Democrats' 'Green New Deal' is a Crazy New Deal that would be a disaster for us all
S E E D E D C O N T E N T
(or How to Miss the Point Entirely)
Rep. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, D-NY, has announced what is ostensibly called a Green New Deal. In typical fashion the 'unbiased' media has glommed onto the story as a vehicle for spreading their own biases and propaganda.
That misses the point entirely.
Ocasio-Cortez is directly challenging the old-guard leadership of the Democratic Party. The specific resolution is little more than appealing political pablum. Arguing over the details of the Green New Deal is pointless because the resolution contains very few details. The point of the Green New Deal resolution is not really about any of the details being argued by the media. The purpose of the Green New Deal resolution has gone over the heads of reporters, columnists, and pundits.
The announcement is really about challenging the Democratic Party to pursue big ideas, set lofty goals, and take large risks. Ocasio-Cortez challenges the old guard pragmatism within the Democratic Party. Ocasio-Cortez is laying planks for the 2020 party platform. The Green New Deal is a call for an end to Hillary Clinton style politics within the Democratic Party.
The politics of Ocasio-Cortez seems to have emerged from the Occupy Wall Street movement and Bernie Sanders' revolution. Time will tell if Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez is too large for the Democratic Party.
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I think Nancy Pelosi will need to throw more than shade to stop the insurgency within the Democratic Party. The revolution has started ...
No, you missed the point entirely. Money won't help you if the earth dies...
If the Planet Dies, It was meant to die !
Even going from Planes to the Horse Drawn Carriage (Horses Fart too though) or "Revamping" EVERY building in the friggin world, isn't gonna stop anything !
Yeah, who needs healthcare if Jesus is handing out immortality? FFS!
I have health care, and I've made sure I have health care, all by MY little LONESOME !
Only YOU, can prevent YOUR OWN Forest Fires !
My health care is covered 100% by my dear rich Uncle Sam. 20 years of military service that included two wars with service connected disabilities. I have MediCare primary with Tri Care for Life as my secondary. People like me drive progressive liberal leftist Democrat politicians in DC nuts because it is sacrosanct per the military and they cannot touch it. Was even worse during the Obama administration.
And alternative energy is not the answer. The chemistry of smelting and refining the metals and materials used to manufacture the equipment emits carbon dioxide. Smelting silicon dioxide to produce one kilogram of silicon will emit two kilograms of carbon dioxide, at the minimum. That's not denial, that's chemistry. Running the equipment on electricity supplied by solar panels won't help because reducing silicon dioxide to silicon requires using carbon to remove the oxygen that is emitted as carbon dioxide. If the oxygen is not removed from silicon dioxide, what is produced is glass (the first solar technology developed by humans).
Converting the energy grid to alternative sources would result in a huge spike in carbon dioxide emissions. That's because all the carbon dioxide is emitted before the manufactured equipment can generate electricity.
Alternative energy is all about the money. So far the proffered solutions to climate change have revolved around profitability, cost, monetary incentives, monetary disincentives, and economic impacts. All the proffered solutions have been about addressing the problem without interfering with consumer spending. Claiming that climate change has not been about the money requires denying reality.
The facts are that the quickest and cheapest way to lower carbon dioxide emissions is to leave all the switches in the OFF position more often. Consuming less energy does not cost anything. And energy that is not consumed cannot emit carbon dioxide.
Yes you should do everything in your power to help if you are so damn worried about the earth dying. I would suggest getting rid of your car, quit using electricity, stop using grocery stores...you know, cuz like, um like the world is going to end in twelve years.
I would say AOC is way out in left field, but would not be accurate. She is at least in the next county over!
Her problem is that she's made such an idiot of herself with silly statements and she's gone on record supporting every far left idea imaginable. The combination of those two means that now nobody takes her seriously, even if she were to come up with a workable idea. Which she hasn't. But in theory it could happen.
LOL. Yes in theory. Isn't that the theory that if an infinite number of monkeys were to type on an infinite number of typewriters, then eventually one will have written the bible, or was it the Declaration of Independence?
Not at all. What you have is an NT presentation of the neo-fascist party line concerning AOC. She is to be swiftboated, drowned in unsupported lies. She has not:
It is precisely because her policy proposals are doable that she is being attacked so massively.
It's a Big Lie: No one will debate her proposals. They will attack her, without justification, over and over and over and over...
I don't know that the odds are quite that long. Not quite, anyway.
But on present evidence, I'm not betting on her saying anything productive.
Translated... "people who stubbornly cling to sanity in the face of whackadoodle leftist fantasy".
She's not that important.
She is being mocked because she is behaving like a child and her proposals reinforce that.
They're also not going to debate her when she tries to outlaw meat, or fur coats, or tackle football, or leather shoes, or bank accounts over $1000, or any of the eco-nazi/OWS/batshit leftist ideas that regularly flow out of those morons.
They will laugh at her. And there is PLENTY of justification.
Thank you for the demonstration.
It is precisely because her policy proposals are doable that she is being attacked so massively.
It's a Big Lie: No one will debate her proposals. They will attack her, without justification, over and over and over and over..
Why did you address that to me? I didn't say it.
You said :
... in response to a post from Jack in which he said, " she's made such an idiot of herself ".
I don't pay too much attention to Jack, but I usually expect thought from you. You seemed to be agreeing with Jack, so I asked you about it.
My reply to you disappeared, but here it is again.
I was not agreeing with Jack, I was referring only to Jack's comment about a "theory" and asked it that theory was the one about the monkeys at typewriters. I was not referring to AOC at all.
that is a fun theory...
a million monkeys might be able to type shakespeare
but today's leftwing msm just authors pure crap.
OK.
What I saw was a follow-up to Jack's post, which certainly was about AOC.
Ocasio-Cortez is being taken seriously; otherwise there wouldn't be a need for a response. No one pays any attention to Maxine Waters except for entertainment value.
How Republicans react to Ocasio-Cortez is unimportant. Republicans have a vested interest in attacking any Democrat. The thing to watch is how Democrats react to Ocasio-Cortez. And that Democratic reaction is beginning to reveal a division within the party.
They sure were taking her seriously when she said to get in reps faces. The reps were all up in arms saying she promoted violence.
The only thing they take seriously is any threat to their power and their draconian views.
In my view, that is exactly what Ocasio-Cortez is intending to threaten. From what little I have seen so far, Ocasio-Cortez appears to be a grass-roots activist rather than a politician. I suppose we will see if or how soon her idealism will be corrupted by the political institution.
Welcome to the machine.
In fact, she could have a greater affect on the lives of those pissing and moaning and calling her stupid then they could ever have on hers.
Have no idea why the right wing is so scared of solar power and new, yet to be discovered forms of energy.
Cortez. At least she has some ideas beyond fear at the border, abortion politics and more tax cuts to the upper tiers.
IMO it isn't the right wing that is scared of the Green New Deal. Ocasio-Cortez declined the offer to be a member of the Democrat's climate change panel. That seems to suggest that the Green New Deal is about more than just climate change.
Pelosi names climate change panel, Ocasio-Cortez isn't on it
"Cortex declined the offer...……………." Which proves you did not see her interview and her reason why.
Yes, Ocasio-Cortez declined because of other panel and committee assignments.
So, why was Ocasio-Cortez the spokesperson for the Green New Deal? Apparently she knew she would not participate on the climate change panel when she announced the Green New Deal.
The Green New Deal uses climate change as a vehicle to challenge the old guard Democratic leadership to pursue big ideas, lofty goals, and take big risks. The Green New Deal is not about being pragmatic or incremental or picking low fruit. The challenge put forward is to think about 'winning' as being more than results.
Why what? Your point?
The point is that the Green New Deal was more about challenging Democratic leadership than it was about climate change.
No it isn't. And no it wasn't.
Democratic leadership is exploring many things. Standard voting procedures. Oversight. Green energy. Other items also.
GOP leadership is working on abortion, tax cuts, voter restrictions, border wall, deregulations. Etc.
The 'Green New Deal' is an initiative to move the nation away from fossil based energy and into newer, renewable and eventually less expensive energy sources.
Example: The first hand held calculators hit the markets with a price tag of almost $500. Today one can be purchased for $5.
Except for voter restrictions, which is a lie, the others are exactly what Americans actually care about.
Good for you.
Don't like pregnancy termination? Don't have one. At least have the decency to not force a woman or family to bear a child they do not want, do not need or can not afford.
Freedom and all that crap, right?
Yes....about 70% do not want abortion made illegal; 60% do not want a border wall; the country's evenly split on the whether Scumbag's greatest (and only) achievement so far -- on the approve/disapprove question; republicans haven't even made a convincing lie about voter fraud--losing that 50-46% in a 2016 poll even as Scumbag and Scumbag clone Kobach were trying to make it a front page lie almost daily. So, Republicans are on the wrong side of nearly every issue and that's why you saw what happened last Nov. (well, along with extreme distaste for Scumbag himself).
The Democratic leadership is focusing attention on pragmatic, incremental efforts to pick low hanging fruit. The idea is that those small results will can be claimed as political wins that will influence elections.
it's not possible to solve problems without goals. Small goals and small results won't solve big problems. Those small results only create an illusion of progress for political purposes. That's what big idea activism challenges.
Yes, Democrats can likely score political points. But their record of accomplishment will be a lie just as it has been in the past. The big problems still persist.
I don't understand.
You seem to be agreeing with the Dems' actions - they're progress. But you seem to be requiring them to do more...
What am I misunderstanding?
Where did I say I was not pro choice? You can be conservative and pro choice, especially if the mother is at risk or there are early signs of non survival deformities?
Your projection of something you know nothing of (there are probably many) was a big fail.
I have always known you as one of the more intelligent....wait, no...that wasn't you.
When you come out of the gate screaming "scumbag", your credibility went from zero to the negatives. Try again.....or better yet...don't.
Have no idea why the left wing wants to enslave the entire population.
This idiotic misrepresentation game is fun. Who's next?
"Enslave the entire population." ? ? Okay. Sure.
Well if we're all just spouting idiotic bullshit, that's almost as good as "scared of solar power", don't you think?
That earns a
and a 
I am actually more interested in the idea of energy production and having less of a footprint in how it is generated , I think a 10 year time frame for a zero emission footprint is out of reach, more like closer to 100 years . Reason I say that is with existing construction and production methods , the so called "green energy " today , is said to use more energy to create , than it produces.
some things that have to be considered other than cost is the suitability of any given site with the choices made so site surveys will need to be conducted to find the most suitable method , or combination of methods. Might be why for now I tend to think at this time it will for some time be a combination of all of the above types of methods to produce what is needed , mainly because none of the methods are completely ecologically or economically within reach or suitable for all areas.
It also raises any number of questions about regulation and what people will be subject to.
This is only true of ethanol which is why so many ethanol plants are shutting down. ETOH was never feasible no matter how much the corn growers loved it.
Used to own stock in ethanol plants. Did the research and sold it all.
I still find it amazing that people believe either of these two things to have been successful.
That's very true about Sanders, who I predict is not even going to get a "show" position in the primaries. But I think the OWS movement did get into the consciousness of many mainstream Americans and we see a revival of it from some of the way voters chose to chuck Rs out last Nov. One of the things Ds successfully campaigned on was the massive shift of wealth to the already wealthy and corporations by Scumbag's tax cut. It does poll well in general across the country. That's almost unheard of for a tax cut. Middle class Americans got it this time that this the the Rs favorite shell game.
Meant to write: It [tax cut] doesn't poll well.....
They got youth involved in the process. As a child of the sixties, I understand how much that's worth. SDS was me.
You can bet good money on something stupid falling out of AOC's mouth every time she opens it.
Must be another day ending in a "y".
You must have her inexplicably confused somehow with:
Not in the least confused.
I don't understand why you would think I am when the seed involves your golden girl.
Oh, that's right, I forgot. Sorry about that. I forgot you think "Unemployment is low because everyone is working two or three jobs" is witty, smart, and accurate.
When you think that, I am sure there is absolutely nothing that could fall out of her pie hole that you would EVER deem stupid.
The evidence (i.e., the compendium of all your comments) strongly says otherwise.
Only to those incapable of understanding and comprehension.
It something is confusing for you, perhaps I can clear it up for you.
I translate "fundamentalist" so maybe i can help. This is what's being said:
"You don't agree with me so you are wrong"
Hopefully that helps ......
You never fail to be funny at your own expense, tex.
Ah!!!
Sounds just about right!
Shocking, huh?
LOL!
If there is something you don't understand, perhaps I can help!
Why, yes, now that you bring it up, there is. i don't understand why you keep posting such BS garbage and expecting any normal person to not ridicule it.
Okay, get someone to explain it to you then.
It's about time that somebody talked about the elephant in the room and citizens united destroying democracy.
So multinational corporations now get to vote and sway U.S. elections?
Can you say the Koch brothers and serious dark money?
Screw this travesty of U.S. democracy!!!!!
Thanks to trump and those tea partiers, America is no longer safe from hard core Nazi type fascism.
Uh, yeah, that really has absolutely nothing to do with my post.
thanks for trying, I guess?
"There were fine people on both sides..."
Interesting seed. It trashes the GND... without ever stating what's actually in it...
Fact-free opinion, straight from Fox News!
Just in case there's anyone here who is interested in the actual content of the GND: There’s now an official Green New Deal. Here’s what’s in it.
IOW, SOP for rightwing know-nothings.
They would have to read it... and it's significantly longer than a bumper sticker.
That's why I chose this particular seed. The seed misses the point entirely. I wanted to use this to show that both sides are missing the point.
The GND is actually calling for a jobs program and uses infrastructure investments to create new markets and jobs. A lot of that infrastructure is in the private sector; real capitalists should be jumping for joy.
Seems like overkill to try and create thousands of new jobs when the job market is as tight as it is right now.
The auto industry transitioning from sedans to SUVs caused job loss. It's necessary to create new jobs to build SUVs for workers that had been building sedans. The labor market transitions from an old job that has gone away to a new job in a different market.
Transitioning away from fossil fuels will cause job loss. It's necessary to create new jobs in new markets for people who had been working in fossil fuels. Since the energy transition will take place locally; the new jobs will also replace old jobs locally. The disruption caused by energy transition could be managed to be less disruptive than has been the auto industry's transition from sedans to SUVs.
There are millions of underemployed people languishing in poor paying "service industry" jobs that would jump at better opportunies
rather than working at Whataburger or Target.
The biggest problem I see with the GND is an unreasonable time table of ten years. ( we've been working on Southern Border "fencing for 13 years )
Taking logical steps away from a finite source of energy to a bevy of renewable energy sources should be a 100 year plan.
Unfortunately, Americans do not think in long term goals like the Chinese.
AOC's impatience is unattainable. President Trump's national emergency is reflective of the same impatience.
Would you agree that Facebook has transformed the internet? How long did that transformation take?
But Facebook only provided a framework. The transformation happened because so many people got on board. All the Facebook users began expecting other parts of the internet to adopt that type of framework, too. And other parts of the internet wanted to attract users just as Facebook had. No one actually planned the transformation of the internet; it happened organically as use, expectations, and opportunities changed.
The point is that a transformation requires a framework that people are willing to accept, adopt, and use. Does the GND provide a transformative framework? I don't think so. But the GND has taken a more holistic approach to addressing climate change than most prior frameworks. IMO the GND is a step in the right direction.
Ask Ford and General Motors. They have stopped sedan production and plan to build more SUVs.
Agreed. It is the right direction.
About Facebook, not so sure, I no longer participate, nor do I use Google if I can help it.
I opted out.
Federal, state and local governments, as usual.
Funny that the right wing is acting like they are worried about Cortez taking over the Dem party, when trump has taken over the rep party.
I call that looking for something in others that has happened to themselves.
That's because it always looks worse when it is from the other side. And that works both ways.
If both parties were as perfect as they think they are, America would be in so much better shape, financially, in our use of our resources, and economic equality.
Sadly, neither party is worth the powder it takes to pop a firecracker.
Until both sides get back to the basics of what Congress is supposed to do, America and its people will continue to suffer at their hands, and mouths.
My opinion.
They are supposed to work for us yet plenty of them, once they get into office, think we work for them.
Then what's your solution?
Indeed! They seem to forget who pays their salary and pays for all the benefits they get with the job. Benefits that even those who pay their salary don't get for all the work they do to earn the money to pay their salary.
They treat the taxpayers and American people as a whole like sheep that will believe everything that comes out of their mouth, even when it is clearly a lie. They expect the American people to just accept it and keep on filling their pockets for them, when too many Americans and their families are doing without even enough money to feed their family or put a roof over their head.
With all politicians it's all about "ME ME ME! And to Hell with you. Just make sure my paycheck keeps coming on time, even if your don't."
The word Politician has always been a dirty word, but, never has it ever been so dirty as it is today.
"Dirty as it is today." ? ?
Does MAGA help?
Ehh....what does MEGA have to do with it?
There is not doable solution. The rational solution is for people to elect even halfway civil and reliable politicians that put America and its people FIRST. Second to their own pockets, and third to their own political party and fourth to their own religious beliefs.
However, in order for such politicians to be elected they first have to run.
And the American people need to know the difference between game players and those who have the qualifications for the position they are seeking.
Sadly, none of the above is likely to happen in my life time.
I get accused of being on the Left, and being a Democrat, when in fact I am neither. I am a former Republican who saw the party sink lower and lower into the swamp and could no longer support it. Now, I am not affiliated with any political party. There is not one party that I can honestly support. They are all slowly sinking into the swamp, some faster than others.
And unfortunately for America and its people I see no cure in the near future. There is no party without fault, and no party without guilt. All we have are lies and broken promises.
That is not what makes any country sustainable.
I talk to folk on a daily basis who don't see right against left and don't see conservative against liberal. Most folk have more than a bit of both in them (varying shades of gray) depending on the subject. This divisive nonsense that happens here is instigated.
So sad that so many Russian bots here try to divide us.
Indeed. However, it is not just the Russians. They are but one of the sub-cult that is attacking our country. And it is not that they are unknown by our government, as both sides of our own government are using them for their own agenda.
Unfortunately, it is the American people who are, and will, be the ones to suffer from their selfish party game playing. Until the American people decide to take back our country via our votes, there is no real solution that is doable.
Those who try to demean and denigrate the other party and refuse to keep an open mind to their own party's faults and guilt, will only continue to lead to more divisiveness among the people, just as our enemies wish to happen.
And there are those here who are more than willing to pave the way for them. On both sides.
They have no right to criticize the other side until they clean up their own backyard.
Worried? WORRIED?
BWAHAHAHAHA!!
hell, most right wingers HOPE she does take over the Democratic Party, or at least enjoys wide support for her more hare-brained schemes!
AOC is just a pup now but I look forward to great things from her, and us, when she learns how.
She's fairly good now, but with experience and help she could become great.
She accused of being stupid by the people who create a new level stupidity, ignorance and lying every day. She's made a couple of rookie and inconsequential mistakes but at 29 with her indomitable personality she's going to go a long way and that'll be good for the country.
Any politician who says green and does not address overpopulation is just talking
Would that be an environmentalist's right to choose?