatever life throws my way to best of my ability.

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Redding Shasta Jefferson USA
link 11/25/16 12:10:14AM @redding-shasta-jefferson-usa:

Congrats to President Clinton.  And a promise to be a part of the loyal opposition for the next four years.  

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A. Macarthur
link 11/25/16 09:33:12AM @a-macarthur:
(deleted)
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Redding Shasta Jefferson USA
link 11/25/16 10:43:53AM @redding-shasta-jefferson-usa:

You are a mean, tired, and bitter old man.  I was answering your question:  "There are recounts taking place currently; what if those recounts result in flipping a state or two and give Clinton the 270 electoral votes in addition to the popular vote.

It's a hypothetical now, but should it become the reality, what would you say?" and the above is your angry response?  Perhaps it is you that is what's the matter with this forum? eek

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A. Macarthur
link 11/25/16 11:00:35AM @a-macarthur:

You are a mean, tired, and bitter old man.  I was answering your question:  "There are recounts taking place currently; what if those recounts result in flipping a state or two and give Clinton the 270 electoral votes in addition to the popular vote.

It's a hypothetical now, but should it become the reality, what would you say?" and the above is your angry response?  Perhaps it is you that is what's the matter with this forum? eek

Who you callin' "old"?

However, I see your point … you did in fact answer my question as it was asked AND THEREFORE, I OWE YOU AN APOLOGY.

I apologize; I was wrong to comment as I did and I will have it deleted.

It is deleted but my apology to you will remain.

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Nowhere Man
link 11/24/16 09:42:57PM @nowhere-man:

Well, I for one see it a bit differently Perrie.

The electoral college worked EXACTLY the way the founders intended it to.

Advocating for the electoral college to be forced to vote along with the national popular vote destroys the intent to make elections fair. Yes there are more democrat voters concentrated in very small areas of the nation. and the Founders addressed the vary valid concerns of the other less populated states at the convention when this issue was specifically raised back then. Without this compromise there would not be a United States of America, not back in 1787 and not today soon after ditching or perverting the process.

WE have exactly the same situation today, large concentrations of voters controlling small sections of the nation and they make no bones about wanting to control the whole nation with those small blocks of area.

The founders created this compromise to get around the very serious issue.

The ten other less populated states did not want to be subject to edicts passed by the most powerful three with the force of law.

You advocating dominance of the minority.

This is either a nation claiming a lot of citizens, or a lot of people claiming to be a nation.

I can live in the former, I cannot live in nor tolerate the latter.

I am currently in a free land, do what you want we will no longer have a free land.

And I will openly revolt and openly advocate for armed revolt. Just like the founders did.

The basis for revolt is identical, from then to now if what you say you want is put into effect.

To me, this is an issue that reveals peoples political leanings and how little they know of the basis for the creation of this country and decisions and solutions they chose.

If we have to relearn the lessons of the revolution, let it start NOW.

I am dead set against any liberal operation to subvert the fair and open elections we have grown accustomed to in this nation.

Maybe it IS time to stand up and be counted.

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Nowhere Man
link 11/24/16 10:09:14PM @nowhere-man:

The GOP huh?

What do you expect from a 2014 waPO article on Gerrymandering. (clearly critical of the republicans maintaining their control of the house after taking control of the senate and lamenting that the republicans were going to have control of most redistricting) Why didn't they post which districts those were? They do make a claim that it is part of the basis for them holding the House...

There is another Image from the same article of the entire nation showing the areas with the most gerrymandered districts....

This one.

imrs.php.png

 

As you can clearly see darker red, more gerrymandering. quite a bit of it coming from heavy democrat areas also like the entire left coast, huge chunks of Eastern Pennsylvania, Southern Florida, Northern Illinois and other areas known as heavy democrat areas.

Yes both parties do it. it was named for the politician to both invented the practice and helped put it into effect nationally.

Elbridge Gerry,

Elected to the Second Continental Congress he signed the Declaration of Independence, and The Articles of Confederation.

A member of the Constitutional Convention, He refused to sign the constitution cause it didn't contain a bill of rights.

He is a founding father.

It may be a dirty practice, but it is a legal one.

And was created and abetted by the founders.

You may not like it, but it is the way the political parties make it work.

 

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Kavika
link 11/24/16 10:37:37PM @kavika:

''It may be a dirty practice, but it is a legal one.''

Actually in some cases it isn't legal and the federal judges decided in a recent case in WI. The gerrymandering by the republicans was found to be illegal.

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/11/21/us/wisconsin-redistricting-found-to-unfairly-favor-republicans.html

As a point of interest, the dark red to almost black on the map involves quite a few red states such as AZ, TX, LA, MS, AL, AR, KY, TN...Also much of the changes in California are in areas that are republican controlled.

I can't view the complete map since some of the east coast isn't visible.

BTW, I'm not in favor of gerrymandering by either side.

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Nowhere Man
link 11/24/16 10:57:20PM @nowhere-man:

right click and view image and you can see the whole image, I didn't scale it down enough. the only part cut off is the eastern tip of Maine, which is grey...

And yes Gerrymandering is evil, that I agree with whole heartedly. in some cases a balanced district creation process would create more democrat votes and in others it would create more republican ones.

Personally I would say a law requiring political demographics be taken into account along with census population when redistricting so all districts are half and half politically. That would be politically fair.

Make the politicians really work for your vote and stop disenfranchising each other in those specific districts.

Let everyone's vote count.

Add to the mix, each district must vote for the candidate that won the district, and we have eliminated all the political favoritism issues.

And I doubt that a democrat would win a presidential election ever again.

 

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sixpick
link 11/24/16 11:53:13PM @sixpick:

But take a look at these maps beside either other or one above the other.

http://constructionlitmag.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/US_presidential_election_2004_results_by_county-e13485745988081.jpeg

imrs.php.png

Look where the worst Gerrymandering is and look at where each candidate received the most votes, not that it matters in a Presidential election.

 

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sixpick
link 11/25/16 12:05:17AM @sixpick:

Also much of the changes in California are in areas that are republican controlled.

That may be true, but according to the two maps it looks like the darkest areas in California voted Democrat.

And the bottom of Texas looks like they voted Democrat and have a tremendous amount of Gerrymandering going on as well as Washington state.

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96WS6
link 11/25/16 09:58:11AM @96ws6:

Perrie,

 

Gerrymandering is something both parties do.   I don't agree with gerrymandering but overall the electoral college is the best way to go and it did it's job this election.  Imagine with the number of proven ballots cast by deceased and illegals caught this election how many problems a popular vote election would have caused.

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JohnRussell
link 11/23/16 11:52:03AM @johnrussell:

96,

We have people far more worried about debating the electoral college than the fact that we have a complete know nothing going into the white house. Look at the transcript of the New York Times interview with Trump and the articles and columns that people who were in the room have written about it this morning. The consensus is that trump is an empty suit with unformed or non existent ideas about important issues. The thing he is most sure about is that he has a right to run his business empire from the oval office if he wants to. 

To heck with all this talk of the electoral college as if it were the most important thing going on. Keeping the heat on the looming embarrassment and disaster known as the Trump administration is what is needed now. 

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96WS6
link 11/23/16 06:34:41PM @96ws6:

So far the only embarrassment is the liberals reaction to the election. 

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JohnRussell
link 11/23/16 06:57:11PM @johnrussell:

Draining The Swamp ?

 

Trump's new Sec of Education, Betsy deVos, admits that her billionaire family buys influence


Betsy DeVos, a huge advocate for school privatization, admitting her family buys influence with campaign donations






 

https://twitter.com/lhfang/status/801495776467689472



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Redding Shasta Jefferson USA
link 11/24/16 01:25:14PM @redding-shasta-jefferson-usa:

The response to the results of the election, one part rage one part burying their head in the sand is truly a sad spectacle to behold.  laughing dudePartyla de da

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A. Macarthur
link 11/24/16 01:49:47PM @a-macarthur:

 


The response to the results of the election, one part rage one part burying their head in the sand is truly a sad spectacle to behold.  laughing dudePartyla de da

And still, you evade the issues and you post cartoons.

The election outcome is a manifestation of many serious wrongs perpetrated by a cancerous system with disease-carriers on both sides of the aisle.

Yours is the head in the sand, XX.

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Buzz of the Orient
link 11/22/16 08:55:01PM @buzz-of-the-orient:

Just keep heaping the garbage onto your President-elect - the whole world is watching what American democracy is all about.

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JohnRussell
link 11/22/16 08:58:40PM @johnrussell:

Buzz, Donald Trump is not qualified to be president of the United States, a fact that doesnt seem to have made it's way over to China. He will be opposed every single day he is in office. 

Winning the election did not make him qualified. This appears to be where you may be getting stuck. 

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Buzz of the Orient
link 11/22/16 09:12:25PM @buzz-of-the-orient:

I have NEVER said he WAS qualified, so you can stop pasting that on me. Although the only thing I criticized was his being more unfairly treated and reported than Hillary, you have constantly criticized me for supporting him. In my opinion, the constant criticism is probably one of the reasons he won - which proves that a lot of voters were being more fair than was expected. I never seriously supported any candidate (although I preferred Johnson until he proved to the world what an idiot he was) - I would have supported Clint Eastwood had he run and if I had a vote, but then I've always been fond of classic movies and classic actors.

Whenever I would drive somewhere with my young kids in the back seat, I would hear repeatedly "Are we there yet, daddy?"  I'm beginning to get the same feeling about the ruminating after this election. Don't ignore the line from Leonard Cohen's poem/song Anthem: "There's a crack, a crack in everything. That's how the light gets in."  In other words, John, there could be light at the end of the tunnel so it's not wise to blow up the tunnel before you get there.

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JohnRussell
link 11/22/16 09:23:41PM @johnrussell:

"Fair" has nothing to do with it. No one should have been fair to Donald Trump in his guise as a presidential candidate. The fact that the media insisted on being "fair" to the worst candidate in American history is one of the main reasons we are in the fix we are now in. 

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1ofmany
link 11/22/16 11:23:35PM @1ofmany:

"Fair" has nothing to do with it. No one should have been fair to Donald Trump in his guise as a presidential candidate. The fact that the media insisted on being "fair" to the worst candidate in American history is one of the main reasons we are in the fix we are now in.

I interpret Buzz's use of the word "fair" to mean impartial. The mainstream media was clearly putting its thumb on the scale in favor of Hillary. Wikileaks exposed collusion between Hillary's campaign and the media to get rid of Bernie and the media's bias against Trump was obvious. For instance, I don't recall seeing a single segment on CNN covering Hillary's shady past dating back to watergate but Trump's alleged 30 years of p***y grabbing was covered day and night for weeks. Trump used the media's bias to whip up public sentiment against them. The more they hit him, the stronger he became . . . like a science fiction monster. 

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Buzz of the Orient
link 11/22/16 11:36:30PM @buzz-of-the-orient:

That's exactly what I meant, 1ofmany. I should have used a thesaurus to find a more accurate word than "fair".  During my lifetime the media has become more and more biased to the extent that it is impossible to get an accurate picture of anything any more.

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JohnRussell
link 11/22/16 11:38:59PM @johnrussell:

You guys are hopeless. Fricking hopeless, and the forum is losing contributors for it. 

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JohnRussell
link 11/22/16 11:46:34PM @johnrussell:

Buzz and 1 of many , why should anyone be fair to this?

 

 

"So let’s imagine a conversation today between Trump and one of his aides, who says, “Sir, you’re taking a lot of heat for the business stuff. We have to draw a bright line to assure people that you won’t be using the presidency to enrich yourself. This needs to be addressed.” How would Trump respond? I’m guessing he’d say something like this:



“I hear you. But you know what? I got the same advice advice — we need to address this, you’ve gone too far, blah blah blah — when I called Mexicans rapists and criminals. And when I said John McCain wasn’t a hero. And when I went after Megyn Kelly. And when I mocked a disabled reporter. And when I refused to release my tax returns like every other presidential candidate. And when I said we should ban Muslims. And when I got in a fight with a Gold Star family. And when I made fun of Ted Cruz’s wife and said his father may have killed JFK. And when I talked about the size of my penis in a debate. And when I encouraged my fans to knock the hell out of protesters. And when I went after Judge Curiel’s Mexican heritage. And when I invited Russia to hack Hillary Clinton’s emails. And when I said Barack Obama founded ISIS. And when I said a former Miss Universe was fat. And when I said that Clinton started the birther controversy but I finished it. And when everyone found out I didn’t pay federal taxes. And when everyone found out my foundation (which has now admitted to the IRS that it violated the law on ‘self-dealing’) is basically a scam. And when everyone heard me brag about groping women, and then I threatened to sue the women who said I groped them. And when I said I wouldn’t accept the results of the election unless I won.

“And guess what: I got away with all of it. I got the Republican nomination, and then I won the presidency despite the fact that my opponent got a couple of million more votes. I won. And now you’re telling me that I’m going to be in big trouble if I take the opportunities I’m presented with to make my beautiful, successful company even more beautiful and successful? Don’t make me laugh. Who’s going to stop me?”"

 

By Paul Waldman   Washington Post  November 22 at 1:17 PM

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Buzz of the Orient
link 11/22/16 11:51:35PM @buzz-of-the-orient:

“I’m guessing he’d say something like this:”

  I'm not the least bit interested in reading some biased person's conjecture.

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JohnRussell
link 11/22/16 11:53:50PM @johnrussell:

Those are all facts related to Donald Trump. You are clueless about all this Buzz and your assessment is about as persuasive as if we randomly picked someone out of a crowd. 

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1ofmany
link 11/23/16 12:09:51AM @1ofmany:

Those are all facts related to Donald Trump. You are clueless about all this Buzz and your assessment is about as persuasive as if we randomly picked someone out of a crowd. 

. . . a crowd at oxford. 

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1ofmany
link 11/23/16 12:02:37AM @1ofmany:

Buzz and 1 of many , why should anyone be fair to this?

All we said is that the media should be impartial. Why? So I can trust what they say. 

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1ofmany
link 11/22/16 11:57:29PM @1ofmany:

You guys are hopeless. Fricking hopeless, and the forum is losing contributors for it. 

Geez you were walking around dressed as the grim reaper doing a post mortem on the country just because Hillary lost the election and you think that's just fine. Buzz said that the media covered Trump unfairly and I agreed so we damaged the site. Rest you need. 

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JohnRussell
link 11/22/16 11:59:40PM @johnrussell:

You are commenting in an article where the author said he is withdrawing because of the reaction to this election on NT. Or are you lost? 

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sixpick
link 11/23/16 01:39:17AM @sixpick:

You are commenting in an article where the author said he is withdrawing because of the reaction to this election on NT. Or are you lost?

He didn't say he was withdrawing.  Man.... get a hold.  AMac said he was staying away from the Front Page and for how long he didn't know.  I don't blame him if it bothers him to read and comment on articles.  AMac can get really involved in something, like take a look at all the edited photos he's put up.  Those things don't just happen, you have to really put yourself into them and that is what AMac does when he gets involved in the arguments on the Front Page. 

And he doesn't like Trump, probably absolutely hates him and it really really bothers him, so he's getting the sh*t out of Dodge at least for awhile and even he doesn't know how long, but he didn't say he was withdrawing from The Newstalkers.

You make me nervous.  I feel your pain so to speak.  I feel your anxiety and stress. 

Maybe you and I can put one political article up and then something else other than political.  You know too much of a bad things isn't good for you.  If you don't want to do it, maybe I will.  Get one or two comments, but at least I won't be as inclined to get too involved in the politics at a time like this.

Anyway I have to hit the sack.

I really like this.

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JohnRussell
link 11/23/16 12:15:30PM @johnrussell:

Go dream up some more conspiracies to contaminate this site with. 

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96WS6
link 11/23/16 11:07:54AM @96ws6:

"You are commenting in an article where the author said he is withdrawing because of the reaction to this election on NT. Or are you lost? "

 

If he was a Republican he would have wrote the article 8 years ago.  It looks to me like you people need to grow up.  Do you remember any "safe spaces' for people that were upset about BO getting elected?   I am great with it though.  Keep this whiny baby shit up and soon no one will want to call themselves a Democrat.  How embarrassing that must be to admit with what is going on today.   No wonder where millennial's got their ideology and mindset from any more is there?

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Spikegary
link 11/23/16 12:10:31PM @spikegary:

I believe A Mac said he was giving the front page a rest, not the entire site.  In fact, I believe he said he'll be over in the Arts & Photography section.  This Chicken Little routine is getting a little old for everyone, John.

Next time, filed a palatable candidate.  It's just as much your fault as anyone else's the Mr. Trump won the election.

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sixpick
link 11/23/16 12:38:29AM @sixpick:

John.... I can count the fingers on my two hands the people who post to the front page and they are the same people who have been posting long before the campaign even started.  Occasionally one or two other than the regulars will comment here and there, but basically the forum has the same main people posting every day as it has for ages.

I keep hearing this accusation about Republicans whining after you put 6 or 7 articles whining about Trump.  That's alright, I don't care, but you need to take a look at yourself and see if maybe you aren't doing a little whining yourself.

The only time the people on the left get upset is when they are not getting their way.  It never fails.  The people on the left, and you know who they are, can put all kinds of crap on the Front Page and none of you ever say a word about it, but let someone on the right put some crap up and the left comes out of the woodwork complaining about how bad the Front Page is. 

I have something for ya!

 

 

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JohnRussell
link 11/23/16 12:43:27AM @johnrussell:

Trump will be the president, that is why he is news (for the worse unfortunately).

If Trump had lost the election, you wouldnt see me attacking him any more on the front page. I wish I never had to see that idiots face or hear his voice again, but no such luck. 

You right wingers didnt know how to handle your narrow victory and keep piling on Clinton and some mythical "elites" as if anyone here gives a fuck about that. I don't think we have any elites here. 

Defend the ahole we have in the presidency -(elect) now, if you can. That is what the game is now. 

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sixpick
link 11/23/16 01:47:10AM @sixpick:

You right wingers

I'm not a right winger.  Remember that test Jefferson put up here a few months ago?  I took it 3 times trying to get to be a right winger and I still was just a tad to the left.

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Jonathan P
link 11/23/16 10:46:16AM @jonathan-p:

John, like most of the Dems in America, believes that anyone to the right of him is a right-winger. Just another way of underestimating and ignoring those people that should not be underestimated and ignored.

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Perrie Halpern R.A.
link 11/23/16 12:08:09PM @perrie-halpern:

Jonathan, the same can be said about the right. To them, I am a liberal. I am not a liberal. I have some liberal stances, but I also have some conservative ones to. But anything to the left of right is a liberal. 

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Gunny
link 11/23/16 12:13:01PM @gunny:

I think even john and Randy has a hard time catching up to your leftist stance.  You need to slow down so they can catch their breath.laughing dudewinking

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Randy
link 11/23/16 12:16:04PM @randy:

Speaking as myself (Randy) I consider Perrie to be slightly to the right of center. A very, very, very moderate Republican. To say she is on the Left is to admit you have not read or understood any of her posts, IMHO.

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Gunny
link 11/23/16 12:27:41PM @gunny:

Randy you are a Socialist I understand that and you think of Perrie as a Moderate. However: I have read her comments for many many years and have seen the shift in her stances on many subjects. so I stand by my comments above.

And besides it was suppose to be a funny.

 

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Perrie Halpern R.A.
link 11/23/16 12:49:45PM @perrie-halpern:

Gene,

Unlike you, I actually consider multiple points and in fact, the only stance that has change is about guns, and I would say, it moved to the right. You have no idea of what my POV's are. You just think you do. 

Randy is right. I am a moderate independent. That means I hold both right and left beliefs based on an issue by issue basis. 

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Gunny
link 11/23/16 12:59:28PM @gunny:

Unlike what you think of me I think I am more moderate than you. But you do not take the time to really get to know anyone that is leaning right.  But enough of that it's all over and Trump won, and if he doesn't come thru like he promised he will be out also.

Oh and I like  some of the liberal ideas. Just not enough to lean left.  And you forget I have read you for many years and have seen the move you made to the left.  Moderate you may be but lean right never.

 

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Perrie Halpern R.A.
link 11/23/16 12:46:46PM @perrie-halpern:

Gene,

That is freaking obnoxious and thanks for proving my point. 

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Gunny
link 11/23/16 12:59:55PM @gunny:

You had and have no point.

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Perrie Halpern R.A.
link 11/23/16 01:11:07PM @perrie-halpern:

Gene another typical obnoxious comment. No facts.. just a one liner. So....

Let's put this to bed. Tell me where I stand on these issues:

1.The Iran deal

2. Guns 

3. PC

4. Affirmative action

5. Obama's "Red Line"

6. The Electoral College

Let's start there. Let's see how left I am?

Oh btw.. I have read your's for many years and you are a total conservative, which means anything that is left of you is a liberal. 

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Gunny
link 11/23/16 01:12:45PM @gunny:

All conservative issues. of course.

 

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Perrie Halpern R.A.
link 11/23/16 01:16:49PM @perrie-halpern:

Exactly Gene. What is my position on those conservative issues? You say you know me, so tell me what are my postions?

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Gunny
link 11/23/16 01:27:04PM @gunny:

I didn't say I knew you I said you lean left, 

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Gunny
link 11/23/16 01:32:02PM @gunny:

You tell me how I am then I will address your left leanings.

 

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Perrie Halpern R.A.
link 11/23/16 01:34:44PM @perrie-halpern:

Gene,

I gave you right issues... if you can't tell me how I stand on them, how can you tell me that I lean left?

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Gunny
link 11/23/16 01:40:25PM @gunny:

Because you cannot take a funny, and it amuses me to see you get all in a huff when some one calls you on certain subjects that just shows me you lean left and your way of thinking goes right along with the left on this site.

And if you scan on down you will see that I agreed with BF on your issues.

 

 

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JohnRussell
link 11/23/16 01:15:37PM @johnrussell:

The right is p.c. too. They don't want anyone to talk about the fricking idiot they elected. 

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Perrie Halpern R.A.
link 11/23/16 01:18:06PM @perrie-halpern:

John,

That isn't being PC. They make excuses for his behavior. Everyone does that for their candidate. 

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JohnRussell
link 11/23/16 01:22:17PM @johnrussell:

I was being a little sarcastic Perrie. But just a little. 

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Gunny
link 11/23/16 04:36:07PM @gunny:

My thoughts

1. Iran Deal - no

2. Guns - Yes

3. PC - Hell no

4. Affirmative action no and hell no

5. Obama's red line - Putin beat his ass on that one

6. Electoral College - Hell yes.

 

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sixpick
link 11/24/16 09:39:06PM @sixpick:

Oh this should be fun!!!

Let's put this to bed. Tell me where I stand on these issues:

1.The Iran deal 

It was a little underhanded as far as you are concerned.  You think Congress should have been able to have some input into the decision and it kind of pissed you off when you found out the extra money had been given to them, when they didn't divulge it until it was exposed.  You wish transparency was really a word.

2. Guns

You think law abiding citizens should be able to have all the guns they want.  You think they should have them secured so they aren't stolen or accessible to children.  You don't want crazies to be able to get guns, so you want some kind of background check made so that doesn't happen.

3. PC

You're getting a little tired of all the PC as well.  You don't want people to run around saying anything that reaches their vocal chords, but you don't want to have to carry a PC book around either.

4. Affirmative action

You think people who have a need should be looked after and taken care of as long as they are taking that privilege seriously and taking advantage of it.

5. Obama's "Red Line"

Don't draw any more "Red Lines".  It makes a person look like a fool when they tell someone they're going to kick their arse if they step over the line you just drew and then you have to draw another one a little further back. I dare you to step across this line!!!  And this line!!!

6. The Electoral College

You don't particularly like it, but after thinking about it a little, you realize it's in the Constitution and until something better comes along it's all we have and Popular Vote isn't it.

Let's start there. Let's see how left I am?

You're a white girl who lives in the NYC area and you like southern men because of their testosterone levels.  Oh.... I'm sorry,,,,,, got carried away.

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Perrie Halpern R.A.
link 11/25/16 02:38:22PM @perrie-halpern:

You're a white girl who lives in the NYC area and you like southern men because of their testosterone levels.  Oh.... I'm sorry,,,,,, got carried away.

Who you be calling a white girl...  and your testosterone levels are meaningless unless you want to do some genetic mixing.

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Nowhere Man
link 11/25/16 03:09:41PM @nowhere-man:

Well, he did say,

"Lets put this to bed" thinking

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A. Macarthur
link 11/25/16 03:11:10PM @a-macarthur:

Who you be calling a white girl...  and your testosterone levels are meaningless unless you want to do some genetic mixing.

Cum again?

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Redding Shasta Jefferson USA
link 11/23/16 01:47:38AM @redding-shasta-jefferson-usa:

Right.  chuckle  Because you can't have content control and can't dictate what your political opposition believes and expresses people are leaving the site.  stunned  Conservatives didn't leave when liberals won the last two presidential elections no matter what the lefties here or on NV said or did.  Threatening that the snowflakes will leave if we can't be compelled to celebrate in silence and repress the expression of our equally legitimate view point is no way to have a discussion of issues. 

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Dowser
link 11/23/16 04:24:35PM @dowser:

XX several of our more conservative members left, for a while, when they felt the FP to be too liberal.  It is an individual choice.  Not trying to be mean to you, but it's true.

Hope you have a great day!

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Redding Shasta Jefferson USA
link 11/23/16 11:23:14PM @redding-shasta-jefferson-usa:

Well I didn't.  I don't care how many liberals, moderates, conservatives seed stuff to the front page.  I don't care how many or how partisan their articles are.  I think that real clear politics daily articles provide a good variety of topics and viewpoints.  There is plenty to comment on in their articles.  I often seed articles from there.  Some return you to the original source to read and copy and some run under the real clear politics heading.  I don't care how badly our resident liberals bash republicans, conservatives, Christians, or whatever I happen to support.  I may just skip on by it or I might read and respond.  My choice.  I will not complain that they seeded the article or complain that it's on the front page.  Live and let live.  I know I won't change the mind of a liberal member seeding an article I disagree with, but I might have a chance with neutral nonmember readers/observers.  

 

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A. Macarthur
link 11/25/16 03:17:35PM @a-macarthur:

Conservatives didn't leave when liberals won the last two presidential elections no matter what the lefties here or on NV said or did.  Threatening that the snowflakes will leave if we can't be compelled to celebrate in silence and repress the expression of our equally legitimate view point is no way to have a discussion of issues. 

No; instead the stuck around, questioned Obama's citizenship, repudiated his every word and initiative, posted every smear …over and over and over …

And whose the snowflake now? Or are only conservatives allowed to complain?

No, you didn't leave, you made things unpleasant enough so that others left or limited their exposure to the ugliness and misinformation.

Reality check.

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96WS6
link 11/23/16 11:00:17AM @96ws6:

John,

 

You are the one that is fricking hopeless.  You think rules should apply to others and not you and vise versa as long as you get your endgame.  I can't wait to hear you piss an whine when Trump uses the newfound powers that your savior  has given him.  I told you then you were being short sighted and ignorant and now you will have to live with the consequences of your own shortsightedness and ignorance.   This is the time to cut your losses instead of doubling down.

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JohnRussell
link 11/23/16 02:24:59PM @johnrussell:

 

 

Let's have some fun !



Happy Holidays! Trump's Campaign Is Selling Gilded $149 Ornaments





























 


For the low, low price of $149, you too can have a collectible Donald Trump "Make America Great Again" tiny red hat ornament.



The Trump campaign is selling the exorbitantly priced ornaments on their website now and bills them as a "collectible" item.

http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/donald-trump-is-selling-149-dollar-ornaments

 

 




And the millions of poor racist hillbillies who voted for him will scrimp and save to buy 4 of these for their tree while their president-elect abandons every issue that got them to vote for him in the first place.



http://forums.talkingpointsmemo.com/t/discussion-happy-holidays-trumps-campaign-is-selling-gilded-149-ornaments/47657/10




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Redding Shasta Jefferson USA
link 11/23/16 10:52:29PM @redding-shasta-jefferson-usa:

Really John? The forum is losing contributors because we have a diversity of viewpoints and opinions?  We're losing participants because there are weak minded people out there who won't join because they might have to deal with viewpoints they don't like or agree with?  That's just silly.  Why would you want this place to be an echo chamber where only left of center viewpoints are seen and read and where only those who agree with you about Trump qualifications should post anything?  Those who can't deal with that there are all sort of view points and that they are all welcome and that some might have voted for Hillary, some for Trump, and some for someone else, and that some who didn't vote for Trump still saw Hillary as the greater of the two evils might as we not even join might find a number of solid red or solid blue sites more to their liking.  What's really sad is long term members who avoid discussion when their side loses an election and can't force the other side into silence.  

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Gunny
link 11/24/16 11:29:38PM @gunny:

John started those that went exodus on NT and he continues today. Many that left were my friends and they told me the reason why.  And a couple were very good friends with Perrie at the time.  

I am so sick and tired of this crying ion their beer from people like john and AMac over something they have no control over.  They voted they did their civic duty they lost. end of story.  And that is what they told us when Obama was elected (twice).  So let it go and lets get back on track and get this country working together as one.  It won't be perfect but nothing in life is perfect. 

So stop with the poor little me and stop with the WE BEAT YOUR ASS and lets get going on our country.

 

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96WS6
link 11/23/16 10:44:19AM @96ws6:

Nice to see you admit advocating media bias against your opponents.   Can't wait until it happens to your next savior.

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Krishna
link 11/22/16 11:56:44PM @krishna:

 I would have supported Clint Eastwood had he run.

Humphey Bogart would be my first choice! Laugh

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Buzz of the Orient
link 11/23/16 12:20:46AM @buzz-of-the-orient:

You want a President who's already dead, Krishna? If we want to elect dead politicians how about an honest one like Jimmy Stewart - if he's anything like the Mr. Smith who went to Washington, or Atticus Finch?

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Krishna
link 11/23/16 12:28:06AM @krishna:

an honest one like Jimmy Stewart?

Or-- Jon Stewart!

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sixpick
link 11/23/16 01:51:05AM @sixpick:

Jimmy Stewart

Now I could vote for him or Gregory Peck and he was a Democrat.

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Krishna
link 11/22/16 11:56:51PM @krishna:

 I would have supported Clint Eastwood had he run.

Humphey Bogart would be my first choice! Laugh

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dennis smith
link 11/22/16 11:33:55PM @dennis-smith:

He was qualified or he would not have been eligible to run. More excuses from losers

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JohnRussell
link 11/22/16 11:36:51PM @johnrussell:

Since you have to be 35 years old to be 'qualified' , and he is 70, he must be twice as qualified, right?  rofl. There has never in the history of the country been a worse presidential candidate than Donald trump. 

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Buzz of the Orient
link 11/23/16 12:26:43AM @buzz-of-the-orient:

How abuut George C. Wallace?

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Krishna
link 11/23/16 12:33:18AM @krishna:

How about George C. Wallace?

Been there, done that:

 

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dennis smith
link 11/25/16 11:47:07AM @dennis-smith:

JR - you still refuse to accept the results and continue with schoolyard comments

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96WS6
link 11/23/16 10:42:42AM @96ws6:

Still in denial.  Keep it up until the next election.  You obviously need the lesson at least one more time..

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96WS6
link 11/23/16 10:47:38AM @96ws6:

He will be opposed every single day he is in office.

Nice to see you displaying your hypocrisy again.  

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Randy
link 11/22/16 11:07:54PM @randy:

Just keep heaping the garbage onto your President-elect

He's not mine...

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Perrie Halpern R.A.
link 11/22/16 11:18:09PM @perrie-halpern:

Randy,

Even guys who hated Obama, recognized him as their president. You can hate Trump, but he is your president. Protest him, if you must, fight for what you believe in, but the office is his for the next 4 years, like it or not. 

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JohnRussell
link 11/22/16 11:22:26PM @johnrussell:

Perrie, Donald Trump is not qualified to be president of the United States and I expect that he will be opposed every day that he is in office. This was not a "normal" election and we don't have to pretend it was. 

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Perrie Halpern R.A.
link 11/22/16 11:46:37PM @perrie-halpern:

John,

It doesn't matter what you think of Trump.. or the elections. As far as the Constitution says, he was an eligible candidate, and that is all that matters. His qualifications is up for debate, and that is what this forum is for. 

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JohnRussell
link 11/22/16 11:48:55PM @johnrussell:

John, It doesn't matter what you think of Trump.. or the elections.

 

Well, excuuuuseeeeeee me ! lol. 

I guess you put me in my place. 

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Redding Shasta Jefferson USA
link 11/24/16 01:54:17PM @redding-shasta-jefferson-usa:

Well John, somebody's got to do it!  wavinglaughing dude

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Krishna
link 11/22/16 11:58:03PM @krishna:

 I expect that he will be opposed every day that he is in office.

You mean the way Obama was?

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Perrie Halpern R.A.
link 11/23/16 12:29:09AM @perrie-halpern:

There you go Krish.

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96WS6
link 11/23/16 10:48:57AM @96ws6:

This was not a "normal" election and we don't have to pretend it was. 

 

Unless of course Hillary won right John?

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Randy
link 11/23/16 12:49:57AM @randy:

Randy,

Even guys who hated Obama, recognized him as their president. You can hate Trump, but he is your president. Protest him, if you must, fight for what you believe in, but the office is his for the next 4 years, like it or not. 

Perrie,

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievance"

Emphasis mine. Under my right to the freedom of speech I have the right to reject him as my President and say so. If you or others like it or not. He is not my President. I have the right to reject a racist, fascist as the leader of this great nation. In fact I have a duty as a patriotic American to reject him.

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sixpick
link 11/23/16 12:53:19AM @sixpick:

Randy.... I don't think anyone is stopping you from doing that.  I don't blame you..... If you don't like him, hate him or whatever and you don't want to accept him as your President, then by all means be my guest.  I can understand those feelings.

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Randy
link 11/23/16 03:08:31AM @randy:

Thank you.

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Buzz of the Orient
link 11/23/16 03:57:29AM @buzz-of-the-orient:

Randy, I hope your new home in Mexico has internet service. We wouldn't want to lose you. You DID say you would move there if Trump won, didn't you. You said you were looking for a place there just in case.

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Dean Moriarty
link 11/23/16 06:24:46AM @dean-moriarty:

Yes he did Buzz I too remember that. 

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Randy
link 11/23/16 12:05:05PM @randy:

We saw some nice condos Buzz, but nothing we really liked or made financial sense that much in Puerto Vallarta, which is really where we want to move. Also I'm pushing more for a single family home rather then a condo. In January we're going on a 15 day cruise to Hawaii so I can check off seeing the USS Arizona from my bucket list and it makes a stop in Ensenada on the West side of Baja, South of California that has a large community of retired Americans. That might be a better option. We need to find something that makes financial sense and that we really like.

Besides, Trump didn't win. Hillary did by almost 2 million votes and counting. So, since he is not my President (and my wife feels the same way. He's not hers either.) we'll move or not if we find something we like and works for us money wise.

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Buzz of the Orient
link 11/24/16 10:02:59AM @buzz-of-the-orient:

Well if you get to Zihuatanejo, say hello to Andy and Red for me, okay?

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Randy
link 11/24/16 12:25:31PM @randy:

LOL! Ok, I will.

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Redding Shasta Jefferson USA
link 11/24/16 01:58:16PM @redding-shasta-jefferson-usa:

 

He won't have to move.  He's too busy trying to make California its own country.  

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Perrie Halpern R.A.
link 11/22/16 11:16:32PM @perrie-halpern:

Mac,

I have known you for almost 9 years now, and I have never known you to be a quitter. Reading this.. I am really disappointed. There is never an issue or a discussion that can't be had. It's when we stop talking, that things go to pot. Do you know how many movies have been made about things that have gone unsaid? I mean lots (I don't have an actual number, you realize). But quit? Mac... that ain't you. Not the Mac I know. 

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Buzz of the Orient
link 11/22/16 11:41:36PM @buzz-of-the-orient:

"This will be my only FP comment in a political forum until I can't say when."

It's significant, Perrie, that A.Mac used the word "until", which means he did not quit permanently. He is doing what a lot of us have already done and may do again.

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Dean Moriarty
link 11/23/16 01:31:55AM @dean-moriarty:

I've seen him make the claim he was quitting the FP at least four of five times. The last time was when NWM made his dramatic exit. 

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jwc2blue
link 11/23/16 08:43:59AM @jwc2blue:

But quit? Mac... that ain't you. Not the Mac I know. 

There's a world of difference between quitting and shifting focus. If Mac were to quit, he'd be gone.

"This will be my only FP comment in a political forum until I can't say when."

I've no doubt that his contributions elsewhere on the site will be of more value than much of what is on the political articles going here back at least a year.

We have members who knowingly seed utterly false stories. Others who fail to respond when their article is countered by a factual or logical counterpoint, still others who can only attack the source, the member or both. Still others refuse to address requests for any sort of evidence other than their opinion when confronted with an obvious falsehood.

We have at members that are openly misogynistic and bigoted. When a member thinks that he's insulting someone by claiming that they posses female attributes, and the female membership doesn't (or rarely) let them know that it's unacceptable, we have some clear dysfunction here.

There is precious little actual "discussion," and a clearly coordinated effort to avoid commenting on any article posted by any member not of a certain group.

The disappointment and disgust of people on this site looking for intelligent, adult discussion about the issues in the news, especially those of a political nature is perfectly understandable. 

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JohnRussell
link 11/23/16 09:09:38AM @johnrussell:

When you have anarchists on a forum, when you have self-centered "libertarians" on a forum, and when you have dedicated conspiracy adherents on a forum, and people willing to disseminate false information to further their causes, this is what you end up with. 

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sixpick
link 11/23/16 11:03:57AM @sixpick:

We have members who knowingly seed utterly false stories.

I thought you were smarter than that.  You mean you don't know it?

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Randy
link 11/23/16 12:44:16AM @randy:

This will be my only FP comment in a political forum until I can't say when.

I understand and don't blame you one bit.

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sixpick
link 11/23/16 01:03:11AM @sixpick:

 

Warning Newstalkers weekly psychiatric therapy in session.jpg

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sixpick
link 11/23/16 01:10:38AM @sixpick:

Or we can just do this....


God, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change,


Courage to change the things I can,


And wisdom to know the difference.


And gripe all you want to.  Write your Congressman.  Write an article.  Do what makes you feel better, that's the important thing to remember.

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Perrie Halpern R.A.
link 11/23/16 01:15:48AM @perrie-halpern:

Well, that is a tad condescending, Six. (referring to the meme)

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sixpick
link 11/23/16 01:59:26AM @sixpick:

I'm behind those doors with all of you!!!

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Nowhere Man
link 11/23/16 02:00:47AM @nowhere-man:

Well, if this is the way it's going to be around here, maybe I should bow out for another month or two.....

Doesn't look like much has changed.....

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Randy
link 11/23/16 03:09:53AM @randy:

Think I'll join you...

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Redding Shasta Jefferson USA
link 11/23/16 03:14:49AM @redding-shasta-jefferson-usa:

chicken

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Dowser
link 11/23/16 05:09:14PM @dowser:

XX, I have done my best to try to get along with you, but that little emoji is just mean...  Please don't do that again-- I'm asking you, as a friend.

Do you really want an echo chamber here on the site?  Or do you want to not have us around to kick when it pleases you?  You can't make the site untenable for about 1/2 it's members, just because you disagree with them politically.

You and I disagree on many things and yet, there are things we agree on-- even if it is that we both like dogs.  Lowering the level of snark is a big plus to all of us being able to 'live in the same neighborhood'.  I'm just asking, with respect, and, yes, love.

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Redding Shasta Jefferson USA
link 11/24/16 01:06:53AM @redding-shasta-jefferson-usa:

I've always opposed turning this site into an echo chamber for either the left or the right.  We're all adults and can deal with viewpoints opposite our own and opinion posts that oppose everything we stand for and do it in a civilized way.  No one here asked for the grim reaper to show up and carry on and then promote protests in our city streets yet we dealt with it and didn't personally attack that person or threaten to leave the site when he dished out all that.  Yet when we counter it with the opposite point of view, many here who generally agree with the reaper would rather leave than be exposed to views from the other side.  There is nothing that JWC or John could seed here or say in a post that would make me want to throw up my hands and run away.  

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1ofmany
link 11/24/16 01:11:38AM @1ofmany:

There is nothing that JWC or John could seed here or say in a post that would make me want to throw up my hands and run away.  

Nobody should run away. Stand your ground and express yourself, whatever your view.

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Redding Shasta Jefferson USA
link 11/24/16 03:46:03AM @redding-shasta-jefferson-usa:

Exactly the point I was making.  

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sixpick
link 11/23/16 11:13:39AM @sixpick:

Doesn't look like much has changed.....

NWM it isn't going to change.  It would have been the same if people were whining about Hillary winning.  That's the reason each of us should accept what we can't change and start from there. 

The first thing you have to do is have a starting point of truth.  The truth is Trump will become President in January whether anyone likes it or not.  He will probably use some of the privileges granted to him by Obama's administration whether we like it or not.  After all elections have consequences and the losers can come along, but they have to ride in the back of the bus.  Don't act stupidly like the cops did.

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Randy
link 11/23/16 11:32:50PM @randy:

Doesn't look like much has changed.....

Nowhere-man is right. I took a few months off and came back and nothing had changed. No matter the subject on the FP you can almost absolutely guess who is going to say what word for word. Who is going to get angry. Who is going to say something ideological. Who is going to joke about it. Who is going to say something stupid and so on. It doesn't matter if it's about a Republican or a Democrat or an Independent or anyone else, because the FP is almost always filled with political articles and comments that drive everything else away. It's no longer a discussion site when everyone is so predictable. It's just the same record being played over and over again. It's not the constant arguing that is the FP's problem. The problem is that the FP has become boring.

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Gunny
link 11/24/16 12:05:35AM @gunny:

And you know that I have been saying that same thing for a long time, Randy. Welcome aboard.

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Randy
link 11/24/16 12:37:27PM @randy:

I wish there was an emoticon for a high five on that. Not always, but most of the time it's like watching the same TV show over and over again. The subject changes, but it's always the same cast of characters, repeating nearly the same lines and the plot is nearly always the same. And when someone puts something different up on the FP it has a lifespan on a normal day of about a half hour and it's gone because the same people want to argue the same way as 100 articles before (often with the exact same arguments or links) or, more often, some troll comes on and answers a whole bunch of questions with 1 or 2 word answers that really don't say much of anything in a article they like just to drive the one they don't like away. They're like children in a sandbox.

Time to turn the channel from what has become Nickelodeon.

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Dean Moriarty
link 11/23/16 07:38:51AM @dean-moriarty:

All this BS Nazi Trump is a racist crap should soon be coming to an end. It has been reported Trump has offered Carson a black man a cabinet position and he's narrowed his choice for head of the Treasury to two people and they are both Jews. 

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sixpick
link 11/23/16 11:46:52AM @sixpick:

You know how you can test the Electoral College?  First we have to agree we want everyone across this great country to have a voice in the election of our President. 

In doing this we have to test the extreme situations that could exist, like testing a boiler in its present design to see how much pressure it could withstand before it blew up or how fast a particular car can hit a wall before it kills the driver of that car.  There are probably better examples, but I'll use these for this example.

California keeps allowing people to enter the state and somehow figures a way for everyone to vote whether they are legal or illegal.  In the extreme situation they add 10 or more million people to their voter roster who all will be voting Democrat.  We could use even higher figures by adding states like NY, TX, FL and any other state that is susceptible to having large amounts of Democrat voters for one reason or another.

Now keep in mind we are a fair and just country and we don't want to leave anyone out like the transgenders who want to use the little girls rooms, the point 3 percent of the population, so how will the people in the smaller states make out in this scenario with the Popular Vote?  How will they fair with the Electoral College?  Which one will they still have a voice and which one will their voice be taken away from them?

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A. Macarthur
link 11/24/16 09:54:44AM @a-macarthur:

POINT OF ORDER

Look carefully at the comments herein; how many have addressed the very specific and significant points I have raised several times?

How many criticize me et al for not wanting to be involved in these so-called "discussions", and that, for the very reason, these "discussions" not only fail to actually discuss and debate specifics, but instead, become insult and snark-festivals and tangential bullshit criticizing the fact that a member would even dare to post one!

Look at the comments ... LOOK!

215 comments at the moment … not bad for someone who allegedly "quit" … but LOOK AT THE COMMENTS.

Can no one see what the FP has become? Look at the article and look at the comments … look at the specifics and try to find actual discussion related to them. 

If, in your personal or professional lives, you tried to engage someone in a conversation on a specific subject or issue, and, that someone berated you for even raising the issue, did so multiple times while evading the question ... how many such episodes of that kind from that person, would it take before you said "see ya' later"?

Beg the questions and insult the one asking them ... and those who do so repeatedly can't figure out exactly why they (et al) are annoying, if not infuriating, to be around?

And the very few herein who actually addressed any of the questions/issues I broached … GAVE MISINFORMATION IN CONJUNCTION WITH THE ISSUES … and did so in such a way as if they knew what they were stating … ALTHOUGH THEY DID NOT, AND WORSE … piled on to an already too-tall pile of divisive crap.

See you in the photography and creative art areas until such time as we can communicate ... we can disagree -- which makes things interesting, but if disagreement is fraught with "bad facts" (a euphemism), and, can't be done respectfully and specifically, those with common sense will eventually walk away and those who continue to metaphorically "piss on the floor" ... will eventually slosh around with the other sloshers.

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JohnRussell
link 11/24/16 10:06:20AM @johnrussell:

I have posted many articles about the new administration's plans and policies since the election, and his conflicts of interest , and his new cabinet and advisors, (as has JWC Blue and Randy)  almost all of which has been ignored here.  The articles getting comments are all about the failure of the Democrats and how Clinton belongs in prison, and "snowflakes" and "riots". This is of course because it is very hard to defend Donald Trump on any objective basis. 

Whatever, I will do what I do regardless, but this forum is definitely off track. 

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PJ
link 11/24/16 10:23:50AM @pj:

 

Hello……. (pause)     hello……… hello………  Just as I suspected - I'm stuck in an echo chamber.  chuckle

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Gunny
link 11/24/16 06:36:19PM @gunny:

JRthumbs down

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Dean Moriarty
link 11/24/16 10:29:42AM @dean-moriarty:

When one opens up and article by throwing this pile of crap in peoples faces they are going to get crap thrown back in return. 

"I stay away from the FP primarily because the usuals, IMO, have at least one thing in common, that being … they voted for and/or supported in discussions, the CANDIDATE WHO HATES THE SAME PEOPLE THEY DO, that manifested in a number of ways, all of which necessitate their buying the bullshit up-and-down-the-line. To perpetuate and empower a hater-agenda, looking the other way from Trumpisms while summarily accepting all anti-Clinton rhetoric, was requisite"

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1ofmany
link 11/24/16 11:36:34AM @1ofmany:

All I'm getting from this is that some people can't accept a contrary view or they're hyper sensitive about how a contrary view is expressed or both. Nothing anybody says bothers me at all. I can do without the personal insults but, otherwise, I think we should all be free to say whatever we want in the manner we want to say it and people can respond (or not) as they choose. If you want to control a discussion, you're free to limit freedom with redbox rules but that kind of discussion usually doesn't interest me. If you think what's posted is boring and the responses predicable, then post something different. AMac does that with pictures and Kavika sometimes does it with interesting non-political articles. 

Happy Thanksgiving to all . . . I'm sure everyone has something for which they can be thankful.

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Gunny
link 11/24/16 06:44:43PM @gunny:

thumbs down

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A. Macarthur
link 11/24/16 10:54:33AM @a-macarthur:

 


When one opens up and article by throwing this pile of crap in peoples faces they are going to get crap thrown back in return. 

"I stay away from the FP primarily because the usuals, IMO, have at least one thing in common, that being … they voted for and/or supported in discussions, the CANDIDATE WHO HATES THE SAME PEOPLE THEY DO, that manifested in a number of ways, all of which necessitate their buying the bullshit up-and-down-the-line. To perpetuate and empower a hater-agenda, looking the other way from Trumpisms while summarily accepting all anti-Clinton rhetoric, was requisite"

Next election cycle, I suggest you actually pay attention to what is said, implied … to candidates who don't talk specifics with regard to policies, who incite and pander to bigots.

Trump is already, before taking office, guilty of the very "pay-to-play" politics that he wrongly attributed to Clinton; he has violated the emolument clause of the Constitution, and yet, the uninformed who indeed bought the bullshit and ignored the realities, continue to do so. 

Check the Trump-voter reactions when the hate-speak flows.

 

Back up your allegations instead of summary dismissals lest they define you. By evading my specific questions and continuing to foist the same fact-void crap as before, whether or not you voted for Trump, by virtue of what you persist in, you (and those who emulate you) support him, and overtly or by proxy, give numbers to his following of haters.

Those to whom I refer to as "the usuals," be they left or right, have something in comment … when they can't refute it -- they still don't dispute it, and when they can't dispute it -- they haven't the integrity to refute it.

Convenient untruths often rule the day … on both sides … and that is the main reason we cannot seem to meet somewhere near the middle.

 

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Gunny
link 11/24/16 06:42:09PM @gunny:

thumbs down

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A. Macarthur
link 11/24/16 09:43:24PM @a-macarthur:

Speaking of the usual stuff from the usual stuff-purveyors, earlier, one such stuffer posted seven or eight consecutive emoticons … no thoughts, no discussion, just little cartoons.

How 'bout so many consecutive examples of the usual from one of our members doing his usual?

USUAL -- "habitually or typically occurring or done"

Another adverse act, repeated in order to do nothing but annoy.

 

Multiple, same reasons to hang around? ... Sure, if you enjoy pointless, stupid and annoying.

 

What do you think someone coming to NT for the first time might expect of our site after the cartoon show?

 

Who would consider walking away from such rich dialogue?

Uhmmm, how 'bout current or prospective members who don't want to deal with vitriol, stupidity and frivolous drivel when the hoped for serious issues are posited for discussion?

I offer no apologies or equivocation regarding keeping my distance from mean-spirited, evasive, dumb actions that hurt the site.

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Petey Coober
link 11/24/16 09:48:19PM @petey-coober:

I offer no apologies or equivocation regarding keeping my distance from mean-spirited, evasive, dumb actions that hurt the site.

When R U gonna thank me for saving you from becoming a victim of your own anger ?

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A. Macarthur
link 11/24/16 10:16:18PM @a-macarthur:

When R U gonna thank me for saving you from becoming a victim of your own anger ?

Petey,

I have thought all along that your concern was other than real … a jab of sorts. But, you have expressed the same concern enough times so that I have to believe in its sincerity, and indeed, say "thank you".

No question, I have anger and have had it for a life time. Injustice, unfairness, hatred, abuse of power, willful ignorance … and more … they do occupy much of my time.

I do have better moments … peaceful, contemplative hours in forests, along streams … look at my photos and artwork … they are composed in such ways and with such subjects as to evoke a sense of some "order" among the oft-apparent chaos. I write about my anger and that gives me a release … but, it doesn't dissolve it.

I walk 2-4 miles every day, hit the gym three days every week (since 1999) and have a great family life.

Still, I know there are no guarantees … anger may victimize me in time.

So, you finally got through … I thank you for your expressed concern and your persistence in reminding me to chill.

You are owed a thanks … 

And again, I thank you.

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Petey Coober
link 11/24/16 11:04:56PM @petey-coober:

I have thought all along that your concern was other than real … a jab of sorts.

I guess I will have to spell out "hypothetically" instead of using the shortened "if" ... Wink

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Gunny
link 11/26/16 08:40:23PM @gunny:

thumbs down

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Gunny
link 11/24/16 11:37:25PM @gunny:

Quit the whining you big baby. everyone has discussed your point but you won't listen so the only thing left is emoticoms.

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A. Macarthur
link 11/25/16 11:42:12AM @a-macarthur:

Quit the whining you big baby. everyone has discussed your point but you won't listen so the only thing left is emoticoms.

You're the whiner in this conversation; very few have discussed the points I've raised, in fact, only one of the points has been discussed … and you haven't taken up a single one. Whining about members wanting viable conversation is what you've been doing.

Feel free to take any of the points (listed multiple times in RED) and by all means, take a stand; but don't play the "big baby" card every time someone bitches about behavior that makes the site look petty, mean-spirited and intellectually constipated.

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Gunny
link 11/25/16 01:55:44PM @gunny:

No son I am not the whiner, I said for you to quit the cry baby shit and lets get on with making this country whole again.  But you insist like the others that everything about this election is wrong.  How childish. your goddess lost now is the time to new efforts for a complete country.  You and you friends are only trying to tear it apart with your BS. Your RED POINTS have been discussed for eons on this site and still you reject even the discussions out right, because you want everyone to bend to your way.  Ain't gonna happen Bud.  So I say again quit the whining and baby tantrum throwing and lets get on with this country.  I even said that both sides need to quit dividing this country and get going.  

Besides you did say you were going into hiding in your groups so don't let the door hit you in the ass on your way out.  Another think you can't keep your word about.

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A. Macarthur
link 11/25/16 02:58:52PM @a-macarthur:

 


No son I am not the whiner, I said for you to quit the cry baby shit and lets get on with making this country whole again.  But you insist like the others that everything about this election is wrong.  How childish. your goddess lost now is the time to new efforts for a complete country.  You and you friends are only trying to tear it apart with your BS. Your RED POINTS have been discussed for eons on this site and still you reject even the discussions out right, because you want everyone to bend to your way.  Ain't gonna happen Bud.  So I say again quit the whining and baby tantrum throwing and lets get on with this country.  I even said that both sides need to quit dividing this country and get going.  

Oh, good, a conversation.

I did not conclude that "everything about this election is wrong," I asked important questions about its logistics … and invited you and anyone else to comment on those logistics. By doing so, any/all who choose to do so will offer their opinions as to what they see as right or wrong regarding the election.

My red points HAVE NEVER BEEN DISCUSSED IN CONJUNCTION WITH THIS PARTICULAR ELECTION (NOR IN THE PAST, PARTICULARLY WITH REGARD TO THE HACKING BY RUSSIANS AND THE FBI INTERFERENCE), and asking for give-and-take discussion tears nothing apart, it allows people a chance to express themselves … providing understanding regarding differences instead of forming conclusions based on speculation and biases.

Besides you did say you were going into hiding in your groups so don't let the door hit you in the ass on your way out.  Another think you can't keep your word about.

Not exactly: read the headline … "No plan to return to the front page after this" discussion. I might have better expressed myself by distinguishing between a plan vs. an intention.

I can't fault you for taking my words to imply that I have no intention of returning to the FP … I can see you come to that conclusion; I should have said, i.e., "I'm not sure what will motivate me to return to what has been a cesspool of acrimony, lies and hatred accompanied by gangbanging, insults and everything but give-and-take discussion."

This discussion, while starting out with the USUAL regarding that end, has evolved to what it should be, namely lively conversation, agreement, disagreement, and a tailing off of the insults (of which I have been somewhat guilty as well).

both sides need to quit dividing this country and get going.  

I agree; but until Americans trust the integrity of candidates and the processes by which they are elected or rejected, resolve the tendency of many to vote for reasons of racial, religious and other narrow reasons, we will stay divided.

Thank you for expressing yourself, it adds to the discussion and the site.

Peace.

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Gunny
link 11/25/16 07:06:21PM @gunny:

Everyone here on this site has answered and discussed your points if issue. but you still do not listen nor WANT to listen to the truth. That is your right.  But it is also our right to not have this berating nonsense cluttering up the front page.

Get over you fears be a man and get to making this country whole.

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A. Macarthur
link 11/25/16 07:21:08PM @a-macarthur:

Everyone here on this site has answered and discussed your points if issue. but you still do not listen nor WANT to listen to the truth. That is your right.  But it is also our right to not have this berating nonsense cluttering up the front page.

Only one (possibly two) of the issues has been discussed in this thread. 

Get over you fears be a man and get to making this country whole.

A "man" has the courage to take a stand and maintain it if it's his sincere belief/position/verifiable fact.

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Gunny
link 11/25/16 11:30:10PM @gunny:

Yeah your right about a man taking a stand. Soon that man will be standing alone and wondering where everyone went.

ALL you points have been discussed.  But then again you are like Perrie you only read what you want.

It's the same as selective hearing. and blind in one eye and can't see out the other.

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jwc2blue
link 11/25/16 11:53:48AM @jwc2blue:

 no thoughts, no discussion, just little cartoons.

Kinda says it all, doesn't it?

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Nowhere Man
link 11/25/16 12:09:37AM @nowhere-man:

I'm tired, my term is soon over, and I won't be re-elected.

The campaign is done, time to go home.

Experience isn't listened to anymore, it's all about what singulars think everyone wants or should have and no one's opinion is as accurate or viable as their own.

It's a selfish world I'm retiring from. Also one in which the few think they know better than the many.

I'm ready for retirement. My brand of freedom is no longer wanted. The reasoning of the creators of this great nation is no longer held as valid. and should be throw out for expediency's sake or a pyrrhic victory.

Time to make my peace with this world.

Get my affairs in order and ready for the next.....

I'll just pop in from time to time to say hi to those who would like that. But I've retired from all else.

Let the fear mongers and selfish take over.

It's just not worth it anymore....

 

 

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JohnRussell
link 11/25/16 12:15:53AM @johnrussell:

You dont have to quit and no one wants you to

Stop pontificating

If I say I know what plurality means , then I know what plurality means. Ok? 

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Kavika
link 11/25/16 12:39:41AM @kavika:

Oh for Christ's sake NWM, stop with the melodrama...

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sixpick
link 11/25/16 12:55:34AM @sixpick:

Come on NWM....  I've learned a lot from you and other members.  I'm sure others have as well.  You have spent a lot of time studying and even though no one agrees with any of us all the time I really would hate to see you go.  BF said it best when he said he didn't have an emotional investment in internet politics.  I think we should all think about that.  Say what we want.  Put forth what we have with no expectations of anyone agreeing with us and accepting it when they don't.

The main thing to remember right now is you don't have to worry about the Electoral College because you know they'll never reach the threshold of number of states needed who will cut their own throats, at least during our lifetime.

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Nowhere Man
link 11/25/16 03:30:04AM @nowhere-man:

Pontificating, Melodrama, right everyone is a cynic and an expert in what is going on with others.

It's really isn't about quitting a forum, It's about the big quit, the one we all face eventually.

My day is arriving, according to the medical people. Don't know the exact time and hour and I have competing estimates,  but I will be seeing my last Christmas this year, and might make it to my next birthday, but no guarantees.

So to be honest with ya I really don't care what they say, it can't possibly effect me anymore. It is really a decision if I wish to deal with the petty bullshite of a minor internet forum.

And some people who really haven't a clue, but insist they do.

My life is way to short at this point to worry about any of this anymore.

If some have gained some worth from my efforts great, I was glad to be of service. If others haven't, their problem not mine.

I don't expect anything from anyone.

To be honest I really do not know why I came back here, I told the people who's e-mail address I have kept .

I've terminated all my political contacts and am now officially completely out of politics.

Mostly off the various fora I used to participate in, I guess I'm looking for a final home. Something to keep the mind working while waiting for the inevitable.

Severed all my loosely held business contacts, made what financial arrangements I can and have planned for those when it's over. Making sure the wife is taken care of before I sign off.

Important things.

Things that matter.

Mostly accepting that this is it, what I have accomplished in life is enough, it has to be cause there ain't really that much more I can accomplish.

Besides, who will care?

The sum total of my life would be sad to measure on an internet forum. The highs and the lows, the greatest wins, the lousiest defeats. No one knows, most who were there are already gone,and I'm out of touch with the rest.

I love this country, gave a good chunk of my life to it.

To be honest what I'm doing here is deciding if I'm an idiot to think that people can still care about this country or just wish to tear it down.

But then I'm an old fool, bandying around with ghosts.

Anyway, same ol' same ol' I may stop back by and say hi to a few, I wish there was a way to do it privately other than e-mail.

There are some of you that I would really like to chat with one on one.....

But this forum doesn't lend itself to such....

Later my friends

NWM

 

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1ofmany
link 11/25/16 08:54:06AM @1ofmany:

NWM -- I'm deeply saddened to know that the world will lose your council and I understand that you must now make every moment count. I truly appreciate the time you took to share your thoughts with us and you will be greatly missed. Until we meet again. 

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Gunny
link 11/25/16 09:53:17AM @gunny:

applauseNWM, I know the feeling and I too am limited to time.  Have already made all the final preparations, plus I will only take space on my daughters mantel. The time is soon and I have no regrets as I am sure that you don't.  

I now only come here for the friends I have and to fight the good fight whatever that may be for me.  Keep in touch till.........

Your friend Gunny.

 

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Dowser
link 11/25/16 12:00:35PM @dowser:

My dear friend-- I'm so sorry to learn of your illness!  Every day is a gracious gift, and I don't blame you one bit for not wanting to spend it here, with all the vitriol going on...

That being said, I love you very much, and you are in my prayers.  Please call me if you need anything!  I will do whatever I can from here to be of help.

LOVE to you, and know that I will miss you being here!

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PJ
link 11/25/16 12:13:09PM @pj:

I'm sad that I didn't have more time to get to know you better and to give you more of a hard time.  I do like fighting with you hahahaha  {:0)  but I also loved hearing about your adventures.  You have my personal email so please reach out if you want to chat or fight.  With great affection and admiration - Patti

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Redding Shasta Jefferson USA
link 11/25/16 03:28:58PM @redding-shasta-jefferson-usa:

Sorry NWM to read about your situation.  I lost my dad a few years ago to a rare cancer and when he was told he had less than a year, he fought and made it 9 yrs beyond that point in 1998.  Keep up the good fight and do what makes you happy and have no regrets with the time you have left.  

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1ofmany
link 11/25/16 03:38:54PM @1ofmany:

I hope NWM beats the odds and proves the doctors wrong. My prayers are with him.

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Buzz of the Orient
link 11/25/16 10:07:52PM @buzz-of-the-orient:

"Besides, who will care?"

I care. Nobody else took the trouble to post classic movies on Classic Cinema, providing a service that was not available elsewhere. And I, being a person who has been complimented many times on my photo essays, did and now state again that mine paled in comparison to yours. I may not have always agreed with your comments but most of the time I did, and I know that NT will miss a person of your common sense and ability to express his opinions intelligently.

In the meantime, try to think positively.  Perhaps by doing so, my sister-in-law outlived the doctors' opinions of her impending demise by many years.

 

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dennis smith
link 11/25/16 11:47:16AM @dennis-smith:

JR - you still refuse to accept the results and continue with schoolyard comments

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A. Macarthur
link 11/25/16 12:17:37PM @a-macarthur:

Regardless of our politics, if/when any member of The NT needs a helping hand or a sympathetic ear (on the site or on the phone), I offer that here and now and make it a standing offer at that.

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A. Macarthur
link 11/26/16 07:34:10PM @a-macarthur:

FOR THE RECORD …

Although there is a bit of persistence in posting THE USUAL discussion-killing stuff, DON'T LOOK NOW, BUT THIS HAS BECOME AN EXCELLENT, ACTUAL, GIVE-AND-TAKE, HIGH-LEVEL DEBATE!

Now, I have a plan.

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Gunny
link 11/26/16 07:34:38PM @gunny:

This is how I see all this whining and crying from those who THINK they are being men and standing up for something that is BS.

For one thing the Constitution controls these elections and how the Electoral College votes go.  I see y'all have one of two choices.

1. Start the process to have the Constitution changed,  see ya in about 10 years and good luck with that.

2. Don't like the Constitution?  Leave and don't let the door hit you in your ass on the way out.  See you never again.

So all this BS articles on the election that no one wants to discuss anymore because they are sick and tired of the whiners, needs to cease.  Lets get on with other REAL news.

 

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A. Macarthur
link 11/26/16 07:47:58PM @a-macarthur:

This is how I see all this whining and crying from those who THINK they are being men and standing up for something that is BS.

For one thing the Constitution controls these elections and how the Electoral College votes go.  I see y'all have one of two choices.

1. Start the process to have the Constitution changed,  see ya in about 10 years and good luck with that.

2. Don't like the Constitution?  Leave and don't let the door hit you in your ass on the way out.  See you never again.

So all this BS articles on the election that no one wants to discuss anymore because they are sick and tired of the whiners, needs to cease.  Lets get on with other REAL news.

Don't like me or other members taking advantage of our First Amendment rights, follow your own advice and leave the discussion instead of yourself whining.

Who are you to declare closure on who wants to discuss what.

Got real news?

Post it.

Otherwise, we're having a discussion on The NT.

Feel free leave it.

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Gunny
link 11/26/16 08:11:57PM @gunny:

I am me and I can say what is on my mind. don't like it then don't read it. go on to something else. But I do think the concensus is that enough is enough.

Your not discussing anything, you are dictating your beliefs and trying to force people to regurgitate the same BS that can't be changed except by changing the Constitution.  I know your MO here is to get this article the most comments, and I am helping with that because there is no thumbs down for the garbage you spew.

I am doing my 1st amendment rights by telling you, your a panty waist piss poor loser.  Don't like people confronting you then STFU. and I will do the same.  When you do.

I'm standing up for my rights by standing up to you.

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A. Macarthur
link 11/26/16 08:24:16PM @a-macarthur:

I am me and I can say what is on my mind. don't like it then don't read it. go on to something else. But I do think the concesus is that enough is enough.

 

And we, the rest of us can do the same. Don't like it … when members no longer comment. enough will reveal itself.

 

Your not discussing anything, you are dictating your beliefs and trying to force people to regurgitate the same BS that can't be changed except by changing the Constitution.  

 

You mean everyone who disagrees with me in this thread has actually been forced to assimilate my beliefs and regurgitate everything I've stated?

 

I know you MO here is to get this article the most comments, and I am helping with that because there is no thumbs down for the garbage you spew.

 

Do you read minds and motives?

 

I doing my 1st amendment rights by telling you your a pansy waist piss poor loser.  Don't like people confronting you then STFU. and I will do the same.  When you do.

I'm standing up for my rights by standing up to you.

 

Pansy waist? 

 

I do want people to confront me if it makes for lively discussion. And I'm standing up for my rights just as you are.

 

Kindred spirits!

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Gunny
link 11/26/16 08:30:18PM @gunny:

I'll make you a deal so I and anyone else will never have to comment on your BS idiotic articles again.

Reinstate the thumbs down function and that is all we will use to show our displeasure with your garbage.

Yeah panty waist.  Pansy if you prefer that. Hey stand up for what you want and be "Mr Lonely". 

You forget that many of us are friends here and we discuss among ourselves these things.

 

I didn't say they were being forced to assimilate your communistic ideas and beliefs, just getting sick and tired of it.

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A. Macarthur
link 11/26/16 08:46:59PM @a-macarthur:

I'll make you a deal so I and anyone else will never have to comment on your BS idiotic articles again.

Reinstate the thumbs down function and that is all we will use to show our displeasure with your garbage.

That might work; never again will you need to come up with a complicated thought. After all, why use your mind when you can reveal its totality in the volume of a thumb?

Yeah panty waist.  Pansy if you prefer that. Hey stand up for what you want and be "Mr Lonely". 

Serves me right for taking a stand; why use one's brain and have Bobby Vinton singing in your ear all the time?

You forget that many of us are friends here and we discuss among ourselves these things.

My heart soars like a hawk in joyous celebration of your human associations and the fact that discussions occur.

I didn't say they were being forced to assimilate your communistic ideas and beliefs, just getting sick and tired of it.

You need to read what you said, to realize you added to it in the sentence just above, and, that you are not only getting sick and tired, but … (go talk among your friends and discuss how the sentence ends.

Otherwise, Gunny, rather than do this shit all the time (along with the thumbs), why not express your disagreement with the content I post instead? I'll respect that. And do you not realize that I can't force members to comment in a discussion? 

Discussions end when no one continues to discuss. You're helping to prolong this discussion by complaining that it's being prolonged.

 

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Gunny
link 11/26/16 11:01:00PM @gunny:

And your answers are like a snotty nose kid.  childish and not able to provoke me to commiting a CoC violation My thoughts you do not need to hear as you would cringe before me.  So this is the last I will say and everything else will be thumbs down and emoticoms that you do not like.

So have fun being the cock of the walk and maybe some one will pay you more attention than I.

as that is all you crave is attention and to be honored like Hillary. your goddess.

Bye

I will add this You do not rate even an inkling of thought from me, as you not worthy.

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A. Macarthur
link 11/27/16 09:45:36AM @a-macarthur:

I will add this You do not rate even an inkling of thought from me, as you not worthy.

And yet, you left what comes damned close to the "inkling of thought" from you despite my unworthiness.

Why leave now when you're so close having expressed one.

Dammit, Gunny, instead of the name-calling and bitching, why not just argue the content?

 

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Gunny
link 11/28/16 11:33:04AM @gunny:

Because YOU DO NOT LISTEN. many here have argued the points but you dismiss them right away. So why should any one beat their heads against the brick wall, they will only get a headache.  You do not want discussion you want compliance to your way.  Sorry I learned a long time ago to not argue with some one who has no reasoning, nor the ability TO LISTEN.  Well what little name calling I do seems to rile you so I will leave it up to you to either listen or leave.

One last thing that you seem not to understand. and it encompasses all your red points.  YOU HAVE TO CHANGE THE CONSTITUTION TO GET WHAT YOU WANT FOR YOUR COMMUNISTIC AGENDA, good luck with that.

 

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1stwarrior
link 11/28/16 12:28:03PM @1stwarrior:

Quite simply A. Mac - there is no "content" to this thread.  It's a mish-mash of slams from both sides on just about any subject someone wants to bring up, including but not limited to, your lead in.

You should close this totally meandering thread.

JMHO.

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Buzz of the Orient
link 11/26/16 10:42:27PM @buzz-of-the-orient:

I just thought of a good adaptation of a well-known adage that could be used by the Trump supporters, due to Trump's decision not to pursue criminal proceedings against Hillary.

"A change is as good as an arrest."

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