What does your car know about you? More than you might think.

  
Via:  perrie-halpern  •  4 months ago  •  167 comments

What does your car know about you? More than you might think.
High-tech cars are able to collect gigabytes of personal information — things like your weight, where you’re going, and, if you connect your phone, music preferences and contacts.

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Perrie Halpern R.A.
1  seeder  Perrie Halpern R.A.    4 months ago

Makes me nervous to get into my car. Who knows who it's' reporting to. 

 
 
 
cjcold
1.1  cjcold  replied to  Perrie Halpern R.A. @1    4 months ago

I duct tape over the cameras and mics on my computers. Just don't like being watched or listened to by....whoever.

A tech told me, and proved to me, that it's easy to do.

Installed a switch in my vehicle that allows me to disable the airbags and cutoff. If it can run, it will. 

Don't like being spied upon by my electronics.

No worries with my hot 68 El Camino 

 
 
 
epistte
1.1.1  epistte  replied to  cjcold @1.1    4 months ago
I duct tape over the cameras and mics on my computers. Just don't like being watched or listened to by....whoever. A tech told me, and proved to me, that it's easy to do.

I have a double folded layer of electrical tape between a piece of cellophane tape over my laptop camera, so its covered but no adhesive gets on the lens of I ever desire to use it.

 Its is relativity easy to disable the airbags. There is often a fuse on the fuse box.

 
 
 
Krishna
1.1.2  Krishna  replied to  cjcold @1.1    4 months ago

You are an extra-special exceedingly important person-- so of course the gubmint wants to spy on you!

Personally, I keep my toaster unplugged-- and also remember to keep your microwave unplugged.

Best to keep it wrapped in an extra thick plastic garbage bag-- a Lead lined one is best if you can get one.

I never realized how the Socialists from the gubmint are so interested in every detail of our private lives.

BTW I learned about how the Socialst gubmint uses Microwaves to spy on us from Alex Jones-- and of course from Kelly Anne Conway-- both really smart people!

In an interview with the  Bergen Record , columnist Mike Kelly talked to Ms. Conway about her thoughts. When asked whether or not she believed the accusations, Kellyanne responded by saying, "What I can say is there are many ways to surveil each other now, unfortunately."

Kellyanne, who is responsible for coining the term  alternative facts , then followed up by saying, "There was an article that week that talked about how you can surveil people through their phones...certainly through their television sets, any number of different ways.

And microwaves that turn into cameras, et cetera. We know that is just a fact of modern life."

And there are more ways the Librul Gubmint spies on us-- all the time!

 
 
 
sandy-2021492
2  sandy-2021492    4 months ago

The first time my car ran out of washer fluid, it emailed me to remind me to buy some.  Helpful, but disturbing.

 
 
 
Split Personality
2.1  Split Personality  replied to  sandy-2021492 @2    4 months ago

Yes, when I lived in the great North East, my GM product emailed me constantly.

At 5AM, when the temperature was 31degrees all of my tires were unsafely UNDERinflated,

but at 5PM with temperatures in the 60's or 70's'

the same untouched tires were dangerously OVERinflated.

Motor oil, if you believed GM, breaks down over time, so much so that they emailed me constantly that I was not maintaining the car.

I averaged about 6,000 mike a year....

It was enough to make me unsubscribe.......

 
 
 
sandy-2021492
2.1.1  sandy-2021492  replied to  Split Personality @2.1    4 months ago

I didn't unsubscribe, but it quit emailing me.  I guess it figured out I was on top of the washer fluid thing.

 
 
 
MrFrost
2.1.2  MrFrost  replied to  Split Personality @2.1    4 months ago
Motor oil, if you believed GM, breaks down over time

Yet it survived in the Earth for millions of years just fine. When I bought my Jeep they told me if I don't drive it for 3 months I should bring it in to have the tank drained because of, "old gas"... I laughed and drove off. 

 
 
 
Split Personality
2.1.3  Split Personality  replied to  MrFrost @2.1.2    4 months ago

My car "required" synthetic motor oil, which is so expensive, I never have the oil changed unless the warranty or included scheduled maintenance has GM pay for it, lol.

 
 
 
MrFrost
2.1.4  MrFrost  replied to  Split Personality @2.1.3    4 months ago

It is expensive, no doubt of that. When I had my BMW it "had" to have synthetic oil as well, which I kind f believe because their cars are built with very tight tolerances. The dealer told me it had to have the premium gas..."pfffft, whatever...". So I filled it with regular gas, the cheap stuff. Ran like shit, no joke. Filled it with premium, ran fine. My beat up Chevy? I could piss in the tank and I bet it would run fine. 

As to your point, I agree...oil doesn't go bad just sitting in an engine any more than it goes bad in the jug on the shelf. It's just a way to scam the consumers. 

Same thing with water... when I was a kid you drank when you were thirsty, now? "You have to drink 8 bottles of water a day!!!!!!". Bottled water industry. <shrugs> Thank goodness I am on my own well.

Best get moving here...busy day and I am dealing with a very sick family member....

Sorry for the slight derail PH!  

 
 
 
1stwarrior
2.1.5  1stwarrior  replied to  MrFrost @2.1.4    4 months ago

Good luck with the family member.

 
 
 
Transyferous Rex
2.1.6  Transyferous Rex  replied to  Split Personality @2.1    4 months ago

Yes!!!

The first time I was advised to pull over because my tire pressure was too low, I did. I checked, and the pressure was low maybe by a lb. My son asked if I was going to air it up. No son, it'll be telling me to pull over and let air out in another mile. 

I think it has finally given up on warning me. 

 
 
 
epistte
2.1.7  epistte  replied to  MrFrost @2.1.4    4 months ago
It is expensive, no doubt of that. When I had my BMW it "had" to have synthetic oil as well, which I kind f believe because their cars are built with very tight tolerances. The dealer told me it had to have the premium gas..."pfffft, whatever...". So I filled it with regular gas, the cheap stuff. Ran like shit, no joke. Filled it with premium, ran fine. My beat up Chevy? I could piss in the tank and I bet it would run fine. 

Your car needs synthetic oil because of the better lubricating properties, such as film shear strength, especially at higher temperatures.

European performance cars tend to have higher compression so it needs premium gas or the ignition timing will be retarded to save the engine from knocking and the resulting damage.   You can run regular but the cars ignition system automatically compensates by back off the timing. That feels to you like the car running sluggish and with a loss of power. 

 Yes, I am a mechanical engineer.   This is the kind of stuff I geek for.

I've run synthetic oil in my cars for 25+ years because the engines last longer and get better mileage due to the lower drag. The longer lifespan and longer change intervals make up for the higher initial cost of synthetic oil.   If you have an older car you will usually get better fuel mileage if you switch to synthetic oil.   Your engine will last longer.

 I like Valvoline full synthetic or Mobil one.  Liqui-Moly, Amsoil and Redline are 2x the cost of common brands.

 
 
 
dave-2693993
2.1.8  dave-2693993  replied to  epistte @2.1.7    4 months ago
Your car needs synthetic oil because of the better lubricating properties, such as film shear strength, especially at higher temperatures.

European performance cars tend to have higher compression so it needs premium gas or the ignition timing will be retarded to save the engine from knocking and the resulting damage.   You can run regular but the cars ignition system automatically compensates by back off the timing. That feels to you like the car running sluggish and with a loss of power. 

 Yes, I am a mechanical engineer.   This is the kind of stuff I geek for...

and you are absolutely spot on the money.

 
 
 
MrFrost
2.1.9  MrFrost  replied to  1stwarrior @2.1.5    4 months ago
Good luck with the family member.

Thank you, but unfortunately it's terminal. I may post an article about it in a few days. 

 
 
 
epistte
2.1.10  epistte  replied to  dave-2693993 @2.1.8    4 months ago
and you are absolutely spot on the money.

Thank you.

Many people are surprised when I geek out on this because they don't expect to hear it from a female. My daughter used to troll guys at trade shows because she also doesn't look like an engineer.   They would sell her a BS line and she would take their claim apart piece by piece. Watching their jaw hit the floor as she walked away laughing is priceless. 

I've been mistaken for being the secretary by manufacturer's reps when I meet them in the lobby. That's always fun.

 
 
 
dave-2693993
2.1.11  dave-2693993  replied to  epistte @2.1.10    4 months ago
I've been mistaken for being the secretary by manufacturer's reps when I meet them in the lobby. That's always fun.

LOL, well when you are right, you are right.

Interesting, my favourite math instructor was my 9th grade "Algebra I Teacher". She had come from the little "town", if you could call it that, my favourite aunt was living in at the time. I was going through what I call "refreshers" in Uni of things she had taught me in "Algebra I", even many years later.

When it came to automotive performance engineering, that is something I did on my own and proved on my own and improved on my own, even to the point of having civil disagreements with folks like Smokey Yunick (RIP). In each and every case, history has been on my side.

BTW, always loved and appreciated a discussion with Smokey. Got some national championships and international UIM world records out of of my own little algorithms.

Now my next automotive challenge is completing the insurance paperwork for my little ZX2 project car. It lights up the insurance companies computer screens like a Christmas Tree.  "It keeps coming up as a collectors car, are you sure it's not a collectors car?"

It doesn't know a thing about me, but it was a milestone in North American automotive production car technology.

Might have been the first American production automobile to combine the following: DOHC, 4 valve VVT technology, variable induction length capability, variable ignition timing capability and fun in a little 2.0 litre manually shifted package.

Almost there and then it is waiting for a BRG with black trim paint job.

The Mustang? Well that is just a hard core race car.

 
 
 
epistte
2.1.12  epistte  replied to  dave-2693993 @2.1.11    4 months ago

I would be terrified of Smoky Yunick.

I cant imagine that a ZX2 would be a collectors car in anyone's imagination but insurance companies are weird.  The Focus SVT is a performance car, but almost nobody is the US knew about it.

I love BRG but I'd go with yellow trim. I want a Lotus Exige or the Evora 430. I wish I could afford the repair bills of either.

 I had lunch with Mo Nunn  and talked with him for about 2 hours before he introduced himself in November of 1994. I was shocked when I learned that I just had lunch with a motorsports legend. He was very down to earth, friendly and extremely knowledgeable. He gave me his card to told me to stay in touch. We swapped a few letters and talked at Mid-Ohio but I lost track of him when he changed teams.

 
 
 
dave-2693993
2.1.13  dave-2693993  replied to  epistte @2.1.12    4 months ago
I cant imagine that a ZX2 would be a collectors car in anyone's imagination but insurance companies are weird.  The Focus SVT is a performance car, but almost nobody is the US knew about it.

Yes, they are incredibly different. The SVT was thought out much better, but I enjoy the ZX2 and what it introduced.

I am way past needing to go fast on the street and like a little sportiness, which the ZX2 is.

Smokey was alright. He was kind of funny. He would jump all over some and take a few puffs on his pipe and settle in for a good conversation with others.

I had lunch with Mo Nunn  and talked with him for about 2 hours before he introduced himself in November of 1994. I was shocked when I learned that I just had lunch with a motorsports legend. He was very down to earth, friendly and extremely knowledgeable. He gave me his card to told me to stay in touch. We swapped a few letters and talked at Mid-Ohio but I lost track of him when he changed teams.

That is cool stuff. Those things come and go. But it is good to have those experiences.

 
 
 
epistte
2.1.14  epistte  replied to  dave-2693993 @2.1.13    4 months ago
I am way past needing to go fast on the street and like a little sportiness, which the ZX2 is.

I'm the same way You can only use so much horsepower on the street but grip is always welcome and can be used. I laugh when some automaker introduces  another exotic or hypercar as they are now called. Most people cannot control a car over 100mph. Street cars are lousy on the track because they weight too much and cannot be properly tuned. A 250c superkart will beat a multi-million dollar track day car.

This 250 supekart around Spa-Francochamps is spooky fast. He is setting lap times of a GT3 Porsche and not much slower than a F3 Dallara. That is impressive for 65hp.

That is cool stuff. Those things come and go. But it is good to have those experiences.

I was terrified when he introduced himself because I was sure that I had said something incredibly stupid. Many people look up to drivers, but as a driver I look up to the engineers and designers who can make or break a good team and know how to put a driver's talents to good use.

 
 
 
sandy-2021492
2.1.15  sandy-2021492  replied to  Split Personality @2.1    4 months ago

I have an '08 Outback, and it had the touchiest tire pressure monitors.  I bought it in March, when it was cool, and spent most of June putting air in my tires and bleeding it out, trying to get that light to go off.  That car didn't email me.  It just had some warning light on most of the time for the whole summer.  It got better after that, even though I quit trying to make it happy.

 
 
 
katrix
2.1.16  katrix  replied to  sandy-2021492 @2.1.15    4 months ago

Most of the tire pressure monitors on my truck are broken.  My tire guy said he could replace them, but had a funny look on his face - it turns out they're something like $100 each so he never recommends it.  I figured I drove for most of my life without them, and I can do without them now.

 
 
 
cjcold
2.1.17  cjcold  replied to  Split Personality @2.1.3    4 months ago

I always run expensive synthetic oil throughout the drivetrain in my vehicles, and it's really cheap considering the alternatives. Whether it is a vehicle, gun or pocket folder there's no sense in using anything but the best.

Conversely, did a medical exam on an oil co. scientist who told me that oil is oil and that I shouldn't waste my money on the expensive shit.

I still do anyway.

 
 
 
sandy-2021492
2.1.18  sandy-2021492  replied to  katrix @2.1.16    4 months ago

This was when my car was only a few months old.  I even took it back to the dealership, and they either added or bled air, and the light went off.  I was on the road half an hour before it came back on jrSmiley_80_smiley_image.gif .  I just started to ignore it, figuring the same as you - this was the first car I'd had with pressure monitors, so I'd obviously been ok for years.

 
 
 
epistte
2.1.19  epistte  replied to  sandy-2021492 @2.1.18    4 months ago
This was when my car was only a few months old.  I even took it back to the dealership, and they either added or bled air, and the light went off.  I was on the road half an hour before it came back on .  I just started to ignore it, figuring the same as you - this was the first car I'd had with pressure monitors, so I'd obviously been ok for years.

They were added to American cars after the Ford Explorer-Firestone tire debacle.

 
 
 
Split Personality
2.1.20  Split Personality  replied to  epistte @2.1.19    4 months ago

Our 07 Toyota has one light for all four tires - maddening.

All of our GM cars tell you which tire is what pressure.

You would not believe how many TPMS are sold every year, usually in sets of four, when people replace tires.

 
 
 
epistte
2.1.21  epistte  replied to  Split Personality @2.1.20    4 months ago
Our 07 Toyota has one light for all four tires - maddening.

All of our GM cars tell you which tire is what pressure.

You would not believe how many TPMS are sold every year, usually in sets of four, when people replace tires.

I ignore mine because of the false alarms. 

Every time I hear that some consumers wanted another system on the car I immediately think of how many ways can this go wrong? Many people don't think that every time you add something to a car, which lives in a hostile environment you are adding many more possible failure points.   This is why I do not trust self-driving cars because of the false sense of security that they provide. I understand that there are many people who do not like to drive but they still have to get places but having a car drive itself is not the answer. IMVHO. 

 
 
 
sandy-2021492
2.1.22  sandy-2021492  replied to  epistte @2.1.21    4 months ago

My car has an anti-collision system that slams on the brakes if I get too close to something. Trouble is, it's too sensitive.  A few months ago, on a windy day, a leaf blowing across the road in front of me triggered it.  It only warned me that it was going to brake, but had it actually applied the brakes, I could have been rear-ended avoiding a leaf jrSmiley_84_smiley_image.gif

 
 
 
epistte
2.1.23  epistte  replied to  sandy-2021492 @2.1.22    4 months ago
My car has an anti-collision system that slams on the brakes if I get too close to something. Trouble is, it's too sensitive.  A few months ago, on a windy day, a leaf blowing across the road in front of me triggered it.  It only warned me that it was going to brake, but had it actually applied the brakes, I could have been rear-ended avoiding a leaf

They have been known to trigger by birds and litter, which would be fun if it happened in traffic.

 I understand that some people are poor drivers who would rather be updating their Facebook status than driving and can't be bothered to check mirrors or use turn signals (my sister) but allowing the car to take over is dangerous.   I don't even like automatic transmissions because I want to be in control of the car.

Does your car have the CVT transmission? I looked at a 2014 Outback (6 cylinders, slate blue with black interior) and like it but the CVT transmission made me think twice. 

 
 
 
cjcold
2.1.24  cjcold  replied to  Split Personality @2.1.20    4 months ago

Took out the stock system in my 2013 Tacoma and replaced it with Alpine. Lost a lot of features but it sounds and looks amazing. I can check tire pressure myself.

 
 
 
sandy-2021492
2.1.25  sandy-2021492  replied to  epistte @2.1.23    4 months ago
Does your car have the CVT transmission?

Yes.  So far, no problems with the transmission, and my neighbor has had an Outback with CVT for quite a few years now, also with no problems.

The only thing I don't like about this one (2017 Legacy) is the paddle shifters for the Sportshift.  My '08 had Sportshift, and the shift was on the floor.  I mostly used it when I was driving in the mountains.  Paddle shifters on the wheel while taking one hairpin turn after another make no sense - I have to look for the paddles, which have turned with the wheel, and I don't have time for that when I can practically kiss my own rear bumper because the turn is so sharp.

 
 
 
epistte
2.1.26  epistte  replied to  sandy-2021492 @2.1.25    4 months ago

I'm not understanding what they would have paddle shifters with a CVT gearbox. The shift on the floor makes more sense. 

I saw an Outback with a white/linen leather interior. It looked nice in a showroom but in a car that is meant to get dirty, they wouldn't be clean for very long.

 
 
 
sandy-2021492
2.1.27  sandy-2021492  replied to  epistte @2.1.26    4 months ago

They seemed to think it was a feature.  I see it as a bug.  I don't even use the Sportshift in this car.  Tried it a few times, was frantically trying to steer and find the shifters, and gave up.

Out of curiosity, what don't you like about CVT?

 
 
 
epistte
2.1.28  epistte  replied to  sandy-2021492 @2.1.27    4 months ago
They seemed to think it was a feature.  I see it as a bug.  I don't even use the Sportshift in this car.  Tried it a few times, was frantically trying to steer and find the shifters, and gave up. Out of curiosity, what don't you like about CVT?

It is a new technology and its not a manual. Mostly Subaru and Nissan use them, usually for better fuel economy. I'd buy the car with a 6-speed manual transmission if I had my way.   Pigs will fly before that happens because people don't want manual transmissions, especially in a quasi-SUV. 

 You cannot buy a new Ferrari or Lamborghini with a manual transmission because everybody has switched to paddle shifters. Most Porsches and Corvettes are also paddle shift. Many people cannot drive a manual and don't want to learn.  There are so few people who can drive a manual that it is almost an anti-theft device because even the thieves can't drive them. 

 
 
 
sandy-2021492
2.1.29  sandy-2021492  replied to  epistte @2.1.28    4 months ago

I see. I can drive a manual, and miss it sometimes, but like the convenience of an automatic.

 
 
 
epistte
2.1.30  epistte  replied to  sandy-2021492 @2.1.29    4 months ago
I see. I can drive a manual, and miss it sometimes, but like the convenience of an automatic.

It takes me a few miles to drive an automatic because I keep wanting to shift it.  I  also feel around for a clutch pedal with my left foot.  All of my cars for the past 30 years have been manuals, so it's instinctive for me.

 
 
 
Split Personality
2.1.31  Split Personality  replied to  epistte @2.1.23    4 months ago
CVT transmission made me think twice. 

Good instincts.

 
 
 
epistte
2.1.32  epistte  replied to  Split Personality @2.1.31    4 months ago
Good instincts.

I understand the technology but I am also wary of the new because it isn't as well tested and proven.  A CVT transmission keeps the engine in its sweet spot longer for better fuel mileage but I'm not sure that it is well sorted yet. They aren't as much fun to drive as a manual because they offer the driver less control.

I am not a fan of paddle shifters the street because they are not a command switch. They are an ask switch that will only change gears when the computer determines if the other shift parameters have been met. I don't like the idea of my driving decisions being second-guessed by a computer.  The paddle shifters on a racecar are a command switch and they are they to keep then drivers hands on the wheel at all times instead of reaching down to shift. Many ECUs also blip the throttle automatically to make the shifts even faster.

To me, a manual gearbox with a clutch is part of the essence of driving and I like the idea that I must be involved in the process instead of just steering the car. I am well aware that I am a rarity but driving to me is relaxing because I forget the other problems and concentrate on the activity at hand. I still heel-and-toe the fuel and brake pedal, even on the street because it feels so good when it is perfect.  I have scuff marks on many of my heels as proof. I should keep a pair of inexpensive flats in my car but I often forget.

 
 
 
Split Personality
2.1.33  Split Personality  replied to  epistte @2.1.32    4 months ago

I'm probably prejudiced by the fact that when they first entered the market they could not be repaired, only replaced,

which played havoc with our inventories for years.

Now they also take some getting used to because you cannot feel the traditional shifting,

which leads to a lot of warranty complaints that just could not be satisfied and some unnecessary replacements,

I test drove one in a Ford and it was just too strange to purchase.

I learned to drive in a '53 Plymouth 6 cylinder stick shift on the column with manual steering, lol.

back in the day we could fix anything with few tools and a few pieces of scrap metal, lol.

 
 
 
Bob Nelson
2.1.34  Bob Nelson  replied to  Split Personality @2.1.33    4 months ago

We learned about cars in an epoch of three-on-the-tree, four-on-the-floor, and CLUNKY automatics.

We felt every shift. We heard that same rise in RPMs, up to the shift.

y-e-ee-eee-eeeee-clunk!

That's how cars work. It's in our blood.

... and then along comes the CVT. It's wrong. It sounds wrong. It feels wrong. Car and Driver can try to explain "optimizing ratios", but I've known since I was a little boy, how cars are supposed to sound and feel. And CVTs are wrong!

 
 
 
Split Personality
2.1.35  Split Personality  replied to  Bob Nelson @2.1.34    4 months ago

I could tune downdraft carburetors by ear gosh darn it and file a distributor cap and a set of points on the side of a corn field

without any tools, just the right stone, lol !!

 
 
 
Bob Nelson
2.1.36  Bob Nelson  replied to  Split Personality @2.1.35    4 months ago

... valve adjustment...

 
 
 
Split Personality
2.1.37  Split Personality  replied to  Bob Nelson @2.1.36    4 months ago

That was kinds of an art, lol. At least with the engine running...

 
 
 
sandy-2021492
2.1.38  sandy-2021492  replied to  Split Personality @2.1.33    4 months ago

Luddite jrSmiley_9_smiley_image.gif

 
 
 
epistte
2.1.39  epistte  replied to  Split Personality @2.1.33    4 months ago
I'm probably prejudiced by the fact that when they first entered the market they could not be repaired, only replaced,

which played havoc with our inventories for years.

Now they also take some getting used to because you cannot feel the traditional shifting,

which leads to a lot of warranty complaints that just could not be satisfied and some unnecessary replacements,

I test drove one in a Ford and it was just too strange to purchase.

Automatic transmissions are so complex that unless the problem is obvious it is often cheaper to replace the unit with a rebuilt model than to try to fix it. The CVT has good ideas but I am not convinced that they are sufficiently developed for mainstream use. I love Subarus but I wish they had an optional transmission, be it a traditional automatic or a 6-speed manual.  

I learned to drive in a '53 Plymouth 6 cylinder stick shift on the column with manual steering, lol. back in the day we could fix anything with few tools and a few pieces of scrap metal, lol.

My father in law had a 1970s Chevy pickup with a column shifter when we started dating.  I never understood that thing.  I used to be able to do basic repairs but I don't like to get dirty and I don't have the tools. I learned to drive manual transmission on a farm tractor.  I helped her get her chores done so we could go do what we wanted. I learned to drive on my parents 1973 Dodge Dart.   That has a lot of horsepower but bad brakes and questionable handling. It was dangerous for a teen.

 
 
 
cjcold
2.1.40  cjcold  replied to  Split Personality @2.1.20    4 months ago

My 13 Tacoma is the same way. But I changed the stock head with a Blu-Ray Alpine so who knows what all I lost. Tend to check my own fluid and pressure levels anyway and don't rely on fallible sensors.

 
 
 
Heartland American
2.1.41  Heartland American  replied to  Split Personality @2.1.3    4 months ago

I have an older SUV with high miles on it and when all the fluids were replaced after 150k miles, they are now synthetic and so are all the oil changes.  I follow all the recommended maintenance plus synthetics. Now it’s got over 200k miles on it and since it’s body and paint are in great shape and the dash and leather interior in very good condition for a nearly 16 year old car, I intend to maintain it well since it would cost about 40-45k to buy a new 2019 or soon 2020 Sorento with the same features this 2004 one has. As to computer, it’s not that modern though it has a bunch of air bags and the stereo is not the standard 6 disc changer but a touch screen that is blue tooth, usb, mp3, internet capable and has one disc that can be either cd or dvd.  Not sure who it could report info to?  My IPhone is more likely to give out info thus no google or google maps or google earth on it.  

 
 
 
Perrie Halpern R.A.
2.2  seeder  Perrie Halpern R.A.  replied to  sandy-2021492 @2    4 months ago

LMAO... that almost reads as a joke.. a creepy one! 

 
 
 
sandy-2021492
2.2.1  sandy-2021492  replied to  Perrie Halpern R.A. @2.2    4 months ago

It happened, and I laughed at the time, but it was creepy.  Also, to my car, I'll get the washer fluid when I go to town.  Stop nagging me, already!

 
 
 
cjcold
2.3  cjcold  replied to  sandy-2021492 @2    4 months ago

Thanks Sandy. Just went out and refilled my window washer reservoir and checked all other fluid levels. Not disturbing. You are much better than a annoying alarm.

 
 
 
MrFrost
3  MrFrost    4 months ago

Next thing ya know it will be telling you when you need to get your teeth cleaned... Oh Hi Sandy! 

 
 
 
sandy-2021492
3.1  sandy-2021492  replied to  MrFrost @3    4 months ago

If that alert was as annoying as my damned seatbelt alarm, it would be very effective.

 
 
 
MrFrost
3.1.1  MrFrost  replied to  sandy-2021492 @3.1    4 months ago

LOL very true. In my old beater Chevy, it complains for a minute, then stops, but my 2019 Jeep? It complains constantly. I live a mile down a private road, so when I stop to get the mail at the start of the road, I usually don't put my seat belt back on. 

 
 
 
sandy-2021492
3.1.2  sandy-2021492  replied to  MrFrost @3.1.1    4 months ago
I live a mile down a private road, so when I stop to get the mail at the start of the road, I usually don't put my seat belt back on.

Same, but it's about a quarter of a mile for me.  And it dings at any speed over 5 mph.

 
 
 
MrFrost
3.1.3  MrFrost  replied to  sandy-2021492 @3.1.2    4 months ago

I get that, in the Jeep I usually put it on just to shut it up, but in the beater I don't. 

 
 
 
cjcold
3.1.4  cjcold  replied to  sandy-2021492 @3.1    4 months ago

Spent 15 years as a paramedic and have seen the seatbelt alert save many lives. I tend to buckle up before I even put the key in the ignition just to avoid having to hear it. Pretty sure that was the intent.

 
 
 
epistte
3.1.5  epistte  replied to  cjcold @3.1.4    4 months ago
Spent 15 years as a paramedic and have seen the seatbelt alert save many lives. I tend to buckle up before I even put the key in the ignition just to avoid having to hear it. Pretty sure that was the intent.

I've gotten to the point where I start the car and let it idle for a minute while I buckle up.  I received a $75 ticket a few years ago for not buckling up. My radar detector saved me from a 10mph over speeding ticket, but I still got the seatbelt ticket.

 
 
 
Perrie Halpern R.A.
3.2  seeder  Perrie Halpern R.A.  replied to  MrFrost @3    4 months ago
Next thing ya know it will be telling you when you need to get your teeth cleaned... Oh Hi Sandy! 

My electric toothbrush reminds me daily. 

 
 
 
†hε pε⊕pレε'š ƒïšh
3.2.1  †hε pε⊕pレε'š ƒïšh  replied to  Perrie Halpern R.A. @3.2    4 months ago

They added wifi to the sonicare sex toy?

 
 
 
Perrie Halpern R.A.
3.2.2  seeder  Perrie Halpern R.A.  replied to  †hε pε⊕pレε'š ƒïšh @3.2.1    4 months ago

I don't need to scrub down there. My teeth are a whole other issue. 

 
 
 
†hε pε⊕pレε'š ƒïšh
3.2.3  †hε pε⊕pレε'š ƒïšh  replied to  Perrie Halpern R.A. @3.2.2    4 months ago

TMI......

 
 
 
Perrie Halpern R.A.
3.2.4  seeder  Perrie Halpern R.A.  replied to  †hε pε⊕pレε'š ƒïšh @3.2.3    4 months ago

Hey, you brought it up, Sir. 

 
 
 
†hε pε⊕pレε'š ƒïšh
3.2.5  †hε pε⊕pレε'š ƒïšh  replied to  Perrie Halpern R.A. @3.2.4    4 months ago

You dirtied my comment, unforgivable!

Back to GPS quickly!

 
 
 
Perrie Halpern R.A.
3.2.6  seeder  Perrie Halpern R.A.  replied to  †hε pε⊕pレε'š ƒïšh @3.2.5    4 months ago
You dirtied my comment, unforgivable!

LOL, I think you did that by making my toothbrush a sex toy. Yikes, talk about Ouch!

Now back to our show...

 
 
 
†hε pε⊕pレε'š ƒïšh
3.2.7  †hε pε⊕pレε'š ƒïšh  replied to  Perrie Halpern R.A. @3.2.6    4 months ago

Sorry about that, i visited the Dentist forum by mistake one day. Evidently Dentist's are lonely and very creative.

 
 
 
MrFrost
3.2.8  MrFrost  replied to  Perrie Halpern R.A. @3.2.6    4 months ago
LOL, I think you did that by making my toothbrush a sex toy.

Big Bang Theory episode about that... 

 
 
 
FLYNAVY1
3.2.9  FLYNAVY1  replied to  MrFrost @3.2.8    4 months ago

I believe Amy F.F. named her toothbrush "Gerard"

 
 
 
cjcold
3.2.10  cjcold  replied to  Perrie Halpern R.A. @3.2.2    4 months ago

Everybody, if not scrub, at least has to rub down there. If not for personal hygiene at least for fun.

 
 
 
MrFrost
4  MrFrost    4 months ago

Have a good night all. 

 
 
 
Dulay
5  Dulay    4 months ago

Since I drive an 89 Jeep Wrangler, the only thing my car knows is that I never take it to a car wash. 

 
 
 
Buzz of the Orient
6  Buzz of the Orient    4 months ago

Oh oh!  If your car has any parts made in China, then China knows all about you too.  LOL

 
 
 
dave-2693993
7  dave-2693993    4 months ago

My cars know nada, zip, zilch about me and I can state that with authority.

 
 
 
Raven Wing
7.1  Raven Wing  replied to  dave-2693993 @7    4 months ago
My cars know nada, zip, zilch about me and I can state that with authority.

As my car does not speak Cherokee it does not really know all that much about me. jrSmiley_91_smiley_image.gif

 
 
 
dave-2693993
7.1.1  dave-2693993  replied to  Raven Wing @7.1    4 months ago

If your car knows any Cherokee, it's doing a better job than I am.

 
 
 
Enoch
7.1.2  Enoch  replied to  Raven Wing @7.1    4 months ago

BOL!

 Great one.

E.

 
 
 
Buzz of the Orient
7.1.3  Buzz of the Orient  replied to  Raven Wing @7.1    4 months ago

Does a Jeep Cherokee understand Cherokee?

 
 
 
Raven Wing
7.1.4  Raven Wing  replied to  Buzz of the Orient @7.1.3    4 months ago
Does a Jeep Cherokee understand Cherokee?

I don't know about a Jeep Cherokee, but, even though my GL does not speak Cherokee, I am not too sure how much it understands. jrSmiley_9_smiley_image.gif

 
 
 
charger 383
7.1.5  charger 383  replied to  Raven Wing @7.1.4    4 months ago

I think I am going to have to tell my Jeep Cherokee to go set in back yard until January when it can have antique tags, not one bit of rust on body but underneath might not pass inspection.  Great ride for 18 years

 
 
 
cjcold
7.1.6  cjcold  replied to  charger 383 @7.1.5    4 months ago

Supercharged, nitrous and alcohol injected 87 RX7. Go through lots of rear tires.

 
 
 
dave-2693993
7.1.7  dave-2693993  replied to  cjcold @7.1.6    4 months ago
nitrous and alcohol injected

That's a tough one in cold weather.

 
 
 
cjcold
7.1.8  cjcold  replied to  dave-2693993 @7.1.7    4 months ago

Actually the methanol tends to work well in sub o temps.

Nitrous is a different matter.

 
 
 
cjcold
7.1.9  cjcold  replied to  cjcold @7.1.8    4 months ago

Have blown up a few engines with nitrous.

 
 
 
dave-2693993
7.1.10  dave-2693993  replied to  cjcold @7.1.8    4 months ago

Here is the problem in with N2O in cold weather. Often,more times than not, there is not enough time to get enough heat into the engine before it is time to go.

A way fat condition, compared to normal, naturally aspirated conditions is needed when the N2O comes on and it varies depending on the heat in the system. More often than not, there wont be enough heat in the system when the Christmas tree hits green. Not as much a big deal with petrol, but very big deal with methanol or ethanol due to their stoichiometric properties in that environment while also trying to match the released oxygen from the N2O under full throttle at full load. Cold temps makes it worse. E.g. cruise with petrol is ~14.7:1 under full throttle, more like 12.5:1. The methanol or ethanol, in the cold, with releasing O2 from N2O can be a challenge.

...forgot something, the swing is greater for either methanol or ethanol, adding the cold makes it worse to keep up with a fat enough condition in the N2O situation under load in the cold.

And really, isn't methanol more suited to cooling heated conditions, such as high compression with high boost?

Anyhow, very easy for a big backfire to occur in the cold with methanol/ethanol and N2O in the cold. Race is done.

 
 
 
dave-2693993
7.1.11  dave-2693993  replied to  cjcold @7.1.8    4 months ago

Found this chart, you might find interesting. The 100%E is pure Ethanol, but gives an idea of how fat it must be for cruise vs under full power, let alone keeping up with a N2O mix. It can be a very helpful chart.

800

 
 
 
cjcold
7.1.12  cjcold  replied to  dave-2693993 @7.1.10    4 months ago

with high boost

I'm a firm believer in water injection under high boost conditions. Rotary engines get hot.

Had to build a larger pulley on the supercharger to stop blowing it up.

Designed a pop-off valve for the blower which also went a long way to saving engines.

 
 
 
cjcold
7.1.13  cjcold  replied to  dave-2693993 @7.1.11    4 months ago
with high boost

Have a digital device on the RX7 dash that lets me know exactly what I'm burning.

 
 
 
cjcold
7.1.14  cjcold  replied to  cjcold @7.1.13    4 months ago

Ya gotta love the word stoichiometric.

 
 
 
epistte
7.1.15  epistte  replied to  cjcold @7.1.6    4 months ago
Supercharged, nitrous and alcohol injected 87 RX7. Go through lots of rear tires.

How many apex seals did you destroy?

I raced a Formula Mazda in the SCCA and I hate the sound of those things. The ported engines are even worse , but even a stock engine has an ear-piercing whine when revved past 6000rpm.  I didn't think that i would need ear plugs with a racing helmet but I was almost deaf after my first session in the car. The expanding foam plugs helped immensely.

 
 
 
Raven Wing
7.1.16  Raven Wing  replied to  charger 383 @7.1.5    4 months ago
not one bit of rust on body but underneath might not pass inspection

Since we don't get much snow at the lower levels here in So Calif, and I don't live near any beaches, rust is not a problem for my Taurus. 

 
 
 
cjcold
7.1.17  cjcold  replied to  Raven Wing @7.1.16    4 months ago

Since we had no snow in the land of Oz this year my little black truck is still pristine.

 
 
 
dave-2693993
7.1.18  dave-2693993  replied to  cjcold @7.1.12    4 months ago
I'm a firm believer in water injection under high boost conditions. Rotary engines get hot.

Had to build a larger pulley on the supercharger to stop blowing it up.

Designed a pop-off valve for the blower which also went a long way to saving engines.

That right there pretty much sums up my favourite part of racing.

Coming up with that new and better mouse trap. In my applications I am more a fan of methanol injection, but in the end you do what works for the application.

The fella I worked with who liked the N2O/Methanol mix, eventually decided on a hot weather/cold weather tune up library.

Methanol was fed through the primary fuel system both hot and cold days.

The N2O fuel circuit fed methanol during hot weather and petrol during cold weather. Simplified everything. No fuss, no muss.

 
 
 
dave-2693993
7.1.19  dave-2693993  replied to  cjcold @7.1.14    4 months ago
Ya gotta love the word stoichiometric.

Yeah, me too.

Used to think it was some blow hard word. "Why can't the idiot just say AFR?"

Then one day I learned it explains why an AFR is what it is. It is more than just the resultant AFR number. It's how you got there. Also, there is in going stoichiometry and outgoing stoichiometry. Think of so called perfect numbers from a 5 gas analyzer.

Of course this is bordering on one of my disagreements with Smokey and a lot of other people too. Some for the same and some for very different reasons.

For example Somkey's Lean Burn Engine. Others for those who tune for those magic numbers at the expense of HP.

Another was Smokey's long rod/stroke ratio dictum. There is no magic R/S ratio, there is only packaging.

 
 
 
dave-2693993
7.1.20  dave-2693993  replied to  epistte @7.1.15    4 months ago
How many apex seals did you destroy?

Not really experienced with the rotary, but fascinated by it.

I have had some racers tell me, it is folks who do not now how to set up the oiling system cause the problems. No first hand experience, but that is what I have been told.

 
 
 
epistte
7.1.21  epistte  replied to  dave-2693993 @7.1.20    4 months ago

Ours was a sealed 13.b(I think).  It was cheap because everyone had the same engine and I didn't have to worry that if I missed a shift I could not bend or break a valve.  We never had a problem with oiling, but it didn't like to run when cold.  I discovered that I hate Weber carburetors.  They don't have much torque so you had to keep it wound up or you would get passed.

https://www.windingroad.com/articles/blogs/race-class-profile-formula-mazda/

They sound annoying,

 
 
 
dave-2693993
7.1.22  dave-2693993  replied to  epistte @7.1.21    4 months ago

I'll tell you one thing, the Road Atlanta clip is addictive.

Sorry for the subject change, but do you know much about the history of Road Atlanta? Is the configuration the same as when it first opened?

What is your familiarity of the Big Block era of Can-Am racing and Tony Dean's win at the track during the first Can-Am race there with his little 3litre Porsche 908 that had already logged a few endurance races under it's belt prior to the race? Stuff of legends.

As for the Weber, without knowing some details about the package, I tend to want to withhold judgement.  Not that I am doubting you, I'm just one of those guys that needs to know the details before deciding.

 
 
 
epistte
7.1.23  epistte  replied to  dave-2693993 @7.1.22    4 months ago
'll tell you one thing, the Road Atlanta clip is addictive. Sorry for the subject change, but do you know much about the history of Road Atlanta? Is the configuration the same as when it first opened?

I know next to nothing about Road Atlanta. I don't know of any previous configurations.

What is your familiarity of the Big Block era of Can-Am racing and Tony Dean's win at the track during the first Can-Am race there with his little 3litre Porsche 908 that had already logged a few endurance races under it's belt prior to the race? Stuff of legends.

I only know what I have read about I wasn't yet interested in motorsports when they were happening.  I was about 4-5 at that time.  I've seen a few big block McLarens in Vintage events. I've never seen a 917 or a 917-30.

As for the Weber, without knowing some details about the package, I tend to want to withhold judgement.  Not that I am doubting you, I'm just one of those guys that needs to know the details before deciding.

We could get them to run fine at high RPM, but them we sacrificed low RPM and starting ability.

 If they would start well and idle then they didnt perform well at racing speed. I missed the flexiability and tuning possiblies of throttle body fuel inhjection, espcually when it had an ECM that could be tuned with a laptop. 

http://www.redlineweber.com/html/Types/making_the_right_choice.htm

 
 
 
dave-2693993
7.1.24  dave-2693993  replied to  epistte @7.1.23    4 months ago

This gives a little bit of background. I would prefer a reincarnation of an old Sports Car Graphic article, from the days when Bob Tulius was at the helm.

https://silodrome.com/can-am-documentary/

There is a video that had potential to be very good. Unfortunately, the announcer pretty much made a mess of a few key items, especially concerning the Group 7 Can-Am cars.

Still worth a read and the vid can at least be entertaining if if viewed if it is for entertainment purposes only.

 
 
 
dave-2693993
7.1.25  dave-2693993  replied to  epistte @7.1.23    4 months ago
We could get them to run fine at high RPM, but them we sacrificed low RPM and starting ability.
 If they would start well and idle then they didnt perform well at racing speed. I missed the flexiability and tuning possiblies of throttle body fuel inhjection, espcually when it had an ECM that could be tuned with a laptop. 
http://www.redlineweber.com/html/Types/making_the_right_choice.htm

Good reference article. Is that a DCOE in the earlier vid?

What I would need goes beyond the carburetor itself. Just the way the signals hit the jets, circuits etc, can make a big difference in how a carb responds. I would need some measurements of the entire induction system, such as lengths, cross sections, volume, tapper, etc. and compare that to the overall state of engine tune, including pulse signal rates.

As you have learned, a carb, by it's very nature is dependent on the engine signals. EFI or even a good timed mechanical injection system, such as the Lucas systems, on the other hand can force the issue fuel delivery, atomization, suspension in the "air stream", etc.

And sometimes, given rules, you just can't get there from here.

 
 
 
epistte
7.1.26  epistte  replied to  dave-2693993 @7.1.25    4 months ago
Good reference article. Is that a DCOE in the earlier vid?

Its a 50 DCOE, IIRC.

What I would need goes beyond the carburetor itself. Just the way the signals hit the jets, circuits etc, can make a big difference in how a carb responds. I would need some measurements of the entire induction system, such as lengths, cross sections, volume, tapper, etc. and compare that to the overall state of engine tune, including pulse signal rates.

As you have learned, a carb, by it's very nature is dependent on the engine signals. EFI or even a good timed mechanical injection system, such as the Lucas systems, on the other hand can force the issue fuel delivery, atomization, suspension in the "air stream", etc.

And sometimes, given rules, you just can't get there from here.

We were permitted to change jets but that was the limit in a very tightly controlled spec series.  We were supposed to be limited to 93 octane pump gas but occasionally a bottle of octane booster found its way into our fuel cans. 

I had to forfeit a pole position because I couldn't get the car started in time for the roll-out once it hot-soaked on the false grid.  Then I was a black flag on the warm-up lap because I dumped the clutch at 4000rpm just to keep it running, but there was a grid marshal standing behind a formula car on a gravel parking lot. He was warned to move but he didn't, and I was black flagged for his stupidity because he was showered with gravel when the clutch grabbed.   I thought that people were smart enough not to stand behind an open wheeled car. Even on concrete, you are often peppered with rubber marbles from the tires.

 
 
 
dave-2693993
7.1.27  dave-2693993  replied to  epistte @7.1.26    4 months ago
Good reference article. Is that a DCOE in the earlier vid?

Its a 50 DCOE, IIRC.

What I would need goes beyond the carburetor itself. Just the way the signals hit the jets, circuits etc, can make a big difference in how a carb responds. I would need some measurements of the entire induction system, such as lengths, cross sections, volume, tapper, etc. and compare that to the overall state of engine tune, including pulse signal rates.

As you have learned, a carb, by it's very nature is dependent on the engine signals. EFI or even a good timed mechanical injection system, such as the Lucas systems, on the other hand can force the issue fuel delivery, atomization, suspension in the "air stream", etc.

And sometimes, given rules, you just can't get there from here.

We were permitted to change jets but that was the limit in a very tightly controlled spec series.  We were supposed to be limited to 93 octane pump gas but occasionally a bottle of octane booster found its way into our fuel cans. 

I had to forfeit a pole position because I couldn't get the car started in time for the roll-out once it hot-soaked on the false grid.  Then I was a black flag on the warm-up lap because I dumped the clutch at 4000rpm just to keep it running, but there was a grid marshal standing behind a formula car on a gravel parking lot. He was warned to move but he didn't, and I was black flagged for his stupidity because he was showered with gravel when the clutch grabbed.   I thought that people were smart enough not to stand behind an open wheeled car. Even on concrete, you are often peppered with rubber marbles from the tires.

Sorry, meant to get back to you sooner, and hopefully with questions that are not too tedious.

...if you do not mind a little technical Q&A...?

Promise to start at a higher level, before getting more detailed.

Is that particular carb model and intake and mandate, or is it just a commonly used one?

Without running any numbers* the 50 just seems too big. Do you know which size "choke insert" it is using?

Is there a reason why a 48 wasn't used with a choke insert based on some dyno testing?

Are there any real technical specs on the intake available anywhere?

*Note: I would have to make an algorithm to predict "cylinder"/"chamber" rate of displacement (whatever you want to call it) during the induction cycle and also get a handle on "trapped" VE% of one of those engines to run any meaningful numbers.

I specify trapped VE% because plain old VE% can make someones claim to fame look good while at the same time adding 0 or even deducting from power potential when added induction flows right out the exhaust without contributing to power production.

Is this stuff you know? Or can you point me in a direction a rotary resource who might have a handle on this kind of information?

Thank you in advance.

 
 
 
dave-2693993
7.1.28  dave-2693993  replied to  dave-2693993 @7.1.27    4 months ago
We were permitted to change jets but that was the limit in a very tightly controlled spec series.

Just to clarify my questioning of this, and don't take this personally, it is not unheard of for folks in general to make a blanket misinterpretation that can often be clarified with a phone call to the folks who wrote the rule.

Can you get a copy of the carb rule?

 
 
 
epistte
7.1.29  epistte  replied to  dave-2693993 @7.1.27    4 months ago
Promise to start at a higher level, before getting more detailed. Is that particular carb model and intake and mandate, or is it just a commonly used one?

It is mandated.  It comes with the sealed engine and we were not permitted to modify it.  The carburetor was part of the engine package and it was strictly regulated. Any modification or tampering was an instant disqualification. According to the rules, this is the engine builder. I had to Google it.

http://www.drummondengines.com/

Is this stuff you know? Or can you point me in a direction a rotary resource who might have a handle on this kind of information?

Thank you in advance.

No, I don't have answers for you.  I'm not sure where to suggest because I do not know who the engine builder is.  I didn't own the car. I just leased it and he took care of the maintenance and transportation. 

 
 
 
dave-2693993
7.1.30  dave-2693993  replied to  epistte @7.1.29    4 months ago

Trust me, you have given me more information that you might have imagined.

I'll take a look at that link and see who I can track down for some Q&A.

I haven't had a copy of the SCCA rules and regs for a while, but I am sure I can track that down for some detail on the current scrutineering.

Thanks.

 
 
 
epistte
7.1.31  epistte  replied to  dave-2693993 @7.1.30    4 months ago

I haven't had a copy of the SCCA rules and regs for a while, but I am sure I can track that down for some detail on the current scrutineering.

Thanks.

 
I let my SCCA membership lapse about 10 years ago or I would let you use my membership registration to search their site. My last GCR was dated 2010.  Drummond engine builders might be able to help you.
There might be a few fellow gearheads on this Mazda racing forum who know what you are looking for. 
 
Can you get a copy of the carb rule?
That is part of the FM class rules. Formula Mazda is a spec class and that engine is not to be modified under any circumstances. If there was a problem with the engine it was removed and swapped with a new engine from the SCCA. If the team even turned a few bolts it would break the seals on the engine and you would be disqualified. There were only about 4 ways to tune the car and it was all in the suspension and tire compounds.   

 
 
 
dave-2693993
7.1.32  dave-2693993  replied to  epistte @7.1.31    4 months ago

It occurred to me, you may know something about this without realizing it, about my "rate of displacement" statement earlier.

Let's just stick with 4 cycle internal combustion reciprocating engines for a now.

There is a relationship between engine stroke, connecting rod length and rpm which can describe instantaneous piston velocity at any point in the arc of crankshaft rotation and which can be described with the following algorithm, not quoted because I derived it and btw happens to match an algorithm I saw several years later which was published in a 1928 SAE Journal. Even the variables are almost exact:

Instantaneous Piston Velocity = IP

Mean Piston Velocity constant = MV

MV=2*stroke/12*rpm....figure stroke in inches. Dividing by 12 gives you feet and the results will be in ft/min.

Crank Throw = Stroke/2=CT

Crank Angle = CA

Connecting Rod Length=CL

Ideal R/S Ratio = ((Deck height - Shortest Piston CD I can get away with – CT)/stroke; Allows for lightest possible piston/ring combination.

IP=MV*Pi/2*sin(CA)*[1+(cos(CA)/(sqrt(((CL/CT)^2-sin(CA)^2))))]

When plugged in to a spreadsheet, you get something like this with with variations you get something like this (btw, this was a multi time ANDRA championship winning Pro Stock engine with a reduced connecting rod length to "protect the innocent"):

800

If you are a numbers geek like me you will get it from the numbers above. On the other hand, if your are just tired and don't want to fiddle with it the graph gives an idea of rate of displacement.

You can see how it leans heavily towards the 1st 90* of crankshaft rotation. Same applise to the last 90*.

What I am missing are the details of how to deconstruct how that works in a rotary engine.

It can not be overstated how crucial the relationship of this rate of displacement is relative to induction tuning this is.

An incredible amount of engine builders are ignorant of this until it is shown to them and explained. Then it becomes a light bulb moment if it sinks in.

Is this something you know for the rotary?

 
 
 
epistte
7.1.33  epistte  replied to  dave-2693993 @7.1.32    4 months ago
An incredible amount of engine builders are ignorant of this until it is shown to them and explained. Then it becomes a light bulb moment if it sinks in. Is this something you know for the rotary?

I know next to nothing about rotaries. Racing that car was my first and only experience with them.   The engine was off limits to tuning, so I didn't bother to learn because anything that I learned could not be used.  I was more interested in learning about dampers and spring rates because that could be used to tune the car.  I prefer a very stiff setup that borders on oversteer and that car was designed to be forgiving and soft for beginners, so it wasn't what I liked.  I was always complaining about understeer. It had decent power in a straight line but as soon as it got to the corners it fell over on itself and just understeered the more that you pushed it.  It was very frustrating.

 
 
 
dave-2693993
7.1.34  dave-2693993  replied to  epistte @7.1.33    4 months ago
I prefer a very stiff setup that borders on oversteer

Sounds like a Michael Schumacher type of setup.

The more I have been thinking about the rotary is to get a junk yard item, dissect and start taking some measurements. I hate generic descriptions of, "well that's the way it has always been done".

 
 
 
epistte
7.1.35  epistte  replied to  dave-2693993 @7.1.34    4 months ago
Sounds like a Michael Schumacher type of setup.

I can handle oversteer and I like a car that I can toss around when needed with either the steering wheel or the throttle. I guess that is what happens when you learn to drive at the limit on snow and ice.  It took me a long time to trust the aerodynamics effects of wings because the car can seems unstable below that speed but you need to learn  to go faster and the downforce created by the wings will help you. It feels counter-intuitive the first few times.

Understeer is fine on an oval, but I hate ovals.

The more I have been thinking about the rotary is to get a junk yard item, dissect and start taking some measurements. I hate generic descriptions of, "well that's the way it has always been done".

When someone says "that's the ways its always done" usually means I don't know much and I never thought about the possibility of doing otherwise. Its usually time to disassemble it and find out what the limits are and how it reacts if you do what hasn't been done, or hasn't been recorded when it was done.  That is usually the good times because you get to take it to its limit, break it and then take the new design to its limits again.

 
 
 
MrFrost
7.1.36  MrFrost  replied to  epistte @7.1.35    4 months ago

I am sure you have seen this before...But...Damn impressive...

 
 
 
dave-2693993
7.1.37  dave-2693993  replied to  epistte @7.1.35    4 months ago

For grins I did a search for junk yard rotary motors and got a hit on some evilbay listings.

Found some in the range of $499 to $4500.

I am looking for a "come get it out of here, it's yours" listing.

Then a way to make volume measurements.

 
 
 
dave-2693993
7.1.38  dave-2693993  replied to  epistte @7.1.35    4 months ago
When someone says "that's the ways its always done" usually means I don't know much and I never thought about the possibility of doing otherwise

Yep, did you ever here of Paul Van Valkenburgs dog turd principle?

 
 
 
dave-2693993
7.1.39  dave-2693993  replied to  MrFrost @7.1.36    4 months ago

I would be hesitant to crew chief a car like that for such a test run.

 
 
 
epistte
7.1.40  epistte  replied to  dave-2693993 @7.1.38    4 months ago
Yep, did you ever here of Paul Van Valkenburgs dog turd principle?

I don't remember a dog turd principle .

I have Van Valkenburg's book. I also have the book by the (Doug and Bill)Millken. 

Paul used to have a column in Racecar engineering.

 
 
 
dave-2693993
7.1.41  dave-2693993  replied to  epistte @7.1.40    4 months ago
I don't remember a dog turd principle .

It goes like this.

A fella shows up for a local sportsman race and survives the preliminaries and goes on to win the feature.

By the way, there is a dog turd taped to the hood of his car.

Second week, same thing thing and the dog turd is still stped to the hood of his car.

The third week, the fella shows up and looks around to see everyone has dog turds taped to the hoods of their cars.

"that's the way it's always been done", or monkey see, monkey do, or, in the Smokey Yunick, Jr Johnson, Harry Hyde era, get their minds focusing on something stupid.

BTW, Paul was a very good technical contributor to Sports Car Graphic and and previewed some interesting parts of Unfair Advantage there.

 
 
 
epistte
7.1.42  epistte  replied to  dave-2693993 @7.1.41    4 months ago

Paul Vanvalkenburg used to write a technical column for race-car engineering.

I love Carroll Smith's comments about racing drivers. Drivers cannot be re-engineered, rebuilt or tuned and they prevented proper triangulation of a chassis. Drive to win and Screw to Win are still great books, even 25 years later.

His comment about cheating is classic. He said he knew that other team was cheating because he was also cheating and they were still beating him.

 
 
 
dave-2693993
7.1.43  dave-2693993  replied to  epistte @7.1.42    4 months ago
His comment about cheating is classic. He said he knew that other team was cheating because he was also cheating and they were still beating him.

That is funny.

 
 
 
epistte
7.1.44  epistte  replied to  dave-2693993 @7.1.43    4 months ago
That is funny.

There is a book published by Norelco that outlined the later GTP era of IMSA. The forward to the book has the very best description of motorsports that I have ever read. I'll try to scan mine and post it. 

These are classic quips about motorsports,

http://kb.fmiracing.com/quotes-racing
 
 
 
dave-2693993
7.1.45  dave-2693993  replied to  epistte @7.1.44    4 months ago

Pretty good list.

I heard some of the unnamed ones as they were spoken. Many were televised so a lot of folks probably did as well.

Some of the old ones are the best like Colin Chapman's, Roger Penske's, Enzo Ferarri's, Sterling Moss, Juan Fangio, Jackie Stewart, Mario Andretti etc.

I have to give the nascar guys credit for their humor.

Many may not understand this one from Dale Earnhardt; "You win some, lose some, and wreck some."- Dale Earnhardt Sr..

He is not talking about his wrecks, he is talking about him wrecking other people.

An un-named Dale Earnhardtism:

On racers that favored implementation of restrictor plates:
"If they don't want to go that fast, all they have to do is lift...and somebody better tie a kerosene soaked wrag around their legs to keep the ants from eating their candy a$$!"

Enjoyed the AK quote. I still have a barely worn Underbird shirt. Kulwiki was my kind of racer.

Same with Robert Yates. An absolute engine building genius. He was another one who could and would mess with peoples heads via the dog turd principle.

Edit to add Hunter S. Thompson put up some fairly interesting stuff at Cycle World.

 
 
 
epistte
7.1.46  epistte  replied to  dave-2693993 @7.1.45    4 months ago
http://kb.fmiracing.com/quotes-racing

This is my life story,

Speed costs money. How fast can you afford to go?

One of my favorite quotes is from a racing instructor at Bertil Roos where I earned my license. "Remember, the grey stuff has more grip then the green stuff and your lap times are faster when the car is shiny side up". He told that to me every time I was belting myself into the car and he adjusted the mirrors for me.   I wish that I knew his name. I only remember that he raced a Ferrari F348 challenge car occasionally.

 
 
 
dave-2693993
7.1.47  dave-2693993  replied to  epistte @7.1.46    4 months ago

Hey, is was right.

 
 
 
Bob Nelson
8  Bob Nelson    4 months ago

This is the world that's coming.

The real topic here isn't even the cars - your fridge may "know" as much. That little Alexa speaker sitting next to your TV can answer all sorts of questions, although it has no memory at all. It's connected to Amazon's cloud, and Amazon knows... everything! 

Well, no Amazon doesn't know everything. Google does.

We're going to Estonia and Serbia for the women's European basketball championship. My wife does all the ticket-buying. As she made reservations... my Google calendar gradually filled...

Tech is moving so fast that we no longer know what "privacy" means. There's absolutely nothing in my life that could interest Google. Their advertisers are a different story. Politicians are a different story.

Your life is a commodity.

 
 
 
†hε pε⊕pレε'š ƒïšh
9  †hε pε⊕pレε'š ƒïšh    4 months ago

Unless there is a court order you are with in your right to disable the GPS tracking devices on newer model vehicles. Onstar can also be disabled.

 
 
 
cjcold
9.1  cjcold  replied to  †hε pε⊕pレε'š ƒïšh @9    4 months ago

And have disabled it on my phone.

 
 
 
Enoch
10  Enoch    4 months ago

Dear To Whom It May Concern: The Enochobile is old enough to vote. Next year I can legally fill up the gas tank with an alcoholic beverage. 

While it doesn't know all that much about me, there are some benefits to driving this 2001 rustbucket of romance.

Chrome fender dents.

Factory installed air conditioning from a fully equipped air conditioned factory.

Perma-wrinkle paint in several Def Con high alert colors.

Four OEM tires, each one a different size.

Four off the floor headlamps. (They never installed them). 

Edible steering complex.

Convertible radio (it doubles as an etch a sketch).

A rumble seat (Jets Vs. Sharks).

Power gas bills and automatic repair needs.

1 1/2 herniated horses under the hood.

Goes from 0 to 60 in less than a month (downhill on bald tires with a strong tail wind).

Van De Graff Generator Entertainment system for the kids. 

Serious radio (When you listen to what is plays, you ask, "Seriously?"

Two out of four windows still open.

A trunk any elephant would be proud to sport.

A spare tire autographed by Russian astronaut Yuri Gagarin. 

A deflated ego.

A vanity mirror which you can fold down and look into. It then shouts, "It's alive! It's alive".

Two back seats passengers. One of whom says, "I could have been somebody. I could have been a contender. Instead of a bum. Which, let's face it is what I am. It was you Charlie. It was you".  

A hood with no latch. It opens when you turn a crack while it plays a children's tune. Then just before it opens, it says, "Pop goes the weasel"!

A hood ornament shaped like a bowl of Borscht with the phrase, "Arby's Olds: We have the beets"!

The vehicle seats up to thirty seven passengers. Four comfortably.

A glove compartment, filled with three boxes of latex gloves. And a manual entitled, "Roll up your sleeve and bend over". 

A vanity license plate which says, "Vanity of vanities. All is vanity".

A car air freshener shaped like a skunk. With the motto, "Brothers and sisters, let us spray" on the bottom.

A four stemmed lug nut wrench in the luggage compartment.

Last and certainly least, a holder for your coffee mug, and a mug shaped like J. Fred Muggs.

Enoch, Downshifting In A 2000 Technology State of the Art Zone.            

 
 
 
Raven Wing
10.1  Raven Wing  replied to  Enoch @10    4 months ago

jrSmiley_86_smiley_image.gifjrSmiley_86_smiley_image.gif

jrSmiley_13_smiley_image.gifjrSmiley_12_smiley_image.gif

Only you Dear Brother Enoch can come up with a story line like that. Love it!!!!! jrSmiley_15_smiley_image.gif

 
 
 
Enoch
10.1.1  Enoch  replied to  Raven Wing @10.1    4 months ago

Dear Sister Raven Wing: Most delighted you enjoyed it.

You are my room presiding, writing partner, treasured friend and muse.

P&AB.

Enoch (Taking the Metallic Monster Out for a Wheeze).

 
 
 
Raven Wing
10.1.2  Raven Wing  replied to  Enoch @10.1.1    4 months ago

Dear Brother Enoch....All of which are my very great pleasure and honor. jrSmiley_79_smiley_image.gif

 
 
 
MrFrost
10.2  MrFrost  replied to  Enoch @10    4 months ago

That....

Was....

Awesome...

 
 
 
Enoch
10.2.1  Enoch  replied to  MrFrost @10.2    4 months ago

Dear Friend Mr. Frost: Many thanks.

Means a lot coming from someone I respect as much as I do you.

P&AB.

Enoch.

 
 
 
cjcold
10.3  cjcold  replied to  Enoch @10    4 months ago

Mommy told me to never date a girl who had a faster car than mine.

 
 
 
Enoch
10.3.1  Enoch  replied to  cjcold @10.3    4 months ago

Dear Friend CJCold: A mother's wisdom is worth more than its weight in gold.

P&AB.

Enoch.

 
 
 
SteevieGee
11  SteevieGee    4 months ago

My newest vehicle is a 2005.  I don't think it's very smart.  It's a stripped down model with manual windows.  It has four on the floor and a fifth under the seat.

 
 
 
Buzz of the Orient
11.1  Buzz of the Orient  replied to  SteevieGee @11    4 months ago
"...a fifth under the seat." 

jrSmiley_10_smiley_image.gif

 
 
 
SteevieGee
11.1.1  SteevieGee  replied to  Buzz of the Orient @11.1    4 months ago

OK...  I was lying about the four on the floor part.

 
 
 
Sunshine
12  Sunshine    4 months ago

Soon your car will report your speeding to the police.  

 
 
 
†hε pε⊕pレε'š ƒïšh
12.1  †hε pε⊕pレε'š ƒïšh  replied to  Sunshine @12    4 months ago

My new demo (2019 Silverado) projects the speed and the speed limit on the windshield. i paced the sheriff the other day going 15 miles over the speed limit and when i pulled even at a light i told him to slow down.

I don't think he was amused.

 
 
 
Bob Nelson
12.2  Bob Nelson  replied to  Sunshine @12    4 months ago

That's been technically possible for a long time. As has been the limiting of speed to what is posted.

The lobby for such measures is hard to find.

 
 
 
Sunshine
12.2.1  Sunshine  replied to  Bob Nelson @12.2    4 months ago
That's been technically possible for a long time.

Oh, well I have no back up camera and still play CD's.

 
 
 
1stwarrior
12.2.2  1stwarrior  replied to  Sunshine @12.2.1    4 months ago

No 8 Track???

 
 
 
†hε pε⊕pレε'š ƒïšh
12.2.3  †hε pε⊕pレε'š ƒïšh  replied to  1stwarrior @12.2.2    4 months ago

In the 90's we traded for a 76 Chevrolet Malibu that had an 8-track in it and the front driver's seat had a lever that swung the seat to curbside. Obviously if you were pimped out in your leisure suit with platform shoes on at the disco and valet parking, it was a must.

We went ahead and destroyed the car jumping it off display ramps.

 
 
 
MrFrost
12.2.4  MrFrost  replied to  Sunshine @12.2.1    4 months ago
Oh, well I have no back up camera and still play CD's.

I have the back up camera...took a little bit to get used to it. But yea, no cd's. Sirus, bluetooth, usb.. 

 
 
 
MrFrost
12.2.5  MrFrost  replied to  1stwarrior @12.2.2    4 months ago
No 8 Track???

I seriously, no joke, still have an 8-track for a car. It was my older brothers, he was going to throw it away so I threw it in a box and for some weird reason, I still have it. I even have AC/DC Powerage on 8-track. 

 
 
 
epistte
12.3  epistte  replied to  Sunshine @12    4 months ago
Soon your car will report your speeding to the police.  

They can also report you to your insurance company. Cha-ching........... Higher rates.

 
 
 
Ronin2
12.4  Ronin2  replied to  Sunshine @12    4 months ago

I will need to give up driving forever.

 
 
 
Sunshine
13  Sunshine    4 months ago
My new demo (2019 Silverado) projects the speed and the speed limit on the windshield.

That is pretty cool...

 
 
 
†hε pε⊕pレε'š ƒïšh
13.1  †hε pε⊕pレε'š ƒïšh  replied to  Sunshine @13    4 months ago

It's fine unless you've been drinking, then it gets distracting.

jrSmiley_88_smiley_image.gif

 
 
 
Raven Wing
14  Raven Wing    4 months ago

My only car is a 1997 Ford Taurus GL. It has seen me through think and thin, ice and snow, rain and sleet. It gets great gas mileage and is low maintenance. I bought it in 1998, and at this point it is likely to be the last car I will ever own for the rest of my driving life. 

When I bought it it had 38,888 miles on it, and today it only has a little over 90,000 miles.

My 'Belle' is like an Energizer Bunny, it just keeps going and going and going......

 
 
 
Enoch
14.1  Enoch  replied to  Raven Wing @14    4 months ago

Dear Sister Raven Wing: 140,000 on the Oldsmo-Buick here. 

Its a road warrior on the NYS Thruway.

It is faster than a speeding bullet.

More powerful than a Shofar Salami.

It's a bird.

It's a plane.

Splat.

A bird dropped something on the roof!

It's Super Enochobile.

These days its an open question as to which of us, the vehicle or me will rust out first.

Either way. both will most probably pass annual inspection this December.

P&AB.

Enoch.    

 
 
 
Raven Wing
14.1.1  Raven Wing  replied to  Enoch @14.1    4 months ago

LOL!! Dear Brother Enoch, you are certainly on a roll today!jrSmiley_10_smiley_image.gif

Each time I have to have the car smogged the guy at the shop looks askance and chuckles at the idea that it will pass. But, pass it still does.

Like me, it gets a bit of a hitch in its get-along from time to time, but, nothing major thus far. jrSmiley_91_smiley_image.gif

 
 
 
Enoch
14.1.2  Enoch  replied to  Raven Wing @14.1.1    4 months ago

LOL!

You are on fire tonight.

Good show dear sister.

E.

 
 
 
MrFrost
14.2  MrFrost  replied to  Raven Wing @14    4 months ago
My only car is a 1997 Ford Taurus GL

My neighbor has a 1997 Ford Clitoris GL.. She doesn't drive it much but it's a solid vehicle. 

 
 
 
Enoch
14.2.1  Enoch  replied to  MrFrost @14.2    4 months ago

Winks.

E.

 
 
 
MrFrost
15  MrFrost    4 months ago

"CHECK ENGINE LIGHT, OFF!!!!!!"

Nope. Would be a nice feature though. 

 
 
 
Enoch
15.1  Enoch  replied to  MrFrost @15    4 months ago

My GPS says things like, "You get get there from here"!

Or:

"Make a series of rights, lefts, gong straight. I really don't care".

E.

 
 
 
Enoch
15.1.1  Enoch  replied to  Enoch @15.1    4 months ago

Corrections: "You can't get there from here".

"Make a series of rights, lefts and going straight ahead. I really don't care".

Enoch, Turning the Spellcheck button off.  

 
 
 
TᵢG
16  TᵢG    4 months ago

It is only going to get worse.   Today, we tether our smart phones to our smart cars to gain really cool, convenient functionality like being able to talk to our steering wheel to send a text to a contact.   To get the cool functionality we necessarily lose privacy and expose our transactions to an unknown context.

We will continue to engage in practices like this and will produce a data stream that will boggle our minds.   AI (machine learning and data science) will digest these massive amounts of data and grow increasingly intelligent about consumers and ways to influence our behavior.

Sorry to say, but I think this is exactly what is happening.

 
 
 
Enoch
16.1  Enoch  replied to  TᵢG @16    4 months ago

Dear Friend TiG: I concur.

In our lifetime we have seen the rise of smart phones, smart homes, smart cars; smart this and that.

We have also since the advent of movies with titles like, "Ernest Scared Stupid", "Dumber and Dumber" and "Legally Blond". 

Coincidence?

I am no longer sure.

P&AB.

Enoch.

 
 
 
sandy-2021492
16.2  sandy-2021492  replied to  TᵢG @16    4 months ago

I had a new server installed at my office last week.  The IT guy told me about his trouble with a flood at his house - while he was on vacation, the inlet valve to a toilet broke, and flooded several floors.  Being a techy sort of guy, he had some moisture sensors installed, and a ball valve at the main water shutoff, and programmed his Alexa to turn off the water if the moisture sensors trip.  I'm not crazy about the idea of having an Alexa, due to the privacy issues, but I have to admit, have her turn the water off in that situation sounds like a good idea.

 
 
 
TᵢG
16.2.1  TᵢG  replied to  sandy-2021492 @16.2    4 months ago

You do not need Alexa (echo) for that.   You just need a smart device controller like SmartThings or Wink and the appropriate (compatible) sensors.

 
 
 
†hε pε⊕pレε'š ƒïšh
16.2.2  †hε pε⊕pレε'š ƒïšh  replied to  TᵢG @16.2.1    4 months ago

Alexa is great for threesomes without the guilt or jealousy.

 
 
 
sandy-2021492
16.2.3  sandy-2021492  replied to  TᵢG @16.2.1    4 months ago

Do they record conversations?

 
 
 
 
TᵢG
16.2.5  TᵢG  replied to  sandy-2021492 @16.2.3    4 months ago
Do they record conversations?

No, they are programmatic controllers.   The have a smartphone app that allows you to install devices and control what they do.   However the devices you own and what they do certainly is knowable by the vendor.

 
 
 
MrFrost
17  MrFrost    4 months ago

All this amazing technology and still nothing to suck the farts out of the seats. 

 
 
 
†hε pε⊕pレε'š ƒïšh
17.1  †hε pε⊕pレε'š ƒïšh  replied to  MrFrost @17    4 months ago

Tesla has a fart app. So you can frame your Mother in law.

This is what they do with the government subsidies.

 
 
 
lady in black
18  lady in black    4 months ago

Luckily my 2009 Silverado with 69,000 miles on it doesn't have the newer technology, I'm safe for now but totally screwed when I have to buy a new vehicle.  I plan to run the truck into the ground before I have to take on a car payment.

 
 
 
Tacos!
19  Tacos!    4 months ago

I wonder if it knows I eat fast food and steer with my knees.

 
 
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