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Trump says he could invoke emergency powers to build wall without Congress

  

Category:  News & Politics

Via:  krishna  •  5 years ago  •  495 comments

Trump says he could invoke emergency powers to build wall without Congress
“I can do it if I want. … We can call a national emergency because of the security of our country, absolutely,”

S E E D E D   C O N T E N T



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WASHINGTON — President Trump floated the possibility he could declare a “national emergency” in order to build a wall on the southern border during a freewheeling press conference at the White House on Friday.

“I can do it if I want. … We can call a national emergency because of the security of our country, absolutely,” Trump said, adding, “We can do it. I haven’t done it. I may do it. I may do it. But we could call a national emergency and build it very quickly.”

As he threatened to do that, Trump said:

“I’d never threaten anybody, but I am allowed to do that, yes,” Trump said.


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Krishna
Professor Expert
1  seeder  Krishna    5 years ago

WASHINGTON — President Trump floated the possibility he could declare a “national emergency” in order to build a wall on the southern border during a freewheeling press conference at the White House on Friday.

“I can do it if I want. … We can call a national emergency because of the security of our country, absolutely,” Trump said, adding, “We can do it. I haven’t done it. I may do it. I may do it. But we could call a national emergency and build it very quickly.”

So if he can do that-- why doesn't he just do it-- and immediately end the government shutdown?!!??

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
1.2  Vic Eldred  replied to  Krishna @1    5 years ago

I think he will

 
 
 
Jeremy Retired in NC
Professor Expert
1.3  Jeremy Retired in NC  replied to  Krishna @1    5 years ago
So if he can do that-- why doesn't he just do it-- and immediately end the government shutdown?!!??

Why is Pelosi and Schumer not honoring their vote from 2013 to enhance border security with a budget of over $40 BILLION?

 
 
 
Split Personality
Professor Guide
1.3.1  Split Personality  replied to  Jeremy Retired in NC @1.3    5 years ago

Jeremy, look up the Border Security, Economic Opportunity, and Immigration Modernization Act of 2013

A:  that was a 10 year budget of $40billion passed by the Senate 68 - 32

B: that the GOP House would not even consider it because

  1.  Obama wanted it.
  2. it was tied to immigration reform
  3. added 40,000 CBP agents
  4. it restricted H1B visas
  5. and eliminated the Diversity Visa Lottery
all of which Paul Ryan was apparently opposed to.

Kind of ironic isn't it?

 
 
 
Don Overton
Sophomore Quiet
1.3.2  Don Overton  replied to  Split Personality @1.3.1    5 years ago

Isn't that called major hicrospy 

 
 
 
Studiusbagus
Sophomore Quiet
1.3.3  Studiusbagus  replied to  Jeremy Retired in NC @1.3    5 years ago
honoring their vote from 2013 to enhance border security with a budget of over $40 BILLION?

Because in the middle of it Trump broke his end of the deal about DACA by demanding more.

 
 
 
igknorantzrulz
PhD Quiet
1.3.4  igknorantzrulz  replied to  Split Personality @1.3.1    5 years ago
 Obama wanted it.

how often did the GOP cease to support, at times, their own damn ideas,

just because Obama supported it...

what a hypocritical joke the Repubs R

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
1.3.5  Texan1211  replied to  igknorantzrulz @1.3.4    5 years ago

So now you justify Democrats' actions (not supporting the very wall they agreed to before) because Republicans did something?

Deflect much?

 
 
 
igknorantzrulz
PhD Quiet
1.3.7  igknorantzrulz  replied to  Texan1211 @1.3.5    5 years ago
Deflect much?

how about the Democratic Congress, the Republican Congress, the Democratic Senate, and The Republican Senate , all agreed on a bill the Trump , via Pence, said he would sign . ? > ?

Remember That ?

Deflect upon that Deflect a while

cause, Trump is the reason for this shutdown , as he claimed HE OWNED IT '

during his live (whatever the hell it was ) with Pelosi and Schumer.  Want to explain that claim that we all witnessed ???

 
 
 
igknorantzrulz
PhD Quiet
1.3.8  igknorantzrulz  replied to    5 years ago

R U saying the Republicans did not disagree with Obama, on about everything, after the Republican Heads, had a meeting directly after he won ???

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
1.3.9  Texan1211  replied to  igknorantzrulz @1.3.7    5 years ago

The affectations in your writings are still deflections--no matter how much you spin.

 
 
 
igknorantzrulz
PhD Quiet
1.3.10  igknorantzrulz  replied to  Texan1211 @1.3.9    5 years ago
The affectations in your writings are still deflections

sometimes my "writings" have that effect

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
1.3.11  Texan1211  replied to  igknorantzrulz @1.3.10    5 years ago
sometimes my "writings" have that effect

Yes, I have seen firsthand the deflections--intended or not.

 
 
 
igknorantzrulz
PhD Quiet
1.3.12  igknorantzrulz  replied to  Texan1211 @1.3.11    5 years ago

sorry Tex, but ill take the show wherever I feel it should go

how bout them Eagles...

unbelievable last play win 

 
 
 
Atheist יוחנן בן אברהם אבינו
Junior Participates
1.3.14  Atheist יוחנן בן אברהם אבינו  replied to  Texan1211 @1.3.11    5 years ago
Yes, I have seen firsthand the deflections-

Oh, yes indeed you have.  Very much first hand.  No question.  Absolutely true.  

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
1.3.15  Texan1211  replied to  Atheist יוחנן בן אברהם אבינו @1.3.14    5 years ago
Oh, yes indeed you have. Very much first hand. No question. Absolutely true

Yes, that has been established.

I even gave an example.

 
 
 
Dulay
Professor Expert
1.4  Dulay  replied to  Krishna @1    5 years ago
So if he can do that-- why doesn't he just do it-- and immediately end the government shutdown?!!??

Why should the American people accept a Declaration of a National Emergency based solely on Trump not getting what he wants? The fact is, the powers vesting in such a declaration are just this side of tyranny. 

Perhaps if someone told Trump that Obama managed to deal with over 100,000 MORE border apprehensions without declaring a national emergency, Trump will realize just how weak this makes him look. 

 
 
 
SteevieGee
Professor Silent
1.5  SteevieGee  replied to  Krishna @1    5 years ago
So if he can do that-- why doesn't he just do it-- and immediately end the government shutdown?!!??

I say he should do it.  He'll learn a little bit about how our government works.  The money still has to come from Congress.  Even in a war the money has to come from Congress.

 
 
 
Jack_TX
Professor Quiet
1.6  Jack_TX  replied to  Krishna @1    5 years ago
So if he can do that-- why doesn't he just do it-- and immediately end the government shutdown?!!??

You're starting to understand the concept of "trash talk".

 
 
 
pat wilson
Professor Participates
3  pat wilson    5 years ago

Fortunately there are checks and balances with this "power".

The National Emergencies Act ( Pub.L. 94–412 , 90  Stat.   1255 , enacted September 14, 1976, codified at 50 U.S.C.   § 1601 -1651) is a United States federal law passed to stop open-ended states of national emergency and formalize the power of Congress to provide certain checks and balances on the emergency powers of the President . The Act of Congress imposes certain procedural formalities on the President when invoking such powers. The perceived need for the law arose from the scope and number of laws granting special powers to the executive in times of national emergency.

 
 
 
Krishna
Professor Expert
3.1  seeder  Krishna  replied to  pat wilson @3    5 years ago

Fortunately there are checks and balances with this "power".

So does that mean the Trump was not telling the truth?

Certainly he wouldn't lie to the people of this country-- would he?

 
 
 
lady in black
Professor Quiet
4  lady in black    5 years ago

He lies every time he opens his mouth

 
 
 
Cerenkov
Professor Silent
5  Cerenkov    5 years ago

Sounds like a negotiating ploy. Good for him.

 
 
 
pat wilson
Professor Participates
5.1  pat wilson  replied to  Cerenkov @5    5 years ago
a negotiating ploy

 A ploy that is fraught with weakness. Not a good starting place for a POTUS.

 
 
 
lady in black
Professor Quiet
5.2  lady in black  replied to  Cerenkov @5    5 years ago

Sounds like a child throwing a temper tantrum when not getting his way

 
 
 
Sister Mary Agnes Ample Bottom
Professor Guide
5.3  Sister Mary Agnes Ample Bottom  replied to  Cerenkov @5    5 years ago
Sounds like a negotiating ploy.

Yeah, like a 4-year-old holding his breath until he gets another cookie.

 
 
 
Cerenkov
Professor Silent
5.3.1  Cerenkov  replied to  Sister Mary Agnes Ample Bottom @5.3    5 years ago

Is that because only 4 year olds care about border security? While mature liberals don't care about illegal aliens, human trafficking or drug smuggling?

 
 
 
Thrawn 31
Professor Guide
5.3.2  Thrawn 31  replied to  Cerenkov @5.3.1    5 years ago

Human trafficking and drug smuggling will continue to occur even with a wall. Shit, before you know it the cartels will just be flying drugs in via drones (if they aren't already). 

 
 
 
Thrawn 31
Professor Guide
5.4  Thrawn 31  replied to  Cerenkov @5    5 years ago
Sounds like a negotiating ploy.

And as usual, it is a shitty tactic. Trump seriously has to be the worst negotiator I have ever seen. I don't see how his threat to declare a state of emergency will result in the Democrats giving him money for a wall.

 
 
 
Split Personality
Professor Guide
5.4.1  Split Personality  replied to  Thrawn 31 @5.4    5 years ago

Hasn't anyone pointed out to Trump that the Coast Guard is part of DHS which is unfunded?

That CBP and TSA are part of DHS

So the very people charged with stopping the smuggling and other trafficking are the ones being punished by Trump's "strike"?

 
 
 
Jasper2529
Professor Quiet
5.4.2  Jasper2529  replied to  Split Personality @5.4.1    5 years ago
Hasn't anyone pointed out to Trump that the Coast Guard is part of DHS which is unfunded?

Not quite true.

TheUnited States Coast Guard(USCG) is a branch of the United States Armed Forces [6] and one of the country's seven uniformed services . The Coast Guard is a maritime, military, multi-mission service unique among the U.S. military branches for having a maritime law enforcement mission (with jurisdiction in both domestic and international waters) and a federal regulatory agency mission as part of its mission set. It operates under the U.S. Department of Homeland Security  during peacetime, and can be transferred to the  U.S. Department of the Navy  by the  U.S. President  at any time , or by the U.S. Congress during times of war. This has happened twice, in 1917, during World War I , and in 1941, during World War II . [7] [8]

 
 
 
Split Personality
Professor Guide
5.4.3  Split Personality  replied to  Jasper2529 @5.4.2    5 years ago

Wikipedia?  Really?

While the snippet from Wiki is not false, it doesn't tell the whole story.

After 911, the Coast Guard and many other agencies were reorganized under The Department of Homeland Security.

Component Agency Contacts

While the Coasties are still considered a military arm ,

their pay, benefits and retirement no longer comes from the Department of Defense. ( which was fully funded )

As members of DHS they are not receiving pay due to the current partial shutdown which left practically all of the departments

responsible for border security and the President's safety at financial risk.

The POTUS really needs to rethink his position.

If the Coast Guard were getting paid, Senator Blumenthal would be crazy to introduce legislation so that they could be financed outside of the shutdown, wouldn't he?

 
 
 
Jasper2529
Professor Quiet
5.4.4  Jasper2529  replied to  Split Personality @5.4.3    5 years ago
Wikipedia?  Really?

Yes, really. If you'd researched the footnoted citations, you'd have learned that they are from US Code and USCG/DHS sources.

While the snippet from Wiki is not false, it doesn't tell the whole story.

My purpose in comment  5.4.2   was not to "tell the whole story"; it was to merely point out the inaccuracy/omissions of your comment 5.4.1   .

Time to move on. Have a good weekend.

 
 
 
Split Personality
Professor Guide
5.4.5  Split Personality  replied to  Jasper2529 @5.4.4    5 years ago
it was to merely point out the inaccuracy/omissions of your comment 5.4.1 .

There was no inaccuracy or omission in my statement Jasper.

Here's another source, "Jasper" , please note the address, dcms.uscg.mil -  it's still an unfunded agency within DHS whether or not it's a part of the military

Please note the message from the Deputy Commander USCG;

Based on a lapse in federal funding, all employees should click here for more information. 
This website will not be actively managed.

Perhaps Mr. Trump can correct Mr. Bush's mistake and return the Coast Guard to the Department of Defense where they rightfully belong.

 
 
 
Jasper2529
Professor Quiet
5.4.6  Jasper2529  replied to  Split Personality @5.4.5    5 years ago

As I said in comment  5.4.4 ,  "Split Personality"...

Time to move on. Have a good weekend.
 
 
 
Split Personality
Professor Guide
5.4.7  Split Personality  replied to  Jasper2529 @5.4.6    5 years ago

Ahh, still suffering from having to have the last word?   After all these years?

I hear it's incurable.  So sad.

You have a good weekend too.

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
5.4.8  Vic Eldred  replied to  Split Personality @5.4.1    5 years ago
Hasn't anyone pointed out to Trump that the Coast Guard is part of DHS which is unfunded?

The one branch of the military facing immediate financial impacts of a partial government shutdown seems to have caught a break.

At least for now.

U.S. Coast Guard spokespeople said members would receive a paycheck Monday, Dec. 31. That's despite the shutdown, which directly affects the Coast Guard since it falls under the Department of Homeland Security, not the Department of Defense like other military branches. Funding for those branches was finalized last fall.

 
 
 
Split Personality
Professor Guide
5.4.9  Split Personality  replied to  Vic Eldred @5.4.8    5 years ago

A reprieve til January 15

So essentially the $$ was already allocated for December.

The Coast Guard described the move as a "one-time" action. If the partial government shutdown continues, and the DHS is not funded, Coast Guard members will likely not be paid Jan. 15. "It's a temporary measure," Saylor said in an interview. "There's no guarantee that it will impact the next pay cycle."

Good for the Coasties, they deserve better.  They can survive for a few more weeks at least.

 
 
 
Krishna
Professor Expert
5.5  seeder  Krishna  replied to  Cerenkov @5    5 years ago

Sounds like a negotiating ploy. Good for him.

Trump has surrounded himself with corrupt people. Some indicted, some plead guilty... but that's another topic. 

But you comment made me think two men he chose to work for him: his former lawyer and former campaign advisor:

U.S. prosecutors have laid out in court details of what they say are lies by former top associates of President Donald Trump regarding their interactions with Russian contacts, charges that will likely lead to long prison terms for the two men.

The accusations against former Trump campaign chairman Paul Manafort and former personal lawyer Michael Cohen were made in separate filings late on December 7 in federal court.

So here's what I was wondering-- in court can they claim they shouldn't be punished because their lies were not "real" lies-- but merely "negotiating ploys"?

(Actually I guess his lawyer realize that pleading "negotiating ploy" wouldn't work-- he's plead guilty and has spilled the legumes!

 
 
 
Jeremy Retired in NC
Professor Expert
6  Jeremy Retired in NC    5 years ago

Can you imagine the number of people who would stroke out if the President declared a national emergency?  Democrats and the left would lose their collective minds.

 
 
 
epistte
Junior Guide
6.1  epistte  replied to  Jeremy Retired in NC @6    5 years ago
Can you imagine the number of people who would stroke out if the President declared a national emergency?  Democrats and the left would lose their collective minds.

The lack of a wall isn't a national emergency. 

 You should learn about checks and balances because declaring a national emergency doesn't exempt him from the Constitution. 

 
 
 
Jeremy Retired in NC
Professor Expert
6.1.1  Jeremy Retired in NC  replied to  epistte @6.1    5 years ago

You are referring to the same checks and balances that were absent as the last administration

- sent billions to Iran

-armed ISIS and Mexican drug lords

- negotiated with the Taliban

- spied on american citizens

Why the sudden interest in checks and balances?  Oh.  They want it because now things aren't going their way.

Don't know why the wall funding is such an issue.  Democrats voted to fund better security in 2013 at a cost of something like $46 billion. It's a matter of where that money went.  Oh, I mentioned it in my first point.

 
 
 
Split Personality
Professor Guide
6.1.2  Split Personality  replied to  Jeremy Retired in NC @6.1.1    5 years ago
Don't know why the wall funding is such an issue.  Democrats voted to fund better security in 2013 at a cost of something like $46 billion. It's a matter of where that money went.  Oh, I mentioned it in my first point.

and I responded

Border Security, Economic Opportunity, and Immigration Modernization Act of 2013

A:  that was a 10 year budget of $40billion ( ie' $4 billion per year ) passed by a very bi partisan Senate 68 - 32

B: that the GOP House would not even consider it because

  1.  Obama wanted it.
  2. it was tied to immigration reform with different paths to citizenship
  3. added 40,000 CBP agents
  4. it restricted H1B visas
  5. and eliminated the Diversity Visa Lottery
all of which Paul Ryan was apparently opposed to.

Kind of ironic isn't it?

House inactivity led to the Obama EO on DACA....

Now I'm assuming if the current House voted for the exact same bill

Senator McConnell would refuse to bring it to the floor.

Sound familiar?

 
 
 
epistte
Junior Guide
6.1.3  epistte  replied to  Jeremy Retired in NC @6.1.1    5 years ago
- sent billions to Iran

That money was theirs and had been frozen in US banks since the late 1970s.  It was released as part of the nuclear agreement.  Thius has been explained to you multiple times and yet you still make this farcical claim that Obama gave Iran money.

Obama didn't willfully arm ISIL. 

When did Obama negotiate with the Taliban?

Why are you now interested in the USA PATRIOT ACT and not in 2002 when it was enacted?

 
 
 
Split Personality
Professor Guide
6.1.4  Split Personality  replied to  Jeremy Retired in NC @6.1.1    5 years ago
- negotiated with the Taliban

Well, it didn't work for Obama in 2013

What makes it OK for Trump in 2018?

or are you saying it's wrong for one President but not another?

U.S. President Donald Trump said on Thursday the United States was “in very strong” peace negotiations in Afghanistan but he did not known whether they would be successful.11/22/2018
 
 
 
Krishna
Professor Expert
6.1.5  seeder  Krishna  replied to  epistte @6.1    5 years ago
The lack of a wall isn't a national emergency.   You should learn about checks and balances

And perhaps even more to the point, he should learn the definition of an "emergency".

There have been YUGE gaps in or border security for many years-- and many people have crossed illegally. For decades.... . . . 

Here's the definition of emergency:

a serious, unexpected, and often dangerous situation requiring immediate action.

If its not "unexpected" its not an emergency.

Illegal border crossings didn't just start when Trump took office-- they been going on for a long , long time. So they are hardly unexpected-- they did not become "unexpected " when Trump took office--so they're not an "emergency".

 
 
 
Don Overton
Sophomore Quiet
6.1.6  Don Overton  replied to  Jeremy Retired in NC @6.1.1    5 years ago

Talking about your comment, [ deleted ]

 
 
 
Dulay
Professor Expert
6.1.7  Dulay  replied to  Jeremy Retired in NC @6.1.1    5 years ago
- sent billions to Iran

 
 
 
The Magic 8 Ball
Masters Quiet
6.1.8  The Magic 8 Ball  replied to  Krishna @6.1.5    5 years ago
they did not become "unexpected " when Trump took office--so they're not an "emergency".

the unexpected lack of action about that known problem is what created the emergency.

we are done waiting... border security is national security. 

 

 

 
 
 
Dulay
Professor Expert
6.1.9  Dulay  replied to  Krishna @6.1.5    5 years ago
Illegal border crossings didn't just start when Trump took office-- they been going on for a long , long time. So they are hardly unexpected-- they did not become "unexpected " when Trump took office--so they're not an "emergency".

As proof for your statement, and a touch stone for how an actual 'emergency' on the border was handled by the prior resident of the WH. 

Instead of sending troops to the border and stringing razor wire, Obama created a 'Unified Coordination Group', lead by the Sec. of DHS and sent FEMA resources to provide 'humanitarian relief to the affected children, including housing, care, medical treatment, and transportation.'

Trump is addressing what Nielsen admits is a 'humanitarian crisis' by dumping hundreds of asylum seekers in the streets of cities across the border, without notifying local authorities and then decrying the fact that churches and communities can't seem to keep up with the influx of 'vulnerable families'. 

 
 
 
Jeremy Retired in NC
Professor Expert
6.1.10  Jeremy Retired in NC  replied to  Dulay @6.1.7    5 years ago

So according to your link, it was, again, negotiating with the enemy / terrorists.

 
 
 
Dulay
Professor Expert
6.1.11  Dulay  replied to  Jeremy Retired in NC @6.1.10    5 years ago

[deleted]

 
 
 
Jeremy Retired in NC
Professor Expert
6.1.12  Jeremy Retired in NC  replied to  Dulay @6.1.11    5 years ago

[Deleted]

 
 
 
Jeremy Retired in NC
Professor Expert
6.1.13  Jeremy Retired in NC  replied to  Split Personality @6.1.4    5 years ago
U.S. President Donald Trump said on Thursday the United States was “in very strong” peace negotiations in Afghanistan but he did not known whether they would be successful.11/22/2018

And you actually believe the negotiations are with the Taliban?  Wow.  That's by far one of the most ignorant and ridiculous things I've heard in a very long time.  

 
 
 
Split Personality
Professor Guide
6.1.14  Split Personality  replied to  Jeremy Retired in NC @6.1.13    5 years ago
And you actually believe the negotiations are with the Taliban?  Wow.  That's by far one of the most ignorant and ridiculous things I've heard in a very long time.  

Well then you aren't participating online enough anymore, eh?

So all of theses varied media stories quoting the POTUS are wrong?

Or did Trump lie to the media about negotiations in Afghanistan.

Come on Jeremy, it has to be one or the other.

Taliban Appear Ready to Discuss Peace Talks, Except With Afghan Officials

Trump's envoy to Afghanistan rushes to launch Taliban peace talks ahead of possible troop pullout: report

White House Orders Direct Taliban Talks to Jump-Start Afghan Negotiations

Pakistan Says Trump Asks Khan To Help Bring Taliban To Peace Talks

Trump says U.S. in 'very strong' negotiations in Afghanistan

and on and on

Taliban seeks image makeover as Afghan peace talks gain momentum

Trump Asks for Pakistan’s Help in Afghan Peace Talks With Taliban

Of course, since the announced 'possible' withdrawal The Taliban walked out of the negotiations 5 days ago; negotiations in Qatar that only included the Taliban and the US, not Afghanistan........

Afghanistan peace talks in doubt after Taliban's abrupt walkout

I tried to include stories from across the partisan/political spectrum for your reading pleasure.

 
 
 
Jeremy Retired in NC
Professor Expert
6.1.15  Jeremy Retired in NC  replied to  Split Personality @6.1.14    5 years ago

Wow, you actually do expect me to believe the negotiations are with the Taliban?  

 
 
 
Dulay
Professor Expert
6.1.16  Dulay  replied to  Jeremy Retired in NC @6.1.10    5 years ago

That link says no such thing. Why lie? 

 
 
 
Split Personality
Professor Guide
6.1.17  Split Personality  replied to  Jeremy Retired in NC @6.1.15    5 years ago
Wow,  you actually do expect me to believe the negotiations are with the Taliban?

01/28/2019

AAapfVx.img?h=40&w=138&m=6&q=60&o=f&l=f&

Taliban and U.S. Agree to Draft of Peace Framework

 
 
 
Studiusbagus
Sophomore Quiet
6.1.18  Studiusbagus  replied to  Split Personality @6.1.17    5 years ago

Hahaha!

That's by far one of the most ignorant and ridiculous things I've heard in a very long time.  

OOOOPS!

 
 
 
arkpdx
Professor Quiet
6.2  arkpdx  replied to  Jeremy Retired in NC @6    5 years ago
Democrats and the left would lose their collective minds.

And it would take them weeks if ever to figure out what was missing. 

 
 
 
The Magic 8 Ball
Masters Quiet
6.3  The Magic 8 Ball  replied to  Jeremy Retired in NC @6    5 years ago
Can you imagine the number of people who would stroke out if the President declared a national emergency? 

LOL.... about the same number as those who stroked out the first time trump declared a national emergency.


I, therefore, determine that serious human rights abuse and corruption around the world constitute an unusual and extraordinary threat to the national security, foreign policy, and economy of the United States, and I hereby declare a national emergency to deal with that threat.

 
 
 
Paula Bartholomew
Professor Participates
6.3.1  Paula Bartholomew  replied to  The Magic 8 Ball @6.3    5 years ago

To Trump, a national emergency would be him missing his tee off time.

 
 
 
The Magic 8 Ball
Masters Quiet
6.3.2  The Magic 8 Ball  replied to  Paula Bartholomew @6.3.1    5 years ago

before trump is done, you will be begging for him to play more golf.

 

 

 
 
 
Paula Bartholomew
Professor Participates
6.3.3  Paula Bartholomew  replied to  The Magic 8 Ball @6.3.2    5 years ago

Even if he played 24/7, he would still find a way to screw this country up.

 
 
 
Jeremy Retired in NC
Professor Expert
6.3.4  Jeremy Retired in NC  replied to  Paula Bartholomew @6.3.1    5 years ago
U.S. President Donald Trump said on Thursday the United States was “in very strong” peace negotiations in Afghanistan but he did not known whether they would be successful.11/22/2018

And yet somehow, with all that time playing golf he's been far more successful in 2 years than his predecessor was in 8.  

 
 
 
Studiusbagus
Sophomore Quiet
6.3.5  Studiusbagus  replied to  Jeremy Retired in NC @6.3.4    5 years ago

To quote you...

That's by far one of the most ignorant and ridiculous things I've heard in a very long time.  
 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
6.4  Vic Eldred  replied to  Jeremy Retired in NC @6    5 years ago

Yup, and it is an emergency for the following reasons:

stopping the flow of:

1) drugs
2) human trafficking
3) possible terrorists and/or criminals
4) caravans & illegal migrants

All of which is incredibly difficult given the protections granted as soon as a migrant sets foot on the US side of the border. In addition congress has been incapable of solving the problem due to the democrats refusal to do anything about it. This past week the Director of Homeland Security was repeatedly interrupted and abused by democratic leaders:

"At one point during the meeting, according to the   Wall Street Journal , Pelosi interrupted Nielsen, who was citing statistics related to the border, including how many criminal illegal immigrants attempted to enter the U.S. last year.

“I reject your facts,” Pelosi told Nielsen

“These aren’t my facts," Nielsen shot back. "These are the facts.”

Following the episode, Nielsen went to social media to criticize Pelosi and the Democrats for not wanting to hear about the issue of illegal immigration.

“I am disappointed that Dems did not want to hear from @DHSgov about the security & humanitarian crisis we are facing at the border,” Nielsen wrote. “They didn’t want to hear about criminal aliens, drug smugglers, smuggled & abused children or violent caravans trying to breach the border wall.”

 
 
 
lady in black
Professor Quiet
6.4.1  lady in black  replied to  Vic Eldred @6.4    5 years ago

She's just parroting trump's alternative facts

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
6.4.2  Vic Eldred  replied to  lady in black @6.4.1    5 years ago

Homeland Security is using alternative facts?  How so?

 
 
 
Cerenkov
Professor Silent
6.4.3  Cerenkov  replied to  Vic Eldred @6.4.2    5 years ago

You won't get a cogent response. Liberals are so deranged now that they shout at clouds and say up is down.

 
 
 
Atheist יוחנן בן אברהם אבינו
Junior Participates
6.4.4  Atheist יוחנן בן אברהם אבינו  replied to  Vic Eldred @6.4    5 years ago
1) drugs
2) human trafficking
3) possible terrorists and/or criminals4) caravans & illegal migrants

Thanks, vic, for that concise list of most of Scumbag's lies about the Southern border.  You should have seen and heard his unintentional comedy bit on the "left turns" and "right turns" that the coyotes make to smuggle people in.  The stupidlying Scumbag never disappoints on the slapstick circuit. 

 
 
 
Dulay
Professor Expert
6.4.5  Dulay  replied to  Vic Eldred @6.4.2    5 years ago
Homeland Security is using alternative facts?  How so?

Well first of all, CBPs 2018 data contradicts Nielsen's numbers. So there's that...

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
6.4.6  Vic Eldred  replied to  Cerenkov @6.4.3    5 years ago

Your'e right. They are petrified that Trump might just declare the crisis a national emergency and proceed to wall construction. They'll be screaming at the sky again!

 
 
 
Thrawn 31
Professor Guide
6.4.7  Thrawn 31  replied to  Vic Eldred @6.4    5 years ago
1) drugs2) human trafficking3) possible terrorists and/or criminals

A wall won't stop any of that. And terrorists don't entire the country by wandering through the desert, what a stupid way of going about it. Why not just use the internet and recruit homegrown terrorists? Oh wait...

 
 
 
Don Overton
Sophomore Quiet
6.4.8  Don Overton  replied to  Vic Eldred @6.4    5 years ago

1,2,3,4 can't be stopped with a wall

 
 
 
Don Overton
Sophomore Quiet
6.4.9  Don Overton  replied to  Vic Eldred @6.4.6    5 years ago

He can declare a national emergency but if successful with that, he still won't get the money.  Oh ye of little knowledge of how congress works

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
6.4.10  Vic Eldred  replied to  Don Overton @6.4.9    5 years ago
gency but if successful with that, he still won't get the money. 

I hate to be the bearer of bad tidings, but it is you who donsen't know how that works:

"The funding process is an annual event. Congress is tasked with producing a budget resolution and 12 appropriations bills for each federal fiscal year, which begins on Oct. 1. Other funding legislation, such as emergency funding in response to a natural disaster, frequently occurs outside of the standard process."




 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
6.4.11  Vic Eldred  replied to  Don Overton @6.4.8    5 years ago

1,2,3,4 can't be stopped with a wall

Why not?

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
6.4.12  Vic Eldred  replied to  Vic Eldred @6.4.10    5 years ago

"This course of action is most commonly seen in what is known as emergency funding. Emergency funding is essentially what it sounds like: supplemental funding provided in response to an unanticipated emergency, particularly natural disasters. Over the last decade, it has also become common to fund ongoing overseas military operations—most notably those in Iraq and Afghanistan—outside of the traditional defense appropriations bill through emergency appropriations. One of the appeals of this approach to lawmakers is that funding designated as emergency funding is not subject to the limits imposed by budget resolutions or committee allocations."

ews-room/Pages/A-Brief-Guide-to-the-Federal-Budget-and-Appropriations-Process.aspx

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
6.4.13  Texan1211  replied to  Vic Eldred @6.4.12    5 years ago

I think someone's Google stopped working, or maybe it hasn't been figured out how to work it yet?

The drive-by "Wrong!!!" or "Make believe!!" and "Prove it!!" is getting stale from some here.

 
 
 
Cerenkov
Professor Silent
6.4.14  Cerenkov  replied to  Texan1211 @6.4.13    5 years ago

It's not worth engaging with some liberal NPCs.

 
 
 
Dulay
Professor Expert
6.4.15  Dulay  replied to  Vic Eldred @6.4    5 years ago
“These aren’t my facts," Nielsen shot back. "These are the facts.”

Yet it's pretty clear that they ARE Nielsen's 'facts'. 

This isn't the first time that the Trump DOJ/DHS fabricated 'facts'. 

 
 
 
arkpdx
Professor Quiet
6.4.16  arkpdx  replied to  Thrawn 31 @6.4.7    5 years ago
A wall won't stop any of that.

And gun laws won't keep bad guys from obtaining weapons, red light cameras don't stop all people that run red lights,  alcohol laws don't keep teens from drinking and drug abusers are still able to get drugs. Nothing will be 100% effective ever. Do you propose we stop passing laws because they are not 100%efective?

 
 
 
Dulay
Professor Expert
6.4.18  Dulay  replied to    5 years ago

You're entitled to your opinion. 

I do however encourage you to follow the CBP and DEA links provided in the article that PROVE that Nielsen's data is BULLSHIT. 

It's on you to figure out what to believe. 

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
6.4.19  Vic Eldred  replied to  Dulay @6.4.15    5 years ago

And "Think Progress" has it's own facts. I'm more concerned with the way the current class of liberal congressmen have abused the Director of DHS.

 
 
 
Dulay
Professor Expert
6.4.20  Dulay  replied to  Vic Eldred @6.4.19    5 years ago
And "Think Progress" has it's own facts.

Really Vic? What did Think Progress get wrong in that article? 

I'm more concerned with the way the current class of liberal congressmen have abused the Director of DHS.

Again really Vic? Who abused Nielsen and how was she abused? Please be specific. 

 
 
 
Studiusbagus
Sophomore Quiet
6.4.22  Studiusbagus  replied to  Vic Eldred @6.4.2    5 years ago
Homeland Security is using alternative facts?  How so?

Kirstjen Nielsen Lied to Congress About Trump’s War on Migrant Children

Nielsen claimed that Customs and Border Protection had arrested 17,000 people with criminal records at the border, one of the people familiar with the meeting said. Pelosi responded that it wasn’t true and the administration was counting anyone who crossed the border illegally as having a criminal record.

According to DHS’s own statistics, in fiscal year 2017, DHS detained 2,554 individuals on the terrorist watch list who were trying to enter the United States from all ports of entry across the globe, but only 335 of them were traveling by land. Most were encountered at airports.

Yeah....she lied.

 
 
 
Thrawn 31
Professor Guide
6.5  Thrawn 31  replied to  Jeremy Retired in NC @6    5 years ago
human trafficking or drug smuggling?

Be careful what you wish for, once the precedent is set other presidents will be more than happy to do it too.

 
 
 
bbl-1
Professor Quiet
7  bbl-1    5 years ago

Trump always makes these grand claims.  "Mexico will pay for the wall.  I have the biggest brain.  Montenegro is a dangerous-aggressive nation bent on starting WW3.  I would have ran into that school and confronted the shooter."  And so many more.

This wall thing is weird.  Did not the Trump also promise the sea of MAGA Hats that their Trump Healthcare would be cheap and beautiful?  What happened to that?   

 
 
 
pat wilson
Professor Participates
7.1  pat wilson  replied to  bbl-1 @7    5 years ago

Ya, where is that trumpcare ???

 
 
 
bbl-1
Professor Quiet
7.1.1  bbl-1  replied to  pat wilson @7.1    5 years ago

Yeah.  What happened to that TrumpCare?  Has anyone ever asked him about it since he's been installed by the Putin crowd?

 
 
 
Atheist יוחנן בן אברהם אבינו
Junior Participates
7.1.2  Atheist יוחנן בן אברהם אבינו  replied to  pat wilson @7.1    5 years ago
Ya, where is that trumpcare ???

I believe it will be found when Scumbag has his next colonoscopy.  

 
 
 
The Magic 8 Ball
Masters Quiet
7.2  The Magic 8 Ball  replied to  bbl-1 @7    5 years ago
Mexico will pay for the wall. 

at least  "you can keep your doctor"

 
 
 
Atheist יוחנן בן אברהם אבינו
Junior Participates
7.2.1  Atheist יוחנן בן אברהם אבינו  replied to  The Magic 8 Ball @7.2    5 years ago
at least  "you can keep your doctor"

Under Scumbag that needs to be amended to "you don't get no stinkin' doctor!"

 
 
 
Thrawn 31
Professor Guide
7.2.2  Thrawn 31  replied to  The Magic 8 Ball @7.2    5 years ago
at least  "you can keep your doctor"

I was always able to.

 
 
 
epistte
Junior Guide
7.2.3  epistte  replied to  The Magic 8 Ball @7.2    5 years ago
at least  "you can keep your doctor"

What was the Republican alternative, except to not get sick? Where is Trump's great ACA alternative that he promised was so much better?

No one knows exactly how many people got notices, because the health insurance market is largely private and highly fragmented. Analysts estimated the number at about 4 million (and potentially higher), out of a total insured population of about 262 million. That was less than 2 percent, but there was no shortage of powerful anecdotes about canceled coverage.
 
 
 
lady in black
Professor Quiet
7.2.4  lady in black  replied to  epistte @7.2.3    5 years ago

What happened to the orange shit stain's promise of a 10% tax cut for the middle class he taunted us with before the election....same place trumpcare is...more fucking lies and sad that people are so blind to his lies

 
 
 
lady in black
Professor Quiet
7.2.5  lady in black  replied to  Thrawn 31 @7.2.2    5 years ago

Same here, none of my doctors changed.

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
7.2.6  Texan1211  replied to  lady in black @7.2.4    5 years ago
What happened to the orange shit stain's promise of a 10% tax cut for the middle class he taunted us with before the election....same place trumpcare is...more fucking lies and sad that people are so blind to he's lies

Will you be just as disappointed if the new Democratic Congress doesn't pass a tax cut?

You know they have talked of actually RAISING taxes, don't you?

 
 
 
epistte
Junior Guide
7.2.7  epistte  replied to  lady in black @7.2.5    5 years ago
Same here, none of my doctors changed.

I have a pre-existing condition, so the ACA saved my life. 

 
 
 
Cerenkov
Professor Silent
7.2.8  Cerenkov  replied to  epistte @7.2.7    5 years ago

Pre existing condition coverage existed prior to Obamacare.

 
 
 
epistte
Junior Guide
7.2.10  epistte  replied to    5 years ago

No.  

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
7.2.11  Texan1211  replied to  Cerenkov @7.2.8    5 years ago

Maybe her state didn't have any provisions for people with pre-existing conditions.

 
 
 
epistte
Junior Guide
7.2.12  epistte  replied to  Cerenkov @7.2.8    5 years ago
Pre existing condition coverage existed prior to Obamacare.

There were no high-risk pools in Ohio.

 
 
 
Cerenkov
Professor Silent
7.2.13  Cerenkov  replied to  lady in black @7.2.5    5 years ago

Other people weren't so... privileged.

 
 
 
Cerenkov
Professor Silent
7.2.14  Cerenkov  replied to  lady in black @7.2.4    5 years ago

Probably the same thing that happened to his wall promise... Congress.

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
7.2.15  Texan1211  replied to  Cerenkov @7.2.14    5 years ago

Remember when people complained about Obama not closing Gitmo?

Remember what the reason why he failed was?

"Congress wouldn't allow it"!!

LOL!

 
 
 
lady in black
Professor Quiet
7.2.16  lady in black  replied to  Cerenkov @7.2.13    5 years ago

I am far from privileged, just have good health insurance.

My late husband had great health insurance and he didn't pay a lot for it, his company paid the bulk of it and thankfully he had great insurance since he battled pancreatic cancer and lost the battle.  Otherwise I would have had to claim bankruptcy.

 
 
 
PJ
Masters Quiet
7.2.17  PJ  replied to  Cerenkov @7.2.8    5 years ago

Did the insurance companies know this?  

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
7.2.18  Texan1211  replied to  PJ @7.2.17    5 years ago
Did the insurance companies know this?

If they didn't, they were blind and stupidly-ran.

35 states had high-risk pools before Obamacare was passed.

It wasn't a big secret or anything.

 
 
 
Cerenkov
Professor Silent
7.2.19  Cerenkov  replied to  PJ @7.2.17    5 years ago

Yes. It was the law. 

 
 
 
Cerenkov
Professor Silent
7.2.20  Cerenkov  replied to  epistte @7.2.12    5 years ago

So? Pre existing conditions were still covered if you maintained insurance.

 
 
 
PJ
Masters Quiet
7.2.21  PJ  replied to  Cerenkov @7.2.19    5 years ago

That's so weird that the government would pass a 2nd duplicate law mandating insurance companies insure people with pre-existing conditions at reasonable rates.  

Why would they pass 2 laws for the same requirement?

 
 
 
Cerenkov
Professor Silent
7.2.22  Cerenkov  replied to  PJ @7.2.21    5 years ago

Because ACA superseded the old law? Facts are facts.

 
 
 
PJ
Masters Quiet
7.2.23  PJ  replied to  Texan1211 @7.2.18    5 years ago

Wow - It certainly must have been a secret and one of the best kept secrets ever.  It was sooooo secret that the government passed a law mandating it not knowing there was already a law requiring it. 

So, what's all the fuss about the ACA if it already existing?

 
 
 
lady in black
Professor Quiet
7.2.24  lady in black  replied to  Cerenkov @7.2.20    5 years ago

Before the ACA

In 2010, President Obama passed the Affordable Care Act. Before this, it was up to states and insurance companies to set regulations about pre existing conditions. Unfortunately, during this time,   many insurance companies denied   coverage to those with this type of condition. They also charged them higher premium rates and could offer coverage for everything except the pre existing condition. Companies were also allowed to use an annual or lifetime cap on coverage. This meant that people with chronic conditions that required expensive treatment could run out of insurance quickly. This often left them with large and unmanageable medical bills.

Many states in the country allowed insurance companies to do this and did not provide coverage for pre existing conditions. These states used exclusion periods and elimination riders so they could avoid paying for people with pre existing conditions’ health coverage. These regulations mainly applied to   the individual health insurance market , not the group plans that many people join through their employer. In fact, many Americans did not even realize the individual market was different until they lost their jobs and their group coverage. A loss of group coverage meant paying the entire premium without an employer subsidy. This made it difficult to find affordable health insurance and many were priced out of affording healthcare because of a pre existing condition.

Pre Existing Conditions

Every HMO had their own list   of pre existing conditions that could possibly trigger denial or higher premiums. Insurance companies also employed hundreds of underwriters whose only job was to make decisions about whether or not an applicant was suitable for coverage. If they felt an applicant would be a risk, they mailed out a rejection letter.

During the health care reform debate, Congress led an investigation into this practice. It uncovered that more than 400 medical conditions or diagnoses were used to justify a denial of coverage. Some of the conditions on the list included:

  • Cancer
  • Diabetes
  • Hepatitis
  • Mental Disorders
  • Pregnancy
  • And many more

This investigation only surveyed four large insurers and covered a three year period from 2007 to 2009. These four companies alone denied health coverage to 651,000 individuals because of pre existing conditions. This translates to one in seven people who applied for health insurance. The investigation also found that the number of denials increased year after year.

 
 
 
PJ
Masters Quiet
7.2.25  PJ  replied to  Cerenkov @7.2.22    5 years ago

I feel so silly as I'm sure most people will after they learn that there was no reason to pass the ACA since an identical law already existed.

Do you have a link to the previous law that you can share.

 
 
 
Cerenkov
Professor Silent
7.2.26  Cerenkov  replied to  PJ @7.2.25    5 years ago

The bottom line:  If you had at least  18 months of health coverage  at your previous job and you enrolled in your new employer-sponsored health plan without a break of 63 days or more, your new health plan could not subject you to a pre-existing condition exclusion. This consumer protection was already in place before the ACA, and efforts to repeal and replace the ACA (in 2017 but also potential future efforts) would not impact this provision, as it's part of HIPAA rather than the ACA.

 
 
 
Cerenkov
Professor Silent
7.2.27  Cerenkov  replied to  Cerenkov @7.2.26    5 years ago

The law was called HIPAA.

You do know that you can't buy life insurance for someone after they die, right?

 
 
 
lady in black
Professor Quiet
7.2.28  lady in black  replied to  Cerenkov @7.2.26    5 years ago
Many states in the country allowed insurance companies to do this and did not provide coverage for pre existing conditions. These states used exclusion periods and elimination riders so they could avoid paying for people with pre existing conditions’ health coverage. These regulations mainly applied to the individual health insurance market, not the group plans that many people join through their employer. In fact, many Americans did not even realize the individual market was different until they lost their jobs and their group coverage. A loss of group coverage meant paying the entire premium without an employer subsidy. This made it difficult to find affordable health insurance and many were priced out of affording healthcare because of a pre existing condition.

 
 
 
Cerenkov
Professor Silent
7.2.29  Cerenkov  replied to  lady in black @7.2.28    5 years ago

You do know that you can't buy life insurance for someone after they die, right?

 
 
 
PJ
Masters Quiet
7.2.30  PJ  replied to  Cerenkov @7.2.26    5 years ago

Cerenkov - I know you're not that gullible.  The law had loopholes that the insurance companies took advantage of, that's why a federal law was passed.  We can certainly discuss whether we agree or disagree with the ACA but it's a farce to say that previous laws were working for everyone.

 
 
 
lady in black
Professor Quiet
7.2.31  lady in black  replied to  Cerenkov @7.2.29    5 years ago

No shit sherlock, never said ANYTHING about LIFE insurance.  I was talking about HEALTH insurance.

Do you think it's amusing that my husband died

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
7.2.33  Texan1211  replied to  PJ @7.2.23    5 years ago
Wow - It certainly must have been a secret and one of the best kept secrets ever. It was sooooo secret that the government passed a law mandating it not knowing there was already a law requiring it. 

Who said anything about any law mandating it? Federal law and state law are two different things. There are some federal laws virtually identical to some state laws.

So, what's all the fuss about the ACA if it already existing?

The PPACA didn't solely affect pre-existing conditions. I would suggest that much opposition to it has as much to do with the government forcing American citizens to buy a product  and that doesn't sit well with some of us.

Who knew that some Americans would like a government which doesn't decide how they spend their money.

 
 
 
Don Overton
Sophomore Quiet
7.2.34  Don Overton  replied to  The Magic 8 Ball @7.2    5 years ago

we did guess  you are wrong

 
 
 
Don Overton
Sophomore Quiet
7.2.35  Don Overton  replied to  Texan1211 @7.2.6    5 years ago

Prove it tex

 
 
 
Don Overton
Sophomore Quiet
7.2.36  Don Overton  replied to  Cerenkov @7.2.8    5 years ago

wrong

 
 
 
Don Overton
Sophomore Quiet
7.2.37  Don Overton  replied to  Texan1211 @7.2.33    5 years ago

More make believe

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
7.2.38  Texan1211  replied to  Don Overton @7.2.35    5 years ago
Prove it tex

I am not sure why research must be provided for you, but here it is. Let me know if there is anything else I "need" to look up for you.

https://www.forbes.com/.../2018/03/09/democrats-release-tax-hike-plan

https://legalinsurrection.com/2018/04/democrats-give-us-the-house...

https://www.investopedia.com/articles/economics/09/us-parties...

https://thehill.com/opinion/campaign/380053-midterm-promises-dems...

Always glad to help!

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
7.2.39  Texan1211  replied to  Don Overton @7.2.37    5 years ago
More make believe

Just because CNN and MSNBC didn't tell you what to think about it doesn't mean it is fake.

Spend 5 minutes of your time researching instead of accusing others of making stuff up and you may even learn something.

 
 
 
Cerenkov
Professor Silent
7.2.40  Cerenkov  replied to  Texan1211 @7.2.39    5 years ago

Seems unlikely based on past comments. 

 
 
 
Studiusbagus
Sophomore Quiet
7.2.42  Studiusbagus  replied to    5 years ago

Oh poor you.....

How come you aren't telling the rest of the story?

Like you have a child born with health issues?

Or that you work in a particularly dangerous and toxic industry?

Nahhhhh, that wouldn't make a difference now would it?

Did you think some of us forgot when you made that statement?

Why are you trying to bullshit people?

 
 
 
Sister Mary Agnes Ample Bottom
Professor Guide
8  Sister Mary Agnes Ample Bottom    5 years ago

I am sick to death of this incompetent and morally bankrupt ignoramus, his ridiculous family and their own morally questionable shenanigans, and the ass-kissing yes-men with whom he has surrounded himself.  

Donald Trump has an impressive pre-election track record for screwing the little people out of their paychecks, and he has no problem doing that same thing now to the 800,000 government employees who are struggling to make house payments.

While I believe that border security is important, what Trump is doing now, is ringing the dinner bell for those who want to do us harm.  His temper-tantrum-induced shutdown has left our physical borders and our airports understaffed to a dangerous degree.  

By the way, I doubt that Trump's motivation is based entirely on national safety.  He owns stock in several companies that have, or will have, a significant role in border wall construction.

Geo

Geo is a real estate investment trust that owns and operates private prisons; it has more than 100 facilities in the U.S. and abroad.  Trump's plans to up immigration enforcement will almost certainly benefit Geo, which already has a relationship with U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement. (ICE accounted for 17.7% of its revenues in 2015.)  And PS:  Geo donated $125,000 to a Trump super-pac during his campaign.

Cemex

 Cemex is a materials company that specializes in cement and concrete.

Elbit Systems

Elbit Systems is an Israel-based company that builds defense electronic systems and integrated battle systems for air, sea, land and space.  They have already been enlisted to build a virtual wall at the Arizona border, in 2014 winning a $145 million contract from the Department of Homeland Security.

United States Steel

Just the name of the company speaks for itself.

Steel Dynamics

Steel Dynamics is a steel producing and metal recycling company.

Tetra Tech

Tetra Tech is a provider of environmental engineering and consulting services headquartered in Pasadena, Calif. The company has been contracted to work on border fencing projects by the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers in the past.

 
 
 
lady in black
Professor Quiet
8.1  lady in black  replied to  Sister Mary Agnes Ample Bottom @8    5 years ago

Not to mention supposed intelligent people that back this orange traitor in chief and all his blowhard hot air.

 
 
 
Cerenkov
Professor Silent
8.1.1  Cerenkov  replied to  lady in black @8.1    5 years ago

Sorry libs. Some of us are concerned with illegal immigration, human trafficking, drug trafficking, and terrorism. You all just keep embracing open borders and party over nation. 

 
 
 
lib50
Professor Silent
8.1.2  lib50  replied to  Cerenkov @8.1.1    5 years ago

Who wants open borders?  That is a LIE by the gop.  A wall is not the best or most effective way to stop the problem, it just happens to be Trumps favorite, which he said Mexico would pay for.  Expecting US taxpayers to foot the bill after republicans already exploded the deficit is delusional.  How exactly does a wall stop terrorism?  Since they rarely come from our southern border.

How about the people who want the wall pay for it and leave the rest of America be.

 
 
 
Atheist יוחנן בן אברהם אבינו
Junior Participates
8.1.3  Atheist יוחנן בן אברהם אבינו  replied to  Cerenkov @8.1.1    5 years ago
Some of us are concerned with illegal immigration, human trafficking, drug trafficking, and terrorism.

No they're not.  Those are just cover lies for racism.  We know and they know it.  No use still trying to put lipstick on that pig. 

 
 
 
Cerenkov
Professor Silent
8.1.4  Cerenkov  replied to  Atheist יוחנן בן אברהם אבינו @8.1.3    5 years ago

False racebaiting is about the level of rhetoric I have come to expect from the left.

Despite the bigotry of your comment, you still won't address those issues.

 
 
 
Jasper2529
Professor Quiet
8.1.5  Jasper2529  replied to  Atheist יוחנן בן אברהם אבינו @8.1.3    5 years ago
No they're not.  Those are just cover lies for racism.  We know and they know it.  No use still trying to put lipstick on that pig. 

So the illegal alien nationals from Poland, Canada, UK/Ireland, Portugal, etc., are brown/black-skinned folks?  Who knew?!

 
 
 
Atheist יוחנן בן אברהם אבינו
Junior Participates
8.1.6  Atheist יוחנן בן אברהם אבינו  replied to  Jasper2529 @8.1.5    5 years ago
So the illegal alien nationals from Poland, Canada, UK/Ireland, Portugal, etc., are brown/black-skinned folks? 

Oh, puhleeze.....is that what the wall on the southern border is for.  I'll bet you couldn't even keep from laughing at yourself with that lame "argument."  

 
 
 
Atheist יוחנן בן אברהם אבינו
Junior Participates
8.1.7  Atheist יוחנן בן אברהם אבינו  replied to  Cerenkov @8.1.4    5 years ago
Despite the bigotry of your comment, you still won't address those issues.

That is perfect demonstration of the desperation of projection. 

 
 
 
Jasper2529
Professor Quiet
8.1.8  Jasper2529  replied to  Atheist יוחנן בן אברהם אבינו @8.1.6    5 years ago

I view illegal immigration as a very serious threat to our nation. It is not a laughing matter when US citizens and legal immigrants are murdered by illegal aliens.

 
 
 
1stwarrior
Professor Participates
8.1.9  1stwarrior  replied to  Atheist יוחנן בן אברהם אבינו @8.1.6    5 years ago

A perfect demonstration from someone who hasn't a clue of who is actually crossing the border illegally.

Here's a hint - 

According to the U.S. Department of Homeland Security, the countries of origin for the largest numbers of illegal immigrants are as follows (latest of 2017):

Country of origin Raw number Percent of total
Mexico 6,640,000 55
El Salvador 700,000 6
Guatemala 640,000 5
India 430,000 4
Honduras 400,000 3
Philippines 360,000 3
China 270,000 2
Korea 250,000 2
Vietnam 200,000 2
Dominican Republic 180,000 1
Other 2,050,000 17

The   Urban Institute   also estimates "between 65,000 and 75,000 Canadians currently live illegally in the United States."

Doesn't look like just "brown/black-skinned folks" to me.

 
 
 
Jasper2529
Professor Quiet
8.1.10  Jasper2529  replied to  1stwarrior @8.1.9    5 years ago
Doesn't look like just "brown/black-skinned folks" to me.

Some folks also don't know that there are tens of millions of people in Mexico and Central/South America who are not brown/black skinned.

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
8.1.11  Texan1211  replied to  lib50 @8.1.2    5 years ago
How about the people who want the wall pay for it and leave the rest of America be.

Would you have had the same sentiments had everyone decided that was okay with the PPACA, too?

 
 
 
Kavika
Professor Principal
8.1.12  Kavika   replied to  1stwarrior @8.1.9    5 years ago
Doesn't look like just "brown/black-skinned folks" to me.

No they don't because there are Asia folks in there. So yeah, mostly brown/black and Asian in the top ten. 

 
 
 
Atheist יוחנן בן אברהם אבינו
Junior Participates
8.1.13  Atheist יוחנן בן אברהם אבינו  replied to  Jasper2529 @8.1.8    5 years ago
It is not a laughing matter when US citizens and legal immigrants are murdered by illegal aliens.

You're right.  It's part of the Big Lie about immigrants and racist lies are never funny.  

 
 
 
Cerenkov
Professor Silent
8.1.14  Cerenkov  replied to  Atheist יוחנן בן אברהם אבינו @8.1.13    5 years ago

All those victims are actually alive? Prove it please.

 
 
 
Cerenkov
Professor Silent
8.1.15  Cerenkov  replied to  Atheist יוחנן בן אברהם אבינו @8.1.7    5 years ago

That's funny coming from the racebaiting party.

 
 
 
Atheist יוחנן בן אברהם אבינו
Junior Participates
8.1.16  Atheist יוחנן בן אברהם אבינו  replied to  Cerenkov @8.1.15    5 years ago
That's funny coming from the racebaiting party.

Ah, grasshopper, the projection is particularly strong today.  

 
 
 
Atheist יוחנן בן אברהם אבינו
Junior Participates
8.1.17  Atheist יוחנן בן אברהם אבינו  replied to  Cerenkov @8.1.14    5 years ago
All those victims are actually alive?

I realize facts are like poison to some, nevertheless they persist:

512

Time after time and study after study shows that violent crimes committed immigrants, whether here legally or illegally, are well below rates by "native-born" citizens.  

 
 
 
Sean Treacy
Professor Principal
8.1.19  Sean Treacy  replied to  Atheist יוחנן בן אברהם אבינו @8.1.17    5 years ago

[deleted]

Seriously, it amazes me that some people think this is responsive.  You, doing a Goebbels impression, claimed it was a "big lie" that illegal aliens murder Americans. 

And then you post data showing illegal aliens commit violent crime. 

Here's a hint, if you want to back up your statement, prove that illegal aliens have never killed an American.  

[deleted]

 
 
 
Atheist יוחנן בן אברהם אבינו
Junior Participates
8.1.20  Atheist יוחנן בן אברהם אבינו  replied to  Sean Treacy @8.1.19    5 years ago
removed for context

You couldn't possibly begin understand how "funny" that is coming from you and your fellow travelers who churn out lies by the tanker load on this and, well, every subject.  [deleted]

removed for context
 
 
 
Atheist יוחנן בן אברהם אבינו
Junior Participates
8.1.21  Atheist יוחנן בן אברהם אבינו  replied to  Atheist יוחנן בן אברהם אבינו @8.1.17    5 years ago

I predicted how toxic the facts about immigrants and violent crime would be to the professional grade liars about this topic and, right on cue, they showed up in force to prove it. 

 
 
 
Sean Treacy
Professor Principal
8.1.22  Sean Treacy  replied to  Atheist יוחנן בן אברהם אבינו @8.1.21    5 years ago

Notice how you avoided supporting your claim and stooped to name calling? [deleted]

prove that illegal immigrants have never killed Americans.  You called it a “big Lie” that immigrants have killed Americans.  Try and back  up with your nonsensical claim with facts, for once.

[deleted]

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
8.1.23  Texan1211  replied to  Atheist יוחנן בן אברהם אבינו @8.1.13    5 years ago
It is not a laughing matter when US citizens and legal immigrants are murdered by illegal aliens.
You're right. It's part of the Big Lie about immigrants and racist lies are never funny.

Are you actually trying to claim illegal aliens don't commit murder here?

LMFAO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Whoo BOY!

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
8.1.24  Texan1211  replied to  Sean Treacy @8.1.22    5 years ago
prove that illegal immigrants have never killed Americans.

Can't prove it, so will ignore.

 
 
 
Dulay
Professor Expert
8.1.25  Dulay  replied to  1stwarrior @8.1.9    5 years ago

The very next sentence @ your link is as follows:

Trends
In 2017, illegal border crossing arrests hit a 46-year low, and were down 25% from the previous year.

 
 
 
Atheist יוחנן בן אברהם אבינו
Junior Participates
8.1.26  Atheist יוחנן בן אברהם אבינו  replied to  Texan1211 @8.1.23    5 years ago
Are you actually trying to claim illegal aliens don't commit murder here?

Oh, is the deflection is ever strong.  Or is it a straw-man.  Same thing really.   Better spell it out though just so even Tex can't twist it (oh, she'll try again, though, to be sure):  N-O!

I'll put the chart up again just for fun (realizing Tex still won't accept it or even "get" it):

384

In short, this graph shows that where undocumented immigrants are most concentrated in the general population the rate of violent crimes committed by them drops .  

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
8.1.27  Texan1211  replied to  Atheist יוחנן בן אברהם אבינו @8.1.26    5 years ago

Your inability to understand my post betrays you again.

You posted this.

It is not a laughing matter when US citizens and legal immigrants are murdered by illegal aliens.
You're right. It's part of the Big Lie about immigrants and racist lies are never funny.

Now, if you DIDN'T mean that illegal aliens commit murder, WTF DID you mean??????

You claimed it a LIE that U.S. citizens and LEGAL immigrants are murdered by illegal aliens.

It has been proven to you that your statement is FALSE.

Please stop digging.

 
 
 
Kavika
Professor Principal
9  Kavika     5 years ago

Cemex will prove to be interesting. They are a Mexican company headquartered in Monterrey Mexico. One of the largest building material companies in the world. 

So, the US will be paying Mexico to build the wall...LOL

 
 
 
Dean Moriarty
Professor Quiet
9.1  Dean Moriarty  replied to  Kavika @9    5 years ago

They say not. 

Under pressure, Mexican-owned Cemex says it won't help build Trump's border wall

 
 
 
Split Personality
Professor Guide
9.1.1  Split Personality  replied to  Dean Moriarty @9.1    5 years ago

Good article.

Interesting conundrum for Mexican companies.

 
 
 
Atheist יוחנן בן אברהם אבינו
Junior Participates
10  Atheist יוחנן בן אברהם אבינו    5 years ago

I saw the clip where a reporter asked him if he'd thought about using executive power (which he doesn't have) to just unilaterally order the wall to be built.  It was as obvious as it could possibly be that Scumbag was caught off guard by the question and had never considered that at all but, true to form, decided to fake it with one of his usual slitherings:  "Oh, yeah, I've thought about it and I could certainly do that (he couldn't) but I probably wouldn't do it." What. A. Lying. Pussy. 

 
 
 
It Is ME
Masters Guide
11  It Is ME    5 years ago

Gotta luv the media types. Tons of non-essential fillers of everything else but an actual WHY "A presidential declaration of a national emergency to construct a border wall would likely face legal challenges".

What challenges ?

What problems ?

Which "Law" ?

What "Expert" says so ?

ETC..………………………. 

 
 
 
lennylynx
Sophomore Quiet
12  lennylynx    5 years ago

The wall ain't happening...Trump's just going to have to be happy with the beaded curtain.

 
 
 
devangelical
Professor Principal
13  devangelical    5 years ago

6 figure fines for any business per every illegal immigrant hired since the reagan amnesty

1 year in prison per hire for everyone involved in hiring illegal immigrants and forfeiture of assets

DACA approval and a rebuilt and fair national immigration policy

national e-verify policy for hiring

...or the russian puppet in the white house can bend over and pull that wall out of his fat ass

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
13.2  Texan1211  replied to  devangelical @13    5 years ago
6 figure fines for any business per every illegal immigrant hired since the reagan amnesty
1 year in prison per hire for everyone involved in hiring illegal immigrants and forfeiture of assets
DACA approval and a rebuilt and fair national immigration policy
national e-verify policy for hiring
...or the russian puppet in the white house can bend over and pull that wall out of his fat ass

6 figure fine?

Good luck collecting from businesses in that amount! LOL

A year in prison and forfeiture of assets? LMAO! Guess some have never heard of "cruel and unusual punishment"!

DACA? Unnecessary and unwanted. Merely encourages MORE illegal aliens to come here. Ridiculous fucking policy anyway!

Rebuilt and fair national immigration policy? We HAVE one already!

National E-verify? Ding, ding, ding, FINALLY a sane solution to something!

 
 
 
Atheist יוחנן בן אברהם אבינו
Junior Participates
13.2.1  Atheist יוחנן בן אברהם אבינו  replied to  Texan1211 @13.2    5 years ago

That's a perfect laundry list for those who want to make immigration a permanent issue to rally xenophobes, white supremacists and alt-right extremists. 

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
13.2.2  Texan1211  replied to  Atheist יוחנן בן אברהם אבינו @13.2.1    5 years ago

Why do so many liberal, progressive Democrats confuse IMMIGRATION with ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION?

LMFAO

 
 
 
True American Pat
Freshman Silent
15  True American Pat    5 years ago

Unlike Drones, More Boarder Agents, Sensors and other Technology......a wall is a permanent structure.....Once it is built....it would be very difficult to do away with it (Defund).....In my opinion, that is a big factor in why so many Democrats don't want a wall.....Not to mention they can't stand for Trump to get a political win....As far as him using the "National Emergency" route.....I'm not sure what would stop him....

 
 
 
PJ
Masters Quiet
15.1  PJ  replied to  True American Pat @15    5 years ago

I just want to remind those who are turning their cheek while Trump redefines executive privileges that he will not be President forever and the republicans will not always be in charge.  

There have been one dangerous precedence after another set during this Administration and future leaders may continue this practice and disregard the other EQUAL branches of government when they get in charge.  

This presidency will be haunting our country for generations to come and long after his base is gone.

 
 
 
True American Pat
Freshman Silent
15.1.1  True American Pat  replied to  PJ @15.1    5 years ago

You do bring up a good point PJ....but this has been going on long before the Trump Presidency......as far as Trumps Legacy.....that remains to be seen.

 
 
 
PJ
Masters Quiet
15.1.2  PJ  replied to  True American Pat @15.1.1    5 years ago

Respectly, no, what this man and his administration are doing is not business as usual.  That's why there's a special investigation.  That's why so many cabinet members have been fired or left because of unethical misuse of their positions, that's why so many have resigned their posts because they don't trust this president and that's why this administration cannot attract good people.

No, both sides don't do these things and it's false to say they do.  Truth still matters to most Americans.

 
 
 
igknorantzrulz
PhD Quiet
15.1.4  igknorantzrulz  replied to  PJ @15.1.2    5 years ago
ruth still matters to most Americans.

most Americans don't no who ruth is, and this would be how one of there attacks on Truth could start.

Ruthless Truthless Trump, has continued to lie to America, and the world, without regard for the consequences of such careless behavior, and it is truly concerning, that so many continue to support and defend 

The LIAR in Chief

 
 
 
True American Pat
Freshman Silent
15.1.5  True American Pat  replied to  PJ @15.1.2    5 years ago

Actually, Trump is being investigated because the left would love to do nothing more than to negate the election of Donald Trump....the rest is subjective and highly opinionated....IMHO.

 
 
 
PJ
Masters Quiet
15.1.6  PJ  replied to  True American Pat @15.1.5    5 years ago

I agree there are those that just hate this man but the investigation has real results as is evident by the prison sentences and indictments.  

I also understand that there are those who support this man no matter what and don't care about truth and decency.

This is not business as usual and I'm not going to allow his base to suggest it is.  

Facts matter.  I'll give you the last word.

 
 
 
True American Pat
Freshman Silent
15.1.7  True American Pat  replied to  PJ @15.1.6    5 years ago

Every Presidency is different....as far as "results" from the Probe....Has anything come of it with regards to it's "supposed" original intent.....Trump Russian Collusion?....Dig deep enough and squeeze hard enough and there will almost always be indictments when dealing with our Government officials...

And don't feel like you can't comment because of you giving me the last word....This is a free respectful discussion we are having.....Please continue.

 
 
 
Paula Bartholomew
Professor Participates
15.1.8  Paula Bartholomew  replied to  PJ @15.1    5 years ago

I feel sorry for whoever has to fix the damage done by Trump.

 
 
 
Jack_TX
Professor Quiet
15.1.9  Jack_TX  replied to  Paula Bartholomew @15.1.8    5 years ago
I feel sorry for whoever has to fix the damage done by Trump.

Full employment, rising wages.......it's a shitstorm.

 
 
 
Atheist יוחנן בן אברהם אבינו
Junior Participates
15.1.10  Atheist יוחנן בן אברהם אבינו  replied to  True American Pat @15.1.1    5 years ago
as far as Trumps Legacy.....that remains to be seen.

Only as to how corrupt and destructive.  

 
 
 
321steve - realistically thinkin or Duu
Sophomore Guide
15.1.11  321steve - realistically thinkin or Duu   replied to  Jack_TX @15.1.9    5 years ago
Full employment, rising wages.......it's a shitstorm.

at what cost, A shitstrom may really be the result, we'll see what his deregulations effects are later. 

 
 
 
Atheist יוחנן בן אברהם אבינו
Junior Participates
15.1.12  Atheist יוחנן בן אברהם אבינו  replied to  Jack_TX @15.1.9    5 years ago
it's a shitstorm.

Otherwise known as the continued extension of the Obama presidency's gains.  There's a shitstorm all right when the "president" of this country was colluding with Russian fascists to get elected during the campaign and continues to march to the orders of Putin now.  Most recent cases in point:  bizarre comments about the Russian invasion of Afghanistan in 1979, the idea that Montenegro (Montenegro!?!?!?!) is a dangerous Balkan nation and this false claim that Poland is threatening to invade Belarus.  Each of those claims come directly from Putin's false propaganda machine in Russia to justify either past Russian disasters or current and future false justifications for more militaristic involvement in former Soviet satellites à la Ukraine.  He's Putin's puppet and you can actually see the strings.

 
 
 
Jack_TX
Professor Quiet
15.1.13  Jack_TX  replied to  Atheist יוחנן בן אברהם אבינו @15.1.12    5 years ago
Otherwise known as the continued extension of the Obama presidency's gains.

It's amazingly "convenient" how everything that ever goes right in this country is somehow the work of a Democrat, while everything that goes wrong is somehow the work of a Republican.

And by "convenient" I mean brainless and intellectually lazy.

 
 
 
ghostlybear
Freshman Silent
16  ghostlybear    5 years ago

Why hasn't Trump thought about the military to build the Wall. Sea Bees are amazing and probably could do it for 1 billion 

 
 
 
True American Pat
Freshman Silent
16.1  True American Pat  replied to  ghostlybear @16    5 years ago

I think he has thrown that option on the table.

 
 
 
The Magic 8 Ball
Masters Quiet
16.2  The Magic 8 Ball  replied to  ghostlybear @16    5 years ago
Sea Bees are amazing

as a SeaBee I concur 

the difficult we do at once, the impossible takes a minute longer :)

 
 
 
1stwarrior
Professor Participates
16.2.1  1stwarrior  replied to  The Magic 8 Ball @16.2    5 years ago

The Seabee unit down the trail from us in DaNang had a sign posted - "We can and do fix everything - except being able to weld the crack of dawn or put wheels on miscarriages."

 
 
 
The Magic 8 Ball
Masters Quiet
16.2.2  The Magic 8 Ball  replied to  1stwarrior @16.2.1    5 years ago
except being able to weld the crack of dawn

I am SteelWorker (SW2) and would gladly give it a try... LOL

 
 
 
ghostlybear
Freshman Silent
17  ghostlybear    5 years ago

Build the wall and a correctional facility on the other side. Get rid of this court nonsense if your not a citizen the constitution don't apply to you

 
 
 
epistte
Junior Guide
17.1  epistte  replied to  ghostlybear @17    5 years ago
Build the wall and a correctional facility on the other side. Get rid of this court nonsense if your not a citizen the constitution don't apply to you

The rights of the Constitution apply to all people regardless of their citizenship status. Geo W. Bush was slapped in the face by the SCOTUS on this concept.

True, the Bill of Rights applies to everyone, even illegal immigrants. So an immigrant, legal or illegal, prosecuted under the criminal code has the right to due process , a speedy and public trial, and other rights protected by the Fifth and Sixth Amendments . This fact sheet from the National Lawyers Guild outlines a host of rights afforded to immigrants and citizens alike. (There are a few rights reserved for citizens. Among them are the right to vote, the right to hold most federal jobs, and the right to run for political office.)
 
 
 
lennylynx
Sophomore Quiet
17.1.1  lennylynx  replied to  epistte @17.1    5 years ago

Way to slap down the big bad bear! jrSmiley_2_smiley_image.png

 
 
 
True American Pat
Freshman Silent
17.1.2  True American Pat  replied to  epistte @17.1    5 years ago

Declare them enemy combatants.....and don't let them enter the country in the first place.

 
 
 
The Magic 8 Ball
Masters Quiet
17.1.3  The Magic 8 Ball  replied to  epistte @17.1    5 years ago
The rights of the Constitution apply to all people  

only on this side of the fence.

people not from here only get in if we let them. they have no "right to enter.

 

that said...

I would like to see every country in the world adopt a bill of rights exactly like ours.

(word for word.)

if they had free speech backed up by the right to bear arms their countries would not be shit-holes worth leaving.

 

 
 
 
epistte
Junior Guide
17.1.4  epistte  replied to  True American Pat @17.1.2    5 years ago
Declare them enemy combatants.....and don't let them enter the country in the first place.

That is a very high legal standard. Where is your evidence?

 
 
 
True American Pat
Freshman Silent
17.1.5  True American Pat  replied to  epistte @17.1.4    5 years ago

Read #6....." 6. As the commander-in-chief, the president has the authority to determine whether someone is an enemy combatant,  according  to CFR."

 
 
 
epistte
Junior Guide
17.1.6  epistte  replied to  True American Pat @17.1.5    5 years ago

The Supreme Court disagreed with Geo W. Bush. Do you want to try that same argument again, but this time with unarmed immigrants that are seeking refuge from human rights abuses in Central America?

 
 
 
True American Pat
Freshman Silent
17.1.7  True American Pat  replied to  epistte @17.1.6    5 years ago

Are they all seeking refuge from human rights abuses in Central America?.....Also, didn't Mexico say they could stay there and work?......There are plenty of places in Mexico that they can apply for refugee status....and spare themselves the long trip to the wall....

 
 
 
epistte
Junior Guide
17.1.8  epistte  replied to  True American Pat @17.1.7    5 years ago
Are they all seeking refuge from human rights abuses in Central America?.....Also, didn't Mexico say they could stay there and work?......There are plenty of places in Mexico that they can apply for refugee status....and spare themselves the long trip to the wall....

What are you afraid of happening if they come to the US and begin the process to US citizenship?

Where did your family emigrate to the US from?

 
 
 
True American Pat
Freshman Silent
17.1.9  True American Pat  replied to  epistte @17.1.8    5 years ago

You do know that most of them will never show for their court hearing.....Are you afraid of a Wall and Stopping Illegal Immigration?

My Family immigrated from all over the world Legally.....and some of them were here long before Columbus.

 
 
 
epistte
Junior Guide
17.1.10  epistte  replied to  True American Pat @17.1.9    5 years ago
Are you afraid of a Wall and Stopping Illegal Immigration?

Most illegal immigrants came here legally and overstayed their visa, so the wall won't stop that.  Do you want to close all road border crossing, airports and water ports with Mexico?   Do you understand that thousands of Mexicans come to the US every day to work and then go back home at night? Most of the drugs come to the US in truck trailers, so the silly wall doesn't stop that. 

The support for the wall is driven by both ignorance and xenophobia.

 
 
 
True American Pat
Freshman Silent
17.1.11  True American Pat  replied to  epistte @17.1.10    5 years ago

New technology is going to make it easier to detect drugs in Tractor Trailers......and when that happens .....they will go to the open boarder more than they already do......The wall is just one component of boarder security......we need it all.....

 
 
 
Dulay
Professor Expert
17.1.12  Dulay  replied to  True American Pat @17.1.11    5 years ago
The wall is just one component of boarder security......we need it all.....

Yet the GAO report on Trump's WALL found that the CBP has yet to come up with a plan to integrate Trump's WALL with EXISTING technology. 

 
 
 
True American Pat
Freshman Silent
17.1.13  True American Pat  replied to  Dulay @17.1.12    5 years ago

I find it hard to fathom that a wall would make things more difficult for the CBP.....Unlike technological barriers....like sensors, drones etc.....a wall is hard to defund once it is built.....it's a permanent structure....My fear is that as soon as Trump is out of office.....Funding for these "Tech Barriers" will be pulled.....I think you would have to admit that there is folks on both the left and the right that want nothing more than essentially open borders......One side see's potential voters....and the other see's cheap Labor.

 
 
 
Atheist יוחנן בן אברהם אבינו
Junior Participates
17.1.14  Atheist יוחנן בן אברהם אבינו  replied to  epistte @17.1    5 years ago

It never fails to amaze me how these self-styled "patriots" and constitutional egg-spurts can be so abysmally ignorant of that document.  

 
 
 
epistte
Junior Guide
17.1.15  epistte  replied to  True American Pat @17.1.13    5 years ago
One side see's potential voters....and the other see's cheap Labor.

You have it all wrong about us. Why would they be likely voters when we are hard pressed to get more than 75% of American citizens to cast a ballot?  It would be 10-15 years before they are able to vote.

How would they be cheap labor when us wacky progressives support a progressive living minimum wage and unions? 

The fact that most of them are Christian and a lot are Catholics should suggest that the Christian population would welcome them as new members.

 
 
 
Dulay
Professor Expert
17.1.16  Dulay  replied to  True American Pat @17.1.13    5 years ago
One side see's potential voters....

Who they would have to cultivate for decades to bring to fruition. 

and the other see's cheap Labor.

Immediate gratification. 

 
 
 
Dulay
Professor Expert
18  Dulay    5 years ago
You do know that most of them will never show for their court hearing.

75-80% show up for their hearings.

Are you afraid of a Wall and Stopping Illegal Immigration?

Seeking asylum isn't illegal...

 
 
 
True American Pat
Freshman Silent
18.1  True American Pat  replied to  Dulay @18    5 years ago

Hey Dulay.....Long time no debate....How have you been?

Now back to the debate......I looked up your numbers and I think you are correct....and I was wrong.  Thanks for clearing that up......Now....I have a couple questions....What keeps a Terrorist from claiming they seek asylum?  Are these "Asylum Seekers" eligible for Government Aid?

 
 
 
Split Personality
Professor Guide
18.1.1  Split Personality  replied to  True American Pat @18.1    5 years ago
What keeps a Terrorist from claiming they seek asylum?

CIA, NATO and Interpol lists.  Individual governments can request persons be added to the lists.

Of the 4,000 'terrorists' claimed to have been stopped by the Trump Administration

only 6 or 8 were detained at the southern border by CBP because they were on THE list.

The majority have been arrested in airports either on arrival or prevented from boarding planes to the USA while in foreign countries.

 
 
 
True American Pat
Freshman Silent
18.1.2  True American Pat  replied to  Split Personality @18.1.1    5 years ago

How many have crossed and were not even questioned or put through any scrutiny?

 
 
 
True American Pat
Freshman Silent
18.1.3  True American Pat  replied to  Split Personality @18.1.1    5 years ago

Everyone that get's on a plane and goes through our airports get's checked out before they are released into our Country.....can you say the same for our Southern Border?  Do you think that Terrorist don't know about this?

 
 
 
epistte
Junior Guide
18.1.4  epistte  replied to  True American Pat @18.1.3    5 years ago
Everyone that get's on a plane and goes through our airports get's checked out before they are released into our Country.....can you say the same for our Southern Border?  Do you think that Terrorist don't know about this?

Is foreign-born terrorism a major worry for you?  Most terrorist attacks in the US are committed by white male citizens.

This issue is complicated by the recent statements of Guatemalan president Jimmy Morales, who announced that his government  “apprehended close to 100 persons completely involved with terrorists, with ISIS and we have not only detained them within our territory, but they have been deported to their country of origin.” Morales then stated that information about these supposed terrorists (like their names or countries of origin) was classified, which should raise a red flag as governments love to brag about their anti-terrorism actions with specifics even when such bragging is unjustified .

Even if we assume that some members of the migrant caravan are Middle Easterners who might pose a higher terrorism risk, that is still no good reason to bar the Central American migrants from applying for asylum. If some Middle Easterners are in this caravan, they too will be able to apply and face the same terrorism vetting procedures that work so well . There is little evidence that there are Middle Easterners in this caravan, even less that there are actual terrorists, and the risk from terrorists crossing the border has been tiny historically. This time could be different, but there is no real evidence to suggest that it is. Whatever problems may arise due to this caravan, the actual threat of terrorism from its members is very small.

The libertarian Cato group a has a few thoughts and facts in the subject. 

 
 
 
Krishna
Professor Expert
18.1.5  seeder  Krishna  replied to  epistte @18.1.4    5 years ago
Everyone that get's on a plane and goes through our airports get's checked out before they are released into our Country.....can you say the same for our Southern Border? 

And yet, ironically, of the terror attacks on U.S. soil-- how many of  thoseterrorists entered the U,S. by crossing the Mexican border?

In contrast, how many entered the U.S. by plane (or boat) or other ways that did not include crossing the Mexican border?

 
 
 
Krishna
Professor Expert
18.1.6  seeder  Krishna  replied to  True American Pat @18.1.3    5 years ago

Everyone that get's on a plane and goes through our airports get's checked out before they are released into our Country.....can you say the same for our Southern Border? 

There have been allegations that about 4000 potential terrorists were apprehended trying to cross the mexican border into the U.S. !!!

But there's a lot of dis-information about what's really going on in that regard. 

I recently came across an excellent interview by by Chris Wallace of Fox News that really sets the record straight-- an incredible video!!!

 
 
 
epistte
Junior Guide
18.1.7  epistte  replied to  Krishna @18.1.5    5 years ago
And yet, ironically, of the terror attacks on U.S. soil-- how many of  thoseterrorists entered the U,S. by crossing the Mexican border?

In contrast, how many entered the U.S. by plane (or boat) or other ways that did not include crossing the Mexican border?

Without doing a Google search I am not aware of any that cross into the US from the SW Mexican border.  The cost-benefit analysis of the wall just doesn't work.   This is an emotional policy and a very expensive mistake.   The US-Canada border in the central and western US is wide open by comparison.

 
 
 
Dulay
Professor Expert
18.1.8  Dulay  replied to  True American Pat @18.1.3    5 years ago

Good to see you again too True Pat. 

I looked up your numbers and I think you are correct....and I was wrong.

It's refreshing to have a discussion with someone that acknowledges facts.

can you say the same for our Southern Border? 

Yes. that's what the CBP does. BTW, they're the ones that do it at airports too...

Do you think that Terrorist don't know about this?

Yes, pretty sure they do. Yet as CBP data shows, there is NO evidence that terrorists have come over the southern border. Unfortunately, Trump and his minions saw fit to LIE about the data in order to fear monger...

Ironically, there IS evidence that terrorists HAVE crossed the northern border. Can you help me figure out why Trump is laser focused on the southern border while the real threat of terrorism has historically come from the north? I've tried to come up with one that isn't based on xenophobic racism but I have failed...

 
 
 
True American Pat
Freshman Silent
18.1.9  True American Pat  replied to  Dulay @18.1.8    5 years ago

I try to be fair.....and I do make mistakes (as we all do)......Are you saying that the CBP checks out everyone that crosses the Southern Boarder?.....

Can you help me figure out why Trump is laser focused on the southern border while the real threat of terrorism has historically come from the north? I've tried to come up with one that isn't based on xenophobic racism but I have failed...

I don't believe we have the human traficking, drugs, illegal guns and Gangs that are exploiting our Northern Border......This is just my assumption (could be wrong)....but I believe that Illegal Border Crossing from the North is significantly lower than from the South......Also, I have been to places like Juarez, Mexico.....It is like a war zone.....there are many places along the Southern Border that I don't think we want spilling over to our side......Unlike Canada.  Hope that helps....

 
 
 
Dulay
Professor Expert
18.1.10  Dulay  replied to  Split Personality @18.1.1    5 years ago
only 6 or 8 were detained at the southern border by CBP because they were on THE list.

The reporting indicates that those 6-8 were 'encountered' NOT detained and there is NO evidence that any of them was taken into custody or charged with ANYTHING. 

 
 
 
True American Pat
Freshman Silent
18.1.11  True American Pat  replied to  epistte @18.1.4    5 years ago

All Terrorism is a Concern for me.....and for the Record.....I don't think we do enough to stop Domestic Terrorist Either.....

This 5 Billion is a drop in the bucket......to say that this fight is worth fighting for is really silly....to me this all boils down to the left refusing to let Trump have a political win.....I would have to say that if Democrats really want to help Americans and truly believe that Trump is a lunatic.....they should do what is best for Americans.....and give him the 5 Billion and Live to fight another day.......My Guess is that this Shutdown has already cost the Economy more than $5 Billion.....and I don't believe that a wall makes life easier for Drug Traffickers, Human Traffickers and Gangs.....

 

 
 
 
True American Pat
Freshman Silent
18.1.12  True American Pat  replied to  Dulay @18.1.10    5 years ago

So they were allowed to enter the Country?.....also I noticed that the article states that these "Encounters" were at Ports of Entry......what about all the open ground in between these Ports of Entry?

 
 
 
True American Pat
Freshman Silent
18.1.13  True American Pat  replied to  True American Pat @18.1.12    5 years ago

There is over 1200 miles of Border that doesn't even have a Fence.....The entire boarder is only about 1900 miles.....

 
 
 
Dulay
Professor Expert
18.1.14  Dulay  replied to  True American Pat @18.1.9    5 years ago
Are you saying that the CBP checks out everyone that crosses the Southern Boarder?.....

Obviously they don't. 

I don't believe we have the human traficking, drugs, illegal guns and Gangs that are exploiting our Northern Border

CBP has NO data that proves that a WALL will curtail human trafficking and they refuse to go on the record about it. 

Anyone who has seen Trump's 'steel slats' knows that kilos can be packaged to fit between them. BTW, we have drug smuggling from Canada too:

Gun trafficking is overwhelmingly from north to south. Straw sales are rampant in Texas. 

The MS 13 gang that Trump uses to fear monger originated in the US. 

I believe that Illegal Border Crossing from the North is significantly lower than from the South

Data? BTW, I don't accept the argument that asylum seekers are entering the country 'illegally' so the numbers are skewed for the southern border. Also, since fact checking has caught up with the GOP, I've heard them stating that 'One is too many'.

Also, I have been to places like Juarez, Mexico.....It is like a war zone.....there are many places along the Southern Border that I don't think we want spilling over to our side......

If Juarez is a 'war zone', so is St. Louis, which ranks higher in the most dangerous city category. 

Juarez spills over into El Paso [and via, versa] every day. Workers and students cross the bridges, back and forth, by the hundreds. El Paso is one of the safest cities in the country, at least according to the data and Beto...

Unlike Canada.

Yet CBP data proves that more terrorists come from Canada than Mexico. 

 
 
 
True American Pat
Freshman Silent
18.1.15  True American Pat  replied to  Dulay @18.1.14    5 years ago
El Paso is one of the safest cities in the country, at least according to the data and Beto...

And what does El Paso and Juarez Have between them?  And if the CBP doesn't need to check out everyone that crosses the border....then why does the TSA have to check out everyone?.....The CBP also doesn't have any data that proves that a wall Wouldn't curtail human trafficking.....as far as data goes.....it is hard to compare the two borders apples to apples.....conceptually Canada has a similar culture and standard of living as the United States...I would also argue that many of the illegal crossings from Canada are from Mexican Citizens going to Canada and Crossing the Border.... ....illegal crossings need to stop....and I also think we need to limit the amount of "asylum seekers".  We cannot take on the Entire Southern Hemisphere's Problems.....nor it's people....Until we fix some of the major problems that are occurring here First.  Homelessness and Drug Addiction for starters..... 

 
 
 
True American Pat
Freshman Silent
18.1.16  True American Pat  replied to  Dulay @18.1.14    5 years ago

The data that you requested.....pretty clear where most of the illegal immigration is taking place....

Top Countries of Birth
Mexico 5,944,000 53%
El Salvador 655,000 6%
Guatemala 525,000 5%
China 362,000 3%
Honduras 355,000 3%
Regions of Birth
Mexico and Central America 7,593,000 67%
Caribbean 351,000 3%
South America 685,000 6%
Europe/Canada/Oceania 579,000 5%
Asia 1,774,000 16%
Africa 318,000 3%

 
 
 
Paula Bartholomew
Professor Participates
18.1.17  Paula Bartholomew  replied to  Krishna @18.1.6    5 years ago

She lies because she is following her boss's lead and has learned from the best.

 
 
 
Split Personality
Professor Guide
18.1.18  Split Personality  replied to  True American Pat @18.1.13    5 years ago

and most of it's in Texas and it's private property, well within the border.

Some 5,000 parcels that will have to be dealt with and 85 cases still pending in Courts from the last round.

Our Federal government is trying to outspend and outlast those 85 holdouts who do not want their ranches/farms/property condemned or split in half with no access to their property located in the sovereign state of Texas & the USA but beyond their reach.

Do you blame them?

 
 
 
Dulay
Professor Expert
18.1.19  Dulay  replied to  True American Pat @18.1.12    5 years ago
So they were allowed to enter the Country?.....

Since there is no data on arrests of terrorists @ the southern border, we have to presume they were. 

also I noticed that the article states that these "Encounters" were at Ports of Entry......what about all the open ground in between these Ports of Entry?

There is no data on terrorists being arrested at the southern border PERIOD. 

 
 
 
Dulay
Professor Expert
18.1.20  Dulay  replied to  True American Pat @18.1.16    5 years ago

That's 'in total' data, NOT from current immigration. 

Secondly, your link shows that those number reflect only 18% have been here less than 5 years. Doesn't reflect a current  'emergency' Pat. 

 
 
 
Dulay
Professor Expert
18.1.21  Dulay  replied to  True American Pat @18.1.15    5 years ago
And what does El Paso and Juarez Have between them? 

A FENCE that was built in 2010 yet hundreds of citizens from Juarez 'invade' El Paso every day and it's STILL one of the safest cities in the country. 

And if the CBP doesn't need to check out everyone that crosses the border....then why does the TSA have to check out everyone?.....

I didn't make that claim Pat. Strawman? 

The CBP also doesn't have any data that proves that a wall Wouldn't curtail human trafficking.....

Though the CBP DOES have data on programs that they KNOW have been working and they ain't a WALL.

as far as data goes.....it is hard to compare the two borders apples to apples.....

Yet they funded and built 8 prototypes to do JUST THAT and they chose NONE OF THE ABOVE. 

conceptually Canada has a similar culture and standard of living as the United States...

Conceptually, Mexicans and Central Americans have a similar culture to Southwestern America because much of it is THEIR culture. 

I would also argue that many of the illegal crossings from Canada are from Mexican Citizens going to Canada and Crossing the Border....

Please proceed. Data please. 

....illegal crossings need to stop....and I also think we need to limit the amount of "asylum seekers". 

Illegal crossings have been declining every year. Trump HAS reduced the amount of asylum seekers. Unless and until we repeal our international treaties, we are obligated to accept asylum seekers @ our border. 

We cannot take on the Entire Southern Hemisphere's Problems.....nor it's people....

Another strawman. 

Until we fix some of the major problems that are occurring here First.  Homelessness and Drug Addiction for starters..... 

Neither is being addressed by Trump or his WALL. It seems that his base aren't adequately enthusiastic about those issues.

"BUILD THAT SHELTER", "BUILT THAT REHAB" must not have polled well... 

 
 
 
True American Pat
Freshman Silent
18.1.22  True American Pat  replied to  Dulay @18.1.21    5 years ago
A FENCE that was built in 2010 yet hundreds of citizens from Juarez 'invade' El Paso every day and it's STILL one of the safest cities in the country. 

When you say "invade"....are you saying that they are crossing the "Fence" or are you saying they are entering legally through a port of entry?

 
 
 
Dulay
Professor Expert
18.1.23  Dulay  replied to  True American Pat @18.1.22    5 years ago
When you say "invade"....are you saying that they are crossing the "Fence" or are you saying they are entering legally through a port of entry?

Trump doesn't make a distinction, why should I? /s

Seriously, hundreds cross in both directions every day over the Juarez/El Paso POE for work and school. They are major contributors to the economy on both sides of the border. Many of the managers and supervisors in Juarez factories are US citizens. Many service workers and college students are Juarez citizens. It's a symbiotic relationship that has been working for a very long time. 

BTW, just outside of El Paso, @ the NM border, the 'pedestrian fence' ends and the 'vehicle barrier' starts, a day hike from Juarez to El Paso around the end of the 'pedestrian fence'. 

 
 
 
True American Pat
Freshman Silent
18.1.24  True American Pat  replied to  Dulay @18.1.23    5 years ago
hundreds cross in both directions every day over the Juarez/El Paso POE for work and school.

I think you made my case for me......The scenario you describe in El Paso is what I want......I want people entering our Country through POE for work and school.....And as you pointed out El Paso is one of the safest Cities in America.....Despite have one of the most violent Cities Right across it's border fence.....and I think that Fence is about 18' high in places if I recall.....Fences/Walls do keep people from entering our Country Illegally.....and this scenario Proves it.....Now it is time to apply this winning combination to the rest of the border.......Fence/Wall....WITH..Strong border patrols, Drones....Electronics...etc....and The People who want to come here to participate in our Economy .....can do so .....after they have been checked out by Border Patrol.

 
 
 
Dulay
Professor Expert
18.1.25  Dulay  replied to  True American Pat @18.1.24    5 years ago
Fences/Walls do keep people from entering our Country Illegally.....and this scenario Proves it.

Fences sure. We don't know if 'WALLS' work because there are NO WALLS on the southern border. 

BTW, I NEVER said that FENCES don't work. My posit has always been that they DO and that is why we don't need no stinkin' wall. 

Trump is the one that insisted, until last night, that it HAD to be a WALL and who has been LYING about a WALL being built. As someone who has built many a WALL, I can't imagine trying to pass a 'steel bollard barrier' off as a WALL. The only reason Trump is tap dancing and obfuscating is that he is incapable of MANNING UP, admit he was full of shit, that Mexico was never going to pay a dime and that the barriers that we have been building along the border for years do the fucking job. 

Now it is time to apply this winning combination to the rest of the border.......

Even in Big Bend? 

Fence/Wall....

A fence is NOT a WALL and no matter how many times you try to conflate them, that will remain true. 

 
 
 
True American Pat
Freshman Silent
18.1.26  True American Pat  replied to  Dulay @18.1.25    5 years ago

OK...in the spirit of good debate.....Big Picture.....Fund a Fence Similar to what is in El Paso.....Since a Fence isn't a wall....Mexico shouldn't have to pay for it....We can debate what is best in Big Bend....but a provision needs to be in place that if illegal border crossing eclipse a set number in that area......a fence shall be built.....Fund the Fence and open the Government........How does that sound?

Just for my info.....Did the Democrats last proposal include Funding for a Fence?...If so...How much money?

 
 
 
Jack_TX
Professor Quiet
18.1.27  Jack_TX  replied to  Dulay @18.1.25    5 years ago
A fence is NOT a WALL

You wouldn't be splitting hairs there, now, would you?

So how about this:  Fence or wall?

2.jpg

Or this:  Fence or Wall?

home-design.jpg

Or this:

concrete-fence-wall-500x500.jpg

Do tell.

 
 
 
Krishna
Professor Expert
18.1.28  seeder  Krishna  replied to  epistte @18.1.7    5 years ago

Without doing a Google search I am not aware of any that cross into the US from the SW Mexican border. 

I used to follow terrorism stories very closely after 9/11, but while I still do to some degree, I really haven't kept up the way I used to.

So I could be wrong-- but I don't think there was even a single domestic terror attack from someone who entered the country via the Mexican border-- not one.

IIRC, all terror attacks on U.S. have been perpetrated by people who have entered on commercial airline flights...or who have actually been born here. 

So Trump's claim's are blatant lies... 

 
 
 
Dulay
Professor Expert
18.1.29  Dulay  replied to  Jack_TX @18.1.27    5 years ago
Do tell.

Those are ALL FENCES and ironically, since nothing can be passed THOUGH two of them, those are  MORE 'impenetrable' than the 'steel slats' that Trump is building.  

 
 
 
Jack_TX
Professor Quiet
18.1.30  Jack_TX  replied to  Dulay @18.1.29    5 years ago
Those are ALL FENCES

OK.  If you say so.  Suuuuuuure.

and ironically, since nothing can be passed THOUGH two of them, those are  MORE 'impenetrable' than the 'steel slats' that Trump is building.

Well there we have it.  Dulay has solved our crisis.  Simply use 6' privacy fencing with Mexican labor.  We can get the whole thing done for $2000.

 
 
 
It Is ME
Masters Guide
18.1.31  It Is ME  replied to  Dulay @18.1.25    5 years ago
BTW, I NEVER said that FENCES don't work. My posit has always been that they DO and that is why we don't need no stinkin' wall. 

"Fences" ONLY work on the "Law Abiding person".

Have you never seen those cop shows, where the Bad Folks "hop the Fences" of Neighborhoods to get away from the law ?

 
 
 
Dulay
Professor Expert
18.1.32  Dulay  replied to  Jack_TX @18.1.30    5 years ago
OK. If you say so. Suuuuuuure.

YOU just said so:

Simply use 6' privacy fencing with Mexican labor.

Oh the irony...

 
 
 
Dulay
Professor Expert
18.1.33  Dulay  replied to  It Is ME @18.1.31    5 years ago
"Fences" ONLY work on the "Law Abiding person".

Then WHY is Trump wasting money building fences. Review the photos and articles posted here that show what Trump is building right now on the border. NOT ONE shows a WALL. 

800

Easy to climb: Cochise County Sheriff Deputy Mike Magoffin scales the border fence while on ranch patrol in Douglas, Arizona. The barricade is one of the more imposing fences in the area. 
For 25 miles, fencing is variable. Some areas are guarded by an 18-foot bollard-style barricade; others have only Normandy vehicle barriers. Magoffin steps up to the more imposing fence, scales it in a matter of seconds, then jumps back to earth.

There was a seed earlier where multiple members spent days figuring out how to use ropes and ladders to scale the fence. I kept saying that they don't need no stinking ladders. Sheriff Deputy Magoffin proved my point. 18' and up and over in seconds...

So since it's obvious that fencing out in the middle of nowhere DOES NOT WORK, why does Trump want to spend BILLIONS to build it anyway? 

Are there areas were fencing works? Yes. Do we need another 200+ miles of fence? NO. 

 
 
 
It Is ME
Masters Guide
18.1.34  It Is ME  replied to  Dulay @18.1.33    5 years ago
Then WHY is Trump wasting money building fences.

But, But, But ………….. Liberals and Liberal politicians tell us Trump hasn't built a thing ! (rolling eyes face)

Your QUOTE:
"BTW, I NEVER said that FENCES don't work. My posit has always been that they DO and that is why we don't need no stinkin' wall."

Your photo is Old, Old, Old, which.....by the way....it shows "Fences Don't work ! (Facepalm Face)

Time for a WALL ! (LOL Face)

 
 
 
Dulay
Professor Expert
18.1.35  Dulay  replied to  It Is ME @18.1.34    5 years ago
But, But, But ………….. Liberals and Liberal politicians tell us Trump hasn't built a thing ! (rolling eyes face)

Link?

Trump said that he has been building the WALL and that is almost done. 

I have said that what HAS been built isn't a WALL. 

Your QUOTE:"BTW, I NEVER said that FENCES don't work. My posit has always been that they DO and that is why we don't need no stinkin' wall."

The fences I have separating my neighbors property, 50' and 75' from my house and in line of sight, work GREAT. I have never seen a sign that anyone has entered my property on those fence lines. 

The one I have on the back property line, 250' away in the woods, not so much.

Beer bottles and other garbage tells me that someone hung out back there and that they were pigs. I sat in wait for a week and saw lights back there one night. The sound of me yelling and chambering a shotgun shell caused much chaos and scampering. 

Since then I added battery powered motion detector lighting that alarms in my house. 

So the more remote fence line has to be POLICED to be effective. 

GET IT YET? 

Your photo is Old, Old, Old, which.....by the way....it shows "Fences Don't work ! (Facepalm Face)

Actually, the photo is from 2018 and the fence was installed in 2012. 

Time for a WALL ! (LOL Face)

Why didn't Donald, Mitch and Paul get the funding passed in the last two years?

 
 
 
It Is ME
Masters Guide
18.1.36  It Is ME  replied to  Dulay @18.1.35    5 years ago
Link?

This was waaaaaay too easy. (Laughing Face)

NOW....as to this: (snicker)

"The fences I have separating my neighbors property, 50' and 75' from my house and in line of sight, work GREAT. I have never seen a sign that anyone has entered my property on those fence lines. "

"Legal" folks don't hop "Neighborhood Fences". LOL !

 
 
 
Dulay
Professor Expert
18.1.37  Dulay  replied to  It Is ME @18.1.36    5 years ago
This was waaaaaay too easy. (Laughing Face)

NOT ONE of those links supports your claim that:

Liberals and Liberal politicians tell us Trump hasn't built a thing !

In FACT, as far as I could find, not one even quotes a "Liberal". If one of them does, QUOTE the statement. 

Guess it isn't as easy as you think...

"Legal" folks don't hop "Neighborhood Fences". LOL !

Wait WHAT? When you were watching those cop shows you MUST have seen the cops hopping neighborhood fences chasing after 'Bad Folks' right? Cops are "Legal" RIGHT?

BTFW, I live in the country where 'small' residential lots are an acre and most are 5+, 12 residents along a mile of road, NOT in a 'neighborhood'. Deer hop my fences and they're welcome. 

 
 
 
It Is ME
Masters Guide
18.1.38  It Is ME  replied to  Dulay @18.1.37    5 years ago

Comprehension eludes some I guess !

Does this help you any, or is this not within the realm of thought either.

"BTFW," I live in the country where 'small' residential lots are an acre and most are 5+"

And ?

neigh·bor·hood
[ˈnābərˌho͝od]

NOUN
a district, especially one forming a community within a town or city.

Yep.....your in a Neighborhood. 

 
 
 
Dulay
Professor Expert
18.1.39  Dulay  replied to  It Is ME @18.1.38    5 years ago
Comprehension eludes some I guess !

Actually, I comprehend that you posted links that don't support your BS.

Good faith eludes some. 

From YOUR link:

At one point in his remarks, Trump boasted that "a lot of the wall is built" and that "it's been very effective," even though none of the wall he promised in his presidential campaign has been built, aside from eight prototypes constructed outside San Diego, California. Trump even presented flashcards with statistics that he said showed the success of the border wall, saying illegal traffic in several border regions — San Diego; El Paso, Texas; Tucson, Arizona; and Yuma, Arizona — dropped "once the wall was up." But only fencing has been built with the $1.6 billion allocated last spring.

So Trump is claiming to have built a WALL and that it's working GREAT and YOUR link states he's full of shit.

Then there's what 'Liberal Politicians' actually said. Again from your link:

"Here's what I want to say: We have a lot of disagreements here. The Washington Post today gave you a whole lot of Pinocchios because they say you constantly misstate how much of the wall is built," Schumer said, most likely referring to the newspaper's recently announced "Bottomless Pinocchio" rating for Trump's most frequently repeated false claims.

...

"We didn't want to contradict the president when he was putting forth figures that had no reality to them, no basis in fact," she said. "We have to, if we are going to proceed in all of this, have evidence-based, factual, truthful information about what works and what doesn't. I didn't want to, in front of those people, say, 'You don't know what you are talking about.'"

So WHERE is the part where they say 'Trump hasn't built a thing'? 

Yep.....your in a Neighborhood. 

Nope, I live in an UNINCORPORATED area, NOT 'within a town or city'. [laughing face]

 
 
 
It Is ME
Masters Guide
18.1.40  It Is ME  replied to  Dulay @18.1.39    5 years ago
Actually, I comprehend that you posted links that don't support your BS.

ALWAYS Using the words "I WON'T see it" on anything you disagree with is just "LAZY THINKING" !

[Deleted]

 
 
 
Dulay
Professor Expert
18.1.41  Dulay  replied to  It Is ME @18.1.40    5 years ago
ALWAYS Using the words "I WON'T see it" on anything you disagree with is just "LAZY THINKING" !

First of all, I NEVER used those words. It's impossible to SEE what doesn't exist. 

Perhaps you forgot what you were supposed to be supporting. 

Removed for context

Perhaps you should re-read my comment that stated:

 In FACT, as far as I could find, not one even quotes a "Liberal". If one of them does, QUOTE the statement. 

Instead of blathering, post a quote a statement from one of your links that PROVES your claim that "Liberals and Liberal politicians tell us Trump hasn't built a thing !" 

You watch a lot of "Lazy Town" on the weekends huh !

You make a lot of personal statements when you can't address the topic huh. 

 
 
 
It Is ME
Masters Guide
18.1.42  It Is ME  replied to  Dulay @18.1.41    5 years ago
It's impossible to SEE what doesn't exist. 

I SEE what is ALWAYS invisible to Liberal types.

 
 
 
Dulay
Professor Expert
18.1.43  Dulay  replied to  It Is ME @18.1.42    5 years ago
I SEE what is ALWAYS invisible to Liberal types.

Yet you're incapable of posting even ONE quote that allege you SEE in your links. Why is that? 

 
 
 
It Is ME
Masters Guide
18.1.44  It Is ME  replied to  Dulay @18.1.43    5 years ago

None so Blind as those that WILL NOT see ! (Facepalm face)

 
 
 
Atheist יוחנן בן אברהם אבינו
Junior Participates
18.2  Atheist יוחנן בן אברהם אבינו  replied to  Dulay @18    5 years ago
Seeking asylum isn't illegal..

No matter how many times that absolute truth is stated the haters will never accept it.  

 
 
 
charger 383
Professor Silent
19  charger 383    5 years ago

There is a fence around the US Capital building, if Congress does not want to secure the border then Congress does not deserve to have it's fence and security 

 
 
 
True American Pat
Freshman Silent
19.1  True American Pat  replied to  charger 383 @19    5 years ago

It doesn't make sense to me that if we have walls and fences on part of the border.....then what good is that when it doesn't go all the way......to me it's like building a dam part way and expecting it to hold water......

 
 
 
Dulay
Professor Expert
19.1.1  Dulay  replied to  True American Pat @19.1    5 years ago

There ARE areas along the border where a fence isn't necessary.

Big Bend is an example. 

800

It's no wonder that CBP apprehensions are the lower in this area.  

 
 
 
True American Pat
Freshman Silent
19.1.2  True American Pat  replied to  Dulay @19.1.1    5 years ago

Looks Beautiful and doesn't look nearly as ominous to cross as this does.....and yes....cbp aprehensions are lower there.....there are much easier places to cross....and once those are closed up......then what do you think will happen to the cbp apprehensions in the big bend?

Just-Wall-Theory-Israel-e1510168711146.j

 
 
 
Dulay
Professor Expert
19.1.3  Dulay  replied to  True American Pat @19.1.2    5 years ago

I sure as hell wouldn't want to try to install precast concrete barriers in Big Bend Pat. Guess you could use helicopters to fly them in, can't see a crane working there.  

Ever set forms to pour concrete on a 10 degree graded driveway? Imagine doing it on a 45 degree grade or more. Even the CBP knew that was 'prohibitive'. 

The fence needs a minimum 4' foundation, 6' even better.

Big Bend looks like it has quite a bit of bed rock. THAT'S even MORE fun...

BTW Pat, the Israeli concrete wall only runs 19 miles...the rest of the barrier is FENCING. 

 
 
 
Jack_TX
Professor Quiet
19.1.4  Jack_TX  replied to  True American Pat @19.1.2    5 years ago

Sorry man.  That's ugly as hell. 

That "looks beautiful" in the same way Harvey Weinstein "looks beautiful".

 
 
 
True American Pat
Freshman Silent
19.1.5  True American Pat  replied to  Dulay @19.1.3    5 years ago

Like I said.....we could debate the big bend area.....but the rest....build a "Fence".....

BTW......Wall and Fence are considered Synonyms.....and really isn't worth all the hub bub....shutdowns.....if this is truly about the difference between a wall and a Fence....That is really a shame.....and Trump has already said that we can build a fence....but to my knowledge Chuck and Nancy won't have nothing to do with it.....

 
 
 
True American Pat
Freshman Silent
19.1.6  True American Pat  replied to  Jack_TX @19.1.4    5 years ago

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder.....LOL.

 
 
 
Trout Giggles
Professor Principal
19.1.7  Trout Giggles  replied to  Dulay @19.1.1    5 years ago

It would be a real shame to mar that beauty with an ugly fence/wall

 
 
 
True American Pat
Freshman Silent
19.1.11  True American Pat  replied to  XDm9mm @19.1.9    5 years ago

That's all fine.....and I'm good with that.....I trust your judgement....and I have looked into it as well...and now agree......I wish that all we had to debate was weather or not we needed a fence in the big bend area......I think Trump would concede on that point....and he has conceeded to building a "Fence".......So why no funding for a "Fence" .....Democrats?

 
 
 
Ender
Professor Principal
19.1.12  Ender  replied to  Trout Giggles @19.1.7    5 years ago

Lowers property value.

Who wants to live on the Rio Grande and look at a wall instead of a river.

Dumb.

 
 
 
Jack_TX
Professor Quiet
19.1.13  Jack_TX  replied to  Ender @19.1.12    5 years ago
Lowers property value.

Who wants to live on the Rio Grande and look at a wall instead of a river.

Dumb.

Not familiar with that part of the country, I see.

 
 
 
Trout Giggles
Professor Principal
19.1.14  Trout Giggles  replied to  Jack_TX @19.1.13    5 years ago

Then please enlighten us. I understand it's a state park? Is that correct?

 
 
 
Ender
Professor Principal
19.1.15  Ender  replied to  Jack_TX @19.1.13    5 years ago
Early in the 21st century, a group led by south Texas developer Rollins Koppel envisioned a 420-acre riverfront tract as a destination for shops and waterside restaurants in Brownsville. 

By 2008, the project had secured the promise of tax incentives from the city and some of the early work on running streets and utilities was in place. But when the Department of Homeland Security decided it would need a narrow sliver a few hundred yards from the Rio Grande for the fence, the development project tanked.

Within a year, the offer of tax breaks was rescinded, and Koppel was not at all happy with the $233,000 offered by the government for what amounted to be about 6 acres a couple of hundred yards from the river.

“Once the federal government decided to build the wall that would sever the view of the river from the rest of the development, it killed the project,” says Billy Dyer, the Houston lawyer, who represented Koppel when he went to court to ask the government to pay $10 million. The fence devalued the rest of the acreage by laying to waste the development project, they argued.   The government contended that it should pay for only   the value of the land it had taken for the fence project.

.

Lloyd Burns worries he'll be one of the next ones. Burns and his wife, Wendi, manage an RV park in Mission, a patch of land known as Chimney Park. As he talks, a breeze drifts in off the Rio Grande, cutting the early morning's 88-degree heat.

"People love this place," says Burns. "This is why they come here. For this."

Chimney Park is particularly popular with "Winter Texans" — Northerners and Easterners who live in Texas part-time to escape from their cold hometowns. For $2,486, you can rent a plot on the banks of the Rio Grande for six months. Somewhere just inland of those banks, Burns figures, the wall would be built. 

“If that wall is built … it would kill this park,” he says.

.

Sixty miles downriver, Jeremy Barnard has a similar view. He, his father and uncle manage the neatly manicured 319-acre River Bend Resort & Golf Club.

The club straddles   a levee system that was constructed to block rising river water or act as a buffer in the event of a hurricane or other natural disaster. There's already border fencing running along the same levee system nearby. 

"We're a gap in it," Barnard says. 

About 75 percent of the club's acreage, including about 200 homes, is south of the levee, which many believe would be where the wall would be built.

"Fifteen of our 18 holes would all be south" of the wall, says Barnard, whose farming family purchased the property in 2015. "A lot of the land would be cut off."

Link
 
 
 
Jack_TX
Professor Quiet
19.1.16  Jack_TX  replied to  Trout Giggles @19.1.14    5 years ago
Then please enlighten us. I understand it's a state park? Is that correct?

The river runs through Big Bend National Park.  However it runs the souther border of the US from El Paso to Brownsville.  The total length is about 1900 miles, most of which are in Texas.

Very few people live on the border sections of the river.  Most of the land adjacent to it is ranch land, and frankly cows don't particularly mind how ugly a concrete or steel wall is.  Ranchers on the river have reported problems with illegal immigrant caravans running across their land, and it's been going on for decades.  

Now again...I'm not sold on the idea of a wall.  But it's not going to drive down property values to any significant degree.  Nobody wants to live there anyway.

It is probably worth looking into what, if any, wildlife migration patterns might be interrupted.

 
 
 
Ender
Professor Principal
19.1.17  Ender  replied to  Jack_TX @19.1.16    5 years ago
Activists responded with outrage. They held a march in the city of Mission to oppose a possible wall on a levee that would leave a historic church in no-man's land, cut off by the wall. Then they staged a protest hike at the Santa Ana National Wildlife Refuge, saying a wall there would become a trap for animals who couldn't escape rising floodwaters and would cut off endangered ocelots from natural habitat. 

Same link as above.

 
 
 
Dulay
Professor Expert
19.1.18  Dulay  replied to  True American Pat @19.1.5    5 years ago
BTW......Wall and Fence are considered Synonyms.

Link? 

if this is truly about the difference between a wall and a Fence....That is really a shame

The difference between a wall and a fence is in the BILLIONS of dollars. It would be a shame to waste BILLIONS.

 
 
 
Jack_TX
Professor Quiet
19.1.19  Jack_TX  replied to  Dulay @19.1.18    5 years ago
It would be a shame to waste BILLIONS.

$5.7 billion dollars is nothing in the scheme of US Govt expenditure.  Medicare/Medicaid loses $5.7 billion to fraud and incompetence every 19 days.

The US govt spends $5.7 billion every 9 hours.

The ONLY reason to fight about this is for the sake of the fight.

 
 
 
Dulay
Professor Expert
19.1.20  Dulay  replied to  Jack_TX @19.1.16    5 years ago
Very few people live on the border sections of the river.  Most of the land adjacent to it is ranch land, and frankly cows don't particularly mind how ugly a concrete or steel wall is.

Nor can they DRINK from a concrete or steel wall. So unless you think that they are talking about building down the center of the river, you should consider how ranchers feel about their livestock being cut off from the river. I know damn well that my Great Grandfather would have been apoplectic had they cut his cows off from the Lemonwier River. My cousin still owns that land and runs horses on it. 

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
19.1.21  Texan1211  replied to  Jack_TX @19.1.19    5 years ago

 The price tag is nothing but a red herring for some Democrats.

Government auditors studied all federal programs and found that 22% of them have no positive impact on the populations they serve at the cost of over $123 Billion per YEAR.

I have yet to see either political party actually BE fiscally responsible despite claims by both sides to the contrary.

Anyone complaining about $5 Billion for something that actually accomplishes something is pulling your leg.

 
 
 
Dulay
Professor Expert
19.1.22  Dulay  replied to  Jack_TX @19.1.19    5 years ago
Medicare/Medicaid loses $5.7 billion to fraud and incompetence every 19 days.

Link. 

The ONLY reason to fight about this is for the sake of the fight.

Then why is Trump doing it? 

 
 
 
True American Pat
Freshman Silent
19.1.23  True American Pat  replied to  Dulay @19.1.18    5 years ago
Link?

 
 
 
True American Pat
Freshman Silent
19.1.24  True American Pat  replied to  Dulay @19.1.22    5 years ago

I think Trump would be fine with your "Fence"....I don't think that he cares if it is called a fence or a wall.....we need a physical barrier that is adequate to keep people from crossing it........So I guess I have to ask.....What is the Problem? I'm not sure what the disagreement is about here.....I think we might be in agreement on a "Fence".....jrSmiley_2_smiley_image.png

 

 
 
 
Jack_TX
Professor Quiet
19.1.25  Jack_TX  replied to  Dulay @19.1.22    5 years ago
Then why is Trump doing it? 

Good question.  I suppose because he made such a big deal about it during the campaign.

The better question is why he didn't get behind the $25billion package last year when Republicans were running both houses.

 
 
 
Ender
Professor Principal
19.1.26  Ender  replied to  Jack_TX @19.1.25    5 years ago

They should have passed it. It only didn't because of the republicans themselves. Only 8 of them voted for it.

They should have made him veto it. Why they keep giving him cover, I don't know.

It had everything trump wanted yet he didn't want it. Now it is supposedly a crisis and he has to have less money than he would have originally received.

Which is why I say, he makes up a crisis. Just to boost himself. 

 
 
 
Jack_TX
Professor Quiet
19.1.27  Jack_TX  replied to  Ender @19.1.26    5 years ago
They should have made him veto it.

He should have made them pass it.  Campaign promise #1 done.  Commence victory lap.

 
 
 
epistte
Junior Guide
19.1.28  epistte  replied to  Jack_TX @19.1.27    5 years ago
He should have made them pass it.  Campaign promise #1 done.  Commence victory lap.

The president cannot force the legislative branch to do anything because they do not work for him.  He is not the president of the USA Corp. 

 
 
 
Ender
Professor Principal
19.1.29  Ender  replied to  Jack_TX @19.1.27    5 years ago

According to the republicans, they didn't pass it because trump said he would veto it.

trump said he was against it.

I say they should have passed it to find out.

 
 
 
Jack_TX
Professor Quiet
19.1.30  Jack_TX  replied to  epistte @19.1.28    5 years ago
The president cannot force the legislative branch to do anything because they do not work for him.  He is not the president of the USA Corp.

Please do explain that to the seemingly endless parade of panicking liberals who claim to be utterly convinced Hitler is reincarnated with every new day of Trump's presidency.

That said, a new president can usually strong arm his party into passing legislation he wants, especially if it's reasonably bipartisan...which comprehensive immigration/path to citizenship immigration reform would be.

 
 
 
Jack_TX
Professor Quiet
19.1.31  Jack_TX  replied to  Ender @19.1.29    5 years ago
trump said he was against it.

No, I get that.  I just think it was stupid.

 
 
 
Ender
Professor Principal
19.1.32  Ender  replied to  Jack_TX @19.1.31    5 years ago

I honestly think that if the republicans voted for it, with the Democratic help at the time, they could have over ridden his veto.

It would be done now.

I don't blame the Democrats for getting tired of the lies and misdirection.

That is why I say they pander to trump.

Cowards.

The funny thing is, if they had done it, even over ridden a veto, trump would probably be claiming success right now.

But then he would have to come up with something else to rile up his base with...

 
 
 
Trout Giggles
Professor Principal
19.1.33  Trout Giggles  replied to  Jack_TX @19.1.25    5 years ago
The better question is why he didn't get behind the $25billion package last year when Republicans were running both houses.

Thank-you, Jack.

 
 
 
Krishna
Professor Expert
19.1.34  seeder  Krishna  replied to  Dulay @19.1.3    5 years ago

BTW Pat, the Israeli concrete wall only runs 19 miles...the rest of the barrier is FENCING

Correct.

Anti-israeli propaganda shows that picture as an example of the horrible "border wall" Israel has constructed-- but IIRC, its less than 5% of that total separation barrier. 

The other 95% of that so-called "Israeli Wall" looks like this:

384

So why did they built a tiny portion as an actual wall (and a very high one!) but only build the other 95% as a fence? (Hint: in that area there was a fairly unique problem that didn't exist to any significant degree along most of that fenced barrier-- nor is it a problem that exists on our Mexican border. 

 
 
 
Dulay
Professor Expert
19.1.35  Dulay  replied to  True American Pat @19.1.23    5 years ago

The more appropriate synonym for Trump's WALL on that list is 'façade'. 

 
 
 
Jack_TX
Professor Quiet
19.1.36  Jack_TX  replied to  Ender @19.1.32    5 years ago
I honestly think that if the republicans voted for it, with the Democratic help at the time, they could have over ridden his veto.

Well, by definition IF that happened, then yeah, the veto would have been overridden.

But that was never going to happen.  You don't override the veto of a relatively new president in your own party. 

 
 
 
Dulay
Professor Expert
19.1.37  Dulay  replied to  True American Pat @19.1.24    5 years ago
I think Trump would be fine with your "Fence"....

It isn't MY fence Pat. 

I don't think that he cares if it is called a fence or a wall.....

While in reality, Trump might have backed off of his WALL, he has insisted from day one that it isn't a fence, it's a WALL. In fact, he chastised a reported for calling it a fence. 

Even yesterday, Trump and his minions called it a WALL. 

we need a physical barrier that is adequate to keep people from crossing it........So I guess I have to ask.....What is the Problem? I'm not sure what the disagreement is about here.....I think we might be in agreement on a "Fence".....

The 'problem' is that Trump refuses to negotiate in good faith. As I said, the first thing he needs to do is STOP calling it a WALL when anyone with a brain KNOWS it is a FENCE. Trump would do well to STOP insulting the America people's intelligence. 

If Trump would have walked into that meeting yesterday and said:

OK, we need to get on the same page. You've voted in the past to build fencing and to add technology and personnel. I promised a wall but I can sell my base on a 'steel slat barrier'. Let's meet in the middle. You said 1.6 and I said 5. Let's agree on 3.5 for border security, include the term 'barrier' in the bill and I'll sign it on Friday to reopen the government and you are all invited. 

There would have been a JOINT news conference and high fives all around. 

 
 
 
Dulay
Professor Expert
19.1.38  Dulay  replied to  Jack_TX @19.1.25    5 years ago
The better question is why he didn't get behind the $25billion package last year when Republicans were running both houses.

Remember that the 25 billion was a package that included DACA protections.

Here's your answer.

Stephen Miller is the man behind the curtain but instead of being benevolent, he's malevolent. 

 
 
 
It Is ME
Masters Guide
19.1.39  It Is ME  replied to  Dulay @19.1.38    5 years ago
Remember that the 25 billion was a package that included DACA protections.

WASHINGTON ― Democrats on Capitol Hill said Tuesday they won’t allow President Donald Trump to use undocumented young people as leverage to get support from the lawmakers for building a border wall, locking up more immigrants and cutting legal immigration.

Democrats are nothing more than "Anti-Wall and Pro-Illegals" !

 
 
 
Dulay
Professor Expert
19.1.40  Dulay  replied to  Jack_TX @19.1.27    5 years ago
Campaign promise #1 done.

Campaign promise #1 was to build a WALL that MEXICO would pay for

 
 
 
Dulay
Professor Expert
19.1.41  Dulay  replied to  It Is ME @19.1.39    5 years ago
Democrats are nothing more than "Anti-Wall and Pro-Illegals" !

The link I posted was from Jan. 2018, yours was from Aug. 2017. Grassley and Durbin went to Trump with a deal and Stephen Miller and Trump ambushed them. 

 
 
 
It Is ME
Masters Guide
19.1.42  It Is ME  replied to  Dulay @19.1.41    5 years ago

"Crying for ILLEGAL Refugees" Schumer and "Illegals are voters" Pelosi run the LIBERAL show !

 
 
 
Dulay
Professor Expert
19.1.43  Dulay  replied to  It Is ME @19.1.42    5 years ago

Don the Con, Turtle man and the Young gun ran the WHOLE SHOW for 2 years and failed miserably. 

 
 
 
It Is ME
Masters Guide
19.1.44  It Is ME  replied to  Dulay @19.1.43    5 years ago
failed miserably. 

He's got the Dem's whining and crying AGAIN. Not a failure in my eyes.

Trumps Presidency has hurt YOU.....How ?

 
 
 
Sparty On
Professor Principal
19.1.45  Sparty On  replied to  It Is ME @19.1.44    5 years ago

They've got Chronic Butt-hurt ...... which is very painful i've heard .....

 
 
 
It Is ME
Masters Guide
19.1.46  It Is ME  replied to  Sparty On @19.1.45    5 years ago
which is very painful i've heard

Democrats seem to luv to "Parade" about it ! :-)

 
 
 
Dulay
Professor Expert
19.1.47  Dulay  replied to  It Is ME @19.1.44    5 years ago
He's got the Dem's whining and crying AGAIN.

Gee, I just checked C-Span and didn't see anyone crying...

Not a failure in my eyes.

IOKIYAR

Trumps Presidency has hurt YOU.....How ?

Off the top of my head:

Conspired with a foreign power to game our electoral process. 

Neutered the GOP. 

Neutered the EPA. 

Auctioned off Federal land and Monuments. 

Put two RW judges on the SCOTUS.

Targeted the rule of law. 

Stoked racism and xenophobia. 

Embarrassed our nation in the eyes of the world. 

Continued his campaign to repeal the ACA without a replacement. 

Kept National Parks open during the shutdown allowing damage that will take years to repair, if EVER. 

 
 
 
It Is ME
Masters Guide
19.1.48  It Is ME  replied to  Dulay @19.1.47    5 years ago
Off the top of my head:

In better words:

He hasn't physically or monetarily hurt YOU one bit. Just your "Feelings" were hurt !

 
 
 
Dulay
Professor Expert
19.1.49  Dulay  replied to  It Is ME @19.1.48    5 years ago
He hasn't physically or monetarily hurt YOU one bit.

Not for lack of trying. 

Just your "Feelings" were hurt !

The deterioration of America's standing in the world, the rule of law, water, air and the beauty of our National Parks and Monuments isn't about my 'feelings'.  

 
 
 
It Is ME
Masters Guide
19.1.50  It Is ME  replied to  Dulay @19.1.49    5 years ago
Not for lack of trying. 

So you just did the "Bluster" thingy ?

"The deterioration of America's standing in the world, the rule of law, water, air and the beauty of our National Parks and Monuments"

Sheeeeeesh…..we're ALL gonna die. :-(

Let me know when that actually happens....won't you ?

 
 
 
Jack_TX
Professor Quiet
19.1.51  Jack_TX  replied to  Dulay @19.1.38    5 years ago
Remember that the 25 billion was a package that included DACA protections.

Well...DT said he wanted a path to citizenship.

Frankly I didn't pay attention to the proposal at the time, so there may have been some problems with it, but it certainly seems to me that he would have wanted to strike while the iron was hot.

 
 
 
Jack_TX
Professor Quiet
19.1.52  Jack_TX  replied to  Dulay @19.1.40    5 years ago
Campaign promise #1 was to build a WALL that MEXICO would pay for

It's real easy to say the renegotiated trade deal will generate more than $5.7 billion over some number of years.  That's just traditional smoke and mirrors with govt money.  

 
 
 
Jack_TX
Professor Quiet
19.1.53  Jack_TX  replied to  Dulay @19.1.49    5 years ago
The deterioration of America's standing in the world, the rule of law, water, air and the beauty of our National Parks and Monuments isn't about my 'feelings'.

The "deterioration of America's standing in the world" is most definitely all about your 'feelings'.

 
 
 
Dulay
Professor Expert
19.1.54  Dulay  replied to  It Is ME @19.1.50    5 years ago
So you just did the "Bluster" thingy ?

How obtuse. For almost 9 years the RW's hair was on fire because they were SURE that Obama would take their guns away. 

Now, millions of Americans, including my wife and I, are worried about Trump repealing the ACA and leaving us without health coverage because of our preexisting conditions. 

Let me know when that actually happens....won't you ?

I already did. 

 
 
 
Dulay
Professor Expert
19.1.55  Dulay  replied to  Jack_TX @19.1.51    5 years ago
but it certainly seems to me that he would have wanted to strike while the iron was hot.

Perhaps it's an example of Trump's inexperience governing and lack of understanding of how the Congress has historically 'moved on'. Being a business guy, he still thinks that the deal is still there to be had. I doubt he even understands that the House appropriation committees are now run by the Dems and that ship has sailed. No more House rubber stamp. 

What's been interesting lately is that McConnell is giving Trump the cold shoulder. Mitch is STILL pissed that Trump reneged on the CR. It looks like Mitch is DONE with letting Trump hanging him out to dry. Mitch insists now that unless Trump PUBLICLY states that he'll sign the funding bill, he won't bring it to the floor. 

 
 
 
Dulay
Professor Expert
19.1.56  Dulay  replied to  Jack_TX @19.1.53    5 years ago
The "deterioration of America's standing in the world" is most definitely all about your 'feelings'.

You must not have read Gen. Mattis' resignation letter. 

 
 
 
Dulay
Professor Expert
19.1.57  Dulay  replied to  Jack_TX @19.1.52    5 years ago
It's real easy to say the renegotiated trade deal will generate more than $5.7 billion over some number of years.

It's only easy for a habitual liar like Trump. 

That's just traditional smoke and mirrors with govt money.

Government money that doesn't even exist yet since the treaty hasn't passed the Congress. 

"I'll gladly pay you Tuesday for a hamburger today" 

 
 
 
Dulay
Professor Expert
19.1.58  Dulay  replied to  It Is ME @19.1.50    5 years ago

Just for you It. 

Joshua trees cut down by vandals during government shutdown

800

 
 
 
Atheist יוחנן בן אברהם אבינו
Junior Participates
19.1.59  Atheist יוחנן בן אברהם אבינו  replied to  True American Pat @19.1.5    5 years ago
BTW......Wall and Fence are considered Synonyms

Also BTW, Scumbag repeated umpteen times during the campaign and since that it would be concrete (I believe he even said "beautiful concrete) and, of course, entirely paid for by Mexico.  Is there be no recognition of lying from his supporters?  

 
 
 
True American Pat
Freshman Silent
19.1.60  True American Pat  replied to  Atheist יוחנן בן אברהם אבינו @19.1.59    5 years ago

If he leaves office and Mexico doesn't pay for the wall.....it will be a Major Campaign Promise that he didn't keep.....Would this be the first President to do something like this.....I don't think so......That being said....I wouldn't like it any more than Obama telling me I can keep my Plan, My Doctor etc...etc....etc....

 
 
 
Dulay
Professor Expert
19.1.61  Dulay  replied to  True American Pat @19.1.60    5 years ago
If he leaves office and Mexico doesn't pay for the wall.....it will be a Major Campaign Promise that he didn't keep....

Trump has known that Mexico would never pay a dime for his wall since Jan. 27, 2017. Trump BEGGED Peña Nieto not to tell the press that Mexico would not pay for the wall, telling him that it would hurt him politically. The transcript is very enlightening. I was surprised that Trump realized just how precarious his position really was. 

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
19.1.62  Texan1211  replied to  True American Pat @19.1.60    5 years ago
f he leaves office and Mexico doesn't pay for the wall.....it will be a Major Campaign Promise that he didn't keep.

Just like Obama promising to close Gitmo, right?

 
 
 
The Magic 8 Ball
Masters Quiet
19.1.63  The Magic 8 Ball  replied to  Dulay @19.1.61    5 years ago
Trump has known that Mexico would never pay

and so did everyone who voted for him... LOL

why is it only the left thinks trump actually meant they would write a check up front or pay a bill 30 days after completion?  no one I have met IRL actually thought that... what gives?

I mean seriously... we all knew he means they would pay in other ways. they are paying now and will pay more before it is all over. the new trade deal and just stopping those caravans has cost mexico millions with millions more spent securing their own southern border as result.   they are paying thru the nose as we speak and it is not even over yet.

I guess, like brevity, "reading between the lines" is becoming a lost art.

cheers :)

 

 
 
 
Dulay
Professor Expert
19.1.64  Dulay  replied to  The Magic 8 Ball @19.1.63    5 years ago
I mean seriously... we all knew he means they would pay in other ways. they are paying now and will pay more before it is all over. the new trade deal and just stopping those caravans has cost mexico millions with millions more spent securing their own southern border as result.   they are paying thru the nose as we speak and it is not even over yet. I guess, like brevity, "reading between the lines" is a lost art.

What an utter load of bullshit. The 'new trade deal' hasn't even gone through Congress yet. 

So are the caravan's INVADING or did Mexico stop them? Pick ONE. 

As for securing their OWN southern border, exactly HOW does that pay for Trump's WALL? 

BTFW, here's a little document for your perusal. 

Introduction 
The provision of the Patriot Act, Section 326 - the "know your customer" provision, compelling financial institutions to demand identity documents before opening accounts or conducting financial transactions is a fundamental element of the outline below. That section authorized the executive branch to issue detailed regulations on the subject, found at 31 CFR 130.120-121. It's an easy decision for Mexico: make a one-time payment of $5-10 billion to ensure that $24 billion continues to flow into their country year after year. There are several ways to compel Mexico to pay for the wall including the following:

It gets funnier...

 
 
 
Atheist יוחנן בן אברהם אבינו
Junior Participates
19.1.65  Atheist יוחנן בן אברהם אבינו  replied to  Texan1211 @19.1.62    5 years ago
Just like Obama promising to close Gitmo, right?

 The difference, of course, is Obama's goal was to stop crimes against humanity while Scumbag's trying to expand them. 

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
19.1.66  Texan1211  replied to  Atheist יוחנן בן אברהם אבינו @19.1.65    5 years ago

Gitmo is a crime against humanity?

LMFAO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 
 
 
arkpdx
Professor Quiet
19.1.67  arkpdx  replied to  Texan1211 @19.1.66    5 years ago

Quick question. In order to be a crime against humanity, wouldnt it have to involve actual human beings as victims?

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
19.1.68  Texan1211  replied to  arkpdx @19.1.67    5 years ago

Have to ask him---I have no clue what he is going on about.

I suspect I am not alone.

 
 
 
Atheist יוחנן בן אברהם אבינו
Junior Participates
19.1.69  Atheist יוחנן בן אברהם אבינו  replied to  Texan1211 @19.1.68    5 years ago
I suspect I am not alone.

Sadly, true.   

 
 
 
Atheist יוחנן בן אברהם אבינו
Junior Participates
19.1.70  Atheist יוחנן בן אברהם אבינו  replied to  Texan1211 @19.1.66    5 years ago

C.I.A. Torture Left Scars on Guantánamo Prisoner

If you think waterboarding is fun and funny, I heartily encourage you to get someone to do it to you. 

 
 
 
epistte
Junior Guide
19.1.71  epistte  replied to  arkpdx @19.1.67    5 years ago
Quick question. In order to be a crime against humanity, wouldnt it have to involve actual human beings as victims?

What qualifies a person as being a human being?  Your beliefs that others are less deserving of respect and human rights protections is what causes atrocities such as the Holocaust. How many people will be irreparably harmed before you stop listening to your emotions and be driven by an instinct for revenge?  Can others do the same to you, or is this action a one-way street?

 

uring the Holocaust, Nazis referred to Jews as rats. Hutus involved in the Rwanda genocide called Tutsis cockroaches. Slave owners throughout history considered slaves subhuman animals. In Less Than Human , David Livingstone Smith argues that it's important to define and describe dehumanization, because it's what opens the door for cruelty and genocide.

"We all know, despite what we see in the movies," Smith tells NPR's Neal Conan, "that it's very difficult, psychologically, to kill another human being up close and in cold blood, or to inflict atrocities on them." So, when it does happen, it can be helpful to understand what it is that allows human beings "to overcome the very deep and natural inhibitions they have against treating other people like game animals or vermin or dangerous predators."

Rolling Stone recently published photos online of American troops posing with dead Afghans , connected to ongoing court-martial cases of soldiers at Joint Base Lewis-McChord in Washington state. In addition to posing with the corpses, "these soldiers — called the 'kill team' — also took body parts as trophies," Smith alleges, "which is very often a phenomenon that accompanies the form of dehumanization in which the enemy is seen as game."
 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
19.1.72  Texan1211  replied to  Atheist יוחנן בן אברהם אבינו @19.1.70    5 years ago
If you think waterboarding is fun and funny, I heartily encourage you to get someone to do it to you.

I never said it was fun.

And it was never necessary for Obama to close Gitmo to accomplish that.

All it took was an order from him.

 
 
 
arkpdx
Professor Quiet
19.1.73  arkpdx  replied to  epistte @19.1.71    5 years ago

The victims of the Holocaust were not animals and subhumans but the perpetrators certainly were . Those that would cut off someones head or burn them alive or crucify children certainly are. Those that hijack and fly airplanes into buildings killing thousands of victims, those that plant bombs in crowded market places to kill innocent people are subhumans. I have no problem locking the terrorists for eternity . I have no issue with them living under harsh conditions. I often wonder why you and others like you can have sympathy and compassion for the terrorist scum  

 
 
 
It Is ME
Masters Guide
19.1.74  It Is ME  replied to  Dulay @19.1.58    5 years ago

Seems we have an "Axe" problem. Time to pass legislation banning "Long Handled" axes huh !

 
 
 
It Is ME
Masters Guide
19.1.75  It Is ME  replied to  Dulay @19.1.54    5 years ago
including my wife and I, are worried about Trump repealing the ACA and leaving us without health coverage because of our preexisting conditions. 

Gosh ….. Hindsight ?

Seems ya shoulda been paying for Health insurance BEFORE you all got sick.

What a concept huh !

Procrastination at it's finest I'd say.

 
 
 
Dulay
Professor Expert
19.1.76  Dulay  replied to  It Is ME @19.1.74    5 years ago
Seems we have an "Axe" problem.

Axes don't chop down trees, people do.../s

Time to pass legislation banning "Long Handled" axes huh !

Time to post a reward and prosecute. 

 
 
 
Dulay
Professor Expert
19.1.77  Dulay  replied to  It Is ME @19.1.75    5 years ago
Gosh ….. Hindsight ?
Seems ya shoulda been paying for Health insurance BEFORE you all got sick.
What a concept huh !
Procrastination at it's finest I'd say.

Presume much?

We DO pay for health insurance. 

 
 
 
Atheist יוחנן בן אברהם אבינו
Junior Participates
19.1.78  Atheist יוחנן בן אברהם אבינו  replied to  epistte @19.1.71    5 years ago

What's the term people who classify another group of people non-human and therefore deserving of extermination, again, episette? There's a word for them.  I just can't think of it right now.  

 
 
 
Atheist יוחנן בן אברהם אבינו
Junior Participates
19.1.79  Atheist יוחנן בן אברהם אבינו  replied to  arkpdx @19.1.73    5 years ago
The victims of the Holocaust were not animals and subhumans but the perpetrators certainly were .

By perpetrators, you're referring to those who decided their victims weren't human and therefore deserved extermination.  These were monsters who would say of those victims, for example:

In order to be a crime against humanity, wouldnt[sic] it have to involve actual human beings as victims?

Look familiar, ark? 

 
 
 
arkpdx
Professor Quiet
19.1.80  arkpdx  replied to  Atheist יוחנן בן אברהם אבינו @19.1.79    5 years ago

There you go defending terrorist scum again . It that since they hate America so much you consider them al

 
 
 
It Is ME
Masters Guide
19.1.81  It Is ME  replied to  Dulay @19.1.77    5 years ago

Just Now ?

If you had led with DID and DO, I might have believed you !

Not so much based on that response.

 
 
 
Atheist יוחנן בן אברהם אבינו
Junior Participates
19.1.82  Atheist יוחנן בן אברהם אבינו  replied to  arkpdx @19.1.80    5 years ago
There you go defending terrorist scum again . It that since they hate America so much you consider them al

Adding lies to the horrible self-portrait you've already given us doesn't help your case much, ark, but it's completely reduced you to pure babbling in that second mess of what was meant to be a sentence above. 

 
 
 
It Is ME
Masters Guide
19.1.83  It Is ME  replied to  Dulay @19.1.76    5 years ago
Axes don't chop down trees, people do.../s

Funny how you think that to be a sarcastic statement !

People are never at fault. The Tool ALWAYS tell "People" them what to do.....right ? (Facepalm Face)

Just like a wall ALWAYS "Draw" people in. LOL !

 
 
 
arkpdx
Professor Quiet
19.1.84  arkpdx  replied to  Atheist יוחנן בן אברהם אבינו @19.1.82    5 years ago
second mess of what was meant to be a sentence above

[Deleted]

You are still standing up for terrorists.

Why? 

 
 
 
Dulay
Professor Expert
19.1.85  Dulay  replied to  It Is ME @19.1.81    5 years ago
Just Now ?

Actually no, been with the same plan since the ACA passed.

If you had led with DID and DO, I might have believed you ! Not so much based on that response.

I could not care less whether you believe me or not. 

BTW, perhaps reading more carefully would help. 

 
 
 
It Is ME
Masters Guide
19.1.86  It Is ME  replied to  Dulay @19.1.85    5 years ago
Actually no, been with the same plan since the ACA passed

I knew it !

You weren't paying Shit until then.

Were you "Sick" before ACA ……..  Or did you just become "Sick" after ACA ?

 
 
 
Jack_TX
Professor Quiet
19.1.87  Jack_TX  replied to  It Is ME @19.1.86    5 years ago
I knew it ! You weren't paying Shit until then.

That's not necessarily the case.  Do remember that the ACA forced insurers to cancel millions of perfectly good plans at the time.

 
 
 
Atheist יוחנן בן אברהם אבינו
Junior Participates
19.1.88  Atheist יוחנן בן אברהם אבינו  replied to  arkpdx @19.1.84    5 years ago
You are still standing up for terrorists.

Ahhh, hysterical and ridiculously false smears--the last desperate gasp of a completely failed  case.  It's become your trademark, ark. 

 
 
 
arkpdx
Professor Quiet
19.1.89  arkpdx  replied to  Atheist יוחנן בן אברהם אבינו @19.1.88    5 years ago

Nothing hysterical nor false in my statement but your lack of a specific denial does speak volumes .

 
 
 
Atheist יוחנן בן אברהם אבינו
Junior Participates
19.1.90  Atheist יוחנן בן אברהם אבינו  replied to  arkpdx @19.1.89    5 years ago
Nothing hysterical nor false in my statement but your lack of a specific denial does speak volumes .

I believe calling your desperate smear false is a denial but comments from you don't really merit any response.  I did you a courtesy you did not deserve.  NFO.  

 
 
 
arkpdx
Professor Quiet
19.1.91  arkpdx  replied to  Atheist יוחנן בן אברהם אבינו @19.1.90    5 years ago

Just because you say it's false does not make it so. It seems like a very accurate statement to me 

 
 
 
It Is ME
Masters Guide
19.1.92  It Is ME  replied to  Jack_TX @19.1.87    5 years ago
That's not necessarily the case.

The "case" I was commenting with....Didn't bring up any such thing....sooooo…..I commented based on information given.

 
 
 
Atheist יוחנן בן אברהם אבינו
Junior Participates
19.1.93  Atheist יוחנן בן אברהם אבינו  replied to  arkpdx @19.1.91    5 years ago
It seems like a very accurate statement to me 

Let me quote and paraphrase someone whom you might know: " Just because it seems very accurate to you does not make it so."

ark, I don't know why you like to make it so easy for me to take you apart but don't think I'm not appreciative.  jrSmiley_28_smiley_image.gif

 
 
 
Dulay
Professor Expert
19.1.94  Dulay  replied to  It Is ME @19.1.86    5 years ago
I knew it ! You weren't paying Shit until then.

Again, I suggest you READ MORE CAREFULLY! I said we had been on the same plan since the start of the ACA, NOT that we weren't COVERED before the ACA. In FACT, my wife worked for the Federal government before the ACA. 

Were you "Sick" before ACA ……..  Or did you just become "Sick" after ACA ?

No but my wife was and NOW we don't have to worry about paying higher premiums because of EITHER of our 'pre-existing' conditions. 

BTFW, put your air quotes were the sun don't shine. 

 
 
 
arkpdx
Professor Quiet
19.1.95  arkpdx  replied to  Atheist יוחנן בן אברהם אבינו @19.1.93    5 years ago
easy for me to take you apart

Not even close not even a scratch on me. I think I'll end this now and I am tired of waiting for you to disprove the truth of my comment . 

 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
19.1.96  Tessylo  replied to  Dulay @19.1.64    5 years ago

Did you hear, there's now a caravan forming in the Honduras and they'll be here soon, according to the shitstain in chief 

 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
19.1.97  Tessylo  replied to  True American Pat @19.1.23    5 years ago

Dulay was looking for a link to Jack's fraudulent claim about Medicare fraud and you posted a link to the thesaurus.

Duh

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
19.1.98  Texan1211  replied to  Jack_TX @19.1.19    5 years ago

Not quite that much, but LOADS of lost money, for sure.

https://abcnews.go.com/Nightline/medicare-fraud-costs-taxpayers-60...

https://www.forbes.com/sites/merrillmatthews/2012/05/31/medicare...

www.medicare.gov › Forms, help, & resources

 
 
 
It Is ME
Masters Guide
19.1.99  It Is ME  replied to  Dulay @19.1.94    5 years ago
I said we had been on the same plan since the start of the ACA

EXACTLY !

"NOT that we weren't COVERED before the ACA."

There was a reason for that huh. (Snicker Face)

 
 
 
It Is ME
Masters Guide
19.1.100  It Is ME  replied to  Tessylo @19.1.96    5 years ago
Did you hear, there's now a caravan forming in the Honduras and they'll be here soon, according to the shitstain in chief 

Did you hear ?????

The "Media" is reporting it without naming Trump at all ! (Facepalm Face)

 
 
 
Dulay
Professor Expert
19.1.101  Dulay  replied to  It Is ME @19.1.99    5 years ago
There was a reason for that huh. (Snicker Face)

You stated:

I knew it ! You weren't paying Shit until then.

That was a lie. 

There is a reason for that huh. 

 
 
 
It Is ME
Masters Guide
19.1.102  It Is ME  replied to  Dulay @19.1.101    5 years ago
That was a lie. 

No it wasn't.

If it truly was, it wouldn't have taken you this long to think up an "EXCUSE" to call it a lie ! It would have been the first thing you posted as a retort and THEN....said it was a LIE !

Are you LYING to me now ?

 
 
 
Jack_TX
Professor Quiet
19.1.103  Jack_TX  replied to  Tessylo @19.1.97    5 years ago
Jack's fraudulent claim

Oh sweetie...... calling widely publicized factual information "fraudulent".....bless your heart.

Medicare fraud and waste in 2016 was $60 billion, according to the Kaiser Foundation.      

That doesn't include Medicaid.  DHS says that loss rate is 11-12% also.  

Some studies put the combined number as high as $272 billion.   

 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
19.1.104  Tessylo  replied to  It Is ME @19.1.100    5 years ago

No, it was Rump who said it, the caravan from the Honduras  and the media reported it.

 
 
 
It Is ME
Masters Guide
19.1.105  It Is ME  replied to  Tessylo @19.1.104    5 years ago
and the media reported it.

So TRUMP was RIGHT !

Got it !

 
 
 
lib50
Professor Silent
19.1.106  lib50  replied to  Jack_TX @19.1.87    5 years ago
Do remember that the ACA forced insurers to cancel millions of perfectly good plans at the time.

Choices were made by insurance companies if their plans didn't cover basic things, the same things that were missing from worthless policies people paid for but didn't cover things when they came up.  It happened all the time.    But don't call the CHOICES made by many companies compulsory, it is far more complicated than that.  Here is a link to some of the lies and myths.  This kind of thing happens when corporations and individuals value profit from sick people over healthcare, and have no moral qualms with that choice.  Overall the ACA benefited far more Americans than it screwed.  Some states mucked it up purposefully, hurting their people.  Far more egregious.

 
 
 
Jack_TX
Professor Quiet
19.1.107  Jack_TX  replied to  lib50 @19.1.106    5 years ago
Choices were made by insurance companies 

Insurers were not allowed to continue offering non-grandfathtered plans sold between the signing of the act in 2010 and the implementation of the exchanges on 1-1-14.

if their plans didn't cover basic things,

Most of the plans covered basic things.  Everything from the flu to cancer to heart disease to prescriptions to broken bones to mental health.  Most plans did not cover maternity or covered it as an option.  Most plans did not offer unlimited lifetime benefits (because it's totally unnecessary) and preventative care usually had a copay.  No plans offered $700 of pediatric dental coverage. 

But the real issue was that those plans were all medically underwritten, so the risk pools were full of reasonably healthy people and therefore the premiums were less.  The Obama Administration would not allow people to keep those plans because the premiums on "metallic" plans would have been even higher.

the same things that were missing from worthless policies people paid for but didn't cover things when they came up.

The idea that policies were "worthless" is just idiotic DailyKos style nonsense.  Insurance has been a highly regulated industry for decades.  People were covered for the things detailed in the policy itself....like cancer, heart disease, accidents, immune disorders and the vast majority of other conditions.   Millions of Americans are still on grandfathered policies, issued prior to the signing of the ACA, and those policies cover all sorts of ailments quite nicely.  Nobody seems to call the "worthless".....  Hmmmmmm.........

  It happened all the time.

It certainly did not happen all the time.  ACA supporters frequently point to policies being rescinded, but that has only ever been legal if the insured has made material misrepresentations when obtaining the coverage in the first place, and was never a widespread practice.

    But don't call the CHOICES made by many companies compulsory,

If you purchased an individual health plan between March 23, 2010 and December 31, 2013, your insurer did not have the option to renew that policy on Jan 1, 2014.  When the "choice" in question is to "comply with federal law or not", that's officially "compulsory.

it is far more complicated than that.

It's exceedingly complicated, yes.

  Here is a link to some of the lies and myths.

Good link.  You'll notice it does not address this specific issue.

  This kind of thing happens when corporations and individuals value profit from sick people over healthcare, and have no moral qualms with that choice. 

Canceling perfectly good medical policies on generally healthy people is in fact the antithesis of what you describe.

Overall the ACA benefited far more Americans than it screwed.  Some states mucked it up purposefully, hurting their people.  Far more egregious.

It certainly helped some people.  It hurt many more, in ways that most casual observers will never realize.  It has created a system that violates sound actuarial principles.  ACA defenders bury their head in the sand and pretend this didn't happen, but had the tables been reversed they'd be screaming.

 
 
 
Dulay
Professor Expert
19.1.108  Dulay  replied to  It Is ME @19.1.102    5 years ago
No it wasn't.

Yes it was. 

If it truly was, it wouldn't have taken you this long to think up an "EXCUSE" to call it a lie ! It would have been the first thing you posted as a retort and THEN....said it was a LIE !

I haven't posted any 'excuses'. 

Are you LYING to me now ?

Yes. /s

 
 
 
It Is ME
Masters Guide
19.1.109  It Is ME  replied to  Dulay @19.1.108    5 years ago

"Half a truth is often a great lie.

Benjamin Franklin

 
 
 
Dulay
Professor Expert
19.1.110  Dulay  replied to  It Is ME @19.1.109    5 years ago
"Half a truth is often a great lie."
Benjamin Franklin

Zero truth is always a lie.

Me. 

 
 
 
It Is ME
Masters Guide
19.1.111  It Is ME  replied to  Dulay @19.1.110    5 years ago
Zero truth is always a lie.

Meet Dulay !

 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
19.1.112  Tessylo  replied to  Jack_TX @19.1.103    5 years ago

I'm not your sweetie.  

 
 
 
freepress
Freshman Silent
20  freepress    5 years ago

The entire country should prove a point by starting a campaign to send millions of individual Lego bricks to the White House. 

Then get a high school team to build a model of the southern border and take the Legos and try to build a "wall" over the various harsh terrain. 

Just to prove in real time that it won't work on any scale.

Seizing private lands across several states and looking at thousands of lawsuits is the biggest deterrent of all. 

 
 
 
epistte
Junior Guide
20.1  epistte  replied to  freepress @20    5 years ago
Just to prove in real time that it won't work on any scale. Seizing private lands across several states and looking at thousands of lawsuits is the biggest deterrent of all. 

We should not allow reality to get in the way of Trump's current self-made fiasco,

 
 
 
MonsterMash
Sophomore Quiet
20.1.1  MonsterMash  replied to  epistte @20.1    5 years ago
We should not allow reality to get in the way of Trump's current self-made fiasco

We should not allow congressional Democrats, American haters, and illegal invaders to get in the way of national security

 
 
 
321steve - realistically thinkin or Duu
Sophomore Guide
20.1.2  321steve - realistically thinkin or Duu   replied to  MonsterMash @20.1.1    5 years ago
national security

national security ?

How many americans die each year at the hands of illegals ?

over 540,000 people die each year in America from alcohol and tobacco that's your national crisis right there unless your into securing the dead. 

 
 
 
MonsterMash
Sophomore Quiet
20.1.3  MonsterMash  replied to  321steve - realistically thinkin or Duu @20.1.2    5 years ago
How many americans die each year at the hands of illegals ?

[Deleted]

 
 
 
321steve - realistically thinkin or Duu
Sophomore Guide
20.1.4  321steve - realistically thinkin or Duu   replied to  MonsterMash @20.1.3    5 years ago
How many americans die each year at the hands of illegals ?
cant find the number eh ? Neither could I. 
Removed for context

I think my sacrifice has been quite enough I lost ALL of my immediate family to alcoholism including my two younger siblings. I see no one too upset about my losses and No one doing a damn thing to stop it from happening over and over to others.

Just the opposite, deadly booze and cigs at every convenience store in America. Meanwhile the non deadly alternative marijuana is still illegal in most of america and not properly integrated anywhere in america.

Go figure.  Build a wall, Build it huge... people will still be dropping dead more from booze and tobacco in this  country than even if ya let in anyone who wants to come here. 

I lost respect for America and our leaders long ago. They all play us against each other for their gain. Money is king here and we are but pawns in the rich people's world. 

Good Luck America. 

 
 
 
MonsterMash
Sophomore Quiet
20.1.5  MonsterMash  replied to  MonsterMash @20.1.3    5 years ago

[Deleted]

 
 
 
MonsterMash
Sophomore Quiet
20.1.6  MonsterMash  replied to  321steve - realistically thinkin or Duu @20.1.4    5 years ago
I think my sacrifice has been quite enough I lost ALL of my immediate family to alcoholism including my two younger siblings

My dad, one of my uncles and youngest brother died as a direct result of alcoholism, my dad at age 53 chocked to death while passed out on his own vomit after a night of heavy drinking. My brother  ( 23 years old) hit a tree after he decided to drive home drunk from a bar. My uncle died ( 58) from Cirrhosis of the liver due to alcohol.

Do you seriously think that's an excuse for not having stricter border security?

It's not my fault or yours we both had alcoholic family members.

 
 
 
321steve - realistically thinkin or Duu
Sophomore Guide
20.1.7  321steve - realistically thinkin or Duu   replied to  MonsterMash @20.1.6    5 years ago
Do you seriously think that's an excuse for not having stricter border security? It's not my fault or yours we both had alcoholic family members.

First I'm sorry for your losses. Alcoholism sucks. I'm fortunate not of have been one of the millions it's claimed myself perhaps you are as well.

As far as the border I'm all for having a secure border and always have been,

I'd actually like to see a joint effort between us and mexico to fund a long lasting secure border, with fencing where reasonable and good surveillance where the physical fence is unreasonable. I think most Americans would also agree.

The Problem is in how we pay for it all, that's really always been the problem. Many leaders have tried to raise the funding and many have succeeded in raising Part of what is needed overall. As time goes on of  course it t gets more expensive so it gets harder to raise the funds. also we really do have less people crossing illegally.

But here comes trump the's gonna fix it. anyway he think he needs to do it. Always a grandiose fix though, TRUMP.

First it was the WALL now its build it TODAY... when this man actually backs off of his grandiose ideas and actions his solutions can be made to be realistic,

Funding is whats really needed, But how trump is out to get that funding I do not agree with, neither his ways or means of accomplishing it. (I rarely do with this man) 

My hope is that that is once again that is the case with immigration. He'll back off somewhat and reason will prevail. We'll see. Time will tell. 

 
 
 
321steve - realistically thinkin or Duu
Sophomore Guide
20.1.8  321steve - realistically thinkin or Duu   replied to  MonsterMash @20.1.3    5 years ago
[Deleted]

DAMN

I hate it when someone says something to me and I can't "Hear"it.

(I looked back I think I did, Thank you for not "poofing" my reply) 

That's why I dont like stuff taken down against me, I reply for myself just fine. 

Got it though, COC...   nuff said. 

 
 
 
MonsterMash
Sophomore Quiet
20.1.9  MonsterMash  replied to  321steve - realistically thinkin or Duu @20.1.7    5 years ago
Alcoholism sucks. I'm fortunate not of have been one of the millions it's claimed myself perhaps you are as well.

Due to alcoholism being prevalent in my family I never touched it not going take a chance on becoming an alcoholic

Medicare for all would cost Nearly $1.4 trillion a year, Democrats are all for it, but can't come up with Trumps request of $ 5 billion for a wall,

"I'd actually like to see a joint effort between us and mexico to fund a long lasting secure border, with fencing where reasonable and good surveillance"

Then you say "the physical fence is unreasonable" Does that mean you were for a fence before Trump wanted it?

 
 
 
igknorantzrulz
PhD Quiet
20.1.10  igknorantzrulz  replied to  MonsterMash @20.1.9    5 years ago
Does that mean you were for a fence before Trump wanted it?

whats amatter, can't someone use the GOP's playbook on Obama /?

 
 
 
321steve - realistically thinkin or Duu
Sophomore Guide
20.1.11  321steve - realistically thinkin or Duu   replied to  MonsterMash @20.1.9    5 years ago
Then  "the physical fence is unreasonable" Does that mean you were for a fence before Trump wanted it?

 Too bad people dont use the words that actually mean what they want to say.

Trump calls for a wall. even the border patrol does not want a wall they can not see thru.

you say "the physical fence is unreasonable"   Where ?

I have always thought a fence where reasonable was a good idea, that along with patrols and technology should be able to stop almost any thing or anyone crossing illegally. 

IF and when trump starts using proper wording he may have more of a chance of succeeding without alienating so many. 

In reality: An apple is still an apple, a wall is still a wall and a fence is still (Ya guessed it)  A FENCE.

 
 
 
Dulay
Professor Expert
20.1.12  Dulay  replied to  321steve - realistically thinkin or Duu @20.1.7    5 years ago
The Problem is in how we pay for it all, that's really always been the problem. Many leaders have tried to raise the funding and many have succeeded in raising Part of what is needed overall. As time goes on of  course it t gets more expensive so it gets harder to raise the funds. also we really do have less people crossing illegally.

Every single Homeland Security, CR or Consolidated Appropriations bill has had funding for border fencing, including the on that Trump signed by Trump in March of 2018. 

The sad irony about funding is that neither the DHS or CBP has chosen a 'barrier design' nor have they put a COST on building that barrier. The 2018 GAO report on 'the WALL' eviscerates the CBP for it's failure to follow DHS's OWN funding processes and procedures. 

First it was the WALL now its build it TODAY... when this man actually backs off of his grandiose ideas and actions his solutions can be made to be realistic,

You forgot the 'most of the WALL has been built and it's doing a great job' despite the FACT that NO WALL has been built. 

Funding is whats really needed, But how trump is out to get that funding I do not agree with, neither his ways or means of accomplishing it. (I rarely do with this man)
My hope is that that is once again that is the case with immigration. He'll back off somewhat and reason will prevail. We'll see. Time will tell.

IMHO, what's needed to happen BEFORE funding is a NONE partisan evaluation on what REALLY works and a cost/benefit evaluation be conducted. Unless and until Trump and his minions STOP 'parsing' words, stops cherry picking data and stops basing national security decisions purely on campaign promises, it will be impossible to trust there posits on this issue. 

 
 
 
321steve - realistically thinkin or Duu
Sophomore Guide
20.1.13  321steve - realistically thinkin or Duu   replied to  Dulay @20.1.12    5 years ago
IMHO, what's needed to happen BEFORE funding is a NONE partisan evaluation on what REALLY works and a cost/benefit evaluation be conducted.

I would agree, but I think that really has pretty much been done already. Border Portal knows what they need and where. trump don't care, he's got to reinvent the wheel, preferably wth the trump name stamped somewhere on it.

 
 
 
Dulay
Professor Expert
20.1.14  Dulay  replied to  321steve - realistically thinkin or Duu @20.1.13    5 years ago
I would agree, but I think that really has pretty much been done already.

Yet the GAO reports states clearly that it hasn't been. Trump and the CBP spent MILLIONS on prototypes of 'a WALL' that didn't meet it's own stated specs. They spent MILLIONS more on prototypes that STILL didn't meet their specs. That tells me that they didn't do a 'cost/benefit evaluation' on the prototypes and from everything that I have read, merely rubber stamped the funding as a Trump vanity project. 

Border Portal knows what they need and where.

Yet Trump brought the head of the CBP Union to his 'news conference' and this, in part, is what he said:

"I promise you, if you interview Border Patrol agents, they will tell you that walls work," Judd told the media. "I worked in Naco, Ariz., for ten years. We didn't have physical barriers in Naco and illegal immigration and drug smuggling was absolutely out of control. We built those walls, those physical barriers, and illegal immigration dropped exponentially. Anywhere that you look, where we have built walls, they have worked ... We need those physical barriers and we appreciate President Trump and all of his efforts in getting us those physical barriers."

I wholeheartedly agree with you that people should use the words that the mean. Trump says WALL, the head of the CBP union says WALL, yet we ALL know it's a FENCE, even in Naco, AZ. 

So IMHO, Trump and the head of the CBP union need to STOP insulting the intelligence of the American people. As you said: "a wall is still a wall and a fence is still (Ya guessed it) A FENCE."

trump don't care, he's got to reinvent the wheel, preferably wth the trump name stamped somewhere on it.

Exactly. For Trump, as long as his base believes the BS he slings, FACTS don't matter. The LAST thing Trump want's to admit is that every foot of border FENCING that has been built under his watch has been of the SAME design and material as the FENCING that was built in 2013. All of his 'grandiose' blathering has had NO EFFECT on what is actually being built on the border. Trump has done little except to waste funds and lie. 

 
 
 
321steve - realistically thinkin or Duu
Sophomore Guide
20.1.15  321steve - realistically thinkin or Duu   replied to  Dulay @20.1.14    5 years ago
Yet the GAO reports states clearly that it hasn't been. Trump and the CBP spent MILLIONS on prototypes of 'a WALL' that didn't meet it's own stated specs

I dont doubt that, I was actually talking pre-trump when the border patrol used the correct words like most of us do. They know what works, they just need more of it. 

every foot of border FENCING that has been built under his watch has been of the SAME design and material as the FENCING that was built in 2013.

That is the "NONE partisan evaluation" I was referring to that I think has pretty much been done worked out.

Seems we're pretty much on the same page. LOL

Dump trump, go back to sanity. 

 
 
 
Dulay
Professor Expert
20.1.16  Dulay  replied to  321steve - realistically thinkin or Duu @20.1.15    5 years ago
Dump trump, go back to sanity. 

If only it were that easy. It pissed me off that Trump traipsed CBP agents into the press conference. They should not be so partisan and should NEVER pretend that their members support Trump's vanity project. Especially when their own documents PROVE that to be a lie.  

 
 
 
321steve - realistically thinkin or Duu
Sophomore Guide
20.1.17  321steve - realistically thinkin or Duu   replied to  Dulay @20.1.16    5 years ago
It pissed me off that Trump traipsed CBP agents into the press conference.

Just another flaw of the mans personalty, he manipulates anyone around him to his will. as any good dictator does. trump may not be a dictator but he plays one in the oval office. and worse yet this really isn't just a reality show on network television, its real life folks. 

 
 
 
321steve - realistically thinkin or Duu
Sophomore Guide
20.1.18  321steve - realistically thinkin or Duu   replied to  321steve - realistically thinkin or Duu @20.1.4    5 years ago
Removed for context

What BS

 
 
 
Dulay
Professor Expert
20.1.19  Dulay  replied to  MonsterMash @20.1.9    5 years ago
but can't come up with Trumps request of $ 5 billion for a wall,

Has Trump come up with a way to PAY for the 5 BILLION? I'm not talking about his fabricated crap about trade deals, I'm talking about a REAL proposal. 

 
 
 
lady in black
Professor Quiet
20.1.20  lady in black  replied to  Dulay @20.1.19    5 years ago

No he has not, he just WANTS it and HE WANTS IT NOW, male version of Veruca Salt

 
 
 
epistte
Junior Guide
21  epistte    5 years ago

 
 
 
MonsterMash
Sophomore Quiet
22  MonsterMash    5 years ago

They passed some laws, but the illegal invaders kept a coming because the liberals wouldn't enforce the laws the said they were for.

The prez made rules but the liberal courts overturned them, they were convinced illegals had to stay.

They spread some lies to make illegals look good guys, Our problems aren't coming from a place called Mexico. they're coming from congressional Democrats bend on making America fall

 
 
 
321steve - realistically thinkin or Duu
Sophomore Guide
22.1  321steve - realistically thinkin or Duu   replied to  MonsterMash @22    5 years ago

A wall is grandiose, unrealistic , unneeded and unwanted by the people who actually protect this county. trump wanted a monument, let his ass buy it then. We already owe our government too much as individuals each and Mexico told trump to go fuck himself and his wall long ago. 

We already approved, are building and are paying for a fence. IF trump wants a wall, he can pay for it. 

 
 
 
igknorantzrulz
PhD Quiet
22.1.1  igknorantzrulz  replied to  321steve - realistically thinkin or Duu @22.1    5 years ago
IF trump wants a wall, he can pay for it. 

I'll buy it for him,

10' x 10' with a shtter n a bunk bed and a BUBBA 

 
 
 
321steve - realistically thinkin or Duu
Sophomore Guide
22.1.2  321steve - realistically thinkin or Duu   replied to  igknorantzrulz @22.1.1    5 years ago
I'll buy it for him,

Just start a Go Fund Me Page. 

$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ Rollin in.....

LOL 

 
 
 
MonsterMash
Sophomore Quiet
22.1.3  MonsterMash  replied to  321steve - realistically thinkin or Duu @22.1    5 years ago
A wall is grandiose, unrealistic , unneeded and unwanted by the people who actually protect this county.

ICE wants it, border patrol wants it and the majority of people living on the Mexican border want it. Have you seen the walls around Nancy Pelosi's and Chuck Schumer's homes? I haven't heard of either one of them leaving the gates open for uninvited guest.

 
 
 
MonsterMash
Sophomore Quiet
22.1.4  MonsterMash  replied to  321steve - realistically thinkin or Duu @22.1    5 years ago
We already approved, are building and are paying for a fence.

If Trump wanted a 3 foot high wood picket fence Democrats would say that's racist

 
 
 
Split Personality
Professor Guide
22.1.5  Split Personality  replied to  MonsterMash @22.1.3    5 years ago
ICE wants it, border patrol wants it and the majority of people living on the Mexican border want it.

ICE has nothing to do with it.  The Border Patrol wants more agents first, and a mixture of fence and technology

The "people on the border" are not united in what they want, but generaly want to control these projects locally.

Have you seen the walls around Nancy Pelosi's and Chuck Schumer's homes?

No, because they don't have walls.........

This is Pelosi's real home, complete with protesters, not some picture of a walled palace meme circulating on the internet.

320

Chuck Schumer has an apartment in the Park Slope Apts much to the chagrin of his neighbors in Brooklyn NY.  Again, no wall.

320

It's a high rise apartment building, but there are tiny fences around the street side trees

 
 
 
Split Personality
Professor Guide
22.1.6  Split Personality  replied to  Split Personality @22.1.5    5 years ago

This is the "Queen Anne"  a mansion a few blocks away from Pelosis home but within view.

320

The pictured property, known as the Queen Anne, is located at 2724 Pacific Avenue in Pacific Heights, a wealthy area of San Francisco. The house was designed by E.A. Hermann, constructed in 1894 and was the most expensive house on the San Francisco market in 2013 (it eventually sold for $24 million in 2015). However, Pelosi doesn’t own it. 

The confusion likely stems from a virtual tour of the mansion published  in  Forbes  in 2013. The writer of the article mentioned Pelosi because her house was in the same neighborhood and could be seen from one of the mansion’s wraparound porches:

 
 
 
MonsterMash
Sophomore Quiet
22.1.7  MonsterMash  replied to  Split Personality @22.1.5    5 years ago

Pelosi-Zinfandel-Lane-gate-768x318.png

 
 
 
MonsterMash
Sophomore Quiet
22.1.8  MonsterMash  replied to  MonsterMash @22.1.7    5 years ago

Pelosi and her husband Paul own a vineyard on Zinfandel Lane in St. Helena, California.

The above and below is a Google satellite view of the property:

 
 
 
MonsterMash
Sophomore Quiet
22.1.9  MonsterMash  replied to  MonsterMash @22.1.8    5 years ago

Pelosi-Zinfandel-Lane-gate-768x318.png

 
 
 
321steve - realistically thinkin or Duu
Sophomore Guide
22.1.10  321steve - realistically thinkin or Duu   replied to  MonsterMash @22.1.3    5 years ago
A wall is grandiose, unrealistic , unneeded and unwanted by the people who actually protect this county.
ICE wants it, border patrol wants it

 
 
 
321steve - realistically thinkin or Duu
Sophomore Guide
22.1.11  321steve - realistically thinkin or Duu   replied to  MonsterMash @22.1.4    5 years ago
If Trump wanted a 3 foot high wood picket fence Democrats would say that's racist

Sorry I cant help what your opinion of their opinion is. 

Thanks for playing though, have a nice rest of the night, I'm off here for a time. 

 
 
 
Split Personality
Professor Guide
22.1.12  Split Personality  replied to  MonsterMash @22.1.7    5 years ago

Good info but this is a better image.

I would not bet that that low stone wall goes  around all 65 acres. 

320

 
 
 
Split Personality
Professor Guide
22.1.13  Split Personality  replied to  MonsterMash @22.1.9    5 years ago

Looks like something decorative and judging by the mail box, something an average person could step over.

BTW it's only along Zinfandel Lane, not the rest of the property although there is deer netting around many of the grape vines.

 
 
 
321steve - realistically thinkin or Duu
Sophomore Guide
23  321steve - realistically thinkin or Duu     5 years ago

Trump Says He Could Invoke Emergency Powers To Build Wall Without Congress

“I can do it if I want. … We can call a national emergency because of the security of our country, absolutely,”

Please do, stop pussy footing around grow a pair and get that pen out. 

You are president do what ever you feel like.... PLEASE ! 

Of Course there will be no negative reaction you are king.

Americans loved to be forced.

LOL, ass hat ! maga 

 
 
 
321steve - realistically thinkin or Duu
Sophomore Guide
 

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