News Headline At 9 a.m. - "President Trump Doubles Down On His False Claim That Democrats Are To Blame For Migrant Families Being Separated At The Border"
Whoever thought that the day would arrive when major news organizations would have headlines that openly state that the President of the United States is a liar. This was not an opinion piece , not an editorial, not even part of a political "panel". It was the opening of the 9:00 news hour this morning on CNN.
The Democrats are not responsible for the separation of families at the border, it is a policy implemented by the Trump administration. Trump could stop it immediately, with or without Democratic input.
The bigger issue though in the long run is the insistence on lying on the part of the president. He has lost all credibility, so now even if he says something that is true it will be suspect, because it came out of his mouth.
Fact checkers analyzed Trump's impromptu press conference on the White House lawn from yesterday and found it to be riddled with falsehoods.
Such daily lying by the president is unprecedented and needs to stop. The only way to stop it , certainly, is to remove Trump from office. He should resign today.
Article is LOCKED by author/seeder
Trump is fast becoming the best president in moder hUS history. Not just because of all the accomplishments, but this is further evidenced by the insane hatred of him and those of us who support him by the Trump haters
Trump is fast becoming the best president in moder hUS history.
When a president shits on our allies to embrace murdering dictators, it damages the USA, it doesn't help it.
His next accomplishments will likely make the heads of many on the left literally explode....
His next accomplishment? Sure, his impeachment will be the biggest, ever, most amazing in history the likes of which the world has never seen...
There will be no impeachment and Trump will serve 8 years. You need to change your meds
Leftist hallucinations
Trump Haters heads are spinning over his foreign policy achievements
“Here are some of his accomplishments:
He has succeeded in having North Korea agree (document signed today here) to complete denuclearization. The North Koreans have destroyed their main nuclear testing site. They have given us three hostages without the plane loads of cash the Iranians got. North Korea is considering ending the long war with its southern neighbor. So much has happened with this story, it's close to as big and consequential a historical event as the coming down of the wall in Berlin and the fall of the Soviet Union. We won't know for a while. But for the first time in our lifetimes, there is a genuine negotiation to deal with the nuclear nightmare that the North Koreans have brought the world in the past decades.
The decimation of ISIS. In less than one year, their caliphate dreams have been shattered, their bases of operation destroyed.
The realignment of the Middle East. Most nations are choosing to ally together against Iran, and with us. Even Saudi Arabia is a clear ally, and of *gasp* Israel, too.
Israel is a stronger ally than ever. We have moved our embassy to Jerusalem.
Trump's success in connecting with the premier of China.
His dropping of the TPP deal, and subsequent current individual negotiations with the Pacific countries, such as Japan and South Korea.
His current renegotiation with Canada and Mexico on NAFTA.
His clear connection with Macron of France and the upcoming prime minister of Italy.
His clear words to the G7 this week that America will no longer be the piggy bank to the world.
His clear message to the globalist elites that we will not succumb to their foolish nonsensical wastefulness of the (so-called) Paris Climate Accord.
His pulling out of the disastrous Iran nuclear deal. He is clearly signaling to those in Iran who oppose the mullahs that he will, unlike the ugly American Barack Obama, support them if they take the lead in getting rid of those medieval tyrants. He is forging a potent alliance against them.”
It's up to half a billion now? Wow! Started out at 150 million, then 400, etc... But, as I have proven you wrong on this MANY times already....I will do so again...LOL
.
CLAIM
The Obama administration secretly bribed Iran to release four prisoners in January 2016. See Example( s )
RATING
ORIGIN
In January 2016, the Obama administration successfully negotiated the release of four Americans who had been imprisoned in Iran in exchange for the release of seven Iranians who had been imprisoned in the United States.(A fifth American prisoner was released separately.) At around the same time, the U.S. airlifted the equivalent of USD $400 million in various currencies to Tehran, sparking conspiracy theories about the timing:
House Speaker Paul D. Ryan (R-Wis.) was among those who seized on the timing and cloak-and-dagger delivery method, which was first reported by the Wall Street Journal, saying it proved suspicions that the Obama administration had tried to hide a payment for the four Americans, including Washington Post reporter Jason Rezaian. GOP candidate Donald Trump called it an example of the administration’s foreign policy failures.
“Obama administration sent plane load of cash to #Iran as ransom as part of deal on hostages. Just unreal,” tweeted Sen. Marco Rubio (R-Fla.), a long-standing critic of the Iran talks.
As with other issues that would normally fall by the wayside in a normal daily news cycle, the payout to Iran became prime fodder for yet another election-year debate :
State Department spokesman John Kirby joined Bill Hemmer on “America’s Newsroom” to defend a $400 million cash transfer to Iran during the release of four Iranian-held U.S. hostages.
Kirby said the money had been frozen in a trust fund in the U.S. for decades and it was “their money.”
He asserted that the fact that the transaction occurred during the release of the detained Americans was “coincidental.” Hemmer pressed Kirby, saying that it appears that this cash transfer was kept secret and was effectively a “ransom.”
“It looks bad,” Hemmer said.
However, the $400 million dollar transfer was actually an openly announced one, paid in settlement of a nearly 40-year dispute between Iran and the United States — a settlement that likely saved the United States several billion dollars.
Back in late 1979, after Iranian revolutionaries took 52 Americans hostage at the US Embassy in Tehran, the United States severed diplomatic relations with Iran and froze Iranian assets in America. Among those frozen assets was a $400 million delivery of fighter jets from the U.S. that Iran’s previous government had already paid for.
Although the American hostages were finally released a year later, issues such as the frozen Iranian assets (including that $400 million) were not settled at that time. Instead, an international court based in the Hague, the Iran–United States Claims Tribunal was established to deal with such legal claims. The tribunal process dragged on for years and years without a ruling on the $400 million being issued, and finally, when arbitration process was apparently about to wind up (quite possibly not in American’s favor), the U.S. agreed to pay Iran back the $400 million principal along with $1.3 billion in interest. If the issue had gone to the tribunal for a decision, as was expected, the U.S. could have been on the hook for the full $10 billion in compensation Iran was seeking.
It is true the U.S. agreed to the settlement at the same time it was negotiating a nuclear deal with Iran and for the return of four U.S. citizens who had been detained by Iran. However, the negotiations over these these issues were conducted by completely separate teams in order to avoid any overlap or suggestions of connections between them.
As Vox noted, charges that the U.S. had paid “ ransom ” to Iran for the release of hostages didn’t even make logical sense:
The payment, which sounds really shady out of context, was actually the end of a boring, decades-old international legal case totally unrelated to the hot-button nuclear and prisoner issues.
[T]here was no direct evidence to back up [the ransom] theory. The speculation about timing was just that — speculation.
Iranian negotiators on the prisoner exchange were not the same negotiators involved in the weapons deal settlement. Therefore, they couldn’t make demands of the US team negotiating the weapons deal settlement, which means they couldn’t negotiate a quid pro quo of money for hostage release, the definition of a ransom.
Moreover, the basic logic of it didn’t make any sense. Iran was going to get that money back no matter what through the arbitration process — probably more, if the Obama administration was right. Why would [Iran] release potentially valuable hostages in exchange for money it would have gotten otherwise? Iran would have to be the world’s dumbest hostage taker.
Even though the Obama administration openly announced the settlement in January 2016, it wasn’t until several months later that claims the U.S. had offered a “ransom payment” began to circulate due to spin from some Iranian officials. But Vox also noted that spin wasn’t too credible:
[One cited] piece of evidence for the payment being a ransom is that the Iranians spun it that way.
But of course Iranian officials would spin it as a hostage payment. This makes them look strong to their domestic audience and America look weak. We don’t take political spin from American officials at face value, so we shouldn’t take Iranian spin at face value either — especially when it’s contradicted by independent evidence.
By delivering the payment on the same day as the prisoner release, Iranian officials could claim that they got the money as part of a ransom deal.
But the truth is that the Iranians could have claimed that no matter when the cash was delivered. If the Obama administration had forked over $400 million six months later, those same Iranian defense officials could have lied and said it was part of the prisoner release deal rather than the weapons settlement.
The lie isn’t significantly more credible just because the cash was delivered on the same day. Nor should American media and politicians help validate the Iranian lie by treating Iranian propaganda as actual evidence.
On 18 August 2016, the Obama administration acknowledged that delivery of the $400 million payment due to Iran in settlement of the dispute over payment for military equipment had been held up until officials were sure that American prisoners Iran had agreed to free in a separate deal were safely away:
State Department spokesman John Kirby addressed questions by explaining that the U.S. held on to the $400 million cash payment until American prisoners were on a plane and safely away from Iran to “retain maximum leverage.” Kirby said the arrangement did not in any way constitute a ransom payment, as President Barack Obama’s Republican critics have alleged.
“We deliberately leveraged that moment to finalize these outstanding issues nearly simultaneously,” he said. “With concerns that Iran may renege on the prisoner release, given unnecessary delays regarding persons in Iran who could not be located as well as, to be quite honest, mutual mistrust between Iran and the United States, we of course sought to retain maximum leverage until after American citizens were released. That was our top priority.”
The fact that the money was physically sent to Iran in various currencies rather than simply transferred by wire may seem odd in the context of the United States’ increasingly cashless society, but that was done in order to avoid existing Treasury Department sanctions that banned the use of American currency in transactions with Iran, and international sanctions which at that time kept Iran from accessing the global financial markets (and which were lifted in January 2016).
The holier than thou Christians like to try to insert their own religious beliefs into governing this country today more than I have ever seen in my lifetime. However, today it is the Christians that are speaking out against the use of the Bible verse by Jeff Sessions to separate the children at our border from their parents.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Christians Use The Bible To Fight Over Trump’s Immigration Policy
Pastor Graham is not alone to hold such a view. About 300 Catholic bishops from all over the United States came together on June 13 in Fort Lauderdale to make a political statement against the Trump administration’s immigration policies. The condemnation expanded to include Attorney General Jeff Sessions’ decision to deny asylum seekers at the border. The bishops pointed out that this decision violated both national and international law. The statement concluded that Sessions was forcing asylum seekers to become victims of violence and domestic abuse without any escape.
Religious leaders did not exclusively make the attacks on the immigration policy. The Freedom From Religion Foundation created an official statement on the website denouncing the decision to use the bible to justify any policy decisions. They were further offended that White House Press Secretary Sarah Huckabee Sanders supported the idea when she answered a question about Session’s quote by saying “I can say that it is very biblical to enforce the law.”
Source:
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I for one do not feel it is fair to use a Christian Bible verse to justify applying and enforcing the abuse of children by forcefully taking the children from their parents. The trauma and and mental anguish will have a very detrimental affect on these children for the rest of their lives.
And doing this will also be detrimental to everything our country stands for, and dirty our reputation in the eyes of the world. It is very reminiscent of how Nazi Germany removed the children from their parents to train them to become Nazis at an early age. Those who were too young were sent to Dr. Death to become 'lab rats'.
I always thought that America was better than this, and still do, it's just the heinous garbage now in control of our government that is soiling our country, and using their "Christian" Bible to justify it in the name of God. Once again God's name is being used to justify committing atrocities here in our own country. If this was done in another country, the holier than thou "Christians" would be crying inhumane treatment. But, here in our own country they justify it in God's name.
This last part is my opinion only.
There is nothing in humane about the care being given to these children
they are getting safe shelter with individual beds, good food, medical care, free education. In other words, the best lives they have ever lived. The only finger pointing should be on their parents
I do not care what you and other Republicans here say, as IMHO, none of you represent the majority of the Republican Americans. You are only here at this site to denigrate and demean those who disagree with what YOU think or believe.
I know many Republicans and they are not haters and have varying views far from those expressed here by those who claim to be Republicans. I prefer to believe them before I do any of those where who profess to be Republicans and only spew your hate and derogatory comments at those you deem to be beneath you.
So spew your hateful and derogatory comments all you want, I have no interest in them.
I never asked for your opinion....so why offer it?
And I never cared if you wanted it or not.
The comments are not worth reading.
You are soooo right about that.
Hopefully these vile policies really blow back against the GOP:
Not all Christians in America are Republicans as they would like to try and make people believe. However, Not all Christians who are Republicans are supporters of Trump. The Christians that are against using Bibles to justify the abuse of humanity by our government are from all walks of life, and not just Democrats.
There really are some people in this country who object to using God's name and the Bible to justify injustice. It's just that the Republicans who are rogue Republicans like to try to put the blame on the Democrats for their own wrong doing.
There really are some people in this country who object to using God's name and the Bible to justify injustice.
It's interesting that Trump's efforts to harm refugees are even starting to piss off his evangelical supporters.
It's interesting that Trump's efforts to harm refugees are even starting to piss off his evangelical supporters.
Agreed. They will only go along with so much, but, when they are made to look like seeds of the Devil by the acts of others who use them for their own agenda, they will begin to back away. This time, using the Christian Bible to try and justify that which is unjustifiable, they are pushing back.
And I think we will be seeing more of that in the days ahead as the fact that they being used by this President and his administration.
It would be disastrous for Trump if he did lose even a significant minority of evangelicals but my guess is that whatever discomfort some are feeling now will soon dissipate. Just think of how much Trump-crap they've already swallowed. And in the end most of them will bow to his authoritarianism anyway.
I agree that some will continue to give him their undivided devotion no matter what he does. But, there are also those will no longer support him when they see they are being used, and that their own moral values as Christians can no longer reconcile with the garbage and immoral things Trump and his administration are doing to the detriment of this country and the Christian faith as a whole.
Once the flow starts, no matter how small, the others will follow. The only ones that will remain devoted to Trump are those who are Christians in name only. But, their numbers will not be strong enough to make a difference.
You're way more optimistic on this than I am. I can see why so many Catholics oppose Trump on issues like this, but I've never had illusions about the depths of hypocrisy which evangelicals are capable of. While it's disappointing that more haven't spoken out I think the others will just overlook his Nazi-like behavior on this just like they have on so many other issues. And don't forget that there's a strong tradition of anti-immigrant sentiment in that demographic anyway.....I doubt many of them are bothered (or even aware) that the bible verse which Sessions used to justify the policy is the same one which evangelicals used to justify slavery, Jim Crow, and anti-immigrant laws (at least when those immigrants were Catholic or Asian).
Could be that I am over optimistic, but, I would rather that than to have not faith that our religious foundation in our country has not been totally snookered into buying Trumps lies. While I am not a Christian, I hope that there are still some who still cling to their own moral core.
Whoever thought that the day would arrive when major news organizations would have headlines that openly state that the President of the United States is a liar. This was not an opinion piece , not an editorial, not even part of a political "panel". It was the opening of the 9:00 news hour this morning on CNN.
Whoever would have thought that our “news organizations” would be telling us what to think rather than giving facts and letting us draw our own conclusions? This is propaganda not news. I’m not a Trump fan but he’s not responsible for the consequences that flow from an illegal alien’s decision to enter the country illegally with his child.
What’s drawing people here is the idea that they can sneak across the border and stay here PROTECTED BY DEMOCRATS and their ridiculous sanctuary city policies that make DEMOCRATS willing accomplices in obstructing justice. So Trump’s right from his perspective.
If a burglar (or trespasser) entered my property and brought his child with him, it’s not law enforcement’s fault that he and his child will be separated when he goes to jail. He knew or should have known what would happen so it’s HIS fault for making the decision to break the law with his child in tow. He should be prosecuted for breaking the law and for endangering his child. And if people encourage him to do it and trumpet that they’ll protect him from the law if they can, then they are as guilty as he is.
Liberals want to scream about children being separated from illegal adults who committed a crime of entering this country illegally
FACT #2: Many of these mothers and children did not enter illegally. Many of them deliberately went to official U.S. border crossing and presented themselves to immigration officers requesting asylum, (as is specified under U.S. law).
In the past their children would not be taken away, and their requests would be processed lawfully. But under the Trump administrations recent ruling, they are treated as lawbreakers and their kid are forceably taken away from them.
FACT #2 : Many of these mothers and children did not enter illegally. Many of them deliberately went to official U.S. border crossing and presented themselves to immigration officers requesting asylum, (as is specified under U.S. law).
Yeah, many made bogus claims of asylum (gumming up the system) and many more just snuck across the border. This need some to stop.
Whenever parents are charged with a federal misdemeanor (entry without inspection in this case), or awaiting trial, they are placed in the custody of the U.S. Marshals Service. Children cannot go to jail, so they are transferred to the custody of Health and Human Services’ Office of Refugee Resettlement. . .
The Trump administration may believe that Democrats are responsible for policies that encourage illegal border crossing, but we found no law mandating that children be separated from their parents.
Wow! That is some disingenuous, first-rate bullshit right there. If you prosecute, you DO have to separate them. You just said they couldn't go to jail with their parents.
These self-proclaimed fact checkers never address the part about encouraging border crossing. It's not simply something Trump "believes." It's absolutely 100% true. In fact, I don't even blame just Democrats. The Republicans are very nearly as guilty and it's not a contest you want to be close.
Families were rarely prosecuted under previous administrations.
Exactly! That's the whole problem and it's the root of how past administrations actually encouraged illegal immigration. Lack of prosecution encourages law-breaking. Imagine if you stopped prosecuting rape or murder - good idea? or stupid idea? What would happen? There's probably be more rapes and murders. Doesn't take a genius to figure that out.
And then if you suddenly start enforcing those laws, do the families of the rapists and murderers get to complain about parents being separated from their children? I sure hope not, and there's no reason we should tolerate that whining for people who enter the country illegally. Maybe try not recklessly dragging your kid into a foreign country illegally. These so-called parents are responsible, not Trump.
Typical of this POS to never ever ever take responsibility. It's always someone else's fault but his.
You are right. He blames the bad economic recovery on aJapanese earthquake and tsunami, the Greeks and ATM machines. Targeting conservative groups was done by low level IRS workers. Losing your health insurance and your doctor was not his legislation fault, it was the insurance companies .Shoot he did even know his "Justice" department was running guns to drug cartels.
OOOPS! You didn't mean a real POS did you?
Just highlighting your hypocracy and you just can't stand it can you .
Typical of this POS to never ever ever take responsibility
Exactly how is it Trump's fault that irresponsible adults recklessly and illegally drag children across an international border, creating a situation where they are subject to arrest and separation from those children. Did Donald Trump go to Mexico and encourage them to break the law?
If the cops arrest you for breaking the law, is it their fault for arresting you or is it your fault for breaking the law?
We are on the side of the compassionate surroundings, support, clean beds, activities and counseling that Trump is providing for the illegal children
I like how the Trump regime has described its abduction and internment of refugee children as a form of warfare. That must make those kids feel really safe.
trump claims this is the democrats fault/policy, that's utter Bull Shit ! he says the dems are causing this because they won't fund the Wall.
Wait !!! Mexico is going to pay for the wall, right ???
republicans are in total control of the government, why can't they fix this ??? Shameful !!!
he says the dems are causing this because they won't fund the Wall.
And his base is gobbling up his lies like flies on poop. Trump and his mouth are totally out of control, and America and its people are paying the price. The only ones who believe him anymore is his ignorant base. Even those in his own party are starting to abandon him in order to save their own positions, and reputations as Republicans, as Trump is really making the Republican party a laughing stock.
Hillary Clinton in 2014- detain these children crossing the Boarder and then send them back as soon as possible
Such a flood of lying is not tenable. It is degrading this nation.
And yet Trump’s approval rating among Republicans rises. This is a bad dream for honest democracy.
The internet culture has to bear a lot of blame, I think. People have grown to accept "alternative facts" as a real thing , because they see it so much online. It is called "truthiness". Much of Trump's garbage doesn't even reach the level of truthiness though.
This is a degradation of the standards of this country that should not be tolerated. UnfortunatelyTrump has no conscience or decency, nor do many Republicans, and we may have to depend on the election.
And you're going to lose the next election, because most decent caring people don't like the Dems exploiting the illegal immigrant situation.
Most decent caring Americans don't like a president exploiting a situation like the children of immigrants to gain a political point either.
Comment removed sweeping generalizations [ph]
I wonder why your post has not been deleted yet, especially by "SP", for "generalization". Wait...No I don't.
Maybe because it was flagged at 9:47pm and SP was not on. [ph]
You see, PJ..I am a 51 year old male, retired Navy, married to an Asian woman and currently working in a field that is dedicated to getting those that had previous illnesses back on their feet and back home where they belong.
You say I am not a decent person. I do not get offended easily, and this, because it comes from a liberal, does not offend me either. However, it is expected. Liberals today still scratch their heads as to why they lost the 2016 election and every midterm election since 2010, but continue to think it is ok to demean us, insult us, assault us simply because of our beliefs.
I invite you to continue to do so because what your are doing is guaranteeing yet another Republican landslide this year.
MAGA!!!
And you're going to lose the next election,
Link?
Yea I agree. That is not the only post she has made with the same generalizations, but yet every one of them still stand. You would think that "SP" is hot on these violations, as he is with conservative violations, those posts would have been deleted by now. Alas, here we are, 4 hours later and the posts still stand.
Is anybody surprised?
Maybe because it was flagged at 9:47pm and SP was not on, nor was it flagged by you. [ph]
I cannot speak to the moderation of my comment. That is up to the MODs
This is a bit awkward because I've never argued with you before.
With that said, I cannot imagine anyone who is truly decent supporting this President no matter what his policies are. He is not a good person in any way so it makes zero sense to me that anyone with any moral fortitude could stand behind this President.
All the additional information you provided has very little meaning to me. It doesn't change my opinion.
Skirting the CoC [ph]
Let's see. You claim that he is not a "good person" and no moral person should support him. Are you aware that of those that accused him of sexual assault none are claimed to be after 2010 and most of them are dubious at best . Stormy Daniels was consensual and happened over 10 years ago. The "Access Hollywood" tape was over 15 years ago. Support for him is bad but support for Bill Clinton was good and his actions were more contemporary with his term. The left supported Clinton's wife who not only defended and enabled his action m, actively took part in the denigration and slander of his accusers.
Failure is subjective. I disagree that ripping children away from their mothers is "making America great" or a decent thing to do. I'm pretty sure there's another way to accomplish the objective without being cruel. The President has implemented this policy because he knows his base loves this kind of stuff. That speaks volumes to me that he recognizes his base will get off on cruelty.
You think this man is good for Americans and America? Look around you - we can barely tolerate each other. This man has done nothing to bring the country and Americans together. You think that's winning, I do not.
Yes, I claim without capitulation (along with millions of people in America and around the world) that he is not a good person.
Everything else in your post has no relevance to me so I am not getting pulled into your whataboutism.
Agreed. They seem to have a very clouded view of the many good things it has taken to make America great over all the many years that America has been a country, but, abusing and being cruel to children is not one of them. Quite the contrary, it only instills hate and resentment in those children whose lives have been viciously violated by those who have no moral compass.
No no you said no matter the policy you wish for failure. Do you want the new VA bill to fail? I suppose you would like NK to start firing nukes again. It is a shame that someone would hope for complete failure of their country.
How did you feel about children being separated from their parents during Bush and Obama's years. Trump's policy is the same as theirs. Do you think Obama is decent for ripping children from their parents?
I will refer you to my comments about those issues back when President Bush and President Obama were in Office. I'm not going to go back and play whataboutism. It's a deflection tool when there is no good argument to make. I don't do it to others when I'm making my arguments and I won't engage others any longer when they try it on me.
I do not believe anything that this President does will be good for the country as a whole. Will there be minor wins for specific populations in the country....sure.
Minor -? I am sure your fellow Americans in Hawaii appreciate your support.
Maybe because it was flagged at 9:47pm and SP is not on.
It has nothing to do with "whataboutism" but does show the total hypocrisy of the anti-Trumper Clinton supporters.
I have never supported President Clinton's behavior. Now move on and stop trying to make this about a President who served over 17 years ago. You are trying to frame it as though the opposition to the current President is merely a woman thing. Grabbing pussies is only one of MANY reasons why this President is unpopular and unsupported by the majority of the country.
I have said for some time now that I don't even fault the President for doing all the rotten things he does. I blame his supporters.
Thank you. Ten thumbs up.
Very true. It serves no purpose whatsoever. Simply a defection.
Not me. There is on monitor whom shall go unnamed that definitely plays politics when deciding which comments to delete and call CoC violations. That monitor IMO should be dropped by Perrie.
I was not arguing with you. I was simply making a point.
You say you do not know how someone decent can support this President no matter his policies. If the President continued Obama's policies, in other words, continue down the path of socialism in this country, would you support him? If so, wouldn't that make you an indecent person?
You are right, Perrie. I did not flag the post, simply forgot. My apologies.
How about not coming over the border illegally? You don't do that, your children stay with you.
There were many policies that the former President put in place that I did not support BUT he wasn't vulgar or cruel as this President is.
For instance, I am for changing the immigration policy and thought this was one area that I could support the current President. We need to change how we approach those who come into the country by means other than the legal method. Another area that I support are the security changes on H-1B Visa holders requiring a minimum 3 year background check to be eligible for consideration of an internship in Gov't Agenices (this was long overdue).
But the more I learn about this President's policies the more I realize that he is simply cruel, hateful and racist. I cannot in good conscience support a man with no soul. It would mean that I am lacking in good character that I could turn my cheek and allow the horrifying behavior in order to get a short term win.
Make no mistake, the policies this President puts in place with be terminated under the next "respectable" President.
Those who tie themselves to this cruel man will forever be tainted. I prefer to work hard and get good policies in place that will withstand the test of Presidents and Policymakers to come.
And those policies would be?
Um, have you been watching what is going on with the kids being ripped away from their mothers? How about turning away anyone who is from a shithole country and focusing on getting more people from Norway?
I think I offered one of the policies that I support (H-1B Visa minimum security background requirements).
One day you will have your day of reckoning. I hope you are prepared for it.
For example, people who illegally enter another country are just honest hard-working people with a right to go anywhere they like. Or babies and little kids are being ripped from their mother's arms. In fact, the vast majority of "children" crossing the border illegally are teenagers who aren't even accompanied by someone claiming to be their parents.
I suspect it's the abnormally large size of their amygdalas which caused Trump supporters to vote for a racist, a misogynist, a homophobe, an Islamophobe, a xenophobe and a sociopathic con artist. No ethical person would vote for a person who even exhibited just one of those vile traits, much less a pathological liar who thinks it's good policy to separate refugee children from their families.
Thank you for my word of the day. hahahahaha - I had to look it up.
I should have included a link:
.
Of course this isn't exactly a new problem or one that's unique to America. If anything it's just a common physiologic defect which affects roughly 40% of the human population. Perhaps some day there will be a cure.
Exactly what other ways are there to deal with these people? If you come across illegally, you get sent back. If you came with children, while you are being held in an ADULT detention center, you child will be held in a facility built for and meant for children. When you get deported, you get reunited with your child.
Here is another idea. Liberals seem to be hell bent on allowing illegals to come here and stay here...with their children. How about liberals open up their homes to these illegals, foot the bill for them, and sponsor them until they can take care of themselves? This, by the way, will be a lifelong endeavor.
Oh for heaven sakes. You do realize that you can take that formula and apply it to many "issues" that conservatives want to control, like women's bodies and abortion. They sure do like to rant and rave about it but they don't want to foot the bill unless it's for their mistress. It's an unrealistic solution.
So you are saying that you would not mind seeing American children getting put into an adult penitentiary when mom or dad get arrested for something while the child is with them? How is separating American children when their parents commit a crime any different than separating illegal children when their parents commit the crime of illegal entry into the US?
The most obvious difference is that America is a foreign country to one group of children. Another difference is cultural, and not speaking the language, not understanding the US justice system. The American children most likely have extended family in the country, e.g. grandparents, aunts or uncles.
There are more differences between the two groups then you are acknowledging. It's not the same, Bugsy.
Another sweeping generalization. I don't give a flying crap what you do to your body or your unborn child.
Then maybe liberals need to encourage those that want to come here illegally not to. Win-win...they won't get arrested and they will not be separated from their children.
okay, I'm done conversing with you.
It's not a sweeping generalization because it's a conservative platform issue.
It is? Show us where..
Keep in mind that conservatives, unlike liberals, do not march in lockstep to every idea, or as liberals put it "our feelings".
As I said, it's NOT a sweeping generalization - it's in the gop platform. Please learn what you stand for and against . It will help you when you go around flagging people's comments.
For the record: I've NEVER flagged anyone's comment on this site - EVER and I've been called some pretty horrible names.
The Fifth Amendment: Protecting Human Life (Top)
The Constitution’s guarantee that no one can “be deprived of life, liberty or property” deliberately echoes the Declaration of Independence’s proclamation that “all” are “endowed by their Creator” with the inalienable right to life. Accordingly, we assert the sanctity of human life and affirm that the unborn child has a fundamental right to life which cannot be infringed. We support a human life amendment to the Constitution and legislation to make clear that the Fourteenth Amendment’s protections apply to children before birth.
Nowhere there does it say that conservatives want to control a woman's body, as you so eloquently put it. It simply says that an unborn child should have the same rights as one that was born. You want to scramble an unborn child's brain, that is your business. It will lay on your mind forever, not me.
BTW, by saying "conservatives believe" this is a generalization. If you had said "many" or "some", whatever, you would have been covered. You cut and pasted the GOP platform. Not all republicans are conservatives and vice versa.
If flagged your comment for one reason and one reason only. I was chastised by a moderator for not flagging other comments you made that violated the exact same thing, "generalization", but only making comments about them. You should be proud that your post was the very first one I have ever flagged...probably will be my last. You say you are finished conversing with me, but yet you continue to do so. Why?
Please....lol - you flagged it because you can't form a counter argument. No one is REQUIRED to flag comments. Perrie simply pointed out that if you were going to cry and fuss over the comment not being addressed by a MOD then you should at minimum flag the comment.
Some people can handle criticism and some people can't. It's good to know which camp you sit in.
BTW - it's not a generalization. It's part of the gop platform. I simply put it in terms that represent my interpretation. It's no different then your interpretation " You want to scramble an unborn child's brain".
Where are any liberals encouraging illegal immigration? Under Obama he deported more undocumented immigrants than any previous President and reduced the total number of undocumented immigrants by over 1 million. It's a complete myth that Democrats desire illegal immigration, it's total nonsense. Liberals and Democrats just don't believe that just because you're undocumented that you lose all human rights. They believe is safe fair deportation, immigrant children staying with their parents, and compassionate reviews of requests for asylum. Because liberals and Democrats aren't afraid of some fantasy "white culture" being under attack, they tend to be more reasonable than those Republicans who are deathly afraid of losing their white cultural identity to a sea of brown immigrants, legal or otherwise.
well apparently Pelosi thinks illegal immigrants are more important than American citizens. I would say that is encouraging for those who come illegal.
so they get more special privileges?
Go back and read the thread. No one is claiming anything. It was an answer to another members assertion that foreign children and American children have the same experience. I pointed out the obvious differences.
but it is somehow our fault that foreigners and their children illegally crossing our boarder do not understand our ways?
What's wrong with saying people come first ?
The poorly photoshopped meme is just stupid.
Your comments are confusing me.
The assertion was that American children and foreign children have the same experience. I pointed out that they could not have the same experience for obvious reasons such as different culture, language barrier, and most likely no extended family here.
My point had nothing to do with whether I believe they should receive "special" treatment or a pass.
sure...as long as you are not Republican you come first. The Republicans just don't belong in her state.
The law applies equally and ignorance is no excuse. If cop stops you for 70 where speed limit changed to 55 claiming cultural differences or you did not know is not a free pass
Also, why is it our fault they have no legal extended family here?
Indeed, even an 8th grander could do better than that. It is so evident that it is photo shopped that it is laughable. Only idiots will buy it and that is their base, and that says it all, and that is all they care about.
huh?
I'm not trying to be rude but I really don't think we are on the same wave length. It may be better to scrap this discussion and hope for a better one on a different article.
OK, I will try to stay away from you here
I didn't ask you to stay away from me. I said we are not talking about the same thing or we don't understand what the other is saying on this particular article. But you should do what you feel is best for you.
OK, not mad
Tell that to the children forced into the severely broken system called Foster Care ... I am certain that they would love to know that they are not alone in a strange place. .. yeah, I am sure those young children understand what is happening to them and the Foster home does not seem like a foreign land (?)
Um, no..I flagged because I was told it was the right thing to do. My argument has pretty much ran over your rhetoric, er, feelings. You said posts ago you were done conversing with me but you continue to do so. Again, why is that?Maybe we can pick up on another thread less volatile...
Deleted, Skirting {SP}
Agreed. From both sides of the political spectrum. The title says it all.
My comment wasn't skirting SP I wasn't referring to a particular person. You should have your monitor license revoked by Perrie for deleting comments you personally don't like. You do it way too often.
It ultimately is a democratic issue. ...along w Th the illegal immigrant.
You cant keep kids detained for more than 3 weeks I believe... so the parents are detained and the kids are released to sponsors. What are the options to fix this? To keep the kid detained with the parents? No one will go for that. So what democrats are wanti is an end to the criminal proceedings of illegally entering our country and just allowin them to enter.
once again democrats are pushing for open borders and trying to use children as an emotional bargaining chip.
I say no more. If they don't want to be separated from their kids they could have not entered our country illegally. We owe nothing to citizens of other countries.
like many policies based on feelings instead of logic... allowing an open border will be disastrous. Just like Californias policy on homelessness based on emotion is blowIng up in their face.
You want to come into the US? Try it legally... even then it is not guaranteed
To keep the kid detained with the parents? No one will go for that.
Wow. Someone is totally out of touch with average Americans.
Does this sound familiar?
"Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me,
I lift my lamp beside the golden door!"
Perhaps this sign should be removed from the Satue of Liberty, since it’s clear that it was only a disingenuous solicitation at a time when America need people to exploit.
Isn't it kind of weird that some think a POEM is the basis for immigration policy?
It was a recruiting slogan when this country needed people and there was open land
a NO VACENCY sign needs to be posted
Yep our immigration policy should be focused on reducing our population not increasing it. With the advancement in robotics we will need even less immigrant labor in the future.
sweeping generalizations [ph] There are reports of families showing up at border crossings with their hands out, asking for asylum from harm, exactly as the poem has so elequently framed. They are having their children ripped from them, and being jailed in separation from them for weeks. In the meantime they are given a phone number to inquire about where their kids are, which then asks for a multitude of data that can be used in a far reaching effort to deny them the help this country has always offered to those in their situations.
Can you show me where this poem has any official government policy status? Why is it that you think this poem is relevant and meaning full but when the Declaration of Independence says our rights come from our Creator, you pooh-pooh it as meaningless?
Can you show me where this poem has any official government policy status? Why is it that you think this poem is relevant and meaning full but when the Declaration of Independence says our rights come from our Creator, you pooh-pooh it as meaningless?
Yes they have been trained to say they are seeking asylum and are fleeing persecution. They pay immigrant smugglers for instructions on what to say at the border. It’s all part of the package deal they buy from the smugglers.
skirting the CoC [ph]
Yep, I can see it now, the interrogation room at a ICE detention center, a man standing across from a toddler, the man says to the toddler, "So, you're seeking asylum." the toddler looks at the man and, says, "Googoo gaga." mean while the mother is in another room across town, being questioned by another man, "So, you're seeking asylum." the woman says, "Please tell me, what did you do with my baby?", the man, "We took the kid to the showers." the woman breaks out crying, 'cause anyone who knows history, knows what that means.
a NO VACENCY sign needs to be posted
It is fitting that you didn’t even spell it right. That aside, do tell us your personal horror stories of how illegals have aggrieved you. Was your search for housing complicated by their existence? Did you lose a job to an illegal?
I used to live in Herndon, VA. I was floored when I moved there and saw how many illegal aliens permeated the city. They would gather in large groups in front of the 7-Eleven and Home Depot, waiting for people to come and hire them for day labor, while unemployed Americans sat on their ass collecting unemployment. America needs citizens with the kind of ambition they display. When I lived there, you never heard stories of local immigrants committing crimes, they were as polite as anyone else.
It was a recruiting slogan when this country needed people and there was open land
I guess what you’re saying is that it was just poorly written, since it doesn’t capture your version of historical facts then? Your version would have read as follows:
For the time being, give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me,
I lift my lamp beside the golden door, until such time that we are sick of your skin color, and greed has allowed those of us already here to keep making a fortune without the servitude of you peasant lowlife scum!”
Yes end the welfare and the Americans will get up off their lazy butts and go pick some tomatoes. Pay a man to sit at home and watch Oprah all day and that’s you end up with.
Yep, that sounds about like what they believe.
Yes they have been trained to say they are seeking asylum and are fleeing persecution.
So the correct approach is to immediately assume that there is no such thing as an honest assylum seeker, so their families should be shredded, caged, and eventually returned to the ‘shit holes’ that they came from. This is the level of humanity that is ingrained in the deplorable Trump supporter.
Absolutely, and I nominate you to put up the letters!
Once again, a poem isn't immigration policy or law.
Yes or no - the New Colossus should be removed from the Statue of Liberty. Be honest, since we all know the truth that is hiding in your tiny little black heart.
The funny thing is the poem was created for one thing: FUNDING THE CONSTRUCTION OF THE STATUE OF LIBERTY.
EDIT:
Once again making assumptions about folks you don't know.
SMDH
I don't care if it is there or not. Not a DAMN thing to do with immigration law or policy, but it is kind of funny you seem to think it is.
Lol - and he dodges answering the question. Classic.
if you can read, you will find I did answer your question.
NEXT?
As a CIA undercover Operative? Yeah, right. I neglected to mention that I am the Queen of Sheba
you the spelling cop now? NT spell check did not underline it
red neon sign like at motels be OK with you?
To raise money for funding the pedestal, not the statue itself as you implied. The French people donated the statue. What does that have to do with the 'poem' or whatever?
From your link,
As I and, many others have said before, what is happening now is a Trump policy not an Obama policy.
Once again making assumptions about folks you don't know.
There’s no answer in there. Skirting the CoC "BF"
Skirting the CoC "BF"
It has turned into a Trojan Horse
"Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
This was written for immigrants arriving legally and going through the whole process, not some illegal border jumpers and all the crap they bring in....crime, disease, bankrupting border states.
Whatever, but Obama even put ads in Central American newspapers inviting young people, to "come on up, we'll let you in". They need to be turned away at the border, put the really young kids with good caregivers, which their parents are not.
Don't like the truth BF?
Trump is making every arrival at our border an illegal act. There is no such thing as a legal procedure for asylum anymore. It’s like they’re guilty until proven innocent ... minus the proving innocent part.
"solicitation at a time when America need people to exploit"
so you are saying America was bad?
Hal - how 'bout telling that to the folks who make unauthorized withdrawals from banks - or who inadvertently run folks over while driving drunk - or falsifying their financial worth - or "gently" push someone into the path of a train/bus/car - who have had their kids taken from them just 'cause they "broke the law"????
Or, how 'bout the Native Americans in many, many cities and states who are incarcerated for having some beverages over their limit - and their kids/family are taken away from them while incarcerated.
Sorry sir - the parents INTENTIONALLY broke the immigration laws and you and the other do-gooders want us to put their kids in jail with them?????? How 'bout if we just turn their Illegal azzes around and send them back the direction they came?
They can stay out of jails and have their kids stay with them. That should make you folks happy - no law breakers and no families being separated.
I’m saying that your interpretation of our intentions makes America look like it was a disingenuous, bad place. I believe your interpretation is totally wrong, btw.
Why are you conflating actual criminals with those who deplorables automatically assume to be criminals?
They are following the law signed by Bill Clinton
“Bill Clinton’s shameful legacy on immigration: “Terrible” laws he signed “rip apart” families and authorize unjust detention, Human Rights Watch says
Rights group says 1996 laws created a system of mass detention and abuse for refugees and migrants
Clinton-era immigration laws "have subjected hundreds of thousands of people to arbitrary detention, fast-track deportations and family separation," Human Rights Watch says in a new report.
The rights group says two 1996 immigration laws signed by President Bill Clinton have created a system in which refugees and migrants face detention and fast-track deportation without adequate consideration from U.S. authorities.”
“The disastrous, forgotten 1996 law that created today's immigration problem”
Did you not know that by violating the Immigration Laws that makes you a criminal????
"For the f irst improper entry offense, the person can be fined ( as a criminal penalty ), or imprisoned for up to six months, or both. For a subsequent offense, the person can be fined or imprisoned for up to two years, or both. (See 8 U.S.C. Section 1325, I.N.A. Section 275.)
But just in case that isn’t enough to deter illegal entrants, a separate section of the law adds penalties for reentry (or attempted reentry) in cases where the person had been convicted of certain types of crimes and thus removed (deported) from the U.S., as follows:
(1) People removed for a conviction of three or more misdemeanors involving drugs, crimes against the person, or both, or a felony (other than an aggravated felony), shall be fined, imprisoned for up to ten years, or both.
(2) People removed for a conviction of an aggravated felony shall be fined, imprisoned for up to 20 years, or both.
(3) People who were excluded or removed from the United States for security reasons shall be fined, and imprisoned for up to ten years, which sentence shall not run concurrently with any other sentence.
(4) Nonviolent offenders who were removed from the United States before their prison sentence was up shall be fined, imprisoned for up to ten years, or both.
What’s more, someone deported before a prison sentence was complete may be incarcerated for the remainder of the sentence of imprisonment, without any reduction for parole or supervised release.
(See 8 U.S.C. Section 1326, I.N.A. Section 276.)"
So, penalties for Illegally entering the U. S. are criminal penalties - unauthorized withdrawals from banks are also criminal actions. In either case, your kids don't go to jail with you - simple fact.
It’s funny how you guys are in lock step with your master’s feeble attempt to portray current events as being directly in line with business as usual under every Democrat administration. Shameful, actually.
When someone shows up requesting asylum, they ARE NOT violating immigration laws.
The truth?? The fish can't handle the truth!
from the article
The new policy does not apply to asylum seekers who enter the United States through an official port of entry without paperwork; those people would only be placed into immigration proceedings.
We can’t help it if you choose to ignore the facts
Sessions has changed the rules regarding what constitutes a valid asylum request. No longer does the US consider your life being threatened by gang violence, sex traffickers, or drug cartels, as being a legitimate threat worthy of seeking asylum. Y’all need to change the channel from FOX once in a while, so you can hear about what is actually happening to your government.
That was the correct step to be taken by Sessions
if they are really seeking asylum, why didn’t they apply in Mexico was has the same agreement with international law?
That was only one part of the fundraising effort.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Statue_of_Liberty#Fundraising
Really. I guess the person who wrote the article was wrong. I would like to read up on that. Do you have a link?
Thanks for the heads up on that but I got the information from the CNN article I posted.
Enjoy the rest of your Saturday.
2.1.24 gives you an answer---IF you bother to read it.
Should we ALL pretend to not see it and understand it?
I went looking for some more information on that. Really couldn't find anything solid.
I did however find this article.
It was an interesting read. Seems the ACLU also thought the Obama administration was being inhumane and unfair to asylum seekers. I guess it doesn't really matter who is doing it someone else isn't going to like it.
Bull to the shit...as you well know, Sugar Britches.
That said nothing regarding your claim, just like your other link. Fail. Again.
And, you know this how? It seems to me any parent would want their child to be safe from harm and, they would do anything to make it so, including walking with that child across as many country's as possible to get them to a safe place. Of course, if you've never been a parent you wouldn't know that.
When someone from another country comes to our border and, asks for asylum the rule is to take them to a place were their case for asylum can be heard. The latest from the border is that border agents are turning people away at the border crossings who are asking for asylum, the question here is why, why are they being turned away? Those same people are so scared to return the way they came so, they cross at other areas, making them illegals when they do and, they are arrested, still asking for asylum. Ya see, it isn't illegal to ask for asylum and, since they tried to do it the legal way but, our border agents are under orders not to accept them, even if there is room you give them no choice. Trust me, returning the way they came is not a choice, it is a death sentence, especially when kids are involved.
There children are still taken from them so, what's the excuse.
Nah, he was right, I was skirting, NP.
If you actually bothered to read the whole thing, you would notice in the construction portion, they ended up using the head in the World's Fair to get funding. And, if you know anything about construction, the pedestal is part of the construction of the statue, as the statue had to be assembled here in the USA after the parts were manufactured in France.
Jeff Sessions' immigration policy changes are a means to a sinister end: The dehumanization of Latinos
Maybe they aren't showing up at the official point of entry for seeking asylum. Maybe they are trying to cross the border illegally and only after they are caught do they say they are seeking asylum. Once you try to cross illegally you have committed a federal offense and those who are apprehended are put into immigration proceedings and face deportation. It's all in the CNN article I shared.
I also found another interesting read I would like to share with you.
You see we have been having issues with all of this for years but it only seems to be coming to light now. I can't imagine why can you? No need to answer.
I'm off to enjoy a beautiful Sunday. You kids have fun.
Thanks for the link. I read it. It's an opinion piece.
The picture He used for his article is from 2014. Two young girls in a holding area at the U.S. Customs and Border Protection Nogales Placement Center on Wednesday, June 18, 2014, in Nogales, Ariz.
So in my opinion he is decribing the conditions of these poor children under the Obama administration when he says this.
There are, to that end, cages for children, with foil blankets and unhygienic conditions in cold rooms away from their parents. Inadequate medical care is rampant. Crumbling Immigration detention facilities are a health hazards all their own: Bathrooms commonly contain mold, chipped paint and toilets that overflow. The government seemingly plans to break the parents by breaking their children.
Here is a link for you if you wish to read it.
From the article.
Liliana fled from her home in Guatemala to the United States with her two young children this March, she did so because she had no other choice.
Liliana had been raped twice by members of a notoriously violent gang: Once when she was washing at the river, and again when gang members broke into her home and raped her and her mother. Both times the gang members threatened that if she tried to report the crimes, they would kill her in front of her three-year-old daughter and one-year-old son and then kill the children too.
Our immigration laws, on paper, guarantee a fair process for vulnerable individuals like Liliana.
Liliana and her children should have easily passed this standard based on the unimaginable harms they suffered, but the asylum officer found otherwise. Liliana and her children were told that deportation back to Guatemala — and near certain death — was imminent.
Only after the ACLU and ACLU of Texas filed a lawsuit on the family's behalf did the government give Liliana a new credible fair interview.
Since last summer, the ACLU has filed six other cases on behalf of Central American refugees fleeing extreme sexual violence and death threats to seek asylum in the United States, only to be detained, determined to have no credible fear, and put into deportation proceedings. In every case, the Obama administration has argued that it can deport asylum-seekers without any oversight or review from the federal courts.
These cases illustrate the inhumanity and unfairness of the Obama administration's treatment of families and adults seeking asylum — treatment that the ACLU is fighting on several fronts.
we recently obtained a ruling from a federal district court enjoining as unconstitutional the government's practice of detaining, asylum-seekinf families for the sole purpose of deterring others from coming to the United States. We also filed a case last year challenging the government's failure to provide counsel to children in imigration court who are forced to represent themselves in deportation hearings.
So you see Hal, we have been having issues with all of this for years but it only seems to be coming to light as a major problem now. I can't imagine why can you? No need to answer
I'm off to enjoy a beautiful Sunday. You kids have fun.
I do not complain about small inadvertent spelling mistakes
No, they are going to the correct point and, being turned away by the guards there. So, then they have no choice but, to enter at another area and, get arrested.
This has become a Rightwing talking point, ie, meme, first, the kids in that picture entered the country WITHOUT ANY ADULTS PRESENT, in other words they were alone, the kids I am talking about came over WITH their parents and, were taken away FROM their parents and, placed in the same detention facility's as those kids who cross by themselves.
Still has absolutely nothing to do with it. Strike three. You're out!
There is no immigration law that says kids must be separated from their parents, that is a Trump administration policy, it is owned by Trump and, Sessions, there is no plan for the kids other than, keep them away from their parents. This policy is already having a bad side effect in the camps, over crowding, ICE is having to build tent cities in places like Texas, were the summer temperatures will reach over a hundred degrees to put these children, some of them are toddlers and, babies, are you ok with toddlers and, babies being in tents in 100 degree weather, I'm not.
Trump says that a law instituted by Democrats forces him to separate children from their parents. He's a god damned liar.
Oh, FFS, it isn't hard to find out what Trump/Sessions/GOP did! Let me make it easy.
That was a separate policy under Obama, those kids came across the border without parents and, were seeking asylum. The kids that Trump and, Sessions are separating from their parents have no choice, they, in effect, are being kidnapped from their parents and, are being held as bargaining chips by the Trump administration.
I can't find any stats to back up what you are stating. Can you provide a link proving Obama had children separated from their parents?
There are a lot of stupid people out there, which explains why Trump is president today.
EVEN IF Democrats occasionally did something similar, that would not make it the Democrats fault TODAY. Period. Trump runs the government and could end the policy that he he instituted last month.
This stupidity of an excuse for Trump is along the lines of saying that Trump isn't responsible for being a birther in 2011 because someone else was first in 2007. It is incredibly moronic to make that excuse, yet I have seen Trumpsters do it on this forum repeatedly.
So one day you are mad because Trump undid some policy by the Great One, and now you are mad because he didn't?
No, it wasn't a policy then, the kids that you and, your friends keep flashing up in photo's came over ALONE WITH NO PARENTS to seek asylum in the U.S., because they were kids ICE couldn't put them with adults in the holding area so, they set up something different but, the FACT is they came here without any parents. This policy that Trump/Sessions is enforcing is owned souly by Trump and, Sessions, what ever happens is on them and, not the Democrats or, Obama, so, get over Obama, he's sunning himself on a beach somewhere.
Trump lies to the public multiple times every damn day. Are you proud to support such trash?
Of course he is, he gets mad whenever someone try's to put Trump down.
YUP!
It's not Trump's fault, or mine, that this situation exists. The left wingers encourage illegals to come here and bring their kids and extended families with them.
Who said it was "your fault"? No one but, it is the fault of Trump, it is his policy and, his alone that is causing this to happen. If by left wingers you mean America then yes, you are right, we have had a standing policy to accept people seeking asylum from oppression but, it seems that we have forgotten that or, at least some of us have. There have always been people in this country who think we should close our borders to "certain kinds" of people but, the fact is most of our great thinkers and, innovators have come from "those people" so, to say that you don't want them here is to say you don't want America to be great, and, you still haven't answered my question, are you ok with toddlers and, baby's living in tents in 100 degree temps.?
Skirting the CoC "BF"
Either that or really, really stupid.
Plus really fucking stupid
What was I skirting? Honest question as I'm still getting used to this place. What is BF?
What was I skirting? Honest question as I'm still getting used to this place. What is BF?
BF are the initials of BadFish, who is a Member Moderator here on NT. He deleted he comment made by Tessylo as Skirting the CoC violation. The Skirting violation comment by BadFish was meant for Tessylo, not you.
Hope this helps.
Ahh. Thanks. Thought it was code for a COC violation. I've looked over the COC and it seems pretty straight forward although I know some are open for interpretation like other places. The sweeping generalizations one I need to work on. I say democrats at time meaning generally... not absolute. I thought that may have been the issue. Need to make sure I clearly don't mean all people when I generalize. Thanks for the info
You are very welcome. I find it is best to use words like some, many, several or most, minority/majority, etc, so that it is not all inclusive or can be mistaken for meaning 'all'. It can also depend on how you phrase the comment.
Also, if you are not sure about something in the CoC you can PM or Chat a Moderator or Perrie and ask them to clarify it for you. That way you are less likely to make mistakes that will get you in trouble. (smile)
Great question.........no one really knows. Some say BF is a myth, some say a nightmare. BF is different things to different people.
Link?
Link to what? I was asking a question. I guess I didn't word it right. I was asking what other options there are. We could keep the kids detained with the parents... but how long would that be? what would the conditions be then?
Up until April of this year that is exactly what was done. The people in question are asylum seekers more than illegals, illegals don't cross at border check points, asylum seekers do. Illegals generally don't have kids with them, asylum seekers do.
my understanding from what I read is that these are people who entered illegally. They didn't go to a proper entry point to claim asylum. Parents get arrested and kids go to care.
Half true. They go to a check point to ask for asylum and, are turned away at the check point per orders of the border guards and, they have to enter illegally to get arrested so, they can then file for asylum so, that also then makes them illegals and, they can be arrested under Sessions new rules.
The article is about Trump being a depraved liar.
"Democrats forced that law upon our nation"
We did this fact check last week. The president must not have read it. Because no fewer than seven times did he repeat the false claim Friday. Seven times he said Democrats are to blame for children being separated from their families at the border.
Here are some examples: -" No, I hate it. I hate the children being taken away. The Democrats have to change their law. That's their law." -"Quiet, quiet [hushing reporter]. That's the Democrats' law." -"The children – the children can be taken care of quickly, beautifully and immediately. The Democrats forced that law upon our nation. I hate it. I hate to see separation of parents and children."
Again, there is no law that says families crossing the border illegally must be separated, let alone one passed by Democrats. What's really happening is that under the administration's "zero tolerance" enforcement, all parents are referred for prosecution and detained, effectively separating them from their children. The children are put in foster care or held in facilities managed by the government. Past administrations also prosecuted people, but they didn't always separate them from their children.
Then there shouldn't be laws against murder, rape, robbery, etc. unless the person committing those crimes has no children.
The seed is about Trump lying. All you Trumpsters are in thrall to it.
Tom, this isn't a law, it is a policy that is held by the administration and, the current DOJ, so, it is all on Trump to fix it and, he could and, should, all he has to do is come out and, tell Sessions to stop the policy.
And, again, you missed the point. If someone breaks the law and they have children, then they are going to jail and are SEPARATED from their children. The illegal immigrants are breaking the law, and are being treated just as American Citizens are treated for breaking the law by being SEPARATED from their children. The fact that Democrats passed the amnesty and laws from the Reagan years does make it the fault of the Democratic Party.
So what do you propose they do? Do they put the children in the same holding facility (jail) as the parent(s)? Do the just let the kids go to fend for themselves?
That is not at all what Trump is using as his rationale.
Does it matter what his rationale is? Since in the end, the truth is that Democrats are at least partially to blame for the situation. Or, do you want blatant lies like "We will lower your premiums by $2500 per family per year."?
So, here's the difference, Americans who break the law have something called family that their kids can go to, they don't usually end up in the foster care system and, they definitely aren't incarcerated like these kids are. In this case the KIDS are being separated from the PARENTS not the parents going off to jail and, the kids staying with a parent or, grandparent.
They do what was done before Jeff Sessions showed his racist self back in April.
When did the Democrats go to Jeff Sessions and, Trump and, say, we want you to take kids away from their parents?
Trump could stop the separating of the children on his own say so. Thus he has complete power to end it or continue. To say that the Democrats are responsible for a procedure that HE instituted just weeks ago is a LIE.
Explain to us how a policy ANNOUNCED BY THE TRUMP ADMINISTRATION A MONTH AGO, is the fault of the Democrats.
Which was?
And, be a party to child abuse since these parents are dragging their children on a dangerous journey just to get to the USA to apply for amnesty and most likely get rejected since the majority of countries they are coming from are just poor not dictatorships or war torn, is that what you are arguing for?
They passed the laws, and now should take responsibility for the consequences of passing those laws making people crossing the border without a visa illegal.
Not in all cases. If that was the case, children of people would never go into foster care. My wife could tell you stories about several foster care children whose parents were drug addicts or criminals and her parents ended up fostering them, even when there were other relatives that could take them in. So, no, it isn't just illegals whose children are separated from the parents and family.
Well then, ship them back to where they came from and let the people there deal with them
This Trump POLICY IS NOT A LAW,
So, here's a question for ya, what constitutes people? Is it just those individuals who you think deserve that designation or, is it every human on earth? Illegals are people too, they deserve to be able to try to make their lives better and, they don't deserve to have their children ripped from their arms because they want to keep their children safe from the despots they are running from.
Ok, and, this is what will happen to them.
well then why are you complaining about them being housed and getting food here?
American Citizen's who charged with a misdemeanor only have their children held for the couple of hours it takes the parent to make bail. IN most cases, family or friends are given custody of the kids for a couple of hours or overnight.
Oh and how about you address the FACT that immigrants with credible claims for asylum are released but their children STILL are NOT returned to them?
As well as the following while temporarily "incarcerated" in central air-conditioned "cages":
for some reason they were not highly thought of or liked were they were
You are purposefully missing the point, they were killed simply for who they were.
that proves they did not like them there. Why should they be allowed to come here and cause problems for US Citizens?
Get over yourself! They aren't the problem, the people that shot them are the problem but, you can't see that for all of your hate.
why do you like them so much?
Why do you hate them so much? They've gone through great hardship to get here for one thing, another reason is that they are human beings and, deserve better treatment at our hands and, to give you a Christian reason, there is this,
So you want kids to remain with abusive parents who put them in danger?
The law requires parents either be let go to roam in the US, never to be seen again, or held in detention separately, since kids can't be held in detention as long as it takes to resolve these cases.
Blame the parents first, then blame the law for requiring them to be separated. The administration is simply following and upholding the law, a foreign concept for Democrats, to be sure.
The world sees this country as full of selfish cruel hateful stupid deplorable evil lying people.
And the blame for this lies solely on President Trump supporters. It's depressing to learn that there are so many people in this country without any goodwill or common decency in them. They refuse to hold this President to even the slightest moral standard and eagerly lap up every lie and racists promise that he offers.
Pretty pathetic and deplorable. It's funny to read how they try to justify what's in their twisted black hearts.
CoC Violation "BF"
Phrasing your insult in a question does not change the intent of your comment. Discuss the article.
I think it's in the basic nature of conservatives. Why else would they vote for con artist, a sociopath, a pathological liar, a racist, a homophobe, a misogynist, an Islamophobe, a xenophobe and an authoritarian? For most people any one of those traits would automatically disqualify a person for public office, but not for a conservative.
There's also very little doubt that conservative support for those vile traits are motivated in part due to the large size of their amygdalas. Supposedly there's a converse relationship to the size of their "hands".
Why else would they vote for con artist, a sociopath, a pathological liar, a racist, a homophobe, a misogynist, an Islamophobe, a xenophobe and an authoritarian?
I don't think any conservative voted for Hillary.
I don't think any conservative voted for Hillary.
???
You "think" wrong.
For starters; I personally know several who did.
And in fact, even some rather prominent conservatives did:
George Bush Sr calls Trump a 'blowhard' and voted for Clinton
None of the Bushes are true conservatives. Republican..yes. Conservative...nope. Your example failed.
Agreed. However, I don't think the Creator will find it funny at all. And Karma really is a Bi*ch.
Recently, Police have been adding separate charge to DWI if kids are in the car, so same should apply here. Parents have broken the law and endangered the children
You seem to be totally unaware that not everyone you are speaking of snuck into this country. Imagine how you would feel if Yellowstone finally erupted and made 3/4 of the US uninhabitable, and when you went to the Canadian border for help, they took your kids and treated you all like criminals. It’s obviously not the same thing, but some South American and Central American countries are experiencing conditions that are life and death scenarios for people who want nothing more that to be productive members of a free society.
but why ours? why do other countries problems become an extra burden for us?
Because we are a prosperous country with opportunities for earning a living I guess. So is Canada, but clearly that isn’t an option from our southern border.
I just don’t understand the knee jerk offensive on our historically symbiotic relationship with immigrants. We need them like they need us. I imagine that if you told a typical unemployed American that they could possibly find prosperity if only they could somehow get themselves to another country a thousand miles south, they would say ‘fuck that’. These people have a hutzpah that is foreign to us entitled Americans.
There is a 2004 movie called A Day Without a Mexican. If you are unfamiliar, it is centered on what would happen to our culture and our economy if every illegal alien in the US magically disappeared overnight. It might be a thought provoking movie for those who refuse to think things through themselves.
Then why aren’t they applying for asylum in Mexico which gives asylum to refugees who ask for it?
this is NOT about asylum. It’s about getting on the US taxpayer gravy train. Free healthcare, free education
The dozens of immigrants standing out in front of most of this country’s Home Depot’s and Lowe’s waiting for day labor aren’t on welfare, genius. That’s the lazy meth head white trash who can’t pass a piss test that you’re thinking of.
You mean the test that many on the right want to make people take and pass before they get assistance but the left vehemently opposes since they couldn't pass one.
Moving the bar. The context was those who are currently being detained at the border, not the millions already here
also you didn’t answer the question. If they really are seeking asylum, why aren’t they asking for asylum when they reach Mexico?
That's a lie.
And I would like it to stay prosperous and use our assets for the Citizens of the USA. Foreigners should not be more important than citizens who for generations made this country prosperous
our resources should be used to help him first, as a citizen he has better claim to help than any foreigner
This is in a sense what the Trump policies are doing .. instead of treating illegal border crossings as a 'civil' violation, it has now become a misdemeanor criminal violation .. thus being a prosecutable offense, a child cannot be held with a parent in the criminal court system..
From what I have read there is no blanket order to separate families ... the current administration has placed the separation of families on a steroids, yet it has been done by other administrations as well...
It should be a felony offence
I read in an article earlier that it has long been a misdemeanor federal offense. I will have to go in search of more information when I have some time.
This is from the article
My wording was wrong, it should have read that 'illegally crossing the border will be prosecuted according to existing laws' rather than continuing to be dealt with like a civil matter...
Here is some interesting reading … NY Times article breaks a few aspects of separating families down a bit ...
You will receive no argument from me …. I do not care for President Trump - but when it comes to illegally crossing the border, I cannot complain about the law being enforced - American families are separated when parents break the law … I am thinking foster care is nothing more than government detention.
Thanks for the links. I will check them out.
I wish there was an easy solution to this. I hate to see any child taken away from a parent but I agree with one of your above comments. That quite possibly all these children are not necessarily coming here with their parents. SMH
It is sad .. but reality dictates that human traffickers are not only exploiting their own children - young people are brought here and placed in 'safe houses' for the explicit purpose of exploiting them .. be it slave labor, or as a sexual slave...
If you have some time to sit back and watch … here is an example from Frontline regarding the exploitation of young illegals claimed by 'supposed' family member and force to work in the egg industry..
Yes.
FACT: This change to U.S. policy is very recent
FACT: It has been instituted by the Trump administration (Not by Congress, not by Hillary, not by Obama, not by Bush).
I took the time and watched the video. It sickened me but I thank you for sharing. I'm glad I watched it. It was very interesting and I learned a few things.
The desperation of those families and the kids that think there is something better waiting for them. Kids as young as 13 being forced into labor to pay off a debt.
To learn that one of our government agencies basically delivered the victims into the hands of their abusers is sad. I can't say that I'm surprised. It seems most of our government run agencies are run at best half assed.
and? Did I say otherwise? .. seems as though it is a link I provided that is the source of the issue you have.
Illuminating leftist darkness
“Bill Clinton’s shameful legacy on immigration: “Terrible” laws he signed “rip apart” families and authorize unjust detention, Human Rights Watch says
Rights group says 1996 laws created a system of mass detention and abuse for refugees and migrants
Clinton-era immigration laws "have subjected hundreds of thousands of people to arbitrary detention, fast-track deportations and family separation," Human Rights Watch says in a new report.
The rights group says two 1996 immigration laws signed by President Bill Clinton have created a system in which refugees and migrants face detention and fast-track deportation without adequate consideration from U.S. authorities.”
“The disastrous, forgotten 1996 law that created today's immigration problem”
1996 illegal immigration bill signed by Bill Clinton
“Another controversial change in immigration procedures is the new summary screening program which allows an INS officer to unilaterally rule that an alien is inadmissible to the US and can be removed without any judicial oversight. The expedited procedure applies to aliens arriving at a port of entry as well as aliens who are not able to demonstrate that they have been continuously present in the US for the two preceding years. The only exception to this rule would be for an alien who expresses an intention to apply for asylum. In those cases, an asylum officer will then conduct a “credible fear of persecution” screening to determine if an asylum applicant shall be permitted to be admitted into the US. If the asylum officer determines there is no credible fear of persecution, the alien will be ordered removed. In this case, however, an alien is entitled to judicial review. Remarkably, given the current backlog in the immigration courts, a court hearing is supposed to take place within 24 hours of denial and in no case more than seven days later.”
That was 22 years ago. Why didn't bush or drumpf do something about it if you dislike it so much?
Hey, XD???? "It's all Bush's fault"? Look who is blaming Clinton? LOL
Who said I dislike it? I approve of the law. I’m educating the ignorant left that harsh border policy was signed by Bill Clinton, this is not new
heres more education for you
Barbara Jordan (1936-1996) was a Civil Rights leader and a pioneering public servant. She was the first African-American woman elected to the Texas Senate (1966), the first woman from Texas to be elected to the U.S Congress (1973-1979), and the first African-American to deliver the
Due to her stature and reputation for integrity, she was appointed chair of the U.S. Commission on Immigration Reform in 1993 by President Bill Clinton, and served in that role until her death in January 1996. Jordan testified several times before Congress regarding the work and findings of the Commission. Below are quotes from Jordan’s testimony before Congress which outline her grasp of the issues surrounding immigration and highlight Congress’ continuing failure to act on the Commission’s recommendations.
“As a nation of immigrants committed to the rule of law, this country must set limits on who can enter and back up these limits with effective enforcement of our immigration law.”
– August 3, 1994
The Commission is particularly concerned about the impact of immigration on the most disadvantaged within our already resident society – inner city youth, racial and ethnic minorities, and recent immigrants who have not yet adjusted to life in the U.S.”
– August 3, 1994
To make sense about the national interest in immigration, it is necessary to make distinctions between those who obey the law, and those who violate it. Therefore, we disagree, also, with those who label our efforts to control illegal immigration as somehow inherently anti-immigrant. Unlawful immigration is unacceptable.”
– February 24, 1995
“Illegal aliens have no right to be in this country. They are not part of our social community. There is no intention that they integrate. As human beings, they have certain rights – we certainly should not turn them away in a medical emergency. As a nation, it is in our interest to provide a limited range of other services- immunizations and treatment of communicable diseases certainly fall into that category. But, if illegal aliens require other aid, it should rightly be provided in their own countries.”,
If people unauthorized to enter believe that they can remain indefinitely once having reached the interior of the nation, they may be more likely to come.”
– August 3, 1994
There are people who argue that some illegal aliens contribute to our community because they may work, pay taxes, send their children to our schools, and in all respects except one, obey the law. Let me be clear: that is not enough.”
– September 29, 1994