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Ethiopian Airlines crash: FAA is resisting calls by aviation advocates to ground Boeing jets

  

Category:  Op/Ed

Via:  perrie-halpern  •  5 years ago  •  58 comments

 Ethiopian Airlines crash: FAA is resisting calls by aviation advocates to ground Boeing jets
"Had these accidents occurred in the United States, would we still be discussing this?" one former official said.

S E E D E D   C O N T E N T



By   Phil McCausland

The Federal Aviation Administration doubled down on its decision to allow airline carriers to continue operating the Boeing 737 Max aircraft in the United States after numerous aviation authorities across the globe decided to ground the jet series in response to an   Ethiopian Airlines crash that killed all 157 people   on board.

Aviation experts, consumer advocates and politicians on both sides of the aisle have called for the FAA to get the 737 Max 8 and Max 9 out of the skies while safety concerns are addressed.

But the federal agency stood strong in a statement on Tuesday night.

"Thus far, our review shows no systemic performance issues and provides no basis to order grounding the aircraft. Nor have other civil aviation authorities provided data to us that would warrant action," the FAA said in a statement, adding that it would act quickly if it identified any issues that affected the jet series' airworthiness.

This most recent crash of the new Boeing series comes less than six months after a   Lion Air   crash in Indonesia in October killed all 189 people on board.

Some industry leaders and consumer advocates say the 737 Max jets should be grounded until a thorough investigation of both crashes is completed.

Several countries and Norwegian Airlines ordered that the   planes be grounded until further notice , and the European Union Aviation Safety Agency, the lead European regulator, piled on Tuesday afternoon when it announced that it would suspend all flight operations of the aircraft on the continent.

The FAA, meanwhile, maintains that   U.S. airlines can still fly the jet model .

That has led to criticism of the FAA for not taking more concrete action.

"There’s been very little attention that has been paid in our country to the large loss of life in both of these accidents," said James Hall, a transportation safety expert and former chairman of the National Transportation Safety Board. "Had these accidents occurred in the United States, would we still be discussing this or would there be more effective action from our regulator and one of the largest air manufacturers in the world?"

Rep. Daniel Ewell, D-N.C., the chairman of the Appropriations Subcommittee on Transportation, Housing, and Urban Development, sent a letter to FAA Acting Administrator Daniel Ewell on Tuesday demanding further answers and transparency around the agency's decisionmaking.

It "appears that the FAA is out of step with other aviation safety organizations around the world," Ewell said.

190311-boeing-737-max-8-airplane-cs-936a An American Airlines Boeing 737 Max 8 lands at LaGuardia Airport in Queens, New York, on March 11, 2019. Drew Angerer / Getty Images

The FAA reported that 74 jets of Boeing series are flying in the U.S. and almost 400 are operational across the globe. Two of the largest U.S. carriers, American Airlines and Southwest Airlines, operate dozens of the aircraft within the United States.

The two airliners maintain that the jet series is safe, but a lack of transparency around their convictions has drawn criticism from consumer advocates and politicians.

"Telling the public that the airplane is airworthy, as the FAA has done, without offering further explanation, does far too little to relieve the uncertainty and fear created by these two tragedies," William McGee, aviation adviser for Consumer Reports, said. "While the investigators continue their work, the government and airlines should put safety first."

The Association of Flight Attendants-CWA also called for the FAA to ground the aircraft, though the union's president, Sara Nelson, added that the public should not jump to conclusions.

"This is about public confidence in the safety of air travel," Nelson said. "The United States has the safest aviation system in the world, but Americans are looking for leadership in this time of uncertainty. The FAA must act decisively to restore the public faith in the system."

There was bipartisan agreement on this issue as 2020 presidential contender Sen. Elizabeth Warren, D-Mass., and Sen. Mitt Romney, R-Utah, have said the FAA should reverse its decision and ground the planes until consumer safety concerns are addressed.

"Today, immediately, the FAA needs to get these planes out of the sky," Warren said in a statement that noted that the jet series is a major driver of Boeing profits.

Hall, who said he would not step foot onto one of the jets, emphasized that the agency should be concerned because it is the one that certified the aircraft series as safe.

Safety is key to credibility in the aviation world and is the reason for the industry's continued success, Hall said, noting that there had been zero accidents for numerous years in the U.S.

“They ought to take note that one of the most respected aviation authorities in the world — the [United Kingdom's] Civil Aviation Authority — is recommending the aircraft be grounded," Hall added. "Your reputation is something you ought to protect."


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Perrie Halpern R.A.
Professor Principal
1  seeder  Perrie Halpern R.A.    5 years ago

No way would I board any of these planes until those black boxes are analyzed and I am horrified the FAA has not grounded these planes.  

 
 
 
Buzz of the Orient
Professor Expert
2  Buzz of the Orient    5 years ago

What it comes down to is whether the crashes were due to the aircraft, the pilots, or the maintenance staff and procedures. 

 
 
 
Split Personality
Professor Guide
2.1  Split Personality  replied to  Buzz of the Orient @2    5 years ago

These planes were both physically "brand new". with only 350 delivered to date since mid 2017.

The software appears to be either written wrong  or the pilots are not sufficiently versed in how to address the nuances of the new software.

 
 
 
Krishna
Professor Expert
2.1.1  Krishna  replied to  Split Personality @2.1    5 years ago

Apparently there's a glitch in the software. Here's what happens:

The plane takes off at a fairly steep angle. After a short time the plane is put on auto-pilot and that software kicks in. But what happens is either one of these two things:

1. In most cases everything is OK. Apparently one of two things occur in these cases:  either the software works well so there's no problem. OR in some cases it cases it makes the planes nose point down dangerously -- and alert pilots then disable the auto-pilot and everything is OK.

2. In the two recorded crashes so far (over 300 people died) the same thing happened-- as the plane was climbing it was put on auto-pilot. Then the plane started to dive-- but the pilots neglected to disable the auto-pilot.

 
 
 
Krishna
Professor Expert
2.1.2  Krishna  replied to  Krishna @2.1.1    5 years ago

On the news tonight I saw many more countries refused to let this model plane fly. Which  at least for now is the smart thing to do. Interestingly, at last report, our FAA still insisted that there was nothing wrong with these planes.

Which seems a bit strange....

All the details aren't in yet, but my guess is that there's a distinct possibility of Trump being in cahoots with the CEO of Boeing-- who in all probability has convinced Trump to get the FAA to say these (Boeing) planes are OK.

At this point that is speculation on my part-- but details will emerge soon . . . 

 
 
 
Split Personality
Professor Guide
2.1.4  Split Personality  replied to  Krishna @2.1.1    5 years ago
but the pilots neglected to disable the auto-pilot.

Exactly.

But as you probably heard, first Canada grounded the planes,

now the US is following suit, "as soon as they have landed".

 
 
 
Split Personality
Professor Guide
2.1.5  Split Personality  replied to    5 years ago

Well you have to admit, there is stiff competition when it comes to conspiracy theories.

 
 
 
Krishna
Professor Expert
2.1.7  Krishna  replied to    5 years ago
this problem was exacerbated by Trump's shotdown.

Correct.

 
 
 
bugsy
Professor Participates
2.1.8  bugsy  replied to    5 years ago
How many inane conspiracy theories can you get into one sentence.

And when +he does give the word to ground the jets, libs will cry that he is keeping people from going home.

 
 
 
Split Personality
Professor Guide
2.1.9  Split Personality  replied to  Krishna @2.1.1    5 years ago

A pilot friend says the only way to disable the new system is to remove 2 circuit breakers in the entry corridor - which a seated pilot or copilot cannot reach easily.

 
 
 
Krishna
Professor Expert
2.1.10  Krishna  replied to  Krishna @2.1.2    5 years ago

On the news tonight I saw many more countries refused to let this model plane fly. Which  at least for now is the smart thing to do. Interestingly, at last report, our FAA still insisted that there was nothing wrong with these planes.

Which seems a bit strange....

All the details aren't in yet, but my guess is that there's a distinct possibility of Trump being in cahoots with the CEO of Boeing-- who in all probability has convinced Trump to get the FAA to say these (Boeing) planes are OK. 

Update, 3/20/2019:

Capt. Sullenberger on the FAA and Boeing: ‘Our credibility as leaders in aviation is being damaged’.The ‘Miracle on the Hudson’ pilot says the Boeing 737 Max controversy is ‘unprecedented’ and an ‘ugly saga’

For too many years, the FAA has not been provided budgets sufficient to ensure appropriate oversight of a rapidly growing global aviation industry. Staffing has not been adequate for FAA employees to oversee much of the critically important work of validating and approving aircraft certification. Instead, much of the work has been outsourced by designating aircraft manufacturer employees to do the work on behalf of the FAA.

This, of course, has created inherent conflicts of interest, when employees working for the company whose products must be certified to meet safety standards are the ones doing much of the work of certifying them.

To make matters worse, there is too cozy a relationship between the industry and the regulators. And in too many cases, FAA employees who rightly called for stricter compliance with safety standards and more rigorous design choices have been overruled by FAA management, often under corporate or political pressure.

(Cont'd)

 
 
 
Krishna
Professor Expert
3  Krishna    5 years ago

There have been reports that for a while now some pilots have reported that there is a glitch in the software. Apparently in all those cases, when the plane was put on autopilot during take-off, the nose started to point down. Then those pilots all shutoff auto-pilot and everything was OK.

There have also been reports that there were talks with Boeing to create a software fix, a while back. Boeing was either resisting the idea-- or there were disagreements as to what the soon to be redesigned software would do. The talks were beginning to make some progress-- and then Trump shut-down the gov't, so the talks stopped (for. IIRC, it was 5 weeks?). 

This is a rough outline of some of the things that I have come across. I'm not certain of any of this and I may have gotten some details wrong. But my guess is that we will find out more within the next few days....

 
 
 
Buzz of the Orient
Professor Expert
4  Buzz of the Orient    5 years ago

Question:  Could the software designer be charged with Criminal Negligence leading to Death?, or at the very least added into a civil lawsuit against Boeing, the airlines, and the pilots who failed to react correctly?

 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
5  Tessylo    5 years ago

"Airplanes are becoming far too complex to fly," President Donald Trump tweeted on Tuesday. "Pilots are no longer needed, but rather computer scientists from MIT. I see it all the time in many products. Always seeking to go one unnecessary step further, when often old and simpler is far better. Split second decisions are needed, and the complexity creates danger. All this cost for very little gain."

MORON

Any words of sympathy for the 157 dead?

 
 
 
Kavika
Professor Principal
6  Kavika     5 years ago

When I was still working (before retirement) I flew very very often. Most of my flights were international and the three airlines that I used the most were British Airways, Qantas and Singapore Airlines, three of the safest airlines in the world. 

I read yesterday where Singapore grounded all of their 737 MAX....I don't know if British and Qantas flew that model. 

To be on the safe side I believe that the US airlines should ground their MAX planes.  

Here is a list of countries/airlines that have grounded the 737 MAX.

 
 
 
SteevieGee
Professor Silent
7  SteevieGee    5 years ago

I, for one, am glad that I don't have any flights booked right now.  Trump doesn't think the FAA is worth much but did you notice that he didn't fly anywhere during the shutdown?

 
 
 
1stwarrior
Professor Participates
7.2  1stwarrior  replied to  SteevieGee @7    5 years ago

I know you don't remember, but he was the one still in DC while all the Congress people were in the islands or at home.

 
 
 
Split Personality
Professor Guide
7.2.1  Split Personality  replied to  1stwarrior @7.2    5 years ago

Oh , I know the idea of grandstanding oh too well - been divorced several times, lol.

The poor dear stayed home alone in the WH for several days when he knew very well that the opposition all left DC and had nothing to gain until noon of January 3rd.

Politics 101.

 
 
 
Buzz of the Orient
Professor Expert
7.3  Buzz of the Orient  replied to  SteevieGee @7    5 years ago

I really don't intend to ever fly again.  At my age and medical condition I intend to remain in China, and the super-fast trains are really comfortable and a great way to travel around the country.

 
 
 
It Is ME
Masters Guide
8  It Is ME    5 years ago

"Thus far, our review shows no systemic performance issues and provides no basis to order grounding the aircraft. Nor have other civil aviation authorities provided data to us that would warrant action," the FAA said in a statement, adding that it would act quickly if it identified any issues that affected the jet series' airworthiness."

Indonesia and Ethiopia better get on the ball then, to prove the FAA wrong !

Car manufacturers don't pull EVERYTHING off the road "Immediately", if a few folks have Car issues !

 
 
 
Split Personality
Professor Guide
8.1  Split Personality  replied to  It Is ME @8    5 years ago
Car manufacturers don't pull EVERYTHING off the road "Immediately", if a few folks have Car issues !

Well first of all the auto industry has a terrible record of fixing problems as far as morality vs the almighty dollar, going back to the Ford Pinto gas tank issues.

Car deaths are usually in very low numbers spread out over many accidents and years, before the government and public pressure bring about for recalls.

Airplanes for the most part are carrying hundreds of people at a time per accident,

hence we need faster action.

It appears to be leaning more towards pilot training/error when MASC attempts to put the nose down during a steep angle of attack during takeoff,

and the FAA via Mr Trump has just grounded the remaining US planes.

 
 
 
It Is ME
Masters Guide
8.1.1  It Is ME  replied to  Split Personality @8.1    5 years ago

Numbers are numbers !

2017 (automobile) = 105 deaths per day for car accidents. Just because it's spread out all over the country, doesn't make it better, although....SOME....will try to make it seem better !

 
 
 
Split Personality
Professor Guide
8.1.2  Split Personality  replied to  It Is ME @8.1.1    5 years ago

And the reasons for those deaths are all mechanical failures?  All by the same manufacturer?  All driven by trained professionals?

No weather, alcohol or smart phones involved?

Your first premise of comparing auto manufacturing to Boeing, or driving a car versus flying a jet airliner isn't fair is it?

Will you accept a future automobile that uses AI to "protect" you by taking over the driving

when it thinks you are endangering yourself or others?

So as long as we are comparing "apples to watermelons" lets look at it this way.

How safe is flying?

Statistically speaking, flying on a commercial airliner is the safest form of transport there is, according to the US National Safety Council.

There are a range of estimates out there, but based on its analysis of US Census data , it puts the odds of dying as a plane passenger at 1 in 205,552. That compares with odds of 1 in 4,050 for dying as a cyclist; 1 in 1,086 for drowning, and 1 in 102 for a car crash.

That’s because alongside technological improvements to aircraft over the decades, the whole system of international air travel is carefully regulated .

...

The Canadian-based International Air Transport Association (IATA) represents 290 airlines (or 82 per cent of global air traffic). It says the five-year average from 2012 has been 75 accidents a year, (almost 11 of them with fatalities) per 37.3 million yearly flights. That’s an average of 315 people dying a year in plane crashes over the past five years. But in 2017, there were only 19 deaths.

...

Those statistics also reveal something that Ms Negroni said is little understood: even if you are unfortunate enough to be in an air accident, you are likely to survive it.

“The number the US National Transport Safety Bureau gives out is that 95 per cent of all accidents have survivors, which is the opposite of what people say.”

 
 
 
Krishna
Professor Expert
8.2  Krishna  replied to  It Is ME @8    5 years ago

Thus far, our review shows no systemic performance issues and provides no basis to order grounding the aircraft.

Breaking news

As the Boeing 737 MAX 8 planes face airspace bans across the world due to safety fears following two deadly crashes, more news has emerged of pilots struggling to control the aircraft.

Pilots on at least two US flights reported autopilot systems in use on the 737 MAX 8 seemed to cause their planes to tilt downwards and lose altitude suddenly.

The pilot reports were filed last year in a database compiled by Nasa. They are voluntary safety reports and do not publicly reveal the names of pilots, the airlines or the location of the incidents.

I have seen reports indicating that more than two pilots have reported the same thing-- apparently there were five.  

(I've seen several such reports from different sources-- don't remember where I saw the number of 5, but will post a link when I have time to look for it).

 
 
 
Split Personality
Professor Guide
8.2.1  Split Personality  replied to  Krishna @8.2    5 years ago

They have been reporting 5 on TV news.

 
 
 
Krishna
Professor Expert
8.2.2  Krishna  replied to  Split Personality @8.2.1    5 years ago

They have been reporting 5 on TV news.

And remember-- those reports were voluntary-- its possible that there were other such incidents that pilots didn't bother to report.

 
 
 
Split Personality
Professor Guide
8.2.3  Split Personality  replied to  Krishna @8.2.2    5 years ago

They actually report to NASA on a online forum, anonymously if they wish.

 
 
 
Krishna
Professor Expert
8.3  Krishna  replied to  It Is ME @8    5 years ago

Thus far, our review shows no systemic performance issues and provides no basis to order grounding the aircraft. Nor have other civil aviation authorities provided data to us that would warrant action," the FAA said in a statement, adding that it would act quickly if it identified any issues that affected the jet series' airworthiness."

Indonesia and Ethiopia better get on the ball then, to prove the FAA wrong !

Car manufacturers don't pull EVERYTHING off the road "Immediately", if a few folks have Car issues !

Update, 3/15:

U.S. Congress wants to know why the FAA waited so long to ground Boeing 737 jets

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - Congress plans to scrutinize why the United States waited so many days to ground all Boeing Co 737 MAX jets involved in Sunday's crash in Ethiopia as other countries and airlines acted more quickly.

For decades, the United States has led the world in aviation safety, often setting standards that were later adopted by other countries. The agency came under heavy criticism from U.S. lawmakers and others who questioned why the FAA waited so long to ground the Boeing 737 MAX. ( Cont'd... )

 
 
 
It Is ME
Masters Guide
8.3.1  It Is ME  replied to  Krishna @8.3    5 years ago

Based on reports now coming out, it would seem it was a "Pilot" issue !

 
 
 
Split Personality
Professor Guide
8.3.2  Split Personality  replied to  It Is ME @8.3.1    5 years ago

Investigators at the crash site of the doomed Ethiopian Airlines flight have found new evidence that points to another connection to the earlier disaster involving the same Boeing jet.

The evidence, a piece of the Boeing 737 Max 8 jet that crashed in Ethiopia last weekend killing 157 people, suggests that the plane’s stabilizers were tilted upward, according to two people with knowledge of the recovery operations. At that angle, the stabilizers would have forced down the nose of the jet, a similarity with the Lion Air crash in October.

Although the crash investigations are still in the early phases, the new evidence potentially indicates that the two planes both had problems with a newly installed automated system on the 737 Max jet intended to prevent a stall.

This evidence ultimately contributed to American regulators’ decision to ground the 737 Max this week, according to the two people who spoke on the condition of anonymity. The Federal Aviation Administration said it had found physical evidence from the Ethiopian crash that, along with satellite tracking data, suggested similarities between the two crashes.

As the investigations continue, Boeing has also been racing to finish a software update for the 737 Max aircraft, which is expected by April. Boeing and the Federal Aviation Administration have continued to stand by the safety of the plane. Yet Boeing’s update will modify features of the jet around the automated system that investigators have suggested might have played a role in the Lion Air crash.

A pilot friend disagrees with one thing said earlier about the ease of which pilots can override the autopilot software.

According to him, 2 circuit breakers must be removed form an entry corridor panel, which a seated pilot cannot reach.

 
 
 
It Is ME
Masters Guide
8.3.3  It Is ME  replied to  Split Personality @8.3.2    5 years ago
A pilot friend disagrees with one thing said earlier about the ease of which pilots can override the autopilot software. According to him, 2 circuit breakers must be removed form an entry corridor panel, which a seated pilot cannot reach.

Reports by other pilots say there is an On-Off switch pilots can use to switch off the "Autopilot" …. within easy reach !

In one report, an airline captain said that immediately after putting the plane on autopilot, the co-pilot called out "Descending," followed by an audio cockpit warning, "Don't sink, don't sink!"
The captain immediately disconnected the autopilot and resumed climbing.

 
 
 
Split Personality
Professor Guide
8.3.4  Split Personality  replied to  It Is ME @8.3.3    5 years ago

I saw that earlier also and I don't think this guy flies the little planes - he only flies the 4 engine monsters

so he might not be the best resource.

 
 
 
Kavika
Professor Principal
11  Kavika     5 years ago

U.S. pilots complained about Boeing 737 Max 8 months before Ethiopia crash

"I am left to wonder: What else don't I know?" one pilot wrote in a complaint about the Boeing 737 Max 8.
 
 
 
Split Personality
Professor Guide
11.1  Split Personality  replied to  Kavika @11    5 years ago

It will, in part, end up being the pilot's fault for having the audacity to try to fly an AI airplane.

 
 
 
Krishna
Professor Expert
11.2  Krishna  replied to  Kavika @11    5 years ago

From that article:

Pilots voiced safety concerns about the Boeing 737 Max 8 to federal authorities months before the fatal Ethiopian Air crash, The Dallas Morning News reports. At least five complaints were reportedly found about the model in a federal database, all of them concerning a “safety mechanism” which was cited in the preliminary investigative reports of the Lion Air plane crash in Indonesia that killed 189 late last year.

More specifically, the complaints reportedly referenced issues pertaining to a takeoff “autopilot system” and situations where the plane is “nose-down” while trying to gain altitude. One pilot reportedly wrote that it was “unconscionable” that Boeing and federal authorities allowed pilots to fly the planes without fully describing how the 737 Max 8 was different than other planes.

“The fact that this airplane requires such jury-rigging to fly is a red flag,” the same pilot wrote. U.S. regulators have mandated that Boeing upgrade the plane's software by April, but have not ordered the planes to be grounded—unlike China, Australia and the European Union

 
 
 
Split Personality
Professor Guide
12  Split Personality    5 years ago

And the answer is......

Modifying an existing airframe, just like modifying the software on a Windows PC, almost always has unintended consequences.

This article makes a great case for starting a clean replacement without all of the inherent flaws that cannot be overcome on the 737.

 
 

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