David Horowitz Explains the Ruling Ideas of the Left

David Horowitz Explains the Ruling Ideas of the Left
By:   heartland-american
Created:   3 months ago
Comments:   82

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Many people I know grew up in liberal households, and at some point in their lives, they gravitated to the right politically. Many others were nurtured in conservative homes and moved left politically. These shifts are not too surprising. What made someone start in one place and move one way or the other is a function of many things, including the political thinking of one's spouse or partner; the community where one lives; the schools one attended; the company where one works; the political environment of the country, which has shifted left and right at different times; and whether someone was religiously observant and became more secular or moved in the other direction. In general, most people are not obsessed with politics. They may have strong political views, but they don't choose politics as a career path or live and breathe it to the exclusion of other interests or passions.David Horowitz has had a fundamentally different life experience. He grew up in a communist household with parents who were true believers in the superiority of Marxist-Leninist thinking and the model of the Soviet Union as a pathway to a better world for those who could break the bonds that held them captive to ruling-class capitalist ideology and government. Horowitz's parents were committed ideologues whose allegiance to the hard left never wavered. While they were momentarily upset with the revelations in 1956 of the mass murders committed by Stalin's government in previous decades, they considered this at worst an aberration, not a reflection of the tyranny and destruction routinely associated with Marxist regimes. Their lives were too tightly wound in the narrative of the communist collective in the Queens neighborhood where they lived as public school teachers to allow themselves to rethink or reconsider their ideological faith.  

David Horowitz, on the other hand questioned things from the start of his politically conscious years. While he remained on the left for another two decades after the news of Stalin's crimes, his allegiance was never so tight or his mind so closed as to be unable to challenge his belief system when presented with new evidence or arguments.

Horowitz's path from left to right, and then his role as a spokesman for conservative ideas, has been documented through his enormous collection of articles and books, a full bibliography of which totals 56 pages in this ninth and final volume of his Black Book of the Left. The Horowitz catalog includes nearly 80 books authored, co-authored, or edited. While David Horowitz once enjoyed critical acclaim from the book-reviewers of America's elite newspapers and magazines, since his shift to the right, his books are never even considered for review. Why would the New York Times Book Review waste time finding a reviewer to combat Horowitz's arguments when it is so much easier to fill pages with laudatory reviews of those who have stayed on the left's plantation and parrot its talking points? Ignoring someone is also a way to say that such person and his views do not matter. And certainly no left-wing media outlet cares to encourage apostasy by others.

This last volume in Horowitz's series of books on the American left reinforces his central argument that the left is different from the right in the totality of its commitment to advancing its agenda and destroying its enemies. Conservatives are conservative not only in political orientation, but in how they do battle. Preservation of what is good requires a different kind of motivation and energy from revolution or upheaval. The battle is not between two sides who agree on ends, but see different ways of getting there. The left, according to Horowitz, is ruthless both in pursuit of victory and when given the reins of authority.

Naturally, there are gradations on the left as there are on the right. There are moderate, centrist Democrats, a declining group for sure, who remain committed to some of the same things as many on the right. These "collaborationists" are despised by the true believers on the left. The energy and the firepower on the left belong to more absolutist types, who accept far less of any consensus view of what American represents, its uniqueness, the trajectory of its history, and what needs to be preserved or destroyed. There is little or no pride in America on the left, since so much remains to be fixed and so much power remains in the wrong hands. The resistance to Donald Trump is a reflection of how grating the concept of American greatness is to the left.

Volume 9 of the Black Book series contains four chapters written by Horowitz and one chapter by Jamie Glazov, which provides a history of Horowitz's political evolution as seen through his writings. The longest chapter, "The Fate of the Marxist Idea," includes two letters Horowitz wrote to former friends and mentors in the communist movement, and were initially published in 1998. The first is to a member of the Sunnyside, Queens collective whose parents worshiped communism in the same "church" as David's parents.

Horowitz's former friend chose not to attend the memorial service after the death of David's father in 1987, seeking to ignore any need to debate any of the political ideas that both had once absorbed and that Horowitz had since abandoned. Instead, she wrote a short letter saying the personal and the political cannot be separated, that socialism is better than capitalism, that she had abandoned Stalinism (what courage!) and socialism had not really been tried, the real reason why it had "not worked" so far. And then she added the insults, accusing Horowitz of having lost the compassion and humanism of his youth, which always motivated their parents, evidenced by his support of Ronald Reagan's vile policies. Horowitz's lengthy point-by-point refutation of her letter was never answered except by threat of a lawsuit.

A more comprehensive analysis of the failures of the left was sent to Ralph Milliband, a Marxist writer who was a mentor to Horowitz when he lived in London in the '60s. The letter outlines the cold reality of communist-socialist rule wherever it had been tried and the enormous death toll attributable to the tyrannies and tyrants associated with these regimes – whether in the Soviet Union, China, Cambodia, Vietnam, Venezuela, North Korea, or Cuba among others. These countries are not and were not similar to the social welfare states of Western Europe that emerged after World War 2. These states have moved much farther along the continuum toward higher taxes, and a larger government share, and bureaucratic control of the economy than in the United States, but they still sustain a reasonable commitment to preserving the political freedoms of individuals and the belief in democracy and a free people.

The true believers on the left say they want nothing more than equality and better lives for the masses, but communist equality has always meant equalizing the suffering, reducing living standards, and eliminating dissent or political opposition. Milliband also ignored engaging with Horowitz, obviously a lost cause in his eyes as far as rejoining the legions on the left.

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Horowitz devotes two chapters to issues concerning black Americans. The first provides a commentary on the campaign for reparations, advanced by Randall Robinson, among others, 15 years back, and now getting new life from support by the likes of Ta-Nehisi Coates, the current black intellectual designee by the major media and their partners in universities. Coates is the author of a commentary on the 9-11 attacks that concluded that the police and firefighters who died "were menaces of nature; they were the fire, the comet, the storm, which could – with no justification – shatter my body." So the men and women who entered burning buildings, and climbed dozens of flights of stairs with 75 pounds of equipment on their backs to try to get people out of the buildings before they collapsed, were really just biding their time until they could get on to their real task of destroying black bodies. This is what qualifies one as a thought leader in elite circles these days.

Horowitz destroys the argument for reparations, and in a second chapter, he challenges the victimization logic that offers white racism as the excuse for any "underperformance" by the black community. There is no one alive today who held any slaves or personally was a slave. Many black Americans in the country today have no ancestors in America who were slaves. A majority of Americans are descended from people who came to the United States after the Civil War and bear no guilt for the ugly practice in one region of the United States two centuries ago. Those who are descended from people who lived in the states that did not join the Confederacy have 400,000 dead Union soldiers, plus many hundreds of thousands injured, as their sacrifice to liberating the slaves and preserving the Union. Reparations for Japanese-Americans in the United States or Holocaust survivors in Europe were paid to people who had themselves lived through specific horrors or criminal behavior by governments. Must all Americans today pay for something that ended over 150 years ago and for which a bloody war was fought? Are all African-Americans equally entitled to compensation for something that impacted some of their ancestors seven generations back?

The victimization theme – that white racism is solely responsible for the economic situation of black Americans, their higher crime rates and poor academic performance, eliminates any agency for individuals to beat the odds or take advantage of the increased opportunities that are now available, including trillions spent on social welfare programs over the past half-century, much of that designed to address the needs of African-Americans. These programs include affirmative action admissions to universities and similar approaches to hiring by corporations and other firms. Martin Luther King was aware that racism and discrimination were present in 1960s America, as was segregation in large parts of the country, but he believed that these should not be an excuse for black American behavior that only worsened their plight. Charlatans and race-hustlers like Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton have dominated the civil rights movement since King's death, always pushing the white racism bogeyman, while those more in line with King's legacy, including Jason Riley, Shelby Steele, Thomas Sowell, and Glen Loury, are ignored or condemned as sell-outs. Arguing that cultural norms within a community can be damaging to the success of future generations is simply a forbidden theme – witness the recent campaign against University of Pennsylvania law professor Amy Wax.

Horowitz's final chapter is a review of Christopher Hitchens's book Hitch-22 and the British author's political path from a Trotskyite of sorts to something a bit more nuanced and sane. Horowitz is clearly disappointed that Hitchens's movement did not follow his own trajectory, which resulted in abandonment of the left and a commitment to fighting it. Instead, Hitchens's politics at the time of his death from cancer was something of a confused palette: anger at Islamic extremism and hostility to Israel, appreciation for American uniqueness but fondness for the collectivist ideal. Hitchens tried to hold a place in two camps – not an easy task, and one that can lead to incoherence. Most people would not get too upset or frustrated about someone who moved some way toward their worldview, but Horowitz's life experience has been consumed with politics, first from the left, and for the last three decades from the right, and he prefers enlightenment to cautious mush.

There is a passion among the politically most active, and when their politics shift, they often have a story to tell about the illusions and lies they encountered and addressed that motivated the change in allegiance. The nine-volume series, The Black Book of the America Left, including this final volume, is a unique outline, filled with many chapters and verses, about why the left has been consistently wrong and produced so much destruction in its wake. Someone who never started on the left, and did not understand its convictions, its messaging, and its tactics, could not have written such a series.   https://www.americanthinker.com/articles/2018/04/david_horowitz_explains_the_ruling_ideas_of_the_left.html

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Heartland American
1  Heartland American    3 months ago

“David Horowitz, on the other hand questioned things from the start of his politically conscious years. While he remained on the left for another two decades after the news of Stalin's crimes, his allegiance was never so tight or his mind so closed as to be unable to challenge his belief system when presented with new evidence or arguments.

Horowitz's path from left to right, and then his role as a spokesman for conservative ideas, has been documented through his enormous collection of articles and books, a full bibliography of which totals 56 pages in this ninth and final volume of his Black Book of the Left. The Horowitz catalog includes nearly 80 books authored, co-authored, or edited. While David Horowitz once enjoyed critical acclaim from the book-reviewers of America's elite newspapers and magazines, since his shift to the right, his books are never even considered for review. Why would the New York Times Book Review waste time finding a reviewer to combat Horowitz's arguments when it is so much easier to fill pages with laudatory reviews of those who have stayed on the left's plantation and parrot its talking points? Ignoring someone is also a way to say that such person and his views do not matter. And certainly no left-wing media outlet cares to encourage apostasy by others.

This last volume in Horowitz's series of books on the American left reinforces his central argument that the left is different from the right in the totality of its commitment to advancing its agenda and destroying its enemies. Conservatives are conservative not only in political orientation, but in how they do battle. Preservation of what is good requires a different kind of motivation and energy from revolution or upheaval. The battle is not between two sides who agree on ends, but see different ways of getting there. The left, according to Horowitz, is ruthless both in pursuit of victory and when given the reins of authority.”

 
 
IceMan
1.1  IceMan  replied to  Heartland American @1    3 months ago

And the lunacy from the left will began in 3-2-1

 
 
Heartland American
1.1.1  Heartland American  replied to  IceMan @1.1    3 months ago

Indeed.  On Friday I seeded an article from a current progressive regarding tolerance that they couldn’t tolerate.  Yesterday I seeded another from a progressive whose an expert in civil liberties and they felt civil liberty doesn’t apply in the case of Trump and conservatives.  Today is one from a former hard left person who grew up in a two parent communist school teachers home and explored until finding a better way.  We know that they consider him a traitor to their cause.  

 
 
lennylynx
1.1.2  lennylynx  replied to  Heartland American @1.1.1    3 months ago

Oh, we tolerated it just fine, HA, the extreme level of hypocrisy did blow a few minds though...

 
 
Heartland American
1.1.3  Heartland American  replied to  lennylynx @1.1.2    3 months ago

There was no hypocrisy.  Your imagination gets the best of you sometimes.  

 
 
epistte
1.1.4  epistte  replied to  Heartland American @1.1.1    3 months ago
Yesterday I seeded another from a progressive whose an expert in civil liberties and they felt civil liberty doesn’t apply in the case of Trump and conservatives.

Your claims about the ACLU ignoring supposed 4th amendment violations because of the search warrant on Cohen's office were blatant partisan lies.

Your daily strawmen fallacies are obvious and expected.

 
 
Trout Giggles
1.1.5  Trout Giggles  replied to  Heartland American @1.1.1    3 months ago

LOL! This from the "man" who daily seeds tirades on how bad and immoral liberals are.

Yeah....lots of civility coming from you......

 
 
JohnRussell
1.1.6  JohnRussell  replied to  Trout Giggles @1.1.5    3 months ago

XX has no self-awareness. 

 
 
Thrawn 31
1.1.7  Thrawn 31  replied to  Heartland American @1.1.1    3 months ago
On Friday I seeded an article from a current progressive regarding tolerance that they couldn’t tolerate.

Nah, we just told you to fuck off. I agreed with the premise of the article, but have zero desire to be civil towards you considering all you do is dehumanize and try to tear down those who disagree with you politically. If I had a shred of respect for you a civil conversation could occur, but that ship sailed long ago. 

 
 
Heartland American
1.1.8  Heartland American  replied to  Thrawn 31 @1.1.7    3 months ago

If you can’t have a civil dialogue with me, you won’t be able to have one with any other source of conservative opinion on the news.  

 
 
Tex Stankley
1.1.9  Tex Stankley  replied to  Heartland American @1.1.8    3 months ago

All due respect, but you folks are no more conservative than liberals are leftists. 

 
 
lennylynx
1.1.10  lennylynx  replied to  Tex Stankley @1.1.9    3 months ago

I'm sorry, but a prominent member already has that type of dog for an avatar, you are going to have to select another breed.  Thank-you for your anticipated co-operation on this matter.  Thanks again.

 
 
Tex Stankley
1.1.11  Tex Stankley  replied to  lennylynx @1.1.10    3 months ago

Thank you kindly for the PSA.    After a long hiatus slinking around the dark edges of our collective nightmare, doing the alligator in strip bars for quick cash, blending with the hillbillies, oh wait, that's me and my fambly, OK, blending with the norms and civilians,  dodging the Einsatzgruppen Light, yodelling for spare change in bus stations of note, drawing and painting under nom de guerre, tending the piffle plants and generally keeping a low profile I have returned for a brief stint.   I did indeed notice the snoot of another pyr onsite since last here.   Most cool.  

Sadly my best Podjo made the leap off of this mortal coil and his image is in honor and memory.   He must stay.   Disappearing him twice would be too hard a row to hoe.  

Other than the whole fascism, poleece state slide toward the gulag, I do hope you and yours are doing bodaciously well.

best your way.

 
 
Vic Eldred
1.2  Vic Eldred  replied to  Heartland American @1    3 months ago

Great article on an important man. I have a feeling we see something on the death of Conservatism on the horizon.

 
 
JohnRussell
2  JohnRussell    3 months ago

I tried to read through this relatively long article, but as it became less and less relevant to anything many people care about I ended up just skimming. 

The article is pretty pointless. 

David Horowitz, by the way, for those not familiar with him, is considered one of the biggest islamophobes in the United States. 

 
 
Heartland American
2.1  Heartland American  replied to  JohnRussell @2    3 months ago

Are all Jews islamophobes?  

 
 
JohnRussell
2.1.1  JohnRussell  replied to  Heartland American @2.1    3 months ago

Huh? 

 
 
JohnRussell
2.1.2  JohnRussell  replied to  JohnRussell @2.1.1    3 months ago

 
 
IceMan
2.1.3  IceMan  replied to  JohnRussell @2.1.2    3 months ago

 David Horowitz, ... The Tale of How a Former Leftist came to realize the Democratic party is advocating Communism for America and bent on destroying the United States.

 
 
Heartland American
2.1.4  Heartland American  replied to  JohnRussell @2.1.2    3 months ago

Being opposed to Islamic fascism in the global war on terror does not make one an islamaphobe.  Supper for and backing of moderate Muslims seeking their own reformation and renaissance is not iskamophobic.  

 
 
Thrawn 31
2.1.5  Thrawn 31  replied to  IceMan @2.1.3    3 months ago
David Horowitz, ... The Tale of How a Former Leftist came to realize the Democratic party is advocating Communism for America and bent on destroying the United States.

They are pretty terrible communists. Haven't heard or seen any of them advocating for the abolition of personal property, nor state control of industry. Some ideas could be considered socialistic to a degree, but nothing even remotely approaches communism. I am curious as to whether or not you actually know what communism is.

 
 
Trout Giggles
2.2  Trout Giggles  replied to  JohnRussell @2    3 months ago

I know who is.

 
 
bbl-1
3  bbl-1    3 months ago

What is the 'left?'  The crowd for Choice, Voting Rights, Access to Health Care?

The 'left' destroying its enemies?  You mean like Hannity drudging up Seth Rich conspiracies to keep the weak and insipid, weak and insipid?

"Apostasy"?  Yeah.  Another word for 'bagel without cream cheese'?

 
 
IceMan
3.1  IceMan  replied to  bbl-1 @3    3 months ago
What is the 'left?'

The crowd of anti first amendment for anyone but them themselves, the crowd of anti second amendment. The crowd of Americanphobia, the crowd advocating for the Communist States of America.

 
 
bbl-1
3.1.1  bbl-1  replied to  IceMan @3.1    3 months ago

I put cream cheese on my bagel.

'Corn Huskers for Palin,' lives.

 
 
Heartland American
3.1.2  Heartland American  replied to  bbl-1 @3.1.1    3 months ago

I am he.  

 
 
epistte
3.1.3  epistte  replied to  IceMan @3.1    3 months ago
The crowd of anti first amendment for anyone but them themselves,

What First Amendment rights of your have been threatened by by the government

The crowd of anti second amendment.

The very wording of the 2nd Amendment says that is it to be well regulated, which currently it is not. Nobody is seeking to repeal the 2nd Amendment, despite your apparent fears.

The crowd of Americanphobia,

What is Americanphobia?  Do you believe that anyone who dares to criticize the GOP, Trump or the concept of American exceptionalism is an Americanphobe?

the crowd advocating for the Communist States of America.

I'm a lefty progressive and I have yet to meet a communist. Maybe they just don't come to the organizing meetings.  Are these people advocating for the government of Russia pre-1990s revolution or are they advocating for a government of pure Marxist theory?   Russia and the iron curtain pre-1990s were not in any way communist, despite the name. 

 
 
luther28
3.1.4  luther28  replied to  epistte @3.1.3    3 months ago

Though not a lefty progressive, you have summed it up quite nicely for me. I would have to say your response would be accepted by those from the left to the right of center.

For myself, I realized some time ago that on paper Socialism is the ideal concept, sadly when one adds humans to the equation it seems to fall apart.

 
 
Trout Giggles
3.1.5  Trout Giggles  replied to  luther28 @3.1.4    3 months ago

I think a combination of socialism and capitalism is ideal for now. Until someone can actually come up with a "utopian" ideology

 
 
JohnRussell
3.1.6  JohnRussell  replied to  Trout Giggles @3.1.5    3 months ago

excellent observation Trout

 
 
Trout Giggles
3.1.7  Trout Giggles  replied to  JohnRussell @3.1.6    3 months ago

thank-you

 
 
epistte
3.1.8  epistte  replied to  Trout Giggles @3.1.5    3 months ago
I think a combination of socialism and capitalism is ideal for now. Until someone can actually come up with a "utopian" ideology

I support a mixed market socialist economy.

I'll probably have to invest 30 minutes and 2000 words later this evening explaining that idea to many on this forum because in those few words it is likely miles above their ability to comprehend it. 

 
 
Trout Giggles
3.1.9  Trout Giggles  replied to  epistte @3.1.8    3 months ago

It's beyond  mine. LOL. But I'm willing to be taught. :)

 
 
Thrawn 31
3.1.10  Thrawn 31  replied to  IceMan @3.1    3 months ago
The crowd of anti first amendment for anyone but them themselves, the crowd of anti second amendment. The crowd of Americanphobia, the crowd advocating for the Communist States of America.

Man, and here I thought I always fell on the left side of the political spectrum, but if those are the beliefs of the left the apparently I don't. Of course I doubt you would consider me on the right end of the spectrum either, I guess I am just off on my own.

 
 
bbl-1
3.1.11  bbl-1  replied to  Heartland American @3.1.2    3 months ago

I know.  Hi.

 
 
Heartland American
3.1.12  Heartland American  replied to  bbl-1 @3.1.11    3 months ago

Hi! waving

 
 
Heartland American
3.1.13  Heartland American  replied to  bbl-1 @3.1.11    3 months ago

Aren’t you glad we can be back together on the same site after the years when I left newsvine for here?  Just like old times.  Big hugs

 
 
IceMan
4  IceMan    3 months ago

Deleted CoC violation {SP}

address issues and arguments, not individual members.

 
 
JohnRussell
4.1  JohnRussell  replied to  IceMan @4    3 months ago

Removed for context {SP}

 
 
IceMan
4.1.1  IceMan  replied to  JohnRussell @4.1    3 months ago

Removed for context {SP}

 
 
IceMan
4.2  IceMan  replied to  IceMan @4    3 months ago
Deleted CoC violation {SP}

Deleted -  {SP}

Meta comments (comments about the site or its members) are always off-topic.

When a moderator deletes an offensive comment, all comments that pertain to the offensive posting will also be deleted. Disagreement with the actions of a moderator may be appealed to the Resident Adviser: Perrie Halpern (or A. Mac in her absence). All appeal decisions are final.

 
 
Sunshine
4.2.1  Sunshine  replied to  IceMan @4.2    3 months ago
address issues and arguments, not individual members.

If someone else only followed that rule huh?  Every comment has a personal dig, but gets a pass anyways.

 
 
Greg Jones
4.2.2  Greg Jones  replied to  Sunshine @4.2.1    3 months ago

Yep, some members are moderator pets and buddies.

 
 
MUVA
4.2.3  MUVA  replied to  Greg Jones @4.2.2    3 months ago

I know I have seen it.

 
 
Heartland American
4.2.4  Heartland American  replied to  Greg Jones @4.2.2    3 months ago

Well, I’m not one of them. 

 
 
katrix
5  katrix    3 months ago

No wonder you hate America and constantly push for a second Civil War, when you read and post this tripe.   Apparently, you hate everyone who doesn't think exactly as you do - at least, that's what your posts and comments imply.

I hope that one day you'll walk the Jesus talk you spout.  Otherwise, you might think on the biblical passage about the people who Jesus won't know - surely you're familiar with that one (even though that passage doesn't give you an excuse for hatred)?

 
 
Heartland American
5.1  Heartland American  replied to  katrix @5    3 months ago

I am not the topic of the seed.  Please stay on the topic here.  

 
 
epistte
5.1.1  epistte  replied to  Heartland American @5.1    3 months ago
I am not the topic of the seed.

You seed this nonsense day after day and then try to duck responsibility for stirring the pot and the partisan name calling of the people who disagree with these lies.

 
 
Heartland American
5.1.2  Heartland American  replied to  epistte @5.1.1    3 months ago

What lies?  Did Sally Kohn lie in her article I seeded?  Did Alan Dershowitz lie in his?  As to Horowitz, he had his life experiences and writes about them. You have no right to say he’s lying about his own life experiences.  

 
 
epistte
5.1.3  epistte  replied to  Heartland American @5.1.2    3 months ago

Alan Dershowitz did lie.  I posted rebuttals from both a conservative website and the ACLU and you ignored them rather than to address what I posted.

You are trying to broad bush people on the left because of the opinions of David Horowitz. He most certainly doesn't speak for me and I doubt that he speaks for many people of the left but you have no problem posting this emotional strawman nonsense from the American Thinker and other far-right sites night after night. You seem to prefer to seed essays and stories that play fast and loose with the truth.

You never take responsibility for the partisan nonsense threads that you seed and you seem to love to stir the pot and then walk away while trying to blame everyone but yourself for the incivility that your threads create.

 
 
Vic Eldred
5.1.4  Vic Eldred  replied to  epistte @5.1.3    3 months ago
for the incivility that your threads create.

And what makes them "incivil" ???  The fact that you & like minded people disagree with them?   This is not a campus, there are no safe spaces! Freedom of thought prevails here.

 
 
Kavika
5.1.5  Kavika   replied to  Vic Eldred @5.1.4    3 months ago
And what makes them "incivil" ???  The fact that you & like minded people disagree with them?   This is not a campus, there are no safe spaces! Freedom of thought prevails here.

I don't think that they are uncivil (whatever that is). They are simply opinion pieces from the far side. 

If anyone is seeking a safe place it would be the seeder of these articles. Whine, whine and more whining when people disagree with him.

 
 
Greg Jones
5.1.6  Greg Jones  replied to  epistte @5.1.1    3 months ago
You seed this nonsense day after day and then try to duck responsibility for stirring the pot and the partisan name calling of the people who disagree with these lies.

The same can be said of that handful of hard left posters who seed multiple anti-Trump and anti-GOP articles daily. Its obvious who they are.

 
 
Greg Jones
5.1.7  Greg Jones  replied to  epistte @5.1.3    3 months ago
the incivility that your threads create.

You do the same thing...the old pot and kettle thingy.

 
 
MUVA
5.1.8  MUVA  replied to  Greg Jones @5.1.7    3 months ago

It's mind blowing how some can't see their own actions.

 
 
Heartland American
5.1.9  Heartland American  replied to  epistte @5.1.3    3 months ago

I believe the Dershowitz account of what happened.  

 
 
epistte
5.1.10  epistte  replied to  Vic Eldred @5.1.4    3 months ago
This is not a campus, there are no safe spaces! Freedom of thought prevails here.

I was referring to Heartland complaining about the supposed incivility last weekend.  He doesn't like when people criticize him, so apparently, our free speech rights are limited in his presence.  

Perrie also brought the issue up.

 
 
epistte
5.1.11  epistte  replied to  Heartland American @5.1.9    3 months ago
I believe the Dershowitz account of what happened.

Believing that his lies are truth does not make it so. A lie doesn't become factual because you agree with it. 

What you just admitted to is a confirmation bias.


In psychology and cognitive science, confirmation bias (or confirmatory bias) is a tendency to search for or interpret information in a way that confirms one's preconceptions, leading to statistical errors.

Confirmation bias is a type of cognitive bias and represents an error of inductive inference toward confirmation of the hypothesis under study.

Confirmation bias is a phenomenon wherein decision makers have been shown to actively seek out and assign more weight to evidence that confirms their hypothesis, and ignore or underweigh evidence that could disconfirm their hypothesis.

As such, it can be thought of as a form of selection bias in collecting evidence.


 
 
Trout Giggles
5.1.12  Trout Giggles  replied to  Vic Eldred @5.1.4    3 months ago

It becomes uncivil when you and the other righties start calling people names and insult them or pull out your large paint brushes and say the nastiest things you can say about liberals/leftist/Democrats.

Now just admit that you do this and we can call it a day

 
 
epistte
5.1.13  epistte  replied to  Greg Jones @5.1.7    3 months ago
You do the same thing...the old pot and kettle thingy.

Please illustrate the incivility that I create?  How many threads do I seed on a daily basis?

 
 
Thrawn 31
5.1.14  Thrawn 31  replied to  epistte @5.1.1    3 months ago

Author called off topic {SP}

 
 
epistte
5.1.15  epistte  replied to  Thrawn 31 @5.1.14    3 months ago
Removed for context

Author called off topic {SP}

 
 
Heartland American
5.1.16  Heartland American  replied to  Thrawn 31 @5.1.14    3 months ago

Removed for context {SP}

 
 
Heartland American
5.1.17  Heartland American  replied to  epistte @5.1.15    3 months ago

Removed for context {SP}

 
 
devangelical
5.1.18  devangelical  replied to  Heartland American @5.1.17    3 months ago
The seeder is always off topic on any seed.

That's no lie.

 
 
Heartland American
5.1.19  Heartland American  replied to  devangelical @5.1.18    3 months ago

So then don’t talk about the seeder instead of the seeded article topic.  

 
 
Heartland American
5.1.20  Heartland American  replied to  epistte @5.1.3    3 months ago

So the stuff I seed is partisan.  So what!  So am I.  So is almost everyone here.  We all seed articles.  The real issue is the quality and tone of our own words in conversation about a given seed.  

 
 
Heartland American
5.1.21  Heartland American  replied to  Vic Eldred @5.1.4    3 months ago

The bottom line.  bow to youapplausethumbs up

 
 
Heartland American
5.1.22  Heartland American  replied to  MUVA @5.1.8    3 months ago

You are right!  la de da

 
 
Heartland American
5.1.23  Heartland American  replied to  epistte @5.1.10    3 months ago

I am never the issue of a seed. The topic of the seeded article is the issue to be discussed, not the seeder or the author or the source.  I think that going off topic to attack any of the seeder, author, or source of a seed should be a double coc violation.  

 
 
Heartland American
5.1.24  Heartland American  replied to  Trout Giggles @5.1.12    3 months ago

I don’t call anyone names or personally attack anyone here on this site.  

 
 
Heartland American
5.1.25  Heartland American  replied to  epistte @5.1.13    3 months ago

Seeds don’t cause incivility.  Peoples comments back and forth that stray from the topic of the seed are what causes incivility.  What most on the left do is call any seeded opinion from mainstream conservative sources uncivil in an attempt at content control to be able to partially gag what their ideological opponents can seed or say while making threats to violate the coc in incivility and personal attack if something appears that “offends” them.  Cry 😢 me a river!  

 
 
Sunshine
5.1.26  Sunshine  replied to  Heartland American @5.1.25    3 months ago

spot on Heart!

 
 
Kathleen/Butterfie
5.1.27  Kathleen/Butterfie  replied to  Heartland American @5.1.25    3 months ago

I have noticed that your seeds have not been deleted, so I guess they are fine to post. I have seen seeds about the left and right point of views, so if the members have a problem with the seed that is allowed, maybe they should just bypass it and go to another thread. No, I have not seen you call anyone names, but I sure have seen some others make snide remarks.

 
 
Kathleen/Butterfie
5.1.28  Kathleen/Butterfie  replied to  Greg Jones @5.1.6    3 months ago

Yes, I have seen plenty of those.

 
 
Heartland American
5.1.29  Heartland American  replied to  Sunshine @5.1.26    3 months ago

Thanks.  I bow to youBig hugs

 
 
Heartland American
5.1.30  Heartland American  replied to  Kathleen/Butterfie @5.1.27    3 months ago

Well they nailed one this morning.  The investors Business Daily article about the far left response to the passing of Barbara Bush.  They swamped the seed with personal attacks on the seeder rather than deal with the hate expressed by the leftists the seed was about and made me the issue instead.  When I flagged the off topic posts they simply collapsed the seed newsvine style rather than remove the off topic posts.  

 
 
Kavika
5.1.31  Kavika   replied to  Heartland American @5.1.30    3 months ago

Did you miss the far rights response to Mrs. Bush's death..

Here it is for you....Roger Stone, one of Trump's friends. 

  https://www.infowars.com/roger-stone-barbara-bush-is-on-her-way-to-hell/

 
 
Heartland American
5.1.32  Heartland American  replied to  Kavika @5.1.31    3 months ago

Then make a seed about it.  

 
 
Kavika
5.1.33  Kavika   replied to  Heartland American @5.1.32    3 months ago

It's being discussed on another thread...You should join in.

 
 
Raven Wing
5.1.34  Raven Wing  replied to  Kavika @5.1.33    3 months ago

Don't hold your breath on that happening.

 
 
Heartland American
5.1.35  Heartland American  replied to  Kavika @5.1.33    3 months ago

Not a fan of stone and some others in Trumps list of long term friends.  No real reason to go there.  

 
 
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