Americans aren't making enough babies to replace ourselves
S E E D E D C O N T E N T
Americans are having fewer and fewer babies, a new government report finds. In fact, we now aren’t making enough babies to replace ourselves.
For the population to reproduce itself at current numbers, the “total fertility rate” needs to be 2,100 births per 1,000 women of childbearing age per year, researchers for the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention said in their report , released early Thursday. But the latest data show a current rate of just 1,765.5 per 1,000, or 16 percent below the number needed to keep the population stable without additions through immigration.
The total fertility rate has been declining steadily for seven years, but the numbers for 2017 represent the biggest drop in recent history. The rate for 2016 was 1,820.5; for 2015, 1,843.5; and for 2014, 1,862.5.
The CDC offered no explanation for why the American fertility rate is dropping so precipitously.
Experts say the decline isn’t due to a single cause, but rather a combination of several factors, including changing economics, delays in childbirth by women pursuing jobs and education, the greater availability of contraception, and a decline in teen pregnancies.
The trend seen in the United States is also seen in much of the developed world, including Western Europe, said Dr. John Rowe, a professor at Columbia University’s Mailman School of Public Health. One important factor driving this is the changing roles of women in society, Rowe said.
“In general women are getting married later in life,” he explained. “They are leaving the home and launching their families later.”
But there’s no guarantee that things will work out as planned.
While some of these women may eventually have two or more babies, others may hit a fertility wall, said Dr. Helen Kim, an associate professor at Northwestern University’s Feinberg School of Medicine.
“I think as women delay childbearing they may not realize that fertility declines with age and that there are limits to what fertility treatments can do for them,” Kim told NBC News on Wednesday. Although there are reports of increased birth rates among older women, “that may not be enough to make up for the decline" in births among younger women.
Moreover, Kim said, the concept of the ideal family size may be changing. “There are shifts where having smaller families is a trend,” she added. “I can’t speak on this as a sociologist, but this is what I’ve seen among my peers and colleagues.”
One of the biggest factors is the decline in teen pregnancies, Rowe said. “We’ve been seeing, year after year, a precipitous drop in the number of births to teenage girls,” he added. “That’s good news. Not only are these children not having children, but they’re also getting a chance to finish high school. And that makes a huge difference to their lives.”
Rowe credits the growth of sex education in the schools for that big drop in teen pregnancies.
Some suspect that the downward trend may peter out or even reverse itself. “It may not be all doom and gloom,” said Donna Strobino, a professor at the Johns Hopkins Bloomberg School of Public Health. “I think it may stabilize once women who have been postponing pregnancy have the births they are planning to have."
And while women’s fertility takes a hit with age, younger women have an option that wasn’t available until fairly recently: egg freezing.
In vitro fertilization "is becoming more and more popular,” said Dr. James Grifo, program director for the NYU Langone Fertility Center. And “more young women are choosing to freeze their eggs to protect themselves in the future.”
The new report didn’t just look at the nation as a whole. It also broke down total fertility rates by state, which ranged from a high of 2,227 in South Dakota to a low of 1,421 in Washington, D.C.
Part of that variation may be related to the passage of the Affordable Care Act, Strobino said. “Some states did not select to expand Medicaid,” she explained. “And that would have impacted access to family planning services.”
Another possible explanation for the variation may be that women with more education tend to live in particular states, Strobino said. Washington, for example, tends to attract more educated women “because of the job market,” she said.
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Lots of both good and bad news here. Pick a topic and go with it.
The economy is too unstable for people of childbearing age and they have too many bills to afford to have children. How can you think of bringing a child into the world when you have trouble keeping a roof over your head and paying your car and college loans. People need to know that they will have a job to pay the bills before they can think of having kids.
That's why the Smart People aren't having children or if they do it's just one child. The Stupid People are still breeding like crazy though or at least enough to replace themselves.
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Well, he has a point. Look at the Duggars. Religious fanatics ARE still breeding like crazy.
Ever see the movie "Idiocracy"?
It's pretty much what zuksam is saying. The smart people didn't have enough babies and the dumb people who home schooled their kids took over the country
Where I live, it's definitely the "stupider" people who have the most babies, and they have them young - making it exceedingly difficult to get a decent education or to break the cycle of poverty.
Nobody should be having unplanned babies unless their birth control fails. It's the biggest decision most people will ever make in their lives, and so many treat it as "hey, whatever happens" instead of actively making a decision whether or not to have children.
With the attacks on PP, I fear we're going to see an increase in teen births again.
There is an old English saying that goes, "The rich get richer and the poor have children", so I guess there is truth to this.
While I am not pleased with the attacks on PP, the articles good news was that the article says:
That made me smile. I was a sex ed teacher and it's good to know that what we taught made a difference.
It's good to have comprehensive sex ed in public schools. Unfortunately here in the Bible Belt people don't want their little darlings to learn anything about sex except just say no.
That doesn't work....
A country over run by breeding mares like the Duggars? Yikes. That is what they envision in their cult - quiverful. Fill the quiver with God's arrows - kids.
just as bad as feral cats
Sex education is the responsibility of parents not schools. I never took it and opted out my children because it’s our responsibility to teach them with the proper Christian morals
I've asked you to stop replying to me.
A lot of parents do not explain sex education to their children appropriately because they're embarrassed. It needs to be taught in school, not to just say no.
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It's not funny charger. I know you like to compare immigrants to feral cats and another poster likes to refer to them as vermin. One poster on this seed refers to them as disease ridden.
I taught them that sex in marriage is a gift from God and as the Bible says, the marriage bed is honorable. That God intended sex within a marriage of a man and a woman to be equally pleasurable for both.
That sex outside of marriage makes you in a state of defilement with God
that birth control in a marriage is acceptable
my sons waited until they married for sex. One did not marry until age 34 and told me that he was so glad that he waited as had his wife who was 32
BTW, I am a grandfather with 5 grandchildren. My youngest son is about to turn 45
The ONLY thing that needs to be taught in school are the 3 R's.
Ever wonder why this country lags behind in actual "Education" ?
Teaching "Feelings" doesn't further actual knowledge !
"Liberal Arts" isn't very lucrative in this day and age.....unless your a "politician" MAJOR !
To each their own.
Many have sex outside of marriage because it's pleasurable and will continue to do so.
Sex is awesome and fun, marriage or not. Especially kinky sex.
And as a Christian I respect their right to do so. But all must bear the consequences of their decisions
What consequences? Forced childbirth?
"compare immigrants to feral cats"
So what you call Breeding mares is bad and what I call feral cats are good?
I think both are big problems that are not needed
What consequences? Marriage does not change any "consequence" of sexual activity.
To religious fanatics, sex is basically bad. It's that whole original sin thing, you know - if we were like Adam and Eve, we wouldn't have sex. Which is ridiculous - Adam and Eve are shown with fig leaves over their genitalia, so obviously they were created with them in place. Why do these people think their god would create people with parts he never expected them to be able to use?
hehe
They're nothing but broodmares so I am correct, not bad.
... in the church basement. what could go wrong.
"They're nothing but broodmares"
If it is OK for you to call US Citizens broodmares then it is also OK for me to call illegal immigrants feral cats
Whatever makes you happy.
Dear Friend Trout Giggles: I saw and love the movie, Idiocracy.
Not only is it hilarious, it has "Electrolytes"!
Enoch, Out Salting My Yards in Advance of the Spring Planting Season.
LOL!!!! That scene cracked me up so much because it was just so ludicrous
That is the problem that needs to be addressed by both economic stability to create a generationally stable larger middle class and both free birth control and explicit sex education. The children of those poor/uneducated parents deserve a chance to be educated so the situation doesn't propagate itself into the next generation.
So true.....That's why we had a baby boom back when everything WAS so affordable. However, there is the immigration from the third world which is taking place world wide. It is the newcomers who will eventually inherit the 1st world. Let us hope they can aspire to the great cultures & civilizations that they will inherit.
What do you think we taught them? Abstance for one.
Idiocracy nailed it IMO, on multiple predictions.
I think it is just some people don't want kids. I know a lot of people my age that don't. My cousin didn't have any yet adopted his.
It use to be pushed on people that one had to bow to societal norms. One was supposed to marry and have kids. If one didn't they were considered odd.
Not so much anymore.
It seems that Scrooge is getting his wish, a reduction in the "excess population". Could it be that Nature seeks a balance, in that it becomes concerned about overpopulation? Anyway, at least China isn't alone in facing the consequences of eventually having to support an increasing aging population with less working-age taxpayers. Bah, Humbug.
It's a different world than it was 40-50 years ago. The biggest thing is the cost of housing compared to back then. In the 60's you could work a factory job and if you were frugal you could own a nice house and your wife didn't have to work. You had good medical insurance from work and you didn't worry about retirement because you had a pension. As long as you got up every morning and went to work you were set, or at least that's what most People believed. Under those circumstances why not have three or four kids. Today if you're smart you hold off hoping to get yourself in a good financial position but uncertain job market, high cost of living, crappy insurance coverage, lack of pensions, and high divorce rates make people a lot less confident about their future. We've all seen friends lose a good job with benefits and end up with two or three part time jobs with no benefits, we've seen them lose houses and cars. The Young People grew up with that around them even if it didn't happen to their family. Uncertainty about the future. Both Parents working and even a College degree isn't enough to make you solidly middle class these days.
I have to agree with you zuksam. Life is not what it used to be.
Yes, zuksam, you are perfectly right.
"Beam me BACK, Scotty"
Good take. Life is very uncertain these days and because of that people having fewer children and having them later in life. Well, smart people. The dumbest of us a breeding like fucking rabbits.
My wife and I have two. I want a third but she isn't so sure. Anyhow, daycare/preschool alone costs us about $1000 a month, and then when you add on food costs, clothes etc. they eat up a substantial chunk of our monthly income. Luckily for us I made some wise financial decisions during the recession and as such we don't have to worry about retirement any longer, and with our jobs we make more than enough to cover the monthly bills and have disposable income, but most aren't that lucky. And that is just the financial aspect of having kids, the lifestyle aspect changes significantly as well. All of a sudden vacations need to be planned months in advance if you take them at all, you can't go out anymore, when you get off work and go home you work even harder, and of course someone always needs something or is getting hurt. Having kids is tough all the way around, I really don't blame people for wanting fewer or none at all.
This situation is prevalent in many countries. Japan being one that really being affected by it. In fact for the past 4 years their population has been declining. Germany and other countries in western Europe are in the same bind. Germany has the lowest birth rate in the world.
So the problem isn't only the US but numerous countries around the world.
Birth rates by race/ethnicity in the US. American Indians have the highest followed by Hispanic, Native Hawaiian/Pacific Islanders, Asian and white.
Cost of having a child today, better opportunities for women (jobs), education and simply couples feeling that they do not have to have children (social pressure) are, IMO, some of the main reasons for the lower birth rate.
Sorry, Blacks are right behind Hispanics in the birth rate.
I think it's that and also what zuksam said @ 3.1 . Job expectations are not what they used to be.
This really is a phenomenon only being seen in developed nations, China is going to run into it hard but that was self-inflicted.
Childbearing isn't especially well supported in the US. Little to no maternity leave, difficulty finding good child care, cost of that child care - it all makes having a child and having a career a difficult prospect.
People are still free to do as they please. Women even more so that years past. And that's a good thing but no one is forcing them to do anything.
If people didn't chase the consumerism that gets pushed by society so hard, one person can still work and make ends meet. BUT ...... you may not be able to live in a mansion in teh posh neighborhood. Not every kid may get the latest iPhone each year with unlimited data plan, not every kid needs a flat screen TV in their own room with a premium cable plan. Not every kid needs their own car when they reach legal age. You don't have to eat out so much. A family vacation to Disneyland every year isn't mandatory. Not every kid will get a college education paid for by their parents. Day care isn't needed because one parent stays home, etc, etc ....
Yeah, the one working parent can't work a starter job like flipping burgers at MacDonald's but with a little incentive and hard work they can do what my father did when he got out of the Marines. Previously a farmer, he learned a good paying trade and worked hard to raise his family. We struggled to make ends meet at sometimes but we never went hungry, always had a roof over our heads and we were happy. We never really wanted for anything that was absolutely necessary. Happier i would say than many rich families i knew growing up. Later my family did have it easier because of the hard work ethic initiated primarily by my parents and carried on by us kids.
It can still be done and still is done. People still have a choice. But choices have to made and its not a cakewalk. Never was really.
That said, i personally think many folks are waiting to have kids these days because of the cynicism they are constantly bombarded with by the media these days. I mean .... who wants to bring a new life into a world like that right?
That could be said of most times throughout history. Famines, plagues, droughts, wars ... I don't think there have been too many times when parents weren't bringing their kids into a scary world in one part of the world or another.
With climate change (not trying to start an argument over whether humans cause it; but we know the Earth is still warming after the last Ice Age), I'm glad I don't have kids or, particularly, grandkids. I can't imagine the wars that will break out as the lower lying areas get flooded out and there is a mass migration of humans all over.
I disagree. The proliferation of information has made the world a much smaller place. People today are bombarded by it at unprecedented levels.
Its changed everything in that regard.
I grew up in a pretty hopeless time by todays standards. A VERY cold war threatened nuclear annihilation, aerosol cooling was predicting the next ice age, JFK was assassinated, MLK was assassinated, Vietnam War, etc, etc and yet i never recall feeling the hopelessness that seems to be following current generations. I attribute that attitude largely to the much large dose of information they get hit with than we did.
I don't blame them really. If we were bombarded by one tenth the crap they get hit with these days we would have been more cynical as well
Yes, they are. And it seems that many of them are choosing to have fewer children.
It's not just consumerism. Many women prefer to work outside the home. They are not happy being stay-at-home moms, and many are their families' primary breadwinners. When I was married, I was the primary breadwinner. It would have been foolish for me to have given up my career. Women are also well aware of the risks to their own financial futures from not working - they are at the financial mercy of men who may or may not be there for life.
And no, one income isn't always enough, and wasn't always enough. My dad had a good job when I was growing up. And then the aluminum industry suffered, and he was laid off. The only jobs left in our area were minimum wage, and you can't raise 3 kids and pay a mortgage on one minimum wage job. Mom had to go back to work.
My mother would have liked to work, but her health precluded that. She was never happy with staying at home. My dad was fortunate that the coal mines were still working well when I was growing up, but by the mid-80's he had to go to West Virginia to get enough hours for retirement.
I never could have stayed at home raising children. Even my kids will tell you they were happy I worked, and it wasn't so they could have the latest Iphone or a car when they started driving. It was because it made me a better mother.
I disagree. Its the single biggest component of the problem IMO. We all would have liked "better stuff" but choices have to be made for family fiscal health reasons. That doesn't happen so much today. Look no further than the credit crisis today. People are spending money they don't have and from what i've seen its usually not on necessities.
We have one example of that in my family. Between the two of them working they make significantly more money than the rest of us and yet they are still in hock up to their necks. Why? They piss their money away on unnecessary things. But hey, they all have the latest tech, news cars and biggest house, etc ....... all of it underwater ......
No thanks and not my problem ...
Ok. Most women I know aren't interested in staying home, so they don't.
Me, neither. I'm not especially domestic. I took 6 weeks off after having my son, and the isolation and drudgery were awful. No, thanks.
Women for the most part don't want to stay home. They're getting educated and want to make their own money not pander to a man for it.
No problem. As previously noted i fully support that as an option for anyone.
My only point was there is a choice.
Perhaps not the most popular one for some but a choice just the same.
My mom taught me a very good lesson, she said to never depend on anyone to pay the bills. I am independent and happy that way.
My mom AND dad both taught me that. Education was a big thing to my father. Since my mom couldn't work, my dad made sure she would always be taken care of.
That for me is part of the breakdown of family values and consistent with Marx’s goal of destroying the nuclear family and women in the home
I gotta disagree with that. I remember watching the news when I was a kid, and back in the day, they didn't filter the ugliness of war. We got a daily body count from Vietnam and saw the body bags and injuries. I remember thinking that there would never be a time without war. Then we went straight into the arms raise during the Reagen years and I was pretty sure that was how the world was going to end. Two horrific TV series were made "The Day After" and the even more horrific "Threads" that showed what a post nuclear war would look like.
People felt hopeless back then, too.
Why should anyone but women decide whether they stay home?
I think you should read zuskam's comment here: 3.1
This has nada to do with Marxism. This has to do with economics. You don't get the job security that you used to get, and you don't get the benefits either. People are treated as if they are disposable. How about fixing that first?
It should be a mutual decision if you really honor a marriage partnership. My wife stayed home until the kids were 8n high school and then went out to get a career.
I disagree. My oldest son and his wife made the mutual decision for her to be a stay at home when they had their first child 12 years ago. She gave up a 6 figure nursing career and they trusted God for their economic well being. It took some years but my son is now an executive with a fortune 100 company and they have made up the income loss and I have two of the best grandchildren anyone could hope for.
we believe that when you do what is right in the sight of God, He honors and provides
I don't disagree that it should be a mutual decision, but for many couples, economics had made the decision for them. Both parents need to work. You can't have latch key kids anymore like I was since you'll get arrested for neglect. Things have really changed in what jobs will give you as part of your package, and there is no job security. Life is just different.
So, your comment 5.2.12 isn't implying that women's place is in the home, regardless of the wishes of those women?
No that’s not what I said. It’s a mutual decision and I never implied anything different. I think You read into my statement what you believed about me.
I'm glad it worked out well for your son and wife. I can tell you personally, that was not the case in my family.
I still see couples making the stay at home decision and making the sacrifes that go with it. But I believe you should not have children until you are ready to make adult decisions about caring for them and making them your first priority
you agreed to stop replying to me
and I agree with you on that
Why should women be limited to working in the home when we are educated or do you oppose higher education for women?
My parents made us their first priority, but life was not good to them when they were younger. It was hard. I was a latch key kid and my parents were too proud to ask for help.
Life is what happens when you are making other plans.
I made no such statement. I said it is a mutual decision of husband and wife
That might be true but only if we look at only one of your replies. The problem for that claim is that you have made multiple replies in this thread and when those are taken concurrently the situation is very different. This is your other reply and it changes the situation. You have also made it very clear in previous threads that you oppose public education. Your previous support of a minarchist government would eliminate any secular rights for women and without the current form of secular government, the social power would return to the church which has historically been very patriarchal.
I'll be damned if religious conservatives are going to turn women into helpless brood mares unable to live independently and forced into marriages that we can not get out of because of a lack of job skills to support ourselves. I am not a second-class citizen to any guy because of my XX chromosomes and my uterus.
Actually things are better than they have ever been. Humans have never had it so good, so easy. FFS people living to be over 100 isn't rare any longer. For the most part people do not have to worry about whether or not they will eat that day, the elements aren't an issue. There is no fear of a poor harvest or famine (at least one that is not caused by humans themselves). Getting sick isn't almost a death sentence. As far as wars go, humanity has never been more peaceful.
There has never been a better time to be alive honestly.
That is an issue I will fully agree. The amount of information available, from around the world, at a person's finger tips can be overwhelming. And sadly the shitty things people do are more profitable than the good things people do, thus we are exposed to vastly more shit than cake. When you consider that it is not hard to see why current young people are significantly more cynical than past generations.
Wait, so in the sight of god women are to be kept in the home? And of course, what about all those devout religious folks who are poor as shit? God just kinda says this?
I agree but apparently many don't. Specifically many in younger generations.
I'm sure they were but i wasn't. Not my Uncles/Father who fought in WW-2 and Korea. Not my other family members who fought in Vietnam and/or protested etc, etc. Even with all the bad things going on back then i really don't remember being overly cynical like many today are.
I can't really talk about today though. I'm more cynical right now as well.
This is good news. With the robotic age coming into full swing a reduction in population will benefit all. One of the biggest problems we have is overpopulation. It takes a toll on the environment, the roads with more traffic and reduces the quality of life. With the current welfare state we now have a reduction in population will help to lessen the burden the successful are now stuck carrying on their backs.
Huh?
For once I think he makes sense. With more and more automation, where are people going to find jobs? Even the service industry is turning towards automation (kiosks in fast food restaurants). I personally would like to see less traffic on the highways
I'm glad to see the decline of teen birth rates.
So am I. Thanks to sex ed and better access to birth control ... although I expect that it's in the backward states where religious fanatics try to block access to those things where there are still a lot of teen births.
My kids' school taught abstinence only. I supplemented their sex ed with constant lectures.
I'm not a grandparent.....
I was a sex ed teacher, and all we taught was abstinence. I know it took with many of my students. And I have twin 24 year olds, and no grandchildren, which is fine with me. They are working towards their careers, but I know they do want families.
Now I would have thought that you all up there in the North East would be teaching comprehensive sex ed.
Absolutely! The NYC Board of Ed has a multi-discipline approach. I know that a lot of my students went on to good things because they took the course so seriously.
I'm glad they did.
I got sex ed in 10th grade health class. Our school nurse came in to teach it because the regular teacher was uncomfortable with the subject.
God bless Katie Clendenon! She had to be near 80 when she taught the class but she was forthright and objective...and didn't tolerate the snickering from the football players.
It is, the stats show that pretty clearly.
As far as birth control goes, both my daughters are going to be on it, period. My wife and I are both in full agreement on that lol. Unfortunately (or fortunately) they are both super cute, literally to the point of a modeling agency wanting to utilize my oldest when she was a year and a half, so they damn well will be on BC. I'll be pissed if I am a grandfather in my 40s.
You're a smart man. I put my daughter on BC when she was about 15 because she was having awful periods. But I also knew that I was going to have deal with her dating at some point before she graduated high school. That's why all the lectures.
She laughs about it today
Only a fool or a billionaire has more than two kids in this country anymore. Between college and healthcare, it's untenable anymore.
Not to mention terrible for the world in general. Overpopulation is a real problem. The Earth's resources are finite.
"Americans are having fewer and fewer babies, a new government report finds. In fact, we now aren’t making enough babies to replace ourselves."
BAN Abortions.....it will pick up !
Weird thought huh ! (Smiley Face)
I refuse to say what kind of thought that was.
Oh ..... just go for it ! (snicker face)
Do you deny it would raise the population need as put forth in the article ?
OVER POPULATION IS A PROBLEM. Get it?
So the article is just Hokum ?
Someone has to pay for the "Needy" when all the actual "payers" pass.....right ?
I don't even understand this discussion.
In your "Seed" :
"In fact, we now aren’t making enough babies to replace ourselves."
" Between 1970 and 2015, CDC reports nearly 45.7 million legal induced abortions."
45.7 Million persons that could have been contributing to "Society"...... wasted !
I NEVER said anything about "Legal" or "Illegal".
Just noting the Needed (see seed above) "Population" count LOST !
When it comes to Population......"Millions"...is actually a bunch !
They obviously were not wanted pregnancies and so how well they would have contributed to society, one is not sure of. And considering you are talking about 45 years, that works out to about 1 million potential people a year. That is hardly what we are lagging behind in this current trend. (It predates 1970).
Exactly !
One of them could have come up with a cure for cancer for all we know. Even those that make it to "Life"....we don't know what they will do/contribute, but it is a "Body for taxing" anyway.
"And considering you are talking about 45 years, that works out to about 1 million potential people a year."
Stick 1 million more folks in your town and see what effect it has. We only have a bit over 300 million in this country. Every million helps.....wouldn't it ?
Or been a serial killer.
First of all, it's not 1 million in a town, but across the country. That is a drop in the bucket.
And a million unwanted babies is not a help to society. The fact that you seem to ignore is that we have on any given day, over half a million kids in foster care, most of them without forever homes. For most of those kids, this will not work out well.
If a few thousand Gun deaths all over the country is made to be a big deal, 1 million lives of available persons a year is NOT a drop in the bucket.....if you get where I'm coming from.
As for foster care children, they are alive and can work when they reach age. Ya never know what they will produce until they become "Workforce" worthy.
Or, Or, Or.…..EVERYTHING !
One gun death is too many. A gun death is taking away someone who is already LIVING.
"All Lives Matter" ?
Did you know a fetus is actually living ?
Seems Dead births aren't very good for peoples psyche !
A serial killer most likely since if they are unwanted, they aren't going to be raised in loving, nurturing homes.
So is a bacterium. What's your point?
No doubt many parent get emotional when they experience a stillborn. But what does that have to do with anything?
That's assuming they even enter the workforce.
Or become the next Hitler. Is that the kind of argument you want to make?
Most likely a negative effect.
No. Increasing the population would only eventually make things worse.
Yeah, to hel! with individual rights! Maybe we should establish a Handmaid's Tale type society now and save us the time later. Right?
That's not what he said. Parents are devastated when their child is stillborn.
Why do you lie?
That is not what I said. I explicitly stated many parents probably get emotion over such a situation.
My condolences.
Traffic is already bad enough, no thanks.
First, please use proper punctuation. And Secondly Gordy said the exact opposite.
Why is "Secondly" capitalized?
"So is a bacterium. What's your point?"
It's living.....Duh !
"No doubt many parent get emotional when they experience a stillborn. But what does that have to do with anything?"
See "It's Living" above ! (Facepalm face)
"That's assuming they even enter the workforce."
"Or become the next Hitler. Is that the kind of argument you want to make?"
ASSuming isn't a good thing.....unless you like ASSuming to make YOUR argument seem "Emotional" ! (Laughing Face)
"Most likely a negative effect."
"No. Increasing the population would only eventually make things worse."
LET ALL THE "ILLEGALS" in....They aren't hurting anything (population overload) huh ! (Rolling Eyes face)
"Yeah, to hel! with individual rights!"
Liberals work on banning what they don't like (guns) ….. right ? (Digging emoji)
And...so?
Again...so?
And yet, that's exactly what you did. I simply applied your tactic against you.
Red Herring.The topic Is not about immigration.
Strawman argument, especially since nothing has been banned.
Read it again. The article is all about the declining birthrate.
(FacePalm Face)…..Tripled !
Read your friggin comment again.....and then read this statement :
"Americans are having fewer and fewer babies, a new government report finds. In fact, we now aren’t making enough babies to replace ourselves."
What's the "Abortion Rate" per year again ? (rolling eyes Face)
Don't bother. He doesn't think abortion has ANYTHING to do with the birthrate!
Would 'self gratification' be counted as, not giving 'those little critters' a chance be a form of abortion?
I believe only a fool would or could believe something so silly.
Why did you ask?
Don't know. Asking. I am sure some of the christian taliban may have Scripture Issues with the 'seed from man' and its preciousness to the man/god relationship of the creation.
Why a fool? Are not sperm, potential life? Well, how far and how deep should the specter of life be sacrosanct?
Are these not legitimate issues worthy of honest and fair debate?
Bit to heavy, Tex?
No, not worthy of debate. Perhaps you can find someone who feels that way. Good luck.
Not at all.
But way too stupid and childish for me. You have fun, though!
I figured....but what the Hell !
I was bored ! (Shrugging Shoulders)
This is a good thing, overpopulation is the biggest problem and multiplies all other problems
I figured you would say that. I know how much you are concerned about overpopulation. Apparently, the human race is taking care of that on its own.
"Americans aren't reproducing enough to replace themselves?" No problem. Machines are being designed to do that for the Americans. Besides, it is difficult to accomplish 'certain things' when the eyes are glued to that little screen.
"Americans aren't making enough babies to replace ourselves"
My first thought after reading that was "Thank goodness..." and my next thought was "It's got to be due to all the jackoffs..."...
According to the stats a certain demographic seems to be laggards in the baby making department. Better get to humpin' there white folks...
I'm done. This baby making factory is closed
But you have kids. They can have babies ya know...You did explain to them how it works, right!!!
That might have been something that I left out in their education. I told them to use condoms and how birth control works but may have left out the technical parts. LOL!
My daughter will be 26 in a week or so and the boy just turned 24. They're still both quite young. I didn't have my first one until I was 31.
I had the girls at 34. One shot and instant family. No regrets.
But on the other hand, my daughter, who just got engaged at 24 said she will not wait as long as I did, since she studies autism, and age, both male and female makes a difference.
My daughter takes care of sick babies all day long since she is a NICU nurse. I think just taking care of those babies has helped her make a decision to either hold off or not have any at all.
I'm pretty certain my DIL doesn't want any children because she had a pretty bad childhood
I was told, ''go forth and populate''...I did and now have increased the population of both America and Australia. I'm considered a double patriot.
My daughter cannot carry a pregnancy. She is 30 now and showing no signs of worrying about her ticking clock. She doesn't particularity like children.
My son (26) is not a fan of children either, so he is not keen on reproducing either.
You are awesome!
I know, it's a job and I'm up to the challenge...
You did more than that! Your tribe is huge! And you are a great, great grand dad. and you are still not an old man. That is pretty amazing!
But I don't like babies! They poop and spit up and scream. They're blobs of stink and noise.
Exactly what my daughter says. She also says they are usually sticky. She is very particular with her appearance & all those things don't go with her outfit.
It's so funny, the older I get, the more I dislike children. I had 2 of my own, but I am not crazy about babies or little kids.
AaaWww come on. Babies aren't bad. You just have to cook them properly.
I never had any little ones. Just not in the cards. But I love my nieces and nephews! Why is't there an Aunt's Day?
I'm sure they're very tender, like veal.
Everyone asks me about being a grandmother & how I will miss out on so much.... I am with you - not particularly fond of babies & toddlers anymore.
Nobody bugs me about not being a grandmother. They know better
Pick any day you want and we'll call it Aunt's Day.
So how do you convey that attitude? Lessons, please.
You're familiar with the Evil Eye, right?
Try that a few times, but I've been getting sharp pains in my eye every time I do that.
I know the "evil eye".... I will give it a try (also do a protection spell to keep my own eyes safe).
There is an aunt and uncle day. It's
Neither am I. I like older kids. But my mom is mad about babies, so she is hoping to be around for my kids' children.
Thanks Perrie!
Are you bringing the cake?
I think I'm suffering from the "returns to you 3-fold" curse. I am constantly giving somebody the Evil Eye
Yea, that happens. I try to avoid it as much as possible, but sometimes.... ya just got to let them have it & pay the piper later.
This has been going on since the easy availability of birth control, which would be my generation. Prior to that, there where not too many other options. Larger families where very common.
You left out the technical parts!!!! chicken...LOLOLOLOL
Well there still fairly young so they have time to ''catch up'' in that baby making department.
They have books that explain that part....I taught them to read
we now aren’t making enough babies to replace ourselves.
Good, there too many damn people in the world now.
When I was single I did my best to reverse the trend. I have no idea how many children I have but every time I went past a schoolyard I threw a bunch of pennies over the fence.
Considering there are roughly 700,000 abortions a year in the US are we really not "fertile" enough or are we just killing too many?
Why should any woman be forced to continue a pregnancy to term against their wishes? Are you going to pay for the life costs of that child, as way as paying her for her time as a mother and for the loss of her rights because of your conservative views?
Your avatar hints that you are a libertarian but your argument is the opposite of personal freedom.
My question in no way suggests anything about personal freedom. It in no way suggests I would try to stop you from murdering your own child. that is your choice. It just so happens I don't agree with it. Do you agree with the new law in NY the lets someone kill a baby right before it takes it's first breath?
Could be a combination of both. One would think that with lower pregnancy rates there would be lower abortion rates, too.
Immaterial. No one should be forced to have a child if they do not want one.
How is that immaterial to the article?
WTF said they should???
It's immaterial because abortion isn't the issue or the focus of article.
Bull. Of Course it is material to the article because the article is speaking of Americans not producing enough kids to replace ourselves.
Why in hell WOULDN'T it be relevant????
Because silly goose, Its inconvenient to the narrative being pushed by the hive.
That's why.
Ah. I see!
Don't you think that childbirth rates, miscarriages, abortions, etc. would ALL be considered FACTORS in lower birth rates as well as education, changing societal roles, etc.?
But what do you really expect from anyone who thinks because something is MENTIONED as a POSSIBLE reason for low birthrates that means it is the ONLY thing we are talking about?
When minds are THAT closed, usually there is no getting through to them.
True, one is required to put all bias and partisanship aside to truly think "clearly" about topics like this.
That is "clearly" an impossible task for some to accomplish.
When you mention the word abortion to some, they automatically get all defensive and think we are trying to deny someone form getting one.
It's because some of us recognize how badly conservatives want to claim abortion is a "national emergency" so they can try to ban it, then we're just one conservative Republican fascist law away from the Handmaids Tale.
Please do tell us where a bunch of Republicans have tried to claim abortion is a national emergency and tried to ban it.
Comments like yours kind of proves the point I made.
You are aware of what the topic is, right?
Do you think abortion has played any role in declining birthrates?
Here's what the articles says about it: "...a combination of several factors, including changing economics, delays in childbirth by women pursuing jobs and education, the greater availability of contraception, and a decline in teen pregnancies."
Abortion is not mentioned nor seems to be factored in. But the original comment I responded to seems to focus specifically on abortion as a cause.
Okay, abortions have ZERO effect on birthrates.
LMFAO
Where do you GET this stuff from???????
Hey Gordy,
In the past you would not say when you thought is should be illegal to abort. In fact if I remember correctly you said you agreed with whatever the law was although you didnt seem to know what those laws were. Now that the rest of your ilk thinks it is OK to kill a baby right up untill it takes it's first breath and have made it law, has it given you the balls to form an opinion? Does your opine change with the laws of your ilk?
I never said it should be illegal to abort.
I am familiar with the laws and I agree with the current law as a reasonable compromise between both opposing sides on the matter.
Who says that exactly?
I've always made my opinions known.
See previous statement. I cannot speak for anyone else.
that is a very funny, and long winded way to say less obamacare = higher population growth.
less access to family reduction services resulted in higher birth rates?
im shocked I tell ya... just shocked.
This thing is still here?
So America doesn't have enough babies to replenish itself...……...considering the way things are...………...this is a bad thing?
snorkle
No immigration either, right?
Could be. The US economy (Wall Street) relies upon a steady supply of rabid consumers, cheap labor and cannon fodder.
Some economists and/or capitalists have coined the term "Demographic Winter" to try scare people about the possible adverse impacts of not producing enough wage slaves to replace and support them. Having children for the purpose of supporting the parents is slavery and inhumane.
It is not just America that is experiencing less than replacement birth rate. It is common throughout industrialized nations. In the last decade, Italy, Spain and Russia have tried programs that paid women to have more babies. In the US, our rabid capitalists rely on legal and illegal immigration and trying to deny poor women access to birth control by closing Planned Parenthood clinics.
If you are interested in some of the propaganda spread by the go forth and multiply till you drop capitalists, then I suggest researching "Demographic Winter".
Below is a video released about "Demographic Winter". It has been years since I watched it, but I believe it uses Christian religion dogma as justification for forcing men and women to marry and reproduce as an obligation to society.