Bill Clinton Says He 'Does Not' Owe Monica Lewinsky An Apology

Why are you re-hashing this over 20 year old thingamajig?  Seems pointless.  

50 years from now, when the Clintons are both pushing up daisies, the right wing dingbats will STILL be whining about the blowjob Bill received when he finally gave into the advances of some slut that worked in the White House.

It was one of the major news stories of the day, and by the way, many of the "liberals" on MSNBC and elsewhere were highly critical of Bill Clinton for what he said in this interview. 

Well I'm not one of those liberals.  

'Remember your words the next time you wanna crucify Donald Trump over something which ALLEGEDLY happened when Moses was still up on the mountain.'

Poor, poor, allegedly persecuted crucified Donald Rump

Poor Monica. All she really wanted was a bib with the presidential seal on it. I'm sure Kellyanne Connway has a few extra.

Very controversial interview. 

Bill Clinton seems infected by the Donald Trump disease where one becomes unable to admit wrongdoing. 

One of the Morning Joe commentators went so far as to say this is the end of Bill Clinton as an important political figure in America. 

Yep, Clinton never apologized for any of the sexual assaults against his many victims, even including the rapes of two of them. I think Gennifer was the only one that went willingly. And of course Hillary has never apologized for demonizing the women, and standing by her man since, for political purposes only. That disease of never admitting any fault or wrongdoing has infected both Clintons of decades.

Has trump apologized to his many victims? 

He doesn't owe her an apology.  He doesn't owe her anything.  He's moved on.  Maybe you should too.  

'I bet you think Monica owes Bubba Clinton an apology for not getting her blue dress cleaned after he ejaculated on it.' 

Nope.  

Ms. Knee Pads saved the dress.  Gross

Ms. Knee Pads saved the dress.

This is why I continue to think the affair was a set up, she saved the dress to prove Bill had sex with her and, to use it as blackmail. Smart of her.

'This is why I continue to think the affair was a set up, she saved the dress to prove Bill had sex with her and, to use it as blackmail. Smart of her.'

I've thought that as well.  

Reminds me of a comic sketch from Wanda Sykes - and that dress - and she said something like 'you saved that dress?   Get your nasty ass off my couch!'

Bill's allowing a woman to suck his dick is not 'wrongdoing' to anyone except Hillary.

Bill's allowing a woman to suck his dick is not 'wrongdoing' to anyone except Hillary.

I don't agree with that in terms of his office.  In our culture infidelity is considered a wrong. The president should not intentionally do wrong in the oval office. 

There is also the "me too" issue where he or his position as president took advantage of someone young enough to be his daughter. 

'There is also the "me too" issue where he or his position as president took advantage of someone young enough to be his daughter.'

I don't consider this a 'Me Too' issue at all.  He didn't take advantage of anyone.  Monica went to the White House with her knee pads on.  

Bill Clinton "noticed" Monica Lewinsky. He could have not "noticed" her. Even in 1995 or whenever it was workplace sexual harassment was a thing. Any sexual relationship that could be correlated to a power relationship within the organization could be considered workplace sexual harassment. In other words people can get fired from their jobs for what Clinton did. 

It's not the worst thing in the world, and it doesn't erase all the good he has done and is doing, but it is still objectively a wrong, and especially with the "me too" movement being pushed justifiably by Democrats and liberals, Bill Clinton made a mistake yesterday. He should have apologized to Monica Lewinsky, but his ego wouldn't let him do it. 

That is actually factual from what I have both read and seen. I'm sure she was hurt, but I'm equally certain she had been aware of Bill's proclivities for quite a while before that. Their plan was 16 years in the White House and a bj wasn't really gonna alter that plan.

'And Hillary supported him for doing it. A real womans rights advocate - NOT'

Nope, she forgave him.  

I'm sure you're big on women's rights.  

'She forgave him but did nothing about the victim.'

What was she to do about the 'victim'?   Monica Lewinsky is no 'victim'.  

Monica Lewinsky is no 'victim'.

Before Monica left for her White House internship she told friends she was, "Going to DC to earn her Presidential knee pads". By all accounts, including her own, Lewinsky was determined and intent upon seducing Bill Clinton from the very start and so eventually she succeeded blue dress, cigar and all. To his eternal shame Clinton succumbed to Monica's flirtations but any contention the twenty two year olde Lewinsky was an innocent victim of Bill Clinton's manipulation is an untruth...

'One of the Morning Joe commentators went so far as to say this is the end of Bill Clinton as an important political figure in America.'

I imagine he's okay with that.  

Bill Clinton seems infected by the Donald Trump disease where one becomes unable to admit wrongdoing.

Why should he?  Any apology or admission should go to Hillary, and only Hillary, and since they are still married you have to assume that he did/said the right things for her forgiveness.

Bill's impeachment was for lying under oath during an investigation over something entirely personal that did not affect his job.  But it was again an example of Democratic President with a Republican House spending their entire time just looking for dirt.  Today we have a Republican President with a Republican Congress spending all their time covering their eyes and ears,

Why should he?

Have you read the accounts of women who have been preyed upon by predatory men in positions of power?

This is the attitude that has allowed women to be harassed and raped by predatory men in power.  

Women should not have to learn how to "handle" predators in order to find and keep employment.  

Insight into Jewel's life....

vanityfair

She recounted further tales of harassment from her time as a homeless person: “I’ve never been more propositioned by businessmen in my life. It was almost like they were sharks that could smell blood, like of vulnerability. I’d go back to my car, writing songs, and men would literally come up and proposition me. They would be like, ‘Hey, do you need rent money?’ you know, and things like that. It was pretty wild. I never took anybody up on it, but it was interesting to see this side of men that basically would prey on somebody vulnerable.”

Jewel—who landed her record deal while homeless—said these early experiences helped prepare her for the way she’d be treated as a woman in the music industry. “In the music business, it ended up serving me very well. I learned to keep my energy to myself, where there’s nothing about me that seemed approachable,” she said. “And as men did approach me, I got very good at handling men in a way that sort of didn’t anger them. . . . And at the same time using wit and usually humor to defuse the situation and to inform them, ‘P.S. Not available that way.’ ”

Why should he?

Because she was an intern.

Here in Missouri, our reps were also blaming the interns even as recent as 2015.

politico

Missouri Sen. Claire McCaskill is not happy about reports that lawmakers in her state considered instituting a dress code for interns after a summer of sexual assault allegations.

“Such a recommendation reeks of a desire to avoid holding fully accountable those who would prey upon young women and men seeking to begin honorable careers in public service,” McCaskill said in letters to state Reps. Bill Kidd and Nick King. According to McCaskill’s office they were the two who recommended the dress code.

“Is your recommendation meant to suggest that the ability of adult men and women who have been elected to govern the state of Missouri to control themselves is contingent on the attire of the teenagers and young adults working in their offices? Is your recommendation meant to suggest that if an intern wears suggestive clothing, she or he will share partial responsibility for any potential sexual harassment or assault?” McCaskill asked.

The discussion came about after recommendations to review intern policy were released Monday evening by a task force. The task force itself was a response to two resignations since May.

More recently, Missouri governor Greitens chose to resign while various felonies are being investigated.

nytimes

Eric Greitens was a decorated Navy SEAL who served in Afghanistan and Iraq, the founder of a veterans’ charity in Missouri and a Rhodes scholar. Chiseled and charismatic, he was elected governor of Missouri and seen by his fellow Republicans as a potential superstar in the party, someone with the brains and political instincts to perhaps rise all the way to the White House.

But on Tuesday, Mr. Greitens abruptly resigned, more than four months into a scandal involving a sexual relationship with his former hairdresser and claims that he had taken an explicit photograph of her without her permission. He was also accused by prosecutors of misusing his charity’s donor list for political purposes.

Defiant but somber, Mr. Greitens, who was voted into office in 2016, insisted that he had committed no crimes or “any offense worthy of this treatment.” He described “legal harassment of colleagues, friends and campaign workers” and said “it’s clear that for the forces that oppose us that there is no end in sight.”

“This ordeal has been designed to cause an incredible amount of strain on my family,” Mr. Greitens said. He added: “I cannot allow those forces to continue to cause pain and difficulty to the people that I love.”

The governor’s former hairdresser described an alarming sexual encounter, in which she said that he had taken a photo and threatened to share it if she told anyone about them. All the while, questions began to emerge about whether he had used the veterans’ charity list to help his political campaign in 2016.

Mr. Greitens’s resignation ends the need for an impeachment process. But it is unclear whether his criminal problems are over.  

Have you read the accounts of women who have been preyed upon by predatory men in positions of power?

Yup, and I fully support them.  Do you have any evidence that he did anything he was accused of?  If not, and he denies it, what did you expect him to apologize for?

Women should not have to learn how to "handle" predators in order to find and keep employment.

I completely agree, women  should never be subjected to predatory employers or men in any positions.  However you have no evidence that this is what has occurred.  While it is very tempting to jump on the bandwagon with the me too's, each accusation needs to be looked individually and impartially and THEN  a determination needs to be made.

Because she was an intern.

She was an adult who chose to have consensual sex with him.  He had nothing to apologize to her for.

Here in Missouri, our reps were also blaming the interns even as recent as 2015.

Because interns are known to put guns against their heads forcing the reps to have sex with them?  Blaming anyone for consensual sex between 2 adults is ridiculous.

She was an adult who chose to have consensual sex with him. He has nothing to apologise for.

After all....it was the "Oral Office". 

Do you have any evidence that he did anything he was accused of?

Juanita's testimony, but to date, no woman's testimony of rape or sexual harassment is believed by Bill's supporters.  This attitude is no different than the attitude that most rape victims face from law enforcement and judicial system in the US.  This is probably why most rapes are NOT reported.

After all....it was the "Oral Office".

You sound jealous.

Juanita's testimony, but to date, no woman's testimony of rape or sexual harassment is believed by Bill's supporters.

Or law enforcement since no charges have ever been filed.

You sound jealous.

As a...… shuddddddddddddder……...

Can you imagine the outrage from the right had bill even SUGGESTED pardoning himself? What a shit storm that would have been. But trumpy says he can and the right wing falls right in line.

Are there actually people that thought he had remorse? The only thing Slick Willie cares about is getting his willie wet. 

What's wrong with that?

Sexual harrassment is ok with you?

What does Bill have to apologize for?  It obviously was a consensual relationship.  

Now Hillary on the other hand...

'Now Hillary on the other hand...'  

What the fuck does she have to apologize for Christ's sake?

I don't expect you to understand it.  And I have neither the patience or crayons to explain it to you.

'I don't expect you to understand it.  And I have neither the patience or crayons to explain it to you.'

I didn't expect any explanations from you.  Just your hatred for the Clintons.  Carry on.  

Why do you condone sexual harassment? Are you that partisan?

What a botched interview. 

Bill's ability to think on his feet is lacking...a missed opportunity for him and the MeToo movement.

Bill's ability to think on his feet is lacking..

This is what Bill has done when he and his supporters have carefully framed his message to US citizens.  I remember watching this in real time.

Remember watching it as well...thinking, what a liar!  Regardless of political leanings, no quarter for lying...not ever.

"From those to whom much is given much is expected". Bill Clinton let lots of people down, personally...

He doesn't need to apologize when they "let you do it"...

the accused rape is another issue though 

Bill Clinton is not a rapist or a serial sexual assaulter or child rapist or incestuous piece of shit  like Donald Rump is.  

And you know this how?  He was accused of several sexual assaults and at least one rape that I can recall.  Ignoring that is how you get Weinstein and others getting away with it for so long.  

The monica thing was purely consensual.  Unless you want to add in the power dynamic some women feel put Monica in a position of maybe feeling like she needed to do it or hurt her career.  

'The monica thing was purely consensual.  Unless you want to add in the power dynamic some women feel put Monica in a position of maybe feeling like she needed to do it or hurt her career.'

Yeah, right.  She went to the White House with her knee pads on.  

She went to the White House with her knee pads on.

Why are you so dismissive of Monica as if she was nothing but a 22 year old whore whose purpose in life was to suck Clinton's dick?

Do you feel the same way about Lauer's victims?  

Bill Clinton was a pervert, a predator, and a rapist (I believe Juanita) who has a fan club for reasons that I have never understood.  

vanityfair

Now, at 44, I’m beginning ( just beginning ) to consider the implications of the power differentials that were so vast between a president and a White House intern. I’m beginning to entertain the notion that in such a circumstance the idea of consent might well be rendered moot. (Although power imbalances—and the ability to abuse them—do exist even when the sex has been consensual.)

But it’s also complicated. Very, very complicated. The dictionary definition of “consent”? “To give permission for something to happen.” And yet what did the “something” mean in this instance, given the power dynamics, his position, and my age? Was the “something” just about crossing a line of sexual (and later emotional) intimacy? (An intimacy I wanted—with a 22-year-old’s limited understanding of the consequences.) He was my boss. He was the most powerful man on the planet. He was 27 years my senior, with enough life experience to know better. He was, at the time, at the pinnacle of his career, while I was in my first job out of college. (Note to the trolls, both Democratic and Republican: none of the above excuses me for my responsibility for what happened. I meet Regret every day.)

“This” (sigh) is as far as I’ve gotten in my re-evaluation; I want to be thoughtful. But I know one thing for certain: part of what has allowed me to shift is knowing I’m not alone anymore. And for that I am grateful.

I—we—owe a huge debt of gratitude to the #MeToo and Time’s Up heroines. They are speaking volumes against the pernicious conspiracies of silence that have long protected powerful men when it comes to sexual assault, sexual harassment, and abuse of power.

Thankfully, Time’s Up is addressing the need women have for financial resources to help defray the huge legal costs involved in speaking out. But there is another cost to consider. For many, the Reckoning has also been a   re-triggering . Sadly, what I see with every new allegation, and with every posting of “#MeToo,” is another person who may have to cope with the re-emergence of trauma. My hope is that through Time’s Up (or, perhaps, another organization) we can begin to meet the need for the resources that are required for the kind of trauma therapy vital for survival and recovery. Regrettably, it’s often only the privileged who can afford the time and the money to get the help they deserve.

Through all of this, during the past several months, I have been repeatedly reminded of a powerful Mexican proverb: “They tried to bury us; they didn’t know we were seeds.”

Spring has finally sprung.

'Why are you so dismissive of Monica as if she was nothing but a 22 year old whore whose purpose in life was to suck Clinton's dick?' 

What's it to you whoever I'm dismissive of?  I said nothing of the kind.  That's on you.  

'Do you feel the same way about Lauer's victims?  

Bill Clinton was a pervert, a predator, and a rapist (I believe Juanita) who has a fan club for reasons that I have never understood.'

Nice - putting words in my mouth.  I never said that or indicated anything of the kind.  

Believe what ever you like.  

Whatever.  

Nice - putting words in my mouth.  I never said that or indicated anything of the kind.

Your statement involved Monica and kneepads so those are your words about a 22 year old who was used by a 47 year old POTUS.

If this had been a CEO, a senator, a governor, a supervisor, a Lauer, or a Weinstein would the tone be different?

The 47 year old was the predator.  The 22 year old was the prey.  

Nope - those were your words not mine.

'If this had been a CEO, a senator, a governor, a supervisor, a Lauer, or a Weinstein would the tone be different?'

What does it matter?  

Think what you like.  I'll think what I like.  

I'm not really going to say either way although it does seem consensual to be in the Monica case.  Did she go there looking for it?  I would say no but who knows

The monica thing was purely consensual.

So was the Stormy Daniel incident. She even has said so. 

Conservatives bringing out 'the Clinton horse' again. 

Guess they might as well.  Super bowl champs don't want to go to the White House.  A Royal Couple did not invite Trump to their wedding.  A dying senator doesn't want Trump to attend his impending memorial services.  Manafort might get relieved of his 'ankle bracelets.  Yeah, lets do 'Clinton thing again.'  And while were at it, forget about Stormy and McDougal.  Them GOPERS---Theys just GOPERS.

And Cohen.  He still going to swallow that sword for the Trump?

Hey...the Clintons keep turning up like uninvited guests on the MSM. Of course we will bring up all their faults, sins, and misdeeds every time they pop up. It's a game called Whack-A-Clinton!

What's the MSM?  A news station?  A lot of so called conservatives are mentioning this - did you hear it on Hannity?

No.  The right wing game of "Whack a Clinton" is cover for their real game of "Save The Russians."

Clinton, interviewed on NBC's Today show by correspondent Craig Melvin.

Article seeded by Mr. Russell.

I fail to see how Conservatives brought the "Clinton horse" out again.

I fail to see how Conservatives brought the "Clinton horse" out again.

Was wondering the same thing (?)

I am also curious about this royal couple not inviting the President to their wedding … is there any reason that they would have?  The Obama's were not invited to Prince William and Kate's wedding either …. so this is an issue how?

That's another good question. It seems to some, it is only an issue when it involves someone they don't care for. The double standards some hold can be mind boggling at times.

'The double standards some hold can be mind boggling at times.'

Indeed!

Agreed...  There is no changing it I guess.  I was on Newsvine for most of former President Obama's tenure - the comments were off the charts about the then President, it was disgraceful in my eyes … now those that derided others for their comments about Obama are making the same comments about the current President .. vicious cycle ..

Seems that individuals giving former President Clinton a pass for his past behavior .. are angered that the current President 'appears' to be getting a pass for his past behavior (I fail to see that there is a major difference between the 2 men when it comes to women) … 

I could be wrong!

I was there too. I know what you mean. I don't take part in any of the juvenile name calling. It serves no purpose but to fan the flames. Sadly that is what some wish to do. Wouldn't it be nice if we could all just discuss things like adults??

As for Clinton and Trump and their treatment of women. I agree there isn't much difference if any. Two men with money and power taking every advantage they can. I don't give either of them a pass.

I will say that I wish the women would follow through and seek their justice and not just dissappear.

Wouldn't it be nice if we could all just discuss things like adults??

Now there is a concept : )

It does appear that the women that accused Trump have disappeared, from the media at least .. I have read where there are cases pending, yet when the media does not cover it, it makes me wonder if anything will become of their claims - those that accused Cosby did not seem to let their claims fade from the public eye, yet it still took time to get results …. so there is still hope

'Mainstream media'

Duh

'Manafort might get relieved of his 'ankle bracelets.'

He's been tampering with witnesses and they're considering tossing him into the pokey.  I hope they do!

You know that John Russell posted this article correct?

He denied a relationship  with lewinsky while his  allies, including his wife, were ruining her in the national media calling her a psycho stalker who made the whole thing up. 

His treatment of her was spectacular in it’s cruelty. 

Maybe if he had been assassinated then nobody would care about how many women he cheated on his wife with.  JFK makes Clinton look like a boy scout, but rarely do you ever hear about how flagrant it was.

Wait a darn cotton picking minute.  If JFK made Clinton look like a boy scout---------------then using that analogy----------Trump makes Clinton look like Mother Teresa?

nobody would care about how many women he cheated on his wife with.

Do you believe that JFK would be exempt from the same kind of backlash from the society of today if he were still alive?

If so, why?  Who would be defending JKF using White House interns?

No, I don't think JFK would be exempt if he were alive today.  My point is that the first (staunch) Roman Catholic POTUS was wildly promiscuous, much more so than Bill Clinton, to the extent of sometimes having multiple sexual escapades in the White House on a single day.  Now that it is a known fact, why is his legacy spared in this hyper-sensitive me-too moment?  Sympathy for the dead?

why is his legacy spared in this hyper-sensitive me-too moment?

Who is sparing JFK's legacy and what should be done about?

I will note that my peers were children when JFK was assassinated so he has never been much of a topic of interest in my life.  I don't remember "Camelot" or regarding the Kennedys as royalty or model citizens.

The massive negative over-attention to anything Clinton is nauseating.  If people think that they need to be disparaged on a daily basis, then at least give the Monica saga some relative context for comparison sakes.  I bet some of the women who JFK boned in the White House pool may still be alive.  Maybe they should be probed and evaluated for PTSD too.  Like Monica, they knew the potential ramifications of what they were getting themselves into.

John Kennedy is the first president I really remember, whether he was a "player " or not doesn't really concern me, what he did as president officially does.

Some people hate the Clintons from a conservative republican perspective, and some ( a lesser number I think) hate threm from a far left perspective. I think we see examples of both on this thread. 

Personally I don't hate them at all and voted for both of them. However, I think Bill Clinton was wrong to bring Monica Lewinsky, someone young enough to be his daughter, into the oval office so she could suck his dick and he could create the famous "blue dress" evidence.  Do that shit on your own time and in some other place. 

And he did take advantage of the situation and he should apologize to her , given the "me too" atmosphere that currently exists. 

The massive negative over-attention to anything Clinton is nauseating.

When the Clintons exit the national political stage, I suspect it will end as headline material.  Bill's legacy will probably mirror that of Reagan with the same type of supporters and detractors until they become just footnotes in world history and more relevant people take their place.

However, I cannot fathom over-attention to the issues of sexual harassment, sexual predation, and rape that have been part of this country's culture since its inception.

As a woman, I am relieved that women have finally gained enough power to speak out against predators and sexual/physical abuse.  At least 1 in 5 women in the US has been raped.  Domestic abuse is epidemic according to the FBI.

I am hopeful that someday before I die that the mindset of "she asked for it" will be socially unacceptable.  

Like Monica, they knew the potential ramifications of what they were getting themselves into.

So you really believe that the 22 year old "knew" that Clinton just wanted a sex toy and she wanted to be Clinton's sex toy?

How about the mindset of a 47 year old man who views a 22 year old as nothing but a sex toy to use like a prostitute?

While your comments on rape in a supposedly civilized society like ours are both poignant and true, using the word “rape” in a discussion about Monica Lewinski is extremely unfair, and a slap in the face to rape victims everywhere. It just exhibits the depths that some will go to stab a Clinton in the back. Was Bill Clinton wrong to allow himself to be in that situation with Monica? Was Monica wrong to allow herself to be in that situation with Bill Clinton? Yes and yes. Leave it at that.

word “rape” in a discussion about Monica Lewinski is extremely unfair,

Trying to control the discussion and deflect from Bill Clinton being a sexual predator who has raped, harassed, and exposed himself to women is unacceptable and unfair to ALL women who have to deal with sexual predators because sexual predators are defended on any level.

'The massive negative over-attention to anything Clinton is nauseating'

It's quite tiresome as well.  

How about the mindset of a 47 year old man who views a 22 year old as nothing but a sex toy to use like a prostitute?

Your bias is so naked that I wouldn't be surprised if Perrie removed it for a ToS porn violation.  I'm not trying to control anything here - your comments about Bill Clinton supposedly being a rapist/harasser/expositionist to women not named Monica Lewinski is obviously not the topic of this seed.

Well I hope your surprised because it's still here.   I'm sure you've read her words wrong whether purposely or not

Apparently the metaphor was too deep for you.

I sure do.

'John Kennedy is the first president I really remember, whether he was a "player " or not doesn't really concern me, what he did as president officially does.'

I feel the same way and I believe this applies to President Clinton as well.  

Mags is back!!!!!!  I missed you.  

Saying it was the victim's fault of a sexual predator

E.A  Are you Saying Clinton was a Victim from a Predator following wherever he went looking for a " Bit"?

Your bias

is 100% in support of women and not predators.

cnn

A president of the United States pursued a sexual relationship with a White House intern. He was 49, she was 22. When confronted with the details of the relationship, Clinton lied about it.

There's   zero   in those three sentences that anyone -- and I mean anyone -- can dispute.

We, as a society, never really dealt with those facts because almost instantly Monica Lewinsky the person -- a 22-year-old INTERN -- disappeared, and Monica Lewinsky the political football appeared.

....the #MeToo movement has forced a rethinking of the dynamics between powerful men and women who work for or with them. What we once wrote off to "boys being boys" or accepted as an unsavory but inevitable element of our society is now being understood for what it is: An abuse of power that calls into question the very idea of "consent" itself.

That re-examination should not preclude Bill Clinton. We owe Monica Lewinsky that.

Calling Monica Lewinsky a victim is all we need to know about your beliefs.  My suspicions are that you wouldn’t be so supportive of Anita Hill.

Why don’t you extend your feminist tendencies to Bill Clinton’s wife?

What do you mean by "feminist tendencies"?

Why don’t you extend your feminist tendencies to Bill Clinton’s wife?

It does when it come to compassion.  I worked with a young woman who had interned in the Arkansas governor's mansion in the early 90s.  This woman told me that Hillary was hopelessly in love in Bill and turned a blind eye to his perpetual cheating. 

Hillary was living a life of denial.  I view her as no different than any other abused woman who defends her abuser.  Hillary's political career might have benefited from professional self-esteem counseling and a divorce.

'My suspicions are that you wouldn’t be so supportive of Anita Hill.'

I wouldn't be one bit surprised either.  Did you hear about Thomas's crazy bitch wife Ginny calling Anita Hill and asking her to apologize to her token Supreme Court justice husband?

'It does when it come to compassion.  I worked with a young woman who had interned in the Arkansas governor's mansion in the early 90s.  This woman told me that Hillary was hopelessly in love in Bill and turned a blind eye to his perpetual cheating.  Hillary was living a life of denial.  I view her as no different than any other abused woman who defends her abuser.  Hillary's political career might have benefited from professional self-esteem counseling and a divorce.'

Sounds like a he said, she said kind of deal.  What's wrong with Hillary being in love with Bill?

Sounds like you have no compassion for her whatsoever.  

Sounds like she has forgiven him and wanted to keep their marriage together.

Now 20 some years later folks just keep dredging up this topic.

Let it go people, let it go!!!!!!

oh please...she turned a blind eye because she had political and social ambitions and with Bill her way up would be an easier climb.

You tend towards giving women the benefit of the doubt in all matters of alleged abuse. That is a particularly sore spot for me, as I have lived through a marriage that failed because my spouse was flagrantly cheating on me. She ended up packing up the dog and her boyfriend and leaving town, after dropping our kids off with me. By the time I finally tracked her down on the other side of the country to serve her with divorce papers, she was pregnant (which she ended up terminating), and she voluntarily surrendered full custody of both our kids to me. The judge was very much against granting her request, because I am not a woman. The judge (she) did eventually go along with it, but it was like pulling teeth to get her to do it.

That is a particularly sore spot for me, as I have lived

because I was raped by a 46 year old sexual predator  as a teenager.  I have been pursued and harassed by sexual predators until I reached 50.

because my 2 year old daughter was molested by a teenaged sexual predator just beginning his sexual assaults on others.  The predator was wholeheartedly defended by his mother.  I had my daughter examined at the military hospital.  The doctor tested her for VD, but wouldn't certify that she had been sexually molested.  

because the grade school principal found my 9 year old daughter "provocative".

because a 28 year old married man was wanting to date my 12 year old daughter.

My best friend was raped by her father-in-law.  Of course, she could not report it because few people in our Arkansan community would have believed her.  Of the ones who did believe, most would have justified the rape by claiming she "asked for it" in some way.

My best friend's sister was molested by their grandfather when she was in grade school.

My husband's aunt was in her mid-80s when she told me about being raped by her father when she was a preteen.

A co-worker was raped by one of her husband's friends.  

My daughter (who was valedictorian) had a teacher tell her 6th grade class that "everyone knows that boys are smarter than girls".  

Those of just a few of many dozens of examples of personal examples that involved me, my family, my friends, and my acquaintances in Arkansas.

BTW, my daughter married at 21, divorced at 24 because her husband began pursuing a 16 year old.  She only began dating again over a decade after her divorce because she resented being pursued for her body.

I would have moved half way through that list.  In my experience, it is not representative of most of this country.

because my spouse was flagrantly cheating on me. She ended up packing up the dog and her boyfriend and leaving town, after dropping our kids off with me.

I know women who have done the same.  

The women (that I know) were from dysfunctional homes and physically/verbally abused by their fathers and taught that they were to be submissive to men.  Most had only a high school education, married by the age of 20 and immediately began having children.  Studies have shown that more education and delaying marriage to the late 20s are factors resulting in lasting relationships in today's world.  In my neighborhood, there are 4 couples who have married after graduating high school in the last 4 years.  The girls are all working and going to college.  One of the boys is working as local truck driver.  The rest are probably working in factories or on their parents' farms.  The girls have chosen to delay having children until they at least finish college.

I suppose that there are many other relationship factors that should be considered also.  Our species is not necessarily wired to be monogamous or maternal/paternal.  

In my experience, it is not representative of most of this country.

It is representative of Arkansas....and perhaps the Bible Belt.

The damage done to male and female attitudes and relationships is devastating to everyone involved.

I would have moved half way through that list.

At 19, I married and 18 year old boy because my family insisted that I needed to "settle" down.  He had enlisted in the Marine Corps prior to our marriage.  

He was stationed in CA, then TN and then Hawaii.  It was difficult to adapt to the socially conservative Bible Belt after living in CA and Hawaii.  I had to burn the clothes that I had worn in Hawaii and buy socially acceptable clothing.   Arkansas was "home" and at first it felt good to be back among God's chosen people.  My thinking has evolved drastically since 1984.  However, my children were programmed to be socially conservative thinkers (thanks to my programming) and now I find myself frequently at odds with my younger daughter and totally estranged from my older daughter.  My children are my only family.  I have paid a price that I can barely deal with for my "raising".

In my experience, it is not representative of most of this country.

It is estimated that at least 1 in 5 women in this country is raped.  This is nationwide.  

If you are saying that outside of the Bible Belt, men are raised differently and therefore think differently about females, then shouldn't we be researching how to implement that type of respect throughout the US?

In my experience, it is not representative of most of this country.

........................................

Hi, I hesitated to just jump in here but, I'd agree that the people you have described IMO is not a fair representative of most of the country either.

You stated: and I agree.

The women (that I know) were from dysfunctional homes and physically/verbally abused by their fathers and taught that they were to be submissive to men.

Unfortunately, most likely most the of the men whom you described were also subjected to that same upbringing and they were also "taught" to be what they are. 

......................................

Also IMO: The human species is designed to be a propagating species. In our species men have usually been the initiators (perhaps tied to their physical and subconscience need for "sexual" release.

  focusonthefamily

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However most modern men do not act like animals. If where you live is as bad as you describe I suggest doing as I have in the past to make my life better... relocate. 

Thanks for the opportunity to throw my 2 cents worth in.

have a great day !

I know women who have done the same.

The women (that I know) were from dysfunctional homes and physically/verbally abused by their fathers and taught that they were to be submissive to men.

Not the case with my ex-wife.  She was raised and educated in Catholic schools, had the opportunity to attend college paid for by mom and dad, but squandered her opportunities because she just didn't like education and preferred to be a waitress.  The one time she did try college, she flunked out because she spent most of her time hanging out and cheating on me with a different guy from the one I already spoke of.  Obviously I was crazy in love with her, because I kept wanting her back.  I even remained friends with her for the next 15 years, before it finally sunk in that she is not something that I should welcome into my life.  I often wonder what my life would be like now if I had done the right thing and dumped her before we got pregnant.  I got great kids out of the deal, and I love my life now, and just got married two weeks ago to a woman I would trust with my life.  It's strange the hurdles we go through to get where we end up.

(thanks to my programming)

I am not being facetious I am pointing something out.

IMO: It's too bad that "programing" didn't happen sooner for you.

..........................................................

I was fortunate my "programming" began at a young enough age by 17 I no longer followed my parents instructions. 

I had had it with living with the controlling of me shit and set it up so by 17 1/2 I was working full time, out of their home, still graduated high school and even went on to get some college. 

All three of us kids made the break at an early age to stop the control over us by our parents.

..........................................................

Ironically I took in my mom for the last few years of her life. (she was very ill) However, I did not ever try to "control" her, but her control over me by then was long long gone and she knew it.

She was raised and educated in Catholic schools

I have known very few Catholics, but I will note that the Catholic church is not known for having progressive ideas about female equality or intelligence.  From a bystander's perspective, I would consider a Catholic education to be a detrimental factor in shaping your wife's personality.

Monogamy is forced upon our species us for all kinds of reasons.  Today we have DNA testing that has proven that our species is not nearly as monogamous as we pretend to be.  I believe it would be beneficial if we actually learned and dealt with who we really are instead of pretending or even worse, being forced to live a lie.

My current husband  married the same woman 3 times because he "loved" her.  The reality is that he was 25 and she was 17.  He needed someone he could control and she seemed controllable.  Of course, this did not ever work for either of them.  They were both a victim of their social and economic class.  Their daughter has paid a very steep price and her boys' fascination with guns and violence does not bode well for their future.

My husband was a Vietnam vet which contributes to his personality, but I would venture a guess to say that it was his social and economic class that shaped the majority of his personality.

This is not Arkansas.  I now live in southwest Missouri and a world apart in social interaction.  People in southwest Missouri are far less socially welcoming, hostile to strangers and ruder overall than where I was raised in Benton Country Arkansas.  However, the society of southwest Missouri mirrors the one I encountered in Madison County Arkansas in the 70s.  Madison County was among the poorest in Arkansas.

I was raised on a farm and live in farm country.  I am surrounded mostly by fields with either crops or cattle.   I am an introvert who is fortunate enough to be able to make ends meet financially without having to interact with many people these days.  

I waded into discussion forums on the internet in order to gain a better understanding of the forces that motivate people to harm themselves and others.  I have come away with a better understanding of the society that shaped my thinking. 

Also IMO: The human species is designed to be a propagating species. In our species men have usually been the initiators (perhaps tied to their physical and subconscience need for "sexual" release.

I do not read articles from "Focus on the Family" unless it is to reference how religious propaganda contributes to abuse of women in US society.

There is a series of lectures on Human Sexual Behavior that I found interesting and enlightening.

Unfortunately, most likely most the of the men whom you described were also subjected to that same upbringing and they were also "taught" to be what they are.

I agree.  We are a product of our society and our upbringing.  This is why abuse is a common trait in some families.  We repeat what we have learned.  Some people even abuse others and call it "love" because they have been taught that abuse is love.  

There are genetic aspects that have some influence on our lives, but it is our ability or, even inability, to adapt to the society we were born in, that is a critical factor of whether we will survive by hanging on by our fingertips or thrive by finding the path that bring us joy and contentment in life.

IMO: It's too bad that "programing" didn't happen sooner for you.

I agree.  I am a product of my upbringing and society.

I wandered onto Newsvine in 2009 via an MSN or MSNBC article.  It changed my life.  I quit defending my views and began re-thinking them.  The more I examined why I believed what I did, the more I realized that I needed to expand my education.  I quit school at 17, earned a GED, took some computer accounting classes in TN, and then several negotiation, communication and team building classes while employed at Wal-Mart corporate.

I followed some friends from Newsvine to here. 

I have many projects that I should be doing instead of being on the internet today.   It is extremely hot and humid.  We have been experiencing July weather since the beginning of May so I am not particularly motivated to do the mulching that I should be doing today.  LOL!

I do not read articles from "Focus on the Family"

I dont either that was the first link I saw that expanded on the point I was making. 

We repeat what we have learned.

Yep usually, Until we learn different.  

I used to argue with my mom, she always had a way to do everything, her way, the right way, the only acceptable way. It was so blatant it was easy to see she was wrong. There usually is more than one way to do most things.

I quickly learned my parents did not know everything even though they sure seemed to believe they did. 

Fortunately I had a much more liberal minded grandmother who understood this is a fluid world and one is better off remaining that way yourself. 

The contrast between the two was eye opening even as a youngster. Thankfully, I chose to emulate good O grandma as much as possible !!

It has worked out well for me. I ended up very financially conservative and quiet liberal socially. 

I wandered onto Newsvine in 2009 via an MSN or MSNBC article.  It changed my life.  I quit defending my views and began re-thinking them.

...................

YOU decided to change. Congratulations !!!

nv was just an opportunity to do so. Congratulations on what I call full maturing..  I was in a co-dependent relationship when I was younger.

When It ended I was fortunate and found a very competent counselor who was of the mind until each person in the relationship was  "a whole fully mature human" people had one co-dependent relationship after another. ...

Made sense to me. So I set my course for full maturity and with many years of much personal responsibility being a priority, I am still not there...lol... I doubt I ever will be, lifes too damn short, Ya gotta live !!  

So anyway, Welcome to maturity, reality is tough sometimes and ya gotta pursue the happiness, but it beats living an illusion of continuing to live in a world that others (who many times were wrong) believed, demonstrated, lived, shared and some times even shoved down upon us before we were old enough to even know we had a choice.

We are our own masters only when WE take the reins. 

Have a good evening

Or it was just a poorly thought out and written metaphor.........

Dear Friend Hal: Congratulations to you and your new bride.

Please accept my most sincere wishes that you both derive all the very best living together can offer.

Enoch.

Technically, when a married man has an affair with a woman who knows he is married, the victim is his wife.

Exactly. She not only knew he was married, and to whom, but, she had planned the entire affair deliberately aimed for him. She was an avidly willing party to the whole thing. She got what she wanted from him, and when the whole thing blew up, they made her the victim. But, she was the instigator and she should have been the one to bear the most blame.

Don't know who Anita Hill is.

Wow.  You publicly admit that and expect to be taken seriously?  

We had a different press back in that day that we don't have anymore and doubtful we ever will again

We had a different press back in that day that we don't have anymore and doubtful we ever will again

Yeah, I know, they should get rid of Breitbart, Rush Limbaugh, FOX News and, all the other Rightwing mudslingers.

That was a stupid comment and beneath you.

That was a stupid comment and beneath you.

(Looking underneath my chair), nope, it wasn't. 

Accidentally flushed your favorite chair again Huh! 

OK OK it was a bad joke but it came on too easy to pass up! 

LOL, yep, something I would say. 

The President of the United States......no. 1most powerful leader in the world has sex in the oval office of the WH and no apology made to her personally?   She never asked for one.  She probably enjoyed the hell out of it.  The King has chosen me today and I want to save blue dress like you do a corsage.  I wonder whose idea it was about the cigar?  Don't put this in your diary, Monique!  She did one better and told a friend. Who could keep that quiet?

Impeached for lying and the good ole boys drank whiskey and wine!  The next day just another day. 

and no apology made to her personally?

Don't think she needed one...

Lewinsky — who once boasted to a pal that she was bringing her “presidential kneepads” to the White House — wrote that her Oval Office affair with the Horndog in Chief was consensual.

nypost

She was all about playing the POTUS skin flute.

I sincerely apologize to all the women I've had consensual affairs with.

My bad.

No reason to apologize, Skrekk. I'm sure that in your case it was the same as in mine, wherein the enjoyment was mutual. 

Why should he apologize to her? The question should be did he THANK her for services rendered?  I'm sure he didn't pay her for it - that would have made her a member of the world's "oldest profession".  In England, the sovereign can appoint a commoner to be a member of the Royal Victorian Order (as King George VI did for Lionel Logue, his speech therapist - see the movie "The King's Speech") for services to the sovereign.  Companies that provide products favoured by the sovereign can say on their publicity "By Appointment to Her Majesty the Queen".  I am permitted to put the initials "Q.C." (Queen's Counsel) after my name because Queen Elizabeth appointed me to be "One of Her Majesty's Counsel Learned in the Law".  Monica should at least be able to put "By Appointment to [a former] President of the United States" on her web site.