1 IN 5 AMERICANS SAY IT IS OK TO REFUSE JEWS BUSINESS SERVICE – SURVEY

  
Via:  buzz-of-the-orient  •  3 weeks ago  •  80 comments

1 IN 5 AMERICANS SAY IT IS OK TO REFUSE JEWS BUSINESS SERVICE – SURVEY

S E E D E D   C O N T E N T


1 IN 5 AMERICANS SAY IT IS OK TO REFUSE JEWS BUSINESS SERVICE – SURVEY

Of those questioned 19% felt it was permissible to discriminate against Jewish people when providing a product or service.

BY ALEX WINSTON, JERUSALEM POST, JUNE 26, 2019

413783

Survey (Illustrative). (photo credit: INGIMAGE)

A new survey published this week by the Public Religion Research Institute (PRRI) has shown a rise over the past five years in the percentage of Americans who believe it is acceptable for a small business owner to refuse service to Jews if doing so would violate their religious beliefs. 

Of those questioned, 19% felt it was permissible to discriminate against Jewish people when providing a product or service.>
This is 7% rise from the 2014 survey, when 12% thought it was acceptable.


When questioned about political affiliation, data showed that Republicans are most likely to support this sort of service refusal, with 24%, compared to Democrats (17%) and independents (16%). 

This again marks an increase from 2014, when only 16% of Republicans and 9% of Democrats agreed.

Support for religious-based service refusals has also increased among most religious groups since 2014. 


Numbers among those who identified as white evangelical Protestants doubled from 12% to 24%, and Catholics also saw a rise from 10% in 2014 to 20% in 2019.


The largest increase was among white mainline Protestants, up 26% from 11%.

The survey also showed that support has increased across all ages since 2014. 


The survey was conducted throughout the United Sates and over one thousand people were questioned. The data collected was then weighted to provide a national representation.

Those interviewed were questioned about a number of different sexual, religious and ethnic groups. 


Jews, Muslims, African-Americans, those in the LGBT community and transgender people all saw a rise in the percentages of those who find it acceptable to refuse them service based on religious grounds.  

The margin of error for the survey is +/- 3.5 percentage points.

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Buzz of the Orient
1  seeder  Buzz of the Orient    3 weeks ago

And the beat goes on......and UP.

 
 
 
evilgenius
2  evilgenius    3 weeks ago

This is horrible but not surprising. It's one reason I don't support the GoP lead right to discriminate laws under the guise of religious freedom. Open the door to discriminate against one group and this Pandora's Box of filth comes spewing out.

 
 
 
Buzz of the Orient
3  seeder  Buzz of the Orient    3 weeks ago

What religion would consider it against their religious beliefs to do business with Jews?  You don't need 3 guesses or multiple choice for that one.

 
 
 
Split Personality
3.1  Split Personality  replied to  Buzz of the Orient @3    3 weeks ago
What religion would consider it against their religious beliefs to do business with Jews?  You don't need 3 guesses or multiple choice for that one.

Well it isn't Muslims according to your own seed.

Since they only represent 1.1% of the US population ( including children ) would you like to guess again?

IF the poll is accurate ( which I certainly hope it isn't ) it is just the natural expectation from these religious freedom people

( and SCOTUS rulings ) that say bakers can refuse service to others based on their "religious beliefs".

26% of Protestants indicated they believe it is acceptable for a small business owner to refuse service to Jews if doing so would violate their religious beliefs.

The largest political affiliation was Republicans at 24%.

While on cannot be surprised by the implications in the era of no political correctness,

in the end, this is just another hair on fire poll of 1,000 Americans that doesn't mean shit.

 
 
 
Trout Giggles
3.1.1  Trout Giggles  replied to  Split Personality @3.1    3 weeks ago

I really don't see how any Christian could possibly discriminate against Jews based on their religious beliefs. Their whole religion is based on a Jewish man

 
 
 
livefreeordie
3.1.2  livefreeordie  replied to  Trout Giggles @3.1.1    3 weeks ago

There is NO biblical basis to discriminate against Jews by Christians. In fact it would be a sin

“For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ, for it is the power of God to salvation for everyone who believes, for the Jew first and also for the Greek.”   Romans 1:16 

“Christian brothers, the desire of my heart and my prayer to God is that the Jews might be saved from the punishment of sin. I know about them. They have a strong desire for God, but they do not know what they should about Him. Christian brothers, I want you to understand this truth which is no longer a secret. It will keep you from thinking you are so wise. Some Jews have become hard until the right amount of people who are not Jews come to God. Then all the Jews will be saved, as the Holy Writings say, “The One Who saves from the punishment of sin will come out of Jerusalem. He will turn the Jews from doing sinful things.” “And this is My promise to them when I take away their sins.”   Romans 10:1-2,11:25-27

 
 
 
devangelical
3.1.3  devangelical  replied to  livefreeordie @3.1.2    3 weeks ago

right. convert or die happens later on.

 
 
 
livefreeordie
3.1.4  livefreeordie  replied to  devangelical @3.1.3    3 weeks ago

There is no verse in the Bible calling for Christians to kill anyone who doesn’t come to Christ

 
 
 
epistte
3.1.5  epistte  replied to  livefreeordie @3.1.4    3 weeks ago
There is no verse in the Bible calling for Christians to kill anyone who doesn’t come to Christ

 Deuteronomy 13:6

If your very own brother, or your son or daughter, or the wife you love, or your closest friend secretly entices you, saying, “Let us go and worship other gods” (gods that neither you nor your ancestors have known, gods of the peoples around you, whether near or far, from one end of the land to the other), do not yield to them or listen to them. Show them no pity. Do not spare them or shield them. You must certainly put them to death. Your hand must be the first in putting them to death, and then the hands of all the people. 10 Stone them to death, because they tried to turn you away from the Lord your God, who brought you out of Egypt, out of the land of slavery. 11 Then all Israel will hear and be afraid, and no one among you will do such an evil thing again.
 
 
 
Buzz of the Orient
3.1.6  seeder  Buzz of the Orient  replied to  epistte @3.1.5    3 weeks ago

Are you TRYING to be misleading?  lifefreeordie was speaking of Christians and Jesus, and you quote from the Old Testament that WAY predated Jesus.

 
 
 
livefreeordie
3.1.7  livefreeordie  replied to  epistte @3.1.5    3 weeks ago

It is directed at ONLY the Jews AND it has nothing to do with conversions to the Jewish faith.

 
 
 
Dulay
3.1.8  Dulay  replied to  Buzz of the Orient @3.1.6    3 weeks ago

So does that mean that as a Jew you agree that you haven't been saved from doing sinful things? 

 
 
 
epistte
3.1.9  epistte  replied to  livefreeordie @3.1.7    3 weeks ago
It is directed at ONLY the Jews AND it has nothing to do with conversions to the Jewish faith.

Is that verse not in the bible?

 Does all of the Old Testament not apply to Chritians, or just the parts that you agree with?

 

 
 
 
Perrie Halpern R.A.
3.1.10  Perrie Halpern R.A.  replied to  epistte @3.1.5    3 weeks ago

Deuteronomy 13:6 is the OT otherwise known as the Torah. I doubt Jews would be calling for their death. 

Here is what it means:

Deuteronomy looks toward Israel’s life in the land of Israel, where a society pursuing justice and righteousness, living in harmony with God and enjoying His bounty, can be established (Deuteronomy 4:5‑8, 7:12‑13). The promise of this land is conditional (Deuteronomy 11:8‑9, 21); Israel’s welfare depends on maintaining a society governed by God’s social and religious laws. These laws are a divine gift to Israel, unparalleled in their justice and their ability to secure God’s closeness (Deuteronomy 4:5‑8). The Torah’s humanitarianism is most developed in Deuteronomy’s concern for the welfare of the poor and disadvantaged.

https://www.myjewishlearning.com/article/deuteronomy/

 
 
 
Buzz of the Orient
3.1.11  seeder  Buzz of the Orient  replied to  Split Personality @3.1    3 weeks ago

I can understand why it would be against Muslim beliefs to do business with a Jew because there are verses in the Koran about relationships with ANY non-Muslims, not just Jews, but I've never heard of any Christian dictates about doing business with Jews.  Can anyone refer to such dictates?

Sometimes there can be misunderstandings.  One of my late father's stories was about an immigrant Jewish woman whose English was not too good, shopping for oranges, and when she was looking them over the grocer asked her if the ones she wanted were for juice.  She was a bit taken aback and replied: "Yes, they are for Jews."  The grocer replied: "Okay, then take these small spotted ones."

 
 
 
Buzz of the Orient
3.1.12  seeder  Buzz of the Orient  replied to  Dulay @3.1.8    3 weeks ago

Who says I'm Jewish?  My avatar?  Maybe I'm a First Nations Canadian.  In any event, with the "sins" I've committed in my lifetime I doubt I would qualify to be saved. 

 
 
 
Buzz of the Orient
3.1.13  seeder  Buzz of the Orient  replied to  Split Personality @3.1    3 weeks ago

IRAQI CLERIC: QURAN FOCUSES ON JEWS SO MUCH BECAUSE THEY ARE OUR SWORN ENEMY WITH WHOM WE CAN NEVER MAKE PEACE

MEMRI, June 2019:

June 16, 2019

Iraqi Cleric Abd Al-Salam Zain Al-Abidin: The Quran Focuses on the Jews So Much Because They Are Our Sworn Enemy with Whom We Can Never Make Peace

Iraqi cleric Abd Al-Salam Zain Al-Abidin said in a June 16, 2019 broadcast on Al-Naeem TV (Iraq) that the Quran focuses on the Jews as much as it does because they are the “sworn enemy” of the Muslims. He explained that this always has and will always be true, and that the Quran discusses the Jews so that Muslims can understand their enemy’s mentality and so that Muslims know that the Jews are permanent and “recalcitrant” enemy with whom peace agreements cannot be made and who will never be satisfied with concessions.

Abd Al-Salam Zain Al-Abidin: “Why does the Quran focus on the Jews? First of all, because they are [our] sworn enemy. The Jews… [The Quran says:] ‘You shall find the people strongest in enmity towards the believers to be the Jews.’ This was true in the past, it is true today, and it will continue to be true in the future.

“The Quran focuses on the Jews for two reasons. First of all, in order for you to know your enemy’s mentality. Second, you must know that this is not a temporary enemy with whom we can sign a peace agreement – the Oslo Accords, or whatever… No! This is a recalcitrant and experienced enemy. No matter how many concessions you make to this enemy, they will remain recalcitrant and stubborn.”

 
 
 
livefreeordie
3.1.14  livefreeordie  replied to  epistte @3.1.9    3 weeks ago

I have explained this to you on multiple occasions. 

Christians are dead to the OT Law of Moses and alive to the New Covenant in Christ. We are called to higher righteousness than that of the 10 commandments and the rest of the Torah.

Jesus said:   “The law and the prophets were until John. Since that time the kingdom of God has been preached, and everyone is pressing into it. Luke 16:16

Romans 7:4-6

 4 Therefore, my brethren, you also have become dead to the law through the body of Christ, that you may be married to another—to Him who was raised from the dead, that we should bear fruit to God. 5 For when we were in the flesh, the sinful passions which were aroused by the law were at work in our members to bear fruit to death. 6 But now we have been delivered from the law, having died to what we were held by, so that we should serve in the newness of the Spirit and not in the oldness of the letter.

Hebrews 8:7-13

7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, then no place would have been sought for a second. 8 Because finding fault with them, He says: “Behold, the days are coming, says the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah— 9 not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they did not continue in My covenant, and I disregarded them, says the Lord. 10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the Lord: I will put My laws in their mind and write them on their hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people. 11 None of them shall teach his neighbor, and none his brother, saying, ‘Know the Lord,’ for all shall know Me, from the least of them to the greatest of them. 12 For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their lawless deeds I will remember no more.”

13 In that He says, “A new covenant,” He has made the first obsolete. Now what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away.

And it is yet far more evident if, in the likeness of Melchizedek, there arises another priest who has come, not according to the law of a fleshly commandment, but according to the power of an endless life. For He testifies: “You  are  a priest forever According to the order of Melchizedek.” For on the one hand there is an annulling of the former commandment because of its weakness and unprofitableness, for the law made nothing perfect; on the other hand, there is the bringing in of a better hope, through which we draw near to God.

Hebrews 7:15-19 

“For the law, having a shadow of the good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with these same sacrifices, which they offer continually year by year, make those who approach perfect. then He said, “Behold, I have come to do Your will,  O God.” He takes away the first that He may establish the second.”   Hebrews 10:1,9

Galatians 3:19-25

“But before faith came, we were kept under guard by the law, kept for the faith which would afterward be revealed.  Therefore the law was our tutor to bring us to Christ, that we might be justified by faith.  But after faith has come, we are no longer under a tutor.”

Galatians 3:23-25

Tell me, you who desire to be under the law, do you not hear the law? For it is written that Abraham had two sons: the one by a bondwoman, the other by a freewoman. But he who was of the bondwoman was born according to the flesh, and he of the freewoman through promise, which things are symbolic. For these are the two covenants: the one from Mount Sinai which gives birth to bondage, which is Hagar— for this Hagar is Mount Sinai in Arabia, and corresponds to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children—  but the Jerusalem above is free, which is the mother of us all. For it is written:

“Rejoice, O barren,
You who do not bear!
Break forth and shout,
You who are not in labor!
For the desolate has many more children
Than she who has a husband.”

Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are children of promise. But, as he who was born according to the flesh then persecuted him who was born according to the Spirit, even so it is now. Nevertheless what does the Scripture say? “Cast out the bondwoman and her son, for the son of the bondwoman shall not be heir with the son of the freewoman.”  So then, brethren, we are not children of the bondwoman but of the free.”

Galatians 4:21-31

And importantly at the Council of Jerusalem (Acts 15:22-29)

Then it pleased the apostles and elders, with the whole church, to send chosen men of their own company to Antioch with Paul and Barnabas, namely, Judas who was also named Barsabas, and Silas, leading men among the brethren.

 They wrote this letter by them:

The apostles, the elders, and the brethren,

To the brethren who are of the Gentiles in Antioch, Syria, and Cilicia:

Greetings.

Since we have heard that some who went out from us have troubled you with words, unsettling your souls, saying, “You must be circumcised and keep the law” —to whom we gave no such commandmentit seemed good to us, being assembled with one accord, to send chosen men to you with our beloved Barnabas and Paul, men who have risked their lives for the name of our Lord Jesus Christ. We have therefore sent Judas and Silas, who will also report the same things by word of mouth.  For it seemed good to the Holy Spirit, and to us, to lay upon you no greater burden than these necessary things: that you abstain from things offered to idols, from blood, from things strangled, and Fromm sexual immorality.  If you keep yourselves from these, you will do well.

Farewell.

 
 
 
Dulay
3.1.15  Dulay  replied to  Buzz of the Orient @3.1.12    3 weeks ago
Who says I'm Jewish?

You have in a previous comment Buzz. 

 
 
 
JBB
3.1.16  JBB  replied to  Dulay @3.1.15    3 weeks ago

Perrie thinks Buzz is Jewish but I've only seen Buzz evade the subject.

He has implied that he was by invoking his children but never himself...

Like Christians, there are cultural Jews who do not practice their faith.

 
 
 
JBB
3.1.17  JBB  replied to  livefreeordie @3.1.14    3 weeks ago

Yet, the Christian Bible does include exhortations to kill the unfaithful...

 
 
 
livefreeordie
3.1.18  livefreeordie  replied to  JBB @3.1.17    3 weeks ago

Absolutely false.  Cite the verse(s)

i have a degree in theology and have taught the Bible for nearly 40 years. There are no such verses.

 
 
 
katrix
3.1.19  katrix  replied to  livefreeordie @3.1.18    3 weeks ago

If by unfaithful you mean adulterers ... the bible clearly calls for adulterers to be stoned. Of course it also commands men (presumably married adults) to rape the women of enemy tribes, which is adultery - but for men, the bible usually thinks adultery is just fine.

 
 
 
katrix
3.1.20  katrix  replied to  livefreeordie @3.1.18    3 weeks ago

For someone with a theology degree, you apparently never studied the contradictions in the bible, as my mom did when she became ordained. The bible does say adulterers should be stoned; Jesus said whoever among you hasn't sinned should cast the first stone. Funny how most of Jesus' followers these days don't follow his example, and display hatred towards people who commit the sins which offend them the most - generally related to sex.

 
 
 
livefreeordie
3.1.21  livefreeordie  replied to  katrix @3.1.20    3 weeks ago

Aagain, as I cited in 3.1.14,  the Torah does not apply to Christians.

the passage you cite with Jesus and the prostitute was to Jews about the requirements of the Torah in not carrying out such a stoning without two or three witnesses. It also required stoning the man involved which He knew was most likely one of them

Your example this still does not refute what I said.

as to the phony contradictions charge. I’ve been studying the Bible for nearly 60 years including the Greek, Hebrew and Aramaic texts. I’ve yet to find a contradiction when you examine it properly and using sound hermeneutic principles.  In nearly all cases, these supposed contradictions are poor translation choices.

 
 
 
livefreeordie
3.1.22  livefreeordie  replied to  katrix @3.1.19    3 weeks ago

The teachings of Jesus and the Apostles say no such thing.

 
 
 
katrix
3.1.23  katrix  replied to  livefreeordie @3.1.22    3 weeks ago

That's funny - my bible includes the Old Testament. Perhaps you belong to a religion which invented its own bible?

 
 
 
katrix
3.1.24  katrix  replied to  livefreeordie @3.1.21    3 weeks ago
In nearly all cases, these supposed contradictions are poor translation choices.

Yeah, right. Spoken like a true apologist.

 
 
 
katrix
3.1.25  katrix  replied to  JBB @3.1.17    3 weeks ago

Not to mention, Jesus specifically said he came to uphold the law ... another one of those "non existent" contradictions.

Interesting that we can apparently discount anything Moses did or said, including the Ten Commandments, because the "true bible" only consists of the NT.

And hilarious how all these fundamentalist Christians claim that they alone have the proper interpretation of the bible, and all the other Christians are wrong.  It's so arrogant and so ridiculous, and so prideful (hello, pride is a sin). Anyone with a lick of sense would realize that they could be wrong, and their interpretation is just that - their own interpretation.

 
 
 
Split Personality
3.1.26  Split Personality  replied to  Buzz of the Orient @3.1.13    3 weeks ago

What does that have to do with a survey of Americans religious attitudes towards minorities?

Again, the seed is about a survey of Americans, no Iraqi clerics.

 
 
 
Trout Giggles
3.1.27  Trout Giggles  replied to  katrix @3.1.25    3 weeks ago

Ok....so if we can discount the OT....then why do so many Christians want the 10 Commandments posted everywhere? Those aren't in the NT. The Beatitudes are, tho. Those are a lot nicer than the 10 Commandments

 
 
 
sandy-2021492
3.1.28  sandy-2021492  replied to  Split Personality @3.1.26    3 weeks ago

I'm seeing a pattern here.

 
 
 
livefreeordie
3.1.29  livefreeordie  replied to  katrix @3.1.23    3 weeks ago

Why is the OT in the Christian Bible

It’s included for several reasons, none of which is about Christians obeying the Torah

As Paul states to the Corinthians

“Look at what happened to them as an example; it’s right there in the Scriptures so that we won’t make the same mistakes and hunger after evil as they did.”   1 Corinthians 10:6 

The Torah and the books like Chronicles, Kings, and Samuel give Christians the history of God’s relationship with Israel. They also are part of revealing God’s nature in responding to human behavior

the prophetic writings show God fulfilling what He promises and some still remain to be fulfilled with Israel

the Psalms are daily inspiration to the intimacy of a relationship with God

and as Jesus declared, all of them speak about Him and His coming.

but as Jesus and the Apostles clearly stated, they are obsolete in terms of the New Covenant relationship established by the Cross and the Resurrection.   

If someone seeks to be right with God after accepting Christ by following the Law actually gives up their salvation

“You, and anyone else who seeks to be on the right side of God through the law, have effectively been cut off from the Anointed, circumcised from grace, and cast off from the favor of God.”

Galatians 5:4 

 
 
 
livefreeordie
3.1.30  livefreeordie  replied to  katrix @3.1.25    3 weeks ago

Jesus did not say He came to uphold the Law of Moses. He said He came to complete or fulfill the requirements of the Law

The Greek word in that passage is plēroō

It means to complete, fulfill, satisfy the requirements

“Don’t think that I have come to abolish the Torah or the Prophets. I have come not to abolish but to complete.”

Matthew 5:17 (Messianic Jewish Bible)

It is why Jesus states on the Cross

“A jug of sour wine was standing by. Someone put a sponge soaked with the wine on a javelin and lifted it to his mouth. After he took the wine, Jesus said, “It’s done. . . complete.” Bowing his head, he offered up his spirit.”   John 19:29 

Affirmed by the Apostles at the Council of Jerusalem in 48AD

“We are aware that some have come to you from the church of Jerusalem. These men were not sent by us, but came with false teachings that have brought confusion and division, telling you to keep the law and be circumcised—things we never commanded them to teach. So after deliberation, we’re sending you our beloved brothers Paul and Barnabas, who have risked their lives for the glory of the name of our Lord Jesus, the Anointed One. They are accompanied by Judas and Silas, whom we have unanimously chosen to send as our representatives to you. They will validate all that we’re wanting to share with you. “For it pleases the Holy Spirit and us that we not place any unnecessary burden on you, except for the following restrictions: Stay away from anything sacrificed to a pagan idol, from eating what is strangled or with any blood, and from any form of sexual immorality. You will be beautiful believers if you keep your souls from these things, and you will be true and faithful to our Lord Jesus. May God bless you!”

Acts 15:24-29

 
 
 
Buzz of the Orient
3.1.31  seeder  Buzz of the Orient  replied to  Split Personality @3.1.26    3 weeks ago

The Koran is the bible of all Muslims, even American ones, and what the Iman pointed out has also been pointed out by American Imams, and that is hatred for the Jews. Here are some verses from the Koran for you to ponder:

The hour will not be established until you fight the Jews, and the stone and the tree behind which a Jew will be hiding will say: “O Muslim! O Servant of Allah, there is a Jew hiding behind me, so come and kill him."

“Strongest among men in enmity to the believers wilt thou find the Jews…” (5:82).

“Curses were pronounced on those among the Children of Israel who rejected Faith, by the tongue of David and of Jesus the son of Mary: because they disobeyed and persisted in excesses.” (5:78).

“Is it ever so that when they make a covenant a party of them set it aside? The truth is, most of them believe not. And when there came to them a messenger from Allah [Muhammad], confirming what was with them [the Torah], a party of the people of the Book threw away the Book of Allah behind their backs, as if (it had been something) they did not know!” (2:100-101).

“The People of the Book know well that that is the truth from their Lord. Nor is Allah unmindful of what they do” (2:143-144).

“Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued” (9:29).

“And the Jews say: Ezra is the son of Allah, and the Christians say: The Messiah is the son of Allah. That is their saying with their mouths. They imitate the saying of those who disbelieved of old. Allah (Himself) fighteth against them. How perverse are they!” (9:30)
 
 
 
Sparty On
4  Sparty On    3 weeks ago

I don't believe this poll at all.

That would mean about 70 million people in the US feel this way.   No doubt many do feel this way but 20%?

I don't buy it.   Not from what i've seen and experienced anyway.

 
 
 
evilgenius
4.1  evilgenius  replied to  Sparty On @4    3 weeks ago
No doubt many do feel this way but 20%?

The alt+right has a strong core of about 17%. It has polled as low as 13% and as high as 23%. These are the people that keep looking for excuses to discriminate and put their version of religion in front of everything.

 
 
 
Sparty On
4.1.1  Sparty On  replied to  evilgenius @4.1    3 weeks ago

So this is all the alt right eh?

 
 
 
evilgenius
4.1.2  evilgenius  replied to  Sparty On @4.1.1    3 weeks ago
So this is all the alt right eh?

I don't see anyone else trying to push

their religious beliefs

into the secular world of everyday business.

 
 
 
Sparty On
4.1.3  Sparty On  replied to  evilgenius @4.1.2    3 weeks ago

Then you aren't looking very hard

 
 
 
Dismayed Patriot
4.1.4  Dismayed Patriot  replied to  Sparty On @4.1.1    3 weeks ago
So this is all the alt right eh?

"data showed that Republicans are most likely to support this sort of service refusal, with 24%"

So a quarter of the 'right' combined with the alt-right seem to be the largest group of anti-Semites. I think the white nationalist, white supremacists, wannabe Nazis and KKK have much deeper roots in the Republican party than the party is willing to admit. I have no doubt it was Trumps anti-immigrant message that got the last hold out confederate Dixiecrats to join the party that once fought the confederacy but is now defending confederate monuments, defending the confederate flag, defending Islamophobia, homophobia and xenophobia, misogyny and sexism as they readily embrace the "deplorable" label offered them.

 
 
 
MrFrost
4.1.5  MrFrost  replied to  evilgenius @4.1.2    3 weeks ago

I think Sparty is pointing out that there are Democrats that are anti-Semites, which is true. Antisemitism is certainly more right wing than left, no doubt of it, but it's not an exclusive club either. 

 
 
 
Sparty On
4.1.6  Sparty On  replied to  Dismayed Patriot @4.1.4    3 weeks ago

Wasn't talking to you but okay.   Here ya go:

http://www.thetower.org/article/who-is-behind-anti-semitic-attacks-in-the-u-s/

To highlight a key point of the article:

The largest known perpetrator group for both years was white Americans, but they still only accounted for 14 percent of the total in 2014 and 17 percent in 2015.

That leaves over 80% of those crimes likely being committed by some group other than white Americans.    For example, I highly doubt that some Muslim communities in the US are significantly different from the ones in Europe where anti-Semitic behavior is a well known problem.   So a big chunk of the problem is likely Muslim.

So it appears that the data available does not agree that all these types of hate crimes are alt right.   They are the single biggest group by percentage but are  clearly not committing the majority of those crime.   Not when more than 80% are not known to be committed by them.   Thats my point here.   There are plenty of other groups spreading anti semtism around in the US that aren't white, alt right or whatever label you want to hang out there on a shingle.   Interestingly we rarely see the left here go after any group other than those known to be white.   I find that disingenuous as hell when it comes to this conversation.

You keep rationalizing unprovable concepts that support your narrative.   I'll keep dealing in facts. 

 
 
 
Sparty On
4.1.7  Sparty On  replied to  MrFrost @4.1.5    3 weeks ago

Exactly.   Thank you.

 
 
 
Dismayed Patriot
4.1.8  Dismayed Patriot  replied to  Sparty On @4.1.6    3 weeks ago
That leaves over 80% of those crimes likely being committed by some group other than white Americans.

From your link:

Of offenders who committed the 695 anti-Semitic hate crime offenses in 2015, some information was available on the race of 373 and the ethnicity of 82; there was no information on those who committed the other 322 offenses. The breakdown was as follows:

Race 2014 2015
White 87 121
Black 20 31
Asian 4 2
Hawaiian/Pacific Islander 1 0
Multi-race 10 8
Unknown race 231 211

So of those whose race was known, in 2014 71% of anti-Semitic attacks were committed by white Americans (87 out of 122). The other 231 attacks the race was not known, so they could have been all white or they could have been any other ethnicity, no one knows. But if you accept the fact that of the known ethnicity white Americans were 71% then it would be reasonable to assume that approximately 71% of the unknown ethnicities would likely be white Americans. That means it would be reasonable to assume that in 2014 there were 251 anti-Semitic attacks committed by white Americans (87+164 which is 71% of 231).

 
 
 
Sparty On
4.1.9  Sparty On  replied to  Dismayed Patriot @4.1.8    3 weeks ago

Ah fun with math and statistics i see.

Again rationalize whatever you want to.   The fact remains, based on the known data, it IS NOT a known majority and more implicitly it was not ALL of them like what i was originally responding to that wasn't you.   Those 231 and 211 attacks could have just as easily been any other race as they were white.   You don't get to cherry-pick those out.   Not if you want to be reasonable

Your reasoning is clearly flawed by your biases.   Don't bother arguing about that   I see no out for you in that regard.

 
 
 
Jack_TX
4.1.10  Jack_TX  replied to  evilgenius @4.1    3 weeks ago
The alt+right has a strong core of about 17%.

That just seems implausible to me.

 
 
 
evilgenius
4.1.11  evilgenius  replied to  MrFrost @4.1.5    3 weeks ago
I think Sparty is pointing out that there are Democrats that are anti-Semites, which is true.

There would almost have to be some, but I have never heard of any pushing for discrimination based on religious freedom. I am well aware of what people say out loud and what someone may click on in an anonymous poll too. 

 
 
 
WallyW
4.1.12  WallyW  replied to  evilgenius @4.1    3 weeks ago
The alt+right has a strong core of about 17%.
First of all, define what you mean by- "alt-right". The term is too vague and ambiguous.
Then, please provide a source for the above statement.

 
 
 
WallyW
4.1.13  WallyW  replied to  Dismayed Patriot @4.1.8    3 weeks ago

What about Muslims?

 
 
 
Buzz of the Orient
4.2  seeder  Buzz of the Orient  replied to  Sparty On @4    3 weeks ago

The Jerusalem Post doesn't publish fake news - it is ranked as "Least Biased" by Media Bias Fact Check.

 
 
 
Sparty On
4.2.1  Sparty On  replied to  Buzz of the Orient @4.2    3 weeks ago

I didn't say it was fake news.   I said i found it hard to believe.    Not from my experience.

Big difference Buzz.

 
 
 
MrFrost
4.2.2  MrFrost  replied to  Sparty On @4.2.1    3 weeks ago
I said i found it hard to believe.

Agreed. While antisemitism is on the rise, I doubt the numbers are as high as those in the article. 

 
 
 
Sparty On
4.2.3  Sparty On  replied to  MrFrost @4.2.2    3 weeks ago

Yeah, maybe i just haven't lived and experienced places that have this problem but i've been around the US a good bit.  

I just haven't seen it.   Not to the percentages they speak of here.   Most Americans are good people.   Don't mess with them and they won't mess with you.   I for one get tired of all Americans getting labeled because of the actions of a few.

 
 
 
Buzz of the Orient
4.2.4  seeder  Buzz of the Orient  replied to  Sparty On @4.2.3    3 weeks ago

It's time they played the movie "Gentleman's Agreement" again, about that quiet, unspoken, genteel antisemitism that is latent but not patent. 

 
 
 
Split Personality
4.2.5  Split Personality  replied to  Buzz of the Orient @4.2.4    3 weeks ago

You can watch "To kill a Mocking bird " again too.

The Jerusalem Post doesn't publish fake news - it is ranked as "Least Biased" by Media Bias Fact Check.

BS.

This poll purportedly exposes the latent feelings of 70 million Americans out of 333 million based on 1000 interviews.

I highly doubt the JP would accept a poll of 64 of their 5.25 million citizens as having any more merit than a poll of

63  residents of Gaza * the West bank ( 5.1 million).

Statistically it's just a stupid poll designed to irritate thinking people.

 
 
 
Buzz of the Orient
4.2.6  seeder  Buzz of the Orient  replied to  Split Personality @4.2.5    3 weeks ago

Back to the movies - I think I recall a movie about the advertising business, and I think it was Broderick Crawford addressing his staff, standing at the head of the table, pounding on the table and shouting: "YOU'VE GOT TO IRRITATE THEM IRRITATE THEM IRRITATE THEM IRRITATE THEM!!!"

Maybe it's the only way to get results.

 
 
 
luther28
5  luther28    3 weeks ago

Kind of falls into my ongoing theorem that 20% of the humans on the planet fall into the category of moronic.

Pathetic but most likely and sadly true.

 
 
 
Sparty On
5.1  Sparty On  replied to  luther28 @5    3 weeks ago

I follow that same rule but its the 10% rule.

10% crackpots on the extreme right and 10% crackpots on the extreme left.

So IMHO it does amount to about 20% total give or take but 20% on both extremes, totaling 40% of our population?

Nah, i don't buy it.   Not in the least.

 
 
 
Perrie Halpern R.A.
6  Perrie Halpern R.A.    3 weeks ago

Truly disturbing. There are moments worldwide that I feel we are going down a familiar path. 

 
 
 
JohnRussell
7  JohnRussell    3 weeks ago

Although it is absolutely wrong for anyone to deny Jews service, this particular situation is not as dire as it looks. Jews were not singled out for denial in this survey, the other groups used in the survey also fared poorly in terms of being discriminated against. 

The survey asked about six different groups. The number is the percentage of Americans who think it is ok to deny service to that group based on the respondent's religious beliefs

Gays and Lesbians   30

Transgender     29

Atheists    24

Muslims   22

Jews    19

African Americans   15

https://www.prri.org/research/increasing-support-for-religiously-based-service-refusals/

There is a base it seems, of people who feels that their religious beliefs allow them to discriminate against other people based on a group trait. 

 
 
 
Perrie Halpern R.A.
7.1  Perrie Halpern R.A.  replied to  JohnRussell @7    3 weeks ago

Well, then I would say that is a big fail among some faiths. 

 
 
 
Dulay
7.1.1  Dulay  replied to  Perrie Halpern R.A. @7.1    3 weeks ago

From the poll:

When it comes to religious affiliation, white Protestants are substantially more likely to support religiously based service refusals. Around four in ten white evangelical Protestants (42%) and slightly fewer white mainline Protestants (37%) say that small businesses should be allowed to refuse products or services to gay or lesbian people if doing so would violate their religious beliefs. Support is lower among Catholics (28%), nonwhite Protestants (26%), and the religiously unaffiliated (22%).

...

Support for these religiously based service refusals has also increased among most major religious groups since 2014. Support for denying service to Jews has roughly doubled among white evangelical Protestants (up to 24% from 12% in 2014), white mainline Protestants (up to 26% from 11%), and Catholics (up to 20% from 10%), while the religiously unaffiliated (11% vs. 11%) and nonwhite Protestants (19% vs. 14%) have remained mostly stable in their attitudes on these issues.
 
 
 
sandy-2021492
7.2  sandy-2021492  replied to  JohnRussell @7    3 weeks ago

I'm not surprised that there are still people who would discriminate on the basis of faith (or race, or sexual orientation), but I am surprised the percentages are that high.

 
 
 
Buzz of the Orient
7.3  seeder  Buzz of the Orient  replied to  JohnRussell @7    3 weeks ago

How did the web site linked by you know I read the linked story?  They wished me a "Good Morning".   At the bottom of their page they wrote:

"Morning Buzz"
.
LOL
 
 
 
JohnRussell
7.3.1  JohnRussell  replied to  Buzz of the Orient @7.3    3 weeks ago
How did the web site linked by you know I read the linked story?

You got me. 

 
 
 
dave-2693993
7.4  dave-2693993  replied to  JohnRussell @7    3 weeks ago
There is a base it seems, of people who feels that their religious beliefs allow them to discriminate against other people based on a group trait. 

Here is a basic fact that most get wrong.

One can be a Jew and not be an adherent of the Jewish faith.

I don't think the pollsters and interpreters ever get that right or ask the question correctly.

 
 
 
Buzz of the Orient
7.4.1  seeder  Buzz of the Orient  replied to  dave-2693993 @7.4    3 weeks ago

Yes, you're speaking of Jews by ancestry, but not by practice.  British Prime Minister Benjamin D'Israeli had to convert to Christianity as it was required to be Prime Minister.  However, he did not forget his ancestry.  Although it may just be a myth, but I loved the story of when he was insulted about his ancestral religion by his nemesis Gladstone, he said: "While your ancestors were painting themselves blue and hiding in caves, mine were priests in the Temple of David."

 
 
 
Tacos!
8  Tacos!    3 weeks ago

Who are they asking? Do any of the respondents fall into one of these groups? Do any of them run a business? Or did they just fill a room with assholes who can't empathize with anyone and never have to interact with someone different from them?

 
 
 
Jack_TX
9  Jack_TX    3 weeks ago

I realize this is an unpopular opinion, but I LOVE it when people deny service for religious reasons.  

That's more business for the rest of us, including my company.

  • Are you gay?  We want your business.
  • Straight?  We want your business.
  • Jewish?  We want your business.
  • Muslim?  We want your business.
  • Black?  We want your business.
  • Mexican? We want your business.

Basically...we want your business. 

Unless you're a Liverpool supporter.  In which case get out and try not to steal anything between here and the front door.

 
 
 
evilgenius
9.1  evilgenius  replied to  Jack_TX @9    3 weeks ago
Unless you're a Liverpool supporter.  In which case get out and try not to steal anything between here and the front door.

Hahahahahaha! 

 
 
 
Sparty On
9.2  Sparty On  replied to  Jack_TX @9    3 weeks ago

Lol my sentiments exactly.  

Not much that will stop us from working for you if you are willing to pay our price.   That however is one big reason.  

Not paying the price.

 
 
 
Jack_TX
9.2.1  Jack_TX  replied to  Sparty On @9.2    3 weeks ago
Lol my sentiments exactly. 

Seriously.  Bin dipping scouse mongrels can f*ck right off back to kop land.  They never walk alone because it's not SAFE to walk alone in that shitho......

Ah.

You weren't actually talking about Liverpool, were you?

 
 
 
Sparty On
9.2.2  Sparty On  replied to  Jack_TX @9.2.1    3 weeks ago

Nah ..... Tottenham is my team ......

 
 
 
MUVA
9.2.3  MUVA  replied to  Sparty On @9.2.2    3 weeks ago

Not any better there is only one great English Club Manchester United.

 
 
 
Perrie Halpern R.A.
9.3  Perrie Halpern R.A.  replied to  Jack_TX @9    3 weeks ago

Good One! 

Manchester United! But I do like Tottenham. 

 
 
 
Thrawn 31
10  Thrawn 31    3 weeks ago

Not surprising. Only natural though, those who discriminate against gays also seem to want to treat Jews the same way.

 
 
 
dave-2693993
11  dave-2693993    3 weeks ago
Of those questioned 19% felt it was permissible to discriminate against Jewish people when providing a product or service.

Or news coverage of the home country.

Actually, in that situation, the number is way too short. Even includes N/A Jews.

 
 
 
Perrie Halpern R.A.
11.1  Perrie Halpern R.A.  replied to  dave-2693993 @11    3 weeks ago
Even includes N/A Jews.

Now you are talking! 

 
 
 
Buzz of the Orient
12  seeder  Buzz of the Orient    3 weeks ago

I think this article has been up long enough, has given everyone a chance to take a shot at it, and is turning into a theological dissertation, so it's time to end it and go on to something new.  Thanks to those of you who have maintained civility throughout.  I'm now locking it for good.

 
 
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