Another Conservative Revolt in California: The State of Jefferson

Another Conservative Revolt in California: The State of Jefferson
Via:   heartland-american
Created:   2 weeks ago
Comments:   264

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California is a diverse, populous state full of potential. Yet for residents in twenty-one counties in Northern California—and they are particular about their truly northern status compared to San Francisco—they feel left out. I learned first-hand about the struggles for these rugged salt-of-the earth conservatives during a three-day visit to the region. I gave two speeches on conservative activism and to recruit help for the fight against California’s increasingly unpopular sanctuary state law, SB 54.

“North State” is so far north, the closest airport is in Medford, Oregon. The region stretches from California’s northwesternmost county, Del Norte, to the northeastern corner of Modoc County, down to Tuolumne County (which just opted out of SB 54). The citizens want more than respect. They want to form their own new state: Jefferson. The namesake comes from President Thomas Jefferson’s vision of a free republic emerging in the Pacific Northwest and a desire for more regional autonomy.

“To the rest of the state, we don’t exist” says Louis Gliatto, the head of the Yreka (not Eureka) Tea Party and Siskiyou County Committee member for “Citizens for Fair Representation.” To prove how out of touch the Rest of California (ROC) has become, Tehama and Siskiyou counties were the first jurisdictions to opt out of SB 54, one month before Los Alamitos passed its own Constitution Compliance ordinance. The two North State counties openly declared that they would comply with federal law. How could the press have missed this? A county of 44,000 residents deserves to be recognized for taking that bold step.

This new state project is not new, yet few know about it. In the late 1870’s, the state legislature was limited to 120 representatives, but the state population has skyrocketed. Only until the 1930s did legislative districts account for size and population for representation in Sacramento. In 1941, this spread-out conservative community of ranchers, loggers, and farmers initiated the movement to break away, frustrated by the growing disconnect and lack of representation from Sacramento. Today, three state senators and six assembly members must compete with the dominant LA and Bay Area delegations.

The Jefferson movement faded away quickly in the wake of World War II, but California’s reckless escalation of progressive policies has revived the Jefferson movement for the last five years. In northern cities and along the roads, Jefferson signs and flags (a green field featuring a gold prospector’s pan with two Xs’s to represent the sense of being double-crossed by the rest of California) gently stand out or wave under many of the American flags, all on proud display throughout the region. Despite the left-wing tilt of Mendocino, Sonoma, and Marin counties, Jefferson residents are down-to-earth entrepreneurs, engineers, and invested farmers. They laugh about the differences between Humboldt County, with its commercial kush and tie-dyed shirts; and Siskiyou County, where lush, verdant pastures match the unofficial banner, and colorful sunsets greet the peaceful homesteaders. Jeffersonians vocally oppose commercial marijuana, too, as its illegal cultivation and distribution (despite the passage of pro-pot initiative Prop 64 in 2016) has caused violent crime and corruption to spike.

Hosted at the Bacigalupi Ranch—owned by husband Jerry and wife Donna with their daughter Debbie—I witnessed a new world in the same state, and I connected with hard-working conservative activists in their own right. I discovered that I wasn’t the only town mouse in a land that would please a country heart. Many Siskiyou County residents relocated to escape the expensive busyness of San Francisco and Los Angeles. Another woman relocated for health reasons. Other residents owned thriving businesses in the Bay Area, but they couldn’t stand the liberal politics any longer.

Republican leaders in the region joked that they had come to Northern California for an easy retirement, but now they face a new set of political fights. Bringing wealth and prosperity to Jefferson, they still chafe under the progressive tyranny of Sacramento, and it shows. Democratic Party micromanaging has wiped out a once-thriving timber industry. City markers from thirty years ago represent once-bustling communities which have all but disappeared or gone dormant. Welfarism and drug abuse have grown rapidly because of economic stagnation and political persecution. Jefferson farms feed the state and country, but in return the political class feeds off their money, work, and property. The Democratic leaders are now targeting their dams for full removal (read “destruction”), which would ruin farms, homes, and businesses along the Klamath River. All the “Damn the Dams!” talk has forced down property values and diminished hopes of relief within Jefferson.

Taking a tour of the Bacigalupi ranch, I learned directly about California’s burdens on the region’s ranchers. Jerry wanted to expand a man-made lake on his own property. He put off the project for one decade, then found out that project’s fee ballooned from $800 to $5000 a year. Frustrated, Jerry abandoned his development plans for his own property. Fortunately, Jeffersonians don’t take the government’s abuse lightly. Mark Baird, one of the leaders of the Jefferson movement, recounted how they defend their property. When Fish and Wildlife employees threatened any kind of overreach against his property, Baird responded: “Bring your gun. You’re going to need it.” Those officials never came back. This story inspired me as to how Jefferson residents can increase their autonomy. “Why not enact sanctuary for gun owners as Illinois has? Demand that your county supervisors pass a constitutional carry ordinance to counter Sacramento’s gun grabbing.” The residents liked the idea.

The best idea, of course, has been the Jefferson movement. With standing committees in twenty-one widespread counties, plus a pending federal lawsuit, the State of Jefferson is alive and kicking, reminding us of the eternal promises outlined in the Declaration of Independence: “Whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government.” Considering their efforts and successes, the name “Jefferson” is all the more fitting for this active, conservative region of  California.   https://townhall.com/columnists/arthurschaper/2018/05/13/another-conservative-revolt-in-california-the-state-of-jefferson-n2480198

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Heartland American
1  Heartland American    2 weeks ago

Secessionists complain that public policy is driven by the large metropolitan regions, and that urban legislators are constantly attacking their way of life. At the Yreka event in 2011, for instance, eight sheriffs from both states vowed to defy federal rules limiting public access to public lands. Locals decried plans to demolish dams along the Klamath River. They say that no one listens to them.

“This is the beginning of a discussion about having a different set of rules for urban communities and rural communities because our lifestyles are so different,” Richard Marshall, president of the Siskiyou Water Users and a Fort Jones resident, told me. “We’re having a discussion, not a revolution.”

It’s a shorter drive from San Diego to El Paso, Texas, than it is from San Diego to Yreka. It’s still a four-and-a-half-hour drive to remote and mountainous Yreka from Sacramento, which explains why rural residents want regulations tailored to their unique needs.

Although secession has a conservative bent — with its focus on gun-rights, and complaints about land-use restrictions and oddball priorities in the Capitol — it’s not entirely right wing. Marijuana farmers and free spirits in the rural coastal counties, such as Humboldt, have also complained about indifference from far-off officials.

This, obviously, wouldn’t be the first time a new state was created in America, a nation which broke off from another country. Yet some editorialists have expressed outrage at this modest act of defiance.

The Sacramento Bee’s editorial page, known to champion the causes of California’s poor and downtrodden, couldn’t muster any sympathy for hard-pressed north-state residents. The vote is a “juvenile stunt,” it harumphed, as it used the county’s plight (an old population, high poverty rate and dependence on government jobs) as evidence that “seceding would only make Siskiyou’s problems worse.”

Siskiyou residents say that the county is such a basket case because the government’s environmental rules have limited opportunities for logging, farming and fishing. The population would be younger if people could get jobs.

Siskiyou residents say they aren’t happy that they depend on government.

Reacting to such big-city criticism, the Chico Enterprise-Record, in Butte County, reminded readers that the secession vote is about opposing oppressive regulations, skewed priorities and resource grabs that emanate from “detached” Sacramento: “The folks in Siskiyou County just got tired of outsiders telling them what they could and couldn’t do.” The movement, it argued, is designed to get government officials to “listen up.”   https://www.google.com/amp/s/reason.com/archives/2013/09/13/why-a-secessionist-movement-is-brewing-i/amp

 
 
SteevieGee
1.1  SteevieGee  replied to  Heartland American @1    2 weeks ago

The state of jefferson is nothing but a ploy to put 2 more Republican senators in Washington.  If San Francisco voted to join them they'd probably give up the whole thing.

 
 
Heartland American
1.1.1  Heartland American  replied to  SteevieGee @1.1    2 weeks ago

As opposed to the ploy to make DC a state to make  2 additional democrat senators.  As to SF.  Forget about it. They are exactly the kind of intolerant control freak type of people we are trying escape the control and occupation of.  The 3 California split into 3 13-14 million pop. States does that and we’d be in rebellion against that state too.  

 
 
epistte
1.1.2  epistte  replied to  Heartland American @1.1.1    2 weeks ago

If you had any knowledge of the US Constitution you would know that DC is not and cannot be a state.

The lack of statehood for the capital is enshrined in the Constitution. Article 1, Section 8, Clause 17 of the document reads, “[The Congress shall have Power] To exercise exclusive Legislation in all Cases whatsoever, over such District (not exceeding ten Miles square) as may, by Cession of particular States, and the Acceptance of Congress, become the Seat of the Government of the United States.”

In his Federalist number 43 essay published in 1788, James Madison discusses the national government’s right to exclusive legislation over the district, not exceeding 10 miles square, which was to be chosen as the seat of government, the national capital which in 1790 became the District of Columbia.

The objective behind this was that the Founders’ intention was for the nation’s capital to remain autonomous and not subject to political pressure from a state government. In other words, the Founders worried that if the capital were to be a state, the members of the federal government would be unduly beholden to the state simply by power of proximity to the seats. To avoid this, they specifically crafted the Constitution so that the District would not be within a state.

 
 
Heartland American
1.1.3  Heartland American  replied to  epistte @1.1.2    2 weeks ago

So barring a constitutional amendment,  that leaves Puerto Rico as the other democrat senate power grab besides the one on the November ballot to divide Ca. into three states which would give democrats 4 extra senators.  

 
 
devangelical
1.1.4  devangelical  replied to  Heartland American @1.1.3    2 weeks ago

6 total, eventually. Most of those old Nocal teabags will be dead inside 10 years. 8, with Puerto Rico. 

 
 
Heartland American
1.1.5  Heartland American  replied to  devangelical @1.1.4    2 weeks ago

No.  There’s already two democrat senators in CA. Making two more states as proposed by initiative would add 4 more democrat senators.  I could see congress giving approval if the northern state was Jefferson and the 11 million in the rest of North California were divided equally between Ca and SoCal and the result was two new GOP senators and two New Democrat senators.  

 
 
pat wilson
1.1.6  pat wilson  replied to  Heartland American @1.1.1    2 weeks ago
The 3 California split into 3 13-14 million pop. States does that and we’d be in rebellion against that state too.

Okay, please interpret that into english. I've read it several times and can't understand it. Might be the medical marijuana having an effect but I don't think so. 

 
 
devangelical
1.1.7  devangelical  replied to  Heartland American @1.1.5    2 weeks ago

Shit in one hand and wish for Jefferson in the other and watch which hand fills faster.

 
 
epistte
1.1.8  epistte  replied to  Heartland American @1.1.3    2 weeks ago
that leaves Puerto Rico as the other democrat senate power grab besides the one on the November ballot to divide Ca. into three states which would give democrats 4 extra senators.

You're correct.

What nutjob told you that DC was trying to become a state?  Did you ever bother to fact-check that wild claim?

I'd be surprised if PR became a state in less than 10 years. 20 years is more likely, if it ever happens.

 
 
loki12
1.1.9  loki12  replied to  epistte @1.1.8    2 weeks ago
What nutjob told you that DC was trying to become a state?

How about the fact that 85% of the DC residents voted to become a state.  Maybe NPR, What not idiot told you they didn't want to be a state?

https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2016/11/09/501412360/d-c-votes-overwhelmingly-to-become-51st-state

Advisory Referendum B — Statehood Proposal


 
 
epistte
1.1.10  epistte  replied to  loki12 @1.1.9    2 weeks ago

HuffPo also said this,


”There will be many twists and turns ahead ― just like there have been good days and not so good days in DC’s history,” she said in an accompanying statement, “but we take this monumental step forward together, we can be sure that DC’s best days are ahead of us.” 


One twist is that, should the District become a state, two more seats would be added to the Senate. According to The Washington Post, this has drawn resistance from Republicans, as those seats would likely be held by Democrats, who have an overwhelming majority in the District.


That means Tuesday’s big win for the Republicans, in both the presidency and the U.S. House, will likely make the petition’s final approval by Congress a dead issue.


 
 
Heartland American
1.1.11  Heartland American  replied to  pat wilson @1.1.6    2 weeks ago

It’s clear enough.  If there were a three state split like the one on the November ballot, we’d be in rebellion vs. that North California as we are now against Californication. It would be no better for us than the current situation.  

 
 
Heartland American
1.1.12  Heartland American  replied to  epistte @1.1.10    2 weeks ago

A DC for Jefferson trade could happen someday soon.  

 
 
loki12
1.1.13  loki12  replied to  epistte @1.1.10    2 weeks ago

You made a snarky statement and are wrong. 85% of the people of DC told him they wanted to be a state by their vote. So my question, what idiot told you they didn’t?

 
 
loki12
1.1.14  loki12  replied to  Heartland American @1.1.11    2 weeks ago

Did you see where a communist shithead state legislator entered a bill to remove Washington or Lincolns birthday holiday from the education calendar and replace it with May day? yes he would rather celebrate "socialist workers day"  You have some real winners out there HA.

 
 
Heartland American
1.1.15  Heartland American  replied to  loki12 @1.1.14    2 weeks ago

Much of my so called state and many of its coastal urban population truly do suck big time.  

 
 
nightwalker
1.1.16  nightwalker  replied to  SteevieGee @1.1    2 weeks ago

Perhaps it's more like a pack of dogs trying to tear a piece out of a weak and sickly country, hoping they'll get overlooked or ignored with everything that's going on if they suck up to trump enough. I'm sure that their state laws would be awesome.

LOL I am always amused by the fact the more anti-U.S. a group is, the harder they work to hang a patriotic sign in front of it. Wonderful how people can convince themselves of anything, like Jefferson would WANT them to do this, it fits in so well with what they wanted to do anyway. Why without Jefferson, they'd be just a bunch of ultra-conservative people who want to RULE their own state.

It's odd how much time certain people will spend looking for loopholes (real or imagined) they can take advantage of.

Really? the "you better bring your guns" stuff again? I hope they have enough women to hide behind in the true U.S. Patriot fashion.

 
 
devangelical
1.1.17  devangelical  replied to  nightwalker @1.1.16    2 weeks ago

Anymore, the US election campaigns really don't start in earnest until a few teabags threaten their 2nd amendment solutions.

 
 
Heartland American
1.1.18  Heartland American  replied to  nightwalker @1.1.16    2 weeks ago

Talk about a bitter hate filled sweeping generalization screed against the people of the State of Jefferson.  

 
 
nightwalker
1.1.19  nightwalker  replied to  Heartland American @1.1.18    one week ago

(yawn), I know, I know, you're just terribly misunderstood.

 
 
Heartland American
1.1.20  Heartland American  replied to  nightwalker @1.1.19    one week ago

Actually we are much like the population of Idaho, Utah, Nebraska, or rural and exurb Texas.  A patriotic and easy to understand population.  

 
 
Skrekk
1.1.21  Skrekk  replied to  Heartland American @1.1.20    one week ago
Actually we are much like the population of Idaho, Utah, Nebraska, or rural and exurb Texas.

Indeed - all of those places still have a problem with white supremacists.

 
 
Heartland American
1.1.22  Heartland American  replied to  Skrekk @1.1.21    one week ago

They are a tiny fraction of the population in any state including those.  The one thing the people in all those states have in common is being far better higher quality people with better values than those who inhabit the urban coastal regions of this state.  

 
 
pat wilson
1.1.23  pat wilson  replied to  Heartland American @1.1.20    one week ago

Face Palm

 
 
Dulay
1.1.24  Dulay  replied to  Heartland American @1.1.15    one week ago
Much of my so called state and many of its coastal urban population truly do suck big time.

You should start with your own county. Your leader and his cronies have said for years that y'all need Shasta County. I can't help but note that there isn't a "initiative' on the 2018 ballot in Shasta County about your obsession. You can't even get it on the ballot in your own County where you insist that it has overwhelming support. 

 
 
Heartland American
1.1.25  Heartland American  replied to  Dulay @1.1.24    one week ago

We already got a petition of the majority of registered voters in the county and are already a part of the Jefferson movement.  The November election will have the three liberal California’s on the ballot.  

 
 
Dulay
1.1.26  Dulay  replied to  Heartland American @1.1.25    one week ago
We already got a petition of the majority of registered voters in the county and are already a part of the Jefferson movement.

Quite a bit of deflection there xx. The FACT is, an 'unofficial' petition doesn't do squat and in many of the cases where signatures have been reviewed on 'official' petitions, they didn't pass muster.

Secondly, I call bullshit.

IF you had a petition with the just 10% of the voters in Shasta County, there would be a measure to vote on your dystopia on the ballot this year. There IS NOT. 

The November election will have the three liberal California’s on the ballot.

Wait! Did you just admit that there are liberals in your 'dystopia'? Oh and it looks like they are 'running' unopposed. 

 
 
Skrekk
1.1.27  Skrekk  replied to  Heartland American @1.1.25    one week ago
We already got a petition of the majority of registered voters in the county and are already a part of the Jefferson movement.

Be sure to forward your petition to the feds so that Homeland Security knows which extremist groups to watch closely.

 
 
Gordy327
1.1.28  Gordy327  replied to  Skrekk @1.1.27    one week ago
Be sure to forward your petition to the feds so that Homeland Security knows which extremist groups to watch closely.

Especially since he has already declared other areas of California to be enemies, with statements like "We intend to be the enemy within as long as we have to be occupied by that regime" and engages in activities that purposely intends (economic) harm on others, as he states: "If we can’t be free of you all, we might as well become a parasite and bleed you dry until you release us."

It sounds as if he just declared America to be the "enemy" and takes steps to cause some harm. 

 
 
Skrekk
1.1.29  Skrekk  replied to  Gordy327 @1.1.28    one week ago

Here in WI everyone who signed the petition to recall Asshole Walker got put on a list of "no state contracts" and other similar retaliatory measures, including a student member of the University board who had been nominated by Walker......until Walker learned that the student had signed the petition.

 
 
Heartland American
1.2  Heartland American  replied to  Heartland American @1    2 weeks ago

It’s good that the national conservative media now recognizes that they have conservative allies here in this god forsaken place who are willing to openly side with them and the President against our own state government and let it and those who power it know that we openly side with them, Trump, the federal government, and other conservative states in outright open rebellion against the Sacramento regime and its coastal urban power base.  Be it Jefferson, guns, sanctuary, the constitution, education, economic development, jobs, we are on the side of America against California.  

 
 
Tessylo
1.3  Tessylo  replied to  Heartland American @1    one week ago

Another conservative revolt?  All I see is that 'conservatives are revolting'

 
 
epistte
2  epistte    2 weeks ago

How many more Jefferson threads is Heartland/C4P going to create? Couldn't he just bump his previous Jefferson threads instead of clogging the tracker with this fantasy?

 
 
Heartland American
2.1  Heartland American  replied to  epistte @2    2 weeks ago

This is a new article and we are now working in concert with the anti gun control and anti sanctuary movements elsewhere in the state to broaden our overall rebellion against all things Californication.  Statehood is our eternally lasting goal until it’s achieved.  

 
 
epistte
2.1.1  epistte  replied to  Heartland American @2.1    2 weeks ago

Jefferson also has a heroin problem, but maybe God will cure it because I doubt that you will have the tax dollars to address the issue medically.


EUREKA, Calif. — The dirty needles can be found scattered among the pine and brush, littering the forest floor around Eureka, a town long celebrated as a gateway to the scenic Redwood Empire. They are the debris of a growing heroin scourge that is gripping the remote community in Northern California.

While the state as a whole has one of the lowest overall opioid-related death rates in the country, a sharp rise in heroin use across the rural north in recent years has raised alarms. In Humboldt County, the opioid death rate is five times higher than the state average, rivaling the rates of states like Maine and Vermont that have received far more national attention.

The problem is exacerbated here in Eureka, the county seat, by a sizable homeless population that is growing amid an extreme lack of affordable housing and a changing, weakened economy that relies heavily on tourism. The combined ills have devastated a particularly vulnerable community that is often overlooked in the state. Now those problems are spilling into public view, sparking grievances and anger among the town’s residents.

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/05/08/us/california-heroin-opioid.html

 
 
Heartland American
2.1.2  Heartland American  replied to  epistte @2.1.1    2 weeks ago

Humboldt County is not a part of the Jefferson movement and hasn’t asked to be to this point.  The actual Jefferson is Mendocino and Lake counties, the valley and eastern mountain counties from the Oregon and Nevada borders south to the Colusa/YOLO county line on I-5 , the counties that border on Sacramento county east of Yolo and east of that county running south to Sonora, Ca and its county.  Alpine, Del Norte, and Humboldt counties would remain in Ca.  

 
 
Heartland American
2.1.3  Heartland American  replied to  epistte @2.1.1    2 weeks ago

Jefferson’s actual drug problems would be alleviated by statehood.  We have all the problems we have now because we are a part of California.  California is why we have the problems we have and is the disease, not any sort of cure.  

 
 
pat wilson
2.1.4  pat wilson  replied to  Heartland American @2.1.2    2 weeks ago

The Lake counties are just as bad with meth and heroin.

 
 
epistte
2.1.5  epistte  replied to  Heartland American @2.1.3    2 weeks ago
California is why we have the problems we have and is the disease, not any sort of cure.

Where do you get this nonsense? Is it in the same place where you learned that DC was trying to become a state?

What is the supposed Jeffersonian cure for heroin addiction? 

 
 
Heartland American
2.1.6  Heartland American  replied to  pat wilson @2.1.4    2 weeks ago

There is a Lake County in California and one in Oregon.  Both are in the Jefferson movement.  

 
 
devangelical
2.1.7  devangelical  replied to  pat wilson @2.1.4    2 weeks ago

Drug addiction is a social perk of the goober paradise.

 
 
Heartland American
2.1.8  Heartland American  replied to  devangelical @2.1.7    2 weeks ago

So NYC, Baltimore, Washington DC, Chicago, SF, Oakland, LA are a goober paradise?  

 
 
epistte
2.1.9  epistte  replied to  Heartland American @2.1.8    one week ago

These are the states with the biggest drug addictions.

1. Alabama has the most opioid prescriptions in the U.S., with 142.9 prescriptions for every 100 residents. Hawaii has the least, with 52 opioid prescriptions for every 100 Hawaiians.

2. West Virginia has the most drug overdose deaths, with 42 fatal overdoses for every 100,000 residents. That rate is six times higher than Nebraska, which has the fewest overdose deaths with 7 per 100,000 residents.

 
 
DRHunk
2.1.10  DRHunk  replied to  Heartland American @2.1.3    one week ago

Will becoming a state solve this problem?

Crime Rates

(per 100,000) Redding USA
Crime Rate (Overall) 5,832 4,506
Murder Rate 3.1 6
Robbery Rate 110 148
Rape Rate 69 30
Assault Rate 1,914 644
Burglary Rate 905 726
Forced Entry Rate 388 417
Larceny Rate 2,460 2,185
Auto Theft Rate 370 362
 
 
DRHunk
2.1.11  DRHunk  replied to  DRHunk @2.1.10    one week ago

Assault crimes are off the damn charts. Mugging tourists?

Rape more than double the average...holy shit.

 
 
Trout Giggles
2.1.12  Trout Giggles  replied to  DRHunk @2.1.11    one week ago

Lots of anger in that town......

 
 
Heartland American
2.1.13  Heartland American  replied to  DRHunk @2.1.10    one week ago

Once we are not part of Californication we won’t be getting a lot of their parolees released up here.  

 
 
Dulay
2.1.14  Dulay  replied to  Heartland American @2.1.13    one week ago
Once we are not part of Californication we won’t be getting a lot of their parolees released up here.

So even your parolees won't want to return to your dystopia. 

 
 
epistte
2.1.15  epistte  replied to  Heartland American @2.1.13    one week ago
Californication we won’t be getting a lot of their parolees released up here.

Why would a parolee from LA or San Francisco come to Redding when they don't have any jobs?

 
 
Heartland American
2.1.16  Heartland American  replied to  epistte @2.1.15    one week ago

It’s where the state releases them to keep them far from their original environment where they got into trouble.  Many homeless and welfare recipients come here too because their benefits stretch further in our lower cost of living environment.  

 
 
Dulay
2.1.17  Dulay  replied to  Heartland American @2.1.16    one week ago
It’s where the state releases them to keep them far from their original environment where they got into trouble.

Bullshit.  http://law.onecle.com/california/penal/3003.html

Many homeless and welfare recipients come here too because their benefits stretch further in our lower cost of living environment.

Your economy CREATES 'home grown' issues with homelessness and welfare recipients. Redding is being sued because your lack of affordable housing and YOU want your citizens to be poorer because you think it will be a catalyst for your cause. 

 
 
Heartland American
2.1.18  Heartland American  replied to  Dulay @2.1.17    one week ago

We have plenty of affordable housing and we have to fight city hall every time they try to infill low income apartment complexes in empty spaces in the middle of existing housing developments.  We have built them on the outskirts of the city limits and have a decent supply.  Our housing costs are much lower than most of Ca and there’s a city of 10k population to the south of us that is lower cost as is another city of 10k population north of us.  Another town 30 miles south is less expensive still.  With development fees and taxes the way they are, few developers will build a subdivision like mine with 1000 sq ft 3 BR 1.5 bath homes with living/ dining room, kitchen dinette, a single car garage with washer/dryer hookups and a patio on a 70x110 lot.  There’s just no profit in that anymore.  And the big city progressives are in no place to lecture us about affordable housing in our neighborhoods.  

 
 
Kavika
2.1.19  Kavika   replied to  Heartland American @2.1.18    one week ago
We have built them on the outskirts of the city limits

Perfect, the other side of the tracks...LOL 

 
 
Heartland American
2.1.20  Heartland American  replied to  Kavika @2.1.19    one week ago

Ridiculous considering that there is really fine and even wealthy housing in the unincorporated areas just beyond the city to the east and west.  We border on the city to the north and the area to the south on I-5 between Redding and the next town is permanently protected agricultural land.  It’s time for all the NIMBY’s in our coastal urban areas to allow for the creation of low cost single family housing in their areas.  

 
 
Dulay
2.1.21  Dulay  replied to  Heartland American @2.1.18    one week ago
We have plenty of affordable housing

There are THREE apartments for rent in Redding for under $700 a month, which BTFW is WAY MORE than I pay for my mortgage. 

There’s just no profit in that anymore.

Not everyone NEEDS a 1000 sq. ft. 

Secondly, perhaps you might think about how media coverage of your 'dystopia' is scaring investors and developers off. 

Oh and instead of letting people have a little shelter out of the weather, your 'Christian' friends there in Redding fenced off buildings with overhangs and fired on the tents of homeless people. There have been raids and quite a bit of violence against the homeless over this and last year.  

And the big city progressives are in no place to lecture us about affordable housing in our neighborhoods.

It isn't the 'big city progressives' lecturing you. Your own citizens and city leadership are pushing for more affordable housing and social services.

And in order to get what YOU want, you are willing to have your citizen even poorer than they already are but don't want to build LOCAL, affordable housing so they will stay long enough for them to realize the dystopia that you pretend will solve all of their problems. 

 
 
Heartland American
2.1.22  Heartland American  replied to  Dulay @2.1.21    one week ago

I found 9 available.  5 one bedroom, 3 two bedroom, and one three bedroom .  All $700 or less.  

 
 
Dulay
2.1.23  Dulay  replied to  Heartland American @2.1.22    one week ago

Wow 9! How many homeless people did the shelter turn away tonight? 

 
 
Heartland American
2.1.24  Heartland American  replied to  Dulay @2.1.23    one week ago

All on a single site after you falsely claimed there were only three.  The $550.00 one bedroom apartment would cost 3,000.00 in San Francisco.  

 
 
Dulay
2.1.25  Dulay  replied to  Heartland American @2.1.24    one week ago
All on a single site after you falsely claimed there were only three.

Which site? Link? Realtor.com, the site you previously cited shows this:

Redding, CA Affordable Apartments for Rent.

We did not find any listings that match your search

https://www.realtor.com/apartments/Redding_CA/type-apartments/affordable

That being said, even 9 apartments under $700 hardly supports your false claim that Redding has 'plenty of affordable housing'. 

The $550.00 one bedroom apartment would cost 3,000.00 in San Francisco.

Well referring to your link, there's an apartment available in San Francisco for $660. There are 6 pages of apartments in San Francisco UNDER $3000 [your criteria].

 
 
Dulay
2.1.26  Dulay  replied to  Heartland American @2.1.20    6 days ago
We border on the city to the north and the area to the south on I-5 between Redding and the next town is permanently protected agricultural land.

PARTS of it are permanently protected and the Conservatory easement OWNER for much of it is the California Department of Conservation’s California Farmland Conservancy Program (CFCP). The CALIFORNIA that you HATE so vehemently OWNS and CONTROLS those Conservatory easements into perpetuity. Giggle

 
 
DRHunk
2.1.27  DRHunk  replied to  Heartland American @2.1.18    4 days ago

1000sq ft, is tiny, I would be bouncing off the walls in that house.

 
 
Jasper2529
2.1.28  Jasper2529  replied to  Heartland American @2.1.18    4 days ago
With development fees and taxes the way they are, few developers will build a subdivision like mine with 1000 sq ft 3 BR 1.5 bath homes with living/ dining room, kitchen dinette, a single car garage with washer/dryer hookups and a patio on a 70x110 lot.

At 1000 sq. ft. total, those rooms must be very small. I can't imagine a couple or a family of 3-4 living in such tight quarters.

 
 
JBB
2.1.29  JBB  replied to  Jasper2529 @2.1.28    4 days ago
At 1000 sq. ft. total, those rooms must be very small. I can't imagine a couple or a family of 3-4 living in such tight quarters.

That just shows how out of touch average goppers are to how the other half lives.

1,000 sq. ft. in Manhattan is voluminous and would set ya back about $2,000,000.

 
 
Jasper2529
2.1.30  Jasper2529  replied to  JBB @2.1.29    4 days ago
Thanks for showing us how out of touch the  average gopper is to how the other half lives.

What a shame that your comment twisted my non-political opinion into political bigotry.

 
 
Heartland American
2.1.31  Heartland American  replied to  Jasper2529 @2.1.28    3 days ago

It is small but the floor plan wastes little space.  The living/ dining is 12.5’ x 22 feet.  The bedrooms are small.  9x11, 10x11, and 13x11.  The kitchen is narrow so that you can’t fully open the dishwasher and a single door 21 cu ft refrigerator on opposite sides at the same time though a same sized side by side fridge works ok.  

 
 
DRHunk
2.1.32  DRHunk  replied to  Heartland American @2.1.31    3 days ago

The bedrooms are good but I need a big kitchen, I love to cook and needs lots of room to move around and throw pots and pans. One of the factors i looked for when i did my house shopping was that it had to have an island kitchen, otherwise it was a non starter.

 
 
321steve
2.1.33  321steve  replied to  Heartland American @2.1.31    3 days ago
It is small but the floor plan wastes little space.

I've had both small homes and big ones. The best thing about a smaller home is there is less up keep work. Smaller homes are easier to keep up and to keep clean. And ofcourse the cost difference.

Personally even as a single person I still prefer a nice big 3 bedroom home with lots of walking distance if for nothing else but the constant exercise ya get just moving around compared to having everything right at your fingertips in a small home.

Of course when ya live with a pack of dogs like I do ya want all the the space you can get as well. LOL

So IMO, both have their advantages and disadvantages like most things do. 

to each their own. 

 
 
Dulay
2.1.34  Dulay  replied to  DRHunk @2.1.32    3 days ago
One of the factors i looked for when i did my house shopping was that it had to have an island kitchen, otherwise it was a non starter.

I had the same parameters for the interior. Luckily,  I ended up buying a home with a 11x16 master BR and I did get my 24x14 kitchen with a large island. The smallest BR we have is 10x12 and I use it as an office filled it with bookshelves to the ceiling. There's about 4' of floor space to roll around an office chair and pull reference books off of the shelf, some of which are 2 deep. It's a sickness. 

My best decision was to buy a ranch. NO stairs and glad of it. 

 
 
DRHunk
2.1.35  DRHunk  replied to  Dulay @2.1.34    3 days ago

I dread every time i have to go upstairs

 
 
Dulay
2.1.36  Dulay  replied to  DRHunk @2.1.35    3 days ago
I dread every time i have to go upstairs

My mother in law warned us away from stairs. She rheumatoid arthritis and told us when she moved from Wisconsin that her one hope was to find a house that had everything on one level. She LOVES her laundry room next to the kitchen in her house here. She did make the mistake of buying a house that has 4 stairs at the entrance. I removed the shaky handrails and installed some heavy duty ones. I still hold my breath every time she goes up but still can't get her to let me install a ramp like I did @ my mom's house. 

 
 
Heartland American
2.1.37  Heartland American  replied to  Jasper2529 @2.1.30    3 days ago

Well said.  On the other hand, the bicoastal urban elites packed into high density housing arrangements don’t have a clue as to our need to have a single family home with some land around it whether we are rural, exurb, or outer ring suburb.  

 
 
Heartland American
2.1.38  Heartland American  replied to  DRHunk @2.1.32    3 days ago

My kitchen dinette combined are 8’w by 16’ l.  The kitchen end opens into the living room/dining space and there’s a sliding glass door on the dinette end.  I have an LG stainless steel gas range and oven with an overhead as LG microwave/ exhaust fan with a pantry broom closet on one side and the 22 cu ft side by side whirlpool fridge on the other.  On the other side are the cabinets, tile countertop matching that on the floor,  large sink / faucet and an LG built in dishwasher.  That all fits in an 8x10 with the remaining 8x6 being the dinette with a round 4 seat table and a small desk.  

 
 
Heartland American
2.1.39  Heartland American  replied to  Dulay @2.1.36    3 days ago

My laundry is next to the kitchen but out in the one car garage.  My big dream is to turn the garage into a family room with a laundry closet and add a 10x20 garage with a full door on both ends next to it, and add a master bedroom with master bath where 80% of the patio is now behind current garage.  

 
 
epistte
2.1.40  epistte  replied to  Heartland American @2.1.37    3 days ago
On the other hand, the bicoastal urban elites packed into high density housing arrangements don’t have a clue as to our need to have a single family home with some land around it whether we are rural, exurb, or outer ring suburb.

What is the basis of this need to have a single family home on a large plot of land, instead of a want of such home?

 
 
Dulay
2.1.41  Dulay  replied to  Heartland American @2.1.37    3 days ago
On the other hand, the bicoastal urban elites packed into high density housing arrangements don’t have a clue as to our need to have a single family home with some land around it whether we are rural, exurb, or outer ring suburb.

Oh bullshit XX. The American dream has always been a house with a picket fence.

Do you actually think that people living in cities all over this country don't want SPACE? Hell, half of my clients are city dwellers who own 'weekend' homes by the lake or in the dunes precisely because of that desire. MORE than half of 'my peeps' were city dwellers that moved to this area, some still commute to the City to work.

Hell, I lived in Chicago/San Francisco apartments as a kid and as an adult and I ALWAYS wanted to have MORE SPACE. Now I live in a bigger house on more land and in a MUCH more rural area than you do. My house is surrounded on two sides by hundreds of acres of fields. We have deer, fox, possum, mink, raccoons, rabbits and every freaking bird you can think of that share our 2 acre plot. 

 
 
epistte
3  epistte    2 weeks ago
(deleted)
 
 
epistte
3.1  epistte  replied to  epistte @3    2 weeks ago

Please delete double reply.

 
 
Split Personality
3.1.1  Split Personality  replied to  epistte @3.1    2 weeks ago

Ok

 
 
epistte
3.1.2  epistte  replied to  Split Personality @3.1.1    2 weeks ago

Thanks.

 
 
Paula Bartholomew
4  Paula Bartholomew    2 weeks ago

they feel left out

If they now feel left out, it is of their own doing.

 
 
badfish hαηd ⊕ƒ †hε Ωuεεη
5  badfish hαηd ⊕ƒ †hε Ωuεεη    2 weeks ago

I hate to be captain obvious but if you don't like your state, why not just move to one you do like?

 
 
Heartland American
5.1  Heartland American  replied to  badfish hαηd ⊕ƒ †hε Ωuεεη @5    2 weeks ago

Because We like the part of it that we live in and we’d rather stay where we are and separate from California.  We intend to be the enemy within as long as we have to be occupied by that regime.  

 
 
lennylynx
5.1.1  lennylynx  replied to  Heartland American @5.1    2 weeks ago

"We intend to be the enemy within..."

At least you admit it!

 
 
Heartland American
5.1.2  Heartland American  replied to  lennylynx @5.1.1    2 weeks ago

When it comes to being an opponent of the state of California I stand tall and proud.  Jefferson #51! 

 
 
epistte
5.1.3  epistte  replied to  Heartland American @5.1.2    one week ago
When it comes to being an opponent of the state of California I stand tall and proud.

Why don't you go live in an economic backwater like Alabama, Idaho, Mississippi or West Virginia if California is so bad?

 
 
Heartland American
5.1.4  Heartland American  replied to  epistte @5.1.3    one week ago

Those are not economic backwaters.  They all have great places to live.  Besides my family and career are here so I’m not going anywhere.  Also, it’s great being an advocate for such a great cause as the State of Jefferson.  That the city slicker liberals don’t like it means nothing to me.  

 
 
Skrekk
5.1.5  Skrekk  replied to  epistte @5.1.3    one week ago

Skirting the CoC [ph]

 
 
Cerenkov
5.1.6  Cerenkov  replied to  Skrekk @5.1.5    one week ago

I'm surprised you want American companies to support state sponsors of terrorism. I guess it takes all types...

 
 
Skrekk
5.1.7  Skrekk  replied to  Cerenkov @5.1.6    one week ago

Isn't it the US which has been waging a proxy war against Iran with terrorists like the MEK, PJAK, and Jundallah?    Apparently you don't mind it when the terrorists are being paid with your tax dollars.

 
 
Heartland American
5.1.8  Heartland American  replied to  Skrekk @5.1.5    one week ago

The calexit effort is a progressive movement.  People who don’t want to be in America if Trump and the Republicans are in power.  These liberals are attempting a legal secession of California from the USA.  They are attempting again with different leadership.  The Jefferson movement is polar opposite.  We love the USA and hate California.  We intend to be a state within the USA.  We strongly support the GOP congress and Trump even more strongly.  We actively side with the administration against this so called state on the sanctuary movement.  It is ludicrous and ridiculous to compare Calexit to Jefferson.  

 
 
Skrekk
5.1.9  Skrekk  replied to  Heartland American @5.1.8    one week ago
The calexit effort is a progressive movement.

The guy who started it isn't a progressive in any sense of the word - in fact he used to work for the NOM anti-gay hate group.   So his values seem pretty close to yours.

 
 
epistte
5.1.10  epistte  replied to  Heartland American @5.1.8    one week ago
People who don’t want to be in America if Trump and the Republicans are in power.

Breaking off conservative regions from liberal California isn't a progressive ideal, no matter how much you attempt to spin it. This isn't a secessionist idea because these regions are still part of the USA.  Splitting California up into 2-3 states doesn't promote progressive ideas.

 
 
epistte
5.1.11  epistte  replied to  Heartland American @5.1.4    one week ago
Those are not economic backwaters.  They all have great places to live.

Those southern states have a lower quality of life, lower levels of education, lower incomes, more problems of poverty and drug addictions and lower life expectancies.

Also, it’s great being an advocate for such a great cause as the State of Jefferson.

What is your job?

 
 
Dulay
5.1.12  Dulay  replied to  Heartland American @5.1.4    one week ago
That the city slicker liberals don’t like it means nothing to me.

Don't you live in the "City of Redding"? 

 
 
Heartland American
5.1.13  Heartland American  replied to  epistte @5.1.10    one week ago

Calexit isn’t about breaking off conservative pieces of California. It’s about all of California leaving the USA 🇺🇸 to form its own separate nation.  The people pushing that are progressives and they do it to create a progressive utopia here.  I intend to support their effort to leave. We would then break from them and stay in the union like West Virginia did to Virginia in the civil war.  It would be great for us, not only would we not be in the same state as our urban coastal enemies, we wouldn’t even be in the same country as they are.  

 
 
Heartland American
5.1.14  Heartland American  replied to  epistte @5.1.11    one week ago

Wouldn’t you like to know? 

 
 
Heartland American
5.1.15  Heartland American  replied to  Dulay @5.1.12    one week ago

I do now.  It is a rural city of 90,000 with a river running through the center of town and thousands of acres of parks, trails, forestland,  and green belts through out and there isn’t a bigger city in 150 miles in any direction.           

With mountains all around, miles of hiking and biking trails, a river running through it, and national parks nearby, Redding is an outdoor paradise for young and old alike. Cradled by Mount Shasta and Mount Lassen, Redding has 300+ sunny days per year. It's a great place to escape the chill of spring and the gray days of winter, too!

Want a list of possibilities? TIME magazine called Redding the Unofficial Capital of Kayaking for its "weird obsession" with all things paddling. With temperate weather, nearby lakes, and that river in the middle of town, it would be "weird" to not get out and enjoy it all! Let the good times flow with a visit to Whiskeytown National Recreation Area, a great place to kayak, sail, paddleboard, or just float on  your back.   http://www.visitredding.com/mobile/

 
 
epistte
5.1.16  epistte  replied to  Heartland American @5.1.14    one week ago
Wouldn’t you like to know?

Logically, if you a had a decent job you wouldn't be afraid to tell us what it is.

 
 
epistte
5.1.17  epistte  replied to  Heartland American @5.1.15    one week ago
It is a rural city of 90,000 with a river running through the center of town and thousands of acres of parks, trails, forestland,

 You told us before.

I've thought about coming out there to do some fly fishing.

 
 
epistte
5.1.18  epistte  replied to  Heartland American @5.1.13    one week ago
Calexit isn’t about breaking off conservative pieces of California. It’s about all of California leaving the USA

California would never secede.

 
 
Dulay
5.1.19  Dulay  replied to  Heartland American @5.1.15    one week ago
TIME magazine called Redding the Unofficial Capital of Kayaking

Been there, done that. I like the Placerville area for kayaking more. 

Your crime rates are off the charts since I visited there. White folk acting up quite a bit in that area. 

 
 
Raven Wing
5.1.20  Raven Wing  replied to  epistte @5.1.18    one week ago

Absolutely true. There have been people who have said that over the many years and it has never happened yet. Those who who think otherwise are simply living in a fantasy world. 

 
 
epistte
5.1.21  epistte  replied to  Raven Wing @5.1.20    one week ago
Absolutely true. There have been people who have said that over the many years and it has never happened yet. Those who who think otherwise are simply living in a fantasy world.

Brexit has been an economic disaster for the UK so why would the people of California follow that lead?

 
 
Hal A. Lujah
5.1.22  Hal A. Lujah  replied to  Heartland American @5.1.4    one week ago

It's funny seeing a Trump supporter bash "city slickers".  Trump spent his life in the city, as one of the most slick con artist back stabbers this country has ever known.

 
 
Trout Giggles
5.1.23  Trout Giggles  replied to  Hal A. Lujah @5.1.22    one week ago
Trump spent his life in the city,

I bet the man has never dirtied his hands in his life. No calluses, either.

 
 
Hal A. Lujah
5.1.24  Hal A. Lujah  replied to  Trout Giggles @5.1.23    one week ago

You would think he would have suffered some damage from all the incoming STD fire that he constantly dodged in his personal Vietnam.

 
 
Raven Wing
5.1.25  Raven Wing  replied to  epistte @5.1.21    one week ago

"Brexit has been an economic disaster for the UK so why would the people of California follow that lead?"

It will never happen here in California. The majority of the people here in California are not as stupid as some of those who claim to hate the state. California has worked hard to build the stable kind of economy that exists here today, and the people who enjoy the benefits of this state are not going to risk losing all they have worked long and hard for on such a fallacy as Brexit or anything even close to it. Those who think so are simple minded dolts who are simply catfish.

 
 
Raven Wing
5.1.26  Raven Wing  replied to  Trout Giggles @5.1.23    one week ago
I bet the man has never dirtied his hands in his life. No calluses, either.

He never had to, there was always someone else to do that for him. That is why he has absolutely NO clue what the average American people have to go through to make a living every day. Or what it is like to be poor. He has lived high on the hog on other peoples money all his life, and has his own simple minded minions to do his dirty work for him, who he then kicks to the curb at some point. 

 
 
Kavika
5.1.27  Kavika   replied to  Trout Giggles @5.1.23    one week ago

Off topic [ph]

 
 
Raven Wing
5.1.28  Raven Wing  replied to  Kavika @5.1.27    one week ago

Off topic [ph]

 
 
lib50
6  lib50    one week ago

Lol,  do you really believe this crap?  As if the 5th largest economy IN THE WORLD would allow a few people on the fringe to break us up.  Move to Texas.

 
 
Heartland American
6.1  Heartland American  replied to  lib50 @6    one week ago

You’d have that economy without us?  Why would you care if we left?  

 
 
epistte
6.1.1  epistte  replied to  Heartland American @6.1    one week ago
You’d have that economy without us?

Jefferson is not leaving the US and they don't add much economically to California.

 
 
Dulay
6.1.2  Dulay  replied to  epistte @6.1.1    one week ago
Jefferson is not leaving the US and they don't add much economically to California.

Those that DO add to the economy spend quite a bit up there. I used to go fishing and camping throughout the area, for a week at a time. They would dry up without the coastal Californians playing up there. 

 
 
epistte
6.1.3  epistte  replied to  Dulay @6.1.2    one week ago

The state of California and the federal government is spending more than a billion dollars in repairs and upgrades to Oroville Dam. That would not happen if they left. 

https://www.enr.com/keywords/6892-oroville-dam

Jefferson and Calexit are just another Ayn Rand fantasy. 

 
 
Heartland American
6.1.4  Heartland American  replied to  epistte @6.1.1    one week ago

No one ever suggested Jefferson would leave the USA.  We would stay even if the rest of CA left.  Our effort is to leave the state of Californication and become the 51st or 50th state.  Our economy is strong enough for us to be our own self supporting state just as Utah, Idaho, and Nebraska do.  

 
 
Heartland American
6.1.5  Heartland American  replied to  Dulay @6.1.2    one week ago

and we would still be there even if in another state and we’d visit areas still in Ca as well even if we crossed a state line to do so.  

 
 
Heartland American
6.1.6  Heartland American  replied to  epistte @6.1.3    one week ago

California built it and is liable to fix its shortcomings.  The federal water project is a different matter and federal water contracts would remain in force regardless of state boundary lines.  

 
 
Heartland American
6.1.7  Heartland American  replied to  epistte @6.1.1    one week ago

Actually we add nothing to the Ca economy.  We subtract from it as the constitutional spending requirements for education and services causes other counties to spend much more money up here than is generated here.  California would benefit economically if Jefferson was not part of it.  

 
 
epistte
6.1.8  epistte  replied to  Heartland American @6.1.7    one week ago
We subtract from it as the constitutional spending requirements for education and services causes other counties to spend much more money up here than is generated here.

Why would you want to leave when you admit that progressive California has to subsidize your economy?  How would you make up that economic shortfall? 

 You are required to maintain effective public schools and roads, among other 21dst century infrastructure? 

 
 
epistte
6.1.9  epistte  replied to  Heartland American @6.1.6    one week ago
The federal water project is a different matter and federal water contracts would remain in force regardless of state boundary lines.

You would still have to put in the mandated state's share of the project. It's currently 80/20%.  Where is that going to come from when you already admitted that Jefferson would be a taker state?

 
 
epistte
6.1.10  epistte  replied to  Heartland American @6.1.4    one week ago
Our economy is strong enough for us to be our own self supporting state just as Utah, Idaho, and Nebraska do.  

You just admitted that Jefferson would be a taker state so you wouldn't be self-supporting. California would still have to subsidize you, but this time via the federal government instead of via Sacramento.

Actually we add nothing to the Ca economy.  We subtract from it as the constitutional spending requirements for education and services causes other counties to spend much more money up here than is generated here.  California would benefit economically if Jefferson was not part of it.  

 
 
epistte
6.1.12  epistte  replied to  Heartland American @6.1.11    one week ago

This tells me all that I need to know. 


The goals of the State of Jefferson could easily be implemented by lowering taxes

and allowing for the reasonable and responsible use of natural resources to promote business growth.

Lower taxes, less environmental regulation and pillage the natural resources via logging and mining. You'd be another Kansas and Oklahoma. Who gets to clean up the mess that your shortsighted policies would create?

 
 
Heartland American
6.1.13  Heartland American  replied to  epistte @6.1.10    one week ago

We would easily be self supporting.  Besides, even if we took a financial hit becoming our own state, we’d be better off a little poorer if we were no longer politically affiliated with the urban coastal region.  

 
 
Heartland American
6.1.14  Heartland American  replied to  epistte @6.1.12    one week ago

We are not going to make a mess of our environment when we have to live in it and depend upon it for our tourism industry which is one of our most important.  We don’t need liberal micro managers from big cities telling us what’s good for us our how to live.  

 
 
Dulay
6.1.15  Dulay  replied to  Heartland American @6.1.4    one week ago
Our economy is strong enough for us to be our own self supporting state just as Utah, Idaho, and Nebraska do.

Utah, Idaho and Nebraska are NOT self supporting, they are 'taker' states. Digging a whole

 
 
Dulay
6.1.16  Dulay  replied to  Heartland American @6.1.5    one week ago
and we would still be there even if in another state and we’d visit areas still in Ca as well even if we crossed a state line to do so.

Who are you trying to fool? Y'all want to repeal regulations on logging, mining, farming, fishing and hunting. An all out assault on the environment will ensue. BTFW, y'all don't have a pot to piss in now, where is the money going to come from to police your wonderland? How about monitoring water quality, fish and game and ag pollutants? Who is going to pay for the fish nurseries, wildfire management, highway and bridge maintenance?  

Y'all seem to suppose that all of the systems experts that the state and feds are willingly going to remain in your 'utopia'. I'm pretty sure that you're sadly mistaken. IMHO, there are FAR MORE people that live in NoCal who will BEG for transfers and emigrate. No more PG&E and PacifCorp can't handle the volume.

Store up propane and fuel for your generator bro. Your 'economy' will have to run on it for a while. 

 
 
Dulay
6.1.17  Dulay  replied to  Heartland American @6.1.14    one week ago
We are not going to make a mess of our environment when we have to live in it and depend upon it for our tourism industry which is one of our most important.

There is historical and documentary evidence that your statement is bullshit. Y'all pound your chests and talk about being 'business friendly', which translates to deregulation of mining and logging. Hell, y'all ask like you don't have enough arsenic and mercury in your water and soil already. Shasta Lake is under an advisory not to eat the fish. I'm so glad I lived there when I could eat the trout I caught. 

 
 
DRHunk
6.1.18  DRHunk  replied to  Dulay @6.1.17    one week ago

The idea is to also control the water in the lakes and sell it back to "New California" at a premium.  The Jefferson map is targeting mainly lake and waterway counties.

They think no one in actual power understands that. They do, and that is why it will never happen.

 
 
epistte
6.1.19  epistte  replied to  Heartland American @6.1.13    one week ago
Besides, even if we took a financial hit becoming our own state, we’d be better off a little poorer if we were no longer politically affiliated with the urban coastal region.

You previously admitted that you are supported by Sacramento and then the Jefferson propaganda says that they seek to cut taxes.  Where is the necessary money to operate a state going to come from?

Traditionally conservatives have opposed the EPA, corporate and environmental regs so why wouldn't Jefferson pillage the land for profits? This is a fiscal boondoggle from the very start. They even admit it.  

 
 
r.t..b...
6.1.20  r.t..b...  replied to  DRHunk @6.1.18    one week ago
The idea is to also control the water in the lakes and sell it back

Great flick, Chinatown. Much ado about nothing.

 
 
DRHunk
6.1.21  DRHunk  replied to  r.t..b... @6.1.20    one week ago

Heartland has explained that to be the goal in the past when discussing revenue of New Jefferson.

 
 
Kavika
6.1.22  Kavika   replied to  DRHunk @6.1.21    one week ago

It's interesting the ''plans'' that Jeffersonia has. Thus far have haven't been able to manage a one car funeral.

 
 
Dulay
6.1.23  Dulay  replied to  DRHunk @6.1.18    one week ago
They think no one in actual power understands that. They do, and that is why it will never happen.

Well since the insist that the LA basin controls the legislature, they SHOULD realize that they KNOW where their water comes from. In the 80's this agreement was ongoing. Anyone that can read a freaking watershed map understands what they're trying to pull. 

Then they want to pollute the source of all that water and sell the muck they created. 

 
 
epistte
6.1.24  epistte  replied to  Heartland American @6.1.14    one week ago
We are not going to make a mess of our environment when we have to live in it and depend upon it for our tourism industry which is one of our most important.

Every conservative politician seeks to manage the environment as a resource to be sold off for profit. Look at Texas, Alabama, Oklahoma, Kansas, West Va., Pennsylvania, and now Ohio. Drill, mine, deforest and dump is their SOP.

We don’t need liberal micro managers from big cities telling us what’s good for us our how to live.  

You hate their environmental planning and sustainability regulations. 

 Your part of California are already welfare queens in California and now you think that you can become a welfare queen to be supported by all 50 states.   We cannot afford another Kansas, Mississippi, Alabama, West Va. and Oklahoma. 

 
 
lady in black
6.1.25  lady in black  replied to  epistte @6.1.24    one week ago

But doncha know it's going to be a conservative utopia s/

 
 
Heartland American
6.1.26  Heartland American  replied to  Dulay @6.1.15    one week ago

No, they’re not.  California, New York, Illinois, Maryland, Massachusetts, Connecticut are the great taker states or were until this year.  

 
 
Heartland American
6.1.27  Heartland American  replied to  Dulay @6.1.16    one week ago

Simply ridiculous.  No company will leave.  There will be a big incentive for them to move here with lower taxes and right to work rules.  Few individuals would leave and far more would vote with their feet and come here.  Being on I-5 half way between San Diego and Seattle has advantages that would attract business in the right business environment.  People living in Eldorado Hills/Cameron Park and Roseville/Rocklin/Lincoln who work in California would continue to do so.  

 
 
Heartland American
6.1.28  Heartland American  replied to  r.t..b... @6.1.20    one week ago

Nothing would change as a change in state boundaries would have no impact on the existing water contracts or on the federal water project.  

 
 
Kavika
6.1.29  Kavika   replied to  Heartland American @6.1.7    one week ago
California would benefit economically if Jefferson was not part of it.

Probably, but it's little price to pay to keep you under our thumb and in a constant state or ''rebellion''...Not to mention to listen to you whine and cry day after day..

 
 
Heartland American
6.1.30  Heartland American  replied to  epistte @6.1.24    one week ago

Whether we are a state or not has no impact on federal revenues being spent in the counties here. A non argument.  As to the state, we will be a net draw of state tax revenues from the rest to up here as long as we are a part of this screwed up godforsaken no good worst state in the union that we exist to mock and denigrate while we take your money.    

 
 
Heartland American
6.1.31  Heartland American  replied to  Kavika @6.1.29    one week ago

As long as we are a part of a state we want nothing to do with and have nothing but sheer contempt for, we aim to make that cost higher with each passing year. 

 
 
Kavika
6.1.32  Kavika   replied to  Heartland American @6.1.31    one week ago

So you want your welfare benefits increased...LMAO, perfect.

 
 
Kavika
6.1.33  Kavika   replied to  Heartland American @6.1.30    one week ago
we exist to mock and denigrate while we take your money.

LOL, try as you might your not doing a very good job of it. 

 
 
pat wilson
6.1.34  pat wilson  replied to  Heartland American @6.1.13    one week ago
we’d be better off a little poorer

Dude ! You stated a while ago that Walmart is the most expensive store where you will shop ! How can you possible be better off or less poor if Walmart is your Macy's ?

I apologize if that's harsh but the whole pretext is absurd.

 
 
Dulay
6.1.35  Dulay  replied to  Heartland American @6.1.26    one week ago

No, they’re not. California, New York, Illinois, Maryland, Massachusetts, Connecticut are the great taker states or were until this year.

Link? Pardon me if I don't hold my breath. 

Here is my source:

https://taxfoundation.org/states-rely-most-federal-aid/

 
 
pat wilson
6.1.36  pat wilson  replied to  Heartland American @6.1.30    one week ago

So you're proud your community is a drug/crime riddled, "taker" area ?

Bless your heart !

 
 
epistte
6.1.37  epistte  replied to  Heartland American @6.1.30    one week ago
As to the state, we will be a net draw of state tax revenues from the rest to up here as long as we are a part of this screwed up godforsaken no good worst state in the union that we exist to mock and denigrate while we take your money.

The jobs from progressive California pay your share of the bills so you are the welfare queens.

 
 
epistte
6.1.38  epistte  replied to  Kavika @6.1.32    one week ago
So you want your welfare benefits increased...LMAO, perfect.

Typical conservative economics. Call everyone else worthless and lazy while they are the welfare parasites.

If it wasn't for those progressive jobs in  LA, Silicon Vallery and San Fran their life in NorCal would be even worse than it is.

 
 
Heartland American
6.1.39  Heartland American  replied to  Kavika @6.1.32    one week ago

No, it’s s matter of making the occupation as expensive as possible for our enemies in the coastal urban regions.  If we can’t be free of you all, we might as well become a parasite and bleed you dry until you release us.  

 
 
Heartland American
6.1.40  Heartland American  replied to  pat wilson @6.1.34    one week ago

I said Walmart is the most expensive store I choose to shop at.  I also go to Dollar Tree and 99 Cent store.  We have a Macys here and I shop there occasionally when their sales are just right.  

 
 
Heartland American
6.1.41  Heartland American  replied to  Dulay @6.1.35    one week ago

The other states have been subsidizing the states I mentioned for decades with their federal income tax dollars to mask the size of state and local taxes in those states.  With the uniform national cap on mortgage interest deductions and deductions for state and local taxes capped at a uniform level nation wide regardless where we live, Red states will no longer be subsidizing our high cost of living, high housing costs, and high tax rates.  And those of us in inland Ca. now have a tax weapon to turn upon the coastal elites as our housing costs are so much less and so us our cost of living so business now has a reason to locate inland rather than stay in areas their owners and employees have so much higher taxes and mortgages  than they can deduct at the federal level. 

 
 
epistte
6.1.42  epistte  replied to  Heartland American @6.1.39    one week ago
No, it’s s matter of making the occupation as expensive as possible for our enemies in the coastal urban regions.

Release you from what?  You are a member of a society and you must pay your share of taxes to support the standard of living that you want. Cutting taxes for the richest 10% and corporations doesn't help people who actually work for a living. That policy just shifts the taxes burden to others.

 
 
epistte
6.1.43  epistte  replied to  Heartland American @6.1.27    one week ago
Being on I-5 half way between San Diego and Seattle has advantages that would attract business in the right business environment.

Why do people who work for a living support "right to work " laws when those policies don't benefit them?

 
 
Kavika
6.1.44  Kavika   replied to  Heartland American @6.1.39    one week ago

LMAO, what you don't understand the money spent to support so call Jeffersonia is really just chump change to us. Remember we are the elite/urban masters of the state. Your group on the other hand are nothing more than entertainment for us. 

Keep up the good work. 

 
 
Dulay
6.1.45  Dulay  replied to  Heartland American @6.1.41    one week ago
The other states have been subsidizing the states I mentioned for decades with their federal income tax dollars to mask the size of state and local taxes in those states.

Oh but YOU said: California, New York, Illinois, Maryland, Massachusetts, Connecticut are the great taker states or were until this year. So stop deflecting and prove it. Link your source, unless of course you just pulled that out of your nether regions, in which case, I'd rather not see it. 

With the uniform national cap on mortgage interest deductions and deductions for state and local taxes capped at a uniform level nation wide regardless where we live, Red states will no longer be subsidizing our high cost of living, high housing costs, and high tax rates.

Wait! You mean the 'mortgage interest deduction and deductions for state and local taxes' that Trump and the GOP JUST erased from the tax code? 

BTFW, even when those deductions existed, the vast majority of 'red states' were takers. 

And those of us in inland Ca. now have a tax weapon to turn upon the coastal elites as our housing costs are so much less and so us our cost of living so business now has a reason to locate inland rather than stay in areas their owners and employees have so much higher taxes and mortgages than they can deduct at the federal level. 

So what you want to do is 'wealth redistribution', which y'all allegedly decry.

I suggest you visit a real estate website and review the home values in your 'dystopia'. You'll find a that there are quite a few MILLION $+ homes for sale in Redding. 

YOU want the wealthy citizens of your 'dystopia' to get a smaller tax deduction than your middle class citizens. Where is THAT proposal in y'all's 'mission statement'? It sure as hell isn't anywhere in the CFR Complaint. 

Your [Redding] median home value is almost double that of the area where I live. So maybe YOU should get a smaller mortgage deduction than ME, just to 'level the playing field'. After all, you proponents of 'Fair' wouldn't propose a policy that advantaged you over me would you? 

 
 
Dulay
6.1.46  Dulay  replied to  Heartland American @6.1.27    one week ago
Simply ridiculous. No company will leave. There will be a big incentive for them to move here with lower taxes and right to work rules. Few individuals would leave and far more would vote with their feet and come here.

Again, deflection. My comment was about STATE and FEDERAL employees, who BTFW are a disproportionately LARGE percentage of the population of your dystopia. 

Being on I-5 half way between San Diego and Seattle has advantages that would attract business in the right business environment.

WTF is stopping that from happening now? You've cited many of the advantages of your location but have yet to explain WHY the economy STILL SUCKS. It would seem that y'all are squandering your resources. 

People living in Eldorado Hills/Cameron Park and Roseville/Rocklin/Lincoln who work in California would continue to do so.  

Since neither Placer nor El Dorado Counties are actually part of your proposed dystopia [nor is Shasta County], you're absolutely right. Y'all desperately want to pretend that 'declarations' are meaningful. They aren't and you know it. IF you had the support you claim, there would be measures on every 2018 ballot in the counties you pretend are 'part of' your 'State'. 

Which Counties have ACTUALLY VOTED on measures/initiaves to separate and which Counties MAJORITIES have voted to separate? 

Hint: Shasta, Placer and El Dorado counties aren't on that very short list. 

It's quite telling that the 'epicenter' of your 'dystopia' [Redding] can't even get your measure on the ballot in Shasta County. 

 
 
Heartland American
6.1.47  Heartland American  replied to  Dulay @6.1.45    one week ago

Redding, CA Housing Market
$299K
Median Listing Price
$175
Price per Square Foot
$238K
Median Closing Price
713 Homes for Sale
47 Homes for Rent           https://www.realtor.com/local/Redding_CA

 
 
Gordy327
6.1.48  Gordy327  replied to  Heartland American @6.1.31    one week ago

If you don't like the state you're in, move to another. There are 49 others to choose from.

 
 
Heartland American
6.1.49  Heartland American  replied to  Dulay @6.1.46    one week ago

If you love our country and our Constitution - The State of Jefferson Welcomes YOU!   http://soj51.org/filed-declarations/

 
 
Dismayed Patriot
6.1.50  Dismayed Patriot  replied to  Heartland American @6.1.49    one week ago
If you love our country and our Constitution - The State of Jefferson Welcomes YOU!

What if you love your country, constitution and your State?

 
 
Dulay
6.1.51  Dulay  replied to  Heartland American @6.1.47    one week ago

Why do you incessantly deflect? 

 
 
Dulay
6.1.52  Dulay  replied to  Heartland American @6.1.49    one week ago
If you love our country and our Constitution - The State of Jefferson Welcomes YOU!

If I moved into the area I'd join the Keep it California movement. 

 
 
Heartland American
6.1.53  Heartland American  replied to  Dulay @6.1.51    one week ago

The link had a list of all the counties with state of Jefferson declarations and unlike what another suggests, Shasta, Placer, and Eldorado do have them.  Other counties outside our original footprint have asked to join our effort.  

 
 
Heartland American
6.1.54  Heartland American  replied to  Dismayed Patriot @6.1.50    one week ago

I love the constitution, the USA, and Jefferson.  I detest Californication.  

 
 
Raven Wing
6.1.55  Raven Wing  replied to  Dulay @6.1.51    one week ago
Why do you incessantly deflect?

Because that is much easier to do than to tell the truth, or try to find an answer that would be somewhat believable. 

 
 
Raven Wing
6.1.56  Raven Wing  replied to  Heartland American @6.1.54    one week ago
I detest Californication.

Rest assured that "Californication" does not share a lot of love for you either.  

 
 
Skrekk
6.1.57  Skrekk  replied to  lady in black @6.1.25    one week ago
But doncha know it's going to be a conservative utopia s/

"New Somalia" sounds like an apropos name.

 
 
Heartland American
6.1.58  Heartland American  replied to  Raven Wing @6.1.56    one week ago

Good.  We don’t care.  Why would a state of 40 million care if 2 million left?  99% of the time most Californications think it ends at the Bay Area and Sacramento. 

 
 
Dulay
6.1.59  Dulay  replied to  Heartland American @6.1.53    one week ago
The link had a list of all the counties with state of Jefferson declarations and unlike what another suggests, Shasta, Placer, and Eldorado do have them. Other counties outside our original footprint have asked to join our effort.  

'Declarations' are non-binding and have NO legal standing. 

I repeat:

Since neither Placer nor El Dorado Counties are actually part of your proposed dystopia [nor is Shasta County], you're absolutely right. Y'all desperately want to pretend that 'declarations' are meaningful. They aren't and you know it. IF you had the support you claim, there would be measures on every 2018 ballot in the counties you pretend are 'part of' your 'State'.

Which Counties have ACTUALLY VOTED on measures/initiaves to separate and which Counties MAJORITIES have voted to separate?

Hint: Shasta, Placer and El Dorado counties aren't on that very short list.
It's quite telling that the 'epicenter' of your 'dystopia' [Redding] can't even get your measure on the ballot in Shasta County.

 
 
Heartland American
6.1.60  Heartland American  replied to  Dulay @6.1.59    one week ago

A declaration means that supporters of Jefferson in a county got a majority of registered voters in a county to sign a petition for the move which goes around the local county board of supervisors, most of whom are to busy sucking off the teat of the big government Californication pig 🐖 to take a stand. That has happened in all those green counties on the map.   

 
 
Dulay
6.1.61  Dulay  replied to  Heartland American @6.1.60    one week ago
A declaration means that supporters of Jefferson in a county got a majority of registered voters in a county to sign a petition for the move

TOTAL BULLSHIT!

https://www.elections.co.shasta.ca.us/wp-content/uploads/2014/02/How-to-place-Measure.2013.pdf

If proponents collect 10 percent of the entire vote cast or more in the county for all candidates for Governor in the last gubernatorial election, then the governing body must:

1. Adopt the ordinance without alteration at the meeting at which certification is presented or within 10 days after it is presented

2. Place the measure on the ballot at the next statewide election occurring not less than 88 days after the date of the order

3. Order a report. Once the report is presented, the BOS must either adopt the ordinance within 10 days or order an election

As I have stated MULTIPLE TIMES, IF y'all had only 10% of registered voters signatures on a petition to have a county wide vote about your dystopia, you would have said measure on the 2018 Shasta County ballot. STOP LYING!

which goes around the local county board of supervisors, most of whom are to busy sucking off the teat of the big government Californication pig 🐖 to take a stand.

That's pretty hypocritical since y'all pounded your chests and proclaimed VICTORY back when the couple of county board of supervisors DID vote to declare in favor of y'all dystopia. You keep LYING about the extent of support y'all have in Northern CALIFORNIA. Why? 

That has happened in all those green counties on the map.

That is a LIE. STOP LYING! 

 
 
Raven Wing
6.1.62  Raven Wing  replied to  Dulay @6.1.61    one week ago
That is a LIE. STOP LYING!

For a supposed "Christian", lying is what he does best, and most of the time, when he is not spouting fairy tales.

 
 
epistte
6.1.63  epistte  replied to  Heartland American @6.1.54    one week ago
I love the constitution, the USA, and Jefferson.

California exists and Jefferson doesn't. Get used to it.

 
 
Heartland American
6.1.64  Heartland American  replied to  Dulay @6.1.52    4 days ago

I’m sure you would.  Lots of democrats in that group.  

 
 
Dulay
6.1.65  Dulay  replied to  Heartland American @6.1.64    4 days ago
Lots of democrats in that group.

The irony is that ALL of the media that your leadership puts out pretends that y'all are bipartisan. I'm pretty sure that many in your leadership would wince while reading how you characterize the positions of the 'Jeffersonians'. You aren't doing your cause any favors with your clumsy and uninformed 'advocacy'.  In fact, your posits prove that their claims of bipartisanship and diversity in their 'grass roots' supporters is BS. 

 
 
Kavika
7  Kavika     one week ago

5f8242a46.png

It's my understanding that FEMA will be moving into the mythical state of Jeffersonia and are looking for property to set up FEMA camps for the backward inhabitants..

I'm offering a couple of hundred acres in Modoc and Siskiyou counties to FEMA for said purpose.

 
 
DRHunk
7.1  DRHunk  replied to  Kavika @7    one week ago

just under 9k people voted in 57 precincts? That highlights the sad state of affairs our voting processes have gotten into. there has to be over 100,000k people in those precincts.

 
 
Dulay
7.2  Dulay  replied to  Kavika @7    one week ago
I'm offering a couple of hundred acres in Modoc and Siskiyou counties to FEMA for said purpose.

If I point out a spot I have in mind for a homestead, could you slip that in too? 

 
 
Kavika
7.2.1  Kavika   replied to  Dulay @7.2    one week ago

No problem dulay. If you don't mind living with a bunch of wild Indians I have just the spot for you...Laugh You can ride can't you? Horses that is.

 
 
Heartland American
7.3  Heartland American  replied to  Kavika @7    one week ago

That was a vote on renaming the county not the actual state of Jefferson itself.  

 
 
Dulay
7.3.1  Dulay  replied to  Heartland American @7.3    one week ago
That was a vote on renaming the county not the actual state of Jefferson itself.

Because y'all can't get enough signatures to put it on the ballot!Face Palm

 
 
pat wilson
7.3.2  pat wilson  replied to  Dulay @7.3.1    one week ago
the actual state of Jefferson itself

You can't have an "actual state" if no such state exists. Sorry to bother you with reality/s
 
 
Dulay
7.3.3  Dulay  replied to  pat wilson @7.3.2    one week ago
You can't have an "actual state" if no such state exists. Sorry to bother you with reality/s

I'm never bothered by reality but xx seems to be having a pretty hard time with it. 

 
 
pat wilson
7.3.4  pat wilson  replied to  Dulay @7.3.3    one week ago

I hope you know my "you" was metaphorical. smile.

 
 
Dulay
8  Dulay    one week ago
You can ride can't you? Horses that is.

Did a lot of riding as a kid. I have a lot more to giggle now. I have my eye on the Seiad Valley area of the Klamath River. Grow pot and vegies, fish all day. 

 
 
MrFrost
8.1  MrFrost  replied to  Dulay @8    one week ago
Seiad Valley area of the Klamath River.

Beautiful area... Been there a few times. 

 
 
Kavika
8.1.1  Kavika   replied to  MrFrost @8.1    one week ago

Oh man Dualy, that my old stomping ground....Used to fish the upper Klamath above COPCO along the old stage coach trail leading into Oregon. Also did a lot of fishing on Iron Gate. 

Also fished on the McCloud river and Lake Shastina. 

Got some nice steelhead on the Klamath. 

 
 
Dulay
8.1.2  Dulay  replied to  Kavika @8.1.1    one week ago
Got some nice steelhead on the Klamath.

That's for me. I've never been as far north as Klamath though. I looks awesome and I want to plant a forest garden, some pot and have chickens and maybe a pig or two. Oh and a donkey, I really want a donkey. 

 
 
Kavika
8.1.3  Kavika   replied to  Dulay @8.1.2    one week ago

Donkey's are great, a bit stubborn but really good to have around. 

Especially the miniature donkeys. 

 miniature-donkey2.png

 
 
Raven Wing
8.1.4  Raven Wing  replied to  Kavika @8.1.3    one week ago

"Especially the miniature donkeys. "

My neighbor had one of those when I lived in San Diego, and he was really adorable. He would stand at the fence when I came home from work and bray for carrots that I usually fed him when I got home each day. He and my Border Collie would have fun playing chase up and down the fence. When the people finally moved and took little their Donkey, Tippy, the dog, really missed him. So did I. (smile)

 
 
Tacos!
9  Tacos!    one week ago

At this point, I want to see California divide itself into three or four new states. Let's stop talking about it and do it. Whether you think it's going to solve problems or not, you can't say it wouldn't be interesting.

 
 
Dulay
9.1  Dulay  replied to  Tacos! @9    one week ago
Whether you think it's going to solve problems or not, you can't say it wouldn't be interesting.

Hell, you want interesting, let's start chopping up Texas. 

 
 
Peter Loves the Real Tea Party.
10  Peter Loves the Real Tea Party.    one week ago

When does the revolt start? Nothing will come of it and it will get basically no coverage, so knowing the time and date will be helpful for tuning in to check it out as a curiosity.

 
 
devangelical
10.1  devangelical  replied to  Peter Loves the Real Tea Party. @10    one week ago

Sunday afternoon. Right after church, brunch at IHOP, and thumpers getting changed out of their church clothes.

 
 
Peter Loves the Real Tea Party.
10.1.1  Peter Loves the Real Tea Party.  replied to  devangelical @10.1    one week ago

I blame it on the Big Country breakfast. That thing will make a person ornery as hell.

 
 
Heartland American
10.1.2  Heartland American  replied to  Peter Loves the Real Tea Party. @10.1.1    one week ago

What’s the matter?  All upset that we up here don’t love you all with all our hearts ♥️ minds, and soul?  

 
 
Peter Loves the Real Tea Party.
10.1.3  Peter Loves the Real Tea Party.  replied to  Heartland American @10.1.2    one week ago

Not that your question makes any sense, but I think we always want to try to witness a flash in the pan before it fades away.

Besides, I thought you were all for unity and peace. What happened?

 
 
devangelical
10.1.4  devangelical  replied to  Peter Loves the Real Tea Party. @10.1.3    one week ago

I think the peace and unity seeds go up after midnight before church. Then it's the standard left are atheists bible babble and the left are fascists boilerplate for the rest of the week.

 
 
Raven Wing
10.1.5  Raven Wing  replied to  Peter Loves the Real Tea Party. @10.1.3    one week ago
Besides, I thought you were all for unity and peace. What happened?

With the pretend Christians, it's go to Church on Sunday, ask for forgiveness, which they think they are given, then back to the normal demeaning and derogatory abuse of those who don't walk in lock step with their pretend Christian piety on Monday and through the week. Then come Sunday, ask for forgiveness, think they have it, then start all over again with the norm on Monday.

Sin, wash, rise, repeat. It is what gives true Christians a bad rap for hypocrisy.  

 
 
Peter Loves the Real Tea Party.
10.1.6  Peter Loves the Real Tea Party.  replied to  Raven Wing @10.1.5    one week ago

True.

 
 
Trout Giggles
10.1.7  Trout Giggles  replied to  Raven Wing @10.1.5    one week ago
it's go to Church on Sunday,

Don't forget Bible study on Wednesday nights

 
 
Raven Wing
10.1.8  Raven Wing  replied to  Trout Giggles @10.1.7    one week ago

Forgot about that, I've never been to one of those. $%^)@%(^

 
 
Gordy327
10.1.9  Gordy327  replied to  Trout Giggles @10.1.7    one week ago

Wednesday nights is Halo night. winking

 
 
Heartland American
10.1.10  Heartland American  replied to  Gordy327 @10.1.9    one week ago

As if it’s a sin to advocate for a political position of separation for a region from a state.  Hint: it’s not. 

 
 
Gordy327
10.1.11  Gordy327  replied to  Heartland American @10.1.10    one week ago

"Sin" is a silly concept, especially in the context of this discussion. Neither did I say anything at all about advocating for a political position  (no matter how absurd) as being wrong. So I have no idea where you came up with that idea.

 
 
Heartland American
10.1.12  Heartland American  replied to  Gordy327 @10.1.11    one week ago

Ask Raven, she brought it up in this context.  She thinks it’s unchristian to disagree with her on any given issue. 

 
 
Raven Wing
10.1.13  Raven Wing  replied to  Heartland American @10.1.12    one week ago
She thinks it’s unchristian to disagree with her on any given issue.

Stop lying. That's BS and you well now it. Even if you don't, the majority of intelligent people here on NT know it. It's only those who make false accusations, or spout nothing but lies, that I take issue with, and you do that endlessly.

 
 
Gordy327
10.1.14  Gordy327  replied to  Heartland American @10.1.12    one week ago
Ask Raven, she brought it up in this context.

Then why did you address me? Especially since my initial reply was not a reply to either you or Raven, much less have anything to do with what you brought up?

 
 
Raven Wing
10.1.15  Raven Wing  replied to  Gordy327 @10.1.14    6 days ago
Then why did you address me?

Does he really need a reason?  He just feels the need to spread his BS wherever he points his mouse

 
 
Gordy327
10.1.16  Gordy327  replied to  Raven Wing @10.1.15    6 days ago
Does he really need a reason? He just feels the need to spread his BS wherever he points his mouse

I tend to agree.

 
 
Gordy327
11  Gordy327    one week ago

The whole "State of Jefferson" nonsense is just a delusional pipe dream. Similar proposals to partition California have been made before. Nothing has ever come from them, and likely never will. Partition of a state requires approval of both that state legislature and Congress. The last state to partition itself was West Virginia over 150 years ago.

 
 
Dismayed Patriot
11.1  Dismayed Patriot  replied to  Gordy327 @11    one week ago

If a split were ever to succeed it would have to be a split through the near center with anything from San Louis Obispo to Bakersfield and south being in the State of Cal Angeles, and everything north of that line being the State of Cal Frisco. Both would continue to be democrat strongholds and we'd get an additional two Democrat US senators.

 
 
Heartland American
11.1.1  Heartland American  replied to  Dismayed Patriot @11.1    one week ago

That’s close to what the three state version this November does except it gives 4 extra Democrat senators

 
 
Heartland American
12  Heartland American    one week ago

I see that the secular progressives haters of the far north regions of Californication we call Jefferson are out in force here.  

 
 
Gordy327
12.1  Gordy327  replied to  Heartland American @12    one week ago
I see that the secular progressives haters of the far north regions of Californication we call Jefferson are out in force here.

The only one doing the hating here is you, and you've pretty much admitted it too.

 
 
epistte
12.1.1  epistte  replied to  Gordy327 @12.1    one week ago

I thought that I was the assigned secular progressive hater on the 11p to 7am shift at Newstalkers?  Did I get moved to day shift for the weekend?

 
 
Kavika
12.1.2  Kavika   replied to  epistte @12.1.1    one week ago

Could be that you're going to have to start pulling double shifts, epistte.

 
 
Gordy327
12.1.3  Gordy327  replied to  epistte @12.1.1    one week ago
I thought that I was the assigned secular progressive hater on the 11p to 7am shift at Newstalkers?

The job is still yours. I'm just on call. lol

 
 
epistte
12.1.4  epistte  replied to  Kavika @12.1.2    6 days ago
Could be that you're going to have to start pulling double shifts, epistte.

I work night shifts here while I am also developing the new secular progressive gave show, Name That Fallacy!  Last night I had to postpone my date with 3 hunky Australian guys just to be here.

I am going to write the nastiest op-ed letter to the ghosts of Karl Marx and FDR to whoever screwed up the schedule.  

 
 
Kavika
12.1.5  Kavika   replied to  epistte @12.1.4    6 days ago

Too funny.laughing dude

 
 
epistte
12.1.6  epistte  replied to  Kavika @12.1.5    6 days ago
Too funny.

I'm glad that someone enjoys my twisted sense of humor. Most people just tilt their head and look at me weird, like a puppy when you ask them if they need to go outside? 

 
 
Dulay
12.2  Dulay  replied to  Heartland American @12    one week ago
I see that the secular progressives haters of the far north regions of Californication we call Jefferson are out in force here.

I see that the XX regressive hater of the rest of the country is incapable telling the truth about the strength of the proponents of his dystopia and continues to resort to using lies in a failed attempt to pretend that his 'movement' is legitimate. 

Your days of dumping this crap on the FP ad nauseam are over. Every time you post this 'Jefferson' crap, I will REPEAT my evisceration of your seed, using the same FACTS that you haven't been capable of refuting in the above threads. 

 
 
Heartland American
12.2.1  Heartland American  replied to  Dulay @12.2    6 days ago

Whenever there is a new article about our great effort to secede from the vile, evil, hideous monstrosity that is Californication, it is likely I’ll find it and seed it.  Even the usually wicked New York Times has given our efforts reasonably fair coverage.  

 
 
Kavika
12.2.2  Kavika   replied to  Heartland American @12.2.1    6 days ago

LMAO, and you and the other so called Jeffersonia's will forever be subjects of the urban/coastal/elites.

Keep tilting at windmills, it's fun to watch..

 
 
Dulay
12.2.3  Dulay  replied to  Heartland American @12.2.1    6 days ago

I'll be there. I made a copy of your lies and the unanswered questions here. I'll link them in your next iteration since your posting history infers that your future seeds and your future comments on this subject will repeat the same lies and ignore the same questions.

I have no illusion that my efforts will deter your fallacious posts about your delusional dystopia. That would require a modicum of shame from one who has proven to be shameless. 

 
 
Heartland American
12.2.4  Heartland American  replied to  Dulay @12.2.3    6 days ago

It won’t in any way.  See below.  

 
 
Heartland American
12.2.5  Heartland American  replied to  Kavika @12.2.2    6 days ago

Jefferson is not our only rebellion.  We are in open rebellion on gun issues, the gas tax, and siding with the federal government against the urban progressives here on the sanctuary issue.  We intend to open up many fronts in our open rebellion against the state.  We openly side with any other state on any issue between said other state and California from Arizona on immigration to Texas on education and economic matters.  As long as we are a part of California we will be an open sore upon the face of it.  

 
 
Dulay
12.2.6  Dulay  replied to  Heartland American @12.2.4    6 days ago
It won’t in any way. See below.

Wow! Thanks for clearing things up by posting a wiki article. /s

 

 
 
pat wilson
12.2.7  pat wilson  replied to  Heartland American @12.2.5    6 days ago
As long as we are a part of California we will be an open sore upon the face of it.

That says it all !

 
 
Dulay
12.2.8  Dulay  replied to  Heartland American @12.2.5    6 days ago
As long as we are a part of California we will be an open sore upon the face of it.

I recommend cauterization. The scare would be better then the malady. 

 
 
Heartland American
12.2.9  Heartland American  replied to  pat wilson @12.2.7    6 days ago

Don’t like it, grant us statehood.  Quit being an occupying force.  Why should we respect our oppressors?  

 
 
Heartland American
12.2.10  Heartland American  replied to  Dulay @12.2.8    6 days ago

How would that work in the context of the Jefferson statehood issue.  Would you recommend the same for Ethnic groups who want independence as a nation from a majority group that controls a given country.  Should Turkey cauterize their Kurdish areas?  

 
 
Dulay
12.2.11  Dulay  replied to  Heartland American @12.2.9    6 days ago
Don’t like it, grant us statehood.

You've yet to state a cogent reason. I'll wait...

Quit being an occupying force.

You aren't being occupied. Stop your hyperbolic victimhood. 

Why should we respect our oppressors?

From your own posts you've made it know that you have a career, live in a nice house, in a nice neighborhood close to family. HOW can you consider that being 'oppressed'? 

 
 
Dulay
12.2.12  Dulay  replied to  Heartland American @12.2.10    6 days ago
How would that work in the context of the Jefferson statehood issue.

Is that a question? 

How it works is in the context of your stated desire to 'be an open sore upon the face' of California. The quickest way to deal with an open sore is to cauterize it. I'd think you 'gun totters' would know how to deal with open wounds. 

Would you recommend the same for Ethnic groups who want independence as a nation from a majority group that controls a given country. Should Turkey cauterize their Kurdish areas?

Oh so now you want to pretend that your cause is equivalent to the Kurds in Turkey? 

First of all, the Kurds put you arm chair cowboys to shame. 

Secondly, your ethnicity is the MAJORITY. 

FAIL. 

 
 
Dulay
12.2.13  Dulay  replied to  Heartland American @12.2.10    6 days ago

Oh and BTFW, note that unlike you, I answered your questions. 

 
 
Raven Wing
12.2.14  Raven Wing  replied to  Heartland American @12.2.9    6 days ago
Why should we respect our oppressors?

Why should we respect such lunatics?

 
 
Heartland American
12.2.15  Heartland American  replied to  Raven Wing @12.2.14    6 days ago

We don’t respect Californications’ lunatic urban secular progressives....

 
 
epistte
12.2.16  epistte  replied to  Heartland American @12.2.15    6 days ago
We don’t respect Californications’ lunatic urban secular progressives....

If you aren't willing to meet them halfway with respect then why should they respect you and care about your opinions?

Not all progressives are atheists.  Most Progressives are a moderate or liberal sect of the Christian religion.

 
 
Heartland American
12.2.17  Heartland American  replied to  epistte @12.2.16    6 days ago

Meet them half way on creating the state of Jefferson?  I’ll listen to what they have to say regarding a compromise that would lead to our statehood.  

 
 
epistte
12.2.18  epistte  replied to  Heartland American @12.2.17    6 days ago
I’ll listen to what they have to say regarding a compromise that would lead to our statehood.

You must first show respect to others if you expect them to respect you. 

This thread has been a disaster for your Jefferson statehood argument. You would be smart to let it die rather than attempting to keep this losing discussion alive.

 
 
Heartland American
12.2.19  Heartland American  replied to  epistte @12.2.18    6 days ago

This thread is actually about a number of rebellions against the state of California of which Jefferson is but one.  We will never give up our quest for statehood.  Even if we would be less well off financially which we wouldn’t be and even if our problems here were as exaggerated as the haters from the cities claim and they are not, we’d be better off on our own just because we would sever our political ties with the likes of millions of people just like several on this site.  Most of our problems in Jefferson are California caused and California is our disease and will never be a cure for us.  Only separation and statehood will fix and repair our area.  We will not move or stop our effort no matter how much you all coastal city types don’t like it.   Just because our counter parts in Colorado, Maryland, and other states seem to have given up their efforts toward separation from those states doesn’t mean we are going to.  Californication is infinitely more evil than those places and hell will freeze over before Jefferson statehood proponents give up our attempt to divide the state of California and assure it will never as is be a united state.  

 
 
Gordy327
12.2.20  Gordy327  replied to  Heartland American @12.2.19    6 days ago
Only separation and statehood will fix and repair our area.

Or you can just move to another state. Then both you and CA will be better off. Seems like a win-win.

 
 
Heartland American
12.2.21  Heartland American  replied to  Gordy327 @12.2.20    5 days ago

No.  I’m happy where I am and like living in Jefferson.  We’d be better off without the Californication regime. I have absolutely no interest in any thing to make Californication better off except they would be financially better off if we weren’t a part of their state.  They certainly aren’t occupying us for the money.  

 
 
epistte
12.2.22  epistte  replied to  Heartland American @12.2.21    5 days ago
We’d be better off without the Californication regime. I have absolutely no interest in any thing to make Californication better off except they would be financially better off if we weren’t a part of their state.

Your hyperbolic arguments aren't helping you.

How could you possibly be better off in Jefferson when you are leeching off of them fiscally? They cannot be occupiers when you are living on their dime and are protected by the very same constitutional rights that they have.  You have a higher standard of living as a resident of progressive California than you would have in Jefferson.

 
 
Heartland American
12.2.23  Heartland American  replied to  epistte @12.2.22    5 days ago

Because we would have far more rights under a Jefferson constitution than anyone has in California presently has.  As to revenues we will have enough to adequately fund our state under our tax and regulatory codes.  We’d be a right to work state and join Nevada and Washington as zero state income tax states.  Our potential future as our own state should be of no concern to California.  

 
 
epistte
12.2.24  epistte  replied to  Heartland American @12.2.23    5 days ago
Because we would have far more rights under a Jefferson constitution than anyone has in California presently has.

Taxes are not a violation of your rights.  If wealth was a right then being poor would be unconstitutional.  I doubt that you want to go there now.

Right to work states have lower incomes, so you would not help yourself by doing so. Who would you want to work for less money in an RTW state? Even when you factor in the union dues you are still better off financially in a union or a state that isn't right to work. There is no worker benefit to supporting Right To Work laws. 

At their core, RTW laws seek to hamstring unions’ ability to help employees bargain with their employers for better wages, benefits, and working conditions. Given that unionization raises wages both for individual union members as well as for nonunion workers in unionized sectors, it is not surprising that research shows that both union and nonunion workers in RTW states have lower wages and fewer benefits, on average, than comparable workers in other states.

Indeed, in a 2011 EPI paper, Elise Gould and Heidi Shierholz estimate that wages in RTW states are 3.2 percent lower on average than wages in non-RTW states, even after controlling for a full set of worker characteristics and state labor market conditions. Gould and Shierholz (2011) also find that workers in RTW states are less likely to have employer-sponsored health insurance and pension coverage.

You could not possibly have more constitutional rights in Jefferson because we already have the maximum amount of rights. If you have more rights then something has to be taken away from another, but that is unconstitutional because they would then have fewer rights.  Logically rights have to be equal among all or they are a privilege.

If you are so enamored with RTW laws why don't you go into the human resources office tomorrow morning and tell them you support RTW laws. They will cut your salary by 10%, end your healthcare coverage and the 401K matching and take away 1/2 of your paid vacation and sick leave.  This way you have your RTW laws and those who don't want to cut off their nose get to keep their salary, higher benefits and job protections. Its a win-win for everyone. 

 
 
Gordy327
12.2.25  Gordy327  replied to  Heartland American @12.2.21    5 days ago
No. I’m happy where I am and like living in Jefferson.

Apparently not, as you keep whining about it.

We’d be better off without the Californication regime.

Like I said, you are free to leave.

I have absolutely no interest in any thing to make Californication better off except they would be financially better off if we weren’t a part of their state.

It's rather funny how you complain about CA making you miserable, when you're trying to do the exact same thing. Oh the hypocrisy.

They certainly aren’t occupying us for the money.

How can they "occupy" you when you're already in CA? You're the one occupying CA.

 
 
epistte
12.2.26  epistte  replied to  Gordy327 @12.2.25    5 days ago
How can they "occupy" you when you're already in CA? You're the one occupying CA.

If California was occupying anything the roads would be closed and he would be living under martial law. 

Heartland' is free to move to a right-to-work state and use the taxpayer-supported roads and airports to do so.

 
 
Skrekk
12.2.27  Skrekk  replied to  Heartland American @12.2.23    5 days ago
Because we would have far more rights under a Jefferson constitution than anyone has in California presently has.

You've already indicated that you want certain classes of Americans to be denied full civil rights so it's rather doubtful that any form of government you support would have better civil rights than those protected by California.

In fact just the other day you were whining about how a dimwitted Trump supporter was treated at a restaurant......yet only in liberal places like DC, Seattle, Madison WI and California is "political affiliation" a protected class for public accommodations.    So it seems that you want exactly what you resent and ridicule.

 
 
Heartland American
12.2.28  Heartland American  replied to  epistte @12.2.24    5 days ago

I never said lower taxes were a constitutional right. I said it would be a benefit of living in Jefferson that I would expect of statehood.  I see Californication citizens as having the fewest constitutional protections for individuals and businesses of any state in the union.  If we have fewer regulations, right to work, and lower taxes upon statehood, that would be for us to deal with.  It would be of no more concern to you than what Nevada or Arizona or Oregon does.  We would likely freeze the minimum wage upon statehood and not go up a dollar a year once statehood achieved.  On the other hand with our lower cost of living $11-12 here would buy way more than $15 would in the Bay Area or LA.  

 
 
epistte
12.2.29  epistte  replied to  Heartland American @12.2.28    5 days ago

I never said lower taxes were a constitutional right. I said it would be a benefit of living in Jefferson that I would expect of statehood.

How can you suggest that you would lower taxes after statehood when California already subsidizes your low tax level now. The fiscally responsible action after statehood would be to raise taxes so that others do not have to pay your bills. 

 I see Californication citizens as having the fewest constitutional protections for individuals and businesses of any state in the union.

What constitutional protections do the citizens of California currently lack? Business are not people and as such have no constitutional rights.

 
 
Dulay
12.2.30  Dulay  replied to  Heartland American @12.2.28    5 days ago
On the other hand with our lower cost of living $11-12 here would buy way more than $15 would in the Bay Area or LA.

The state with the lowest 'minimum living wage' is Kentucky @ $21.50 an hour. Their actual minimum wage is $7.25 an hour. 

 
 
Heartland American
12.2.31  Heartland American  replied to  epistte @12.2.29    4 days ago

We have no low tax level now. We pay the same rates as other citizens of this piece of crap 💩 good for nothing state of Californication.  As to our economic issues we have, we have them because we are a part of Californication and it is the sole cause of every economic and fiscal issue we have. Californication is our malady/ disease, separation into our own self ruling state of the USA 🇺🇸 the cure for all of our problems, all caused by California because we are presently a part of it.  

 
 
epistte
12.2.32  epistte  replied to  Heartland American @12.2.31    4 days ago

We have no low tax level now. We pay the same rates as other citizens of this piece of crap 💩 good for nothing state of Californication.

Your area of the state receives more tax revenue from Sacramento than you pay in.

 As to our economic issues we have, we have them because we are a part of Californication and it is the sole cause of every economic and fiscal issue we have. Californication is our malady/ disease, separation into our own self ruling state of the USA 🇺🇸 the cure for all of our problems, all caused by California because we are presently a part of it.  

Repeating this same lie doesn't make it true. Your fiscal situation would be worse off if you ever manage to convince Congress to create another state. That situation would have to be remedied by the federal government so you would be another conservative welfare state that needs to be bailed out by the taxpayers of the wealthier states.   Your idea to cut taxes would only make the situation worse.

 
 
Heartland American
12.2.33  Heartland American  replied to  epistte @12.2.32    4 days ago

The fact is we pay the same tax rates here as everyone else does.  We’ve been a part of this stupid state since our area was settled and no state other than California is responsible for all the problems we have up here.  We do as a result of state economic and regulatory policy receive more from the state than we pay into it and fully intend to increase our being a financial burden upon the rest of you as long as we are compelled to be a part of the state.  The only reason elected establishment  officials here resist Jefferson is because they are dependent upon that revenue from the rest of you and intend to maintain that in perpetuity.  The minority democrats here have something called keep it california and they like using their ideological friends in the cities to compel the majority here to do their bidding here.  Mendocino, Lake, and Nevada counties have more democrats but even as democrats they identify as rural more than partisan.  Humboldt, dDel Norte, Alpine will stay Ca. For their own reasons.  The fact is that most opposition to Jefferson here is due to expectations that the subsidies from the rest of you will continue forever.  

 
 
Dulay
12.2.34  Dulay  replied to  Heartland American @12.2.33    3 days ago
The fact is we pay the same tax rates here as everyone else does.

Actually, many of your property owners DON'T pay the same tax rates. YOU brought up the land conservation program though you don't seem to understand what it DOES. Those land owners get YUGE state and federal tax breaks. 

Secondly, your county, as with every CA county, sets it's own property taxes. Shasta County is at 60% of the value of the property, San Francisco County is @ 55%. 

We’ve been a part of this stupid state since our area was settled and no state other than California is responsible for all the problems we have up here.

That whole 'personal responsibility and accountability' thingy just went down the toilet, didn't it. 

We do as a result of state economic and regulatory policy receive more from the state than we pay into it

Bullshit. 

and fully intend to increase our being a financial burden upon the rest of you as long as we are compelled to be a part of the state.

Becoming a state will NOT make you LESS of a financial burden to CA. CA will merely be supporting your inability to be self sufficient through Federal funds. Your whole posit is just a shell game. 

The only reason elected establishment officials here resist Jefferson is because they are dependent upon that revenue from the rest of you and intend to maintain that in perpetuity.

ALL counties in EVERY state are dependent upon STATE revenue for building and maintaining STATE projects, bridges and roads come to mind. The minutes of County meetings show that responsible elected officials reviewed the tax base in their counties and came to the conclusion that they COULD NOT support EXISTING infrastructure, much less fund future projects. 

The minority democrats here have something called keep it california and they like using their ideological friends in the cities to compel the majority here to do their bidding here.

AGAIN, that is bullshit. You DO NOT have the 'majority' support you claim and the FACT that y'all can't get measures on the ballot in Shasta County, the 'heart' of your dystopia, proves that. 

Mendocino, Lake, and Nevada counties have more democrats but even as democrats they identify as rural more than partisan.

Point? None of those counties are part of your Jeffertopia.

Humboldt, dDel Norte, Alpine will stay Ca. For their own reasons.

Care to elaborate on those reasons? 

The fact is that most opposition to Jefferson here is due to expectations that the subsidies from the rest of you will continue forever.

Actually, proponents of your Jeffertopia have the same expectation, it's merely shifted to Federal subsidies. You've admitted over and over that you want to be just like the other 'taker' states...

 
 
Heartland American
13  Heartland American    6 days ago

Jefferson (proposed Pacific state)
This article is about a proposed U.S. state on the Pacific coast. For other proposed states with the same name, see Jefferson Territory and Jefferson (proposed Southern state).
See also: Partition and secession in California
The State of Jefferson is a proposed U.S. state that would span the contiguous, mostly rural area of southern Oregon and northern California, where several attempts to separate from Oregon and California, respectively, have taken place.

State of Jefferson
(proposed)
Flag of Jefferson State seal of Jefferson
Flag of Jefferson Seal of Jefferson
Nickname(s): State of Mind, SJ (State of Jefferson)
Map of the United States with Jefferson highlighted
Official language
English
Demonym
Jeffersonian
Capital
Yreka (1941 initiative)
Largest city
Roseville
Largest metro
Medford
Area
Ranked 18th (hypothetical)
• Total
73,656 sq mi
(190,768 km2)
• Width
250 miles (402 km)
• Length
295 miles (475 km)
• % water
Unknown
• Latitude
38°45'N to 43°57'N
• Longitude
119°18'W to 124°25'W
Population
Ranked 36th (hypothetical)
• Total
2,345,402 (2016 Est)
• Density
32.42/sq mi (19.52/km2)
Ranked 42nd (hypothetical)
Elevation
• Highest point
Mount Shasta
14,179 ft (4316.58 m)
• Mean
7,081 ft (2158.29 m)
• Lowest point
Sea level
Admission to Union
(Proposed 51st state)
Legislature
House and Senate
U.S. House delegation
To be defined (list)
Time zone
Pacific: UTC-8/-7
ISO 3166
US-JF
Abbreviations
JF
This region on the Pacific Coast is the most famous of several that have sought to adopt the name of Thomas Jefferson, the third President of the United States. Jefferson, who sent the Lewis and Clark expedition into the Pacific Northwest in 1803, envisioned the establishment of an independent nation in the western portion of North America that he dubbed the "Republic of the Pacific";[1] hence, the association of his name with regional autonomy. The independence movement, rather than statehood, is known as Cascadia.

The name "Jefferson" has also been used for other proposed states: the name was proposed in the 19th century for Jefferson Territory (roughly modern Colorado), as well as in 1915 in a bill in the Texas Legislature for a proposed state that would be created from the Texas Panhandle region.[2][3]

If the proposal were ever approved, the new state's capital city would have to be determined by a constitutional convention. Yreka, California, was named the provisional capital in the original 1941 proposal,[4] although Port Orford, Oregon, had also been up for consideration.[4] Some supporters of the more recent revival have also identified Redding, California, as a potential capital,[4] even though Redding is not included in all versions of the proposal and its City Council voted in 2013 to reject participation in the movement.[5]

20th century

21st century Edit

Jefferson is commemorated by the State of Jefferson Scenic Byway between Yreka and O'Brien, Oregon, which runs 109 miles (175 km) along State Route 96 and U.S. Forest Service Primary Route 48. Near the California – Oregon border, a turnout provides scenic views of the Klamath River valley and three informative display signs about the republic.[citation needed] The region retains this identity reinforced by institutions such as Jefferson Public Radio.

As of the 2010 Census, if the Jefferson counties were a state (original 1941 counties), the state's population would be 457,859: smaller than any state at the time. Approximately 82% of those residents live in Oregon. Its land area would be 21,349.76 square miles (55,295.6 km2) – a little smaller than West Virginia. The area was almost evenly divided between Oregon and California. Its population density would be 21.44 inhabitants per square mile (8.28/km2) – a little more than Idaho.[16] With the addition of the more modern Jefferson movement (Coos and Douglas and Lake Counties in Oregon, and Humboldt, Trinity, Shasta, Lassen, Mendocino, Lake, Tehama, Plumas, Glenn, Butte, Colusa, Sierra, Sutter County, Yuba, Nevada, Placer and El Dorado Counties in California), the population as of the 2010 Census would be 2,313,958, making it the 36th most populous state in the United States.

In 1989, KSOR, the National Public Radio member station based at Southern Oregon University in Ashland, near Medford, rebranded itself as Jefferson Public Radio. It had built a massive network of low-powered translators earlier in the 1980s. By the time KSOR began building full-power stations later in the decade, it realized that the combined footprint of its translator network was roughly coextensive with the original State of Jefferson. It thus felt "Jefferson Public Radio" was an appropriate name when it decided to rebrand itself as a network.[17]

In the late 1990s, the movement for statehood was promoted by a group called the State of Jefferson Citizens Committee, which was originally formed in 1941. Two of the members, Brian Helsaple and Brian Petersen gathered an extensive collection, including both verbal and written accounts mostly surrounding the 1941 movement. They published a book, Jefferson Saga in 2000. This along with the continued lack of representation and over regulations, fanned the flame.

Counties intending to leave California Edit
On September 3, 2013, the Siskiyou County, California Board of Supervisors voted 4 to 1 in favor of withdrawal from California to form a proposed state named Jefferson.[18][19][20] The proposal was joined by the Modoc County Board of Supervisors (September 24)[21] and Glenn County Board of Supervisors (January 21, 2014).[22][23] On April 15, 2014 Yuba County Supervisors joined the State of Jefferson movement to separate from California and create a new U.S. state.[24] On July 15, 2014 the Tehama County Board of Supervisors voted unanimously to adopt a resolution supporting the declaration of withdrawal from California[25] based on an advisory vote taken on June 6, 2014 where the public voted 56% to 44% in favor of splitting the state.[26] On July 22, 2014 the Board of Supervisors of Sutter County unanimously adopted a resolution supporting a declaration and petition to the Legislature to withdraw from California to redress a lack of representation.[27] On March 3, 2015, Lake County supervisors voted 3 to 2[28][29] to submit the question of secession to voters and on March 17, Lassen County supervisors made a similar declaration[30] that also has the voters deciding in 2016.[31] The Jefferson Declaration Committee is reportedly aiming to get at least 12 counties in support.[18]

On October 24, 2014, Modoc and Siskiyou Counties delivered their declarations[32] for independence from the state of California to the California Secretary of State's office. On January 15, 2015, three more counties, Glenn, Tehama, and Yuba, submitted their official declarations as well.[33]

The 2013 revival was based almost entirely in California.[34] It includes all major parts of California north of 39°. Although some individual residents in Oregon have lobbied for the movement, no county government in that state has endorsed the proposal to date.[35] As of January 6, 2016, 21 northern California counties have sent a declaration or have approved to send a declaration to the State of California with their intent of leaving the state and forming the State of Jefferson.[36] The population of the 21 California counties was 1,747,626 as of the 2010 U.S. Census, which would be 39th most populous state in the Union.

2016 presidential election Edit    

After the 2016 presidential election, it was noted that most of the rural California counties which would belong to the State of Jefferson were won in a landslide by Republican nominee Donald Trump, whereas Democrat Hillary Clinton enjoyed an unprecedented level of support in the rest of California, indicating a growing demographic and political divide between the proposed State of Jefferson and the rest of California. While Clinton beat Trump by almost 80 points in San Francisco, he led her by more than 50 points in Lassen County.[37][38][39] The election of Trump led to calls for a secession of California and a similar proposal in Oregon, where Clinton won the popular vote while Trump captured the majority of counties.[40][41][42]

With the election of President Donald Trump, some who are considering joining the modern State of Jefferson or are observing the movement have stated that if California secedes, the movement's supporting counties could appeal directly to the United States Congress for statehood, similar to how West Virginia was formed, claiming California would be in insurrection and petitioning to rejoin the Union as an independent state.[43]

On May 8, 2017 the State Of Jefferson as "Citizens for Fair Representation" filed a lawsuit[44] against the California Secretary of State Alex Padilla. The suit alleges that California's 1862 law limiting Senators to no more than 40, and Assembly Members to no more than 80, creates an unconstitutional imbalance of representation that precludes effective "self-governance" as protected by the 14th Amendment. The desired result of suing California, for lack of representation and dilution of vote, is better representation across all of California, and ultimately an independent State of Jefferson.[45]

Flag and seal Edit

Jefferson state flag
The field of the flag is green, and the charge is the Seal of the State of Jefferson: a gold mining pan with the words "The Great Seal Of State Of Jefferson" engraved into the lip, and two Xs askew of each other.[46]

The two Xs are known as the "Double Cross" and signify the two regions' "sense of abandonment" from the central state governments, in both Southern Oregon and Northern California.[36]

The gold pan is on display at the Yreka California Siskiyou Museum.

See also

References

Further reading

External links      https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jefferson_(proposed_Pacific_state)

 
 
Dulay
13.1  Dulay  replied to  Heartland American @13    6 days ago

Wow! Thanks for clearing things up by posting a wiki article. /s

I note that nowhere does the article support the LIES in your comments. 

FAIL

 
 
Raven Wing
13.2  Raven Wing  replied to  Heartland American @13    6 days ago

LOL laughing dudeMakes No Sense

 
 
Heartland American
13.2.1  Heartland American  replied to  Raven Wing @13.2    6 days ago

Same to you and more of it!  

 
 
Raven Wing
13.2.2  Raven Wing  replied to  Heartland American @13.2.1    6 days ago

BlahBlahBlah

 
 

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