Pete Buttigieg calls out Mike Pence during his speech at the LGBTQ Victory Fund Brunch

  
Via:  perrie-halpern  •  3 months ago  •  201 comments

Pete Buttigieg calls out Mike Pence during his speech at the LGBTQ Victory Fund Brunch
Pete Buttigieg tells Mike Pence "if you have a problem with who I am, your quarrel is not with me. Your quarrel, sir, is with my creator." while speaking at the LGBTQ Victory Fund Brunch.

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Perrie Halpern R.A.
1  seeder  Perrie Halpern R.A.    3 months ago

Is being gay a choice, or are we made gay and if we are made gay, did god make you gay?

When my childhood friend, who was raised in the Church of the Salvation Army finally came out to his parents when he was 50, his parents were shocked and horrified. His mother was the one who came to a similar conclusion. She said, "I don't believe that god makes mistakes." It was the only time I've heard that, until listening to this speech. 

What do you think?

*WARNING* Do not make this article political.

 
 
 
Tacos!
1.1  Tacos!  replied to  Perrie Halpern R.A. @1    3 months ago
She said, "I don't believe that god makes mistakes."

I've heard that one, too, from evangelicals who are convinced that no one is made gay, because if they were, that would be a mistake made by God. But what human being gets to decide that anything in God's Creation is a mistake? Who is worthy to make that judgment? So, Person A doesn't behave like Person B. That doesn't mean Person B is a mistake. Unfortunately, human beings - including a lot of really devout ones - have a long history of hearing God's word and then getting it totally wrong or ignoring it outright.

 
 
 
epistte
1.1.1  epistte  replied to  Tacos! @1.1    3 months ago

Someone please make a note of the day and time because I am agreeing with Tacos on the issue of LGBT. People don't choose to be LGBT. They just are and have always been LGBT.

 
 
 
Trout Giggles
1.1.2  Trout Giggles  replied to  Tacos! @1.1    3 months ago

Wow, Tacos, some days you simply amaze me. We don't agree on much but this we can definitely agree on.

You really are a nice guy

 
 
 
MrFrost
1.1.3  MrFrost  replied to  Tacos! @1.1    3 months ago

Excellent post. 

 
 
 
Sister Mary Agnes Ample Bottom
1.1.4  Sister Mary Agnes Ample Bottom  replied to  Tacos! @1.1    3 months ago

What they said.

 
 
 
zuksam
1.2  zuksam  replied to  Perrie Halpern R.A. @1    3 months ago
Is being gay a choice, or are we made gay and if we are made gay, did god make you gay?

It's a choice for some and for others it's a natural attraction they feel and act on. When you bring God into it you have to question whether the Temptation is from God and Choice is up to the Individual. Did God create Thieves and Murderers or did they just succumb to temptation. Who hasn't been tempted to do something they know is wrong. Sometimes the Church, Government, or Public Opinion deems something as wrong but individuals believe otherwise. Are they right or wrong, did they succumb to their temptations and are now justifying their actions by claiming everyone else is wrong. Some people like to do wrong, it arouses and excites them.

 
 
 
katrix
1.2.1  katrix  replied to  zuksam @1.2    3 months ago
It's a choice for some and for others it's a natural attraction they feel and act on

Did you choose to be heterosexual?  You can't just "choose" to be sexually attracted to men if you're not wired that way.

And you're comparing things that don't harm anyone else - which therefore aren't wrong - with things that DO harm others and are therefore wrong.

 
 
 
r.t..b...
1.2.2  r.t..b...  replied to  zuksam @1.2    3 months ago
It's a choice for some and for others it's a natural attraction they feel and act on.

It is not an either/or, and temptation from an external guilt-based set of arbitrary mores has absolutely nothing to do with it.

 
 
 
zuksam
1.2.3  zuksam  replied to  katrix @1.2.1    3 months ago
You can't just "choose" to be sexually attracted to men if you're not wired that way.

People in jail do it all the time. It's just like masturbation, very few people are sexually attracted to their hands but they think about other things that sexually excite them while using their hands to masturbate. Also not all Gay People wanted Homosexuality to be normalized, it is the forbidden fruit aspect of gay sex that arouses them (or at least it used to be). Liberals are always saying everyone is different yet they still try to put people into ridged little groups but the truth is everyone truly are individuals.

 
 
 
Perrie Halpern R.A.
1.2.4  seeder  Perrie Halpern R.A.  replied to  zuksam @1.2.3    3 months ago

Zuksam,

I don't understand what you mean by being put into little groups. 

In nature, animals are gay. They don't make a decision to be gay. They just are. 

There are also physiological differences between straight brains and gay brains. They show up clearly on MRI. 

So given that we know their brains are different and given that in this soiceity, it is far easier to be straight than to be gay. So I really doubt it is a choice. 

Did you watch the video?

 
 
 
JBB
1.2.5  JBB  replied to  Perrie Halpern R.A. @1.2.4    3 months ago

Anyone saying homosexuality does not exist in nature never visited a farm. 

Our farm was practically a gay pride parade. Bulls humping other bulls. Rams ramming rams. Hogs being pigs. Cocks toppin roosters. Even my dog Sadie, who was female, would mount the pussy cats. There is plainly nothing unnatural about warm blooded mammals seeking sexual satisfaction. What do you think happens in a pasture containing 100 in season cows with only one bull? Yep, lots of cow on cow action going on. You have to laugh at anyone contending that sex is unnatural when most domesticated animal's prime objective seems to be to make their stinky bits tingle...

 
 
 
katrix
1.2.6  katrix  replied to  zuksam @1.2.3    3 months ago
Also not all Gay People wanted Homosexuality to be normalized, it is the forbidden fruit aspect of gay sex that arouses them (or at least it used to be).

You have to be joking. 

 
 
 
zuksam
1.2.7  zuksam  replied to  Perrie Halpern R.A. @1.2.4    3 months ago
I don't understand what you mean by being put into little groups

What I mean is they make a designation of what it means to be Gay and how and why they become Gay and they state it like it's a scientific determination when it's not. Why do some who've never been in a Gay relationship enter into one " Maybe most Gay people were born that way but not all. Some go that way because of bad experiences. Some are attracted to one particular same sex person. You can't State "this is the way it is" if there are exceptions.

 
 
 
Sunshine
1.2.8  Sunshine  replied to  JBB @1.2.5    3 months ago
Our farm was practically a gay pride parade.

Perhaps it is more a matter of availability and sex drive.  Some animals will hump a leg. jrSmiley_10_smiley_image.gif

 
 
 
Perrie Halpern R.A.
1.2.9  seeder  Perrie Halpern R.A.  replied to  zuksam @1.2.7    3 months ago
Maybe most Gay people were born that way but not all. Some go that way because of bad experiences. Some are attracted to one particular same sex person. You can't State "this is the way it is" if there are exceptions.

There are exceptions to almost everything. That is why in science there is so little that they say has been proven. What we do know, is that when self-identifying gays take MRI's, their brains are different from straight brains. That is science. 

I can not speak about bi-sexuality since I have not seen a study on it.

 
 
 
MUVA
1.2.10  MUVA  replied to  katrix @1.2.1    3 months ago

What about bisexual people?

 
 
 
epistte
1.2.11  epistte  replied to  MUVA @1.2.10    3 months ago
What about bisexual people?

They were born that way. Most people are bisexual to some degree according to the Kinsey scale. 

https://psymed.info/kinsey-scale-test

 
 
 
†hε pε⊕pレε'š ƒïšh
1.2.12  †hε pε⊕pレε'š ƒïšh  replied to  epistte @1.2.11    3 months ago

I disagree, its all about the alcohol.

 
 
 
katrix
1.2.13  katrix  replied to  MUVA @1.2.10    3 months ago
What about bisexual people?

They're lucky - they are wired to be sexually attracted to both men and women, and therefore have twice as large a dating pool as straight or gay people! 

 
 
 
Trout Giggles
1.2.14  Trout Giggles  replied to  JBB @1.2.5    3 months ago

Seriously, JBB...I really do bleive all that cow-on-cow action going on out in the pasture is about dominance.

I could be wrong because I do believe that there is same sex relationships in the animal world

 
 
 
MUVA
1.2.15  MUVA  replied to  katrix @1.2.13    3 months ago

I didn't think about it that ups your chances of scoring.

 
 
 
MrFrost
1.2.16  MrFrost  replied to  Perrie Halpern R.A. @1.2.9    3 months ago
I can not speak about bi-sexuality since I have not seen a study on it.

I think that may fall under the, "acts, not orientation", category. 

 
 
 
Dulay
1.2.17  Dulay  replied to  zuksam @1.2.3    3 months ago
Also not all Gay People wanted Homosexuality to be normalized, it is the forbidden fruit aspect of gay sex that arouses them (or at least it used to be).

Gee zuksam, you seem to have a unique personal insight.

Or is it just fantasy? H/T Queen

 
 
 
Don Overton
1.2.18  Don Overton  replied to  zuksam @1.2.7    3 months ago

How the hell do you come up a comment that has no basis in fact or reality.

Are you homophobic, an evangelical, who attempt to use the Bible as their basis for their bigotry?

 
 
 
WallyW
1.3  WallyW  replied to  Perrie Halpern R.A. @1    3 months ago

Gay. lesbian, and bi people are born that way, although there might have been experiences that pushed in that direction, according to the talks I have had with gay and lesbian friends, relatives, and acquaintances.  But in my young days being considered "queer" was the worst accusation possible. So I can understand why some people, because of their nature, or their upbringing don't accept the lifestyle and behavior.

 
 
 
Perrie Halpern R.A.
1.3.1  seeder  Perrie Halpern R.A.  replied to  WallyW @1.3    3 months ago

I had similar experiences in my life when I was younger. I also had two friends who came out eventually. Oddly enough, the one who parents would accept it, tried to be straight, because in that time and place, that was the only way to have a family. My other friend, due to his upbringing, tried hard to hide it, but ultimately came out to friends. 

When I read about the fMRI and MRI studies that showed the differences in the gay brain, from straight brains, then I was convinced it could never be a choice. 

So I'm with you.

 
 
 
FLYNAVY1
1.4  FLYNAVY1  replied to  Perrie Halpern R.A. @1    3 months ago

Religious disposition, sexual disposition, racial disposition....None of these should matter.

Better questions should be, is this person and their friends interesting to be around?  Can you learn from this person?  Are they nice to others?  The rest is just embroidery. 

 
 
 
Perrie Halpern R.A.
1.4.1  seeder  Perrie Halpern R.A.  replied to  FLYNAVY1 @1.4    3 months ago

Very well said. 

I listened to this young man, and you couldn't get more apple pie than he is. I was actually very impressed by his composure and demeanor. I hope he makes a dent in the democratic nominees. Even if he doesn't win, he is a refreshing voice. 

 
 
 
Dulay
1.4.2  Dulay  replied to  FLYNAVY1 @1.4    3 months ago

I would only add:

Do they make you laugh.

 
 
 
cms5
1.5  cms5  replied to  Perrie Halpern R.A. @1    3 months ago
Is being gay a choice, or are we made gay and if we are made gay, did god make you gay?

My very christian brother-in-law claimed that our sister-in-law coddled our nephew so much she made him gay. Sitting at the dinner table with my mother-in-law and brother-in-law...I couldn't believe what I was hearing. Our nephew had just 'come out', but frankly it was quite obvious for years. I asked him a very simple question, "What mother would want her child to be so different that he would become a part of a group ostracized by many Christians?" He sputtered and then kept on with his ranting. My mother-in-law smacked his arm and told him to 'listen to what she has to say'. I continued as best I could. I don't know if anything I said made any difference.

I believe that sexual preference is an instinct we are born with...whether God, or our parents genes, created or contributed to that instinct is a question I can't answer.

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
1.6  Vic Eldred  replied to  Perrie Halpern R.A. @1    3 months ago
Is being gay a choice, or are we made gay and if we are made gay, did god make you gay?

That question is debatable, isn't it?  Does it need to be answered anymore? Gay's have been fully accepted in modern American society and have, at the very least, as much rights as everyone else. 

What do you think?

I think the question reminds me of one we used to get in high school from a certain teacher. She always a point to be made and I always knew exactly what it was. In that spirit, I will say "gays are born that way"!!! (unfortunately, I won't be getting an A for that).

*WARNING* Do not make this article political.

That was so very hard to do based on the full context of the quote you chose. 

 
 
 
Don Overton
1.6.1  Don Overton  replied to  Vic Eldred @1.6    3 months ago
Gay's have been fully accepted in modern American society and have, at the very least, as much rights as everyone else. 

how false can you get

 
 
 
Dulay
1.6.2  Dulay  replied to  Vic Eldred @1.6    3 months ago
Gay's have been fully accepted in modern American society and have, at the very least, as much rights as everyone else.

I can only hope that your comment was made in ignorance. 

There is NO Federal protection for 'Gays' in America.

In most states, a gay person can loose their job or precluded from employment, be evicted or denied housing, be denied public accommodation, refused the right to adopt and foster children. Recently, states are passing legislation to allow 'Gays' to be denied medical care. All merely based on their sexual orientation. 

Anyone who claims that the LGBT community enjoys 'as much rights as everyone else' is ether ignorant or obtuse. 

 
 
 
†hε pε⊕pレε'š ƒïšh
1.6.3  †hε pε⊕pレε'š ƒïšh  replied to  Dulay @1.6.2    3 months ago

So what would you propose?

 
 
 
al Jizzerror
1.7  al Jizzerror  replied to  Perrie Halpern R.A. @1    3 months ago

God who?  A God that "makes no mistakes"?

Are your referring to the vindictive Asshole who flooded the Earth and wiped out everything that wasn't on Noah's Ark?  I guess the dead babies were intentional.

 
 
 
luther28
2  luther28    3 months ago

Though I myself am non-religious, I would say we are who we are and come in differing shapes, sizes and thought. Nature ( or if you wish, the god of your choice) makes that determination, it is up to us and others to accept it as it is.

As an aside, I really hope Mayor Pete garners more attention, this young man has his stuff together from what I have seen and heard thus far.

 
 
 
r.t..b...
2.1  r.t..b...  replied to  luther28 @2    3 months ago
we are who we are and come in differing shapes, sizes and thought.

...all made in God's image (for those that purport to believe in that premise). His is a calm, reasonable, unapologetic voice with the gravitas and eloquence so woefully lacking in the current dialogue. 

 
 
 
WallyW
2.1.1  WallyW  replied to  r.t..b... @2.1    3 months ago
His is a calm, reasonable, unapologetic voice with the gravitas and eloquence so woefully lacking in the current dialogue. 

Is that because he's gay? Does being gay make him special?

 
 
 
epistte
2.1.2  epistte  replied to  WallyW @2.1.1    3 months ago
Is that because he's gay? Does being gay make him special?

No, it doesn't make him special. 

 
 
 
r.t..b...
2.1.3  r.t..b...  replied to  WallyW @2.1.1    3 months ago
Is that because he's gay?

And there is the dismissive argument against him from those so quick to judge and too slow to listen.

 
 
 
luther28
2.1.4  luther28  replied to  WallyW @2.1.1    3 months ago

No just a human being.

 
 
 
Perrie Halpern R.A.
2.1.5  seeder  Perrie Halpern R.A.  replied to  WallyW @2.1.1    3 months ago
Is that because he's gay? Does being gay make him special?

I don't think that being gay makes you special. I think it is no different than being straight. I think that this young man seems to be very put together and very well spoken. (Please don't get me wrong, I am not endorsing him). I was very impressed by his speech. 

 
 
 
Tacos!
2.1.6  Tacos!  replied to  WallyW @2.1.1    3 months ago
Does being gay make him special?

No, but how he presents can be special. While I understand (and even participate in) pride events, I believe that the more sexual or angry demonstrations often do more harm than good. While they can be empowering for some, they often serve to reinforce the prejudice that people are gay because they are sexual perverts. So instead of wearing a thong on Main Street or screaming in anger, this man is calm, intelligent, and persuasive. That approach can change minds, which is why we might see him as "special."

 
 
 
Trout Giggles
2.1.7  Trout Giggles  replied to  WallyW @2.1.1    3 months ago

It makes God fabulous!

 
 
 
r.t..b...
2.1.8  r.t..b...  replied to  Tacos! @2.1.6    3 months ago
this man is calm, intelligent, and persuasive. That approach can change minds,

Well said. 

 
 
 
MrFrost
2.1.9  MrFrost  replied to  Trout Giggles @2.1.7    3 months ago
It makes God fabulous!

And sparkly.. 

 
 
 
Dulay
2.1.10  Dulay  replied to  Tacos! @2.1.6    3 months ago
I believe that the more sexual or angry demonstrations often do more harm than good. While they can be empowering for some, they often serve to reinforce the prejudice that people are gay because they are sexual perverts. So instead of wearing a thong on Main Street or screaming in anger, this man is calm, intelligent, and persuasive.

Interesting that a man in a thong is considered a 'sexual pervert' but a woman exposing her breasts to perfect strangers for Mardi gras beads is just honky dory. 

I'm probably not telling you anything you don't know, but many a member of the LGBT community has traded a uniform for a thong for Pride day. I have been a security monitor for many a Chicago Pride float over the years. 

I live 30 minutes from South Bend and have watched Mayor Pete come into his own. His city LOVES him and he's done them a hell of a lot of good. He's local social media is funny and informative. 

 
 
 
Perrie Halpern R.A.
2.2  seeder  Perrie Halpern R.A.  replied to  luther28 @2    3 months ago

I totally agree with you luther. That is exactly what I would have said. 

 
 
 
JBB
3  JBB    3 months ago

[deleted]

 
 
 
Perrie Halpern R.A.
3.1  seeder  Perrie Halpern R.A.  replied to  JBB @3    3 months ago

Please no politics. Thank you.

 
 
 
JBB
3.1.1  JBB  replied to  Perrie Halpern R.A. @3.1    3 months ago

Buttigieg, a politician who made a political speech, is running against Trump.

 
 
 
JBB
3.1.2  JBB  replied to  JBB @3.1.1    3 months ago

Buttigieg's eloquence puts shame to the verbal diareah spewed by Pence...

 
 
 
Perrie Halpern R.A.
3.1.3  seeder  Perrie Halpern R.A.  replied to  JBB @3.1.2    3 months ago

JBB,

The point of his speech was about being gay. That is the aspect I wish to discuss here. If you would like to do an article on this, please feel free to do so. Otherwise, please keep the topic to his experience as a gay man. 

 
 
 
It Is ME
3.1.4  It Is ME  replied to  JBB @3.1.1    3 months ago
Buttigieg, a politician who made a political speech, is running against Trump.

NO !

He's actually running against other Democrats right now !

 
 
 
Perrie Halpern R.A.
3.1.5  seeder  Perrie Halpern R.A.  replied to  It Is ME @3.1.4    3 months ago

Can we focus on the content part of his coming out and the struggles he faced?

 
 
 
It Is ME
3.1.6  It Is ME  replied to  Perrie Halpern R.A. @3.1.5    3 months ago
Can we focus on the content part of his coming out and the struggles he faced?

What Struggles ?

Like AOC struggles ?

He's running for President, and he's waaaaay younger than I am....37. (talk about Struggles jrSmiley_9_smiley_image.gif)!

 
 
 
Perrie Halpern R.A.
3.1.7  seeder  Perrie Halpern R.A.  replied to  It Is ME @3.1.6    3 months ago
What Struggles ?

Coming out as a gay man.

Like AOC struggles ?

She is not the subject of this. 

And his age is irrelevant to this. 

 
 
 
It Is ME
3.1.8  It Is ME  replied to  Perrie Halpern R.A. @3.1.7    3 months ago
Coming out as a gay man.

That's not an accomplishment !

He waited to "Announce" he was gay in an essay in 2015 about himself. He had already been Mayor of South bend since 2011. Back then it was all about his "Young Age". (Youngest Mayor like in EVER ! )

One day we may have an 8 year old gay dog for mayor, the way things are going these days !

IT WOULD BE JUST ANOTHER ONE OF THOSE ….. FIRST THINGS AGAIN ! jrSmiley_98_smiley_image.gif

"Special" labels are terrible and "Warped" for this country !

 
 
 
Dulay
3.1.9  Dulay  replied to  It Is ME @3.1.8    3 months ago
Back then it was all about his "Young Age". (Youngest Mayor like in EVER ! )

Youth isn't why he was elected as Mayor of South Bend. Stop with the BS. 

One day we may have an 8 year old gay dog for mayor, the way things are going these days !

A comment with no value. 

IT WOULD BE JUST ANOTHER ONE OF THOSE ….. FIRST THINGS AGAIN !

So I guess you're over the 'America First' thingy. 

"Special" labels are terrible and "Warped" for this country !

Please immediately inform Trump that America isn't 'Special' and tell him that his agenda is warped.

 
 
 
It Is ME
4  It Is ME    3 months ago

Me ?

You just are what you are.

But don't make it some kinda "Special" thing to throw in my face, to get more of what you personally want !

 
 
 
Dismayed Patriot
4.1  Dismayed Patriot  replied to  It Is ME @4    3 months ago
But don't make it some kinda "Special" thing to get more of what you personally want !

I have heard others claim gay persons want "extra" rights, but I've never heard an actual example of any "extra" rights they've asked for. Can you clarify what you believe is the "some kinda Special" you seem to refer to?

 
 
 
It Is ME
4.1.1  It Is ME  replied to  Dismayed Patriot @4.1    3 months ago
I have heard others claim gay persons want "extra" rights, but I've never heard an actual example of any "extra" rights they've asked for.

I never said anything negative about "Rights" as spelled out in the "Constitution".

 
 
 
Dismayed Patriot
4.1.2  Dismayed Patriot  replied to  It Is ME @4.1.1    3 months ago
I never said anything negative about "Rights" as spelled out in the "Constitution".

Okay, so if not rights, what were you referring to when you said "But don't make it some kinda "Special" thing to throw in my face"? and "to get more of what you personally want!"? What "more" do you believe they are asking for?

 
 
 
It Is ME
4.1.3  It Is ME  replied to  Dismayed Patriot @4.1.2    3 months ago
Okay, so if not rights, what were you referring to when you said "But don't make it some kinda "Special" thing to throw in my face"? and "to get more of what you personally want!"?

Actually "LISTEN" to your own representatives running for "President of the United States" !

They spell out what "Special" is,  quite well.

You do actually listen and comprehend what your "Representatives" say, Don't you ?

 
 
 
Dismayed Patriot
4.1.4  Dismayed Patriot  replied to  It Is ME @4.1.3    3 months ago
They spell out what "Special" is,  quite well.

I'm hearing they want to be treated as any other American would be, with dignity and respect. I do not hear any request to be treated as "special" or that they are asking for something "more" than anyone else is. You say "they spell out what 'special' is", if that's true you should be able to easily explain what you mean instead of trying to evade the question with deflection.

 
 
 
It Is ME
4.1.5  It Is ME  replied to  Dismayed Patriot @4.1.4    3 months ago

jrSmiley_78_smiley_image.gif

I wasn't speaking about the candidates needs for themselves .

Holy Shit ! jrSmiley_88_smiley_image.gif

 
 
 
Tessylo
4.1.6  Tessylo  replied to  Dismayed Patriot @4.1.4    3 months ago
'if that's true you should be able to easily explain what you mean instead of trying to evade the question with deflection.'

That's all he appears to have or he would answer the question !

 
 
 
Dismayed Patriot
4.1.7  Dismayed Patriot  replied to  It Is ME @4.1.5    3 months ago
I wasn't speaking about the candidates needs for themselves .

So what are you talking about?

"Me? You just are what you are. But don't make it some kinda "Special" thing to throw in my face, to get more of what you personally want !"

I understood what you meant by "You just are what you are." in relation to this article. What I don't understand fully is the follow up or rather the need for your follow up if you've never experienced some example of where someone "just being what they are" has demanded that they be considered 'some kind of Special' where they get "more" of something from secular society. All I'm asking is to give examples or confirm that you were just speaking in hypothetical terms if you can't site actual examples.

 
 
 
It Is ME
4.1.9  It Is ME  replied to  Dismayed Patriot @4.1.7    3 months ago
So what are you talking about?

The "Special" promises being made by the "Left" candidates, just for "Special" people. jrSmiley_87_smiley_image.gif

 
 
 
r.t..b...
4.1.10  r.t..b...  replied to  It Is ME @4.1.9    3 months ago
The "Special" promises being made by the "Left" candidates, just for "Special" people.

Not to be redundant, but what are you talking about? 

 
 
 
†hε pε⊕pレε'š ƒïšh
4.1.11  †hε pε⊕pレε'š ƒïšh  replied to  r.t..b... @4.1.10    3 months ago

Usually Perrie does the translations, she will be back soon.

 
 
 
It Is ME
4.1.12  It Is ME  replied to  r.t..b... @4.1.10    3 months ago
Not to be redundant, but what are you talking about? 

Do you listen to the Democrat Candidates these days ?

Have you read the article above ?

Pete Buttigieg was, is ….. something, so Pence can't speak, as Pete is "Special" now ! Wonder when he'll apologies for something, to help those Other "Special" People too !

 
 
 
epistte
4.1.14  epistte  replied to  It Is ME @4.1.9    3 months ago
The "Special" promises being made by the "Left" candidates, just for "Special" people.

What special policies/rights are being promised to special people, that you do not already enjoy

 
 
 
MrFrost
4.1.15  MrFrost  replied to  epistte @4.1.14    3 months ago

It saddens me that some people see being treated equally as, "special". For decades the religious folks were able to say, "we can marry, you gay people cannot!". The second that talking point was removed, the religious started to complain that their belief system was being oppressed. 

Equality = oppression? I don't even know where to start..

.

Also, if God hates gay's so much, why does she keep making them? Odd...very odd.

.

 
 
 
epistte
4.1.16  epistte  replied to  MrFrost @4.1.15    3 months ago
Equality = oppression? I don't even know where to start..

You are exactly true. This is the famous quote about the very same idea,

When You’re Accustomed to Privilege, Equality Feels Like Oppression’

.

Also, if God hates gay's so much, why does she keep making them? Odd...very odd.

Apparently, their god isn't as perfect as they believe.  But their omniscient god also creates people who sin and blames them for being imperfect instead of making people who don't sin.

 
 
 
Perrie Halpern R.A.
4.2  seeder  Perrie Halpern R.A.  replied to  It Is ME @4    3 months ago

IIM,

I agree it doesn't make you special. I am not sure what you mean by being thrown in your face. Did you watch the video? This gentleman isn't doing that at all. 

 
 
 
It Is ME
4.2.1  It Is ME  replied to  Perrie Halpern R.A. @4.2    3 months ago
I agree it doesn't make you special. I am not sure what you mean by being thrown in your face. Did you watch the video? This gentleman isn't doing that at all. 

I'm not worried about "This" gentleman, I'm watching those on the "Left" that want to be "President of the United States of America" !

They are awash/Pandering in "Specialism" promises !

Don't ya luv "ism's" ? jrSmiley_15_smiley_image.gif

 
 
 
Perrie Halpern R.A.
4.2.2  seeder  Perrie Halpern R.A.  replied to  It Is ME @4.2.1    3 months ago
I'm not worried about "This" gentleman, I'm watching those on the "Left" that want to be "President of the United States of America" ! They are awash/Pandering in "Specialism" promises !

I would/ wouldn't choose a candidate because of them being gay or not. I vote based on issues. 

 
 
 
It Is ME
4.2.3  It Is ME  replied to  Perrie Halpern R.A. @4.2.2    3 months ago
I would/ wouldn't choose a candidate because of them being gay or not.

I wasn't speaking about what the "Specific" person running was or wasn't. I was speaking of what they Promise everyone else !

 
 
 
JBB
4.2.4  JBB  replied to  Perrie Halpern R.A. @4.2.2    3 months ago

You just demanded, "No Politics", from me above yet here you are discussing what? Politics. Which, by the way, made no sense at all considering the topic is political and the subjects are politicians. I commented on the eloquence of Buttigieg who is a politician who made a political speech. His comments referenced another politician. So, WTF?

 
 
 
Perrie Halpern R.A.
4.2.5  seeder  Perrie Halpern R.A.  replied to  JBB @4.2.4    3 months ago

JBB,

90% of that video he is talking about his experiences as a gay man and how faith, love, and country combine with that. He makes 1 small remark that is political. I didn't want to focus on that. I asked nicely not to right from the get-go. 

 
 
 
MrFrost
4.2.6  MrFrost  replied to  It Is ME @4.2.3    3 months ago
I wasn't speaking about what the "Specific" person running was or wasn't. I was speaking of what they Promise everyone else !

I was raised to vote for who I thought would do the best for the country, not just me. And I will stop there regarding politics. (Apologies to PH). 

 
 
 
Sunshine
4.3  Sunshine  replied to  It Is ME @4    3 months ago
But don't make it some kinda "Special" thing to throw in my face, to get more of what you personally want !

Such as claiming discrimination when not getting the job they want.  

 
 
 
epistte
4.3.1  epistte  replied to  Sunshine @4.3    3 months ago
Such as claiming discrimination when not getting the job they want.  

When did this happen?

 
 
 
It Is ME
4.3.2  It Is ME  replied to  Sunshine @4.3    3 months ago
Such as claiming discrimination when not getting the job they want.

That's "Issue" is already in the "Constitution" and the "State Laws" !

See.....

That just shows that "Congress" can't officially "Secure" their own rules and laws, yet they want to make MORE RULES and LAWS, so the voting public will vote for them...."Reference" the bazillion "Lefties" now running for President and promising the world to the "Minority" !

The "Majority" already know the Rules and Laws. Follow those Rules and Laws. That's why they are having fun cookouts on the weekend, while the Minority whine and Cry days on end.

 
 
 
Sunshine
4.3.3  Sunshine  replied to  epistte @4.3.1    3 months ago
When did this happen?

Really?  You have never heard of a discrimination lawsuit regarding sexual orientation?  Need to get out more?

You have never ever read an article about a person claiming they where either denied or fired from employment because of their sexual orientation? 

 
 
 
It Is ME
4.3.4  It Is ME  replied to  epistte @4.3.1    3 months ago
When did this happen?

Not getting the "Cake" you want makes for better headlines. jrSmiley_40_smiley_image.gif

 
 
 
epistte
4.3.5  epistte  replied to  Sunshine @4.3.3    3 months ago
Really?  You have never heard of a discrimination lawsuit regarding sexual orientation?  Need to get out more? You have never ever read an article about a person claiming they where either denied or fired from employment because of their sexual orientation? 

I know people who were fired when they came out because the boss/owner was a homophobic bigot.

 
 
 
epistte
4.3.6  epistte  replied to  It Is ME @4.3.4    3 months ago
Not getting the "Cake" you want makes for better headlines.

A business owner doesn't have the right to deny equal service because of their religious beliefs.   They must do the job when you have the money to pay. People also cannot be charged more for the same service because they are LGBT or a different religion/race.

 
 
 
katrix
4.3.7  katrix  replied to  Sunshine @4.3    3 months ago
Such as claiming discrimination when not getting the job they want.  

It IS discrimination when someone doesn't get hired, or gets fired, due to their sexual orientation.  Are you saying they should just put up with it, same as black people used to have to do?

 
 
 
It Is ME
4.3.8  It Is ME  replied to  epistte @4.3.6    3 months ago
A business owner doesn't have the right to deny equal service because of their religious beliefs.

Your sooooo WRONG !

https://www.newsweek.com/masterpiece-cakeshop-wins-supreme-court-decision-956900

"The U.S. Supreme Court ruled in a 7-2 decision Monday that a Colorado baker had the constitutional right to deny service to a gay couple in 2012 because of his religious beliefs."

 
 
 
epistte
4.3.9  epistte  replied to  It Is ME @4.3.8    3 months ago

The Supreme Court didn't rule on whether Phillps could deny equal service because of his religious beliefs.  They said that the state could not call him a religious bigot. Read the last paragraph of the decision because the crucial issue of denial of service was kicked down the road. 

The Supreme Court ruled today in favor of Jack Phillips, a Colorado baker who refused to make a custom cake for a same-sex couple because he believed that doing so would violate his religious beliefs. This was one of the most anticipated decisions of the term, and it was relatively narrow: Although Phillips prevailed today, the opinion by Justice Anthony Kennedy rested largely on the majority’s conclusion that the Colorado administrative agency that ruled against Phillips treated him unfairly by being too hostile to his sincere religious beliefs. The opinion seemed to leave open the possibility that, in a future case, a service provider’s sincere religious beliefs might have to yield to the state’s interest in protecting the rights of same-sex couples, and the majority did not rule at all on one of the central arguments in the case – whether compelling Phillips to bake a cake for a same-sex couple would violate his right to freedom of speech.
 
 
 
It Is ME
4.3.10  It Is ME  replied to  epistte @4.3.9    3 months ago
and the majority did not rule at all on one of the central arguments in the case – whether compelling Phillips to bake a cake for a same-sex couple would violate his right to freedom of speech.

That has nothing to do with "Colorado baker had the constitutional right to deny service to a gay couple in 2012 because of his religious beliefs."

It specifically says...he had the right to deny "Service", which was your entire premise.

This is YOUR own Quote:

YOUR Comment 4.3.6 = "A business owner doesn't have the right to deny equal service because of their religious beliefs."

Did you forget on purpose ?

 
 
 
epistte
4.3.11  epistte  replied to  It Is ME @4.3.10    3 months ago

Jack Phillips most certainly does not have the right to deny service in a public business because of his religious beliefs.  The SCOTUS decision is Masterpiece Cake Shop never said that he did.

The Commission's hostility was inconsistent with the First Amendment's guarantee that our laws be applied in a manner that is neutral toward religion. Phillips was entitled to a neutral decisionmaker who would give full and fair consideration to his religious objection as he sought to assert it in all of the circumstances in which this case was presented, considered, and decided. In this case the adjudication concerned a context that may well be different going forward in the respects noted above. However later cases raising these or similar concerns are resolved in the future, for these reasons the rulings of the Commission and of the state court that enforced the Commission's order must be invalidated.
The outcome of cases like this in other circumstances must await further elaboration in the courts, all in the context of recognizing that these disputes must be resolved with tolerance, without undue disrespect to sincere religious beliefs, and without subjecting gay persons to indignities when they seek goods and services in an open market.
 
 
 
It Is ME
4.3.12  It Is ME  replied to  epistte @4.3.11    3 months ago

You picked that out of some opinion piece or some "Twit" posting huh !

Is that why you didn't "Link" it ?

 
 
 
epistte
4.3.13  epistte  replied to  It Is ME @4.3.12    3 months ago

My post in 4.3.11 is the last 3 paragraphs of the majority decision written by Justice Kennedy in Masterpiece Cake Shop. 

https://www.oyez.org/cases/2017/16-111

 
 
 
 
Tessylo
4.3.15  Tessylo  replied to  It Is ME @4.3.14    3 months ago

Yes it does matter.

You are incorrect.  

 
 
 
epistte
4.3.16  epistte  replied to  It Is ME @4.3.14    3 months ago
It matters NOT ! It was an opinion on a 7 to 2 ruling "For" Jack Phillips.

A SCOTUS decision is an opinion by the 9 judges and it is federal law.

 
 
 
It Is ME
4.3.17  It Is ME  replied to  epistte @4.3.16    3 months ago
A SCOTUS decision is an opinion by the 9 judges and it is federal law.

Is it an opinion, or is it because they actually "Know THE Law" !

 
 
 
It Is ME
4.3.18  It Is ME  replied to  Tessylo @4.3.15    3 months ago

"Feelings"....NOTHING MORE THAN "FEELINGS" …………...

 
 
 
epistte
4.3.19  epistte  replied to  It Is ME @4.3.17    3 months ago
Is it an opinion, or is it because they actually "Know THE Law" !

The law can be interpreted in many different ways. 

Didn't you take a high school civics class as a graduation requirement? 

 Your choice of random capitalizations doesn't help your questionable claims.

 
 
 
It Is ME
4.3.20  It Is ME  replied to  epistte @4.3.19    3 months ago
The law can be interpreted in many different ways. 

By some.....not ALL !

Didn't you take a high school civics class as a graduation requirement?
Your choice of random capitalizations doesn't help your questionable claims.

That was soooo cute !jrSmiley_68_smiley_image.png

Opinion ? jrSmiley_97_smiley_image.gif

 
 
 
Trout Giggles
4.3.21  Trout Giggles  replied to  Sunshine @4.3    3 months ago

Do you think it's ok to fire someone from their job because they are LGBT?

 
 
 
MrFrost
4.3.22  MrFrost  replied to  Sunshine @4.3.3    3 months ago

So you support discrimination based on sexual orientation? 

 
 
 
Don Overton
4.3.23  Don Overton  replied to  Sunshine @4.3    3 months ago

Prove it sunshine

 
 
 
Don Overton
4.3.24  Don Overton  replied to  Sunshine @4.3.3    3 months ago

Yep several, try google very educational

 
 
 
livefreeordie
5  livefreeordie    3 months ago

Buttigieg regurgitates the classic sinners rationalization for their disobedience to God.   Most sinners engage in this kind of denial seeking to make God change His standards of right and wrong.

it is a fools errand and one that self condemns them to hell unless they repent and stop sinning.

Homosexual behavior clearly is self craving instead of obedience to God

“As you yield freely and fully to the dynamic life and power of the Holy Spirit, you will abandon the cravings of your self - life. For your self - life craves the things that offend the Holy Spirit and hinder him from living free within you! And the Holy Spirit’s intense cravings hinder your old self - life from dominating you! So then, the two incompatible and conflicting forces within you are your self - life of the flesh and the new creation life of the Spirit. But when you are brought into the full freedom of the Spirit of grace, you will no longer be living under the domination of the law, but soaring above it! The cravings of the self-life are obvious: Sexual immorality, lustful thoughts, pornography,

Galatians 5:16-19 

“May we all act as good and respectable people, living today the same way as we will in the day of His coming. Do not fall into patterns of dark living: wild partying, drunkenness, sexual depravity, decadent gratification, quarreling, and jealousy. Instead, wrap yourselves in the Lord Jesus, God’s Anointed, and do not fuel your sinful imagination by indulging your self-seeking desire for the pleasures of the flesh.”

Romans 13:13-14 

Jesus declared “But  those things which proceed out of the mouth come from the heart, and they defile a man. For out of the heart proceed evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, false witness, blasphemies.”

Matthew 15:18-19 

Fornication was defined by Judaism as all sex outside of the marriage of a man and a woman

 
 
 
epistte
5.1  epistte  replied to  livefreeordie @5    3 months ago

Keep your religious beliefs out of politics and secular law and nobody cares who you hate. 

Matthew 7.1:6 also said this,

“Do not judge, or you too will be judged. For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you. “Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother’s eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye? How can you say to your brother, ‘Let me take the speck out of your eye,’ when all the time there is a plank in your own eye? You hypocrite, first take the plank out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother’s eye.
 
 
 
livefreeordie
5.1.1  livefreeordie  replied to  epistte @5.1    3 months ago

First of all, I didn’t judge him.  God will judge him. I repeated what God says about it and what He has set as the consequences, not my setting the consequences

Secondly, That is a common misapplication of the passage which DOES NOT forbid judgment but says you must not judge by your own standards of right and wrong, but by God’s.

we are commanded by Jesus to judge with righteous judgement in that passage and elsewhere 

"Do not judge according to appearance, but judge with righteous judgment.” John 7:24

Him we preach, warning every man and teaching every man in all wisdom, that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus. To this end I also labor, striving according to His working which works in me mightily.

Colossians 1:28-29 

 
 
 
epistte
5.1.2  epistte  replied to  livefreeordie @5.1.1    3 months ago
First of all, I didn’t judge him.  God will judge him. I repeated what God says about it and what He has set as the consequences, not my setting the consequences

You did judge him when you said this,

Buttigieg regurgitates the classic sinners rationalization for their disobedience to God.   Most sinners engage in this kind of denial seeking to make God change His standards of right and wrong.

Not all Christians have the same interpretation of the Bible that you and other conservatives do. Their beliefs are as valid as yours, despite your disagreement.

 
 
 
Perrie Halpern R.A.
5.1.3  seeder  Perrie Halpern R.A.  replied to  epistte @5.1.2    3 months ago
Not all Christians have the same interpretation of the Bible that you and other conservatives do. Their beliefs are as valid as yours, despite your disagreement.

I agree, There are many ways to interpret the bible. This is the way you chose to read it. I know other ministers who do not. 

 
 
 
katrix
5.1.4  katrix  replied to  epistte @5.1.2    3 months ago
Not all Christians have the same interpretation of the Bible that you and other conservatives do

To be fair, there are quite a few conservative Christians in here who don't have that interpretation either. 

 
 
 
livefreeordie
5.1.5  livefreeordie  replied to  epistte @5.1.2    3 months ago

That is not judging him no matter how you try and twist it

secondly only those who deny the Word of God’s clear teachings and instead embrace a worldly standard have a different “interpretation”.  I’m simply giving the clearly stated teachings of Jesus and using the definitions of the original language and the Torah as N’dea stood by those who heard Jesus

“Blessed are those who do His commandments, that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter through the gates into the city. But outside are  dogs and sorcerers and sexually immoral and murderers and idolaters, and whoever loves and practices a lie. “I, Jesus, have sent My angel to testify to you these things in the churches.  I am the Root and the Offspring of David,  the Bright and Morning Star.”  Revelation 22:14-16 

The Greek word here for sexually immoral is porneia which for Jews and the Christian Council of Jerusalem in Acts 15 includes ALL sex outside of the marriage of a man and a woman

“For it pleases the Holy Spirit and us that we not place any unnecessary burden on you, except for the following restrictions: Stay away from anything sacrificed to a pagan idol, from eating what is strangled or with any blood, and from any form of sexual immorality. You will be beautiful believers if you keep your souls from these things, and you will be true and faithful to our Lord Jesus. May God bless you!”

Acts 15:28-29 

 
 
 
epistte
5.1.6  epistte  replied to  Perrie Halpern R.A. @5.1.3    3 months ago
. I agree, There are many ways to interpret the bible. This is the way you chose to read it. I know other ministers who do not. 

Every sect believes that their interpretation is correct, just as every religion believes that only their god(s) exists. 

This is why the strict separation of church and state is necessary so the state is kept neutral on the issue of religious freedom and our laws apply to all people equally.  The state cannot enforce religious morality because there are as many ideas of what is or isn't moral as there are of who is or isn't god.

 If we allow one religion to gain control of government, the next obvious fight is which sect has power. We must learn from the experiences in Northern Ireland and the middle east when the various Islamic sects fight for political power in a very bloody fashion. Their own actions are the best example of why church and state must be kept absolutely separate if we are to have a stable government with equal rights for all instead of just the dominant religion having freedom. 

 
 
 
katrix
5.1.7  katrix  replied to  livefreeordie @5.1.5    3 months ago
secondly only those who deny the Word of God’s clear teachings

Funny how there are so many religions, and something like 33,000 sects within Christianity - apparently your god's teachings aren't that clear, or all Christians would agree on what they say and there wouldn't be all these Christian sects.  Only an arrogant fool would claim to personally be able to interpret the bible, and state that every other Christian is wrong. 

 
 
 
katrix
5.1.8  katrix  replied to  epistte @5.1.6    3 months ago

These fundamentalists who are so hung up on what other people do in bed ... I find that quite disturbing.

Are they wired that way, to be so obsessed with other people's sex lives?  I mean, there are tons of other sins that are considered just as bad, but it's like a porn addition or something to them.  It must suck to have such an unhealthy view of sex, and to have such an obsession. 

I wonder if this obsession explains why so many extremist religious leaders molest their congregations, often including children. 

 
 
 
epistte
5.1.9  epistte  replied to  katrix @5.1.8    3 months ago
These fundamentalists who are so hung up on what other people do in bed ... I find that quite disturbing.

Are they wired that way, to be so obsessed with other people's sex lives?  I mean, there are tons of other sins that are considered just as bad, but it's like a porn addition or something to them.  It must suck to have such an unhealthy view of sex, and to have such an obsession. 

I wonder if this obsession explains why so many extremist religious leaders molest their congregations, often including children. 

I think that most of them are closeted and jealous because LGBT people are being who they are while religious conservatives try to deny the fact that they are gay/bi/trans and think that others must be forced to do likewise. 

 
 
 
Freefaller
5.1.10  Freefaller  replied to  livefreeordie @5.1.1    3 months ago
we are commanded by Jesus

That's your choice, not everyone elses

 
 
 
MrFrost
5.1.11  MrFrost  replied to  livefreeordie @5.1.1    3 months ago

I seriously doubt Jesus would refuse to make a cake for a gay couple, Jesus accepted everyone. 

 
 
 
epistte
5.1.12  epistte  replied to  MrFrost @5.1.11    3 months ago

Jesus taught the golden rule in Matthew 7:12,

12 “So whatever you wish that others would do to you, do also to them, for this is the Law and the Prophets.
 
 
 
Don Overton
5.1.13  Don Overton  replied to  livefreeordie @5.1.1    3 months ago
First of all, I didn’t judge him.

The hell you didn't.         When people use the bible to cover bigotry it shows a complete lack of What Christ teaches

 
 
 
Don Overton
5.1.14  Don Overton  replied to  livefreeordie @5.1.5    3 months ago

Quit trying to make up thing you judged him and there is no getting around it

 
 
 
Perrie Halpern R.A.
5.2  seeder  Perrie Halpern R.A.  replied to  livefreeordie @5    3 months ago

LFOD,

I have a question for you and I am not trying to be a wise guy. Did you ever have a gay thought? Is there anything that could turn you gay (outside of the word of god)? 

I know I am straight and have always been straight. My gay friends have never been straight. Animals don't choose to be gay. Gay brains are different structurally. How do you square that with your beliefs? Who made the gay brian? it has to be god.

 
 
 
livefreeordie
5.2.1  livefreeordie  replied to  Perrie Halpern R.A. @5.2    3 months ago

In my lifetime I’ve had all kinds of sinful thoughts and acted upon some of them before I committed myself to obeying God.  Christians are commanded to

1. Deny the flesh and it’s lustful desires

2. Bring our minds into obedience to our spirit so as to not gratify our impulses and thoughts

3. Be holy as God is holy

God made no one homosexual.  Everyone has their own weaknesses to overcome.  He does not contradict Himself

no animal is homosexual.  They have no soul and thus lack any moral compass to choose between right and wrong.  Animals also try to have sex with our legs or any inanimate object. Attaching human choices to the animal kingdom is ridiculous, but some persist in it.

This standard against sexual immorality according to Rabbinic tradition, predates even the Torah, back to the Noachidic law given to Noah after the flood

The Rabbinical Council of America and The Union of Orthodox Jewish Congregations of America reaffirm the following foundational principles and beliefs in unambiguous and unmistakable terms: 

Homosexual behavior is, and has always been, absolutely forbidden by Jewish law and tradition. Any attempt to characterize Jewish law and tradition to the contrary must be rejected.

The only legitimate form of sexual behavior is that which takes place between adult men and women, within the sacred institution of marriage, as traditionally defined and permitted.

Under no circumstances can Jewish tradition or law countenance a notion of so-called "Same-Sex Marriage" rituals or status under religious auspices. In our view, the term "marriage" by its very definition cannot be construed or applied to same-sex relationships. To do so is to deprive the term of its fundamental and defining meaning. The institution of marriage, and family life, as defined and practiced for thousands of years as between a man and a woman, a father and a mother, respectively, is far too important and essential to the bedrock of society and civilization as we know it, to be thus undermined by those who presume to redefine its essence. 

At the same time we reaffirm that those who, in spite of their acceptance of these principles, have difficulty in living up to these standards, should be treated with compassion, sensitivity, and understanding, in our synagogues, in the Jewish community, and in society at large. 

We further note that Passover, commemorating the Exodus from Egypt, is an especially appropriate time to reaffirm these principles. As Leviticus 18 makes clear, the liberation was not only from slavery and infanticide, but also from the sexual depravity practiced in ancient Egypt, which, as understood by the Sages of blessed memory (Sifra Lev. 132), included the legitimization of same-sex marriages. 

We thus call upon our fellow Jews and fellow citizens to stand opposed to any attempt, whether judicial, legislative, or religious in nature, to bestow the sanctity of marriage upon same-sex couples.

http://www.rabbis.org/news/article.cfm?id=100556

 
 
 
epistte
5.2.3  epistte  replied to  livefreeordie @5.2.1    3 months ago
God made no one homosexual.  Everyone has their own weaknesses to overcome.  He does not contradict Himself no animal is homosexual.  They have no soul and thus lack any moral compass to choose between right and wrong.  Animals also try to have sex with our legs or any inanimate object. Attaching human choices to the animal kingdom is ridiculous, but some persist in it.

This is only a religious belief that is not supported by facts. Science says that people are born gay. Your disagreement does not overrule facts and do those facts need you to agree for them to be true. 

 
 
 
Perrie Halpern R.A.
5.2.4  seeder  Perrie Halpern R.A.  replied to  epistte @5.2.3    3 months ago
God made no one homosexual.  Everyone has their own weaknesses to overcome.  He does not contradict Himself

Obviously, that is wrong, since their brains are structurally different. Who made their brains?

The Rabbinical Council of America and The Union of Orthodox Jewish Congregations of America reaffirm the following foundational principles and beliefs in unambiguous and unmistakable terms: Homosexual behavior is, and has always been, absolutely forbidden by Jewish law and tradition. Any attempt to characterize Jewish law and tradition to the contrary must be rejected.

Yet, by Jewish law, you are not allowed to discriminate against them and they should remain part of the community:

We feel what we feel. Some feelings we can change, and some we can't. Sometimes what we feel is subject to modification, and sometimes it's not. Totally and unequivocally not. And yet, the law is absolute. 

As much as we know about human sexuality, we don't yet know enough. We're all, as individuals and as a society, still learning. In the last half century, we've come a long way in our understanding of human sexuality, and in redefining a cultural moral code. Some of what we've come to accept as a society is long, long overdue. And some of what we've come to accept undermines the very dignity of human sexuality. But, we're learning.

We do know this, though: we know that among other sexual behaviours, Torah law expressly forbids the specific act of male homosexuality.

And we do know this: Torah law forbids bigotry; homophobia is prohibited.

And we do know this: too many Jewish girls and boys, Jewish women and men, have suffered too much for too long. And we know that most of that suffering is caused by the environment around them. We do know this: when we become judges of another person, we behave contrary to Torah law. 

https://www.chabad.org/library/article_cdo/aid/663504/jewish/Judaism-and-Homosexuality-Do-Homosexuals-Fit-into-the-Jewish-Community.htm

Jewish interpretation is very different from Christian. All of the 613 have equal weight. Being gay carries no more weight than doing work on the Sabbath or eating pork.

btw.. please note that the ban is only on men, which is kind of interesting. Not women, not pedophilia. That is inexplicable. 

 
 
 
Split Personality
5.2.5  Split Personality  replied to  livefreeordie @5.2.1    3 months ago
Attaching human choices to the animal kingdom is ridiculous, but some persist in it.

What a crock.  Have you ever hunted or fished?

Seen an "animal" do whatever is necessary to survive, escape or turn and fight?

Seen an animal express kindness to another, even a different species?

You delude yourself with human choices about gods......

 
 
 
livefreeordie
5.2.6  livefreeordie  replied to  Split Personality @5.2.5    3 months ago

Yes I have hunted and fished. And been a farmer, and had pets. That changes nothing that I stated

 
 
 
katrix
5.2.7  katrix  replied to  livefreeordie @5.2.1    3 months ago
We thus call upon our fellow Jews and fellow citizens to stand opposed to any attempt, whether judicial, legislative, or religious in nature, to bestow the sanctity of marriage upon same-sex couples.

The Torah itself does NOT prohibit premarital sex - just because some rabbis have decided to set their own rules as if they were gods doesn't make it true.  Hell, if we follow your rule, we should all commit incest, because after the imaginary flood there were so few people left that they were screwing their close relatives.

Why is it any of your fucking business?  Is your god such a bumbling fool that he can't handle it himself if it really bothers him that much?  We're talking civil licenses here - nobody's trying to force churches or synagogues to conduct marriages they disapprove of, such as between gay people, or between Catholics and Baptists or Catholics and Jews.

Do you plan to stone the millions of people who quite happily engage in sex without marriage?  Remember, straight people (according to your bonkers philosophy) who have sex outside of marriage are EVERY BIT AS IMMORAL as gay people.  So .. let's not allow them to marry either, correct? 

People who discriminate against others are immoral, plain and simple.  And the comments you quoted from that rabbis.org are insane.

 
 
 
Perrie Halpern R.A.
5.2.8  seeder  Perrie Halpern R.A.  replied to  katrix @5.2.7    3 months ago
People who discriminate against others are immoral, plain and simple.  And the comments you quoted from that rabbis.org are insane.

There are about other denominations even within the Orthodox community that don't follow this, never mind the Conservative, Reform, Reconstructionist, Mizrahi, etc: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_religious_movements

 
 
 
epistte
5.2.9  epistte  replied to  livefreeordie @5.2.1    3 months ago
Under no circumstances can Jewish tradition or law countenance a notion of so-called "Same-Sex Marriage" rituals or status under religious auspices. In our view, the term "marriage" by its very definition cannot be construed or applied to same-sex relationships. To do so is to deprive the term of its fundamental and defining meaning. The institution of marriage, and family life, as defined and practiced for thousands of years as between a man and a woman, a father and a mother, respectively, is far too important and essential to the bedrock of society and civilization as we know it, to be thus undermined by those who presume to redefine its essence. 

The state is not forcing any religion to perform a religious ceremony because a religious ceremony is not one of our constitutional rights.  The state has never forced any church to marry anyone, even if the couple in question was white, hetero and a member of the congregation, so you don't have to worry that the state could force you to marry an LGBT couple against your beliefs. 

 The Obergfell decision only applied to a secular marriage and not a religious sacrament of matrimony.

 
 
 
lady in black
5.2.10  lady in black  replied to  livefreeordie @5.2.1    3 months ago

Wrong, if you believe in God, he made all men/women so he made homosexuals, transgenders, no genders...etc.  

 
 
 
1stwarrior
5.2.11  1stwarrior  replied to  lady in black @5.2.10    3 months ago

And, after he did, he said _ "Oopps" and destroyed them.

Hmmmmm.

 
 
 
BeastOfTheEast
5.2.12  BeastOfTheEast  replied to  Perrie Halpern R.A. @5.2    3 months ago
Animals don't choose to be gay

Do you seriously think animals know if they're gay or straight? Animals have sex with whatever sex is available, they don't think " Hey, I'm gay" while humping a same sex animal. Have you heard of an exclusively gay animal besides the human animal?

 
 
 
lady in black
5.2.13  lady in black  replied to  1stwarrior @5.2.11    3 months ago

Really, who is being destroyed, as far as I know all the above mentioned are still here.  

 
 
 
Perrie Halpern R.A.
5.2.14  seeder  Perrie Halpern R.A.  replied to  BeastOfTheEast @5.2.12    3 months ago

Most birds mate for life. They just don't have random sex. In the bird world, there are gay couples. In fact, a penguin couple was trying hard to hatch a stone together. These animals have the same differences going on in their brains as do humans. How do you explain that?

https://www.nbcnews.com/feature/nbc-out/gay-penguins-kidnap-chick-straight-parents-denmark-zoo-n913611

 
 
 
katrix
5.2.15  katrix  replied to  BeastOfTheEast @5.2.12    3 months ago

Check out rams.  You'll find that just as with humans, about 10% of rams are apparently exclusively homosexual.  Also, among the animals who engage in both same-sex and opposite-sex mating, hormonal differences have been documented between those who engage in only opposite-sex mating. 

And dogs hump for a lot of different reasons - it's often just about dominance. 

 
 
 
Dismayed Patriot
5.2.16  Dismayed Patriot  replied to  lady in black @5.2.13    3 months ago
Really, who is being destroyed, as far as I know all the above mentioned are still here.

Maybe he's referring to the biblical claim of a global flood where God said he saw mankind that he created and regretting making them so he decided to destroy them all along with possibly trillions of innocent animals and species that would simply have no way of fitting on the supposed ark. I can only surmise that was the "Ooops" he's referring to.

 
 
 
†hε pε⊕pレε'š ƒïšh
5.2.17  †hε pε⊕pレε'š ƒïšh  replied to  Perrie Halpern R.A. @5.2.14    3 months ago

It turns out gay frogs are in fact real but it seems they are not genetic but environmental. The cause?  Atrazine in the water.

https://news.berkeley.edu/2010/03/01/frogs/

 
 
 
Dismayed Patriot
5.2.18  Dismayed Patriot  replied to  BeastOfTheEast @5.2.12    3 months ago
Animals have sex with whatever sex is available, they don't think " Hey, I'm gay" while humping a same sex animal.

Can you prove what an animal is or isn't thinking? If so that's much bigger news than an openly gay Presidential candidate.

Btw, homosexual behavior has been found in over 1500 species. It's not a "rare" thing by any means, and we don't have any evidence as to what they are "thinking" when they behave either heterosexually or homosexually.

https://www.dw.com/en/there-is-no-homophobia-in-the-animal-kingdom/a-39941960

 
 
 
†hε pε⊕pレε'š ƒïšh
5.2.19  †hε pε⊕pレε'š ƒïšh  replied to  Dismayed Patriot @5.2.18    3 months ago

For awhile Sea World had three Bisexuwhales.

 
 
 
†hε pε⊕pレε'š ƒïšh
5.2.20  †hε pε⊕pレε'š ƒïšh  replied to  Perrie Halpern R.A. @5.2    3 months ago
Did you ever have a gay thought?

Let me rephrase this question?

LFOD did you chub up at all during the intimate scenes in Broke Back Mountain?

 
 
 
BeastOfTheEast
5.2.21  BeastOfTheEast  replied to  Perrie Halpern R.A. @5.2.14    3 months ago
In the bird world, there are gay couples.

I seriously doubt they are consciously gay.

The link to the article you provided didn't say the Penguins were trying to hatch a stone, it said they kidnaped a straight Penguins baby chick. If they were trying to hatch a stone it would prove two things (1) They were too ignorant to know it was a stone (2) They didn't know they were gay.

 
 
 
†hε pε⊕pレε'š ƒïšh
5.2.22  †hε pε⊕pレε'š ƒïšh  replied to  BeastOfTheEast @5.2.21    3 months ago

You missed the documentary.  It's you-tube but it could be considered NSFW.

Animals have consciousness and after watching a few minutes of that you realize, they are consciously gay. 

 
 
 
Sunshine
5.2.23  Sunshine  replied to  BeastOfTheEast @5.2.21    3 months ago
They were too ignorant to know it was a stone

mmm...wonder where natural reproduction comes from? It seems more natural that a species would want to reproduce. 

 
 
 
katrix
5.2.24  katrix  replied to  Sunshine @5.2.23    3 months ago

Procreation is one of the strongest biological urges - but for many species, the sex drive is just as strong when no procreation is possible. 

I'm glad humans aren't one of those species where, if the father dies or disappears, the new male kills his offspring instead of raising them.

 
 
 
epistte
5.2.25  epistte  replied to  BeastOfTheEast @5.2.12    3 months ago
Do you seriously think animals know if they're gay or straight? Animals have sex with whatever sex is available, they don't think " Hey, I'm gay" while humping a same sex animal. Have you heard of an exclusively gay animal besides the human animal?

There are many animal species that display gay behavior, 

http://www.bbc.com/earth/story/20150206-are-there-any-homosexual-animals

Does the existence of gay people bother you? Do you feel that gay men might try to seduce you?

 
 
 
Sunshine
5.2.26  Sunshine  replied to  katrix @5.2.24    3 months ago

The sex drives purpose is to procreate.  Perhaps animals are catching up with humans, but from an evolution point sex drive was for survival not pleasure.  If copulation wasn't satisfying, most species including humans would have been extinct thousand of years ago.  

 
 
 
Ender
5.2.27  Ender  replied to  katrix @5.2.24    3 months ago

I am glad we are not like the praying mantis...

 
 
 
Dismayed Patriot
5.3  Dismayed Patriot  replied to  livefreeordie @5    3 months ago
classic sinners rationalization for their disobedience to God.   Most sinners

Ah yes, sinners, sinners, sinners! You've already jumped to the conclusion that anyone should give even two shits about what you define as sin. And then you waste our time quoting scripture that has ZERO to do with our laws. We are not a theocracy. Are they breaking any secular laws? Nope. Are they wanting "extra" rights? Nope. Is anyone demanding that you be gay? Nope.

You may want America to be more like the UAE or other Muslim countries, where blasphemy towards the Christian God is punishable and sin is legislated, but thankfully our founders wanted the exact opposite. They intentionally separated Church and State, they had seen how the two had operated in Europe for the prior thousand years and didn't want to repeat those same mistakes.

Once any religion can prove their God is real, and that their God is the arbiter of morality, then and only then, would I accept the excuse that something is a "sin" and thus should be banned by law.

 
 
 
katrix
5.3.1  katrix  replied to  Dismayed Patriot @5.3    3 months ago
Once any religion can prove their God is real, and that their God is the arbiter of morality, then and only then, would I accept the excuse that something is a "sin" and thus should be banned by law.

Exactly.  Notice how people invent their own gods (gods are created in human's image, not the other way around) and their immoral gods all hate the same things they hate?

 
 
 
katrix
5.4  katrix  replied to  livefreeordie @5    3 months ago
Fornication was defined by Judaism as all sex outside of the marriage of a man and a woman

Oh, please.  Virtually nobody these days falls for the crap about people having to be married to have sex.  And the Torah itself does not prohibit premarital sex.

 
 
 
livefreeordie
5.4.1  livefreeordie  replied to  katrix @5.4    3 months ago

As I noted previously, Orthodox Judaism disagrees with you

Pornea as used in the Greek Septuagint text of the Old Testament and in the Greek New Testament -Sexual immorality which includes homosexuality is clearly part of that definition and no amount of twisting words can change that.

All of these fell under the definition of fornication (found in Book of Leviticus)

"...against [a man] having union with his mother."

"...against [a man] having union with his sister."

"...against [a man] having union with the wife of his father."

"...against [a man] having union with another man's wife."

"...against [a man] copulating with a beast."

"...against a woman copulating with a beast."

"...against [a man] lying carnally with a male."

"...against [a man] lying carnally with his father."

"...against [a man] lying carnally with his father's brother."

"...against engaging in erotic conduct that may lead to a prohibited union. [That is, petting by persons whose marriage would be illicit.]"

While the Torah does not explicitly mention lesbianism, the Sages included it, along with other illicit sexual practices, to fall within the proscription of following in the ways of Egyptian traditions (Sifra Leviticus 18:3)

http://www.betemunah.org/noachide.html

A man and women are even prohibited from being in a closed room alone together if they are not married, a law called yichud, nor are they allowed to have physical contact (a law referred to as negiah).

 
 
 
katrix
5.4.2  katrix  replied to  livefreeordie @5.4.1    3 months ago
As I noted previously, Orthodox Judaism disagrees with you

Who the hell cares what Orthodox Jews think?  Extremist Muslims have similar views.  So do Extremist Christians.  And they're all nuts. 

Again, the Torah did not forbid premarital sex.

And the extremist whackjobs are hypocrites, since incest was very much supported by God's own actions.  First cousins would have been having sex - and children - with first cousins, which genetically we know is a very bad thing. 

So again, since single straight people having sex are every bit as immoral according to these whackjobs as gay people, shouldn't they be forbidden to marry too?  Maybe you should stone them?

 
 
 
Perrie Halpern R.A.
5.4.3  seeder  Perrie Halpern R.A.  replied to  livefreeordie @5.4.1    3 months ago
Pornea as used in the Greek Septuagint text of the Old Testament and in the Greek New Testament

Those are bad translations. Go directly to the Torah to find proper translations. 

There are no Egyptian traditions.

A man and women are even prohibited from being in a closed room alone together if they are not married, a law called yichud, nor are they allowed to have physical contact (a law referred to as negiah).

That is only a Hassidic practice. The only time men and women are closed off from one another is other orthodox traditions is in prayer since they don't want men to become distracted. 

 
 
 
Dismayed Patriot
5.4.4  Dismayed Patriot  replied to  livefreeordie @5.4.1    3 months ago
A man and women are even prohibited from being in a closed room alone together if they are not married, a law called yichud, nor are they allowed to have physical contact

In ancient Jewish marriage, a couple was considered "married" when they became betrothed. The actual marriage ceremony often consisted of a colorful procession from the brides fathers home, to the home of her betrothed where they would leave the crowd and go inside her new home and consummate the marriage while the processions partied outside. But who cares what they did back then, it has no bearing on what we choose to do in a secular society not bound by the Torah or any other religious doctrines. Are we to start burning the surviving widows along with their deceased husbands corpses just because that's been done by some people in other countries in the past? Why should anyone in any secular society agree to laws based on a specific religions doctrines?

Oh, and why, looking at the long "against a man having union with" list, does it conspicuously leave out "...against [a man] having union with his daughter."? It has just about every other variation of taboo copulation, but doesn't bother mentioning what most I think would be one of the more obvious "don't do's". Thoughts?

 
 
 
katrix
5.4.5  katrix  replied to  Perrie Halpern R.A. @5.4.3    3 months ago
That is only a Hassidic practice

Good point, the Hasidim are the really extremist Jewish sect.  Many Orthodox Jews are not nearly that extreme.

 
 
 
MrFrost
5.4.6  MrFrost  replied to  livefreeordie @5.4.1    3 months ago
"...against [a man] copulating with a beast." "...against a woman copulating with a beast."

That's just gross, and the fact that the OT covers it is even more disturbing. 

 
 
 
Tacos!
5.5  Tacos!  replied to  livefreeordie @5    3 months ago
Homosexual behavior clearly is self craving instead of obedience to God

So is a trip to Cinnabon, but I don't think anyone is going to Hell for either one. And by the way, I was attracted to my wife because she was hot, not because I was trying to obey God. I think that's true for most couples.

The cravings of the self-life are obvious: Sexual immorality, lustful thoughts, pornography

In what translation of the Bible are you finding the word "pornography?"

When you read the Bible as some kind of checklist of what to do and what not to do, you are missing the point. It's about being good to others and loving God instead of worshipping other things. It doesn't mean to abstain from anything that feels good. You can love God and still enjoy the things of life. You just don't prioritize them over more important matters. This is why going to a wedding with Jesus means never-empty glasses of good wine. Jesus enjoyed a good party just like anyone. (John 2:1-12)

Fornication was defined by Judaism as all sex outside of the marriage of a man and a woman

Not that precisely. The word is "porneio" and it was used in several contexts, but is probably more fairly thought of as a general term meaning "illicit sex," whatever that might mean. That could be adultery, prostitution, incest or idolatry, but it's not some kind of limitation based on heterosexual marriage specifically. Extreme legalism is contrary to Jesus' teachings.

 
 
 
r.t..b...
5.5.1  r.t..b...  replied to  Tacos! @5.5    3 months ago
Extreme legalism is contrary to Jesus' teachings.

Pharisees....be it one, two, or a whole gaggle of Corinthians. [you are nailing it today, crucifixion reference aside]

 
 
 
Don Overton
5.6  Don Overton  replied to  livefreeordie @5    3 months ago

Hiding behind particles of the bible for bigotry

 
 
 
†hε pε⊕pレε'š ƒïšh
6  †hε pε⊕pレε'š ƒïšh    3 months ago

In all fairness his bio says first openly gay presidential candidate. That is untrue, the first openly gay candidate for president was Fred karger.

 
 
 
Perrie Halpern R.A.
6.1  seeder  Perrie Halpern R.A.  replied to  †hε pε⊕pレε'š ƒïšh @6    3 months ago

OK so the bio got it a tad wrong. What do you think about what he has to say?

 
 
 
†hε pε⊕pレε'š ƒïšh
6.1.1  †hε pε⊕pレε'š ƒïšh  replied to  Perrie Halpern R.A. @6.1    3 months ago

I agree with what he said but he should remove the inaccurate information from his bio. 

 
 
 
Perrie Halpern R.A.
6.1.2  seeder  Perrie Halpern R.A.  replied to  †hε pε⊕pレε'š ƒïšh @6.1.1    3 months ago

I don't even see the bio you are talking about. Even so, I can not change what someone else had written. Take it up with the publisher. 

 
 
 
JohnRussell
6.1.3  JohnRussell  replied to  †hε pε⊕pレε'š ƒïšh @6.1.1    3 months ago

who cares?

 
 
 
†hε pε⊕pレε'š ƒïšh
6.1.4  †hε pε⊕pレε'š ƒïšh  replied to  JohnRussell @6.1.3    3 months ago

Are we a little grumpy today John?

We discuss the news, if that is uncomfortable for you I think the View is on. Be advised they too discuss the news.

 
 
 
JohnRussell
6.1.5  JohnRussell  replied to  †hε pε⊕pレε'š ƒïšh @6.1.4    3 months ago

You named an individual that no one has ever heard of.

Again , who cares if Fred Karger was the first gay candidate? I doubt if even you do.

 
 
 
†hε pε⊕pレε'š ƒïšh
6.1.6  †hε pε⊕pレε'š ƒïšh  replied to  JohnRussell @6.1.5    3 months ago
You named an individual that no one has ever heard of.

Everyone knows him, he was the first gay presidential candidate.

Besides it was on History channel during Gay History month. Get with the times....

 
 
 
†hε pε⊕pレε'š ƒïšh
6.1.7  †hε pε⊕pレε'š ƒïšh  replied to  Perrie Halpern R.A. @6.1.2    3 months ago
I don't even see the bio you are talking about. Even so, I can not change what someone else had written. Take it up with the publisher. 

I'm editing Wikipedia right now with proper citations.

 
 
 
Split Personality
6.1.8  Split Personality  replied to  †hε pε⊕pレε'š ƒïšh @6.1.7    3 months ago
On January 23, 2019, Buttigieg announced that he was creating an exploratory committee as a possible candidate for President of the United States in the 2020 election. Buttigieg is seeking the Democratic nomination.[53][54][55]If elected, he would be the youngest as well as the first openly LGBT American president.[56] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pete_Buttigieg#cite_note-exploratory-56
 
 
 
†hε pε⊕pレε'š ƒïšh
6.1.9  †hε pε⊕pレε'š ƒïšh  replied to  Split Personality @6.1.8    3 months ago

I will see your Wiki and raise you a Wiki https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fred_Karger

Fred S. Karger (born January 31, 1950) is an American political consultantgay rights activist and watchdog, former actor, and politician.[1] His unsuccessful candidacy for the Republican nomination for the 2012 US Presidential election made him the first openly gay presidential candidate in a major political party in American history.[2][

 
 
 
Trout Giggles
6.1.10  Trout Giggles  replied to  †hε pε⊕pレε'š ƒïšh @6.1.9    3 months ago

A small, minor point, Counselor....

SP states in his comment that if elected, he would be the youngest as well as the first openly LGBT American president.

Your guy is the first to actually run as a gay man....but he did not get elected.

 
 
 
†hε pε⊕pレε'š ƒïšh
6.1.11  †hε pε⊕pレε'š ƒïšh  replied to  Trout Giggles @6.1.10    3 months ago

I hate to lean on my disability but i have fyshlexia.

They may have recently changed the context as i submitted a citation before SP posted the link.

Remember kids, when using Wiki, badfish is a top rated contributor there.  (I suspect wiki will not be a source for many of you now)  

I am also a top rated contributor at the Urban Dictionary.

 
 
 
Don Overton
6.1.12  Don Overton  replied to  †hε pε⊕pレε'š ƒïšh @6.1.9    3 months ago

I see you fighting that I doubt you understand

 
 
 
†hε pε⊕pレε'š ƒïšh
6.1.13  †hε pε⊕pレε'š ƒïšh  replied to  Don Overton @6.1.12    3 months ago

I see you are fighting sentences.

 
 
 
WallyW
6.2  WallyW  replied to  †hε pε⊕pレε'š ƒïšh @6    3 months ago

Here in Colorado our new governor, Jared Polis,  is a gay Jew.

The only thing that bothers me about him is that he is a far left liberal.

 
 
 
r.t..b...
6.2.1  r.t..b...  replied to  WallyW @6.2    3 months ago
Jared Polis,  is a gay Jew. The only thing that bothers me about him is that he is a far left liberal.

Then why the additional adjectives? Your contention your disdain is based solely on his liberalism (which you have every right to believe) becomes instantly clouded with your initial description. If they have no bearing on your opinion, let it be.

 
 
 
Perrie Halpern R.A.
6.2.2  seeder  Perrie Halpern R.A.  replied to  r.t..b... @6.2.1    3 months ago
Wally: Here in Colorado our new governor, Jared Polis,  is a gay Jew. rtb: Then why the additional adjectives?

I think the point that Wally is trying to make is that he doesn't have an issue with him being a gay Jew but rather his politics. I could be wrong though. 

 
 
 
WallyW
6.2.3  WallyW  replied to  Perrie Halpern R.A. @6.2.2    3 months ago
You're exactly right Perrie...

 
 
 
Dismayed Patriot
6.2.4  Dismayed Patriot  replied to  WallyW @6.2.3    3 months ago
You're exactly right Perrie...

But is the request for LGTBQ Americans to be treated with equality the political position that makes them "far left" as some conservatives seem to argue? That seems to be a major issue many religious conservatives have with liberals and progressives, that we don't see what they claim is some gay agenda being forced on them or that gay persons are demanding extra rights or to be treated as if they're "special". What percent of conservatives complaint about the so-called "far left liberal" is based on the lefts general belief that we should treat gay persons just like any other law abiding tax paying citizen? Or should we consider that position to be centrist now?

 
 
 
Don Overton
6.2.5  Don Overton  replied to  Dismayed Patriot @6.2.4    3 months ago

But is the request for LGTBQ Americans to be treated with equality the political position that makes them "far left" as some conservatives seem to argue?

Of course it is

 
 
 
Tacos!
6.3  Tacos!  replied to  †hε pε⊕pレε'š ƒïšh @6    3 months ago
his bio says

Link? I've been to his website, and it doesn't even mention him being gay. Karger is a Republican, so Buttigieg might be the first openly gay Democrat to run. If nominated, he would be the first openly gay nominee.

 
 
 
†hε pε⊕pレε'š ƒïšh
6.3.1  †hε pε⊕pレε'š ƒïšh  replied to  Tacos! @6.3    3 months ago

Good point.

I'm going to add that to Wikipedia when i get a moment.

 
 
 
†hε pε⊕pレε'š ƒïšh
7  †hε pε⊕pレε'š ƒïšh    3 months ago
 
 
 
It Is ME
7.1  It Is ME  replied to  †hε pε⊕pレε'š ƒïšh @7    3 months ago

"Buchanan argued that a federal slave code should protect the rights of slave-owners in any federal territory."

"Special" people can be so "Hateful" at times. jrSmiley_89_smiley_image.gif

 
 
 
Tacos!
7.2  Tacos!  replied to  †hε pε⊕pレε'š ƒïšh @7    3 months ago

OK that is a pretty cool link.

 
 
 
MUVA
8  MUVA    3 months ago

[delete]

 
 
 
epistte
8.1  epistte  replied to  MUVA @8    3 months ago
[delete]
 
 
 
†hε pε⊕pレε'š ƒïšh
8.1.1  †hε pε⊕pレε'š ƒïšh  replied to  epistte @8.1    3 months ago

Do you think he has had gay thoughts? That's usually the root cause, no pun intended.

 
 
 
epistte
8.1.2  epistte  replied to  †hε pε⊕pレε'š ƒïšh @8.1.1    3 months ago
Do you think he has had gay thoughts? That's usually the root cause, no pun intended.

I think that Mike Pence is so deep in the closet he is abused by wire hangers on an hourly basis.  He is too fixated on LGBT people to be otherwise.

 
 
 
†hε pε⊕pレε'š ƒïšh
8.1.3  †hε pε⊕pレε'š ƒïšh  replied to  epistte @8.1.2    3 months ago

Well when someone usually starts quoting bible porn verses to stop their own gay, I become very suspect.

 
 
 
MUVA
8.2  MUVA  replied to  MUVA @8    3 months ago

There is no way in hell a post should be removed that is on topic like My was.Pence has never uttered a ill word to mayor Pete and the mayor attacked him anyway Pete is a A hole in my opinion for doing that.

 
 
 
Perrie Halpern R.A.
8.2.1  seeder  Perrie Halpern R.A.  replied to  MUVA @8.2    3 months ago

MUVA,

You are free to discuss that in any article that you want to post. He didn't attack Pence. He attacked his beliefs on being gay. If you would like to address that, that is fine.

 
 
 
MUVA
8.2.2  MUVA  replied to  Perrie Halpern R.A. @8.2.1    3 months ago

Then why was comment removed that is far from free Pete attacked mike pence you can call it what you want.Pence has only had positive things to say about Pete.

 
 
 
Trout Giggles
9  Trout Giggles    3 months ago

I want to say something that bothered me very much yesterday afternoon on my way home. The local right wing talk show host decided to feature Mayor Buttigieg on his show last night.

The radio asshole had the gall to quote Corinthians I or II where Paul lumped all sorts of criminals in with homosexuals. The radio asshole made much of this. What bothered me about it is that Gays don't hurt anyone. Criminals and adulterers do. It's unfair to lump criminals, adulterers and Gays into the same pile.

And if I could have, I would have told that same radio asshole that Jesus never said a word about homosexuality. Paul did, but Paul is not Jesus, now is he?

 
 
 
†hε pε⊕pレε'š ƒïšh
9.1  †hε pε⊕pレε'š ƒïšh  replied to  Trout Giggles @9    3 months ago

I agree, massive dick move by the radio host.

 
 
 
Dismayed Patriot
9.2  Dismayed Patriot  replied to  Trout Giggles @9    3 months ago
What bothered me about it is that Gays don't hurt anyone. Criminals and adulterers do. It's unfair to lump criminals, adulterers and Gays into the same pile.

It's what some in the religious conservative movement have done for about as long as anyone can remember. Most recently, the past half century or so, one of the most common implication from religious conservatives has been that "gay" should be considered synonymous with "pedophile" (even though the vast majority of sex abusers are heterosexual).

"Researcher Carole Jenny found, in a 1994 study, that “a child’s risk of being molested by his or her relative’s heterosexual partner is 100 times greater than by someone who might be identified as homosexual.” Of the 93,000 sexually abused kids in the US in 1999 (the last year of available statistics), half of the children were sexually abused by their parents (Sandusky), while other relatives committed 18 percent of the offenses. In other words, sexual orientation isn’t a factor in determining child sexual abuse."

https://stopabusecampaign.org/2017/03/10/most-sex-abusers-are-heterosexual/

 
 
 
Perrie Halpern R.A.
10  seeder  Perrie Halpern R.A.    3 months ago

I am sorry people but I have to close the article since I have no one to moderate it. Thanks for your participation. 

 
 
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