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Retired Army Gen. Stanley McChrystal: President Donald Trump immoral, doesn't tell the truth

  

Category:  Op/Ed

Via:  johnrussell  •  6 years ago  •  61 comments

 Retired Army Gen. Stanley McChrystal: President Donald Trump immoral, doesn't tell the truth
“I don’t think he tells the truth,” McChrystal said in an exclusive interview on “This Week” when asked by Co-Anchor Martha Raddatz if he believes the president is a liar. “Is Trump immoral, in your view?” Raddatz asked. “I think he is,” he said.

S E E D E D   C O N T E N T



abcnews.go.com

Retired Army Gen. Stanley McChrystal: President Donald Trump immoral, doesn't tell the truth


The former top commander of U.S. and international forces in Afghanistan , retired four-star Army Gen. Stanley McChrystal, criticized President Donald Trump 's behavior and handling of the presidency, saying the commander-in-chief is dishonest and immoral.

“I don’t think he tells the truth,” McChrystal said in an exclusive interview on “This Week” when asked by Co-Anchor Martha Raddatz if he believes the president is a liar.

“Is Trump immoral, in your view?” Raddatz asked.

“I think he is,” he said.

McChrystal said he couldn't tell any of Trump's supporters "that they are wrong," but added, "What I would ask every American to do is ... stand in front of that mirror and say, 'What are we about? Am I really willing to throw away or ignore some of the things that people do that are -- are pretty unacceptable normally just because they accomplish certain other things that we might like?'

"If we want to be governed by someone we wouldn't do a business deal with because their -- their background is so shady, if we're willing to do that, then that's in conflict with who I think we are. And so I think it's necessary at those times to take a stand."

McChrystal, a 34-year veteran of the U.S. Army, served as the head of the Joint Special Operations Command from 2003 to 2008 and later assumed command of all international forces in Afghanistan in June 2009. President Barack Obama relieved McChrystal of that command in June 2010 after Rolling Stone published controversial comments McChrystal made in an interview about the administration. In doing so, Obama still praised the general's "deep intelligence" and "love of the country."


stanley-mcchrystal-gty-jpo-181229_hpMain Paula Bronstein/Getty Images, FILE

Commander General Stanley A. McChrystal sits in a helicopter after a lengthy conference meeting with military officials at the forward operating base (FOB) Walton, outside of Kandahar, Afghanistan, Oct. 7, 2009. more +

McChrystal, who recently published a book on leadership styles throughout history called, “Leaders: Myth and Reality,” criticized Trump for not embodying effective leadership.

“The military talks about would they come for you. And what that means is if you're put into a difficult military situation, would that leader sacrifice himself, put himself and others at risk to come for you? I have to believe that the people I'm working for would do that, whether we disagree on a lot of other things. I'm not convinced from the behavior that I've seen that that's the case here,” said McChrystal.

He also cautioned anyone who might fill the vacancy left by Defense Secretary James Mattis’ departure, to consider if their values sufficiently align with those of the president.

"I think maybe it causes the American people to take pause and say, wait a minute, if we have someone who is as selfless and as committed as Jim Mattis resign his position, walking away from all the responsibility he feels for every service member in our forces and he does so in a public way like that, we ought to stop and say, 'OK, why did he do it?,'" McChrystal said on "This Week."

“I would ask [potential candidates] to look in the mirror and ask them if they can get comfortable enough with President Trump's approach to governance, how he conducts himself with his values and with his worldview to be truly loyal to him as a commander in chief and going forward,” McChrystal said. “If there's too much of a disconnect then I would tell him I think it’s -- it would be a bad foundation upon which to try to build a successful partnership at that job.”

McChrystal said he would not take a job in the Trump administration if he were asked.

"I think it's important for me to work for people who I think are basically honest, who tell the truth as best they know it," he said. "I'm very tolerant of people who make mistakes because I make so many of them -- and I've been around leaders who've made mistakes ... but through all of them, I almost never saw people trying to get it wrong. And I almost never saw people who were openly disingenuous on things."

He also disagreed with Trump’s approach to his visit to Iraq last week to address troops, saying the president was wrong to politicize a usually non-political occasion. In addition to talking extensively about domestic political issues in his speech to troops, Trump autographed troops' “Make America Great Again” hats. The president said in a tweet that the hats were not provided by the White House.


trump-iraq-speech-02-gty-jc-181226_hpEmb Saul Loeb/AFP/Getty Images

President Donald Trump and first lady Melania Trump arrive to speak to members of the U.S. military during an unannounced trip to Al Asad Air Base in Iraq on Dec. 26, 2018. more +

McChrystal said he understood why many young troops would want signed memorabilia from the president, comparing it to meeting a celebrity, but also warned that it “violated the spirit” of the military code and that the military’s apolitical status should be preserved.

“If we encourage young military members to be Republicans or Democrats or anything particular, you start to create schisms in an infantry platoon,” McChrystal told Raddatz on "This Week."

“I never knew who was a Democrat or Republican and even when we were generals, when you got in a room, you never talked about politics because it was just considered bad form," he said. "I think if we allow it or encourage it, I think we are going to create something that could be a slippery slope.”

McChrystal also disagreed with Trump's announcement to withdraw U.S. troops from Syria , warning it would lead to "greater instability" in the Middle East.

"What difference does it make -- does it really make, if those 2,000 U.S. forces leave?" Raddatz asked.

“If you pull American influence out, you're likely to have greater instability and of course it'll be much more difficult for the United States to try to push events in any direction. There is an argument that says we just pull up our stuff, go home, let the region run itself. That has not done well for the last 50 or 60 years,” McChrystal said.

In announcing the withdrawal from Syria earlier this month, Trump touted victory over the Islamic State, or ISIS , there, declaring, “We have defeated ISIS in Syria.”

McChrystal disagreed, citing the continued threat of ISIS’ ideology.

“I don't believe ISIS is defeated,” McChrystal said. “I think ISIS is as much an idea as it is a number of ISIS fighters. There's a lot of intelligence that says there are actually more ISIS fighters around the world now than there were a couple of years ago.”


marines-syria-02-ht-jc-171130_hpMain_2_4 Zachery C. Laning/U.S. Marine Corps, FILE

U.S. Marines with the 11th Marine Expeditionary Unit carry rounds to an M777 Howitzer gun line in preparation for fire missions in northern Syria as part of Combined Joint Task Force - Operation Inherent Resolve, Mar. 21, 2017. more +

ABC News has also reported that Trump plans to reduce U.S. forces in Afghanistan by half, about 7,000 troops. In a statement to Bloomberg Friday, Garrett Marquis, a spokesperson for the National Security Council said Trump "has not made a determination to" to withdraw troops from Afghanistan or "directed the Department of Defense to begin the process of withdrawing" troops. Marquis did not respond when ABC News requested further comment.

"Do you see that as a problem?" Raddatz asked McChrystal.

“I think the great mistake in the president's leaked guidance is that just when we were starting to sit down with the Taliban , just we were starting to begin negotiations, he basically traded away the biggest leverage point we have. If you tell the Taliban that we are absolutely leaving on a date ... their incentives to try to cut a deal dropped dramatically,” McChrystal said.

McChrystal added that the decision could have a lasting impact on the trust in the alliance between the United States and the democratically-elected Afghan government it supports.

“Of course I was worried about the confidence of the Afghan people because at the end of the day, that's what determines who wins in Afghanistan,” McChrystal said. “And I think we probably rocked them -- we rocked them in their belief that we are allies that can be counted on.”


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JohnRussell
Professor Principal
1  seeder  JohnRussell    6 years ago

Occasionally one of the generals will step up and give the unvarnished truth.

The continuance of people supporting someone like Trump is a cancer on our society.

 
 
 
Nowhere Man
Junior Guide
1.2  Nowhere Man  replied to  JohnRussell @1    5 years ago
Occasionally one of the generals will step up and give the unvarnished truth.

So, was he telling the truth when speaking out when Obama fired him? You had a completely different opinion of him when that was happening......

So he wasn't then, but he is now, when what he says happens to agree with your viewpoint....

Which makes your opinion as worthless as ever.....

I guess he doesn't like politicians..... of any stripe....

And more important, they don't like him....

 
 
 
Dean Moriarty
Professor Quiet
2  Dean Moriarty    6 years ago

If are are to break the grips of the military industrial complex Eisenhower warned us about draining the McChrystal’s from the swamp is the first step. 

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
2.1  seeder  JohnRussell  replied to  Dean Moriarty @2    6 years ago

You don't have to be a brain surgeon or a four star general to know that Trump is a habitual liar who doesn't have a moral bone in his body.

It is highly amusing to see someone offer Trump up as an improvement over "the swamp". He is the most corrupt president in US history.

 
 
 
lennylynx
Sophomore Quiet
2.1.1  lennylynx  replied to  JohnRussell @2.1    6 years ago

President Trump embodies the swamp like no other politician ever has, the most corrupt by far.  What the right means by 'the swamp,' is the Democratic party.

 
 
 
Don Overton
Sophomore Quiet
2.2  Don Overton  replied to  Dean Moriarty @2    5 years ago

Uh no he didn't, context context

 
 
 
Nowhere Man
Junior Guide
2.2.1  Nowhere Man  replied to  Don Overton @2.2    5 years ago
Uh no he didn't, context context

uhhh, who didn't what? (a bit cryptic don't'cha think?)

 
 
 
Hal A. Lujah
Professor Guide
3  Hal A. Lujah    6 years ago

He also cautioned anyone who might fill the vacancy left by Defense Secretary James Mattis’ departure, to consider if their values sufficiently align with those of the president.

Like Flynn?  A shining example of what happens when you marry the military with the Trump mindset.

 
 
 
Colour Me Free
Senior Quiet
4  Colour Me Free    6 years ago
“I don't believe ISIS is defeated,” McChrystal said. “I think ISIS is as much an idea as it is a number of ISIS fighters. There's a lot of intelligence that says there are actually more ISIS fighters around the world now than there were a couple of years ago.”

If one is to carefully read - I mean very carefully now, take out the cheater readers … the president tweeted Daesh is defeated in Syria .. his comment made no mention of the world nor ideology --- I do not agree with the withdrawal of troops from Syria at this time .. but not because of Daesh.....  I am concerned about a certain NATO ally....

“I think the great mistake in the president's leaked guidance is that just when we were starting to sit down with the Taliban, just we were starting to begin negotiations, he basically traded away the biggest leverage point we have. If you tell the Taliban that we are absolutely leaving on a date ... their incentives to try to cut a deal dropped dramatically,” McChrystal said.

McChrystal added that the decision could have a lasting impact on the trust in the alliance between the United States and the democratically-elected Afghan government it supports.

“Of course I was worried about the confidence of the Afghan people because at the end of the day, that's what determines who wins in Afghanistan,” McChrystal said. “And I think we probably rocked them -- we rocked them in their belief that we are allies that can be counted on.”

Agreed .. Generals said the same thing about the date of withdrawal from Iraq .. give the terrorists a date - they just sit back and wait for the day the American troops go home to exact the next round of terroristic behavior …. please do not bring up the whole but but but the SOFA .. that is crap and all know it - Obama and Trump both campaigned on bringing troops home .. both set dates of withdrawal … but only one individual did it 'correctly' … ?  only one of them risked the belief of the people that 'we' are their allies?  Iraq was told Daesh is your problem, and the US would not even provide air support - because the former administration desired regime change .. as long as Maliki was in power .. Daesh was Iraq's problem … the 'ally' that broke the country turned its back on the government and the people...

I agree that Trump is not the best foreign policy president .. but to criticize him for taking a move from the Obama play book is disingenuous at best - 

As far as the Presidents visit to the troops … for Pete's sake a month ago everyone was wailing and gnashing teeth that the Trump did not, has not, was not planning to visit the troops … now he has ruined the military for what (?) the next hundred years by making a visit?  now the military will become suddenly partisan?    .............. Ignorance definitely knows NO bounds when it comes to bitching.....

Soapbox has been put away!

 
 
 
igknorantzrulz
PhD Quiet
5  igknorantzrulz    6 years ago

The General summed up and stated in an adult like mature mannerism, what many of US have been stating, for quite some time,

Trumps a FCKN Liar, and does not posses the moral and ethical fortitude, of that of an impregnated homeless prostitute sweating bullets while flagrantly flopping his flatulence sourced fragrance, as Mr. Always LIES, even while in bed, sitting up, isn't FUnny in his dry humor womanesk violating vigar that leaves many, looking for a reason, as this "man's" bahavior, is something to be studied for decades to come, as his support has slowly dwindled, and it is truly a mystery, cause, as the milk of magnessium man bumbles and fumbles, more than his reputation is also about to evaporates, yet so many still defend this reALITY KNUMEDDown, Orange clown car passenger, as he honks and blows

his horn, at the same people that said, i actually feel a little bad about our President, ot the United States, but not nearly as bad as Trump  and his piece of Trash, family, dfriends, and Administration, (Excluding Baron and a brother or another) cuz the PIECE OF TRASH, needs a bag, a plastic bagat that, and hopefully it, or something else, asphyxiates all that is wrong with our President & sum of his posse N fam as well. Mutherz milk has long sinces evaporated, so we must wonder, 

Y, he's still suckin from his wet law suits him swell, till the swelling GOES DOWN, his and ho that is definitely required, if one wishes to follow as low as this as clown Ken Go, because ive never seen our UNITED STATES of America, look so damn LOW.

Way to Go Trump supporters, Happy Fkn New Year, careful of the pap smear, and his other bathroom habits as well, asz U own the dump[ster fire, currently putting US All

through

the Ringer, but Knox starring Johnny this time a

round

GO BIRDS, flush Orang Turds

named Don

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
7  TᵢG    5 years ago
“I don’t think he tells the truth, ...”

LOL, ending the year on a profound understatement.

A more serious concern is that Trump does not seem to listen to advice which counters his predisposed views.   The lying is old news, cheating at Golf is irrelevant, obsession with a wall is largely meaningless, but having a stubborn, less-than-brilliant, narcissist as PotUS (as CiC) is not merely grounds for criticism — it is dangerous.

 
 
 
lennylynx
Sophomore Quiet
7.1  lennylynx  replied to  TᵢG @7    5 years ago
"...less-than-brilliant..."

Talk about understatements! jrSmiley_2_smiley_image.png  Happy New Year Tiggy.

 
 
 
igknorantzrulz
PhD Quiet
7.2  igknorantzrulz  replied to  TᵢG @7    5 years ago
A more serious concern is that Trump does not seem to listen to advice which counters his predisposed views.

unless it is 

putin directly into his head

 
 
 
Nowhere Man
Junior Guide
7.3  Nowhere Man  replied to  TᵢG @7    5 years ago
but having a stubborn, less-than-brilliant, narcissist as PotUS (as CiC) is not merely grounds for criticism — it is dangerous.

Yeah, and this is two in a row.....

It reflects more on the citizens who elect these losers than them....

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
7.3.1  seeder  JohnRussell  replied to  Nowhere Man @7.3    5 years ago

“General” McChrystal got fired like a dog by Obama. Last assignment a total bust. Known for big, dumb mouth. Hillary lover!

Donald J. Trump added,

Laura Ingraham Verified account   @ IngrahamAngle
Media Didn’t Like McChrystal Until He Started Bashing Trump https://www. lifezette.com/2018/12/media- didnt-like-mcchrystal-until-he-started-bashing-trump/   via @ LifeZette
7:32 AM - 1 Jan 2019
You must be so proud NM.
In order to be a Donald Trump defender , you have to ignore everything he says. In other words, hide one's head in the sand.
 
 
 
Nowhere Man
Junior Guide
7.3.2  Nowhere Man  replied to  JohnRussell @7.3.1    5 years ago

Since when have you found me defending T-rump?

Please point it out!

We all would like to see it...

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
7.3.3  TᵢG  replied to  Nowhere Man @7.3.2    5 years ago

You know how this works sometimes NWM.   If one does not take an extreme partisan position, one is oft presumed to be in support of the opposing partisan position.

Applying this to Trump, sometimes downplaying criticism such as cheating at Golf is translated into support for Trump.   Hell, even if one's negative criticism of Trump is not sufficiently harsh one is presumed, by some, to be a supporter.

jrSmiley_82_smiley_image.gif

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
7.3.4  seeder  JohnRussell  replied to  TᵢG @7.3.3    5 years ago
You know how this works sometimes NWM.   If one does not take an extreme partisan position

Opposing Donald Trump is not an "extreme partisan position" it is common sense and patriotism. If you think it is extreme partisanship maybe there is something wrong with your thoughts on the matter.

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
7.3.5  seeder  JohnRussell  replied to  Nowhere Man @7.3.2    5 years ago
Since when have you found me defending T-rump?

You regularly find fault with those who criticize or yes, attack, Trump.  I've never seen you comment negatively on the pos.

Give us a link or two to a comment where you blasted the idiot.

 
 
 
igknorantzrulz
PhD Quiet
7.3.6  igknorantzrulz  replied to  Nowhere Man @7.3    5 years ago
the citizens who elect these losers than them....

the ignorance in this country is off the charts,

like Gilligan's Island perhaps.

I don't know, Ginger ? Maryanne ?

just No Way N Howel !

Dumb FUX "news" and Russian trolls, spreaders of sheet, to A wholes

lotz of peoples ,       who can't see through the broader spectrum than that of an obscured peep whole, with eyes wide shut, brought US All this abomination, that did follow the Obamanation.

.

Putin played the already so primed and prepared public, practicing psychological Love War, 

cuz, alls fair in both, yet not always related , or relative.

pathetic, that by pols on both sides, yet far more evident in the GOP, we see, the dumbing down of America.

Not sure how more don't see, we ALL Lose in this scenario.

.

I'm Putin the blame squarely on the folks at Dumb Fux "news", Putin's Russia, and the GOP, who have for so many years blocked and lied about the TRUTH,

and thus the result

Trump.            WTF !

.

Now, people are completely confused ?? as to what is actually TRUE

Their Ignorance for one.

Critical thinking skills, would leave those that distribute the lies, standing at attention at the detention

center of the universe.

Hopefully Trump falls into his golden thrown out the pipe dream window of miss opportunity, and unclogs our made sewer 

grate again, from the top down 

as that is where the largest POS is sitting.

Flush him down and out like water down a water down spoutin bigly tremendous words along the way, as they r all he can try and say

 
 
 
dave-2693993
Junior Quiet
7.3.7  dave-2693993  replied to  TᵢG @7.3.3    5 years ago
If one does not take an extreme partisan position, one is oft presumed to be in support of the opposing partisan position.

Which drives me crazy. This extremism drives me over the tourettes edge, which I almost did with an acronym recently.

Instead of ones words taken as they are, some weird translation occurs resulting in some ideological mis interpretation of what one actually states.

 
 
 
Nowhere Man
Junior Guide
7.3.8  Nowhere Man  replied to  TᵢG @7.3.3    5 years ago
You know how this works sometimes NWM.   If one does not take an extreme partisan position, one is oft presumed to be in support of the opposing partisan position.

Yes, unfortunately, there are those that wish us to turn off our brains when considering the issues before us.....

And then call it patriotism...... {chuckle}

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
7.3.9  seeder  JohnRussell  replied to  dave-2693993 @7.3.7    5 years ago

Opposing Donald Trump and saying so is not "extremism".

I'm coming to the conclusion that there is something wrong with a lot of people on this forum.

 
 
 
igknorantzrulz
PhD Quiet
7.3.10  igknorantzrulz  replied to  dave-2693993 @7.3.7    5 years ago
Instead of ones words taken as they are, some weird translation occurs resulting in some ideological mis interpretation of what one actually states.

Y watt ever could ewe mean...

I can't even spell acronyms 

i think 

Trump is worthy of some heavy criticism,

in fact, i really have difficulty understanding how people are still defending and giving a pass to the Orange as phault, as he's cemented his disatrous place in our history, while continuing, brick by brick, to be some humpty dumpty dik, who can't fall off his damn wall...

hey Donny, where s WALDO es money gonna come from, cause El Presidente Fox, say Mexico and gonna pay for NO FCKN WALL

and he don' tr need no stinkin badges either, damnet !

 
 
 
igknorantzrulz
PhD Quiet
7.3.11  igknorantzrulz  replied to  JohnRussell @7.3.9    5 years ago
I'm coming to the conclusion that there is something wrong with a lot of people on this forum.

u no,

eye ken here ewe

 
 
 
Nowhere Man
Junior Guide
7.3.12  Nowhere Man  replied to  JohnRussell @7.3.5    5 years ago
You regularly find fault with those who criticize or yes, attack, Trump. 

Yes I do, But I also did such when Obama was in office, when Bush was in office, When Billy Boy was in office.....

I've never seen you comment negatively on the pos.

Then you haven't been paying attention, of course. Might it be that my criticism is so adroit that you missed it?

Give us a link or two to a comment where you blasted the idiot.

{chuckle} ahhh, the typical automatic response when someone makes a statement that is so out there as to be completely without merit. Demand that the accused prove the accusers assertion..... Turnaboutism..... The absolute proof that an argument made by the attacker has failed. (in this case, before it even got started)

At times John, you can be damned funny....

 
 
 
dave-2693993
Junior Quiet
7.3.13  dave-2693993  replied to  JohnRussell @7.3.9    5 years ago

I agree with what you say.

However, your comment has nothing to do with my comment to TiG which reinforces my comment.

As long as that differentiation is clear, I am fine with your response to me.

 
 
 
dave-2693993
Junior Quiet
7.3.14  dave-2693993  replied to  igknorantzrulz @7.3.10    5 years ago

You are doing it too.

I replied to TiG.

What did TiG say?

Here is the acronym in question and it was applied to ALL POS politicians.  Trump is just the current one of all of them as the as the pendulum swings further and further from stability.

I HATE all those GDCSPOSMFRs.

If help is needed interpreting I'll be glad to send a PN.

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
7.3.15  seeder  JohnRussell  replied to  Nowhere Man @7.3.12    5 years ago

Comparing a psychologically malfunctioning individual like Trump to Obama or Clinton, or George W, is ridiculous.  Trump says something preposterously stupid or untrue EVERY DAY, usually multiple times every day.  There is no comparison between his malfunctions and any other president, which I suspect you well know.

Plus he's a criminal. He committed tax fraud, and I'm sure numerous other financial crimes. He had his daughter out conning people into buying condos in Trump developments.

Fraud, cheat. liar, ignoramus. Yeah, he's got a lot going for him.

 
 
 
Hal A. Lujah
Professor Guide
7.3.16  Hal A. Lujah  replied to  JohnRussell @7.3.4    5 years ago

Trump apologetics are inexplicably on the rise here.  It’s as if the frogs can’t tell that the water is starting to boil.  The Trump situation continually spirals downward, because that is the only direction it is capable of.

If Trump were to do something positive, I would give him the credit.  Unfortunately, he is incapable of doing anything that doesn’t involve spite, dog whistle racism, cronyism, or flat out lies.

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
7.3.17  TᵢG  replied to  dave-2693993 @7.3.7    5 years ago
Which drives me crazy.

Me too.   A major peeve of mine - many years.   So much so that I largely avoid partisan topics. 

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
7.3.18  seeder  JohnRussell  replied to  dave-2693993 @7.3.13    5 years ago

There are people here, and everywhere , who do the see no evil, hear no evil, speak no evil, routine when it comes to Trump. It's comical.

The idea that this travesty can be compared to previous politicians or previous administrations is a sick joke.

It is true though, that there are people who prefer to pretend it's normal enough that it's not a big deal.  Trump enablers.

 
 
 
dave-2693993
Junior Quiet
7.3.19  dave-2693993  replied to  TᵢG @7.3.17    5 years ago
Me too.   A major peeve of mine - many years.   So much so that I largely avoid partisan topics. 

Otherwise, it is easy to find oneself in a battle words about something one never said.

Life is too short.

 
 
 
dave-2693993
Junior Quiet
7.3.20  dave-2693993  replied to  JohnRussell @7.3.18    5 years ago
There are people here, and everywhere , who do the see no evil, hear no evil, speak no evil, routine when it comes to Trump. It's comical.

The idea that this travesty can be compared to previous politicians or previous administrations is a sick joke.

It is true though, that there are people who prefer to pretend it's normal enough that it's not a big deal.  Trump enablers.

Okay, question.

What are your definitions of?

The idea that this travesty can be compared to previous politicians or previous administrations is a sick joke.

and

It is true though, that there are people who prefer to pretend it's normal enough that it's not a big deal.  Trump enablers.

I HATE all of them and hate is a reserved word for me, yet they all get that label from me.

Please, real me in so I can see past the hate and see your perspective.

 
 
 
lennylynx
Sophomore Quiet
7.3.21  lennylynx  replied to  JohnRussell @7.3.18    5 years ago
"...there are people who prefer to pretend it's normal enough that it's not a big deal."

Those are the ones who drive me batty.  The Trumpists are irredeemable. [deleted]

But the ones who try to be 'centrist' when it comes to Trump, decent people who mean no harm, who just want everyone to get along?  They seem blissfully unaware of the absolute horror show playing out right before our eyes.  Those are the ones you just want to grab by the shoulders and shake, while screaming: "What the fuck is WRONG with you!!"

 
 
 
dave-2693993
Junior Quiet
7.3.22  dave-2693993  replied to  lennylynx @7.3.21    5 years ago
But the ones who try to be 'centrist' when it comes to Trump, decent people who mean no harm, who just want everyone to get along? 

That is another statement I don't understand. WTH is that?

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
7.3.23  seeder  JohnRussell  replied to  dave-2693993 @7.3.22    5 years ago

I think his comment is pretty straightforward.

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
7.3.24  TᵢG  replied to  dave-2693993 @7.3.19    5 years ago
Otherwise, it is easy to find oneself in a battle words about something one never said.

Agreed.   I find that much of my time involves reigning in extrapolations, presumptions and malformed interpretations (e.g. cherry-picking) instead of engaging in the actual debate.

 
 
 
dave-2693993
Junior Quiet
7.3.26  dave-2693993  replied to  JohnRussell @7.3.23    5 years ago

It is straightforward, but to who?

Can someone give me an example? I don't watch tv, I hate all politicians that I am aware of making the news and to be honest, I am in a pretty disagreeable mood because of politicians.

So, from my perspective I am having a hard time imagining anyone who is "facilitating" WTH is going on in DC without lighting their hair on fire.

Seriously, did anyone actually notice the mid-term results? A lot of seats changed  without fighting in the streets revolution. We have a system. It is up to us to use it.

 
 
 
dave-2693993
Junior Quiet
7.3.27  dave-2693993  replied to  TᵢG @7.3.24    5 years ago

Yes, discussions quickly go off the rails from the actual point of discussion.

 
 
 
dave-2693993
Junior Quiet
7.3.28  dave-2693993  replied to  dave-2693993 @7.3.26    5 years ago
So, from my perspective I am having a hard time imagining anyone who is "facilitating" WTH is going on in DC without lighting their hair on fire.

Not a good sentence.

Please give what would be considered everyday examples of everyday people facilitating what is going on in DC, when these folks are not in agreement with things happening in the administration, yet still work within the system without tactics. 

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
7.3.32  TᵢG  replied to  JohnRussell @7.3.4    5 years ago
Opposing Donald Trump is not an "extreme partisan position" it is common sense and patriotism.

I did not write that opposing Trump is -in itself- extreme.   I wrote this:

TiG @7.3.3 If one does not take an extreme partisan position, one is oft presumed to be in support of the opposing partisan position.

In other words, when someone finds it to be counter-productive for people to dwell on stupid, insignificant negatives such as Trump cheating at Golf it is extreme partisanship to leap to the conclusion that the person supports Trump.   That is blind partisanship and it is counter-productive.

Trump has all sorts of negatives.   It is tactically dumb to dwell on the little things.   Doing so diminishes the credibility of the real criticism.   You never seem to recognize this basic fact of political discourse.   No need to fabricate 'big issues' from little ones - Trump voluntarily delivers genuine big issues because he has no filter on his mouth.

 
 
 
Nowhere Man
Junior Guide
7.3.33  Nowhere Man  replied to  TᵢG @7.3.32    5 years ago
Trump has all sorts of negatives.   It is tactically dumb to dwell on the little things.   Doing so diminishes the credibility of the real criticism.   You never seem to recognize this basic fact of political discourse.   No need to fabricate 'big issues' from little ones - Trump voluntarily delivers genuine big issues because he has no filter on his mouth.

Couldn't have said it any better myself, what the "Mountain of Trash" purveyors are successfully doing is masking the real issues of T-rump that need to be dealt with in a vain attempt to justify their hate...... (thereby helping him immensely rather than doing any real damage)

AS I've said, many times before, it's the gift that keeps giving.

And it isn't worth a serious debate.....

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
7.3.34  TᵢG  replied to  Nowhere Man @7.3.33    5 years ago
what the "Mountain of Trash" purveyors are successfully doing is masking the real issues of T-rump that need to be dealt with in a vain attempt to justify their hate...... (thereby helping him immensely rather than doing any real damage)

Yes!   Thank you NWM.   Now how can we communicate that (seemingly obvious) fact to those who portray others who do NOT support Trump as Trump supporters simply for being practical and reasonable?

 
 
 
Nowhere Man
Junior Guide
7.3.35  Nowhere Man  replied to  TᵢG @7.3.34    5 years ago
Now how can we communicate that (seemingly obvious) fact to those who portray others who do NOT support Trump as Trump supporters simply for being practical and reasonable?

I wish I knew my friend, they just aren't in the listening mode. Their anger is that great....

Been trying for the last decade, but since I'm a conservative & libertarian, (none of them know what that really means) I get pigeonholed before I can bring any real reasoning to the table.....

Classic Liberal is a term they just don't understand either. So I'm their professed enemy, heck I'm convinced that any thinking reasoning person is their enemy, so I don't even bother anymore....

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
8  seeder  JohnRussell    5 years ago
_v=1535979535
7.3.25 WallyW replied to  JohnRussell @ 7.3.18   54 minutes ago

Oh, you're just politically biased and mad because your candidate lost. The Clintons were much more corrupt liars than Trump could ever think of being.

-----------------
 EXHIBIT A
 

 
 
 
igknorantzrulz
PhD Quiet
8.1  igknorantzrulz  replied to  JohnRussell @8    5 years ago

i'd say,

you nailed that.

 
 
 
Paula Bartholomew
Professor Participates
9  Paula Bartholomew    5 years ago

Tell us something we didn't already know General.

 
 

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