Attorney releases Video showing the Group that identifies as Hebrew Israelites hurling slurs at the Native Americans
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The audio is very clear on this video. We did not see this in any of the videos used by the media and the Hebrew Israelites were defended in several media reports. It shows a clear picture of hate and bigotry towards the Native American group. Very sad to watch.
Nathan Philips lied multiple times. In one instance, he said that he walked toward the students while praying and beating on his drum to "diffuse" the situation. Why would he go toward the students who weren't doing anything instead of "diffusing" the situation by walking toward the Hebrew Israelites who were clearly instigating and yelling racist and despicable things? Who has Philips actually sided with in all of this?
Nick Sandmann hit the lottery at a young age. Hopefully he and his family surround themselves with the right people to help them manage the situation as I’m sure it won’t be easy.
My guess is very few if any of the libel cases will actually go to court. There will not be any single big payouts. Rather, there will be numerous smaller sums paid to the Sandmanns out of court in order to put the matter to rest. If you are a defendant, you’ll want to keep the legal fees and exposure to a minimum. Some media and individuals tried to destroy this young man. The intent and malice are clear.
Now the threats to the family and the school are a different story. People are going to go to jail and lose their jobs.
OK I am going to say my piece about this story for the last time. I am going to lay this out plainly.
Fact: The Black Israelites were antagonistic and inciteful.
The mood at that spot was intense. I will give 90% of the general overall mood and unrest to the Black Israelites. We have enough of them in NYC to know what disgusting pigs and racists they are.
Fact: The kids were taunted by them.
I am sure they were quite jazzed by the insults being hurled by the Israelites.
Fact: Only the Indians had a permit to be there. They were there to do what they were doing.
It is irrelevant to the story if Nathan Philips lied about his service during Vietnam. The events of that day are the only thing that matters. He might have said that he heard stuff that he wasn't actually said or head coming from the Israelites. We know that some of the kids were making the Indian hand chop and that might have influenced the general vibe he was getting from the place and why there were some comments made back and forth between kids and some of the other Indians. That part is unclear. Nathan Philips may have felt threaten or not. He didn't look like he was, but again, we are not in his head.
Fact: Nathan Philips walked into the fray. His motivations are unknown other than he was the only one who had the right to be there.
Fact: Only Nick Sandman didn't move. His peers did. He smiled. The interpretation of the smile is what is at the crux of this.
I taught my kids to move for adults. The smile.. what did it mean?
My opinion:
It is a smirk and one of defiance. Chin forward, mouth closed, slight turn up of the corners of his mouth. I have seen this grin before from my daughters' peers and from substitute teaching in their school. In my opinion, it is entitled arrogance. My town is so famous for its entitled arrogance, so much so, that there have now been 3 movies and 1 TV show about it, so I am good at IDing it when I see it. I've seen it too much. Also, only entitled kids get PR firms and lawyers to save their asses when they come off looking bad. Take note: The kid smirking in the confrontation on the steps looks a heck of a lot different to the humble child we all saw in the interview. PR coaching does that.
That all being said, the worst thing you could say about the kid (without getting into his head) is that behaved confrontationally and rudely. The fact that this went viral is what caused this whole mess. The kid should have gotten a reprimand from his non-attentive teachers on site and that should have been the end of the story. The fact that it got this blown out of proportion is the ridiculous part. You can thank the internet and the media for that.
FACT: The Lincoln Memorial is a PUBLIC building. The kids had a perfect right to be there.
Fact, they were not allowed to block the stairs as it is a public place. They were doing just that.
FACT: The kids were TOLD to be there by their chaperones until the buses came to pick them up.
That is true, but that was the chaperones mistake. They seem to have made many.
FACT: Sandmann gestured to one of his fellow students whom was arguing with someone in Phillips party over history.
Fact: Neither you or I know what was said. I watched it, too you can not hear anything.
FACT: Sandmann's gestures to his fellow student WERE NEVER SHOWN on the media.
That may or may not be a fact. I have never seen that part of the video before, but it's been weeks since the event, and I am sure other videos came to light.
They weren't blocking the stairs. Phillips moved towards them IGNORING a clear path. THAT you can clearly see in the Black Hebrew Israelites video. Phillips is at fault for creating a confrontation here when he didn't need to. You cannot deny that.
By the way, what you call a smirk, I call an uncomfortable, polite smile given to someone whom is getting into your personal space and not giving you any indication of what exactly he is doing. As they say in the seeded video, Sandmann is on a higher step with kids all around him with no clear path to go in any direction with a guy in his face. What would you do in such a situation?
Tom, let me get this straight. Phillips is the only one with a permit to be there is wrong because he did a march through a bunch of kids, playing a drum and singing.. and the kid.. who I would agree with the meaning of his smirk if he didn't stick his chin forward..is flawless in this?
Do I have to find citations for body language now?
Not true, the boys weren't blocking the stairs at all, Phillips had a clear path to the stairs, but went out of his way to harass Sandermann.
Do you know how ridiculous that comment sounds? Phillips didn't know Sandman from a hole in the wall. You are implying that he singled out one boy and went after him? Come on now. Rewatch the video that BF posted.
Sure, I would think in a group of students that large there's more than one. Still doesn't excuse how the adults involved have attempted to manipulate this story with no regard for the kids or their families. Seriously, known people saying that this kid deserves violence because of his facial expression!!?
Fact: Only the Indians had a permit to be there. They were there to do what they were doing.
A permit was not necessary for the school kids to wait for a bus, or to be there at all.
Fact: Nathan Philips walked into the fray. His motivations are unknown other than he was the only one who had the right to be there
Yes, Phillips had a right to be there. So did the kids, for that matter. He was NOT the only one who had a right to be there.
Fact: Only Nick Sandman didn't move. His peers did. He smiled. The interpretation of the smile is what is at the crux of this.
It wasn't required of him to move, He had every right to stand there peacefully, which he did, without a doubt. Phillips could have easily gone around him IF he really wanted to go around him. He made absolutely no effort whatsoever to do so. Why should the kid move when it is very clear he was there first?
A permit was not necessary for the school kids to wait for a bus, or to be there at all.
Given that the area was supposed to be for the Indians, you don't know if kids or the Israelites had the right to be there. You are surmising.
It wasn't required of him to move, He had every right to stand there peacefully, which he did, without a doubt. Phillips could have easily gone around him IF he really wanted to go around him. He made absolutely no effort whatsoever to do so. Why should the kid move when it is very clear he was there first?
Since the Indians had the permit to be there, it supersedes the kids. Of course, the kids and their teachers seem to be aware of this. And why should Phillips be the one to go around? Beyond the fact that he legally was the only one who had the right to be there, how about respect? The Indians were marching through the crowd, yet this one kid is the only one who would not move to let them march through. I would have never let a student of mine treat an adult in that manner.
But aren't you surmising that the Indians' permit was for that exact spot?
I doubt that a permit disallows people from visiting the Lincoln Memorial, even while a protest or rally is ongoing.
And had kids marched through a group of adults, would you feel the same? Or would you think it rude to march through a group of people? How about if a kid put a speaker up next to someone's head and turned the volume up? Would that have been acceptable as the Indian man beating the drum as close as he could to the kid's face?
And actually, the permit was for another location, according to this site (the second link). The location was changed because they anticipated thousands more than originally thought, which I saw no evidence of in any of these videos.
Everybody involved was on an equal footing constitutionally speaking........even the disgusting Israelites. Nobody’s rights were violated and nobody was injured. It is actually a great examample of a plural society exercising their 1st amendment rights.
The problem is everything that happened after. There were some rights violated and crimes committed.
I believe the kids were attending the Right to Life Rally, which ALSO had received a permit to be there.
No. They were attending it elsewhere and had a permit to be elsewhere. So no they did not have the right to be at that spot. They had the right to be at another spot.
I doubt that a permit disallows people from visiting the Lincoln Memorial, even while a protest or rally is ongoing.
They were not visiting. They were congregating. That is not allowed where there is supposed to be public access. That is why when I used to take my class to the American Museum of History, we were told to move if we were blocking access. Public performers, on the other hand, were allowed.
They were not blocking access. You can clearly see a clear area up the steps in the Black Hebrew Israelites video that shows Phillips approaching the group. And, the threatening feeling that Sandmann got was from Phillips shoving his drum in Sandmann's face while seeing that Sandmann had no clear path out of the way. And, if the kids were blocking access, don't you think the police would have already told them to move?
So no one has a right to be there except for the Indian group?
That is so wrong!
And they DID have the right to be there.
Read here:
The only group that had the right to be there were the Indians.
If a movie crew paid for a permit, they would be the only ones entitled to use the area. That is why they grant permits. They are specific to type, where and when and how long.
Look at the seeded video at the 2:54 mark, when Phillips approached the group. You can clearly see an unobstructed path up the steps to the Lincoln Memorial to his right. This is the same path and view in shown in the Black Hebrew Israelites video, in fact, this looks to be taken directly from that video.
Oh, by the way, if you watch the background at the 2:54 mark, you can clearly see the steps and into where the statue of Abraham Lincoln is sitting. Also, there are maybe about a dozen people standing on the steps total at that point. The kids are off to the Lincoln's right and are definitely not blocking the most direct path as Phillips walks past the monument to get to the kids. So, Phillips was not obstructed at all and he chose to confront a bunch of school kids. That really makes him into the big man at the Lincoln Memorial, doesn't it? /sarc
The only group that had the right to be there were the Indians.
Actually, their March route did not include the Lincoln Memorial.
It’ll start Friday with an 8 a.m. gathering and prayer outside the Building of Interior Affairs, at 1849 C St. NW. Then, the march will go east on C Street, south on 18th Street and cross to Constitution Avenue, ending in a 10 a.m. rally at Henry Bacon Park, north of the Lincoln Memorial between Henry Bacon Drive and 23rd Street Northwest.
As you can see by the map in the article...their march and demonstrations were not routed to the Lincoln Memorial.
As you can see by the map in the article...their march and demonstrations were not routed to the Lincoln Memorial.
That’s a good find. Though I don’t think it will matter much to those still clinging to the idea that Phillips had some mystical right to unencumbered travel around a crowded Lincoln Memorial that supersedes all others.
They all had a right to be there, but not to engage in any sort of demonstration.
from your NPS link above:
(ii) Other park areas. Demonstrations and special events are not allowed in the following other park areas: (A) The Washington Monument, which means the area enclosed within the inner circle that surrounds the Monument's base, except for the official annual commemorative Washington birthday ceremony. (B) The Lincoln Memorial, which means that portion of the park area which is on the same level or above the base of the large marble columns surrounding the structure, and the single series of marble stairs immediately adjacent to and below that level, except for the official annual commemorative Lincoln birthday ceremony.
My pleasure. Yes, they all had the right to be there.
Mr. Phillips chose to start beating his drum and deliberately moved into the crowd of teens wearing MAGA hats. He wasn't part of a march on the steps of the Lincoln Memorial. One can surmise that his intent was to provoke a group of teens that appeared pretty rowdy already. Mr. Phillips did not have any permit, nor right, to do so. As the 'adult'...he knew better. Mr. Phillips received the apologetic Media's attention...another intent. Had he approached the group of Black Hebrew Israelites...well, besides his own safety...it wouldn't have played as well for him in the media.
While you may feel that the teen acted like a brat, I see it differently. He was not offensive, he did not chant nor do the tomahawk, he didn't laugh...he encouraged another teen to stop arguing...he merely stood his ground against an aggressive ADULT. Was he being defiant, or was he nervous and attempting to appear cool about the drum being beaten so close to his face? I raised two boys...I know the look. I also know that nerves can prompt that look.
Had Nick Sandmann moved aside...Mr. Phillips would have chosen another MAGA hat wearing teen
Had Mr. Phillips turned and walked away...or chosen to beat his drum up the unblocked portion of steps of the Lincoln Memorial...there wouldn't have been a story at all.
The optics were striking. I too was initially pissed at Sandmann, but I held comment for a couple days.......the optics were just too perfect.
the only reason Sandmann and Phillips were eye to eye was because Sandmann was standing on a step. In my opinion, that is why Phillips chose him. Phillips is kinda tall and lanky, and would have towered over Sandmann if they were standing on the same level..........optics gone.
My opinion:It is a smirk and one of defiance. Chin forward, mouth closed, slight turn up of the corners of his mouth. I have seen this grin before from my daughters' peers and from substitute teaching in their school. In my opinion, it is entitled arrogance.
I know a tthing or too bout defiance, and this punk should have had a drum stick shoved up his nostril
I agree. That kid's smirk could be seen by a blind guy 2 counties over. If I had been as disrespectful as he was that day, I would be wearing orthopedic underwear because my Mom's foot would still be up my butt.
Regarding the Hebrew Israelites, I think most people who have seen the videos would like to give every one of them a smack up-side the head.
What gets me about this discussion (if you want to call it that) is the worst thing I said was that the kid was an entitled brat. Not that he did anything else wrong. But Yikes.. apparently you can't call a kid an entitled brat. No wonder we have the society we have today.
But understand, it says more about you than it does him.
Did you ever notice,
that peoples eyes, don't lie very well...
cause , the window to ones soul, has a broken seal, probably due to that perverted Sea Lion, or perhaps, a Killer Whale, that doesn't have a bucket list to compare his too, N F he did, quite appear
Wait until they all get on their high horse about a kid that does something that irritates them....Re: David Hogg....I'll bet nobody here called him an entitled brat/s
apparently you can't call a kid an entitled brat.
Wait until they all get on their high horse about a kid that does something that irritates them....Re: David Hogg....I'll bet nobody here calledhiman entitled brat/s
Good Point. I totally forgot about that. Yeah they all seemed to pile on that kid, just for speaking his mind.
Wait until they all get on their high horse about a kid that does something that irritates them....Re: David Hogg....I'll bet nobody here called him an entitled brat/s
Likely some did. But it sure as hell wasn't me. I can’t imagine what kids go through these days. School was always a safe place for me growing up. It was a safe place for my kids growing up......though school shootings were becoming more frequent. There is a special place in hell for ANYBODY who takes that security away or threatens a school.
The events of that day are the only thing that matters.
I notice you don't mention Phillip's friend telling Sandmann to go back to Europe as Phillips walked up to him, banging a drum in face and not telling him what he was doing. A "peacemaker" doesn't beat a drum in someone's face without explanation. The combination of the two is aggressive in any situation. Sandmann handled it better than any kid could be expected to.
Also, you completely ignore Phillips lying to the media, that made this a viral story to begin with. Yes, the blame also goes to the media for simply accepting what this liar said without any evidence because it fit their preferred narrative.
He called the boys "beasts" who were attacking black men. He said they surrounded and threatened him. Nothing he said he was true, and was specifically designed to create a media firestorm.
I notice you don't mention Phillip's friend telling Sandmann to go back to Europe as Phillips walked up to him, banging a drum in face and not telling him what he was doing.
Not exactly how it happened. Did you watch the new video? Phillips and Sandmann were already engaged when someone said something to the other Indian (we don't hear that so we can't judge the reaction).
A "peacemaker" doesn't beat a drum in someone's face without explanation.
Phillips was marching through. The only one who didn't get out of his way was Sandmann. IDK, I taught my kids to get out of the way of elders.
Sandmann handled it better than any kid could be expected to.
You mean with his face saying "go ahead old man, punch me.. I dare ya". Yes very well.
Also, you completely ignore Phillips lying to the media, that made this a viral story to begin with.
Here, Sean, you've got me. I am not sure what came first, the video or the story. I think the video came first, but yes Phillips made it sound like he thought he was in danger, which I don't buy. And yes the media made a non story into a story, but I said that way up on top, so please don't make it sound that I didn't address this.
He called the boys "beasts" who were attacking black men. He said they surrounded and threatened him. Nothing he said he was true, and was specifically designed to create a media firestorm.
Please find that for me. I never heard that before.
'He called the boys "beasts" who were attacking black men. He said they surrounded and threatened him. Nothing he said he was true, and was specifically designed to create a media firestorm.'
Here it is Perrie. I debunked that before but it appears they keep repeating it. Not true.
Last paragraph is bolded. Complete lie above.
Native American leader of Michigan: 'Mob mentality' in students was 'scary'
Niraj Warikoo, Detroit Free PressPublished 8:40 a.m. ET Jan. 20, 2019 |Updated 3:52 p.m. ET Jan. 24, 2019
A diocese in Kentucky apologized on Saturday after videos emerged showing students from a Catholic boys' high school mocking Native Americans outside the Lincoln Memorial after a rally in Washington, D.C.AP
Correction: This story has been updated to clarify the original description of Nathan Phillips’ military service. Phillips is a Vietnam-era veteran who served in the U.S. Marine Corps Reserve from May 1972 to May 1976 and did not deploy to a war zone, according to a U.S. Marines spokesperson.
For years, Native American advocate Nathan Phillips of metro Detroit has been fighting for the rights of indigenous people.
On Friday, his battle gained national attention, as social media videos captured his standoff with a group of taunting Catholic school students in the nation's capital. The video of Phillips, peacefully drumming and singing, while surrounded by a hostile crowd illustrates the nation's political and racial tensions.
Speaking to the Free Press by phone, Phillips, 64, of Ypsilanti, explained what happened after 5 p.m. Friday during the Indigenous Peoples' March he was attending and spoke of his history working for the cause of Native American people.
He gave new details about an incident that sparked outrage and criticism from a range of groups.
Marine steps between "beast' and "prey"
Native American advocate Nathan Phillips, of Ypsilanti, Mich., sits for a portrait in Ypsilanti on May 2, 2015. Phillips gained national attention following a standoff between Phillips and a group of Catholic high school students went viral on Friday, January 18, 2019 in Washington, D.C. (Photo: Chris Stranad, Chris Stranad)
Prior to what is seen on the now-viral video, Phillips said he was in D.C. attending a Native American rally. Near the end of rally, he said he tried to keep the peace between a group of mostly white students attending a March for Life event and a gathering of about four black members of a religious group known as the Black Hebrew Israelites.
Phillips, a former Marine, said the incident started as a group of Catholic students from Kentucky were observing the Black Israelites talk, and started to get upset at their speeches. The Catholic group then got bigger and bigger, with more than 100 assembled at one point, he said.
"They witnessed these individuals on their soapbox saying what they had to say," Phillips said. "They didn't agree with it and got offended."
"They were in the process of attacking these four black individuals," Phillip said. "I was there and I was witnessing all of this ... As this kept on going on and escalating, it just got to a point where you do something or you walk away, you know? You see something that is wrong and you're faced with that choice of right or wrong. "
Phillips said some of the members of the Black Hebrew group were also acting up, "saying some harsh things" and that one member spit in the direction of the Catholic students. "So I put myself in between that, between a rock and hard place," he said.
But then, the crowd of mostly male students turned their anger towards Phillips.
"There was that moment when I realized I've put myself between beast and prey," Phillips said. "These young men were beastly and these old black individuals was their prey, and I stood in between them and so they needed their pounds of flesh and they were looking at me for that."
'OK I am going to say my piece about this story for the last time. I am going to lay this out plainly.
Fact: The Black Israelites were antagonistic and inciteful.
The mood at that spot was intense. I will give 90% of the general overall mood and unrest to the Black Israelites. We have enough of them in NYC to know what disgusting pigs and racists they are.
Fact: The kids were taunted by them.
I am sure they were quite jazzed by the insults being hurled by the Israelites.
Fact: Only the Indians had a permit to be there. They were there to do what they were doing.
It is irrelevant to the story ifNathan Philips lied about his service during Vietnam. The events of that day are the only thing that matters. He might have said that he heard stuff that he wasn't actually said or head coming from the Israelites. We know that some of the kids were making the Indian hand chop and that might have influenced the general vibe he was getting from the place and why there were some comments made back and forth between kids and some of the other Indians. That part is unclear. Nathan Philips may have felt threaten or not. He didn't look like he was, but again, we are not in his head.
Fact:Nathan Philips walked into the fray. His motivations are unknown other than he was the only one who had the right to be there.
Fact: Only Nick Sandman didn't move. His peers did. He smiled. The interpretation of the smile is what is at the crux of this.
I taught my kids to move for adults. The smile.. what did it mean?
My opinion:
It is a smirk and one of defiance. Chin forward, mouth closed, slight turn up of the corners of his mouth. I have seen this grin before from my daughters' peers and from substitute teaching in their school. In my opinion, it is entitled arrogance. My town is so famous for its entitled arrogance, so much so, that there have now been 3 movies and 1 TV show about it, so I am good at IDing it when I see it. I've seen it too much. Also, only entitled kids get PR firms and lawyers to save their asses when they come off looking bad. Take note: The kid smirking in the confrontation on the steps looks a heck of a lot different to the humble child we all saw in the interview. PR coaching does that.
That all being said, the worst thing you could say about the kid (without getting into his head) is that behaved confrontationally and rudely. The fact that this went viral is what caused this whole mess. The kid should have gotten a reprimand from his non-attentive teachers on site and that should have been the end of the story. The fact that it got this blown out of proportion is the ridiculous part. You can thank the internet and the media for that.'
Black Hebrew Israelites (also called Black Hebrews, African Hebrew Israelites, and Hebrew Israelites) are groups of Black Americans who believe that they are descendants of the ancient Israelites . Black Hebrews adhere in varying degrees to the religious beliefs and practices of both Christianity and Judaism . With the exception of a small number of individuals who have formally converted to Judaism , they are not recognized as Jews by the greater Jewish community. Many choose to identify themselves as Hebrew Israelites or Black Hebrews rather than Jews in order to indicate their claimed historic connections.
I assume everyone understands that they are not Jewish. With very little exception, Jews and Native Americans have always had a good mutual relationship.
But it didn't fit the "Lefts" ……. "Flavor of the day" !
Nathan Philips lied multiple times. In one instance, he said that he walked toward the students while praying and beating on his drum to "diffuse" the situation. Why would he go toward the students who weren't doing anything instead of "diffusing" the situation by walking toward the Hebrew Israelites who were clearly instigating and yelling racist and despicable things? Who has Philips actually sided with in all of this?
Nathan Philips lied multiple times.
Amazing how the media treated him with kid gloves. He's acted dishonestly and despicably throughout this whole occurrence.
Nick Sandmann hit the lottery at a young age. Hopefully he and his family surround themselves with the right people to help them manage the situation as I’m sure it won’t be easy.
My guess is very few if any of the libel cases will actually go to court. There will not be any single big payouts. Rather, there will be numerous smaller sums paid to the Sandmanns out of court in order to put the matter to rest. If you are a defendant, you’ll want to keep the legal fees and exposure to a minimum. Some media and individuals tried to destroy this young man. The intent and malice are clear.
Now the threats to the family and the school are a different story. People are going to go to jail and lose their jobs.
There are some different camera angles than we have seen before, but I didnt hear any audio that was not in the previous video seeded here.
yes, the Black Hebrews instigated 95% of the problem that day.
OK I am going to say my piece about this story for the last time. I am going to lay this out plainly.
Fact: The Black Israelites were antagonistic and inciteful.
The mood at that spot was intense. I will give 90% of the general overall mood and unrest to the Black Israelites. We have enough of them in NYC to know what disgusting pigs and racists they are.
Fact: The kids were taunted by them.
I am sure they were quite jazzed by the insults being hurled by the Israelites.
Fact: Only the Indians had a permit to be there. They were there to do what they were doing.
It is irrelevant to the story if Nathan Philips lied about his service during Vietnam. The events of that day are the only thing that matters. He might have said that he heard stuff that he wasn't actually said or head coming from the Israelites. We know that some of the kids were making the Indian hand chop and that might have influenced the general vibe he was getting from the place and why there were some comments made back and forth between kids and some of the other Indians. That part is unclear. Nathan Philips may have felt threaten or not. He didn't look like he was, but again, we are not in his head.
Fact: Nathan Philips walked into the fray. His motivations are unknown other than he was the only one who had the right to be there.
Fact: Only Nick Sandman didn't move. His peers did. He smiled. The interpretation of the smile is what is at the crux of this.
I taught my kids to move for adults. The smile.. what did it mean?
My opinion:
It is a smirk and one of defiance. Chin forward, mouth closed, slight turn up of the corners of his mouth. I have seen this grin before from my daughters' peers and from substitute teaching in their school. In my opinion, it is entitled arrogance. My town is so famous for its entitled arrogance, so much so, that there have now been 3 movies and 1 TV show about it, so I am good at IDing it when I see it. I've seen it too much. Also, only entitled kids get PR firms and lawyers to save their asses when they come off looking bad. Take note: The kid smirking in the confrontation on the steps looks a heck of a lot different to the humble child we all saw in the interview. PR coaching does that.
That all being said, the worst thing you could say about the kid (without getting into his head) is that behaved confrontationally and rudely. The fact that this went viral is what caused this whole mess. The kid should have gotten a reprimand from his non-attentive teachers on site and that should have been the end of the story. The fact that it got this blown out of proportion is the ridiculous part. You can thank the internet and the media for that.
I agree with everything you said except when you say Phillips was the only one that had a right to be there.
I don't think you need a permit to visit that plaza.
FACT: The Lincoln Memorial is a PUBLIC building. The kids had a perfect right to be there.
FACT: The kids were TOLD to be there by their chaperones until the buses came to pick them up.
FACT: Phillips ignored a clear path to get into the midst of the students, if he was actually trying to get to the Memorial.
FACT: Sandmann gestured to one of his fellow students whom was arguing with someone in Phillips party over history.
This gesture looked like a combination of "Stop arguing" and "Can I get your attention, please".
FACT: Sandmann's gestures to his fellow student WERE NEVER SHOWN on the media.
Fact, they were not allowed to block the stairs as it is a public place. They were doing just that.
That is true, but that was the chaperones mistake. They seem to have made many.
Fact: Neither you or I know what was said. I watched it, too you can not hear anything.
That may or may not be a fact. I have never seen that part of the video before, but it's been weeks since the event, and I am sure other videos came to light.
They weren't blocking the stairs. Phillips moved towards them IGNORING a clear path. THAT you can clearly see in the Black Hebrew Israelites video. Phillips is at fault for creating a confrontation here when he didn't need to. You cannot deny that.
By the way, what you call a smirk, I call an uncomfortable, polite smile given to someone whom is getting into your personal space and not giving you any indication of what exactly he is doing. As they say in the seeded video, Sandmann is on a higher step with kids all around him with no clear path to go in any direction with a guy in his face. What would you do in such a situation?
Tom, let me get this straight. Phillips is the only one with a permit to be there is wrong because he did a march through a bunch of kids, playing a drum and singing.. and the kid.. who I would agree with the meaning of his smirk if he didn't stick his chin forward..is flawless in this?
Do I have to find citations for body language now?
sheesh.
Not true, the boys weren't blocking the stairs at all, Phillips had a clear path to the stairs, but went out of his way to harass Sandermann.
Do you know how ridiculous that comment sounds? Phillips didn't know Sandman from a hole in the wall. You are implying that he singled out one boy and went after him? Come on now. Rewatch the video that BF posted.
In a target rich environment, you gotta pick one.
20+ years in a classroom tells me that there is always one PITA kid there. You never have to find them. They make themselves known.
Sure, I would think in a group of students that large there's more than one. Still doesn't excuse how the adults involved have attempted to manipulate this story with no regard for the kids or their families. Seriously, known people saying that this kid deserves violence because of his facial expression!!?
A permit was not necessary for the school kids to wait for a bus, or to be there at all.
Yes, Phillips had a right to be there. So did the kids, for that matter. He was NOT the only one who had a right to be there.
It wasn't required of him to move, He had every right to stand there peacefully, which he did, without a doubt. Phillips could have easily gone around him IF he really wanted to go around him. He made absolutely no effort whatsoever to do so. Why should the kid move when it is very clear he was there first?
Given that the area was supposed to be for the Indians, you don't know if kids or the Israelites had the right to be there. You are surmising.
Since the Indians had the permit to be there, it supersedes the kids. Of course, the kids and their teachers seem to be aware of this. And why should Phillips be the one to go around? Beyond the fact that he legally was the only one who had the right to be there, how about respect? The Indians were marching through the crowd, yet this one kid is the only one who would not move to let them march through. I would have never let a student of mine treat an adult in that manner.
But aren't you surmising that the Indians' permit was for that exact spot?
I doubt that a permit disallows people from visiting the Lincoln Memorial, even while a protest or rally is ongoing.
And had kids marched through a group of adults, would you feel the same? Or would you think it rude to march through a group of people? How about if a kid put a speaker up next to someone's head and turned the volume up? Would that have been acceptable as the Indian man beating the drum as close as he could to the kid's face?
And actually, the permit was for another location, according to this site (the second link). The location was changed because they anticipated thousands more than originally thought, which I saw no evidence of in any of these videos.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indigenous_Peoples_March
https://actionnetwork.org/events/indigenous-peoples-march
Everybody involved was on an equal footing constitutionally speaking........even the disgusting Israelites. Nobody’s rights were violated and nobody was injured. It is actually a great examample of a plural society exercising their 1st amendment rights.
The problem is everything that happened after. There were some rights violated and crimes committed.
I believe the kids were attending the Right to Life Rally, which ALSO had received a permit to be there.
So yes, the kids had JUST as much "right" to be there as anyone else, including members of the Indigenous People's March.
Wally,
The man was marching through the crowd banging a drum and singing. How is that aggressive? Is there something scary about Indian music?
No. They were attending it elsewhere and had a permit to be elsewhere. So no they did not have the right to be at that spot. They had the right to be at another spot.
They were not visiting. They were congregating. That is not allowed where there is supposed to be public access. That is why when I used to take my class to the American Museum of History, we were told to move if we were blocking access. Public performers, on the other hand, were allowed.
I pretty much said what you said.
They were not blocking access. You can clearly see a clear area up the steps in the Black Hebrew Israelites video that shows Phillips approaching the group. And, the threatening feeling that Sandmann got was from Phillips shoving his drum in Sandmann's face while seeing that Sandmann had no clear path out of the way. And, if the kids were blocking access, don't you think the police would have already told them to move?
Tom,
You must be watching some other video.
So no one has a right to be there except for the Indian group?
That is so wrong!
And they DID have the right to be there.
Then Phillips should have called a cop.
The kids are allowed to wait for a bus. No one was blocked from climbing the steps to the Lincoln Memorial, despite whatever Phillips claimed.
Were your kids allowed to stand in one spot while waiting to board the bus?
Not on the steps of any museum we ever went to. They had a special area of the kids to wait.
Read here:
The only group that had the right to be there were the Indians.
If a movie crew paid for a permit, they would be the only ones entitled to use the area. That is why they grant permits. They are specific to type, where and when and how long.
Not really
Look at the seeded video at the 2:54 mark, when Phillips approached the group. You can clearly see an unobstructed path up the steps to the Lincoln Memorial to his right. This is the same path and view in shown in the Black Hebrew Israelites video, in fact, this looks to be taken directly from that video.
Oh, by the way, if you watch the background at the 2:54 mark, you can clearly see the steps and into where the statue of Abraham Lincoln is sitting. Also, there are maybe about a dozen people standing on the steps total at that point. The kids are off to the Lincoln's right and are definitely not blocking the most direct path as Phillips walks past the monument to get to the kids. So, Phillips was not obstructed at all and he chose to confront a bunch of school kids. That really makes him into the big man at the Lincoln Memorial, doesn't it? /sarc
Actually, their March route did not include the Lincoln Memorial.
As you can see by the map in the article...their march and demonstrations were not routed to the Lincoln Memorial.
That’s a good find. Though I don’t think it will matter much to those still clinging to the idea that Phillips had some mystical right to unencumbered travel around a crowded Lincoln Memorial that supersedes all others.
Thank you for that piece of information. Then they all had the right to be there.
eh, government shutdown?
No Park Guards, no National park employees...
They all had a right to be there, but not to engage in any sort of demonstration.
from your NPS link above:
(ii) Other park areas. Demonstrations and special events are not allowed in the following other park areas:
(A) The Washington Monument, which means the area enclosed within the inner circle that surrounds the Monument's base, except for the official annual commemorative Washington birthday ceremony.
(B) The Lincoln Memorial, which means that portion of the park area which is on the same level or above the base of the large marble columns surrounding the structure, and the single series of marble stairs immediately adjacent to and below that level, except for the official annual commemorative Lincoln birthday ceremony.
My pleasure. Yes, they all had the right to be there.
Mr. Phillips chose to start beating his drum and deliberately moved into the crowd of teens wearing MAGA hats. He wasn't part of a march on the steps of the Lincoln Memorial. One can surmise that his intent was to provoke a group of teens that appeared pretty rowdy already. Mr. Phillips did not have any permit, nor right, to do so. As the 'adult'...he knew better. Mr. Phillips received the apologetic Media's attention...another intent. Had he approached the group of Black Hebrew Israelites...well, besides his own safety...it wouldn't have played as well for him in the media.
While you may feel that the teen acted like a brat, I see it differently. He was not offensive, he did not chant nor do the tomahawk, he didn't laugh...he encouraged another teen to stop arguing...he merely stood his ground against an aggressive ADULT. Was he being defiant, or was he nervous and attempting to appear cool about the drum being beaten so close to his face? I raised two boys...I know the look. I also know that nerves can prompt that look.
Had Nick Sandmann moved aside...Mr. Phillips would have chosen another MAGA hat wearing teen
Had Mr. Phillips turned and walked away...or chosen to beat his drum up the unblocked portion of steps of the Lincoln Memorial...there wouldn't have been a story at all.
The optics were striking. I too was initially pissed at Sandmann, but I held comment for a couple days.......the optics were just too perfect.
the only reason Sandmann and Phillips were eye to eye was because Sandmann was standing on a step. In my opinion, that is why Phillips chose him. Phillips is kinda tall and lanky, and would have towered over Sandmann if they were standing on the same level..........optics gone.
I know a tthing or too bout defiance, and this punk should have had a drum stick shoved up his nostril
I agree. That kid's smirk could be seen by a blind guy 2 counties over. If I had been as disrespectful as he was that day, I would be wearing orthopedic underwear because my Mom's foot would still be up my butt.
Regarding the Hebrew Israelites, I think most people who have seen the videos would like to give every one of them a smack up-side the head.
I'm with ya Sister Mary all the way.
What gets me about this discussion (if you want to call it that) is the worst thing I said was that the kid was an entitled brat. Not that he did anything else wrong. But Yikes.. apparently you can't call a kid an entitled brat. No wonder we have the society we have today.
Toxic masculinity......right?
I hate buzz terms. Let's just say that there are both men and women who are pretty darn toxic, correct?
Sure you can. But understand, it says more about you than it does him.
I beg your pardon...LOL
Absolutely correct. Forgot the s/ tag, apologies.
Did you ever notice,
that peoples eyes, don't lie very well...
cause , the window to ones soul, has a broken seal, probably due to that perverted Sea Lion, or perhaps, a Killer Whale, that doesn't have a bucket list to compare his too, N F he did, quite appear
Wait until they all get on their high horse about a kid that does something that irritates them....Re: David Hogg....I'll bet nobody here called him an entitled brat/s
Good Point. I totally forgot about that. Yeah they all seemed to pile on that kid, just for speaking his mind.
Not really. As I explained earlier, I live with and taught them.
Nope, it says this kid is an entitled brat.
Period.
Likely some did. But it sure as hell wasn't me. I can’t imagine what kids go through these days. School was always a safe place for me growing up. It was a safe place for my kids growing up......though school shootings were becoming more frequent. There is a special place in hell for ANYBODY who takes that security away or threatens a school.
ok, cool. Was waiting for you to weigh in.
I don't recall you being one of those who were irritated by Mr Hogg. You might have been irritated but you were quiet about it.
I had a safe childhood, also so I know what you're talking about
The events of that day are the only thing that matters.
I notice you don't mention Phillip's friend telling Sandmann to go back to Europe as Phillips walked up to him, banging a drum in face and not telling him what he was doing. A "peacemaker" doesn't beat a drum in someone's face without explanation. The combination of the two is aggressive in any situation. Sandmann handled it better than any kid could be expected to.
Also, you completely ignore Phillips lying to the media, that made this a viral story to begin with. Yes, the blame also goes to the media for simply accepting what this liar said without any evidence because it fit their preferred narrative.
He called the boys "beasts" who were attacking black men. He said they surrounded and threatened him. Nothing he said he was true, and was specifically designed to create a media firestorm.
Not exactly how it happened. Did you watch the new video? Phillips and Sandmann were already engaged when someone said something to the other Indian (we don't hear that so we can't judge the reaction).
Phillips was marching through. The only one who didn't get out of his way was Sandmann. IDK, I taught my kids to get out of the way of elders.
You mean with his face saying "go ahead old man, punch me.. I dare ya". Yes very well.
Here, Sean, you've got me. I am not sure what came first, the video or the story. I think the video came first, but yes Phillips made it sound like he thought he was in danger, which I don't buy. And yes the media made a non story into a story, but I said that way up on top, so please don't make it sound that I didn't address this.
Please find that for me. I never heard that before.
'He called the boys "beasts" who were attacking black men. He said they surrounded and threatened him. Nothing he said he was true, and was specifically designed to create a media firestorm.'
Here it is Perrie. I debunked that before but it appears they keep repeating it. Not true.
Last paragraph is bolded. Complete lie above.
Native American leader of Michigan: 'Mob mentality' in students was 'scary'
A diocese in Kentucky apologized on Saturday after videos emerged showing students from a Catholic boys' high school mocking Native Americans outside the Lincoln Memorial after a rally in Washington, D.C. AP
Correction: This story has been updated to clarify the original description of Nathan Phillips’ military service. Phillips is a Vietnam-era veteran who served in the U.S. Marine Corps Reserve from May 1972 to May 1976 and did not deploy to a war zone, according to a U.S. Marines spokesperson.
For years, Native American advocate Nathan Phillips of metro Detroit has been fighting for the rights of indigenous people.
On Friday, his battle gained national attention, as social media videos captured his standoff with a group of taunting Catholic school students in the nation's capital. The video of Phillips, peacefully drumming and singing, while surrounded by a hostile crowd illustrates the nation's political and racial tensions.
Speaking to the Free Press by phone, Phillips, 64, of Ypsilanti, explained what happened after 5 p.m. Friday during the Indigenous Peoples' March he was attending and spoke of his history working for the cause of Native American people.
He gave new details about an incident that sparked outrage and criticism from a range of groups.
Marine steps between "beast' and "prey"
Native American advocate Nathan Phillips, of Ypsilanti, Mich., sits for a portrait in Ypsilanti on May 2, 2015. Phillips gained national attention following a standoff between Phillips and a group of Catholic high school students went viral on Friday, January 18, 2019 in Washington, D.C. (Photo: Chris Stranad, Chris Stranad)
Prior to what is seen on the now-viral video, Phillips said he was in D.C. attending a Native American rally. Near the end of rally, he said he tried to keep the peace between a group of mostly white students attending a March for Life event and a gathering of about four black members of a religious group known as the Black Hebrew Israelites.
Phillips, a former Marine, said the incident started as a group of Catholic students from Kentucky were observing the Black Israelites talk, and started to get upset at their speeches. The Catholic group then got bigger and bigger, with more than 100 assembled at one point, he said.
"They witnessed these individuals on their soapbox saying what they had to say," Phillips said. "They didn't agree with it and got offended."
More on freep.com:
Catholic student responds: Our group was not hateful in Washington D.C. incident
School faces backlash after teens mob Native American veteran from Michigan at march
Then, things got heated.
"They were in the process of attacking these four black individuals," Phillip said. "I was there and I was witnessing all of this ... As this kept on going on and escalating, it just got to a point where you do something or you walk away, you know? You see something that is wrong and you're faced with that choice of right or wrong. "
Phillips said some of the members of the Black Hebrew group were also acting up, "saying some harsh things" and that one member spit in the direction of the Catholic students. "So I put myself in between that, between a rock and hard place," he said.
But then, the crowd of mostly male students turned their anger towards Phillips.
"There was that moment when I realized I've put myself between beast and prey," Phillips said. "These young men were beastly and these old black individuals was their prey, and I stood in between them and so they needed their pounds of flesh and they were looking at me for that."
Not surprised because it didn't happen.
Thanks, Tessy for clarifying that. I went looking for that info and now I understand why.
'OK I am going to say my piece about this story for the last time. I am going to lay this out plainly.
Fact: The Black Israelites were antagonistic and inciteful.
The mood at that spot was intense. I will give 90% of the general overall mood and unrest to the Black Israelites. We have enough of them in NYC to know what disgusting pigs and racists they are.
Fact: The kids were taunted by them.
I am sure they were quite jazzed by the insults being hurled by the Israelites.
Fact: Only the Indians had a permit to be there. They were there to do what they were doing.
It is irrelevant to the story if Nathan Philips lied about his service during Vietnam. The events of that day are the only thing that matters. He might have said that he heard stuff that he wasn't actually said or head coming from the Israelites. We know that some of the kids were making the Indian hand chop and that might have influenced the general vibe he was getting from the place and why there were some comments made back and forth between kids and some of the other Indians. That part is unclear. Nathan Philips may have felt threaten or not. He didn't look like he was, but again, we are not in his head.
Fact: Nathan Philips walked into the fray. His motivations are unknown other than he was the only one who had the right to be there.
Fact: Only Nick Sandman didn't move. His peers did. He smiled. The interpretation of the smile is what is at the crux of this.
I taught my kids to move for adults. The smile.. what did it mean?
My opinion:
It is a smirk and one of defiance. Chin forward, mouth closed, slight turn up of the corners of his mouth. I have seen this grin before from my daughters' peers and from substitute teaching in their school. In my opinion, it is entitled arrogance. My town is so famous for its entitled arrogance, so much so, that there have now been 3 movies and 1 TV show about it, so I am good at IDing it when I see it. I've seen it too much. Also, only entitled kids get PR firms and lawyers to save their asses when they come off looking bad. Take note: The kid smirking in the confrontation on the steps looks a heck of a lot different to the humble child we all saw in the interview. PR coaching does that.
That all being said, the worst thing you could say about the kid (without getting into his head) is that behaved confrontationally and rudely. The fact that this went viral is what caused this whole mess. The kid should have gotten a reprimand from his non-attentive teachers on site and that should have been the end of the story. The fact that it got this blown out of proportion is the ridiculous part. You can thank the internet and the media for that.'
Please quote me correctly:
I never said evil. I chose my words carefully.
So why are you directing this comment to me? I agree 100% with Perrie.
Did I say he had an evil smirk?
I believe I might have referred to him as a prick. Please correct me if I'm incorrect.
From Wikipedia:
"...they are not recognized as Jews by the greater Jewish community."
I assume everyone understands that they are not Jewish. With very little exception, Jews and Native Americans have always had a good mutual relationship.