The Harriet Tubman $20 bill was set for 2020. Now the Trump administration says it won't happen for years

  
Via:  john-russell  •  3 months ago  •  116 comments

The Harriet Tubman $20 bill was set for 2020. Now the Trump administration says it won't happen for years

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The Harriet Tubman $20 bill was set for 2020. Now the Trump administration says it won't happen for years


May 23, 2019

Harriet Tubman $20 bill facing delays 

Don't bet on seeing a Harriet Tubman $20 bill anytime soon. The redesigned bill bearing Tubman's face, which was supposed to debut next year, will not be coming out for nearly a decade, Treasury Secretary Steve Mnuchin said.

Planning started years ago to have Tubman replace former President Andrew Jackson on the $20 bill. Tubman, who was born into slavery and became a noted abolitionist and political activist, would be the first black woman to have her face on U.S. currency. The new bill was scheduled to be released in 2020 to coincide with the 100th anniversary of the 19th Amendment, which gave women the right to vote.

But Mnuchin said Wednesday that it won't be happening under the Trump administration.

"It's not a decision that is likely to come until way past my term, even if I serve the second term for the president," Mnuchin told the House Financial Services Committee. "So I'm not focused on that for the moment."

In the Women on 20s grassroots campaign, which inspired bills in the House and the Senate, Harriet Tubman came out the frontrunner to replace President Andrew Jackson on the $20 bill, after more than 600,000 people cast ballots. WomenOn20s.org


Mnuchin said a redesign of the bill's security features will still come out in 2020. But the issue of changing how the bill looks "most likely" won't come up again until 2026, he said, and the new $20 bill won't be printed until 2028.

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Mnuchin did not explain why the Tubman bill won't be produced on his watch. He also did not state whether he personally supports seeing Tubman on the money. "I've made no decision as it relates to that," he said.

Democratic Rep. Ayanna Pressley of Massachusetts, who grilled Mnuchin about the Tubman plan, tweeted after the hearing: "People other than white men built this county. And Sec Mnuchin agrees, yet he refuses to update our #currency."

Mnuchin's predecessor in the Obama administration, Jack Lew, oversaw a 10-month process in which the public suggested hundreds of people whose portraits could appear on U.S. bills. He said that process "inspired" him to put Tubman on the $20 bill. The Treasury Department announced in April 2016 that it would work on getting the new bill out "as quickly as possible."

President Trump said during the 2016 campaign that he did not support putting Tubman on the 20, calling the plan "pure political correctness." He suggested instead having Tubman on "the $2 bill" or "another bill."

Mr. Trump has expressed admiration for President Andrew Jackson, who was a slave owner, and had a portrait of him put in the Oval Office.

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JohnRussell
1  seeder  JohnRussell    3 months ago

This is strictly a bone being thrown to trump's white racist fans. 

Maybe Trump should get Frederick Douglas on the phone and see what he thinks. 

 
 
 
Enoch
1.1  Enoch  replied to  JohnRussell @1    3 months ago

Dear Friend John Russell: The Harriet Tubman home {part of the underground railroad} (now museum) in Auburn, NY is something all upstate New Yorker's and visitors put on their to visit list.

Ms. Tubman is revered here in upstate NY, as are Susan B. Anthony, Anne Elanor Roosevelt  and other prominent upstate NY women leaders. 

To us their are of sacred memory.

We make it our business to carry on their good work.

We look forward to Ms.Tubmans's image on the $20 ASAP. 

P&AB.

Enoch.

 

 
 
 
epistte
1.2  epistte  replied to  JohnRussell @1    3 months ago
This is strictly a bone being thrown to trump's white racist fans.  Maybe Trump should get Frederick Douglas on the phone and see what he thinks. 

Trump's supporters would rather have Robert E Lee or Jefferson Davis on the $20.00.    Putin would be on the $50.00

 
 
 
1stwarrior
1.2.1  1stwarrior  replied to  epistte @1.2    3 months ago

[deleted]

 
 
 
epistte
1.2.2  epistte  replied to  1stwarrior @1.2.1    3 months ago

Did a miss a juicy reply? PM me if you saw it. Thanks.

 
 
 
bbl-1
2  bbl-1    3 months ago

When Mnuchin said, "It won't be happening under the Trump Administration," believe him.

They got Carson, their obligation is fulfilled.

This too.  Perhaps the administration is having a bad 'bone spur day.'

 
 
 
Paula Bartholomew
2.1  Paula Bartholomew  replied to  bbl-1 @2    3 months ago

Trump wants HIS picture on the bill, but he probably thinks a 20 is beneath him, monetarily wise.

 
 
 
It Is ME
2.1.1  It Is ME  replied to  Paula Bartholomew @2.1    3 months ago
Trump wants HIS picture on the bill, but he probably thinks a 20 is beneath him

I have one ! jrSmiley_15_smiley_image.gif

It's 24k Gold Too ! jrSmiley_13_smiley_image.gif

320

 
 
 
epistte
2.1.2  epistte  replied to  It Is ME @2.1.1    3 months ago

How much did you pay for that? 

 
 
 
It Is ME
2.1.3  It Is ME  replied to  epistte @2.1.2    3 months ago
How much did you pay for that? 

I forgot !

 
 
 
epistte
2.1.4  epistte  replied to  It Is ME @2.1.3    3 months ago

If it was more than $.25, you paid far too much. 

I would shred it if someone gave it to me for free. 

 
 
 
It Is ME
2.1.5  It Is ME  replied to  epistte @2.1.4    3 months ago

I'm not You …. jrSmiley_13_smiley_image.gif!

 
 
 
epistte
2.1.6  epistte  replied to  It Is ME @2.1.5    3 months ago
I'm not You …

Praise be to FSM for that.

 
 
 
It Is ME
2.1.7  It Is ME  replied to  epistte @2.1.6    3 months ago

I know ….. right ? jrSmiley_15_smiley_image.gif

 
 
 
Tacos!
3  Tacos!    3 months ago
President Andrew Jackson, who was a slave owner

Why is this always presented as if it were relevant? Washington and Jefferson both owned slaves and they're all over the money! Each of them are on both bills and coins. The capitol is named for Washington. There are huge stone memorials to both men.

But Jackson owned slaves, therefore he's the evil one. We either need to decide that all our early leaders were evil men and erase them from history, or we need to take some historical perspective and get over it.

 
 
 
Split Personality
3.1  Split Personality  replied to  Tacos! @3    3 months ago

It's not just that he owned slaves, he totally advocated for the westward expansion of slavery, but that may have been one of his more savory features.

He was overly aggressive and bad tempered - involved in at least 3 duels ( killed Chas Dickensen ) and was a brutal Commander during the War of 1812 especially when he declared Marshall law in New Orleans and suspended the writ of habeas corpus for the only time on American soil.  He treated his soldiers badly after the victory.  He is reviled by amost every surviving American Indian today.

The following are 7 reasons why Andrew Jackson should be removed from the 20 dollar bill, and replaced with a woman.

1. Andrew Jackson hated paper money. As president, Andrew Jackson refused to acknowledge paper money as a real form of currency, and instead favored gold and silver. So, does it really make sense to put his face all over our money today?

2. No one has any idea why he’s on the 20. That’s right. Not even the treasury knows why he was chosen all those years ago to replace Cleveland. With no compelling, historical reason to keep him on, it seems very easy to take him off.

3. Andrew Jackson dismantled the Second Bank of the United States, meaning his stance on economics wasn’t exactly sound. This caused the Panic of 1837, a devastating depression in our nation’s history. Who would we rather keep on a bill? Hamilton, who started our nation’s economy, or Jackson, who almost destroyed it.

4. Andrew Jackson was not only a slave owner but an advocate for the expansion of slavery to the western United States. The message it would send by replacing Jackson with a woman like Harriet Tubman would be extremely powerful.

5. Andrew Jackson was responsible for the “Indian Removal Act”. Passed by Jackson in 1830, this act led to thousands of Native Americans to be forced off their land. It is a continuing show of disrespect to keep Jackson on our currency when he so callously mistreated the Native population.

6. Andrew Jackson didn’t acknowledge the rights of Native Americans. When the Cherokee tribe was being threatened by the state of George to leave their land, they sued the state in the supreme court case of “Worcester v Georgia”. They won their rights as a sovereign nation, meaning neither Georgia or the United States had the right to enforce laws over them. With the introduction of the “Indian Removal Act”, Jackson completely ignored this ruling. His blatant disrespect of the Cherokee Nation underscores the inappropriateness of his presence on our currency in a modern, more enlightened era.

7. Andrew Jackson literally committed a genocide. The “Indian Removal Act” he passed resulted in the Trail of Tears; a forced evacuation of the Cherokee people that led to the death over 5,000 of the tribe’s citizens. Keeping a man who committed such a crime on our currency is inexcusable.

http://affinitymagazine.us/2015/12/06/201512067-reasons-why-andrew-jackson-needs-to-be-removed-from-the-20-dollar-bill/
 
 
 
Jack_TX
3.1.1  Jack_TX  replied to  Split Personality @3.1    3 months ago

Bookmarking your list for when JohnRussel next proclaims that Trump is the worst president in US history.

Frankly, I don't care if they remove Jackson.  But I do think appearing on currency should be an honor reserved for dead presidents.   Yes, that means we would need to do something about Ben Franklin.  

Harriet Tubman was an American hero.  But not more of a hero than Teddy Roosevelt, John Adams or GHWB. 

 
 
 
Split Personality
3.1.2  Split Personality  replied to  Split Personality @3.1    3 months ago

For those who think Trump is vilified unfairly, this cartoon was reproduced many times with different captions about Jackson's Executive "over-reach"

ignoring a SCOTUS ruling etc.

384

 
 
 
Split Personality
3.1.3  Split Personality  replied to  Jack_TX @3.1.1    3 months ago
But I do think appearing on currency should be an honor reserved for dead presidents.

But it isn't a rule, in fact Martha Washington was on a $1 bill and we have had Bison $10, an anonymous(?) American Indian Chief, $5, Eagles, trains, boats and angels.

Chief Justice John Marshall $500,  Alexander Hamilton is on the $1,000 bill and the $10,

and Justice Salmon P Chase is on both the $5,000 and $10,000 notes.  (Who the heck was he?)

All of the larger notes are still legal tender but discontinued in 1969 along with President Wilson's $100,000.00 note.

 
 
 
Jack_TX
3.1.4  Jack_TX  replied to  Split Personality @3.1.3    3 months ago
But it isn't a rule,

Oh I realize that.  That would just be my preference.

 
 
 
Split Personality
3.1.5  Split Personality  replied to  Jack_TX @3.1.4    3 months ago

And a good preference at that.

But like the naming of US naval vessels, there is always an exception to traditions and preferences, lol.

 
 
 
Dismayed Patriot
3.1.6  Dismayed Patriot  replied to  Jack_TX @3.1.4    3 months ago
Oh I realize that.  That would just be my preference.

Well, it's a preference that I'm sure is shared with many white supremacists and sexists who want the white male image on everything of value. Proclaiming a preference for "Presidents only" on our money instantly restricts the options to virtually all white males except for our last great President who was only half white but still all male. I'm not saying everyone who wants only Presidents on their money is racist or sexist, but I believe nearly all racists and sexists would favor only Presidents on their money.

 
 
 
Tacos!
3.1.7  Tacos!  replied to  Split Personality @3.1    3 months ago
It's not just that he owned slaves

But that is the go-to complaint about him in this article and elsewhere. I think it's presented, in part, as a counterpoint to Tubman, who was, of course, born a slave. My point is that there is nothing unique in Andrew Jackson about owning slaves or even advocating for the system. He was a man of his times and his peers in American leadership were very much like him.

And if you want to hold him up as someone who was hostile to native Americans, that's a pretty big group, too. Washington made war on Indians in every direction, often with crappy results. Though Thomas Jefferson didn't "remove" any Indians, he did write in support of the idea. Remember also that the first Indian Removal act may have been signed by Jackson, but it was first passed by Congress.

The anti-Jackson people want to act like he was the only person who ever took any action against Indians and that he did it all himself. Really, there more "removing" done under Martin Van Buren than under Jackson. The fact is American settlers were going to push west and nothing was going to stop them. Every president since Washington could see that. Heck, what does Jefferson's "purchase" of the Louisiana territory say about concepts of Indian land rights?

They have seduced the greater part of the tribes within our neighborhood, to take up the hatchet against us, and the cruel massacres they have committed on the women and children of our frontiers taken by surprise, will oblige us now to pursue them to extermination, or drive them to new seats beyond our reach. - Thomas Jefferson
 
 
 
Tacos!
3.1.8  Tacos!  replied to  Jack_TX @3.1.1    3 months ago
But I do think appearing on currency should be an honor reserved for dead presidents.

I agree you should be dead to be on the money, but I don't think it needs to be limited to presidents. Alexander Hamilton is on the $10 bill, and I think that's reasonable considering his contributions to our early economy. I have no problem with Tubman on the money, either. I just think it's bogus, trendy, and the PC politics of the moment to act like Andrew Jackson is suddenly undeserving of anything other than universal hate.

 
 
 
Jack_TX
3.1.9  Jack_TX  replied to  Dismayed Patriot @3.1.6    3 months ago
I'm not saying everyone who wants only Presidents on their money is racist or sexist, 

Then you might want to lead with that, because your first sentence certainly gave exactly the opposite impression.

You do realize that the implementation of that rule would remove two white men from the currency, yes?  Further, the support of Tubman because she was black and female is itself "racist" and "sexist".  

Again, Harriet Tubman was an American hero.  But her actions were not more heroic than any Medal of Honor winner.  Why aren't we talking about putting them on the currency?  Her actions were no more heroic than Mary Ludwig Hays McCauley.  Why doesn't she get a bill?   Pretending that choosing a person because of their gender and ethnicity somehow represents "justice", correcting the "injustice" of choosing people based on race and gender is more than a little nonsensical.

I simply believe there should be some sort of standardization as to who gets on currency.  We're not talking about commemorative postage stamps.  It's a very high honor, and as such there should be some guidelines on how it is bestowed.

 
 
 
Jack_TX
3.1.10  Jack_TX  replied to  Tacos! @3.1.8    3 months ago
I agree you should be dead to be on the money, but I don't think it needs to be limited to presidents. Alexander Hamilton is on the $10 bill, and I think that's reasonable considering his contributions to our early economy. I have no problem with Tubman on the money, either.

I can understand that.

I think I'm sticking with "dead presidents", but I certainly don't think your view is unreasonable.

I just think it's bogus, trendy, and the PC politics of the moment to act like Andrew Jackson is suddenly undeserving of anything other than universal hate.

That's just a function of huge numbers of young people waking up to the reality that life wasn't always as protected as theirs has been.

 
 
 
Split Personality
3.1.11  Split Personality  replied to  Tacos! @3.1.7    3 months ago
Remember also that the first Indian Removal act may have been signed by Jackson, but it was first passed by Congress.

and found unconstitutional - which Jackson just ignored.

384

 
 
 
Sean Treacy
3.1.12  Sean Treacy  replied to  Split Personality @3.1.11    3 months ago
and found unconstitutional - which Jackson just ignored.

No it wasn't.  The Supreme Court ruled a Georgia law was unconstitutional.  

He also never said the quote in question. 

 
 
 
Mark in Wyoming
3.1.13  Mark in Wyoming  replied to  Split Personality @3.1.3    3 months ago

$500  would be William McKinley not marshall

$1000 would be  Grover Cleveland not  Alexander Hamilton

$5000 would be James Madison not SP Chase( he was Sec of treas under Lincoln during the civil war and was also the 6th Chief justice of the USSC)

$10,000 is SP Chase

$100,000 is Woodrow Wilson

never saw Martha Washington on a bill.

 
 
 
Split Personality
3.1.14  Split Personality  replied to  Sean Treacy @3.1.12    3 months ago
No it wasn't.  The Supreme Court ruled a Georgia law was unconstitutional. 

If the Georgia law was unconstitutional, and Jackson ignored it, the same law passed by Congress was equally unconstitutional.

as to the Jackson  never making that statement, I await your proof.

All of the negotiations with Jackson were over the Georgia law and the SCOTUS interpretation of the same.

https://www.historynet.com/indian-removal-act

 
 
 
Split Personality
3.1.15  Split Personality  replied to  Mark in Wyoming @3.1.13    3 months ago

Keep in mind that different people were on different denominations over long periods of time

$500, John Marshall, Blue Seal  -  McKinley was Green Seal

384

$1000.00 Alexander Hamilton - Blue seal, Grover Cleveland was Green Seal
384
$5000 would be James Madison not SP Chase  ( he was Sec of treas under Lincoln during the civil war and was also the 6th Chief justice of the USSC )
Agree to disagree, Madison was a Green Seal.  I will have to look for a picture of a Chase $5,000 Blue Seal.  (I was actually being sarcastic about Chase as only history buffs would know him)
Chase $ 10,000.00 = glad we agree...
Wilson, $100,000.00, only used in official bank transactions, glad we agree again.
Martha Washington?  Are you kidding? old 1s, 2s, 5s and 10 dollar bills are like the American story.
384
384
384
384
Chief Onepapa
384
Take it back to 1900, and you have:
Lady Liberty: every single coin
Chief Onepapa: $5 silver certificate
Daniel Webster: $10 United States note
Lews & Clark: $10 United States Note
VP Thomas Hendricks: $10 Silver Certificate
Michael Hillegas, 1st US Treasurer: $10 Gold Certificate  ( preceded Alex Hamilton, who, after the Revolution became the first Secretary of the Treasury )
Former Treasury Secretary Hugh McCulloch: $20 National Bank Note
Former Comptroller of the currency John J. Knox, $50 National Bank Note
Thomas Hart Benton, $100 Gold Certificate
Former Chief Justice John Marshall, $500 Federal Reserve Note
and one of my favorite designs, long forgotten, nearly naked angels...
512
 
 
 
Sean Treacy
3.1.16  Sean Treacy  replied to  Split Personality @3.1.14    3 months ago
If the Georgia law was unconstitutional, and Jackson ignored it, the same law passed by Congress was equally unconstitutional.

You should at least look at Marshall's opinion.  That claim is false on every level. That states and the Federal government have different powers is a basic premise of our system of government. Moreover, the laws in question are not the same. 

as to the Jackson  never making that statement, I await your proof.

I'm not going to waste timing proving a negative, but no serious historian will credit that statement to him. 

 
 
 
Mark in Wyoming
3.1.17  Mark in Wyoming  replied to  Split Personality @3.1.15    3 months ago

Those blue seal notes are not common currency, usually in the lower denominations , they have printed on them silver certificate, reminants of back when the US was on the gold and silver standard , back when our currencies were actually backed by something other than a fiat "promise" of worth. the higher denomination blue seal notes  where used exclusively by the government with other governments and thus not in public circulation nor even in circulation within the banking system like some I pointed out , I know the highest denomination single bill I have ever seen personally has been a $1000 bill and even then it was in a bank, and I was told they were not for gen pop circulation , remember this was back before the internet and electronic banking , when banks actually had to transfer actual funds to cover their bank notes . cheques.

paper currency for the gen pop use has always had the red , or green seal, with the lower denomination blue seal silver certificates being available to people until the silver standard was done away with under Nixon.

My best personal "find" was a $10 note from the Chicago federal reserve dated 1934, I got it overseas, when I cashed a check on base while I was stationed there.

Another personal best was when I got a dollar bill with 8 nines in the serial number, I held on to that one for years to play liars poker with. 

 
 
 
Split Personality
3.1.18  Split Personality  replied to  Mark in Wyoming @3.1.17    3 months ago
Those blue seal notes are not common currency,

That is why I stated

All of the larger notes are still legal tender but discontinued in 1969 along with President Wilson's $100,000.00 note.

None the less, they exist and, as I stated, they are still legal tender if you find one.

have a good holiday weekend.

 
 
 
Split Personality
3.1.19  Split Personality  replied to  Sean Treacy @3.1.16    3 months ago
I'm not going to waste timing proving a negative

Good to hear, have a good holiday weekend.

 
 
 
Mark in Wyoming
3.1.20  Mark in Wyoming  replied to  Split Personality @3.1.18    3 months ago

Have a good weekend yourself.

Finding one of those high denomination bills ? lol I think I would have better luck finding a 1933 gold double eagle , than finding one of those old bills.

 
 
 
Paula Bartholomew
3.2  Paula Bartholomew  replied to  Tacos! @3    3 months ago

Three words of relevancy....Trail Of Tears.

 
 
 
Sean Treacy
3.2.1  Sean Treacy  replied to  Paula Bartholomew @3.2    3 months ago

Better watch out for the Van Buren Boys.

The trail of tears took place under Martin Van Buren. 

 
 
 
Split Personality
3.2.2  Split Personality  replied to  Sean Treacy @3.2.1    3 months ago

And would never have happened without Andrew jackson

or the fact that Van Buren was hand picked by Jackson.

The most you can disparage is the legacy of the early Democratic party.

 
 
 
Paula Bartholomew
3.2.3  Paula Bartholomew  replied to  Sean Treacy @3.2.1    3 months ago

Yes, but it was Jackson who put it in motion with the Indian Removal Process.

 
 
 
Bob Nelson
4  Bob Nelson    3 months ago

The Tubman twenty-dollar bill would be an honor for a Black woman.

Trump will never allow such a horrific event.

 
 
 
Freedom Warrior
5  Freedom Warrior    3 months ago

Talk about devaluation of the currency.  Good thing it will all be digital by then.

 
 
 
sandy-2021492
5.1  sandy-2021492  replied to  Freedom Warrior @5    3 months ago
Talk about devaluation of the currency.

Care to say why you feel that way?

 
 
 
Tessylo
5.1.1  Tessylo  replied to  sandy-2021492 @5.1    3 months ago

I think it's pretty clear.  

 
 
 
Freedom Warrior
5.1.2  Freedom Warrior  replied to  sandy-2021492 @5.1    3 months ago

Alexander Hamilton should remain on the $20 bill.  [delete]

 
 
 
1stwarrior
5.1.3  1stwarrior  replied to  Freedom Warrior @5.1.2    3 months ago

Don't wanna respond??  Don't read the threads.

 
 
 
Freedom Warrior
5.1.4  Freedom Warrior  replied to  1stwarrior @5.1.3    3 months ago

[Removed

 
 
 
Split Personality
5.1.5  Split Personality  replied to  1stwarrior @5.1.3    3 months ago

Apparently he doesn't.

Alexander Hamilton,   is on the $10.00 bill not the $20

 
 
 
Freedom Warrior
5.1.6  Freedom Warrior  replied to  Split Personality @5.1.5    3 months ago

Gotcha!  That's what I meant of course.  Just another old dead white guy right.

 
 
 
Paula Bartholomew
5.1.7  Paula Bartholomew  replied to  Freedom Warrior @5.1.2    3 months ago

He is not on it....Jackson is.

 
 
 
Paula Bartholomew
5.1.8  Paula Bartholomew  replied to  Freedom Warrior @5.1.6    3 months ago

jrSmiley_18_smiley_image.gif

 
 
 
epistte
5.1.9  epistte  replied to  Freedom Warrior @5.1.6    3 months ago
Gotcha!  That's what I meant of course.  Just another old dead white guy right.

Why is it important to you to have old white guys on our money? 

 
 
 
Raven Wing
5.1.10  Raven Wing  replied to  epistte @5.1.9    3 months ago
Why is it important to you to have old white guys on our money?

Because so many people think that Blacks, dead or alive, should 'know their place.' 

 
 
 
Bob Nelson
5.1.11  Bob Nelson  replied to  Raven Wing @5.1.10    3 months ago

C'mon, RW! It's not because Tubman was Black. That would be racist... unthinkable on NT.

It's because she was a woman. Misogyny is OK.

 
 
 
Raven Wing
5.1.12  Raven Wing  replied to  Bob Nelson @5.1.11    3 months ago
It's because she was a woman. Misogyny is OK

I dunno.....Susan B Anthony has her face on the dollar coin and she is not Black, and no one objected to that. But, then  Susan B was White

 
 
 
Bob Nelson
5.1.13  Bob Nelson  replied to  Raven Wing @5.1.12    3 months ago

Hmmm........    jrSmiley_26_smiley_image.gif

 
 
 
Jack_TX
5.1.14  Jack_TX  replied to  Raven Wing @5.1.10    3 months ago
Because so many people think that Blacks, dead or alive, should 'know their place.' 

1950 called and wants its slogan back.

Seriously, where do you live that you meet people who say that?

 
 
 
epistte
5.1.15  epistte  replied to  Jack_TX @5.1.14    3 months ago
1950 called and wants its slogan back. Seriously, where do you live that you meet people who say that?

It is what is meant by Make America Great Again.  These people want WASPs to be in control again, just like Ward and June Cleaver.  The old white Trump supporters want to turn the clock back 60 years to when they last thought that the US was great.

 
 
 
Raven Wing
5.1.16  Raven Wing  replied to  Jack_TX @5.1.14    3 months ago
Seriously, where do you live that you meet people who say that?

Here on NT. Where do you live? I lived in East Texas as a young girl and lived with the racial bigotry and prejudice, and it is still alive and going strong. It is a bigotry and prejudice that has NEVER died, no matter what year it is. 

And if all you are here to do is bait, then find another fishing pole. 

 
 
 
epistte
5.1.17  epistte  replied to  Raven Wing @5.1.16    3 months ago
And if all you are here to do is bait, then find another fishing pole. 

Trump support was driven by racism and sexism among blue-collar voters. He appealed to bigots. 

Some disproven theories simply refuse to die. Among them is the notion that President Donald Trump's 2016 victory was largely due to economic anxiety on the part of blue-collar whites.

Democratic presidential hopeful Pete Buttigieg has made that argument repeatedly of late, citing "the failure of this enormous American prosperity to reach so many people in so many communities," and Trump's promises of radical change, as the reasons for the president's upset win.

But a major study published a year ago found that Trump's support among non-college-educated whites—arguably the key to his Electoral College success—was driven far more by sexism and racism than by economic anxiety.

Now, a new study that focuses on one key constituency—white people in Iowa who voted for Barack Obama, and later for Trump—comes to that same conclusion.

"Economic distress is not a significant factor in explaining the shift in Iowa voters from Democrat to Republican between 2008 and 2016," write Iowa State University sociologists Ann Oberhauser, Daniel Krier, and Abdi Kusow. "The election outcomes do not signify [a revolt] among working-class voters left behind by globalization."

https://psmag.com/news/new-study-confirms-again-that-race-not-economics-drove-former-democrats-to-trump

 
 
 
Jack_TX
5.1.18  Jack_TX  replied to  epistte @5.1.15    3 months ago
It is what is meant by Make America Great Again. 

Is it now??  And your vast experience with people who use this phrase includes a sample of.....how many... exactly?

These people want WASPs to be in control again, just like Ward and June Cleaver. 

"These people".  As in  "the imaginary people you've never met but you need to vilify to vindicate your zealotry".

The old white Trump supporters want to turn the clock back 60 years to when they last thought that the US was great.

You realize most of those old white Trump supporters were young white hippies when they first started voting.  Imagine what you have to look forward to.

 
 
 
Tessylo
5.1.19  Tessylo  replied to  Jack_TX @5.1.18    3 months ago

Those old farts were never hippies.

Your usual nonsense 

 
 
 
Jack_TX
5.1.20  Jack_TX  replied to  Raven Wing @5.1.16    3 months ago
Here on NT.

You've read the phrase "know their place" here on NT??  Sorry, I'm calling bullshit on that one.

Where do you live?

Dallas.

I lived in East Texas as a young girl and lived with the racial bigotry and prejudice, and it is still alive and going strong.

It is.  But it's not stupid or obvious like "know their place", and if that's the most intelligent level of discussion we can have about it we'll be stuck with it for the next 100 years.

It is a bigotry and prejudice that has NEVER died, no matter what year it is. 

So why not move the discussion into the 21st century?  Why not start talking about white flight and why black kids' SAT scores are 300 points lower than white kids'? (and for God's sake come up with more than "more funding")  Why not start talking about the dearth of black engineers, black dentists, black CPAs and the other low-mid 6 figure occupations that enable families and communities to create wealth.  

And if all you are here to do is bait, then find another fishing pole.

And if all you're here to do is make up preposterous shit about people you imagine from 60 years ago to justify your anger against people who are nothing like that today.........

 
 
 
lib50
5.1.21  lib50  replied to  Jack_TX @5.1.18    3 months ago
You realize most of those old white Trump supporters were young white hippies when they first started voting.

You are totally wrong about that.   They may have married the future maga farts, but hippies don't swing Trump at all.

 
 
 
Raven Wing
5.1.22  Raven Wing  replied to  Jack_TX @5.1.20    3 months ago
Sorry, I'm calling bullshit on that one.

And YOU have read every comment that has ever been written here on NT? I call BS on your thinking you know everything that has happened here on NT to make that statement!

When you don't know Jack about what you're talking about, best to just keep your BS to yourself! 

Now get lost! I have nothing more to say to you, and am totally not interested in any more BS from you!

 
 
 
Jack_TX
5.1.23  Jack_TX  replied to  Raven Wing @5.1.22    3 months ago
And YOU have read every comment that has ever been written here on NT?

Of course not.  But indirect proof doesn't work on this.  You're claiming "so many people" think this...yet you can't seem to demonstrate any evidence of it ever appearing except in your imagination.

When you don't know Jack about what you're talking about, best to just keep your BS to yourself!  Now get lost! I have nothing more to say to you, and am totally not interested in any more BS from you!

That's just sad.

If you're not willing to put in any intellectual effort, why are you here?

 
 
 
 
Split Personality
5.1.25  Split Personality  replied to  Jack_TX @5.1.23    3 months ago

I always recommend not arguing with women about women's issues unless you are a woman.

Not arguing with African Americans, American Indians or Hispanic Americans unless you are one, especially about growing up poor and a white male.

Hell,  I'm an American of Irish descent married to an American of Mexican/American Indian descent and I know better to assume

that I can relate to any of the experiences of prejudice that they experienced growing up.

(although I was fired by my college Alma Mater as one of the women's' Softball team coaches because I was not a woman - longggg story    jrSmiley_1_smiley_image.png )

 
 
 
Split Personality
5.1.26  Split Personality  replied to  Split Personality @5.1.25    3 months ago

Everyone have a safe holiday weekend.

 
 
 
Jack_TX
5.1.27  Jack_TX  replied to  Split Personality @5.1.25    3 months ago
I always recommend not arguing with women about women's issues unless you are a woman.

The issue in question is actually racism.  It was specifically about her accusations about "so many" white people being archaically, astonishingly and horribly racist...which of course is rampantly racist in itself.

Not arguing with African Americans, American Indians or Hispanic Americans unless you are one, especially about growing up poor and a white male.

There are two kinds of racism.  Singling somebody out because they are a minority...and not singling them out because they are a minority.  I coached for far too long for skin color to matter.  

Hell,  I'm an American of Irish descent married to an American of Mexican/American Indian descent and I know better to assume that I can relate to any of the experiences of prejudice that they experienced growing up.

I don't ever presume I know what it's like to be black or female.  That would be really stupid.  Similarly, it's really stupid when people who've never spent a single day as a white male pretend to know how we think. Strangely enough....people stupid enough to make such presumptions never seem to give the group they're not part of the benefit of any doubt.  Hmmmm. 

(although I was fired by my college Alma Mater as one of the women's' Softball team coaches because I was not a woman - longggg story    )

Well coach....were they winning?  

 
 
 
lib50
5.1.28  lib50  replied to  Jack_TX @5.1.24    3 months ago

I have to disagree, they aren't even describing hippies.  That's the disconnect.  Most of the people my age weren't, and your links confirmed it.  

 
 
 
Paula Bartholomew
5.1.29  Paula Bartholomew  replied to  Bob Nelson @5.1.11    3 months ago

 Misogyny is OK.

Trump has turned it into an art.

 
 
 
†hε pε⊕pレε'š ƒïšh
6  †hε pε⊕pレε'š ƒïšh    3 months ago

I'd like to see super heroes on currency. Like Batman on a $5 bill and Robin on the nickel.

 
 
 
Freedom Warrior
6.1  Freedom Warrior  replied to  †hε pε⊕pレε'š ƒïšh @6    3 months ago

Robin on the nickel?   Holy blogosphere Batfish.

 
 
 
†hε pε⊕pレε'š ƒïšh
6.1.1  †hε pε⊕pレε'š ƒïšh  replied to  Freedom Warrior @6.1    3 months ago

Put some one famous and alive on the $100 bill, that way I can feel like I'm snorting cocaine off a topless dancer's navel with them.

 
 
 
Freedom Warrior
6.1.2  Freedom Warrior  replied to  †hε pε⊕pレε'š ƒïšh @6.1.1    3 months ago

That's right we are back to using paper.  No plastic straws in CA.

 
 
 
Paula Bartholomew
6.1.3  Paula Bartholomew  replied to  Freedom Warrior @6.1.2    3 months ago

Stir sticks are next.  

 
 
 
Jack_TX
6.2  Jack_TX  replied to  †hε pε⊕pレε'š ƒïšh @6    3 months ago
I'd like to see super heroes on currency.

I'd go with that....but real life superheroes.  

You can find a list here.

 
 
 
Paula Bartholomew
6.2.1  Paula Bartholomew  replied to  Jack_TX @6.2    3 months ago

We rarely agree, but you are so spot on with your idea.

 
 
 
Split Personality
7  Split Personality    3 months ago

Why Steve King thinks it's sexist and racist to put a black woman on US currency.

Old article, but related.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation-now/2016/06/22/failed-gop-proposal-would-have-kept-harriet-tubman-off-20-bill/86248718/

 
 
 
It Is ME
8  It Is ME    3 months ago

"The Harriet Tubman $20 bill was set for 2020. Now the Trump administration says it won't happen for years"

OMG.….I'm going to go kill myself right now ! jrSmiley_98_smiley_image.gif

The Susan B. Anthony coin was a waste, will this be any different ?

All People look at when they are gonna pay for something, is the denomination amount, not whose friggin face is on money. 

Most of the "Minority" in this country couldn't even tell you whom is on what Bill or coin. It's 'cause they don't give a hoot either.

 
 
 
Paula Bartholomew
8.1  Paula Bartholomew  replied to  It Is ME @8    3 months ago

When I was in Dubai for Desert Storm, the beauty of their bills was wonderful.  No picture, except for a falcon and each bill a different color.  It was explained to me that they use different colors so that those who can not read or write would know the denominations.

 
 
 
It Is ME
8.1.1  It Is ME  replied to  Paula Bartholomew @8.1    3 months ago

A Simple Green and White work for me.

Money comes, and money goes, and sometimes it goes too fast to worry about what it looks like.

 
 
 
Paula Bartholomew
8.1.2  Paula Bartholomew  replied to  It Is ME @8.1.1    3 months ago

I think color coding was a great idea.  At least those who have to use the colors to determine denomination won't get ripped off by merchants.

 
 
 
Raven Wing
8.1.3  Raven Wing  replied to  Paula Bartholomew @8.1.2    3 months ago
At least those who have to use the colors to determine denomination won't get ripped off by merchants.

Unless they are color blind. That would present a problem with the color coding for them. My Paternal Grandfather was color blind and he had some pretty unusual problems during his life. 

 
 
 
It Is ME
8.1.4  It Is ME  replied to  Paula Bartholomew @8.1.2    3 months ago
I think color coding was a great idea.  At least those who have to use the colors to determine denomination won't get ripped off by merchants.

Staying in school would be a much better idea !

 
 
 
Paula Bartholomew
8.1.5  Paula Bartholomew  replied to  Raven Wing @8.1.3    3 months ago

If a person is color blind they associate the color they do see with the denomination.  If they are blind, they use the same method for bills as other blind people do (ie....fold a bill in half or fold a corner.

 
 
 
Paula Bartholomew
8.1.6  Paula Bartholomew  replied to  It Is ME @8.1.4    3 months ago

If you read my original post, it was referring to the UAE.  SA is full of nomad peoples, whose children rarely learn to read and write unless it is at the tribal level and only the boys.  Conventional schools are not accessible.

 
 
 
MrFrost
8.1.7  MrFrost  replied to  Paula Bartholomew @8.1    3 months ago
When I was in Dubai for Desert Storm, the beauty of their bills was wonderful.

I was there at the same time and you are correct. Still have a few bills stuffed in a jar someplace, along with my 20 "dollar" dinar with Saddam's mug on it. Hard to believe that it has changed so much. 

 
 
 
Freefaller
8.1.8  Freefaller  replied to  Paula Bartholomew @8.1.5    3 months ago
If they are blind, they use the same method for bills as other blind people do (ie....fold a bill in half or fold a corner.

The Euro is an interesting combination different colours and different sizes (ie 5 euro bill is small, 50 euro bill is bigger).  Always thought that was a smart way to make the money.

 
 
 
epistte
8.2  epistte  replied to  It Is ME @8    3 months ago
The Susan B. Anthony coin was a waste, will this be any different ?

All People look at when they are gonna pay for something, is the denomination amount, not whose friggin face is on money. 

Most of the "Minority" in this country couldn't even tell you whom is on what Bill or coin. It's 'cause they don't give a hoot either.

Do you think that fewer people will use the $20 if it has Harriet Tubman's picture on it? 

 
 
 
Raven Wing
8.2.1  Raven Wing  replied to  epistte @8.2    3 months ago
Do you think that fewer people will use the $20 if it has Harriet Tubman's picture on it? 

The majority of intelligent people in this country don't give a whit whose face on the the $20.00 bill as long as the monetary value stays the same. Only the racially prejudice idiots will refrain from using the $20.00 bill if there is a Black persons' face on it.

 
 
 
Bob Nelson
8.2.2  Bob Nelson  replied to  Raven Wing @8.2.1    3 months ago
The majority of intelligent people...

Uh-oh....

That leaves a few million who wouldn't even touch a Tubman bill. Blackness or womanness might be infectious,after all.

 
 
 
Raven Wing
8.2.3  Raven Wing  replied to  Bob Nelson @8.2.2    3 months ago

Well....that could have a negative effect for those who believe that only Whites, male or female, have the right to be honored on our currency. So I suppose we will never see a Native American honored in such a way either.

 
 
 
Bob Nelson
8.2.4  Bob Nelson  replied to  Raven Wing @8.2.3    3 months ago
a Native American honored in such a way...

You know... that would be a such an easy, effective way to put a ton of ugly history definitively into the past.

So of course... ain't gonna happen...  jrSmiley_89_smiley_image.gif

 
 
 
Jack_TX
8.2.5  Jack_TX  replied to  Bob Nelson @8.2.4    3 months ago
You know... that would be a such an easy, effective way to put a ton of ugly history definitively into the past.

Because if we put Sitting Bull on the $10 bill that makes up for everything.  

Riiiiight.

 
 
 
Raven Wing
8.2.6  Raven Wing  replied to  Bob Nelson @8.2.4    3 months ago
So of course... ain't gonna happen..

True.

 
 
 
Raven Wing
8.2.7  Raven Wing  replied to  Jack_TX @8.2.5    3 months ago
Because if we put Sitting Bull on the $10 bill that makes up for everything.

And yet we put Andrew Jackson on the $20.00 bill and that makes up for everything he did with the Native American Removal, The Trail of Tears, and his Manifest Destiny, were actions that were A-OK and deserving of such an honor.

Riiiiiiight.

 
 
 
Mark in Wyoming
8.2.8  Mark in Wyoming  replied to  Raven Wing @8.2.3    3 months ago
I suppose we will never see a Native American honored in such a way either.

Sacagawea Dollar coin, still in circulation

 
 
 
pat wilson
8.2.9  pat wilson  replied to  Mark in Wyoming @8.2.8    3 months ago

I think they're worth $5 now. 

 
 
 
epistte
8.2.10  epistte  replied to  Mark in Wyoming @8.2.8    3 months ago

They are very rare to see. I have 3 of them and I gave 2 to my daughter.  I have 3-4 Susan B. Anythony's as well. 

 
 
 
Mark in Wyoming
8.2.11  Mark in Wyoming  replied to  pat wilson @8.2.9    3 months ago

original issue and protected , maybe , but they are still in circulation with a face value of only $1 , I see more of those and $2 bills of the oddball type stuff in my change, I think the susan b dollar didn't catch on because it was the same size as the quarter with the same ridge markings , it made people have to actually look at their coins. so with the Sac dollar they learned their lesson , its slightly larger and of a different color than other coins.

 
 
 
Raven Wing
8.2.12  Raven Wing  replied to  Mark in Wyoming @8.2.11    3 months ago

I forgot about the Sacagawea dollar coin. Thank you for the reminder. I guess I forgot about it as I never saw it but once, and that was some time ago. 

I stopped using the Susan B coins as I gave away too many of them as quarters. jrSmiley_78_smiley_image.gif

 
 
 
Mark in Wyoming
8.2.13  Mark in Wyoming  replied to  Raven Wing @8.2.12    3 months ago

Most people don't know it but for any coin or bill in circulation , the easiest place to get them is at your bank, they always have whats in circulation on hand . its there for the asking. now some might be harder to get like the susan B because I do not know anyone that wants them other than a novelty, for exactly the reason you stated look and feel like a quarter .

The way to make money on coins and bills , get proofs and uncirculated , once they are in circulation , their value is basically what it says on them , to gain value circulated coins and bills have to be around a long long time to become rare.

 
 
 
Mark in Wyoming
8.2.14  Mark in Wyoming  replied to  Mark in Wyoming @8.2.13    3 months ago

maybe i see Sacagawea dollar coins more around here is because I live only about 10 miles from her burial site .

 
 
 
pat wilson
8.2.15  pat wilson  replied to  Mark in Wyoming @8.2.13    3 months ago

Are you a numismatic ? I like that word.

 
 
 
Raven Wing
8.2.16  Raven Wing  replied to  Mark in Wyoming @8.2.13    3 months ago

Thanks for the info Mark. Next time I go to the bank I will ask for one of the Sacagawea coins. I'd like to have one just for the Native American aspect. 

 
 
 
Mark in Wyoming
8.2.17  Mark in Wyoming  replied to  pat wilson @8.2.15    3 months ago

My grandfathers got me started on wheatback pennies , I got as far back as 1919 before the collection "disappeared", I had even started going for different mint marks . Not really a collector unless I find something in my pocket change , for me the thrill is in the finding it and imagining the history or hands it passed through to get to me from that long ago time.

 
 
 
Mark in Wyoming
8.2.18  Mark in Wyoming  replied to  Raven Wing @8.2.16    3 months ago

most people don't know there is a way for blind people to tell what the denomination of their coins are.

it depends on the size and the type pf edge it has . a penny has a smooth edge and has a certain size just as any coin does . a nickle has a smooth edge and distinct size , a dime size and cut edge  quarter same cut edge ( that's where the SBAD ran into trouble same size and rough edge as a quarter.) , half dollars are size and rough edged , now dollar coins , its size and can have both types of edges smooth or rough , and of the 3 the 2 easiest to id without sight is the Eisenhower dollar (size rough edge ) and the SAC size little bigger than a quarter , not as big as a kennedy half, and has a smooth edge .

 
 
 
Raven Wing
8.2.19  Raven Wing  replied to  Mark in Wyoming @8.2.18    3 months ago

True as you point out. However, they were talking about the paper money, which was color coded. Unless there was a way the color blind could feel the paper and find a clue as to the color or amount of the paper money, they would not be able to identify what the color of the paper money was or what its amount was. 

But, if the paper money was produced in different sizes then it would be easier to identify what the amount of each size is. 

However, for those who are actually blind it could be a bit harder to identify the monetary value of each paper color. And what our currency here in the US has that may help the blind deal with the paper money does not apply to the country that is using the color coded currency. 

 
 
 
It Is ME
8.2.20  It Is ME  replied to  epistte @8.2    3 months ago
Do you think that fewer people will use the $20 if it has Harriet Tubman's picture on it? 

Folks just look at the 20 number. Kinda makes pictures "Useless" huh !

Will you be upset if her "Picture" isn't on the bill ?

 
 
 
epistte
8.2.21  epistte  replied to  It Is ME @8.2.20    3 months ago
Folks just look at the 20 number. Kinda makes pictures "Useless" huh !

I look at the artwork on the bills because I studied art.

Will you be upset if her "Picture" isn't on the bill ?

It is a slap in the face because she deserves the recognition, even if racists are offended at the idea of a black woman on our money. 

 
 
 
It Is ME
8.2.22  It Is ME  replied to  epistte @8.2.21    3 months ago
I look at the artwork on the bills because I studied art.

That's wonderful.

"It is a slap in the face because she deserves the recognition"

Why .... Because she's black ..... since your soooo into race that is ("even if racists are offended at the idea of a black woman on our money.")

Is that it ?

 
 
 
Thrawn 31
9  Thrawn 31    3 months ago

A black woman on our currency would upset the NAZI base.

 
 
 
Raven Wing
9.1  Raven Wing  replied to  Thrawn 31 @9    3 months ago

Let the buggers be upset. I don't cater to racists. Or those who champion ice cream cone hats and mess around with tiki lights like some circus clown wanna be's. 

 
 
 
dave-2693993
9.1.1  dave-2693993  replied to  Raven Wing @9.1    3 months ago
Let the buggers be upset. I don't cater to racists. Or those who champion ice cream cone hats and mess around with tiki lights like some circus clown wanna be's. 

Right. How stupid can they be?

 
 
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