We’re witnessing the wholesale looting of America - GOP "Smash and Grab"
https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2017/12/19/16786006/looting-of-america
Over the course of 2017, both in Congress and in the executive branch, we have watched the task of government devolve into the full-scale looting of America.
Politicians are making decisions to enrich their donors — and at times themselves personally — with a reckless disregard for any kind of objective policy analysis or consideration of public opinion.
A businessman president who promised — repeatedly — that he would not personally benefit from his own tax proposals is poised to sign into law a bill that’s full of provisions that benefit him and his family. Congressional Republicans who spent years insisting that “dynamic scoring” would capture the deficit-reducing power of tax cuts are now plowing ahead with a bill so fast that they don’t have time to get one done, because it turns out they can’t be bothered to meet their own targets.
Meanwhile, in the background an incredible flurry of regulatory activity is happening out of public view — much of it contrary to free market principles but all of it lucrative for big business and Trump cronies.
Throughout the 2016 campaign, the political class talked a lot about “norms” and how Donald Trump was violating them all. He brushed off fact-checkers, assailed the media, went on Twitter tirades against his critics, and dabbled in racism. Since taking office, his norm busting has spread. Members of Congress who under other circumstances might be constrained by shame, custom, or the will of their constituents have learned from Trump’s election that you can get away with more than we used to think....
Republicans love bank bailouts now
The tax bill pending in Congress this week is, naturally, front of mind and unquestionably represents the linchpin of the 2017 looting agenda. But in some ways, the clearest example of the difference between a regime of corporate looting and one of free market ideology came on the lower-profile topic of financial regulatory policy, where the Trump administration quietly signaled a major shift last month....
...Under Trump, the reality is that neither markets nor bureaucrats are going to be doing any disciplining.
In the short term, of course, lax banking regulation will almost certainly pay off in the form of higher bank profits and stock valuations. The problem is when the crisis hits down the road. But that’s exactly the triumph of short-term thinking that pervades everything Trump does, from debt-financed tax cuts for the rich to disinvestment in education, rollback of environment regulations, and approaches to the telecom sector that prioritize the profitability of today’s incumbent businesses over tomorrow’s regulators.
Across the board, it’s about letting whoever’s powerful now squeeze as much out as they can without worrying too much about the consequences — like enormous, deficit-financed tax cuts passed with no regard for budgetary or economic effects.
The strange death of tax reform
The tax bill is another case in point. It’s poised to pass Congress this week, and the swamp is overflowing with perks.
Somewhere in its murky origins, “tax reform,” as conceived by is Republican authors, was supposed to be a policy-driven bill aimed at creating a simpler and fairer tax code that would generate broadly superior economic outcomes for most people — a normal governing objective even if it was always the case that substantial disagreement would exist over the merits of marginal corporate tax rate cuts as a growth-boosting policy.
But along the way, virtually all of the high-minded aspirations were dropped and all of the normal aspects of congressional process broken — to the point where the bill’s leading architects won’t even mention the policy changes that are at the heart of the bill. In the end, instead of taking on the special interests as promised, it gives away the store to almost every lobby shop in town — with last-minute additions that personally enrich the Trump family and a decent chunk of the members of Congress voting for it.
Once upon a time, Republicans had a set of clear promises about what they called “tax reform.” The idea was to produce a simpler tax code, with fewer brackets and fewer deductions so that a typical individual could fill it out on a postcard....
...Neither the House nor the Senate came within a trillion dollars of hitting Brady’s deficit target, so the conference committee charged with reconciling the bills didn’t bother to wait for a dynamic score at all, and both houses are expected to pass the bill before the JCT can finish its analysis. The House bill slashed the top tax rate a little and the Senate bill slashed it a little more, so the conference committee compromised on a bigger rate cut than either had proposed.
Meanwhile, after all the months of work, Republicans ultimately settled on not actually eliminating any significant deductions or loopholes after all.
Why? Well it certainly seems to have had something to do with the orgy of lobbying that, according to the New York Times, led more than half of the city’s 11,000 registered lobbyists to report having worked on the tax bill. The swamp is running wild.
The committee also created a big new tax cut for owners of real estate LLCs — i.e., for Donald Trump’s family. Sen. Bob Corker (R-TN) also stands to personally benefit from this provision, leading to early speculation that it’s the reason he flip-flopped and decided to back a bill whose deficit impact he’d earlier deplored. Corker denies this, offering the absurd defense that the new provision can’t possibly have driven the change since he hasn’t even read the bill he’s now decided to support .
Members swapping votes to secure special deals for their constituents is nothing new in the political process, but getting special deals for themselves personally is quite the innovation. And the ultra-rushed process means we have almost no time to kick the tires on how many new loopholes have been created and who stands to gain from them.
The new political dishonesty
Politicians have never been renowned for their honesty and have always liked to spin their policies in the most positive light possible. But not only does Trump lie a lot more than his predecessors — a New York Times analysis found six times as many lies in Trump’s first 10 months in office as across Obama’s eight years — but the Trump-era GOP has grown terrifyingly comfortable with a kind of large-scale misrepresentation of what their legislation says that’s totally unprecedented.
Speaker Paul Ryan’s official list of five policy highlights in the tax bill, for example, includes one point that is merely preserving the status quo on mortgage interest, and totally neglects to mention the corporate tax cut that is its centerpiece.
Republicans’ Obamacare repeal bills ultimately didn’t pass, but they also had this characteristic.
Reasonable people can disagree, for example, on whether it’s a good idea to cut Medicaid spending. But the GOP wrote a series of bills that entailed large cuts in Medicaid spending and then sent the secretary of health and human services out on television to say they weren’t proposing to cut Medicaid spending .
Not every member of the party was as brazen as that. But Trump and Ryan have completely dissolved the norm against dishonesty to the point where there are no longer any whistleblowers in the Republican caucus or the world of conservative media. You just say whatever you want, and dole out favors to your friends — moving at such a rapid pace that the country’s ability to process what’s happening gets overwhelmed.
There’s so much happening that we don’t notice
Back in April, Megan Wilson reported that there were 1,500 new lobbying registrations and a huge surge in lobbying revenue as firms moved to snatch up new staff with connections to Trump and key congressional Republicans in order to take advantage of a new bonanza of opportunities.
And it’s paid off enormously. While Americans are fascinated by major legislative drama, endless sexual abuse scandals, endless Trump-Russia scandals, and countless inappropriate presidential Twitter outbursts, key regulators — almost uniformly drawn from the ranks of corporate America — are doling out favors at a pace that boggles the mind.
Most people know about the Federal Communications Commission rescinding network neutrality rules, for example. But they’re also rescinding rules on overconcentration in the broadcast television industry , while Congress has moved to let ISPs sell their users’ private browsing data .
Trump’s Labor Department has been working overtime by making it easier for employers to steal servers’ tips but harder for workers to organize against chain restaurants . They’ve made it easier for employers to get away with not paying overtime , and while stories like Trump’s effort to destroy the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau or his unprecedented shrinkage of protected national monuments at least garnered a couple of days of coverage, most of this labor stuff has passed in the night.
Some of this is dictated by free market ideology, of course. But the coal industry bailout Rick Perry is pushing doesn’t fit that bill, nor does the Transportation Department’s drive to reduce transparency in airline fees .
And while it’s unlikely that the famously detail-averse president is actually paying attention to the nuts and bolts of DOT rulemaking, he is absolutely setting the tone from the top.
The looter-in-chief
It takes a lot more than Donald Trump to orchestrate the kind of feeding frenzy that’s currently playing out in Washington. Nothing about this would work if not for the fact that hundreds of Republican Party members of Congress wake up each morning and decide anew that they are indifferent to the myriad financial conflicts of interest in which Trump and his family are enmeshed. Moral and political responsibility for the looting ultimately rests on the shoulders of the GOP members of Congress who decided that the appropriate reaction to Trump’s inauguration was to start smashing and grabbing as much as possible for themselves and their donors rather than uphold their constitutional obligations.
But it really is true that in this case, the fish rots from the head.
Trump has always operated in businesses in legal and ethical gray areas — during the transition, he had to pay out a $20 million fraud settlement arising from a fake university he used to operate, and the fraudulent part wasn’t even that the university was fake. His all-purpose excuse for shady, greedy behavior was, to quote the man himself, “that makes me smart.”
Yet in his business career he did once undertake solemn obligations to people other than himself, as the chief executive officer of a publicly traded company, Trump Hotels & Casino Resorts.
Trump never turned THCR into a profitable business. But he did profit mightily from running it , bilking shareholders by transferring his personal debts onto the corporate balance sheet, having the public company pay extravagant sums to buy Trump-branded goods from separate companies that he owned personally, and of course paying himself a lavish salary for his troubles.
This is looting on the corporate level , tunneling financial assets out of the company the shareholders control into entities controlled by the CEO. Like many things Trump did over the years, it’s probably illegal, but enforcement of white-collar criminal law is spotty. Trump was fined by the Federal Trade Commission and separately by the Securities and Exchange Commission , and then separately again by the Treasury Department’s financial crimes division , but not in ways that were serious enough to put him out of business.
And in truth, we have no clear picture of the full extent of Trump’s personal corruption, since in violation of decades’ worth of tradition he’s refused to give us a clear sense of his income streams or financial interests. It would be trivially easy for congressional Republicans to force Trump to disclose his tax returns, but instead of holding his feet to the fire, they are taking their cues from him — even though many of them spent the 2016 campaign openly recognizing that he was unfit for office.
Trump’s victory, rather than inspiring a bipartisan movement to check the new president’s worst impulses, caused the party to snap, with as many factions as possible reaching to toss a rock and grab what they can as long as the party lasts.
The country is left only to hope that it doesn’t last too long.
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It would be trivially easy for congressional Republicans to force Trump to disclose his tax returns, but instead of holding his feet to the fire, they are taking their cues from him — even though many of them spent the 2016 campaign openly recognizing that he was unfit for office.
Trump’s victory, rather than inspiring a bipartisan movement to check the new president’s worst impulses, caused the party to snap, with as many factions as possible reaching to toss a rock and grab what they can as long as the party lasts.
If you want Trump's returns so badly, why not just ask Harry Reid for them once and for all and be done with it?
Or maybe you could elect reps to pass such a law.
Donald Rump and his gang of thugs have put a For Sale sign on the White House lawn.
The sign doesn't say for sale, it says D.C Dump site per order real estate mogul tRump.
The real looting is going on by blue states with high state and local taxes that take from red states in the form of deductions. Blue staters like Jerry Brown and de Blasio will have to actually justify their taxes to their residents now.
Blue states dont get their share of federal funds so they need to have higher local taxes.
I see none of the conservatives who are replying have anything to say about the republican looting spree ,as described in the article, led by the criminal in chief President* Trump.
Sure wish you whiners would elect some representatives who would stop giving your money away. Why don't you?
The idea is almost too asinine to warrant a reply. Why not make the argument that Mike Pence is really a Sith Lord? It's more realistic.
There are 20 links in the seeded article. None of them refer to a 'Sith Lord'.
Ignoring every analysts determinations to the contrary is a profound display, too bad it has no basis.
Total nonsense. The vast majority of Blue States pay more in taxes than they take in entitlements or deductions while most Red States are underwater taking far more in entitlements and deductions than they pay in taxes. Without Blue States financing Red States nearly all Republican majority States would go bankrupt.
Cue the crickets.
Of course red states take more. They actually have borders to protect and spend their resources apprehending illegals. Blue states just let them do what they want.
Meh, an article from Vox, a heavily left leaning media outlet. Simply more left wing instructions from the hive for the whiner drones. Rant on you crazy whiner drones .
Trump has always operated in businesses in legal and ethical gray areas — during the transition, he had to pay out a $20 million fraud settlement arising from a fake university he used to operate, and the fraudulent part wasn’t even that the university was fake. His all-purpose excuse for shady, greedy behavior was, to quote the man himself, “that makes me smart.”
Yet in his business career he did once undertake solemn obligations to people other than himself, as the chief executive officer of a publicly traded company, Trump Hotels & Casino Resorts.
Trump never turned THCR into a profitable business. But he did profit mightily from running it , bilking shareholders by transferring his personal debts onto the corporate balance sheet, having the public company pay extravagant sums to buy Trump-branded goods from separate companies that he owned personally, and of course paying himself a lavish salary for his troubles.
Is Donald Trump a crook? Yes or no?
Depends on how they got it.
Donald Trump once hired illegal immigrants to tear down the interior of a building he was going to raze in order to develop the property. He paid the illegal immigrants a sub standard wage, didn't provide safety equipment, and then refused to completely pay them. They had to take him to court to get paid.
That's a crook to me. If you want to call him a good businessman that's your problem.
That will make such a nice anecdote for historians to include in the presidential biographies of President* Trump that American schoolchildren will read one day. Don't you agree?
Instead of the traditional "George Washington could not tell a lie", the future schoolbooks will read
"Donald Trump could not tell the truth"
Who was your reply to as you replied to yourself?
Anyone who reads it.
Maybe the illegals should've been tearing down buildings in their own country.
Well, according to Merriam Webster a "Crook" is defined as:
So since he has not been convicted of fraud or some other criminal practice and in this country one is still considered innocent until proven guilty, the answer is obviously no.
Honestly, it's hard to understand why you seem to have such a hard time getting that. Did you do too many hallucinogenic drugs in the 60's and 70's? Too many magic mushrooms perhaps
No it doesn't.
You're just full of hate and sour grapes because he inherited money from daddy and you didn't.
Poor thing .... daddy didn't leave you rich so now you hate on all those that did inherit a money like Trump.
Trump paid himself $39 million from a subsidiary funded by investors that he set up promising subcontractors he would pay them when the work was done. When the work was done, he had his subsidiary file bankruptcy so he only had to pay the hard working subcontractors pennies on the dollar he owed them while he walked off with millions in profit for supposed "consulting" on the project.
Trump is worse than a criminal. When you're being robbed by a burglar or a mugger you know you're being robbed, Trump stabbed his investors and contractors in the back then used slimy lawyers and lax bankruptcy laws to avoid prosecution. And he didn't just do it once, he's done it SIX times in just two decades.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2016/live-updates/general-election/real-time-fact-checking-and-analysis-of-the-first-presidential-debate/fact-check-has-trump-declared-bankruptcy-four-or-six-times/?utm_term=.a0eb07c6e93b
None of that changes two of the truly cogent point in this discussion:
One, he is innocent until proven guilty and
Two. he has not been convicted of any crimes of that nature.
The justice system does not care about your partisan biases against Trump
The same can be said of Hillary Clinton. Where's your defense of her? Just admit Trump can do no wrong in the eyes of his witless supporters who have said he could shoot someone in the street and they'd still support him. It's just partisan politics and has nothing to do with any actual crime, it's his character that his opponents view as despicable, and his character is one of screwing over those who believe in him, so it will be interesting to watch as he slowly twists the knife in the back of the low and middle income Americans who have mindlessly supported him.
I wasn't aware this thread was about Hillary. If you want to discuss her, i suggest you start another thread about her.
Conservatives inject Hillary wherever they want, but someone pointing out their hypocrisy by bringing her up and now it's "This isn't about Hillary!". Conservative Republican hypocrisy knows no bounds.
So now you're using the "two wrongs make a right" defense eh?
Be happy to have a rational debate with you but since it appears you aren't interested in doing that i'll move along now.
Hope you have a great day and Merry Christmas to you and yours!
Where in Poland should they have started?
Nor does it care about your partisan bias FOR Trump.
Wait, so you're a Conservative now?
True and still not convicted of anything. False equivalencies.
How can my comment be both true AND a false equivalency?
Looting means I get to keep more of what I earn. I love it finally some looters I can support.
trump is looting americans by letting them keep more of their money... LOL
that, is simply... too damn funny
the death of the obama "mandate to buy a product?
priceless
Supply Side is now unleashed.
You people that believe you'll keep more of your money-------------Hold tight to your wallet or purse.
Lower tax rates = lower taxes, and more money in our pockets.
We shall see. It all depends on how much you make and where your assets lie.
And give ever larger campaign contributions to get even more favorable legislation, see how smoothly the grease makes the wheel turn.
And what state you live in.
By taking most of the gains of the economy and not paying for it. If 1% take all the growth, they are the beneficiaries of our collective infrastructure. This bill actually makes that even worse.
If you lived her in 84, it was a totally different state then. Apples and oranges.
They need to so the red states don't implode.
Please, we are invested in the stock market and I've got a degree in Business Admin/Finance. We are in the fucking group that has benefited from the market, but I see the big picture, not just my little piece of the pie. There are a lot of ways to address tax reform, including lowering corporate rates. This bill is total shit, and we are all shortly going to pay the price. I'm not stupid enough to think it all just keep going up, because soon it will start spiraling down. This isn't for most Americans at all, and you can't spin that because ours phases out really soon. But that deficit will go up (all economists agree) and cuts they force on us will come to our programs, just like they all do now. This bill was for their donors and themselves, and the detriment will all be on the little guy, including small businesses, by the way. Instead of lecturing us why don't you refute your policies in Kansas and explain why that won't happen to the whole country.
So how do the ones that actually get back more than they pay in, get such favorable legislation. Require and DEMAND "MORE" ?
See how the "Liberal" wheel is loosing it's "Grease" ?
Well, any extra you make, you can donate it to the U.S. Government via the IRS. Especially, if you feel that badly about being able to keep more of your money.
I think you've got it backward. The tax bill is a step towards stopping the looting of Americans.
I'm an accountant, and no it doesn't. It helps some, while killing others. That is not a fair bill.
Killing? Really?
How does it "kill" anyone from a taxation standpoint?
Your house burgled or your car stolen won't kill you either so I guess it is OK.
What are you talking about?
Are you okay?
I'm looking forward to this tax bill becoming law, and I'm just a middle income guy making about 65k a year.. I live in Florida, so the State income tax thing means nothing to me, and the increased deductions are going to mean that I'll get a couple thousand returned, instead of a few hundred.
Don't worry, you'll be screwed by the changes to healthcare, including medicaid and that mandate repeal. There are so many consequences to this bill that aren't even known yet, but economists agree its a clusterfuck that explodes the deficit and those rosy gop projections are imaginary.
It will kill those who live in areas where they pay high property taxes, which in turn will cause a downturn in home ownership and the housing market.
Wait till we see the increases to the deficit, courtesy of the tax breaks that the corporations are getting. Heck they didn't lose a single deduction. Ain't that grand for the average guy.
Yeah, actually it will turn out to be GREAT for the average guy! Pay raises for Taco Bell employee's!!
My understanding is there is still a 10k property tax write off. That's a lot of write off. I imagine that will cover most middle class folks in all but the highest property taxed urban areas.
Am i wrong?
I would agree if that were the case, but from past performances, it is not.
Corporations act in their own interest. They will pocket the money. There will be no trickle down. We have tried this before and and it failed.
That depends on what state they live in.
Do you understand the structure of NYS taxes? It is our property taxes that will go up. That is where we are going to get killed. Those taxes go to our schools, which rank among the best in the nation and it based on our home values.
Yes you are wrong. The average Long Islander pays in property school taxes well exceeds the $10,000, and that is even before we talk about state and local taxes.
We have loads of middle income people living on Long Island making what you make. If this goes into law, they will drowning in taxes. Glad it works for some, but it doesn't work for others and no tax law should punish you for where you live.
Yes it does.
Hopefully those states that have un-fuckin-real state taxes, learn to elect more responsible representation.
It isn't punishing you for where you live, it's punishing you for your very bad choices at the voting booth.
And yes, that is a personal responsibility thing, and you do deserve to be punished, or rewarded, for the choices you make.
And it looks like I am going to be rewarded very well for my vote for Trump, and Scott.
Any IRS deductions or tax credits are not punishment...they are exactly as they state. As a CPA you should be aware of that.
I could say why are we giving any child tax credit? Why are people who have no children being punished by the Feds? Well, I can't say that because credit and deductions are not forms of punishment.
So you didn't even go to the article. It is not a Huffington post article but Reuters. I trust Reuters.
I totally agree, which is why the whole idea of them bring back jobs is a joke. They will do what they are programmed to do which is pocket the money and give investors a better return. It will do nothing to stimulate the economy.
Well let's be specific here. If the corporation choses, it can help stock prices, buy backs, and dividends, which inr return may help some 401K's, mutual funds and IRA's (one has to remember that many of them are diversified in other investments like property... which will take a big hit).
The article I posted and you didn't read, clearly showed that isn't what happened in the past, And even you recognize that a corporation will do what is in it's best interest. So no. My job as an accountant is to find every creative way to remove money from the tax role. This only sweetens the pot.
And here is the thing I don't get. Don't you think that when this kicks in and things start to go south and from what I am reading, it will, the average American will vote with their wallet? I do.
In NYS, we are being punished for wanting good schools. Florida schools suck. This is a known fact. It is not from our state taxes, it is from our school taxes. So I guess caring about education is a bad thing.
Do you have kids? I do. My kids had a full ride at Johns Hopkins from going to the Roslyn schools.
You won't find any of the Conservatives or Trump supporters here in NT or anywhere else speaking against the massive and destructive GOP tax bill, even when they find out later how much it will cost them and their children's children in the future due to the large amount of increase to the deficit. It's party politics and the usual blame game of trying to blame everyone else for their own greedy mistakes.
This tax bill is clearly to benefit the rich like themselves, their rich donors and their idol, Trump. However, the price they will pay will be at the election booths in 2018 when their own constituents find they have been sold to the Devil for 40 pieces of silver.
Every mad dog has its day. And they will surely have theirs.
We are talking about one specific deduction local and state taxes.
But while we are on this.. wait till the charities get hit.
Got one in Oberlin
and another that went to FSU
so.... what's the point again?
No, i don't think i'm wrong for "most" middle class tax payers. I don't think "most" middle class tax payers in the US live in highly taxed areas like Long Island. 10k goes a long way in home value where i live in Michigan. I've got one homesteaded home and one vacation home that isn't homesteaded and i'm paying less than 5k. Most of that 5k is from the non homesteaded vacation home.
So you are losing part of your property tax write off but catching a break on your income tax rate. How bad is it really? Have you done a real calc yet based on what we do know?
I have to agree with you Raven. This is very short sighted. I never get involved with the politics here on NT, but this bill has to be one of the worst things I have ever seen.
I think I made my point.
What is kinda ironic, and probably planned to be this way is, the big cities, you know, the huge metro areas that voted for Clinton, are going to get their asses handed to them by this tax law. The majority of Americans are going to benefit greatly by it.
Sorry you guys are going to get hit, but, you voted for the hacks that raised your taxes to beyond belief, and I for one am sick and tired of having to bail your asses out with my tax dollars.
You are in the minority of people who give charity for charity sakes. Good for you. But I actually talk to my clients and they determine by their benefit, and that is no different than corporations.
As for not needing accountants.. you are kidding right? I am busy all year long with other accounting issues. Tax season is just a pesty 4 months of the year. Besides, I can always go back to teaching. The benefit of being personally diversified.
Really, what is Texas? I believe a red state. I had no idea that the tax law was set up to be retribution. Payback will be a well.. you know what.
What I am wondering, since they kept most of the real under belly of the bill from the people, what all else is added to the bill we don't know about that will adversely affect the middle class and poor, by those who were holdouts and only thinking of themselves, in order to get the votes they need to pass this very damaging bill that will have a huge negative impact on the majority of the American people across the board, and our economy for decades to come.
The GOP fight among themselves over mundane issues, but, when it comes to putting more money in their own pockets or their wealthy donors, they are willing to sell their souls at the idea of getting their own large piece of the pie.
I wonder about your point that you think you've made...
I am very happy for you, and your kid, but that is a far cry from what is actually the typical state of NYC schools. Do we need to really have a discussion on your typical school?
The NY state graduation rate is 79%, and that is with liberals dumbing down the graduation criteria. FL is 78% and is a standardized education state. Shall we discuss the 68% graduation rate in NYC?
You know.. on a sidebar, the whole time I was talking to you, I didn't take a personal shot at you... yet you felt the need to take one at me. Just wanted to point that out.
Texas has no state income tax, they will not suffer at all.
I never deduct Charities. Those that I donate to are in memory of my Son who walked on from cancer at a young age. So it is done from the heart with nothing in return expected.
I live in So Calif and taxes here are high as it is. The only ones that will benefit from this tax bill are the rich and corporations, paid for on the backs of the middle class and poor for decades to come.
Texas like NY has property taxes. They will feel the sting. You keep thinking this is about NYS taxes. It isn't.
Goodness you are special aren't you.
Why don't you stop paying for your insurance policies as well? Home? Health? Auto? You'll be swimming in $$ in no time, eh?
It's the same concept.
So it wasn't about me, it was about? Come on.. it was a shot at me. Classy clients I have? LOL.. you think that corporations are going to behave more less "classy"? We have just come full circle. Wouldn't be nice if corporations did it that way, too? They don't. The fallout will be on charities.
Yes, actually I'd be very well off if I didn't have to pay for those. Probably about $1200 a month between all of them in the part that I pay for them. My work pays the lion's share of my health though.
Really? Too bad you have no idea what you are talking about, just anything to berate people you know nothing about. When you have something of any real substance to talk about with me, I'll be happy to do so, but, until then, take your party politics snark to someone who will truly appreciate it.
I would personally rather you never speak to me again. Your personal attacks have absolutely no redeeming qualities.
Truly my pleasure, and I request the same from you. Your personal attacks are unwarranted and purely for your own pleasure.
Really?
Yeah, really. And I don't believe that it has anything to do with you. However, if you feel that your input is necessary, be my guest.
Mags, she can not handle any dissenting opinion, it's either her way or the highway, and when you try to debate her, she pulls the victim card, EVERY TIME. I'll read what she has to say, but mostly, I just ignore her. Unfortunately, this time I was dumb enough to comment on her post.
LOL.. and more personal comments. Look, I know when someone is getting personal with me. I know the tactic well... you forget who reads this junk day in and day out. So keep your comments on the issue, instead of my profession, or my clients.
You do realize that NYC is just part of the huge state of NY, right? And if you were being accurate, the graduation rate is 70% which includes immigrant kids.
On the other hand, Long Island has a 89.3% graduation rate, with my school district (Roslyn) coming in at 97%.
http://data.newsday.com/long-island/data/education/graduation-rates-2015/#o:c=;|
So yeah, that is my point. You get what you pay for.
Ok, and the FL graduation rate is 77% which also includes immigrant kids.
My particular high school is at 88.7%
So, again I ask, what's your point?
Congrats on your kids Johns Hopkins btw.
You still pay school taxes and Houston and Austin are on the list. And again with 1984. This is not the same state as it was in 84 thank goodness.
11. Houston, Texas
Effective property tax rate for 2016: 1.7%
Household property tax bills above $10,000: 10.2%
Home value at which property tax bill exceeds $10,000: $583,371
9. Austin, Texas
Effective property tax rate for 2016: 1.6%
Household property tax bills above $10,000: 11.4%
Home value at which property tax bill exceeds $10,000: $619,641
That makes zero sense.
Talking about a member in the third person is getting really close to skirting the CoC. Knock it off.
My point still stands. Graduation rates in NY depends on where you live. Even more than that getting into the college of your choice depends on the AP's offered.
I have been very open about my kids education. I have no idea if your kids went to private school or what part of the state you come from. The more I look into Florida, the more I learn.
And thanks for the congrats and same to you.
I'm Nature Coast, kids went to Citrus High School.
The point is, we don't pay ridiculous taxes, and our graduation rate is about the same. Really it is not the graduation rate that counts, now that I think about it... but what is taught, and what is expected.. Considering that, I don't think we can really argue this anymore, without getting into some serious research.
No they are not. This is the whole problem with this discussion. You don't understand how different Long Island's school system is. Each one of Long Island's school districts are seperate. They are graded as separate. Roslyn's graduation rate is 97%. We rank in the nations top 250 schools. We are 88 in the nation in STEM graduates (science, tech, engineering and math). That made all the difference for why my kids got into Hopkins on a full ride. I could have never afforded that kind of education if they had to go to private school, but because we have these separate schools systems, I could with my taxes. It was literally less than the price of 1 kid. We wanted the best education for our girls and we also counted on that tax break.
There I would have to agree.
On the one hand, you have benefited greatly from the taxes you've paid.
On the other, I wonder how your single, or childless neighbors have fared?
Then again, it sounds like you are in a rather exclusive area, so maybe money is not such a big deal?
Ok, sorry about that. I'll not talk about her again, unless it is in a direct response to her comment to me.
I have always wondered why people with no state income taxes did not get the same federal tax break as people who live in states with income taxes. not even close to fair, as we still pay state tax in the form of sales taxes and such but alas... no federal deduction for that.
so I say.... good riddance to that BS and good luck to those who now have to bear the cost of their own state govt's out of their own pockets. it should be an awakening experience for those folks
This is true.
Fine, because we had the deductions. Obviously, there has always been a balance struck up during votes for budget, but a big part of that was based on the deductions
Part of it is, and other parts are very middle class and in fact, even poor and live in public housing, so that is why it is a big deal.
It will not kill them...it may reduce the amount they can deduct on their federal income taxes.
Out of curiosity, do you represent all tax increases as death sentences? So the tax from the individual mandate...does that "kill" those who must pay it? What about the Clinton tax increases of the 1990's? How many fatalities did those cause?
You should move to MO there 9mm, your paying way to much in taxes.
It's not about trickle down. It's about not driving them overseas into the waiting arms of other economies. Germany's corporate rate is 15%. Ireland's is 12.5%. The world average is about 20%. Our highest is 39%. We are uncompetitive in a highly competitive environment. It's like trying to compete in the NFL with leather helmets.
No, that depends on the franchise owner.
And, this thinking is "patriotic"? How so? You claim to be a patriot and, yet you condone "punishing Americans" for voting against a POS.
Well obviously you don't live in near any major metro area, since I know as a fact, the property values in Austin and Houston are huge.... comparison wise to New York/Nassau/Manhattan and they pay higher taxes. But I wouldn't insult the good people of Houston and Austin, Texas and call them suckers since they get more for their money, like being in the hub of culture and entertainment.
Wow.. I think I will save that comment as an example of how to escalate a discussion in a bad direction. No comment.
No. A comparison is given in present values, not 1984 values since many factors have changed, like changes in the population in Suffolk County (which has gone up) and demand for housing. Also no present value comparison can be made since I don't know where you live in Texas and I don't know where you lived in Suffolk so there is no way for me to know what your point of comparison is.
It matters little how much more house you are getting, if you live in the middle of nowhere. I can live upstate and get a house like that for a fraction of the cost and the fraction of the taxes. Texas has big taxes in big cities, as I showed you. You can't even think of buying a 1 bedroom condo in Austin without spending $500K, which is on point with NYC. As for ou NYS income tax, it is painless for us. What isn't is our property taxes.
So your MO is to get nasty when dealing with someone who knows their facts. Will file that for future use. Is that easy enough to comprehend?
Btw.. officially I am done with this discussion.
I have already done so. Repeatedly. It's totally unnecessary.
It's $150b/yr for 10 years. Hardly the end of the world. It's not a good idea, but it's certainly not worthy of the leftist hysteria floating around the web and social media. It will be far less damaging than the Affordable Care Act, that's for sure.
It's just like 2010 all over again.
Estimates are that 80% of Americans will see their taxes decrease. Yes, rich people will see a bigger reduction than others, but they pay a helluva lot more in taxes than others.
Because letting people keep more of their own money is "selling them to the Devil". Riiiight... I'm not sure that's going to sell very well outside the AlterNet mailing list.
It's 2017 now.
If the middle class were actually keeping more of their own money, I would agree but there is nothing in this plan that says anyone in the middle class will keep more of their money for more than even ONE year while the rich will get tax breaks forever.... If you are rich, great for you...if you are in the middle class like most people, you are getting screwed...simple as that. Don't believe me? Look up the numbers for yourself.
Not to mention some of the highest teacher salaries in the nation. Gotta pay higher salaries so they can pay those high taxes don't you know?
Yeah, i didn't think so.
Yes lots of folks including myself will get out at the midterms and vote every single republican out. Count on it!
Especially in the mid-terms, like 2018.
And, this worked so well under Reagan, Bush and, BushII.
How so? Donald Rump is going to personally reward you?
Funny how you and CCM are telling Perrie what she should know.
You're a real class act. SMDH.
When have you ever done that?
Really!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I don't know if you noticed? I was quoting CCM for his comment and, then I made a comment, he's the one that said he was looking forward to the tax bill passing.
You mean like the predictions that were being made that the not only the US economy but the worlds economy was going to tank just as soon as Trump took office?
You mean like how the democrats were going to keep control of the House in 2010? How they were going to regain control of the House in 2012? How they were going to retake the House and retain the Senate in 2014? How hillary was going to be president and they were going to retake the House abd the Senate in 2016?
Seeing the track record, I dont think i will be taking much stock in you "predictions"
Whole bunch of New York State that don't live on the island......and most of us do not pay that kind of crazed tax rate, though ours is still plenty high.
People are already being screwed by ACA. The Not-For-Profit I'm on the board of directors for has one employee that wants healthcare-the cost of that healthcare has gone form a few hundred a month to $9K per year.....for a basic plan. All thanks to ACA.
Sorry GMR - I meant to mention CCM - too late to edit now.
Is OK, I thought that might have been the case, just making sure.
Jack,
We tried this once before. You can see what I wrote here
Our corporate rate is high, but they have loads of ways that corporations have to reduce their effective rate that we as individuals don't.
Here is a good article to read about it:
That being said, I am not against reducing corporate rate, but not as dramaticly as this tax bill has done.
Even NPR disagrees with this.
Perrie....from your own source.....
and....
The list of US companies that have "inverted" to become foreign companies is as long as your arm. All because our tax code is idiotic.
Jack,
But you are kind of making my point. By changing the code to supposedly benefit business and bring the back, is a joke, since they don't need it under our current code. We just made it easier for them to reach the same goal. The only ones who might benefit are the small business owner, but I doubt that will bring the big boost to employment that this new law is supposed to bring. But only time will tell.
Whatever makes you feel your life is more worthwhile.
You want to talk 'death' and the tax bill? Try the fact millions are going to lose access to healthcare, cost are about ready to skyrocket for policies, and people will die. That is what happens when people can't afford treatment, be it for diabetes, cancer, etc. That is one aspect of how this bill is about death. The other death would be the death of our economic security after this trickle down shit causes the same problems for the country it does in Kansas and Oklahoma. Which it will because that's what those trickle down policies do.
Well, you are trying to blame Trump for how the PPACA was written? Because, I distinctly remember stating that the PPACA does absolutely NOTHING to control skyrocketing premiums and healthcare costs. In fact, the tax on medical devices actually ARTIFICIALLY increases those costs. But, now you blame Trump because Max Baucus, Harry Reid, Nancy Pelosi, and Barack Obama wrote the bill...
No. Because it's idiotic melodrama. That was, in fact, the point of that post.
By which you mean "people will choose not to buy something" and the government will stop forcing them.
That didn't bother you when the Affordable Care Act caused it. Why would it bother you now?
Odd then that you don't seem to care at all about the actual costs of those treatments.
People are going to die because the government keeps a little less of their money. Riiiight. That's not melodrama or anything.
We're talking about much less than 5% of the US budget. And you think this is "the death of economic security". Oh good grief. Do you understand that this melodrama is partly why Donald Trump is president? As repulsive and distasteful and inept and awful as he is, people are less scared of him than they are of the irrational, hyper-emotional raving left.
I'm just guessing.....but I would venture to say that nobody on this forum has read the entire Bill (myself included).
Therefore, nobody knows exactly how this will effect people......right now.....people are basing their judgement of this bill..... based on what the Media has told them.......
We will just have to wait and see what happens.......The tax code is STILL far too complicated.....and how it all shakes out .....remains to be seen......Just my two cents.....
TAP
TAP, I think that you just said that we have to wait until they pass the bill to find out what's in it.
For some reason, I seem to remember that there was a kerfuffle about something like that a couple of years ago...
Completely different situation......It isn't my job to read it before it get's passed.....However, it is Nancy Pelosi's job to read legislation before she votes on it......
Which I'm sure she did. Informed people know that Pelosi made that comment over a week before the final House bill was voted on.
Now, how do you feel about Corker saying he would vote for the bill before he read it?
Oh and what do you think about Corker saying that even after he read the provision that will make him millions, he needs an accountant to explain what it means BUT he's STILL going to vote for the bill?
Bob Corker can't leave Congress soon enough for me......
Absolutely Clint, no sense having around those Republicans like Corker who show a tiny little bit of integrity once in a blue moon, they just don't fit in with the rest of the Republicans, most of whom are pure, unadulterated scum 100% of the time.
And yet she demonstrated thorough misunderstanding of it during several press conferences.
Or she lied.
I'll go with "didn't understand".
What 'press conferences are you speaking of? Link please. I'll wait.
BTW, you know that the comment that we are talking about WASN'T made during a press conference right?
BTFW, my two cents.
Pelosi has forgotten more about the Congress then either you or I could ever hope to know and she is STILL the best Speaker of the House EVER. Now if you can show me some empirical evidence that another Speaker has passed MORE legislation in a MORE adversarial situation, I'd be happy to change my evaluation.
Getting every single Democrat to vote for a conservative health care plan was nothing short of miraculous.
She was asked if she would buy insurance on the exchange, since she was so proud of this program. She replied "I can't, because I get employer coverage"....which isn't true and never has been.
I note that you made ANOTHER claim but have yet to post a link to prove either of your proclamations.
BTFW, the Congress gets their health insurance through the ACA SHOP marketplace because of a SENATE Amendment to the ACA.
Still waiting for links.
No no no no. We must rush to hysterical judgement right this very moment. You're doing it wrong.
You noticed that, did you? I thought it was just me.
A good two cents.
He's just following the lead of the GOP leadership in Jan. 2009.
Corker knows what's in it, that's why he voted for it, real estate developers get a nice tax cut, he's a real estate developer.
"I won't vote for a bill that adds one penny to the deficit."
Bob Corker was bought off.
Of course he was. He's leaving Congress and, going back to Colorado to collect his bribe.
Jeremy, I know being ignorant doesn't bother you, but I will post this for the benefit of others.
Chicago’s Murder Rate Is Rising, But It Isn’t Unprecedented
By Rob Arthur
Filed under Criminal Justice
Donald Trump sent a tweet last night decrying Chicago’s murder rate and threatening to “send in the Feds” unless it goes down.
Chicago’s murder rate is high, and it has risen significantly in the last two years. But the recent rate of killings is not unprecedented: During the mid-1990s, Chicago experienced a higher toll of murders than it did in 2016.
Nor, despite the attention it often gets from Trump and others, is Chicago uniquely dangerous among U.S. cities. According to preliminary data compiled by my colleague Jeff Asher , Chicago had the eighth-highest murder rate among big U.S. cities in 2016. Cities including St. Louis, Baltimore and Detroit have much higher rates, as do a host of other towns scattered throughout the United States.
John,
I think you posted this to the wrong article.
Maybe he should be put on a diet...fewer seeds per week!
Ok, that gets a vote for being comical.
How delightfully heartwarming to see the Left take an interest in in lowering taxes. I'm sure it's just a coincidence that there has been no proposed legislation reflecting that interest.
well... looks like dems will be running on "raising taxes".
good luck with that
Let's see, Bill Clinton got re-elected after raising taxes on the upper 10%.
This is so terrible!!! Maybe we should revisit what the renown Paul Krugman thought.
November 2016
Interviewer: Hey Mr. Krugman, what do you think will happen if Donald Trump gets elected?
Krugman: The economic fallout of a Donald Trump presidency will probably be severe and widespread enough to plunge the world into recession. Trump is the "mother of all adverse effects. The GOP nominee's administration could quickly undo the progress that the markets around the world have made in the eight years since the financial crisis. Under any circumstances, putting an irresponsible, ignorant man who takes his advice from all the wrong people in charge of the nation with the world's most important economy would be very bad news. Now comes the mother of all adverse effects — and what it brings with it is a regime that will be ignorant of economic policy and hostile to any effort to make it work. So we are very probably looking at a global recession, with no end in sight. I suppose we could get lucky somehow. But on economics, as on everything else, a terrible thing has just happened.
December 2017
World Markets
Barack Obama ran for president as a man of the people, standing up to Wall Street as the global economy melted down in that fateful fall of 2008. He pushed a tax plan to soak the rich, ripped NAFTA for hurting the middle class and tore into John McCain for supporting a bankruptcy bill that sided with wealthy bankers "at the expense of hardworking Americans." Obama may not have run to the left of Samuel Gompers or Cesar Chavez, but it's not like you saw him on the campaign trail flanked by bankers from Citigroup and Goldman Sachs. What inspired supporters who pushed him to his historic win was the sense that a genuine outsider was finally breaking into an exclusive club, that walls were being torn down, that things were, for lack of a better or more specific term, changing.
Then he got elected.
Common Dreams
How is giving people....and yes...even the rich.....their earned money back, a raping of America.
Seems to me, our Government has been rapping us "earners" for decades !
we are about to watch the looters of America pay...
the calm before the storm is just about over/
let the storm begin