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Is There Method To "the left's" Madness ?

  

Category:  Op/Ed

By:  john-russell  •  5 years ago  •  65 comments

Is There Method To "the left's" Madness ?
The gamble of the left argument is that if the Democratic nominee is a "progressive" with policy proposals to the left of the mainstream, young people will come out and vote in numbers never before seen for that progressive candidate. Numbers that will more than make up for any loss of moderates , centrists or independents.

Back in 2016 Democrats were faced with a fork in the road. Bernie Sanders, a self avowed democratic socialist was running for the party nomination on a platform of medicare for all, free college for all, a $15 per hour national minimum wage, and other "leftist" policies. The other road was the more traveled one following Hillary Clinton. At the time, many Democrats thought the more prudent thing to do was nominate Clinton because we knew that Trump was a human and governmental disaster in the making, and Clinton was better poised to beat Trump than a "socialist" would be. As it turned out Clinton lost, and Trump has been a disaster. Realistically, Sanders end result wouldn't have been any worse, and may have been better. We will never know. 

I do remember at the time the progressive celebrity activist, actress Susan Sarandon , speaking for some on the left when she said that she would rather see Trump win than Clinton because if Trump was president it would speed up the "revolution" from the left but if Clinton won it would be the same old thing in Washington. 

Now we are two years into Trump and the next election is on the distant horizon. The Democrats are said to be "split" as to whether it will be easier to beat trump with a "centrist" or with a progressive (what the right wing calls "socialist"). 

The theory behind choosing a "progressive" as the Democratic candidate is an interesting one, in that it could present centrist Democrats and independents with a dilemma - should they vote for a "left" of center candidate like a Warren or a sanders, were they the nominee, or vote for the abhorrent but ineffectual Trump?  Presumably this would be a tough choice for an unknown number of "moderates". 

So, what is the left's response to this dilemma?  It is that nominating a centrist like Biden or Bloomberg or Kloubuchar or Booker, or maybe even Harris, will not excite young people who will then stay home , again , in the 2020 presidential election. 

The gamble of the left argument is that if the Democratic nominee is a "progressive" with policy proposals to the left of the mainstream, young people will come out and vote in numbers never before seen for that progressive candidate. Numbers that will more than make up for any loss of moderates , centrists or independents.

It is an interesting theory, but one that has never been tested in a national election. We know that young people support progressive policies,  but will they vote for them at a level that will make up the difference from moderates who either stay home or in extreme cases even vote for Trump? 

That is the roll of the dice facing the Democrats this year and next year. I think it is possible that a progressive could win the presidential election, but maybe we would be more sure of getting rid of the plague of Trump with a more centrist Democratic candidate. 

Most people want to get rid of Trump, I think. 


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JohnRussell
Professor Principal
1  author  JohnRussell    5 years ago

Another consideration is an even more practical one. What if you get a Warren into the White House, but without the Congress behind her? She would be a symbol of a progressive victory but without the effectiveness. This is why progressivism must be built from the ground up, so when we do get a president of "change" they will be able to get their policies passed. 

 
 
 
The Magic 8 Ball
Masters Quiet
1.3  The Magic 8 Ball  replied to  JohnRussell @1    5 years ago
Numbers that will more than make up for any loss of moderates , centrists or independents.

actually, no.

but I like that you think that way.

Is There Method To "The Left's" Madness ?

no, they are just mad

cheers :)

 
 
 
Nerm_L
Professor Expert
2  Nerm_L    5 years ago

The OP kinda points to one of the big problems that Democrats are going to need to solve.  Democrats nominated Hillary Clinton, independents did not.  If Democrats want to appeal to independents then the primaries need to be opened to allow more participation by independents.  If more voters have a voice in selecting the Democratic nominee then those voters are more likely to support the candidate in the general election.

More Democrats are becoming independent voters just as has happened with Republicans.  Independents leaning toward a party is not the same thing as party loyalty. Independents are not Democrats by choice which means they don't care about loyalty to party brand.  Party brands are no longer enough to maintain voter loyalty.  Party loyalty is a thing of the past and is not going to return.

 
 
 
Buzz of the Orient
Professor Expert
3  Buzz of the Orient    5 years ago

“If you're not a liberal at twenty you have no heart, if you're not a conservative at forty you have no brain.”  (Sir Winston Churchill)

"...medicare for all, free college for all, a $15 per hour national minimum wage, and other "leftist" policies."

In my opinion, that may be attractive to a person who thinks with their heart, but I think that a person who thinks with their brain is going to wonder where the money is going to come from to pay for all that.

There is another factor that would work against the Democrats that may not have been quite so prominent previously but will most likely have some effect at election time, which might not have shown up at the recent midterms because it was not exposed, and that is the effect antisemitism will have among the voters, made clearly more of an issue in that party now.  And with religion being a factor, Pew Research indicates that about 25% of Americans are Evangelical Christians, and Bernie Sanders is not exactly pro-Israel, whereas Trump has proven himself in that respect.

Personally, I think that by running a progressive candidate, the Democrats will be losers.

 
 
 
The Magic 8 Ball
Masters Quiet
3.1  The Magic 8 Ball  replied to  Buzz of the Orient @3    5 years ago
“If you're not a liberal at twenty you have no heart, if you're not a conservative at forty you have no brain.”  (Sir Winston Churchill)

actually, that statement is not as divisive as one might suggest.

it simply points out that liberals continue to grow up long past college.

if that was not the case there would be no conservatives at all.

we all start out led by emotions. but as we grow up, we learn better.

it is easy to be liberal when one is young and has nothing.

but after a decade or so of hard work and success, people tend to want to keep what they have earned.

a conservative is just an older, smarter, and wiser breed of liberal.  


another common misconception is

"the young will change the world." 

but, they will not be young when they do it.

us old fuks used to be young and we are now changing the world

when today's young are old? it will be their turn. but not until then.


and sorry about the double post. hit the wrong box below.

cheers :)

 
 
 
XXJefferson51
Senior Guide
3.2  XXJefferson51  replied to  Buzz of the Orient @3    5 years ago

 
 
 
Buzz of the Orient
Professor Expert
3.2.1  Buzz of the Orient  replied to  XXJefferson51 @3.2    5 years ago

China blocks YouTube, Google, Facebook and Twitter, so I would appreciate knowing what it is you posted.

 
 
 
Buzz of the Orient
Professor Expert
3.2.2  Buzz of the Orient  replied to  XXJefferson51 @3.2    5 years ago

To Keep America Great:

Since you will not tell me what the YouTube that you directed to me, that you must know I cannot open, is about I will flag it and ask for it to be deleted.

 
 
 
Trout Giggles
Professor Principal
3.3  Trout Giggles  replied to  Buzz of the Orient @3    5 years ago

trmp is "pro-Israel" as long as that policy continues to make him money

 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
3.3.1  Tessylo  replied to  Trout Giggles @3.3    5 years ago

He is only for anything that makes him money.  

 
 
 
Buzz of the Orient
Professor Expert
3.3.2  Buzz of the Orient  replied to  Trout Giggles @3.3    5 years ago

Ah, THAT'S why you have so much knowledge about the movies.  I didn't realize we had another SWAMI on the site, capable of reading the future.

crystalBall1.jpg

Since you're good at it, I would really appreciate it if you would send me a private note with the name of the team that will win the World Series this year.  Oh, and since you have the knowledge you profess, how DOES one make money for being pro-Israel.  It's common knowledge here that I'm pro-Israel, so why am I so poor?

 
 
 
Buzz of the Orient
Professor Expert
3.3.3  Buzz of the Orient  replied to  Buzz of the Orient @3.3.2    5 years ago

Waiting for an answer....

th?id=OIP.yT1A9jsucb9WVy3OulggygHaGn&pid=Api&rs=1&p=0

 
 
 
Tacos!
Professor Guide
7  Tacos!    5 years ago
We know that young people support progressive policies

I wonder which policies they're thinking of with this claim. Simply slapping the term "progressive" onto what is really a socialist policy - or even one that's just looney tunes - doesn't make it progressive. There are plenty of ways to be progressive that don't involve crushing individual liberty or throwing more taxpayer money at a problem.

 
 
 
luther28
Sophomore Silent
8  luther28    5 years ago

Is There Method To "the left's" Madness ?

At this point it would appear not, no one seems to have a path forward. Perhaps if they concentrated on a concrete plan ( and the means to achieve such a plan) rather than chasing Mr. Trumps and their own tails they may actually find a method, but until such a time it is blah, blah, blah.

 
 
 
It Is ME
Masters Guide
9  It Is ME    5 years ago

"Safe Spaces" have created "Numb" Brains needing a leader to tell them what not to and what to do !

The ADULT "Youth" of today...… jrSmiley_94_smiley_image.png 's (didn't want to use the actual word) jrSmiley_9_smiley_image.gif

 
 
 
cms5
Freshman Quiet
10  cms5    5 years ago

Just another game of identity politics. Young voters = free, free, free. Naive. No need to explain where the money will come from to pay for all of the free stuff...or tell them the rich people in this Nation will pay for it all!

Forget about the centrists and moderates...let them fend for themselves. Don't worry about independents...they have minds of their own and use them accordingly.

There is a 'method' - identity politics didn't work in 2016 but go ahead and give it another shot in 2020.

 
 
 
Perrie Halpern R.A.
Professor Principal
11  Perrie Halpern R.A.    5 years ago

Millennials like to talk the talk, but when it comes to getting out the vote, they don't. Heck, they couldn't even get a woman elected. 

The Dems better get their act together. There is no way middle America will vote for Bernie. And the number game is that they need the swing states, the moderates, and independents and even some Republicans and Biden appeals to those. 

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
11.1  Texan1211  replied to  Perrie Halpern R.A. @11    5 years ago
Millennials like to talk the talk, but when it comes to getting out the vote, they don't. Heck, they couldn't even get a woman elected.

How true that is. Some act as though millennials will decide the election. The turnout numbers are simply to low.

The Dems better get their act together. There is no way middle America will vote for Bernie. And the number game is that they need the swing states, the moderates, and independents and even some Republicans and Biden appeals to those.

I think Biden's window has closed. being even accused of such things is enough to end his candidacy.

Personally, I believe Biden is just one of those touch-feely people who do not mean any harm and don't intend anything sexual by touching or hugging. Some folks are just like that, and there is nothing wrong with that as long as the people on the receiving end don't have a problem with it. Of course, the time to say you have a problem with it is when it happens, not years or decades later.

I'm thinking it will be like this for another 10 years or so, and then people will begin to question the motives and lack of reporting such incidents if the "victims" haven't spoken up.

 
 
 
Perrie Halpern R.A.
Professor Principal
11.1.1  Perrie Halpern R.A.  replied to  Texan1211 @11.1    5 years ago
I think Biden's window has closed. being even accused of such things is enough to end his candidacy.

I agree with everything you said, but that. I think there is just not enough out there to do him damage. I find it sad that they left is willing to eat their own. Talk about self-destructive. 

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
11.1.2  Texan1211  replied to  Perrie Halpern R.A. @11.1.1    5 years ago
I think there is just not enough out there to do him damage.

I can see your point, but I believe the damage is already done,. Just being accused is more then enough in today's political world.

That doesn't make it right, or fair, but it sure seems to be the case.

 
 
 
Ender
Professor Principal
11.1.3  Ender  replied to  Texan1211 @11.1.2    5 years ago

I actually agree with you. The damage has already been done and he hasn't even thrown his hat in the ring.

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
11.2  author  JohnRussell  replied to  Perrie Halpern R.A. @11    5 years ago

Well, you sort of highlight the issue. If you listen to leaders in the "leftist" grouping ,such as The Young Turks, (why are TYT leaders?  Well, Cenk Ugyar and company started "Justice Democrats" the activist group that sponsored Alexandra Ocasio Cortez, and other candidates coming to the fore) the reason that young people don't vote is because they never are presented with candidates to their liking. Yes Sanders was to their liking, and lost, but you could say that the "progressive" movement has only grown and evolved in the past 3 years. I have a niece in San Antonio who liked Bernie Sanders and voted for him in their primary, but was not active. Two years later she was a volunteer for Beto O'Rourke in the senate race. (She has since gone back to Sanders as her choice because Beto "accepts corporate money". I think she heard it on The Young Turks. She is 23 years old this week. 

There is no doubt that depending on young people's votes to get rid of Trump is a big gamble, and not one that I am hoping to see. I think Biden would give Trump a hell like he has never seen.  But I don't rule out a progressive being able to win if we hit a record high youth vote turnout. 

Young people want change and most of them are progressive. 

 
 
 
Perrie Halpern R.A.
Professor Principal
11.2.1  Perrie Halpern R.A.  replied to  JohnRussell @11.2    5 years ago

Again, there are not enough of them, and many of them don't vote. They have temper tantrums when they don't get their own candidate. Look at what they did to Hillary. 

The adults in the room vote. Middle America votes. Union people vote. Independents and moderates vote. I will not vote for Sanders. I know a lot of other people just like me who feel the same way.

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
11.2.2  author  JohnRussell  replied to  Perrie Halpern R.A. @11.2.1    5 years ago
I will not vote for Sanders.

You make Trump happy. 

On a slightly more serious note, the premise from the left is that IF a candidate that they approve of gets the nomination, the millennials will come out and vote. In large enough numbers to win the election. 

We elected Donald Trump, the biggest fool to ever lead this country. Who's to say what is impossible? 

 
 
 
Ender
Professor Principal
11.2.4  Ender  replied to  Perrie Halpern R.A. @11.2.1    5 years ago

I agree. I wouldn't vote for him.

No matter what people say, he would never win the general vote.

Hillary was never my ideal candidate but I think the Bernie sanction helped her downfall.

 
 
 
nightwalker
Sophomore Silent
11.4  nightwalker  replied to  Perrie Halpern R.A. @11    5 years ago

I actually think Bernie has a very good chance if he gets a straight shot. He seems to at least have some well thought out plans and how to bring them about and even how to pay for them. As I said before, people have seen what the rights vision of a Country is and it's not all that popular with the non-wealthy.

 
 
 
nightwalker
Sophomore Silent
13  nightwalker    5 years ago

Tsk. I always thought the greatness of a Country had something to do with the health, education, security and general welfare of the GENERAL population as well as the economy.

Silly me, I really was over-thinking that wasn't I? jrSmiley_4_smiley_image.png

 
 

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