Bullied For Its Faith, Muslim Family Fights Back Through Education

Via:  johnrussell  •  2 weeks ago  •  164 comments

Bullied For Its Faith, Muslim Family Fights Back Through Education

S E E D E D   C O N T E N T


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Noshaba Afzal (right) — with daughters (from left) Maimona Afzal Berta, 23, Sana Afzal, 16, and Honna Afzal, 18 — says bullying of Muslims has become a "safety issue."

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It started with a sign pinned to Sana Afzal's backpack after the election in 2016. "I like Trump, you're fired."

At the 16-year-old's new high school in Gilroy, Calif., just outside San Jose, kids whispered in her Spanish class: "Allahu Akbar" — "God is great" in Arabic — in a derogatory way.

And then there was the English class assignment involving a Fox News opinion piecethat linked Islam, her religion as a whole to a horrific stoning in Afghanistan. The article was accompanied by a picture of a young woman in a headscarf — a lot like the one that Sana chooses to wear as a Muslim.

"One guy ... like saw the picture and saw me and was like 'it's the same thing,' " she said.

He was linking her to this terrible act in a country she had never been to and knew little about.

"It was bad, horrible," she said. As she retells the story months later, she trails off and starts to cry.

Going from middle school to high school is always hard, figuring out who to sit with, making friends, etc. But doing it as a Muslim kid of color who covers her hair is even harder.

Teaching tolerance

More than 42 percent of Muslims in the U.S. report bullying among their school-age kids, according to the Institute for Social Policy and Understanding, a think tank that researches issues that affect American Muslims. And in California, it's more than half, according to the Council on American-Islamic Relations. And with the rising anti-Muslim hostility, the Islamic Networks Group, an advocacy organization that counters religious bigotry with education, says bullying is becoming almost the norm for Muslim kids.

The Afzal family says they are facing that anti-Muslim sentiment in many parts of their lives: at the daughters' schools and in the efforts to build a mosque where the community can pray. But they're dealing with it by telling their own stories through educating administrators, classmates and neighbors.

"It was tough. You know, in our days, it was — you get slapped with 'kick me' signs," Sana's mother, Noshaba Afzal, said. "But it wasn't a safety issue."



A lot of what we believe is that religious-based bullying is based on ignorance and miseducation.



Noshaba worried about her daughter's safety especially after incidents like one in Portland, Ore., in 2017, whentwo men were killed protecting a Muslim girl from an attacker.

So Noshaba helped her daughter figure out how to respond to the bullies. They chose education. The Afzal family contacted the school and two advocacy organizations, including the Islamic Networks Group or ING.

"They deal with situations where they are being targeted or called terrorists. In some situations, this actually comes from the administrators and teachers," said Ishaq Pathan, who runs the youth programs at ING.

He worked with the school to create a presentation about inclusion and understanding people's differences, including Muslims. Now it's a model that ING pulls out when other schools ask for help — a half-dozen times so far.

"The main thing that we're focusing on is religious-based bullying," Pathan says. "And a lot of what we believe is that religious-based bullying is based on ignorance and miseducation."

This year, the school says, it has pulled the offending article from the English class. And Sana says things are better. Her battle is mostly over, but her family's and her community's is not.

Seeking a place to pray

The family of six prays in a remodeled barn in nearby San Martin with the South Valley Islamic Community. The community has been trying to build a mosque with a community center and cemetery for years, but the project has been a lightning rod. Noshaba remembers the first land-use meeting at the City of Santa Clara Planning Commission in 2012.

"Person after person got up and just blasted," she said, " 'we don't want them here. They're bringing Sharia law. You guys are terrorists.' "

The rhetoric was shocking, she says, interspersed with concerns about the building's environmental impact — an issue often raised to block mosque construction. Since then, it has been six years of legal back-and-forth. Noshaba says you have to make a choice at moments like these: Accept it, or say: "No, this is not the America we want it to be. And we know America can be what we want, where it's inclusion and it's our rights. And we just want to practice."


The opposition has been led by the People's Coalition for Government Accountability and the Gilroy-Morgan Hill Patriots. But Georgine Scott-Codiga, who speaks for the Patriots, says it's not about Islam.

"The bottom line is these people came and bullied themselves into the neighborhood," says Scott-Codiga. "All the traffic, all the cars, the noise. We want to protect that land."

And, she adds, she understands why people are worried about Muslims changing "the way of life."

The Patriots post anti-Muslim rhetoric on its Facebook page and have invited an anti-Muslim speaker, Peter Friedman, to present on his views that Islam is a threat to America.

In 2012, the planning board approved the permit for the Islamic center — and then was sued. The South Valley Islamic Community voluntarily gave up the permits and started the process again, this time with pro bono legal help. The group says the wider community is supportive, but the opposition is loud and trying to bankrupt it before the mosque can be built.

Teachable moments

Meanwhile, Noshaba's eldest daughter, Maimona Afzal Berta, is a 23-year-old special education teacher in San Jose, Calif., who also wears a headscarf. She says the bullying and problems started for her in fall 2016.

"I'd hear someone shout from outside my classroom, you know, say, 'You're working with ISIS or you're a terrorist,' " she says, recounting the bullying this spring.

Others would bang on her windows and doors, and some would say "shoot her" and motion like they were firing a machine gun.

She talked to the administrators, and Maimona helped them put together a program to teach kids about inclusion and celebrating diversity.

"So at the end of that school year, it was like, 'wow, like, we made some progress,' " she said.

And so last fall, she was excited to start teaching again. She showed up early to her classroom at Fischer Middle School on Sept. 11 to prepare for a lesson. But as she turned the corner to her classroom, she saw hate.



I'm not the issue here. It's not even these students. It's the fact that we haven't done a good enough job of educating our students.



"And I find the windows and doors vandalized with words associating me with terrorism," she says, stopping to gather herself, crying as she recalls the vandalism. "You know, 'ISIS,' just like very hateful words — profanities. And I was just like shocked."

Maimona went to the school again. She says an administrator asked whether she wanted to change schools.

"Your solution is essentially to get rid of me?" she said. "I'm not the issue here. It's not even these students. It's the fact that we haven't done a good enough job of educating our students."

Imee Almazan, the principal where Maimona teaches, says Maimona turned her trauma into teachable moments for the kids.

"She has such great courage to speak up against the injustice that she had experienced specifically here at our school," she said. "And school is, you know, school is supposed to be a safe place for everybody, right?"

She says children mimic what they see around them, and she believes it's no coincidence that this started happening at a time that Donald Trump started professing not only anti-Muslim sentiment but also rhetoric against immigrants and other minority communities.

Maimona says she realized that if this was happening in her school, a place with a majority student body of color, then it was happening other places, too. So when a seat on her neighborhood school board opened up, she applied.

In front of an all-male board, she made her case.

"I am the granddaughter of a refugee and an orphan who fulfilled his dreams in this country through an educational experience," she told them.

She was up against five other candidates all vying for a seat vacated by a board member on the Franklin-McKinley School District board who had been accused of corruption.

At first, it was a tie between the two female candidates.

And then Maimona was chosen.

She went to the podium and was sworn in. And the men on the board all welcomed her, telling her they were excited to have a woman of color among them.

She did this, she says, not only to change things for herself but also for her younger sister, for other Muslim families and for any child who feels like an outsider.

"I'm just honestly in shock," she said after being sworn in just over a week ago. "I mean. I've never seen a board member who looks like me. It seems like a dream right now."

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JohnRussell
1  JohnRussell    2 weeks ago

The other Newstalkers article that addressed this story viewed it solely from the point of view that the Muslim groups were trying to indoctrinate American schoolchildren with the Islamic religion. 

That is what happens when an islamophobic conspiracy site is used as the source (World Net Daily).

Half of that article was taken up with links, some over 10 years old, that purported to be about American parents accusing their local school of indoctrinating kids with Islam. I looked at a few of those links. They were mainly instances where the local schools were teaching the kids a little about Islam as part of a history, geography, or world cultures class. Nothing wrong with it at all. 

We can't allow bigots to dictate what will happen in our schools. 

 
 
WallyW
1.1  WallyW  replied to  JohnRussell @1    2 weeks ago
Nothing wrong with it at all. 

Nope, nothing wrong at all with discrimination against women and making women second hand citizens and the property of the husbands. I also can't think of another religion that condones honor killings. They said it's just a cultural thing, nothing wrong with it at all.

https://www.amnestyusa.org/the-horror-of-honor-killings-even-in-us/

 
 
MrFrost
1.1.1  MrFrost  replied to  WallyW @1.1    2 weeks ago
Nope, nothing wrong at all with discrimination against women and making women second hand citizens and the property of the husbands.

That's the way their culture is. Don't like it? Don't be a member, pretty simple really. Trust me, they see our culture the same way you see theirs. 

 
 
Skrekk
1.1.2  Skrekk  replied to  MrFrost @1.1.1    2 weeks ago
That's the way their culture is.

In these case these are American kids so they'd be just as likely to condemn the misogyny of a Muslim culture like Saudi Arabia as they would the misogyny of the Southern Baptists in Texas or the Mormons in Utah who don't allow their women any authority over men in their sect.....all three of which also preach the same hatred of LGBT folks.

 
 
MrFrost
1.1.3  MrFrost  replied to  Skrekk @1.1.2    2 weeks ago

Exactly, well said. 

 
 
epistte
1.1.4  epistte  replied to  WallyW @1.1    2 weeks ago
Nope, nothing wrong at all with discrimination against women and making women second hand citizens and the property of the husbands.

That also applies to the Christian religion where women are taught to be subservient to men. Women must marry their rapist in the Old Testament. 

Theistic religion is the problem. 

 
 
sandy-2021492
1.1.5  sandy-2021492  replied to  WallyW @1.1    2 weeks ago
Nope, nothing wrong at all with discrimination against women and making women second hand citizens and the property of the husbands.

Oh, gee, I can't think of a single other religion in which women are second class citizens Eye Roll

 
 
charger 383
1.1.6  charger 383  replied to  MrFrost @1.1.1    2 weeks ago
, they see our culture the same way you see theirs.

So who's culture is more important in our country?

 
 
Tessylo
1.1.7  Tessylo  replied to  charger 383 @1.1.6    2 weeks ago

No culture is more important than another in the US.  We are supposed to be the great melting pot are we not?  All cultures should be equal.   

 
 
charger 383
1.1.8  charger 383  replied to  Tessylo @1.1.7    2 weeks ago

But which one has to give in?

 
 
sandy-2021492
1.1.9  sandy-2021492  replied to  charger 383 @1.1.8    2 weeks ago

Neither has to give in.  These girls weren't trying to force Arabic/Muslim culture on their schoolmates.  Their schoolmates were bullying them because they're Muslim.

There doesn't need to be a fight at all, if we'd all just let each other be.

 
 
Tessylo
1.1.10  Tessylo  replied to  charger 383 @1.1.8    2 weeks ago

Give in?  What the what?  No one has to give in. Just respect other cultures.   You know,  the Golden Rule?

 
 
charger 383
1.1.11  charger 383  replied to  sandy-2021492 @1.1.9    2 weeks ago

both sides don't trust and fear the other and don't want to give in

 
 
charger 383
1.1.12  charger 383  replied to  Tessylo @1.1.10    2 weeks ago

How do you get them to do that?  (I really don't know)

 
 
Skrekk
1.1.13  Skrekk  replied to  charger 383 @1.1.8    2 weeks ago
But which one has to give in?

Who knew that not bullying children is "giving in"?

 
 
Tessylo
1.1.14  Tessylo  replied to  charger 383 @1.1.12    2 weeks ago

Easy.  Live and let live.  The Golden Rule.  

 
 
charger 383
1.1.15  charger 383  replied to  Tessylo @1.1.14    2 weeks ago

I wish it was that easy.  

 
 
Tessylo
1.1.16  Tessylo  replied to  charger 383 @1.1.15    2 weeks ago

It is that easy.

 
 
charger 383
1.1.17  charger 383  replied to  Tessylo @1.1.16    2 weeks ago

why isn't it working?    (I'm Not trying to be a smart ass)

 
 
Tessylo
1.1.18  Tessylo  replied to  charger 383 @1.1.17    2 weeks ago

It's not working for those who are intolerant of other people's cultures or faith or beliefs.

It doesn't help when the 'president' tries to institute Muslim bans either.  

 
 
sandy-2021492
1.1.19  sandy-2021492  replied to  Tessylo @1.1.16    2 weeks ago

It should be that easy, but I'm not sure that it is.  Too many people have been convinced that Muslim=terrorist, even though Muslims are the victims of terror attacks, and there are plenty of non-Muslim terrorists.  And then too many Muslims get defensive (understandably so) at the distrust they face.

I'm not sure what the answer is, either, but bullying isn't it, and neither is one group giving up their religion to suit the other.

 
 
Skrekk
1.1.20  Skrekk  replied to  charger 383 @1.1.17    2 weeks ago
why isn't it working?

Because most conservatives don't actually practice the Golden Rule, and some kids haven't yet learned it.

 
 
charger 383
1.1.22  charger 383  replied to  Tessylo @1.1.14    one week ago
Easy.  Live and let live.  The Golden Rule.

We can't do that here.  I try to be nice and not insult 

 
 
Tessylo
1.1.23  Tessylo  replied to  charger 383 @1.1.22    one week ago

Are you implying that I'm insulting?  Is here newstalkers?

 
 
Skrekk
1.1.24  Skrekk  replied to  sandy-2021492 @1.1.19    one week ago
and there are plenty of non-Muslim terrorists

In fact most terrorist attacks in the US are committed by right-wing Christian extremists.

 
 
Kathleen/Butterfie
1.1.25  Kathleen/Butterfie  replied to  sandy-2021492 @1.1.5    one week ago

Do you think that of all women that practice the Christain religion?

 
 
Kathleen/Butterfie
1.1.26  Kathleen/Butterfie  replied to  sandy-2021492 @1.1.9    one week ago

So if it was reversed would you feel the same way?

 
 
sandy-2021492
1.1.27  sandy-2021492  replied to  Kathleen/Butterfie @1.1.25    one week ago

I think my comments in total would support that I don't see women of any religion as second-class citizens.  I've been pretty consistent in expressing that opinion.

 
 
sandy-2021492
1.1.28  sandy-2021492  replied to  Kathleen/Butterfie @1.1.26    one week ago

I have repeatedly said I don't think anybody should be bullied for their religion.  I have to wonder why you ask essentially the same question over and over.

Do you think it's ok to call nonbelievers "pieces of shit" (abbreviated, of course), or say they all want to censor creationists? 

 
 
Krishna
1.1.29  Krishna  replied to  epistte @1.1.4    one week ago

Theistic religion is the problem. 

I disagree. 

That's quite an over-generalization!
(In fact its extremely illogical! :^)
Just as there Muslims who are wonderful people-- there are some who are the opposite. And the same is true with other religions. And while your own political agenda may keep you from admitting it-- the same is true of Atheists as well.
(I have personally known or known about examples of all of those cases).
 
 
epistte
1.1.30  epistte  replied to  Krishna @1.1.29    one week ago
I disagree. 
That's quite an over-generalization!
(In fact its extremely illogical! :^)
Theistic religion brainwashes people to ignore logic and to act on command instead of thinking for themselves. 
Just as there Muslims who are wonderful people-- there are some who are the opposite. And the same is true with other religions. And while your own political agenda may keep you from admitting it-- the same is true of Atheists as well.
I've met people of almost all religions that I truly enjoy being with but for the most part none of them were the hardcore theocrats that seek to convert others. 
 
(I have personally known or known about examples of all of those cases).
I've met a few atheists who were as annoying as newly converted vegans and vegetarians. 

 
 
Kathleen/Butterfie
1.1.31  Kathleen/Butterfie  replied to  sandy-2021492 @1.1.27    one week ago

One of your comments did not look that way.  That is the reason I asked.

btw, I never called a non believer a pos.

 
 
sandy-2021492
1.1.32  sandy-2021492  replied to  Kathleen/Butterfie @1.1.31    one week ago
One of your comments did not look that way.  That is the reason I asked.

I'm sure it didn't, to somebody determined to misinterpret most of my comments.

I never called a non believer a pos.

I never said you did.

 
 
Kathleen/Butterfie
1.1.33  Kathleen/Butterfie  replied to  Tessylo @1.1.14    one week ago

It's a shame that some can't seem to follow that. Even the ones that mention it.

 
 
Tessylo
1.1.34  Tessylo  replied to  Kathleen/Butterfie @1.1.33    one week ago

You seem to have a persecution complex.   Not my problem. 

 
 
Kathleen/Butterfie
1.1.35  Kathleen/Butterfie  replied to  Tessylo @1.1.34    one week ago

No Tessy, we all know that we all wish that some would follow the Golden rule, but many do not.

 
 
Tessylo
1.1.36  Tessylo  replied to  Kathleen/Butterfie @1.1.35    one week ago

Yes I know that.  How about you

 
 
Kathleen/Butterfie
1.1.37  Kathleen/Butterfie  replied to  Tessylo @1.1.36    one week ago

I try to, but like most people, there is more room for improvement.

 
 
Tessylo
1.1.38  Tessylo  replied to  Kathleen/Butterfie @1.1.37    one week ago

Same here Kathleen, same here

 
 
Skrekk
1.1.39  Skrekk  replied to  Krishna @1.1.29    one week ago

Theistic religion is the problem. 

I disagree. 

That's quite an over-generalization!
(In fact its extremely illogical! :^)

I agree with Epistte's statement and here's my logic: theism is essentially a means of avoiding responsibility for one's own bad behavior (ie, "I don't hate gays, it's my imaginary friend who hates gays"), and it's also a means of illegitimately trying to control other people's behavior by an appeal to an external authority....one which doesn't actually exist.

 
 
Krishna
1.1.40  Krishna  replied to  Skrekk @1.1.24    one week ago

In fact most terrorist attacks in the US are committed by right-wing Christian extremists.

Well, given the fact that 70% of the U.S. population is Christian, and about 1% is Muslim, is it any surprise that there are more terrorist attacks perpetrated by right wing Christians than by right wing Muslims?

 
 
Krishna
1.1.41  Krishna  replied to  epistte @1.1.4    one week ago
Women must marry their rapist in the Old Testament. 

Well, I don't know about you-- but I'm living in the 21st century!

(Online, the"whattabout derail" reigns!)

 
 
Skrekk
1.1.42  Skrekk  replied to  Krishna @1.1.40    one week ago
Well, given the fact that 70% of the U.S. population is Christian, and about 1% is Muslim, is it any surprise that there are more terrorist attacks perpetrated by right wing Christians than by right wing Muslims?

Of course not.    And thus any sane person would recognize that the overwhelming terrorist threat to Americans comes from domestic Christian extremists.

 
 
epistte
1.1.43  epistte  replied to  Krishna @1.1.40    one week ago
Well, given the fact that 70% of the U.S. population is Christian, and about 1% is Muslim, is it any surprise that there are more terrorist attacks perpetrated by right wing Christians than by right wing Muslims?

Conservatives in the US ignore the much greater threat posed by American extremists and focus on the minuscule threat posed by Muslims, maybe because they agree with those same conservative extremists.  

 
 
epistte
1.1.44  epistte  replied to  Krishna @1.1.41    one week ago
Well, I don't know about you-- but I'm living in the 21st century! (Online, the"whattabout derail" reigns!)

The Abrahamic religions are all inherently violent and misogynistic. This is why the strict separation of church and state is so very important to those of us who support secular freedom, especially those in minorities.

 
 
Krishna
1.1.45  Krishna  replied to  Tessylo @1.1.18    one week ago

It's not working for those who are intolerant of other people's cultures or faith or beliefs.

I couldn't help but notice that you avoided answering charge 383's question which was:

why isn't it working?  

He asked a why question-- you didn't say why.... (I wonder-- are you aware of that?)

 
 
Skrekk
1.2  Skrekk  replied to  JohnRussell @1    2 weeks ago

Thanks for seeding this John - it's nice to see the contrast between a straightforward report of a topic [deleted]

 
 
JohnRussell
1.2.1  JohnRussell  replied to  Skrekk @1.2    2 weeks ago

I don't know why anyone would seed from those sites, unless they are desperate. If you can't find something to corroborate your story in the MSM, it may not be worth discussing. 

 
 
Skrekk
1.2.2  Skrekk  replied to  JohnRussell @1.2.1    2 weeks ago
I don't know why anyone would seed from those sites, unless they are desperate.

It's clear that particular seeder [deleted] with an agenda against CAIR. [deleted]

 
 
Dismayed Patriot
2  Dismayed Patriot    2 weeks ago

"The community has been trying to build a mosque with a community center and cemetery for years, but the project has been a lightning rod."

"it has been six years of legal back-and-forth"

Could you imagine if this was a Christian group trying to build a Church but getting blocked by some anti-Christian group for 6 years? Fox News and every angry Christian in the nation would be down there demanding their right to build a place of worship. Just more evidence of how hypocritical most Christians really are. They don't actually believe in freedom of religion, they believe in freedom for their religion.

Personally, I'd love to see all religious organizations, including Islamic groups, lose their tax exempt status and were banned from injecting their religious views into schools so no teacher would be assigning projects like copying Koran scriptures in Calligraphy or doing any Christmas, Easter or Halloween art projects, plays or musicals. I wouldn't be opposed to a world cultures class that teaches children about different cultures and religions, but not one of indoctrination, just general information about Christianity, Islam, Buddhism, Judaism, Hinduism etc. where they are all presented as equal when it comes to veracity and validity.

 
 
WallyW
2.1  WallyW  replied to  Dismayed Patriot @2    2 weeks ago

Islam considers any other religion as false, and all who practice them as infidels to be destroyed. Look it up.

 
 
JohnRussell
2.1.1  JohnRussell  replied to  WallyW @2.1    2 weeks ago

The mother in the story above is an educator. One of her daughters is a special ed teacher in California. Her other two daughters are still in school themselves. They don't sound like they want to destroy anyone , they sound like decent intelligent people who happen to have a religion that many Americans have a hatred for. 

There are literally hundreds of millions of Muslims around the world that don't want to destroy you Wally. 

 
 
Trout Giggles
2.1.2  Trout Giggles  replied to  WallyW @2.1    2 weeks ago

Many Christians denominations believe all other religions are false.

 Not all Christian denominations want all other believers killed <---------- that is how you write a statement that is not a sweeping generalization

 
 
It Is ME
2.1.3  It Is ME  replied to  JohnRussell @2.1.1    2 weeks ago
they sound like decent intelligent people who happen to have a religion that many Americans have a hatred for. 

I guess that makes "them" special, and the "others" just have to take it because they're NOT different ?

 
 
JohnRussell
2.1.4  JohnRussell  replied to  It Is ME @2.1.3    2 weeks ago

Take what? 

 
 
It Is ME
2.1.5  It Is ME  replied to  JohnRussell @2.1.4    2 weeks ago
Take what?

The same !

Ya even see it in NT articles and from NT members all the time.

"Now what can one find that makes the Bible Irrelevant" ! Thinking 2

 
 
JohnRussell
2.1.6  JohnRussell  replied to  It Is ME @2.1.5    2 weeks ago

Say it in plain English next time. 

 
 
It Is ME
2.1.7  It Is ME  replied to  JohnRussell @2.1.6    2 weeks ago

[deleted]

 
 
JohnRussell
2.1.8  JohnRussell  replied to  It Is ME @2.1.7    2 weeks ago

Does it come naturally? 

 
 
It Is ME
2.1.9  It Is ME  replied to  JohnRussell @2.1.8    2 weeks ago
Does it come naturally? 

chuckle

 
 
Dismayed Patriot
2.1.10  Dismayed Patriot  replied to  WallyW @2.1    2 weeks ago
Islam considers any other religion as false, and all who practice them as infidels to be destroyed.

So the only current difference between Islam and Christianity is Christians are waiting for their God to return to do the killing of those they consider infidels. Though, the reality is only radical extremists from both camps choose to believe it's their job to kill the infidels, most Muslims and Christians are waiting on their God to come and annihilate their enemies. What I find even more interesting is that they both claim to be worshiping the same God of Abraham.

 
 
epistte
2.1.11  epistte  replied to  WallyW @2.1    2 weeks ago
Islam considers any other religion as false, and all who practice them as infidels to be destroyed. Look it up.

Conservative Christians believe that Islam is not a religion. 

The Old Testament tells Christians to kill infidels, 

Deuteronomy 17 If there be found among you, within any of thy gates which the LORD thy God giveth thee, man or woman, that hath wrought wickedness in the sight of the LORD thy God, in transgressing his covenant; 17:3 And hath gone and served other gods, and worshipped them, either the sun, or moon, or any of the host of heaven, which I have not commanded; 17:4 And it be told thee, and thou hast heard of it, and enquired diligently, and, behold, it be true, and the thing certain, that such abomination is wrought in Israel; 17:5 Then shalt thou bring forth that man or that woman, which have committed that wicked thing, unto thy gates, even that man or that woman, and shalt stone them with stones, till they die.
 
 
Buzz of the Orient
2.1.12  Buzz of the Orient  replied to  JohnRussell @2.1.1    one week ago

You're absolutely correct. However, although most probably are moderate Muslims and good people, there are still many who want to impose their religion on others:

Islam.-400x267.jpg

 
 
Galen Marvin Ross
2.1.13  Galen Marvin Ross  replied to  Buzz of the Orient @2.1.12    one week ago

there are still many Christian extremists who want to impose their religion on the world.

 
 
Gordy327
2.1.14  Gordy327  replied to  WallyW @2.1    one week ago

I've seen many Christians also make the claim that any other religion besides christianity is also false.

 
 
sandy-2021492
2.1.15  sandy-2021492  replied to  Gordy327 @2.1.14    one week ago

And it has to be the "right" denomination, too.

 
 
Gordy327
2.1.16  Gordy327  replied to  sandy-2021492 @2.1.15    one week ago

Indeed. Otherwise,  they're not "real christians."

 
 
Trout Giggles
2.1.17  Trout Giggles  replied to  sandy-2021492 @2.1.15    one week ago

Ain't that the truth!

Catholics get villified here in the South and it's not because of the priest abuse thingy. Some protestant denominations accuse Catholics of being idol worshippers

 
 
sandy-2021492
2.1.18  sandy-2021492  replied to  Trout Giggles @2.1.17    one week ago
Some protestant denominations accuse Catholics of being idol worshippers

The churches I was raised in certainly did.  Prayer to saints was considered to be idolatry, so Catholics were going to Hell.

 
 
Krishna
2.1.19  Krishna  replied to  epistte @2.1.11    one week ago
The Old Testament tells Christians to kill infidels, 

But whattabout* those Christians that don't believe the Bible is upposed to be takn literally? Or do believe they don't exist?

_________________

*See-- two can play the "Whattabout-derail game" Wink

 
 
epistte
2.1.20  epistte  replied to  Krishna @2.1.19    one week ago
But whattabout* those Christians that don't believe the Bible is upposed to be takn literally? Or do believe they don't exist? _________________

Of course they exist but those rational Christians tend to be far more moderate and are not the religious problem children.  The idea of a literal translation of the bible is a relatively recent idea that I first heard about in the early to mid-1980s. Most people that I knew saw the Bible as a book of parables and mythology not to be read literally.  I laughed at the fundamentalists when I discovered that some of these thumpers actually thought that the Earth was 6000 years old and that the Bible was the literal word of god.   It's a very special brand of crazy to think that a burning bush talked and that Jesus literally walked on water. 

 
 
Krishna
2.2  Krishna  replied to  Dismayed Patriot @2    one week ago
where they are all presented as equal when it comes to veracity and validity.

But they aren't all equal-- Buddhism is better that the others.

(While the others want to commit jihad and forceably convert people & keep people from enjoying wonderful things like sex, Buddhists are peaceful and accepting-- all they want to do is be peaceful and sit around meditating on what is the sound of one hand clapping (And other stuff like that).

 
 
lennylynx
3  lennylynx    2 weeks ago

Great article, JR, the idea that Muslims are the ones throwing their weight around in America, is absurd.

 
 
Dismayed Patriot
3.1  Dismayed Patriot  replied to  lennylynx @3    2 weeks ago
the idea that Muslims are the ones throwing their weight around in America, is absurd

What I think Christians are most afraid of, besides their ever present doubt of their own faith that they disguise with over the top public displays of devotion, is that the population of Muslims is growing (even though it's still less than 1%) while the number of those professing to be Christian has shrunk from well over 85% just a few decades ago to now just barely over 70%.

 
 
Galen Marvin Ross
3.1.1  Galen Marvin Ross  replied to  Dismayed Patriot @3.1    one week ago
is that the population of Muslims is growing (even though it's still less than 1%) while the number of those professing to be Christian has shrunk from well over 85% just a few decades ago to now just barely over 70%.

What I find interesting in the number of Christians that have left that religion is that some, not all, have become Atheists and, some, not all have become Wiccan, the rest are Agnostic.

 
 
Trout Giggles
3.1.2  Trout Giggles  replied to  Dismayed Patriot @3.1    one week ago

I would really like to see the population of both religions reduce in numbers

 
 
Dismayed Patriot
3.1.3  Dismayed Patriot  replied to  Trout Giggles @3.1.2    one week ago
I would really like to see the population of both religions reduce in numbers

I would love to see the membership of all organized religions reduce in numbers. That would mean that the number of logical, rational humans would be growing and I can't see how that would ever be a bad thing.

 
 
Trout Giggles
3.1.4  Trout Giggles  replied to  Dismayed Patriot @3.1.3    one week ago

But especially Islam and Christianity. They seem to have the most militant adherents.

Did anybody notice the reply box????? Awesome!

 
 
Krishna
3.1.5  Krishna  replied to  Galen Marvin Ross @3.1.1    one week ago

What I find interesting in the number of Christians that have left that religion is that some, not all, have become Atheists and, some, not all have become Wiccan, the rest are Agnostic.

I've also known some who have become Buddhists and others who have chosen to follow a spiritual (but not a conventional religious) path.

 
 
Galen Marvin Ross
3.1.6  Galen Marvin Ross  replied to  Krishna @3.1.5    one week ago
I've also known some who have become Buddhists and others who have chosen to follow a spiritual (but not a conventional religious) path.

Yes, I haven't even thought of that but, my niece is a Buddhist and, she did grow up in "Christian" home, I use the quotations simply because I don't remember my brother practicing the religion that much but, he did live by the tenants set forth by Jesus, even if those around him didn't and, he didn't attend church every Sunday. She takes care of a temple in Vermont near her home.

 
 
bugsy
5  bugsy    2 weeks ago

I find it intriguing that when someone of the Islamic faith feels as if they are discriminated against, there is a horde of liberals to come to their defense and swear that Islam is exclusively a religion of peace...but if a Christian is persecuted in some way, that same horde give out a collective "meh, they had it coming anyway" response.

I am sure these people are very nice. I work with a young woman who came here from Afghanistan 16 years ago, and she is the nicest person you will find, but there are literally millions of Islamists that want to see the western world destroyed and the people here conform to Islam or be killed.

Liberals refuse to want to tackle this at all, but have no problem degrading the entire faith of Christianity, making idiotic comments like "spaghetti monster", or "sky fairy", etc, if one person did an atrocious act against anyone. Maybe it is because they know Christians are not going to call for their head and they are the easier targets.

 
 
charger 383
5.1  charger 383  replied to  bugsy @5    2 weeks ago
Christians are not going to call for their head and they are the easier targets.

a good point

 
 
MrFrost
5.2  MrFrost  replied to  bugsy @5    2 weeks ago
I find it intriguing that when someone of the Islamic faith feels as if they are discriminated against, there is a horde of liberals to come to their defense and swear that Islam is exclusively a religion of peace...but if a Christian is persecuted in some way, that same horde give out a collective "meh, they had it coming anyway" response.

Um, no. Every religion has it's bad elements and it's the right wing media that insists every Muslim is a horrible person plotting to blow you up. The backlash is the left wing claiming the same thing for Christians. Neither side is right. 

About 4 million Muslims live in the USA today. If they were all evil, we would have known a LONG time ago. Lets put it another way...

Since 9/11/01, roughly 220 people have been killed by Muslim terrorists in the USA. In that same time frame, over 200,000 people have been murdered by fellow Americans that were NOT Muslims, (and if we want to break that number down, ~63% of Americans identify as Christian, which would mean well over 100,000 people have been killed by Christians in the USA, since 9/11/01). The constant bleating that Muslims are hiding in the bushes at every corner waiting to kill Americans is complete and utter BULLSHIT. Vending machines kill more people in the USA every year than Muslims do. 

The VAST majority of Muslims ARE good people. But like any other religion, there are bad elements. 

 
 
bugsy
5.2.1  bugsy  replied to  MrFrost @5.2    2 weeks ago
Every religion has it's bad elements and it's the right wing media that insists every Muslim is a horrible person plotting to blow you up. The backlash is the left wing claiming the same thing for Christians. Neither side is right. 

Um, never did I dispute that all religions have their bad actors. On the contrary, I STATED that most people that follow Islam are good people, even STATING that the people in the article are probably good people, but there are literally millions who want to kill or force everyone in the western world to conform to Islam.

I am going to be very honest here. Never have I seen ANY liberal, on NT, or any other comment board, come to the defense of Christians around the world when they are being persecuted. What I have seen is exactly what I STATED, that the left gives out a collective "meh, who cares" attitude when a story of Christian persecution is posted, but quickly come to the defense of anyone of Islamic faith that state they have been discriminated against, quickly going to the defamation of Christianity when an person of Islamic faith are discriminated against.

Maybe you just simply need to reread my comment to understand what I STATED...

 
 
Trout Giggles
5.2.2  Trout Giggles  replied to  bugsy @5.2.1    2 weeks ago
Never have I seen ANY liberal, on NT, or any other comment board, come to the defense of Christians around the world when they are being persecuted

Then you haven't been paying attention. Or you really don't like to give people credit for defending Christians who are suffering real persecution around the world such as China, the Middle East...and Israel. Yeah...Israel persecutes Christians, too, but nobody ever wants to talk about that

 
 
MrFrost
5.2.3  MrFrost  replied to  bugsy @5.2.1    2 weeks ago
but there are literally millions of Islamists that want to see the western world destroyed and the people here conform to Islam or be killed.

This part? MILLIONS? Proof? 

 
 
bugsy
5.2.4  bugsy  replied to  Trout Giggles @5.2.2    2 weeks ago

Show me where liberals have defended Christians persecuted worldwide. I know of many conservative groups that have been outspoken of the atrocities in the Middle East and China, but have ever seen a liberal group do the same.

 
 
Trout Giggles
5.2.6  Trout Giggles  replied to  bugsy @5.2.4    2 weeks ago

OH!!!!!!!!!!!!! You want GROUPS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Is that what the young un's call moving the goal posts?

TBH....I haven't see any liberal GROUPS speak about any religious persecution. I have seen individuals who have defended Christians who are are suffering real persecution.

 
 
bugsy
5.2.7  bugsy  replied to  MrFrost @5.2.3    2 weeks ago
This part? MILLIONS? Proof? 

Here ya go...

Salafists constitute a minority of the Muslim population. For example, in France, estimates range from 5,000 to 20,000 – out of a Muslim population of over 4 million. Security experts estimate a worldwide number of 50 million out of 1.6 billion Muslims.

http://theconversation.com/who-exactly-are-radical-muslims-73098

 
 
MrFrost
5.2.8  MrFrost  replied to  bugsy @5.2.4    2 weeks ago
Show me where liberals have defended Christians persecuted worldwide.

Are you seriously suggesting that there are no liberals that are Christians? Please tell me you're joking. 

 
 
Trout Giggles
5.2.9  Trout Giggles  replied to  MrFrost @5.2.8    2 weeks ago

He wants groups, Mr Frost. Groups.

 
 
Skrekk
5.2.10  Skrekk  replied to  bugsy @5.2.4    2 weeks ago
I know of many conservative groups that have been outspoken of the atrocities in the Middle East and China, but have ever seen a liberal group do the same.

That could be because liberals don't tend to organize into hate groups and thus don't try to demonize entire religions, much less bully children based on bigotry and ignorance.

 
 
bugsy
5.2.11  bugsy  replied to  Skrekk @5.2.10    2 weeks ago
liberals don't tend to organize into hate groups

That's funny. Maybe you have never heard of Black Panthers and Antifa? You can google them if you like.

 
 
Skrekk
5.2.12  Skrekk  replied to  bugsy @5.2.11    2 weeks ago
Maybe you have never heard of Black Panthers and Antifa?

Neither one is a hate group, and the Black Panthers don't even exist anymore.

However I'm not surprised that you dislike people who are actively opposed to fascism.

 
 
MrFrost
5.2.13  MrFrost  replied to  bugsy @5.2.11    2 weeks ago
Antifa?

You don't like Antifa? So you are pro fascist? Hey, I don't agree with their violence at all, but I do agree with their message. Fascism SUCKS. 

 
 
Buzz of the Orient
5.2.14  Buzz of the Orient  replied to  MrFrost @5.2    one week ago
 
 
MrFrost
5.2.15  MrFrost  replied to  Buzz of the Orient @5.2.14    one week ago

Not a prayer...I won't read any of your seeds, nor post on them because you'll just flag anyone as, "off topic" if you don't agree with them. So again, no thanks. 

 
 
devangelical
5.2.16  devangelical  replied to  MrFrost @5.2.15    one week ago

probably has to or several people in green uniforms with stern faces come knocking

 
 
Tessylo
5.2.17  Tessylo  replied to  devangelical @5.2.16    one week ago

Giggle

 
 
Buzz of the Orient
5.2.18  Buzz of the Orient  replied to  MrFrost @5.2.15    one week ago

LOL. Your loss is my gain MISTER Frost.  As it happens, when you actually went OFF TOPIC I flagged you for it. The final decision was not mine, it was the moderator's, and obviously the moderator agreed.  Anyway, ignorance is bliss - now you can flag that as a "sweeping generalization". 

By the way, I won't miss you, so thank you. 

 
 
Tessylo
5.2.19  Tessylo  replied to  Buzz of the Orient @5.2.18    one week ago

No loss Buzz, no loss.

 
 
Buzz of the Orient
5.2.20  Buzz of the Orient  replied to  Tessylo @5.2.19    one week ago

Agreed, Tessylo. His staying off my seeds is no loss to me. 

 
 
Tessylo
5.2.21  Tessylo  replied to  Buzz of the Orient @5.2.20    one week ago

You misunderstand.  It's no loss staying away from your threads whatsoever 

 
 
Buzz of the Orient
5.2.22  Buzz of the Orient  replied to  Tessylo @5.2.21    one week ago

Than don't bother - don't trouble yourself looking at my photo essays, my movie articles, or anything I post. If I were capable of blocking you I would.  You're not looking at them is no loss to me, because "Frankly, my dear, I don't give a damn" (thank you, Rhett Butler).

 
 
Tessylo
5.2.23  Tessylo  replied to  Buzz of the Orient @5.2.22    one week ago

I don't bother Buzz, not at all.  No need to get your parties in a twist Buzz.  

What makes you think I have any interest in any of your threads?  The majority of which are anti-islam.

[delete]

 
 
MrFrost
5.2.24  MrFrost  replied to  Buzz of the Orient @5.2.22    one week ago
Than don't bother - don't trouble yourself looking at my photo essays, my movie articles, or anything I post.

And there is the problem Buzz, you alienate anyone that you don't agree with. Instead of having a rational debate, you slam people or offering a different point of view and if that isn't bad enough, you seek to silence their voices. Sorry, but when you do that, you are looking for an echo chamber that only supports what YOU have to say. That's not an environment that supports a healthy debate. 

I respect your opinion and your point of view, but I will not take part in your seeds given that you do not foster an environment where debate is welcomed. 

I will say no more on the subject, good day to you Sir. 

 
 
Kathleen/Butterfie
5.2.25  Kathleen/Butterfie  replied to  MrFrost @5.2.24    one week ago

Hi Frosty, 

I have to say something about this. 

Sometimes its not debate from some of these people, its just trolling. They are not looking for a debate, they are looking to just stir up trouble and waiting to see a reaction.  That I can do without, that is why I have told a few that I think it would be best to not engage.  I am not saying you were trolling, but some on here are. 

jmo.

 
 
Kathleen/Butterfie
5.2.26  Kathleen/Butterfie  replied to  Trout Giggles @5.2.2    one week ago

I guess this is how I look at it:

If I refuse to practice the Christian religion in the U.S. no big deal.

If I refuse to practice the Muslim religion in parts of the Middle East, I may have to fear for my life.

So I do see a difference in that regard.

 
 
Skrekk
5.2.27  Skrekk  replied to  Kathleen/Butterfie @5.2.26    one week ago
If I refuse to practice the Muslim religion in parts of the Middle East, I may have to fear for my life.

If you're gay in Russia, Uganda or the Republic of Georgia you have very good reason to fear for your life due to the rampant Christianity in those benighted shit hole countries.    This video is a good example of what Christians do when they aren't constrained by secular government, where Eastern Orthodox priests in the Republic of Georgia recently led a violent mob of 20,000 rabid Christians who were trying to stone to death 50 gay rights activists:

http://americablog.com/2013/05/priests-led-violent-mob-of-20000-that-attacked-small-group-of-gay-protester-in-former-soviet-georgia.html

And note that the Georgian government knows who the leaders and many of the perpetrators were but has done nothing to apprehend or charge them:

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/05/20/world/europe/georgian-officials-react-slowly-to-anti-gay-attack.html

And that's just one example.  American evangelicals not only have their own history of violence against gays but they've been supporting Uganda's "kill the gays" bill and many other extreme anti-gay bills around the world.    Heck, it wasn't that long ago that Christians in the US were lynching not just gays but also "witches", black folks, mixed-race couples, Jews, Mormons and even Catholic priests.

 
 
epistte
5.2.28  epistte  replied to  Skrekk @5.2.27    one week ago
And that's just one example.  American evangelicals not only have their own history of violence against gays but they've been supporting Uganda's "kill the gays" bill and many other extreme anti-gay bills around the world.    Heck, it wasn't that long ago that Christians in the US were lynching not just gays but also "witches", black folks, mixed-race couples, Jews, Mormons and even Catholic priests.

American evangelicals still trying to breach the wall of the separation of church and state with religious freedom bills and claims that hate crime prosecutions are a violation of their religious freedom. 

These fundamentalists are scum. Bring on the lions!

https://www.lc.org/Uploads/files/pdf/hatecrimes.pdf

 
 
Skrekk
5.2.29  Skrekk  replied to  epistte @5.2.28    one week ago

Thanks for that link!   What a hoot.

I like how these Christian-based hate groups like the AFA, FRC and Liberty Counsel will claim not to be hate groups while simultaneously hiding the lobbying and legal work they're doing overseas to reinstate or maintain criminal penalties against gays.    No surprise that these groups are also Islamophobic and explicitly oppose the 1st Amendment rights of Muslims.

 
 
sandy-2021492
5.2.30  sandy-2021492  replied to  Skrekk @5.2.27    one week ago

Our local newspaper has as a frequent guest columnist a local pastor.  Today's column was about how Hurricane Florence was God's way of trying to get our attention.  He says it's dangerous to say for sure that we know God's reasons for doing anything, but it just might be because of abortion, Hollywood, and not accepting God's word.

This Christian is blaming nonbelievers, and believers who believe differently from him, for a hurricane.  I'd say that's a form of bullying.

 
 
Skrekk
5.2.31  Skrekk  replied to  sandy-2021492 @5.2.30    one week ago

Wait a minute - I always thought it was Teh Gayz who were responsible for the sky demon's wrath.   Now you're saying we have to blame Hollywood and abortion too?

I do like the fact that the great sky demon practices collective punishment.    Very logical to drown a few infants because it opposes abortion.

 
 
sandy-2021492
5.2.32  sandy-2021492  replied to  Skrekk @5.2.31    one week ago

He doesn't quite come out and blame it on "the gays", but he does mention Sodom.  So, ya know...

 
 
epistte
5.2.33  epistte  replied to  sandy-2021492 @5.2.30    one week ago
Our local newspaper has as a frequent guest columnist a local pastor.  Today's column was about how Hurricane Florence was God's way of trying to get our attention.  He says it's dangerous to say for sure that we know God's reasons for doing anything, but it just might be because of abortion, Hollywood, and not accepting God's word. This Christian is blaming nonbelievers, and believers who believe differently from him, for a hurricane.  I'd say that's a form of bullying.

There used to be 2-3 people who wrote 2 op-ed letters per month that could have been confused with satire because of their extreme religiosity. The newspaper is failing and will likely fold in less than a year but their letters were always amusing when they were passed around the office. 

My extremely conservative Catholic (Opus Dei member) uncle posted a screed on Facebook on Thursday evening that hurricanes, tornadoes, wildfires, floods, and famine are the work of God because mandated prayer is not longer permitted in public school.   I was tempted to address his many fallacies but I am already the black sheep of the family so I passed.

For the record, as long as there are tests there will be prayer in public school.

 
 
sandy-2021492
5.2.34  sandy-2021492  replied to  epistte @5.2.33    one week ago

There's one nonbeliever who regularly trolls this pastor's articles.  I'm fairly sure it's a fake account, because it showed up after another account that made similar posts disappeared, and was presumably banned.  It's kinda funny, but it's sad that nobody, or very few people, seem to see anything wrong with blaming nonbelievers for a hurricane, but plenty of people see something wrong with calling out the guy blaming nonbelievers for a hurricane.

 
 
epistte
5.2.35  epistte  replied to  sandy-2021492 @5.2.34    one week ago
There's one nonbeliever who regularly trolls this pastor's articles.  I'm fairly sure it's a fake account, because it showed up after another account that made similar posts disappeared, and was presumably banned.  It's kinda funny, but it's sad that nobody, or very few people, seem to see anything wrong with blaming nonbelievers for a hurricane, but plenty of people see something wrong with calling out the guy blaming nonbelievers for a hurricane.

I used to respond to the letters in the newspaper's online forum until I was aked by the editor to stop because apparently my replies generated too much controversy.   I was as polite as I am here but still people were very offended. I never let on to the editor that we knew each other because my oldest sister was the circulation manager for their southern district and I had worked there part-time in high school and summers in college.

 
 
sandy-2021492
5.2.36  sandy-2021492  replied to  epistte @5.2.35    one week ago

We had one gentleman, a retired AF (IIRC) colonel, who used to write letters to the editor in support of separation of church and state, etc.  He was openly a nonbeliever, which is cause for comment in our community.  His letters were unfailingly polite and well-written.  He passed away some time ago, and I miss reading his letters.  The quality of letters to the editor since then have suffered greatly.

 
 
Skrekk
5.2.37  Skrekk  replied to  sandy-2021492 @5.2.36    one week ago

"Larry Robinson" seems like the kind of guy to write very lengthy and irate letters to his local paper.

 
 
charger 383
5.2.38  charger 383  replied to  sandy-2021492 @5.2.30    one week ago

He has been blaming more lately,  he often starts with something of local interest and changes it to a sermon    

 
 
sandy-2021492
5.2.39  sandy-2021492  replied to  charger 383 @5.2.38    one week ago

I don't usually read his column, but I did this time because I figured Florence would be my fault somehow (and yours, too, of course winking).  I expect it to be a sermon, because that's his thing, but I think you're right - he's been much more blamey lately.

 
 
devangelical
5.2.40  devangelical  replied to  epistte @5.2.33    one week ago
hurricanes, tornadoes, wildfires, floods, and famine are the work of God

Funny how hard it is for them to connect the God's wrath dots of natural disasters when the majority land on the religious heartland.

 
 
Krishna
5.2.41  Krishna  replied to  MrFrost @5.2    one week ago
Since 9/11/01, roughly 220 people have been killed by Muslim terrorists in the USA. In that same time frame, over 200,000 people have been murdered by fellow Americans that were NOT Muslims, (and if we want to break that number down, ~63% of Americans identify as Christian, which would mean well over 100,000 people have been killed by Christians in the USA, since 9/11/01).

There's a reason for that (see my comment #1.1.40)

 
 
Trout Giggles
5.2.42  Trout Giggles  replied to  epistte @5.2.33    one week ago
My extremely conservative Catholic (Opus Dei member) uncle posted a screed on Facebook on Thursday evening that hurricanes, tornadoes, wildfires, floods, and famine are the work of God because mandated prayer is not longer permitted in public school.  

He does realize that the prayer will be a protestant prayer, right?

I will never understand bible thumping Catholics.

 
 
epistte
5.2.43  epistte  replied to  Trout Giggles @5.2.42    one week ago
He does realize that the prayer will be a protestant prayer, right?

He's not what you would call a deep thinker.

I will never understand bible thumping Catholics.

Neither can I, but since I'm not a member of that club I stay away. 

 
 
lennylynx
5.3  lennylynx  replied to  bugsy @5    2 weeks ago

Why are you mocking belief in FSM by calling it idiotic?  You need to be more tolerant of people's beliefs. Happy

 
 
epistte
5.3.1  epistte  replied to  lennylynx @5.3    2 weeks ago
Why are you mocking belief in FSM by calling it idiotic?  You need to be more tolerant of people's beliefs.

Praise his great noodliness FSM. 

 
 
lennylynx
5.3.2  lennylynx  replied to  epistte @5.3.1    2 weeks ago

The Holy FSM Chronicles tell us we will be mocked and ridiculed for our belief, and we are! praying dude

 
 
Tessylo
5.3.3  Tessylo  replied to  epistte @5.3.1    2 weeks ago

Yum with meatballs and garlic bread please!

 
 
epistte
5.3.4  epistte  replied to  Tessylo @5.3.3    2 weeks ago

It's not a coincidence that pasta looks like DNA. 

https://goo.gl/images/Tpw85L

 
 
Tessylo
5.3.5  Tessylo  replied to  epistte @5.3.4    2 weeks ago

GiggleThat explains so much!

 
 
Gordy327
5.3.6  Gordy327  replied to  epistte @5.3.1    one week ago

RAMEN!

 
 
Trout Giggles
5.3.7  Trout Giggles  replied to  epistte @5.3.4    one week ago

I saw a good one on Face Book the other day showing the "metamorphosis" of pasta. It started with a shell then ended up as a bow tie. Funny as hell.

 
 
epistte
5.3.8  epistte  replied to  Trout Giggles @5.3.7    one week ago

I saw that the other day. I'm a member of a Pastafarian Facebook group.  They have some really good pasta recipes.

 
 
Skrekk
5.4  Skrekk  replied to  bugsy @5    2 weeks ago
I find it intriguing that when someone of the Islamic faith feels as if they are discriminated against, there is a horde of liberals to come to their defense and swear that Islam is exclusively a religion of peace...but if a Christian is persecuted in some way, that same horde give out a collective "meh, they had it coming anyway" response.

Please cite a credible example of liberals not opposing the persecution of Christians.

Sounds like liberals actually support the 1st Amendment but you don't.

 
 
bugsy
5.4.1  bugsy  replied to  Skrekk @5.4    2 weeks ago

Huh? What the hell are you talking about?

 
 
Dismayed Patriot
5.5  Dismayed Patriot  replied to  bugsy @5    2 weeks ago
I find it intriguing that when someone of the Islamic faith feels as if they are discriminated against, there is a horde of liberals to come to their defense and swear that Islam is exclusively a religion of peace

Utter nonsense. What I frequently witness are Christian fundamentalist attacks on Islam being countered by liberals and progressives, not with claims that Islam is a religion of peace, but that Christianity and Islam are mirrors of each other and that when a fundamentalist Christian points out a flaw about Islam they are often ignoring the four fingers pointing back at their own religion. So liberals and progressives are pointing out hypocrisy, not defending Islam.

I personally find Islam as infuriating as Christianity and don't want either pushed on my children as they grow up. I prefer a civil secular society where everyone gets to pick and practice whatever religion they want at home and in their churches, mosques and synagogues. Keep all religion out of public schools, court houses and our government and you'll find far fewer progressives pointing out the hypocrisy of one religion screaming for religious freedom while denying other faiths the same.

 
 
Skrekk
5.5.1  Skrekk  replied to  Dismayed Patriot @5.5    2 weeks ago
Keep all religion out of public schools, court houses and our government and you'll find far fewer progressives pointing out the hypocrisy of one religion screaming for religious freedom while denying other faiths the same.

Bingo.

 
 
Trout Giggles
5.5.2  Trout Giggles  replied to  Skrekk @5.5.1    2 weeks ago

Yahtzee!

 
 
Raven Wing
5.5.3  Raven Wing  replied to  Trout Giggles @5.5.2    one week ago
Yahtzee!

I love that game!  thumbs up

 
 
Kathleen/Butterfie
6  Kathleen/Butterfie    one week ago

Out of curiosity, would you have seeded an article if it was Christian students being bullied by Muslim students?

 
 
lennylynx
6.1  lennylynx  replied to  Kathleen/Butterfie @6    one week ago

Didn't get in enough fighting yesterday?  Happy

 
 
Kathleen/Butterfie
6.1.1  Kathleen/Butterfie  replied to  lennylynx @6.1    one week ago

Just having fun. Laugh

 
 
Tessylo
6.1.2  Tessylo  replied to  Kathleen/Butterfie @6.1.1    one week ago

So you're just having fun and no proof for your accusations.   Got it!

 
 
Kathleen/Butterfie
6.1.3  Kathleen/Butterfie  replied to  Tessylo @6.1.2    one week ago

I am sure with all of your posts, you are not having fun? Got it.

 
 
Tessylo
6.1.4  Tessylo  replied to  Kathleen/Butterfie @6.1.3    one week ago

That makes no sense.  I am having fun. I've yet to see you prove your accusations,  so there is that.

 
 
Kathleen/Butterfie
6.1.5  Kathleen/Butterfie  replied to  Tessylo @6.1.4    one week ago

It was not an accusation, it was a question if this were to happen. So I do not have to prove anything for that comment.

 
 
Tessylo
6.1.6  Tessylo  replied to  Kathleen/Butterfie @6.1.5    one week ago

True.  But that situation never happens, so there is that

 
 
Kathleen/Butterfie
6.1.7  Kathleen/Butterfie  replied to  Tessylo @6.1.6    one week ago

That's the problem, we would never know if it did. That was my point I as making to begin with.  

 
 
Skrekk
6.1.8  Skrekk  replied to  Kathleen/Butterfie @6.1.7    one week ago
That's the problem, we would never know if it did.

There's no doubt whatsoever that the Christian extremists here and around the US would be whining very loudly if an American kid were bullied for being a Christian.    Faux News would have non-stop coverage about it, and our Glorious Dotard would be irately tweeting about it.

 
 
Sunshine
6.2  Sunshine  replied to  Kathleen/Butterfie @6    one week ago

Good point...very rare to see the Islam faith being ridiculed, bullied, mocked, or humiliated for praying on NT.  

 
 
lennylynx
6.2.1  lennylynx  replied to  Sunshine @6.2    one week ago

Is that a head scarf you're wearing?  You could easily be mistaken for a Muslim you know! Wink

 
 
Sunshine
6.2.2  Sunshine  replied to  lennylynx @6.2.1    one week ago

Not understanding the relevance to my post about the constant Christian bashing on NT, but hey it is Friday and my brain is somewhere else.

Donut?

 
 
lennylynx
6.2.3  lennylynx  replied to  Sunshine @6.2.2    one week ago

Thank-you Sunshine!  

 
 
Krishna
6.2.4  Krishna  replied to  lennylynx @6.2.1    one week ago
Is that a head scarf you're wearing?

No-- she's probably just glad to see you!

 
 
Tessylo
6.3  Tessylo  replied to  Kathleen/Butterfie @6    one week ago

Please provide the citations where Christian students were bullied by Muslim students.  

 
 
lennylynx
6.3.1  lennylynx  replied to  Tessylo @6.3    one week ago

The only way I could see it happening is in a school with predominantly Muslim students where Christian student are a minority.  Is there such a school in America?  I doubt it but don't really know the answer.

 
 
Skrekk
6.3.2  Skrekk  replied to  lennylynx @6.3.1    one week ago
The only way I could see it happening is in a school with predominantly Muslim students where Christian student are a minority.  Is there such a school in America?

There may be schools like that in a few areas but it would still be very unlikely to happen since the Muslims students know that they're a persecuted minority in the general culture.    They thus won't have the arrogance so often exhibited by the Christian majority.

 
 
Kathleen/Butterfie
6.3.3  Kathleen/Butterfie  replied to  Skrekk @6.3.2    one week ago

Well, lets just say there was, I wonder if we all would see it posted. I doubt it.  I bet it happens in other countries for sure. If you want religious freedom all together, then you should no pick on one.  Funny... I never hear some of you say anything bad about other religions.

 
 
sandy-2021492
6.3.4  sandy-2021492  replied to  Kathleen/Butterfie @6.3.3    one week ago

You have a "Publish" button, you know. So if you see a credible article about Christian children being called terrorists, or Christian teachers having their classrooms vandalized because they're Christians, please do seed it to provide evidence for your thinly-veiled accusations. 

 
 
Kathleen/Butterfie
6.3.5  Kathleen/Butterfie  replied to  sandy-2021492 @6.3.4    one week ago

It was not a accusation,  it was a " what if " question.

I noticed you voted up a nasty comment to me, so I believe the debating is done between you and I.

I will draw the line.

 
 
sandy-2021492
6.3.6  sandy-2021492  replied to  Kathleen/Butterfie @6.3.5    one week ago

We all know when a question contains an accusation.  You know what you're doing, as evidenced by your reply to lenny. You just don't like being called out on it.

If it bothers you so much not to see Christians children being bullied, do something about it. You have the same seeding privileges we all do.

 
 
Tessylo
6.3.7  Tessylo  replied to  sandy-2021492 @6.3.6    one week ago

Clapping

 
 
Skrekk
6.3.8  Skrekk  replied to  Kathleen/Butterfie @6.3.3    one week ago
Funny... I never hear some of you say anything bad about other religions.

That's probably because you don't participate in those discussions but I know I've made comments about how the Hasidim abusively treat women and LGBT folks.    In general I don't see much difference between the three main Abrahamic cults in that regard.

Also note that I live in the US where Christianity is dominant and is thus the primary superstition which causes problems and hinders liberty here.

 
 
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