Fears of more deaths in Gaza as Israel's actions condemned

Via:  jbb  •  5 months ago  •  151 comments

Fears of more deaths in Gaza as Israel's actions condemned

Fears of more deaths in Gaza as Israel's actions condemned 


By Ian Lee, Tamara Qiblawi, Abeer Salman and Richard Roth, CNN

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/fears-of-more-deaths-in-gaza-as-israels-actions-condemned/ar-AAxilY0?li=BBnb7Kz

Another day of protests is expected at the Gaza border Tuesday as international condemnation poured in over Israel's use of force against unarmed Palestinian protesters this week.

At least 58 Palestinians were killed by Israeli troops in protests over the Trump administration's controversial opening of the US embassy in Jerusalem, according to the Palestinian Health Ministry, the deadliest day in Gaza since the 2014 Israeli invasion.

Doctors Without Borders called on the Israeli army to stop using deadly force against demonstrators, saying their actions were "unacceptable and inhuman."

"This bloodbath is the continuation of the Israeli army's policy during the last seven weeks: shooting with live ammunition at demonstrators, on the assumption that anyone approaching the separation fence is a legitimate target," Marie-Elisabeth Ingres, the group's representative in Gaza, said in a statement.

French President Emmanuel Macron also condemned "the violence of the Israeli forces against protesters," in a statement, while Australian Foreign Minister Julie Bishop called on Israel to be "proportionate in its response and refrain from excessive use of force."

In a phone call with Palestinian leader Mahmoud Abbas, Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan "condemned the attacks and wished Allah's mercy to all martyrs," according to the official Anadolu news agency. Turkey is recalling its ambassadors to Washington and Tel Aviv for consultations, according to state-run Anadolu Agency.

United Nations Secretary-General António Guterres was "profoundly alarmed" by the violence in Gaza and urged Israeli forces to "exercise maximum restraint in the use of live fire," his deputy spokesman Farhan Haq said.

A proposed UN Security Council press statement, put forward by Kuwait, was blocked by the US, according to a UN diplomat.

The draft statement, which was provided to CNN by a UN diplomat, included language expressing "outrage and sorrow at the killing of Palestinian civilians exercising their right to peaceful protest."

It also reaffirmed UN resolutions on the status of Jerusalem, saying that recent events had "no legal effect" under international law. The statement was not passed by the Security Council, after being withdrawn once the US blocked it, according to a UN diplomat.

Around 35,000 protesters gathered at the border of Gaza and Israeli territory Monday to object to the embassy move, continuing the "Great March of Return" demonstrations which have been ongoing since March in the run up to the 70th anniversary of the founding of the state of Israel and expulsion of thousands of Palestinians.

Israeli troops used tear gas and live ammunition to try and disperse the crowd, killing at least 58 and injuring as many as 2,700, according to the Palestinian Health Ministry.

Most of the dead were killed by Israeli fire near the border. CNN journalists heard gunshots in spurts and saw a tank moving toward the fence in the border area of Malaka. Israeli drones also dropped tear gas in an effort to disperse protesters.

In a statement, the Israel Defense Forces (IDF) accused the Palestinian militant group Hamas, which controls Gaza, of "leading a terrorist operation" and inciting the protesters, who had assembled in numerous locations along the border fence, to conduct what Israel described as terror attacks.

The military alleged some protesters threw rocks and Molotov cocktails, and burned tires. The IDF also claimed to have foiled an attack by three armed Palestinians near Rafah, close to the border with Egypt, during "a particularly violent demonstration."

Many of the injured Palestinians were young men who were hit by live ammunition, according to British-Palestinian Dr. Ghassan Abu Sitteh, who spoke to CNN from a hospital run by a British charity in Jabaliya camp in northern Gaza.

Monday's death toll was the biggest number of fatalities suffered in one day since the latest round of demonstrations began more than six weeks ago. The previous high was 17, which happened on the day the protests started on March 30.

Palestinian Authority President Abbas convened an emergency government meeting on Monday afternoon and announced a general strike and three days of mourning, both to start Tuesday.

"Today is one of the most ferocious days our people have seen," Abbas said, before turning his thoughts to the newly-anointed US Embassy. "Before we were suffering from illegal Israeli settlements. Now it's another illegal settlement by the Israel and the United States."

The embassy move is contentious for Palestinians, who hope to claim part of Jerusalem as their future capital, and for many in the Arab world, as it is home to some of the holiest sites in Islam. The city is also home to deeply holy sites for Jews and Christians.

Several top Trump administration officials were on hand to witness the official unveiling of the US Embassy in Jerusalem on Monday, marking the formal upending of decades of American foreign policy.

President Donald Trump did not attend the ceremony, but in a video message broadcast at the event he congratulated Israel, saying the opening had been "a long time coming."

"Israel is a sovereign nation with the right like every other sovereign nation to determine its own capital, yet for many years, we failed to acknowledge the obvious, the plain reality that Israel's capital is Jerusalem," Trump said in the pre-recorded remarks.

While Monday's protests in Gaza were organized to coincide with the embassy opening, the demonstrations are about far more than the change in status of the US consulate building in Jerusalem.

On every Friday since the end of March, tens of thousands have marched to the border to take part in "Great March of Return" protests, which seek to highlight Palestinians' right to return to homes lost by their ancestors during the war that accompanied the founding of the state of Israel in 1948.

The protests culminate on Tuesday with the anniversary of what Palestinians call Nakba Day, or "Day of Catastrophe," which marks when the more than 700,000 Palestinians who were either expelled from or fled their homes during the wars that surrounded Israel's foundation. Thousands are expected to attend Tuesday's demonstration.

Ian Lee reported from Gaza, and Abeer Salman reported from Jerusalem. Tamari Qiblawi wrote from Beirut. Richard Roth contributed to this report from the UN in New York. CNN's Natalie Gallon, James Griffiths, and Samantha Beech contributed reporting.

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JBB
1  seeder  JBB    5 months ago

This is a news story and not an opinion piece. Please limit comments to the topic of the news article...

 
 
Greg Jones
1.1  Greg Jones  replied to  JBB @1    5 months ago

It's none of our business how Israel responds to violence. These protests have been pre-planned by Hamas to expose some of their most vulnerable citizens to death, in the hope of world condemnation. If rockets don't work, then use people who probably are armed to make the most of the visible protest. If the Gazanians aka "Palestinians" aka Hamas want peace, a homeland, and a capital, they know how and where to start.

 
 
JBB
1.1.1  seeder  JBB  replied to  Greg Jones @1.1    5 months ago

The current strife though long simmering was inflamed by the US breaking international protocols and moving its embassy from Tel Aviv to Jerusalem. Despite preemptive headlines declaring, "Massacre of Israelis", the death count update on the numbers killed are Palestinian protesters killed by Israeli Defense Forces Sixty and Israelis killed by the Gaza protesters Zero. Conservative commentator and former McCain campaign chairman Steve Schmidt says, "Trump has blood on his hands", for unnecessarily inflaming an already tense situation...

 
 
Texan1211
1.1.2  Texan1211  replied to  JBB @1.1.1    5 months ago

Please show where these international protocols are written. Please source your claim.

 
 
Texan1211
1.1.3  Texan1211  replied to  Texan1211 @1.1.2    5 months ago

That's what I thought you'd provide.

Nada.

 
 
Tessylo
1.1.4  Tessylo  replied to  Texan1211 @1.1.3    5 months ago
'That's what I thought you'd provide.

           Nada'

Talking to yourself now and saying you provide Nada as fact.

Attaboy!

 
 
Texan1211
1.1.5  Texan1211  replied to  Tessylo @1.1.4    5 months ago

Stalking me?

 
 
tomwcraig
1.1.6  tomwcraig  replied to  Tessylo @1.1.4    5 months ago

You do realize, up until now, every sovereign nation has been allowed to decide their own capital EXCEPT Israel?  Plus, each nation, in an agreement with each nation where such embassies are, decides the actual location of the embassy without input of outside nations?  Most often the embassies are located in the capital of the nation and then consulates are put up in other locations to aid people in getting into contact with the government of the nation that has the embassy and consulates.  Plus, a law was passed here in the USA in 1995 that recognizes that Jerusalem is the capital of Israel and requires the US Embassy to be moved there.  However, every 6 months the previous US Presidents (Clinton, Bush, and Obama) have issued a waiver preventing the move for "National Security" reasons.

As for the protests, many of the people protesting are in it for foreign money from Iran and other nations that have vowed the destruction of Israel.  If they get wounded, they get a certain amount, if they get killed their families get a lot more.  Essentially, we are blaming Israel for protecting itself from an invasion by an Astroturf movement being run by terrorist sponsoring states that cannot beat Israel in a straight up fight as shown in 1948, 1967, and 1973.

 
 
JohnRussell
1.1.7  JohnRussell  replied to  tomwcraig @1.1.6    5 months ago

The Trump administration will singlehandedly destroy any moral high ground Israel had over the movement of the embassy. 

 
 
Texan1211
1.1.8  Texan1211  replied to  JohnRussell @1.1.7    5 months ago

Moral high ground?

WTF?
Israel already has it. EVERY nation on earth gets to pick its own capital. WHY would Israel be the ONLY One not afforded that same right?

 
 
Tessylo
1.1.9  Tessylo  replied to  Texan1211 @1.1.5    5 months ago
Stalking me?

 
 
Texan1211
1.1.11  Texan1211  replied to  Tessylo @1.1.9    5 months ago

I'm still flattered that you love my posts so much that you feel it necessary to post them again.

Would you like me to save you the trouble and just post everything twice so you don't have to?

 
 
Texan1211
1.1.12  Texan1211  replied to  Tessylo @1.1.9    5 months ago

I'm still flattered that you love my posts so much that you feel it necessary to post them again.

Would you like me to save you the trouble and just post everything twice so you don't have to?

 
 
Greg Jones
1.1.13  Greg Jones  replied to  JohnRussell @1.1.7    5 months ago
The Trump administration will singlehandedly destroy any moral high ground Israel had over the movement of the embassy.

Are you saying that Hamas aka "Palestinians" has the moral high ground here?? laughing dude

 
 
The Magic Eight Ball
1.1.14  The Magic Eight Ball  replied to  JohnRussell @1.1.7    5 months ago
The Trump administration will singlehandedly destroy any moral high ground Israel had over the movement of the embassy.

even if true ( which it is not) the embassy will remain in jerusalem.

and that makes it very hard for the palestinians to "claim" jerusalem as their capital city.

 

 
 
1stwarrior
1.1.15  1stwarrior  replied to  JohnRussell @1.1.7    5 months ago

John - Man, I'd LOVE to see you explain how that's gonna happen.

 
 
Tacos!
1.1.16  Tacos!  replied to  Greg Jones @1.1    5 months ago

I agree, but if you care about international support (and I think they do a little), you have to know that firing live ammo into a crowd is going to be bad optics. The US has that caravan at the Mexican border, and as much as I would like to us turn fire hoses on those people climbing the fence, the only result would be sympathy for people who are basically invaders.

It's like with hockey fights. It's always the counterpuncher who gets sent to the penalty box.

 
 
JohnRussell
1.1.17  JohnRussell  replied to  1stwarrior @1.1.15    5 months ago

1st, they didn't need to have a production over the opening of the embassy in Jerusalem, all they had to do was say it was open and functioning. 

The timing of the opening of the embassy in Jerusalem was Trump's choice. He chose to do it on a day when an idiot could predict there would be trouble in the Palestinian areas. The day was the 70th anniversary of a traumatic day for the Palestinians (and the Israelis) 

===============

State of Israel proclaimed - May 14, 1948 - HISTORY.com

https://www.history.com/this-day-in-history/state-of-israel-proclaimed

On May 14, 1948, in Tel Aviv, Jewish Agency Chairman David Ben-Gurion proclaims the State of Israel, establishing the first Jewish state in 2,000 years.

==============

The making a tv production out of moving the embassy to Jerusalem is INTENDED to rub the Palestinians noses in it, and to make the point that the US is no longer a fair broker for mideast peace, we are now ENTIRELY on the side of Israel. It is also intended to give the Palestinians the message that their's is now a lost cause, that there will be no "two state solution" and that Israel will assert complete dominance over all of this land. The Palestinians will have to accept second class citizen status in Israel, or leave. 

Trump will create more desperation in the area, and as Israel displays it's arrogance and hubris more openly, more sympathy for the Palestinians will be created internationally. 

 
 
Rmando
1.1.18  Rmando  replied to  JohnRussell @1.1.17    5 months ago

Yes, how dare any country not be allowed to do anything they want on an anniversary of their founding. We should all adjust our time table to placate terrorists. After all it's just like criticizing a victim  of a violent assault for how they were dressed or why they weren't safe at home. Maybe we can make the terrorists happy in our country by staying inside on the Fourth of July and hiding under our beds.

 
 
r.t..b...
1.1.19  r.t..b...  replied to  Rmando @1.1.18    5 months ago
and hiding under our beds.

...or putting on blinders, or plugging our ears. The day Israel became a state is the day tens of thousands of Palestinians effectively became refugees in their own home. I do not endorse Hamas and find their tactics horrendous, but to not acknowledge their history is to exacerbate the tensions. They must have a place at the table if anyone is serious about resolving the situation, but sometimes I wonder if that is attainable or even desired...all anyone knows is the fighting.

 
 
Rmando
1.1.20  Rmando  replied to  r.t..b... @1.1.19    5 months ago

The Palestinians could have been absorbed by neighboring countries decades ago. They were originally paid for their land in the beginning of the Zionist movement started by Theodore Hertzl. It was their land originally and after getting kicked around the world for centuries I don't blame the Israelis for wanting a county of their own to avoid persecution. The same countries who are condemning Israel now are the same ones who refused Jewish refugees a haven during the Nazi regimes control. 

 
 
JBB
1.1.21  seeder  JBB  replied to  Rmando @1.1.20    5 months ago
The same countries who are condemning Israel now are the same ones who refused Jewish refugees a haven during the Nazi regimes control.

In a long tradition of “persecuting the refugee,” which we still see regarding refugees from the Middle East the State Department claimed that Jewish immigrants could threaten national security

https://www.smithsonianmag.com/history/us-government-turned-away-thousands-jewish-refugees-fearing-they-were-nazi-spies-180957324/
 
 
Greg Jones
1.1.22  Greg Jones  replied to  JohnRussell @1.1.17    5 months ago
we are now ENTIRELY on the side of Israel. It is also intended to give the Palestinians the message that their's is now a lost cause, that there will be no "two state solution" and that Israel will assert complete dominance over all of this land. The Palestinians will have to accept second class citizen status in Israel, or leave.

That is pretty much correct. Most right thinking and fair minded patriotic Americans feel the same way. You have to wonder why some, predominately left wingers, support entities like Hamas, Hezbollah, the Muslim Brotherhood, and other terrorist groups who are bent on Israel's destruction.
 
 
JohnRussell
1.1.23  JohnRussell  replied to  Rmando @1.1.18    5 months ago
Yes, how dare any country not be allowed to do anything they want on an anniversary of their founding.

Trump decided when this would take place. The United States is supposed to be a fair broker of peace between Israel and the Palestinians. That is obviously no longer the case. 

 
 
Texan1211
1.1.24  Texan1211  replied to  JohnRussell @1.1.17    5 months ago

Tough titties if Palestinians didn't want Israel here.

 
 
Rmando
1.1.25  Rmando  replied to  JohnRussell @1.1.23    5 months ago

We don't owe the Palestinians anything and neither do we to Iran, Hezbollah or Hamas. We can talk to them when they decide to enter the 21st century.

 
 
livefreeordie
1.1.26  livefreeordie  replied to  JohnRussell @1.1.23    5 months ago

Another leftist who demands Israel not defend itself from those who wish Hitler had finished off the Jews

“At least 24 Hamas and Islamic Jihad terrorists were among those killed in yesterday's riots. These are soldiers in Hamas' terror army who attacked the border to murder Israeli citizens living nearby.

Headlines around the world yesterday demonized Israel. Today the truth is coming out. Will the world ignore it and still blame Israel? Or will the world stand up to Hamas?

Hamas is stealing any chance Israel and the Palestinians have at peace. Demand the international community stop Hamas at StopHamas.org”

7DC5D49E63374F81B183175233ACB3F3.jpeg

 
 
Cerenkov
1.1.27  Cerenkov  replied to  tomwcraig @1.1.6    5 months ago

Holding Israel to a higher, different standard is one the accepted definitions of anti-Semitism. 

 
 
Vic Eldred
1.1.28  Vic Eldred  replied to  JohnRussell @1.1.17    5 months ago
The making a tv production out of moving the embassy to Jerusalem is INTENDED to rub the Palestinians noses in it, and to make the point that the US is no longer a fair broker for mideast peace,

Maybe the Palestinians should have taken one of those generous offers they received over many decades. It's too late for the Jew haters & murderous Hamas. Brokering peace with these impossible radicals is now priority # 9 zillion.

They are reaping what they sowed

 
 
Krishna
1.1.29  Krishna  replied to  JBB @1.1.1    5 months ago
 the death count update on the numbers killed are Palestinian protesters killed by Israeli Defense Forces Sixty and Israelis killed by the Gaza protesters Zero.

I've seen that sort of faulty logic used quite frequently: a source compares the death tolls on both sides and attempts to imply that the way to determine which side are "the good guys" is determined by which side suffers more civilian casualties.

Of course using that sort of faulty logic would lead one to conclude that Nazi Germany was "the good guys" in WWII (due to their large number of civilian deaths), and the U.S. were "the bad guys" (compared to Nazi Germany, U;S. civilian casualties in WWII were a very tiny number).

BTW the reason the Palestinians haven so many civilian casualties is because they actually want more civilian casualties-- as strange as that may seem to us. And perhaps even more surprising-- they actually admit it!xxx(I realize that this is a rather long video for people on Newstalkers-- 45 seconds!!!-- but IMO its worth watching :-)

Hamas using Palestinians as human shields: We desire Death as you desire Life

 
 
Krishna
1.1.30  Krishna  replied to  tomwcraig @1.1.6    5 months ago
You do realize, up until now, every sovereign nation has been allowed to decide their own capital EXCEPT Israel? 

I have also thought that bizarre.

Imagine, for example, if surrounding countries (in this case it would be Canada and Mexico) demanded that the U.S. has no right to keep our capital in Washington, but must move it to another city?

Or worse yet-- what if many other countries demanded the same thing? And the UN General Assembly passed a resolution saying that we Americans should not be able to decide where our capital is-- rather, they will tell us what's acceptable?

Or-- what if the U.S. and some of our allies decided that Mexico must move their capital. (Maybe to Cozumel-- an added bonus--beautiful beaches! And anyway, Unfortunately their current capital, Mexico City, is landlocked ).

 
 
Skrekk
1.1.31  Skrekk  replied to  Texan1211 @1.1.2    5 months ago
Please show where these international protocols are written.

You mean like UNGA resolution ES‑10/L.22 which echoes previous UNSC resolutions on the status of Jerusalem ?

Carrying out a promise to his base of supporters, Mr. Trump upended decades of American policy with his decision on Jerusalem, aggravating an emotional issue that has festered since the 1967 Arab-Israeli war, when the Israelis occupied the entire city.

Many Security Council resolutions since then, which have the force of international law, have warned that Jerusalem’s status is unresolved, that claims of sovereignty by Israel are invalid and that the issue must be settled in negotiations between the Israelis and Palestinians.

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/12/21/world/middleeast/trump-jerusalem-united-nations.html

 
 
Texan1211
1.1.32  Texan1211  replied to  Skrekk @1.1.31    5 months ago

The Palestinians don't want to negotiate. Who you trying to kid?

SMDH

 
 
Texan1211
1.1.33  Texan1211  replied to  Skrekk @1.1.31    5 months ago

"The resolution is nonbinding and therefore largely symbolic, but the vote indicated the extent to which the Trump administration’s departure from a 50-year international consensus on Jerusalem’s status has unsettled world politics and contributed to America’s diplomatic isolation."

From your very own source. Thanks!

 
 
Krishna
1.1.34  Krishna  replied to  r.t..b... @1.1.19    5 months ago
The day Israel became a state is the day tens of thousands of Palestinians effectively became refugees in their own home.

Some choose that. Other didn't.

Are you by any chance aware of the fact that some decided not to leave and remain in Israel to become citizens? And this may surprise you-- over 20%  of Israeli citizens are Arabs? (And ironically, they have the right to vote-- something they wouldn't have in most Arab countries which are not democracies but horrendous dictatorships?). 

Note: Those that stayed are no longer referred to as "Palestinians" but rather as "Israeli Arabs". Unlike Jewish citizens that are exempt from the draft, although some do enlist voluntarily)

 
 
Buzz of the Orient
1.1.35  Buzz of the Orient  replied to  Skrekk @1.1.31    5 months ago
"Many Security Council resolutions since then, which have the force of international law,..."

I guess International Law is about as binding as a UNSC resolution.  But if you're really interested in International Law, perhaps you should read this:

https://www.israpundit.org/international-law-and-the-state-of-israel/

 
 
Krishna
1.1.36  Krishna  replied to  The Magic Eight Ball @1.1.14    5 months ago
and that makes it very hard for the palestinians to "claim" jerusalem as their capital city.

Actually there could be a solution-- West Jerusalem remains part of Israel, East Jerusalem becomes part of a future Palestinian state. (That would mean that there would be an international border between the two parts of the city-- but that need not be a problem). 

 
 
Skrekk
1.1.37  Skrekk  replied to  Buzz of the Orient @1.1.35    5 months ago
I guess International Law is about as binding as a UNSC resolution.

That's certainly why Bush was able to get away with running a torture conspiracy in direct violation of US and international law.

 
 
tomwcraig
1.1.38  tomwcraig  replied to  Krishna @1.1.30    5 months ago

Well, do you remember East and West Germany?  East Germany's capital was East Berlin (which was similar to the situation in Jerusalem for most of the time that modern Israel has existed).  The United States, Great Britain, and France did not tell the Soviet Union that East Germany could not have East Berlin as its capital, despite the agreement that West Berlin was occupied by the USA, UK, and France.

 
 
tomwcraig
1.1.39  tomwcraig  replied to  JBB @1.1.21    5 months ago

The only reasons Palestinians are refugees are because 1) They fought against the formation of Israel in 1948, 2) moved and lived in land owned by Jordan (The West Bank) and Egypt (The Gaza Strip), and 3) after Israel defeated them in 1967 and 1973, Egypt and Jordan continuously refused the return of The West Bank and The Gaza Strip from Israel.  Israel never really wanted control over either land; but because Jordan and Egypt refused to accept the land back, it became a limbo and essentially the same as giant refugee camps.

 
 
Buzz of the Orient
1.1.40  Buzz of the Orient  replied to  JBB @1.1.1    5 months ago

The posting of this article and your comments do make one think your preference would be that the numbers were opposite, but then the Arab-controlled UN and the left-leaning media wouldn't give a shit about it. Only Israel gets condemned, and that's for trying to protect its sovereignty and its citizens.

 
 
JBB
1.1.41  seeder  JBB  replied to  Buzz of the Orient @1.1.40    5 months ago

(CoC violation deleted) Telo

 
 
JBB
1.1.42  seeder  JBB  replied to  Krishna @1.1.29    5 months ago
I've seen that sort of faulty logic used quite frequently:

Do you deny the number of Palestinians reported killed by CNN in the Gaza protests? This story was sourced inside Isreal. What numbers do you have? Do you have and credible information that this story is untrue or inaccurate? 

 
 
Buzz of the Orient
1.1.43  Buzz of the Orient  replied to  JBB @1.1.41    5 months ago

I don't give a shit what the source is if it is going to be critical of and disparages what Israel is forced to do to protect its sovereignty and its citizens. If the left-leaning Israel-bashing media is going to be the mouthpiece for terrorists, I have no choice but to look elsewhere for truth.

PROTEST 0.jpg

“PEACEFUL” GAZA PROTESTS FEATURE BOMBS, CLEAVERS AND FIREBOMBS

By Daniel Greenfield, FPM, May 14, 2017:

PROTEST 1.png

Here’s a few quick tips for telling apart a peaceful protest and violent assault.

1. Peaceful protesters bring signs. Violent attackers bring cleavers and bombs.

2. Peaceful protesters seek a peaceful resolution. Violent attackers want to kill or be killed.

3. Peaceful protests are organized by peaceful organizations. When a terrorist group like Hamas organizers a protest, it’s never going to be peaceful.

PROTEST 2.jpg

 
 
JBB
1.1.44  seeder  JBB  replied to  Buzz of the Orient @1.1.43    5 months ago

I seeded a news story. All you did is attack the source. You'd have a cow if others acted so childishly...

 
 
Spikegary
1.1.45  Spikegary  replied to  Skrekk @1.1.37    5 months ago

Dear Seeder-I thought you said no 'off topic'?

 
 
Buzz of the Orient
1.1.46  Buzz of the Orient  replied to  JBB @1.1.44    5 months ago

It's a response to your criticism of my posting articles from Gatestone Institute. Even what you call "news" has its bias in what is reported and what is not - much more subtle than opinion, but still just as capable of influencing readers.

 
 
Spikegary
1.1.47  Spikegary  replied to  tomwcraig @1.1.39    5 months ago

Was there a country, recognized by the U.N., before the formation of Israel, known as Palestine?

 
 
Spikegary
1.1.48  Spikegary  replied to  JBB @1.1.41    5 months ago

Along with the unarmed Molotov Cocktail and rock throwers (mentioned in the story you posted) along with a terror operation stopped (all under the guise of a demonstration)?  Should the Israelis wait until these folks are inside the fence setting off bombs and attackign people?  The Israelis have every right to defend their border.

 
 
JBB
1.1.49  seeder  JBB  replied to  Buzz of the Orient @1.1.46    5 months ago

The News Talkers does not allow content to be seeded from known hate sites such as Stormfront and The News Talkers should not allow the anti-Islamic crapola from Gatestone either . It is a fact that Gatestone employs Russian trolls to spread their reprehensible content onto the American internet and reputable sites should not allow it considering misleading hateful inflammatory bullshit content Gatestone produced and publishes. This is my opinion and I am as entitled to hold opinions and express them freely as you or anyone else on this site so can the condescension...  

Unlike the crap we all all too often see seeded by you right here on The News Talkers from The Gatestone Institute I have merely seeded news stories from reputable sources. Likewise it is not up to you to approve or to disapprove what news Americans on this site or any other in the US of A are allowed to read and discuss especially considering you are sequestered behind the Chinese Communist Red Curtain. You cannot even access much of the news we see and you certainly are often sadly unaware of what is really going on outside that bubble judging by the pronouncements you make here. You have tried and tried to derail this article and been almost entirely off topic. Thank you for participating but take a damn look in the mirror before going off on irrelevant tangents regarding what you presume of others whom you do not know and know nothing about other than what you have gleaned here. You are entitled to your own opinions no matter how misguided or prejudicial but you are not entitled to dictate to others what we are allowed to seed, read, discuss or think... 

 
 
The Magic Eight Ball
1.1.51  The Magic Eight Ball  replied to  Krishna @1.1.36    5 months ago
(That would mean that there would be an international border between the two parts of the city-- but that need not be a problem)

maybe for you "not a problem"

sure berlin had two capitals, east and west. but both for the same country that was split and then reunified.  palestinians are not going to reunify with israel. and there will be no wall built down the middle of the city like there was in berlin

with the US and others recognizing jerusalem as israel'ss capital? that argument is settled.

two different countries will never share the same capital city.  simply not happening folks.

 
 
tomwcraig
1.1.52  tomwcraig  replied to  Spikegary @1.1.47    5 months ago

No, there wasn't.  Palestine was a territory first of the Ottoman Empire, then of Great Britain.  It never was an independent country.  The actual territory has many names: Canaan, Kingdoms of Judea and Israel, Judea, the Holy Land, etc.  But, there was never a Palestine as a country.

EDIT: There was a proposal in 1948 for there to be a two-state solution: Israel and Palestine; but the Arabs rejected it.  So, it never came into being.

 
 
tomwcraig
1.1.53  tomwcraig  replied to  The Magic Eight Ball @1.1.51    5 months ago

West Berlin was never a capital of West Germany.  Bonn was West Germany's capital.

 
 
Buzz of the Orient
1.1.54  Buzz of the Orient  replied to  JBB @1.1.21    5 months ago

Not something Americans can be proud of - remembering the S.S.St.Louis.

 
 
Buzz of the Orient
1.1.55  Buzz of the Orient  replied to  livefreeordie @1.1.26    5 months ago
"Headlines around the world yesterday demonized Israel. Today the truth is coming out. Will the world ignore it and still blame Israel? Or will the world stand up to Hamas?"

As you can see today, that may as well just be a rhetorical question.

 
 
Krishna
1.1.56  Krishna  replied to  Spikegary @1.1.47    5 months ago
Was there a country, recognized by the U.N., before the formation of Israel, known as Palestine?

IUn fact, there was never, in the entire history of the world, any national or ethnic identity known as "Palestinian".

Yes, the term "Palestini" existed, but it wasn't a distince identity. Rather, it was the name of the region-- not a distinct country.

Much like in the U.S., for example "Southerners" or "Mid-Westerners" or "New Englanders".

Or in other parts of the Western Hemisphere "South Americans" ...and  in Asia: Indians, Pakistanis, and Sri Lankans as a group are referred to as "South Asians". 

Like "Palestine" None of these is a distinct national or even ethnic identity-- its a description of a geographical area. 

 
 
Krishna
1.1.57  Krishna  replied to  Krishna @1.1.56    5 months ago

Like "Palestine" None of these is a distinct national or even ethnic identity-- its a description of a geographical area. 

And here's an interesting fact: before 1948 (when the Jews got their ancient homeland back) Jews from that area often referred to themselves as "Palestinians" or "Palestinian Jews"-- meaning Jews living in the roughly defined area called "Palestine" (as opposed to, for example, Egyptian Jews-- or Iraqi Jews, South American Jews, etc.

Here's an animated map that show the history of theMiddle East. Notice when the first Jewish state appeared-- and when the first Palestinian state appeared (or did it?)

 
 
Tessylo
1.1.58  Tessylo  replied to  Texan1211 @1.1.24    5 months ago
'Tough titties if Palestinians didn't want Israel here.'

Typical low brow response - no surprise.  

 
 
Texan1211
1.1.59  Texan1211  replied to  Tessylo @1.1.58    5 months ago

Derogatory behavior. Removed. - PRF

 
 
Tessylo
1.1.60  Tessylo  replied to  Texan1211 @1.1.59    5 months ago

Removed for context. PRF  

 
 
It Is ME
2  It Is ME    5 months ago

Moral of this "NEWS" story: BlahBlahBlah

"FOOLS rush in, and apparently bring their kids with them (18 month old killed?) ! " thumbs down

AND

"It's all Trumps FAULT (He's moving a building) ! " Face Palm

I "FEAR" for the "FOOLS" kids ! eek

 
 
magnoliaave
3  magnoliaave    5 months ago

How can anyone blame Israel for the violence that is taking place?  I suggest that if you know you could be injured or killed....stay home like your leader is doing. 

 
 
JBB
3.1  seeder  JBB  replied to  magnoliaave @3    5 months ago

In the real world desperate people often resort to desperate means. The international community is calling on Israeli Defense Forces to stop firing on unarmed protesters on the other side of the boarder between Gaza and Israel. The humanitarian situation is dire. Doctors Without Boarders is pleading for help. My friend who is a Christian medical missionary, a MD, volunteering in Gaze tells me the situation there is deplorable and many deprivations are being suffered by all Palestinians there irregardless of if they are protesters...

 
 
Texan1211
3.1.1  Texan1211  replied to  JBB @3.1    5 months ago

Maybe they should be calling for Palestinians to STOP their protests over what occurs on ISREALI soil.

 
 
It Is ME
3.1.2  It Is ME  replied to  JBB @3.1    5 months ago
In the real world desperate people often resort to desperate means.

To bad they keep "Blaming" others instead of their own "Fake" government.

 
 
Greg Jones
3.1.3  Greg Jones  replied to  JBB @3.1    5 months ago
many deprivations are being suffered by all Palestinians there irregardless of if they are protesters...

It's all their own fault. The hate Israel more than they love their own people. The Israelis have a right to exist and to have their historical capital in their historical homeland

 
 
Krishna
3.1.4  Krishna  replied to  JBB @3.1    5 months ago
In the real world desperate people often resort to desperate means.

Of course what you failed to mention is the reason why Palestinians are desperate. (Yes, its totally their own doing),

 
 
Krishna
3.1.5  Krishna  replied to  JBB @3.1    5 months ago
The humanitarian situation is dire. Doctors Without Boarders is pleading for help. My friend who is a Christian medical missionary, a MD, volunteering in Gaze tells me the situation there is deplorable and many deprivations are being suffered by all Palestinians there irregardless of if they are protesters...

That reminds me of an old joke-- a "doctor joke". (Its not actually all that funny, but it makes a good point):

A guy goes to a doctor complaining of a terrible pain in his shoulder. The doctor asks him some questions about it and he responds. 

Then the doctor asks him "does it always hurt-- or just sometimes?"

The patient lifts his arm high above his head and say "Not all the time-- in fact, it only hurts when I go like this".

"OK" says the doctor. "Then don't go like this" (Doctor raises arm high above head)

 
 
Krishna
3.1.6  Krishna  replied to  JBB @3.1    5 months ago
he humanitarian situation is dire. Doctors Without Boarders is pleading for help. My friend who is a Christian medical missionary, a MD, volunteering in Gaze tells me the situation there is deplorable and many deprivations are being suffered by all Palestinians there irregardless of if they are protesters...

Of course its dire-- because that's what Hamas wants!

BTW, just curious-- do you have any Christian missionary Dr friends in Syria? If so-- have they mentioned anything about their experiences there?

 
 
Done
3.1.7  Done  replied to  JBB @3.1    5 months ago

Yeah pretty much hard to get to worked up over the fact that you have a bunch of freaking insane Palestinians willing to relegate themselves to human status for God knows who or what reason because they’re mostly just freaking insane people and there’s nothing much you can do about that.

 
 
Buzz of the Orient
3.1.8  Buzz of the Orient  replied to  JBB @3.1    5 months ago

Life for the Gazans was not so bad before Hamas took over. I've read interviews with Gazans from before Hamas was in control - they were pretty happy with their life. I particularly remember one interview with a man who said that he had a good job in Israel, could afford whatever he needed, and now he can't even afford to buy a cigarette.  Why blame Israel when Hamas caused all the problems?

 
 
Spikegary
3.1.9  Spikegary  replied to  JBB @3.1    5 months ago

Unarmed Molotov Cocktail Throwers and Rock Throwers?

 
 
Buzz of the Orient
3.1.10  Buzz of the Orient  replied to  JBB @3.1    5 months ago

Why do you ignore the fact that their being "desperate" was caused by their voting in a terrorist government? Things were not so bad in Gaza, people had good jobs in Israel, going back and forth was almost as easy as crossing the Canada-America border, there was no blockade, but then Hamas started firing rockets and missiles into Israel, and only then the good times were over, and only then, Hamas was able to create the conditions for the Gazans to resort to "desperate means", and it's apparent to me, if not to you, that in the case of this "March" with its burning tires, molotov cocktails and fiery kites, etc., their actually being "herded" like sheep to put themselves in jeopardy.

 
 
Krishna
3.1.11  Krishna  replied to  JBB @3.1    5 months ago
The humanitarian situation is dire.

JBB-- are you aware of the fact that the Palestinians actually want to be killed? 

Its hard for a westerner to understand some vastly different cultures, but these people actual want to die-- strange as it may seem to us, they actually believe if they die "fighting for Allah" they will end up in eternal paradise! Yes-- they do believe that-- in fact they actively seek death.

Heck-- they even teach it to their kids!!! (And being brainwashed from such  an early age-- the kids are actually raisdd to believe death is an wonderful  goal!)

The reason they are dying is because they actively choose to do so-- of their own free will! 

 
 
Krishna
3.2  Krishna  replied to  magnoliaave @3    5 months ago
How can anyone blame Israel for the violence that is taking place?  I suggest that if you know you could be injured or killed....stay home like your leader is doing.

I would also recommend that the ones that insist that they must go to the border to provoke Israel leave the kids back home. (But of course many want their kids to die-- it plays great in western media! So these sickos bring them along in hopes their kids will be killed :-(

Its difficult to imagine how totally sick Palestinian society is (well, actually many other parts of the Arab are just as bad:

 Son's death was "best day of my life," says Palestinian mother

 
 
Tessylo
3.3  Tessylo  replied to  magnoliaave @3    5 months ago
'How can anyone blame Israel for the violence that is taking place?'

Because they are firing on and killing unarmed protesters, that's why.  

 
 
It Is ME
4  It Is ME    5 months ago

By the way....who is tabulating the ACTUAL Dead and Wounded anyway.

From the Vids coming out of that area, ALL I've seen are a few fake booboo's on supposed "MEN", bandaged in a single white rag on a leg, hurriedly being carted off on a wood platform, and NO RED SHOWING what-so-ever, as they sit up and watch where they are going.

Maybe these "MEN" are looking to make sure they aren't going to topple over and ACTUALLY get hurt.

I haven't seen a Dead or Wounded person yet. Usually these folks will show a hospital full of hurt children when they Fuck themselves up.

Maybe those pictures will come later after they've had a chance to stage the "Effects" ?

WTF ?

Hmmmmmmmmm. thinking

 
 
Ender
4.1  Ender  replied to  It Is ME @4    5 months ago

I didn't see pictures of the dead after the shooting in Vegas (nor do I want or need to) yet I know it happened.

 
 
It Is ME
4.1.1  It Is ME  replied to  Ender @4.1    5 months ago
I didn't see pictures of the dead after the shooting in Vegas (nor do I want or need to) yet I know it happened.

The "Palestinians" weren't reporting on "Vegas". 

 
 
Ender
4.1.2  Ender  replied to  It Is ME @4.1.1    5 months ago

Still applies, you want pictures of dead people or you won't believe it.

 
 
It Is ME
4.1.3  It Is ME  replied to  Ender @4.1.2    5 months ago
Still applies,

Nope !

We are WE, they are THEY. THEY luv's them some "Hurt or Dead" people picks for THEY'RE cause.

 
 
Buzz of the Orient
4.2  Buzz of the Orient  replied to  It Is ME @4    5 months ago

There was an article (I did not bother to post it because the video could not be opened here) about a guy being carried away in a stretcher, and when the Hamas videographer stopped shooting the scene, another videographer continued, showing the guy getting off the stretcher.  But come on, kids in the USA GROW UP with Disney films, so it will obviously have the intended effect. Hell, the Hamas reports about wounded and dead are continually swallowed up by the mainstream media, and the UN only sees one side of the issue.

I've made a great offer to anyone on this site of a highway toll booth that can make a person rich, and I can't understand when I've had no inquiries from the NT members who believe the Hamas reports carried by the mainstream media.

 
 
A. Macarthur
5  A. Macarthur    5 months ago

A Grotesque Spectacle in Jerusalem

May 14, 2018

On Monday, Ivanka Trump, Jared Kushner and other leading lights of the Trumpist right gathered in Israel to celebrate the relocation of the American Embassy to Jerusalem, a gesture widely seen as a slap in the face to Palestinians who envision East Jerusalem as their future capital.

The event was grotesque. It was a consummation of the cynical alliance between hawkish Jews and Zionist evangelicals who believe that the return of Jews to Israel will usher in the apocalypse and the return of Christ, after which Jews who don’t convert will burn forever. Religions like “Mormonism, Islam, Judaism, Hinduism” lead people “to an eternity of separation from God in Hell,” Robert Jeffress, a Dallas megachurch pastor, once said. He was chosen to give the opening prayer at the embassy ceremony. John Hagee, one of America’s most prominent end-times preachers, once said that Hitler was sent by God to drive the Jews to their ancestral homeland. He gave the closing benediction.

This spectacle, geared toward Donald Trump’s Christian American base, coincided with a massacre about 40 miles away. Since March 30, there have been mass protests at the fence separating Gaza and Israel. Gazans, facing an escalating humanitarian crisis due in large part to an Israeli blockade, are demanding the right to return to homes in Israel that their families were forced from at Israel’s founding. The demonstrators have been mostly but not entirely peaceful; Gazans have thrown rocks at Israeli soldiers and tried to fly flaming kites into Israel. The Israeli military has responded with live gunfire as well as rubber bullets and tear gas. In clashes on Monday, at least 58 Palestinians were killed and thousands wounded, according to the Gaza Health Ministry.

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/05/14/opinion/jerusalem-embassy-gaza-protests.html

________________________________________________________________

My personal opinion …

A POX ON ALL THEIR (RELIGIONIST) HOUSES!

The psychotic state-of-mind, and, the oxymoronic term "religious thought," is the very basis for the perceived "necessity" of the religionist, to have an entity euphemistically foisted on the world as, "Our Religious Homeland!"

What fairyland-mentality prays to "God" for "peace," while making war on perceived "infidels" who do the very same? This ecclesiastical-masturbation is low-hanging fruit for the politicians and cleric-power brokers who, after being ultimately responsible for sending other people's children to holy wars to die for an ideology, call on their minions to pray for the dead and to "thank God" for those whose lives were spared."

REALLY?

 
 
It Is ME
5.1  It Is ME  replied to  A. Macarthur @5    5 months ago
On Monday, Ivanka Trump, Jared Kushner and other leading lights of the Trumpist right gathered in Israel to celebrate the relocation of the American Embassy to Jerusalem, a gesture widely seen as a slap in the face to Palestinians who envision East Jerusalem as their future capital.

So, "talking" about doing it for a few decades, was better, or was it just a "Placate" thing ?

I like the "Doing what one ACTUALLY says" ! Then there is no questions or Imaginations to ponder when they DON'T !

 
 
A. Macarthur
5.1.2  A. Macarthur  replied to  Cerenkov @5.1.1    5 months ago

The author of the so-called standard for detecting anti-semitism is Nathan Sharansky …

Far from an altruist.

Let's connect some dots.

Previously he served as the Deputy Prime Minister of Israel, Minister of Housing and Construction since March 2001, Interior Minister of Israel (July 1999 – resigned in July 2000), Minister of Industry and Trade (1996–1999).

He resigned from the cabinet in April 2005 to protest plans to withdraw Israeli settlements from the Gaza Strip and northern West Bank.

He was re-elected to the Knesset in March 2006 as a member of the Likud Party. On 20 November 2006, he resigned from the Knesset.

NGO work and other activities

His resignation was meant to allow him to form the right-leaning Adelson Institute for Strategic Studies. The funding came from American billionaire Sheldon Adelson.

That's the same Sheldon Adelson who gave Trump $ 30 million by way of the GOP

Sheldon Adelson gives $30 million in bid to save

House GOP majority — and could give more this year

https://www.cnbc.com/2018/05/10/sheldon-adelson-gives-30-million-to-house-gop-super-pac.html

  • Billionaire Sheldon Adelson is giving $30 million to a super PAC pushing to protect the House GOP majority.
  • The casino magnate is open to giving more to Republican midterm efforts this year.
 
 
Cerenkov
5.1.3  Cerenkov  replied to  A. Macarthur @5.1.2    5 months ago

Deflection. Is Canada part of this vast conspiracy as well?

https://m.huffingtonpost.ca/avi-benlolo/anti-semitism-canada_b_973587.html

 
 
Texan1211
5.1.4  Texan1211  replied to  A. Macarthur @5.1.2    5 months ago

So a Jew can't define what is anti-Semitism?

 
 
Cerenkov
5.1.5  Cerenkov  replied to  Texan1211 @5.1.4    5 months ago

Of course not! Only liberals get to define what offends them.

 
 
A. Macarthur
5.1.6  A. Macarthur  replied to  Texan1211 @5.1.4    5 months ago
So a Jew can't define what is anti-Semitism?

Anyone can define anything … arbitrarily or logically and definitively … BUT WHEN THE ONE DOING THE DEFINING HAS A DISTINCT CONFLICT-OF-INTERESTS …

… in order to determine motive and credibility … such conflict needs to be brought to the light of day.

You have a consistent tactical approach to many of your comments to me, namely to ask "gotcha'" questions instead of actually providing specific rebuttal information.

Once again, I request that, unless you actually have a substantive, non-rhetorical response to any of my comments …

… ignore what I write and I'll ignore you as well.

 
 
A. Macarthur
5.1.7  A. Macarthur  replied to  Cerenkov @5.1.5    5 months ago
Of course not! Only liberals get to define what offends them.

A broad-brush pronouncement.

 
 
Texan1211
5.1.8  Texan1211  replied to  Cerenkov @5.1.5    5 months ago

See, here how it goes in liberal America:

Blacks define what is racist toward blacks. So do any Asians or Latinos. But Jews aren't afforded that luxury in America because the left has too many Arab sympathizers.

 
 
A. Macarthur
5.1.9  A. Macarthur  replied to  Cerenkov @5.1.3    5 months ago
Is Canada part of this vast conspiracy as well?
I addressed YOUR POSTED LINK and discredited the individual motive behind the contention discussed.
Feel free to rebut with specifics rather than evade the reality.

 
 
Cerenkov
5.1.10  Cerenkov  replied to  A. Macarthur @5.1.9    5 months ago

Actually, you engaged in the messenger fallacy again. Apparently, we should just discount any of these allegations from Gaza since Hamas is a state sponsor of terrorism. That's how it works, right?

 
 
Cerenkov
5.1.11  Cerenkov  replied to  A. Macarthur @5.1.7    5 months ago

And all so accurate.

 
 
A. Macarthur
5.1.12  A. Macarthur  replied to  Cerenkov @5.1.10    5 months ago
Actually, you engaged in the messenger fallacy again. Apparently, we should just discount any of these allegations from Gaza since Hamas is a state sponsor of terrorism. That's how it works, right?

You … posted the link which dealt with one individuals "test" for antisemitism.

If you don't want any discussion with regard to things you post … don't post them.

YOU posted …

Cerenkov
 
 
Buzz of the Orient
5.1.13  Buzz of the Orient  replied to  Texan1211 @5.1.4    5 months ago

The Ottawa Protocol, copied by the US State Department and the European Union working papers on anti-Semitism define anti-Semitism perfectly well. It's the guideline I rely on.

 
 
Buzz of the Orient
5.1.14  Buzz of the Orient  replied to  A. Macarthur @5.1.9    5 months ago

(Author called Off topic) 

 
 
Krishna
5.1.15  Krishna  replied to  Buzz of the Orient @5.1.14    5 months ago

(Author called off topic) Telo

 
 
Buzz of the Orient
5.1.16  Buzz of the Orient  replied to  Cerenkov @5.1.1    5 months ago

Good link. It will be ignored by those who accuse us of calling them anti-Semitic when they post fair criticism of Israel. Hell, I've posted fair criticism of Israel's government, Netanyahu, judiciary, IDF, settlers and Ultra Orthodox Haradim and I'm the LAST person (except maybe for one other NT member) who would ever be anti-Semitic.

 
 
Buzz of the Orient
5.1.17  Buzz of the Orient  replied to  Krishna @5.1.15    5 months ago

(Author called off topic) Telo

 
 
Buzz of the Orient
5.1.18  Buzz of the Orient  replied to  A. Macarthur @5.1.2    5 months ago

Forgetting for a moment who Sharansky is, do you disagree with his definition of anti-Semitism, because it's not the author but the definition that is important.  The definition is echoed to an extent in the Ottawa Protocol.  Do you disagree with the definition of anti-Semitism as defined in the Ottawa protocol? If you do, disagree with them, then please indicate WHY you disagree, because that will be quite revealing, especially to me.

 
 
Buzz of the Orient
5.1.19  Buzz of the Orient  replied to  Cerenkov @5.1.3    5 months ago

(Author called off topic)

 
 
Spikegary
5.1.20  Spikegary  replied to  Buzz of the Orient @5.1.19    5 months ago

BTW, based on news I'm hearing, there will be an election in Ontario shortly and the tide is turning, the NDP is gaining sunbstantial ground that the Liberals are losing.  A portent of things to come?

 
 
A. Macarthur
5.1.22  A. Macarthur  replied to  Cerenkov @5.1.10    5 months ago
Apparently, we should just discount any of these allegations from Gaza since Hamas is a state sponsor of terrorism. That's how it works, right?

Trumpians are the first and most consistent to denigrate legitimate allegations of racism by referring to such allegations as "playing the race card." Ditto on those who Trumpians see as being "politically correct."

But when their racist, xenophobic, misogynistic Great White Hope, "Jess Willard Trump," moves an embassy, not for strategic, security-based reasons, but to feed his base by doing what the Black man formerly in the White House, didn't do, suddenly, any/all who criticize the move … are "anti-semitic!"

Remind us all of this so-called "anti-semitism" the next time Trump tells us, that among the Neo-Nazis who marched in Charlottesville, are some "FINE PEOPLE," and, that those who confronted them with his chicken-shit "moral equivalency" cop out!

Where anti-semitism allegations fit, they should be leveled unequivocally. But when the Sharanskys and Adelsons, $30 million and the GOP get together to pour gasoline on a fire that has burned eternally, IT'S FOR A POLITICAL SHOW … and NOT FOR AN ATTEMPT TO BRING PEACE.

Don't tell a kid who was raised in a Jewish home, who is married to a women whose father (who, as a child), escaped, with his family,  from Lutz, Poland, as the Nazis were approaching … about "anti-semitism!"

 
 
Sparty On
5.1.23  Sparty On  replied to  A. Macarthur @5.1.22    5 months ago
Trumpians are the first and most consistent to denigrate legitimate allegations of racism by referring to such allegations as "playing the race card

BS!

Anyone, who supports the Palestinians in this matter gives tacit support to Hamas and therefore support their 100% anti-Semitic charter.

Don't know many conservatives who feel that way but it appears many liberals do.

Its unbelievable really the level of sanctimonious BS you hear from that group of liberals on this topic.

 
 
A. Macarthur
5.1.24  A. Macarthur  replied to  Sparty On @5.1.23    5 months ago

Anyone, who supports the Palestinians in this matter gives tacit support to Hamas and therefore support their 100% anti-Semitic charter.

I said nothing about supporting Palestinians and was quite clear about what I did say! If you can't cite EXACTLY what I said and address any/all of it, don't infer and mischaracterize my comment.

 
 
A. Macarthur
5.1.25  A. Macarthur  replied to  Buzz of the Orient @5.1.18    5 months ago

Forgetting for a moment who Sharansky is, do you disagree with his definition of anti-Semitism, 

There are many overt and covert manifestations of anti-semitism, ethnocentrism and all forms of hatred; I have no problem with Sharansky's characterization. 

I have a number of problems with the selectivity and hypocrisy of Trump (as I clearly posted earlier).

It is virtually inherent to all organized religions to, not only deify their beliefs as if God imbued them directly, and, apotheosize their institutions, this, so as to try to lower the viability of all others.

The best case scenario of organized religion historically, is "tolerance" of others as opposed to acceptance of others as equals; the worst case is fanatical extremism and terrorism … and … all the bullshit in between … coercion, guilt-tripping and political-religious unholy-alliance marriages of self-serving convenience!

That there are such phenomena as "holy wars" paints the picture.

And now, Buzz and anyone else who cares to respond … answer this:

WHAT ACTS OF CHARITY, HUMAN KINDNESS AND LOVE CANNOT BE EXTENDED IN THE TOTAL ABSENCE OF ORGANIZED RELIGION … WITHOUT ALL OF ITS DOWNSIDES?

 
 
Sparty On
5.1.26  Sparty On  replied to  A. Macarthur @5.1.24    5 months ago

Nah, you only inferred it with your comment.    Otherwise, what did you mean?

Mac, perhaps you should work back towards the being nice manta you speak of in another thread.     Unless of course you meant being nice to only those of like mind with you.    Which is to say, what’s the point?    

Being nice to people you agree with is easy.    Right?

 
 
Buzz of the Orient
5.1.27  Buzz of the Orient  replied to  Spikegary @5.1.20    5 months ago

A number of years ago the NDP (New Democratic Party - a socialist party that is Canada's third largest political party) DID win a majority to rule the Province of Ontario.  At that time it was headed by Bob Rae, a highly respected Rhodes Scholar, whom I was acquainted with at the time.  It was, in a more conservative province, considered by many to be a horror beyond words to express, so I'm not so sure it will happen again very soon.

This part was off topic/no value and removed. PRF

 
 
Buzz of the Orient
5.1.28  Buzz of the Orient  replied to  A. Macarthur @5.1.25    5 months ago

Are you expecting a list?  Making such a list is bound to leave out some that should also be included. The only answer is to say that such virtues should be practised by ALL humanity, not just those who adhere to faiths, but also those who don't.

...and this part as well. Off topic/no value. PRF

 
 
Buzz of the Orient
5.1.29  Buzz of the Orient  replied to  A. Macarthur @5.1.22    5 months ago

Are you as critical about Iran, and about Qatar and other oil-rich Arab nations funding Hamas to enable them to attack Israel as you are about what Sheldon Adelson donates to Israel?  During my lifetime I have supported Israel financially with many thousands of dollars, purchased a 1000-tree forest in Israel to memorialize my father, raised hundreds of thousands of dollars as Director of Development for Laniado Hospital in Netanya - so how do you feel about MY support of Israel - perhaps at least a percentage of the derision you have for Adelson?  And do you feel Sharansky's definition of anti-Semitism was not his business to draft?

...and this part. Off topic/no value. PRF

 
 
Krishna
5.2  Krishna  replied to  A. Macarthur @5    5 months ago

On Monday, Ivanka Trump, Jared Kushner and other leading lights of the Trumpist right gathered in Israel to celebrate the relocation of the American Embassy to Jerusalem, a gesture widely seen as a slap in the face to Palestinians who envision East Jerusalem as their future capital.

The way it was handled by the Trump administration was incredibly stupid. And in more ways than one.

That being said, the Palestinians would have us believe that Jerusalem being Israel's capital must mean that it can't be the capital of a future Palestinian state as well-- but it could be.

The Jews could have West Jerusalem as their capital, and Easy Jerusalem could be the capital of a future Palestinian state. (These are the newer and larger residential and commercial areas-- for the most part they have no religious significance).

The third part is the tiny "Old City". That's were most of the the major Holy Sites are. That might possibly be the only sticking point, but Israelis I've spoken to insist a fair solution could be found. (Although of course none of this could happen with the current Palestinian and and Israeli leaders now in place).

 
 
Skrekk
5.2.1  Skrekk  replied to  Krishna @5.2    5 months ago
That being said, the Palestinians would have us believe that Jerusalem being Israel's capital must mean that it can't be the capital of a future Palestinian state as well-- but it could be.

Maybe.   But what it represents is the very heavy thumb of the US on the scale in Israel's favor.    No wonder none of our allies support what Trump did.    In fact almost all the countries in the world oppose it.

 
 
Split Personality
5.2.2  Split Personality  replied to  Krishna @5.2    5 months ago
The way it was handled by the Trump administration was incredibly stupid. And in more ways than one.

Strateegery.......?

The Jerusalem Embassy Act of 1995 called for a new embassy to be built in West Jerusalem by 1999. They picked out a piece of property in West Jerusalem, Taipiot.

It never happened as each POTUS signed a 6 month waiver with the intention of not increasing tensions in the area.

However in 2004 Congress quietly appropriated construction of a huge new Consulate on Rehov David Flusser (14) on the edge on "no mans land between East & West Jerusalem.

Funding was continued and approved by Obama, but when the building was finished in 2010,  it did in fact become dedicated as the new 'supersized' US Consulate. 

Again, Obama had the power to declare the building an embassy but like Bush and Clinton, kicked the can down the road. 

This week, the "new " embassy in Jerusalem finally opened, almost 8 years late.  The Consulate moves back to the crowded Agron road neighborhood where it was years ago.

We saved a fortune by not building a new embassy,  because we had already built it in anticipation - smack dab in the middle of Jerusalem - eight years ago.

Oh and the old embassy in Tel Aviv? Not much changed, its an Embassy Branch office now.

Presumably the Ambassador gets to move to Jerusalem and kick the Consul General out of his digs... https://jru.usconsulate.gov/our-relationship/policy-history/u-s-consul-generals-residence/

but that's just conjecture.

 
 
Texan1211
5.2.3  Texan1211  replied to  Skrekk @5.2.1    5 months ago

So if every other country in the world supports NOT letting one nation pick its own capital, then that is what is right?????????

 
 
Krishna
5.2.4  Krishna  replied to  Skrekk @5.2.1    5 months ago
Maybe.   But what it represents is the very heavy thumb of the US on the scale in Israel's favor. 
I totally agree-- the way Trump did it, and perhaps even more importasntly the timing was really stupid. 
  No wonder none of our allies support what Trump did.    In fact almost all the countries in the world oppose it.

Probably most people here are unaware of the history. A Palestinian state was almost created when Israel was. 

But on the eve on independence, several Arab countries attacked Israel in an attempt to "push the Jews into the sea". Many Arabs in the area voluntarily left, being promised that after the Jews were exterminated, they could return to a totally judenfrei area!

When there was finally a ceasefire, it became clear that the Jews were not amused by this idea-- and successfully fought to survive. So Israel was created

But the Jordanian army , while driven back from Israel, remained in an area that was supposed to be part of the new "Palestine" (the "West Bank"). The Jordanians refused to leave. They refused to turn it over to create a new country (to be called "Palestine"). Which is why no Palestine was ever created. created. (There was a similar situation in Gaza-- that was supposed to become the other part of a "Palestine"-- but the Egyptias occupied that).

But here's the reason I bring this up-- when Jordan illegally occupied the West Bank after the war-- the entire world opposed it!

Not just most countries-- but the entire world! (With the sole exception of Britain). Then Jordan changed the status from "occupied" to actually annexing the West Bank as part of Jordan! Despite opposition from the world, Jordan steadfastly refused to leave, and Jordan refused to let a Palestinian state be formed.

 
 
Krishna
5.2.5  Krishna  replied to  Skrekk @5.2.1    5 months ago
No wonder none of our allies support what Trump did.    In fact almost all the countries in the world oppose it.

Well, I am against what Trump did as well-- or more accurately the way he did it. Stupid!

But the fact that most of the world opposes something doesn't mean much in reality. Are you aware of the fact that Turkey illegally invaded a soverign country-- and took control of it? (Cyprus). And that not a question of only allies opposing it-- nor of "most countries":

The Cyprus dispute, also known as the Cyprus conflict, Cyprus issue or Cyprus problem, is the ongoing issue of Turkish military invasion and occupation of the northern third of the island since 1974.

Although the Republic of Cyprus is recognized as the sole legitimate state—sovereign over all the island—the north is under the de facto administration of the self-declared Turkish Republic of Northern Cyprus, which is guarded by Turkish Armed Forces.

 Only Turkey recognizes the Turkish Republic of Northern Cyprus, while there is broad recognition that the ongoing military presence constitutes occupation of territories that belong to the Republic of Cyprus.

According to the European Court of Human Rights, the Turkish Republic of Northern Cyprus should be considered a puppet state under effective Turkish control.[2][3]

The entire world (except for Turkey itself) opposes this. But in reality-- so what? Its meaningless in terms of practical matters....

 
 
Buzz of the Orient
5.2.6  Buzz of the Orient  replied to  Krishna @5.2    5 months ago
"The way it was handled by the Trump administration was incredibly stupid. And in more ways than one."

Would you care to expand on that, and tell us the more ways than one in which it was incredibly stupid?  I ask this question not because I disagree with your statement, it's just because I'm interested and would like to know in what ways it was incredibly stupid. Please educate us with it.

 
 
Krishna
5.2.7  Krishna  replied to  Buzz of the Orient @5.2.6    5 months ago
Would you care to expand on that, and tell us the more ways than one in which it was incredibly stupid?  I ask this question not because I disagree with your statement, it's just because I'm interested and would like to know in what ways it was incredibly stupid. Please educate us with it.

I never thought you'd ask! :-)

For starters:

1. The timing. 

Reading the news, people could easily get the erroneous impress that the demonstrations in Gaza began because o fthe Embassy move. But the actual fact is that not why they happened!

They were scheduled to take place anyway!!! So knowing that, it was really stupid to add fuel to the fire by moving the embassy at the same time. The demonstrations were going to happen anyway, for other reasons. And they definitely would have been more violennt than usual, for reasons other than the Embassy move. . So do  more to further provoke Hamas at the time was incredibly stupid.

(Well, unless You wanted to have a major news story to distract from the increasingly damaging recent news recently coming out of the Stormy Daniels brouhaha...Hmmmm...)

2. If you're not aware of the type clergymen Trump chose to speak-- and what their extremely cockamamie views were-- google. Read a few stories. Incredibly stupid!!!

(There's a lot of information about all I've said here that I don't have time-- or the inclination to mention. If anyone is actually interested, google some of these things-- I've given you a start---you might be surprised at what you find).

 
 
Krishna
5.2.8  Krishna  replied to  Skrekk @5.2.1    5 months ago
No wonder none of our allies support what Trump did

Related: Guatemala Moves It Israeli Embassy To Jerusalem

 
 
Krishna
5.2.9  Krishna  replied to  Skrekk @5.2.1    5 months ago
No wonder none of our allies support what Trump did.

More: Other countries including Paraguay and Romania are considering the move as well

(Although I have to admit I'm not sure if those two are considered actual allies...I believe we have good relations with them though).

 
 
Krishna
5.2.10  Krishna  replied to  Skrekk @5.2.1    5 months ago
In fact almost all the countries in the world oppose it.

When it comes to pissing off the Arab world, some countries are afraid to express their views-- for fear of very violent retribution. My guess is that quite a few others would like to but have the very realistic fear of violent retribution.

 
 
Skrekk
5.2.11  Skrekk  replied to  Krishna @5.2.10    5 months ago
When it comes to pissing off the Arab world, some countries are afraid to express their views-- for fear of very violent retribution.

That's a fairly easy thing to assess since there have been several UN General Assembly votes regarding the status of Jerusalem.   It's pretty easy to see which countries side with the EU on this issue and which side with the US and Israel.    Moreover the small handful of countries which do side with the US on this tend to be the ones which can't risk alienating the US.

 
 
Buzz of the Orient
5.2.12  Buzz of the Orient  replied to  Krishna @5.2.10    5 months ago

I think most are afraid of pissing them off because they need their oil. 

 
 
Greg Jones
6  Greg Jones    5 months ago

The "Palestinians" problems are of their own making. When have they ever sued for a negotiated settlement. Putting their own citizens in harms way has not worked.

 
 
Krishna
6.1  Krishna  replied to  Greg Jones @6    5 months ago
Putting their own citizens in harms way has not worked.

Well, in one sense its been effective-- by deliberately seeking deaths of their own people, they have convinced much of the world that they are innocent victims....

(Of course it hasn't worked to get them a Palestinian state, but that's not their top priority anyway-- they could've already had that on more than one occasion.  Their top priority is the destruction of Israel. Well, I guess in that regard it hasn't worked-- but of course they foolishly keep trying).

 
 
Tacos!
7  Tacos!    5 months ago

I've managed to not get shot in my life. One of my "secret tricks" is that I have never run up to a country's border, attached a Molotov cocktail to a balloon, and floated it into their territory. Believe it or not, this works.

 
 
Cerenkov
7.1  Cerenkov  replied to  Tacos! @7    5 months ago

Have you patented this novel approach?

 
 
Krishna
7.2  Krishna  replied to  Tacos! @7    5 months ago
I've managed to not get shot in my life. One of my "secret tricks" is that I have never run up to a country's border, attached a Molotov cocktail to a balloon, and floated it into their territory. Believe it or not, this works.

My guess is that you never fired missiles at nearby civilian areas either...???

 
 
Tacos!
7.2.1  Tacos!  replied to  Krishna @7.2    5 months ago
My guess is that you never fired missiles at nearby civilian areas either...???

Well, I don't like to brag, and I didn't want to make it seem more complicated than it is.

 
 
Krishna
7.2.2  Krishna  replied to  Tacos! @7.2.1    5 months ago
Well, I don't like to brag, and I didn't want to make it seem more complicated than it is.

LOL! laughing dude

 
 
Buzz of the Orient
8  Buzz of the Orient    5 months ago

Looking for more deaths?  Just open the doors, take down the fence and welcome Hamas into Israel - you ain't seen nuthin' yet.

Then maybe the media will see that the Israelis will be the "underdog" and they will take Israel's side in the conflict, because maybe Israel will just do it all for show just like the Palestinians - send their kids and elderly and women to meet the Hamas terrorists.  My God, it's all just so damned predictable, such obvious hypocrisy.  So hypocritical that it succeeds in causing so many ignorant fools to fall for it

 
 
Sparty On
8.1  Sparty On  replied to  Buzz of the Orient @8    5 months ago

Yeah, i mean really.   Why wouldn't you welcome and support an organization who has your destruction written right into their charter.

Duh!

 
 
charger 383
8.2  charger 383  replied to  Buzz of the Orient @8    5 months ago

I disagree with you on US money to Israel, but  Israel can deal with attackers any way it wants to.  Hamas has been a problem too long 

 
 
Buzz of the Orient
8.2.1  Buzz of the Orient  replied to  charger 383 @8.2    5 months ago

Okay Charger, at least I know that you are supportive of Israel's survival and existence.  Perhaps you should write to your congressman and tell him/her to stop sharing intelligence with Israel, not to use any of the Israeli military developments that save American soldiers' lives, such as advanced armour, anti-missile systems, drone technology, counter-terrorism techniques, joint exercises to develop superiority, safe storage in the ME for military and medical supplies for American armed forces, etc.  Then there's no need for American dollars, even though (different from any other recipient of American aid) most of those dollars are required to be spent back in the USA.  Isn't that a logical conclusion?

 
 
charger 383
8.2.2  charger 383  replied to  Buzz of the Orient @8.2.1    5 months ago

No, that is not a logical conclusion, Israel already has the money and stuff.   And Israel has gotten a lot before.  So they owe us all of the things you list.

What I don't like is the amount of influence they have inside the US government and the attitude that the US should put Israel's interest ahead of ours and that money can always be found for Israel but not stuff here.  

Israel is a much better country than the problem areas around it and as long as the USA does not get dragged into the mess I don't care how they handle the problem   

 
 
Krishna
8.2.3  Krishna  replied to  charger 383 @8.2    5 months ago
I disagree with you on US money to Israel

That money is military aid-- and it comes with strings attached. Basically, Israel must spend on American made products (Mainly it goes to purchase the most advanced American made fighter planes). So it actually doesn't end up in Israeli hands...but it actually goes to American factories!!! 

If all that aid stopped, those American factories would cut back on overtimes and eventually lay off workers.

 
 
Krishna
8.2.4  Krishna  replied to  Krishna @8.2.3    5 months ago
I disagree with you on US money to Israel

That money is military aid-- and it comes with strings attached. Basically, Israel must spend on American made products (Mainly it goes to purchase the most advanced American made fighter planes). So it actually doesn't end up in Israeli hands...but it actually goes to American factories!!! 

If all that aid stopped, those American factories would cut back on overtimes and eventually lay off workers.

And BTW-- I often wonder why people seem so obsessed with aid to Israel-- after all, its not the largest recipient of aid-- what about the  country that gets over 1 1/2 times the aid Israel does-- how come that's never mentioned here???)

 
 
Buzz of the Orient
8.2.5  Buzz of the Orient  replied to  charger 383 @8.2.2    5 months ago
"What I don't like is the amount of influence they have inside the US government and the attitude that the US should put Israel's interest ahead of ours."

Well, you can't blame Israel for that.  The lawmakers would normally act in accordance with the wishes of those who voted them into power, and as the Gallup Poll indicates, 60-70% of Americans favour Israel. You must certainly be in a minority in thinking that your government puts Israel's interest ahead of America's.  Even providing aid to other countries is considered by your government to have benefits that serve American interests. Lobbyists for Big Oil (which is known to speak for Arab interests) have a lot of influence inside the US government as well, and it seems to me that everyone bows down to CAIR. 

 
 
charger 383
8.2.6  charger 383  replied to  Buzz of the Orient @8.2.5    5 months ago

AIPAC  What other country has such a bold group operating in USA?

 
 
charger 383
8.2.7  charger 383  replied to  Krishna @8.2.4    5 months ago
how come that's never mentioned here???)

you can mention it

 
 
Buzz of the Orient
8.2.8  Buzz of the Orient  replied to  charger 383 @8.2.6    5 months ago

The oil producing Arab states don't need a group, the American oil industry lobbyists speak for them, and they are MUCH more powerful, and I'll bet they have a lot more money to buy Congressional loyalty than AIPAC could possibly have, in case you believe that Congressmen can be "bought".

 
 
Krishna
8.2.9  Krishna  replied to  charger 383 @8.2.7    5 months ago
you can mention it

OK I will-- its Afghanistan.

They get at least 1 1/2X as much U.S. aid as Israel.

The difference?

Well, among other things we train their soldiers. (While Israel often helps train out soldiers in their areas of expertise). And of course Israel has aided the U,S. in our fight against ISIS more than probably any other ally. (And in the past they've done numerous other things to help us.....They even destroyed Saddam's reactor when no other country had the cojones to do it...)

Every so often Afghani soldiers deliberately shoot and murder U.S. soldiers....

But, like I said...no one here complains about our pouring money going to Afghanistan-- and its considerably more than we our aid to Israel.

 
 
Krishna
8.2.10  Krishna  replied to  charger 383 @8.2.6    5 months ago
What other country has such a bold group operating in USA?

Russia!

(Heck, they even had their representatives in a meeting with the U.S. president where other Americans were not allowed in the room. And they deliberately hacked our election). 

 
 
charger 383
8.2.11  charger 383  replied to  Krishna @8.2.9    5 months ago

And I think too much money goes there.  And when that topic is brought up, I have complained about it

 
 
charger 383
8.2.12  charger 383  replied to  Krishna @8.2.10    5 months ago

Russia's influence is small compared to Israel's. 

Do any US Representatives or Senators have dual citizenship in Russia?

 
 
magnoliaave
9  magnoliaave    5 months ago

The bleeding hearts!  Put your bleeding hearts where it counts.  Children being born to stupid parents who take them knowing full well that they could be killed.  There are even some parents in the U.S. who take their kids to a possible violent protest!  Why? 

 
 
Tessylo
9.1  Tessylo  replied to  magnoliaave @9    5 months ago

Did they take them to a Donald Rump rally?

 
 
Krishna
9.2  Krishna  replied to  magnoliaave @9    5 months ago
Children being born to stupid parents who take them knowing full well that they could be killed.  There are even some parents in the U.S. who take their kids to a possible violent protest!

This is not a situation of a possible violent protest-- in fact its a guaranteed violent protest. Sad (And that's what these fucked up parents are hoping for...they know the score...)

 
 
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