Lishon Ha Ra v. Lishon Tov (Bad versus Good Speech)

By:  enoch  •  2 weeks ago  •  51 comments

Lishon Ha Ra v. Lishon Tov (Bad versus Good Speech)
"Death and Life Are in the Power of the Tongue". Mishlai (Proverbs) 18:21

In the Talmudic Tractate - Erchin (15 b) it is written, "A person's tongue is more powerful than his sword. A sword can only kill someone who is nearby. A tongue can cause the death of someone who is far away". 

That is as true today, maybe more so than when this was written.

We read of those cyber stalked and cyber bullied who commit suicide due to idle and false gossip; nasty verbal attacks from remote locations. 

Technology is neutral. It can be used for good and misused for evil with equal effort.

Rabbi Yisroel Meyer Kagan (Chofetz Chayim) wrote a book (Guard Your Tongue) about how gossip (Lishon ha Ra - the evil tongue) can destroy a community.

He cites thirty one distinct examples from the Torah of why speaking and listening to gossip is prohibited because it why and how it causes harm to innocent people, and indelibly stains the souls of those who do this.

This points made me think about how speech (including written communication) affects for good and bad our News Talkers community. 

Words do have power in positive and negative ways. 

This discussion thread calls upon all News Talkers Community members to share your thoughts, experiences and suggestions for how to make the ways we communicate here bring us closer together, better informed, and help us all be better persons. 

What kinds of speech acts help and hurt us?


What can we do for the greater good of our community about this?

How can we remain true to what we opine and extend the same to others who see things differently than do we?

How can we impart and receive the wisdom of others when not our own viewpoints?

How can we tweak it to fit how we live our lives here and elsewhere?

How we help and be helped by others when and as needed and wanted through what and how we communicate here?

As ever, please follow site CoC, TOS; and the Four B's.

Be Respectful.

Be On-Point.

Be Positive.

or Be Gone!

Let's see if together in fellowship and good will we can make 2019 the best year yet for all in our News Talkers Community.

Let's actualize our potential to be the best on line community on the Internet. 

We can be a role model to all in cyber space on how to use diversity of views to identify and build on the glue which binds a community together in peace, harmony, and caring through respectful sharing.

Onward and Upward in 2019.




jrDiscussion - desc
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1  author  Enoch    2 weeks ago

How can we communicate to build up rather than hurt our News Talkers community?

Your ideas, original, from other sources important to you, personal experiences here and elsewhere are welcome.

All that is asked is to follow the site CoC, TOS; and the Four B's.

Be Respectful.

Be Positive.

Be On-Point.

or Be Gone!

Let this New Year be a time to pivot on communicating be be closer, rather than splitting us apart and driving others away.

Many don't favor conflict.

There isn't the appetite to have what is important to them trashed.

They do seek diversity of view points on matters of mutual interest.

E Pluribus Unum.

Shalom U'vrachem. (Peace and Abundant Blessings to Us All).


Nowhere Man
2  Nowhere Man    2 weeks ago

One does have to be accepting of other points of view brother, or at least see the worth of hearing out a different aspect of a question.

Hard to do in person much less with the anonymous keyboard in between.....

And then there is the pesky claim of free speech which has been used to advance all sorts of vile behaviors......

Although I agree, once shouldn't carry tales......

"A wagging tongue becomes a wagging tail" --unknown

2.1  CB  replied to  Nowhere Man @2    2 weeks ago
"A wagging tongue becomes a wagging tail" --unknown

I have not heard this before, and I like it.

Perrie Halpern R.A.
3  Perrie Halpern R.A.    2 weeks ago

Well, first of all, I think we should talk TO one another and not make comments that are personal in nature.

And I think, even if we disagree, we can do so respectfully. There's no need to make it personal. 

3.1  CB  replied to  Perrie Halpern R.A. @3    2 weeks ago

I will say this in the interest of the new year; we, who come to social media daily and a lot 'see' each others' minds a lot. We should be able to be somewhat honest with each other and not just unpaid "politicians" doodling away for fun and for some maybe profit (meaning astro-turfer and troller types).

The issues we discuss-some are serious, can bear on and are pulled from life in the real world by design, and are not always light-hearted. Social media itself came face to face with this when some of us fought valiantly (and lost) in 2016 trying to 'combat' bots which help pollute multiple discussion platforms with poisonous, invective, "speech." It was rhetoric meant to cut like a knife, cause chaos, and certainly digitally diminish or destroy online and real world reputations.

It is a complicated subject and I am not all all sure friend Enoch's article is the place for this. But, it is what it is.

3.1.1  author  Enoch  replied to  CB @3.1    2 weeks ago

Dear Brother CB: It is indeed a complicated subject.

It is the case that not everyone who posts (anonymously) on the Internet is so doing in good faith, objectively, and with the best interests of the greater good in heart.

Regarding this site and community, how can we be true to ourselves, and still give others the room to make their cases in a way which brings us closer as a community?

Your input is awaited, and will be appreciated.

It always is, brother.

Peace and Abundant Blessings Always.


3.1.2  CB  replied to  Enoch @3.1.1    2 weeks ago

Stop gratuitous attacks on and quit attempts to quench the spirit of religious discussion on this site. Every mention of religion should not be a call and give license to atheists to convene a 'lecture' series sit-in! Nothing good comes out it. Indeed, 'good people and discussion' flees in intimidation or disgust. It is 'defeating' of good order and decency.

"Jesus," "God," "G-d," "Faith" are not  four-letter-word expressions in my opinion!

Short and concise, friend Enoch.

3.1.3  author  Enoch  replied to  CB @3.1.2    2 weeks ago

Dear Brother CB: Good and important points raised.

Agreeing or disagreeing with a position is fair game.

Trying to annihilate ideas, ideologies and ways of living life just because an individual or collection of such don't agree with it does the community no good whatsoever.

No one can seriously ask to be taken seriously or respected when they set out to annihilate what is most important to others.

Live and let live.

Get back the respect one gives out is fair game.


Vic Eldred
3.2  Vic Eldred  replied to  Perrie Halpern R.A. @3    2 weeks ago

Let me underscore that. There are way too many discussions degenerating into a personal attack. That is where the moderators need to be vigilant.

3.2.1  author  Enoch  replied to  Vic Eldred @3.2    2 weeks ago

Dear Friend and Brother Vic: As goes the saying, vigilance is the price of freedom.

Freedom is well worth the effort.

Great point.

We owe those who serve here as moderators a major debt of gratitude.

It is a thankless, but most necessary job.

How would you suggest we as authors, seeders and posters help them in what they do by how we do what we do?

As ever, your guidance and sagacity helps us in what we do, that we may do it better.

A wonderful 2019 to you and yours. 


Vic Eldred
3.2.2  Vic Eldred  replied to  Enoch @3.2.1    2 weeks ago
How would you suggest we as authors, seeders and posters help them in what they do by how we do what we do?

We have two choices. Either flag it and I believe there are consequences for that (a corruption of the system) or we discretely indicate to the individual that discussion is best kept impersonal.

A wonderful 2019 to you and yours. 

And to you & yours old friend

3.2.3  author  Enoch  replied to  Vic Eldred @3.2.2    2 weeks ago

Dear Friend Vic: Super suggestions.



3.3  author  Enoch  replied to  Perrie Halpern R.A. @3    2 weeks ago

Dear Friend Perrie: Very well said indeed.

Address the idea, respect the person from whom it sprang.

Thanks for this wisdom and warmth.

Peace and Abundant Blessings Always.


Trout Giggles
3.3.1  Trout Giggles  replied to  Enoch @3.3    2 weeks ago

That can be difficult when you see a certain commenter  thru a filter.

I admit that I don't respect all the members here

3.3.2  author  Enoch  replied to  Trout Giggles @3.3.1    2 weeks ago

Dear Friend Trout Giggles: Happy, healthy, joyous, meaningful, and prosperous 2019 to You and Yours.

Respect must be earned. It cannot be coerced, extorted, or compelled.

I so agree.

We should not respect those who do not earn it.

We can offer it on condition of human decency, and best interests of the site.

Good points made.

Thank you.

Peace and Abundant Blessings.


Trout Giggles
3.3.3  Trout Giggles  replied to  Enoch @3.3.2    2 weeks ago

Here's to your joyous and happy New Year, Enoch

3.3.4  author  Enoch  replied to  Trout Giggles @3.3.3    2 weeks ago



4  author  Enoch    2 weeks ago

Dear Brother Nowhere Man: Great points all. 

We can hear out those with whom we disagree.

We can accept them, the right to have their views without agreeing if we do not.

The value to understanding the world through the eyes by which others see it is at least the following.

Once we know from where they are coming, we can appreciate better what they do, believe and opine, even if we do not.

We also can find common ground where it exists.

Built on that.

Using words to comprehend and bond is all day long superior to employing them to hurt or belittle.

I join our brother and good friend CB in liking, and thanking you for sharing the unknown origin quotation.

We are indebted for your outstanding contribution here, as in all other areas of this site.

Peace and Abundant Blessings Always.


5  dave-2693993    2 weeks ago


Once again, as usual, you have your finger on the pulse of the significant issue of how we coexist.

I think about this as well, but thinking about it and putting a spotlight on it are 2 different things.

You are the messenger from a greater perspective. Most of us, for which ever reasons, keep ourselves confined within that perspective for the greater period of time.

Sometimes we need to step outside of our usual realm and take a look at the broader perspective around us.

It seems all to  easy for ideology to become more important the "humanology".

Really, even that is too small. Shouldn't we look beyond that as well?

I have noticed in things the easiest path often leads to destruction.

Water. Ever try to stop a flood?

Bolt of lightening. Who can stop that flow of current?

Gravity. Who can stop it's effects with the engines in that plane shut off?

The forces always take the easiest path.

The antagonistic words. How do they fit into the universe around us? I think we see the answer to that question everyday.

Sometimes it takes effort to fight  against falling in to the easiest path which is flowing like the raging flood. Maybe there is another choice. Maybe our perspective can help us avoid that flood stream?

5.1  author  Enoch  replied to  dave-2693993 @5    2 weeks ago

Dear Brother Dave: Superlative flow of ideas and expressions thereof. 

Ya done good!

We can all go the extra mile in being the keepers of our brothers and our sisters in this community.

It is a big site.

There is room for everyone. Every idea. Every perspective.

We must always remind ourselves that there is a flesh and blood breathing caring feeling human being on the other side of a keyboard interchange.

The best way to be an Ambassador for a view point is to show concern for how we address an idea. The way we must express waht we wish to convey must first be modified to treat the expression recipient in the manner we wish to be addressed.

Thanks Dave.

We are all indebted to you.

We know you can be counted on to keep us all "wallking the chalk".

Peace and Abundant Blessings Always.


Raven Wing
6  Raven Wing    2 weeks ago

We should all be respectful of one another, even if we may disagree on some points. No one here on this site comes here to be verbally abused. 

We should all strive to keep an open mind, as by doing so we can learn from one another, even if we disagree.

We should also understand that words meant to make others look bad and insult their intelligence, in fact only make ourselves look bad and insult our own intelligence. 

There are two Native American sayings that aptly apply,

       "Listen, or your tongue will make you deaf." 

       "It is not necessary for Eagles to be Crows."

Just my own opinion

6.1  author  Enoch  replied to  Raven Wing @6    2 weeks ago

Dear Sister Raven Wing: As we plant, so shall we harvest. 

Address a point.

Make a case.

Embrace the person.

All people, not just the ones with whom one agrees.

Some individuals are like the denominator of a fraction. The bigger they try to make themselves, the smaller they really are.

Go large, not small.

Include and respect one and all.

Its the best way to stand tall.

You remain a cut above Sister. 

All the honors to you.

Peace and Abundant Blessings Always.


7  Kathleen    2 weeks ago

Well, the old saying is, if you have nothing nice to say, don't say anything at all.'

Very few people listen to that. 

I guess I look at it like those that are angry and bitter are the real ones in pain. I actually feel sorry for them more then anything else.

I don't know, lately for me that is, it's been rather bad on here.

7.1  MUVA  replied to  Kathleen @7    2 weeks ago

I have decided to only say nice things only from now on and Raven I don't mind the verbal abuse.

7.1.1  author  Enoch  replied to  MUVA @7.1    2 weeks ago

Dear Friend Muva: Yours is the best, most constructive New Year's Resolution I read for all News Talkers for 2019 to date.

A good second is to perform acts of loving kindness each time an act of viciousness is witnessed.

Each in their own ways works well.

For the record, I en joy reading your posts.

You express well many positions worthy of consideration.

We are grateful.

Peace and Abundant Blessings in 2019 and Well Beyond to You and Yours.


7.1.2  MUVA  replied to  Enoch @7.1.1    2 weeks ago

I hope you and your's will have a great new year I strive to be as kind as you.

Raven Wing
7.1.3  Raven Wing  replied to  MUVA @7.1    2 weeks ago
and Raven I don't mind the verbal abuse.

That is indeed your own choice. However, others, including myself, DO mind the verbal abuse from others. Just because someone disagrees with someone else, it does not give them the right to verbally abuse the person. 

Good, open and respectful dialog, even in opposing POV, can make for a very enlightening discussion. However, when disagreement devolves into hateful and derogatory verbal abuse, then it eliminates any chance for becoming a learning discussion for anyone.

Simply because some people do not mind verbal abuse directed to them does not in any way condone it. We are all adults and we should conduct ourselves as such. A person's point can be made without sinking to the lowest level.

I refuse to allow anyone to verbally abuse me. For any reason. 

That is my own opinion.

7.1.4  MUVA  replied to  Raven Wing @7.1.3    2 weeks ago

My wife works me over daily so I'm use to being abused I probably deserve it.

7.1.5  author  Enoch  replied to  MUVA @7.1.2    2 weeks ago

Dear Friend Muva: Many thanks for the thoughtful words.

Most valued.


7.1.6  author  Enoch  replied to  Raven Wing @7.1.3    2 weeks ago

Dear Sister Raven Wing: Mine too.

No day light between us.


7.1.7  author  Enoch  replied to  MUVA @7.1.4    2 weeks ago

Dear Friend Muva: Come to my threads.

Get used to being valued, which you indeed to deserve.


7.1.8  Ender  replied to  MUVA @7.1.4    2 weeks ago

You and I may be on opposite ends of the political spectrum yet I can't help it, I kinda like you.

@ Enoch,

I will say as far as this site, there seems to be more interaction between different points of view. more so than the division that seemed to end up being a major part of the last forum.

Though I can't see what happens behind closed doors (groups). Maybe for the best.  Haha

7.1.9  Kathleen  replied to  MUVA @7.1    2 weeks ago

That sounds like a good idea, I think I will start doing the same for now on. Looks like I will be staying on the music, movie and photo articles... lol

7.1.10  author  Enoch  replied to  Kathleen @7.1.9    2 weeks ago

Dear Friend Kathleen: As you already know, we always welcome and profit from your contributions here.

You are most valued.

Peace and Abundant Blessings Always to You and Yours.


7.1.11  Kathleen  replied to  Enoch @7.1.10    2 weeks ago

Thank you for that Enoch, you and Perrie have been very kind to me. 

You take care now...

7.1.12  author  Enoch  replied to  Kathleen @7.1.11    one week ago


Cyber hugs.


7.2  author  Enoch  replied to  Kathleen @7    2 weeks ago

Dear Friend Kathleen: More people should listen, and take to heart your saying. 

No community was ever split asunder by a nice word, a positive expression, or a compassionate understanding of what someone else is undergoing. 

Moreover, if those who come to attack things which may not be for them, but are very much for others would use you and others here like you as role models things would immediately improve to the good.

Your warmth, humanity, kindness, insight into the cycle of abuse, anger, pain and bitterness and outreach to help rather than get even are a lighthouse over the seas of  aggression.

Going positive takes wind out of the sails of the negative.

Would there are more like you here.

Peace and Abundant Blessings to You and Yours Always.


8  Ender    2 weeks ago

I have seen some very good discussions. I have also seen just back and forth with zero depth.

I think it just kind of comes with the territory.

Some people can let things roll of their shoulder while some take everything as a slight, even when none was intended. Not even mentioning sarcasm.

Myself, I don't take it all personally, especially on an impersonal platform. Very few things bother me, well one thing did today. A post several 'stars' posted on social media. Sitting at a fancy restaurant in the Swiss Alps singing the song, working '9 to 5' what a way to make a living. Seemed like a slap in the face to ordinary working people, while they make millions of dollars (off said working people) working several months a year. But that has nothing to do with this place. Just using it as an example of what bothers me.

I also noticed I am dyslexic when I type. Constantly have to go back and switch letters.

The nice thing would be if people did have a gripe or beef, to take it to HD, yet none seem to.

There are some articles that seem to bring out the heat. Some articles seem to be just to bring heat. Some great articles get no traction while some bad articles get all the attention.

There is a fine line between passion, obsession and hatred.

I just try to take it all with a bit of humour.

Raven Wing
8.1  Raven Wing  replied to  Ender @8    2 weeks ago
I also noticed I am dyslexic when I type. Constantly have to go back and switch letters.

I myself am not dyslexic, but, my keyboard must be, as it is constantly gets letters backward which I then have to change. And it also tries to out think me and puts words in my mouth that I have to correct. 

But, I find that it seems to be a a keyboard thingy, as no matter which keyboard I use, they do the same thing.  jrSmiley_78_smiley_image.gif   jrSmiley_74_smiley_image.gif

8.1.1  author  Enoch  replied to  Raven Wing @8.1    2 weeks ago

Dear Sister Raven Wing: It would help if the language would be more flexible to my original keyboarding activity when it comes to correct spelling.

Presently, I am terrible at keyboarding in nine languages.

I hope to live long enough to be terrible in ten.

Odd numbers weird me out.



Trout Giggles
8.1.2  Trout Giggles  replied to  Raven Wing @8.1    2 weeks ago

My keyboard constantly skips words I meant to write.

If it would just do what I want it to do not what I told it to do

8.1.3  author  Enoch  replied to  Trout Giggles @8.1.2    2 weeks ago

Dear Friend Trout Giggles: It appears that the vendor we use for keyboards is the same.

My manufacturer is "Go Ahead, I Dare you".

The retail store is, "Ask About Our Satisfaction Or Your Money Back Guarantee. We Could Use a Good Laugh."


8.2  author  Enoch  replied to  Ender @8    2 weeks ago

Dear Friend Ender: You treat it like baseball.

You don't take the World Serious.

Good for you.

Many do come here wanting verbal altercations.

That is their choice.

Many do not come on, or choose not to participate which is their choice.

My concern is what is best for the community.

Not censorship.

Rather finding ways for enough people to take the higher road for the good of the site.

We are indebted to you for a most thought provoking and salient comment series.

Very well done.

Peace and Abundant Blessings in This and Every New Year.


Buzz of the Orient
9  Buzz of the Orient    2 weeks ago

These days what a person may text or type can be more powerful (and more painful and damaging) than a sword - which in a way returns to the adage "The pen is mightier than the sword".  Although the motto of this site may be "Speak Your Mind" it sadly is in many cases a window into the "Evil that lurks in the hearts of men." (Only The Shadow knows).   I, for one, was an advocate for a stricter CoC, but after all, this is an American site, and the combination of Free Speech and anonymity is revered to the extent of allowing members to be hurtful and intolerant, and there are those here who take advantage of that. 

9.1  author  Enoch  replied to  Buzz of the Orient @9    2 weeks ago

Dear Friend Buzz: You are correct in all you say.

I cannot, and choose not to argue with the truth.

It falls on us, and our colleagues in this thread to take the high role.

Be role models.

Know that it is both true the ones who most need to use us as role models will not.

Also that what we do will help the site over all, over time. 

That is, for good and all all there is.

Peace and Abundant Blessings Mein Besten Chaver Buzz.


9.2  Ender  replied to  Buzz of the Orient @9    2 weeks ago

I understand what you are saying yet I have a different point of view.

Over the years I have been called every name in the book. The way I see it, it has diminished their power. When one resorts to insults, they have no argument. They feel threatened and diminished, so they attack.

There are people that I know and we are political opposites, yet in every other aspect of life, we get along great. There seems to be people that want division. People that think compromise is a bad word. Which I would say, is not most people.

I am definitely no angel. I have said said many quips, I admit it. I have also been proven wrong on occasion. 

I applaud Enoch for always being a voice of reason and having a positive point of view. He does have an impact. I guess my point is,

People and words only have power if one lets them. I try not to sweat the small stuff.

9.2.1  author  Enoch  replied to  Ender @9.2    2 weeks ago

Dear Friend Ender: "People and words only have power of one lets them. I try not to sweat the small stuff".

Truer and wiser words never spoken.

Not a ray of sunlight between us dear Brother Ender.

That said, not everyone is us.

As a battle scarred veteran of combat, and Pastor of a religious minority I never had time to be a shrinking violet. Neither time nor interest.

As a Chaplain, I see people who are on the giving and receiving end of cruelty.

Often the givers are there because they have been on the receiving end.

So much pain. So little reason.

It would be my highest honor to be put out of business from doing Pastoral Care if cycles of all kinds of abuse, verbal and otherwise would disappear.

We both know that is not the world in which we live.

I bring up this discussion thread to see if, although it will never be perfect, it can be better here.

Thoughtful, wise, honest, and incisive contributions like yours are the icing on the cake.

We are most grateful.

Profound thanks.

Peace and Abundant Blessings Always.


10  Kavika     2 weeks ago

Sadly in many instances on NT the articles are, at best, junk posted to ridicule the opposite party. I've pretty much have stayed away from those articles. 

IMO, the article that could have an interesting discussion many times are derailed by those that choose that as a means of communication, childish as it is. 

Anyhow, words can and do hurt but each of us can choose to ignore those members and their negative stance (although slapping them up beside the head at times feels great)

A kind word or to debate a stance with someone can be fun and a learning experience. Sadly that rarely happens. 

10.1  author  Enoch  replied to  Kavika @10    2 weeks ago

Dear Brother. Treasured Writing Partner and Close Friend in Joy and Tears of Many Years Kavika: Immaturity, keyboard cowardice, the notion that it is necessary to crush any idea, and anyone holding it because it is other than one's own (anyone who would disagree agree must be evil and punished, now and forever) are the core of the problem here.

You, as Ender and many other fine sagacious News Talkers here have made the point that "Don't feed a troll" is the way to go. That works for those of us who skip the poison mushrooms, E Coli laden entrees and Salmonella sides articles and posts. "When they go low, we go high". Where there is immaturity we are the adults in the room.

My concern, and a lot of this stems from being there for those hurting and being hurt as a Chaplain is that the site is not the better off for the loss of active participation, and loss of membership from  people who want a place to come to get smarter. Remember when that happened at the News Vine? Recall when it ceased there, and so did the News Vine?

At our age, it is hoped we do not see this treasure of a site disappear for the same reason.         

I join you in abstaining from comments and other forms of participation at seeded articles designed just to get under the skin of people who are unlike the seeder. In part, because I see it, as do you, Ender and others here for what it is.

Also, I refrain form running through a verbal sewer to chase a rat because officially or not I am the de facto Chaplain of The News Talkers. I need to not be involved in pettiness with people, some of whom, when the chips are down for them may elect of their own volition to come to me in site private notes, and thereafter in private emails for such Pastoral Care they and/or theirs may need and want. At 3/4ers of a century, I never said and will never say in time remaining no to anyone who i in need. In each of our traditions being there for others is an example of applied theology and spirituality.

Maybe part of the answer is that folks like you and I; and others need to write more original articles, and for those who post seeds do so of a higher level. Give those who do, used to, and can come here to get smarter, to learn and teach; to help and get assistance free form pest misconduct. 

Besides our hedge against inflation in retirement has always been splitting 50-50 all the cash and royalties we never made on our collaborations.

At least keeping us out of higher tax brackets has given some financial length from bone. 

2019, our year to lift the site by co-authoring.


Peace and Abundant Blessings Always to a Most Special Person, and All His Own.


Perrie Halpern R.A.
11  Perrie Halpern R.A.    2 weeks ago

I've been meaning to comment on this article. 

My parents always reminded me that if I didn't have something nice to say, then say nothing. 

I hope that I bring that to this forum. I try to treat everyone with respect. I may fail sometimes, but not for lack of trying. 

11.1  author  Enoch  replied to  Perrie Halpern R.A. @11    one week ago

Dear Friend and Fearless Suite Leader Perrie: You bring so much to the forum of a site which owes its very existence to you.  

Well done on every front.

All I advocate of those who come to the site is to keep things civil.

Disagreement is a part of life.

It can be healthy.

It can be harmful.

It is in and of itself neutral.

It's all a matter of how it is done.

My concern here was, is and always will be what is best for the site. 

We know those who come looking for a fight, and/or trying to force their own views on others because they see anyone not opining as do they as evil individuals doing bad things. 

What we do not know or can always quantify with any precision is home many people stay away from participating, and even visiting this site in droves.

Not every one is into being disrespected, or having what matters and works so well for them so much dismembered by those who have an animus towards it with or without any case to be made for so doing.

"Do not do to others what is hateful to you".

Words of wisdom then, now and always.

Thanks for all you do.

We are most deeply appreciative.

Peace and Abundant Blessings in 2019 and Far Beyond.



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