Question For Independents : Are You Considering Voting For Donald Trump In 2020?

  
By:  john-russell  •  6 months ago  •  137 comments

Question For Independents : Are You Considering Voting For Donald Trump In 2020?

The question is really only for independents, but anyone can comment. 

=========================================================

The basis for this question is something I heard on a news show today, the gist of which is  -  the Trump re-election campaign has already decided that their only hope of winning is to make the Democratic nominee seem worse than Trump.  Personally, I don't think that is humanly possible, but alas, they are only going to give me one vote. 

The Trump campaign will allocate untold hundreds of millions of dollars to throwing mud at Trump's election opponent because they know that he does not have a record to run on that will appeal to anyone but his base, which is not going to be enough to get him re-elected. Unless you like right wing judges or large tax breaks for the 1%, Trump's accomplishments in office have been virtually non-existent.  The Trump campaign knows this, and intend to mount the most vicious campaign in US political history. 

Independents, is there any way you could vote for Trump on merit? 


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JohnRussell
1  author  JohnRussell    6 months ago

Never Trump? 

 
 
 
WallyW
1.1  WallyW  replied to  JohnRussell @1    6 months ago

Closer to being an dependent than some might think.....

but, why would I ever vote for any democrat ever again?

Of course, I'll vote for Trump again

 
 
 
Ed-NavDoc
1.2  Ed-NavDoc  replied to  JohnRussell @1    6 months ago

After the less than stellar showing in the 1st two debates, it does not look like the Democrats can field anyone to unite the left against Trump. I am not a big fan of Trump and I did not vote for him the first time. but unless a 3rd party candidate can make a good showing, I might consider voting for him in 2020. Only time will tell.

 
 
 
Ronin2
1.2.1  Ronin2  replied to  Ed-NavDoc @1.2    6 months ago
unless a 3rd party candidate can make a good showing, I might consider voting for him in 2020. 

Agreed.

The time is ripe for a 3rd party candidate to emerge and at least cause a scare to the Establishment parties. Of course I said the same thing in 2016; so what the hell do I know?

If it comes down to Trump and whichever clown escapes the exploding Democratic car of candidates; I will hold my nose and vote for Trump. Really, really hoping Justin Amash, or someone along those lines, runs as an independent.

But the reality is even if a strong third party candidate emerges we will be stuck with Trump; or yet to be decided insane clown democrat.

 
 
 
katrix
1.2.2  katrix  replied to  Ronin2 @1.2.1    6 months ago

The GOP should man up and field some candidates for the primary against Trump.

 
 
 
Galen Marvin Ross
1.2.3  Galen Marvin Ross  replied to  katrix @1.2.2    6 months ago

There is only one Republican with the balls to do that and, that is Bill Weld, The RNC is trying its best to keep him from getting any traction.

 
 
 
Ronin2
1.2.4  Ronin2  replied to  katrix @1.2.2    6 months ago

The only way that Republicans would primary Trump is if they want him to lose. Given the Democrats clown car of candidates running ever further left, that is never going to happen.

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/when-presidents-get-primary-challenges/

 
 
 
Dismayed Patriot
1.3  Dismayed Patriot  replied to  JohnRussell @1    6 months ago

I was an independent as were nearly all my family in Ohio in the 1980's and 90's, though my maternal grandfather and that whole side of the family who were from Arkansas were Democrats up until the late 60's but like many ex-Democrats from that time period most of the family claimed to be "fiercely independent" as they transitioned from their Dixiecrat roots, voted for Reagan and Bush Sr., and now virtually every one of them claim to be staunch Republicans. For me, after moving to California and re-marrying and having kids I went from independent during the 1980's and 90's (didn't vote for Clinton) and switched after the Bush Jr. years registering as a Democrat in 2007 before the 2008 election. No party is perfect, but if we have to pick sides in this polarized environment I'm picking the party that's not supporting a self admitted sexual predator, serial liar and wannabe authoritarian dictator with a room temperature IQ for President.

 
 
 
JohnRussell
1.3.1  author  JohnRussell  replied to  Dismayed Patriot @1.3    6 months ago
a self admitted sexual predator, serial liar and wannabe authoritarian dictator with a room temperature IQ

aw, nobody's perfect. 

 
 
 
cjcold
1.4  cjcold  replied to  JohnRussell @1    5 months ago

I would vote for myself over Trump and I don't even want the job.

 
 
 
cjcold
1.4.1  cjcold  replied to  cjcold @1.4    5 months ago

I am cjcold. please vote for me.

 
 
 
cjcold
1.5  cjcold  replied to  JohnRussell @1    5 months ago

Would rather stab myself in the eyes with a dirty fork than vote for Trump.

 
 
 
TOM PA
2  TOM PA    6 months ago

In a word, "NO!"  

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
3  Vic Eldred    6 months ago

Even democrats know that little seed isn't true. Liberals still have identity politics going for them, but they lost the independents. Nope, democrats are in for another good beating. 

 
 
 
katrix
3.1  katrix  replied to  Vic Eldred @3    6 months ago

They didn't lose this independent as long as Trump is the opposing candidate.

There's a campaign sign near my house - both red and blue - and the candidate is "ANY FUNCTIONING ADULT" - too bad we won't have two of those to choose from.  I don't think there's any way the Dem candidate (or the GOP candidate if they had given enough of a crap about our country to have a primary this election) would be worse than Trump.

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
3.1.1  Vic Eldred  replied to  katrix @3.1    6 months ago

Spoken like a true "Independent"!

 
 
 
cjcold
3.1.2  cjcold  replied to  Vic Eldred @3.1.1    5 months ago

Pretty sure that an independent can't be categorized.

 
 
 
Freedom Warrior
3.1.3  Freedom Warrior  replied to  cjcold @3.1.2    5 months ago

 Not fooling me!

 
 
 
cjcold
3.1.4  cjcold  replied to  Freedom Warrior @3.1.3    5 months ago

Which part?

 
 
 
†hε pε⊕pレε'š ƒïšh
4  †hε pε⊕pレε'š ƒïšh    6 months ago

I'm voting for Hillary, after the disasterous debates the DNC had an emergency meeting and they are bringing in Granny in a 12k Moo Moo!

I'm changing my name like the hoard did back in 2016 badfish "I'm With Her"

jrSmiley_86_smiley_image.gif

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
4.1  Vic Eldred  replied to  †hε pε⊕pレε'š ƒïšh @4    6 months ago

removed for context

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
4.1.1  Vic Eldred  replied to  Vic Eldred @4.1    6 months ago

removed for context

 
 
 
JohnRussell
4.1.2  author  JohnRussell  replied to  Vic Eldred @4.1    6 months ago

Under what possible theory do you think that photo is on topic? Or are you like BF or Trump (who mentioned Hillary eight times in his 2020 candidacy announcement?). 

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
4.1.3  Vic Eldred  replied to  JohnRussell @4.1.2    6 months ago
Under what possible theory do you think that photo is on topic?

Under the theory that somebody raised the prospect of her running again. I didn't initiate it.

 
 
 
Sister Mary Agnes Ample Bottom
4.1.4  Sister Mary Agnes Ample Bottom  replied to  Vic Eldred @4.1    6 months ago

You need some new material, m'dear.

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
4.1.5  Vic Eldred  replied to  Sister Mary Agnes Ample Bottom @4.1.4    6 months ago

For that, I always look to you.

 
 
 
Sister Mary Agnes Ample Bottom
4.1.6  Sister Mary Agnes Ample Bottom  replied to  Vic Eldred @4.1.5    6 months ago
For that, I always look to you.

It's a new month and I have a clean slate I need to dirty up.  Soooooo….Blow it out your bazoo, Jethro.

 
 
 
Dulay
4.1.7  Dulay  replied to  JohnRussell @4.1.2    6 months ago

If you're not going to flag comments, why whine about it? 

 
 
 
JohnRussell
4.1.8  author  JohnRussell  replied to  Dulay @4.1.7    6 months ago

You have an odd definition of whining. 

 
 
 
Dulay
4.1.9  Dulay  replied to  JohnRussell @4.1.8    6 months ago

In this case it means complaining when you are the only one with the ability to DO something about it. 

 
 
 
cjcold
4.1.10  cjcold  replied to  Vic Eldred @4.1.3    5 months ago

Far right wingers can't stop raising the prospect so they can continue to run in circles and scream and shout. Always liked Hillary. She would have made a good president. Putin hated her. That's probably why he spent all of those millions to make sure his butt buddy became the American president.

 
 
 
JBB
4.1.11  JBB  replied to  cjcold @4.1.10    5 months ago

Those who know HRC best describe her as, "A Staid Methodist Matron". My company did a lot of businesses with The Rose Law Firm when I lived in Little Rock back in the late 80s and early 90s. Though Mrs Clinton was not our lawyer within the firm she was always around. My impression, along with all the old school lawyers in town, was that she was exceptionally smart and hard working. Bill was always a rascal and a borderline scoundrel. Being married to Hillary was his saving grace. She would have been rock solid...

 
 
 
cjcold
4.2  cjcold  replied to  †hε pε⊕pレε'š ƒïšh @4    5 months ago

So you wrecked your bicycle and left your helmet at home?

 
 
 
sandy-2021492
5  sandy-2021492    6 months ago

Hell, no.

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
5.1  Vic Eldred  replied to  sandy-2021492 @5    6 months ago

The question was only for Independents

 
 
 
†hε pε⊕pレε'š ƒïšh
5.1.1  †hε pε⊕pレε'š ƒïšh  replied to  Vic Eldred @5.1    6 months ago

Now would be the time for Democrats to beg the most sane prospect, Howard Schultz to run.

Skip the primary and just appoint him. He's actually done something positive with his life and is mentally stable.

 
 
 
sandy-2021492
5.1.2  sandy-2021492  replied to  Vic Eldred @5.1    6 months ago

That's why I answered.  Until you've seen my voter registration card, your speculation about my political affiliation is just that - speculation.

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
5.1.3  Vic Eldred  replied to  sandy-2021492 @5.1.2    6 months ago

Haha.....That's right, your'e an "Independent".....living not in northern Virginia, but "north western" Virginia!

As Charlie Chan used to say "So sorry!

 
 
 
sandy-2021492
5.1.4  sandy-2021492  replied to  Vic Eldred @5.1.3    6 months ago

As I said - speculation.  Insisting that one's speculation is reality is rarely wise.

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
5.1.5  Vic Eldred  replied to  sandy-2021492 @5.1.4    6 months ago
Insisting that one's speculation is reality is rarely wise.

As Number One son keeps reminding me!

CHARLIE_CHAN_CIRCUS-2.jpg

 
 
 
sandy-2021492
5.1.6  sandy-2021492  replied to  Vic Eldred @5.1.5    6 months ago

Insisting that one's speculation on the thoughts of another human being that one has never met are more accurate than the other's own characterization of them is also not especially honest.  It's also a bit rude, as it implies that the other person is a liar.

You're using a rude, dishonest tactic, Vic.

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
5.1.7  Vic Eldred  replied to  sandy-2021492 @5.1.6    6 months ago

I take you at your word Sandra.


Many pardons

61203add3e0935404575066224944794.jpg

 
 
 
Dulay
5.1.8  Dulay  replied to  Vic Eldred @5.1    6 months ago

Then why are you on this seed? 

 
 
 
Ed-NavDoc
5.1.9  Ed-NavDoc  replied to  Vic Eldred @5.1    6 months ago

Seems like the question could also be construed as a trap as well. Answer as a conservative Independent and you potentially become fair game for the liberal left leaners.

 
 
 
pat wilson
5.1.10  pat wilson  replied to  Dulay @5.1.8    6 months ago

[deleted]

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
5.1.11  Vic Eldred  replied to  Dulay @5.1.8    6 months ago
Then why are you on this seed? 

Well, If you took the time to read the first line of the article, you might actually know that aside from the independent requirement of answering the question, anyone may comment.

Or will you call that a lie too?

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
5.1.12  Vic Eldred  replied to  pat wilson @5.1.10    6 months ago

What out who you call a troll

 
 
 
Dulay
5.1.13  Dulay  replied to  Vic Eldred @5.1.11    6 months ago
Or will you call that a lie too?

No, just the overt lies...

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
5.1.14  Vic Eldred  replied to  Dulay @5.1.13    6 months ago

[deleted]

 
 
 
Galen Marvin Ross
5.1.15  Galen Marvin Ross  replied to  Vic Eldred @5.1    6 months ago
The question was only for Independents

Ya need to re-read what was posted in the seed,

The question is really only for independents, but anyone can comment. 
 
 
 
Galen Marvin Ross
5.1.16  Galen Marvin Ross  replied to  Ed-NavDoc @5.1.9    6 months ago
Seems like the question could also be construed as a trap as well. Answer as a conservative Independent and you potentially become fair game for the liberal left leaners.

There are only two kinds of people who think in absolutes, there are those who would vote for a Democrat simply because they have seen the truth of Trump and, have been sick of him for over two years and, then there are those who have seen the truth in the past two years and, have come to realize they voted for the wrong person 2016.

 
 
 
Ed-NavDoc
5.1.17  Ed-NavDoc  replied to  Galen Marvin Ross @5.1.16    6 months ago

First off, I cannot in good concience vote for any of the Dems that have currently thrown their hats into the ring so far as I see them as no better than Trump. Secondly, I never voted for Trump to begin with and voted 3rd party. I may do so again if a worthwhile opponent can be found. In retrospect, I considered Trump a lesser evil than his opponent in the last election.

 
 
 
cjcold
5.1.18  cjcold  replied to  Vic Eldred @5.1.3    5 months ago

If you can't punctuate or spell correctly why should I pay attention to you?

 
 
 
cjcold
5.1.19  cjcold  replied to  sandy-2021492 @5.1.6    5 months ago

[deleted]

 
 
 
Texan1211
5.1.20  Texan1211  replied to  cjcold @5.1.19    5 months ago

[deleted]

 
 
 
Texan1211
5.1.21  Texan1211  replied to  cjcold @5.1.18    5 months ago
If you can't punctuate or spell correctly why should I pay attention to you?

To learn something.

A person's ability to spell and punctuate doesn't mean they are smart or dumb.

 
 
 
Galen Marvin Ross
5.1.22  Galen Marvin Ross  replied to  Ed-NavDoc @5.1.17    5 months ago
Secondly, I never voted for Trump to begin with and voted 3rd party.

IMO, this means that through throwing your vote away as you did, you voted for Trump, I would say the same if Hillary had been elected and, you had voted third party.

 
 
 
KDMichigan
6  KDMichigan    6 months ago

It's a little early for that JR.

I'll wait and see but as it now stands I'll be voting for Trump again. 

 
 
 
livefreeordie
7  livefreeordie    6 months ago

If I thought it would make a difference, yes. But I am still a registered independent in the Stalinist Republik of   Kalifornia where no one to the right of Bernie Sanders has any chance to win the States electoral votes.

that won’t change in my remaining time on earth

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
7.1  Vic Eldred  replied to  livefreeordie @7    6 months ago

You never know...LA had to remove over a million illegitimate voters from their voter rolls. 

 
 
 
Dulay
7.1.1  Dulay  replied to  Vic Eldred @7.1    6 months ago

That is a lie.

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
7.1.2  Vic Eldred  replied to  Dulay @7.1.1    6 months ago

deleted for context

 
 
 
Dulay
7.1.3  Dulay  replied to  Vic Eldred @7.1.2    6 months ago

deleted for context

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
7.1.4  Vic Eldred  replied to  Dulay @7.1.3    6 months ago

deleted for context



 
 
 
Ozzwald
7.1.5  Ozzwald  replied to  Vic Eldred @7.1.4    6 months ago

deleted for contex

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
7.1.6  Vic Eldred  replied to  Ozzwald @7.1.5    6 months ago

deleted for context


 
 
 
Vic Eldred
7.1.7  Vic Eldred  replied to  Vic Eldred @7.1.6    6 months ago

deleted for context

 
 
 
Dulay
7.1.8  Dulay  replied to  Vic Eldred @7.1    6 months ago
LA had to remove over a million illegitimate voters from their voter rolls.

Inactive voters are NOT 'illegitimate voters'.  

 
 
 
Ozzwald
7.1.9  Ozzwald  replied to  Dulay @7.1.8    5 months ago
Inactive voters are NOT 'illegitimate voters'.

But improperly using the word "illegitimate", makes his argument almost sound "legitimate".  Assuming of course that you don't do any fact checking.

 
 
 
cjcold
7.2  cjcold  replied to  livefreeordie @7    5 months ago

When did you first know that you were a far right winger?

 
 
 
Dean Moriarty
8  Dean Moriarty    6 months ago

I always vote for the Libertarian candidate but JR is really pushing me towards voting for Trump.

 
 
 
JohnRussell
8.1  author  JohnRussell  replied to  Dean Moriarty @8    6 months ago

Maybe Gary whats his face will find out where Aleppo is by next year and you can vote for him with a clear conscience again. 

 
 
 
Dean Moriarty
8.1.1  Dean Moriarty  replied to  JohnRussell @8.1    6 months ago

It's good to see Trump took Gary's advice and doesn't care about Aleppo either. The Aleppo warmongers are now a distant memory. 

 
 
 
JohnRussell
8.1.2  author  JohnRussell  replied to  Dean Moriarty @8.1.1    6 months ago

Yeah, unfortunately Aleppo is not beachfront property, so Trump has no use for it. 

 
 
 
Ronin2
8.1.3  Ronin2  replied to  JohnRussell @8.1.2    6 months ago

Too bad the left think Aleppo is more important than US citizens. 

Nothing like manufacturing a crisis to destabilize a foreign country even further. But since this is Obama's manufactured crisis, the left is all for it.

 
 
 
cjcold
8.1.4  cjcold  replied to  Ronin2 @8.1.3    5 months ago

I've seen you attempt to derail many conversations. Is that your job?

 
 
 
Dismayed Patriot
8.2  Dismayed Patriot  replied to  Dean Moriarty @8    6 months ago
JR is really pushing me towards voting for Trump

You let other people dictate your actions? Is John really that influential on your life that he's forcing you to do something out of character?

 
 
 
JohnRussell
9  author  JohnRussell    6 months ago

I get a kick out of all these right wingers saying they are independents. Where is their pride? 

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
9.1  Vic Eldred  replied to  JohnRussell @9    6 months ago

Is that a rude dishonest tactic?

11chan-web-2-popup.jpg

 
 
 
Dulay
9.1.1  Dulay  replied to  Vic Eldred @9.1    6 months ago
Is that a rude dishonest tactic?

No, John didn't have the last word and then close down his seed...

 
 
 
livefreeordie
9.2  livefreeordie  replied to  JohnRussell @9    6 months ago

My pride was leaving the Democratic Socialist GOP in 1970.  Since then only Reagan has received my vote for a Republican.  I keep telling them when they ask me to come back that I will when they become a Conservative party.  I’ll be dead before that happens

 
 
 
cjcold
9.2.1  cjcold  replied to  livefreeordie @9.2    5 months ago
the Democratic Socialist GOP

Pretty sure that is a contradiction of terms.

 
 
 
Galen Marvin Ross
9.3  Galen Marvin Ross  replied to  JohnRussell @9    6 months ago

They left it at the last rally,

800

 
 
 
Heartland American
9.3.1  Heartland American  replied to  Galen Marvin Ross @9.3    5 months ago

Actually you showed us a photo of the paramilitary arm of the democrat party. 

 
 
 
cjcold
9.3.2  cjcold  replied to  Heartland American @9.3.1    5 months ago

Pretty sure that the KKK is a far right wing Christian group. The insignia is unmistakable.

Are you now defending the KKK?

So anybody who claims to believe in a god is OK with you?

 
 
 
Galen Marvin Ross
9.3.3  Galen Marvin Ross  replied to  Heartland American @9.3.1    5 months ago
Actually you showed us a photo of the paramilitary arm of the democrat party. 

Sorry, these folks support Donald J. Trump, just ask any members at a Trump rally.

 
 
 
JohnRussell
10  author  JohnRussell    6 months ago

deleted

 
 
 
Tacos!
11  Tacos!    6 months ago

It always comes down to some combination of who is the most effective in the best ways and who will screw good things up the least.

If Trump were elected president, we were told in 2016, the markets would collapse , the world would be plunged into recession - nay! An economic disaster from which our economy would "never" recover. Unemployment would skyrocket . A Trump presidency would usher in an international age of darkness . In a fit of emotional hysteria, Trump would start a war over something minor . He would destroy freedom of the press . The forecasts of impending doom were everywhere.

None of this shit has happened. None of it! And these forecasts all came from "experts" who we should listen to. Sorry, but I'm not listening anymore.

There are many things I would prefer to see our president do differently, but if my choice in November 2020 is between Trump and some virtue signaling asshole who wants to indiscriminately open our borders, impose a series of regulatory strangleholds on the economy, and tax the living daylights out of the American people, then I will have no choice but to vote for Trump.

 
 
 
JohnRussell
11.1  author  JohnRussell  replied to  Tacos! @11    6 months ago

Donald Trump is not an honorable person. He is not a good person. He is not an honest person. And by this point we have all sorts of evidence that he is not a very intelligent person. He is easily the worst president in the history of this country. And I mean easily.  The role of the president is not just to take credit for whatever good things happen in America every day. 

Trump often claims that since he took office America's standing throughout the world has gone up.  But he is simply lying.  They actually measure that sort of thing through surveys and the reputation of the United States is in tatters in much of the rest of the world. Some of these other countries think we have lost our mind when we elected Trump, and not in a good way.

We have a president* whose word means nothing.  When he says something it is just as likely that the truth is the exact opposite of whatever he says.  This is not tenable. 

 
 
 
Tacos!
11.1.1  Tacos!  replied to  JohnRussell @11.1    6 months ago

I actually agree with a lot of that. It doesn't change anything I wrote, though. Does it?

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
11.1.2  Vic Eldred  replied to  JohnRussell @11.1    6 months ago
This is not tenable. 

It's not?  I would ask you what will happen next, but the President is about to sit down with Tucker Carlson. I'll check back. Have a good night.

 
 
 
Jack_TX
11.1.3  Jack_TX  replied to  JohnRussell @11.1    6 months ago
He is easily the worst president in the history of this country.

Only in the eyes of children and Millennials who think the "history of this country" began in 2002.

Moronic statements like that are the reason people don't take liberals seriously.

 
 
 
MUVA
11.1.4  MUVA  replied to  JohnRussell @11.1    6 months ago

Your first line describes all politicians you seem to have a tunnel vision or maybe wear a eyepatch. 

 
 
 
JohnRussell
11.1.5  author  JohnRussell  replied to  Jack_TX @11.1.3    6 months ago

You have your opinion and I have mine.  Trump was rated dead last out of the 44 presidents in a survey of presidential historians taken last year. 

Are you really under the delusion that the rest of his term is going to be rated any better? 

 
 
 
katrix
11.1.6  katrix  replied to  Tacos! @11.1.1    6 months ago

He just bumbles around like the reality star he is, creating crises so he can pretend to resolve them. The tariffs, the foreign policy, the way he treats his Cabinet as members of The Apprentice rather than trying to get permanent people in place ... he is so totally unqualified and what's worse, he hates intellectual stimulation and refuses to learn or to think or to read. There is just no way I could vote for him unless maybe Frothy Mix or some fanatic like that were the only other choice.

 
 
 
Jack_TX
11.1.7  Jack_TX  replied to  JohnRussell @11.1.5    6 months ago

Contrary to current Millenial belief, the world did not actually begin with the invention of social media.

Let's do a quick scorecard here.....

  • Number of US residents interned because of their race:  FDR: 115,000.  Trump: 0.
  • Number of US servicemen killed in wars the president promised he would not enter:  LBJ:  50,000.  Trump: 0.
  • Number of Cherokees killed in forced marches:  Martin van Buren:  4000   Trump:  0.
  • Number of office buildings illegally bugged:  Nixon:  1    Trump:  0

But none of that matters, because Trump says mean things on Twitter....

 
 
 
Tacos!
11.1.8  Tacos!  replied to  katrix @11.1.6    5 months ago
creating crises

Like what? Like we haven't had a problem at the Mexican border for years? Like millions of people aren't in the country illegally?

The tariffs

I'm not a fan of tariffs either, as a general matter, but we already had a lot of tariffs in place - including with allies. I don't know of many people who didn't think NAFTA could use some improvements, but you didn't see Canada and Mexico demanding those changes. What was going to compel them? Same with China. Even Chuck Schumer recently encouraged Trump to stay strong on China. They really have been screwing us over for years.

the foreign policy

You mean like pulling troops home? Like not starting wars? Like talking to North Korea instead of hoping they'll go away? I'm ok with that. Obama lobbed 120 Tomahawk missiles into Libya so the UK could get its oil. Not exactly our proudest moment but the man could do no wrong, so it was all good. Imagine if Trump pulled something like that what the reaction would be.

the way he treats his Cabinet as members of The Apprentice rather than trying to get permanent people in place

First of all, everyone on the Left treated everyone he nominated like they were Nazi agents, so why rush to their defense? Second, there's no such thing as "permanent people" in a presidential cabinet. Every administration has turnover. I readily concede that Trump has more than others, but did you really expect something different? I think Trump's biggest cabinet problem is he didn't really know who to pick in the first place.

 
 
 
It Is ME
11.1.9  It Is ME  replied to  Tacos! @11.1.8    5 months ago
Like we haven't had a problem at the Mexican border for years?

Why No ! jrSmiley_89_smiley_image.gif

It didn't start being a problem until after January 2017. jrSmiley_88_smiley_image.gif

Even then, the Democrats Couldn't/Wouldn't help FIX IT ! They just want to Bitch about decades and decades of problems they could have actually controlled and fixed ! jrSmiley_32_smiley_image.gif

 
 
 
Dulay
11.1.11  Dulay  replied to  Tacos! @11.1.8    5 months ago
Like what? Like we haven't had a problem at the Mexican border for years? Like millions of people aren't in the country illegally?

So then there wasn't suddenly a 'National Emergency' as Trump claimed...

Even Chuck Schumer recently encouraged Trump to stay strong on China. They really have been screwing us over for years.

If by 'recently' you mean LAST YEAR....

Schumer spoke out against Trump caving to China on Huawei LAST WEEK. 

Obama lobbed 120 Tomahawk missiles into Libya so the UK could get its oil.

That's ridiculous. The UK is only 1.1% of Libya's exports. Hell the US receives over DOUBLE that from Libya. 

First of all, everyone on the Left treated everyone he nominated like they were Nazi agents, so why rush to their defense?

Utter bullshit. 

David Shulkin Sec. of V.A. 100 votes ,James Mattis Sec. of Defense 98 votes, Nikki Haley UN Ambassador 96 votes, Elaine Chao Sec. of Trans. 93 votes, John Kelly Sec. of DHS 88 votes

Sonny Perdue Sec. of Ag. 87 votes, Wilbur Ross Sec. of Commerce 73 votes, Ryan Zinke Sec. of the Int. 68 votes

Second, there's no such thing as "permanent people" in a presidential cabinet. Every administration has turnover.

Not like Trump, not with multiple scandals about financial gain from their position and NOT being replaced by ACTING political appointees who aren't confirmed by the Congress. 

Normalizing Trump's crap is complicity. 

I think Trump's biggest cabinet problem is he didn't really know who to pick in the first place.

Even though he had since May 2016 to pursue and vet nominees. It proves his utter incompetence and in some cases, competent people taking a pass on being a part of Trump's debacle. 

 
 
 
Tacos!
11.1.12  Tacos!  replied to  Dulay @11.1.11    5 months ago
So then there wasn't suddenly a 'National Emergency' as Trump claimed...

You respond to my question with a question. Were you afraid to answer?

When did Trump say that there was "suddenly" a national emergency? From what I saw, he simply declared the existence of a thing that has been there for a long time. The reason he did was because Congress won't do anything about it and this is a legal path allowing him to take limited steps to solving it.

If by 'recently' you mean LAST YEAR....

No, I meant May of THIS year , but I don't see what difference that would make either way. Did you have a point?

Schumer spoke out against Trump caving to China on Huawei LAST WEEK.

So, you agree he wants Trump to be tough on China. Good. They're not going to agree on every little thing.

That's ridiculous

I thought so, too. Yet it happened anyway.

Not like Trump

I think I said that. It makes things tedious when you don't read.

Normalizing Trump's crap is complicity

Comments like this are a spineless attempt at passive-aggressive trolling . . . imho.

Even though he had since May 2016 to pursue and vet nominees. It proves his utter incompetence and in some cases, competent people taking a pass on being a part of Trump's debacle. 

I agree for the most part (he's probably not utterly incompetent). He had no real political experience and lacked contacts. I think he was not nearly as prepared as he should have been. A guy like Trump gets caught up in his own sales pitch and believes he will accomplish anything, no matter how complex, simply through the power of his positive thinking. I think it's unfortunate that no one from his party will primary him, but it always goes that way.

 
 
 
Dulay
11.1.13  Dulay  replied to  Tacos! @11.1.12    5 months ago
You respond to my question with a question. Were you afraid to answer?

That wasn't a question, it was a statement. Note the lack of a question mark at the end of the sentence. 

When did Trump say that there was "suddenly" a national emergency? From what I saw, he simply declared the existence of a thing that has been there for a long time.

Perhaps a review of the definition of emergency would help:

Definition of emergency
1 : an unforeseen combination of circumstances or the resulting state that calls for immediate action
2 : an urgent need for assistance or relief

The reason he did was because Congress won't do anything about it and this is a legal path allowing him to take limited steps to solving it.

So fucking limited that it has had NO effect whatsoever other than to cause litigation and delays in EMERGENCY repairs to military bases damaged by hurricane Michael and in need of mitigating the toxins in the water and the mold in the housing..."limited steps" BOY HOWDY.

Did you have a point?

Yes and I made it. Schumer spoke out against Trump caving to China on Huawei LAST WEEK.

I thought so, too. Yet it happened anyway.

Did Obama, with a coallition, attack Libya? Yes.

Was it so that the UK could have oil? NO. 

I think I said that.

No, you didn't. 

It makes things tedious when you don't read.

Your supercilious bullshit comments are tedious. 

Comments like this are a spineless attempt at passive-aggressive trolling . . . imho.

How so? I thought it was pretty in your face. Of course, the shoe would have to fit, wouldn't it? 

A guy like Trump gets caught up in his own sales pitch and believes he will accomplish anything, no matter how complex, simply through the power of his positive thinking.

Trump can't stand having anyone who challenges his narcissistic view of himself. A savvy politician like Chris Christe had to go, can't have anyone around that would question Trump's delusion of perfection in all things. Trump's 'all the best people' were third rate at best in almost all of his appointments and now we're getting the fourth and fifth string. 

Trump's 'positive thinking' is reserved for those things that will bring him personal gain. Trump thinks that whatever is good for Trump is good for the nation. All too many of his sycophants believe that to be true. 

 
 
 
Tacos!
11.1.14  Tacos!  replied to  Dulay @11.1.13    5 months ago
That wasn't a question, it was a statement.

Then you made a claim that did not follow from the comment you were responding to. AKA non sequitur.

Definition of emergency

Fits with the facts. So if you have a point, you aren't making it. Your expression of apparent agreement is a little strange, but I'll go along with it. 

So fucking limited

Yes, it's unfortunate he can't do more. At least he is trying, which is more than most can say.

Yes and I made it.

We agree again! Outstanding! I think we're on a roll.

Your supercilious bullshit comments are tedious. 

And your hostile ones come off as childish. Does it make you feel smarter to talk this way? I assume you make these comments because you have some psychological need to hate me and so you needlessly attempt to parse things that don't need parsing. And of course, curse at me as much as possible. I'm going to keep trying to just be nice.

How so? I thought it was pretty in your face.

I'm trying to give you the benefit of the doubt that maybe hiding in there somewhere is a person capable of having an intelligent debate without being belligerent. Therefore, I try not to assume the worst when your comments seem needlessly hostile. This is all very meta, though. Would you like to stray back to the topic?

 
 
 
Dulay
11.1.15  Dulay  replied to  Tacos! @11.1.14    5 months ago
Then you made a claim that did not follow from the comment you were responding to. AKA non sequitur.

There are these things here called threads.

One member states that Trump creates a crisis so that he can pretend to resolve it. 

One member asks 'Like what?' and states that the issue has been ongoing for a long time. 

One member then states that then there wasn't suddenly a 'National Emergency' as Trump claimed. 

'Non sequitur'? Hardly. 

Fits with the facts.

Not the facts that you cited: 

Like we haven't had a problem at the Mexican border for years? From what I saw, he simply declared the existence of a thing that has been there for a long time.

So how about you tell me all about how those facts fit the definition of emergency. 

So if you have a point, you aren't making it.

Your 'apparent' inability to recognize it is on you. 

Your expression of apparent agreement is a little strange, but I'll go along with it.

Now you're just making shit up. 

Yes, it's unfortunate he can't do more. At least he is trying, which is more than most can say.

So you're taking a card from the 'truncate and misrepresent' deck being played of late. Well done...

And your hostile ones come off as childish.

What was hostile about my comment? 

BTW, your perception is on you. 

Does it make you feel smarter to talk this way? 

I don't need to 'feel smarter'. 

I assume you make these comments because you have some psychological need to hate me and so you needlessly attempt to parse things that don't need parsing.

Wow, how very self important of you...

It shouldn't surprise you that you have no effect on me, psychologically or otherwise. 

I'll never understand y'all's aversion to parsing since it addressed the analysis of grammar. In short, an aversion to the meaning of words on a forum where we communicate with words. 

BTW, Tacos!, the only thing I 'hate' is fried beef liver...

And of course, curse at me as much as possible. I'm going to keep trying to just be nice.

Yes, your: 'It makes things tedious when you don't read.' is a 'nice' touch.

 
 
 
Tacos!
11.1.16  Tacos!  replied to  Dulay @11.1.15    5 months ago

You can't or won't understand what I am trying to communicate to you. But by your rules, that is your failing, not mine. To quote you:

Your 'apparent' inability to recognize it is on you.
 
 
 
Dulay
11.1.17  Dulay  replied to  Tacos! @11.1.16    5 months ago
You can't or won't understand what I am trying to communicate to you. But by your rules, that is your failing, not mine.

I understood everything you said and refuted much of it. 

I suppose it makes you feel better to pretend that I my reply wasn't cogent. You do you...

 
 
 
Nerm_L
12  Nerm_L    6 months ago

So far Trump is running unopposed.  Democrats seem to be searching for that glass of water with a D.

Didn't vote for Trump last time and won't next time, either.  Full stop.

 
 
 
katrix
12.1  katrix  replied to  Nerm_L @12    6 months ago
Didn't vote for Trump last time and won't next time, either.  Full stop.

The question is - will there be anyone we actually want to vote for? 

 
 
 
luther28
12.1.1  luther28  replied to  katrix @12.1    6 months ago
The question is - will there be anyone we actually want to vote for? 
And there is the root cause of our difficulties in my opinion. Term limits, that way we minimize the damage done by the idiots we elect so we can elect new idiots.
Personally I am looking for that one common sense candidate, should he or she exist.

 
 
 
Buzz of the Orient
13  Buzz of the Orient    6 months ago

I refuse to vote for anyone in 2020.

 
 
 
luther28
14  luther28    6 months ago

Question For Independents : Are You Considering Voting For Donald Trump In 2020?

No!

But (I always have a but), I hope between now and 2020 either one of the Dems gets away from the pie and the sky stuff or Teddy Roosevelt rises from the grave and enters the race.

This is beginning to look much like 2016 all over again, poor candidates to choose from and a lack of cohesiveness and message.

 
 
 
MUVA
14.1  MUVA  replied to  luther28 @14    6 months ago

The democrats have a message free shit for everyone even if you are here illegally.Note as a citizen if you make over 125,000 you get nothing but a bigger tax bill in their plan.

 
 
 
luther28
14.1.1  luther28  replied to  MUVA @14.1    6 months ago
The democrats have a message free shit for everyone even if you are here illegally

I found this to be the most bothersome segment, I believe in participatory assistance for those in need.

As Perrie said a few weeks ago: Clowns to the left, jokers to the right, here we are, stuck in the middle.

 
 
 
MrFrost
14.1.2  MrFrost  replied to  MUVA @14.1    5 months ago
The democrats have a message free shit for everyone even if you are here illegally.

Yea, heard that one the last three election cycles and it's no more true now than it was then. What happened to, "[insert candidate here] is going to take all your guns!!!!!!!!!!!!"

Waiting a couple months before you start spitting that one out? 

 
 
 
r.t..b...
14.2  r.t..b...  replied to  luther28 @14    6 months ago
This is beginning to look much like 2016 all over again, poor candidates to choose from and a lack of cohesiveness and message.

The pandering is unbearable. Playing to the fringes with platitudes and promises, lacking any real agenda in moving the country toward the reconciliation that will be required before we can move forward. We have so much in common but would never know it from the rhetoric and messaging from our supposed leaders, which is then parroted ad nauseum. That being said...there is no logical, political, or ethical way I could vote for this churl.

 

 
 
 
luther28
14.2.1  luther28  replied to  r.t..b... @14.2    6 months ago
The pandering is unbearable. Playing to the fringes with platitudes and promises, lacking any real agenda in moving the country toward the reconciliation that will be required before we can move forward. We have so much in common but would never know it from the rhetoric and messaging from our supposed leaders, which is then parroted ad nauseum.

This is an excellent summation of our current state of politics in my opinion.

 
 
 
lib50
15  lib50    6 months ago

I've been an independent my entire voting life, never belonged to either dems or gop.   I've voted across party lines.  But it became clear during Bush's presidency that the gop was moving so far right I couldn't recognize them.  I've been disgusted ever since, and Trump has sealed the demise of the old gop.  The most partisan lying group of racist ignorant assholes who want to be the christian taliban.  Taking from women.  Taking from children.  Taking from the least of us in order to give it to those with all of it.  I will never vote for any republican due to what they've become.  Conservatives like to pretend they are upstanding moral people, but they are now the opposite of what they try to portray.  I could never be part of that amorality.

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
15.1  Vic Eldred  replied to  lib50 @15    6 months ago
I've voted across party lines.

May I ask when?

 
 
 
luther28
15.2  luther28  replied to  lib50 @15    6 months ago
I've been an independent my entire voting life, never belonged to either dems or gop.   I've voted across party lines.  But it became clear during Bush's presidency that the gop was moving so far right I couldn't recognize them.

For me it was Mr. Gingrich, that seemed to begin their spiral into insanity. Personally I vote for candidates and will continue to do so (such as they are :(), not parties.

 
 
 
Tacos!
15.3  Tacos!  replied to  lib50 @15    5 months ago
I will never vote for any republican due to what they've become. 

What do you think is different about them from 10 or 20 years ago . . . or whenever it was that you last voted for a Republican?

 
 
 
MrFrost
15.4  MrFrost  replied to  lib50 @15    5 months ago
But it became clear during Bush's presidency that the gop was moving so far right I couldn't recognize them. 

Same here. I voted for GHWB, Clinton and GWB...but by the time GWB got to his second term, I said never again. No more voting for republicans. In local races I will from time to time. 

 
 
 
It Is ME
16  It Is ME    6 months ago

"Question For Independents : Are You Considering Voting For Donald Trump In 2020?"

YES ! jrSmiley_13_smiley_image.gif

 
 
 
The Magic Eight Ball
17  The Magic Eight Ball    6 months ago
Are You Considering Voting For Donald Trump In 2020?

at least twice, but maybe three times.

jrSmiley_100_smiley_image.jpg

 
 
 
Mark in Wyoming
18  Mark in Wyoming    6 months ago

For me , someone whom is neither registered as a Rep or a Dem, Independent by default? I think it is too early for me to even consider that question.

The time for me personally to consider it will come in about a year AFTER the national conventions chooses whom their candidates will actually be. That is likely when I would be able to consider the question.

So I cant/ wont answer this question . I WILL however listen to what the hopeful candidates are saying , but more importantly what they are not saying about other issues that I personally feel are important as well.

 
 
 
Thrawn 31
18.1  Thrawn 31  replied to  Mark in Wyoming @18    5 months ago

Dude, if by this point you don't know whether or not you like Trump then just don't vote. [Deleted] If after 2 years of his bullshit, you cannot decide if you support or oppose [it Deleted]

 
 
 
Mark in Wyoming
18.1.1  Mark in Wyoming  replied to  Thrawn 31 @18.1    5 months ago

well dude , like I said its still too early to tell whom one will vote for on election day 2020, the cast has not even been close to being assembled as to who the candidates will be . the dems are in the same place the GOP was in 16 with a very crowded field that had to be whittled down to whom the nominee would actually be, and I am content to see whom the eventual candidates will be nominated at the conventions, after that I can concentrate on both nominated candidates and what they actually have to say , and will then make my choice, I may end up doing what I did in 16 and vote for a 3rd party candidate of my choice because whomever both parties nominated were not to my liking . either way , its none of your business , and rest assured , I WILL vote.

 
 
 
Thrawn 31
18.1.2  Thrawn 31  replied to  Mark in Wyoming @18.1.1    5 months ago

.... Just don't vote.

 
 
 
Mark in Wyoming
18.1.3  Mark in Wyoming  replied to  Thrawn 31 @18.1.2    5 months ago

Whats the matter ? afraid i wont vote in YOUR best interests if I vote and your interests will lose? again? I will decide who I vote for when the time comes  not before, if it is against your interests and feelings , well too bad , it is my vote , not yours, don't like it ? then move to some other country where you get to dictate how others vote .

I have no idea who the nominated candidates will be , neither do you, there is a lot of time between now and the conventions  to nominate a candidate  and there is no guarantee anyone currently running , will make it that far, from either side.,  right now neither party interests me  because everyone is still trying to garner the nomination and are in the say anything phase to get that nomination, but [Deleted] before candidates are nominated just  may make me make a SPITE vote . just to FUCK them over.  so go ahead , piss me off. Im 57 years old , been retired for the last 8 years with everything paid off and living a very ,very comfortable life and never have to work a day in my life again without collecting any government assistance if i choose not too.See how that works ? so tell me again what YOU think my best interests SHOULD be? 

 
 
 
Jeremy Retired in NC
19  Jeremy Retired in NC    5 months ago

Will I vote for Trump?  Lets see. 

We have about 20 people who have been involved in politics for decades hoping to run against Trump.  The majority of the problems this country is facing started BEFORE Trump come into the political arena and they haven't done much to resolve them.  Now I'm suddenly supposed to believe they will do something now?  We all know it's nothing but lip service and they won't get my vote.

 
 
 
Dulay
19.1  Dulay  replied to  Jeremy Retired in NC @19    5 months ago
Will I vote for Trump?

Are you claiming to be an Independent? 

 
 
 
Jeremy Retired in NC
19.1.1  Jeremy Retired in NC  replied to  Dulay @19.1    5 months ago

Always have been.  

 
 
 
Dulay
19.1.2  Dulay  replied to  Jeremy Retired in NC @19.1.1    5 months ago

jrSmiley_10_smiley_image.gif

 
 
 
Jeremy Retired in NC
19.1.3  Jeremy Retired in NC  replied to  Dulay @19.1.2    5 months ago

That was my reaction listening to the Democrat debate.  

 
 
 
Dulay
19.1.4  Dulay  replied to  Jeremy Retired in NC @19.1.3    5 months ago
That was my reaction listening to the Democrat debate.

How very 'independent' of you...

 
 
 
Thrawn 31
20  Thrawn 31    5 months ago

I think my position has been made clear.

 
 
 
Thrawn 31
21  Thrawn 31    5 months ago

[REMOVED

 
 
 
MUVA
21.1  MUVA  replied to  Thrawn 31 @21    5 months ago

Then why say it in this day and age I have to report this to the secret service sorry.

 
 
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