New York state lawmakers introduce bill to decriminalize sex work

  
Via:  perrie-halpern  •  3 months ago  •  79 comments

New York state lawmakers introduce bill to decriminalize sex work
One state lawmaker said sex workers are "having to face stigma, discrimination and abuse in trying to advocate for their rights to be treated with dignity."

S E E D E D   C O N T E N T


By   Erik Ortiz


A group of Democratic lawmakers in New York state introduced a bill Monday that seeks to decriminalize sex work and make it legal to engage in the consensual sale of sex.

The   bill , which follows similar legislative efforts in other states, including Massachusetts and Maine, would go further by vacating prior convictions of people engaged in activity that would no longer be considered criminal. Supporters stressed that the legislation would not alter current laws on sex trafficking or the exploitation of minors.

At a news conference in New York, legislators and advocates with Decrim NY, the coalition pushing for the bill, said that legal attempts to crack down on sex work have historically failed and that an overburdened criminal justice system shouldn't be used to prosecute consenting adults.

In addition, advocates noted that current state laws disproportionately affect women of color and members of the trans community who are the most vulnerable and susceptible to violence and are regularly targeted by law enforcement.

Such people are "having to face stigma, discrimination and abuse in trying to advocate for their rights to be treated with dignity and to be treated like human beings," said state Sen. Julia Salazar, a sponsor of the bill, who represents Brooklyn, New York City.

In New York, prostitution is treated as a   misdemeanor   punishable by up to three months in jail and a fine of up to $500. Those found guilty of soliciting a prostitute could face prison and a fine as well.

New York's decriminalization bill — a version of which was also introduced in the state Assembly — is broad, and it's unclear what kind of support it will have among most Democrats and across party lines.

Nevada is the only U.S. state to allow some form of legal prostitution in certain counties through the operation of brothels.

TS Candii, a sex worker from the Bronx, New York City, said police have previously stopped her and she was   once threatened with jail even though she was simply leaving her apartment and not engaged in any criminal activity.

During the news conference, she lamented how she was discriminated against as a trans woman in traditional jobs, so turning to sex work felt like her best option to stay off the streets.

"Because of sex work, I have consistent money to provide for myself. Money to pay for gender-confirming health care, rent, food, my phone bill. It's a source of income where I'm not discriminated against," Candii said. "I don't have to worry about getting fired tomorrow because my boss hates trans people."

But Candii said she must still tread carefully because of her situation.

"On one hand, the trans community faces discrimination and violence at every turn," she added. "On the other hand, the state criminalizes and makes it unsafe, one of our best means of survival."


The newest bill, however, may not get to the heart of the problems within the illegal sex trade industry, some advocates say.

The group Sanctuary for Families, which advocates for survivors of sex trafficking and domestic violence, has said that decriminalization legislation doesn't go far enough, and would only legalize a system that would turn mostly women and girls into "commodities to be bought and sold."

"It's beyond comprehension why anyone would want to decriminalize an industry of abuse and violence which profits from the commodification of human beings," attorneys for the group   wrote last month . "We need a legislative model shown to reduce the commercial sex market, increase safety, provide services for survivors, and hold men accountable for the crimes they commit."

"The answer is not making it legal to pimp or buy sex," they added. "The answer is ensuring that we respect the full equality and dignity of every human."

Jessica Raven, a Decrim NY organizer and former sex worker, wrote in an   op-ed in the New York Daily News   on Monday that until safe housing and a living wage are made available to all, people who choose to sell sex to survive should be afforded laws that make their lives safer — not put them in danger.

"For us, this is a bodily autonomy issue — our bodies, our choice — but more than that, it's an economic issue," she wrote. "And it's personal."


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Perrie Halpern R.A.
1  seeder  Perrie Halpern R.A.    3 months ago

I'm not sure how to feel about this. It is the oldest trade. Ideas?

 
 
 
TᵢG
1.1  TᵢG  replied to  Perrie Halpern R.A. @1    3 months ago

Personally, I have never understood why a non-desperate man would seek a prostitute.   Maybe I am too logical, but I am not interested in someone who I know is faking it.   I prefer a real relationship.

However, I am not against prostitution, etc.   I am for ensuring it is conducted in a safe fashion but would never personally have anything to do with it.

 
 
 
WallyW
1.1.1  WallyW  replied to  TᵢG @1.1    3 months ago
 Maybe I am too logical, but I am not interested in someone who I know is faking it.   I prefer a real relationship.
It's not much fun if you know your sweetie is faking it.
Some of us have had enough "real" relationships to last a lifetime
I think it should be legalized, for a variety of reasons.
 
 
 
katrix
1.1.2  katrix  replied to  TᵢG @1.1    3 months ago

Well you know the saying - you're not paying for the sex, you're paying for the person to leave afterwards ;)

 
 
 
mocowgirl
1.1.3  mocowgirl  replied to  TᵢG @1.1    3 months ago
Personally, I have never understood why a non-desperate man would seek a prostitute. 

From what I've seen and from what men have told me, some "need" variety, some feel if they pay for it then they control it,  some want to screw something younger and/or prettier than they have at home and would never notice them otherwise,....etc., etc.

One guy, that I had a passing acquaintance with when I was 21, "offered" to introduce me to a madam he knew if I was interested in making a "lot" of money.  I laughed at him and asked if he was going to promote prostitution as a way of life for his daughter.  He exploded with anger and threatened to kill me if I ever mentioned him or his daughter in such a manner ever again.  He was just typical of the male hypocrites that I have encountered all of my life.  I like to picture these days discussing work with their prostitute daughters over Christmas dinner.  Women should never be treated as a commodity to be bought and sold - never.

One racist guy (while very drunk) told me that he had "bought" a n*gger prostitute once but would deny it to his dying day if I ever told anyone.   I think he was playing out his slave owner fantasy.  Evidently, reality did not live up to fantasy - which is common throughout life.  People are always going to be happy when they reach some milestone or acquisition that they have made the symbol of what happiness is.

When it comes to prostitution, there is no reason to allow some man's fantasy to become anyone's nightmare for any reason.

 
 
 
Ozzwald
1.2  Ozzwald  replied to  Perrie Halpern R.A. @1    3 months ago
I'm not sure how to feel about this. It is the oldest trade. Ideas?

I look at it in a more general way.  I am opposed to all victimless crimes.  If it doesn't hurt anyone, why is there a law against it?

 
 
 
Jack_TX
1.2.1  Jack_TX  replied to  Ozzwald @1.2    3 months ago
I am opposed to all victimless crimes.  If it doesn't hurt anyone, why is there a law against it?

There shouldn't be.  But it's tradition.  

 
 
 
Ozzwald
1.2.2  Ozzwald  replied to  Jack_TX @1.2.1    3 months ago
There shouldn't be.  But it's tradition. 

Most victimless crimes came about for the same reason...religion.

 
 
 
Jack_TX
1.2.3  Jack_TX  replied to  Ozzwald @1.2.2    3 months ago
Most victimless crimes came about for the same reason...religion.

Absolutely, but the religious rules surrounding sexuality are often attached to the economic protections of married women in agrarian societies.  Prohibitions on divorce, adultery, fornication, and homosexuality all have the very convenient side effect of keeping married men attached to and supporting their wives.

You'll notice even the primary opposition to legalization on this seed is coming from women.  

 
 
 
Ender
2  Ender    3 months ago

I never understood paying for it. If one can't get lucky after a drunken night at a bar....

In reality, all they would have to do is film it and it would be legal...

Actually I could care less. If a woman/man wants to sell their body, who is to say they can't.

 
 
 
pat wilson
3  pat wilson    3 months ago

I think the people involved have to pick their battles. If they choose actual legitimacy do they then need to accept regulation ?

 
 
 
TᵢG
3.1  TᵢG  replied to  pat wilson @3    3 months ago

For public health reasons, I think regulation is a necessity.

 
 
 
Ender
3.1.1  Ender  replied to  TᵢG @3.1    3 months ago

I always thought, better to be out in the open than some back alley.

IMO it would be safer all around. Just like any business, a place with a safe, good reputation would fare better than a dive.

 
 
 
zuksam
3.1.2  zuksam  replied to  TᵢG @3.1    3 months ago

What would those regulations be ? Most Prostitutes probably couldn't meet the standards that would be set. Most Prostitutes are drug addicts and most have Herpes and many have Hepatitis or HIV , certainly the regulations would bar them from legitimate Sex Employment. Sure we could just decriminalize it but do you really want a drug addicted prostitute walking up and down your block flogging her wares ?

 
 
 
TᵢG
3.1.3  TᵢG  replied to  zuksam @3.1.2    3 months ago

Your post confuses me.   You seem to saying that under legal prostitution there would be regulations that include drug addiction and disease.   But then you ask if under legal prostitution if we want a drug addicted prostitute out on the street?

My sense is that you are against legalized prostitution but I cannot decipher your logic.

 
 
 
WallyW
3.1.4  WallyW  replied to  zuksam @3.1.2    3 months ago
Most Prostitutes are drug addicts and most have Herpes and many have Hepatitis or HIV.....
And you know this how?

 
 
 
mocowgirl
3.1.5  mocowgirl  replied to  WallyW @3.1.4    3 months ago
And you know this how?

Some stats from a study conducted over a 30-year period on the adverse impact of prostitution on women's health.

Why would anyone, who cares about women, want to do this to women?  Is this the type of life that they want for their mother?  Their daughter?  If not, then they shouldn't be doing it to someone else's mother or daughter.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC450337/

Foremost among the health risks of prostitution is premature death. In a recent US study of almost 2000 prostitutes followed over a 30-year period, by far the most common causes of death were homicide, suicide, drug- and alcohol-related problems, HIV infection and accidents — in that order. The homicide rate among active female prostitutes was 17 times higher than that of the age-matched general female population. 2

 
 
 
evilgenius
3.1.6  evilgenius  replied to  mocowgirl @3.1.5    3 months ago
Some stats from a study conducted over a 30-year period on the adverse impact of prostitution on women's health.

So we should be decriminalizing it and then helping them get out, instead of keeping them in jails and under pimps.

 
 
 
Jack_TX
3.1.7  Jack_TX  replied to  mocowgirl @3.1.5    3 months ago
Some stats from a study conducted over a 30-year period on the adverse impact of prostitution on women's health.

Much of that is related to the fact that the work is illegal.  

Drug dealing is hard on your health, too.  Unless you're a pharmacist, in which case not so much.

 
 
 
WallyW
3.1.8  WallyW  replied to  mocowgirl @3.1.5    3 months ago

The numbers are much less where it's legal and regulated.

 
 
 
Tacos!
4  Tacos!    3 months ago

I've never been comfortable with the idea of criminalizing prostitution because at the level of an individual transaction, it seems like an extreme response to a victimless crime.

But we also need to recognize that there are a few undesirable consequences of prostitution. Even where legal, it promotes psychologically unhealthy sexual relations, human trafficking, disease, physical abuse of women, and it can destroy healthy familial relationships. 

This is what really happens when prostitution is decriminalised

 
 
 
evilgenius
4.1  evilgenius  replied to  Tacos! @4    3 months ago
...it promotes psychologically unhealthy sexual relations, human trafficking, disease, physical abuse of women, and it can destroy healthy familial relationships. 

I don't know about the unhealthy sexual relations. I can see arguments for either side there. Decriminalizing sex workers would remove trafficking and physical abuse as they are still illegal and reportable to law enforcement without fear the women themselves would be penalized. Regulations on health screening would limit disease.

Last, why would anyone in a healthy familial relationship go to a hooker? Wouldn't they be getting everything they need already at home? 

 
 
 
Ozzwald
4.1.1  Ozzwald  replied to  evilgenius @4.1    3 months ago
Last, why would anyone in a healthy familial relationship go to a hooker? Wouldn't they be getting everything they need already at home? 

You're not married are you?  jrSmiley_86_smiley_image.gif

Sorry, couldn't resist. 

Otherwise, as far as I am concerned, the spouse should be allowing or disallowing from a marriage perspective.  I would never visit one myself, but my wife has a friend, who for some reason or another, absolutely hates sex.  Yet, she got married because she wanted children.  Now that she has a daughter (3 years old) the husband has been completely cut off, but is unwilling to broach the "D" word because of his daughter.

Some spouses (not all, or even most, but some) would more than likely be willing to allow it if there were some assurances in regards to disease and outside pregnancy.  Who know, maybe it would even help lower rates of rape, incest, etc...

 
 
 
evilgenius
4.1.2  evilgenius  replied to  Ozzwald @4.1.1    3 months ago
You're not married are you?

I was married for 6 years. I have been cohabiting with the same wonderful woman for 19 years now.

I would never visit one myself...

My roommate talked me into it when I was 19 in the Army in Germany. It was very, very... meh.

...my wife has a friend, who for some reason or another, absolutely hates sex.  Yet, she got married because she wanted children.  Now that she has a daughter (3 years old) the husband has been completely cut off, but is unwilling to broach the "D" word because of his daughter.

Unfortunately situations like these happen all too often. It was why Craigslist was so popular. Interesting fact... Women enrollment on the cheater's dating website ashleymadison spikes the day after Mother's Day every year.

 
 
 
luther28
5  luther28    3 months ago

Though I myself do not subscribe, I see no reason not to and many reasons why (medical regulation etc.).

But as an aside I must say I am rather bemused by our lawmakers of late. For years we were told the things that were considered kryptonite ( ie. weed, prostitution etc.) would unleash terrible horrors upon the earth. They are now looking at these same horrors as an unlimited source of tax revenues, strange the way that money will sway principles, hmmmmmmm.

 
 
 
Trout Giggles
5.1  Trout Giggles  replied to  luther28 @5    3 months ago

It's a younger generation, too. The younger people would like to keep more of their income from their paychecks so why not legalize cannabis and sex work so we can reduce payroll taxes?

Who says the younger generation is dumb?

 
 
 
Goodtime Charlie
5.1.1  Goodtime Charlie  replied to  Trout Giggles @5.1    3 months ago
The younger people would like to keep more of their income from their paychecks so why not legalize cannabis and sex work so we can reduce payroll taxes?

Legalizing cannabis and prostitution wouldn't reduce payroll taxes, it would just give politicians more money to waste. The more money the government takes in the more they spend and still continue to raise taxes. The American taxpayer is nothing more to them than their own personal piggy bank.  

 
 
 
Texan1211
5.1.2  Texan1211  replied to  Goodtime Charlie @5.1.1    3 months ago

Amen.

I have yet to see a politician who didn't mind spending every penny and more of what they collect.

 
 
 
r.t..b...
6  r.t..b...    3 months ago

Not to condone nor condemn, but it is capitalism at its' most pure. Supply meets demand with a price set that is acceptable to both parties. Its existence is a reality that will never be legislated away, so enact regulations to at least try to provide some level of protection to the provider and the client, and some of the obvious risks may be mitigated. And not to be flip, but the tax revenue stream sure to follow regulation would be larger than anyone would have imagined. [edit...sorry Luther, did not intend to copy the tax revenue side of this, your post came while I was sipping coffee and composing thoughts]

 
 
 
It Is ME
7  It Is ME    3 months ago

Not a good idea.

Government can't even regulate Guns Correctly....let alone "Sexual Disease" or "Women Trafficking" (which is way more complicated than guns) !

 
 
 
mocowgirl
7.1  mocowgirl  replied to  It Is ME @7    3 months ago
Not a good idea. Government can't even regulate Guns Correctly....let alone "Sexual Disease" or "Women Trafficking" (which is way more complicated than guns) !

I totally agree.

I wonder if most people would support all of the regulations necessary to ensure that women are not being trafficked, coerced, and physically and/or mentally abused on any level?

There would have to be minimum age requirements.  Prostitutes should be required to be at least 21 years of age and required to undergo a mental evaluation to make sure that they are mentally competent.  I believe that in the interest of understanding the effects that prostitution has on the mind and body that there should be further evaluations every 6 months for at least 5 years.  These evaluations  would be a societal benefit in understanding how much abuse that some men are willing to inflict on others in order to satisfy their lusts, fetishes, and anger.  Because of the societal benefit, the evaluations should be paid for by the federal government and the finding published every year.  

There should also be 6 month medical exams (including drug testing) paid for by the federal government.  The findings should also be published on a yearly basis.  Prostitutes using illegal drugs should be subject to the laws of the state and lose their license to prostitute until they have successfully completed rehab.  If the prostitute requires drugs to deal with being a prostitute, then they should not be licensed to be a prostitute.

Prostitutes should be required to be citizens of the United States.  Importing women for the sex trade should never be allowed.  That is human trafficking.

Prostitutes should always have the right to refuse their services to anyone without explanation.   Otherwise, the government is legalizing rape.

I've known military guys who have used prostitutes in the Philippines, Vietnam and South Korea.  In 1982, my neighbor, at Kaneohe Marine Corps Air Station, babysat my daughters for extra income to support her 3 sons while her husband was buying a prostitute on a monthly basis while on temporary duty in South Korea.  I know this because he was deployed with my husband.  I didn't tell my neighbor, but someone else did.  The next time her husband was deployed she found herself a willing Marine to warm her bed until her husband returned.  This seemed fairly common in the 70s/80s when my husband was in the Marine Corps.

Before we legalize prostitution inside the US, I believe it would be beneficial to understand how the US males in the military use prostitutes in other countries and the problems that ensue for the women.

 
 
 
mocowgirl
7.1.1  mocowgirl  replied to  mocowgirl @7.1    3 months ago
Before we legalize prostitution inside the US, I believe it would be beneficial to understand how the US males in the military use prostitutes in other countries and the problems that ensue for the women.

Some background on the US military men and prostitution.  I will cite a small part of a fairly good article.  I wonder how many people really know how much the men in the US government have forced other countries to supply our troops with prostitutes?  Could this be linked to the demand for legalized prostitution in the US today?

Is this really how we want women treated in the United States?

https://www.salon.com/2017/10/08/womens-labor-sex-work-and-u-s-military-bases-abroad/

There was indeed considerable competition for GI dollars in Okinawa, South Vietnam, Thailand, and the Philippines. In Okinawa, prostitution was legal through the end of the U.S. occupation in 1972. Within three months of the start of the Korean War, Okinawan authorities created the Yaejima Approved Prostitution Zone, and by 1969, 7,400 women—about 2 percent of all Okinawan females between ten and sixty years old—were involved in prostitution around the bases. Meanwhile, the U.S. war in Vietnam helped transform Thailand’s Pattaya Beach into one of the world’s largest red-light districts. It was a favored spot for R&R, or, as some called it, I&I—intoxication and intercourse. When the military withdrew from South Vietnam, it left behind an estimated 700,000 sex workers.

“Prostitution was obviously a racket,” a U.S. official at the embassy in Seoul told me, describing the time when he’d been stationed in Korea in the early 1980s. “It kind of had a dirty feel to it.” And “even the married guys” were taking part. (Unlike in Japan, Germany, Italy, and many other base locations, 90 percent of troops on tours of duty in Korea have, until recently, been unaccompanied by families because the Korean War has technically never ended.) “It was kind of a bonding thing to go out and bar hop. You’d go from bar to bar to bar.”

“The women were readily available,” the official told me. And they wouldn’t ask you to buy them a drink—they asked you to take them home. “There was kind of a joke” where guys “would take out a $20 bill and lick it and stick it to their forehead.” They said that’s all it took to get a girl.

Today, many of the women who once worked in the system still live in the camptowns, so strong is the stigma attached to them. One of the sex workers, who would identify herself to a reporter only as “Jeon,” moved to a camptown in 1956 as an eighteen-year-old war orphan. Within a few years she became pregnant, but she gave up her son for adoption in the United States, where she hoped he would have a better life. In 2008, now a U.S. soldier, he returned to find her. Jeon was surviving on public assistance and selling things from the trash. She refused his help and said he should forget about her. “I failed as a mother,” Jeon says. “I have no right to depend on him now.”

“Women like me were the biggest sacrifice for my country’s alliance with the Americans,” she says. “Looking back, I think my body was not mine, but the government’s and the U.S. military’s.”

Since the mid-1990s, the dramatic growth in the South Korean economy has largely allowed Korean women to escape the exploitative conditions of the camptown bars and clubs. In their place, Filipinas and, to a lesser extent, women from Russia and former Soviet republics have generally replaced Korean women as the primary camptown sex workers. The South Korean government’s creation of the E-6 “entertainer” visa has allowed Korean “promoters” to import Filipinas and other women on a legal basis. The E-6 visa is the only Korean visa for which an HIV test is mandatory; venereal disease tests are required every three months. Over 90 percent of women with the visas are estimated to work in the sex industry.

The promoters who recruit women often promise to find them work as singers or dancers—applicants must submit videos demonstrating singing ability. The agents then bring the women into South Korea, charging them a fee that the women must pay off by working in camptowns and other bars and clubs.

The women sign a contract in their home country specifying an employer and a salary, but they often end up in different clubs and working for a lower salary than promised. The promoters and owners often charge hidden fees or deduct money from the women’s salaries, keeping them in perpetual debt. Often the housing and food promised in contracts is little more than a decrepit shared room above the bar and ramen noodles. In some clubs, owners force women to perform sex work in “VIP rooms” or other locations. In other clubs, indebtedness and psychological coercion force the women into sex. Speaking little Korean, the women have little recourse. Promoters and bar owners often hold the women’s passports. Leaving their place of employment would subject them to immediate arrest, fines, imprisonment, or deportation by the South Korean state and potentially violent retribution from those to whom they are indebted.

In 2002, a Cleveland television station exposed how military police officers were protecting the bars and the GIs in them, and interacting with women they knew had been trafficked and sold at auction. “You know something is wrong when the girls are asking you to buy them bread,” one soldier said. “They can’t leave the clubs. They barely feed them.” Another commented, “There are only Americans in these clubs. If they’re bringing these women over here to work for us, they should get paid a fair wage. They should have the right to a day off.” (Most of the women get one day off a month.) In a 2002 report, the State Department confirmed that South Korea was a destination for trafficked women. And in 2007, three researchers concluded that U.S. bases in South ­Korea have become “a hub for the transnational trafficking of women from the Asia Pacific and Eurasia to South Korea and the United States.”
 
 
 
It Is ME
7.1.2  It Is ME  replied to  mocowgirl @7.1    3 months ago

Folks just WANT....and then just go about their business as if nothing happened.

But LATER comes.....and it becomes ….. WTF ….. by those that initially "Wanted".

NOW they'll want another Private  "Raise-in-pay" to pay for what they used to want, that they forgot they wanted in the first place. jrSmiley_98_smiley_image.gif

 
 
 
evilgenius
7.1.3  evilgenius  replied to  mocowgirl @7.1    3 months ago
I wonder if most people would support all of the regulations necessary to ensure that women are not being trafficked, coerced, and physically and/or mentally abused on any level?

Wouldn't decriminalization and regulation at any level make things better? Or should be simply continue to ignore what we are doing isn't more than a band-aide on a geyser?

...and required to undergo a mental evaluation to make sure that they are mentally competent.

If they are mentally competently enough to live on their own as an otherwise fully functioning adult then they should make their own career decisions.

 I believe that in the interest of understanding the effects that prostitution has on the mind and body that there should be further evaluations every 6 months for at least 5 years.  These evaluations  would be a societal benefit in understanding how much abuse that some men are willing to inflict on others in order to satisfy their lusts, fetishes, and anger.  Because of the societal benefit, the evaluations should be paid for by the federal government and the finding published every year.  

A study would probably be a great idea, but why do you think women would have to put with abuse were it decriminalized? Wouldn't assault still be illegal? There are fetish and S&M clubs that cater to those people in controlled environments. 

There should also be 6 month medical exams (including drug testing) paid for by the federal government.

Why should there be mandatory drug testing? I see no reason to presume one has to be a druggie without evidence. 

If the prostitute requires drugs to deal with being a prostitute, then they should not be licensed to be a prostitute.

Again you equate drug use to being a prostitute without logical reason. I would be fully happy to support any system that would address the physical, dental and mental health needs of all people. Including rehab & education - which is why I support decriminalizing prostitution and drugs. These should be Health & Human Services issues not Law Enforcement issues.

Before we legalize prostitution inside the US, I believe it would be beneficial to understand how the US males in the military use prostitutes in other countries and the problems that ensue for the women.

This is irrelevant. 

 
 
 
mocowgirl
7.1.4  mocowgirl  replied to  evilgenius @7.1.3    3 months ago
This is irrelevant. 

I believe that we need to talk to women who have sold their bodies to better understand this issue.

The men, who are pushing to legalize using women's bodies, are not in the least fucking interested in the mental and physical well-being of women.  

Men, who care about women, don't try to use them as just another mindless, unfeeling commodity to be bought and sold like a barrel of oil.

 
 
 
Texan1211
7.1.5  Texan1211  replied to  mocowgirl @7.1.4    3 months ago

Wouldn't it really be a matter of a woman's (or man's) choice?

 
 
 
evilgenius
7.1.6  evilgenius  replied to  mocowgirl @7.1.4    3 months ago
The men, who are pushing to legalize using women's bodies...

I think you might be surprised at the number of female sex workers themselves that are pushing to legalize.

 
 
 
mocowgirl
7.1.7  mocowgirl  replied to  evilgenius @7.1.6    3 months ago
I think you might be surprised at the number of female sex workers themselves that are pushing to legalize.

I probably would be surprised.  I would certainly want to know their background and how they became prostitutes versus choosing another occupation and what their future life goals are.

However, no one should be surprised to hear what former sex workers have to say about prostitution.

https://nypost.com/2019/06/02/former-sex-worker-dont-legalize-prostitution-in-new-york/

A former sex-trade survivor who says she was victimized everywhere from New York City strip clubs to Nevada’s legal brothels is now at the forefront of the national battle against legalization, telling The Post that it only encourages “horrific’’ trafficking.

“A lot of people are under the misconception that just because it’s legal [in Nevada], then it’s safe and it’s clean and that all the people there are consenting, and that’s just not the truth,” said Rebekah Charleston, who appears in a   blistering new anti-trafficking video   put out by opponents of legalization.

“I think a lot of people have this happy hooker mindset like, ‘Oh well, she looks happy, and she’s an adult, so she should be able to do what she wants,’ when that’s just not reality. The realities of prostitution and sex trafficking are horrific.”

Charleston, 37, is part of a new campaign launched by a coalition of advocacy groups that includes the video, which was unveiled at the World Without Exploitation conference in Washington, DC, on May 23.

But Charleston, who was often sent by her pimp to city strip clubs to find johns, said Nevada shouldn’t serve as a national blueprint.

“Forty-eight years ago, prostitution was legalized in Nevada. It was a social experiment. That experiment has failed,” Charleston says in the video.

Nevada has a 63 percent higher rate of illegal sex-trade activity than any other state in the country and ranks in the top 10 for trafficked and exploited youth, according to the video, which adds that only 10 percent of prostitution in Nevada is legal.

Nevada also is ranked sixth in the country for rapes and sexual assaults against women, according to Awaken, an anti-sex trafficking non-profit based in Reno.

Charleston, originally from Dallas, Texas, said she was raped when she was 14 years old, became addicted to drugs and ran away from home at the age of 17, when she met a pimp that would sell her across the US for the next 10 years.

One time, when she tried to escape, he held a pitchfork to her neck and said he would kill her, she said.

“When somebody beats you to where you have blood pouring out of your face, you believe them when they say they’ll kill you,” explained Charleston, who now runs her own non-profit Valiant Hearts.

She said her trafficker sent her to the Love Ranch North and the Moonlite Bunny Ranch brothels, owned by the late Dennis Hof, “as a form of punishment” when she wasn’t making enough money or gave him other trouble.

At the legal brothels, Charleston said, the conditions were deplorable.

“It’s a miserable daily existence, so drug use is rampant inside the brothel. … We would just sit around and get high [on meth] all day,” recalled Charleston, who said she no longer uses drugs.

She was also expected to be on call 24 hours a day and forced to sleep in the same room she serviced customers in, a practice she called “disgusting” and a “human-rights violation.”

Anytime she tried to leave the brothel, the house manager would try to prevent her from going, while other girls in the house “just never left.”

Melissa Holland, co-founder and executive director of Awaken, said Nevada’s quest to legalize prostitution was done in part to make selling sex safer for the workers and the buyers.

Instead, it’s only made the illegal market proliferate in the last half a century and has changed the state’s culture, she said.

“We know from research when you legalize prostitution … you increase the demand for it. … So when the demand goes up, you have to increase the supply, and that’s in trafficking women and children,” Holland explained.

She said sexual exploitation is so normalized in Nevada, brothel workers are invited to schools for career day.

“That’s what happens when it’s framed like a job like any other,” Holland said.

“These are the real implications and how it bleeds into your culture.”
 
 
 
charger 383
8  charger 383    3 months ago

Progress is coming

 
 
 
mocowgirl
9  mocowgirl    3 months ago

Why would any conservative male who is anti-choice support prostitution?  Are they going to insist that johns take DNA tests and support the offspring of prostitutes when birth control fails?  

Why would any Christian, who believes that sex outside of marriage is sinful, support prostitution?

Where are all of the Republican reps denouncing prostitution in the same manner that they do abortion?  

 
 
 
Greg Jones
9.1  Greg Jones  replied to  mocowgirl @9    3 months ago

Republicans come in all shapes, sizes, and stripes. Many do not have a problem with early abortions, or what adults, with mutual consent, do with their own bodies.

 
 
 
mocowgirl
9.1.1  mocowgirl  replied to  Greg Jones @9.1    3 months ago
Many do not have a problem with early abortions, or what adults, with mutual consent, do with their own bodies.

So they are not Christians or socially conservative?

On what basis do they identify as a Republican????? 

 
 
 
Texan1211
9.1.2  Texan1211  replied to  mocowgirl @9.1.1    3 months ago
So they are not Christians or socially conservative?
On what basis do they identify as a Republican?????

Contrary to some opinions, Republicans are not just old white men, not all Republicans are Christians, not all Republicans are religious, and not all are conservative.

Just like not all Democrats are progressive liberals.

 
 
 
Jack_TX
9.1.3  Jack_TX  replied to  mocowgirl @9.1.1    3 months ago
So they are not Christians or socially conservative? On what basis do they identify as a Republican????? 

Seriously??

 
 
 
†hε pε⊕pレε'š ƒïšh
10  †hε pε⊕pレε'š ƒïšh    3 months ago

Once this happens I'll be opening a brothel in NYC. I am now accepting applications for a brothel manager if anyone is interested?

 
 
 
evilgenius
10.1  evilgenius  replied to  †hε pε⊕pレε'š ƒïšh @10    3 months ago
I am now accepting applications for a brothel manager if anyone is interested?

What's the pay and benefits package? 

 
 
 
†hε pε⊕pレε'š ƒïšh
10.1.1  †hε pε⊕pレε'š ƒïšh  replied to  evilgenius @10.1    3 months ago

$200,000 a year plus benefits

I need you to run it by hand though until I hire some girls.

jrSmiley_10_smiley_image.gif

 
 
 
katrix
10.2  katrix  replied to  †hε pε⊕pレε'š ƒïšh @10    3 months ago

You'll have to buy furry seat covers for your car seats.

 
 
 
†hε pε⊕pレε'š ƒïšh
10.2.1  †hε pε⊕pレε'š ƒïšh  replied to  katrix @10.2    3 months ago

I've been doing wrist exercises too to strengthen my pimp hand.

 
 
 
Texan1211
11  Texan1211    3 months ago

I agree--make prostitution legal.

It is a man's and a woman's choice to engage in it or not.

You can regulate it the same way Nevada brothels are regulated.

 
 
 
Trout Giggles
12  Trout Giggles    3 months ago

At least stop giving them 90 days in jail and a huge fine

 
 
 
mocowgirl
12.1  mocowgirl  replied to  Trout Giggles @12    3 months ago

It is the customers who should be jailed.  

The majority of the prostitutes were most likely forced into sex work because of poverty and lack of education to have better choices.

We need to help women to have better choices instead of sell their bodies to the highest bidder like they were slaves on the auction block.

Prostitution is not a sustainable career choice.   There is little money, no benefits or retirement.  Once the youth and body is gone, how is the woman going to survive with no "assets" to sell and few, to no, marketable skills?

https://citylimits.org/2019/05/31/prostitution-new-york-legal/

A staggering percentage of survivors grapple with post-traumatic stress disorder, anxiety, depression, suicidal ideation and dissociation, having had to detach from their bodies just to stay alive like the teenager traumatized when her pimp burned a mouse alive as a warning if she tried to leave; or sex-trafficked women consenting to their exploitation out of fear for their lives; the undocumented immigrants working in massage parlors thrown out on the streets when they refuse buyers; and women who try to exit the sex trade fall victim to further exploitation because they have no marketable skills, education, or sense of self-worth.

Sex buyers don’t care whether the women or children they purchase are trafficked or abused or underage. They want sexual gratification and the power to exert control.

Fortunately, society is finally starting to turn against men who exploit their positions of power. Yet, inexplicably, some policy makers now want to legalize such a system of exploitation. Decriminalizing the sex industry would declare that women and girls, the LGBTQ community, people living in poverty, and people of color, are commodities to be bought and sold.

It’s beyond comprehension why anyone would want to decriminalize an industry of abuse and violence which profits from the commodification of human beings.

We need a legislative model shown to reduce the commercial sex market, increase safety, provide services for survivors, and hold men accountable for the crimes they commit. Such a legal framework, initiated by Sweden in 1999 is now in place in Iceland, Norway, Northern Ireland, Canada, France, and Israel. It solely decriminalizes individuals who are bought and sold, while targeting sex buyers. Survivors are provided with exit strategies and services, housing and medical treatment.

Let’s see prostitution for what it is—gender-based violence. It’s time to listen to survivors and demand an end to sexual violence.

The answer is not making it legal to pimp or buy sex. The answer is ensuring that we respect the full equality and dignity of every human.

Alexi Ashe Meyers and Rebecca Zipkin are Attorneys at Sanctuary for Families in New York City and former prosecutors in Brooklyn prosecuting cases of Sex Trafficking and Sex Crimes. Meyers co-chairs the New York State Anti-Trafficking Coalition.
 
 
 
Ender
12.1.1  Ender  replied to  mocowgirl @12.1    3 months ago
We need to help women

One thing people seem to push aside, there are men prostitutes as well.

 
 
 
Texan1211
12.1.2  Texan1211  replied to  mocowgirl @12.1    3 months ago

Why not allow those women their choice?

 
 
 
r.t..b...
12.1.3  r.t..b...  replied to  Texan1211 @12.1.2    3 months ago
Why not allow those women their choice?

Agreed. When legitimized, they have the legal choice to provide for themselves as they choose. Many may not make the same choice due to any number of circumstances, but ultimately it is upon the individual to make the decision...as it should be across the board as long as it does not impede on someone else's ability to do the same. 

 
 
 
mocowgirl
12.1.4  mocowgirl  replied to  Ender @12.1.1    3 months ago
One thing people seem to push aside, there are men prostitutes as well.

Yes.  Men and boys are sexually exploited in the US.  One guy in New York make 10 million dollars sexually exploiting men and boys.  I wonder how much the male prostitutes made?  

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/how-the-rentboy-case-highlights-the-myth-of-the-good_b_59aeb492e4b0d0c16bb527ac

The facilitation of prostitution and sex trafficking on his website earned Mr. Hurant more than $10 million since 1997. Yet, despite profiting immensely from sexual exploitation for the better part of two decades, Mr. Hurant was sentenced to a mere six months in prison—less than half of the government recommended maximum term!

The Sexploitation Double Standard

The Rentboy and Backpage websites provide useful illustrations of another important issue—the normalization of the sexual exploitation of boys and men.

Backpage is routinely in the headlines and has earned national opprobrium from anti-sex trafficking activists, law enforcement officials, and elected leaders for its indisputable role in facilitating the sexual exploitation of girls and young women. Undoubtedly boys and men are also sexually trafficked via the website, but the national spotlight on sex trafficking is so keenly focused on females that the potential sexual exploitation and trafficking of males and transgendered persons on Backpage is completely overlooked.

The failure to recognize sexual exploitation of boys and men doesn’t stop there. Ironically, the prosecutors who brought charges against Rentboy were criticized by New York congressmen Jerrold Nadler and Sean Patrick Maloney for wasting government time and resources on a victimless crime. But if Rentboy had been operating under the name Rentgirl, would Nadler and Maloney have dared to make such an argument? Are we to believe that law enforcement efforts to fight sexual exploitation are only an appropriate use of government resources when the victims are females primarily serving heterosexual males?

Mr. Hurant’s defense touted during the trial was that Rentboy.com was beneficial to the gay community. Though Mr. Hurant will tell you his intentions were always to serve, protect, and provide the gay community with “an image of pride and positivity,” remember that he knowingly exploited them for a personal gain of $10 million.

Importantly, payment for sex is a form of sexual coercion whether those being sold serve hetero, homo, or transsexual buyers. Male prostitution is simply male sexual exploitation, and male victims of sexual exploitation are often homeless,[1] suffer from mental illness, and/or are victims of sexual abuse.[2] The idea that selling them online benefits them was a twisted lie Hurant used to put a gloss of altruism on raw sexual exploitation to convince a gullible judge to lighten his sentence.

Bringing the Sexual Abuse and Exploitation of Boys and Men Out of the Shadows

At the National Center on Sexual Exploitation (NCOSE) we believe it’s time to bring the issue of sexual abuse and exploitation of boys and men out of the shadows. That’s why we are working with leaders like Tom Jones of the H.O.P.E. Project, himself a survivor of sexual exploitation, who works with other men who have suffered sexual exploitation. Recently, Tom spoke out about his experiences at Creating a World without Sexual Exploitation: How Consumer Demand Drives the Commercial Sex Trade and What We Can Do About It , an event sponsored by World Without Exploitation and National Center on Sexual Exploitation. Be sure to watch Tom’s video .

Additionally, this week the National Center on Sexual Exploitation, together with the U.S. Institute Against Human Trafficking and Washington College, is hosting the upcoming symposium, Out of the Shadows: Addressing the Sexual Exploitation of Boys and Men . The symposium will take place on September 8th in Washington, D.C., and will bring together various experts from across the country to educate the public and form collaborations to create real solutions to prevent sexual exploitation of boys and men.
 
 
 
MrFrost
13  MrFrost    3 months ago

If it's regulated, does that mean they would get dental plans?

The county I live in is full of $5.00 meth ho's with no teeth, (which they see as an occupational upgrade). 

 
 
 
Dismayed Patriot
13.1  Dismayed Patriot  replied to  MrFrost @13    3 months ago
If it's regulated, does that mean they would get dental plans?

The answer is, yes. Look at Nevada. There are many establishments that offer full benefits, worker compensation insurance (you can throw out your back you know...especially when you're doing it right...) health insurance and regular exams and STD testing.

If we're honest about it, the real issue with prostitution is the exploitation and surrounding crimes to it because it's illegal. No State is going to be able to completely eliminate sex trafficking. But by decriminalizing the prostitute the women who make that choice wouldn't have to rely on criminals for their income and can choose to be a sex worker in a relatively clean, regulated, insured manner, and the "Johns" in that State don't have to rely on criminals to get some illicit sex on the side.

By decriminalizing it, I believe it would also reduce the threat of criminals on the internet recruiting young teens with promises of money, freedom and drugs but turning them into sex slaves kept drugged up in some basement in Florida. It's supply and demand. There will always be a demand for some unfortunate incel's or sex addicts who need to pay for sex. Making a clean, legal option eliminates the need for them to go to criminals who might be telling you she's 18, clean and here of her own volition but she might really be 16, high on X and alcohol and been used by two dozen filthy untested Johns in the last week.

Personally, I think the idea of anyone selling their bodies for sex is frankly revolting. I think it's disgusting. But it's not my body and if someone wants to risk their lives being a crab fisherman for money or risk their health having frequent sex with random partners for money, that's not my business. And the reality is, sex trafficking people against their will is far, far worse than a person making the choice to become a sex worker. So while I would never encourage a person to get an abortion, sell their bodies for sex, or work in some fast food restaurants, I recognize each individuals right to make that choice for themselves.

https://www.democratandchronicle.com/story/news/2018/02/02/human-sex-trafficking-close-next-door-rochester-stephen-jones-backpage-child-teenagers-victims/1061834001/

https://www.oxygen.com/crime-time/agaming-app-discord-allegedly-used-to-lure-teen-boys-into-human-trafficking-florida

 
 
 
MrFrost
13.1.1  MrFrost  replied to  Dismayed Patriot @13.1    3 months ago
Personally, I think the idea of anyone selling their bodies for sex is frankly revolting. I think it's disgusting. But it's not my body and if someone wants to risk their lives being a crab fisherman for money or risk their health having frequent sex with random partners for money, that's not my business.

I am in 100% agreement. Who am I to impose my personal beliefs or morals on someone else? Live and let live, but, regulation to at least some degree would be preferable. 

 
 
 
Jack_TX
13.1.2  Jack_TX  replied to  Dismayed Patriot @13.1    3 months ago
If we're honest about it, the real issue with prostitution is the exploitation and surrounding crimes to it because it's illegal.

This.

I sorta feel like this is so obvious that we shouldn't have to explain it, but apparently we do. 

 
 
 
The Magic Eight Ball
14  The Magic Eight Ball    3 months ago
A group of Democratic lawmakers in New York state introduced a bill Monday that seeks to decriminalize sex work and make it legal to engage in the consensual sale of sex.

the resulting late night, "learn a trade" commercials on TV will be hilarious... seriously... LOL

 
 
 
livefreeordie
15  livefreeordie    3 months ago

The government should not be legislating or controlling private behavior.

as a Christian Minarchist I support keeping government out of prostitution, drug use, pornography, and marriage and divorce.

 
 
 
pat wilson
15.1  pat wilson  replied to  livefreeordie @15    3 months ago
I support keeping government out of prostitution, drug use, pornography, and marriage and divorce.

And women's reproductive decisions, right ?

 
 
 
MrFrost
15.1.1  MrFrost  replied to  pat wilson @15.1    3 months ago
And women's reproductive decisions, right ?

Well now you've done it. Larry hates government control of ANYTHING, except a uterus. Then? 100% control is acceptable. 

 
 
 
livefreeordie
15.1.2  livefreeordie  replied to  pat wilson @15.1    3 months ago

Yes. I don’t oppose birth control or preventing Women and or men from purchasing birth control 

i do oppose government mandating taxpayer paid birth control or insurance companies being forced to cover it.

but I’m sure you are trying to indirectly refer to abortion. Abortion is unconnected to reproductive decisions.  That moment has come and gone when conception occurs.   You want the mother to have the right to murder her unborn child which is entirely separate 

 
 
 
livefreeordie
15.1.3  livefreeordie  replied to  MrFrost @15.1.1    3 months ago

Nonsense.see 15.1.2

 
 
 
pat wilson
15.1.4  pat wilson  replied to  livefreeordie @15.1.2    3 months ago
Abortion is unconnected to reproductive decisions.

Don't be ridiculous, that's absurd.

You want the mother to have the right to murder her unborn child which is entirely separate 

Again, ridiculous.

The government should not be legislating or controlling private behavior.

You can't have it both ways. A woman and her doctor's decisions are theirs alone, no one else's business. 

 
 
 
livefreeordie
15.1.5  livefreeordie  replied to  pat wilson @15.1.4    3 months ago

science says you’re wrong.   Abortion doesn’t prevent conception. It is an act of murder by the mother.

 
 
 
pat wilson
15.1.6  pat wilson  replied to  livefreeordie @15.1.5    3 months ago
science says you’re wrong.   Abortion doesn’t prevent conception.

Where did I say otherwise ? Abortion certainly is a reproductive decision.

It is an act of murder by the mother.

Emotional falsehood.

 
 
 
TᵢG
15.1.7  TᵢG  replied to  livefreeordie @15.1.2    3 months ago
Abortion is unconnected to reproductive decisions.

Is rape a reproductive decision?

I am just interested to see if you seriously are focused on reproductive decision and not just that once a woman is pregnant she should have no choice but to carry to term.

 
 
 
Sister Mary Agnes Ample Bottom
15.1.9  Sister Mary Agnes Ample Bottom  replied to  livefreeordie @15.1.2    3 months ago
Abortion is unconnected to reproductive decisions.

Um...  

 
 
 
Gordy327
15.1.10  Gordy327  replied to  livefreeordie @15.1.2    3 months ago
Abortion is unconnected to reproductive decisions.  That moment has come and gone when conception occurs.   You want the mother to have the right to murder her unborn child which is entirely separate 

Demonstrably false!

Nonsense.see 15.1.2

Yes, 15.1.2 is nonsense!

 
 
 
Sister Mary Agnes Ample Bottom
15.2  Sister Mary Agnes Ample Bottom  replied to  livefreeordie @15    3 months ago

[deleted]

 
 
 
Raven Wing
15.2.1  Raven Wing  replied to  Sister Mary Agnes Ample Bottom @15.2    3 months ago

deleted for context

 
 
 
Sister Mary Agnes Ample Bottom
15.2.2  Sister Mary Agnes Ample Bottom  replied to  Sister Mary Agnes Ample Bottom @15.2    3 months ago

[deleted]

 
 
 
†hε pε⊕pレε'š ƒïšh
16  †hε pε⊕pレε'š ƒïšh    3 months ago

If I open a brothel of robot sex workers can i discipline the ones that get out of line without repercussions?

I need a cool hat, cape and pimp cane too. Purple suit shopping, bbl.....

256

 
 
 
charger 383
16.1  charger 383  replied to  †hε pε⊕pレε'š ƒïšh @16    3 months ago

That is the Best Badfish yet

 
 
 
Ed-NavDoc
17  Ed-NavDoc    3 months ago

Said New York state lawmakers would probably be the first customers...

 
 
 
charger 383
17.1  charger 383  replied to  Ed-NavDoc @17    3 months ago

They might get a discount or 2 for price of 1

 
 
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