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NBC's Brokaw apologizes for saying Hispanics should 'work harder at assimilation'

  

Category:  News & Politics

Via:  johnrussell  •  5 years ago  •  106 comments

NBC's Brokaw apologizes for saying Hispanics should 'work harder at assimilation'
"From my days reporting on [Cesar Chavez] to documenting the many contributions of hispanics in all parts of our culture ... [I've] worked hard to knock down false stereo types," Brokaw wrote. "In my final comment in [Meet the Press, I] said ALL sides hv to work harder."

S E E D E D   C O N T E N T



NBC's Brokaw apologizes for saying Hispanics should 'work harder at assimilation'


JANUARY 27, 2019

BBPMroM.img?h=169&w=300&m=6&q=60&o=f&l=f
Tom Brokaw wearing a suit and tie: NBC's Brokaw apologizes for saying Hispanics should 'work harder at assimilation'

NBC's Tom Brokaw on Sunday apologized for saying earlier in the day that Hispanics should "work harder at assimilation" during a conversation about xenophobia in the U.S.

Brokaw tweeted his apology after he was criticized by some lawmakers and activists over his comments, which Rep. Joaquin Castro (D-Texas) called "ignorant."

"[I] feel terrible a part of my comments on Hispanics offended some members of that proud culture," Brokaw tweeted.

Brokaw's apology came in a series of disjointed tweets throughout the day.

"From my days reporting on [Cesar Chavez] to documenting the many contributions of hispanics in all parts of our culture ... [I've] worked hard to knock down false stereo types," Brokaw wrote. "In my final comment in [Meet the Press, I] said ALL sides hv to work harder."


i feel terrible a part of my comments on Hispanics offended some members of that proud culture


from my days reporting on cesar chavez to documenting the many contributions of hispanics in all parts of our culture
- Tom Brokaw (@tombrokaw) January 27, 2019


i've worked hard to knock down false stereo types. in my final comment in Meet i said ALL sides hv to work harder
- Tom Brokaw (@tombrokaw) January 27, 2019

"[I] am sorry, truly sorry, my comments were offensive to many," Brokaw wrote later. "[T]he great enduring [A]merican tradition of diversity is to be celebrated and cherished."


my twitter acct failed me at the worst time.

i am sorry, truly sorry, my comments were offensive to

many. the great enduring american tradition of diversity is to be celebrated and cherished. yamiche, thank u for your comments.

let's go forward together.

- Tom Brokaw (@tombrokaw) January 28, 2019


finally, i am sorry - i never intended to disparage any segment of our rich, diverse society which defines who we are.
- Tom Brokaw (@tombrokaw) January 28, 2019

Brokaw is a veteran journalist best known for having hosted all three of NBC's major news shows: "The Today Show," "NBC Nightly News," and "Meet the Press."

He was appearing as a guest on "Meet the Press" when the topic of immigration came up.

"A lot of this, we don't want to talk about," Brokaw said. "But the fact is, on the Republican side, a lot of people see the rise of an extraordinary, important, new constituent in American politics, Hispanics, who will come here and all be Democrats."

"Also, I hear, when I push people a little harder, 'Well, I don't know whether I want brown grandbabies,'" Brokaw added without elaborating. "I mean, that's also a part of it."


Brokaw: "The Hispanics should be working harder on assimilation." pic.twitter.com/D4QGQhSRZh
- Josh Marshall (@joshtpm) January 27, 2019

"It's the intermarriage that is going on and the cultures that are conflicting with each other," Brokaw said. "I also happen to believe that the Hispanics should work harder at assimilation. That's one of the things I've been saying for a long time."

"You know, they ought not to be just codified in their communities but make sure that all their kids are learning to speak English, and that they feel comfortable in the communities," Brokaw concluded. "And that's going to take outreach on both sides, frankly."

"PBS NewsHour" White House correspondent Yamiche Alcindor, who also appeared on the panel, responded by telling Brokaw that his sentiment was "troubling."

"I would just say that we also need to adjust what we think of as America," Alcindor said. "You're talking about assimilation. I grew up in Miami, where people speak Spanish, but their kids speak English. And the idea that we think Americans can only speak English, as if Spanish and other languages wasn't always part of America, is, in some ways, troubling."


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JohnRussell
Professor Principal
1  seeder  JohnRussell    5 years ago

I had a feeling that comment was going to come back to bite Brokaw. I think he has a point though. People who want to live in America permanently should make an honest effort to become American. 

 
 
 
Dulay
Professor Expert
1.1  Dulay  replied to  JohnRussell @1    5 years ago
People who want to live in America permanently should make an honest effort to become American. 

WTF does that MEAN John? 

There are dozens of different Americas in the US alone. Hell, there are different Americas in every state. There are even different Americas within large cites. Chicago is a perfect example. 

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
1.1.1  seeder  JohnRussell  replied to  Dulay @1.1    5 years ago

There are ethnic cultures, that are united in one sense by their allegiance to the United States. I don't see anything wrong with that as an overriding principle. It hardly precludes ethnic groups from having their own cultural activities here.

 
 
 
Dulay
Professor Expert
1.1.2  Dulay  replied to  JohnRussell @1.1.1    5 years ago

Didn't answer my question John.

Most of the SW is steeped in Mexican culture. 

Florida Cuban.

Louisiana French/Creole/AA.

In fact, AA culture in much the deep south.

So each region, state, city, town is an America all it's own and when an immigrant moves their, they absorb some of that, while adding something of their own. 

"They' are us and it would be impossible to extricate their cultures from what is America. 

There probably isn't an American who hasn't eaten a taco or Chinese food. 

Octoberfest in Milwaukee looks like a meeting of the UN. 

Everyone is Irish in Chicago on St. Patrick's Day. 

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
1.1.3  seeder  JohnRussell  replied to  Dulay @1.1.2    5 years ago

I'm really not sure what your point is. And I am not sure we are disagreeing.

 
 
 
It Is ME
Masters Guide
1.1.4  It Is ME  replied to  Dulay @1.1.2    5 years ago

It doesn't matter what "Culture" one is...…. "Steeped" in. "American is "American" !

If one is sooooo "Steeped" in their former "Culture" that they think this country should "Change" to meet their "Culture" and it's "Needs", they should have stayed where they came from ! That "Culture" was already there.

Don't come here fleeing what you didn't like in the first place, then tell the country you fled to that it MUST "kowtow" to the same thing you just fled from !

What a "STUPID" idea they bring us !

 
 
 
Dulay
Professor Expert
1.1.5  Dulay  replied to  It Is ME @1.1.4    5 years ago
It doesn't matter what "Culture" one is...…. "Steeped" in. "American is "American" !

If one is sooooo "Steeped" in their former "Culture" that they think this country should "Change" to meet their "Culture" and it's "Needs", they should have stayed where they came from ! That "Culture" was already there.

Don't come here fleeing what you didn't like in the first place, then tell the country you fled to that it MUST "kowtow" to the same thing you just fled from !

What a "STUPID" idea they bring us !

What is STUPID is that some actually think that to be 'American' one must assimilate with European culture.

I'm pretty fucking sure that there was 'culture' in the US long before any European set foot here. Members with Indigenous heritage can speak to that better than I. 

Large parts of those existing cultures were assimilated by the Europeans, especially foodstuffs like corn, squash, potatoes and tomatoes. Many think potatoes are Irish and tomatoes are Italian. 

Tobacco was assimilated into every culture across the globe. 

If not for the FACT that Europeans 'assimilated' into the 'culture' that existed; how they hunted, how they planted, what plants they used for medicine; most would not have survived. 

 
 
 
Dulay
Professor Expert
1.1.6  Dulay  replied to  JohnRussell @1.1.3    5 years ago

My point was that we ALL have our own definition of what it MEANS to be 'American'. 

 
 
 
It Is ME
Masters Guide
1.1.7  It Is ME  replied to  Dulay @1.1.5    5 years ago
What is STUPID is that some actually think that to be 'American' one must assimilate with European culture.

Your Opinionated definition of "What is American"....right ? 

"Don't come here fleeing what you didn't like in the first place, then tell the country you fled to that it MUST "kowtow" to the same thing you just fled from" …...says nothing about Food stuffs, Hunting, Tobacco, potato/tomato,  etc...…

It's all about the "Attitude" when one "Flee's" here ! 

 
 
 
It Is ME
Masters Guide
1.1.9  It Is ME  replied to  XDm9mm @1.1.8    5 years ago
the refugees escaping from the Peoples Republic of California, and then trying to institute the same shit they ran from here in Texas.

So I've read !

Maybe it's on Purpose to expand the Nuttery ?

 
 
 
321steve - realistically thinkin or Duu
Sophomore Guide
1.1.10  321steve - realistically thinkin or Duu   replied to  XDm9mm @1.1.8    5 years ago

What I dont understand is WTF anyone would move to texas to begin with  ? 

 
 
 
Dulay
Professor Expert
1.1.11  Dulay  replied to  It Is ME @1.1.7    5 years ago
Your Opinionated definition of "What is American"....right ? 

I don't know who you're quoting but it isn't me. 

…...says nothing about Food stuffs, Hunting, Tobacco, potato/tomato, etc...…

Never said it did.

It's all about the "Attitude" when one "Flee's" here !

Actually, those fleeing HERE are doing so from fear. 

 
 
 
It Is ME
Masters Guide
1.1.13  It Is ME  replied to  Dulay @1.1.11    5 years ago
Actually, those fleeing HERE are doing so from fear. 

And then want what they fled from !

"Never said it did."

That was the entire concept in your comments !

Food Stuffs !

 
 
 
Dulay
Professor Expert
1.1.14  Dulay  replied to  XDm9mm @1.1.12    5 years ago
Great tax structure, great people, absolutely fantastic brisket, 

Tax structure that starves services

Great people, 40% of which are Hispanic/Latino

Absolutely fantastic brisket-originated in the West Indies. 

and more.

Only 22% of grade school children master all subjects, only 38% are college ready at graduation, according to the Texas EPA the environment SUCKS and Texas has the highest rate of uninsured, especially uninsured children. Sounds great.../s

Ok..   we do suffer from a gross over abundance of Mexican restaurants and a severe lack of other types, at least in the San Antonio area.

Supply and demand. I noticed that there were no Honduran restaurants. Been craving pupusas. 

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
1.1.15  Texan1211  replied to  XDm9mm @1.1.12    5 years ago

Please, no need to advertise for Texas. The less people coming here, the better, I say. 

Do we really want all of Texas to resemble Austin?

 
 
 
Jack_TX
Professor Quiet
1.1.16  Jack_TX  replied to  Dulay @1.1    5 years ago
WTF does that MEAN John? 

Learning to speak English.  Learning to operate in the American financial system.  Learning how to raise successful American kids.  The list is lengthy.

 
 
 
Jack_TX
Professor Quiet
1.1.17  Jack_TX  replied to  XDm9mm @1.1.8    5 years ago
those of us in Texas deal with that continually with the refugees escaping from the Peoples Republic of California, and then trying to institute the same shit they ran from here in Texas.

You are not wrong.

 
 
 
Dulay
Professor Expert
1.1.18  Dulay  replied to  Jack_TX @1.1.16    5 years ago
The list is lengthy.

Doesn't look like it to me. 

 
 
 
Dulay
Professor Expert
1.1.19  Dulay  replied to  It Is ME @1.1.13    5 years ago
That was the entire concept in your comments !

Nuance isn't your forte I see...

 
 
 
321steve - realistically thinkin or Duu
Sophomore Guide
1.1.20  321steve - realistically thinkin or Duu   replied to  XDm9mm @1.1.12    5 years ago

My sister and her husband traveled all over texas as he started up wendy's restaurants years ago, she didn't seem too much sold on texas.

I visited her for a week in san angelo, I thought it was ok  But, I was a young guy when I was there 35 years ago, good college night life town !  

But they also had to spend about a year in brownsville which my sister referred to as the anus of America. 

At least there were a couple of towns though she did like, San Antonio I think was one she liked best. 

Then I had to drive across texas in August a few years ago and I'd had enough of texas. LOL 

 
 
 
Sparty On
Professor Principal
1.1.21  Sparty On  replied to  321steve - realistically thinkin or Duu @1.1.10    5 years ago

Not to worry, they likely wouldn't want you there anyway.

Well maybe the city Austin would ..... but that's about it.

 
 
 
321steve - realistically thinkin or Duu
Sophomore Guide
1.1.22  321steve - realistically thinkin or Duu   replied to  Sparty On @1.1.21    5 years ago
Not to worry, they likely wouldn't want you there anyway.

LOL Then they would be missing out. 

 
 
 
Jack_TX
Professor Quiet
1.1.23  Jack_TX  replied to  Dulay @1.1.18    5 years ago
Doesn't look like it to me. 

The list could be 200,000 items and you would still whine about how offensive it is.

But you seem to believe that "assimilation" somehow means giving up tacos, so I'm not sure many people will pay attention.

 
 
 
Dulay
Professor Expert
1.1.24  Dulay  replied to  Jack_TX @1.1.23    5 years ago
The list could be 200,000 items and you would still whine about how offensive it is.

I said it was offensive? Where? 

But you seem to believe that "assimilation" somehow means giving up tacos, so I'm not sure many people will pay attention.

Nuance isn't your forte I see. 

 
 
 
Jack_TX
Professor Quiet
1.1.25  Jack_TX  replied to  Dulay @1.1.24    5 years ago
I said it was offensive?

You are attacking the idea that Brokaw's comments are not offensive.

Nuance isn't your forte I see. 

Is this your new "go-to" statement when your other statements have been identified as indefensible?

 
 
 
Dulay
Professor Expert
1.1.26  Dulay  replied to  Jack_TX @1.1.25    5 years ago
You are attacking the idea that Brokaw's comments are not offensive.

I am? When? Link the comment...

Is this your new "go-to" statement when your other statements have been identified as indefensible?

What am I supposed to be defending Jack? You haven't made a cogent point yet. You've merely made unfounded accusations based on your own misinterpretations of my comments. 

You claimed I said your comment was offensive yet can't or won't say WHERE.

You claim that I attacked the idea that Brokaw's comments are not offensive. I haven't even mentioned Brokaw. I'll wait for you to support you allegation but I won't be holding my breath. 

 
 
 
Buzz of the Orient
Professor Expert
1.1.27  Buzz of the Orient  replied to  JohnRussell @1.1.1    5 years ago
"There are ethnic cultures, that are united in one sense by their allegiance to the United States. I don't see anything wrong with that as an overriding principle. It hardly precludes ethnic groups from having their own cultural activities here."

I agree with you on that.  In Toronto we loved going to the ethnic festivals on the weekends when the streets would be turned into pedestrian malls in Greek Town, or in Little Italy, or in Chinatown for those wonderful events.  What bothers me is when an ethnic group tries to change the American (or Canadian) culture to suit themselves and their specific culture and beliefs.   

 
 
 
Jack_TX
Professor Quiet
1.1.28  Jack_TX  replied to  Dulay @1.1.26    5 years ago
I am? When? Link the comment...

You completely jumped John's ass over agreeing with Brokaw.

You don't remember 

WTF does that MEAN John? 

I know, right?  How dare John step outside the approved liberal script, think for himself and fail to be outraged.   

You then went on with more comments where you talk almost exclusively of food....as if "culture" is simply what people eat.  

There probably isn't an American who hasn't eaten a taco or Chinese food.

Like that has anything to do with people coming here and not learning English, working on a fake SS# or driving around uninsured.

 
 
 
Sparty On
Professor Principal
1.1.29  Sparty On  replied to  321steve - realistically thinkin or Duu @1.1.22    5 years ago

Very probable .... see how nicely that works out for everyone?

jrSmiley_9_smiley_image.gif

 
 
 
321steve - realistically thinkin or Duu
Sophomore Guide
1.1.30  321steve - realistically thinkin or Duu   replied to  Sparty On @1.1.29    5 years ago
see how nicely that works out for everyone?

I sure do, I dont have to be there and the people of texas dont have to witness my dislike of the state. 

win win 

 
 
 
Sparty On
Professor Principal
1.1.31  Sparty On  replied to  321steve - realistically thinkin or Duu @1.1.30    5 years ago

Yep, spot on.   Thats how most folks feel about such things.

Then you have the crazy moon-bat minority on both sides.   Intent on telling everyone else how they should live.

Like the dog walker who doesn't clean up the dog shit his dog just dropped in your yard.

Sanctimonious pricks ..... one and all.

 
 
 
321steve - realistically thinkin or Duu
Sophomore Guide
1.1.32  321steve - realistically thinkin or Duu   replied to  Sparty On @1.1.31    5 years ago
the dog walker who doesn't clean up the dog shit his dog just dropped in your yard.

Then Someone should tell the asshole to pick up his own crap. 

Then you have the crazy moon-bat minority on both sides.   Intent on telling everyone else how they should live.

They've been there my whole life. I see that as Their problem. I just ignore em... and move on doing my own thing.  

 
 
 
Sparty On
Professor Principal
1.1.33  Sparty On  replied to  321steve - realistically thinkin or Duu @1.1.32    5 years ago
Then Someone should tell the asshole to pick up his own crap. 

Hmmmmmm ..... never thought of that ......... jrSmiley_9_smiley_image.gif

 
 
 
321steve - realistically thinkin or Duu
Sophomore Guide
1.1.34  321steve - realistically thinkin or Duu   replied to  Sparty On @1.1.33    5 years ago
Then Someone should tell the asshole to pick up his own crap. 
Hmmmmmm ..... never thought of that ...

One of the nice things about nt we get others ideas on solving bad situations...

LOL 

 
 
 
96WS6
Junior Quiet
1.1.35  96WS6  replied to  Dulay @1.1    5 years ago

Learning English is part of assimilation.  Every problem we see in Europe is due to migrants who will not assimilate and instead seek to transform the country that was gracious enough to accept them. It boggles my mind so many on the left encourage this when the end result is already staring them in the face.

 
 
 
Jack_TX
Professor Quiet
1.1.36  Jack_TX  replied to  96WS6 @1.1.35    5 years ago
It boggles my mind

Surely it doesn't surprise you at this point.

 
 
 
Dulay
Professor Expert
1.1.37  Dulay  replied to  Jack_TX @1.1.28    5 years ago
You completely jumped John's ass over agreeing with Brokaw. 'WTF does that MEAN John?' 

Is that supposed to be the comment where I 'attacked the idea that Brokaw's comments are not offensive' Jack? My comment wasn't about Brokaw's comment, it was about John's. READ MORE CAREFULLY. 

Like that has anything to do with people coming here and not learning English,

How long would you give them to learn to speak English? Oh and just out of curiosity, how is English uniquely American? 

working on a fake SS#

If the GOP had the balls to make E-verify mandatory, that wouldn't be an issue. Better yet , FIX the fucked up immigration laws. 

or driving around uninsured.

They are merely assimilating with about a quarter of the rest of the driving population in the US. 

BTFW, if Mexicans and Central Americans come to the us and stay in the SW, exactly what would be  'uniquely American' in that region for them to assimilate? 

 
 
 
Dulay
Professor Expert
1.1.38  Dulay  replied to  96WS6 @1.1.35    5 years ago
Learning English is part of assimilation. 
Every problem we see in Europe is due to migrants who will not assimilate and instead seek to transform the country that was gracious enough to accept them.

You're kidding right? Brexit has NOTHING to do with migrants not assimilating. Sheesh. 

It boggles my mind so many on the left encourage this when the end result is already staring them in the face.

What is that 96. Paint me a picture...

 
 
 
Jack_TX
Professor Quiet
1.1.39  Jack_TX  replied to  Dulay @1.1.37    5 years ago
Is that supposed to be the comment where I 'attacked the idea that Brokaw's comments are not offensive' Jack? My comment wasn't about Brokaw's comment, it was about John's. READ MORE CAREFULLY. 

It was about John's support for Brokaw's.   To which you immediately went in with "WTF".

How long would you give them to learn to speak English?

That's up to them.  I would just stop accommodating other languages.  You don't find Honduran government forms in English.

Oh and just out of curiosity, how is English uniquely American? 

It's not.  Why would that matter?  

If the GOP had the balls to make E-verify mandatory,

*eyeroll*   Riiiiiight.  Absolutely everything is the GOP's fault.  I'm sure that includes the polar vortex.

that wouldn't be an issue. Better yet , FIX the fucked up immigration laws. 

I'll agree there.  But I don't see it happening.

They are merely assimilating with about a quarter of the rest of the driving population in the US. 

Nationwide it's about 15%.  I'm not sure that's an excuse for them to break the law.  That's not how one "assimilates".

BTFW, if Mexicans and Central Americans come to the us and stay in the SW, exactly what would be  'uniquely American' in that region for them to assimilate? 

I'm not sure how this is difficult for you, other than you seem to define "assimilation" as becoming a fat midwestern suburbanite cheeseburger vacuum. 

There are certain things that immigrants to any country are expected to do.  We're talking about fundamental things that are integral to participating in the new society they've chosen.  Things like learning and following local laws or learning the local language.  Participating in the local community, making local friends, paying taxes, supporting their kids in school, getting jobs, learning to use the local healthcare system and actually paying their own way so they are not a burden on the society they're trying to join.  

It does not mean they need to give up tacos or tapas or toad in the hole.  How stupid is that?

We have a lot of immigrants that do those things.  We also have a lot that don't. 

When I ask somebody "quantos anos en Los Estados Unidos" and the answer is "quince"....I'm sorry, but how do you not fucking speak English?  Why do we have three teachers teaching your kid while mine is in a class of 39?  Why am I paying more for healthcare so you can get it for free while you send all your cash back to Mexico?  Make an effort or fuck off back to where you came from.  

 
 
 
Dulay
Professor Expert
1.1.40  Dulay  replied to  Jack_TX @1.1.39    5 years ago
We're talking about fundamental things that are integral to participating in the new society they've chosen.

Do you have any evidence that hasn't happened? Other than speaking fluent English [which I would argue that a good percentage of native born Americans fail to do] immigrants that come here pay taxes, work, become a part of their communities, know how to go to a doctor, hospital or clinic. The VAST majority, after being here for a year or so, are self sustaining and thrive. 

I'm sorry, but how do you not fucking speak English?

It's not that they can't understand and speak English, it's just not fluently.

Much of it has to do with working and living with people that don't speak English. When I was in grade school in Chicago, many of my friends parents spoke Polish, Yiddish, Italian or Spanish. Most of them had been in the US for decades. Their kids ALL spoke both.

Why do we have three teachers teaching your kid while mine is in a class of 39?

I have no idea what you're talking about. I have known may Bilingual teachers, one of whom my mother, who had classrooms with 30 kids speaking 10 different languages. 

Why am I paying more for healthcare so you can get it for free while you send all your cash back to Mexico?

Sending money 'back home' is cultural. No matter how small the amount. My grandfather sent money 'back home' to the PI until the day he died. 

Make an effort or fuck off back to where you came from.

I don't think that you can make a cogent argument that the immigrants that live and work here aren't making an effort. In fact, it's their effort that makes them so valuable to our economy. 

 
 
 
Jack_TX
Professor Quiet
1.1.41  Jack_TX  replied to  Dulay @1.1.40    5 years ago
Do you have any evidence that hasn't happened?

You're kidding, right?  

Other than speaking fluent English [which I would argue that a good percentage of native born Americans fail to do]

They speak fluent English.  It may not be grammatically correct, but they can communicate.

immigrants that come here pay taxes, work, become a part of their communities, know how to go to a doctor, hospital or clinic. The VAST majority, after being here for a year or so, are self sustaining and thrive. 

As I said, some immigrants assimilate well.  They work at it.  Large numbers do not. 

It's not that they can't understand and speak English, it's just not fluently.

You don't live in Texas, Arizona or Southern California, do you?

Much of it has to do with working and living with people that don't speak English.

Yes.  That's not a valid excuse, BTW.

When I was in grade school in Chicago, many of my friends parents spoke Polish, Yiddish, Italian or Spanish. Most of them had been in the US for decades. Their kids ALL spoke both.

If they've been here for decades, they should have learned English.  

I have no idea what you're talking about.

I know.  

In places where non-English speaking immigrants come in massive numbers....like Texas.... they flood schools who are ill-prepared to deal with the legal requirements to educate them in their own language.  Schools are judged and regulated on how well these kids do on standardized tests, their graduation rates, and their drop-out rates.  It's not uncommon to have 10 ESOL kids in a class with 2-3 teachers, or to have bilingual personnel following them to regular classes to translate.  Meanwhile, Anglo kids and especially advanced kids are corralled into classes with more kids than desks.  It's worth noting that tons of those kids are immigrants, too.  But they have assimilated.  And they didn't even have to give up curry.

I have known may Bilingual teachers, one of whom my mother, who had classrooms with 30 kids speaking 10 different languages. 

You can't get away with that in Texas in 2019.

Sending money 'back home' is cultural. No matter how small the amount. My grandfather sent money 'back home' to the PI until the day he died. 

Did he pay his own way while he was here?  Or did he get free healthcare at an ER and then never pay the bill?

I don't think that you can make a cogent argument that the immigrants that live and work here aren't making an effort. In fact, it's their effort that makes them so valuable to our economy. 

I. Live. In. Texas.   I meet immigrants every day.  I employ several.  I met three tonight at the gym.  I have a VERY broad sample from which to draw conclusions.

Some of them come here with the intention of becoming Americans, and I welcome them heartily.  Some of them come here with the sole intention of milking our economy, circumventing our laws, siphoning off as much money as they can while they can, and funneling it out of the country.  We don't need them.  They don't help us.  They have no intention of assimilating.  They don't give a shit about us or our country.  They are NOT helping our economy.

 
 
 
Dulay
Professor Expert
1.1.42  Dulay  replied to  Jack_TX @1.1.41    5 years ago
You're kidding, right?

You're deflecting right? 

They speak fluent English. It may not be grammatically correct, but they can communicate.

You obviously have a mistaken understanding of the definition of fluent. 

Large numbers do not.

How large? What percentage? Link? 

You don't live in Texas, Arizona or Southern California, do you?

Relevance? 

I have lived in SoCal.

I worked for decades with Spanish speaking co-workers. Have you? 

It's not uncommon to have 10 ESOL kids in a class with 2-3 teachers, or to have bilingual personnel following them to regular classes to translate.

Again, link? TEA has a very good searchable data base at your disposal. 

Meanwhile, Anglo kids and especially advanced kids are corralled into classes with more kids than desks.

Then I suggest that residents of Texas raise a stink about it. After all, local school boards control taxation, teacher ratio and spending right? It's up to them to provide funding so that schools can give 'Anglos' the education they deserve right? 

You can't get away with that in Texas in 2019.

So your posit is that only Anglo and advanced students have large classes? 

Did he pay his own way while he was here? 

At first, NO. 

Or did he get free healthcare at an ER and then never pay the bill?

He told me that they didn't report injuries for fear of being fired. On of the guys in the boarding house was good at patching them up. 

Some of them come here with the sole intention of milking our economy, circumventing our laws, siphoning off as much money as they can while they can, and funneling it out of the country.

True and it seems that you are intent on basing our nation policy solely based on their actions rather than on the actions of the immigrants that you employ. Why? 

 
 
 
Sparty On
Professor Principal
1.1.43  Sparty On  replied to  Jack_TX @1.1.41    5 years ago
Some of them come here with the intention of becoming Americans, and I welcome them heartily.  Some of them come here with the sole intention of milking our economy, circumventing our laws, siphoning off as much money as they can while they can, and funneling it out of the country.  We don't need them.  They don't help us.  They have no intention of assimilating.  They don't give a shit about us or our country.  They are NOT helping our economy.

Spot on Jack.

Unfortunately many are just too obtuse to see it for what it is.   Many do so willfully.

It's a damn egregious attitude to take.    Egregious as hell.

 
 
 
Jack_TX
Professor Quiet
1.1.44  Jack_TX  replied to  Dulay @1.1.42    5 years ago
How large? What percentage? Link? 

You want documentation on undocumented people.  Riiiiiiight.  Because if it isn't on leftist approved blog on the internet, it must not be happening.   I believe that's what we call "denial". 

Relevance?

You obviously lack personal experience with the situation.  Your views could ONLY come from lack of personal familiarity with the situation.

I worked for decades with Spanish speaking co-workers. Have you? 

Yes.  And the fact that you seem to think that's somehow relevant is a great example of this whole "lack of familiarity" thing.

Then I suggest that residents of Texas raise a stink about it.

*facepalm*  What an idea.  We hadn't thought of that.  You know....I think people are fed up enough that they might even vote for somebody like a Yankee asshole real estate developer with stupid hair if they thought there was a chance he might do something about it.

After all, local school boards control taxation, teacher ratio and spending right?

No.  Federal laws govern what services must be provided to non-English speakers.  Education funds are controlled by state governments as well as federal guidelines.  In many states property taxes are capped, so even if a local district wants to raise them, they can't.

Out of curiosity, have you ever heard the term "unfunded mandate"?

It's up to them to provide funding so that schools can give 'Anglos' the education they deserve right? 

Do Anglos not deserve the same educational resources as Hispanic students?  Do American citizens not deserve the same resources as immigrant students, legal or otherwise?  Do you deserve a chair in your math class simply because you don't speak English?  

I personally taught a class with 38 enrolled students and 30 desks in the room (we couldn't fit any more than that).  Across the hall the ESOL room had 5 kids and 2 certified teachers.   Federal guidelines.

So your posit is that only Anglo and advanced students have large classes?

No.  Resources ...which are finite.... are diverted from standard educational programs to comply with federal laws that require special attention to non-English speakers.   Read more about that here:

Most states have laws that require public schools to achieve certain targets on state standardized testing.  These targets are also measured by race and income level.  So a school with a high percentage of students passing tests can still be declared unacceptable if minority students are not passing at high enough levels.  This can cause the school to lose funding, and if it persists long enough some states will take over the school district in question.

Kids in advanced classes are generally not in danger of failing the minimum skills tests, and they don't tend to have behavior problems.  So administrators pull resources from those kids and move them to address low performing students.

He told me that they didn't report injuries for fear of being fired. On of the guys in the boarding house was good at patching them up.

Exactly my point.  Some people immigrate to America and do their very best to support society instead of drain it.  We need more of those.

True and it seems that you are intent on basing our nation policy solely based on their actions rather than on the actions of the immigrants that you employ. Why? 

Not at all.  That's the popular liberal misconception/mischaracterization of anybody who talks about illegal immigration as a problem. 

You can't live in Texas without Mexicans being part of your life, nor would you want to.  But if I retire to Costa Rica or Mexico or France or Italy, it is my responsibility to learn the language and follow the local customs.

IMO, we need to address both sides of the problem.  It needs to be much easier to immigrate legally, and it needs to be much tougher to immigrate illegally.  Most conservatives I know feel exactly that way.  The problem is that our welfare systems are too easy to exploit and our immigration systems were out of date in 1970.  But acknowledging that brings cries of "racist" from entitled white northern liberals who never see the problems first hand.

 

 
 
 
Dulay
Professor Expert
1.1.45  Dulay  replied to  Jack_TX @1.1.44    5 years ago
You want documentation on undocumented people.  Riiiiiiight. 

No, I want you to support your assertion. That's how this shit works. If it's just your opinion, say so. 

Because if it isn't on leftist approved blog on the internet, it must not be happening. 

Why, did you base your assertion on information from a 'rightist' approved blog? 

 I believe that's what we call "denial". 

I believe that is what is called deflection. 

Yes. And the fact that you seem to think that's somehow relevant is a great example of this whole "lack of familiarity" thing.

How is familiarity an example of your 'lack of familiarity' thing? 

Do Anglos not deserve the same educational resources as Hispanic students?

Based on YOUR comments, it doesn't seem that Texas school boards think so. 

Federal guidelines.

Link? 

No. Resources ...which are finite.... are diverted from standard educational programs to comply with federal laws that require special attention to non-English speakers. Read more about that here:

Resources are finite and based on decisions made by LOCAL school boards and the state of Texas. The citizens of Texas KNOW that school funding is 'Byzantine' needs to be modernized yet haven't taken the actions needed to get it done.  

You link states that the 'federal guidelines' you speak of have been in use since 1974. Are you saying that Texas can't figure shit out after 45 years? 

I personally taught a class with 38 enrolled students and 30 desks in the room (we couldn't fit any more than that). Across the hall the ESOL room had 5 kids and 2 certified teachers. Federal guidelines.

Your link also seems to say that the 'program' that your school district has implemented is in violation: 

Avoiding Unnecessary Segregation of EL Students  School districts generally may not segregate students on the basis of national origin or EL status. Although certain EL programs may be designed to require that EL students receive separate instruction for a limited portion of the day or period of time, school districts and states are expected to carry out their chosen program in the least segregative manner consistent with achieving the program’s stated educational goals.

This can cause the school to lose funding, and if it persists long enough some states will take over the school district in question.

Are you claiming that the Federal Government or Texas is denying public schools funding? LINK!

Based on TEA data, only about 25% of grade school students master all subjects and only about 38% of graduates are college ready. Are you blaming those stats on the 18% of ESL students? 

Exactly my point. Some people immigrate to America and do their very best to support society instead of drain it. We need more of those.

You missed MY point entirely. My grandfather was afraid to be FIRED if he reported an injury. Reporting an injury and getting proper medical attention isn't a 'drain on society. Even today, most companies mandate that employees report and document injuries but EVERYONE knows better. This is especially true if the injury happened because of employer negligence. They suck it up and keep working or take time off [unpaid] until they can work again. I have made many a 'donation' to guys that got hurt at work. The company I worked for didn't even offer to pay for stiches or clinic bills. Once they did buy a bus ticket to AZ for a guy who broke his leg. They didn't pay the doctor bill though...

It needs to be much easier to immigrate legally, and it needs to be much tougher to immigrate illegally.

Yet when proposals get even close, the far right squelch them. It's happened over and over again for a couple of decades. 

Most conservatives I know feel exactly that way.

Then WHY is 'chain migration' and 'voucher' migration such a big issue all of a sudden? And why is it that conservatives refuse to take yes for an answer when common sense compromises are proposed? Hell, we got REALLY close with the Border Security, Economic Opportunity, and Immigration Modernization Act of 2013, which passed the Senate on a bipartisan vote. The GOP House refused to even to take it up in committee. 

The kabuki theatre act by Trump right now, demanding the Dems negotiate, reopening the government for three weeks and then saying that it's a waste of time, tells me that conservatives, at least as represented by Trump, aren't serious about finding solutions for this issue at all...

 
 
 
Jack_TX
Professor Quiet
1.1.46  Jack_TX  replied to  Dulay @1.1.45    5 years ago
How is familiarity an example of your 'lack of familiarity' thing? 

You believe your situation gives you familiarity.  Which is really not the case.  It's like claiming you know what playing in the NFL is like because you played touch football one afternoon 15 years ago.

Based on YOUR comments, it doesn't seem that Texas school boards think so.

Federal.  Laws.  I'm not exactly sure how you think those are decided by Texas school boards.  Trust me if that were the case those laws would be very, very different.

Link?

You mean like the one you included in the next quote? 

Resources are finite and based on decisions made by LOCAL school boards and the state of Texas.  The citizens of Texas KNOW that school funding is 'Byzantine' needs to be modernized yet haven't taken the actions needed to get it done. 

In 1993 the heavily Democrat Texas legislature passed a school funding law that capped local property taxes, and then seized those taxes for redistribution.  That was ruled unconstitutional in 2005 and was modified slightly, but the majority of local funding was still seized by the state.  The modified version was ruled unconstitutional in 2013, and political wrangling over a replacement plan has been ongoing since.  The old system is still in place, and low income districts know that all they have to do is oppose any reform and they'll keep getting paid.  

You link states that the 'federal guidelines' you speak of have been in use since 1974. Are you saying that Texas can't figure shit out after 45 years? 

You mean they can't estimate how many illegals are going to come across in any given year, how many will get past the border patrol, where they're likely to settle, how many children they're going to bring or have, how oil or cotton prices or other economic conditions will impact property valuations or what new requirements the federal govt will demand? 

No.  They've had a bit of difficulty.  There is a current joint research project between the University of Texas and Texas Instruments to develop either a "crystal ball" or a "magic mirror", but it's slow going, as you might imagine.

Your link also seems to say that the 'program' that your school district has implemented is in violation: 

And then you cite a rule allowing the very thing you claim is a violation.  EL kids are mainstreamed into regular classes, but then they have one or two class periods a day devoted to learning to speak English and then a study hall type program where they get help on their other subjects.  

 
 
 
Dulay
Professor Expert
1.1.47  Dulay  replied to  Jack_TX @1.1.46    5 years ago
You believe your situation gives you familiarity. Which is really not the case.

You claim an expertise based solely merely living in Texas. WTF do you KNOW about the LIVES of immigrants, legal or illegal? 

Federal. Laws. I'm not exactly sure how you think those are decided by Texas school boards.

Is it your posit that after 45 years the Texas school boards STILL have no responsibility to devise a program for ESL students? 

You mean like the one you included in the next quote?

No. I mean the link I asked for. One that supports your claim that Federal guidelines require ESL students into separate classrooms with 2 teachers. 

The old system is still in place, and low income districts know that all they have to do is oppose any reform and they'll keep getting paid.

So you blame the 1993 Democratic legislature even though Texas has been controlled by the GOP since 2002? WTF has the GOP DONE about the lack of education funding since 2002 Jack? 

You mean they can't estimate how many illegals are going to come across in any given year,

Please refrain from trying to put words in my mouth. 

Your excuses might be relevant were it not for the FACT that Texas has failed to adequately fund the programs for DECADES. 

And then you cite a rule allowing the very thing you claim is a violation. EL kids are mainstreamed into regular classes, but then they have one or two class periods a day devoted to learning to speak English and then a study hall type program where they get help on their other subjects.

So when you said: 

I personally taught a class with 38 enrolled students and 30 desks in the room (we couldn't fit any more than that). Across the hall the ESOL room had 5 kids and 2 certified teachers.

You meant for ONE class a DAY? 

Oh and wouldn't those 5 students just be ADDED to those 38 next period? 

It sounds to me like your issues would be remedied by hiring MORE teachers rather than bumping the blame on ESL students. 

BTFW, a rule that 'allows' something doesn't seem to me to REQUIRE 2 teachers in a separate class. 

 
 
 
Jack_TX
Professor Quiet
1.1.48  Jack_TX  replied to  Dulay @1.1.47    5 years ago
You claim an expertise based solely merely living in Texas. WTF do you KNOW about the LIVES of immigrants, legal or illegal?

You're right.  I've only lived among immigrants, legal and illegal, for most of my life.  What could I possibly know?  Better question...just exactly how desperate are you to cling to your liberal beliefs?  You clearly have near zero knowledge of this situation, and you appear stubbornly committed to that state of affairs.

Is it your posit that after 45 years the Texas school boards STILL have no responsibility to devise a program for ESL students?

I'm not sure how the whole 'federal regulation' thing got past you.  Federal law....that I've cited for you .... clearly states that schoo districts must provide these services.  What part of that is tripping you up?

So you blame the 1993 Democratic legislature even though Texas has been controlled by the GOP since 2002?

Bleeding heart socialist law passed without regard to the constitution to assuage the "feelings" of guilty liberals?  I've never seen a Republican legislatue do that, but if you have an example, I'm all ears. WTF has the GOP DONE about the lack of education funding since 2002 Jack? 

Pretty much everything they can.  It's been in court pretty consistently for the last 25 years.  BTW, it's not "lack of funding".  I realize that's pretty much the automatic leftist solution for everything, but it' almost never accurate.  The problem is allocation of existing funding....which is currently done through an illegal system.  

None of which has anything to do with the self centered northern liberals who convince themselves illegal immigration isn't a problem because DailyKos says so and because their "feelings" tell them.

Please refrain from trying to put words in my mouth. 

Wow.  Who knew so much irony could fit in so few words?  

You meant for ONE class a DAY? 

No.  That was what we call an "example".  It's designed to demonstrate a broad concept using a concrete illustration.

Oh and wouldn't those 5 students just be ADDED to those 38 next period? 

No...  You're really not following this.   That classroom, staffed with 2 full time teachers, ran all day (7 class periods) with no more than 10 kids at a time.  Those teachers were paid more because they had special ESL certification, as required by those guidelines you keep refusing to read.  So at any given time during the day, you have ESL kids getting a 2:1 or 3:1 student/teacher ratio experience.  Meanwhile, American kids who did not qualify for ESL programs were getting anywhere from a 20:1 to a 45:1 student/teacher ratio experience. 

Those ESL teachers were also responsible for monitoring the academic progress of ESL students, even if the student in question was fully mainstreamed and didn't have a dedicated ESL period.  American kids get no such academic support.   

It sounds to me like your issues would be remedied by hiring MORE teachers rather than bumping the blame on ESL students. 

How many?  How many immigrants will be enrolling next fall? Now....if they were documented....you might be able to predict that.  But you have even less clue about that than you do about the rest of this issue.

 
 
 
Dulay
Professor Expert
1.1.49  Dulay  replied to  Jack_TX @1.1.48    5 years ago
I've only lived among immigrants, legal and illegal, for most of my life.  What could I possibly know?

Merely living in Texas doesn't qualify for living 'among' them Jack. 

You clearly have near zero knowledge of this situation, and you appear stubbornly committed to that state of affairs.

If by 'this situation' you mean the topic of the seed, which is assimilation of Hispanics in America, I posit that I have a hell of a lot more knowledge about it than you do. 

Federal law....that I've cited for you .... clearly states that schoo districts must provide these services. What part of that is tripping you up?

What part of Texas school districts having 45 YEARS to devise programs to comply with that Federal law got past YOU Jack? What part of the GOP being in control for the last 17 YEARS is tripping you up Jack? 

BTW Jack, Texas is one of the FEW states that still require SEPERATE ESL education classes. Other states comply with the Federal law that you keep touting by INTEGRATING their students. Texas CHOOSES to segregate theirs at a MUCH higher cost to the state. 

So don't blame Federal laws, blame your state's leadership for a lack of vision. 

Pretty much everything they can. It's been in court pretty consistently for the last 25 years.

So the GOP in Texas is incapable of writing tax legislation that is constitutional on it's face. You must be proud. 

BTW, it's not "lack of funding".

Really? If it isn't because of a lack of funding, WHY the 38 students in your class Jack? Why have so many of your comments been about 'finite funding'? 

The FACT is, the GOP Texas legislature cut property taxes creating a 'structural deficit' and they STILL aren't allocating the amount needed. 

 I realize that's pretty much the automatic leftist solution for everything, but it' almost never accurate. The problem is allocation of existing funding....which is currently done through an illegal system.

Really Jack? What 'illegal system' is that? Please be specific. 

None of which has anything to do with the self centered northern liberals who convince themselves illegal immigration isn't a problem because DailyKos says so and because their "feelings" tell them.

Blah, blah, blah...

No. That was what we call an "example". It's designed to demonstrate a broad concept using a concrete illustration.

A 'concrete illustration' of ONE period a DAY. 

No... You're really not following this. That classroom, staffed with 2 full time teachers, ran all day (7 class periods) with no more than 10 kids at a time.

Per the TEXAS regulations, there were 2 teachers in that ESL class because one was a Coach and the other was NOT certified as a ESL teacher yet. Are YOU following this? 

Those teachers were paid more because they had special ESL certification, as required by those guidelines you keep refusing to read.

Yes and the Texas legislature seems to have figured out a way to pay them MORE for there EXTRA certification. They legislated the Bilingual Education Allotment in 1995. That allotment is based on yearly enrollment in the program so it looks like they DO have a handle on 'fluctuation' too. 

BTW, there are also waivers for ESL certification if a district can't find certified teachers...

Those ESL teachers were also responsible for monitoring the academic progress of ESL students, even if the student in question was fully mainstreamed and didn't have a dedicated ESL period. American kids get no such academic support.  

Actually Jack, the TEA monitors the academic progress of ALL Texas students, their data is online. BTFW, collecting data has NOTHING to do with giving students 'academic support'. 

How many? How many immigrants will be enrolling next fall? Now....if they were documented....you might be able to predict that. But you have even less clue about that than you do about the rest of this issue.

Gee Jack, your own 'concrete illustration' along with your teacher to student ratio proves that the ESL classes aren't the ones that need more teachers. It's the classes with the 'American kids' that are understaffed and you just admitted that those numbers are predictable. 

So again, your beef is with the leadership in your state being unable or unwilling to address this issue for decades. 

 
 
 
arkpdx
Professor Quiet
1.1.50  arkpdx  replied to  Dulay @1.1.49    5 years ago
What part of Texas school districts having 45 YEARS to devise programs to comply with that Federal law got past YOU Jack? What part of the GOP being in control for the last 17 YEARS is tripping you up Jack? 

You must think very highly of the Republicans and feel that they are much more competent than the democrats . Your comment says that you you expected them to do in 17 years that which the democrats could not get done in 28 years. 

 
 
 
Dulay
Professor Expert
1.1.51  Dulay  replied to  arkpdx @1.1.50    5 years ago
You must think very highly of the Republicans and feel that they are much more competent than the democrats .

Actually, judging from Jack's comments, no. 

Your comment says that you you expected them to do in 17 years that which the democrats could not get done in 28 years.

In those 28 years that Dems were in control after the Federal law kicked in, apprehensions went UP, in the 17 years that the GOP were in control, apprehensions went DOWN. 2002, over 1 Million, 2018 467,000. 

So the GOP had an easier job of dealing with ESL programs yet  STILL suck at it. 

Secondly, as far as TOTAL education funding, starting in 2005, the GOP cut in property taxes by about a third, which was the nail in the coffin of an already underfunded system. IN short, they exasperated the problem for political reasons. 

Perry and the GOP screwed schools and then 'allowed' local governments to raise their own taxes. Of course, they NEVER caught up.

But hey, Perry could tour the country bragging about how low state taxes are right? 

BTFW, the GOP, it their wisdom, are proposing MORE cuts in property taxes...

 
 
 
Jack_TX
Professor Quiet
1.1.52  Jack_TX  replied to  Dulay @1.1.49    5 years ago
Merely living in Texas doesn't qualify for living 'among' them Jack. 

How about coaching soccer with them?  How about drinking with them....regularly?  How about having them in my home on a regular basis?  How many are in your home on a regular basis?   How many do you even know?

But thanks. That statement was the best answer you could have given to the "how committed are you to protecting your liberal views no matter the evidence" question.  The answer is "wholly, blindly and desperately".  

Your statements make it very clear you don't know your Hugo Sanchez from your Hugo Chavez, and you're not interested.

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
1.1.53  Vic Eldred  replied to  Dulay @1.1.5    5 years ago
What is STUPID is that some actually think that to be 'American' one must assimilate with European culture.

What is more stupid is pretending that Hispanics are anything other than descendants of SPAIN....You know Europe's Spain. But we have to play that game, don't we!

 
 
 
Dulay
Professor Expert
1.1.54  Dulay  replied to  Jack_TX @1.1.52    5 years ago
How many are in your home on a regular basis?   

When I was working as a manager, dozens a month. Now that I have moved and retired, we get together for birthdays, weddings, baptisms and Quinceañeras. I had a set of brothers over to my house for some major landscape work last spring. It cost me a case of beer and a batch of my Pork Verde tacos. 

How many do you even know?

Dozens of families. I have sponsored three sets of grandparents in the last 2 decades and gave seed money for a family business that is thriving. I get home made Chile Rellenos [my favorite] or Tamales delivered from 30 miles away any time I want. It was a great investment. 

If you count MY family, at least a hundred. I haven't seen the PI family that I sponsored since I moved from CA. All MY PI family in Chicago are second [like me], third and fourth generation now. All of the second generation went to college. I'd say that we 'assimilated' quite well though I still  wore a Barong Tagalog @ my wedding. 

But thanks. That statement was the best answer you could have given to the "how committed are you to protecting your liberal views no matter the evidence" question. The answer is "wholly, blindly and desperately".

Wow, Jack, quite a shift to personal comments.

The fact that you didn't address the majority of my post tells me that you don't like the FACTS that I posted refuting your fantasy about Texas' issue with school funding. If YOU had facts instead of hyperbole, you would have posted it. Your 'argument' failed. 

Your statements make it very clear you don't know your Hugo Sanchez from your Hugo Chavez, and you're not interested.

Perhaps you could explain the relevance of knowing about either of them to our discussion. I'll wait...

 
 
 
Dulay
Professor Expert
1.1.56  Dulay  replied to  Vic Eldred @1.1.53    5 years ago
What is more stupid is pretending that Hispanics are anything other than descendants of SPAIN....You know Europe's Spain.

Who 'pretended' that? I said NOTHING about 'Hispanics'. 

 But we have to play that game, don't we!

What game are you talking about Vic? 

 
 
 
Dulay
Professor Expert
1.1.58  Dulay  replied to  Release The Kraken @1.1.57    5 years ago
In this case we are talking primarily about people from Mexico.

Actually BF, Hispanic refers to LANGUAGE, Latino refers to GEOGRAPHY. 

BTW, the majority of those coming across now are NOT primarily from Mexico. 

 
 
 
Dulay
Professor Expert
1.1.60  Dulay  replied to  Release The Kraken @1.1.59    5 years ago
Did i mention Hispanic?

Vic did and he was the one I was having a discussion with before you interjected your genealogy lesson. 

The wiki Ninja that posts irrelevant data. I said NOW BF.

Here's some data from the end of 2017

Rio Grande Valley (formerly McAllen)

Total apprehensions 137,562

Other than Mexican Apprehensions 107,909

More children and families are being apprehended between the ports of entry than ever before. For the first time in history, family units and children comprise the vast majority of apprehensions.

Here's 2018 'Family units' :

El Salvador
13,669
Guatemala
50,401
Honduras
39,439
Mexico
2,261

Sorta shows that those crossing NOW aren't primarily Mexican doesn't it BF? Guess one needs to be more than a 'wiki Ninja to acquire relevant data. 

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
1.1.61  Vic Eldred  replied to  Release The Kraken @1.1.57    5 years ago
Mexico's population is largely Mestizo. That is North American Indian mixed with Caucasians from Spain.

Mestizo you say?


1200px-Enrique_Pena_Nieto.jpg cuanto-gana-el-presidente-de-espa%C3%B1a2-570x336.jpg

President of Mexico                                             President of Spain


Go figure.

 
 
 
Kavika
Professor Principal
1.1.62  Kavika   replied to  Vic Eldred @1.1.61    5 years ago

Mestizo you say...

Yup, that's correct. over 60% of Mexico are Mestizo. Whites make up around 10/15% and AmerIndians around 15/20%.

There are Arab-Mexicans that number over a million. Plus Afro-Mexicans and Asian-Mexicans. 

Carlos Slim is a Mexican citizen and one of the richest men in the world. He is of Lebanese decent. Go figure. 

As for the photos, this is a fairly good explanation to the reasoning that they look European. 

Following the arrival of Europeans, intermarriage resulted in an increasing  mestizo  population that over the centuries became the dominant  ethnic group  in Mexico. Northern Mexico is overwhelmingly mestizo in both urban and rural areas. Mexicans of European descent, including those who immigrated during the 20th century, are largely concentrated in urban areas, especially Mexico City, and in the West. As is the case throughout  Latin America , people of European descent and other lighter-skinned Mexicans dominate the wealthiest echelons of Mexican society, owing to racial  discrimination  and centuries of economic, political, and social policies favouring the inheritance of wealth. In contrast, mestizos occupy a wide range of social and economic positions, while indigenous Indians are predominantly poor and working-class, often industrial and service workers in cities and peasants in the countryside. Notwithstanding such generalizations, some individuals manage to improve their lot through education, political action, or entrepreneurship.

P.S. There is a substantial Russian and Eastern European contingent in Mexico as well. 

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
1.1.63  Vic Eldred  replied to  Kavika @1.1.62    5 years ago
over 60% of Mexico are Mestizo.

So tell us....Is Mestizo a color? If so what color?

 
 
 
Kavika
Professor Principal
1.1.64  Kavika   replied to  Vic Eldred @1.1.63    5 years ago
So tell us....Is Mestizo a color? If so what color?

Geez Vic, haven't you ever been to Mexico or actually met people from Mexico...

Pretty simple really. 

 
 
 
Ed-NavDoc
Professor Quiet
1.2  Ed-NavDoc  replied to  JohnRussell @1    5 years ago

In this particular insrance John, I agree with you 100%.  And I say this as somebody who is of Mexican American heritage who lives on the border. My maternal grandparents emigrated here legally from Mexico at the beginning of the last century. They made every effort to assimilate raised their children here and made sure they did too.

 
 
 
Sparty On
Professor Principal
1.3  Sparty On  replied to  JohnRussell @1    5 years ago

Couldn't agree more John.  

My dads parents emigrated to the US from the Slovakia area in the early 1900's.   They were proud of their heritage but even prouder to become Americans.   They strove very hard to assimilate.   Most immigrant back then did.   That is what's missing today.   Many immigrants today seem to want to emigrate to the US but turn it into the country they emigrated from.

Makes no sense really.

 
 
 
GaJenn78
Sophomore Silent
1.3.1  GaJenn78  replied to  Sparty On @1.3    5 years ago

My grandfather also emigrated here through Ellis Island from Czechoslovakia. His dad was here for 11 years before he and his mom were able to come. 

 
 
 
Jack_TX
Professor Quiet
1.5  Jack_TX  replied to  JohnRussell @1    5 years ago
I think he has a point though.

Yes.  Yes he does.

 
 
 
96WS6
Junior Quiet
1.6  96WS6  replied to  JohnRussell @1    5 years ago
People who want to live in America permanently should make an honest effort to become American. 

Kudos to have the guts to speak your mind.  Be careful though Brokaw is already finding out what happens when you step out of line on the left.  You are certain to be attacked by your own just as he was....Oops too late.

 
 
 
arkpdx
Professor Quiet
1.7  arkpdx  replied to  JohnRussell @1    5 years ago

People who want to live in America permanently should make an honest effort to become American. 

Darn good thing I am in a medical facility, I actually agree with John. 

OMG! MY HEART JUST CANT TAKE THE SHOCK! NURSE! NURSE! I NEED HELP!

 
 
 
Tacos!
Professor Guide
3  Tacos!    5 years ago

In my experience, people who aren't coming here to be criminals actually do work pretty hard to assimilate. 

 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
3.1  Tessylo  replied to  Tacos! @3    5 years ago

So who are those coming here to be criminals?

 
 
 
Tacos!
Professor Guide
3.1.2  Tacos!  replied to  Tessylo @3.1    5 years ago
So who are those coming here to be criminals?

Criminals. It's not any more complex than that. They are people who come to the US to prey on Americans instead of become one.

 
 
 
KDMichigan
Junior Participates
3.1.3  KDMichigan  replied to  Tessylo @3.1    5 years ago
So who are those coming here to be criminals?

The ones who crossed the border illegally?

 
 
 
Sparty On
Professor Principal
4  Sparty On    5 years ago

Aw ... he kowtowed to the PC police.

Too bad, too bad!

 
 
 
Hal A. Lujah
Professor Guide
5  Hal A. Lujah    5 years ago

I’m in a clothing store on the waterfront in Miami as I write this.  The music overhead is Spanish, as is the radio station, and every clerk and customer in the store is Latino except for my wife and I.  Earlier I was in a different store, and a clerk came up to me and spoke to me in Spanish.  There is nothing remotely Spanish about me.  Lol.

 
 
 
Kavika
Professor Principal
6  Kavika     5 years ago

I think that the Irish should assimilate...Get rid of St. Patrick's Day.

 
 
 
charger 383
Professor Silent
6.1  charger 383  replied to  Kavika @6    5 years ago

NO! that day is an excuse for anybody to drink,   Green Beer for everyone but don't ask for mead 

 
 
 
Kavika
Professor Principal
6.2  Kavika   replied to  Kavika @6    5 years ago

The Italians should assimilate as well...Get rid of the Feast of San Gennaro and the K of C...Send them back to the old country along with their Pizza. 

As for the Germans, another group that keeps to assimilate. No more October Fest. 

 
 
 
Dulay
Professor Expert
6.2.1  Dulay  replied to  Kavika @6.2    5 years ago
No more October Fest.

Now you've gone a bridge too far!

 
 
 
Kavika
Professor Principal
6.2.2  Kavika   replied to  Dulay @6.2.1    5 years ago

3qzksm.jpg

 
 
 
Tacos!
Professor Guide
6.3  Tacos!  replied to  Kavika @6    5 years ago
St. Patrick's Day.

St Patrick's Day and Cinco de Mayo are some of my favorite holidays because for a day, we all get to be Irish or Mexican a little bit whether we actually have that ancestry or not. Although, these days, there's probably some PC nofun-nik who thinks it's cultural appropriation. But for me, it's a delightful blending of cultures that you're not likely to find anywhere outside of America.

 
 
 
Kavika
Professor Principal
6.3.1  Kavika   replied to  Tacos! @6.3    5 years ago

In Mexico and part of central America they have ''Gringo Day''....Yup, it's tr

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
7  Texan1211    5 years ago

I feel bad that Brokaw felt the need to apologize for that remark, if he made it because that is the way he feels.

There was nothing wrong with it.

 
 
 
Nowhere Man
Junior Guide
8  Nowhere Man    5 years ago

And a pretty good example of the bigotry that flows in the opposite direction......

Not only anti white hatred but the self assured assumption that all those races are going to be voting democrat also.....

Any question why they want open borders?

Tom Brokaw donkey of the day.......

 
 
 
bbl-1
Professor Quiet
10  bbl-1    5 years ago

Actually, Brokaw is half right.  He somehow forgot the rest of ( IT ).  It is America itself that needs to assimilate.

Too bad our nation's education system does not provide and stress multi-lingual programs.  Think of the economic advantage America could have in the World Economy.

English only?  Really?  Why? 

 
 
 
Sparty On
Professor Principal
10.2  Sparty On  replied to  bbl-1 @10    5 years ago
It is America itself that needs to assimilate. Too bad our nation's education system does not provide and stress multi-lingual programs. 

Can you imagine if this was required for the Ellis Island era Immigrants?

Get busy USA, you'll need to speak, teach and govern in:

- Germany

- Russian

- Austrian

don't forget:

- Swedish

- Italian

- Hungarian

And these would be needed as well:

- Irish

- Scottish

- Greek

And the Fed would be remiss to not include:

- Yiddish

- Slovak

- Croatian

- Scandinavian

- Turkish

- Arabic

- Armenian

- Lebanese

I think that more or less covers it but lets not forget the travesty of never assimilating to any from the African continent.   Make sure we get all of those as well.

Chop chop Fed ..... get on it!

 
 
 
The Magic 8 Ball
Masters Quiet
12  The Magic 8 Ball    5 years ago

it can only be called "a melting pot" if they melt/ assimilate.

otherwise, it is just a storage pot.

 
 
 
luther28
Sophomore Silent
13  luther28    5 years ago

Mr. Brokaw's only sin in my estimation was limiting assimilation to Hispanics. I believe anyone migrating to a new Country should assimilate themselves into their new homeland.

Case in point, should I opt to move to France, I would have to learn the culture, language etc., I see no issue with expecting folks to do the same when they come here. That is the way it was and in my opinion the way it should be.

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
14  seeder  JohnRussell    5 years ago

article seven days old

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