Trump announces $16 billion in aid to farmers as trade war continues

  
Via:  kavika  •  4 months ago  •  54 comments

Trump announces $16 billion in aid to farmers as trade war continues

S E E D E D   C O N T E N T


May 23, 2019, 4:50 PM EDT

By   Lauren Egan and Phil McCausland

WASHINGTON — President Donald Trump on Thursday announced a $16 billion aid package for American farmers aimed at softening the financial blow created by the ongoing trade war with China.

"Our farmers will be greatly helped," Trump said during a press event in the Roosevelt Room at the White House. "The 16 billion [dollar] funds will help keep our cherished farms thriving."


Thursday’s announcement comes as tensions continue to escalate between the United States and China and negotiations have largely stalled.

Earlier this month, talks between the two countries ended without a deal as Trump imposed another round of tariffs on $200 billion of Chinese goods. And both Trump and President Xi Jinping of China have signaled that they are prepared for a long fight, if necessary.







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Thursday's aid package is the second bailout the Trump administration has issued in response to decreased agriculture trade with China. Last November, Trump announced $12 billion in aid to “make it up” to farmers, as he described it.

"During that time of negotiation, if everyone remembers, we had a period where China would target our farms," Trump said Thursday. "Now is the time to insist on fair and reciprocal trade for our workers and our farmers."

Trump added that he was "hopeful" that trade talks could begin again with China, but if that didn't happen, "that’s fine."

"These tariffs are paid for largely by China," Trump continued, repeating claims that the tariffs were being paid out by China, not American importers. However, a study published Thursday by the International Monetary Fund found that the tariff revenue on Chinese goods   “has been borne almost entirely” by U.S. importers .

Communities that   supported Trump in the 2016 election   have been some of the hardest hit by the ongoing trade war, and some say there is reason for Republicans to be concerned as the window to reach a deal with China before the 2020 election continues to narrow.

“I think President Trump is counting on his tariff bailout payments to buy support for him among farmers, but this is a bigger issue,” Richard Oswald, 69, of Langdon, Missouri, a fifth generation farmer, said in a phone interview with NBC News. “This is going to bite a lot of Republicans when it’s all said and done. I don’t think he understands the stress people are under and it shows a lack of compassion.”

The timing of the administration's decision to roll out another bailout, as farmers are still deciding what crops to plant this season, has come under criticism from some lawmakers.

“We want farmers to make decisions on how many acres of corn and soybeans to plant based on the market and not something the government’s doing,” Sen. Chuck Grassley, R-Iowa, told reporters Wednesday.

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Kavika
1  seeder  Kavika     4 months ago
"These tariffs are paid for largely by China," Trump continued, repeating claims that the tariffs were being paid out by China, not American importers.

That simply isn't true. The importer pays the tariffs.

So, what are your thoughts on this trade war.

 
 
 
MrFrost
1.1  MrFrost  replied to  Kavika @1    4 months ago
So, what are your thoughts on this trade war.

It's socialism. And at this point, it's pandering for votes from the farmers that trump has screwed over. 

 
 
 
pat wilson
1.1.1  pat wilson  replied to  MrFrost @1.1    4 months ago
It's socialism.

More like massive welfare funded out of taxpayers' pockets.

 
 
 
Texan1211
1.1.2  Texan1211  replied to  pat wilson @1.1.1    4 months ago

Aren't all forms of welfare funded with taxpayer dollars?

 
 
 
MrFrost
1.1.3  MrFrost  replied to  pat wilson @1.1.1    4 months ago

One of the core beliefs in socialism is the government's involvement in private business. Like bail outs. So for all of trumps whining and crying about socialism being bad, he uses it quite often. 

 
 
 
Kavika
1.1.4  seeder  Kavika   replied to  MrFrost @1.1.3    4 months ago

When the US government bailed out GM/Chryser many were opposed to it from the right side of the aisle. Yet here we are once again this time  bailing out farmers. 

In addition there are other industries that are hurting. Are we going to bail them out as well. 

A good question.

 
 
 
pat wilson
1.1.5  pat wilson  replied to  Texan1211 @1.1.2    4 months ago

Obviously.

 
 
 
Dulay
1.1.6  Dulay  replied to  Kavika @1.1.4    4 months ago
When the US government bailed out GM/Chryser many were opposed to it from the right side of the aisle. Yet here we are once again this time  bailing out farmers. 

But government economic policy didn't intentionally cause the reason for the automaker bailout. The Tariff war was intentional and seems to be Trump's only 'solution' to an issue HE created. 

 
 
 
Texan1211
1.1.7  Texan1211  replied to  Kavika @1.1.4    4 months ago
When the US government bailed out GM/Chryser many were opposed to it from the right side of the aisle. Yet here we are once again this time bailing out farmers.
In addition there are other industries that are hurting. Are we going to bail them out as well.
A good question.

Both sides seem to complain that the other does something "wrong" when they themselves do virtually the same thing.

 
 
 
MUVA
1.1.8  MUVA  replied to  Texan1211 @1.1.7    4 months ago

It is hypocrisy at the highest level. I can barely stand the hypocrisy I see daily this site included. 

 
 
 
Kavika
1.1.9  seeder  Kavika   replied to  Dulay @1.1.6    4 months ago
But government economic policy didn't intentionally cause the reason for the automaker bailout. The Tariff war was intentional and seems to be Trump's only 'solution' to an issue HE created. 

That is true, it was market based. This trade war is a war of choice and, IMO, we are going about it the wrong way and I believe that a lot of Americans are going to be hurt by this before it's over. 

In fact, based on how polarized both sides are becoming we could see a huge re alignment of trade through out the world...

 
 
 
Kavika
1.1.10  seeder  Kavika   replied to  Texan1211 @1.1.7    4 months ago
Both sides seem to complain that the other does something "wrong" when they themselves do virtually the same thing.

That is true and it's M.O. of all politicians. 

This time around we have a real world problem that could change the trade alignment of the world in short order. 

All countries would be affected including both the US and China. 

 
 
 
Dulay
1.1.11  Dulay  replied to  Kavika @1.1.9    4 months ago
That is true, it was market based.

The Great Recession put a hit on the automakers and adding hundreds of thousands more to the unemployment lines would have lead to a depression IMHO. 

This trade war is a war of choice and, IMO, we are going about it the wrong way and I believe that a lot of Americans are going to be hurt by this before it's over.

Farmers have used the commodities market for centuries and now have no assurances on what their crops will bring at harvest this year.

Xi just made a speech telling the Chinese people that the tariffs weren't going away any time soon and they CHEERED. China is ramping up their own production of soy beans. Between Brazil and their own production, the Chinese may not come back to the American soy bean market after this. 

So this Trump fiasco may have a terrible lasting effect on American farmers. 

 
 
 
Dulay
1.1.12  Dulay  replied to  Texan1211 @1.1.7    4 months ago

The auto bailout and the farmer bailout aren't even remotely the same thing. 

 
 
 
MUVA
1.1.13  MUVA  replied to  Dulay @1.1.12    4 months ago

Why?Let me guess because you say so.

 
 
 
MrFrost
1.2  MrFrost  replied to  Kavika @1    4 months ago
The importer pays the tariffs.

Exactly..

 
 
 
JohnRussell
1.3  JohnRussell  replied to  Kavika @1    4 months ago

My thoughts are that Trump sees that much of his base is buying his bs about this and he is going to ride it. 

 
 
 
Buzz of the Orient
1.4  Buzz of the Orient  replied to  Kavika @1    4 months ago

I never studied economics or political economy, besides the fact that I am not that familiar with American financial and tax matters, so please correct me if I'm wrong.  I have read that Trump said he will be using the money gained through the tariffs to bail out the farmers.  And the TRUTH is (notwithstanding many who believe China pays the tariffs imposed by Trump) considering your comment that the importers pay the tariffs, my question is how do the importers compensate for their extra costs?  Is it not likely that the price of consumer end goods is eventually going to foot the bill?  Did I not just read that Walmart was raising their prices?  So please tell me if I'm wrong that, IMO, the tariffs that Trump is imposing to "punish" China, in fact "punishes" no others in the long run than the American consumers, and if the importers bear the costs and don't pass on their additional expense, the American importers themselves and/or their shareholders are being "punished".  I wonder what the fallout of that will be once the American public wakes up and realizes what's really happening.

 
 
 
Kavika
1.4.1  seeder  Kavika   replied to  Buzz of the Orient @1.4    4 months ago
my question is how do the importers compensate for their extra costs? 

The solution has always been that the importer will absorb some of the cost especially with a low tariff. Now that the tariffs are in the 25% range the cost will be passed on. 

So yes, in the end the American consumer will be footing the bill.

 
 
 
Buzz of the Orient
1.4.2  Buzz of the Orient  replied to  Kavika @1.4.1    4 months ago

So Trump must be relying on the ignorance of the everyday American consumers who don't realize that he is actually penalizing THEM with his policies rather than the Chinese.

 
 
 
Kavika
1.4.3  seeder  Kavika   replied to  Buzz of the Orient @1.4.2    4 months ago
So Trump must be relying on the ignorance of the everyday American consumers who don't realize that he is actually penalizing THEM with his policies rather than the Chinese

It's for some become a matter of we have to bring the Chinese to their knees. They are stealing from us. So it's some national pride involved. The same can be said of China, they are falling back on national pride to solidify the Chinese people for a extended trade war. 

 
 
 
Dulay
1.4.4  Dulay  replied to  Kavika @1.4.3    4 months ago
They are stealing from us.

In what way? 

I've read a few articles in the last couple of years about this claim and most of it comes from the fact that China requires companies that want to sell in China to create joint ventures with Chinese companies with tech transfers as part of the agreement. So if an American company wants access to the profit that China's 1.5 billion citizens could garner them, they make the deal.

In short, out of greed. 

BTW, the WTO prohibits such arrangements.

It seems to me that the Chinese are beating us at our own game, capitalism. 

So yes, we can and should negotiate BETTER trade policy with China but farmers and fishermen aren't the ones creating profitable joint ventures. In fact, farmers were trading with China just like they traded with every other country in the world. So farmers and fishermen [among others] are getting screwed so that American corporations can get a better deal. 

There are a plethora of ways other than tariffs for Trump to have dealt with China. 

 
 
 
MUVA
1.4.5  MUVA  replied to  Kavika @1.4.3    4 months ago

China is stealing and keeping markets closed china is protecting their bottom line while fucking the US.

 
 
 
Kavika
1.4.6  seeder  Kavika   replied to  Dulay @1.4.4    4 months ago
In what way? 

The stealing was intended to be what many think is happening to the US. Not my belief in that context.

The joint ventures required both sides to agree to a set of rules. China demanded tech transfers and the US companies agreed to them. So, yes, they made a deal with the devil and now want out of it. 

Greed is and always will be the driving force. 

 
 
 
Kavika
1.4.7  seeder  Kavika   replied to  MUVA @1.4.5    4 months ago

The joint ventures between Chinese and American companies required both parties to agree to a set of rules. China demanded tech transfers and the American companies agreed. 

Not stealing per se, but driving a better bargain. 

The US companies could have said no. 

 
 
 
MUVA
1.4.8  MUVA  replied to  Kavika @1.4.7    4 months ago

They force companies to comply they launder money and bribe governments  all over the world my brother investigates overseas banks  for credit suisse now after retiring from the FBI.

 
 
 
Dulay
1.4.9  Dulay  replied to  MUVA @1.4.5    4 months ago

They aren't stealing or keeping their markets closed. 

They ARE protecting their bottom line while fucking the competition. 

In short, they're WINNING at capitalism. 

 
 
 
MUVA
1.4.10  MUVA  replied to  Dulay @1.4.9    4 months ago

That isn't a free market but by all means believe what you like.  

 
 
 
Kavika
1.4.11  seeder  Kavika   replied to  MUVA @1.4.8    4 months ago
They force companies to comply they launder money and bribe governments  all over the world my brother investigates overseas banks  for credit suisse now after retiring from the FBI.

Companies have the choice to enter into the joint venture or not...They are not forced to do so. 

Do you have so facts or links to show the money laundering and bribes.

 
 
 
Dulay
1.4.12  Dulay  replied to  MUVA @1.4.10    4 months ago

We were talking about closed or open markets but you keep moving the goal posts if you must. 

 
 
 
Kavika
2  seeder  Kavika     4 months ago

OK EVERYONE, LET'S DISCUSS THE TRADE WAR. WHAT ARE YOUR THOUGHTS AS TO HOW IT IS GOING FOR THE US AND CHINA. WHAT COULD WE DO BETTER. ARE WE WINNING, WHAT IS THE COST TO AMERICANS ETC.

EVERYTHING POSTED AFTER THIS COMMENT THAT IS NOT ABOUT THE ABOVE WILL BE DELETED. 

 
 
 
Dulay
3  Dulay    4 months ago

My first question is, where the hell is he getting the 16 billion for his bribes from? 

 
 
 
Kavika
3.1  seeder  Kavika   replied to  Dulay @3    4 months ago

The $16 billion is coming from the tariffs being paid by the US importer. 

The first $12 billion for the farmers came from the same place.  

There are more serious questions that farmers are asking. No payment until you've planted. Flooded land, equipment being sold a bargain basement prices etc. 

 
 
 
Dulay
3.1.1  Dulay  replied to  Kavika @3.1    4 months ago
The $16 billion is coming from the tariffs being paid by the US importer. 

And through higher prices, the American taxpayer. So we're paying higher taxes so farmers get subsidies and vote for Trump again. Ain't it grand? 

 
 
 
Kavika
3.1.2  seeder  Kavika   replied to  Dulay @3.1.1    4 months ago
And through higher prices, the American taxpayer.

Yes, without a doubt the American taxpayer will have to pay higher prices for the product.  

 
 
 
 
MUVA
3.1.4  MUVA  replied to  Dulay @3.1.1    4 months ago

Yes compared to 600 billion in stolen intellectual property.

 
 
 
Kavika
3.1.5  seeder  Kavika   replied to  MUVA @3.1.3    4 months ago

The posted article is about the $16 billion in aid to farmers. 

A different source than your link, but the same information.

 
 
 
MUVA
3.1.6  MUVA  replied to  Kavika @3.1.5    4 months ago

The money is coming from the commodity credit  corporation not sure if it is funded by tariffs.  

 
 
 
Dulay
3.1.7  Dulay  replied to  MUVA @3.1.4    4 months ago

Please post a link about this 'stolen' property. Please make sure it isn't about American companies tranfering intellectual property contractually since that isn't stealing. 

 
 
 
Dulay
3.1.8  Dulay  replied to  MUVA @3.1.6    4 months ago
The money is coming from the commodity credit corporation not sure if it is funded by tariffs.

In short, the taxpayer. 

 
 
 
Kavika
3.1.9  seeder  Kavika   replied to  MUVA @3.1.6    4 months ago
The money is coming from the commodity credit  corporation not sure if it is funded by tariffs.  

Not according to Trump. 

These tariffs are paid for largely by China," Trump continued, repeating claims that the tariffs were being paid out by China, not American importers. 
 
 
 
Split Personality
3.1.10  Split Personality  replied to  MUVA @3.1.6    4 months ago

No, technically, the tarrifs have nothing to do with CCC funding.

The CCC has multiple funding mechanisms. Most of the domestic programs are operated out of a revolving fund, in which the CCC has a permanent indefinite borrowing authority, as defined by Office of Management and Budget (OMB) Circular A-11 , Preparation, Submission, and Execution of the Budget. Borrowing authority permits the Corporation to incur obligations and authorizes it to borrow funds to liquidate the obligations. This fund also receives money from appropriated funding for costs incurred (i.e., realized losses), loan repayments, inventory sales, interest income, and fees. Additionally, the CCC receives direct appropriations for specific programs such as its Credit Reform programs, foreign grant and donation programs, and disaster relief. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Commodity_Credit_Corporation

Tariffs collected are put in the General Fund and treated as Tax Revenue.  They are not intended to raise revenue, rather they seek to discourage the purchasing of certain products by the citizens.  Existing pre Trump tariffs were averaging $40 billion per year.  This year we have already collected $66 billion.

 
 
 
Split Personality
3.1.11  Split Personality  replied to  Kavika @3.1.9    4 months ago
A tariff is a tax on imported goods. Despite what the President says, it is almost always paid directly by the importer (usually a domestic firm), and never by the exporting country. Thus, if the US imposes a tariff on Chinese televisions, the duty is paid to the US Customs and Border Protection Service at the border by a US broker representing a US importer, say, Costco.

The Chinese government pays nothing, just as the US government pays no tax to Canada for that nation’s tariffs on imported dairy products. Rather, an importer or supplier for a Canadian supermarket pays the duty on Wisconsin cheese that lands in the grocer’s dairy counter (though I suspect few Canadian retailers are selling much US cheese these days, given the recent unpleasantness between the two countries).

https://www.taxpolicycenter.org/taxvox/what-tariff-and-who-pays-it
 
 
 
Dulay
3.1.12  Dulay  replied to  Kavika @3.1.9    4 months ago

You're challenging cognitive dissonance. /s

 
 
 
Enoch
4  Enoch    4 months ago

Farmers and fisherman, at least those I know in upstate NY are concerned about losing portions of their markets in China. The issue isn't just now, but going forward.

A grower of crops without a market is a gardener.  

A raiser of livestock without a market is a zoo keeper.

A fisherman without a market has an aquatic hobby.

China is about 25% of the planet's population. 

Losing carefully cultivated markets in China is a long term problem in agronomy. 

Of course China has not obeyed treaties sand laws. 

No argument there.

The question is what is the best way to address this?

Working with our allies (strength in numbers) seems a better way to go here.

Enoch.

 
 
 
charger 383
5  charger 383    4 months ago

When we decided to go away from a manufacturing economy was when the problem started.  We need to get our industrial capacity back. 

 
 
 
Kavika
5.1  seeder  Kavika   replied to  charger 383 @5    4 months ago
We need to get our industrial capacity back. 

IMO, much of that manufacturing isn't coming back for a number of reasons. Automation and many other countries now are major manufacturers themselves.  

I'm not disagreeing just pointing out that, IMO, it isn't going to happen on the scale that people would like to see.

 
 
 
charger 383
5.1.1  charger 383  replied to  Kavika @5.1    4 months ago

We need to be making and using the automatic machines.  

 
 
 
Kavika
6  seeder  Kavika     4 months ago
Working with our allies (strength in numbers) seems a better way to go here.

Yet we have a trade war going on with them as well...I completely agree with you and working with our allies. It would make much more sense that the US/EU/Canada/Mexico etc form a united front to settle the problems with China.

 
 
 
Dulay
6.1  Dulay  replied to  Kavika @6    4 months ago
It would make much more sense that the US/EU/Canada/Mexico etc form a united front to settle the problems with China.

China is already dealing with Mexico, Canada and the EU one on one. Trump has alienated them all. 

 
 
 
Kavika
6.1.1  seeder  Kavika   replied to  Dulay @6.1    4 months ago
China is already dealing with Mexico, Canada and the EU one on one. Trump has alienated them all. 

That is true. Mexico has become China's 15th largest trading partner with $44.1 billion in trade in 2018.

 
 
 
Dulay
7  Dulay    4 months ago

When I said 'we' I meant MUVA and I. 

Did you miss:

China is stealing and keeping markets closed china is protecting their bottom line while fucking the US.

And: 

They aren't stealing or keeping their markets closed.

Now he's moved to 'free markets'...

 
 
 
Kavika
8  seeder  Kavika     4 months ago

Locking the article for the night. Will re open it tomorrow.

 
 
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