Just how much is $250 billion in tariffs?

  
Via:  perrie-halpern  •  2 weeks ago  •  260 comments

Just how much is $250 billion in tariffs?
Explore our interactive database to see how the tariffs will affect you — and the economy.

S E E D E D   C O N T E N T


By Ben Popken and Jiachuan Wu

From tractor parts to tilapia, magnets to mirrors, President Donald Trump ratcheted up existing tariffs Friday on billions of dollars of imported Chinese goods from 10 percent to 25 percent -- and threatened to add additional tariffs that would leave American manufacturers and consumers paying higher prices on almost everything the country imports from China. What exactly does a hit on that many billions in goods look like?

To show the economic stake of each of the $250 billion in items already being taxed, NBC compiled a searchable database of the tariffs along with their import values for 2015-2017. The bigger the dollar amount, the more the U.S. economy spends on these goods.

The damaging impact on the U.S. economy of Trump’s trade war with China


Please use the link for interactive database

The U.S has levied a total of $250 billion in tariffs against goods and merchandise made in China. How are these additional taxes affecting consumers and the U.S. economy in general? NBC News compiled a list of all import categories targeted to date, along with their value from 2015-2017, to show the extent to which tariffs are impacting Americans’ pocketbooks.

The tariffs represent part of President Donald Trump's leverage to compel Beijing to reform its "unfair" trade practices, including alleged intellectual property theft.

The most impacted products are electronics parts, which represent a hit on $100 billion worth of goods, followed by $8 billion in wooden furniture, $6 billion in upholstered seats, $6 billion in aluminum car tire wheels, and $5 billion in vacuums.

Seafood is also under siege: The U.S. imports billions of dollars worth of seafood from China every year, and the tariffs are affecting popular menu items such as $177 million in peeled crawfish tail meat, $104 million in sole fillets, and $104 million in catfish.

American appetite for Chinese-made handbags could also take a drubbing under the list, which represents about half of the $500 billion worth of goods the U.S. imports from China annually. The list levies tariffs on over $2 billion in plastic handbags, $1.7 billion in leather handbags, and $2.3 billion in handbag components.

The database also includes over 1,000 categories that haven't been imported for the past three years. Those items included agricultural products like chicken, eggs, and some types of fish, along with industrial products like wooden railroad ties and yarn.

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FLYNAVY1
1  FLYNAVY1    2 weeks ago

The cost at shopping at Walmart is going to jump 25%, and bean farmers throughout the Midwest are going to get hurt especially hard.

We'll see how that plays out in the voting booth.  Personally I don't see that it's going to impact their votes as I see the Republicans are still pushing the wedge issues of God, gun, gay bashing and abortion to distract their base while they write laws to siphon more money to the wealthy.  Status Quo....

 
 
 
MUVA
1.1  MUVA  replied to  FLYNAVY1 @1    2 weeks ago

It is better to let China steal over 500 billion dollars in intellectual property every year right?

 
 
 
FLYNAVY1
1.1.1  FLYNAVY1  replied to  MUVA @1.1    2 weeks ago

From any direction you look at it MUVA...… Americans are going to get hurt, and there is nothing anyone on the face of this earth is going to change how much the Chinese steal in intellectual property.  

China has the world by the balls from the standpoint of rare-earth magnets.  We need them, they have them.  All they need to do is squeeze.

 
 
 
Bob Nelson
1.1.2  Bob Nelson  replied to  MUVA @1.1    2 weeks ago
It is better to let China steal over 500 billion dollars in intellectual property every year right?

You're right that IP should be the big topic. Unfortunately, I haven't seen much about IP in Trump's declarations.

A good confrontation on IP would include the other interested parties, notably the EU. But Trump has alienated our allies, as though he wants to go it alone. I don't understand.

 
 
 
Freedom Warrior
1.1.3  Freedom Warrior  replied to  FLYNAVY1 @1.1.1    2 weeks ago

 From a Geo political standpoint China is fucked if the United States chooses to make them so and they know it ... agricultural, oil and all the other intellectual property that United States dominates that’s what there after of course. Demographically they have the same ugly scenario playing out, the time is right to deal them the cards they so richly deserve it and guess what  none of the other administrations Republican or Democrat had the  Nads to do anything about it and now we do, hoorah. 

 
 
 
Perrie Halpern R.A.
1.1.4  seeder  Perrie Halpern R.A.  replied to  Freedom Warrior @1.1.3    2 weeks ago

Walk thought Macy's, Target, and Walmart and tell me that the balance is equal again.

Here is how it shakes out:

320

https://www.marketwatch.com/story/heres-all-the-stuff-the-us-imports-from-china-thats-causing-a-huge-trade-deficit-2018-03-23

 
 
 
Freedom Warrior
1.1.5  Freedom Warrior  replied to  Perrie Halpern R.A. @1.1.4    2 weeks ago

 You can’t really seriously believe that that makes any difference whatsoever in this discussion.  Thankfully I’ve had a lot more exposure to this than that silliness. 

 
 
 
Perrie Halpern R.A.
1.1.6  seeder  Perrie Halpern R.A.  replied to  Freedom Warrior @1.1.5    2 weeks ago

Yes, I am very serious since numbers don't lie and announcing something is silly isn't making your case. Make your case. 

 
 
 
Freedom Warrior
1.1.7  Freedom Warrior  replied to  Perrie Halpern R.A. @1.1.6    2 weeks ago

 Well first you’re going to have to expose yourself to probably a weeks worth of geopolitical discussions on this topic and then we can probably reconvene.

 
 
 
Ender
1.1.8  Ender  replied to  Perrie Halpern R.A. @1.1.4    2 weeks ago

There goes cheap flat screen tvs.

 
 
 
Ender
1.1.9  Ender  replied to  Freedom Warrior @1.1.7    2 weeks ago

You do not know what she or anyone else knows.

It is called assuming....then dismissing.

 
 
 
Perrie Halpern R.A.
1.1.10  seeder  Perrie Halpern R.A.  replied to  Freedom Warrior @1.1.7    2 weeks ago

That is another non-answer. This doesn't require even a day's worth of geopolitical discussions on this topic. This is quite simple in economic terms. It's a balance sheet of what we send to them and what they send to us.

 
 
 
Perrie Halpern R.A.
1.1.11  seeder  Perrie Halpern R.A.  replied to  Ender @1.1.8    2 weeks ago
There goes cheap flat screen tvs.

Funny you say that. We need to get one and I told the hubby that he better get it ASAP.

 
 
 
Ender
1.1.12  Ender  replied to  Perrie Halpern R.A. @1.1.11    2 weeks ago

I need one too and thought the same.

 
 
 
Freedom Warrior
1.1.13  Freedom Warrior  replied to  Perrie Halpern R.A. @1.1.10    2 weeks ago

 You know it’s as if you didn’t even read my original comment and just went to some knee-jerk talking point that you picked up in passing somewhere and then you     Accuse me not responding your non sequitur.  I’ll engage on my terms  and when I determine if it’s appropriate to do so. 

 
 
 
Perrie Halpern R.A.
1.1.14  seeder  Perrie Halpern R.A.  replied to  Freedom Warrior @1.1.13    2 weeks ago

No. What you are doing is not responding to my questions or queries because you are engaged in sealioning. Unlike you, I don't make knee jerk comments and I only respond to facts. Bring me a fact, and I will respond. Otherwise, please take your sealioning elsewhere.

Any further sealioning will get flagged by me.

 
 
 
Ender
1.1.15  Ender  replied to  Freedom Warrior @1.1.13    2 weeks ago

The only point you have made was to say that China will be hurt and we have an advantage.

Guess what, I disagree.

China has their tentacles in more and more places around the world while the US withdraws. China is now more involved in South America than we are. The US producing oil does not have much of an impact on them as they can just buy from Iran.

They are not as weak as some like to say.

 
 
 
Freedom Warrior
1.1.16  Freedom Warrior  replied to  Ender @1.1.9    2 weeks ago

 I know what you don’t know. Unfortunately too many don’t.

 
 
 
Ender
1.1.17  Ender  replied to  Freedom Warrior @1.1.16    2 weeks ago

And yet you will not expand. So no conversation is possible.

 
 
 
TᵢG
1.1.18  TᵢG  replied to  Freedom Warrior @1.1.13    2 weeks ago
I’ll engage on my terms  and when I determine if it’s appropriate to do so. 

A belligerent non-answer from 'Chris'.   Who would have thunk?   

Your original comment @1.1.3:

From a Geo political [geopolitical] standpoint China is fucked if the United States chooses to make them so and they know it ... agricultural, oil and all the other intellectual property that United States dominates that’s what there after of course. Demographically they have the same ugly scenario playing out, the time is right to deal them the cards they so richly deserve it and guess what  none of the other administrations Republican or Democrat had the  Nads to do anything about it and now we do, hoorah. 

China is dependent upon US agriculture since the US is the source for almost 20% of their agricultural imports.    On Oil ... we only supply about 2.8% of their imports.   Detail your position on 'other intellectual property' and maybe we can respond to it.

China's dependence on USA agricultural products (round up to 20%) can be compared with the USA's dependence on Chinese electrical products (round down to 60%).   That is not an excellent position.

Your simple listing of "agricultural, oil and all the other intellectual property ... " is the start of an explanation.  You have provided an opening vague claim and a simple conclusion (China 'fucked' more than USA).   Now would be the time to develop your conclusion as to why China is 'fucked' but the USA is not (in a reciprocal sense) 'fucked'.

 
 
 
Bob Nelson
1.1.19  Bob Nelson  replied to  Perrie Halpern R.A. @1.1.4    one week ago

Excellent graphic.

People still think of 1980s China - big population, but poor. That epoch is long past. By the measures most commonly used by economists (which take account of nations' purchasing power differentials) China's economy is already considerably bigger than the US's, and the gap is growing. The US is still bigger per capita, but that's not what counts here. Here we're talking brute economic power, and China has more.

Trump does not understand trade (im-)balances. He thinks that a deficit with China means that American money is going to China. Ummm... yes, Donald... but there are all those big TVs coming from China to the US. By definition, international trade is a wash, an accounting equality.

When Trump puts a tariff on those TVs, all he is doing is making them more expensive for American families!

Sadly... we see that there are an awful lot of Trump supporters, including all those here on NT, who do not understand international trade any better than Trump does. They are gleeful at the idea of "tariffs on China!", unaware that they will pay those tariffs...

 
 
 
Freedom Warrior
1.1.20  Freedom Warrior  replied to  Ender @1.1.15    one week ago
China has their tentacles in more and more places around the world while the US withdraws

That I agree on and that is essentially because they know they are screwed domestically if they don't.  That's the essence of their stragegy.  Now what you need to do is dig deeper to understand why that is the case.  

I have done my research and have no need for somebody else's shallow conclusions. You are all welcome to do your own, but I won't assume that anybody here will however. 

 
 
 
Freedom Warrior
1.1.21  Freedom Warrior  replied to  TᵢG @1.1.18    one week ago

So am I to assume from that that you don't understand what is occuring economically in China and want someone to explain it to you?   

 
 
 
Bob Nelson
1.1.22  Bob Nelson  replied to  Freedom Warrior @1.1.21    one week ago

Yeah, TiG!

D'ya think ya need a few economics lessons from this fine gentleman?

 
 
 
Freedom Warrior
1.1.23  Freedom Warrior  replied to  Perrie Halpern R.A. @1.1.14    one week ago

First I am not aware of any question or queries.  Your posting of some blurry third party virtually unreadable list of what appears to be exports is of no value to me.  I have my own sources of data which come along with doing many hours of research.   

Next the only Sea Lions I am familiar with are here.

https://lajollamom.com/la-jolla-seals/

More to the point, what we know about China at this pint is they have backtracked on virtually every important concession they had made in prior trade negotiations. by virtue of numerous edits to a nearly 150-page draft trade agreement effectively blowing up months of negotiations and sparking an escalation in the trade war. These were princiapally in the areas of U.S. intellectual property and trade secrets; forced technology transfers; competition policy; access to financial services; and currency manipulation. 

So China said tariffs will increase to 10%, 20% or 25% for most of the roughly 5,000 plus U.S. products on which it currently imposes levies of 5% or 10%. Goods that China will charge at 25% include animal products, frozen fruits and vegetables and seasonings. Goods it will charge at 20% include baking condiments, chemicals and vodka. Tariffs will stay at 5% for certain items, including vehicle parts, medical equipment and farm equipment such as tractors.  For now, China is not extending to items that aren't currently subject to levies, notably aircraft such as Boeing Co. jetliners and U.S. crude oil.

Now in the long run none of this really matters to me. I don't think people realize how little we sell to China because they won't let us and as a result the relative lack of impact it would have on corporate earnings here.  And by the way their retaliation list is rather pathetic exposing their ultimate lack of firepower.  

It's now apparent to me that many do not appear to grasp the vulnerability China has in the longer run. They will likely panic at the thought of buying product from elsewhere and will hear dire predictions from dishonest media pundits against a backdrop of stock market volatility.  The trick will be to profit from that volatility and  as a consolation for some they can take joy in seeing AAPL get hammered.

Do with that as you wish.  I have no further interest in your highly offensive comments manfuctured out of whole cloth.

 
 
 
JBB
1.1.24  JBB  replied to  Freedom Warrior @1.1.21    one week ago

Bluster and insults are hardly a counterargument. You'll have to try harder...

 
 
 
Freedom Warrior
1.1.25  Freedom Warrior  replied to  Bob Nelson @1.1.19    one week ago

That's just another example of how shallow the critique is here, reducing the matter to someon'e TV purchase when there are far bigger issues at stake.

 
 
 
Bob Nelson
1.1.26  Bob Nelson  replied to  Freedom Warrior @1.1.25    one week ago

Have a nice life...

 
 
 
Freedom Warrior
1.1.27  Freedom Warrior  replied to  Bob Nelson @1.1.22    one week ago

I seriously doubt anyone needs another rant about how Marx and socialism are just misunderstood.

 
 
 
Tessylo
1.1.28  Tessylo  replied to  Freedom Warrior @1.1.3    one week ago

You claim be the expert on just about anything.  

 
 
 
Trout Giggles
1.1.29  Trout Giggles  replied to  Tessylo @1.1.28    one week ago

jrSmiley_91_smiley_image.gif

 
 
 
TᵢG
1.1.30  TᵢG  replied to  Freedom Warrior @1.1.23    one week ago

Netting down your only thoughtful post in this thread:

  • China has not honored its past trade concessions.   TRUE.   
  • China has threatened tariff increases up to 25% on certain items.   TRUE.
  • U.S. sells relatively little to China (compared to what we should be doing) and thus corporate earnings are not that vulnerable to the tariffs.    TRUE.

These few facts, however, do not explain your original comment @1.1.3:

From a Geo political [geopolitical] standpoint China is fucked if the United States chooses to make them so and they know it ... agriculturaloil and all the other intellectual property that United States dominates that’s what there after of course. Demographically they have the same ugly scenario playing out, the time is right to deal them the cards they so richly deserve it and guess what  none of the other administrations Republican or Democrat had the  Nads to do anything about it and now we do, hoorah. 

You implied that China would be 'fucked' because of the US sourced imports of agricultural products, oil and 'other intellectual property'.    I noted that the USA is indeed responsible for almost 20% of China's agricultural imports, but oil from the USA is almost a non-issue at 2.8%.   Your explanation makes no mention of your opening list (except to note that China -as we all know- engages in intellectual property theft).   Your facts do not make an argument for why China is 'fucked'.

But at least your response was not simply snark followed by running away.   So that is an improvement IMO.

Now if I were to argue that China is 'fucked'  (although this declaration exaggerates their weaknesses) I would identify the most obvious weakness of China in trade negotiations with the USA.   Our economy is currently robust whereas their economy is soft.   Thus we can absorb some economic hits whereas China is on the verge of losing the momentum of its fledgling economic recovery.   Stalling their recovery brings all sorts of political problems and further weakens their ability to negotiate with trade partners.    

 
 
 
TᵢG
1.1.31  TᵢG  replied to  Trout Giggles @1.1.29    one week ago

“And any man who must say 'I am king' is no true king at all.”  — George R.R. Martin

 
 
 
Perrie Halpern R.A.
1.1.32  seeder  Perrie Halpern R.A.  replied to  Freedom Warrior @1.1.23    one week ago
Now in the long run none of this really matters to me. I don't think people realize how little we sell to China because they won't let us and as a result the relative lack of impact it would have on corporate earnings here.  And by the way their retaliation list is rather pathetic exposing their ultimate lack of firepower.

The stock market is still disagreeing with you. The farmers disagree with you. Tech stock disagrees with you. We are the at risk. Just look at the chart I gave you, and see how little they need us. As for IP, you have to read the WIPO to tell that not only is China is winning at this, there is no way to really stop it. Maybe sanctions would help with that, but not the amount that Trump is proposing. 

And while we are talking about Geo-political, China is in the lead and not us. They have made lots of large loans to small countries that can't pay them back, but have strategic waterways that are needed for transportation of good. When these countries can't pay the Chinese back, they ask in exchange, control of the water in that region. Then they make you pay a toll to use it. 

https://qz.com/1223768/china-debt-trap-these-eight-countries-are-in-danger-of-debt-overloads-from-chinas-belt-and-road-plans/

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/06/25/world/asia/china-sri-lanka-port.html

https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2018-12-26/china-take-over-kenyas-largest-port-over-unpaid-chinese-loan

 
 
 
Krishna
1.1.33  Krishna  replied to  Ender @1.1.8    one week ago

There goes cheap flat screen tvs.

Maybe not.

IIRC, originally Trump seemed to want companies doing manufacturing in China to move their plants to the U.S.

But recently, while that is still his ultimate goal, it seems that he has been sending the message that since his main target is China, he might be OK with American companies in China leaving China-- no matter where they go. In other words, since his target is China, he's be Ok if they left China and went elsewhere even if its not the U,.S.

So in order to avoid specific anti-China tariffs, some  companies will be other places where labour is cheap-- for example Viet-Nam, India, etc.

(While the trade war might hurt both the U.S. as well as the Chinese economy-- it might start to benefit other countries such as India and some in SE Asia! Which means Americans migth still be able to eat their cheap TVs and have them too!). 

 
 
 
Krishna
1.1.34  Krishna  replied to  Perrie Halpern R.A. @1.1.11    one week ago

Funny you say that. We need to get one and I told the hubby that he better get it ASAP.

Some companies have resorted to "front-loading". That is, they have anticipating tariffs for a long time-- so they've been buying more Chinese goods each month then they normally would. (Doing this to stock up on Chinese goods before the tariffs hit).

I believe a lot of this has been going on with Soybean farmers, for example.

(Of course the supplies of those pre-tariff-increase items will eventually run out).

 
 
 
TᵢG
1.1.35  TᵢG  replied to  Freedom Warrior @1.1.27    one week ago

jrSmiley_78_smiley_image.gif

Good grief, how badly can one miss a point?   The point is:  if you are going to use a term, understand what it means.    In particular, as people run about crying that they see 'socialism' and 'Marxism' at every turn, they not only show profound ignorance (socialism and/or Marxism is not a threat to the USA; never have been, likely never will be) but they absolutely fail to focus on the real short term threats (which have nothing whatsoever to do with socialism).    Fixation on colloquial, slogan level definitions (many and inconsistent) of a term instead of understanding the underlying factors at play right now is just a dumb way to operate.

 
 
 
livefreeordie
1.1.36  livefreeordie  replied to  Perrie Halpern R.A. @1.1.32    one week ago

Sure there is short term pain but politicians from both parties have let China run wild against us for decades.

if we don’t stand up to them now, it will never happen and we will become their slaves

thank God Trump is willing to stand up to them

i lived and worked in the early 90s in Taiwan and witnessed this power grab by China ramp up. I watched Bill Clinton give away Miltary technology to China

https://www.pulitzer.org/winners/staff-45

https://capitalresearch.org/article/flashback-bill-clinton-gave-china-missile-technology/

 
 
 
Bob Nelson
1.1.37  Bob Nelson  replied to  livefreeordie @1.1.36    one week ago
i lived and worked in the early 90s in Taiwan and witnessed this power grab by China ramp up.

I was unaware that Taiwan is now under Beijing's control. I hope someone tells Tim Cook.

 
 
 
livefreeordie
1.1.38  livefreeordie  replied to  Bob Nelson @1.1.37    one week ago

Nowhere in my post did I state or even make a suggestion of what you claim. [deleted]

 
 
 
Jack_TX
1.1.39  Jack_TX  replied to  Bob Nelson @1.1.19    one week ago
China's economy is already considerably bigger than the US's, and the gap is growing.

What metric are you using?  

US GDP is still pretty significantly higher than China's.

 
 
 
Jack_TX
1.1.40  Jack_TX  replied to  Perrie Halpern R.A. @1.1.32    one week ago
The stock market is still disagreeing with you. The farmers disagree with you. Tech stock disagrees with you. We are the at risk.

Meh.  I think they are at risk more than the average American.

Companies that have moved production to China to save costs are now going to see those costs increase (presuming the tariffs last very long, which I personally doubt).  The markets had priced stocks of those companies based on profits, which will take a short term hit, which presents a great opportunity for calm, long-term investors.

The facts are that China manipulated it's currency for decades and is still pirating the rest of the world's IP like mad.  I'm not a big fan of tariffs, and I'm not sure they'll solve these problems.  If you have a better way to drive the Chinese to a fair trade deal, I'm all about it.  In the meantime, the damage they're likely to do to the average American is overblown, IMO.

 
 
 
Freedom Warrior
1.1.41  Freedom Warrior  replied to  Perrie Halpern R.A. @1.1.32    one week ago
The stock market is still disagreeing with you. The farmers disagree with you. Tech stock disagrees with you.

No The market is agreeing with me as I stated here.

They will likely panic at the thought of buying product from elsewhere and will hear dire predictions from dishonest media pundits against a backdrop of stock market volatility.

Volatility and other overreactions.

but have strategic waterways that are needed for transportation of good

Which I generally referred to previously in my response to Ender.

They can be truly conniving SOBs that can't be trusted and that helps explain why they backed away from the deal they negotiated when they realized the enforcement mechanisms were not going to allow themselves to lie, cheat and steal their way out of it.

And like I also stated they are doing so out of recognition of the long term demographic problems and other economic issues.  i.e. they know they're fucked if they don't do something about it. 

Now having come full circle we fortunately we have someone in the oval office willing to put an end to their ruthless unscrupulousness.

Hopefully, we have put and end to this as well.

 
 
 
Perrie Halpern R.A.
1.1.42  seeder  Perrie Halpern R.A.  replied to  livefreeordie @1.1.36    one week ago

LFOD,

This will not be short term pain. It will be long term. 

And in no way am I advocating for letting China run amok. I have said this several times before.. maybe I should just copy and paste. 

You don't do this with a massive tariff. You do this by both negotiations AND incremental tariffs. 

Also, no one seems to read any of the links I give them. 

So answer me this.... is your mind made up and you are just pushing an agenda, or is this a discussion?

 
 
 
Perrie Halpern R.A.
1.1.43  seeder  Perrie Halpern R.A.  replied to  Jack_TX @1.1.40    one week ago
Companies that have moved production to China to save costs are now going to see those costs increase (presuming the tariffs last very long, which I personally doubt). 

What would indicate that?

The markets had priced stocks of those companies based on profits, which will take a short term hit, which presents a great opportunity for calm, long-term investors.

Again, what would indicate that? And please it's not that I agree or disagree.. I just don't know how anyone can be sure either way.

The facts are that China manipulated it's currency for decades and is still pirating the rest of the world's IP like mad.  I'm not a big fan of tariffs, and I'm not sure they'll solve these problems.  If you have a better way to drive the Chinese to a fair trade deal, I'm all about it.  In the meantime, the damage they're likely to do to the average American is overblown, IMO.

Jack, China is in for the long game. They will own a bulk of the shipping waterways. We will never be able to stop them (or any other country) from messing with IPs. Just look at Russia, India, Pakistan... the guy next door. And yes I am all for making China have a fair deal,... that they will keep. This is not the way to do it. Negotiations while small incremental increases is the way to go, so they feel the pinch, without putting American consumers and farmers into shock.

 
 
 
Perrie Halpern R.A.
1.1.44  seeder  Perrie Halpern R.A.  replied to  Freedom Warrior @1.1.41    one week ago
No The market is agreeing with me as I stated here.

OK, so you missed that over 600 point drop with virtually no correction today.

They will likelypanic at the thought of buying product from elsewhere and will hear dire predictions from dishonest media pundits against a backdrop of stock market volatility.

I don't know who you are quoting but not me. I never said that.

They can be truly conniving SOBs that can't be trusted .......

Did I say otherwise? 

And like I also stated they are doing so out of recognition of the long term demographic problems and other economic issues.  i.e. they know they're fucked if they don't do something about it. 

You know what they say about underestimating your enemies. They are hardly in a bind. 

 
 
 
Freedom Warrior
1.1.45  Freedom Warrior  replied to  Perrie Halpern R.A. @1.1.44    one week ago

All three major indexes were up substantially today. This exchange is over.

 
 
 
Jack_TX
1.1.46  Jack_TX  replied to  Perrie Halpern R.A. @1.1.43    one week ago
What would indicate that?

The presence of the tariff they have to pay to bring those goods into the US.  I'm not sure I understand the question.

Again, what would indicate that? And please it's not that I agree or disagree.. I just don't know how anyone can be sure either way.

So let's say you sell widgets and you moved manufacturing to China to reduce costs.  As a result, you've reduced your prices, become more competitive, and sold more goods.  Now, those goods are facing a 25% tariff.  Your choices are:  Lower your own prices to try to keep your goods competitive, thus eating into your profits.  Or....Pass the tariff through to US consumers, which means you'll sell fewer products and so your profits will go down.

The price of your publicly traded stock is based on the expectation of your profits, which are certainly going down, so your stock is going to drop. 

Now...your company is not managed any worse than it was last week, and the tariffs are certainly not going to last forever, so eventually you will return to normal profits.  In the meantime, investors who were calm and calculated will see a 700 point drop in the Dow as a buying opportunity and snap up your stock (and many others) at a discount.  One of those investors will be a guy named Warren Buffet, who is famously "greedy when others are fearful".  Another one of those will be some schmo named Jack_TX who isn't nearly that smart but figures Warren must know what he's talking about so following his advice is probably a good idea.

Jack, China is in for the long game.

Sure.  They also know that if this goes on long enough, all that manufacturing they do is going to get re-routed to Malaysia or the Philippines or Mexico or someplace else with cheap labor but doesn't cheat.

They will own a bulk of the shipping waterways.

Maybe.  Don't you imagine other countries are going to see that ploy and take steps to avert it?  Don't you imagine the US and Germany and other economic powers are going to step in and help them avert it?

We will never be able to stop them (or any other country) from messing with IPs. Just look at Russia, India, Pakistan... the guy next door.

You don't find India or Pakistan or Mexico making blatant knock offs of Range Rovers or BMWs.  Here is a Land Rover Evoque.

Evoque-yellow_2447514b.jpg

 Now meet the "Land Wind".  These bastards have no shame.

Range-Rover-Evoque.jpg

And yes I am all for making China have a fair deal,...that they will keep. 

Well they threw out all the enforcement provisions of the deal they agreed to.  They're not going to keep any deal unless we make them.

This is not the way to do it. Negotiations while small incremental increases is the way to go, so they feel the pinch, without putting American consumers and farmers into shock.

As you said, China is in this for the long haul.  They know they can wait out any US president who attempts incremental pressures.  That said, the Trump tariffs have actually been incremental.  This is at least round 2.  

American consumers are not going to go into shock.  There will still be plenty of Mexican and Malaysian and Pakistani crap to buy at WalMart.  They might even have some American stuff to buy.

American farmers might feel a pinch, which can easily be alleviated by a small govt subsidy.  Meanwhile other American businesses are thriving because they're competitive again.  The US economy is roaring, so if we're ever going to do something about this, now is the time.  

I don't know that tariffs are the best idea. I know I don't have a better one. I also know that China cannot enact enough tariffs to dent the US economy.  They buy about $120 billion/yr.  Our GDP is $20 trillion.  We spend more on Medicare fraud than the total amount of US goods they buy.    

 
 
 
Bob Nelson
1.1.47  Bob Nelson  replied to  Jack_TX @1.1.39    one week ago

"Purchase power GDP"

 
 
 
Bob Nelson
1.1.48  Bob Nelson  replied to  Perrie Halpern R.A. @1.1.42    one week ago
You do this by both negotiations AND incremental tariffs.

And... in cooperation with one's allies... oh wait...

.... is your mind made up and you are just pushing an agenda, or is this a discussion?

What is this strange word, "discussion"?  jrSmiley_87_smiley_image.gif

 
 
 
Jack_TX
1.1.49  Jack_TX  replied to  Ender @1.1.15    one week ago
Guess what, I disagree.

The numbers are kinda on his side.  China's exports to the US account for nearly 5% of their GDP.  Our exports to China account for about .4% of our GDP.

China has their tentacles in more and more places around the world while the US withdraws.

We're not actually withdrawing from other places.

China is now more involved in South America than we are. The US producing oil does not have much of an impact on them as they can just buy from Iran.

The US producing so much oil helps them.

They are not as weak as some like to say.

No.  But they're not as strong as some think, either.

What they are is dishonest as fuck.  I don't claim to know how to fix that, but something needs to be done.

 
 
 
Ender
1.1.50  Ender  replied to  Jack_TX @1.1.49    one week ago

Once they raise a tariff, do you think it will ever go down? At least to what is was before. I say no. One because the government will get use to the cash flow.

Yes we do a lot of business with China yet we are not the only ones. China does business with most of the world. China has an emerging middle class.

What we could end up doing is just hurting us both.

Are they dishonest as fuck? Who is to say that we have never been. We do not exactly have a stellar track record.

My whole point has been that we ourselves end up paying for all of this. And who would actually benefit in the long run? One answer, corporations. Not we the people.

We are stuck with the tab.

Oil could be a whole nother discussion, so I think we should pass on that for now.

 
 
 
Buzz of the Orient
1.1.51  Buzz of the Orient  replied to  Jack_TX @1.1.46    one week ago

The very first car I saw when I left the airport when I first came to China was a Rolls Royce.  Later I saw that they made fake Rolls Royces here.  However, the one I saw was real and since then I've seen more than I ever saw in North America.  Over the years I've seen a lot of amazing cars here.  There are many Mercedes, Cadillacs, Maserati Quattroportes, Porsches, Jaguars, REAL Land Rovers, BMWs etc - I mean LOTS of them, NEW ones. (My wife's brother drives a new BMW SUV.)

512

https://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/2012/01/fake-in-china-rolls-royce-phantom-for-39000/

 
 
 
Bob Nelson
1.1.52  Bob Nelson  replied to  Buzz of the Orient @1.1.51    one week ago

Great link!

 
 
 
Tessylo
1.1.53  Tessylo  replied to  Freedom Warrior @1.1.41    one week ago
'to their ruthless unscrupulousness'

Wow - that's Donald Rump and his gop administration right there.  

 
 
 
Freedom Warrior
1.1.54  Freedom Warrior  replied to  Jack_TX @1.1.46    one week ago

And they would understand all of those things if they chose to do some research instead of flailing about in a phony moral panic.

 
 
 
Perrie Halpern R.A.
1.1.55  seeder  Perrie Halpern R.A.  replied to  Freedom Warrior @1.1.45    one week ago
All three major indexes were up substantially today. This exchange is over.

Are you kidding? Down over 600 points the day before and up 6 points today is hardly a correction.

 
 
 
Perrie Halpern R.A.
1.1.56  seeder  Perrie Halpern R.A.  replied to  Jack_TX @1.1.46    one week ago

Jack,

I understand economics so I understand the dynamics of our plants in China. What you seem to be missing from the equation is all the other stuff we buy from China. Walk through any department store and you will see nothing but "Made in China". Our farmers are already on the dole for billions. And components that are made in China but are assembled in the USA. All of those things affect us directly. 

And yes they do knock off cars. And although that is annoying, it is not like they are stealing from us. What they are doing is protectionism. They make it there and that makes them more self-sufficient and that is WHY they are winning at this war. 

They're not going to keep any deal unless we make them.

You can't make anyone do anything unless there is an incentive for them. They will wait out these tariffs. Just look at how little they import from us.

American farmers might feel a pinch, which can easily be alleviated by a small govt subsidy.

We have been subsidizing them and we are going to be doing it for billions more.

I don't know that tariffs are the best idea. I know I don't have a better one.

I don't think they are a bad idea, but like any idea, it's how they are executed. Negotiating while increasing bit by bit would be far more effective than making it into a war. They would have gotten the message, and it wouldn't do too much damage to our economy. 

 
 
 
Perrie Halpern R.A.
1.1.57  seeder  Perrie Halpern R.A.  replied to  Freedom Warrior @1.1.54    one week ago
And they would understand all of those things if they chose to do some research instead of flailing about in a phony moral panic.

Stop with your condescending comments that add nothing to the discussion. 

 
 
 
Jack_TX
1.1.58  Jack_TX  replied to  Ender @1.1.50    one week ago
Once they raise a tariff, do you think it will ever go down?

Oh yeah.  Absolutely.  

At least to what is was before. I say no. One because the government will get use to the cash flow.

The thing about huge taxes is that they drive behavior.  So if they last long enough, companies will start shifting production away from China to other locations that are not subject to the tariff.

Yes we do a lot of business with China yet we are not the only ones. China does business with most of the world. China has an emerging middle class.

Exactly.  That middle class is currently dependent on manufacturing jobs.  The rest of the world isn't booming like we are right now

What we could end up doing is just hurting us both.

Temporarily, maybe a little.  But neither side is going to want to keep this up for long.  Eventually they'll cut a deal and we'll all move forward.  

Are they dishonest as fuck?

Hell yes.  China produces 80% of the world's counterfeit products.  It's estimated to be over $1 trillion/yr.

Who is to say that we have never been. We do not exactly have a stellar track record.

I'm not sure how that matters.  I'm also not very good at feeling guilty about shit...especially when I haven't actually done it myself.

My whole point has been that we ourselves end up paying for all of this. And who would actually benefit in the long run? One answer, corporations. Not we the people.

Lots of American companies get way more competitive when Chinese companies can't undercut them anymore.   Those employees benefit, and the people in the local economies where they spend their money benefit.

We are stuck with the tab. Oil could be a whole nother discussion, so I think we should pass on that for now.

Well...as I said... I'm not sure tariffs are the best idea.  I just don't have a better one.  I do think the supposed calamity they will bring is wildly overstated, especially considering how strong our economy is currently.

 
 
 
livefreeordie
1.1.59  livefreeordie  replied to  Perrie Halpern R.A. @1.1.42    one week ago

This is a discussion. I oppose tariffs in principle except in cases like this where it is being used as a negotiating tool with a country that is playing hardball with us

china needs the US more than we need them and their economy is slowing.   There may never be a better time than this to be really tough and with little if any bending with them. They only understand toughness or surrender and I prefer toughness

furthermore we should be weaning ourselves off of consumer dependence on them.   More self sustaining efforts is also a direction we should be moving towards

 
 
 
livefreeordie
1.1.60  livefreeordie  replied to  Perrie Halpern R.A. @1.1.32    one week ago

China is losing this fight with Trump

“China’s economy lost steam in April, underscoring the fragility of the world’s second-largest economy as it girds for an intensified face-off with the U.S. over trade.

Industrial output, retail sales and investment all slowed more than economists forecast. The state sector continued to boost investment while private business eased off, and growth in manufacturing investment came in at the slowest pace in data dating back to 2004.

Faltering credit and consumption at home coupled with a weaker global economy means China is running out of steady growth engines right when it needs them. The soggy data spurred expectations the government will need to boost stimulus to cushion the blow from the escalating trade war, sending Asian stocks mostly higher. The yuan was little changed

“The double dip is confirmed,” said Lu Ting, chief China economist at Nomura Holdings Inc. in Hong Kong. “We expect Beijing to significantly ramp up easing/stimulus measures to stabilize financial markets and bolster growth, despite the more limited policy room than in previous easing cycles.”

President Xi Jinping faces failure to meet the Communist Party’s long-term growth target of doubling 2010 gross domestic product by next year on the back of the hit from Trump’s new tariffs, according to a survey of economists. 2019 gross domestic product growth will be lowered by 0.3 percentage point by the rise in U.S. tariffs on $200 billion of imports from China. If more tariffs are introduced to cover all Chinese goods, that will cost 0.6 percentage point in the 12 months after, according to the median estimates of those polled.”

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-05-15/china-s-economy-lost-momentum-even-ahead-of-trump-s-new-tariffs?srnd=premium

 
 
 
Freedom Warrior
1.1.61  Freedom Warrior  replied to  Perrie Halpern R.A. @1.1.55    one week ago

No I'm not kidding.  That's the fucking volatility I specifically mentioned and apparently you have chosen to ignore.  And it won't be for a few days either. 

The Dow was up over 200 points yesterday or about .8% similar to the S&P 500.   the Nasdaq was up over 1%. Today, the Dow was up over 115 (.45%) and the Nasdaq was up again over 1%.  Do you even know what day you are on.

I was trying to spare you the embarrassment, but no, you have to argue for no reason at all.   It truly is tiresome which is why I said this exchange was over, yet there you are again.

 
 
 
Jack_TX
1.1.62  Jack_TX  replied to  Perrie Halpern R.A. @1.1.56    one week ago
What they are doing is protectionism. They make it there and that makes them more self-sufficient and that is WHY they are winning at this war. 

Protectionism is why they are winning this war.  

Yet you seem to oppose us doing the same thing?  Do I understand that correctly? 

You can't make anyone do anything unless there is an incentive for them. They will wait out these tariffs. Just look at how little they import from us.

Yes.  You do realize their low import level is an advantage for us, yes?

We have been subsidizing them and we are going to be doing it for billions more.

True, so it doesn't seem to matter what China does on that front.

I don't think they are a bad idea, but like any idea, it's how they are executed.

Very fair point.

 

 
 
 
Freedom Warrior
1.1.63  Freedom Warrior  replied to  livefreeordie @1.1.36    one week ago

Agreed!   The US relationship with China could be likened to an co-dependency for the past few decades.   Trump by choosing a bold path forward is upsetting all the emotes and apologists for the abusive one sided self serving behavior of China.

THe notion that this is about trips to wal mart being more expensive is grasping at trivial straws when compared to what's really at stake.  Think about all the posts here how many people have actually taken the time to drill down to find what the amount of actual corporate earnings are exposed to trade with China. Key stats like percentage of GDP.  Plus even that is rather concentrated.   Apple,  Catepillar, Boeing  By the way, plenty of others in the queue for Boeing jets.

Then consider the ones with far less exposure such as the FANGs.  In those cases China in typical fashion has already made it known they will put up as many roadblocks as necessary to prevent fair competition.  China has NOT opened up their markets to the US or otherwise we probably would be in a more precarous position.  What we know for sure in this tit for tat exchange of tariffs is that eventually China runs out of dry powder.

Meanwhile China continues to engage in cyber espionage in areas that represent a real national security threat. It's obvious you understand this but it's not clear why others do not.  Could be that blind hatred for Trump defaults to them believing everything he does is wrong.  That never has been nor never will it be ever be the case.

The US must make a stand and the time is now.

 
 
 
Freedom Warrior
1.1.64  Freedom Warrior  replied to  Jack_TX @1.1.62    one week ago

Another factor in all this that shouldn't be ignored is political courage exhibited by Trump in his approach.  After all the slobbering goofball outcries of Russian meddling in US elections we now see a clear cut case of China taking direct aim at attempting to undermine Trump support in areas that obviously tilted the election in his favor.

Naturally, lefties are looking to seize on this to bolster themselves but I guarantee you none of them will admit let alone condemn such meddling by this foreign power. Make no mistake, China would love to have a corrupt Biden or a socialist Sanders in the WH to carry on with their nefarous schemes. They doing this all openly and brazenly even.

 
 
 
Freedom Warrior
1.1.65  Freedom Warrior  replied to  Freedom Warrior @1.1.61    one week ago

Beyond that, we need to get away from the daily ups and downs in the stock market.  There is far more at stake and it's going to play out over an extended period of time.  Note, that this psycho drama you reference is a direct shot at influencing the 2020 presidential election whereas Xi has no such concern given his decision to pronounce hismself dictator for life.

I think everybody better start recognizing why such behavior by China is intolerable and why references to shopping trips to the local dispensaries of crapola are rather trivial.

China has dedicated units whose mission is to do nothing other than steal intellecual property and advance military capability. They are directly linked to their defense ministry and those are strategically aligned with their efforts in the South China sea and elsewhere. Ignore these designs at great peril.

 
 
 
evilgenius
1.1.66  evilgenius  replied to  Krishna @1.1.34    one week ago
(Of course the supplies of those pre-tariff-increase items will eventually run out).

I've heard about 6 to 8 weeks.

 
 
 
Jack_TX
1.1.67  Jack_TX  replied to  Freedom Warrior @1.1.64    one week ago
Naturally, lefties are looking to seize on this to bolster themselves but I guarantee you none of them will admit let alone condemn such meddling by this foreign power.

Extremists don't tend to observe, let alone understand, complex or subtle actions.  Buying ads on Facebook is "meddling".  Undermining the economy is "not a real thing" because they don't understand how the economy works in the first place.

Make no mistake, China would love to have a corrupt Biden or a socialist Sanders in the WH to carry on with their nefarous schemes. They doing this all openly and brazenly even.

Sanders much more so than Biden.  Biden will undoubtedly let them continue their cheating without objection, so they'll be able to continue their 10 year plan to become the world's largest economy and eventually the greatest superpower.

Sanders will crater the US economy instantly, making them the world's greatest superpower within 24 months.

 
 
 
TᵢG
1.1.68  TᵢG  replied to  Jack_TX @1.1.67    one week ago
Sanders will crater the US economy instantly, making them the world's greatest superpower within 24 months.

Sanders has good intentions but seems to have no grasp of reality.    

 
 
 
Jack_TX
1.1.69  Jack_TX  replied to  TᵢG @1.1.68    one week ago
Sanders has good intentions but seems to have no grasp of reality. 

I agree on the "reality" piece.  I'm still not sure one way or the other on good intentions.  There is a possibility he simply sees these ideas as a way to stand apart from political competition.  Or it could be as you suggest.  

In his defense, he is certainly not alone on the "no grasp of reality".  It seems to be increasingly prevalent, however that may just be because we know more about politicians than we used to.

 
 
 
Dean Moriarty
1.1.70  Dean Moriarty  replied to  TᵢG @1.1.68    one week ago

I find his intentions to be the worst of the lot. He intends to steal the earnings of the successful and give it to bums in return for their votes so he can become the most powerful man in the world.  

 
 
 
TᵢG
1.1.71  TᵢG  replied to  Jack_TX @1.1.69    one week ago

He does seem to want to be different.   But his views have been consistent so I will give him the benefit of the doubt on good intentions.   He is, however, a multimillionaire yet has been a career politician for decades.   His books helped and running for PotUS helps with books so that casts a shadow on his good intentions.

 
 
 
TᵢG
1.1.72  TᵢG  replied to  TᵢG @1.1.71    one week ago

I think Sanders sees that as a means to an end.   His good intentions (if genuine) are for everyone to have a shot at a good life.

He intends to steal the earnings of the successful and give it to bums in return for their votes so he can become the most powerful man in the world.  

I disagree that he is doing this strictly for personal power.   But I think you are partly correct in that Sanders is clearly a statist who believes in redistribution of wealth.   

 
 
 
TᵢG
1.1.73  TᵢG  replied to  Dean Moriarty @1.1.70    one week ago

Seems I clicked the wrong REPLY button by mistake.   My reply @1.1.72 is intended to reply to your @1.1.70.

 
 
 
Greg Jones
1.2  Greg Jones  replied to  FLYNAVY1 @1    2 weeks ago
Republicans are still pushing the wedge issues of God, gun, gay bashing and abortion to distract their base while they write laws to siphon more money to the wealthy. 
Old and tired left wing lies and Spam. What laws are you referring to?

 
 
 
JohnRussell
1.2.1  JohnRussell  replied to  Greg Jones @1.2    2 weeks ago
What laws are you referring to?

Nos. 6, 27b, 8a-def-14h, 37, arkh-18x/gh6, and omnibus number 11. 

 
 
 
XDm9mm
1.3  XDm9mm  replied to  FLYNAVY1 @1    2 weeks ago
The cost at shopping at Walmart is going to jump 25%

Pretty definitive statement you've made there.  Do you have any PROOF that will happen, or are you simply parroting what others note MIGHT happen.

 
 
 
Ender
1.3.1  Ender  replied to  XDm9mm @1.3    2 weeks ago

What else do you think would happen. I seriously doubt that corporations are going to bite the bullet and take a hit. The cost will be on us as consumers. 

 
 
 
XDm9mm
1.3.2  XDm9mm  replied to  Ender @1.3.1    2 weeks ago
What else do you think would happen. I seriously doubt that corporations are going to bite the bullet and take a hit. The cost will be on us as consumers.

It's predicated entirely on the situation, product and company involved.

And there are some corporations that will absorb some of any increase.  Pissing off the customer and losing market share is less palatable to them than taking a short term financial hit.  Profits will come back later.  Luring back customers that were pissed off is more difficult if not impossible to do.

 
 
 
Freedom Warrior
1.3.3  Freedom Warrior  replied to  Ender @1.3.1    2 weeks ago

 Yeah same logic is used except in the opposite manner when it comes to corporate taxes isn’t that true. 

 
 
 
Freedom Warrior
1.3.4  Freedom Warrior  replied to  XDm9mm @1.3    2 weeks ago

Dems here in California didn’t give a crap about the most basic needs being taxed and increased and screwing the working class so why would they care about Walmart at this point

 
 
 
Ender
1.3.5  Ender  replied to  Freedom Warrior @1.3.3    2 weeks ago

I have no idea what you actually mean to say.

 
 
 
Freedom Warrior
1.3.6  Freedom Warrior  replied to  Ender @1.3.5    2 weeks ago

Don’t expect any sympathy from me.

 
 
 
Ender
1.3.7  Ender  replied to  Freedom Warrior @1.3.6    2 weeks ago

?!?!...

 
 
 
Perrie Halpern R.A.
1.3.8  seeder  Perrie Halpern R.A.  replied to  XDm9mm @1.3    2 weeks ago
Pretty definitive statement you've made there.  Do you have any PROOF that will happen, or are you simply parroting what others note MIGHT happen.

That depends on the amount of tariffs he is going to propose. Right now he says about $300B. To items in Walmart, yes it can mean that much of an increase in price. 

But equally bad is the effect on US farmers, who have been getting bailed out by our governemnt and will now even need more. 

The stock market is a good indicator of the effect of this, which just had a miserable day, down 617 points.

 
 
 
Tessylo
1.3.9  Tessylo  replied to  Ender @1.3.5    one week ago
[delete]  
 
 
 
Krishna
1.3.10  Krishna  replied to  Perrie Halpern R.A. @1.3.8    one week ago

That depends on the amount of tariffs he is going to propose. Right now he says about $300B. To items in Walmart, yes it can mean that much of an increase in price. 

But equally bad is the effect on US farmers, who have been getting bailed out by our governemnt and will now even need more. 

I think initially the effects will vary. Some companies will pass on their added expenses (from the tariffs) to the consumer. Prices will increase.

But others  might not-- initially they might not increase the cost to consumer, but rather absorb the extra costs (from their paying tariffs) themselves. What they will do to make up their loss of profit from  this is to try to cut expenses (among other things this might mean a few layoffs).

Some of this is already happening.

 
 
 
Krishna
1.3.11  Krishna  replied to  Perrie Halpern R.A. @1.3.8    one week ago

The stock market is a good indicator of the effect of this, which just had a miserable day, down 617 points.

The markets closed up today (but didn't recover yesterday's big losses).

Why? Because Trump tweeted that he might not institute those bigger, higher tariffs.

The market is volatile, but even experienced traders aren't quite sure how to play it. Because everytime Trump tweets something saying that he will go through with tariff increases (or even something that traders feel implies that he will)-- the market plummets. When he tweets something that states (or seems to imply) that he may not impose tariffs-- the market rises.

Or-- when he tweets that talks are goig well, the market has moved up.

But now "the talk on the street" is that traders are starting to question what he tweets. On a major stock market program someone asked the question:

How long are we going to believe Trump every time he says that "talks are going well"?

And add to that the fact that Trump so frequently engages in blatant lies....about just about anything and everything

 
 
 
Freedom Warrior
1.3.12  Freedom Warrior  replied to  Ender @1.3.5    one week ago

Your argument is essentially an argument in favor of NO Corporate Taxes.  Something I doubt you favor.  Nor do I for that matter.

 
 
 
Krishna
1.3.13  Krishna  replied to  Perrie Halpern R.A. @1.3.8    one week ago

The stock market is a good indicator of the effect of this, which just had a miserable day, down 617 points.

Update, 5/16:

Stocks close higher for third straight day

Of course she's* still just putting on her makeup.

_______________________________________________________

*"She" of course being "The Fat Lady".....

 
 
 
TᵢG
1.3.14  TᵢG  replied to  Krishna @1.3.13    one week ago

To me, the daily fluctuations in the stock market are not something one should take too seriously.    I factor in emotional reactions (market fluctuations) with a very low weight.   Trying to read something specific (other than levels of uncertainty) from daily changes is typically unwise.    

 
 
 
Krishna
1.3.15  Krishna  replied to  TᵢG @1.3.14    one week ago

To me, the daily fluctuations in the stock market are not something one should take too seriously.    I factor in emotional reactions (market fluctuations) with a very low weight.   Trying to read something specific (other than levels of uncertainty) from daily changes is typically unwise. 

Exactly!

One of the big mistakes beginning investors make is to put too much weight on daily fluctuations!  For active traders, watching daily fluctuations can lead to seeing patterns developing (if there are any in that period)-- but for most investors watching a one day"plunge" can lead to unnecesary upset-- and similarly, a one day spike doesn't necessarily mean much in and of itself.

 
 
 
zuksam
1.4  zuksam  replied to  FLYNAVY1 @1    2 weeks ago

Tariffs are levied on the wholesale cost that Walmart and others pay so if Walmart buys 100,000 of a certain Item for 200.00 each the tariff is 50.00 but since You and I pay 500.00 retail for the Item the price will increase to 550.00 which is a 10% increase.

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
1.5  Vic Eldred  replied to  FLYNAVY1 @1    one week ago
We'll see how that plays out in the voting booth.

In other words, we shouldn't have bothered to fight in WWII because it was temporarily painful!

 
 
 
evilgenius
1.6  evilgenius  replied to  FLYNAVY1 @1    one week ago
and bean farmers throughout the Midwest are going to get hurt especially hard.

The Administration is trying to find ways to increase/extend subsidies to these farmers. So not only does this hurt me as a consumer it hurts me as a tax payer.

 
 
 
Buzz of the Orient
2  Buzz of the Orient    2 weeks ago

Americans will still demand Chinese products, especially electronics, and I doubt that China will suffer as much from Trump's tariff war as US consumers will.  As for China's purchase requirements, such as soybeans, China will locate and then maybe stay with suppliers from other nations and so the American farmers (who will be receiving a $100B subsidy) may well have to be subsidized for a long time.  I don't think the tariffs are affecting the Chinese consumers as much as it is affecting the American ones. It certainly hasn't affected me much.  Isn't what Trump is doing called shooting oneself in the foot?

 
 
 
XDm9mm
2.1  XDm9mm  replied to  Buzz of the Orient @2    2 weeks ago
Americans will still demand Chinese products, especially electronics,

You must have a short memory Buzz....

Electronics was an American industry, well at least until we opted instead for 'that cheap Japanese junk' which started back in the 60's.  Then the Japanese started looking over their shoulder at the Chinese when they started stealing the technology and started making copies of what the Japanese made.   Interestingly the Chinese did the exact same thing with their stolen copies of Japanese products as the Japanese did when they stole our products and copied them...  they copied the mistakes too.  Oop's.

But, let's face it, if America really wanted to, we could repatriate any and all industries and once again become the provider of choice for anything today.  It simply needs the desire to do so.

It certainly hasn't affected me much.

Buzz, I'll submit that you are much better off than the vast majority of Chinese citizens.  YOU might not be affected too much, but the majority very likely will.  You know as well as everyone else does that the Chinese economy is stagnating and near if not already in recession and it will only get worse regardless of tariffs.

 
 
 
Buzz of the Orient
2.1.1  Buzz of the Orient  replied to  XDm9mm @2.1    2 weeks ago

1. ELECTRONIC EQUIPMENT

US imports electronic equipment worth $ 102 billion from China. The Electronic equipment generally consists of computer mother boards, power generators, inverters, connectors, integrated circuits, capacitors, convertors and some other electronic equipment.

2. READY ELECTRONICS, TOYS AND GAMES

These products’ trade with China by US consists of $24 billion. Chinese electronics are very popular all over the world because of their affordable prices. But Chinese companies like Lenovo also manufacture quality products. US usually imports computers, phones, toys, games, televisions and other Chinese electronics.

https://comingmore.com/us-imports-top-10-made-in-china/

 
 
 
XDm9mm
2.1.2  XDm9mm  replied to  Buzz of the Orient @2.1.1    2 weeks ago

Buzz,

I'm not disputing what you're saying, but you also need to remember that old adage...   what goes around, comes around.

Before China became the 'electronics' powerhouse, Japan 'owned' that industry, and before them America did.

And to be quite candid, the more people learn about what goes on (or should I say into) Chinese made electronics, the less people trust them.  Hell, China has been caught on more than one occasion with putting embedded code in the FIRMWARE of computers, and those machines essentially 'phoning home' anything and everything that computer did, from keystrokes to everything accessed.

Anything that China makes, other countries can make.  And while very likely not as cheap, very likely more secure for personal, business and government purposes. 

 
 
 
Buzz of the Orient
2.1.3  Buzz of the Orient  replied to  XDm9mm @2.1.2    2 weeks ago
"Hell, China has been caught on more than one occasion with putting embedded code in the FIRMWARE of computers, and those machines essentially 'phoning home' anything and everything that computer did, from keystrokes to everything accessed."

That's just an accusation (source?), and if it were true, why the hell would America continue to import Chinese computers?  Are Lenovo (was IBM) computers still being imported? Motherboards?

 
 
 
XDm9mm
2.1.4  XDm9mm  replied to  Buzz of the Orient @2.1.3    2 weeks ago
That's just an accusation (source?),

Nope, not an accusation.  And it's personal knowledge.  I was involved with gathering any and all computers of a formerly American company that was bought by a Chinese firm and literally destroying them.  And it was across essentially all agencies and departments.

Suffice it to say that now, EVERYTHING is reverse engineered since virtually all computers are made in COMMUNIST CHINA, a country not known for being, shall we say honest.

 
 
 
zuksam
2.1.5  zuksam  replied to  XDm9mm @2.1    2 weeks ago

China started to lose low skill low profit manufacturing more than a decade ago and those jobs went to places like Vietnam. They'll go through the same cycles the USA and Japan went through as Manufacturers seek out the cheapest labor costs and standards as well as lax environmental laws.

 
 
 
XDm9mm
2.1.6  XDm9mm  replied to  zuksam @2.1.5    2 weeks ago
China started to lose low skill low profit manufacturing more than a decade ago and those jobs went to places like Vietnam.

Very true.  In point of fact a great deal of textile 'manufacturing' is now done in Vietnam, Malaysia, Indonesia, India, Pakistan, and other piece part virtual slave labor countries.

And China is looking over their shoulder at South Korea and other countries as they start to compete for electronic manufacturing.

As I said earlier, what goes around comes around.

 
 
 
Buzz of the Orient
2.1.7  Buzz of the Orient  replied to  XDm9mm @2.1    one week ago
"Buzz, I'll submit that you are much better off than the vast majority of Chinese citizens.  YOU might not be affected too much, but the majority very likely will."

I don't have to rely on media bias and outright fake news to know what I see with my own eyes, as a person who has lived in China for almost 13 years up to now.  I have lived in 3 different cities, in suburbs and in downtown areas, and you would be surprised to know that the people are not so poorly off as the media would like you to think.  Not only that, they're a lot happier than most people believe - even farmers, even people with menial jobs.

 
 
 
Krishna
2.2  Krishna  replied to  Buzz of the Orient @2    one week ago
Americans will still demand Chinese products, especially electronics, and I doubt that China will suffer as much from Trump's tariff war as US consumers will.

What if manufacturers move their production to other countries with cheap labour-- countries some of which might in fact be able to produce those items cheaper than the Chinese can? (Vietnam,India, Bengladesh...maybe even Mexico?)

In this conflict, the U.S. has the advantage that we import much more from China than they import from us. So if tariffs cut down trade volume-- China gets hurt more than we do as they can lose more business selling to U.S. (because they sell more to us than we sell to them to start with-- I think its maybe 6X as much?).

in addition initially our economy is much stronger than theirs.

OTOH China does have an advantage as well--  they're not a democracy. Their leaders don't have to face re-election! (if their people are suffering-- they still can't vote their leaders out of office).

 
 
 
Bob Nelson
2.2.1  Bob Nelson  replied to  Krishna @2.2    one week ago
What if manufacturers move their production to other countries with cheap labour...

That wouldn't be easy. China has spent a couple decades creating "manufacturing centers" where a constructor can find all sorts of specialized subcontractors. Supply chains are short and easy to set up.

It wouldn't be hard to build assembly plants in Vietnam, but providing all the necessary components might be a nightmare.

So I think companies will hesitate... a long time.

And in the meantime, China is promoting internal consumption.

 
 
 
Buzz of the Orient
2.2.2  Buzz of the Orient  replied to  Bob Nelson @2.2.1    one week ago

As I see it, the populace here are becoming more affluent, and internal consumption is increasing.

 
 
 
Krishna
2.2.3  Krishna  replied to  Bob Nelson @2.2.1    one week ago
What if manufacturers move their production to other countries with cheap labour...
That wouldn't be easy. China has spent a couple decades creating "manufacturing centers" where a constructor can find all sorts of specialized subcontractors. Supply chains are short and easy to set up.
It wouldn't be hard to build assembly plants in Vietnam, but providing all the necessary components might be a nightmare.
So I think companies will hesitate... a long time.
And in the meantime, China is promoting internal consumption.

Apparently its not the same for all companies. For some U.S. manufacturers currently operating in China id would be long and difficult to switch-- even perhaps impossible. (Apparently Apple is an example of this).For others,however,it might be relatively quick and easy.

Actually some have been doing this for a while now-- but nut no because of trump or tariffs but because as China;'s middle class has been growing, so have wages. To that point where, while Chinese wages are considerably,owerthan they's be in the U.S., they have risen to the point where they are significantly higher than they are in some other countries I believe they're lower in Viet-Nam. (Possibly also India and even Mexico?).

 
 
 
Krishna
2.2.4  Krishna  replied to  Buzz of the Orient @2.2.2    one week ago
As I see it, the populace here are becoming more affluent, and internal consumption is increasing.

Which also means Chinese wages have been rising-- meaning that the cost advantage for manufacturers due to lower wages in China (compared to the U.S.) is decreasing-- compared to much lower wages in other Asian (and latin AMerican?) countries.

 
 
 
Kavika
2.2.5  Kavika   replied to  Krishna @2.2.3    one week ago

The ''mighty five'' are consider to be Malaysia, India, Thailand, Indonesia and Vietnam.  China is rapidly moving into medium to high-tech manufacturing as its labor costs have risen. 

One or all of the ''mighty five'' are poised to take China's place as the low cost manufacturer of choice.

 
 
 
Buzz of the Orient
2.2.6  Buzz of the Orient  replied to  Krishna @2.2.3    one week ago

Even if wages are not at US level, the cost of living is much less in China.  For example, I live in a modern guarded building in a middle to upper-middle class neighbourhood, surrounded by 3 major university campuses, near all conveniences, subway, huge department store, great restaurants and other service shops, an area of superior infrastructure, constantly cleaned, part of a city with a population almost that of all of Canada.  My apartment is a well-furnished 3-bedroom with a spacious living-dining area and 2 balconies, kitchen and bathroom, which costs me including all utilities, cable TV (about 200 channels) and internet for the equivalent of US$550 per month.  In Toronto, in an area and building that does not compare with that, for the same cost I would have to live in a basement room with a shared kitchen and bathroom down the hall.

 
 
 
Krishna
2.2.7  Krishna  replied to  Buzz of the Orient @2.2.6    one week ago

Even if wages are not at US level, the cost of living is much less in China.  For example, I live in a modern guarded building in a middle to upper-middle class neighbourhood, surrounded by 3 major university campuses, near all conveniences, subway, huge department store, great restaurants and other service shops, an area of superior infrastructure, constantly cleaned, part of a city with a population almost that of all of Canada.  My apartment is a well-furnished 3-bedroom with a spacious living-dining area and 2 balconies, kitchen and bathroom, which costs me including all utilities, cable TV (about 200 channels) and internet for the equivalent of US$550 per month.

OMG-- why am I still living in the U.S!!! I should move to China where I could live like a king!

 
 
 
Buzz of the Orient
2.2.8  Buzz of the Orient  replied to  Krishna @2.2.7    one week ago

Marry a beautiful Chinese woman like I did, who is a fantastic cook, keeps the home immaculately clean, having been raised on a farm knows her vegetables and can choose the best there is, is amazingly calm and never gets angry, treats me as if I were the Emperor - do that and you'll never want to leave China.

 
 
 
TᵢG
2.2.9  TᵢG  replied to  Buzz of the Orient @2.2.8    one week ago

I am genuinely happy for you Buzz.   Finding happiness is really the key to life.

 
 
 
Buzz of the Orient
2.2.10  Buzz of the Orient  replied to  TᵢG @2.2.9    one week ago

At the age of 69 I had a choice - stay in Toronto, as an old man, eventually enter an old folks home...

But 13 years ago, like Bilbo Baggins had many adventures in my life, but there was still time for the biggest one of all - move to China and live a life I had never before even dreamed about the possibility of experiencing.  Having the fun and satisfaction of teaching young people and watching their lights turn on (and there is such a joy in that),  learning, seeing and photographing a culture so different from what I ever knew, and finding and marrying a woman who most men could only dream possible.

Yes I not only found that key, but used it to open a door to a new and happy life...

 
 
 
Bob Nelson
2.2.11  Bob Nelson  replied to  Buzz of the Orient @2.2.2    one week ago
As I see it, the populace here are becoming more affluent, and internal consumption is increasing.

Exactly.

China’s per capita GDP is higher than America's, but China's population is four times America's. And as you point out elsewhere, purchasing power is higher in China.

 
 
 
Bob Nelson
2.2.12  Bob Nelson  replied to  Krishna @2.2.3    one week ago
Apparently its not the same for all companies.

True. Simpler processes are easier to move - already have moved in many cases. Textiles is an example.

 
 
 
Jack_TX
2.2.13  Jack_TX  replied to  Bob Nelson @2.2.11    one week ago
China’s per capita GDP is higher than America's,

I don't think so.  Also, you said earlier that it wasn't. 

Even PPP is higher per capita in the US.

 
 
 
Bob Nelson
2.2.14  Bob Nelson  replied to  Jack_TX @2.2.13    one week ago
China’s per capita GDP is higher than America's,

O-o-o-p-s! Backwards!

China's GDP PPP is higher.

 
 
 
Jack_TX
2.2.15  Jack_TX  replied to  Bob Nelson @2.2.14    one week ago

Ah.  OK.  Just making sure.

 
 
 
lib50
2.2.16  lib50  replied to  Buzz of the Orient @2.2.6    one week ago

$550/month won't even pay for one room in a house where I live.  One bedroom apartments are going for around $2000/mo.  Prices up so much more than wages. 

 
 
 
evilgenius
2.2.17  evilgenius  replied to  lib50 @2.2.16    one week ago
$550/month won't even pay for one room in a house where I live. 

It's pretty close to my house payment here in WI. Not including taxes, insurance and utilities. We have 2 bedrooms and one bath. We hope to refinance this summer and move the kitchen into a bigger space and add a half bath on the first floor to increase the value.

 
 
 
Greg Jones
3  Greg Jones    2 weeks ago

So what should be done about the huge trade deficit with China?

What about their ongoing theft of trade secrets and intellectual property

Is the Chinese economy doing all that well?

Was it OK for China to renege on a deal that was nearly worked out?

Trump's action will get them back into discussions.

 
 
 
Buzz of the Orient
3.1  Buzz of the Orient  replied to  Greg Jones @3    2 weeks ago
"Was it OK for China to renege on a deal that was nearly worked out?"

The news I read (American, not Chinese) was that the Chinese came to negotiate and that's when Trump slapped their face with the tariff increase to 25%.  Their meeting lasted 90 minutes - I'm surprised it lasted that long.

 
 
 
TTGA
3.1.1  TTGA  replied to  Buzz of the Orient @3.1    2 weeks ago
Their meeting lasted 90 minutes

I don't think that they're used to dealing with people who talk tough, and back it up with actions.

Actually, I think that most of the tariff charges aren't really there just to influence Chinese behavior.  Most of it is sending a message to American companies who chose to outsource to cut labor costs and break unions.  That message is, "Start moving your manufacturing back into the US or we will take action to put you out of business".  This is a message that should have been sent 20 years ago, but, better late than never.

 
 
 
Freedom Warrior
3.1.2  Freedom Warrior  replied to  Buzz of the Orient @3.1    2 weeks ago

 Yeah pretty much can assure you that the Chinese are lying their asses off.  I peg them to have a much greater sophisticated capability for fake news.

 
 
 
SteevieGee
3.2  SteevieGee  replied to  Greg Jones @3    2 weeks ago

So...  You have a super huge Chinese subsidized corporation stealing intellectual property from a super huge multinational (not American for tax purposes) subsidized corporation.  Since neither corporation gives a rat's ass about their workers, their customers, or their respective countries why should I care?

 
 
 
Freedom Warrior
3.2.1  Freedom Warrior  replied to  SteevieGee @3.2    2 weeks ago

[deleted]

 
 
 
SteevieGee
3.2.2  SteevieGee  replied to  Freedom Warrior @3.2.1    one week ago

I was hoping that Greg could explain it.  Or maybe you.  I'm not talking to Google right now because it always calls me and tries to sell me shit.

 
 
 
It Is ME
4  It Is ME    2 weeks ago

It sounds terrible when you Totalize jrSmiley_9_smiley_image.gif everything, but I wonder what the price hike on every SINGLE individual piece and part is.

$ 0.01. $ 0.05, $ 0.25, $ 1.00, $ 5.00 ?

There's a hell of a lot of individual pieces and parts that come to this country to be sold .

Remember the argument on raising the minimum wage by Liberals ?

"It would only cost a nickel or so more on your hamburger in order for someone to make a "Living Wage" (whatever the frig that is). jrSmiley_97_smiley_image.gifjrSmiley_78_smiley_image.gif

Raising prices for EVERYONE didn't bother them for that, but now it does ? jrSmiley_98_smiley_image.gif

 
 
 
It Is ME
4.1  It Is ME  replied to  It Is ME @4    2 weeks ago

On another note....Folks could actually buy "American Made" for a "Change", but even with these tariffs, it probably will still be cheaper to buy "Chinese Made" !

 
 
 
XDm9mm
4.1.1  XDm9mm  replied to  It Is ME @4.1    2 weeks ago
it probably will still be cheaper to buy "Chinese Made" !

Not really.  I buy everything I can American made.  In fact, most places I buy from, jeans for example, source their materials from American sources.  And interestingly, the price is not all that different than the prices in big box retailers for 'name' brands and only very slightly more than 'store brand'.

 
 
 
Buzz of the Orient
4.1.2  Buzz of the Orient  replied to  XDm9mm @4.1.1    2 weeks ago

I will say this. I'm still wearing a pair of Rockport Walkers for 20 years that are the most comfortable shoes I ever owned and I wear them often and although they look worn out I don't care.  They were made when the Massachusetts company manufactured them in the USA.  I also bought a pair of the same size Rockport Walkers that were made after the company moved its manufacturing to Mexico, and they hurt my feet.  I think that one benefit of buying American made goods is they last a lot longer.

 
 
 
MUVA
4.1.3  MUVA  replied to  Buzz of the Orient @4.1.2    2 weeks ago

Did you have them resoled  at one time I thought you could send them back for a rework.

 
 
 
Buzz of the Orient
4.1.4  Buzz of the Orient  replied to  MUVA @4.1.3    2 weeks ago

Only the rear quarter of the heels.  By the time they needed reworking it would have been in Mexico.

 
 
 
MUVA
4.1.5  MUVA  replied to  Buzz of the Orient @4.1.4    2 weeks ago

My father in law still has rockports from the 80's I have a pair of bass shoes that are about 35 years old two resoles and one complete refurbish.    

 
 
 
It Is ME
4.1.6  It Is ME  replied to  XDm9mm @4.1.1    one week ago

I deal with Hotels and Motels …. a lot....and they won't buy anything made in the U.S. when they renovate, due to costs (they all do studies before making decisions). Even with shipping charges,  port charges, taxes, and any other charges that are thrown in for good measure, it's still cheaper to go outside the country for materials.

 
 
 
Freedom Warrior
4.1.7  Freedom Warrior  replied to  It Is ME @4.1.6    one week ago

Just purchased around $1,2 million of FF&E for our hotel.  Sure much of it came from China but we also source many goods in that package from North Carolina and other places in the wider region.

 
 
 
It Is ME
4.1.8  It Is ME  replied to  Freedom Warrior @4.1.7    one week ago
Sure much of it came from China but we also source many goods in that package from North Carolina and other places in the wider region.

There's your sign....much came from China.....only many from others. jrSmiley_100_smiley_image.jpg

The companies I design for get a trinket or two from the U.S. made companies..... but not MUCH.

Made in China saves MUCH

Now don't get me wrong, there are some things that are "Inexpensive' to buy in this Country, but they aren't "Cheap". jrSmiley_9_smiley_image.gif

Hotels/Motels aren't looking for products that may last forever, or they wouldn't have much pull with Banks in getting MORE money for themselves.

 
 
 
Krishna
4.1.9  Krishna  replied to  Buzz of the Orient @4.1.2    one week ago
I think that one benefit of buying American made goods is they last a lot longer.

Probably true in many cases.

But I believe Apple manufactures their iPhones in China? And isn't the quality of Apple products generally considered top notch?

 
 
 
Buzz of the Orient
4.1.10  Buzz of the Orient  replied to  Krishna @4.1.9    one week ago

Most likely true, taking into consideration their advertising and critical reviews.

 
 
 
zuksam
4.2  zuksam  replied to  It Is ME @4    2 weeks ago

I have no problem with Tariffs if they're used properly. When you have countries like China that can manufacture goods so cheaply that US manufacturers can't possibly compete tariffs are the only way of leveling the playing field. Many countries use VAT taxes to make imported goods more expensive to near the same cost as domestic products and ideally the money raised through VAT taxes is used to lower the tax burden on citizens so there no real net loss to individual consumers it's just paying the same amount of taxes in a different way which has the added benefit of keeping domestic goods competitive against goods from low wage countries.

 
 
 
Bob Nelson
4.2.1  Bob Nelson  replied to  zuksam @4.2    2 weeks ago

Tariffs can indeed allow local producers to be competitive... but at a higher price for the consumer. Tariffs raise the price of imports. The consumer pays the difference, for higher-priced imports or for local product at that same higher price. I wonder if Americans are willing to go there.

VAT is neutral in international trade, applied to both imports and local production.

 
 
 
It Is ME
4.2.2  It Is ME  replied to  Bob Nelson @4.2.1    one week ago
Tariffs can indeed allow local producers to be competitive... but at a higher price for the consumer.

Anything made here has ALWAYS been more expensive than imports. I call the tariffs an equalizer. Made over there and made here costs are getting closer to equalizing. Chinese materials should cost as much to buy as it does for American made ! jrSmiley_13_smiley_image.gif

 
 
 
Bob Nelson
4.2.3  Bob Nelson  replied to  It Is ME @4.2.2    one week ago

That’s fine, as long as everyone understands that the consumer's price is the previous Chinese price plus the tariff.

China doesn't pay the tariff. The American consumer does.

 
 
 
It Is ME
4.2.4  It Is ME  replied to  Bob Nelson @4.2.3    one week ago
The American consumer does.

When have they NEVER ? 

Made in China is still cheaper than Made in the U.S. !

#thecostoflivingsucks!

That has ALWAYS always been my cause !

Every Fucking "Feel Good Political Policy" costs us, no matter how "Good" one "Feels" at the time about a policy.

 
 
 
Bob Nelson
4.2.5  Bob Nelson  replied to  It Is ME @4.2.4    one week ago

You're fighting the wrong battle. Lowering consumer costs byany and all means is a good thing.

And then... paying a decent wage so living standards can go up, instead of stagnating. That's the battle that needs to be fought.

 
 
 
It Is ME
4.2.6  It Is ME  replied to  Bob Nelson @4.2.5    one week ago
paying a decent wage so living standards can go up

What is this "Decent"...."LIVING"...wage everyone speaks of anyway. Is there an "Honest" number that actually makes sense ?

If we fought about  the  "Actual" cost of living increases, Constantly asking for a raise wouldn't be an issue now ….. would it !

That fucking raise ya just got didn't do squat, as the "Cost of Actually living" just went up AGAIN !

 
 
 
Bob Nelson
4.2.7  Bob Nelson  replied to  It Is ME @4.2.6    one week ago

Do you have any idea what you're talking about?

 
 
 
It Is ME
4.2.8  It Is ME  replied to  Bob Nelson @4.2.7    one week ago
Do you have any idea what you're talking about

Of course !

Do you deny the "Cost of Living" keeps going up ?

 
 
 
Bob Nelson
4.2.9  Bob Nelson  replied to  It Is ME @4.2.8    one week ago

... which is an excellent demonstration that you do not...

 
 
 
It Is ME
4.2.10  It Is ME  replied to  Bob Nelson @4.2.9    one week ago
... which is an excellent demonstration that you do not...

oooo, OUCH.....ya got me ?

Do you still deny the "Cost of Living" keeps going up ?

 
 
 
Bob Nelson
4.2.11  Bob Nelson  replied to  It Is ME @4.2.10    one week ago

... and you persist...  jrSmiley_55_smiley_image.gif

 
 
 
It Is ME
4.2.12  It Is ME  replied to  Bob Nelson @4.2.11    one week ago

jrSmiley_93_smiley_image.jpgDoes the cost of living keep going up ? jrSmiley_93_smiley_image.jpg

I was feeling your pain. Did that help ?

 
 
 
Bob Nelson
4.2.13  Bob Nelson  replied to  It Is ME @4.2.12    one week ago

Do you really think the topic is significant? Really?  jrSmiley_76_smiley_image.gif

 
 
 
It Is ME
4.2.14  It Is ME  replied to  Bob Nelson @4.2.13    one week ago
Do you really think the topic is significant?

100%

 
 
 
Bob Nelson
4.2.15  Bob Nelson  replied to  It Is ME @4.2.14    one week ago

Do you know what the inflation rate is today?

Two percent.

   jrSmiley_89_smiley_image.gif

 
 
 
It Is ME
4.2.16  It Is ME  replied to  Bob Nelson @4.2.15    one week ago

Went up, didn't it. jrSmiley_13_smiley_image.gif

 
 
 
Bob Nelson
4.2.17  Bob Nelson  replied to  It Is ME @4.2.16    one week ago

   TheseOffbeatCanadagoose-max-1mb.gif

 
 
 
TᵢG
4.2.18  TᵢG  replied to  Bob Nelson @4.2.17    one week ago

Why do you bother?  jrSmiley_98_smiley_image.gif

 
 
 
Bob Nelson
4.2.19  Bob Nelson  replied to  TᵢG @4.2.18    one week ago

Hope springs eternal...

 
 
 
Trout Giggles
4.2.20  Trout Giggles  replied to  TᵢG @4.2.18    one week ago

why does anyone?

 
 
 
It Is ME
4.2.21  It Is ME  replied to  Bob Nelson @4.2.17    one week ago

jrSmiley_78_smiley_image.gif

 
 
 
It Is ME
4.2.22  It Is ME  replied to  TᵢG @4.2.18    one week ago

Do the ones that scream for a "Living Wage" …. NOT complain about the cost of living as a reason they need the raise ? 

The cost of Living is the REAL bother for EVERYONE. jrSmiley_98_smiley_image.gif

 
 
 
lady in black
5  lady in black    2 weeks ago

60055341_10161932282010615_6162500783758

 
 
 
Freedom Warrior
5.1  Freedom Warrior  replied to  lady in black @5    one week ago

Of course what they won't show in that pic is the damage occuring on the other side.

 
 
 
Split Personality
6  Split Personality    2 weeks ago

We had family from Australia visit for several weeks recently and the ladies always go to the very upscale South Lake TX mall to go shopping

and everyone was rather disappointied by the prices (not very good) and the source of almost every garment ( China) with India as a distant second.

I think we found 2 or 3 things made in the USA.  Even the Christian clothing store was flooded with Chinese product.

Both China and the USA are in for a rude awakening

during the period of adjustment should these tariffs continue and China retaliates.

 
 
 
zuksam
6.1  zuksam  replied to  Split Personality @6    2 weeks ago

Nothing worth doing is ever easy.

 
 
 
Freedom Warrior
6.2  Freedom Warrior  replied to  Split Personality @6    2 weeks ago

  China’s potential impact in US economy this way way overhyped.  They have far far more to lose than we do and that’s the essence of leverage. 

 
 
 
charger 383
7  charger 383    2 weeks ago

Do US Citizens want higher pay, better benefits and steady jobs or cheaper stuff?

 
 
 
FLYNAVY1
7.1  FLYNAVY1  replied to  charger 383 @7    one week ago

They want it all charger.......

In reality, corporate CEOs want their bonuses, and the only way that happens is if the shareholders get their dividend checks.  In short, money that could be used to support a better quality of life for the employees (AKA consumers) gets siphoned out of the system taken out of circulation.

It's an endless spiral of cut workers, implement cheaper automated systems, to where the workers take lower paying jobs and have to buy cheaper Chinese made goods at Walmart.  Repeat cycle.

 
 
 
Bob Nelson
7.1.1  Bob Nelson  replied to  FLYNAVY1 @7.1    one week ago
In short, money that could be used to support a better quality of life for the employees (AKA consumers) gets siphoned out of the system taken out of circulation.

Excellent post.

 
 
 
Dean Moriarty
7.1.2  Dean Moriarty  replied to  FLYNAVY1 @7.1    one week ago

Many stocks don’t pay a dividend, they are invested in because of their potential for future growth and profit. Bezos is now the wealthiest man and Amazon never paid a dividend. It is not uncommon for CEO bonuses to be linked to the performance of the business without a dividend being a factor. 

 
 
 
Freedom Warrior
7.1.3  Freedom Warrior  replied to  Dean Moriarty @7.1.2    one week ago

I am alwyas amazed you have the patience to explain such basic financial concepts to these people.

 
 
 
Tessylo
7.1.4  Tessylo  replied to  Freedom Warrior @7.1.3    one week ago
'to these people.'

????????????????

 
 
 
Split Personality
7.1.5  Split Personality  replied to  Dean Moriarty @7.1.2    one week ago

And now Amazon is quietly replacing those people who do the packing with a robotic system that just needs ( for now) to be fed cardboard and packing material.

https://www.supplychaindive.com/news/Amazon-packing-robotics/554642/

Frankly, we have received too many nearly empty boxes from Amazon - it has to save them $$ on material alone.

 
 
 
Trout Giggles
7.1.6  Trout Giggles  replied to  Split Personality @7.1.5    one week ago
nearly empty boxes from Amazon

Yeah. What's up with that? I'm tired of getting a 50 cubic foot box for an item that could fit in a 10 cubic foot box

 
 
 
Bob Nelson
7.1.7  Bob Nelson  replied to  Split Personality @7.1.5    one week ago
And now Amazon is quietly replacing those people who do the packing with a robotic system...

This could be simple: tax all robotic added value at 100%. Rebate the money to everyone.

 
 
 
Split Personality
7.1.8  Split Personality  replied to  Trout Giggles @7.1.6    one week ago

Free air pouches !!!  ( which also have a cost )

384

 
 
 
Bob Nelson
7.1.9  Bob Nelson  replied to  Split Personality @7.1.8    one week ago

They're actually air-bags for delivery drones... jrSmiley_29_smiley_image.gif

 
 
 
KDMichigan
7.1.10  KDMichigan  replied to  Split Personality @7.1.5    one week ago
Frankly, we have received too many nearly empty boxes from Amazon

You could go all out for the empty box scam. jrSmiley_10_smiley_image.gif

https://www.mlive.com/news/kalamazoo/2019/05/kalamazoo-man-pleads-in-1m-empty-box-scheme-against-apple-inc.html?src=ilaw

 
 
 
Krishna
7.1.11  Krishna  replied to  Bob Nelson @7.1.7    one week ago

This could be simple: tax all robotic added value at 100%. Rebate the money to everyone.

Not a good idea,. it would piss off the robots. And then they would unionize and charge more for their services.

And worse yet---some robots have a really mean streak.

Remember Hal?

 
 
 
Bob Nelson
7.1.12  Bob Nelson  replied to  Krishna @7.1.11    one week ago
This could be simple
Not a good idea

Why can simple ideas never be good?

 
 
 
zuksam
7.1.13  zuksam  replied to  Trout Giggles @7.1.6    one week ago

I like their big boxes, my attic looks like a Amazon warehouse.

 
 
 
zuksam
7.1.14  zuksam  replied to  Bob Nelson @7.1.7    one week ago
This could be simple: tax all robotic added value at 100%. Rebate the money to everyone.

The problem with that is they'll need to decide what constitutes a robot. I found a definition of Robot as any machine or mechanical device that operates automatically or semi-automatically. So that would cover most machinery used in manufacturing. I think most people think the difference between machine and robot is that a machine does the task it was designed to do and a robot does the task it was programed to do but is capable of doing many different tasks. It doesn't seem right to tax one and not the other though since to me a robot is just a modern machine controlled by a Computer instead of Cams, Pulleys, Gears, Timers, and Relays. In the end they both do the same thing, they replace human labor with mechanical labor.

 
 
 
Bob Nelson
7.1.15  Bob Nelson  replied to  zuksam @7.1.14    one week ago

Reprogrammable is the best definition I know.

 
 
 
Split Personality
7.1.16  Split Personality  replied to  Split Personality @7.1.8    one week ago

case in point.

We received a pair of earrings in this 10 in x 7 in x 3.5 in box last week.

That's insane.

384

 
 
 
Trout Giggles
7.1.17  Trout Giggles  replied to  Split Personality @7.1.8    4 days ago

And they're not even poppable like bubble wrap!!!!

Bring back the bubble wrap!

p.s. If there were more bubble wrap in the world, there would be a lot less problems

 
 
 
Bob Nelson
7.1.18  Bob Nelson  replied to  Trout Giggles @7.1.17    4 days ago
If there were more bubble wrap in the world, there would be a lot less problems

Ummm........

original

 
 
 
Trout Giggles
7.1.19  Trout Giggles  replied to  Bob Nelson @7.1.18    4 days ago

That's a piranha made from plastic bottles, Bob.

Popping bubble wrap is theurapetic

 
 
 
Bob Nelson
7.1.20  Bob Nelson  replied to  Trout Giggles @7.1.19    4 days ago

For piranhas?

 
 
 
Trout Giggles
7.1.21  Trout Giggles  replied to  Bob Nelson @7.1.20    4 days ago

yeah....and you, too

 
 
 
Bob Nelson
7.1.22  Bob Nelson  replied to  Trout Giggles @7.1.21    4 days ago

    jrSmiley_29_smiley_image.gif

 
 
 
Buzz of the Orient
7.1.23  Buzz of the Orient  replied to  Trout Giggles @7.1.17    4 days ago

More duct tape would help too - not just for mouths.

 
 
 
Split Personality
7.1.24  Split Personality  replied to  Trout Giggles @7.1.17    yesterday

I know, you have to get an exacto knife or a razor to cut the darned things before putting them in the recycle bucket.

No stress relief there !

lol

 
 
 
Trout Giggles
7.1.25  Trout Giggles  replied to  Split Personality @7.1.24    23 hours ago

BINGO!

 
 
 
Raven Wing
8  Raven Wing    2 weeks ago

There will be no winners on either side, just lots of losers. But, they both knew that in the beginning, but, they don't are how much it hurts their people on either side, just so they can look like He-Men to their own supporters. 

Childish and uncaring how much the poor will suffer on either side. after all, the poor are expendable commodities and really don't matter. Right?

 
 
 
Bob Nelson
8.1  Bob Nelson  replied to  Raven Wing @8    one week ago
just so they can look like He-Men to their own supporters

  jrSmiley_89_smiley_image.gif

 
 
 
Kavika
9  Kavika     one week ago

Americans are not getting hurt by the tariffs. Oh wait, since farmers are Americans it would seem that they are getting hurt. After the $12 billion that Trump authorized to help out farmers he now wants another $15 billion for them. Seems the farmers aren't that happy over the situation. 

FARM UNION PRESIDENT CALLS TRUMP'S PROPOSED $15 BILLION SUBSIDY AN INSUFFICIENT, 'TEMPORARY' SOLUTION

https://www.newsweek.com/farm-union-president-trump-subsidy-trade-china-1424340

 
 
 
Freedom Warrior
9.1  Freedom Warrior  replied to  Kavika @9    one week ago

The farmers will be receiving checks for what was already a good year with respect to China. Those goods will then go elsewhere  so the farmers can get a better payday. Looks like it will be a big win for them.

 
 
 
Kavika
9.1.1  Kavika   replied to  Freedom Warrior @9.1    one week ago

LOL, it's obvious you didn't read the article nor any of the numerous articles from the farming community etc that says the exact opposite...

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/2018-was-particularly-tough-year-farmers-leaving-their-futures-uncertain-n951111

But hey, you're the expert so keep on keeping on. 

 
 
 
Bob Nelson
9.1.2  Bob Nelson  replied to  Kavika @9.1.1    one week ago

It doesn't matter if Trump screws the farmers. They will still adore him.

 
 
 
Freedom Warrior
9.1.3  Freedom Warrior  replied to  Kavika @9.1.1    one week ago

Or more likely that I read about how farmer's use the woe is me strategy to manipulate the uninformed.

 
 
 
Kavika
9.1.4  Kavika   replied to  Freedom Warrior @9.1.3    one week ago
Or more likely that I read about how farmer's use the woe is me strategy to manipulate the uninformed.

LOL, nice try but no cigar or facts either. 

 
 
 
Freedom Warrior
9.1.5  Freedom Warrior  replied to  Kavika @9.1.4    one week ago

 Farmers are not in trouble, that’s a fact.

 
 
 
JBB
9.1.6  JBB  replied to  Bob Nelson @9.1.2    one week ago

Farmers deserted Carter due to the Soviet Grain Embargo electing Reagan.

 
 
 
Kavika
9.1.7  Kavika   replied to  Freedom Warrior @9.1.5    one week ago
Farmers are not in trouble, that’s a fact.

You certainly are fact less in this article.  

 
 
 
Bob Nelson
9.1.8  Bob Nelson  replied to  JBB @9.1.6    one week ago
Farmers deserted Carter...

True... but that was Carter. This is the guy who boasted, "I could stand in the middle of Fifth Avenue and shoot someone... and not lose a single voter."

I would add, "even if the shooting victim is a Trumpist".

 
 
 
Freedom Warrior
9.1.9  Freedom Warrior  replied to  Kavika @9.1.7    one week ago

Better to consider this farners screeching is nothiing new. They have a decent track record of winning.  Business savvy? Not so much, more about primaries and two senators per all states, especially farm states.

 
 
 
LynneA
9.2  LynneA  replied to  Kavika @9    one week ago

...tax payers are paying dearly for this tariff war.  

 
 
 
Raven Wing
9.2.1  Raven Wing  replied to  LynneA @9.2    one week ago
.tax payers are paying dearly for this tariff war. 

Not only taxpayers, but, consumers as well. 

 
 
 
Freedom Warrior
9.2.2  Freedom Warrior  replied to  LynneA @9.2    one week ago

Pay?  In the long run what they will pay is far less than if we force China to become freer in their trade practices. Continue with this abusive relationship and the costs will be far more than we can possibly imagine.

 
 
 
livefreeordie
9.3  livefreeordie  replied to  Kavika @9    one week ago

Farmer and unions is an oxymoron. I’ve never met a farmer who would ever join a union

 
 
 
Bob Nelson
9.3.1  Bob Nelson  replied to  livefreeordie @9.3    one week ago

Cesar Chavez?

 
 
 
Kavika
9.3.2  Kavika   replied to  livefreeordie @9.3    one week ago

There are 200,000 members that say you have no idea of what your talking about...LOLOL

Do you even know that the National Farmers Union is? From your comment you have no idea, but that's not unusual.

 
 
 
livefreeordie
9.3.3  livefreeordie  replied to  Bob Nelson @9.3.1    one week ago

Chavez was a farm worker, not an owner and to his credit he preferred the bracero program to increasing immigration 

 
 
 
Bob Nelson
9.3.4  Bob Nelson  replied to  livefreeordie @9.3.3    one week ago
Farmer and unions is an oxymoron. I’ve never met a farmer who would ever join a union

...

Chavez was a farm worker, not an owner

      jrSmiley_42_smiley_image.gif

 
 
 
livefreeordie
9.3.5  livefreeordie  replied to  Bob Nelson @9.3.4    one week ago

Let me help you

a farmer usually works his farm

but a farm worker while working the farm is simply paid labor not a farmer

 
 
 
Raven Wing
9.3.6  Raven Wing  replied to  livefreeordie @9.3.5    one week ago

jrSmiley_10_smiley_image.gif

 
 
 
Bob Nelson
9.3.7  Bob Nelson  replied to  livefreeordie @9.3.5    one week ago
a farm worker while working the farm is simply paid labor not a farmer

And of course labor is of no importance...

original

 
 
 
livefreeordie
9.3.8  livefreeordie  replied to  Bob Nelson @9.3.7    one week ago

Don’t you tire of Strawman arguments.

I never said a farm worker is of no importance. The context is that a worker is not the farmer who actually owns the land and has at risk the crops or animals he/she owns.

 
 
 
Bob Nelson
9.3.9  Bob Nelson  replied to  livefreeordie @9.3.8    one week ago

You should learn the meaning of "strawman argument".

 
 
 
JBB
10  JBB    one week ago

Tarrifs are just a way of increasing what people pay. They are taxes on end users...

 
 
 
MUVA
10.1  MUVA  replied to  JBB @10    one week ago

I thought you wanted higher taxes?

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
10.1.1  Vic Eldred  replied to  MUVA @10.1    one week ago
I thought you wanted higher taxes?

They also wanted tariffs, up until Trump wanted it. Schumer is still in favor of the tariffs!

 
 
 
Bob Nelson
10.1.2  Bob Nelson  replied to  Vic Eldred @10.1.1    one week ago
They also wanted...

Who is "they"? Do you have a link?

Instead of talking about some imaginary "they", why don't you give your own position, and discuss it?

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
10.1.3  Vic Eldred  replied to  Bob Nelson @10.1.2    one week ago
Who is "they"?

They being democrats. You didn't know ?


Do you have a link?

Why, of course....Just for you:

"WASHINGTON (Reuters) - Republican President Donald Trump’s market-jolting promise to slap heavy U.S. tariffs on steel and aluminum imports has earned him praise from an unusual quarter - Democratic lawmakers.

Some Democrats, mainly from Rust Belt states, but from other areas too, hailed the president’s plan for tariffs of 25 percent on steel and 10 percent on aluminum.

“This welcome action is long overdue for shuttered steel plants across Ohio and steelworkers who live in fear that their jobs will be the next victims of Chinese cheating,” said Senator Sherrod Brown, a liberal and populist Democrat from Ohio.

Senator Bob Casey, a Democrat from neighboring Pennsylvania, said in a statement that it had taken the administration too long to act, but that Trump’s announcement on Thursday was a “welcome step.”

That kind of language clashed with a generalized strong worry among most Republicans, long-time free trade champions, that Trump’s move could trigger an international trade war."

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-trade-trump-democrats-idUSKCN1GE2U1



why don't you give your own position, and discuss it?

I think the trade deficit with China is unsustainable and should have been addressed long ago, but neither Bush nor Obama had the guts to undergo an actual trade war. Bill Clinton was naive when he helped China into the WTO, thinking a Communist dictatorship would be tamed by membership.

You didn't know that was my view?  Well, there it is again.

 
 
 
Bob Nelson
10.1.4  Bob Nelson  replied to  Vic Eldred @10.1.3    one week ago

Your quote from Brown is over a year old. This is just a couple days old:

Senator Sherrod Brown says that tariffs are an effective tool against the enemy's of the United States, but when it comes to China it could be costly. "The President needs a real strategy here on what the endgame is, not just do these tariffs because they sound good or a great tweet," said Sen. Brown. "But do the tariffs that will end up having a positive impact on the long term economy and the long term relationship with China. I don't think he has done that."

You said

I think the trade deficit with China is unsustainable

Why? I can see no reason why it couldn't continue indefinitely. America cannot run out of money - America prints it.

 
 
 
JBB
10.1.5  JBB  replied to  MUVA @10.1    one week ago

I want highr taxes on the rich, not higher taxes on what working folks buy...

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
10.1.6  Vic Eldred  replied to  Bob Nelson @10.1.4    one week ago
Your quote from Brown is over a year old.

Yes it is and involved tariffs on steel. I tried to show that what tariffs mean politically. Usually favored by dems and detested by the free trade Republicans.

This is just a couple days old:

So is this:

Sen. Chuck Schumer on Sunday said he agrees with President Trump’s “squeezing” of China on trade issues

“They take advantage of American workers of American wealth, of American companies regularly, I call them rapacious,” he added, in a rare moment of agreement between the top Dem and the Republican president."

https://nypost.com/2018/04/22/schumer-backs-trumps-tough-stance-on-china/


Why? I can see no reason why it couldn't continue indefinitely. America cannot run out of money - America prints it.

Printing money robs the middle class of their savings. We don't want that. Why would you be in favor of something that is so beneficial to the Chinese economy and so destructive to the American economy?

 
 
 
Bob Nelson
10.1.7  Bob Nelson  replied to  Vic Eldred @10.1.6    one week ago
Sen. Chuck Schumer on Sunday...

... over a year ago...

Anything current?

Printing money robs the middle class of their savings.

Oh, please! Inflation is running at about 2%. Spare me the inappropriate slogans. I was giving you credit for knowing that you were talking about - was that a mistake?

so destructive to the American economy

That's just a bumper sticker slogan. Can you make a demonstrative argument instead? Explain why you believe this to be true?

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
10.1.8  Vic Eldred  replied to  Bob Nelson @10.1.7    one week ago
Anything current?

How about May 7, 2019 (about a week ago):

President Trump has said he will impose more tariffs on China this week as trade negotiations between the world’s two largest economies appear to have stagnated, garnering support from seemingly unlikely allies on the other side of aisle.

New York Democrat Sen. Chuck Schumer tweeted a message of support for Trump’s tough stance on trade with China this week, telling the president to “hang tough.”

While Trump and Schumer have a growing list of other policy differences, Schumer’s point of view on China and trade has generally lined up with the Trump administration.

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/trump-schumer-agree-something-china-151222253.html

How many more links do you want?

How many more common news stories do you need?

 
 
 
Bob Nelson
10.1.9  Bob Nelson  replied to  Vic Eldred @10.1.8    one week ago

I'm about to give up trying to talk to you, Vic. Your playing fast and loose with facts, requiring me to assume that you are not being honest, is... tiresome.You kinda sorta left out:

“Senator Schumer has long been a China trade hawk, having expressed concerns about China’s currency policies and other trade practices,” Simon Lester, the associate director of Cato's Herbert A. Stiefel Center for Trade Policy Studies, told FOX Business.
 
 
 
MUVA
10.1.10  MUVA  replied to  JBB @10.1.5    one week ago

Well I want higher taxes on everyone but me.

 
 
 
Krishna
10.1.11  Krishna  replied to  Vic Eldred @10.1.3    one week ago
Senator Bob Casey, a Democrat from neighboring Pennsylvania, said in a statement that it had taken the administration too long to act, but that Trump’s announcement on Thursday was a “welcome step.”

Traditionally its the Democrats who've favoured tariffs-- and Republcans who oppose them.

Why? because true conservatives are pro-business,and therefore in favour of "free trade". Conservatives are for less government meddling in the affairs of free marketforces, i.e. "big government".

And traditionally its the Democrats who supported tariffs. Because liberals are more "pro-labour", so many like the idea of tariff on foreign goods (to protect American laborers from foreign competition.

So why do so many Republicans support Trump and his tariffs-- when these tariffs actually go against core conservative principles? because they want to support Trump and don't want to see the Democrats in power.

(There is a commonly help misperception, amongst both many Democrats as well as republicans, that Trump is a true Conservative, but in fact on most issues he is not!)

 
 
 
Krishna
10.1.12  Krishna  replied to  Krishna @10.1.11    one week ago

And traditionally its the Democrats who supported tariffs. Because liberals are more "pro-labour", so many like the idea of tariff on foreign goods (to protect American laborers from foreign competition.

Here's what the (liberal) leader of the Senate Democrats said on the subject:

Chuck Schumer urges Trump to ‘hang tough on China’ after latest tariff threat while other top Democrats are quiet

 
 
 
zuksam
10.1.13  zuksam  replied to  JBB @10.1.5    one week ago
I want highr taxes on the rich, not higher taxes on what working folks buy.

The thing to do is take the money raised by the Tariffs and remit it to the states to be used to lower state sales taxes on all goods. That way we get the benefit of Tariffs while minimizing the impact on Consumers.

 
 
 
lib50
10.1.14  lib50  replied to  zuksam @10.1.13    one week ago

We consumers will be paying the price, no way to minimize that.  Trump still tries to push that 'China pays' lie.  If anybody thinks this will end up with rebates and  lower costs for Americans, I've got a bridge for sale.  Prices rarely go back down once they've risen. 

 
 
 
zuksam
10.1.15  zuksam  replied to  lib50 @10.1.14    one week ago

We will be paying taxes, how those taxes are paid can be changed without actually changing the amount we pay in taxes at all. If it were decided that these Tariffs would be permanent to protect Jobs and Wages in the USA then they could use the Tariffs to offset sale taxes so Chinese goods would become more expensive but everything else would get cheaper because of sales tax savings.

 
 
 
Bob Nelson
10.1.16  Bob Nelson  replied to  zuksam @10.1.15    one week ago

Permanent tariffs are blatantly hostile. It seems inevitable that China riposte.

Third-party countries will try to slip in, in both markets.

China will intensify its development of domestic consumption.

Trump is trying to bully China. China has four times America's population. This will not end well.

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
10.1.17  Vic Eldred  replied to  Krishna @10.1.11    one week ago
Traditionally its the Democrats who've favoured tariffs-- and Republcans who oppose them.

Correct

Why? because true conservatives are pro-business,and therefore in favour of "free trade". Conservatives are for less government meddling in the affairs of free marketforces, i.e. "big government".

Correct

And traditionally its the Democrats who supported tariffs. Because liberals are more "pro-labour", so many like the idea of tariff on foreign goods (to protect American laborers from foreign competition.

Correct

So why do so many Republicans support Trump and his tariffs-- when these tariffs actually go against core conservative principles? because they want to support Trump and don't want to see the Democrats in power.

Trump used to be a democrat and has been proposing this for years. You will find that both Republicans and democrats are now divided on the issue, with Schumer supporting the President. Many of the Republicans who support him on tariffs, do so because the trade imbalance with some countries, such as China, are so great!

(There is a commonly help misperception, amongst both many Democrats as well as republicans, that Trump is a true Conservative, but in fact on most issues he is not!)

I don't think anyone views the President as a Conservative. As he has been described best - he is a Populist

 
 
 
Freedom Warrior
10.1.18  Freedom Warrior  replied to  Bob Nelson @10.1.16    one week ago
Trump is trying to bully China. China has four times America's population. This will not end well.

That's like saying 4 men are about to gang rape a women and the women is "bullying" them to stop.

That's right there is no happy ending.

 
 
 
Freedom Warrior
10.1.19  Freedom Warrior  replied to  Krishna @10.1.11    one week ago
Why? because true conservatives are pro-business,and therefore in favour of "free trade".

Agreed.  Except you go on to falsely suggest that Trump is not pursuing free trade in his negotiations with China and appear to be suffering under the false impression that the abusive trade relationship among other strategic matters that China engages in are not harmful to the US.  

If you want to discuss free trade honestly then begin by admitting that " free trade" with China is massively one sided and principally to their benefit.  As soon as China opens up their markets to free trade then we can begin to properly talk about these principles.

 
 
 
Bob Nelson
10.1.20  Bob Nelson  replied to  Freedom Warrior @10.1.18    one week ago
That's like saying...

The imagery in your head is... disturbing...

 
 
 
Freedom Warrior
10.1.21  Freedom Warrior  replied to  Bob Nelson @10.1.20    one week ago

And accurate.

 
 
 
Freedom Warrior
10.1.22  Freedom Warrior  replied to  Freedom Warrior @10.1.21    one week ago

By the way, everyone should be disturbed by what's going on in China.

 
 
 
Trout Giggles
11  Trout Giggles    one week ago

Why are we importing catfish from China? Catfish is a pretty big commodity here in Arkansas and I see billboards all up and down the highways encouraging people to buy US raised catfish.

It seems like we're importing too many things we can manufacture/produce right here in the good ol' USA. But I don't know nuttin' 'bout ekonumics

 
 
 
Bob Nelson
11.1  Bob Nelson  replied to  Trout Giggles @11    one week ago
Why are we importing catfish from China?

Price. Chinese catfish costs less, despite transport. If consumers are willing to pay a bit more, they can have American catfish.

 
 
 
Trout Giggles
11.1.1  Trout Giggles  replied to  Bob Nelson @11.1    one week ago

People are dumb. I would rather have something produced here in the USA and pay more for it.

 
 
 
Bob Nelson
11.1.2  Bob Nelson  replied to  Trout Giggles @11.1.1    one week ago

Sam Walton proved that you're an exception.

 
 
 
KDMichigan
11.2  KDMichigan  replied to  Trout Giggles @11    one week ago
we can manufacture/produce right here in the good ol' USA.

I never understood sending our chickens to china to be processed? 

More reason to buy farm raised local.

 
 
 
bbl-1
12  bbl-1    one week ago

"Just how much is $250 Billion in tariffs worth?" 

Depends upon who benefits from them.  And to be sure, there will be beneficiaries.

 
 
 
Krishna
13  Krishna    one week ago

There goes cheap flat screen tvs.

Maybe not.

IIRC, originally Trump seemed to want companies doing manufacturing in China to move their plants to the U.S.

But recently, while that is still his ultimate goal, it seems that he has been sending the message that since his main target is China, he might be OK with American companies in China leaving China-- no matter where they go. In other words, since his target is China, he's be Ok if they left China and went elsewhere even if its not the U,.S.

So in order to avoid specific anti-China tariffs, some  companies will be other places where labour is cheap-- for example Viet-Nam, India, etc.

(While the trade war might hurt both the U.S. as well as the Chinese economy-- it might start to benefit other countries such as India and some in SE Asia! Which means Americans migth still be able to eat their cheap TVs and have them too!). 

 
 
 
Jack_TX
14  Jack_TX    one week ago
American appetite for Chinese-made handbags could also take a drubbing under the list, which represents about half of the $500 billion worth of goods the U.S. imports from China annually.

I'm sorry...but I just don't think we're importing a half a trillon dollars worth of purses every year.  

 
 
 
Krishna
14.1  Krishna  replied to  Jack_TX @14    one week ago

I'm sorry...but I just don't think we're importing a half a trillon dollars worth of purses every year.  

I had read that the standards of math education in U.S. schools are pretty horrendous. I had been skeptical, but.....

 
 
 
Krishna
14.2  Krishna  replied to  Jack_TX @14    one week ago

I'm sorry...but I just don't think we're importing a half a trillon dollars worth of purses every year.  

Your skepticism is well founded. In fact, its more like 100 trillion purses!

Why so many? Well we don't actually need all those purses for use as..purses. Rather, we use them to keep all the catfish we're importing from China cool so they don't rot on the long boat ride from China to our Pacific ports!

 
 
 
Buzz of the Orient
14.2.1  Buzz of the Orient  replied to  Krishna @14.2    one week ago

My best laugh of the day. Thank you.  By the way, it's the boat that's TO China that's slow, not the one FROM China.

http://www.metrolyrics.com/id-like-to-get-you-on-a-slow-boat-to-china-lyrics-ella-fitzgerald.html

 
 
 
zuksam
14.3  zuksam  replied to  Jack_TX @14    one week ago
I just don't think we're importing a half a trillon dollars worth of purses every year

The total probably includes all those backpacks the kids take to school as well as any other duffle, pack, or pouch that's made in China. But you're right the story says handbags are on the "List" and the "List" represents about half of the $500 billion worth of goods the U.S. imports from China annually. So the List represents about 250 Billion in Chinese goods and Handbags are just a part of that, how big or small a part is not specified.

 
 
 
Thrawn 31
15  Thrawn 31    one week ago

I find it hilarious that retard and his retarded supporters actually think that tariffs mean the Chinese government is just sending us money. 

 
 
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