No, Mr. President, China isn’t paying your tariffs. We are

  
Via:  john-russell  •  2 weeks ago  •  27 comments

No, Mr. President, China isn’t paying your tariffs. We are
The New York Federal Reserve estimates that tariffs already imposed by the administration are costing about $830 per U.S. household. The next round of tariffs, scheduled to begin next month, could add roughly $200 per household to that annual cost.

S E E D E D   C O N T E N T


Yesterday President* Trump announced a delay in the next round of tariffs on Chinese products entering the U.S.    Trump says that he is delaying the tariffs, which were set to start Sept. 1, until mid December with the intention to not have them disrupt the Christmas shopping season. 


Trump went on to say that tariffs on China so far have cost the U.S. consumer virtually nothing and that China has paid the United States 60 billion dollars in tariffs.  


Why does the American media continue to let Trump lie about tariffs? 


jr


===================================================================


https://www.latimes.com/business/story/2019-08-11/newsletter-how-tariffs-work


Welcome to the weekly newsletter of the  L.A. Times Business Section . I’m consumer columnist  David Lazarus , here today with a handy explainer on how tariffs work.


President Trump keeps insisting that China, not U.S. consumers, are paying for his tariffs on Chinese goods. He is, to put it politely, wrong.


Tariffs Hurt the Heartland, a coalition of business and trade groups,  issued a report  last week saying American consumers and businesses paid $6 billion in tariffs in June, up 74% from the same month a year ago. More than half that total came from Trump’s tariffs.


The trade coalition called June “one of the highest tariffed months in U.S. history.”





?url=https%3A%2F%2Fca-times.brightspotcd


President Trump signed a first round of trade sanctions against China in March. Additional tariffs are to take effect in September. The president says China pays these taxes. In fact, American consumers are being hit with the tab.

(AFP/Getty Images)




To hear Trump tell it, this is great news. “It is now even more obvious to everyone that Americans are not paying for the Tariffs — they are being paid for compliments of China, and the U.S. is taking in tens of Billions of Dollars!”  he tweeted .


That’s just not true. The New York Federal Reserve estimates that tariffs already imposed by the administration are costing about $830 per U.S. household. The next round of tariffs, scheduled to begin next month, could add roughly $200 per household to that annual cost.


For those who don’t know (including, it seems, the president of the United States), tariffs aren’t penalty fines. They’re taxes, paid to U.S. Customs and Border Protection by companies that import goods from abroad. Such companies — manufacturers, retailers, electronics firms — typically pass along their higher costs to customers in the form of higher prices.


Customs duties collected in the fiscal year that started last October have now hit $50 billion, up from $28.3 billion for the same 10 months in 2018, according to the U.S. Treasury. This puts us on track for about $72 billion in tariff revenue for the year.




“We have billions of dollars coming into our Treasury — billions — from China,” Trump crowed in January. “We never had 10 cents coming into our Treasury; now we have billions coming in.”


Again, those billions are not from China. They’re from you.


If there’s some trade leverage to be had, it’s from American consumers possibly buying fewer Chinese-made goods because the products are becoming more expensive. That could place economic pressure on Chinese authorities.


However, because nearly everything is made in China these days, it can be difficult to find a domestically produced alternative. So the reality is that U.S. consumers, more often than not, will simply adjust to higher prices — which means having less money to spend elsewhere.


“Taxing hardworking Americans isn’t doing a thing to address China’s trade abuses,” said Tariffs Hurt the Heartland spokesman Jonathan Gold. “Instead, these tariffs are costing American jobs, raising prices, hurting farmers and derailing U.S. economic growth.”

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JohnRussell
1  seeder  JohnRussell    2 weeks ago

Why does the American media continue to let Trump lie about tariffs? 

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
2  Vic Eldred    2 weeks ago

China is waiting and hoping that Trump loses in 2020. If he wins they will deal - you heard it here first!

 
 
 
JohnRussell
2.1  seeder  JohnRussell  replied to  Vic Eldred @2    2 weeks ago

Trump is QUOTED as saying yesterday (and I heard the audio) that US consumers are not paying the tariffs, and China is.  "The only impact (from the tariffs) is that we have collected 60 billion dollars from China". 

Every expert on tariffs I have seen says this is not true. 

Why do you support a liar in the presidency? 

 
 
 
Paula Bartholomew
2.1.1  Paula Bartholomew  replied to  JohnRussell @2.1    2 weeks ago

China is paying the tariffs like Mexico is paying for the wall.

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
2.1.2  Vic Eldred  replied to  JohnRussell @2.1    2 weeks ago

Why do you want to carry on the massive trade imbalance with China? Every President since Bill Clinton who got China into the WTO has allowed to this to go on, only Trump had the guts to take it on!

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
2.1.3  Vic Eldred  replied to  Paula Bartholomew @2.1.1    2 weeks ago
China is paying the tariffs like Mexico is paying for the wall.

They are suffering!  Patiently hoping like Iran, Comey, McCabe, Clapper, the msm and liberals that Trump loses in 2020.  

 
 
 
Jim Greene
3  Jim Greene    2 weeks ago

Many people are saying we're winning Bigly. /s

 
 
 
Kavika
4  Kavika     2 weeks ago

International trade 101....The importer pays the tariff to US Customs. Always has, always will. 

You can check on US Customs harmonized code to determine what the tariff will be on each item imported. 

 
 
 
Ronin2
5  Ronin2    2 weeks ago
That’s just not true. The New York Federal Reserve estimates that tariffs already imposed by the administration are costing about $830 per U.S. household. The next round of tariffs, scheduled to begin next month, could add roughly $200 per household to that annual cost.

For those who don’t know (including, it seems, the president of the United States), tariffs aren’t penalty fines. They’re taxes, paid to U.S. Customs and Border Protection by companies that import goods from abroad. Such companies — manufacturers, retailers, electronics firms — typically pass along their higher costs to customers in the form of higher prices.

Customs duties collected in the fiscal year that started last October have now hit $50 billion, up from $28.3 billion for the same 10 months in 2018, according to the U.S. Treasury. This puts us on track for about $72 billion in tariff revenue for the year.

What the hell is the left griping about? First they bitch about the "Trump" tax cuts not being "paid for"; which is an oxymoron. Now they are bitching about paying for tariffs; which is nothing more than a tax. Seems that a tax on income is good; but a tax on products is bad in their minds. Forget that there are already several sale taxes placed on every item.  Seems the left would be thrilled that the US government is increasing revenue. 

As for China. They are playing long ball hoping that Trump loses the next election and newly elected Democrat will take things back to the same broken system that was ripping off the US before. The left is simply playing short ball, remove Trump at all costs.  Nothing else matters.

 
 
 
JohnRussell
5.1  seeder  JohnRussell  replied to  Ronin2 @5    2 weeks ago
Seems that a tax on income is good; but a tax on products is bad in their minds. Forget that there are already several sale taxes placed on every item.  Seems the left would be thrilled that the US government is increasing revenue. 

Another one who supports Trump lying to the American people. 

 
 
 
Ronin2
5.1.1  Ronin2  replied to  JohnRussell @5.1    2 weeks ago

Where did I claim that we weren't paying for the tariffs? Go ahead, show me. What part of my statement isn't true? That the left isn't bitching about the "Trump tax cuts". Don't make me laugh. That the tariff is nothing more than another tax on products- which already have several sale taxes on them? Prove me wrong.  You can't so just fall back on "Tttrrummmmpppp!!!!!"

Now, do you want to address the real issue- China and the rest of the planet taking advantage of the US through unfair trade agreements?

Or are you claiming the status quo was great for the US?  

 
 
 
JohnRussell
5.1.2  seeder  JohnRussell  replied to  Ronin2 @5.1.1    2 weeks ago
Where did I claim that we weren't paying for the tariffs? Go ahead, show me. What part of my statement isn't true? That the left isn't bitching about the "Trump tax cuts". Don't make me laugh. That the tariff is nothing more than another tax on products- which already have several sale taxes on them? Prove me wrong.  You can't so just fall back on "Tttrrummmmpppp!!!!!"

Oh please, take your trump love to someone who cares.  If the tariffs are so good for the American economy why is Trump constantly lying about it?  

I agree that China has taken advantage of the US and it needs to be redressed through strong negotiation, but again, why is Trump lying about it? 

Of course the answer is he wants it both ways. He wants his voters and other saps to believe that HE and he alone has created this way to not only reset our trade relationship with China, but also get them to pay us tens of billions of dollars , and HE did it all !

If you are happy being bamboozled by this con man do everyone else a favor and keep it to yourself. 

 
 
 
Ronin2
5.1.3  Ronin2  replied to  JohnRussell @5.1.2    2 weeks ago
Oh please, take your trump love to someone who cares.  If the tariffs are so good for the American economy why is Trump constantly lying about it?  

So anyone that actually agrees with what Trump is doing, not what he says has Trump love? Trump lies about anything and everything. Concentrate on his actions, not his words.

I agree that China has taken advantage of the US and it needs to be redressed through strong negotiation, but again, why is Trump lying about it? 

If you agree, then you should support the tariffs.  Chuck Schumer does. As for the lying, why did Obama lie about the PPACA? Because the truth sucks- and w/o the support of the US sheeple politicians lose their jobs. They have to stay in power in order to get things done.

https://www.cnbc.com/2019/05/06/schumer-urges-trump-to-hang-tough-after-china-trade-tariff-threat.html

The New York senator, who has largely cheered the president’s efforts to crack down on what officials from both major parties call Chinese trade abuses, backed Trump again on Sunday. In a tweet, he urged the president to “hang tough on China.” “Strength is the only way to win with China,” said Schumer, who is otherwise at odds with Trump on a wide variety of policy issues.

Or is Schumer now a Trump lover as well?

Of course the answer is he wants it both ways. He wants his voters and other saps to believe that HE and he alone has created this way to not only reset our trade relationship with China, but also get them to pay us tens of billions of dollars , and HE did it all !

Propaganda to get things done over the truth. Funny how the left defended Obama for it.

If you are happy being bamboozled by this con man do everyone else a favor and keep it to yourself. 

You think I am being bamboozled. jrSmiley_98_smiley_image.gif

Look in the mirror. I haven't made one false statement. So that shows I believe Trump lying about who is paying for the tariffs? I can't stand the man; but when he does something I agree with I will state so. I just don't have rampant TDDS.

 

 
 
 
Jack_TX
5.2  Jack_TX  replied to  Ronin2 @5    2 weeks ago
Seems that a tax on income is good; but a tax on products is bad in their minds. Forget that there are already several sale taxes placed on every item.  Seems the left would be thrilled that the US government is increasing revenue. 

They're only thrilled when taxes are raised on somebody ELSE.   

Taxes on them = bad.  Taxes on other people = good.  See how this works?

 
 
 
JohnRussell
6  seeder  JohnRussell    2 weeks ago

U.S. second quarter GDP growth slows to 2.1% - CGTN

https://news.cgtn.com/news/ 2019 -07-26/U-S- second - quarter - GDP -growth-slows-to-2-1...

Jul 26, 2019  · The updated GDP data, and signs that the economy shifted into lower gear in the second quarter after receiving a boost from exports and an accumulation of unsold goods in the first three months of 2019 , are undercutting that argument. Growth in the first quarter of 2018 was revised up to a 2.5 percent annualized rate from 2.2 percent.

I heard an analyst on tv this morning say that the average GDP growth (year to year) per quarter since Trump took office is 2.5%, which is considerably less than Trump promised. 

The media is failing the American people by wholeheartedly accepting whatever Trump says about the economy.  The GDP was 2.1 for the second quarter of 2019 and there was barely a peep about it in the news. 

 
 
 
Ronin2
6.1  Ronin2  replied to  JohnRussell @6    2 weeks ago

Again, some seem to miss short term pain for long term gain.

China gets it; which is the reason they are not panicking. The left in their get rid of Trump at all costs, do not.

 
 
 
Jack_TX
6.2  Jack_TX  replied to  JohnRussell @6    2 weeks ago

2.1%?

So back to Obama era levels, then...which weren't terrible, TBF.

 
 
 
JohnRussell
6.3  seeder  JohnRussell  replied to  JohnRussell @6    2 weeks ago

Here Are 3 Hot Things to Know About Stocks Right Now

  • The Dow Jones Industrial Average tumbled Wednesday as weak economic data from China, GDP contraction in Germany, and the first inverted U.S. yield curve in 12 years stoked fears of a recession.
  • Benchmark 10-year Treasury note yields fell below yields on two-year notes for the first time since June 2007. Benchmark 30-year bond yields fell to an all-time low.
  • Macy's shares fell after the  iconic retailer  missed Wall Street's second-quarter earnings expectations and trimmed its full-year profit guidance. Macy's is Real Money's  Stock of the Year .
 
 
 
Texan1211
6.3.1  Texan1211  replied to  JohnRussell @6.3    2 weeks ago

Before you complain too much, look at the stock market on Election Day 2016 and compare it to yesterday's closing.

 
 
 
Texan1211
6.4  Texan1211  replied to  JohnRussell @6    2 weeks ago
The GDP was 2.1 for the second quarter of 2019 and there was barely a peep about it in the news.

That IS rather odd, isn't it?

Had it been Obama as President, the news would have been all abuzz about that number.

 
 
 
It Is ME
7  It Is ME    2 weeks ago

"No, Mr. President, China isn’t paying your tariffs. We are"

Who are these "WE" people anyway !

I seem to remember "Liberals" telling everyone, "It's only a penny or two more per burger, in order to give some burger flipper a huge raise to 15 bucks an hour.

What's another penny here and there for anything else, right ?

 
 
 
DRHunk
8  DRHunk    2 weeks ago

I think everyone above who is sucking Trumps cock and bashing "liberals", fails to realize that no one has said the tariffs are bad, or they don't want to pay them.  They are saying the president is a fucking liar and he just needs to tell the truth.  

Everyone already knows the answer of why the truth is not told, it is because the poor red state voters would lose their minds if Trump honestly said the tariff war with China has cost YOU the consumer of goods in the U.S $60B this year and that it will equate to $1K by the years end, money you no longer have, because of my choices. Say seeya to 2020 election if the truth was told.

 
 
 
JohnRussell
8.1  seeder  JohnRussell  replied to  DRHunk @8    2 weeks ago

Of course.

 
 
 
Ronin2
8.2  Ronin2  replied to  DRHunk @8    2 weeks ago
I think everyone above who is sucking Trumps cock and bashing "liberals", fails to realize that no one has said the tariffs are bad, or they don't want to pay them.

Really, have you read all of the posts bitching about how much US households had to pay more for tariffs in the month of June? Or about the economy or stock market slipping? 

it is because the poor red state voters would lose their minds if Trump honestly said the tariff war with China has cost YOU the consumer of goods in the U.S $60B this year and that it will equate to $1K by the years end, money you no longer have, because of my choices.

As if the left lemmings aren't already losing their minds? Where was the left when Obama was lying his ass off about the PPACA and the effects it would have on peoples' wallets, choice of doctors, and coverage?

Say seeya to 2020 election if the truth was told.

Yes, just like Obama would have if he didn't lie. Trump is just being held to a different standard.

 
 
 
DRHunk
9  DRHunk    2 weeks ago

" US households had to pay more for tariffs in the month of June? Or about the economy or stock market slipping? "

Sorry, can people not point out the facts of a situation anymore, or has your party before country rhetoric banned that practice now?

"Where was the left when Obama was lying his ass off about the PPACA and the effects it would have on peoples' wallets, choice of doctors, and coverage?"

Salty tears, Obama was not lying, just incorrect in how it would be executed. The PPACA did not mandate you use any different doctor or network or change your coverage (unless it was shitty coverage that didn't really cover you anyway, as the law was designed)  Keep playing that broken record though, i never get tired of listening to it. Last i checked capitalism was alive and well in America which is where insurance companies and the doctors made business decisions unilaterally to screw the American consumer to once again reap the largest profits from a growing pool of suckers...i mean customers.

"I have personally, kept my same coverage, Kept same insurance carrier, kept my same doctors, and pay relatively the same amount or at least it has not went so much i cared.

There is a difference between having faith in good actors and getting burned as Obama did and just outright fucking lying as Trump is.

"Trump is just being held to a different standard"

Sure, lets cut off our nose despite our faces...Lets have two wrongs equal a right..... lets run around and say, but mom Billy did it too. Hate to break it to you but life is not fair and everyone is held to different standards, its called life and it is a gift given from human nature, don't like it take it up with God.   Don't know how tired i am of the but Obama did it too bullshit.

 
 
 
Jack_TX
9.1  Jack_TX  replied to  DRHunk @9    2 weeks ago
The PPACA did not mandate you use any different doctor or network or change your coverage (unless it was shitty coverage that didn't really cover you anyway, as the law was designed) 

Sorry, but it kinda did.  Whether that was an unintended consequence or not really doesn't matter to the people impacted.   

Prepare for a Cliff Clavin moment.....

The law mandated that any policies issued between the passage of the act in 2010 and the full implementation of the new "metallic" policies must meet certain upgraded standards.  The previous policies, which were not up to those standards, were grandfathered and people were allowed to keep them.

On January 1, 2014, the upgraded "non-grandfathered" plans issued between 2010 and 12/31/13 were abolished and replaced by new "metallic" plans.  

So the "better" plans were abolished and the "shitty" plans were kept.

As the ACA wore on, losses mounted and then the risk corridors were repealed, most insurers just withdrew from the individual markets.  A great failing of the law is that it allows insurers to avoid these high claimants by simply opting out of participating.  This was not the case before the ACA, where most states required them to participate in a high risk pool, subsidizing the sickest people.

As those companies withdrew, the plans left for huge numbers of Americans were all HMO plans, which only cover in-network doctors.

So contrary to the angry defensiveness of many on the left, the ACA did take away coverage for millions of people and has forced millions to change their providers.

 
 
 
DRHunk
10  DRHunk    2 weeks ago

I might have over reached on the intent of the PPACA purpose was to improve some existing plans as seen below.

Secretary of Labor Hilda Solis announced a new rule that protects the ability of individuals and businesses to keep their current plan.  It outlines conditions under which current plans can be ‘grandfathered’ into the system, minimizing market disruption and putting us all on the path toward the competitive, patient-centered market of the future

Think the question is, what ever happened to that rule, who cut it?

 
 
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