New York Times: Tax documents show Trump businesses lost more than $1 billion in a decade
In 1990 and 1991, Trump's core business losses were more than $250 million each year -- more than double those of the closest taxpayers in those years, the Times reports.
S E E D E D C O N T E N T
Washington (CNN)President Donald Trump's businesses reported losses of $1.17 billion from 1985 to 1994, The New York Times reported Tuesday, citing information from tax documents from those years.
It appears Trump lost more money than nearly any other individual US taxpayer year after year, the Times reports, according to the 10 years of tax information the newspaper acquired.
Trump ran for president branding himself as a self-made billionaire, touting his financial success, but he has been steadfast in his refusal to release his tax returns to the public, despite mounting pressure from Congress. On Monday, Treasury Secretary Steven Mnuchin formally denied a request from the House Ways and Means Committee for Trump's last six years of tax returns, a period not covered by the documents reported by The Times on Tuesday.
In 1990 and 1991, Trump's core business losses were more than $250 million each year -- more than double those of the closest taxpayers in those years, the Times reports.
Trump lost so much money that he avoided paying income taxes for eight of the 10 years, according to the newspaper.
The Times previously reported that Trump helped "his parents dodge taxes" in the 1990s, including "instances of outright fraud," and that he and his siblings helped his parents hide millions of dollars in gifts in a "sham corporation."
Trump, starting at the age of 3, received at least $413 million in today's dollars from his father's real estate empire, the Times previously reported.
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I think eventually Trump will end up in prison, unless he runs out the clock and dies of natural causes first.
I prefer the former but I'll take the latter.
Well, he is a modern day Al Capone so maybe while he's in prison his syphilis will also progress and he'll die either in prison or shortly after being released to a mental hospital due to his disease ravaged brain.
The billion in losses proves Trump is not only a monumental narcissist but also one of the biggest losers in history. He's nothing but a fraud and survives not on business acumen but on lying to whoever the next investor is and suing the last investors he screwed over into silence.
You do realize this dud of a story is about something that happened almost 30 years ago??
Do you realize that Trump built his entire personal on the BS in 'The Art of the Deal" which he touts ad nauseam?
You do realize this is probably still happening right now? Only one way to prove it, his word means nothing. Actually if he says he did it he didn't, and vice versa. That's how he lies. He conned everybody (who wasn't paying attention). Put up the proof or he's still doing it.
Though I am a bibliophile, no book with Trump's name on it will ever be on my list.
I'm reading D.H. Lawrence's The Rainbow right now.
And now the actual author of the book thinks it should not be re-published or branded fiction.
Really? How is that logical?
As I said, I'm a bibliophile but I'd never say I've read or even reviewed every book on any given subject. As an example, years ago I read Toland's 2 volume Hitler bio. It is the only Hitler bio I will ever read.
Additionally, Trump proclaims ad nauseam that, all evidence to the contrary, he's the 'best deal maker' but I can't say that I've ever heard him say that he made the 'best comeback'. Maybe that's because he bankrupted 2 more of his casino corps. after his 'comeback'.
Which he wasn't even smart enough to write.
The only book that Trump really actually wrote is this one.
Well gee FW, the only 'great deal' I've ever claimed to make was an exchange for a day of landscaping for a brand new washer and dryer.
Apply away.
First there is a MASSIVE mistake here. It talks about Trump's business taxes and then claims he lost the money. A business only loses money due to an individual IF and only IF they are committing embezzlement. In truth business can be successful even if losing money due to depreciation and investments and other things that are part of write-offs. A loss on tax forms means nothing regarding profitability. It only means that the write-offs were greater than the taxable profits./income.
tom, the information is about Trump's PERSONAL taxes. He uses his 'business' losses to zero out his 'personal' income. Neither he or you can have it both ways.
Did you bother reading the first line of the story? It says Trump's businesses, then later it says Trump's personal taxes. So, which is it that they are talking about. You can use business losses as tax write-offs on personal taxes.
Do you bother to read about what has been given you so you don't have to make things up
tom, a business set up as a 'partnership'. like Trump org and the plethora of other subsidiaries, does not pay taxes, the partners pay taxes on their percentage of the business.
As the Times article states:
See there tom. Daddy claimed a loss on his PERSONAL income taxes, for his investment in a partnership with his incompetent son's project.
[deleted]
Funny thing here is that a Tax Attorney/CPA stated the same points I made in an interview with Graham Ledger on The Daily Ledger Wednesday 5/8/2019.
EDIT: However, he or Graham made the additional point that these tax returns were from the 1980s with much different rules regarding losses and write-offs than we have today.
Which is relevant how?
Everything Trump has ever touched, he has ruined.
Trump’s nickname #Brokeahontas trends worldwide
There are five takeaways from the report and Trump’s reaction.
First, Trump’s former attorney Michael Cohen testified that Trump would undervalue properties for tax purposes and overvalue them when seeking bank credit. Was he engaged in tax, insurance and/or bank fraud? New York state officials are investigating , but Congress has more reason than ever to review his tax returns in conjunction with Cohen and testimony from the Trump Organization’s chief financial officer, Allen Weisselberg. Treasury Secretary Steven Mnuchin’s refusal to produce the returns as required by law becomes more outrageous given the serious concerns raised about the president’s finances. Congress should use all means at its disposal to obtain the returns and should hold Mnuchin in contempt as a deterrent to future treasury secretaries.
Second, the report should cause Democrats to redouble legislative effort to force Trump and all future presidents to follow the practice of recent presidents regarding release of their tax returns. State ballot provisions requiring the president to disclose his taxes are of unclear constitutionality. Congressional legislation is necessary. The House could decide to attach a provision requiring disclosure to must-pass legislation including appropriations bills, thereby forcing Republicans to defend Trump’s financial coverup.
Third, the emoluments litigation brought by about 200 members of Congress may proceed to discovery soon , unless Trump’s attorneys are able to stay proceedings and get the D.C. Circuit to intervene. That should allow the plaintiffs to get a range of financial information, including tax returns. It seems likely that, one way or another, Trump will lose his ability to conceal his financial history.
Fourth, the extent of his tax losses revives the question about how Trump got out of his debt and where his money came from in the late 1990s and early 2000s. The Post reports :
Did foreign banks or investors help bail him out? This, too, should be a top concern for the House.
“The story not only explodes the myth of Donald Trump as a successful businessman. It also shows how skilled he is at perpetuating a lie,” Max Bergmann of the Moscow Project tells me. “For more than 30 years he convinced everybody — the press, banks, investors, the stock market and the American public — that Donald Trump was this great business success, when in fact he was losing money at a truly shocking rate.” He adds, “It shows he is an incredible con man able to live two lives. He is someone who can never be taken at his word, and this means examining his taxes and financial records is an urgent national security imperative.”
Finally, do not expect the revelations to dim the Trump cult’s reverence for its leader. If he isn’t really as rich as he said, they will commend him for pulling a fast one (even on voters). If the story is false, it’s one more bit of evidence for their media paranoia. Sadly, the Fox News and talk-radio crowd long ago jettisoned any concerns that they’ve invested their hopes in a con man, someone who has lied and finagled his way through life and into the White House. To admit that would be to recognize they were dupes, victims of another Trump scam. That, they will never do.
Trump has never been convicted or any crime, nor has the IRS ever accused him of not paying his taxes.
Read it and weep
Do post a link for where Trump was indicted for tax fraud.
If you CAN.
LOL!
We'll have to wait for the NY AG investigation to be completed. We already know his charity was a fraud, as was his bogus university. So it's not a great leap to assume that he's perfectly willing to commit tax fraud as well, although it's too soon to say for sure that he did - or didn't - commit tax fraud.
Yes, yes, yes. Wait. Wait. Wait.
Like we had to for the Mueller "bombshell" report?
LOL!
There is a good chance that Trump won't ever be indicted for tax fraud.
Hell, he might be dead of natural causes before that ever happens.
I'm pretty sure that the second that the Cuomo signs the law, the House Committee Chairs will issue subpoenas for Trump's NY taxes. Remember that they already have information on his loan submissions to banks. If they don't match up, it would be bank fraud, one of the charges Manafort went down for.
There is one more YUGE avenue for information, Trump Org's CFO, Allen Weisselberg. He was given limited immunity. If they dig up more dirt that he participated in, a good bet, he either cooperates of gets prosecuted. I lean toward cooperates. How long before Trump starts to attack him? 3,2,1...
Yep. Things will move pretty quickly.
Why post such nonsense that has ABSOLUTELY NOTHING TO DO WITH TRUMP'S TAXES??????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????
Pretty sure that trump will be charged with obstruction of justice soon.
"In 1990 and 1991, Trump's core business losses were more than $250 million each year"
It's like no one with that kind of financials, EVER lost money.
I hear Buffett has lost now and again. Bet Mr. Buffett USES the tax codes too, but that wouldn't be prudent to find out.
"Warren Buffett Has Lost $11.2 Billion -- in 1 Week
The Oracle of Omaha has lost an 11-figure sum during this correction, but it probably doesn't bother him much.
How 'bout's that richy rich New York Times Family huh ? What have they Lost/Gained/Abused ?
This is just another one of those "Stupid" articles that tries to paint Trump as a Loser.
His uuuuuge Jet and helicopter are Pretty.
Lost money, yes it happens. Lost that much money, that consistently, no. Trump is a level of loser never before seen, he is tops in his ( loser ) field.
From your own link:
Of course, there are some major caveats here. Buffett or Berkshire didn’t really lose $11 billion or possibly even a dollar in the market downturn. Just like you didn’t either. These are all paper losses.
Not to mention that if you want to compare, you would have to show him losing money year after year after year .
He is a loser. You are trying to compare Trump who loses hundreds of millions of dollars every year, to others who have had A loss.
It's like comparing someone who has a single drink once a week, to a full time alcoholic. It's not the same. Apples and bicycles.
You are saying Trump lost actual cold hard "Cash" ?
Note to mention the fact that the link cites Berkshire's losses, which is publicly traded corporation, NOT Buffet's.
The article is about Trump's losses, NOT the Trump Org's, a 'partnership' which doesn't pay taxes, losses.
So in reality, Trump's taxes only document a PERCENTAGE of the losses by Trump Org.
Oh and BTW, the pretty plane and helicopter are owned by Trump Org., NOT Trump.
No, you are. I never mentioned cash.
You sure did !
Re-read your own typing's.
I did not use the word "cash" anywhere in my comment.
My own "typing's"....what?
Are you trying to say for me to re-read my own comment? Re-read what I typed? Re-read the words I used in my comment?
Your Google translate doesn't seem to be working correctly.
But anyway, I did re-read it and can confirm that "Cash" is absolutely nowhere in my comment. Is this just another blatant lie by you to try and make your fake point?
Luv Madness methods.
Soooo, he didn't lose cash/Money, but like Buffett, it was just on paper !
"Of course, there are some major caveats here. Buffett or Berkshire didn’t really lose $11 billion or possibly even a dollar in the market downturn. Just like you didn’t either. These are all paper losses ."
Wow, so utterly pathetic. You can't support your own point, so you are backtracking and spinning as fast as you can.
Did Trump Lose money just on Paper too ?
Or was it cold hard cash ?
Is it only those you like, that when they lose, it is only paper ?
Go away and take your pathetic deflection attempt with you.
Stumped ya huh.
Yup, stumped on on why you even bother to butt into other people's conversations with nothing but pathetic and ignorant attempts to to hijack or deflect from the subject of the conversation.
Was Trumps loses on PAPER like Buffett's, or was Trumps loses in cold hard cash ?
Did the article note any Trumps Positive gains so we could compare it to their "Zealous" Loss rantings ?
Honest people would want to know stuff like that.
When you're proven wrong time and time again you just keep digging your heels in and
You should read Comment # 3.3.10 before ASSuming !
True, but it makes Mr. Trump what he loathes most, A LOSER!
Maybe if one concentrates on just the loses, and leaves out all the gains.
Do his loses outweigh his gains ?
No. If they did I'm sure he'd want to prove it. Instead, just more lies. The biggest loser is leading the country.
Why should he placate to idiots ?
I don't.....do you ?
Which gains?
The Russian money laundering?
The NRA/Russian money laundering?
Which is why he won't release the last 5-10 years.
So why hasn't the IRS come looking for him?
The look at ALL his tax and financial information.
Apparently he has paid all taxes that were due.
So once again, what's the point of 30 year old information?
The whole point is the Great and Wondrous Mueller didn't do what they wanted---give them a reason to impeach Trump, so now they will simply throw a bunch of crap at walls and see if anything sticks.
So Warren Buffett had a period of losses in the stock market in 2015.
The article about Trump is not referring to stock value dropping, it is referring the inability of properties Trump owned to produce enough revenue to put him in the black. Two different things.
it says no such thing. Ya gotta have both "Positives" and "Negatives" to prove that idiotic point.
Then perhaps you would like to point out the POSITIVES.
Which Trump ventures made money (note: you cannot include his illegal ones), and how much did they make? You can't show them as being positive unless you can show them as making enough money to put them in the black.
Losses aren't taxable.
Trump is President !
The rest of your statement is just avoiding the FACT the article didn't do that, so I guess in your mind, someone MUST ?
Which has absolutely nothing to do with this conversation, as usual.
So the one positive you could come up with is that Trump was a freeloader.
Then be more specific if you don't like my response to your SIMPLE non-specific question.
How can I be more specific? IT WAS YOUR CLAIM THAT THERE ARE POSITIVES!! When I asked for an example, the only thing you came up with to support YOUR CLAIM was to state that is allowed Trump to be a freeloader , a welfare queen (in other words). You consider that as a POSITIVE???
I claimed no such thing.
[deleted]
You are correct, you did not CLAIM such, but you ARE the one that brought POSITIVES into this conversation about Trump's failures.
flag him
Yep, all good businessmen lose 250 million a year..... All good businessmen also file for bankruptcy at least 5 times
1) Bill Gates - 0.
2) Tim Cook - 0.
3) Ted Turner - 0.
4) Warren Buffet - 0.
5) Paul Allen - 0.
Hmm....gotta be one rich guy out there that has filed for bankruptcy at least 5 times....
Oh yea...
6) Donald J. Trump - 5.
Never mind.
Did he file for bankruptcy?
Yep, and we all know that Amazon and Bezos are completely broke, and filed for bankruptcy... Right?
# 4 Did lose ……. Billions for that matter. Didn't you read the link I provided ?
No one ever loses "Zero" in their lifetime.
"Bill Gates Files For Chapter 7 Bankruptcy"
“Minor setback, no big deal,” Said Gates. “I might not have billions of dollars laying around anymore, but I am sure I won’t be going hungry any time soon, don’t worry.”
Buffett ain't no saint either:
"KKR, TPG Capital, Goldman Sachs and other co-investors bought the utility in 2007 for $45 billion — at the time the biggest buyout in US history — but lost a total of $8.3 billion after it was forced to file Chapter 11 bankruptcy in April 2014.
Even Warren Buffett’s Berkshire Hathaway wrote off nearly $1 billion in loans to the company as it went broke."
Did they file for bankruptcy? Pretty simple question.
Seems Gates did. Didn't you read the link ?
Buffett just wrote off billions per the "Tax Code" allowances.
Now what is it Trump did that Broke the law again ?
5 times? What was his net worth at the time?
Did I say he broke any laws? Pretty sure I didn't.
The response was to "Bankruptcies, not net worth.
......GOP Mantra: Profits are private, losses are public...
Got to wonder how all our Trumpers here feel about having to support Trump through their taxes.
Seems to fit well given Trump's line...... "Other people's money?"
“.....GOP Mantra: Profits are private, losses are public...”
The first thing that came to my mind when reading that was Solyndra.
Which you and other republicans brought up constantly as a bad thing. Now Trump doing it is a good thing?
Oh, look the market is taking another shit today.
I don’t know what you are talking about I’m opposed to all government guaranteed loans and cronyism. That half a billion of taxpayers money lost on Solyndra never should have left the taxpayers pockets. Trump has been working at keeping that money in the taxpayers pocket so government can’t waste it like they did with Solyndra.
No, all of the tax codes and laws are written to protect and defend the wealth at the top. They buy the politicians and get their protections passed. Privatize the profits, socialize the losses. THAT is what we see Trump doing, what the average American doesn't get to choose. Trump isn't doing jack to change anything that jeopardizes that benefit for himself and his cronies.
"In 2011, solar panel company Solyndra defaulted on a $535 million loan guaranteed by the Department of Energy. The agency had a few other high-profile bankruptcies, too — electric car company Fisker and solar company Abound among them. But now that loan program has started turning a profit.
Overall, the agency has loaned $34.2 billion to a variety of businesses, under a program designed to speed up development of clean-energy technology. Companies have defaulted on $780 million of that — a loss rate of 2.28 percent. The agency also has collected $810 million in interest payments, putting the program $30 million in the black."
" There was an FBI raid on Solyndra's headquarters and an investigation but, so far, no prosecutions. Now that the loan program is turning a profit, those critics are silent. "
Now that the U.S. Energy Information Administration (EIA) has published complete energy statistics for 2016, the public can evaluate the effect of President Barack Obama’s energy policies and the market conditions they encouraged. These data provide a baseline for charting future progress—and obstacles to that progress—along several important dimensions, including:
If only everyone was able to read, comprehend and accept the facts here. Sadly, either poor reading comprehension, illiteracy, or just seething hatred for a black President will keep some from accepting the truth.
This is a pattern of behavior for Trump. This is why he refused to release 5 or 10 years of tax returns. He never really believed he would win the election, so on the campaign trail he made false promises saying he would release his returns. He never believed he would win and never believed he would have to release them. So instead of being transparent, he lies, refusing to inform the American people by releasing them. His returns will reveal at the very least, he is guilty of tax fraud.
Oh bullshit!
If he was cheating on his taxes, the IRS would have been, and still would be, all over his butt.
Interesting since he has said himself he has been under audit for the last 4 years, and that's why he can't release his taxes... Which is, of course, a lie.
So the IRS, with a veritable army of tax experts, audited Trump and what were the results?
Hear about any indictments?
If trump would release them, we would know, right?
Trump is under no obligation to release them just to satisfy you.
And I don't see how anyone can honestly think that if something were seriously wrong with his taxes that it wouldn't have leaked by now.
Oh but the IRS is and the eventually will.
Did you READ the seeded article? IT LEAKED! Sheesh.
So that's a yes, thanks.
Yes, Dulay, I did.
Please link any info you have that proves Trump cheated on his federal income tax returns.
I await your proof.
Please don't do us like Rachel did, either. All that excitement just to be monumentally let down.
You are welcome.
Do you really need to be told that if you looked at Trump's returns, you would know what was in them?
But you can't make Trump release them to you.
And you know something else hilarious?
All the people who were screaming that the Russians hacked Democratic emails and what a national emergency that was because (GASP_ they published STOLEN material.
I notice the same folks are mighty quiet when it comes to someone publishing stolen material because they think it shows Trump did something wrong--which, of course, no has had the common decency to prove.
I never stated that I had such information so why ask me?
What do you want proof of Tex? What you imagined I said?
Us WHO Tex?
If you're excited, you brought it on by your own fantasies.
I didn't say you did, but I asked because it seems like you get kind of worked up over Trump's taxes for some reason or other.
I thought I made it clear with this: "Please link any info you have that proves Trump cheated on his federal income tax returns."
Are you unclear as to what I asked? Do I need to explain it to you? I've got time if I really need to explain THAT sentence to you.
Us as in anyone not batshit crazy over Trump's taxes.
Sue me. I must have been swept up in the rampant hysteria created by the release of Trump tax returns showing he paid taxes.
So what was wrong with Trump's taxes?
Anything at all, or are folks just all worked up over NOTHING again?
What was the first thing that was hilarious?
So you think it's hilarious to equate Russians hacking Americans for WHATEVER reason to a leak of 30 year old IRS materials about Trump. Wow, you've got a unique sense of humor Tex.
BTW, the thing that Trump did wrong that is proven by the IRS material is that he's been LYING for decades. I know that's become normalized in Trump world, but in MY world, lies are STILL wrong.
I found your reply to be hilarious.
That whooshing noise you might be hearing is the point going over your head.
Yes, your hatred of Trump is well established.
This isn't about what is wrong with Trump's taxes Tex. It's about what is wrong with Trump. He is a con man and a LIAR. The leaked documents PROVE that he's been lying about his success for decades.
But hey Tex. If you accept that Trump is a galactic liar and don't give a shit, so be it.
I don't and won't.
Oh and please save me the tired old bullshit that 'they all lie'. Any thinking person can recognize that Trump's shit is on a level never before seen in this country.
Is that why you replied to it TWICE?
So your point wasn't to equate the two? Oh please, do explain it so even I can understand your cogent point Tex.
You mistake disgust for hatred.
You've met my expectations. Well done.
No, I was laughing so hard I hit my send button by accident!
See? I knew you didn't get it!
My POINT was that the same folks all up in arms over STOLEN emails have NO PROBLEM with stolen tax returns.
I hope that isn't too hard for you to grasp.
You're welcome!!!
That is obviously false Tex?
Oh my bad. You just think it's hilarious to COMPARE the Russians hacking Americans to leaked 30 year old IRS documents about Trump.
Wow, that's SO MUCH BETTER. /s
Thanks so much for clarifying it Tex.
Why are you asking me?
At this point, I just have to assume you are being obtuse.
I wish that were true--I really do.
Perhaps had I done a better job, you would see the point I made. (/S)
Dulay, you will never satisfy some people and they will just keep on with their bs. Two ways of tuning them out: Hit your avatar and ignore them or flag them for trolling or whatever.
It's good that I don't care if I satisfy anyone then isn't it?
We all need a hobby.
I don't ignore members, I'm not here to be in an echo chamber.
In fact, there are some that I count on for my daily dose of belly laughs.
I do flag yet most of my flags are for violations on replies that aren't even addressed to me.
Why are you posting obviously false comments?
Did you compare those two things or not Tex?
Oh I got your 'point' just fine Tex. I merely pointed out that it is a false equivalency which is in no way funny, much less hilarious.
So, for Democrats its all about the money? Notice the Democratic emphasis on financial performance subject to taxation rather than on jobs, business creation, or impact on communities. The Democratic Party has become nothing more than promoters of finance and crony capitalism.
1990-91 marked a recession followed by a jobless recovery. The jobless recovery provided Ross Perot a forum for an independent Presidential campaign. Bill Clinton won the 1992 election in the midst of the jobless recovery on promises of free trade, globalization, and strengthening the financial sector. Clinton did not receive anywhere near a majority of the popular vote; Clinton won on electoral votes. Bill Clinton transformed the Democratic Party into a party of finance.
Since Clinton, Democrats have focused their political efforts on bolstering financial profits that can be subjected to taxes. Since Clinton, Democrats have not been friendly towards manufacturing or job creation in producing sectors of the economy. Democrats politically favor technology, automation, and free trade to replace jobs and increase financial profitability. Democrats have told working America that the jobs are gone and are not coming back.
The Democrats' interest in Donald Trump's financial performance is a legacy of Clinton politics. For Democrats its all about the money, nothing else matters.
[delete]
Maybe this is why Trump is pushing for Ivanka to head the world bank, a new source of money for good ole dad to buy more paintings of himself like he did with campaign funds.
Trump, is a con man, always has been, always will be, this we know.
Here is the bad news...
If you believe a con man? You're the mark.
So the "tax documents" is nothing more than a company report to a newspaper and not actual tax documents.
Not a real reliable source either.
LOL!!!