'It Stuns Me': Kelly Blasts Congresswoman for Listening to 'Sacred' Call Between Trump and Widow
White House Chief of Staff Gen. John Kelly criticized Rep. Frederica Wilson (D-Fla.) for politicizing the "sacred call" between a president and the next of kin to a soldier killed in action.
"In his way, he tried to express his opinion," Kelly said of Trump's phone call to the widow of a Green Beret killed in action in Niger.
Read Full Article
"[Green Beret La David Johnson] was a brave man, a fallen hero. He knew what he was getting himself into when he enlisted. He was exactly where he wanted to be with exactly the people he wanted to be with," Kelly said, characterizing Trump's message.
Kelly said he was "stunned" that a "member of Congress would listen in to that conversation." Wilson then ripped Trump for allegedly being insensitive toward Johnson's family.
She relayed that Trump told Myeshia Johnson that her husband “knew what he signed up for … but when it happens, it hurts anyway.” President Trump later disputed her account.
Kelly said the political attack by Rep. Wilson shocked him.
"I just thought the selfless devotion that brings men and women to die on the battlefield, I just thought it might be sacred," he said.
He said Wilson's behavior upset him so much as a man who also lost his son to war, that he went to Arlington National Cemetery in Virginia to "walk among the stones" of fallen heroes - "some of whom I put there."
Kelly became emotional when he recounted to the White House press corps what he was told by his Marine casualty officer Gen. Joseph Dunford after Kelly's son was killed in an explosion in Afghanistan.
"He said, he was doing exactly what he wanted to do when he was killed," Kelly recalled, adding that is the sentiment Trump was trying to convey to the grieving family members.
Kelly also recounted how Wilson previously acted selfishly during another memorial to fallen heroes.
He was present in 2015 when the FBI dedicated its Miami-Dade, Fla. field office to two agents killed in a firefight with drug traffickers.
After some heartfelt speeches, Wilson took the stage and described how she secured the funding for the building.
"I was stunned that she had done that," he said. "Even for someone that is that empty of a barrel."
Kelly previously used the "empty barrels" phrase when South Side Chicago Rep. Luis Gutierrez (D-Ill.) claimed "he's not a general." http://insider.foxnews.com/2017/10/19/john-kelly-responds-niger-soldier-killed-and-donald-trump-sacred-phone-call
“White House Chief of Staff John Kelly said Thursday he was “stunned” and “broken-hearted” after a condolence call President Trump made to the widow of a slain soldier turned into a public and political spectacle pitting the administration against a Democratic lawmaker.
In a rare and emotional moment from the White House briefing room podium, Kelly condemned Rep. Frederica Wilson, D-Fla., for listening to that phone call and then criticizing the president's tone in the press.
“I was stunned when I came to work yesterday morning and broken-hearted, at what I saw a member of Congress doing -- a member of Congress who listened in on a phone call from the president" to the widow, Kelly told reporters.
“It stuns me that a member of Congress would have listened in on that conversation, absolutely stuns me. … I thought at least that was sacred,” he said, blasting what he called Wilson's "selfish behavior."
Kelly, whose son Second Lt. Robert Kelly was killed in battle in Afghanistan in 2010, said he was so shocked by the escalation of events that he went to Arlington National Cemetery to take a walk.
The Trump call in question was made to the widow of Army Sgt. La David Johnson, one of four Americans killed in an ambush in Niger on Oct. 4.
Wilson within hours went to the press to criticize Trump for allegedly saying during that phone call that "he knew what he signed up for," claiming the remarks were insensitive.
Trump denied it, while Wilson stood by her account.
Kelly on Thursday seemed to back up part of Wilson's account, but sought to put the president's words in the proper context -- while blasting Wilson for listening to the conversation at all.
Kelly said Trump was trying to say something akin to what Gen. Joseph Dunford, now chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, told him when his own son died: That "he was doing exactly what he wanted to do … he knew what he was getting into."
Soon after Kelly's remarks, Wilson responded.”
So a congresswoman who was with the parent giving her condolences to one of her constituents when the call came in didn't stop the gold star mother from putting the President on speaker phone? Oh no! Should she have jumped out of the car? She respectfully stayed silent and listened to the call which the mother found offensive and Kelly has merely claimed Trump was "trying to convey" a heartfelt message to the grieving mother. ""In his way, he tried to express his opinion,". That doesn't sound like he's refuting the mothers account that Trump was insensitive, but more apologizing for Trump who did his best like an un-athletic child playing tee-ball who failed to hit the stationary ball. "Well, he tried... Good job Donny, now go run to first base anyway.".
The mother had every right to share this conversation, no one told her before hand a conversation with the President was supposed to be "sacred". Her son was sacred, her sons service was sacred, a condolence call should have been expected but took the media questioning the President about it for him to follow through with them. And instead of simply saying he hadn't called yet he had to disparage former Presidents making baseless claims to bolster his own ego claiming he's some how better than those who came before. It's proof of how truly small he is that he has to demean and insult others to make himself look better.
Just another stunt by the left to bash Trump. We have no way to know exactly what was, or was not, said.
True but, considering Trump and, his administrations track record for lying, I think I'd believe the Congresswoman over them any day of the year.
it was the soldier's wife talking to Trump and his Aunt raised him. The wife has not made any comment on it yet. Just the sleazy congresswoman yapping her jaws about a private conversation.
where did you get that his mother was talking to Trump?
I apologize for the error, you are correct, it was the widow, but that fact makes zero difference in regards to my comment.
Yeah, maybe. I'm not saying she absolutely should have, but "no, this should remain a private moment between you and the president" would have been a perfectly reasonable thing to say. What's clear is that this piece of shit congresswoman had a political agenda when she was listening. So don't pretend she was doing anything virtuous.
She grossly mischaracterized Trump's words and his intentions and she did it in a disgusting attempt to score political points. The words that this ignorant congresswoman found so offensive were the precise sentiment that Kelly recommended Trump try to convey. Maybe you should call up General Kelly and tell him how ignorant he is on the topic, huh?
Actually presidents don't call the families of every single service member who dies, so there is no basis for saying the call should have been expected.
The congresswoman who listened in happens to be the same woman who famously said:
“ He doesn’t realize he is on the brink of impeachment. And people will begin to call for him to be impeached, ” she said. “Tomorrow, the Democrats will be signing a discharge petition to make sure that we have an independent investigation because this has to stop.”
Wilson went on to say she is “convinced that he did obstructed justice.”
She isn't just some objective observer. It really strains credulity for an intelligent person to not believe the President made that call to offer sympathetic support to the widow of a fallen soldier.
The congresswoman was a family FRIEND and was asked to go with them to meet her husbands body. As for misconstruing Trumps words, we have plenty of reference to figure out what was said. There is really no past compassion or empathy coming from him, he just doesn't have them. I doubt he meant to insult anybody, but given his past words and actions, its pretty clear he is not able to pull them off. And you can try to deny it til your last breath and it won't change what we already know about him.
As for Kelly decrying the politics, I agree. Too bad his boss is the one who brought them into this in the first place when he started going off of Obama. And to all of you angry the congresswoman was in the car, its none of your bloody business who the family brings to such an emotional time. She may be a little strident in her delivery (which you all supposedly like coming from 45), but she heard the call and gave the wife's reaction.
Can somebody explain why you think its fine for Trump to be an asshole but get the vapors when somebody else takes a turn?
The Racist Crackpot Frederica also famously lied about George Zimmerman:
"Trayvon was hunted down like a rabid dog"---- NO
"He was shot in the street"---- NOPE
"He was Racially Profiled"---- WRONG AGAIN
Now the old bag is doing a little moonwalking.....
"I didn't hear the whole conversation, but I definitely heard that part "
So General Kelly was lying also??
To Rex Block...But yet you believe the crap from FUX channel that X cut and pasted. Double standarded much in your life?
Assholes.... It takes one to know one, comes to mind by way of explaining the loyalty to the Tangerine One.
The widow CHOSE to share the moment with the congresswoman who was in the car and was a close friend of the family.
Now the congresswoman is being beat down for repeating what she heard because the distraught widow included her in the conversation. (?) SMH
Some friend.
Instead of the congresswoman comforting her "friend" in a time of unimaginable grief, she decides to turn the phone call into a Trump bash. Thankful I don't have friends like that.
What is sacred is not using the death of a soldier for political gain. That is what the dingbat dem did. Had Obama said the same words she would have said nothing. The fruitcake (D) heard what she wanted to hear through her filter of Trump hate.
Kelly's speech was a powerful putdown of the Maxine Waters wannabe nutcase woman.
Obama didn't call Kelly when Kelly's son was killed in Trashcanistan and Trump should have not called either.
Further, it seems she played politics on the building dedicated to the fallen FBI agents also. Seems she has a track record of being on the wrong side when it comes to good, decent people.
General Kelly was sitting beside the president. I believe Kelly over a dingbat congresswoman who is all hat and no cattle expressing her Trump hate.
So now Kelly is an asshole for defending the president?
Special Prosecutor, FBI, Even Eric"MyPeople" Holders DOJ say you are wrong.
NOT GUILTY.
Wanna go for "Hands Up- Don't Shoot" ???
Were you there? NO! But his girlfriend was! She testified under oath just what Trayvon did and said while on the phone with him during this incident! Proving that it was Trayvon who was the racist!
It's not about the phone call nor the Congresswoman … that's a smoke screen …
Wait until the CHAD/EXXON/PASSPORT PAPER pieces hit the fan …
MAYBE he didn't call but, there is this,
Pure supposition on your part.
The tag for this seed is Fredericka Wilson Scum - Shouldn't that be Donald Rump Scum?
Trump doesn't need to be "bashed by the left" considering all you have to do is listen to what he is saying and, then look for the facts but, of course you won't do that, facts hurt your narrative of the world.
The BIG LIE??? I bet he doesnt want to go there...Maybe the NFL should pay attention to FACTS!!! If North Korea wants to bomb us then the Military should take a knee and let the NFL take over...same goes for ISIS!
Projecting Trumps needs on the Congress woman won't work.
Why? She is a family friend, if the president called one of your friends would you feel you needed to inform him that you could hear what he was saying or, would you simply listen as a sign of respect?
Yet, it is the president and, his administration that continues to politicize this, a simple phone call from the president made to the widow now, to apologize for any mistaken slight that was perceived would have ended this whole thing but, no, Trump has to make it about himself and, turn it into something that is political and, meant to hurt him.
And that is pure supposition on your part; there are questions that need to be answered under oath in a public hearing regarding each item I noted.
And Mr. Trump is the one that brought this into the limelight???? HUH??????
SMH
No pat - she is being called out for doing two things exactly as you are doing now :
1) Deliberately misconstruing real world facts to fit a square peg (real world facts) into a round hole (your agenda).
2) Using the death of an American soldier to advance your political perspective.
As Gen. Kelly described it - "An empty barrel makes the most noise", this POS liberal congresswoman has made her entire career about herself - politicized the deaths of American heroes to further her own ambitions.....kind of like Maxine Waters, Al Sharpton, Jesse Jackson - all very, very special pieces of excrement because they use the tragedies to their constituents, community members AND the race card to add to their own bank accounts and fame.
Sadly, liberals seem to love them for it.
BTW - that BS about this congresswoman being "a good friend of the family" - another BS liberal attempt to humanize an inhuman act, is easily refuted when it becomes known that she misspelled the name of her "good friend" in subsequent tweets.
Liberals just LUUUUUUUV them some false narratives, lies and BS. Hypocrisy describes the liberal, just as dishonesty defines the liberal.
Sounds just like Donald Rump! and all of his supporters
Trump doesn't need to be bashed by the left.
The why are the left so busy doing it?
So he got to attend a meal with hundreds of others and that means he's special and didn't need a phone call? And he got to sit at Michelle's table? Do you know what the acronym BFD means?
And Salon...................that is FOX times 4 for bias in case you didn't notice the stretch......headline was a "rope 'em in" moment I must admit. And I am sure MANY bit on it.
And BTW (that's an acronym for by the way) did he call him? Nope. Mr. Trump was right. Was the "breakfast" timely? Well I guess if you can wait six months it was.
SMH
Sounds EXACTLY like a conspiracy theory or 4 or 7
Another one liner. They say one needs to know their limits. Seems that you have found yours.
So, in your mind, if it looks like a duck, cackles like a sheep and tastes like a cow - it's a chicken???
I see the way your logic progresses - Comment removed for skirting the CoC [ph]
Pat - what's your source that sez Wilson was a close friend of the family?
What's your source that sez they were family "Friends"?
BBBBRRRRUUUUUHHHHHAAAAAAHHHHHAAAAAAAA.
Now, make sure you eat your cornflakes and drink your chocolate milk and everything will get better.
Really - I mean REALLY. After all the news stories, court cases, multiple witnesses - you're still using the Day Two accusations?????
False narratives, lies, misconstrued facts - take all those things away from liberal goobers and the room gets pretty quiet.
Only the goobers would suggest there's nothing hinky about the congresswoman that just happens to be there for the call, the same congresswoman that has historically politicized the deaths of other American to farther her own agenda, that has repeatedly attacked the President - nope, nothing hinky about that.....or the fact that her remembrance of the call doesn't match White House records, General Kelly's remembrance - or the experiences from three other families at the same time. Nope....nothing hinky about that.....
Nope - the goobers notice nothing........Probably because the liberal threasholf for lies, BS and inhuman behavior is much higher than for the rest of us.......as they noticed nothing hinky about the Klinton e-mails being destryed, Obama wire taps of political opponents, Obama funding the Iranian nuke program - just as they ignore new evidence from investigations showing the Obama administration a$$ deep in collusion with Russia to give them US held uranium mines.
Nope.....nothing hinky about that.
And none of it matters. This is only an issue because of the sore loser left. Anything to attack Trump. Obama would get a pass saying the same thing.
Good point. This is a perfect example of "liberal debate 101" - where intellectual refutation and logical reasoning have been replaced with ad hominem, hyperbole - personal insults.
But - to be fair - the liberals HAVE no intellectual arguments to be made, the facts are NOT on their side, so when they have no talent on the bench so to speak, when childish taunting is their only means of getting attention you have to expect liberal tantrums.
Do you even pay modest attention to the news - or do you simply dream up whatever facts support your ludicrous fantasies and assume that those were the facts?
Every thing you said - all three points - have been disproven, debunked - shown to be false narrative invented to support the unsupportable - just like "Hands up........" was disproven by eye witnesses.
The danger in repeating known lies is obvious - so this becomes the new question - and the only one on the table - "Why do you insist on pushing a known false narrative?"
To me, they're both idiots.....and not worthy of being mentioned in the same sentence with this family.
Nothing, NOTHING is more important in this story than the Johnson family's sacrifice in the service of this country. I personally know 2 Gold Star families. Like you, we were fortunate enough to manintain Blue Star status,.......but I've witnessed the searing pain of a family learning they have become a Gold Star family. Nothing any politician says makes a damn bit of difference.
Comment removed for skirting the CoC [ph]
My comments were describing litany of one line/zero-content insults in lieu of an intellectual argument or factual refutations foisted on us by a repeat offender - sorry if it hurt your feelings too.....well, no, not really sorry about that, because this comment was not addressing you - if you recognize your own behavior in the description I won't argue with your self-perceptions.
If ya don't want to feel like you're part of the problem then you have the power to change it.
It has been suggested by the liberals that Wilson was a close friend - and refuted because Wilson didn't know how to spell the name of her "close friend" - as evidenced by Wilson's tweets.
In point of fact - and evidenced through years of Wilson's inhuman behavior - Wilson would seem to be an even closer relative of the treasures one could find buried in the litter box of my cat. Congresswomen Wilson is an undeniably genuine POS.
That comment of his boggles my mind.
Why should Pres. Trump call this lady, again? Her friend, the Congresswoman should call her and apologize.
If you are commenting on this I'd think you'd know. Why don't you try to see if you can find that confirmation for yourself? Otherwise, how many sources do you need?
"Nothing, NOTHING is more important in this story than the Johnson family's sacrifice in the service of this country. I personally know 2 Gold Star families. Like you, we were fortunate enough to manintain Blue Star status,.......but I've witnessed the searing pain of a family learning they have become a Gold Star family. Nothing any politician says makes a damn bit of difference."
(I tried to get that in quotes but couldn't get it all that way)
I am in complete agreement. This whole conversation makes me a little nauseous.
The quote thing can be a bit aggraving depending on your browser.
I know we've discussed our sons before, I was AyKay47 on NV. Is your son doing OK? He was a sniper? If I remember correctly.
Said Congresswoman has a known track record of making controversial statements that puts her on the same level as the not so reverands Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton, along with Maxine Waters to name just a few. Wilson is nothing more than an overinflated egotistical race baiter. If Sargent Johnson had been white, nothing would have been heard from Wilson!
She is both the Congresswoman and friend of the family … accompanying the family on the way to receive the young man's body!
While I feel she should not have commented publicly, it is unwarranted to criticize her presence with the family under the circumstances.
Lol, I love that expression...and yet she still thinks it's all about her..."I am gonna be a rock star". What a pompous jackass!
It is the widow's decision as regarding release of the conversation, not the dumbass congresswoman.
Listen to what Zimmerman said when told he should not follow Martin … and what he did nevertheless.
Zimmerman is recorded saying …
"These assholes, they ALWAYS GET AWAY !"
Not this time, George … huh? This "asshole" didn't get away, did he?
Zimmerman was acquitted because of faulty instructions to the jury.
NOTE: I did not broach Zimmerman in this thread … I am responding to what came before.
Why Jury Instructions Matter
In our system, we leave questions of fact to a jury. But to render a verdict, a jury must know the law. For this, we rely upon jury instructions. Instructions are supposed to translate the law into lay terms that the jury can apply to the facts as they determine them.
Most followers of the Zimmerman trial know that the jury was instructed about the definitions of both second-degree murder and the lesser-included offense of manslaughter. They also know that the jury was instructed about the definition of self-defense.
The self-defense instruction tracked Florida’s broad right to self-defense, which favored Zimmerman in three important ways:
1) A defendant is “justified in using deadly force if he reasonably believes that such force is necessary to prevent imminent death or great bodily harm to himself.” This means that Zimmerman’s shooting of Martin did not actually have to be necessary; Zimmerman simply had to have a reasonable belief that it was necessary. (This is typical of self-defense in other states.)
2) If Zimmerman “was not engaged in an unlawful activity and was attacked in any place where he had a right to be, he had no duty to retreat and had the right to stand his ground and meet force with force, including deadly force if he reasonably believed [as above].” This is part of the “stand your ground” aspect of Florida law, which does not require a person to exercise reasonably safe retreat options.
3) “If in your consideration of the issue of self-defense you have a reasonable doubt on the question of whether George Zimmerman was justified in the use of deadly force, you should find George Zimmerman not guilty.” In some states, defendants have to prove by some level of certainty that they acted in self-defense. In Florida, the state has the burden to disprove self-defense beyond a reasonable doubt.
Notice how these three parts fit together to Zimmerman’s advantage. Following someone — even if because of the most horrific racial stereotypes, even while armed, even after a police dispatcher warns one not to — is not unlawful. And if jurors had any reasonable doubt about whether Martin “attacked” Zimmerman — even if he did so out of fear of a strange older man who was following him for no legitimate reason — they were instructed to acquit.
How Even Floridians Lose the Right to “Stand Your Ground”
Does that mean that Florida law allows a person to trigger an altercation and then use deadly force when he gets a defensive response?
No. Even Florida’s broad self-defense statutory scheme follows traditional self-defense limitations by prohibiting “initial aggressors” from using force provoked by their own conduct. A defendant in Florida cannot claim self-defense if he “initially provokes the use of force” against himself , unless he either withdraws from the conflict and conveys the withdrawal to the other party (the legal equivalent of “saying ‘uncle’”) or uses reasonable escape options to avoid death or great bodily harm (in other words, the initial aggressor has no right to stand his ground; he must retreat).
_____________________________________________________________________
Beyond that … the name calling is childish … make your case like an adult.
"Stand your ground" was not a factor in the Zimmerman case. The media did a pretty good job convincing people it was a factor though.
Try this: lay on your back on the ground and have someone straddle you. At this point ask yourself; is retreat an option? If you can safely retreat from this situation then "stand your ground" is a factor. If you cannot safely retreat, then it is not.
As for the other jury instruction stuff, once there is enough evidence to trigger a self-defense claim it is up to the state to punch holes in that claim, the state failed miserably. A valid self defense claim removes ALL criminality. It doesn't warrant consideration of lesser included offenses, it simply wipes them all out.
NOTE: Of course, you and I will not agree here; but this is now a good debate!
Peace.
It's not heresay, there was DIRECT evidence that Zimmerman was on his back at some point during the confontation. Zimmermans narrative explained the existence of that evidence, the states meandering narrative of guilt did not.
The prosecution did not establish Zimmerman as the aggressor.
As far as agreeing, I think we both agree that Zimmerman is a POS.
I wish the state had a case and made the case for an unlawful killing. In Florida it really wouldn't have mattered if it was manslaughter or murder. The mandatory sentencing laws for gun crimes would have put Zimmerman away for a very long time.
But the fact remains, the state didn't make a case because there was no case to be made. The trial was for show. There was no way Zimmerman was going to be found guilty and some really smart people taught me that months before the trial began. Problem is, those people were largely ignored because the whole story was such a ratings boost for the news media.
Zimmerman's narrative "explaining" the "existence" of any such evidence is still hearsay from the only eyewitness; it was neither corroborated nor validated empirically.
By pure definition, one can state that Zimmerman, making a statement on behalf of Zimmerman, does not constitute "hearsay" in that it is not an "out of court statement," by a third party, but, because it was not disputed that Zimmerman killed the only other eyewitness, as so-called "evidence," it cannot be definitively verified.
How can it be determined that, even if i.e. Zimmerman's clothing showed "dirt" on the back of his clothing, he didn't roll on the ground to create a "plausible" reason for "self defense."
Zimmerman saw Trayvon Martin re-enter the condo complex by cutting between two houses (coming back from convenience store) and followed Martin surreptitiously through the dark and rainy night for at least 10 minutes. Problem is Martin saw Zimmerman stalking him.
Zimmerman wanted to be a Hee-ro and catch Martin breaking in somewhere so rather than just announce to Martin that he was neighborhood watch, Zimmerman kept silent leading Martin to assume he (Zimmerman) was up to no good and meant him (Martin) harm.
If Zimmerman wasnt a jagoff trying to be a Hee-ro no one would have got injured or killed.
He's not Clint Eastwood or Bruce Willis. He's Inspector Clouseau. He should have just told Martin who he was as soon as he started tailing Martin.
The narrative is the narrative. A narrative that ties together direct, circumstantial and corroborating evidence is the narrative that is likely to win in court.
it is up to the state to put forth a narrative that:
1. Consistently explains or ties together the various evidence.
2. shoots sufficient holes in the defendants narrative.
3. Accomplishes 1 & 2 beyond a reasonable doubt.
that is the states burden
the defendants burden is to establish reasonable doubt.
Well, that is the burden of the State to sufficiently impeach this aspect of Zimmermans narrative. Thankful in this country we are innocent until proven guilty. People don't get convicted for "plausible". But Plausible is a very good defense.
It was a phenomenon for quite some time.........all discussions lead to Zimmerman. Haven't seen it happen for a while though. But it sort of makes sense.
Trump is the new Zimmerman.
Zimmerman had a witness credibility problem because he killed the only other witness.
Same response.
Was the window open ?
This story just keeps getting deeper in the shitter than I ever could have imagined.
The truth is that Wilson was with Johnson’s family in a limousine on the way to meet his casket; she heard the call, as did everyone in the limo over its speakerphone. The Tribune’s wording creates the false impression that Wilson’s conduct was intrusive, repulsive and self-serving. Wilson is a close friend of the Johnson family. The call was on the speakerphone. It was impossible for her not to have heard its contents. Your readers deserve better.
Maybe because the family asked her to go with them to meet the casket ?
Did she confirm the context of the comment? If she is outraged over the president saying that her husband's courage at choosing a job that put him in harm's way then she shows that she failed to understand the nature of her husband's job.
The outrage is political. Trump should have used the Obama model and not made the phone call.
I thought you were done with this? He was ACQUITTED....get over it already!
Did you say the same to HilLIARy? Ask her how DEPLORABLE she feels now!
Did you say that to O'loser when he called me a TERRORIST?
Direct witness testimony is not hearsay.
Pretend your a legal scholar and discussing case law.
That "get over it" business is ordinarily a dismissive comment posited by those who cannot mount a viable counter point.
You're in no way obligated to immerse yourself in a thoughtful discourse.
Did you say the same to HilLIARy? Ask her how DEPLORABLE she feels now!
Did you say that to O'loser when he called me a TERRORIST?
Those of the Trumpian "mind" set continues to bring Clinton and Obama into the discussions because they understand what a dangerous, inept, egomaniac Trump is … so you divert … and the name-calling is your adolescent trademark.
Make a viable point and appear grown up.
That has been debunked … I posted the video of the event … Kelly lied.
So, no response?
See if you can make a viable point without disqualifying its content with the adolescent name calling.
I responded … rhetorical stuff not worthy of any more than I posted.
You're third man in …
She’s literally all 🎩 hat. Truly an empty barrel as the general said.
Considering her district it’s likely that there are very few Republicans in it.
She’s literally all 🎩 hat. Truly an empty barrel as the general said.
The general LIED! The video of the Congresswoman's speech (which I posted) referred to by Kelly, shows that none of what he alleged took place.
He lied!
And you folks that can't seem to make a point in stand-alone fashion without emulating Trump's name-calling, weaken any validity a given point might otherwise have.
In case the definition of the word "deplorable" is unfamiliar in your circles ...
Bigots, xenophobes, misogynists, pussy grabbers, and all manner of haters fit the definition.
Clinton subsequently both explained what I just explained and apologized.
I explained ...
No apologies.
So Kelley and the others in the room when Trump called the widow should have left the room right?
Please explain what made that clear to you and juxtapose it with Kelly's lie. BTW, whether she is virtuous of not is irrelevant.
There is zero evidence of that claim. In fact, Kelly had the chance to say just that and he didn't.
So Kelly recommended that Trump say 'but I guess it hurts anyway'? What was his first freaking clue/ Sheesh.
General Kelly is now in hiding from the media. Sanders said 'NO mas' from him.
The fact is, just like his boss, Kelley failed miserably and LIED.
Yet Trump insisted that he called everyone, another LIE. HE is the one that created that expectation.
I guess they trying to catch up with all the bashing the right does to the left. The truth is there are no
on either side.
Both can't seem to hold a civil discussion on any topic without the denigrating and derogatory political bashing that adds NOTHING to the discussion but unnecessary and useless vitriol to fan the flames of discord. Even if the topic was a pile of rat poop, both sides would immediately turn it into a political debacle. So very childish.
Just my opinion from a non-partisan POV.
Just because you start a comment with a pronouncement and a broad-brush insult doesn't mean it has credibility nor accuracy.
Your badass-toned in-your-face style is quite annoying and it puts members off, not because you're intimidated, rather, because no rational person wants to experience a feeling akin to one walking through a zoo primate house and having feces thrown at them.
Make your case in a civil manner, stop already with the debunked vitriol and lose the "liberal goober" nonsense and other such talking down that seems to make you think you're firing shots from a high road.
I posted that specific information.
The deceased soldier was an alumnus of the 5,000 Role Models of Excellence Project, a mentoring program Wilson started for youths pursuing military careers, among other fields. So were his brothers. One received a full scholarship to Bethune-Cookman University, and the other is training to become a firefighter.
Wilson’s connection to the family goes back at least one generation. She told CNN that she was the principal of a school that Johnson’s father attended.
These relationships were part of why Wilson was with the family — not just because she was “a member of Congress.”
Said Congresswoman has a known track record of making controversial statements that puts her on the same level as the not so reverands Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton, along with Maxine Waters to name just a few. Wilson is nothing more than an overinflated egotistical race baiter. If Sargent Johnson had been white, nothing would have been heard from Wilson!
Post the track record in list form so that each "controversial statement" can be verified or debunked. Interesting names you posted … and since you arbitrarily and insidiously decided that if Johnson had been white, etc., I'll ask you if you actually think that perhaps no white clergy individual has ever made a controversial statement.
If you think that like "minded" herein will come to your side and laud such obvious singling out of just black "examples," sickeningly, it will probably happen.
Ironic that those words describe that pathetic crap you insist on posting to a T.
Sorta shows the world just how hypocritical your words were when you lectured us on "why can't we just have a conversation and stick to the subject?" Right?
I haven't addressed you or your liberal BS dialogue - "dialogue?" - I mean "rant" in nearly a week - and yet you are, assaulting me for no reason while you are apparently feeling the need to keep the fight going. Tell me mac - is it because you feel privileged or protected? Or do you just need the attention?
Take a look in the mirror mac - and then cry some more crocodile tears.
Decide mac - quit harassing me or quit whining when I respond.
I don't care which - because there's nothing more rewarding for me than exposing liberal horse-pucky for what it truly is.
By the way mac - seeing the new evidence pouring out of DC showing Dingle-Barry's administration ass deep in a scandal sending yellow cake uranium to Russia for millions of $$$'s in bribes really has been a real education in the lack of liberal morals, ethics or character. The icing on the cake is the evidence indicating the Russian dossier that started the whole false narrative of Trump colluding with the Russians was paid for by those ACTUALLY involved in collusion - hilLIARy and the DNC......this has ALL BEEN PRICELESS!!!!!!! Liberal ethics on display!!!!!
As I said - take away all the lies, the BS and the false narratives employed by the liberal goobers - and the room gets vewy, vewy quiet.
Enjoy the rest of your day.
Gee - it's been a while since I ran across anyone so deep in denial that they were challenged with just being honest with themselves......this is what happens when someone spends their days reading and re-reading liberal blogs - pretty soon they can no longer discern fact from fiction. CNN rots the mind.
No problem mac - I love calling out liberal BS almost as much as I do challenging liberal self-righteousness. I only wish this was more of a challenge for me.
You whined about my post four days ago - and when that didn't get the attention you crave you whined some more - and then when you DID get attention you whined some more. Looks like more than a pattern - looks like a deep seated need, a "jones". So go ahead - whine some more mac - show us what a kind, benevolent and mature person you are - so us how much you've grown the past two days. AAAAAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
At best your comments are delusional. Just like Nancy Pelosi saying that "Hamas is a humanitarian organization", you can stick your fingers in your ears and scream "lalalalalalalalal" the rest of the week and Chris Steele will still not be respected anywhere but the DNC - and of course , everyone knows that honest, respected entities with nothing to hide routinely take the 5th in an investigation. Right sparky?
The goober party is coming unraveled......and there aren't enough statues to tear down that will cover- it up. This is the tip of the iceberg, more coning every day.
Speech impediment? Is that another example of the kind hearted benevolence of a liberal? You like laughing at the physical handicaps of others? Nice......
Naw sparky - you don't bother me. Just keep in mind I gave you two opportunities to walk away, that you instead used them to take another swipe at me - and that it won't be long until you're whining for help again.
Ya know - if you could drum up enough strength of character right now to admit to what we all know to be facts it might allow you to hold on to a bit of credibility when this all falls apart, when Dingle-Barry and hilLIARy are left to explain why they took $145 million from the Russians to allow them access to US uranium, uranium that has already left the country, soon to be used by Iran or NoKo....why they covered up their acts of betrayal..........why they still obstruct the investigations.
Just think mac - your unflagging support of traitors like Dingle-Barry and hilLIARy underpins the very acts that could very well help kill your fellow Americans some day.
Liberal character! HAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!
Liberal Ethics and Morals! BBWWWWWAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I'm sorry … did you say something?
It occurs to me that the newest revelations about the Russian dossier confirms three things:
1) That the year long denials by the DNC and hilLIARy prove to be yet another example in the litany of Klinton lies
2) That the DNC and hilLIARy are victim of their own deceit, that had they left well enough alone and NOT tried to attack Trump with yet another false narrative, another lie that this would have never happened.
3) That had hilLIARy been a viable candidate and not a narcissistic pathalogical liar - had she campaigned in Wisconsin, Pennsylvania - she might have won and this would have never come out.
BBBBWWWWWWWWAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!
Remember - ya can't spell Hillary with L-I-A-R
HAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
So he was defending himself by following him? Huh? LOL That makes no sense at all.
Okay, I've read through these threads, and I'm not seeing where AMac has harassed you. IN fact, I see the opposite. While there is no specific part of this comment that is a direct violation of the CoC, the entire comment is nothing more than an attack on AMac for trying to keep the debate civil. I am warning you, Bourbon Street, knock it off. Discuss the issues without the snarky skirting insults.
John Kelly is the classiest man in Washington right now.
Well done General.
i agree, i held my breath and was tearing up during his speech..you could reach out and feel the pain in his voice and told the truth about how much damage the left has done to this country.
Exactly. John Kelly is a great American and expressed the situation perfectly.
My estimation of Kelly's ethics and competence just went way down.
It's not hard to be classier than the President, the bar has been dropped on the ground since inauguration day.
Because he explained the notification process? Because he spoke the truth to those who want to make the loss of a son a political issue? Because he put a dingbat dem's words where they belong, in the trash?
Because you want another reason to express your Trump hate?
Your estimation is just a meaningless political expression that demeans a Gold Star father. Isn't demeaning Gold Star parents something liberals find abhorrent? Or is that protection only for liberal Gold Star parents?
It's good that your 'estimate' has nothing to do with reality. General Kelly is a true, patriotic American who has served his country his entire adult life, and continues to serve now. Because you don't like that he saw a duck, it walked like a duck and quacked like a duck, so he called it a duck is no reason to berate the man, unless, of course, you have an agenda......
Also, not hard to be classier than pretty much the entire left, from this board all the way up to and including the U.S. Senate.
Although I agree that what vic said about John Kelly is true, "John Kelly is the classiest man in Washington right now." I think that what he said came right out of Trumps mouth. Everything that has been said about this coming from the Administration is nothing more than Trump doing what Trump does best, open mouth insert foot, open mouth again and, insert other foot, Trump could have cooled this whole thing down with just one more phone call, one were he apologized to the Gold Star family "if he had offended them" but, all he could do is make it more political. This covers it pretty well. Trump is using Kelly as a scape goat, and, I feel it is wrong.
Yes he is and, he is being used by the most unpatriotic administration that has ever existed in this country.
That denigration of Kelly and the pos video puts your comment onto the garbage dump of political noise.
You might want to consider that Kelly is defending Trump because he doesn't want the crazy man to fire him, and that he wants to be around to keep an eye on him, prevent him from starting a nuclear war. Trump is a seriously dangerous man now that the deranged, angry, spoiled, overgrown child is POTUS.
Now you attack a Gold Star father for expressing heartfelt words about the loss of his son? He was just using his son to keep a job that he doesn't need?
Attacking him?? Umm, no Aussie, I was defending him. You sure have a weird take on things...
Comment removed for skirting the CoC [ph]
You are saying Kelly's words were said just to protect his job. So Kelly was just using his dead son to protect Trump?
You were not defending Kelly but attacking him!
Uh, No, he has class and a set of beliefs. If those beliefs were being compromised by someone else, he would resign his office and walk away, much like what Colin Powell did.
It's called Integrity, though I understand that is a foreign concept to many here.
He is berating the Congress woman (whom I dislike a lot) for listening to the phone call, but tRump had several witnesses as he claims to verify what he said and that indicates they too listened in on the call. Based on that yeah he dropped status points.
He was attacking the Congresswoman concerning the phone call nice try at deflection, I am guessing Kelly Anns correspondence course works.
Did he have the call on speaker phone? If not, they only heard what he said and NOT the whole of the conversation. And, has anyone seen or heard what the widow's responses were DURING the conversation? Just curious......
You invested valuable time to type that comment?
PLEASE, get real.
Here it is for those of you interested.............Sounds pretty awesome to me........
He even asks about their son and his football..................
Pretty much as you did with yours, no?
Although this is NOT the phone call in question, seems like a set pattern of how it went in Mrs. Johnson's case. Wilson took a small chunk and ran with it. I want the real call. Don't they record all WH phone calls?
Even that won't convince the Trump haters .... Of the care and compassion and respect he gives to Gold Star families.
"Natasha De Alencar, the widow of Army Staff Sgt. Mark De Alencar, released video of her conversation with President Trump."
It's clear that the Gold Star widow has someone else video / record her call with Trump.
Suuurrreee,
And, there is more but, I'm sure you know this.
Oh man, you mean someone else was there during the call? Kill them, they know too much!!!!
The Kahns?????????Last August????????
Got any outrage from anyone/group in those stories you posted that feel the same about this conjured up bullshit?
I'll wait.............
The difference is the Actual Conversation, NOT the cherry picking fraction of a statement that Trump made in this case.
Weird how the other 3 Gold Start families that Trump called that day have no disparaging remarks about what Trump said.
We all know who the Kahns were and how they made the stage at the DNC Convention.
Sorry Lenny, but Bush/Obama is not longer in office.
He was because she turned a condolence call into a political issue. The dumbass congress critter deserves every ounce of criticism she gets!
Kelly doesn't need to defend Trump to keep his job. That is an insult aimed at Kelly for political purposes.
Yes, we know the respect Trump has for Gold Star families and POWs, don't we? We know empathy and compassion are part of Trumps character, that he cares deeply about other people. He proves it by his words and deeds. He is just a big cuddly teddybear that exudes the piety and morals of values voters and evangelicals. How proud you must be to claim him as part of your party!
Yet you defend her. Why? Because you hate Trump more than her. He listening isn't the issue but her using the death for political gain is. She now claims to be a rock star for dissing Trump. You are defending a real classy Maxine Waters wannabe.
Did you even listen to the video posted above ???
Come back after you do, if you dare .
"Rachel Maddow" as a reference????? BBBBRRRRUUUUHHHHHAAAAAHHHHHAAAAAA. Class A Trump hater from day one.
It's mandatory for that sort.
Yes we do and how chickenshit "bone-spur" draft dodger Trump loves to shit on vets and their families. I'll bet you loved his put down of John McCain's captivity and torture. Oh, that was funneeeeeee!
She's still trying to prove that Anthony Weiner's sexting phone was hacked.
Why, because you can't handle the truth of an honest person??
And, we are suppose to be surprised at that? It couldn't.possibly, be because he is Pres. Trump's Chief of Staff. No way!
No, because he spoke before he knew the facts and thus repeated the lies the WH was spreading, and because he further politicized the issue by lying about Wilson.
It was a condolence call. He knew the fact that the soldier was dead. He called a parent without knowing their soldier was dead? He should have followed Obama's example and not call.
Reading your comment, it is really not hard to tell who the callous progressive leftist libs are and who most likely have never served in the U.S. military, especially in a combat zone!
You mean like saying, "what difference does it make"?
Stay faithful to your mission brother.
Semper Fi General Kelly, Semper Fi!
Kelly made a powerful and moving statement. I hope people - particularly politicians and journalists - took it heart, but I don't expect much.
I, too, couldn't believe it when I heard a member of Congress listened in on a call of condolence from the president, and then chose to condemn the president's comments and make a public scandal of it. Sadly, the media just went with it and never questioned her behavior in making this a story.
Grief is very personal and so is offering condolences for a loss. The truth is there's probably nothing any president can say that will help and there's nothing he is likely to say that is objectively offensive. It turns out that what Trump said came from advice from Kelly. I think if you're about to call a grieving military widow, General Kelly is a pretty good source for advice on what to say. Certainly, he's better than this Congresswoman.
But honestly: employ some common sense. The very fact that the president called at all says he wants to reach out and help if at all possible. Do you really think he's calling to be arrogant or insensitive?
I'll tell you what's arrogant: This congressperson, who has no experience in these matters, judging someone who is trying to do the right thing.
And then today, this evil woman, Frederica Wilson, responded to General Kelly's comments by saying "he's just trying to keep his job." General Kelly is, himself, a gold star father. He gets to speak about this with authority. He has also had a long a brilliant military career. He doesn't need this job and he's not in danger of losing it anyway. He has no reason to fight for his job by defending Trump.
The congresswoman is a piece of shit, she should be removed from office and stripped of her U.S. citizenship, removed from this country, and never be allowed to return.
How the fuck can you strip an American citizen of her citizenship?
Agreed, that goes a little bit too far, but yeah, she should be drummed out of office.
Little bit? How about total disregard for the Constitution.
Why?
Read the Constitution - Congress has the authority.
Read the jurisprudence. A US citizen can always choose to retain their US citizenship.
Although rare, it is possible for a naturalized U.S. citizen to have his or hercitizenship stripped through a process called "denaturalization." ... Natural-born U.S.citizens may not have their citizenship revoked against their will, but may choose to renounce their citizenship on their own.
Well said....
Support the Constitution do you? Obviously opposed, except for the 2nd Amend.
This has been a model used by most presidents since the Civil War ended, maybe Trump should learn to read.
Executive Mansion,
Washington, December 23, 1862.
Dear Fanny
It is with deep grief that I learn of the death of your kind and brave Father; and, especially, that it is affecting your young heart beyond what is common in such cases. In this sad world of ours, sorrow comes to all; and, to the young, it comes with bitterest agony, because it takes them unawares. The older have learned to ever expect it. I am anxious to afford some alleviation of your present distress. Perfect relief is not possible, except with time. You can not now realize that you will ever feel better. Is not this so? And yet it is a mistake. You are sure to be happy again. To know this, which is certainly true, will make you some less miserable now. I have had experience enough to know what I say; and you need only to believe it, to feel better at once. The memory of your dear Father, instead of an agony, will yet be a sad sweet feeling in your heart, of a purer and holier sort than you have known before.
Please present my kind regards to your afflicted mother.
Your sincere friend
A. Lincoln
Trump sent her a letter, do you have any idea what it said? No? I didn't think so.
See, you're not trying to be helpful. Comment removed for skirting the CoC [ph]
More Trump hate. He should have done the Obama method and not called. Who would expect a dingbat all hat and no cattle dem to be sitting in on the conversation ready to pull any words out of context so she could make a name for herself?
He'd be attacked if he didn't call. Very simply, no matter what he did or didn't do, he would be attacked for it. That's the silliness the left refuses to see itself doing.
Political blinders!
More like "That's the illness the left refuses to see itself afflicted with".
According to the piece of shit Donald Rump - I sent a letter - or a letter will be sent - Sometimes I call - and sometimes I send a letter - sometimes both - when I can.
How about sometimes - NEVER?
Try again.
Keep believing Trump tweets.
Kind of like what your side did to Obama for eight years? I think you are projecting here.
Try again, the blinders seem to be on you, Bush 43 gave this speech yesterday, about your boy Trump.
So, now the left is hanging on the words of George Bush? The person they spent 8 years berating, calling him an idiot, disputing everything he said or did-calling him a liar and a stooge and not to be trusted....oh wait....I'm starting to see a pattern here......
Really? If he had made a call with genuine empathy, actually looked at the fallen soldiers name and given condolences, no one would have ever said boo, but true to his narcissistic nature he blew it and didn't care in the least. I am actually surprised he didn't hit the widow up for the check to put in his campaign coffers, that is out of character. Poor poor victim donald
It is not we that drinks the Kool Aid and pretends it is refreshing. Have another cup.
Have you ever thought that "maybe" Georgie was talking 'bout how the political discourse in the U. S. has gotten purely childish with each and every simpleton looking for their 15 minutes of fame? Looked like it to me.
Let's see, 43 came before 44......even using common core, right?
Now you love Bush? Bush was a lousy president who spent like a dem and got us into a war to remove Saddam. I thought the left opposed the war? Trump opposed the war.
None are as vile as the dumbass congresswoman!
Isn't it hysterically funny how the left uses whatever they have available even though they have demonized Bush in the past? I am laughing so hard!
I am not surprised at it. Ends justify the means.
Since they were driving down the road at the time what did you want the Congress woman to do, jump out of a moving car? She is a family friend, the family wanted to share that moment with her so, they did. I can't believe that you are defending a person, (Trump), who was heartless at such a moment.
Show some class instead of being a dumbass.
Kelly was listening in, pot meet kettle?
And yet, he did nothing to politicize it until AFTER this Congress-critter went to the press. What he did was to tell the press his story, what he heard and some background on this......person....I hate to use the word Congresswoman when discussing her, as it insults so many....
Bank robbers only proclaim innocents after they are caught, not while they are spending the loot.
Not hardly! He didn't go all dumbass after the phone call. The dumbass congresswoman did. Now the dumbass claims to be a "rock star" for the political noise she made.
How 'bout giving some credible sources to these "family friends" comments. Wilson is the only one who has said they were "family friends" - no one has supported that claim.
You mean like Trump does? How long has he been making this all about his snowflake feelings being hurt?
Following the Trumpbots ideas, neither has anyone come out and, disproved it.
Trump is hitting back at the constant attacks from the left. I don't blame him for doing that.
He died for our Country is the same thing Pres. Trump said. That is the reason every mother/father worries about the safety of their son/daughter while part of the Armed Forces or part of Law Enforcement. And, most recently, and always, the firefighters who risked their lives to save others.
Kelley is tired of CNN's crap.
Did he tell you that or did FAUX?
I bet he got really pissed at the Sun Sentinel when they proved he was lying about her speech too!
wilson and the left prove they have no shame and are irredeemable POS and just how much damage they have inflicted on this country....this country doesn't need them or want them.
kelly is someone this country should thank god he is in our country...kelly had me in tears and my heart broke during his speech..maybe wilson and some libs need to take a walk around arlington instead of pissing on their graves.
Why don't you hold Trump to your supposed standard? My family has served for generations, I'm lucky I stayed a Blue Star mom, but I've lost another child so I know what Trumps disgusting words sounded like to that mans family. Don't you dare try to own patriotism, your fricken party is not even working on making sure Russia doesn't do more damage! You need to deal with your own damn party and idiot of a president before you start insulting liberals.
my family has served also..in fact my own fathers name is on a memorial plaque in the cemetary where he is buried..i'm sure libs will demand that plaque that honors those vets be torn down because it somehow offends them...
that makes no sense whatsoever...hillary obama and the dem gang have been proven to be the ones that sold america out to the russians in more ways than just the urainium one deal. hillary handing the russian ambassador the big red button is a joke and an embarassment. ...i am dealing with my own damn party by thanking god hillary was defeated and supporting trump
Not likely, besides what makes you think that your the only one that has family that served in any wars or, in the military or, that your party is the only party that has members of family's that served, that is totally stupid.
that makes no sense whatsoever...hillary obama and the dem gang have been proven to be the ones that sold america out to the russians in more ways than just the urainium one deal...i am dealing with my own damn party by thanking god hillary was defeated and supporting trump
Show me the real proof, don't show me something from Brietbart or, FAUX Noise, if you have any. Here's the proof on your hero.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2017/08/15/trump-is-now-out-of-excuses-for-denying-russia-meddled-in-the-election/?utm_term=.6a1509188e21
Now, today we are having an investigation into this and, it would seem that many people in the Trump Administration were involved in this. Yep, Trump is a Russian agent and, many of his people are Russian spy's.
And you go to WA PO, Reuters and the NY Times !!!
Pot meet kettle....
You don't even know what he said for sure. I pretty much believe General Kelly instead of this disgusting pig.
Well said lib50.
You know only the words that were pulled out of context by a politician full of Trump hate.
Hillary was so right about the deplorables.
All the ones I have put up are reputable, the ones that I mentioned, FAUX Noise and, Brietbart have been PROVEN to be biased and, present more fake news than any other.
Cool, I hope she has a good time.
You must think we are really stupid to not be able to make a judgement on what Trump said and how it was said. I've watched the guy for decades and know his usual MO, we all know he's a liar who can't do compassion and empathy. I believe the family and congresswoman, who say the same thing, not the man who lies about crowd sizes when its in front of your face, as a tiny example.
And who is pushing for this "investigation" other than the Democrats and Billary losers??? No one.
You cannot show intent..........isn't that what we were told in the case of a woman who ran for the most important office in the world (and lost by the way LOL) and skirted the CoC (had to stick that one in there hehe) of the office of Secretary of State?
Because their only "standard" is to say whatever it takes to try to get their despicable scumbag off the hook. So, in fact, they are holding him to that cess pool of a "standard."
This "lib" is a Gold Star Mom, so you know where you can put your BS about Arlington. If any President had spoken to me the way Trump did you can bet your bottom dollar the press would hear about it. Why don't you walk a mile in my shoes before you disparage all "libs".....
Thank you.
so you were in that car & over heard the phone call too and can verify what exactly was said........if so can you tell wilson that the hat she wears makes her look like an imbicile and when she opens her mouth she proves it.
You just don't get it, keep excusing Trump for his bad behavior and keep disparaging all libs. Must be nice to live in a bubble with blinders on.
i'm sure you felt that way when obama and hillary were responsible for the deaths in bengahzi and lied about it...and then when hillary told sean smith's mother that she had no right to know what happened to her son because she was not "next of kin"--no--no one could be as cold and disgusting as that woman.--well that is until wilson came along
What did he say to her? You don't even know.
What did he say and what was the context of the words he used?
Did you use your child's death as a political club to bash the president in power at the time?
My grandson wanted to be a Marine since he was very young. He finally cut enough weight to get into the Corp. He knew exactly what he was doing and the risks involved when he enlisted. He survived his two tours in Trashcanistan, his name for the place, and is proud to have made that choice.
Was the President at the time a brainless, heartless buffoon like the current one?
If it were Obama then it could have been.
Oh yeah that's right, Obama was stupid and evil wasn't he? He was also, totally unqualified for the job and acted like a dictator. Oh and he was laughed at and ridiculed by the rest of the world for all the stupid ignorant things he said and did, wasn't he? And he was such a self-centered narcissist, and liar, such a horrible liar that Obama was. And he golfed too much. This is why you guys put Trump in the White House, right?
He wasn't and neither is Trump.
Thanks for responding as expected. Sometimes it's just to easy!
To easy what? And how do you 'easy' something? I never realized the word could be a verb! Also, aren't 'brainless' and 'stupid' basically the same thing?
Thanks again! It gets easier!
My deep condolences, there but by the grace of God.. My son served in Iraq the year after I lost my daughter and he tried to shield me from the danger (you probably know how long that shock lasts after losing a child), he came so close to losing his life, 3 purple hearts and the loss of battle brothers that still haunt him. I wish our military was full of the sons and daughters of politicians, they might be more invested in the decisions to send our soldiers into war.
And I'm sure you feel that way about Niger and blaming Trump for the deaths of those 4 heroes, as he LIES and brings politics into the conversation FIRST by dissing Obama. Did I hear you ask for multiple investigations into Niger?
You have my condelences
And he took all our guns away!!!!!
"The family has confirmed what she said was accurate and the family says they felt disrespected."
SHOW US YOUR LINK.
Just. Stop. You've been slammed and humiliated for your despicable defense of that detestable man. Now you're attacking women who've sacrificed everything and suffered grief that you've never known. Show us that you have a speck of decency.
Lara Trump confirms that her father-in-law said just what Wilson and Mrs. Johnson initially reported:
Looks like you and other Trump-the-scumbag apologists are going to have to come up with another lie to attack this dead soldiers family and friends.
Isn't it wonderful that he's still with you? I wonder why you feel the need to crap on others who haven't been so fortunate.
AMEN! to that. I don't think military service should be a requirement for politicians or their families but I sure get sick and tired of politicians and their supporters who never served their country for a millisecond wrapping themselves in the flag and spouting all these easy platitudes and using their untested "patriotism" as a club.
The only crap on anything is your response to my post.
>--.---.--
Oh, Man...me, too! And with the conservatives I've been posting with for the last 8 years who never wore a uniform but think they know how I feel just because I did
thank you.
Do you think only republicans die in war, apparently so.
Stay tuned … did a Trump Administration fuck up with the nation of CHAD result in the death of four American military personnel in NIGER?
Beware another Trump diversion to cover up his incompetence!
Ultimately, it ain't likely about a phone call and a Congresswoman!
That's probably just a ruse to delay a revelation.
trump was silent on this for weeks and still not being forthcoming. Why do I get the feeling that if Obama was still in charge some would be screaming from the mountain tops demanding to know every detail and hammering for some sort of justification as to why and what went down. Then placing blame. With trump it seems to be ok to just sweep it under the rug and put all focus on a phone call.
This is trump's Benghazi
How in the world is it Trump's diversion? Did he tell the congresswoman to make his phone call a big news story?
He's making the phone call the news cycle item-du-jour in order to avoid explaining what happened in Niger.
I've already explained this and given some of the pieces of the story that will eventually hit the proverbial fan.
Yaaawwwwnnnnnnnnnnn.
Where’s the emoticon of a train 🚂 running 🏃 off its tracks when we need it?
I was the Natural Resource Director for a large DoD installation. I reported to work in the middle of February and spent a lot of time with my employees, active duty and civilian, to get to know them and how they worked. Two weeks later, I got a call from the Military Police at 4:30 a.m. stating that I needed to report for duty. Kinda concerned me. Got to the office at 'bout 5:15 and was met by the entire Chief of Staff section plus the Commanding General (2 Star). The Chief of Staff pulled me to the side and told me that one of my employees had just been killed by a drugged out driver and that the CG wanted to discuss options with me.
The CG asked all types of questions regarding Officer Maples and ended by asking what I think we should do. My reply was that I'd go over to Officer Maple's house and meet with the family and stay with them as long as he would allow me to. He thought for a moment and said that's exactly what we'd do. I quizzically asked him "We"? He stated that he, his Chief of Staff and I would go to the house and do everything possible to help the family cope with the news because Officer Maples was a major part of the installation's family and his family deserved nothing less.
Not only did the CG, CS and I go, but the CG contacted the Space Command CG (3 Star), told him what happened and what we were going to do. After visiting with the family for a few hours, we left the house and returned to the installation.
That afternoon, the Space Command CG called Mrs. Maples and said almost the exact same words the President did. The family was awestruck that someone in his position would take the time to call and offer condolences and any assistance needed if possible.
I only had 68 employees and the President has millions. I had the latitude and ability to act as I did due to the small nature of my area of supervision - the President doesn't.
I believe he acted quite positively - and he didn't add politics to it.
My take...
Mrs. Johnson is grieving the loss of her heroic husband, her feelings are the only ones that matter. Her perspective is her reality; not having details of his death, circumstances surrounding removal of his body, learning his casket cannot be open due to condition of body...and everyone is focused on a Congresswoman, President, & Gen. Kelly.
Mr. Johnson's mother stated her disappointment at the words spoken by the President.
I'd like to know why a condolence call would come as she's riding to meet the casket, the timing was horrific!
Yeah, Blame Trump for the timing too, while you're at it. Actually Trump spoke to her as General Kelly suggested he should. Did you even see Kelly's news conference statement...it was an eye opener and an education all in one.
I don't recall blaming Trump, just asking why it would have happened when it did!
Yes, I did hear General Kelly's statement today. Having lost my daughter when she was 19, I didn't need any schooling. More then the words, I saw his pain, the depth of pain I pray to God you'll never have to know.
I don't believe words spoken by the President were said in malice. Had he been talking to another male, perhaps they would've been received differently. From experience, the wife and mother needed to hear he was a hero, the nation grieves along side them, perhaps offer to pray for solace, and a heartfelt I'm sorry.
i don't know but perhaps trump was not aware of the timimg-but then is there really a GOOD time--i wouldn't think so.
a soldiers family has every right to feel grief, anger, whatever--it is understandable but the grieving widow or her reactions was not the one being blasted by kelly..the despicable wilson and her actions were. kelly said trump asked him what he should say and kelly having been thru it was the one to guide him but wilson is one crazy ass despicable bitch to use that young man's death for her personal vendetta..
The president doesn't have an itinerary for each family, I'm sure a scheduler scheduled this call, and made the call and handed him the phone. Every President's day is highly scripted and not leaving a lot of time for the man to do this or that, outside of the schedule.
I'm sorry for your loss, LynneA. My brother lost his oldest son when he was 17. That was 11 years ago. And it still hurts him and his wife, every single day.
Did Kelly happen to mention that the soldier had a name or did he mistakenly name him
your Guy
I agree the Congresswoman was WAY out of line. After hearing Gen. Kelly, not knowing anything about Ms. Wilson I sought information. Came across the speech (Gen. Kelly referenced) Ms. Wilson gave at the FBI building dedication and didn't hear the self-serving rhetoric Kelly lead the nation to believe.
What transpired between the family/rep/president is, IMO, bringing nothing but more grief to his widow and family. Families react differently when their husband/child is KIA. Very few people have experienced it, and no one knows what their reaction will be. (deep respect for Lady in Black and her loss).
We are all human, we all feel the pain and express it in different ways. To me this isn't about Trump, Wilson or anyone else but La David's wife and family. She has two small children and another on the way, she is 25 years old and just suffered the most severe loss one can experience. That's what matters, she and the family will need all the support that they can receive. They do not need the shit storm that is taking place.
When I came back to the world in 1965 I visited my best buddy family and widow. He can been KIA 6 months earlier. I wasn't there for the funeral but I called the family, and as soon as I told them my name they said they knew very well who I was and wanted me to visit them. It was a very difficult thing to do. When I arrived I was totally unsure what to say or do. I wore my uniform but was worried that it would cause them more pain. The whole family was there, mom, dad, widow, all the rellies. We talked and they asked question, many of them I didn't want to answer, and shaded them a bit. But as difficult as it was, I needed to be there for them and if questions it was, so be it. We talked for hours and they would not let me leave and I stayed for dinner with them.
When I was ready to leave, each and every family member hugged me and thanked me for taking the time to visit and answer their questions. I thanked them for their son and husband being my best buddy.
18 years later I would once again be in a difficult time, this time it was my son who survived, but is 100% disabled and life is very difficult. EMPATHY folks, show empathy for this family and all the parents/wife/brother/sisters/children that have lost a loved one.
Stop with the political arguing...Show some respect.
Thank you for sharing this experience Kavika. Your willingness to be uncomfortable to provide comfort is commendable.
Was unaware of your son's service and subsequent disabilities, I extend my sincerest appreciation for his service and hope he is able to find joy in life ~ I know he's loved.
yes i think everyone has a great deal of empathy and sympathy for the family of the fallen soldier and no one is disparaging her and she can have whoever she wants to ride in the car with her and let whoever she wants listen in on that most painful phone call and she is allowed to show whatever emotion she wants, grief, sadness, anger----------but then for wilson to go on every talk show she could to spew her vile hate filled rant and use this young man's death for her personal vendetta is stunning and beyond despicable...
i have to ask is there nothing the dems won't do to express their hatred for our president, is there no line to be crossed. is there no depth of the disrespect they have for our military. hillary doesn't have to ask what happened --liberal/democrat hatred happened and most americans have felt it, seen it and listened to it every night.
so democrats should stop politicizing every tragedy people suffer and use it in an attempt to score an insult at every opportunity at trump no matter what he does...hell people can't watch a football game, tv show, go to a movie, pray, buy a product or even have a drink and meal out without it becoming some kind of a political statement.
I am sure you supported Obama and would never use an unpleasant events to further but rather just show your love and adoration for him.
Excellent post! I wish you had let me buy you breakfast last month. I would have enjoyed the conversation with you so much!
I wonder, Kavika, if it would be better not to call. The surviving family members have so much on their plate, I'm not sure I would even hear or remember what anyone said if they called me during that time. Traditionally, a ranking service member and a chaplain deliver the news to the surviving family, a letter is sent by the Office of the President (or could be).
I agree, this is not political and shouldn't be. I believe that was part of what General Kelly was getting at.
Your story brought to mind that even with the carnage and continuous loss of soldiers during our wars there was a contingent of military personnel that visited and informed the families as to the passing of their loved one. Unlike your situation these were not personal friends, but simply fellow service members. They took the time to actually know the name of the fallen soldiers one after another. I know that making a call to a family in agony over a loss doesn't personally benefit trump a man with empathy for no one, but he could have faked it and actually looked to see the soldiers name. Empty gestures are often less than nothing.
It doesn't even matter what Trump said. It doesn't matter if he was awkward, abrupt, or seemed not sympathetic enough. Criticizing someone on the details of a phone call made to express condolences for a loss is just shitty. It's hard to imagine anyone being more petty than that.
It does matter, how odd you don't think so. If I am passing a panhandler and I hand the person a quarter I am being nice. If I throw it at them and laugh when they are forced to chase it are the two generosities the same. I think I know the answer.
And is there any indication that Trump threw his condolences to the widow and then laughed at her? No, there isn't. So stop with absurd analogies. Embrace the truth. He was trying to be nice and this congresswoman is nothing more than a mean girl.
analogies work. The fact that is was simply performing an obligatory function is obvious, narcissists lack empathy. He would have done better by sending a form letter, at least the staff would have put the soldiers name on it. tRump is an empty shell give evidence to the contrary if you can.
If it is nonsense explain how it fails to point out that substance, intent matters.
I think he could have at least mentioned the sergeant's name instead of saying "your guy".
trump has to realize by now that he sucks at this empathy thing...he should have gotten advice from General Kelly on how to proceed
Clinton pitbull, media attack Kelly after Gold Star general defends Trump condolence call
Fox News
John Kelly defends Trump's call to widow
For a stunning and emotional 18 minutes on Thursday, White House Chief of Staff John Kelly cut through a nasty debate over condolence calls to Gold Star families, appealing to the political class to allow at least this one thing to remain “sacred.”
Instead, Democratic lawmakers and operatives and allies in the media immediately turned on Kelly – himself a Gold Star father – branding him a liar and an “enabler” of President Trump, even suggesting his criticism of a black Democrat who publicized one of those calls was racist.
“Kelly isnt just an enabler of Trump. He's a believer in him. That makes him as odious as the rest. Dont be distracted by the uniform,” Hillary Clinton’s former spokesman and CNN contributor Brian Fallon tweeted. http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2017/10/20/clinton-pitbull-media-attack-kelly-after-gold-star-general-defends-trump-condolence-call.html
I posted this the other day but I think it bears repeating. Why in the hell does "He knew what he was getting into" translate into a damned negative? Well, I know in some people's minds it's "because Trump". Not being the widow OR any of his family, I truly don't know what I would have thought but would like to think more along the lines of "He was a very brave man, knew the dangers he could possibly be faced with up to and including, and as it turns out, his own death yet, he still chose to serve his country and did so in spite of those dangers. My condolences and deep thanks for his, and your, sacrifice".
Is that so damned hard to consider? And I see General Kelly is of the same mind reading his comments.
No soldier goes into war expecting to die, do they know there is a remote possibility, yes, but not the probability. I drive on very rural roads fifty miles each way and there is a major amount of heavy truck traffic. It would be easy to conclude a reasonable chance of an accident ( I have come upon several) and given the disparity of weight between me and the trucks, I lose. Do I still commute that way? yes, I am just very vigilant.
What no one has commented on is the fact that Kelly has taken that official dive from the shores of a non politician into the deepest depths of the swamp. He can no longer be misconstrued as "Apolitical". He's now just another political hack but one who shamelessly invoked the death of his son for political purposes. I wouldn't be surprised if we start to see our military leaders playing a larger role in "pushing" the agenda of the political party they wish to back. We know where this is heading because we've seen what happens when the military starts to take political sides.
Unfortunately, this site is quickly becoming an echo chamber with very little tolerance. But I have enjoyed the articles posted here and there that pretend it's fair and balanced in both content and moderation.
I don't think it's the fact that you think it's becoming an echo chamber (which it most certainly is not, people comment on what they want to comment on and you are, I am sure, free to express your opinion too) as much as it's not becoming your kind of echo chamber. There are articles/posts all over it which have a majority of posts from one side or the other and the resulting "dominance" of the "conversation".
Problem with the folks I see putting down the site is the fact that reasonably stated opposition to their perception of "events" mandates a "look in the mirror" and self evaluation as far as what is opinion and what is fact. And it isn't one side or the other. It's an individual problem. Not necessarily a group problem
$.02
Nonsense.
Annnnnnd, I rest my case.
👏👏👏👍👍🎯
Come on PJ, you've been on the 'let's make this a left wing echo chamber' bandwagon since you finally came out and showed you are truly a lefty instead of the 'middle' person you told everyone you were before that.
And challenging General Kelly's integrity because he came out and told what he heard and how he felt? Where is your revulsion for this HOR Seat sitter when she praised herself during the dedication of a building in memory of agents that lost their lives on duty? This person is a self-involved pig and giving her credence lessens those that do.
didn't trump do the very same in front of the wall of honor and all he could do is proclaim how awesome he is, how awesome he is and he does great things and he does great things.
Spike, can you explain to me how Trump wasn't lying when he claimed that he "never said what the congresswoman says I said". Kelly said that he suggested that line of approach for Trump to use his his condolences to Johnson when Trump asked him what to say.
The president of the United States lied about what he told the widow of a fallen US soldier. Absorb that fact for a minute.
Did he manage to get a "bigly" or two in there?
And you have what proof that Wilson isn't lying???
Do you follow the news much?
"The president of the United States lied about what he told the widow of a fallen US soldier. Absorb that fact for a minute."
and - "Trump lied, no question about it."
John - your statement requires more that a short and pathetic response.
Were you there when Trump talked to the widow? Didn't think so - hence you have no ABSOLUTE FACTS to support your abominable asinine statement that the President "LIED"
How 'bout providing some of that "Proof" that you keep pushing with some real, supportable links - such as eye-witness statements?
Just saying he "lied", without supporting documentation, carries absolutely no weight in your discussion.
Well I guess you've had an opportunity to see the reports and video that show that Kelly "misremembered" what happened during the building dedication.
As far as your other claim, I've never wanted to be part of an echo chamber. That was one of the reasons why I left one forum and came here. Mostly, I'm disturbed that you seem to think I'm a whore and have no problems alluded to that on an open forum. To be honest it hurt my feelings but I guess I should be grateful that I know who you are now.
1st, the reason that i asked if you if you watched the news is because this has been all over the news.
gen. kelly admitted that trump had told the woman that her husband had signed up for it
he was in the room at the time , ok?
trump had previous lied and said that wilson was making it up
ok?
i know what im fucking talking about
if you dont follow the news just say so
Nice to see you PJ.
Comment removed for skirting the CoC [ph]
Explain what you mean and what pictures you are referring to Gary.
reported
Don't report.
Sacred speech? Rump lied about sending a letter - said something like - a letter has been sent - or will be sent. 'I like to call and send a letter - sometimes one - sometimes both - when I can - fucking liar.
Here are some things I would like to know?
Trump said on MONDAY that he traditionally calls the families of killed soldiers to give condolences. He made it sound like he has done it as often as necessary since he took office.
If that is the case, why did he have to ask Gen Kelly, on TUESDAY, what he should say to the grieving widow of Sgt. LaDavid Johnson when Trump was going to call her that morning?
He had "traditionally" done it , but didn't know what to say? This is "traditional" bullshit from Trump. He can't stop lying even when it concerns the most "sacred" things.
Also, Trump LIED when he said that he did not tell the widow that her husband "had known what he was getting in to". Kelly admitted or said in his comments to the press that he had suggested such a line of condolence for Trump to use when Trump asked him what to say.
So Trump lied again. The president of the United States LIED about what he had said to a grieving widow of a fallen US soldier. Let that sink in for a minute.
What's funny, in the latest development, Wilson says:
Wilson also accused Kelly of using a “racist term,” when he appeared to refer to her as an “empty barrel” during his remarks at a White House briefing Thursday.
She even looked it up in a dictionary to make sure it was a racist term! Funny, Merriam Webster's dictionary come up with 'No Results' for 'Empty barrel'. I wonder what dictionary she had her staff use?
Here's some info form Quora.com:
Shakespeare definitely used the phrase an empty vessel makes the loudest sound , but indicated he was quoting a saying he had heard.
Whatever the derivation, it cuttingly uses a simple physical fact that everyone instantly recognizes to minimize insult and downgrade a very loud critic.
It means that stupid people with ‘empty heads’ make a lot of noise and bluster putting forward their opinions and wrong knowledge, but knowledgeable people are quietly scholarly.
The expression is obviously an image taken from beer or wine-barrels which can of course be used as drums as the empty space inside reverberates. When the expression originated I can’t tell you, but probably long ago when wooden barrels were still the rule for beer etc. It’s once of those expressions that could originate in a pre-industrial revolution society too. Beer and wine production took place in small towns and villages, even in monasteries.
Robert Thorne , Owner (1996-present)
We say an empty vessel makes the most noise.
It means as already said and it arose from physics, as Dominique states, as empty vessel makes a louder noise when struck as there is more room for the sound to reverberate, hit an empty saucepan with a spoon, you will get a loud ringing that lasts for a while. Now fill it with water and do the same, you will get a muffled sound that dies almost immediately.
It does raise a moot point for the pedant, in what is empty?
In both cases the saucepan is full, in the first instance of air, through which sound waves travel easily, in the second water, through which they don’t.
Common usage indicates empty to mean not filled with the contents the container was designed to hold.
I think the congresswoman with the cowboy hats more than muddied the waters regarding this whole thing, and her politicizing it was inappropriate, but Trump has brought all his troubles on himself. He lied on Monday about it, and then on Tuesday said something to Johnson's family that they didnt appreciate. Maybe they took it wrong, and maybe it sounded wrong coming from Trump's mouth. If he wasnt a constant pathological liar he would get more benefit of the doubt.
Good description of current POTUS.
And has nothing to do with my comment, as it's a she said/he said between the Congresswoman and the General.
The fuck it is:
Considering that Kelly lied his toady ass off and slandered Wislon front of the entire country, I think you've picked the wrong horse, yet again, to bet on.
This whole episode is a mixed bag. On the whole, Trump comes out of it smelling like shit (no surprise) and Wilson and Kelly come out looking a little worse for wear.
Trump lied, no question about it. Wilson made more of it than it should have been and may have misunderstood Trump's intention in the phone call.
Kelly appears to have lied (or been mistaken) about Wilson's involvement in the FBI office building , and he was way off base in accusing her of "listening in" to the phone call. She was in a car where the call was played on speaker phone. Was she supposed to put her hands over her ears?
perhaps this will give us an idea of how that call went-although not the exact same call, it kinda proves that the mad hatter johnson is FOS..
Comment removed for CoC violation [ph] but I just wondered where that part when Trump told this widow that her husband "signed up for it and knew what he was in for." Did you leave something out?
I believe katlin meant Wilson vice Johnson.
Woulda been interesting if you had asked that question before trying to chew her azz - ya think?
yes i meant wilson and not johnson..the term mad hatter should have been a clue--i see you got it, obviously others are not as sharp.
That's really cool! Scumbags?
Okay then we'll add sloppy and careless to your resume along with just being plain deplorable.
Poor Johnathan and everyone like him. If he'd only waited the 24 hours it took to show what a lying fuck and total scumbag, like his master, Kelly is Comment removed for CoC violation [ph]
Now, it is even worse. Religion might help!
If you're an example of what religion does to people, you've just reinforced my atheism.
I'm not ready to say Kelly is 'scum' on the level of Trump (let's face it, few are) , but the general appears to have spoke without having his facts in order. That is a common affliction in the Trump white house.
Okay, right now he's slightly a lesser scumbag than Trump but that's a really high bar and he's definitely made the first team of rightwing scumbags and the competition for that team is intense.
For the Record …
Frederica Wilson has known the Johnson family since the late La David Johnson was a child. Members of Johnson’s family attended the school named for Frederica Wilson, who in 1993 founded the 5000 Role Models of Excellence—a nonprofit that focuses on helping black boys become outstanding black men.
La David Johnson was a Role Models alumnus. Both of his brothers participated in the program, including one who is training to be a firefighter. Miamians have come to recognize the boys in the program by their signature red neckties and impeccable manners. They are literal golden boys, who go on to become doctors and lawyers and leaders across Florida and the country.
Kelly lied …
Of course he's a liar. There is no one in that white house with any integrity.
I think that the Congress women should have stayed out of it. If the mother or wife wanted to make a statement then they could have themselves. It only made this a political issue when it should never have been treated as such.
I'm a little curious as to what General Kelly thought about Trump's comments regarding John McCain's military service. In case anyone needs a reminder of his pre-existing disrespect for members of our armed forces:
Furthermore, Trump himself famously questioned the Iraq war. Kelly has yet to speak on whether Trump, Mattis, and Tillerson are all slighting and mocking the military.
But of course, he can't question the Commander In Chief, because the Commander in Chief is always right. Right?
Sadly that shows that most people don 't give a rat's ass.
See if you can make a viable point without disqualifying its content with the adolescent name calling.
IT DIDN’T JUST START NOW: JOHN KELLY HAS ALWAYS BEEN A HARD-RIGHT BULLY