He lures alleged child predators and shames them on Facebook. Now one of his targets is dead.
S E E D E D C O N T E N T
On a cool evening in October, Alain Malcolm, 20, walked into a vacant two-story colonial house in Bristol, Connecticut. Two members of a local internet vigilante group — who regularly try to expose and shame alleged child predators they entice online — were waiting for him.
Malcolm was tall and handsome. The oldest son of Jamaican immigrants , he wholly subscribed to the idea of the American dream. In high school, Malcolm was vice president of the Future Business Leaders of America club, assistant captain of the tennis and swim teams and a member of the student council and Model United Nations. He started a social marketing business at 15.
After graduating in 2016, Malcolm filled his Instagram and Facebook feeds with photos of New York high-rises, bathroom selfies in three-piece suits and links to news articles in which he was featured. He went to community college while working as a junior buyer for a local circuit-board manufacturer and was the subject of a Connecticut Public Television series that profiled recent high school graduates. Earlier this year, he was named one of Litchfield County’s 40 Leaders Under 40.
Alain Malcolm's entry in his high school yearbook. Ron Antonelli / for NBC News Malcolm was also gay, which was difficult growing up in a religious family in Torrington, a sleepy former mill town in the northwest part of the state, friends said.
“It’s not easy to be black, Jamaican, a Jehovah’s Witness and gay in Torrington, Connecticut,” said Allie Morrissey, a friend of Malcolm’s.
Starting in high school, Malcolm used apps like Tinder and Grindr to meet men from around the state, friends said. On that October night, he had come to Bristol to meet someone younger, purportedly a 14-year-old boy “going on 15,” according to a video posted by the digital vigilante group known as POPSquad.
When Malcolm arrived, he found that there was no boy — there was only POPSquad. For the 126th time in two years, the group — an acronym for Prey on Predators — had catfished a man on the internet, posing as an underage teen on hookup apps and luring him into a meetup, this time at an empty home whose owner allows it to be used for the group’s stings, according to POPSquad .
Like the others before him, Malcolm was greeted by Shane Erdmann, 31, better known by his alias “Incognito,” who questioned and berated Malcolm as the camera rolled. (The entire encounter was posted on Facebook the next day, though it was later removed. NBC News spoke to three people who watched it — two friends of Malcolm’s and one POPSquad fan — and described its contents.)
Confronting Malcolm with copies of the alleged sexual online messages sent to a POPSquad member, Erdmann asked: Why had Malcolm come? What disgusting things was he planning to do? What would his family think?
“I don’t have anything to live for,” Malcolm said as he stared at the ground.
Although his targets may initially believe otherwise, Erdmann isn’t with the police, and Malcolm wasn’t required to talk with POPSquad. As Malcolm walked to his car, Erdmann followed to film his license plate, reading the numbers aloud, “for the camera,” Erdmann said.
“Your family is going to see this. How do you feel?” Erdmann asked, according to people who saw the video.
Malcolm honked twice as he sped away, driving 30 minutes back home to his parents’ house in Torrington, where he hanged himself.
‘A MOB JUSTICE VIGILANTE MENTALITY’
POPSquad is one of dozens of similar online groups across the country unified by what they say is a mission to expose and shame people they allege are or could become sexual predators, according to an NBC News review of these groups on Facebook. The idea isn’t new — the NBC News “Dateline” show mined the same territory in its special series, “To Catch a Predator,” from 2004 to 2007. Ratings soared, and the network described it as a public service, but in three years the series was over, after drawing negative news coverage, advertiser wariness and a lawsuit from the family of a target who killed himself , which was later settled , with both parties saying only that it had “been amicably resolved."
There have been several copycats of “To Catch a Predator,” including Ontario construction worker Justin Payne, who ensnared dozens of men by 2015 . In British Columbia, Ryan LaForge made a name (and a criminal record , pleading guilty to two counts of assault) with his group, Creep Catchers, and in Michigan, Zach Sweers caught potential predators under the name “Anxiety War” until 2016, when he settled two civil lawsuits from targets .
Now, thanks in part to social media, these groups have multiplied rapidly in recent months, propelled by a rabid and growing fanbase, according to law enforcement officials and Facebook data.
The NBC News review found more than 30 similar operations on Facebook across 23 states. Most have formed in the last year, finding an audience and influence on Facebook, where hundreds of thousands of users like and follow them, watch videos of their stings and support their efforts with donations and the purchase of branded merchandise.
Truckers Against Predators, started in June by a St. Louis truck driver, Anthony Greene, has quickly become the genre’s most popular group, with 92,000 Facebook followers, according to NBC News’ review of the groups. Greene, who uses a team of decoys to fish for potential predators to berate in gas station parking lots, said he was inspired by Shane Coyle, who runs Facebook’s second-most-popular predator hunter group, Prank Call Mafia. Coyle, a former MTV reality show contestant with a criminal record unrelated to the group, disguises his voice like a minor to lure men to Florida meetups.
Sometimes, though not often, a sting by these groups ends in an arrest of the potential predator by local police. In the two years since Erdmann founded POPSquad, the group has recorded over 131 stings and claims to have been involved in 14 arrests, all of which NBC News has confirmed, though not all of the men were charged with crimes related to POPSquad’s videos.
Nonetheless, many law enforcement officers object to the groups and consider them dangerous vigilantes.
Even when police don’t get involved, the predator hunters and their loyal followers are ready to exact their own form of justice on social media, making sure that the alleged predator’s video is seen by his family, friends and employers.
Frank Norris, 32, a POPSquad follower from Cheshire, Connecticut, is one self-appointed enforcer.
“I’ve called state police, I’ve called family members and I say, ‘This is your family member,’ so they can distance themselves,” Norris said of the men caught on POPSquad’s videos. “I think it’s disgusting. I think it’s a huge problem. That's why I’m active. You want to shame these people.”
These online hunters are tapping into a hunger for vengeance, said Steven Kohm, a cultural criminologist at the University of Winnipeg.
“Criminal justice used to be emotional and participatory,” Kohm said. “Over the last 100 years, it’s become mostly hidden and dominated by professionals. People are yearning to reconnect with the punitive emotional core of the justice system. These groups focusing on the pedophile, a universally reviled category, helps them connect with the lost aspect of the justice system.”
Kohm linked the hunters to the popularity of internet sleuthing, at a time of deep mistrust in authority. It appears to be the same impulse that fueled Qanon, "pizzagate" and other popular conspiracy theories obsessively “investigated” by online groups.
“It’s a mob-justice vigilante mentality,” Kohm said.
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This is a bit of a long read, but I think it is a cautionary tale and worth the time. Should even for the best of intentions, outing of all kinds be allowed on social media.. or is it freedom of speech?
They should have turned him into the cops and let the justice system handle it.
I think you're absolutely right. There is a danger that vigilantes can make very bad and irreversible mistakes. Leave it up to the professionals.
I think the Cops should try to work with them. They could help them by setting rules so the evidence and methods are admissible in Court and of course be there at the end to make an arrest. The Cops do these types of stings but they don't have the manpower to be online all the time so these groups should be used like volunteers.
If the cops had been on the scene to arrest him, that likely would have prevented a suicide. He would have been arrested and put on suicide-watch. This happened so fast, it looks like even if they had called cops right away, it would have been too late.
Then any evidence of his actions would be thrown out in court as the fruit of the poisonous vine. The idea of the sting is also questionable. Call the cops and let them know when he took the bait of agreeing to the meeting with someone who is underage.
Should even for the best of intentions, outing of all kinds be allowed on social media...or is it freedom of speech?
No. Simply no. 'Outings' on social media usually appear without context. And, even has gotten people who were not social outcasts killed.
I can remember the young male college student who was revealed having a sexual interaction with a fellow student in college dorm, when one boy posted the video online. This young man did nothing wrong by having sex with his 'mate,' but he was not mentally prepared for any returning stigma of being 'outed' —he hanged himself.
Another situation is video footage praised for showing 'crimes of passion' where say an NFL football player is seem slapping, kicking, or spitting on another person. We approve of seeing something tangible to aid in putting together what happened, but are we getting the full story of what actually occurred from start to finish?
Social media 'outings' can overwhelm a person's mind through naming-situation-exposure, but is the background context (the full story) correct or even presented? Also, outing to the community sometimes leaves a person struggling-floundering for recourse or a way to make amends.
NOTE: Do keep in mind that social media does use private home cameras to expose (for identity purposes and "shaming") people who steal packages, assault others, or troll neighborhoods. Cameras and recording devices are in every person owning a personal phone pocket or purse these days. We are at risk of exposure (without context/background) all day every day. Also, the evening news (professionals) sometimes do a 'public service' to show private video of a situation to the public seeking to call attention and draw a certain individual out.
Okay! Well, today I got around to going to the POPSQUAD website (looking for the video of Malcolm being 'caught'-it does not appear to be up.) However, in scouting out the rest of the videos, though this is all very weird, and although I hate such activities which catch people so unawares, begrudgingly, I have to admit these eyes are performing a useful service and it is free-speech.
After all, the 'pervs' are showing up at an agreed upon location, there are chat logs (yipes!) where ages are discussed, and the pervs stand there in real-time on camera of their own free will to be questioned —while clearly in shock.
This is highly unorthodox! But, it does pass my muster!
And you know what it tells me when they stand there and try to justify their actions?
They think what they did was normal..... FOR THEM! They may be in shock, but it is shock from being exposed and asked to explain themselves....
And they can't in any rational manner.....
So in my opinion, they deserve the exposure and there is no law saying that they can't be exposed, so the " citizen sting" operation is fine and a clear expression of free speech.
Now if they take the evidence gathered thru the sting and use it to damage the persons life in any way other than reporting it to the authorities or publishing it openly. That is vigilantism and should be dealt with in civil court and criminal court if said retribution goes criminal. Vigilantism is retribution, taking the law in the form of judgment and punishment into your own hands and is wrong.
I do not support that outcome at all.... And rightfully several of the sting operations have gone too far and have paid a hefty price financially in civil court for their largess. There is a fine line between gathering the information for the purpose of reporting it publicly and turning it over to the authorities. (of which most of the time the authorities do nothing with it cause of the lack of probable cause) Or, using it to exact the exposer's brand of justice by humiliating the person and exposing them in the wrong way. You don't send the information to their employers, friends and family with the intent to damage their space in life. You CAN post it to the internet in public as long as it is posted generally without specific targeting.
That is free speech.... And I support it......
They need to be exposed, and if the government won't do it then who will?
And it is not limited to the young males, the young females are an even greater target of this type of pedo slavery......
I would invite a court review of procedures in this type of case, cause the current laws on probable cause are insufficient to allow them to do much in this area... that is the argument heard from the prosecutorial side..... It is next to impossible to prove intent prior to the the actual agreement to meet after the age question is asked and answered.... Once the potential perp asks the age question, the underage answer is given, the perp has to initiate the suggestion of meeting for sex to have proper probable cause establishing intent. (I've been following this for a long time and back in the chatroom days actually helped set up a couple of these stings, it's actually very easy to do) There is a national organization who actively seeks volunteers to do this! (but trains them to do it right) I never was a volunteer, I just don't have the knack to play a young person online believably. But there are people that do......
So I see no problem with it as long as the people know what they are doing and the authorities have the supervision......
Self styled internet vigilantie's are just as evil as the lynch mob vigilante's of old......
And trust me they are catching the unawares all right, the real career pedophiles are well aware that most chatroom's will have some member doing a sting so that isn't where they go...... how you catch those is watch for the person that invites a revealed young person to another private chatroom..... the professional pedophile knows what he/she is doing......
This is why the law needs to be revisited in light of the tech at the disposal of these sicko's you want to stop the pedo rings and human trafficking rings? open up the tech to the law......
The only way......
PS: most human trafficking rings operating in the US have given up the chatroom, they just go straight to the street and kidnap their victims..... for them it is easier and faster to get the volume they need.
I am compelled to agree. If the person caught on camera thinks there is a point to arguing why s/he shows up at a "bait house or location" then take PopSquad to court. Other than that, after watching the conduct of the Popsquad 'crew' I can not pick fault with their social media uploads.
For the record, from a social media angle, this is no different than outing people who get camera busted for stealing packages off of porches.
I just read up on the 'popsquader' who runs this enterprise. He is on probation for selling drugs and is a former (busted) hustler. He gets off probation very soon if not already by now for hustling. He has plans to leave Connecticut and take this project of his bigger-better-farther, even international. Go figure. Even looking for a television show offer.
For now, his future strategic moves are not the issue.
He and his team are doing a really dangerous undertaking in attempting to film these guys - young and old - cold, trying to get with underage children.
NOTE: That is what I mean about context being "the thing." Seeing the footage, learning there are chat records, seeing volitional acts of men showing up at various locations, leaves them little excuse. . .for the exposure they face when the 'door' opens and someone with a camera is standing there.
I read about this earlier. The one I read had a different last name for Shane, it was Coyle. Said he was on MTV at one time.
He himself has a criminal record for drugs and robbery.
Now name has changed.
Most of the vigilante groups are based on facebook. Several have had lawsuits against them and they settled out of court.
After Malcolm had killed himself, the people on the facebook site were saying things like, glad he's dead, he deserved it, etc.
I am definitely not on the side of anyone hurting a child, yet I am not on the side of people praising his death either.
Vigilante justice is usually outlawed for a reason. It reminds me of a mob mentality, mobs hanging people in the town square.
I also have a thing against entrapment. Like cops pretending to be prostitutes or a cop selling drugs to bust the people that buy. It is almost like them breaking the law themselves just to catch or ensnare others. I realize what these people are doing is a little different yet it is the same principal, imo.
I have no problem with this, when the perp is going after juveniles.
If the guy decided to kill himself that is his guilt at getting caught and exposed overcoming him....
All they have to do is make sure it's an adult they are meeting and I could care less what they do with each other......
STAY AWAY from the kids..... and every LGBQ that I know agrees with me.....
Is it vigilante justice? catching/exposing them no, it is not....
Actively destroying their lives afterwards, yes it is and should be illegal....
I agree. This is a very serious problem in the US.
I do believe that pedophiles, who have not molested/raped children, should be allowed to seek professional counseling without being reported to law enforcement. Pedophilia will most likely be considered a mental disorder in the future. This does not mean that they should not face consequences for harming children. However, I believe we should seek humane routes to prevention whenever possible.
Pedophiles, who are arranging hookups with minors, are seeking to harm children and should be reported to authorities. But I have no problem with their community being alerted if they are actively seeking hookups with minors.
There is plenty wrong with this, starting with the fact that these are untrained, inconsiderate, groups targeting easy prey in an outcast community. Now I do not generally feel anything about sexual predation or predators of any kind, but like cell phone cameras which can upload a careless moment to Snapchat or Instagram or online name your program-just how much control over our existence are we expected to palm over to an unknown "johnny" on the street?
More later. This is an important issue. If only because it it generate sympathy for a class of people who are suffering because of their sexual inclinations which are justifiable difficult for society to accept or allow. Still, these people exists and we, Americans, do not like to hear of people hanging themselves out of shame for their "station" in life!
He didn't hang himself out of his station in life or his sexual inclinations,
He hung himself cause he actively went after a child, and got caught and exposed which would destroy his rep as a clean an above board honorable man...
In other words, everything he hung his sense of self on was lost.... had nothing to do with sexual inclinations or preferences. Which I read in the article most people around him understood even if they didn't openly acknowledge it.
Unless he was a member of Nambla or a believer of their ideals and his sexual preferences was for juveniles.
Anyway, he chose to make the sexual connection to what he believed was a juvenile with expectation of sex upon meeting.
He brought his shame upon himself by his actions, not his sexual preferences. (or like I said, his preferences are for juveniles, and that would make him a sexual predator)
I have mixed feelings. I'm not a fan of vigilante justice - but is it the fault of the vigilantes that this guy was so ashamed that he killed himself? Child molesters are scum and cannot be cured. But I'm definitely leaning more toward your viewpoint. People should realize that if they actively try to molest children, they might just get caught.
I went to bed directly after writing my "quickie" comment. Nowhere Man, I am not at all sure I want to direct this reply I am about to go on to you so forgive me if it appears too strong, but these are the thoughts I jogged down (offline) before nodding off last night:
1. Not everybody has a right (legal standing) to pursue otherwise innocent people.
2. Remember no one should like vigilante justice ("street justice").
3. Where are these groups listing of "staff support" for example, a staff psychologist, to assist and protect their 'perp' to make certain he/she does not harm himself/herself because of something the group has inadvertently done, said, or caused?
4. Are these groups using "bully tactics"? Have they been certified to conduct 'stings'?
5. Are these groups strategics and tactics able to pass legal 'muster'?
6. Have these vigilante groups themselves passed courses, for example, Anger Management? Trained to avoid 'trigger' words and expressions?
7. Are the free speech rights of the "perp" being respected?
8. When are the proper authorities consulted (brought in)?
9. What happens if these groups 'trigger' somebody under a professional doctor's care to act out in excess? In other words, treatment was working but was prematurely 'halted' by the tactics of people on the street prowling for 'perps'?
This is why the perp will ultimately win the public debate. Because when 'strong-arm' tactics are deployed by people not properly situated to act in public spaces or do 'ops" public anger will eventually 'cool' and it will see through to question these groups agendas and the public always revolts against methods which 'overkill.'
PLEASE NOTE I am writing 'raw' because I want to get it out immediately.
In my opinion, this isn't about the sexual orientation, it is about predation.
If two 15 yr olds want to hook up on the down-lo, the law in most places says that is ok....
The law in most places specifically prohibits an adult from hooking up with a minor.....
As far as the people that are online exposing these creeps looking to hook up with minors? there are a great number of groups that do this, some with legal support and some without.... I know there is a group that does it chasing predators that go after underage girls with a 90% conviction rate. on the other hand there are those groups without very much legal support with an almost 0 percentage conviction rate...
And yes, I chose the terminology of Creeps very carefully. There is no occasion where an adult should be propositioning a juvenile for sexual activity.
I believe that 99% of the population will agree with this position.
There is no defense for this, no explanation, no rationalization that makes this type of behavior acceptable. This behavior has nothing to do with homosexuality or a homosexuals self identity.
If your going to make the argument that it does, that this is normal behavior for a homosexual, that sexing children is an expression of free speech?
Then that is an admission that homosexuals are perverted predators.
Which I do not believe..... Just like there are heterosexuals that are perverted predators, there are homosexuals that are also.
Please tell me that your not going to make that argument? (cause even though you admit your comments are raw, it seems like your headed down the path that this is excusable behavior)
Also consider this......
Most of these groups come about from a societal need, a situation that the "Government or Law Enforcement" is not fulfilling. if they were, there wouldn't be such a need for this type of investigation.....
One needs to consider that aspect to it also, society has a need to protect it's young from this type of common human behavior and the old rules and laws are not cutting it. So what happens in a society is the citizens of said society come up with their own solution.....
And this one is just using the favored tech of the predator against them.... the law hasn't caught up to the tech yet......
I believe this solution, (which has been going on for decades now) is currently the best one, I would rather have a distinct law enforcement groups handling it but until government wants to put the resources into it, the citizens are well justified in finding a way themselves as long as they don't violate any laws....
Hurt feelings? that is what they have civil courts for.....
Thank you for taking the 'challenge' of my comment seriously. I really appreciate the effort!
I will give your comment a vote up, because I agree with the overall tone of your message. There are complex issues here. Because society constructs cultural norms around sexual activity within a nation's borders. For instance, in certain parts of the world I read some nuances of sexual activity/ies with children is the norm. I do not agree with it. Not everything is not about me, nevertheless!
Let me clear out the elephant in the room on my account: I am not a pedophile and am not sexually interested in any child or teenager, period.
What I am is someone who can see and has been watching this 'issue' coming forward out of the background. Interestingly, since arguments for homosexual rights and same-sex marriages were remedied in 2012.
I even heard a member of that "community" as soon as same-sex marriage passed in 2012 announce on a cable news channel, they would use a similar 'format' as a blueprint to establish their civil rights eventually.
So, for me, this is something I have known would come up sooner whether than not.
For the people doing this, are they really trying to protect children? Or are they looking themselves to prey on another human being and picked a target people are unlikely to defend?
Now that's an interesting question.
i agree
and
so i guess i agree with Tacos,
what the heck...
I know.........me too
What a great question and a different way to look at this situation. Thank you for posing it.
How did they "prey" on the pedophile?
First - and kind of as an aside, I guess - 14/15 is certainly young and a minor, but it doesn't indicate pedophilia. Pedophiles are attracted to prepubescent children.
To my question, just examine their activity for what it is. They went on to the internet looking to capture, embarrass, and humiliate a person. Regardless of what that person has done or intended to do, that is a fair characterization of their activity. Even if you think the preying is justified, "preying" is what they are doing.
If this guy hadn't killed himself, and he wasn't going to be prosecuted, then they haven't saved anyone. He could go right back to doing what he was doing, but maybe he would simply be more careful about getting caught.
When they did find this guy, they made no attempt to have him arrested. If he has mental health issues that drove him to this, they did nothing to facilitate treatment. What, in fact, did they do? They posted their capture on Facebook. That says to me that they may be primarily interested in expanding their own notoriety by forming the kind of mini lynch mob that most people won't object to.
Then there are issues of fairness. We have the story presented from the perspective of the people who say they are conducting a sting but we don't have the other side. If we were taking this case to court, we would want to be able to examine computer records and other evidence they say proves this guy is preying on minors. And whatever was happening here, it's unlikely that the penalty imposed would have been execution.
So, in the end, we don't know if children were saved and it does not appear that justice was served.
Tacos! I thank you for looking at this true difficult subject matter with a fair mind. It is the way that courts would undertake the case, keeping emotions in check. Pedophiles have real problems in society and so do adults who desire sexual favors from legally underage youth (under 18 years of age).
Still , you, like me, can see the need for proper handling of individual situations and circumstances by professionals, law enforcement, lawyers, and judges. Also, at some point this 'dirty deal' of pedophilia will have to be revisited by Congress, a sitting president, and the Supreme Court. All which goes to civil rights, if there be any to supply, to these citizens caught in this lifelong tragedy.
Again, thank you for showing leadership by standing up and being counted as one taking a fair-minded approach in discussion!
Note: This is a 'hard' discussion that is needed. I can agree with points on both sides and will vote up points all around the subject matter.
who was seeking to sexual pleasure themselves with a minor that was too young to give consent to having sex with a person 6 years older than they were. The predator, in this seed, is painted as having above average intelligence. It would have benefited him to have sought out age appropriate hookups. It could be that he was fearful of being hurt by a male his own age or older.
The people, who condemn or guilt homosexuals, are more to blame for this man's death than the people who outed him for seeking a hookup with a minor. If homosexuals were allowed to be freely who they are in this society, they might find it easier to find relationships since homosexuals are such a small percentage of the human population.
I have way too much real life experience with sexual predators to care how they are caught.
Interesting. I suppose that's possible for this individual, but we do see plenty of heterosexuals caught up in these things, too. That makes me think there is more going on. Maybe if it were easier for anyone of age to hook up, they wouldn't go looking for young people on the internet - for example, if prostitution were legal and cheap.
“It’s a mob-justice vigilante mentality,” Kohm said.
I don't think it is. If they arrested and punished the perpetrators then it would be.
On a related note - I'm signed up for something where I get an alert if a registered sex offender moves nearby.
Do these alert systems encourage vigilante justice?
In my case, I found out that a guy who forcibly raped two young girls (one 13, one 18) and had served 5 years in prison in CA had moved nearby. I let everyone know, so they could warn their kids about him. He ended up going back to jail on a parole violation not long after that. But people have also been registered as sex offenders because there was a couple of year age difference in a boyfriend and girlfriend. I like that the alert system gives specific details so hopefully people don't overreact.
I don't think many people pay attention to the details of the alert system. Once they receive an alert, they probably automatically assume "child molester."
Some people are simply busybodies and talk about everything in the community in hyperbolic terms. I have a neighbor this way and I literally hate him/her for being that way! It is so hard to know when social manipulation is taking place!
We actually get like a postcard thing in the mail.
I got one either Monday or yesterday. I looked at it once and tossed it in the recycle bin.
A really easy win for these groups is to show up at church every Sunday. They should also shame those in the congregation for continuing to show up at these houses of molestation to offer their children up for sacrifice so they can get into heaven. They are culpable for putting their own children at risk. They know the church is a cesspool of child abuse and molestation and still they walk their children in the front doors.
I have no problem with people taking action and identifying these predators but they should hand over the information to law enforcement to handle. They have the background in how to deal with these situations. The reason our country is so desirable is because of our democracy and our justice system. These actions could spiral our country into lawlessness.
Something which sticks out in my mind: Season Two Episode 9 The Good Doctor :
As for the Cases of the Week…
* Claire, Morgan and Melendez work on George Reynolds ( Arrow ‘s Tyler Ritter), a 28-year-old man with deviant sexual urges. He is brought to the ER for stroke-like symptoms, side effects of a medication he’s been taking to curb his desire to prey on children. He later checks himself out of the hospital, but returns after a failed attempt to castrate himself. The doctors wait until they have no choice but to proceed with castration, but are instead forced to repair his testicles after his circulatory and clotting systems begin shutting down in the OR. Claire tells him that they can proceed with castration once he is cleared by both a psychiatrist and urologist, but warns against further self-mutilation. Afterwards, George exits the hospital and, before Claire and Morgan can stop him, throws himself in front of a bus, which kills him instantly. Later in the cafeteria, Morgan brings Claire a tea and attempts to make sense of what happened. “This isn’t the way this should have ended,” she says, “but I’m not so sure the world is a worse place than it was a couple of hours ago.”
Source:
We, the audience, are left to reflect on what just happened. The last lines of the paragraph above demonstrate the conflict in the minds of people dealing with folks affected by pedophilia.
Hospitals may be dealing with the morality of this issue already. That "community" is coming public with its issue - like it or not.
Hello all. Here's to the year 2019, and it's hopes that this brings answers to many things that perplex the critical thinking people here and around our country.
When I was at Newsvine, I did an essay about the recent released documentary on Netflix called "Who took Johnny?" Maybe some of you remember. It was and is a pretty sobering reality we face as a nation about child trafficking that still carries on today.
The 1992 disappearance of Johnny Gosch is an iconic cold case (he was the first missing child to appear on a milk carton). Who Took Johnny centers around Johnny's mother Noreen and her heartbreaking mission to uncover the truth about Johnny's disappearance, but it also looks at new evidence and theories sure to leave you on the edge of your seat.
Not only does the documentary scare the bejeezus out of you as a parent but also a kid because I was a kid when this happened and it could have happened to you or your kid/s. (and still could!) I couldn't even imagine the angst of surviving the loss of child at any age, but to have your child stolen to spend or his/her life as sex bait for pedophiles?
Don't kid yourselves, these predators are everywhere.
It is one thing to be sexually assaulted, period, for there's no remedy for the lifetime of pain-- but to be kidnapped from your own backyard (Johnny Gosch was a 9 year newspaper delivery boy) and kept into a mega pedophile sex ring from childhood to death, and NO ONE, including the FBI does a damn thing about it because it would ensnare too many top level politicians and men with money...? (according to an FBI agent in the documentary.) And we wonder why there's views of "the deep state" that covers everything up for the rich and famous? It is only going to get worse when there is very little cure for this issue. How are they getting away with any of this human trafficking of the children? I didn't know till a decade or better that the Hell's Angels were into sex trafficking and were very instrumental in many of the early disappearances of missing children we were seeing on the milk cartons, simply stolen in broad daylight from our streets. I wasn't surprised I guess, but I didn't realize how much of bad actors these bike goons were really, I suppose.
I have always said there's 3 kinds of people on this planet: Predators, prey and those of us who try our best to be neither. For me me, although I have always heralded those who stood up to them and their fellow predators (unlike Joe Peterno-types and the heirarchy of the Catholic Church that turned a blind eye to a huge sex trafficking ring/s in their own midst) I have never thought about being a vigilante or to "get-even" for it--but it makes me sick there's so much of this going on and no one is making a dent in ending the insanity of it. Do we become predators for setting the predators up for being the prey?
SO we have to ask ourselves seriously about vigilantism. Did the Scarlett Letter shaming actually work? I doubt it. Not really. Unless one did commit suicide as to not live with their guilt or their embarrassment. As far as the perp in this matter, yeah, I am for taking it to LE, but they've turned too many a blind eye to too many and so much of this just gets further swept under the rug, what else is there to do but take vigilante action? I'm not sure I could swear to ruin a person's life who didn't offend me personally but maybe we should not be stopping there. I don't know but I've had my fill of predators and even the prey to some degree (when they're adults, that is.)
I just do not know what the answer is here, but I have to give kudos for those who are standing up and taking action, illegally or legally to get to these perps. Pedophilia is an insidious flaw in mankind's behavior (I have to believe it has primitive roots) and its far more prevalent than seen by the naked eye because so many perps set themselves up to be the good guys. Monsters don't always look bad!
I also think we need to revisit age barriers to this. I'm not sure I believe in statutory rape myself past the age of 16. I would have never wanted one of my teenage friends with benefits to be legally in jeorpardy or sorry he benefitted for having willingly benefitted me? How unfair is to hold a young man hostage when he's just learning his way around a biological function that he was born with even if it's crossing the "man made construct" of time of consent ? Is that consent any different for girls than it is for boys? Or boys to boys or girls to girls? I also experienced waking up to a female feeling me up when we were having a sleep over. I think I was about 13 at the time and she may have been 15. Should she have been outted as a predator? Talk about shit hitting the fan for me. I was not into girls, by a long shot!
Bottomline, we all know sexual drive comes from the innate need to breed our species. It's why it's intense at some earlier ages and not so much at later ages. Are we this ignorant to not take figuring out best practices as a society this to task? I know a young man whose girlfriend's parents had him arrested at 17 years old for statutory rape. He was a good kid. Now he's not only got a Scarlett letter around his neck, he'll be on the "sexual predator" neighborhood crime list for the very rest of his life? He will never face an employment history application or any application that he doesn't have to explain this, all because his girlfriend said yes and her parents decided he wasn't good enough for her. What if this was YOUR son, or mine? How would we feel then?
I have to believe that every one who is born with sexual predator instincts or maybe better labeled "predator inclinations" must know they are predators at some point (maybe not aware it is predation though) from a fairly early age for what lengths they must go through to try to hide themselves. Their rouses can be huge as we can all attest to witnessing all around us. Is it better to try to get them to out themselves when they aren't even really understanding what it is they're doing? Or is this form of calling them out by setting them up for the big fall, the only way?
What is the answer in identifying them at the earliest stages possible? Can a brain scan indicate predatory behaviors? I really don't know anything about that but I'd sure like to know if there's answers and what they are.
Until we get this human stain figure out, then this is going to continue to happen because quite frankly, when is enough is enough that as a whole we finally make all efforts to end this once and for all? We already know that most rape convictions are few and far between --or their penalties. Why is this? Why do rape kits get thrown away massively across the US? Is it because the male species dominates the female species in law degrees and positions of power, that these men are too afraid of being dominated by females of judicial power who may castrate or sentence lengthy terms? IS it really the men who are protecting their own species?
I'd like to know your thoughts about what you'd be feeling and doing IF you were Malcom's parents. How would you help your child survive this?
What about Johnny? Why can't this cold case be solved? Not enough human interest? How can we not be interested?
I don't believe it is because "we" are not interested. It is because the sexual predators look like everyone else. It is because sexual predators seek out employment in professions that involve being in charge of children or around them in ways that our society deems normal.
It is because sexual predators are defended and alibied by their friends, family and society that law enforcement has difficulty arresting and prosecuting sexual predators. The victim is put on trial even if they are in grade school.
It would be wonderful if our society could "help" the predator not be a predator, but I believe that our #1 concern should be protecting the children.
Age of consent laws may not be perfect, but the focus is on protecting the child, And, yes, that includes the early teen years when mental maturity and physical maturity are at odds. Adults understand that...or at least should understand that.
Below is a link to a child abduction that I google for news about at least once a year.
Watch it, learn it, protect yourself, your family.
Castrate the bastards....
The problem isn't between the legs, it's between the ears.
Interesting. Vigilante action becomes the new 'act up'. Clearly, I note the solemn nature of your entire comment, that which came before is just something which popped into my head just now.
The new congress could be faced with a chance to make preemptive legislation to help this community to get some help for its issues, problems, dilemmas. These people are citizens; other people children; and as working adults they do pay taxes.
As I watch Speaker N. Pelosi sworn in today, I think about all that is on her proverbial house plate and I would not like to give her another issue for which, should she undertake it, the conservatives would brutalize her with propaganda as choosing sexual predators over children.
But then again, maybe Speaker Pelosi, an astute, conscientious woman is the right person for this time to help yet another desperately needy community (medically, psychologically) through the power of law.
Reposted from my own archive as the YouTube video was taken down.... (legal disclaimer/permission below)
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I just watched the entire video. The pictures of tied-up boys were shocking. The fact that this is believed to be more than a sex act; an aduction; a sex trafficking ring, but a life-long service is disturbing to the core!
Not sure what pedophiles, btw, in my photo renderings below these people are calling themselves, MAPS/ Minor-Attracted People, in the present 'age.' I am not sure how the heaven they plan to square any of what occurs in the 2014 Who Took Johnny video with a push for civil rights.
Unless this is that dreaded two-headed 'monster' of our world possessing relative good and evil faces!
Lots to think on and process, NWM. Thank you.
Yes it is, and IMHO no way to square it.
I would gather the MAP / Minor-Attracted People (see images below), will say that the people involved in kidnapping boys and girls are evil and distinct from themselves. After all, the MAP folks have a public facing website lobbying to the nation.
It is all very strange—apparently it is supposed to be at this 'stage' of achieving a long-term strategy goal.
One thing is clear (switching hats now), the pain of seeing mothers and dads wrecked by having their children taken, that pain being never-ending, without any closure; and, to see boys hogtied gives illustrative meaning to the word, "kidnapped" and it is utterly horrifying and disgusting to me.
Also, the acronym, MAP (Minor-Attracted People) takes a great deal of gall to put forth.
I do not know how to connect all of this back to "free-speech," social media, and vigilantism!
CB, I believe she can walk and chew gum at the same time which she has proven time and time again. And she can rip open the intent of the ill-intended slights no matter the cause. She has great Mama bear instincts. Just what America needs right now.
Thank you MoCowgirl, yes, I agree but I think they are all children worthy of protecting and there's got to be a better way than a lifetime of shame and punishment for a youthful consensual act. Many thanks for your repeated efforts on Morgan Nick's behalf. There's just too many! One is too many but hundreds if not thousands. Just taken, raped and likely killed like John Walsh's little boy. I was about 10 years old when that happened and was the first of my education that things like this occurred in the world. It made it pretty easy to be indoctrinated into religion from that point forward till I grew a brain and actually experienced the bad world for what it can be, myself.
Nowhere Man, I hardly ever agree with you--but I'm certainly with you on the emotional end of your thoughts. I'm very proud of you that you did know about this horrific tragedy. It is mind boggling and frustrating to say the least.
If one "youth" is 20 and one "youth" is 14, the 20 year old is a predator. If the 14 yr old has the sexual experience and intellectual maturity of a 20 yr old, then something is badly wrong.
In what context should 14 years old ever have 20 year olds in their social circle?
Shouldn't 20 yr olds be seeking sexual relations with their sexual and intellectual peers?
The rule is that a 14 yr old can have consensual sex with another 14 yr old, but depending on the state, a 14 yr old, may not be legally able to have consensual sex with a person who is 2 years younger or older.
The laws are not perfect. However, the laws do give the parent some leverage in protecting their children from predators who are cultivating sexual relationships with their kids. It seems the majority of the US are not of the mindset that old enough to bleed is old enough to breed.
Not only should public schools be required to teach sex education, they should also teach laws about what is considered legally consensual sex.
Hi again Mocowgirl, I'm not talking 14 to 20. I'm talking changing Statutory rape laws age of consent o 16 years old as instead of 18. There is a reasonable age where parents of a -17 year old can't call rape charges against another 16-17, 18 year old that ruins their lives for the rest of their lives for being young, dumb and full ...
I'm a mother of both a daughter and a son I was also a teen myself. I'm talking about protecting both gender children. I think Statutory rape in those years are growing up is ridiculous if the sex was indeed consensual.
Mygawd, it's not about old enough to breed if old enough to bleed, it's about realism. There are likely more teens between 16 and 18 having sex that the tweener age group.
Bottomline, teens have consensual sex. Which has nothing to do with predation otherwise you could deem all acts of preparation of turning on the pheromones of another is predator behavior, I. E. Grooming. What is when we dress and make-up, buff up? It's to turn on the object of your desire. That ritual starts very early in both genders. It is not the fault of a single human being to be sexual. But, society determined rules for a reason of maturity. How mature is it to hold a 17 year old young man hostage to sexual predator status the remainder of his entire life for having consensual sex with his girlfriend who was also 17? Maturation wise, you and I both know, the only difference in maturity between most 16 year olds and 18 years old is not much. Not wanting your kids to not have sex, is a pipe dream at best. Most teens are not virgins by the time they are 18. Even from the "best of families" as if that has anything to do with it. I state that because of the precedence of historical truths about pregnancy, abortions, adoptions, institutions like Catholic "schools" for unwed mothers. Its age old, but even going back 50-60-70 years. It's quite obvious, with or was without parental or societal permissions, boys and girls have been giving each other permission for a very long time. These institutions were filled with just as many upper class girls, as lesser privileged. As we know, the upper class seems to think itself "better or best". Its not a class issue for anyone who thinks it is.
I would be mortified if my parents caused a boy I had puppy love with, a life sentence for sharing my most intimate experience with. Wouldn't you? Seems telling most of those same outraged parents, think far differently when it's their son who impregnates a consensual act and responsibility becomes far more real. Also, in this case of 2 consensual 17 years old, why is the girl not charged with the same scarlett letter of sexual predator? If the Statutory rape laws are to have equality and balance? She consented so why is the burden only on the male?
Sorry for delay I've not had a chance to get back to NT since I wrote previously. I also am using my phone today, which I prefer not to use due to formatting issues. Also, this Samsung keyboard auto complete program sucks and changes words out on me all the time.
100% agreement Robin, as I have said no child should be penalized and ostracized permanently by society for being a normal teenager....
Since 16 is the age of consent in most states it puts a lot of pressure on the teen female to conform to her parents ideals if she happens to get caught, and the parental accusation of rape of their precocious daughter to "Protect her Honor" (more like protecting their reputations) is also something that should not be allowed, it is a special form of abuse.....
I don't think Mocowgirl was approaching it from that aspect.....
Yeah, she probably wasn't, but it needs to be realized. It is at the heart of fairness and equal justice.
I'm from Arkansas. The age of consent is 16 years of age with close in age exemptions.
I know teenagers have sex. I was a teenager who had sex and married at 17 and dropped out of high school. Luckily, I was not pregnant, went on birth control, ended the marriage, and screwed around with mostly players for a couple of years before remarrying.
In my teens and 20s, I received a first class education on what men will do when they think no one is looking or they can't be caught. Being married to a Marine for 9 years was very enlightening. My next door neighbor babysat my daughters to help feed her 3 sons while her husband was paying for a prostitute by the month when he was deployed overseas.
I tried to educated my daughters about why they should probably avoid the players in their school. My daughters and I talked about short term and long term life goals. I did not want them to repeat the mistakes that I had made.
This is my I told my daughters that I had no issue with them having sex as long as they were not "talked into it" or coerced in any way and they absolutely 100% had to use birth control. Although, I was not a fan of putting teenaged girls on hormonal birth control, I would have taken my daughters to the doctor and put them on the pill. I did tell them that condoms were a must because of disease. The one thing that I absolutely would not support was a teenage pregnancy.
I looked at California laws as an example of 18 yr old age of consent.. Both parties are guilty if under 18. So if the parents of the 17 yr old girl want to file charges, their daughter will also be charged.
Parents, who cannot trust their children to make good decisions, should not allow them to date. This is why my older daughter was not allowed to date until she had graduated high school. She was emotionally immature for her age....and a world class manipulator.
I support the 16 years old age of consent as long as there is less than a 3 year age gap. However, I do not support under the age of 16 age of consent unless the parties are within one year of age.
Not at all.
I was responding to the situation in this seed where a 20 year old man is trolling online to hookup with a stranger for sex and targets a 14 year old instead of an age appropriate peer. Statutory rape laws should apply and be enforced in these situations.
I had an adopted cousin who started having casual sex at the age of 13. She had an abortion at 13 and then another one a few months later at 14. I am 6 years older than she is. I had taken her to the county clinic to get birth control pills after I learned of the first abortion. She got pregnant again before they could take effect.
Her life pretty much went downhill from there. Last I knew, she is now a meth head under house arrest by her parents. I distanced myself from this mess a couple of decades ago.
Sadly to say, an all too common story.....
I wanted to note that pedophiles usually groom their victims over weeks, months or even years. I did not see any mention in the article of details on how many communications are usually necessary before the would be sexual predator agrees to or sets up a meet to have sex with their intended prey.
These are not people seeking consensual sexual relationships in any way.
Excerpt from New York Times article:
Pedophilia: A Disorder, Not a Crime
By Margo Kaplan Oct. 5, 2014
The Americans With Disabilities Act of 1990 and Section 504 of the Rehabilitation Act of 1973 prohibit discrimination against otherwise qualified individuals with mental disabilities, in areas such as employment, education and medical care. Congress, however, explicitly excluded pedophilia from protection under these two crucial laws.
It’s time to revisit these categorical exclusions. Without legal protection, a pedophile cannot risk seeking treatment or disclosing his status to anyone for support. He could lose his job, and future job prospects, if he is seen at a group-therapy session, asks for a reasonable accommodation to take medication or see a psychiatrist, or requests a limit in his interaction with children. Isolating individuals from appropriate employment and treatment only increases their risk of committing a crime.
T here’s no question that the extension of civil rights protections to people with pedophilia must be weighed against the health and safety needs of others, especially kids. It stands to reason that a pedophile should not be hired as a grade-school teacher. But both the A.D.A. and the Rehabilitation Act contain exemptions for people who are “not otherwise qualified” for a job or who pose “a direct threat to the health and safety of others” that can’t be eliminated by a reasonable accommodation. (This is why employers don’t have to hire blind bus drivers or mentally unstable security guards.)
The direct-threat analysis rejects the idea that employers can rely on generalizations; they must assess the specific case and rely on evidence, not presuppositions. Those who worry that employers would be compelled to hire dangerous pedophiles should look to H.I.V. case law, where for years courts were highly conservative, erring on the side of finding a direct threat, even into the late 1990s, when medical authorities were in agreement that people with H.I.V. could work safely in, for example, food services.
Removing the pedophilia exclusion would not undermine criminal justice or its role in responding to child abuse. It would not make it easier, for example, for someone accused of child molestation to plead not guilty by reason of insanity.
A pedophile should be held responsible for his conduct — but not for the underlying attraction. Arguing for the rights of scorned and misunderstood groups is never popular, particularly when they are associated with real harm. But the fact that pedophilia is so despised is precisely why our responses to it, in criminal justice and mental health, have been so inconsistent and counterproductive. Acknowledging that pedophiles have a mental disorder, and removing the obstacles to their coming forward and seeking help, is not only the right thing to do, but it would also advance efforts to protect children from harm.
Source:
My disclaimer: I do not support pedophilia. My only interest in this topic is in the area of civil rights. These groups are looking to mount some future challenge based on what other groups classified and declassified as "mental disorders" have accomplished. (it's considered use of a 'playbook.') - CB/Cal
I agree with all of the above paragraph. I have stated this already in this discussion.
Pedophiles, who have not harmed children, should be encouraged to seek treatment without being outed because they have NOT harmed children. BTW, that includes viewing child porn. If they have viewed child porn then they have committed a crime.
If a pedophile harms a child then they should be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law and society is notified so the children can be protected from a person with an incurable mental illness. Since pedophiles are mentally ill, then instead of prison maybe they should be sent to a mental hospital until it is determined that they will never ever harm another child.
I must do some painting while it is warm. Be back maybe this evening.
I have only accolades for this spirited engagement on the topic. Thank you for reading the excerpt and connecting with the subject matter without rejecting it outright. Thank you for I am getting a hint of is experience and forethought on this subject matter. Thank you for your intensity which is coming across in volumes. DISCUSSION ON NT IS HEALTHY! I am thrilled to be doing so with you!
Now then, there is this from the same article:
Excerpt from New York Times article:
Pedophilia: A Disorder, Not a Crime
By Margo Kaplan Oct. 5, 2014
The Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders defines pedophilia as an intense and recurrent sexual interest in prepubescent children, and a disorder if it causes a person “marked distress or interpersonal difficulty” or if the person acts on his interests. Yet our laws ignore pedophilia until after the commission of a sexual offense, emphasizing punishment, not prevention.
Part of this failure stems from the misconception that pedophilia is the same as child molestation. One can live with pedophilia and not act on it. Sites like Virtuous Pedophiles provide support for pedophiles who do not molest children and believe that sex with children is wrong. It is not that these individuals are “inactive” or “nonpracticing” pedophiles, but rather that pedophilia is a status and not an act. In fact, research shows, about half of all child molesters are not sexually attracted to their victims.
A second misconception is that pedophilia is a choice. Recent research, while often limited to sex offenders — because of the stigma of pedophilia — suggests that the disorder may have neurological origins. Pedophilia could result from a failure in the brain to identify which environmental stimuli should provoke a sexual response. M.R.I.s of sex offenders with pedophilia show fewer of the neural pathways known as white matter in their brains. Men with pedophilia are three times more likely to be left-handed or ambidextrous, a finding that strongly suggests a neurological cause. Some findings also suggest that disturbances in neurodevelopment in utero or early childhood increase the risk of pedophilia. Studies have also shown that men with pedophilia have, on average, lower scores on tests of visual-spatial ability and verbal memory.
The Virtuous Pedophiles website is full of testimonials of people who vow never to touch a child and yet live in terror. They must hide their disorder from everyone they know — or risk losing educational and job opportunities, and face the prospect of harassment and even violence. Many feel isolated; some contemplate suicide. The psychologist Jesse Bering, author of “Perv: The Sexual Deviant in All of Us,” writes that people with pedophilia “aren’t living their lives in the closet; they’re eternally hunkered down in a panic room.”
CB: So you can see if the "choice" aspect is magnified, where the depths of discussion can lead in a court of law. It is a take-off of the "born this way" anthem and style of revolution change expectantly seeking something as a benefit (of some sort) from society. (Mind me, I am unclear on where any of this which I am sharing is headed.)
NO ONE should be outed who has not committed a crime.......
Agreed 100% and the penalties should be as stiff as the law allows. (stiffer than they currently are in my opinion) there has been a lot of revision over the last decade or so of the sexual abuse statutes, some of it good, some of it bad. the current general status in the law is anyone under 12 is rape in any scenarios or combinations. After that they use a two year window up to 18. After 18 complete freedom in consensual relations..... This is a good thing especially in light of current thinking that conviction of a sexual offense is a sentence that should publicly follow one around for life. A legal scarlet letter.
Sexually mature children should not be labeled as a sexual abuser simply from "playing doctor" or "playing house" something that is best suited for parents to deal with on an educational and moral level. I have adjusted my beliefs on when sexual education should take place form the previous 16-17 to 12-13 years of age, better yet when evidence of sexual maturity begins to show. And it shouldn't be just how everything works physically or what's the best way to do specific sexual acts.
Potential consequences & responsibility should also be taught. Sex is not dirty nor is it evil, but it also isn't something acceptable in full public display. (although some of the hollywood mainstream movies seem to have lost this ideal)
Morality is also not a dirty word nor a societal expression of repression. It is the belief in standards of behavior and ethics in society that is just as important as knowledge of how everything works.
Pedophiles who recognize they have a problem and seek treatment and help to prevent themselves from becoming actors in abusing children should not be outed. But they have to recognize that they do have a problem that needs to be monitored cause there is no known cure.
Those that act in their sickness, deserve what they get when caught.
Is it a question for judicial review? absolutely, that is why the courts exist. Should pedophile actors be exposed and given the scarlet letter forever ABSOLUTELY! Does it matter how they are exposed? IMHO, NO IT DOESN'T!!!
But as a moral and ethical society, those so exposed should be turned over to the proper authorities for dealings against the law. Justice in that way remains blind.
Justice in this world is the purveyance of government and laws, "Street Justice" is criminal in and of itself.
Exposing these people for their acts is just and can be done by anyone, punishing the actors is the duty of the society by the laws in place and can only be done by the courts.
If said believers in pedophila think they are being abused by the law then the courts are the place to take such up. But don't be surprised if the justices refuse to carve out an active pedophilia exception to the sexual abuse laws.... (way too much legal precedence against to allow that)
So in essence I agree that it is an issue that probably needs a closer look as long as one understands I have no empathy for an active pedophile's problems. And my compassion for children leads me to the quickest remedy possible for the damage they have caused.
I agree, emphatically.
I disagree with the whole idea of "born this way" no one knows where this is headed, but we do know this, once active as a pedophile they never stop and there is no known medical way to stop them... (except for life termination)
Acceptance/identification seems to be the key, but then how does one identify a pedophile before they become active?
Personally I wouldn't be able to even if they were active without catching them in the act..... and if they do develop a way to identify them before they act, is that something we force everyone to undergo? Like may other things that are undesirable in humans, do we force people to be checked for such?
What do we do when we find out that a newborn has a predilection to Rape?, Murder?, Theft?
Sounds very close to eugenics to me.....
Sometimes I think some knowledge is best left unacknowledged.....
1. I find the last sentence rip-roaringly funny. (I know, somethings in life are so bad at times all you can we are left to do is break the tension by sniggering under our collective breath.)
2. Our country is on a trajectory to true diversity, the question is this: Will we love ourselves for it once we reach our ultimate destination.
3. Truest diversity is a metaphoric 'multi-faceted gem' of people and new American culture. It will be a stress test on our systems.
4. I do not know what it is to be a pedophile; I do know what it is to be a homosexual outcast in society until the last 'hurdle' fell down in 2016. I know what it is like to be stigmatized, cursed, held back, and looked over —until the grey hairs appear. To watch others advance ahead of me going after the same goals, to have tax benefits and social programs designed for their way of life because of having wife and children (family) and I a life-long single coming up on the short-end. To have to be "grateful" that I just simply was not disposed of with the rest of outcast 'trash'. (I had to know my own worth! Had to demand my own space. Command my own mind in spite of what I was told by others.) So, this I can empathize with in other outcasts. I do not know how to fix-repair-pedophilia where it becomes livable, viable, or main-stream in our society. But, what I do know is this, for I see it with my own eyes: A majority who did not listen to homosexuals, who used to hurt/mock/kill homosexuals, now let homosexuals take a rightful place next to them—
How odd is that?
5. One more odd thing. The photo for this page. Oddly enough, it seems many of us have been dealing with people afraid to show their faces our collective whole lives in one form or another down through history. This is a very old generation-to-generation set of different occurrences.
I don't. I did not choose my sexuality. I don't know anyone who did. Fortunately for me I am a member of the predominant heterosexual class that is attracted to age appropriate peers. Some studies have shown that the most successful relationships are usually between people within 3 years of age.
Technology is allowing us to understand how brain development and/or damage affects personality.
All environmental factors need to be considered when evaluating a societal problem.
It doesn't mean that the end result won't be the same for the sexual predators who harm others. I actually believe it should be the death penalty for raping a child. When a person is that mentally ill, then they should never be allowed to roam the streets.
However, if there is a chance that we, as a society, can be supportive of letting the people (who have not harmed children) receive professional counseling without stigma and the end result is that fewer children are harmed, then I believe that we should do it for the sake of everyone involved.
Age appropriate consensual sex is NOT the issue.
Pedophiles commit crimes by harming children.
What is the difference between an adult man raping an adult woman or an adult pedophile raping a child?
Is the act of rape any more or less illegal?
You see this is how it is supposed to work, although we disagree on the genesis of sexual orientation, we completely agree on this aspect.
Do no harm, treat others the way you want to be treated.
BUT, Leave the children alone......
Let them enjoy their childhood and grow up into responsible adults without the manipulations of greed and avarice perverting their development. They CAN make up their own minds when sufficiently developed and educated.....
Until then HANDS OFF!
Nowadays it is not the issue. Yesterday, any age of homosexual attraction was a devastating problem. Heterosexual society was 'brainwashed" into considering homosexuality a distinction with a difference; a major problem to normal good order and decency.
Homosexuals were consigned to the bushes; bathhouses, public service announcements were made about. . . us grooming young (of age) men and women (still are) and being subjects not fit for "sensitive" (high-paying) positions. Remember up until not too long ago, in the minds of most of the public-at-large, homosexuality and pedophilia were not so separated:
&
Okay, I got off-topic a bit. But isn't it all a tad bit insightful and reminiscent?
I agree, emphatically. But, NWM and MCG, for argument sake, is not that the issue, . . .this is not our attraction issue.
Eeek! (Don't you both tackle me at the same time!)
My favorite cousin is a lesbian.
I have never really had any close friendships with gay men. Although my favorite hairdresser was gay. I had to quit going to him a decade ago because I wasn't making enough money to afford him! I really liked him. He told me that one of his mother's boyfriends had molested him when he was a child. He had lived in Dallas for years and only returned to this area because of a physical altercation with his boyfriend.
My favorite horse trainer in my area is gay. He left the area after introducing his mother to his boyfriend. He was around 40 at the time. My husband was shocked the man was gay. I had met the man when was a teenager. I always had the vibe that he was gay. When I learned that he had married and fathered two children, I was shocked. The marriage did not last. For years, he spent his time hanging around married women and making their husbands jealous. I laughed because I knew that he was probably the best girlfriend these women had ever had.
I always despised the people who judged, or felt they had the right to judge, consensual adult sex whether is was bi, homo or hetero. The people I despised more (and still do) are the people who support sexual predators of any age, gender, race or any other way that people can be labeled.
Stop the presses! You bring up a very, very, interesting point here: Pedophile activity with a young person does not (always) propagate a new pedophile. It may propagate a new homosexual (although that is questionable). But, from stories you hear of other people experiences with sex at an early age, at best they end up in near similar age relationships or one night stands.
Interestingly, enough when I was in Junior High School, I was about 13/14 thereabouts, I was approached by a driver in a car asking for directions, the man turned looked around, and reached out unzipped, touched, and briefly let's just say did more than that. Right there on the near dark street! I was startled and I guess shocked into just standing there. I guess, the incident made me a victim too. Of course, I never mentioned it at home or anywhere else. (Exception: Online once before several years ago.)
Still can see it as a memory. But, that 'moment,' which I reflected on for some time you bet, did not set me up to be homosexual. I had realized that attraction at the onset of puberty. About the time, I first entered gym classes and bi-weekly undressing with other boys. Odd too, because I had no interest in sports and gym class! Most times I would not even 'dress out.' HA!
Long story shortened. The incident of me and the "pedophile on the street" never caused me to be interested in anything other than age appropriate and legal aged males.(Of course, for the past twenty five years I have not been interested in anybody openly or relationally.)
Some rich sharing going on here. But, that is the nature of honest communication, isn't it?
ADDENDUM: Either I was in great danger, and it did not manifest as unsafe in that 'scene,' or the 'times' got worse since then coming forward to now. I will never know, I guess.
When I was young my sister ran inside one day and said a man was outside in a car rubbing himself. When I went outside her friend was still at the car talking to him.
As I walked over to the car, he took off.
HA!