I had my heart surgery at the VA med center here in Portland and the care I received there and at the VA rehab center I was transferred to was nothing but excellent. It was as good as any private hospital in the area and as far as the rehab center, better. I visited a friend at a private rehab before i had surgery and I was there 30 minutes and knew I could leave and I was ready to eat a .38! Absolutely terrible care.
I just read an article a few weeks ago about patient abuse, sexual abuse of female patients, in private nursing homes about a month ago. I would rather be dead than have to go through that.
From what I've read, your VA experience isn't unusual. I'm glad that you survived a delayed pneumonia diagnosis, because when pneumonia is treated like a cold or flu, it quickly progresses to pleural effusion and empyema within days (been there, done that, got the "trophy").
Re: medical professionals' language/communication barriers -- unfortunately, this happens in private hospitals, too.
This is so heartbreaking. This man served our country and to be forced to beg for his life and die leaves me without words. I can only hope that karma is watching.
And believe it or not, the state has a law against placing secret camera's, similar, though not precisely as was done here. I wonder who lobbied for that law?
The law is ambiguous. A complaint could be filed by anyone under surveillance. It needs to be corrected. As someone famous said "Let this be a teaching moment". Maybe some good will come out of this and ONLY the patient will have the right to decide.
I work in the medical field, this is not uncommon.
Neglecting patiences is much more common than anyone would want to believe.
Healthcare workers are under paid, over worked and become burnt out. Many work 12 hour shifts for little pay and no overtime.
I have NO doubt many veterans do not get proper care at the end of life because I work with them and I know we dont take care of them very well when they are alive either.
It all comes down to funding. The vets get the shaft more often than they get the help they really deserve.
At the Environmental Protection Agency (EPA), red tape is preventing the removal of a top level employee accused of viewing porn two to six hours a day while at work, since 2010. Even though investigators found 7,000 pornographic files on his computer and even caught him watching porn, he remains on the payroll.
At a Congressional hearing, EPA administrator Gina McCarthy was asked why she hadn't fired the employee and said, "I actually have to work through the administrative process, as you know."
The administrative process meant to prevent against politically motivated firings is the civil servant protection system. The rules give employees the right to appeal a termination, a process that can take up two years.
"There is a big difference between trying to protect against that and what we have today," Partnership for Public Service president and CEO Max Stier said.
He said those rules make it nearly impossible to fire poor performers or problematic employees, even when they've committed egregious violations.
"Many managers would like to get rid of problem employees and find that they have to go through a challenging process," Stier said.
A CBS News analysis of cases under review by the Merit System Protection Board (MSPB), an appeals board for federal workers, found other instances of employees who had committed seemingly fireable offenses who were later reinstated to their jobs, often with back pay and interest.
Highly publicized cases are no exception.
Five years ago, the General Services Administration (GSA) spent more than $800,000 on a lavish conference in Las Vegas . They were served 1,000 sushi rolls costing $7 each and a clown and mind reader were hired for entertainment. Two managers were initially fired but got their jobs back after the MSPB reversed the decision.
. . . . A CBS News analysis of cases under review by the Merit System Protection Board (MSPB), an appeals board for federal workers, found other instances of employees who had committed seemingly fireable offenses who were later reinstated to their jobs, often with back pay and interest.
This really misstates the problem. Government employees have broad civil service protection because the basic functions of government shouldn’t be subject to destabilization with every incoming administration. The government could become seriously dysfunctional if people with the institutional knowledge that makes an agency function were suddenly swept away on the whim of a presidential appointee.
Anyway, permanent employees (there are exceptions) can only be for fired cause and in accordance with the procedures. Those protections only make it difficult or impossible to discipline an employee if the manager didn’t have cause to fire someone and/or was too lazy or incompetent to document it so it could be proven. You work in conjunction with a competent HR and legal office to ensure that you document properly.
I know because I’ve fired employees with civil service protection. There are similar protections under union contracts and I’ve fired employees under them too. However, some federal agencies are so lazy that, if the agency is big enough, they will create what is essentially an elephants graveyard and send employees there to do nothing until they either die or retire rather than fire them.
If you read cases decided by the Merit Systems Protecrion Board, you’ll see that most decisions to fire are upheld and, when they aren’t, they explain what was done wrong. Anybody with even a lick of sense wouldn’t repeat the same mistake and expect a different result. HR and legal offices read these decisions and are there to advise. So, in my opinion, the only reason an agency can’t get rid of lazy or incompetent employees is because management is, itself, lazy or incompetent.
I understand what you're saying, Steve. But let's all try to remember that this man tragically died at a private, not government, nursing home due to medical "professionals'" blatant laziness and disrespect for human life. And it was caught on camera.
That doesn't natter. Just because it was a privet facility doesn't mean he was getting good care.
I never said that, so please don't twist my words. There are horrible and great public and private facilities. Why would you think I didn't know this when I've never shown ignorance on this topic?
Healthcare workers are under paid, over worked and become burnt out.
I don't know what they're paid, but the people in this video do not appear to be overworked. They just appear to be heartless jerks. Several companies in every field have made the decision to hire people of quality and to prioritize attitudes of service and respect for clients.
Q: What is a registered nurse's salary per hour? A: The mean hourly wage for a registered nurse is $34.70.
In 2015, registered nurses made an average salary of $71,000, which is pretty good pay compared with some of the other health care professions on our Best Jobs list. Licensed practical and licensed vocational nurses usually bring home smaller paychecks ($44,030). But RNs made less money on average than both occupational therapists ($81,690) and physical therapists ($85,790). However, RNs have many options for advancement and a salary increase. With further education, RNs can become nurse practitioners and bring home an average salary of $101,260.
but the people in this video do not appear to be overworked.
Considering how slowly they moved after their patient had rung for help 6 times and he clearly couldn't breathe, I'd call them nearly catatonic.
Most caregivers aren't even CNAs certified nursing assistants. Most caregivers dont even have any medical training at all except for first aid and CPR. Nursing homes may be different but most caregivers are not trained much at all.
I was reinforcing your point. Most of them are CNAs with minimal training, making not much more than minimum wage, and often working in tough conditions. They might have benefits, and they might not.
I posted stats based upon the woman interviewed in the seeded video. She's not only an RN, she's a nursing supervisor. The link I provided was based upon mean and average pay for RNs in the USA. Nothing more, nothing less.
And please don't say that "most caregivers in nursing homes aren't RNs". A great many are. Both of my parents were in nursing homes and rehab facilities numerous times. Those who oversaw their care multiple times a day were RNs. You get what you're willing to pay for.
She was likely the only one there who was an RN. The others were probably CNAs, and probable were paid much less.
I rely on facts, not assumptions. A CNA is basically the same as what was formerly called a "candy striper", a volunteer job done by high school girls after school and on weekends:
On the other hand, a person can become a CNA after only a few weeks of lessons. They have to just learn personal care skills, and nothing as complicated as a person who pursues a LPN exam.
Two different local nursing homes have had financial issues since I've moved to this town. One, I mentioned elsewhere on this discussion - paychecks were bouncing.
Another, which has since been bought out, had premium checks to pay their employees' health insurance bounce.
The average cost of a nursing home private room tops $83,000 a year.
The cost is nothing new. My wife and I have been there, done that with our two sets of parents when they needed private rooms. When they didn't, they were given the same care by MDs, Nurse Practitioners, RNs, LPNs, and other skilled/trained medical personnel in semi-private rooms. In all cases, the only duties that CNAs were allowed to perform were to change the bedding, bring clean towels, fluff pillows, help with feeding, and other menial tasks.
Normally, in a long term setting, the majority of nurses are LPNs. Nursing supervisors and above are normally RNs. The ones tasked with the everyday care of patients are the CNAs. There are many that really care about their patients, but then again, there are many more that don't.
Arent there LVN’s in between the RN and the CNA’s? That’s been my experience in long term care hospitals/ convalescent homes my relatives have been in.
Arent there LVN’s in between the RN and the CNA’s? That’s been my experience in long term care hospitals/ convalescent homes my relatives have been in.
the only duties that CNAs were allowed to perform were to change the bedding, bring clean towels, fluff pillows, help with feeding, and other menial tasks.
Unfortunately though, In some facilities that about the best and most care they get.
Many poor, elderly, disabled and veterans suffer because of poor care each day. And that's probably more the norm.
The average wage for a Certified Nurse Assistant (CNA) in Atlanta, Georgia is $10.99 per hour.
I'm sympathetic to health care workers. My wife is an RN. But no level of pay can justify this kind of behavior. Many jobs are tough or underpaid. Whatever a person is paid, they should still try to do their best and be kind.
No matter what the job or pay......you own it if you took the job and should give l50% back to the job.
There are the doctors, the nurses and the CNAs on the floor, CNAs are required to clean shit not only on the patient, but on the floor. They do rounds for BP, oxygen, pulse, temperature as well as sugar levels. They clean colostomy bags, urine bags. They bathe, wash hair, change sheets, feed patients, and this is only the majority of duties....not all of them.
Healthcare is not an easy job. From the doctor on down it is tough work. What people don't realize is that when a patient it is not about whether you are inconvenienced, but that you get well.
“I solemnly pledge myself before God and presence of this assembly;
To pass my life in purity and to practice my profession faithfully.
I will abstain from whatever is deleterious and mischievous and will not take or knowingly administer any harmful drug.
I will do all in my power to maintain and elevate the standard of my profession and will hold in confidence all personal matters committed to my keeping and family affairs coming to my knowledge in the practice of my calling.
With loyalty will I endeavor to aid the physician in his work, and devote myself to the welfare of those committed to my care.”
That would be what makes nursing a profession, a calling for those who really want to help people
I view nurses/other medical professionals in the same category as educators. They're highly skilled and trained, and not everyone is capable of doing these professional jobs.
Because of school budgets, millions of K-12 teachers spend hundreds of their own dollars to buy supplies for their students. Do nurses have to do this? No. Teachers are underpaid, work long hours, and they are physically and verbally abused by both students and parents.
Do nurses get verbally and physically abused? Maybe, sometimes. I'll admit that I yelled at a nurse when I was in the hospital, but that was because at 3AM she shined her flashlight on my face when I was clearly asleep to ask me if I was asleep.
I totally hear you on that. Why would anybody ask if you need a sleeping pill when you're asleep?
I was so mad at her, Kathleen! All day and all night for the 4 days I was there, medical people stood in the hallway talking/laughing loudly and I couldn't get any rest or sleep. When I FINALLY fell asleep, that nurse came in, bumped into my bed, and I've already said the rest. The next time I saw her, I did apologize, because she really was a good nurse and didn't deserve the tongue-lashing I gave her.
They did the same to my dad. When I asked why she woke him up from a sound sleep to give him a sleeping pill she sai that the doctor ordered it and she had to give it to him. She had no discretion.
During my latest hospital stay I was having trouble sleeping and was unable to get anything because they could not get a doctor to OK it
I know she was doing her job, i.e., making rounds, .... but she didn't have to shine a bright light into my face when there were dim lights on in the room. (Maybe aim the flashlight toward a wall or floor would have been better). I think I scared her more than she scared me, because when it happened, I was so startled that I sat up and yelled, "Why the F did you wake me up to ask if I was asleep? What the F's the matter with you? Get out of my room and let me sleep!" It wasn't my finest moment!
That was the good thing about the VA rehab I was in. The doctor was. always there during the day and usually there was one on call. If you had any r unusual problems, they would rush you to the ER as quickly as possible (i had to go twice)by ambulance. Every week the doctors, physical and occupational therapists, pharmacists, nursing staff rep and a social worker would come in to your room and discuss your treatment with you and would address any of your concerns.
Do nurses get verbally and physically abused? Maybe, sometimes.
Physical assault of nurses is coming to light at a serious occupational hazard.
ER nurses are especially likely to be assaulted. And nursing home workers are also often assaulted - dementia can cause a person to do things they wouldn't normally dream of doing. I know EMTs who joke about having their asses kicked by 95-year-old ladies, but have the bruises to back up their stories.
Lol I went in the opposite direction in a similar situation, when the nurse asked if I was asleep I answered "Yes I am asleep". I believe she stood there for a few seconds (not sure as my eyes were closed) processing my response before meandering on her way.
Then they come in for the BP and temperature and wake you too..
I spent 4 days in the Cardiac ICU .. they woke me to weigh me - she starting to remove my blankets in order to get an accurate weight .... ugghhh I was not very nice, I made her take 2 weights with and without blankets... I do not know if I was weighed again : )
I was a bad patient though - I would disconnect my heart monitor, oxygen etc and go pee - made them insane ... Ooops!
After my stroke I was a very good girl and caused no waves - I did not bitch at all about being woken up ... was just happy to be there to be woken up...
I have never lived on less sleep than when I was in the hospital after a c-section. Of course, my son woke me for feedings every hour or so. The nurses told me babies don't have an appetite for a few days. He didn't get the memo. Then, for 24 hours, they had to take my vitals and check my incision every hour. Said check involved pushing down really hard on my incision, until I was about to cry. One nurse was a lot rougher than the others. I wanted to kick her.
After 24 hours, it was just the baby waking me up. And the cafeteria workers, showing up at 5 AM to ask what I wanted for lunch. SERIOUSLY?!
This goes on in all hospitals and rehab facilities. When my dad was transferred from the hospital to the rehab facility for a knee replacement, the idiots didn't read his charts and overdosed him on his blood pressure meds and stopped his heart. If my mom wasn't present, he would have died.
We have known for quite a while that the VA sucks. But this is a problem across the country and even in private hospitals.
I couldn't agree more. I could fix it in concept real quick.
Our VA card should cover us at any hospital of our choice so Vets like me who live in more rural areas don't have to travel 100+ miles to find a VA facility.
Give the VA hospitals some competition. If they fail shutt them down
Does the funding work that way, though? Such that if you use your VA card at a non-VA hospital, that hospital gets paid, and the VA loses funding?
I actually like the idea in principle. Our local vets have to travel about an hour and 15 minutes to the nearest VA hospital. For more routine needs, there's a VA clinic about half an hour away. It's still hard for older folks to get transportation to the VA. There is no public transportation here.
My dad could receive care at the VA, but the three that are closest to him are all about a 2-hour drive away, so he sees a private physician. He also said that when he took a friend for care at the VA a few years ago, it was an all-day thing - 2-hour drive, followed by sitting at the hospital for hours, no matter what his appointment time was, then a 2-hour drive back. The friend was working at the time, and eventually had to forego care at the VA, because he was missing an entire day of work every week for something that would take half a day or less at a private facility that was closer.
No it doesn't. That's my point, it should. As bad as the private healthcare system is, for the most part it's generally much much better than public systems like the VA.
I am thinking there are plenty of suits that 'we' never hear of ... hospitals, rehabs etc - I believe are settling rather than fighting, in order to avoid bad PR (nursing homes I have NO clue about - my experience with one of them was not good, the staff kept stealing my grandmothers depends, as well as any snacks we brought her - we got her out of there ASAP!
The good acts easily outweigh the bad in many facilities like this. I have a parent in assisted care right now and for the most part the folks that work are angels doing a very tough job. Takes a very special person to do it at a high level each day.
But the bad ones do tend to stick more than the good ones
We have known for quite a while that the VA sucks. But this is a problem across the country and even in private hospitals.
The VA has made progress over the last 6 years or so. I have been using the VA since 1991 and while it does still have it's problems, they are making efforts to better serve vets. For example. Once a year I have to go have my feet checked because I am diabetic. The closest VA hospital to me is 60 miles away, so, with the veterans choice program, I can make an appointment with a local podiatrist and the VA will pay for it. It's not a perfect solution, but it does help vets who don't live near a hospital. The VA knows they are understaffed, so farming out the basic stuff, (like a check up), does free up resources for vets that have urgent needs.
The family in this case was lucky that the video camera was there. However, equally disturbing to me is the fact that the nursing home thinks it can put people under surveillance (if done without consent) in a setting that constitutes the most intrusive invasion of privacy possible. Some sicko employee could turn this kind of surveillance into perverse entertainment.
If I wanted my family member under video surveillance, I might prefer that I could do it myself. There are plenty of YouTube videos of people who captured abuse in a nursing home with their own secret video camera. Maybe employees have a valid objection to being under surveillance. I’d like to see the issue debated a bit more before I make up my mind.
“If not for a secret camera left by the family we wouldn't know
You’re right but the staff didn’t agree to be under surveillance and I would probably object to people secretly watching me just because someone’s else needs to be watched. This still raises problems in my mind concerning the appropriate use of surveillance.
It’s the perfect job for an awful person. You can beat up and torment defenseless people and some of them won’t even remember what happened. If bruises show up, then the person must have fallen down or did it to themselves. If the person claims you did it, then just laugh and tell the family member that “yesterday she said Robin Hood did it.”
I would have to restrain myself from physically assaulting the staff if I saw them assault my mother
At work I have never seen any physical abuse it's basically been neglected I've seen and reported. However with my mom...
I wouldn't restrain myself and you probably wouldn't either. I'll be damned if I would stand there and let anyone physically abuse my mom, or any other patent for that matter.
The abuse I was seeing when I had my mom in a facility was verbal. That was enough ! She was moved the next day !
I have some patients who are nursing home residents, whose entire families have moved out of the area. They have nobody to check up on them, nobody to advocate for them. Some of them don't even know their families have left. I shudder to think what probably happens to them.
I wouldn't restrain myself and you probably wouldn't either. I'll be damned if I would stand there and let anyone physically abuse my mom, or any other patent for that matter.
Last thanksgiving, a man broke into my house and stole my two iPads and my work iPhone and was armed with my sword and combat knife. Unfortunately, for him, I came home and took him into custody armed with a bamboo pole. Six police cars and 12 cops were on the scene. They think I’m “unusual.” Last night, a police car rolled through the alley, stopped and asked if I had seen six black guys in masks. I could telll that he suddenly recognized me as I recognized him. He said they’re just suspicious characters and not wanted for anything so there’s nothing to worry about. I said if they leave me alone, I’ll leave them alone. He smiled and added “if you see these guys, I hope that you will not get involved so PLEASE just call us first.” If someone attacks my mother, then there’s a good possibility that I’ll become “unusual” again. Lol.
My maternal grandmother was old before her years. She was widowed at a fairly young age, with 8 children to raise in rural WV. I guess that'll age you pretty quickly. I don't remember her not being old, and acting old.
My paternal grandmother was different - always laughing, as active as her arthritic knees would let her be, always spoiling a grandkid or 3.
Both died in their 80s, but my dad's mother lived a much happier life.
A local nursing home was shut down for months when a flood that required an evacuation of its residents brought to light loads of violations. One of my patients worked there, and I already suspected there were problems from stories she told, as well as the fact that her paycheck would occasionally bounce. She told us that she often fed residents who had plates of food left in front of them to sit, even though the caregivers knew that their condition made it impossible for them to feed themselves.
So, they flooded one night, and none of their regular employees would even come in to help with the evacuation. Employees of other nursing homes showed up to help the emergency workers with the evacuation, and those employees apparently made some Facebook posts about what they saw that were soon deleted. The nursing home shut down for about 6 weeks to clean and fix the violations.
At work, I see a fair number of nursing home patients, and the condition they're in varies wildly. Patients from some of the better facilities are in pretty good shape - clean, dressed nicely, and accompanied by attendants who obviously care about them. But some have neglected painful infections. Some are left in our waiting room for hours while the driver of the van disappears - and many of those have trouble sitting upright for any length of time. Some never make it to their appointments, because the driver calls in sick, or just forgets, so whatever problem the appointment was made to address is never actually addressed.
I hope never to place my parents in a nursing home.
I hope never to place my parents in a nursing home.
I hope you never have too as well. But if you do research before signing and go often and ask lots of questions to both your parent and the staff. Make sure what they tell you sinks up. If not watch even more closely. As you said there are good ones and there are bad ones. IF you find you made a mistake and chose a bad one.... change to a better facility ASAP.
I went thru this. Its worth watching, asking and moving your loved one if needed. There really are good facilities with specially trained caring people that can do what I couldn't. I was glad I finally found her the right one.
I had cared for her for yeas but in the end her medical condition got to the point she need more. RIP mom
I know which facilities locally are good, and which ones aren't. I would trust the better ones, so long as I visited often, which I would, of course.
My hope is that when the time comes I can care for them at home, either my home or theirs, with the help of my siblings and in-home health care workers, if possible.
Thanks Kath. It was a long tough time for both of us, may she RIP.
Unfortunately I have gotten used to death. My entire immediate family is deceased. It does make me appreciate my life so much more though.
For some it may have had the opposite effect and I am so grateful that for myself it made me more appreciative of my own existence and time I have on this planet enjoying my senses. I take a breath from time to time for my younger dead brother and say "this one's for you Dave"
may they all RIP.
Time to move on.
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Kath, I'm glad to see you still stopping by here. Like I had told one of the other people here. You are one of the good people that come here and you would have been missed.
with the help of my siblings and in-home health care workers,
Yes that would be helpful.
I agree, if the parents health permits, at home is the way to go. Especially if you have help !!!
I cared for my mom for years, with very little damn help from even my younger brother who was still alive at the time. NO ONE ever told me I could get what they call respite care for mom. In all that time all those doctors visits and NO ONE ever mentioned anything about respite care for mom.
I now tell people all the time . I've even stopped elderly neighbors as I was driving by to tell them about it when I knew they could use it. Man that would have been so nice.....
Good luck with your parents !! May they life long healthy happy lives.
So far, so good. Dad turns 70 right after Christmas, and still plays 18 holes of golf every day that the weather allows, even 36 some days. Mom is 66 and still able to keep up with the youngest grandson.
One of my pet peeves in the end of life healthcare "system" is leaches.
I see a lot of medically disabled elderly people many time they will need someone around 24 /7 so often times a family member or a trusted friend will move in to Help. Many times this friend or family member is HELPING themselves to a free lunch including room and board and anything else they can manipulate out of their new host.
I call them leaches. Even if that wasn't their original intent.
Leeches are bad but the outright thieves tick me off more. One of my cousins was actually caught stealing from my hospice grandmother a little before she passed. That cousin doesn't get invited to family gatherings anymore.
When my maternal grandmother was dying, she signed over the family farm to my aunt. None of the other seven surviving siblings got the slightest bit of it. My aunt's husband made sure the deed was in his name, too, so it's effectively his now, unless she outlives him. He has cheated on her, verbally abused her, and was accused by a cousin of rape, and he'll probably inherit my family's land because he and my aunt talked grandma into deeding it to them (really him).
None of the other seven surviving siblings got the slightest bit of it.
Was/is there a chance of contesting the will ?
That was something that came up once when an uncle left me some money, we had to place an add in the paper saying something specific and wait .. o make sure it wasn't contested .. law stuff I had no idea...lol
She signed it over before she died, so it wasn't part of her estate. Outside of the land, her "estate" amounted to about $4,000. Not worth ruining family relations fighting over. Just sucks that it will go to an asshole like him.
I'm so sorry to hear that. It's nasties like that where ya have no control or recourse that I have to rely on Karma to correct. I have a life to enjoy.
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Not to discount that at all because my story doesn't. but I had a brother that got the same inheritance I did. He did squat to help with my parents and squandered his inheritance within a year. Mine set me up for retirement.
The really sad part is, now my brother doesn't need his anyway he's dead too.
Yup. Grandma always said she'd never leave her property to that daughter, because she knew my uncle would end up with it. In the end that's exactly what happened.
Well, it was hard to get to, anyway, and the house is gone. The mineral rights would have helped the other siblings out, but they're all doing ok.
Many years ago, while I was going to college I spent 2 years as a CNA in a long term care facility. Thankless hard work, but rewarding in the sense that you are helping care for someone at the end of their life, (in most cases anyway). While I remember just about every resident I cared for in those two years, (after I got my degree, I kept working there, just not as a CNA), but there was one lady that really touched me. Her name was Maxine. She was in her early 90's when I met her and she got confused quite a bit, but remembered her earlier years with perfect clarity. She told me about her kids, her husband, her job, (she packed peaches in crates for 40 years). All of her kids had passed away as had her husband and all of her siblings so she was for the most part alone. Every morning, I would get her coffee, then go and visit with her and listen to her stories from her past. Absolutely fascinating stuff. This went on for years, my grandparents had long since passed, so I guess I saw Maxine as, "Grandma", to a point), even after I graduated. She would still insist I help her get dressed, brush her hair, put on her jewelry, etc. One day, I stopped in to see her on a Friday, I was about to head out for the weekend and Maxine was really upset, so I went to talk to her and she insisted that she was going to die later that night. So, I clocked out, and went and sat with her. We talked for a while, then she fell asleep and I thought I would take off, but she woke up. She grabbed my hand, pulled me to give her a hug and she died, right then and there. She was a DNR so I just sat there for a few minutes then called the nurse. She died at peace, and she wasn't alone. Not slapping myself on the back here, I just did what I thought was right and we should all be so lucky to have someone with us when we shed our mortal coil.
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Healthcare isn't for everyone, again, not slapping myself on the back, but you really need to have some compassion for people other than yourself. Something else you need? A damn good sense of humor because you deal with a LOT of sadness.
She died at peace, and she wasn't alone. Not slapping myself on the back here, I just did what I thought was right and we should all be so lucky to have someone with us when we shed our mortal coil.
I’ll pat you on the back for going above and beyond the job. All of us must die and it would be of great comfort for me to know that, when my mother passed and I couldn’t be there, she didn’t die alone.
A story. A little before my grandmother’s death, she kept saying she was going to die and started making plans for her own funeral. I didn’t pay that much attention to her because she was always saying that she was going to die. Then she started bugging me about promising to be a pallbearer, along with my other cousins. She said that she wanted me, in particular, to be a pallbearer even if the others couldn’t because she was closer to me than she was to my counsins. I told her that I couldn’t promise anything because I might be too distraught to do it so her plan fell through. She was mad about it. Then, one day, she died.
Her funeral was in her home town, an 7 hour drive away and I got there a little late. Everybody was already in the church and the hearse carrying my grandmother’s body had just arrived. I was the only person outside. As I was getting ready to go into the church, the driver called out to me and said “hey buddy, we’re a man short, would you mind giving us a hand with the casket?” I did. On the way out of the church and to the gravesite, the driver said “we’re still a man short, so I hope you don’t mind giving us a hand again.” So I ended up being a pallbearer anyway and I couldn’t help but think that my grandmother was looking down at me saying “Gotcha!”
Great story! And weirdly similar to my grandmother. My grandmother had been saying for YEARS that she was going to die because she had a brain tumor. Well, the family took it with a grain of salt and just re-assured her that she was fine and that she just got a little bit confused from time to time. Fast forward a few years and I was in the Middle East for Desert Storm.. Well, I get a telegram, (LONG before email, text, etc..), and that I needed to call home ASAP. So, I got to a phone and called my mother. She told me, "I have some bad news...Grandma died last week, (again, telegrams are not NEARLY as fast as email and text today). I replied, "Oh wow, that sucks, I loved Grandma, what did she die of?" Loooong pause....."Brain tumor..." I couldn't help it, as sad as I was, I laughed my ass off as did my mother. I could just imagine grandma looking down and saying, "Yea, how confused am I now you dicks!"
All of my immediate family is dead, too. The only person in my family to go into a nursing home, (except for my great grandfather), was my mother. I couldn't lift her, I couldn't feed her, etc. She needed full time care and I couldn't. She died the next day. That less than 24 hour period of time cost $800 after medicare paid some. She was so mad at me for not being physically able to care for her. Nursing home care costs a fortune, and my state, KY, began to refuse to build more several years ago, so there is a distinct lack of beds. I have looked at a bunch of them, and I would not want to put my dog in them. EGAD.
I hope I have the courage to blow my own head off before I have to go to one.
She was so mad at me for not being physically able to care for her.
At that stage sometimes they are not reasonable. My mom was the same way about stuff that once she would have understood. It may have been more the "illness" reacting than the person.
Something else I considered about my mom was her "acting out" was a way of asserting what little power she had left in the world.
I tried. I tried and tried and tried. I know I contributed to the problem, but I also had to defend myself. It was the worst disappointment of my life.
I know you tried. I'm not sure you contributed to the problem. I think there are just some people who just can't accept others for who they are. I don't think you're one of those people.
My maternal grandmother seems to have been the same sort of person as your mother. Her relationship with her daughters was...difficult. I know it hurt my mother and some of her sisters deeply, and those issues were never resolved before she died. She was a hard, demanding woman, and she played favorites with her children, very obviously. I hated that she made my mother feel unloved. She deserved so much better.
This has all caused me to reflect on age differences, especially in light of the Roy Moore flap. My parents were nearly the same age but my father-in-law, now that I think about it, was probably 20 years older than his wife. Although my wife and I are the same age, her parents were a generation ahead of my mine. Her father was a very rational man and her mother was a total airhead. I assume that he married her, in part, because she was pretty in her day and had the biggest boobs that her frame could hold and not fall forward. Haha
One day, with no warning, her father got sick and fell into a coma. He was on life support and the hospital told his wife that she needed to make a decision by the next morning on whether to pull the plug. She was in a dither and upset my wife who upset me. I still don’t know what she decided to do because, the next morning, he died on his own and she was spared. He wasn’t the type to live in a nursing home (and he didn’t) and he never burdened his wife with any heavy decisions (and his last act was to leave her unburdened).
Her father was a very rational man and her mother was a total airhead. I assume that he married her, in part, because she was pretty in her day and had the biggest boobs that her frame could hold and not fall forward.
LOL
I am working with a couple that is just like that. 22 year age difference. He is the disabled one and very old, his concern is still her well being, but she is basically still a burden on his life. She doesn't do shit for the man and probably never did from what I have gathered. She must have been great in bed is all I can figure out. But knowing them... I doubt even that.
Who's to say this isn't going on at the VA.
It very well could, Vic.
Who's to say this is going on at the VA?
Patient abuse at VA hospitals and other VA-run facilities around the nation have been reported for many years.
I had my heart surgery at the VA med center here in Portland and the care I received there and at the VA rehab center I was transferred to was nothing but excellent. It was as good as any private hospital in the area and as far as the rehab center, better. I visited a friend at a private rehab before i had surgery and I was there 30 minutes and knew I could leave and I was ready to eat a .38! Absolutely terrible care.
I just read an article a few weeks ago about patient abuse, sexual abuse of female patients, in private nursing homes about a month ago. I would rather be dead than have to go through that.
From what I've read, your VA experience isn't unusual. I'm glad that you survived a delayed pneumonia diagnosis, because when pneumonia is treated like a cold or flu, it quickly progresses to pleural effusion and empyema within days (been there, done that, got the "trophy").
Re: medical professionals' language/communication barriers -- unfortunately, this happens in private hospitals, too.
This is so heartbreaking. This man served our country and to be forced to beg for his life and die leaves me without words. I can only hope that karma is watching.
Unconscionable!!
Absolutely. I'm also certain lawsuits and bankruptcy are soon to follow
Letting a person die without trying to help him was "an honest mistake." ????????
Ya, after she blatantly got caught lying about it
The callousness of the nurses there was inexcusable. The poor veteran deserved a much better fate that to beg for help and not get it.
And believe it or not, the state has a law against placing secret camera's, similar, though not precisely as was done here. I wonder who lobbied for that law?
But, if I understood correctly -- if the patient agrees to the secret cam, it's legal?
Thank you for picking up what I missed. Ya that kind of makes more sense of it, I'm ok with that.
I wonder how many people are aware of that detail?
Watch the video again, starting at 5:15.
The law is ambiguous. A complaint could be filed by anyone under surveillance. It needs to be corrected. As someone famous said "Let this be a teaching moment". Maybe some good will come out of this and ONLY the patient will have the right to decide.
So cruel. I suppose the family had reason to believe that things were amiss. A nightmare!
I work in the medical field, this is not uncommon.
Neglecting patiences is much more common than anyone would want to believe.
Healthcare workers are under paid, over worked and become burnt out. Many work 12 hour shifts for little pay and no overtime.
I have NO doubt many veterans do not get proper care at the end of life because I work with them and I know we dont take care of them very well when they are alive either.
It all comes down to funding. The vets get the shaft more often than they get the help they really deserve.
Ok, I can go along with that somewhat, but didn't we learn not long ago how hard it was to fire anyone who worked at the VA?
Isn't that the case with most government jobs ?
I always wondered WHY ?
I think this may help explain it:
At the Environmental Protection Agency (EPA), red tape is preventing the removal of a top level employee accused of viewing porn two to six hours a day while at work, since 2010. Even though investigators found 7,000 pornographic files on his computer and even caught him watching porn, he remains on the payroll.
At a Congressional hearing, EPA administrator Gina McCarthy was asked why she hadn't fired the employee and said, "I actually have to work through the administrative process, as you know."
The administrative process meant to prevent against politically motivated firings is the civil servant protection system. The rules give employees the right to appeal a termination, a process that can take up two years.
"There is a big difference between trying to protect against that and what we have today," Partnership for Public Service president and CEO Max Stier said.
He said those rules make it nearly impossible to fire poor performers or problematic employees, even when they've committed egregious violations.
"Many managers would like to get rid of problem employees and find that they have to go through a challenging process," Stier said.
A CBS News analysis of cases under review by the Merit System Protection Board (MSPB), an appeals board for federal workers, found other instances of employees who had committed seemingly fireable offenses who were later reinstated to their jobs, often with back pay and interest.
Highly publicized cases are no exception.
Five years ago, the General Services Administration (GSA) spent more than $800,000 on a lavish conference in Las Vegas . They were served 1,000 sushi rolls costing $7 each and a clown and mind reader were hired for entertainment. Two managers were initially fired but got their jobs back after the MSPB reversed the decision.
well thats the government for ya. Protecting their own at all costs.
Because someday it might be their ass on the chopping block.
This really misstates the problem. Government employees have broad civil service protection because the basic functions of government shouldn’t be subject to destabilization with every incoming administration. The government could become seriously dysfunctional if people with the institutional knowledge that makes an agency function were suddenly swept away on the whim of a presidential appointee.
Anyway, permanent employees (there are exceptions) can only be for fired cause and in accordance with the procedures. Those protections only make it difficult or impossible to discipline an employee if the manager didn’t have cause to fire someone and/or was too lazy or incompetent to document it so it could be proven. You work in conjunction with a competent HR and legal office to ensure that you document properly.
I know because I’ve fired employees with civil service protection. There are similar protections under union contracts and I’ve fired employees under them too. However, some federal agencies are so lazy that, if the agency is big enough, they will create what is essentially an elephants graveyard and send employees there to do nothing until they either die or retire rather than fire them.
If you read cases decided by the Merit Systems Protecrion Board, you’ll see that most decisions to fire are upheld and, when they aren’t, they explain what was done wrong. Anybody with even a lick of sense wouldn’t repeat the same mistake and expect a different result. HR and legal offices read these decisions and are there to advise. So, in my opinion, the only reason an agency can’t get rid of lazy or incompetent employees is because management is, itself, lazy or incompetent.
I understand what you're saying, Steve. But let's all try to remember that this man tragically died at a private, not government, nursing home due to medical "professionals'" blatant laziness and disrespect for human life. And it was caught on camera.
That doesn't natter. Just because it was a privet facility doesn't mean he was getting good care.
From what I've seen this is not a isolated incident, This one just happened o end in death and was recorded.
.....................................
Between 44,000 and 98,000 Americans die each year in U.S. hospitals due to preventable medical errors ( Institute Of Medicine , 1999).
PS: Rest in Peace Sir, Thank you for your service and we are so sorry your suffered this incident.
You, your accomplishments and your final suffering have not been forgotten. RIP
I never said that, so please don't twist my words. There are horrible and great public and private facilities. Why would you think I didn't know this when I've never shown ignorance on this topic?
No twisting intended. that was just a jumping in point. You made the rest clear in your post and i missed it. Sorry.
I don't know what they're paid, but the people in this video do not appear to be overworked. They just appear to be heartless jerks. Several companies in every field have made the decision to hire people of quality and to prioritize attitudes of service and respect for clients.
---------------------------
Considering how slowly they moved after their patient had rung for help 6 times and he clearly couldn't breathe, I'd call them nearly catatonic.
Most caregivers in nursing homes aren't RNs.
Most caregivers aren't even CNAs certified nursing assistants. Most caregivers dont even have any medical training at all except for first aid and CPR. Nursing homes may be different but most caregivers are not trained much at all.
I was reinforcing your point. Most of them are CNAs with minimal training, making not much more than minimum wage, and often working in tough conditions. They might have benefits, and they might not.
I posted stats based upon the woman interviewed in the seeded video. She's not only an RN, she's a nursing supervisor. The link I provided was based upon mean and average pay for RNs in the USA. Nothing more, nothing less.
And please don't say that "most caregivers in nursing homes aren't RNs". A great many are. Both of my parents were in nursing homes and rehab facilities numerous times. Those who oversaw their care multiple times a day were RNs. You get what you're willing to pay for.
They must have been trained in a school for ghouls. Who laughs over a dead or dying man?
Ghouls.
She was likely the only one there who was an RN. The others were probably CNAs, and probable were paid much less.
Not that it's any excuse.
I rely on facts, not assumptions. A CNA is basically the same as what was formerly called a "candy striper", a volunteer job done by high school girls after school and on weekends:
On this, we can agree.
I always add: IF you're lucky.
lol
Two different local nursing homes have had financial issues since I've moved to this town. One, I mentioned elsewhere on this discussion - paychecks were bouncing.
Another, which has since been bought out, had premium checks to pay their employees' health insurance bounce.
I doubt the owners were going hungry.
True
If anyone's going hungry in that situation I think we can all guess who it is.
The cost is nothing new. My wife and I have been there, done that with our two sets of parents when they needed private rooms. When they didn't, they were given the same care by MDs, Nurse Practitioners, RNs, LPNs, and other skilled/trained medical personnel in semi-private rooms. In all cases, the only duties that CNAs were allowed to perform were to change the bedding, bring clean towels, fluff pillows, help with feeding, and other menial tasks.
Normally, in a long term setting, the majority of nurses are LPNs. Nursing supervisors and above are normally RNs. The ones tasked with the everyday care of patients are the CNAs. There are many that really care about their patients, but then again, there are many more that don't.
Arent there LVN’s in between the RN and the CNA’s? That’s been my experience in long term care hospitals/ convalescent homes my relatives have been in.
Arent there LVN’s in between the RN and the CNA’s? That’s been my experience in long term care hospitals/ convalescent homes my relatives have been in.
Unfortunately though, In some facilities that about the best and most care they get.
Many poor, elderly, disabled and veterans suffer because of poor care each day. And that's probably more the norm.
I'm sympathetic to health care workers. My wife is an RN. But no level of pay can justify this kind of behavior. Many jobs are tough or underpaid. Whatever a person is paid, they should still try to do their best and be kind.
No matter what the job or pay......you own it if you took the job and should give l50% back to the job.
There are the doctors, the nurses and the CNAs on the floor, CNAs are required to clean shit not only on the patient, but on the floor. They do rounds for BP, oxygen, pulse, temperature as well as sugar levels. They clean colostomy bags, urine bags. They bathe, wash hair, change sheets, feed patients, and this is only the majority of duties....not all of them.
Healthcare is not an easy job. From the doctor on down it is tough work. What people don't realize is that when a patient it is not about whether you are inconvenienced, but that you get well.
The Nightingale Pledge:
Um-hum. That would be what makes nursing a profession, a calling for those who really want to help people
Unfortunately that's not always the case, many nurses and care workers are in it for a JOB.
You can sometimes see the difference.
I view nurses/other medical professionals in the same category as educators. They're highly skilled and trained, and not everyone is capable of doing these professional jobs.
Because of school budgets, millions of K-12 teachers spend hundreds of their own dollars to buy supplies for their students. Do nurses have to do this? No. Teachers are underpaid, work long hours, and they are physically and verbally abused by both students and parents.
Do nurses get verbally and physically abused? Maybe, sometimes. I'll admit that I yelled at a nurse when I was in the hospital, but that was because at 3AM she shined her flashlight on my face when I was clearly asleep to ask me if I was asleep.
I totally hear you on that. Why would anybody ask if you need a sleeping pill when you're asleep?
I was so mad at her, Kathleen! All day and all night for the 4 days I was there, medical people stood in the hallway talking/laughing loudly and I couldn't get any rest or sleep. When I FINALLY fell asleep, that nurse came in, bumped into my bed, and I've already said the rest. The next time I saw her, I did apologize, because she really was a good nurse and didn't deserve the tongue-lashing I gave her.
You yelled at her for doing her job.....
lol
I would have too.
They did the same to my dad. When I asked why she woke him up from a sound sleep to give him a sleeping pill she sai that the doctor ordered it and she had to give it to him. She had no discretion.
During my latest hospital stay I was having trouble sleeping and was unable to get anything because they could not get a doctor to OK it
To them , you where in their world, "So, just be quiet and leave us alone. We got lives to save."
lol
lol
That sounds about right
I know she was doing her job, i.e., making rounds, .... but she didn't have to shine a bright light into my face when there were dim lights on in the room. (Maybe aim the flashlight toward a wall or floor would have been better). I think I scared her more than she scared me, because when it happened, I was so startled that I sat up and yelled, "Why the F did you wake me up to ask if I was asleep? What the F's the matter with you? Get out of my room and let me sleep!" It wasn't my finest moment!
Don't forget the 5AM blood draws!
That was the good thing about the VA rehab I was in. The doctor was. always there during the day and usually there was one on call. If you had any r unusual problems, they would rush you to the ER as quickly as possible (i had to go twice)by ambulance. Every week the doctors, physical and occupational therapists, pharmacists, nursing staff rep and a social worker would come in to your room and discuss your treatment with you and would address any of your concerns.
I went thru my moms hospital bills and I was with her there at the hospital almost all the time.
I knew what doctors saw her and when. The billing sure as hell didn't match up !!!
I saw doctors standing in the hall going thru her file, they never even came onto her room and yet, she was billed for a visit. Many times.
Physical assault of nurses is coming to light at a serious occupational hazard.
ER nurses are especially likely to be assaulted. And nursing home workers are also often assaulted - dementia can cause a person to do things they wouldn't normally dream of doing. I know EMTs who joke about having their asses kicked by 95-year-old ladies, but have the bruises to back up their stories.
Lol I went in the opposite direction in a similar situation, when the nurse asked if I was asleep I answered "Yes I am asleep". I believe she stood there for a few seconds (not sure as my eyes were closed) processing my response before meandering on her way.
I spent 4 days in the Cardiac ICU .. they woke me to weigh me - she starting to remove my blankets in order to get an accurate weight .... ugghhh I was not very nice, I made her take 2 weights with and without blankets... I do not know if I was weighed again : )
I was a bad patient though - I would disconnect my heart monitor, oxygen etc and go pee - made them insane ... Ooops!
After my stroke I was a very good girl and caused no waves - I did not bitch at all about being woken up ... was just happy to be there to be woken up...
I have never lived on less sleep than when I was in the hospital after a c-section. Of course, my son woke me for feedings every hour or so. The nurses told me babies don't have an appetite for a few days. He didn't get the memo. Then, for 24 hours, they had to take my vitals and check my incision every hour. Said check involved pushing down really hard on my incision, until I was about to cry. One nurse was a lot rougher than the others. I wanted to kick her.
After 24 hours, it was just the baby waking me up. And the cafeteria workers, showing up at 5 AM to ask what I wanted for lunch. SERIOUSLY?!
I was never so happy to leave a place in my life.
After the 4 am weight checks, the 2 am CAT scans, etc.
It makes for a great story now though...lol
This goes on in all hospitals and rehab facilities. When my dad was transferred from the hospital to the rehab facility for a knee replacement, the idiots didn't read his charts and overdosed him on his blood pressure meds and stopped his heart. If my mom wasn't present, he would have died.
We have known for quite a while that the VA sucks. But this is a problem across the country and even in private hospitals.
It's amazing there aren't more lawsuits. I'm glad Iv'e avoided hospitals for so long - knock on wood.
As for the VA we need firing power and lots of firings!
I dont know for sure but, They also probably could use more funding and start hiring better staff as well.
Good help doesn't come cheap. crappy help does.
It isn't money, we are spending more on the VA than ever. Out of control bureaucracy, unaccountability and mismanagement is the problem
What ever is the problem our veterans are not getting the benefits of good health care nation wide.
If they are getting enough money and mishandling it then fire their asses. And hire better managers.
I couldn't agree more. I could fix it in concept real quick.
Our VA card should cover us at any hospital of our choice so Vets like me who live in more rural areas don't have to travel 100+ miles to find a VA facility.
Give the VA hospitals some competition. If they fail shutt them down
Does the funding work that way, though? Such that if you use your VA card at a non-VA hospital, that hospital gets paid, and the VA loses funding?
I actually like the idea in principle. Our local vets have to travel about an hour and 15 minutes to the nearest VA hospital. For more routine needs, there's a VA clinic about half an hour away. It's still hard for older folks to get transportation to the VA. There is no public transportation here.
My dad could receive care at the VA, but the three that are closest to him are all about a 2-hour drive away, so he sees a private physician. He also said that when he took a friend for care at the VA a few years ago, it was an all-day thing - 2-hour drive, followed by sitting at the hospital for hours, no matter what his appointment time was, then a 2-hour drive back. The friend was working at the time, and eventually had to forego care at the VA, because he was missing an entire day of work every week for something that would take half a day or less at a private facility that was closer.
No it doesn't. That's my point, it should. As bad as the private healthcare system is, for the most part it's generally much much better than public systems like the VA.
I am thinking there are plenty of suits that 'we' never hear of ... hospitals, rehabs etc - I believe are settling rather than fighting, in order to avoid bad PR (nursing homes I have NO clue about - my experience with one of them was not good, the staff kept stealing my grandmothers depends, as well as any snacks we brought her - we got her out of there ASAP!
The good acts easily outweigh the bad in many facilities like this. I have a parent in assisted care right now and for the most part the folks that work are angels doing a very tough job. Takes a very special person to do it at a high level each day.
But the bad ones do tend to stick more than the good ones
I agree. MOST of the people working in these facilities really do care. The fact is though many also get burnt out and care less with time.
The VA has made progress over the last 6 years or so. I have been using the VA since 1991 and while it does still have it's problems, they are making efforts to better serve vets. For example. Once a year I have to go have my feet checked because I am diabetic. The closest VA hospital to me is 60 miles away, so, with the veterans choice program, I can make an appointment with a local podiatrist and the VA will pay for it. It's not a perfect solution, but it does help vets who don't live near a hospital. The VA knows they are understaffed, so farming out the basic stuff, (like a check up), does free up resources for vets that have urgent needs.
Study Suggests Medical Errors Now Third Leading Cause of Death in the U.S.
The family in this case was lucky that the video camera was there. However, equally disturbing to me is the fact that the nursing home thinks it can put people under surveillance (if done without consent) in a setting that constitutes the most intrusive invasion of privacy possible. Some sicko employee could turn this kind of surveillance into perverse entertainment.
If I wanted my family member under video surveillance, I might prefer that I could do it myself. There are plenty of YouTube videos of people who captured abuse in a nursing home with their own secret video camera. Maybe employees have a valid objection to being under surveillance. I’d like to see the issue debated a bit more before I make up my mind.
That’s what the article says.
“If not for a secret camera left by the family we wouldn't know.”
You’re right but the staff didn’t agree to be under surveillance and I would probably object to people secretly watching me just because someone’s else needs to be watched. This still raises problems in my mind concerning the appropriate use of surveillance.
How sad. Why do awful people take jobs where they are expected to serve needy people?
It’s the perfect job for an awful person. You can beat up and torment defenseless people and some of them won’t even remember what happened. If bruises show up, then the person must have fallen down or did it to themselves. If the person claims you did it, then just laugh and tell the family member that “yesterday she said Robin Hood did it.”
There is a few things standing in those people's way... People like me that turn their asses in .. toot sweet
That and the many laws that can and are enforced regularly.
The people at Adult Protective Services dont screw around much !!
Me too. I would have to restrain myself from physically assaulting the staff if I saw them assault my mother who couldn’t defend herself.
I would have to restrain myself from physically assaulting the staff if I saw them assault my mother
At work I have never seen any physical abuse it's basically been neglected I've seen and reported. However with my mom...
I wouldn't restrain myself and you probably wouldn't either. I'll be damned if I would stand there and let anyone physically abuse my mom, or any other patent for that matter.
The abuse I was seeing when I had my mom in a facility was verbal. That was enough ! She was moved the next day !
I have some patients who are nursing home residents, whose entire families have moved out of the area. They have nobody to check up on them, nobody to advocate for them. Some of them don't even know their families have left. I shudder to think what probably happens to them.
Last thanksgiving, a man broke into my house and stole my two iPads and my work iPhone and was armed with my sword and combat knife. Unfortunately, for him, I came home and took him into custody armed with a bamboo pole. Six police cars and 12 cops were on the scene. They think I’m “unusual.” Last night, a police car rolled through the alley, stopped and asked if I had seen six black guys in masks. I could telll that he suddenly recognized me as I recognized him. He said they’re just suspicious characters and not wanted for anything so there’s nothing to worry about. I said if they leave me alone, I’ll leave them alone. He smiled and added “if you see these guys, I hope that you will not get involved so PLEASE just call us first.” If someone attacks my mother, then there’s a good possibility that I’ll become “unusual” again. Lol.
Me too cause in a few years, I'll be one of them. I have no family left alive.
LOL
I have one son, and I'm the oldest of my siblings. I also live pretty far from my extended family, so yeah, I get ya.
My plan is to live like my grandmother did. She ate well. slept regularly and was very active. She accepted the world changed and was OK with that,
She was active, healthy and happy till 6 months before she dropped dead at the ripe old age of 93.
I saw how she was at a young age, it was a big contrast to my parents, It wasn't till I was lolder that I appreciated why.
mom and dad dead at 76 .. Unbending, unhealthy and unhappy for years before death,
grandma growing, healthy and happy till 93 and died 6 months later.
Man am I glad I chose to model myself after grandma !!
LOL
Whats really cool is, the older I get, the happier I seem.
My maternal grandmother was old before her years. She was widowed at a fairly young age, with 8 children to raise in rural WV. I guess that'll age you pretty quickly. I don't remember her not being old, and acting old.
My paternal grandmother was different - always laughing, as active as her arthritic knees would let her be, always spoiling a grandkid or 3.
Both died in their 80s, but my dad's mother lived a much happier life.
A local nursing home was shut down for months when a flood that required an evacuation of its residents brought to light loads of violations. One of my patients worked there, and I already suspected there were problems from stories she told, as well as the fact that her paycheck would occasionally bounce. She told us that she often fed residents who had plates of food left in front of them to sit, even though the caregivers knew that their condition made it impossible for them to feed themselves.
So, they flooded one night, and none of their regular employees would even come in to help with the evacuation. Employees of other nursing homes showed up to help the emergency workers with the evacuation, and those employees apparently made some Facebook posts about what they saw that were soon deleted. The nursing home shut down for about 6 weeks to clean and fix the violations.
At work, I see a fair number of nursing home patients, and the condition they're in varies wildly. Patients from some of the better facilities are in pretty good shape - clean, dressed nicely, and accompanied by attendants who obviously care about them. But some have neglected painful infections. Some are left in our waiting room for hours while the driver of the van disappears - and many of those have trouble sitting upright for any length of time. Some never make it to their appointments, because the driver calls in sick, or just forgets, so whatever problem the appointment was made to address is never actually addressed.
I hope never to place my parents in a nursing home.
I hope you never have too as well. But if you do research before signing and go often and ask lots of questions to both your parent and the staff. Make sure what they tell you sinks up. If not watch even more closely. As you said there are good ones and there are bad ones. IF you find you made a mistake and chose a bad one.... change to a better facility ASAP.
I went thru this. Its worth watching, asking and moving your loved one if needed. There really are good facilities with specially trained caring people that can do what I couldn't. I was glad I finally found her the right one.
I had cared for her for yeas but in the end her medical condition got to the point she need more. RIP mom
I know which facilities locally are good, and which ones aren't. I would trust the better ones, so long as I visited often, which I would, of course.
My hope is that when the time comes I can care for them at home, either my home or theirs, with the help of my siblings and in-home health care workers, if possible.
That is my fear. You're a good son to do as much as you could for her.
Thanks Kath. It was a long tough time for both of us, may she RIP.
Unfortunately I have gotten used to death. My entire immediate family is deceased. It does make me appreciate my life so much more though.
For some it may have had the opposite effect and I am so grateful that for myself it made me more appreciative of my own existence and time I have on this planet enjoying my senses. I take a breath from time to time for my younger dead brother and say "this one's for you Dave"
may they all RIP.
Time to move on.
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Kath, I'm glad to see you still stopping by here. Like I had told one of the other people here. You are one of the good people that come here and you would have been missed.
Yes that would be helpful.
I agree, if the parents health permits, at home is the way to go. Especially if you have help !!!
I cared for my mom for years, with very little damn help from even my younger brother who was still alive at the time. NO ONE ever told me I could get what they call respite care for mom. In all that time all those doctors visits and NO ONE ever mentioned anything about respite care for mom.
I now tell people all the time . I've even stopped elderly neighbors as I was driving by to tell them about it when I knew they could use it. Man that would have been so nice.....
Good luck with your parents !! May they life long healthy happy lives.
So far, so good. Dad turns 70 right after Christmas, and still plays 18 holes of golf every day that the weather allows, even 36 some days. Mom is 66 and still able to keep up with the youngest grandson.
One of my pet peeves in the end of life healthcare "system" is leaches.
I see a lot of medically disabled elderly people many time they will need someone around 24 /7 so often times a family member or a trusted friend will move in to Help. Many times this friend or family member is HELPING themselves to a free lunch including room and board and anything else they can manipulate out of their new host.
I call them leaches. Even if that wasn't their original intent.
IMO...Leaches are sickening creatures !!!
Leeches are bad but the outright thieves tick me off more. One of my cousins was actually caught stealing from my hospice grandmother a little before she passed. That cousin doesn't get invited to family gatherings anymore.
When my maternal grandmother was dying, she signed over the family farm to my aunt. None of the other seven surviving siblings got the slightest bit of it. My aunt's husband made sure the deed was in his name, too, so it's effectively his now, unless she outlives him. He has cheated on her, verbally abused her, and was accused by a cousin of rape, and he'll probably inherit my family's land because he and my aunt talked grandma into deeding it to them (really him).
So Sad.
Greed is an ugly monster.
Fortunately Karma also exists.
Was/is there a chance of contesting the will ?
That was something that came up once when an uncle left me some money, we had to place an add in the paper saying something specific and wait .. o make sure it wasn't contested .. law stuff I had no idea...lol
She signed it over before she died, so it wasn't part of her estate. Outside of the land, her "estate" amounted to about $4,000. Not worth ruining family relations fighting over. Just sucks that it will go to an asshole like him.
So the leaches were smart ones and took it over.
I'm so sorry to hear that. It's nasties like that where ya have no control or recourse that I have to rely on Karma to correct. I have a life to enjoy.
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Not to discount that at all because my story doesn't. but I had a brother that got the same inheritance I did. He did squat to help with my parents and squandered his inheritance within a year. Mine set me up for retirement.
The really sad part is, now my brother doesn't need his anyway he's dead too.
(karma ?)
Yup. Grandma always said she'd never leave her property to that daughter, because she knew my uncle would end up with it. In the end that's exactly what happened.
Well, it was hard to get to, anyway, and the house is gone. The mineral rights would have helped the other siblings out, but they're all doing ok.
Many years ago, while I was going to college I spent 2 years as a CNA in a long term care facility. Thankless hard work, but rewarding in the sense that you are helping care for someone at the end of their life, (in most cases anyway). While I remember just about every resident I cared for in those two years, (after I got my degree, I kept working there, just not as a CNA), but there was one lady that really touched me. Her name was Maxine. She was in her early 90's when I met her and she got confused quite a bit, but remembered her earlier years with perfect clarity. She told me about her kids, her husband, her job, (she packed peaches in crates for 40 years). All of her kids had passed away as had her husband and all of her siblings so she was for the most part alone. Every morning, I would get her coffee, then go and visit with her and listen to her stories from her past. Absolutely fascinating stuff. This went on for years, my grandparents had long since passed, so I guess I saw Maxine as, "Grandma", to a point), even after I graduated. She would still insist I help her get dressed, brush her hair, put on her jewelry, etc. One day, I stopped in to see her on a Friday, I was about to head out for the weekend and Maxine was really upset, so I went to talk to her and she insisted that she was going to die later that night. So, I clocked out, and went and sat with her. We talked for a while, then she fell asleep and I thought I would take off, but she woke up. She grabbed my hand, pulled me to give her a hug and she died, right then and there. She was a DNR so I just sat there for a few minutes then called the nurse. She died at peace, and she wasn't alone. Not slapping myself on the back here, I just did what I thought was right and we should all be so lucky to have someone with us when we shed our mortal coil.
.
Healthcare isn't for everyone, again, not slapping myself on the back, but you really need to have some compassion for people other than yourself. Something else you need? A damn good sense of humor because you deal with a LOT of sadness.
You gave her a priceless gift.
I'm glad that Maxine wasn't alone when she took her last breath and that you were with her.
I’ll pat you on the back for going above and beyond the job. All of us must die and it would be of great comfort for me to know that, when my mother passed and I couldn’t be there, she didn’t die alone.
A story. A little before my grandmother’s death, she kept saying she was going to die and started making plans for her own funeral. I didn’t pay that much attention to her because she was always saying that she was going to die. Then she started bugging me about promising to be a pallbearer, along with my other cousins. She said that she wanted me, in particular, to be a pallbearer even if the others couldn’t because she was closer to me than she was to my counsins. I told her that I couldn’t promise anything because I might be too distraught to do it so her plan fell through. She was mad about it. Then, one day, she died.
Her funeral was in her home town, an 7 hour drive away and I got there a little late. Everybody was already in the church and the hearse carrying my grandmother’s body had just arrived. I was the only person outside. As I was getting ready to go into the church, the driver called out to me and said “hey buddy, we’re a man short, would you mind giving us a hand with the casket?” I did. On the way out of the church and to the gravesite, the driver said “we’re still a man short, so I hope you don’t mind giving us a hand again.” So I ended up being a pallbearer anyway and I couldn’t help but think that my grandmother was looking down at me saying “Gotcha!”
Great story! And weirdly similar to my grandmother. My grandmother had been saying for YEARS that she was going to die because she had a brain tumor. Well, the family took it with a grain of salt and just re-assured her that she was fine and that she just got a little bit confused from time to time. Fast forward a few years and I was in the Middle East for Desert Storm.. Well, I get a telegram, (LONG before email, text, etc..), and that I needed to call home ASAP. So, I got to a phone and called my mother. She told me, "I have some bad news...Grandma died last week, (again, telegrams are not NEARLY as fast as email and text today). I replied, "Oh wow, that sucks, I loved Grandma, what did she die of?" Loooong pause....."Brain tumor..." I couldn't help it, as sad as I was, I laughed my ass off as did my mother. I could just imagine grandma looking down and saying, "Yea, how confused am I now you dicks!"
Yep..........
Thanks for sharing. I also chuckled
Ok, that made me laugh, too, and now I'm sure I'm going to hell when I die.
Thank you and thank your for sharing your story. She had a good friend indeed.
All of my immediate family is dead, too. The only person in my family to go into a nursing home, (except for my great grandfather), was my mother. I couldn't lift her, I couldn't feed her, etc. She needed full time care and I couldn't. She died the next day. That less than 24 hour period of time cost $800 after medicare paid some. She was so mad at me for not being physically able to care for her. Nursing home care costs a fortune, and my state, KY, began to refuse to build more several years ago, so there is a distinct lack of beds. I have looked at a bunch of them, and I would not want to put my dog in them. EGAD.
I hope I have the courage to blow my own head off before I have to go to one.
At that stage sometimes they are not reasonable. My mom was the same way about stuff that once she would have understood. It may have been more the "illness" reacting than the person.
Something else I considered about my mom was her "acting out" was a way of asserting what little power she had left in the world.
She had been mad at me for years and years. I took it as par for the course, but there was nothing I could do. NOTHING.
Good for you. Reality is what it is. Smart move.
((Dowser))
I wish you'd enjoyed a loving relationship with your mother.
I tried. I tried and tried and tried. I know I contributed to the problem, but I also had to defend myself. It was the worst disappointment of my life.
I know you tried. I'm not sure you contributed to the problem. I think there are just some people who just can't accept others for who they are. I don't think you're one of those people.
My maternal grandmother seems to have been the same sort of person as your mother. Her relationship with her daughters was...difficult. I know it hurt my mother and some of her sisters deeply, and those issues were never resolved before she died. She was a hard, demanding woman, and she played favorites with her children, very obviously. I hated that she made my mother feel unloved. She deserved so much better.
And so do you.
Sandy, thank you. I don't think she even knew she was doing it, to be honest. My greatest relief is that it is over. Now, it's time to heal... I hope!
as always the problem with suicide is the chance of failing and ending up worse off than you were.
But, it happens.
I have a .357 Magnum automatic. One shot to the heart should do it, I would think... I hope, anyway.
Well saying good luck somehow seems strange.
lol
But good luck, I guess. Not for me, I'm gonna die in my sleep.
lol
This has all caused me to reflect on age differences, especially in light of the Roy Moore flap. My parents were nearly the same age but my father-in-law, now that I think about it, was probably 20 years older than his wife. Although my wife and I are the same age, her parents were a generation ahead of my mine. Her father was a very rational man and her mother was a total airhead. I assume that he married her, in part, because she was pretty in her day and had the biggest boobs that her frame could hold and not fall forward. Haha
One day, with no warning, her father got sick and fell into a coma. He was on life support and the hospital told his wife that she needed to make a decision by the next morning on whether to pull the plug. She was in a dither and upset my wife who upset me. I still don’t know what she decided to do because, the next morning, he died on his own and she was spared. He wasn’t the type to live in a nursing home (and he didn’t) and he never burdened his wife with any heavy decisions (and his last act was to leave her unburdened).
LOL
I am working with a couple that is just like that. 22 year age difference. He is the disabled one and very old, his concern is still her well being, but she is basically still a burden on his life. She doesn't do shit for the man and probably never did from what I have gathered. She must have been great in bed is all I can figure out. But knowing them... I doubt even that.