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Yes, Conservative Christians Are 'Triggered' By LGBT Pride Flags. Here's Why

  

Category:  Op/Ed

Via:  make-america-great-again  •  5 years ago  •  51 comments

Yes, Conservative Christians Are 'Triggered' By LGBT Pride Flags. Here's Why
In a sex-obsessed culture, celibate gay Christians can live out the truth that God fulfills human needs better than sexual desire, whether heterosexual or homosexual.

S E E D E D   C O N T E N T


In late March, House Democrats temporarily replaced the POW-MIA flags hanging outside their offices with pink flags celebrating transgender identity. Family Research Council (FRC) President Tony Perkins called the flags an " unpleasant reminder ." In early March, a high school girl responded to LGBT pride flags by posting Bible verses. Last year, a Chicago priest burned an LGBT pride flag that also had a cross on it, calling the flag a "sacrilege."

Why do conservative Christians have a visceral reaction to LGBT pride flags? Can't they just get along with LGBT people? What's the big hangup? Why are they "triggered"?

The problem is, LGBT pride flags represent the antithesis of many things conservative Christians believe, and every so often this symbol is thrust in their faces. Some schools, cities, and governments have flown these flags in order to show support and compassion for LGBT people, but in doing so they also proclaim a message that Christian beliefs are stigmatized and will not be tolerated.

People who identify as lesbian, gay, bisexual, and transgender have been mistreated in the past, and still are mistreated in some parts of society. They were excluded from bars and businesses, their lifestyles were penalized by law, some of them were put through crackpot treatments like shock therapy (not to be confused with psychologically sound treatments like reparative therapy ), and too often other Americans looked down on them.

Christians need to love everyone, including their enemies. They need to preach the gospel, encouraging non-believers to repent, but they need to do so "with gentleness and respect, having a good conscience, so that when you are slandered, those who revile your good name in Christ may be put to shame" (1 Peter 3:15-17). After all, every Christian is a repentant sinner.

That does not mean that Christians should celebrate LGBT lifestyles, however. It is possible to treat people with respect while disapproving of their sexual activity or their cross-sex identity.

The Bible is clear that God made humans male and female (Genesis 1:27, Mark 10:6, Matthew 19:4) and that marriage is between one man and one woman (Genesis 2:24). The male-female definition of marriage is not just a lifestyle in the Bible — it is a mystery that prefigures the marriage between God and His church (Ephesians 5:31-32).

Homosexual activity is consistently denounced as sinful (Leviticus 18:22, 20:13; Romans 1:18-32; 1 Corinthians 6:9-10; 1 Timothy 1:8-10). That does not mean that same-sex sexual relationships do not involve love and self-sacrifice, but they also involve sin.

This does not mean that people who are attracted to members of the same sex are inherently condemned. The Bible does not uphold the Westborough Baptist Church's "God hates f*gs" rhetoric. Same-sex attracted Christians who choose celibacy to follow Jesus have extremely powerful testimonies.

I heartily recommend David Bennett's excellent book,  A War of Loves: The Unexpected Story of a Gay Activist Discovering Jesus . In a sex-obsessed culture, celibate gay Christians can live out the truth that God fulfills human needs better than sexual desire, whether heterosexual or homosexual.

Similarly, the Christian teaching that God created human beings male and female does not mean Christians must turn a blind eye to people who struggle with gender dysphoria (the persistent condition of identifying with the gender opposite one's biological sex). Their struggles are real, but Christians — and many non-Christians — believe that the solution is not to encourage a transgender identity at odds with their biological sex.

Men and women who once identified as transgender have later rejected this identity, even after taking cross-sex hormones and having transgender surgery. Indeed, they have lamented permanently scarring their bodies in search of a false identity.

Former transgender Christians like Montreea Bailey also have compelling testimonies. Jesus saved Bailey from her transgender identity as a man, and she found the answer to her struggles in the Christian faith.

People like David Bennett and Montreea Bailey know that Christian faith and LGBT pride are fundamentally incompatible. The promises of ultimate fulfillment in homosexual sex and transgender identity are false, just as the promises of ultimate fulfillment in heterosexual sex and other identities are also false.

According to Christian teaching, only God can satisfy the deepest longings of the human heart, and LGBT lifestyles are an idol, a competing god.

LGBT pride also presents an alternate worldview incompatible with Christian teaching. According to the LGBT narrative, the fundamental problem is social stigma and the fundamental solution is an acceptance of gay and transgender identity. It is not enough for society to accept them; people must celebrate their identities.

In Christianity, the key problem is the separation between human beings and God, and Jesus Christ is the solution. Following Jesus enables Christians to overcome sin, and repentance is key to the Christian life. Humility is arguably the centerpiece of Christian ethics, following Jesus's example of God humbling Himself to become a human being (Philippians 2).

The pride in and celebration of sin is anathema to Christianity. LGBT pride represents a rejection of Christian sexual morality and the ideas behind it. The celebration of pride is the opposite of humility.

Yet the LGBT pride flag also represents a social movement that opposes the religious freedom of conservative Christians. Bakers like Jack Phillips gladly serve LGBT people, but they refuse to craft a wedding cake to celebrate a same-sex wedding. Florists and photographers have made the same decision.

State governments in the form of civil rights commissions have prosecuted these convictional Christians, claiming that their free speech refusal to craft art to celebrate an event they disagree with constitutes discrimination. Jack Phillips won his Supreme Court religious freedom case last year , but the commission went after him again , anyway. The issue continues to be divisive, and LGBT activists firmly declare that bakers like Phillips are guilty of discrimination.

Animus against conservative Christians has emerged at Google and at Yale Law School  just in the past few weeks. Cities have banned Chick-Fil-A from their airports — most recently San Antonio, Texas and Buffalo, N.Y.  — because the owner has donated to Christian organizations that uphold traditional sexual ethics.

Yet that's not the worst of it. The Southern Poverty Law Center (SPLC) has branded conservative Christian nonprofits like Alliance Defending Freedom (ADF) and FRC "hate groups" due to their beliefs on marriage and sexuality, listing them along with the Ku Klux Klan. ADF has won nine Supreme Court cases in seven years. A terrorist attempted to kill everyone in FRC, thanks to the SPLC's "hate map."

The SPLC also marked the small Catholic charity the Ruth Institute a "hate group," citing the Catechism of the Catholic Church as a "hate" document.

The SPLC is quite mainstream, but the vitriol against Christians is not limited to this powerful organization. When news broke that Karen Pence, wife of Vice President Mike Pence, had gone back to teaching at a Christian school — that, SHOCKER, holds to the Bible on sexuality issues — outrage ensued , with people declaring, "f**k these homophobes!"

In the book So Many Christians, So Few Lions: Is There Christianophobia in the United States?   sociology professors George Yancey and David Williamson painstakingly document the presence of bias against conservative Christians, proving that it is as real as animus against Muslims and Jews.

Indeed, Yancey's most recent research shows that animus against Christians leads some people to support LGBT activism , even when they have a low opinion of LGBT people.

So, when conservative Christians see LGBT pride flags, they see the symbol of people who hate them, who want to weaken their constitutional rights, and who fundamentally disagree with their view of the world, celebrating the sin that they think separates people from God. If they weren't just a little "triggered," there would be something wrong with them.

Follow Tyler O'Neil, the author of this article, on Twitter at  @Tyler2ONeil .


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XXJefferson51
Senior Guide
1  seeder  XXJefferson51    5 years ago

“The pride in and celebration of sin is anathema to Christianity. LGBT pride represents a rejection of Christian sexual morality and the ideas behind it. The celebration of pride is the opposite of humility.

Yet the LGBT pride flag also represents a social movement that opposes the religious freedom of conservative Christians. Bakers like Jack Phillips gladly serve LGBT people, but they refuse to craft a wedding cake to celebrate a same-sex wedding. Florists and photographers have made the same decision.

State governments in the form of civil rights commissions have prosecuted these convictional Christians, claiming that their free speech refusal to craft art to celebrate an event they disagree with constitutes discrimination. Jack Phillips won his Supreme Court religious freedom case last year, but the commission went after him again, anyway. The issue continues to be divisive, and LGBT activists firmly declare that bakers like Phillips are guilty of discrimination.

Animus against conservative Christians has emerged at Google and at Yale Law School just in the past few weeks. Cities have banned Chick-Fil-A from their airports — most recently San Antonio, Texas and Buffalo, N.Y. — because the owner has donated to Christian organizations that uphold traditional sexual ethics.

Yet that's not the worst of it. The Southern Poverty Law Center (SPLC) has branded conservative Christian nonprofitslike Alliance Defending Freedom (ADF) and FRC "hate groups" due to their beliefs on marriage and sexuality, listing them along with the Ku Klux Klan. ADF has won nine Supreme Court cases in seven years. A terrorist attempted to kill everyone in FRC, thanks to the SPLC's "hate map."

The SPLC also marked the small Catholic charity the Ruth Institute a "hate group," citing the Catechism of the Catholic Church as a "hate" document.

The SPLC is quite mainstream, but the vitriol against Christians is not limited to this powerful organization. When news broke that Karen Pence, wife of Vice President Mike Pence, had gone back to teaching at a Christian school — that, SHOCKER, holds to the Bible on sexuality issues — outrage ensued, with people declaring, "f**k these homophobes!"

In the book So Many Christians, So Few Lions: Is There Christianophobia in the United States? sociology professors George Yancey and David Williamson painstakingly document the presence of bias against conservative Christians, proving that it is as real as animus against Muslims and Jews.

Indeed, Yancey's most recent research shows that animus against Christians leads some people to support LGBT activism, even when they have a low opinion of LGBT people.

So, when conservative Christians see LGBT pride flags, they see the symbol of people who hate them, who want to weaken their constitutional rights, and who fundamentally disagree with their view of the world”

 
 
 
epistte
Junior Guide
1.1  epistte  replied to  XXJefferson51 @1    5 years ago
So, when conservative Christians see LGBT pride flags, they see the symbol of people who hate them, who want to weaken their constitutional rights, and who fundamentally disagree with their view of the world”

LGBT people only oppose religious conservatives because their attempts to deny LGBT people equal rights. Stop trying to deny others equal rights and instead follow the teachings of the person who you claim to be your savior and the son of God and you won't have a problem with LGBT people or anyone else. Matthew 7:12 and Luke 6:31.

LGBT people aren't asking to be liked and businesses owners aren't being asked for their approval or being invited to any ceremony. These business trade flowers, cakes, or pictures for money and that is where any possible relationship stops. The business owner doesn't get to say how their product will be used.  If you cannot obey secular law because of your religious beliefs then you are in the wrong vocation.   You cannot blame your lack of maturity or your inability to control your emotions on your customer(s).

 Your secular or religious constitutional rights have not been weakened because people never had the right to discriminate against others in a public business. When Piggie Park BBQ tried to cite their religious beliefs as a reason to deny blacks equal service they were hauled into court and the SCOTUS ruled they didn't have the right to serve others unequally because of their religious beliefs.  The SCOTUS didn't rule in Jack Phillips favor on the core issue but instead kicked it down the road despite what you may believe.

If you don't stop lighting your hair on fire over this issue on a weekly basis I will start a GoFundMe page for you so we can buy you hair plugs. You have been doing this for years, so you cannot have much hair left by now.

 

 
 
 
Dismayed Patriot
Professor Quiet
1.2  Dismayed Patriot  replied to  XXJefferson51 @1    5 years ago
So, when conservative Christians see LGBT pride flags, they see the symbol of people who hate them, who want to weaken their constitutional rights, and who fundamentally disagree with their view of the world”

What a backwards, moronic and just plain stupid opinion. When Nazi's fly their swastika's they are sending a message of hate and intolerance. When gays fly a rainbow flag it represents inclusion, not hate. It's not a "symbol of people who hate" Christians, many gay persons were raised Christian and many still are Christian, though not for a lack of some Christian churches trying to run them off and seemingly eliminate them from the public. A rainbow flag represents all the colors, all the genders, Christians, Jews, Hindus, Muslims, all are welcome under the rainbow flag. The only thing they ask is to be treated the same as everyone else, to be respected and loved the same as anyone else. They ask not to be treated as social lepers by their fellow law abiding, tax paying citizens, they don't "hate Christians", they simply refuse to accept the prejudice and discrimination a moment longer and they refuse stay in the shadows. That's what the rainbow flag represents, and it's not just for gay persons, everyone's welcome. I have a number of gay friends and clients and they really are some of the nicest people I've ever met and none are trying to exclude or attack Christians in any way. Do they some times comment on the continued shenanigans of the Christian right as they continually try reverse the progress they've made? Of course, but none are saying we should take away Christians right to marry or trying to push Christians in the closet or suggesting Christians go through reparative therapy. And exactly which constitutional rights do LGTBQ Americans want to weaken for conservative Christians? There wasn't a single one mentioned in the mass of whining and faux victim-hood above.

On the last point, it's true, LGTBQ Americans do fundamentally disagree with the view that they are less than, that they are somehow inferior or broken humans who need to be hidden, pitied, shamed and discriminated into silence. So get used to them, they're just like you and me, no more, no less. Treat them as you would like to be treated, with dignity and respect. Is that really so hard for some Christians?

 
 
 
Gordy327
Professor Expert
1.2.1  Gordy327  replied to  Dismayed Patriot @1.2    5 years ago
What a backwards, moronic and just plain stupid opinion.

Well, consider the source. jrSmiley_9_smiley_image.gif

 
 
 
Tacos!
Professor Guide
1.3  Tacos!  replied to  XXJefferson51 @1    5 years ago
The pride in and celebration of sin is anathema to Christianity.

Here's one way you know that's not true. If you're a Christian who even in some small way finds yourself in opposition to LGBT - or you know someone who is - ask how you or those others would feel about homosexuality if it wasn't Biblically condemned. (I'm not saying it is Biblically condemned, but I understand some people say that.)

If you really believed the Bible was neutral on the matter (or even supportive) would that change your perspective? Would you start attending pride events and gay weddings? Somehow, I doubt it.

And this is why I have come to believe that most people who cite scripture as justifying anti-LGBT animus are just using the Bible as a crutch. They are just viscerally opposed to it. It's "icky." 

And hey, I totally get it. The idea of having gay sex myself is icky to me because I'm straight. The reverse is true for gay folks. It's not personal. It's just how people are wired. But that doesn't logically imply denying someone else the right to live their life as God made them. And it certainly doesn't give any person the right to restrict the rights and privileges of someone because they are gay. Not only does it not affect you, it doesn't victimize anyone.

So if you're anti-LGBT, go with it, I guess, but stop trying to convince yourself that it's scripture that shapes your perspective - unless you are really wishing you could be supportive but your interpretation of scripture is the only thing stopping you. And if that's the case, I urge you to study more.

The second way you know it's not true is . . . well . . . pretty much everything we know about Jesus. He embraced and loved everyone, including some people that his own followers found repulsive. If you find yourself excluding someone because of what they are or who they love, that just doesn't sound very Christ-like to me.

Animus against conservative Christians

Let's be fair about this. No one is trying to stop Christians from being Christians. Any animus out there is a direct response to people being told they are offensive to God because of a victimless trait over which they have no control. You might as well condemn people for having freckles or a sweet tooth.

 
 
 
XXJefferson51
Senior Guide
1.3.1  seeder  XXJefferson51  replied to  Tacos! @1.3    5 years ago

“The problem is, LGBT pride flags represent the antithesis of many things conservative Christians believe, and every so often this symbol is thrust in their faces. Some schools, cities, and governments have flown these flags in order to show support and compassion for LGBT people, but in doing so they also proclaim a message that Christian beliefs are stigmatized and will not be tolerated.

People who identify as lesbian, gay, bisexual, and transgender have been mistreated in the past, and still are mistreated in some parts of society. They were excluded from bars and businesses, their lifestyles were penalized by law, some of them were put through crackpot treatments like shock therapy (not to be confused with psychologically sound treatments like reparative therapy), and too often other Americans looked down on them.

Christians need to love everyone, including their enemies. They need to preach the gospel, encouraging non-believers to repent, but they need to do so "with gentleness and respect, having a good conscience, so that when you are slandered, those who revile your good name in Christ may be put to shame" (1 Peter 3:15-17). After all, every Christian is a repentant sinner.

That does not mean that Christians should celebrate LGBT lifestyles, however. It is possible to treat people with respect while disapproving of their sexual activity or their cross-sex identity.

The Bible is clear that God made humans male and female (Genesis 1:27, Mark 10:6, Matthew 19:4) and that marriage is between one man and one woman (Genesis 2:24). The male-female definition of marriage is not just a lifestyle in the Bible — it is a mystery that prefigures the marriage between God and His church (Ephesians 5:31-32).

Homosexual activity is consistently denounced as sinful (Leviticus 18:22, 20:13; Romans 1:18-32; 1 Corinthians 6:9-10; 1 Timothy 1:8-10). That does not mean that same-sex sexual relationships do not involve love and self-sacrifice, but they also involve sin.

This does not mean that people who are attracted to members of the same sex are inherently condemned. The Bible does not uphold the Westborough Baptist Church's "God hates f*gs" rhetoric. Same-sex attracted Christians who choose celibacy to follow Jesus have extremely powerful testimonies.

I heartily recommend David Bennett's excellent book, A War of Loves: The Unexpected Story of a Gay Activist Discovering Jesus. In a sex-obsessed culture, celibate gay Christians can live out the truth that God fulfills human needs better than sexual desire, whether heterosexual or homosexual.

Similarly, the Christian teaching that God created human beings male and female does not mean Christians must turn a blind eye to people who struggle with gender dysphoria (the persistent condition of identifying with the gender opposite one's biological sex). Their struggles are real, but Christians — and many non-Christians — believe that the solution is not to encourage a transgender identity at odds with their biological sex.

Men and women who once identified as transgender have later rejected this identity, even after taking cross-sex hormones and having transgender surgery. Indeed, they have lamentedpermanently scarring their bodies in search of a false identity.

Former transgender Christians like Montreea Baileyalso have compelling testimonies. Jesus saved Bailey from her transgender identity as a man, and she found the answer to her struggles in the Christian faith.

People like David Bennett and Montreea Bailey know that Christian faith and LGBT pride are fundamentally incompatible. The promises of ultimate fulfillment in homosexual sex and transgender identity are false, just as the promises of ultimate fulfillment in heterosexual sex and other identities are also false.

According to Christian teaching, only God can satisfy the deepest longings of the human heart, and LGBT lifestyles are an idol, a competing god.

LGBT pride also presents an alternate worldview incompatible with Christian teaching. According to the LGBT narrative, the fundamental problem is social stigma and the fundamental solution is an acceptance of gay and transgender identity. It is not enough for society to accept them; people must celebrate their identities.”

 
 
 
epistte
Junior Guide
1.3.2  epistte  replied to  XXJefferson51 @1.3.1    5 years ago
According to Christian teaching, only God can satisfy the deepest longings of the human heart, and LGBT lifestyles are an idol, a competing god.

How are LGBT longings an idol but heterosexual longings aren't?

LGBT pride also presents an alternate worldview incompatible with Christian teaching. According to the LGBT narrative, the fundamental problem is social stigma and the fundamental solution is an acceptance of gay and transgender identity. It is not enough for society to accept them; people must celebrate their identities.”

Nobody is asking you to celebrate anything. They are asking to be left alone and to be treated as you would treat a member of your own family or your church. Why is that so difficult for you and other religious conservatives?

What do you fear possibly happening if LGBT people have equal rights and are treated as equal to heterosexual and/or CIS people? Do you think that LGBT people with equal rights are a threat to you or your church?

 
 
 
Tacos!
Professor Guide
1.3.3  Tacos!  replied to  XXJefferson51 @1.3.1    5 years ago
The Bible is clear that God made humans male and female

Sure, but it's not clear he intended to make them all straight males and females. The fact that humans come in two sexes doesn't mean their relationships must be defined based on reproduction. If that were true, there should be no couples who can't have babies (like senior citizens or younger couples with low sperm/egg counts). Do you want to prohibit retirees from getting married? Should we have fertility tests before young people can marry?

and that marriage is between one man and one woman

Jesus was talking about divorce. He wasn't even addressing the issue of two good people committing to each other who happen to be gay. Context is so critical to understanding scripture, but on the single subject of LGBT, too many people refuse to consider it. Every Sunday, millions of people file into churches and listen to someone explain scripture to them, so it obviously isn't "clear." But when it comes to discriminating against gay people suddenly "scripture is clear."

Homosexual activity is consistently denounced as sinful

These prohibitions were found in what is called the Holiness Codes of the Bible and were intended to make the Hebrews culturally distinct from the other peoples of the world - specifically people in Egypt and Canaan. The Holiness Codes also include all sorts of other prohibitions about dress, hairstyles, and food, but no one thinks those things are some kind of bar to the gates of Heaven. 

But when Jesus came along, was his message that Canaanites and Egyptians could not be saved? Of course not! Is there some stipulation that to be saved, they must follow all the ancient societal rules that the Hebrews set for themselves? Again, no. What is required is that we accept and believe in Jesus and the sacrifice he made for us. Jesus himself broke the rules and the point was to show that the rules were simply good advice on how to live a happy life, not some checklist for getting into Heaven.

Who are the greatest villains - the biggest foils - in the gospels? It's the Pharisees. They chase Jesus around trying to catch him breaking this or that old rule and every time Jesus makes fools of them and calls them hypocrites. Jesus told them

"the Sabbath was made for man, not man for the Sabbath." (Mark 2:27)

In other words, you take Sundays off not because God needs you to rest, but because you need to rest.

Paul got it:

For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels nor demons, neither the present nor the future, nor any powers, neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord. (Romans 8:38-39) 

When Paul talks about same-sex activity, there is no indication that he was referring to - or even conceived of - the idea of monogamous, committed gay couples (Christian or otherwise). He's talking about prostitution and pagan practices. There is no reason to think that Paul was some kind of scholar on the psychology of sexual attraction. Seeking him out for wisdom on the causes of same-sex attraction is a fool's errand.

Paul's letters can be especially tricky, because he is writing to specific groups of people in specific places and those people have encountered issues specific to them. Unless you can figure out what those circumstances are, it's irresponsible to take Paul's advice to those people, turn them into some kind of binding Law of Heaven, and apply to them all people in every situation.

If you think you can cite Mosaic law and apply it to Christians, or that anything about gender matters to God, then you haven't studied Paul's letter to the Galations.

When I saw that they were not acting in line with the truth of the gospel, I said to Cephas in front of them all, “You are a Jew, yet you live like a Gentile and not like a Jew. How is it, then, that you force Gentiles to follow Jewish customs?

“We who are Jews by birth and not sinful Gentiles know that a person is not justified by the works of the law, but by faith in Jesus Christ. So we, too, have put our faith in Christ Jesus that we may be justified by faith in Christ and not by the works of the law, because by the works of the law no one will be justified.

“But if, in seeking to be justified in Christ, we Jews find ourselves also among the sinners, doesn’t that mean that Christ promotes sin? Absolutely not! If I rebuild what I destroyed, then I really would be a lawbreaker.

“For through the law I died to the law so that I might live for God. I have been crucified with Christ and I no longer live, but Christ lives in me. The life I now live in the body, I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me.I do not set aside the grace of God, for if righteousness could be gained through the law, Christ died for nothing! (Galations 2:14-21)

And . . . 

So in Christ Jesus you are all children of God through faith, for all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ. There is neither Jew nor Gentile, neither slave nor free, nor is there male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus. (Galations 4:26-28)

One last thing . . .

people who struggle with gender dysphoria

I'm just going to say here that the Bible is silent on gender dysphoria - although you could argue that in Galations, Paul is actually arguing in support of LGBT. But in general, I believe gender dysphoria is not considered or addressed at all. It is a distinct issue from sexual attraction. It's a medical issue that requires psychological, pharmaceutical and, often, surgical intervention. Demonizing people who need help and compassion is just about the cruelest response I can imagine and extremely disappointing when I see it in Christians.

 
 
 
katrix
Sophomore Participates
1.3.4  katrix  replied to  Tacos! @1.3.3    5 years ago
When Paul talks about same-sex activity, there is no indication that he was referring to - or even conceived of - the idea of monogamous, committed gay couples (Christian or otherwise). He's talking about prostitution and pagan practices. There is no reason to think that Paul was some kind of scholar on the psychology of sexual attraction. Seeking him out for wisdom on the causes of same-sex attraction is a fool's errand.

Wonderful post!

I would also add that Paul apparently didn't think even straight couples should marry, ideally.  He seemed to have a pretty poor view of sex in general, which isn't something Jesus seemed to share.  And if God shared that view of sex, there's no reason he would have made it possible for women to have orgasms (which are not related to procreation), for humans to have sex drives that have nothing to do with whether a person is fertile (as you pointed out), and so on.  And he wouldn't have created 10% of all people throughout history as gay.  God definitely didn't seem to share Paul's view of celibacy being a lower state. 

But per Paul, even married people should remain celibate if possible, which makes no sense to me, and doesn't seem to have been derived from Jesus' teachings.

 
 
 
Dig
Professor Participates
2  Dig    5 years ago

How timely...

Stop pretending it's a choice for them.

By the way, per your seed, how do gay people weaken your constitutional rights?

 
 
 
XXJefferson51
Senior Guide
2.1  seeder  XXJefferson51  replied to  Dig @2    5 years ago

......Yet there is only one problem about this immutability argument; the science shows it simply isn’t true! In Evidence Shows Sexual Orientation Can Change: Debunking the Myth of “Immutability,” I report on academic studies over the last two decades based on four large data sets drawn from surveys about sexuality. These studies are both “population-based” (representative of the population as a whole) and “longitudinal” (meaning they survey the same individuals at intervals years apart, allowing us to measure change over time).

The truth is, “sexual orientation” is a multi-faceted concept, involving a combination of attractions, behaviors, and personal identity. These four studies all demonstrate that significant change in each of the elements of sexual orientation is possible. The percentage changing from homosexuality to heterosexuality ranged from 13% to 53% (while the percentage changing from heterosexuality to homosexuality ranged only from 1% to 12%). In one survey of “same-sex attracted respondents,” up to 38% of men and 53% of women “changed to heterosexuality” in only a six-year period.

Confirmation of this has come from a surprising source. Scholar Lisa Diamond (who herself identifies as a lesbian) has long studied and written about the “sexual fluidity” of women. In a 2016 article with her colleague Clifford Rosky, she declared, “Given the consistency of these findings, it is not scientifically accurate to describe same-sex sexual orientation as a uniformly immutable trait.”.....https://www.christianpost.com/voice/lgbt-equality-laws-lose-their-foundation-evidence-shows-sexual-orientation-can-change.html

 
 
 
epistte
Junior Guide
2.1.1  epistte  replied to  XXJefferson51 @2.1    5 years ago

There is no empirical evidence that a person's sexual orientation ever changes or can be changed, despite what the FRC has convinced you. Maybe instead of praying to change people to be hetero and CIS as well as being your brand of Christianity, you should instead pray that you stop being so judgemntal and bigoted to those who are different than you.

For these reasons, no major mental health professional organization has sanctioned efforts to change sexual orientation and virtually all of them have adopted policy statements cautioning the profession and the public about treatments that purport to change sexual orientation. [6] [7] [8] The Royal College of Psychiatrists shares the concern of both the American Psychiatric Association and the American Psychological Association that positions espoused by bodies like the National Association for Research & Therapy of Homosexuality (NARTH) in the United States are not supported by science and that so-called treatments of homosexuality as recommended by NARTH create a setting in which prejudice and discrimination can flourish. [7] [9]
 
 
 
Dig
Professor Participates
2.1.2  Dig  replied to  XXJefferson51 @2.1    5 years ago

Your evidence is from something at christianpost.com? That's hilarious. 

Did you watch that clip I posted? It's not very long. He most certainly did not choose to be gay.

Also, you didn't answer my question. How do gay people weaken your constitutional rights, as claimed in your seed?

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
2.1.3  TᵢG  replied to  XXJefferson51 @2.1    5 years ago

Can you choose to be homosexual?   If sexual orientation is a choice, the please demonstrate how this choice is accomplished.

Just choose to be gay for 30 minutes.   Tell us how you accomplished that.   Then, choose to be heterosexual again.   

Shall we hold our collective breath?

 
 
 
Dismayed Patriot
Professor Quiet
2.1.4  Dismayed Patriot  replied to  TᵢG @2.1.3    5 years ago
Can you choose to be homosexual? 

I believe it's as much a choice as being born left handed. Can someone born left handed learn to function in a right handed world? Yes, but does that ever change the fact they were born left handed or what hand they might reflexively use to grab a falling glass? Of course not, because they were born left handed. Gay reparative therapy is just an attempt to make gay Christians functionally ambidextrous, to pretend to be right handed in order to fit in, in order to not spook the fundamentalists who believe left handedness is a sign of the devil. I believe someday the majority of advanced countries will treat gay friends and neighbors the same as if they happened to be left handed, and some of us already do.

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
2.1.5  TᵢG  replied to  Dismayed Patriot @2.1.4    5 years ago

So will KAG explain to us how he managed to choose to be homosexual for this experiment?

 
 
 
Tacos!
Professor Guide
2.1.6  Tacos!  replied to  XXJefferson51 @2.1    5 years ago
the science shows it simply isn’t true

I've seen the report and it's not science. There is no measurement of chemical processes in the brain that can be tied to sexual orientation. Sloppy surveys are not science.

The reality is many people will experiment with relationships. Many gay people will try really hard to be straight. Some live their whole lives in heterosexual relationships, but they are faking it the entire time. They do this because of huge cultural pressure to conform. But that doesn't mean their natural inclination is to heterosexuality.

the “sexual fluidity” of women

I have seen this, too, and I don't have any grounds to disagree with its existence. However, that fluidity is not the result of some conscious decision like picking green shoes over blue ones, or salad instead of pie. And even if it were, so what? The sex lives of two adults are nobody else's business.

There is this religiously justified prejudice that being LGBT is somehow a moral failing. It's allegedly the result of lust and passion run amok and out of control. But there is zero evidence to support that hypothesis and ample evidence to the contrary. There are moral, Christian people, in love with Jesus, filled with the Holy Spirit, and in healthy, monogamous relationships. And they're still gay. 

 
 
 
luther28
Sophomore Silent
2.1.7  luther28  replied to  Tacos! @2.1.6    5 years ago
The sex lives of two adults are nobody else's business

Thank you very much.

 
 
 
lady in black
Professor Quiet
2.1.8  lady in black  replied to  XXJefferson51 @2.1    5 years ago

More hot air, there is NO science that denies it, unless it's pseudo christian faux science.

 
 
 
Ender
Professor Principal
3  Ender    5 years ago
LGBT pride flags represent the antithesis of many things conservative Christians believe

Freedom for all?

 
 
 
Dismayed Patriot
Professor Quiet
3.1  Dismayed Patriot  replied to  Ender @3    5 years ago
Freedom for all?

Many religious conservatives view homosexuals as, in biblical terms, "unclean". They are the spiritual equivalent to infectious lepers, who, while they shouldn't necessarily be hated, should be pitied, discriminated against and kept away from the rest of society. In their minds, if an island leper colony isn't available the nearest closet will do.

This is the uphill battle the LGTBQ community has had to wage to remove this unfair unfounded character assassination of an entire section of humanity that just happened to be born gay. Much like the claim made by religious conservatives of the past about the "curse of Cain" afflicting blacks thus making them "unclean" which made it okay to enslave, discriminate and treat them as less than human, some religious conservatives today do the same to those of the LGTBQ community.

And the fact is, in their homes and their personal lives, those bigoted Christians have every right to be prejudiced, to think of gays as virulent lepers. But when it comes to how gays are treated under the law and in the public spaces and businesses licensed and open to the public, they should be treated as any other tax paying, law abiding citizen. That's what it comes down to, and that is the law. The complaint by some religious conservatives seems to be they are being denied what they perceive is apparently an extra right granted by their religious freedom enabling them to cross over into the public spaces and public businesses where they can authorize legal discrimination against those they and their religion have deemed "unclean".

If there were some way to physically tell who had masturbated in the last six months, and a religion deemed masturbation "unclean", would religious conservatives be okay allowing business owners to deny service to anyone with "the mark"? Should those with "the mark" be denied marriage licenses? As I ask that seemingly rhetorical question I realize there are some fundamentalists who would likely support that kind of legislation. But seriously, are we really going to allow any religion to legislate its religious prejudices? And if we do, doesn't that open the way for other religions to try and legislate their religious prejudices?

 
 
 
Ender
Professor Principal
3.1.1  Ender  replied to  Dismayed Patriot @3.1    5 years ago
doesn't that open the way for other religions to try and legislate their religious prejudices?

They either don't think that far ahead or think their religion is the only one with these special rights.

Some of these fundamentalists think the land of the free only applies to them.

 
 
 
JBB
Professor Principal
4  JBB    5 years ago

Do fakeass small c christian fundies oppose Liberty, Freedom and Social Justice?

Of course they do...

 
 
 
katrix
Sophomore Participates
5  katrix    5 years ago

Reparative therapy is just another term for conversion therapy, and it is absolutely NOT psychologically sound.

There is nothing wrong with gay people that they need to be "cured" of - the only people who need to be cured are the ones who want to discriminate against them, in direct opposition to Jesus' teachings.

 
 
 
luther28
Sophomore Silent
6  luther28    5 years ago

Yes, Conservative Christians Are 'Triggered' By LGBT Pride Flags

I presume they are aware that gayness is not contagious. Other than that I can see no reason why ones personal preferences would have any impact on another, unless you happen to be a peeping Tom that is.

I find it hard to believe that folks are still tied up in knots over the three sillies, race, religion and sexuality. For a change how about attempting to attend to ones own life and quit telling others how to lead theirs. ( a nice way of saying mind your own business)

 
 
 
XXJefferson51
Senior Guide
6.1  seeder  XXJefferson51  replied to  luther28 @6    5 years ago

“The pride in and celebration of sin is anathema to Christianity. LGBT pride represents a rejection of Christian sexual morality and the ideas behind it. The celebration of pride is the opposite of humility.

Yet the LGBT pride flag also represents a social movement that opposes the religious freedom of conservative Christians. Bakers like Jack Phillips gladly serve LGBT people, but they refuse to craft a wedding cake to celebrate a same-sex wedding. Florists and photographers have made the same decision.

State governments in the form of civil rights commissions have prosecuted these convictional Christians, claiming that their free speech refusal to craft art to celebrate an event they disagree with constitutes discrimination. Jack Phillips won his Supreme Court religious freedom case last year, but the commission went after him again, anyway. The issue continues to be divisive, and LGBT activists firmly declare that bakers like Phillips are guilty of discrimination.

Animus against conservative Christians has emerged at Google and at Yale Law School just in the past few weeks. Cities have banned Chick-Fil-A from their airports — most recently San Antonio, Texas and Buffalo, N.Y. — because the owner has donated to Christian organizations that uphold traditional sexual ethics.

Yet that's not the worst of it. The Southern Poverty Law Center (SPLC) has branded conservative Christian nonprofitslike Alliance Defending Freedom (ADF) and FRC "hate groups" due to their beliefs on marriage and sexuality, listing them along with the Ku Klux Klan. ADF has won nine Supreme Court cases in seven years. A terrorist attempted to kill everyone in FRC, thanks to the SPLC's "hate map."

The SPLC also marked the small Catholic charity the Ruth Institute a "hate group," citing the Catechism of the Catholic Church as a "hate" document.

The SPLC is quite mainstream, but the vitriol against Christians is not limited to this powerful organization. When news broke that Karen Pence, wife of Vice President Mike Pence, had gone back to teaching at a Christian school — that, SHOCKER, holds to the Bible on sexuality issues — outrage ensued, with people declaring, "f**k these homophobes!"

In the book So Many Christians, So Few Lions: Is There Christianophobia in the United States? sociology professors George Yancey and David Williamson painstakingly document the presence of bias against conservative Christians, proving that it is as real as animus against Muslims and Jews.

Indeed, Yancey's most recent research shows that animus against Christians leads some people to support LGBT activism, even when they have a low opinion of LGBT people.”

 
 
 
katrix
Sophomore Participates
6.1.1  katrix  replied to  XXJefferson51 @6.1    5 years ago
“The pride in and celebration of sin is anathema to Christianity. LGBT pride represents a rejection of Christian sexual morality and the ideas behind it. The celebration of pride is the opposite of humility.

Tough shit.  The pride in and celebration of bigotry is anathema to moral people, and willful ignorance is anathema to rational people, but that doesn't mean we get to stop you from either of those things.  You're awfully proud (as you yourself have said) about your beliefs - yet you demand humility from others?  You can celebrate your beliefs but nobody else should celebrate theirs?  BTW, sex between consenting adults isn't a "sin" - as it doesn't harm anyone.

Baking a cake or making a flower arrangement or taking photos is NOT participating in a wedding.  My florist certainly didn't participate in mine.  And you have yet to explain how you can so gladly go directly against Jesus' teachings, or how what anyone else does in bed with other consenting adults is any of your damn business, or affects you in any way.

 
 
 
luther28
Sophomore Silent
6.1.2  luther28  replied to  XXJefferson51 @6.1    5 years ago

In truth, I cannot think of one of my family members, friends, acquaintances or any other for that matter that could care a wit about another's personal belief or lack of it.

That is until they attempt to foist their absolutism onto others. Freedom, remember that it works both ways not just yours.

 
 
 
epistte
Junior Guide
6.1.4  epistte  replied to  XXJefferson51 @6.1    5 years ago
Indeed, Yancey's most recent research shows that animus against Christians leads some people to support LGBT activism, even when they have a low opinion of LGBT people.”

The animus towards conservative Christians is because of their constant attempts to legislate their beliefs as secular law and deny others equal constitutional rights because of conservative beliefs. Stop being a hypocrite and trying to govern other's lives with your illogical beliefs and people won't hate you nearly as much.  Your religious beliefs only apply to you because others have equal religious beliefs to believe differently.

People don't like bigots, busy-bodies and religious hypocrites. 

 
 
 
Tacos!
Professor Guide
6.2  Tacos!  replied to  luther28 @6    5 years ago
I presume they are aware that gayness is not contagious.

Then you presume too much. There are still many people who don't want gay people teaching or supervising their kids, and many churches who won't accept gay pastors or church leaders. This, in spite of the fact that such gay people have no intention of trying to persuade anyone to be gay (something I don't think I've ever actually seen). The only thing left is that it must be the gay cooties.

 
 
 
Ender
Professor Principal
6.2.1  Ender  replied to  Tacos! @6.2    5 years ago

I still come to the conclusion that the most virulent about it are afraid they might act on their own desires.

 
 
 
luther28
Sophomore Silent
6.2.2  luther28  replied to  Tacos! @6.2    5 years ago
gay cooties
Ah yes, I had forgotten about that scourge:)

 
 
 
Freefaller
Professor Quiet
7  Freefaller    5 years ago

Yes, Conservative Christians Are 'Triggered' By LGBT Pride Flags

They should probably try to grow up and get over it

 
 
 
Dismayed Patriot
Professor Quiet
7.1  Dismayed Patriot  replied to  Freefaller @7    5 years ago
Yes, Conservative Christians Are 'Triggered' By LGBT Pride Flags

You would think that they'd be "triggered" by the swastika's and confederate flags flown together by the tiki torch mob, but no, it's the rainbow flags that really get them riled up.

 
 
 
Ender
Professor Principal
7.1.1  Ender  replied to  Dismayed Patriot @7.1    5 years ago

They must really get pissed after a rain storm.

 
 
 
JBB
Professor Principal
8  JBB    5 years ago

You know what should trigger everyone? Bigotry, Ignorance, Hate and Intolerance...

Should anyone give a flying fig if a bunch of fundie haters are triggered? Not at all.

 
 
 
luther28
Sophomore Silent
8.1  luther28  replied to  JBB @8    5 years ago

Nicely said.

 
 
 
lady in black
Professor Quiet
9  lady in black    5 years ago

Faux christians need a safe space from rainbow flags.

1*OQ7fRpVYmFFH5RZOhsA0NQ.jpeg

 
 
 
epistte
Junior Guide
9.1  epistte  replied to  lady in black @9    5 years ago

They have their home, their church, Chick-Fil-A and Fox News.

 
 
 
Ender
Professor Principal
9.1.1  Ender  replied to  epistte @9.1    5 years ago

And walmart for their Sunday.

 
 
 
Ender
Professor Principal
9.2  Ender  replied to  lady in black @9    5 years ago

AAHHH....The colours....

 
 
 
XXJefferson51
Senior Guide
9.3  seeder  XXJefferson51  replied to  lady in black @9    5 years ago

And the secular progressive hate continues....

 
 
 
epistte
Junior Guide
9.3.1  epistte  replied to  XXJefferson51 @9.3    5 years ago
And the secular progressive hate continues....

We only hate ignorance and bigotry.

Where in the 4 gospels did Jesus tell you to act like this, if you claim that discriminating against LGBT is a religious belief?  

 
 
 
lady in black
Professor Quiet
9.3.2  lady in black  replied to  XXJefferson51 @9.3    5 years ago

And the faux christian persecution complex continues.

 
 
 
Phoenyx13
Sophomore Silent
9.3.3  Phoenyx13  replied to  lady in black @9.3.2    5 years ago
And the faux christian persecution complex continues.

the "victim cards" are in an endless deck and constantly played ...... at least we now know they are triggered

 
 
 
epistte
Junior Guide
9.3.4  epistte  replied to  Phoenyx13 @9.3.3    5 years ago
at least we now know they are triggered

It would appear that they are triggered by guaranteed equal rights for others.

 
 
 
Gordy327
Professor Expert
9.3.5  Gordy327  replied to  XXJefferson51 @9.3    5 years ago
And the secular progressive hate continues..

And the Christian persecution complex continues....

Of course, Christians only have themselves to blame for any "hate" they bring upon themselves!

 
 
 
epistte
Junior Guide
9.3.6  epistte  replied to  Gordy327 @9.3.5    5 years ago
Of course, Christians only have themselves to blame for any "hate" they bring upon themselves!

It seems that they want us to thank them for trying to turn the clock back 700 years and trampling the rights of anyone with a functional frontal lobe.

 
 
 
Gordy327
Professor Expert
9.4  Gordy327  replied to  lady in black @9    5 years ago
Faux christians need a safe space from rainbow flags

Careful lady. You might "trigger" someone. Lol

 
 
 
Phoenyx13
Sophomore Silent
10  Phoenyx13    5 years ago
The problem is, LGBT pride flags represent the antithesis of many things conservative Christians believe, and every so often this symbol is thrust in their faces.

wait, what ? how about the Cross - a popular symbol for conservative Christians and it represents the advocation of taking away a same sex couples' secular legal right to Marriage, along with many members of the LGBT community constantly " condemned to Hell " just for being who they are and were born as ...... which symbol is older and has been in society's face longer ?

People who identify as lesbian, gay, bisexual, and transgender have been mistreated in the past, and still are mistreated in some parts of society. They were excluded from bars and businesses, their lifestyles were penalized by law, some of them were put through crackpot treatments like shock therapy (not to be confused with psychologically sound treatments  like reparative therapy ), and too often other Americans looked down on them.

for the most part - mostly true except that reparative therapy isn't psychologically sound .. just ask Robert Spitzer ( who recanted his study in 2012 ) or talk to Exodus International ... oh wait.. you can't... they apologized as well and no longer exist ...

LGBT pride also presents an alternate worldview incompatible with Christian teaching. According to the LGBT narrative, the fundamental problem is social stigma and the fundamental solution is an acceptance of gay and transgender identity. It is not enough for society to accept them; people must celebrate their identities.

celebrate their identities ? i don't remember anyone being asked that .. oh wait.. you are probably referring to baking cakes aren't you ? i guess owning a public business and serving the actual public is too much for some people's sensitive, fragile religious " beliefs " .

 
 

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