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Trump Assassination Play Is Sponsored By The New York Times

  

Category:  News & Politics

Via:  sixpick  •  7 years ago  •  186 comments

Trump Assassination Play Is Sponsored By The New York Times

6/9/2017

A “Shakespeare in the Park” production of Julius Caesar by the Public Theater features a mock assassination of a President Donald Trump lookalike. Public Theater is sponsored by none other than The New York Times.

~Video~


The play, a contemporary update on the original, does not refer to the president by name — but their Caesar character holds a striking resemblance to Trump and his wife to the First Lady.

“Shakespeare’s political masterpiece has never felt more contemporary,” the Public Theatre wrote of the play on their website . They describe the updated Caesar character as a “magnetic, populist, irreverent,” who “seems bent on absolute power.”

During the play, the Caesar character appears on stage fully nude — as well as tweeting from a bathtub — before being stabbed to death by senators as an American Flag stands beside them.

Who do theater-goers have to thank for this Trump-centric work? Here’s a passage from the “ Corporate Partners” page on the Public Theater website (emphasis added):

“The Public Theater has cultivated successful ongoing partnerships with several leading corporations including Bank of America, Delta Air Lines, The New York Times , American Express, and others. We offer sponsorship opportunities which enhance awareness and visibility of your brand, targeted activations, and provide opportunities for client entertainment, unique experiences and exciting benefits for employees. Year-round, season, or program-specific sponsorships can include a multitude of customizable benefits based on a corporation’s needs and initiatives. Whether it’s entertaining clients at Free Shakespeare in the Park…”

The New York Times did not return a request for comment for this report as of press time.

“I always go to Shakespeare in the park, but I wasn’t expecting to see this,” Laura Sheaffer, who saw the play on Saturday, told Mediaite . “To be honest I thought it was shocking and distasteful. If this had happened to any other president — even as recently as Barack Obama or George W. Bush — it would not have flown. People would have been horrified.”

“I mean it was the on-stage murder of the president of the United States,” Sheaffer said.

The play, which opened on May 23, was directed by Oskar Eustis and features stage actor John Douglas Thompson and House of Cards actor Corey Stoll.

“Julius Caesar can be read as a warning parable to those who try to fight for democracy by undemocratic means,” Eustis wrote in a statement featured on the Public Theater’s website. “To fight the tyrant does not mean imitating him.”

The New York Times has had an extremely contentious relationship with President Trump, who refers to the newspaper as the “failing New York Times .”

On Thursday, former FBI Director James Comey confirmed that they had published fake news about the president while claiming to have information from an anonymous source regarding contact between members of the Trump campaign and Russian officials. “In the main, it was not true,” Comey said of their report.

~Link~


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sixpick
Professor Quiet
link   seeder  sixpick    7 years ago

The fact is there's a whole lot of killing going on in this country and world as a whole.  Those claiming their devotion to Allah from a sick interpretation of a love to what should be peaceful are without a doubt proving they put no value on anyone's life who doesn't feel the same way they do is evident of their intentions.

I'm not sure the Liberals as a rule are dedicated to killing people, but rather dedicated to a more Socialist form of government for the people, but I believe there are some who are so dedicated to this desire, killing those who won't go along with it could face a vermin as bad as Islamic Fascist.

 
 
 
sixpick
Professor Quiet
link   seeder  sixpick    7 years ago

Bank of America Delta Airlines American Express.JPG

 
 
 
Buzz of the Orient
Professor Expert
link   Buzz of the Orient  replied to  sixpick   7 years ago

I don't understand this comment. Are they sponsors of that disgusting play?

 
 
 
sixpick
Professor Quiet
link   seeder  sixpick  replied to  Buzz of the Orient   7 years ago

Yes they are the sponsors.  They may not even be aware of the play, but in this day and time and with the super biased media NYT has shown, I would think it would be to their benefit to condemn something like this.

I hope you can see this Buzz.  Let me know.

 
 
 
Buzz of the Orient
Professor Expert
link   Buzz of the Orient  replied to  sixpick   7 years ago

Jerked its way through the first time, but perfect when repeated.  No problem. My only problem is with the message of the play and the vicious animals in the audience that gave it a standing ovation. Savages. Americans have become savages.

 
 
 
sixpick
Professor Quiet
link   seeder  sixpick  replied to  Buzz of the Orient   7 years ago

LOL!!!!  I shouldn't laugh, but just the way you said it.  I think there are many on here who feel it is very inappropriate as well.  It only they would step forward and let it be known.

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
link   JohnRussell  replied to  sixpick   7 years ago

The problem with this sentence is that the character in the play is Caesar. Unless they changed the text of the play it is not Trump. It is given a present day visual appearance, which has been done many times with plays that are hundreds of years old. I believe there is a version of Romeo and Juliet where the cast and setting looks like a science fiction movie.

Personally I find this new production distasteful.

 
 
 
sixpick
Professor Quiet
link   seeder  sixpick  replied to  JohnRussell   7 years ago

Me too.  Thank you John.

 
 
 
Petey Coober
Freshman Silent
link   Petey Coober  replied to  sixpick   7 years ago

Wow ... Bank of America in trouble again ?!

 
 
 
Buzz of the Orient
Professor Expert
link   Buzz of the Orient    7 years ago

The people involved with this play most likely never were disciplined properly by their parents. I was brought up to respect others and if I did not, my father brought home a thick rope if his belt didn't do the trick any more, and just from seeing it I made sure he didn't have to use it.  Personally, I think everyone involved with it or okaying its being shown need to have the shit kicked out of them.

 
 
 
sixpick
Professor Quiet
link   seeder  sixpick  replied to  Buzz of the Orient   7 years ago

Unfortunately these are not children.

 
 
 
Buzz of the Orient
Professor Expert
link   Buzz of the Orient    7 years ago

No comments from the liberals on this site. I guess they see nothing wrong with the promotion of assassinating their president.

 
 
 
sixpick
Professor Quiet
link   seeder  sixpick  replied to  Buzz of the Orient   7 years ago

Give it time.

 
 
 
PJ
Masters Quiet
link   PJ  replied to  sixpick   7 years ago

I'm anti PC and I thought the right leaning members were also.  Just curious how you guys decide what falls into the PC category and what is okay?

 
 
 
Cerenkov
Professor Silent
link   Cerenkov  replied to  PJ   7 years ago

We know it when we see it.

 
 
 
Aeonpax
Freshman Silent
link   Aeonpax    7 years ago

Oh my. A satirical version of the play, Julius Caesar, has members of the  far right so upset, they are urinating in their pants. First thing, get them some "Depends", then send in the emergency nannies.

 
 
 
Petey Coober
Freshman Silent
link   Petey Coober  replied to  Aeonpax   7 years ago

A satirical version of the play, Julius Caesar

Nah , It  was a distortion of the play for political purposes ...

 
 
 
Aeonpax
Freshman Silent
link   Aeonpax  replied to  Petey Coober   7 years ago

Be that as it may, but the over reaction and subsequent outrage over something so trivial is proof positive that our current political has completely degenerated.

 

 
 
 
Bob Nelson
Professor Guide
link   Bob Nelson  replied to  Petey Coober   7 years ago

Petey...

It  was a distortion of the play for political purposes ...

Julius Caesar is a political play. Shakespeare wrote it as a political play. It has been adapted to every epoch since it was written. You may not like this particular adaptation... but it is just plain silly to find fault with adapting the play to today's political scene. 

I wonder who they cast as Brutus? James Comey?

 
 
 
Petey Coober
Freshman Silent
link   Petey Coober  replied to  Bob Nelson   7 years ago

Shakespeare wrote it as a political play.

Yes , to object to the tyrannies of his time ...

 
 
 
Bob Nelson
Professor Guide
link   Bob Nelson  replied to  Petey Coober   7 years ago

Exactly. Elizabeth was not very open to criticism, so playwrights and authors wrote -- apparently -- about other topics, and part of the audience's fun was in spotting more or less hidden references. 

 
 
 
sixpick
Professor Quiet
link   seeder  sixpick  replied to  Aeonpax   7 years ago

Not me.  Well, at least since I was a little little boy.  the urinal is the place I piss the most.  Well, I find myself wanting to piss over bushes or over the fence to see how far I can piss.  Have you ever tried that Aeon?  You know lean back pull up spread your legs and let it fly. I bet you can piss for half a mile. LOL

 
 
 
Buzz of the Orient
Professor Expert
link   Buzz of the Orient  replied to  Aeonpax   7 years ago

Is that a fact? Prove it.

 
 
 
sixpick
Professor Quiet
link   seeder  sixpick  replied to  Buzz of the Orient   7 years ago

Are you asking me or Aeon?  I'm pretty shy about it myself.   We seem to have quite a few pissing contests on here every day, so we should have some really good contestants.

 
 
 
Buzz of the Orient
Professor Expert
link   Buzz of the Orient  replied to  sixpick   7 years ago

Ha ha!! No, I don't want you to prove to me how far you can piss - I directed my comment to Aeonpax to prove her statement but I should have put an address on it.

 
 
 
Aeonpax
Freshman Silent
link   Aeonpax  replied to  sixpick   7 years ago

Have you never heard of the term "political satire?"  I suppose not.

 
 
 
Buzz of the Orient
Professor Expert
link   Buzz of the Orient  replied to  Aeonpax   7 years ago

Even satire has limits of decency.  "Decency" - One needs a good memory to recall such a circumstance.

 
 
 
Cerenkov
Professor Silent
link   Cerenkov  replied to  Buzz of the Orient   7 years ago

It's a good example of liberals putting partisanship above principles though.

 
 
 
Aeonpax
Freshman Silent
link   Aeonpax  replied to  Buzz of the Orient   7 years ago

Decency is a subjective term. Know these things.

 
 
 
Buzz of the Orient
Professor Expert
link   Buzz of the Orient  replied to  Aeonpax   7 years ago

A word that will probably soon go into the trashheap of language and use.

 
 
 
Bob Nelson
Professor Guide
link   Bob Nelson  replied to  Buzz of the Orient   7 years ago

Buzz,

Even you aren't old enough to remember when a glimpse of feminine ankle was "indecent". winking

Times change... 

 
 
 
Buzz of the Orient
Professor Expert
link   Buzz of the Orient  replied to  Bob Nelson   7 years ago

Yes, sadly the word is defunct, and so is what it stands for.

 
 
 
Bob Nelson
Professor Guide
link   Bob Nelson  replied to  Buzz of the Orient   7 years ago

Personally, I am less worried about the make-believe "indecency" of actors playing roles in a park, than the very real indecency of the persons they were imitating. 

 
 
 
PJ
Masters Quiet
link   PJ  replied to  Bob Nelson   7 years ago

Hear, hear!  Well said Bob.

 
 
 
Aeonpax
Freshman Silent
link   Aeonpax  replied to  Buzz of the Orient   7 years ago

Duh?

 

 
 
 
Spikegary
Junior Quiet
link   Spikegary  replied to  Aeonpax   7 years ago

And no one is wetting their pants.  I didn't think you were a crude writer.  Learn something new everyday.

 

 
 
 
CM
Freshman Silent
link   CM    7 years ago

SIX:

Shakespeare in the Park has been in production since 1954..We have Free Shakespearean plays Every summer in NYC Parks...

RIGHT WINGERS Needs to get an education This is Bullshit..

 

 

 
 
 
Buzz of the Orient
Professor Expert
link   Buzz of the Orient  replied to  CM   7 years ago

What's your point? Did ANYONE say that there should not be Shakespeare in the Park performances?

 
 
 
CM
Freshman Silent
link   CM  replied to  Buzz of the Orient   7 years ago

What's your point? Did ANYONE say that there should not be Shakespeare in the Park performances?

 

Why are Right wingers Claiming this play is a mock assassination of Trump, Total Bullshit...This is Shakespeare, perhaps you all are admitting Trump's behavior is that of Caesar,  or Pharoah,  A Dictator..

 
 
 
Buzz of the Orient
Professor Expert
link   Buzz of the Orient  replied to  CM   7 years ago

Et tu, CM?

 
 
 
CM
Freshman Silent
link   CM  replied to  Buzz of the Orient   7 years ago
(deleted)
 
 
 
sixpick
Professor Quiet
link   seeder  sixpick  replied to  CM   7 years ago

What did you do, get up on the wrong side of the bed?  Have you watched the video?

 
 
 
Buzz of the Orient
Professor Expert
link   Buzz of the Orient  replied to  sixpick   7 years ago

CM could not possibly have watched the video before making that comment. 

 
 
 
sixpick
Professor Quiet
link   seeder  sixpick  replied to  Buzz of the Orient   7 years ago

I don't think so either Buzz.  CM has a good heart and it really doesn't matter whether it was Obama, Trump or Hillary.  I believe she shot from the hip and will see it differently in time.

I find it difficult to accept these people on this site have that much hate in them to see it any differently than we do.

 
 
 
Buzz of the Orient
Professor Expert
link   Buzz of the Orient  replied to  sixpick   7 years ago

I think if we ever had a poll as to the best avatar in NT, I would vote CM to be the winner. 

 
 
 
CM
Freshman Silent
link   CM  replied to  Buzz of the Orient   7 years ago

I think if we ever had a poll as to the best avatar in NT, I would vote CM to be the winner.

 

Thank you Buzz..This Avatar was chosen by my daughter which I believe depicts a little of my characteristics...

 
 
 
CM
Freshman Silent
link   CM  replied to  Buzz of the Orient   7 years ago

CM could not possibly have watched the video before making that comment.

 

You are correct Buzz, I did not see the Video until later, then I couldn't respond my computer was doing its own thing, so I agree, the depiction of trump was not necessary,  and  I do think  there seems  to be a message been sent. However, I have always thought of Trump as a Caesar, Napoleon Bonaparte.  some sort of Dictator..

 

 

 
 
 
sixpick
Professor Quiet
link   seeder  sixpick  replied to  CM   7 years ago

Thank you CM.  Good to see common sense and humanity haven't been replaced by so much hate you can't bring yourself to acknowledge the inappropriate depiction of the assassination of Caesar.

Batting 1 from the left.

I remember, I believe it was Krishna who said most people don't even read the articles, much less look at any videos before they post comments, so I'll consider that as a possibility as well for others on this site.

Thanks again for showing the kind of person you are as I already knew you were.

 
 
 
PJ
Masters Quiet
link   PJ  replied to  sixpick   7 years ago

Of course I didn't watch the video!  Why the hell would I do that?  I'm trying to put myself in the shoes of the average Trumpster......you know- not reading or watching it for myself but taking the word of someone else and adopting their opinion as fact.

I thought you'd be proud of me for trying to adopt the trumpster's method for determining my position.  

 
 
 
Old Hermit
Sophomore Silent
link   Old Hermit  replied to  CM   7 years ago

 

However, I have always thought of Trump as a Caesar, Napoleon Bonaparte.  some sort of Dictator..

 

Funny CM.

From the start of his campaign Trump has always made me think of Caligula, (as envisioned by the BBC version of Robert Graves, "I, Claudius").tumblr_mwxqmmdJFC1r4o7vqo3_400.gif

Related image

 

Where it's said that Caligula declared his favorite horse a consul, (as a mockery of the Senate as an institution), I can see a our own President Trump declaring Barron Trump to be a Senator in a similar show of contempt for today's governing institutions.

And, with President Trumps admitted history of sexual assault, it wouldn't be all that surprising to hear one day that he had turned the White House into a brothel, as Caligula was said to have done with his main palace.

Related image

 

 
 
 
Hal A. Lujah
Professor Guide
link   Hal A. Lujah  replied to  CM   7 years ago

I've always thought of Trump more as this guy:

 
 
 
Buzz of the Orient
Professor Expert
link   Buzz of the Orient  replied to  CM   7 years ago

@ CM

Your original comment was preserved in my email notification, but I'm glad you must have realized what it was that I had written and deleted your comment.

 
 
 
sixpick
Professor Quiet
link   seeder  sixpick  replied to  CM   7 years ago

CM, I'm really surprised at you.  You were so down on the comedian who was holding Trump's head and you want to tell me to get a grip on how long these plays have been going on.  Remember the outrage when the clown had a mask of Obama at the rodeo?  Well, that was nothing like this. 

Maybe I was wrong.  So far batting zero.

 
 
 
CM
Freshman Silent
link   CM  replied to  sixpick   7 years ago

CM, I'm really surprised at you.  You were so down on the comedian who was holding Trump's head and you want to tell me to get a grip on how long these plays have been going on.  Remember the outrage when the clown had a mask of Obama at the rodeo?  Well, that was nothing like this. 

Maybe I was wrong.  So far batting zero.

 

SIX:

Your Article is BullShit..

 

The Tragedy of Julius Caesar is a tragedy by William Shakespeare , believed to have been written in 1599. [1] It is one of several plays written by Shakespeare based on true events from Roman history , which also include Coriolanus and Antony and Cleopatra .

Although the title is Julius Caesar , Brutus speaks more than four times as many lines, and the central psychological drama of the play focuses on Brutus' struggle between the conflicting demands of honor , patriotism , and friendship .

 

 

 
 
 
XXJefferson51
Senior Guide
link   XXJefferson51  replied to  CM   7 years ago

"

Delta, BoA Drop Sponsorship of Shakespearean Depiction of Trump Assassination

GetFile.aspx?guid=bef93302-c50b-43e4-bb06-a4c70f54820f

(Playbill/Twitter)

By Wanda Carruthers
Sunday, 11 Jun 2017 9:41 PM


 

Delta Air Lines and Bank of America announced the were withdrawing sponsorship from an off-Broadway production of Shakespeare's "Julius Caesar," The New York Times reported Sunday night.

Delta said the play's simulated assassination of President Donald Trump "crossed the line," Deadline reported.

"No matter what your political stance may be, the graphic staging of 'Julius Caesar' at this summer's Free Shakespeare in the Park does not reflect Delta Air Lines' values," a company spokesman told Deadline Sunday. "Their artistic and creative direction crossed the line on the standards of good taste. We have notified them of our decision to end our sponsorship as the official airline of The Public Theater effective immediately."

The production features a modern-day depiction of the Shakespeare classic with the characters of Caesar and his wife Calpurnia looking like the president and first lady Melania Trump. Blood spews everywhere when members of the Roman Senate stab Caesar to death.

A spokesperson for the airline told the entertainment news website that Delta representatives had seen the show, which is produced by New York's Public Theater and has been playing at the Delacorte Theater in Central Park. The airline has suffered with brand identity after a computer glitch in January left thousands of travelers stranded.

Donald Trump Jr. questioned the use of public money for the theater production in a tweet over the weekend, writing, "I wonder how much of this 'art' is funded by taxpayers? Serious question, when does 'art' become political speech & does that change things?"

Delta contributes between $100,000 and $499,000 to the theater annually, the article explained, and there was no word if other major sponsors, which includes Bank of America, would follow suit.

The theater production comes after celebrities have showcased other graphic depictions of Trump, including comedienne Kathy Griffin, who lost major sponsors after a photo showed her holding a bloody head of the president, and rapper Snoop Dogg made a video where he shoots a clown that resembles Trump.

 

The play began its run May 23, with the official opening night set for Monday.

Related Stories:

 

 
 
 
Cerenkov
Professor Silent
link   Cerenkov  replied to  XXJefferson51   7 years ago

Well done. There are consequences involved with violent speech.

 
 
 
CM
Freshman Silent
link   CM    7 years ago

Thanks for reminding me, I need to get my tickets...

This Year: Julius Caesar and a Midsummer's Night Dream..

 
 
 
sixpick
Professor Quiet
link   seeder  sixpick  replied to  CM   7 years ago

You better hurry. You many want to watch the video first, though.

 
 
 
XXJefferson51
Senior Guide
link   XXJefferson51  replied to  sixpick   7 years ago

I can't believe anyone can defend this after reading your seed and seeing the video.  Simply amazing and sad.  

 
 
 
PJ
Masters Quiet
link   PJ    7 years ago

I don't believe it's Trump.  It's just a modern day depiction of Julius Caesar.  The fake news media is just presented it as if it were Trump and I refuse to believe what they are reporting.  I'm chalking this up to another story we can label "fake news". 

 
 
 
Cerenkov
Professor Silent
link   Cerenkov  replied to  PJ   7 years ago

Delta disagrees with you. They pulled funding.

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
link   JohnRussell    7 years ago

If the play consists of Shakespeare's words only, it can be seen as a modern day re-enaction of the play. How many people would go to see the actors in togas and sandals? That has been done hundreds of times already anyway.  If the production refers to Trump specifically, in the text, that would be a different story to me , and objectionable.

Also, I read in one article about this that in 2012 , when they did this play, Caesar looked like Obama. I haven't yet verified that story though.

 
 
 
1ofmany
Sophomore Silent
link   1ofmany    7 years ago

Comment accidently removed by system error. My apologies. Please feel free to replace. [ph]

 
 
 
Buzz of the Orient
Professor Expert
link   Buzz of the Orient  replied to  1ofmany   7 years ago

I agree completely. I wonder if the Caeser character were depicted to be JFK, with his wife wearing a pillbox hat to make identifiction easier, and a Nixon-appearing character stabbing JFK, would the crowd be so pleased?

 
 
 
1ofmany
Sophomore Silent
link   1ofmany  replied to  Buzz of the Orient   7 years ago

Maybe they can update the Greek tragedy of the Trojan women. They can make Hecuba, former queen of Troy, look like Hillary and the crowd can laugh and cheer as she's pulled off her throne and made a slave to her Greek master who's dressed like Donald Trump.

 
 
 
Bob Nelson
Professor Guide
link   Bob Nelson  replied to  1ofmany   7 years ago

Buzz, 1ofmany, 

Go for it! It's only theater. It's not real. 

 
 
 
1ofmany
Sophomore Silent
link   1ofmany  replied to  Bob Nelson   7 years ago

Go for it! It's only theater. It's not real.

It doesn't have to be real to be offensive.   

 
 
 
Buzz of the Orient
Professor Expert
link   Buzz of the Orient  replied to  Bob Nelson   7 years ago

Would the liberals applaud if Obama had been depicted as Hamlet, he of the redline erasures?

Hamlet:
Now whether it be
Bestial oblivion, or some craven scruple
Of thinking too precisely on th' event—
A thought which, quarter'd, hath but one part wisdom
And ever three parts coward—I do not know
Why yet I live to say this thing's to do,
Sith I have cause, and will, and strength, and means
To do't.

Hamlet Act 4, scene 4, 39–46

Having just encountered a Norwegian force on its way to contest "a little patch of ground" in Poland, the Prince of Denmark once again upbraids himself for being unable to act decisively. Commanded by his father's ghost to avenge his murder, Hamlet has as yet been unable to do the deed.

 

Hamlet's self-appraisals here echo earlier sentiments—that "conscience does make cowards of us all" and that "the native hue of resolution/ Is sicklied o'er with the pale cast of thought" [see TO BE, OR NOT TO BE, THAT IS THE QUESTION ]. He spoke then of the fear of death; here, he speaks of "thinking" in general, the "precise" lingering over objections, reappraisals, calculations, implications, etc., to the point where action is stifled and opportunities missed. Hamlet—who may only think he's been thinking too much—thinks that thinking is only one part wise to three parts cowardly.

(enotes)

LOL:  "One part wise to three parts cowardly".

 
 
 
Bob Nelson
Professor Guide
link   Bob Nelson    7 years ago

 
John Wilkes Booth  (left),  Edwin Booth  and  Junius Brutus Booth, Jr.  in Shakespeare's  Julius Caesar  in 1864.
 
Oh!
Was Shakespeare a member of the Lincoln assassination conspiracy?
What evil lies in the hearts of men!
 
Much ado about nothing...
 
 
 
Buzz of the Orient
Professor Expert
link   Buzz of the Orient    7 years ago


"John Wilkes Booth  (left),  Edwin Booth  and  Junius Brutus Booth, Jr.  in Shakespeare's  Julius Caesar  in 1864."

Did they make Caeser look like LIncoln? They didn't have to - they killed him anyway.

 
 
 
Bob Nelson
Professor Guide
link   Bob Nelson  replied to  Buzz of the Orient   7 years ago

Yes. They were actors. They played roles. What they did was not real

So don't take it too seriously. 

 
 
 
96WS6
Junior Quiet
link   96WS6  replied to  Bob Nelson   7 years ago

Boy I would love to see your comment if someone made this play while BO was president....somehow I think it would be quite different.

 
 
 
Bob Nelson
Professor Guide
link   Bob Nelson  replied to  96WS6   7 years ago

It would have been "Othello"...

 
 
 
Aeonpax
Freshman Silent
link   Aeonpax    7 years ago

It looks like the right wing snowflakes are offended by free speech that offends their ultra sensitive feelings about Trump, hence all the painful whining here about such an inconsequential thing. They deserve safe spaces to shield their senses from such nasty things.

 

 
 
 
Buzz of the Orient
Professor Expert
link   Buzz of the Orient  replied to  Aeonpax   7 years ago

Who gives a fuck about civilization? Seems there are lots of people who want to live in a sick society, in fact lots who strive for its decline.

 
 
 
Aeonpax
Freshman Silent
link   Aeonpax  replied to  Buzz of the Orient   7 years ago

You have my pity.

 

 
 
 
Buzz of the Orient
Professor Expert
link   Buzz of the Orient  replied to  Aeonpax   7 years ago

Somehow, Aeonpax, I don't think you would be quite so glib if someone in your neighbourhood hated you to the extent that so many hate Trump, and suggested to your neighbours that you should be terminated. With all the mental illness out there, you cannot deny that some sick bastard might take the hint.  Personification as Trump (the clothing, the hair, the pretty wife who has a Slavic accent) can only be mistaken by a person as determined as Bob to not be Trump, and the event not be a suggestion that Trump be dealt with the same way Caeser was.

 
 
 
1ofmany
Sophomore Silent
link   1ofmany  replied to  Buzz of the Orient   7 years ago

Personification as Trump (the clothing, the hair, the pretty wife who has a Slavic accent) can only be mistaken by a person as determined as Bob to not be Trump, and the event not be a suggestion that Trump be dealt with the same way Caeser was.

Bob knows full well that Caesar is Trump. But look at the video closely and you'll see that Trump is being stabbed to death by women and black men. 

 
 
 
PJ
Masters Quiet
link   PJ  replied to  1ofmany   7 years ago

WRONG. 

If you pan down about 1.5 - 2 ft you can clearly tell they are transgender men pretending to be women.    Geesh.... it's always the woman's fault huh

 
 
 
Cerenkov
Professor Silent
link   Cerenkov  replied to  Buzz of the Orient   7 years ago

Sad but true, Buzz. Election frustration has driven many folks to forget civility, courtesy, or simple patriotism. The barbarians are inside the gates.

 
 
 
Bob Nelson
Professor Guide
link   Bob Nelson  replied to  Cerenkov   7 years ago

 

Sad but true, Buzz. Election frustration has driven many folks to forget civility, courtesy, or simple patriotism. The barbarians are inside the gates.

 

Hey, everybody! Come see this!  

Cerenkov is lamenting others' lack of courtesy and civility! Can you imagine? 

Cerenkov! 

 
 
 
Cerenkov
Professor Silent
link   Cerenkov  replied to  Bob Nelson   7 years ago

Look! A trollish comment proving my point. Thanks, Bob, you never fail to live down to my expectations for you.

 
 
 
Bob Nelson
Professor Guide
link   Bob Nelson  replied to  Cerenkov   7 years ago

 

Oh, this is so-o-o-o funny! 

From now on, every time I see one of your posts, it's going to remind me of you complaining about others' courtesy. You!  

That is so-o-o-o hilarious! 

 
 
 
Cerenkov
Professor Silent
link   Cerenkov  replied to  Bob Nelson   7 years ago

Another trolling comment? Do you have anything to actually contribute? Honestly, it seems unlikely given your past performance. You prove my point over and over again.

 
 
 
Bob Nelson
Professor Guide
link   Bob Nelson  replied to  Cerenkov   7 years ago

And now you asking someone to "actually contribute"? You, who haven't made a pertinent contribution since you appeared on NT? 

Are you trying to be funny? 'Cause you're succeeding! laughing dude

 
 
 
Cerenkov
Professor Silent
link   Cerenkov  replied to  Bob Nelson   7 years ago

You are just trolling. You're not fooling anyone. I assume you eventually be banned. Again.

 
 
 
Spikegary
Junior Quiet
link   Spikegary  replied to  Aeonpax   7 years ago

The nice thing about freedom of speech is that EVERYONE is able to voice their opinion, regardless of what you think about them.  No one besides the left wing snowflakes has ever demanded safe spaces.

 
 
 
96WS6
Junior Quiet
link   96WS6  replied to  Aeonpax   7 years ago

It's OK to riot and burn a school down if that institution has the balls to invite a conservative speaker but if a play is made about murdering the standing president and you say anything about it you are overreacting.  Got it.

 
 
 
Bob Nelson
Professor Guide
link   Bob Nelson  replied to  96WS6   7 years ago

Oh, yes! I remember that incident... It was part of the Bowling Green Massacre.  good one

 
 
 
96WS6
Junior Quiet
link   96WS6  replied to  Bob Nelson   7 years ago

As if you have never heard of Berkley....Hypocrites don't like to address their own double standards so I expected nothing less.

 
 
 
Bob Nelson
Professor Guide
link   Bob Nelson  replied to  96WS6   7 years ago

No, I've never heard of Berkley. 

If you mean the University of Berkeley, then... no, I was not aware that it had burned. 

 
 
 
Cerenkov
Professor Silent
link   Cerenkov  replied to  96WS6   7 years ago

Spot on. But at least you got a spellcheck. Everybody can contribute something, no matter how inane.

 
 
 
1ofmany
Sophomore Silent
link   1ofmany    7 years ago

It's disgraceful that a theatre company would put on a play celebrating the assassination of the president and even more disgraceful that the audience would give it a standing ovation. If all the sponsors slink away, maybe the theatre company could get ISIS to pick up the tab so liberal audiences can continue to enjoy killing Trump. 

 
 
 
Bob Nelson
Professor Guide
link   Bob Nelson  replied to  1ofmany   7 years ago

Oh, c'mon, 1ofmany...

I hope you weren't taken in by the headline! You know how it is with seeds from _ix_ick! (Can't say the name... it's ok to post erroneous headlines, but it's not ok to post names of people who post erroneous headlines. CoC, you know...  crazy  )

I'm sure you didn't just read the headline , 1ofmany.

I'm absolutely sure you read the whole article... where you learned that... The play is about the assassination of a guy named Julius Caesar. That's kinda sorta why the title of the play is "Julius Caesar". Ol' Jules got bumped off a couple thousand years ago, so he never mentioned Donald... and the play was written by a guy named Will Shakespeare about four hundred years ago... so Will never heard about Donald, either.

That's why the words "Donald" and "Trump" are never heard during the play.

But hey! Let's all freak out over an erroneous headline! 

 
 
 
1ofmany
Sophomore Silent
link   1ofmany  replied to  Bob Nelson   7 years ago

. . . That's why the words "Donald" and "Trump" are never heard during the play.

The headline is irrelevant; I watched the video clip. They didn't need to mention Trump by name Bob.   They dressed Caesar like Trump and killed him to the delight of an audience that would never have clapped at the death of Caesar in the original play. 

 
 
 
Bob Nelson
Professor Guide
link   Bob Nelson  replied to  1ofmany   7 years ago

That is theater! 

 
 
 
1ofmany
Sophomore Silent
link   1ofmany  replied to  Bob Nelson   7 years ago

That is theater! 

That is transparent way of using theatre to celebrate killing Trump. 

 
 
 
96WS6
Junior Quiet
link   96WS6  replied to  1ofmany   7 years ago

That is theater! 

That is transparent way of using theatre to celebrate killing Trump.

Actually, It IS liberal "Theater"

 
 
 
magnoliaave
Sophomore Quiet
link   magnoliaave  replied to  Bob Nelson   7 years ago

I know about theatre.  If theatre is just play acting tell me, please, why were the minstrel shows disgraced and banned because white people were "black" face?  After all, its just theatre!

 
 
 
Bob Nelson
Professor Guide
link   Bob Nelson  replied to  magnoliaave   7 years ago

Because White people putting on blackface and then mocking Black artists and Black people more generally was kinda sorta racist. 

Do you really need to have something like this explained to you? 

 
 
 
magnoliaave
Sophomore Quiet
link   magnoliaave  replied to  Bob Nelson   7 years ago

Actually, it is just opinion.

 
 
 
1ofmany
Sophomore Silent
link   1ofmany  replied to  Bob Nelson   7 years ago

Because White people putting on blackface and then mocking Black artists and Black people more generally was kinda sorta racist. 

I don't think she's unclear as to why blackface in theatre is an unacceptable form of mockery but rather she's directly rebutting your statement that theatre doesn't matter because it's just theatre. 

 
 
 
A. Macarthur
Professor Guide
link   A. Macarthur  replied to  magnoliaave   7 years ago

why were the minstrel shows disgraced and banned because white people were "black" face?  After all, its just theatre!

A fair question; IMO, it's one thing to make an editorial comment through art … another to present it in a demeaning or discriminatory manner. If, in those shows, aspects of Black life and culture were being portrayed via theatrical media, why weren't black performers given the roles instead of having given them to white performers in black face?

Could the objections have been as much to demeaning portrayals of blacks, as to the black-balling of black performers obviously more suited for the parts?

 

 
 
 
1ofmany
Sophomore Silent
link   1ofmany  replied to  A. Macarthur   7 years ago

Could the objections have been as much to demeaning portrayals of blacks, as to the black-balling of black performers obviously more suited for the parts?

If you're talking about Al Jolson, then he made black music popular among white audiences when black people couldn't do it themselves because of racism. He may have paved the way for real black entertainers on stage. If you're talking about Amos and Andy, it was purely mockery of black people as entertainment which can lead to mockery in real life. So the latter may have fueled racism while the former may have done the opposite. Theater isn't always just theater if life follows art. 

 
 
 
96WS6
Junior Quiet
link   96WS6    7 years ago

I think someone needs to make an Obama assassination play.  Doesn't matter that he is no longer president I just want to watch the same liberals that made this one lose their minds over it.

 
 
 
Bob Nelson
Professor Guide
link   Bob Nelson  replied to  96WS6   7 years ago

I think someone needs to make an Obama assassination play.

Why not?

Since you folks never have any original ideas... are always just copying stuff from the left, without understanding it... ("alt-left" ...  laughing dude ) ... why not?

What's one more copy/pasted idea, more or less?

 

You do realize that "Donald" and "Trump" were never pronounced? You do realize that the guy who was assassinated was named "Julius Caesar"? 

You did read the seed, right? 

The play, a contemporary update on the original, does not refer to the president by name...

 
 
 
sixpick
Professor Quiet
link   seeder  sixpick  replied to  Bob Nelson   7 years ago

Well, the people have spoken and the supporters have dropped their support of the organization.  Maybe the right never has any original ideas, but the right has finally said they were not going to take it anymore and are using the left's original ideas and tactics that have been working pretty well for them for so long and using the left's own tactics against them for a change. 

Using satire to make fun of Trump, Obama, or anyone is one thing, but to actually use satire to kill someone is another thing.  Anyone who thinks that is just fine or "much about nothing" has really sunk to a new low.

I know the left has been wearing their keypads out trying to find something to counter this perversion of satire and if they do find something where someone is killed by such satire, I will disapprove of it as well, but good luck with finding another recent president who was killed in a satirical play other than this one.

 
 
 
Bob Nelson
Professor Guide
link   Bob Nelson  replied to  sixpick   7 years ago

... to actually use satire to kill someone... 

My goodness! 

Who is dead? Why wasn't this murder included in the article? 

Breathe deeply... you're hyperventilating... 

 
 
 
1ofmany
Sophomore Silent
link   1ofmany  replied to  sixpick   7 years ago

All it says to me is that the left can dish it out but, if circumstances were reversed, everybody knows they couldn't take it. If Caesar, dressed as Obama or Hillary were stabbed to death to the delight of a conservative audience, liberals would be screaming racism and misogyny at the top of their lungs.  

 
 
 
Bob Nelson
Professor Guide
link   Bob Nelson  replied to  1ofmany   7 years ago

... liberals would be... 

Do you realize how much time you spend attacking the left for events that have never existed and never will? So much imagination! 

Now if only you could put all that imagination in service to thinking about policy... 

 
 
 
1ofmany
Sophomore Silent
link   1ofmany  replied to  Bob Nelson   7 years ago

Do you realize how much time you spend attacking the left for events that have never existed and never will? So much imagination! 

You're hitting the keys on your keyboard as fast as I am. If you think it's a lot to do about nothing, then stop typing.

Now if only you could put all that imagination in service to thinking about policy... 

My thoughts on policy run at least as deep as yours. 

 
 
 
Bob Nelson
Professor Guide
link   Bob Nelson  replied to  1ofmany   7 years ago

My thoughts on policy run at least as deep as yours. 

I have challenged NT's conservatives to expose their policy ideas on several occasions. You didn't answer, nor any of the others. 

Your people have held all the levers of power for months, but here on NT, we still see nothing but attacks on Obama and Hillary and even Bill! And on straw-man "liberals" for stuff they never did and never will. 

 
 
 
1ofmany
Sophomore Silent
link   1ofmany  replied to  Bob Nelson   7 years ago

I have challenged NT's conservatives to expose their policy ideas on several occasions. You didn't answer, nor any of the others. 

I respond to what I find interesting so, if I didn't respond it wasn't of interest to me or I didn't see it. The other possibility is that it had red box rules and I never respond to them. 

Your people have held all the levers of power for months, but here on NT, we still see nothing but attacks on Obama and Hillary and even Bill! And on straw-man "liberals" for stuff they never did and never will. 

I have no people. I speak for nobody but myself and accept responsibility only for what I say. 

 
 
 
1ofmany
Sophomore Silent
link   1ofmany  replied to  Bob Nelson   7 years ago

You do realize that "Donald" and "Trump" were never pronounced? You do realize that the guy who was assassinated was named "Julius Caesar

I assume that you do realize that Caesar didn't dress like Donald Trump. And the issue is whether the play is offensive by indirectly celebrating the assassination of Trump, not whether the play is real.  

 
 
 
Bob Nelson
Professor Guide
link   Bob Nelson  replied to  1ofmany   7 years ago

And the issue is whether the play is offensive... 

Clearly it is offensive to you... but the audience applauded, so equally clearly it wasn't offensive to them. 

Would you ban all theater that Trump Faithful find offensive? 

How offensive must it be to be banned? Should SNL be banned? 

What's the limit? 

It's theater, for pity's sake! 

 
 
 
1ofmany
Sophomore Silent
link   1ofmany  replied to  Bob Nelson   7 years ago

Clearly it is offensive to you... but the audience applauded, so equally clearly it wasn't offensive to them. 

Would you ban all theater that Trump Faithful find offensive? 

I don't know how you jumped to banning but all I said is that it's offensive. People are free to express themselves in theatre as they see fit and I'm equally free to say what I think about it. 

 
 
 
Bob Nelson
Professor Guide
link   Bob Nelson  replied to  1ofmany   7 years ago

So... You agree that it's ok to stage a play that you find offensive. 

Then... What's all this fuss? 

 
 
 
1ofmany
Sophomore Silent
link   1ofmany  replied to  Bob Nelson   7 years ago

So... You agree that it's ok to stage a play that you find offensive. 

Then... What's all this fuss? 

People are speaking their mind on something that they believe warrants comment. The only fuss seems to be the one you're kicking up because you think people should be talking about something else. 

 
 
 
Bob Nelson
Professor Guide
link   Bob Nelson  replied to  1ofmany   7 years ago

 you think people should be talking about something else. 

I'd be more impressed by your mind-reader powers, if you weren't completely wrong. 

I have no problem with any "talking" about whatever they want. I was remarking the vociferous outrage provoked by an erroneous headline. 

As I said, Much ado about nothing. 

 
 
 
96WS6
Junior Quiet
link   96WS6  replied to  Bob Nelson   7 years ago

"You do realize that "Donald" and "Trump" were never pronounced? You do realize that the guy who was assassinated was named "Julius Caesar"? 

You did read the seed, right? "

Bob,  Did YOU realize they didn't have to?  By your logic I could make a "play" in which someone is made to look like BO call him "Ceaser" and hang him to death from a tree and you would be OK with it right?

 
 
 
1ofmany
Sophomore Silent
link   1ofmany  replied to  96WS6   7 years ago

Bob,  Did YOU realize they didn't have to?  By your logic I could make a "play" in which someone is made to look like BO call him "Ceaser" and hang him to death from a tree and you would be OK with it right?

As long as the character isn't referred to as anyone but Caesar, then Bob doesn't think the play could possibly be about anyone else. . . . even if the character wears a Trump or Obama mask. 

 
 
 
96WS6
Junior Quiet
link   96WS6  replied to  1ofmany   7 years ago

Truth be told I think Bob is partizan enough to agree with things he knows are wrong...enough said.

 
 
 
Bob Nelson
Professor Guide
link   Bob Nelson  replied to  1ofmany   7 years ago

Bob doesn't think... 

How about you letting me say what I think? 

 
 
 
Bob Nelson
Professor Guide
link   Bob Nelson  replied to  96WS6   7 years ago

 By your logic I could make a "play" in which someone is made to look like BO call him "Ceaser" and hang him to death from a tree and you would be OK with it right?

Considering the number of Black men who have been hung from trees, and the number of Presidents who have been knifed in the Senate... I'd say the degree of bad taste is hardly the same... But yes, if someone wants to produce such a play, they definitely have the right. 

 
 
 
A. Macarthur
Professor Guide
link   A. Macarthur    7 years ago

Flagged and other comments regarding such a play are, potentially, if not in reality, a violation or near-violation of the CoC and potentially problematic to the site; I'll defer to Perrie on this, but references to assassinations can generate potential legal issues.

IMO, for that reason alone, unless comments are clearly with regard to the propriety or impropriety OF THE PLAY AND ITS CONCEPT … it's shaky ground.

And even as a satire, I have a problem with any such play/concept particularly with regard to any living POTUS, current or past; there are too many lunatics out there.

 
 
 
Perrie Halpern R.A.
Professor Principal
link   Perrie Halpern R.A.  replied to  A. Macarthur   7 years ago

In response to A Mac's comment:

This site does not endorse the assassination of a current or past president. 

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
link   JohnRussell    7 years ago

I am not a fan of portraying a similar figure to the current president as a victim of violence.

However, I think there is something that is largely overlooked in this discussion.

The Trump like figure is not there just to be killed. That is a small part of a play that has existed intact for hundreds of years. The Trump like figure is Julius Caesar.

 

 
 
 
sixpick
Professor Quiet
link   seeder  sixpick  replied to  JohnRussell   7 years ago

John, maybe you should see the whole play and realize even though the assassination is a small part, there are lots of other parts that depict Donald Trump in the play.

 
 
 
Bob Nelson
Professor Guide
link   Bob Nelson    7 years ago

My, my, my... 

Such a brouhaha! 

A false headline has so many people raging and ravening... 

Of course, reality is unimportant, as always. When the headline screams, the rabid pack must obey... 

 
 
 
Dean Moriarty
Professor Quiet
link   Dean Moriarty  replied to  Bob Nelson   7 years ago

Is NPR also spending our tax money on fake news?

LUNDEN: It is very explicit. The moment Julius Caesar walks on stage, as you've mentioned, you see this blond comb-over, this long, red tie. And his wife, Calpurnia, is elegantly dressed. And the moment she speaks, there's a Slavic accent. And the audience actually laughs initially. They staged it to make it very clear that this Caesar is supposed to be President Trump.

 
 
 
1ofmany
Sophomore Silent
link   1ofmany  replied to  Dean Moriarty   7 years ago

The intent is obvious. Bob's just pulling your chain. 

 
 
 
Bob Nelson
Professor Guide
link   Bob Nelson  replied to  1ofmany   7 years ago

Bob's just pulling your chain. 

Not at all. I'm just insisting that this is theater

Do you know the play? Despite its title, Caesar isn't the main character. Brutus is. The topic is the web of conflicting motives that ultimately lead him to kill the man who adopted him. 

I don't know why the director chose to do the Trump thing... but if he wanted to generate buzz... he certainly succeeded. 

 
 
 
1ofmany
Sophomore Silent
link   1ofmany  replied to  Bob Nelson   7 years ago

Do you know the play? Despite its title, Caesar isn't the main character. Brutus is. The topic is the web of conflicting motives that ultimately lead him to kill the man who adopted him. 

I know the play and the history behind it. 

I don't know why the director chose to do the Trump thing... 

Because the play is actually about killing Trump. 

 
 
 
Buzz of the Orient
Professor Expert
link   Buzz of the Orient  replied to  Bob Nelson   7 years ago

"...but if he wanted to generate buzz..."

Well, I COULD use a little REgeneration."

 
 
 
Bob Nelson
Professor Guide
link   Bob Nelson  replied to  Dean Moriarty   7 years ago

It's theater... 

 
 
 
Cerenkov
Professor Silent
link   Cerenkov  replied to  Bob Nelson   7 years ago

It's trolling...

 
 
 
Fermit The Krog
Freshman Silent
link   Fermit The Krog  replied to  Cerenkov   7 years ago

They know what this is but they don't care because they are hypocrites of with no morals.

 
 
 
sixpick
Professor Quiet
link   seeder  sixpick  replied to  Bob Nelson   7 years ago

My, my, my... 

Such a brouhaha! 

A false headline has so many people raging and ravening... 

Of course, reality is unimportant, as always. When the headline screams, the rabid pack must obey... 

Maybe you should do some more research on the intentions of this play, Bob.

 
 
 
Bob Nelson
Professor Guide
link   Bob Nelson  replied to  sixpick   7 years ago

... on the intentions... 

Where do I find "intentions"? (I don't just make stuff up.) 

Usually, a play's director has several objectives. He wants to draw a crowd. He wants to please that crowd... and the professional critics. He wants to be remarked. He wants people to think about the play. 

 
 
 
Buzz of the Orient
Professor Expert
link   Buzz of the Orient  replied to  Bob Nelson   7 years ago

But he'd be pretty stupid to do something that loses his sponsors, unless to him the "art" is more important to him than being able to put food on his table.

 
 
 
1ofmany
Sophomore Silent
link   1ofmany    7 years ago

What would liberals say if we make Caesar gay and stab him to death to a standing ovation from the audience? 

 
 
 
Bob Nelson
Professor Guide
link   Bob Nelson  replied to  1ofmany   7 years ago

I would say, "It's theater. Perhaps in bad taste... but it is fiction, so it would be silly to get excited." 

 
 
 
Dowser
Sophomore Quiet
link   Dowser    7 years ago

Personally, or IMHO, I don't think anyone should depict any president with his head cut off, assassinated, stabbed, have harm come to him, depicted as Satan, etc.  I've lived through one assassination and don't want to live through that again.

Calling something "Political satire" does not give one the right to incite violence.  But that's me.

Also, this may be a work of fiction, and we all know that, but a lot of people don't.  There are a lot of people out there who have never been exposed to the original Shakespeare's play, and couldn't recognize it, if it bit them on the ankle.  

Oh, and whatever is said or done, leave Barron out of it.

 
 
 
Buzz of the Orient
Professor Expert
link   Buzz of the Orient  replied to  Dowser   7 years ago

Thank you - a "moderate and balanced" view of the issue.

 
 
 
Aeonpax
Freshman Silent
link   Aeonpax  replied to  Dowser   7 years ago

What kind of people get incited to commit violence by watching satire? Morons? Low Lives?  The mentally unbalanced?

 
 
 
Old Hermit
Sophomore Silent
link   Old Hermit  replied to  Aeonpax   7 years ago

What kind of people get incited to commit violence by watching satire? Morons? Low Lives?  The mentally unbalanced?

 

Trumpsters are such whiny little britches! Thank Zeus they only represent about a third of the Country and will soon fade away.

 

When Caesar looked like Obama no one started pulling out their hair or wetting their undies and they dam sure didn't worry that a 400 year old play might drive some nut into a killing rage.

 

Uproar over Trump-themed 'Julius Caesar,' but none for Obama version at Guthrie 5 years ago

 

 

 

Stupid faux outrage.

 
 
 
Dowser
Sophomore Quiet
link   Dowser  replied to  Aeonpax   7 years ago

To me, it is the mentally unbalanced, unhinged, portion of the population that is unable to overcome their own feelings of anger and direct their hate towards a person, (or persons). 

Haven't we all fantasized about thwocking someone?  I remember when my ex-husband told me he just didn't love me any more and didn't want to be with me.  I fantasized that I shot him with a bow and arrow, a blunderbuss, a cannon, etc.  Did I act upon it?  no.  But it made me feel better...

In some people, that line between madness/fantasy and normal anger is blurred.

These times we're living in are unstable, we're all worried about what will happen to us, etc.  Stabilize the government and then, perhaps those who are nuts will calm down.

 
 
 
sixpick
Professor Quiet
link   seeder  sixpick    7 years ago

Thankful we still have "Freedom of Speech" to produce a despicable play and still be allowed to criticize it.

 
 
 
Bob Nelson
Professor Guide
link   Bob Nelson  replied to  sixpick   7 years ago

     applause      applause      applause

 
 
 
sixpick
Professor Quiet
link   seeder  sixpick  replied to  Bob Nelson   7 years ago

I can understand your approval Bob, but the freedom of speech also carries some responsibility, especially from those with a big enough platform to influence so many.  We would hope they were the sort of people who would want the best for this country and not abuse that freedom as the people responsible for this play have done, using their freedom of speech to depict the assassination of a President who many not only dislike, but actually hate more than anything they've ever hated before in their lives.

 
 
 
Bob Nelson
Professor Guide
link   Bob Nelson  replied to  sixpick   7 years ago

Now you seem to be saying, "freedom of speech as long as the words are agreeable to me"... 

That cannot work. 

I am vehemently opposed to displaying the Confederate flag, which I consider a symbol of the worst behavior America has known. I would not ban that flag, though. It is better to allow reprehensible speech because it identifies the speaker, proudly honoring the murderous oppression of millions. 

As for "Trump is Caesar", my own reaction is, "That's nonsense. Caesar was a brilliant man: general and author. Trump is an idiot." On a literary level, the pairing doesn't work: the drama in the play is Brutus's conflicts. Who is Trump's Brutus? The idea of Jarod Kushner killing his father (in law) is silly, so the play just does not fit the WH. Conclusion: the director was pandering, even at the cost of denaturing the play. 

Isn't it better to examine calmly, than to rage? 

 
 
 
A. Macarthur
Professor Guide
link   A. Macarthur    7 years ago

Here's my issue (beyond potential legal repercussions for the site).

The concept of free speech and the example of "Shouting 'fire' in a crowded theater," can be applied to a play that, even metaphorically, implicitly or explicitly refers to assassinating a sitting POTUS or living, past POTUS. 

Whether with or without intent to INCITE, artistic expression is always regarded with respect to the time in which it is being viewed, or, to the time it was created if/when viewed retrospectively.

We live in an incendiary, sometimes insane era; IMO, "Freedom of Expression" carries with it, A BURDEN OF RESPONSIBILITY … and to ignore, or, to be oblivious of that, or, to incite with intent through art in a volatile environment, is potentially abusive of that freedom.

I do not recall any of our conservative members herein ever condemning the portrayals of the Obamas as "apes" when it was being done; such an expression implying that a Black President and his family were to be regarded as other than human, only served to incite, and reinforce for the lunatic, bigot-fringe, that it might be "O.K." to denigrate or even take violent action against something "less-than-human" …

With freedom of expression comes responsibility.

That goes for Mr. Trump's detractors, supporters … AND FOR MR. TRUMP HIMSELF!

 

 
 
 
Cerenkov
Professor Silent
link   Cerenkov  replied to  A. Macarthur   7 years ago

"I do not recall any of our conservative members herein ever condemning the portrayals of the Obamas as "apes"..."

Your failure to recollect does not shape reality.

 
 
 
A. Macarthur
Professor Guide
link   A. Macarthur  replied to  Cerenkov   7 years ago

"I do not recall any of our conservative members herein ever condemning the portrayals of the Obamas as "apes"..."

Your failure to recollect does not shape reality.

Even less shapely is your alluding to anything that might actually prove me wrong … 

… WITHOUT PROVIDING ANYTHING TO PROVE ME WRONG.

Must you always come loaded for bear …

… only to shoot yourself in the foot by being annoying but not enlightening?

I said, "I do not recall." If you can jog my memory, by all means. But following me around in order to slam any/everything I post … is annoying.

 
 
 
Bob Nelson
Professor Guide
link   Bob Nelson  replied to  A. Macarthur   7 years ago

Elsewhere , this same Cerenkov is complaining about others' lack of courtesy and civility. 

How funny is that??   laughing dude

 
 
 
Cerenkov
Professor Silent
link   Cerenkov  replied to  Bob Nelson   7 years ago

An obviously false analogy, and a trollish comment.

 
 
 
Cerenkov
Professor Silent
link   Cerenkov  replied to  A. Macarthur   7 years ago

You made an inflammatory comment that implied something that was not true. I simply pointed it out. If you think I am going to sift through years of comments to provide evidence, just so you can move the goalposts again, you are sadly mistaken.

If you don't want to receive snarky replies, you shouldn't make snarky comments.

For the record, I have previously stated that depicting the POTUS or their family as monkeys is disrespectful. However, it's not on the same level as depicting their brutal murder. I thought that would be obvious.

 
 
 
A. Macarthur
Professor Guide
link   A. Macarthur  replied to  Cerenkov   7 years ago

You made an inflammatory comment that implied something that was not true. I simply pointed it out. If you think I am going to sift through years of comments to provide evidence, just so you can move the goalposts again, you are sadly mistaken.

I made a statement indicating that I could not recall a particular line of commentary, one consistent with a line of commentary in this thread but absent in the past under similar circumstances; rather than helping me to recollect, or, to show my memory had failed, you came on with your characteristic, dismissive, fact-void snark.

If you don't want to receive snarky replies, you shouldn't make snarky comments.

Translation: You cannot provide a specific example to either contradict nor to corroborate my implied question; BUT YOU NEVER FAIL TO BE INSULTING!

For the record, I have previously stated that depicting the POTUS or their family as monkeys is disrespectful. However, it's not on the same level as depicting their brutal murder. I thought that would be obvious.

I'll accept that in part; but specifically, any portrayal of a public official that is so egregious as to possibly, in-and-of-itself, incite violence or any other adverse action against that official, albeit "constitutional," should be deemed potentially dangerous.

 

 
 
 
Buzz of the Orient
Professor Expert
link   Buzz of the Orient  replied to  A. Macarthur   7 years ago

I think there is a difference between a show of disrespect and an incitement to assassinate. Comparing blacks to monkeys and apes has been displayed in entertainment before and may have caused disrespect but not been a suggestion to murder.  In the movie "Remember the Titans" Dnezel Washington plays a football coach at the time of desegragation and is called by an opposing coach a "monkey".  When Washington's team beats the other coach's team Washington throws a banana at the opposing coach.  Point maide, but no suggestion to murder. There are incendiary times and it doesn't take much to encourage an unbalanced person (and you cannot deny that there are some out there) to try to assassinate an unpopular president.

 
 
 
Bob Nelson
Professor Guide
link   Bob Nelson  replied to  Buzz of the Orient   7 years ago

... incitement... 

Where? 

 
 
 
Buzz of the Orient
Professor Expert
link   Buzz of the Orient  replied to  Bob Nelson   7 years ago

By providing an example, by displaying an act that would most likely influence a mentally ill person to imitate. There is more to it than just an example, because we see such "examples" every day in the movies, even in real life, but taking the whole context into consideration, the fact that Trump is so despised by so many, gives an incentive to some madman who would like to have his 15 minutes of fame.

Oh, why am I wasting my time with this? None are so blind as those who refuse to see.

 
 
 
sixpick
Professor Quiet
link   seeder  sixpick  replied to  A. Macarthur   7 years ago

We live in an incendiary, sometimes insane era; IMO, "Freedom of Expression" carries with it, A BURDEN OF RESPONSIBILITY … and to ignore, or, to be oblivious of that, or, to incite with intent through art in a volatile environment, is potentially abusive of that freedom.

I do not recall any of our conservative members herein ever condemning the portrayals of the Obamas as "apes" when it was being done; such an expression implying that a Black President and his family were to be regarded as other than human, only served to incite, and reinforce for the lunatic, bigot-fringe, that it might be "O.K." to denigrate or even take violent action against something "less-than-human" …

With freedom of expression comes responsibility.

I appreciate the first and last paragraphs Amac, but the middle one is out of place on this article because Obama as a monkey does not have a monopoly in that situation.

I know you understand as you stated in the first and last paragraphs, although this is an expression of a freedom we have, it really sucks, you know.

And by the way....

http://cdn.smosh.com/sites/default/files/ftpuploads/bloguploads/1113/celeb-animals-bush-monkey.jpg http://www.obamaconspiracy.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/11/image_thumb24.png

http://www.wnd.com/files/2014/03/george-w-bush-monkey-photo.jpg http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-B0XageYi08M/TxHgysnYMtI/AAAAAAAAANg/qS6BDA7lS1s/s1600/monkeybush1.jpg

I could put these up all day, but here is one you may like...

http://cf.mp-cdn.net/0c/a8/62e59c7ab4c30bf5f562f71d6100-whos-the-real-chimp-bush-yes-or-obama-no.jpg

My point and your initial and last point is thankful we have freedom of speech, but don't you just hate it when our freedom of speech is used in such despicable ways?  I understand why they have done this and where it comes from.

 
 
 
Bob Nelson
Professor Guide
link   Bob Nelson    7 years ago

"Incitement" is a crime. A form of accessory before the fact.

Are you saying the members of this troop should be arrested?

 
 
 
Buzz of the Orient
Professor Expert
link   Buzz of the Orient  replied to  Bob Nelson   7 years ago

Incite (dictionary.com)

verb (used with object), incited, inciting.
1.
to stir, encourage, or urge on; stimulate or prompt to action:
[e.g.] to incite a crowd to riot.
 
The definition does not refer to intention. I think one must take into consideration the whole of the context in order to determine whether or not the play was inciteful. The hatred of Trump is part of that context. As well, one must consider the mental stability of a person who is apt to be incited. IMO the play provided a scenario that was capable of encouraging a mentally unstable person to commit an attempt to assassinate.  However that is my opinion, and I do not expect that everyone would agree with that. If nothing else, the play was obviously considered distasteful enough to cause Delta and BofA to withdraw their support of it, and who knows what other sponsors may follow suit.
 
Hinkley attempted to assassinate Reagan then spent most of his life in a mental hospital. For some reason that makes me think he must have been determined as mentally unstable.
 
Chapman, who shot John Lennon, was determined to be psychotic by a battery of psychiatrists.
 
Both of them would surely have been provoked by who knows what to carry out their crime, some reason that a normal person would not act upon.
 
So in my opinion, the play is capable of prompting a mentally unstable person to commit the crime.
 
 
 
Buzz of the Orient
Professor Expert
link   Buzz of the Orient  replied to  Bob Nelson   7 years ago

To be considered a crime there would have to be an element of mens rea (intention) and I doubt that could ever be established in this circumstance.

 
 
 
Bob Nelson
Professor Guide
link   Bob Nelson    7 years ago

OK... I'm dropping this now.

I think that using an over the top expression like "incite to assassinate" is really not a good way to encourage popular expression to calm down.

 
 

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