What you can do to help the burning Amazon rainforest

  
Via:  tig  •  one month ago  •  107 comments

What you can do to help the burning Amazon rainforest
Environmentalists say humans are the root cause of the Amazon fires — not wind or heat.

S E E D E D   C O N T E N T


Nearly   73,000 wildfires   have decimated the Amazon rainforest this year, a record amount for an ecosystem that produces   20% of Earth's oxygen . From celebrities and politicians throughout the world to locals, frustration and mourning continues to mount over the amount of man-made devastation in the Amazon.

Brazil's space research center INPE has reported a recent 84% increase in forest fires from the same period in 2018. NASA satellite images showed the smoke all the way from space. It traveled to nearby cities and those even thousands of miles away such as Sao Paulo, Brazil.

Environmentalists say humans are the   root cause   of the Amazon fires — not wind or heat. The surge has coincided with the arrival of right-wing Brazilian President Jair Bolsonaro, who critics feel has emboldened farmers and ranchers to clear land to create pastures, therefore speeding up the rate of deforestation.

Despite no evidence, Bolsonaro blamed nongovernmental organizations (NGOs) for the fires again Thursday,   BBC News reported . He also said there aren't enough resources to fight the fires, but stated the government is investigating.

How to help the Amazon rainforest


The Amazon is the largest rainforest in the world and vital to combating   climate change . In the aftermath of the wildfires, several organizations have stepped up to assist in aid or other ways to help save the Amazon. The following organizations have been rated 4 out of 5 stars by   Charity Navigator , a non-profit that evaluates financial health, transparency and accountability in charities.


  • Amazon Conservation Team   fights climate change, protect the Amazon and empower indigenous peoples. 


  • Amazon Conservation Association   accepts donations and lists exactly what your money goes toward –– whether it's planting trees, sponsoring education, buying a solar panel and preserving indigenous lands.

  • Donate to the  Rainforest Trust  to help buy land in the rainforest. The organization has saved over 23 million acres and counting since 1988.  

  • The   Rainforest Foundation   is committed to making sure donations made reaches projects such as supporting environmental defenders, indigenous advocacy organizations and deforestation monitoring. 

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TᵢG
1  seeder  TᵢG    one month ago
Nearly   73,000 wildfires   have decimated the Amazon rainforest this year, a record amount for an ecosystem that produces   20% of Earth's oxygen .

20% of the oxygen for the planet is produced by this ecosystem.

 
 
 
JBB
1.1  JBB  replied to  TᵢG @1    one month ago

20% of Earth's oxygen used to come from this ecosystem...

 
 
 
WallyW
1.1.1  WallyW  replied to  JBB @1.1    one month ago

The hypoxia crisis is coming to location near you soon.

The only solution is to rid the planet of humans and cows.

 
 
 
Larry Hampton
1.1.2  Larry Hampton  replied to  WallyW @1.1.1    4 weeks ago

The only solution is to rid the planet of humans and cows.

...or morons.

 
 
 
Raven Wing
1.1.3  Raven Wing  replied to  Larry Hampton @1.1.2    4 weeks ago

jrSmiley_79_smiley_image.gif

 
 
 
kpr37
1.2  kpr37  replied to  TᵢG @1    4 weeks ago

The sky is falling, the sky is falling, oh my, cried chicken little. The claim that the Amazon rainforrest supplies 20% of the world oxygen is a lie also.

"Amazon rainforest is burning at an unprecedented rate," declares CNN. The Daily Beast gives us "Record Number of Wildfires Burning in Amazon Rainforest." Here's NBC News: " Amazon wildfires could be 'game over' for climate change fight ."

Interestingly, when NASA released the satellite image on August 21, it noted that "it is not unusual to see fires in Brazil at this time of year due to high temperatures and low humidity. Time will tell if this year is a record breaking or just within normal limits."

So why are there so many fires? "Natural fires in the Amazon are rare, and the majority of these fires were set by farmers preparing Amazon-adjacent farmland for next year's crops and pasture," soberly explains The New York Times . "Much of the land that is burning was not old-growth rain forest, but land that had already been cleared of trees and set for agricultural use."

It is routine for farmers and ranchers in tropical areas burn their fields to control pests and weeds and to encourage new growth in pastures.

https://reason.com/2019/08/23/dont-panic-amazon-burning-is-mostly-farms-not-forests/

 
 
 
kpr37
1.2.1  kpr37  replied to  kpr37 @1.2    4 weeks ago

As Dr. Jonathan Foley explained in a lengthy Twitter thread, the Amazon represents at most approximately 6% of the world’s oxygen production, and it is “biologically and physically impossible for the Amazon to produce 20% of the world’s oxygen.” And in reality, even that 6% is likely an overestimation, given that oxygen production from plant growth is offset by the decomposition from plant death. https://climatenexus.org/climate-change-news/amazon-burning-not-an-oxygen-problem-20-figure-at-least-three-times-too-high

 
 
 
 
kpr37
1.2.3  kpr37  replied to  Perrie Halpern R.A. @1.2.2    4 weeks ago

Both links seemed to work when I clicked them?

 
 
 
Texan1211
1.2.4  Texan1211  replied to  kpr37 @1.2.3    4 weeks ago

They both worked just fine for me, too.

 
 
 
Kavika
2  Kavika     one month ago

You can thank ''Captain Chainsaw'' the president of Brazil for this unfolding disaster.

 
 
 
Dean Moriarty
2.1  Dean Moriarty  replied to  Kavika @2    one month ago

NPR was just reporting those that are opposed to him might be deliberately starting the fires.  

 
 
 
Kavika
2.1.1  Kavika   replied to  Dean Moriarty @2.1    one month ago

And ''Captain Chainsaw'' said that it looks like the fires are from illegal loggers and ranchers.

 
 
 
Kathleen
3  Kathleen    one month ago

Perhaps I will donate to a organization for the cause.  I have many trees on my property and they give me great pleasure.  I hate to see something like this happen.  We need to take care of our forests.

 
 
 
Enoch
3.1  Enoch  replied to  Kathleen @3    one month ago

Dear Friend Kathleen: If we don't take care of vegetation, trees included they cannot take care of us.

Unlike plants, we can choose to harm and help.

Good points all.

P&AB.

Enoch.

 
 
 
cjcold
3.2  cjcold  replied to  Kathleen @3    4 weeks ago

Been planting several trees a year out here at my little house on the prairie.

Mostly fruit and nut trees. Why waste space on planting a tree that can't feed you? 

The problem being that the deer keep eating them and the freezer is full.

The other problem being that the borer beetles have killed my two ancient walnuts.

 
 
 
MUVA
4  MUVA    one month ago

The poor Brazilians  are making farm land and charcoal from the fires maybe they should just starve so judgmental Americans can feel better.

 
 
 
WallyW
4.1  WallyW  replied to  MUVA @4    one month ago

The environmentalist whackos will invent a way to blame the fires on right wingers and Trump.

 
 
 
MUVA
4.1.1  MUVA  replied to  WallyW @4.1    one month ago

They been burning forest for years for farm land and charcoal in some areas charcoal is the only means for cooking.Telling poor people in third world countries how to use their resources is in vogue now to the self righteous types.

 
 
 
TᵢG
4.2  seeder  TᵢG  replied to  MUVA @4    one month ago

People complain about measures to mitigate climate change yet our forests are a significant natural mechanism that is already in place and free of charge for recapturing carbon from the air.    In addition, these rain forests supply ⅕ of the world's oxygen.   Ultimately we are all in this together as we all have one thing in common — we depend upon the planet for our continued survival.

 
 
 
MUVA
4.2.1  MUVA  replied to  TᵢG @4.2    one month ago

Are you cooking with charcoal or living in a area with no power or a store to buy food ?

 
 
 
MUVA
4.2.2  MUVA  replied to  TᵢG @4.2    one month ago

I understand but telling other people’s how to use the resources at their feet is awfully first world of the judge-mental crowd.

 
 
 
MUVA
4.2.3  MUVA  replied to  TᵢG @4.2    one month ago

You are not a better person because you believe climate change the virtue singling of some on these subjects is sicking this comment isn’t directed at you as you always seem to facts first.

 
 
 
TᵢG
4.2.4  seeder  TᵢG  replied to  MUVA @4.2.1    one month ago

Your rebuttal would be to an argument to not use any natural resources or one that suggests we put an end to all carbon producing practices.

That is not even remotely close to what I wrote.   It is a strawman argument.

Given this topic is about a single factor with substantial impact on the environment and you chose to jump to a strawman rebuttal, it seems to me that you would argue that any measure to mitigate emitting CO2 into the atmosphere is pointless or excessive.    Is that true?

 
 
 
TᵢG
4.2.5  seeder  TᵢG  replied to  MUVA @4.2.2    one month ago
I understand but telling other people’s how to use the resources at their feet is awfully first world of the judge-mental crowd.

My comment was not judgmental; it is a practical statement based on science.   I made no comment on the people;  my focus was on the effects of damaging the rain forest.

You are not a better person because you believe climate change the virtue singling of some on these subjects is sicking this comment isn’t directed at you as you always seem to facts first.

You are making this personal now?   

 
 
 
MrFrost
4.2.6  MrFrost  replied to  MUVA @4.2.2    4 weeks ago
I understand but telling other people’s how to use the resources at their feet

If using those resources impacts me or my family, (or the planet), you're damn right I am going to do what I can to stop them. 

Would it bother you if I dumped all my used oil on your property? Yes. Same principal. You seem to have the attitude of, "well, it doesn't affect me directly, so I don't care". Really really sad. 

 
 
 
MUVA
4.2.7  MUVA  replied to  MrFrost @4.2.6    4 weeks ago

Then stop using your computer and driving your car don’t fly do eat meat put up  or [Deleted]

 
 
 
MUVA
4.2.8  MUVA  replied to  TᵢG @4.2.4    4 weeks ago

What I’m saying is it is easy sitting in America in a air conditioned house with food in the fridge to tell third world people how to use their resources.Go back and look at my comments I went out of my way to tell my comments weren’t directed at you.

 
 
 
MUVA
4.2.9  MUVA  replied to  MrFrost @4.2.6    4 weeks ago

Dumping oil isn’t the same as using the resources at your feet [deleted]

 
 
 
TᵢG
4.2.10  seeder  TᵢG  replied to  MUVA @4.2.8    4 weeks ago
What I’m saying is it is easy sitting in America in a air conditioned house with food in the fridge to tell third world people how to use their resources.Go back and look at my comments I went out of my way to tell my comments weren’t directed at you.

When you REPLY to my comment you are explicitly speaking to me.   If you were not responding to what I wrote then it would be better to not REPLY.   Just POST a new comment.

Given I said nothing about the people and focused exclusively on the science, your repeated comments such as: 'sitting in America in an air conditioned house ...' do not apply.   Maybe use those comments in REPLY to those who are attacking the people rather than speaking of environmental science and the collective importance of humankind worldwide to make better decisions in support of future generations.

 
 
 
MUVA
4.2.11  MUVA  replied to  TᵢG @4.2.10    4 weeks ago

That is what I said look at my comments again I was speaking in general and even in one post told you that my post wasn’t directed at you.

 
 
 
MUVA
4.2.12  MUVA  replied to  TᵢG @4.2.10    4 weeks ago

I’m not attacking you just commenting on the fact that virtue singling on every climate issue is getting sicking.What I’m saying in general it is easy when you have everything to tell people with nothing  to curb their use of resources because you believe in global what ever.

 
 
 
TᵢG
4.2.13  seeder  TᵢG  replied to  MUVA @4.2.11    4 weeks ago

I read your comments again, MUVA, before responding @4.2.10.   I saw your single qualification in passing.   Now, with your qualification considered again, I am confident that if someone REPLYs to one of your comments that you will take that to mean they are speaking to you and not in general.    If one is speaking in general, one typically POSTs.   

What I’m saying in general it is easy when you have everything to tell people with nothing  to curb their use of resources because you believe in global what ever.

Yes, I understood that.   I have already responded to you on that point.   Yes it is easy for people to criticize others.   Granted.   You understand that since I am focused on the science and the future of the planet that I really have no interest in debating armchair quarterbacking.   The environment that sustains us all and all future generations is, in my opinion, vastly more important than the fact that human beings are critical of others.

 
 
 
MrFrost
4.2.14  MrFrost  replied to  MUVA @4.2.7    4 weeks ago

Then stop using your computer and driving your car don’t fly do eat meat put up  or [Deleted]

Um, yea, I sold my gas guzzler a few years ago and now I ride my bike most of the time. I can't decipher the rest of your sentence. Not trying to be rude, it just doesn't make sense. 

 
 
 
MrFrost
4.2.15  MrFrost  replied to  MUVA @4.2.9    4 weeks ago
Dumping oil isn’t the same as using the resources at your feet when you have nothing your white privilege is glaring.Have you ever been out of this country?

I have been all over the world, it's part of that, "U.S.M.C." thing. So then you would be ok with me dumping my oil on your property?

Now you're going to try race baiting? Wow, I am done with you. 

 
 
 
Raven Wing
4.2.16  Raven Wing  replied to  TᵢG @4.2.5    4 weeks ago
on the effects of damaging the rain forest.

Surprisingly, in a year in time with such modern technology, what many either fail, or refuse, to understand, is that the the rainforest is Mother Earth's last bastion against human destruction. 

The rainforest has existed for thousands, if not millions of years, and is the basis of life for Mother Earth and all that dwells upon her. 

The almighty dollar has now become more important than human and other life here on earth. Those who greedily engage in and support the destruction of the rainforest for money will pay a far, far higher price than they will ever achieve in profits in their time here on earth.

There is a Native American Proverb that is very true;

384

Man does not live on the earth alone, and Man does not have the right to make decisions for all other life that shares it. 

384

It is our duty to those who will come after us to leave them a better world, not make it worse than when we found it.

 
 
 
MUVA
4.2.17  MUVA  replied to  MrFrost @4.2.14    4 weeks ago

[deleted]

 
 
 
TᵢG
4.2.18  seeder  TᵢG  replied to  MUVA @4.2.17    4 weeks ago

Short of the most extreme fringe environmentalists, most people are not advocating that modern society cease using resources and resort to an Amish lifestyle.

We can be more sensible about how we use our resources and how we impact our environment.    I do not see anyone here advocating people on the planet abandon modern conveniences.   Do you?

 
 
 
MUVA
4.2.19  MUVA  replied to  TᵢG @4.2.18    4 weeks ago

I'm not. I'm also not for burning the rain forest I am against telling people in third world countries how to use their resources when they have no alternative or are basically trying to survive.I have been all over the world first surfing then in the navy the poverty in some of the countries is enough to make people make a 2000 mile trek and sneak into this country.

 
 
 
TᵢG
4.2.20  seeder  TᵢG  replied to  MUVA @4.2.19    4 weeks ago
I am against telling people in third world countries how to use their resources when they have no alternative or are basically trying to survive.

Understood.   The point I am making is that the planet is a shared resource regardless of who 'owns' particular facets.   When one nation pollutes or destroys that which we all depend upon then that is a problem.   If the resource is something that has significant impact on the environment then the problem is even more acute.

People commenting on this article seem to be focusing on the problems of burning the rain forest rather than pissing all over the people.   So your constant defense of the people seems out of place.   I know that in my case, even though I have focused exclusively on the environmental aspects, I have spent a lot of time with you on the people issue — as if my point had been to badmouth the Brazilians.   

 
 
 
MUVA
4.2.21  MUVA  replied to  TᵢG @4.2.20    4 weeks ago

How much money would you be willing to send to a third world country for them to stop what they are doing?

 
 
 
TᵢG
4.2.22  seeder  TᵢG  replied to  MUVA @4.2.21    4 weeks ago

Is there a proposal?   If you are talking about money then let's see the plan.   Generally, this is not something that will work through bribes;  there needs to be a desired and supporting commitment from those in charge of the resources to be responsible caretakers of global resources.

 
 
 
MUVA
4.2.23  MUVA  replied to  TᵢG @4.2.22    4 weeks ago

The only proposal I have seen is a carbon tax that may save the planet but would definitely make some leftist rich beyond their wildest dream since they will control it .That is why I say Al gore put up maybe park the jet for awhile.

 
 
 
Drakkonis
4.2.24  Drakkonis  replied to  MUVA @4.2.21    4 weeks ago

I get your point, which seems to be we can't address solutions to the problems besetting the Amazon rain forest without also addressing the problems those solutions may cause for the people that live there. If so, I happen to agree with you and I applaud you for your concern. However, the Amazon is one of the major engines that produce the climate we have today. Without it, we will, not may, but will have something entirely different as a climate. There are something like 7.7 billion people, not to mention the trillions of other life forms on this planet that depend on the Amazon to function. Something must be done and national sovereignty is not a factor with so much at stake. 

That said, you also have a valid point concerning what we, in first world countries, are willing to do to solve the problem. The first world has a consumerism problem, in my opinion, which adds to the problem. If people would be satisfied with less, I think it would help a lot. But, it will not help with the Amazon problem at all. Even if the rest of the world abandoned tech and went back to nature entirely it would have no impact at all on our need to deal with what is going on in the Amazon. If the rest of the world managed zero emissions it would be for nothing if we lose the Amazon. 

Like you, I've been around. I've been to the Middle East, Central America, Africa and other places. I've seen the poverty. I've seen Somali's lined up for blocks to fill their water containers from a 3/4 inch pipe our water purification unit stuck through a wall so that they could have access to the only clean water they ever saw. I've watched simple farmers still using oxen to plow their fields. I've seen children in rags playing in the dirt that was the street in front of their hovels. In short, I know what you are talking about. But, Imagine how much worse it is going to be for such people if we lose the Amazon. I'm pretty sure it wouldn't be good for us and even worse for them.

Most likely, nothing is going to be done about it. No one is going to make money from trying to. Kudo's to TiG for posting links as to how we can help but, in my opinion, of all the options I've seen so far, the only one that has any chance is directly buying the land and even then, I don't think that will work.

Imagine the rest of the world manages to buy enough of the Amazon to make a difference. That's going to take a lot of money, as a significant portion will go to pay off the people in power there. It might work for a while, but the hardship it will place on the population that lives there will be tremendous. They can no longer exploit the resources of their country. They are going to suffer and starve. That will put pressure on those in power and, eventually, they will have to open it all back up to the people again, regardless of the fact we've paid for the rights to it. It will be that or be overthrown.  The only way I see it working is if we subsidize the entire population. 

 
 
 
MUVA
4.2.25  MUVA  replied to  Drakkonis @4.2.24    4 weeks ago

Exactly I do how ever under the need to preserve the rain forest but a little less sanctimony would be nice and just a little consideration of the effects on the people that live there would be nice. 

 
 
 
Drakkonis
4.2.26  Drakkonis  replied to  MUVA @4.2.25    4 weeks ago

Agreed. Unlikely to happen, but agreed. That's human nature, unfortunately. 

 
 
 
MUVA
4.2.27  MUVA  replied to  Drakkonis @4.2.26    4 weeks ago

Everything is made political now it seems the biggest offenders are the judgmental crowd the I'm better than you because of what I believe people.I thought the moral majority where bad they don't have shit on some of left now find someone to blame demonize repeat. 

 
 
 
Drakkonis
4.2.28  Drakkonis  replied to  MUVA @4.2.27    4 weeks ago

You might be being a little hard on them. What you say pretty much applies to all of us, really. To be sure, I think the left suffers from this condition more than the right, but we all seem to feel our beliefs justify our actions. This actually has a lot to do with why I put my faith in God. 

To explain, as I said before there are something like 7.7 billion people on the planet, now. Every single one of them have wants and desires. Every one of them is trying to fulfill some perceived need, want or desire. It's like watching a demonstration of Brownian motion. So many ideologies, so many ways of fulfilling them. Some good, some bad. Books have been written about what we need to do to achieve utopia. Movies made. Speeches written. Actions taken. All to no real effect. We always end up the same. Nothing really changes except the scale. No matter how good something begins, rot always creeps in and destroys it. 

Pretty dismal, huh? But I think there's light at the end of the tunnel. An answer that is reaching out His hand if only I would take it. An explanation as to why we are the way we are and what we can do about it. Someone with an answer and the power to make it work. This world is doomed. We don't have it within ourselves to do any better. But I believe God has the answer. Not for this world, but for us as individuals, and if we listen, if we follow, then when this world is gone and the new one established, well, we do not have the capacity to imagine how wonderful it will be. 

 
 
 
Gordy327
4.3  Gordy327  replied to  MUVA @4    4 weeks ago
The poor Brazilians  are making farm land and charcoal from the fires maybe they should just starve so judgmental Americans can feel better.

Rainforest soil is not suited for agriculture. So farm lands may have initial good yields, but will quickly decrease in production. So the problem of feeding returns. Except now you have a devastated ecosystem along with it. 

Telling poor people in third world countries how to use their resources is in vogue now to the self righteous types.

No, it's about using resources reasonably and responsibly. Apparently, some people or countries do not see the bigger picture here.

 
 
 
MUVA
4.3.1  MUVA  replied to  Gordy327 @4.3    4 weeks ago

This is about virtue singling from afar you should go to the rain forest and tell the guy trying to survive your thoughts maybe you convince them of your moral superiority.   

 
 
 
Gordy327
4.3.2  Gordy327  replied to  MUVA @4.3.1    4 weeks ago

This isn't about morality or superiority. It's about identifying and addressing a problem, which will eventually affect us all if unchecked. And the guy trying to survive still isn't going to survive much longer if the rainforests are destroyed. 

 
 
 
MUVA
4.3.3  MUVA  replied to  Gordy327 @4.3.2    4 weeks ago

He certainly  isn't going to survive if he can support him and his family.So when are you going to the amazon to set these people straight.  

 
 
 
Gordy327
4.3.4  Gordy327  replied to  MUVA @4.3.3    4 weeks ago

Clearing the rainforest isn't going to solve that problem. Agriculture is unsustainable in rainforest soil. So the poor Brazilian guy will be right back where he started. I guess he's screwed then! 

 
 
 
It Is ME
5  It Is ME    one month ago

Just Re-Plant.

It's done everyday !

MY Prayers are with Brazil and it's Peoples. jrSmiley_99_smiley_image.jpg

 
 
 
Tessylo
5.1  Tessylo  replied to  It Is ME @5    4 weeks ago

So it's as simplistic as re-planting

jrSmiley_78_smiley_image.gif

 
 
 
It Is ME
5.1.1  It Is ME  replied to  Tessylo @5.1    4 weeks ago
So it's as simplistic as re-planting

It's done all the time on this planet. jrSmiley_78_smiley_image.gif

 
 
 
Gordy327
5.1.2  Gordy327  replied to  It Is ME @5.1.1    4 weeks ago

That might work with regular woods and forests. Rainforests are a different matter. 

 
 
 
Perrie Halpern R.A.
5.2  Perrie Halpern R.A.  replied to  It Is ME @5    4 weeks ago

You can't replant wildlife. All those animals met a miserable death and all the fauna that was there is gone forever. And the real reason this is going on is because of poor farming practices. 

 
 
 
It Is ME
5.2.1  It Is ME  replied to  Perrie Halpern R.A. @5.2    4 weeks ago
You can't replant wildlife. All those animals met a miserable death

Wild life is better than Humans on how to survive !

You think "Wildlife" just sat there and let themselves burn to death ?

Suicide by fire ?

 
 
 
Gordy327
5.2.2  Gordy327  replied to  It Is ME @5.2.1    4 weeks ago

How long can you survive being homeless, with no source of sustinence? Animals face that problem when their ecosystem is wiped out. Whole species go extinct that way.

 
 
 
Gordy327
5.3  Gordy327  replied to  It Is ME @5    4 weeks ago
Just Re-Plant.

Rainforests cannot be replanted. Neither can the plant, insect, or animal species native to rainforests and part of the whole ecosystem be replaced. 

 
 
 
It Is ME
5.3.1  It Is ME  replied to  Gordy327 @5.3    4 weeks ago
Rainforests cannot be replanted.

Yes they can.

 
 
 
Paula Bartholomew
5.3.2  Paula Bartholomew  replied to  It Is ME @5.3.1    4 weeks ago

Only to a limited extent. Rain forests are climax forests of great age that are complex ecosystems of plants, animals, bacteria and fungi. Just planting a bunch of rain forest trees will not recreate the ecosystem. In the rain forest many of the plants depend on each other for their survival, many of them need specific fungi in their roots to grow, they need certain insects to pollinate them, etc. It is virtually impossible to recreate a rain forest unless you have thousands of years to do it.

 
 
 
It Is ME
5.3.3  It Is ME  replied to  Paula Bartholomew @5.3.2    4 weeks ago
Only to a limited extent. Rain forests are climax forests of great age that are complex ecosystems of plants, animals, bacteria and fungi.

It only takes Time …. 

We should have been Dying or Dead in 2012 according to ?

But.....We are still here non-the-less !

This is one thing you can actually say, and it would be true ….."This issue is man made" !

Man can "Rebuild" as always !

 
 
 
Raven Wing
5.3.4  Raven Wing  replied to  It Is ME @5.3.1    4 weeks ago

Maybe in your world. But, not in the real world. The rainforest is the only place where many species exist, and once they are gone they can not be replaced. Ever. As those species will no longer exist anywhere on the planet to be replaced. 

 
 
 
Paula Bartholomew
5.3.5  Paula Bartholomew  replied to  It Is ME @5.3.3    4 weeks ago

Never mind.  Facts are lost with you.

 
 
 
Freedom Warrior
5.3.6  Freedom Warrior  replied to  Paula Bartholomew @5.3.2    4 weeks ago

It's been done before, it can be done again.  Maybe better next time.

 
 
 
It Is ME
5.3.7  It Is ME  replied to  Raven Wing @5.3.4    4 weeks ago

 
 
 
Nerm_L
6  Nerm_L    one month ago

So, what are we supposed to do?  Piss in the wind and hope for rain?

Environmentalists killed the ability of the United States to supply its own needs.  NIMBY environmentalists wanted poor countries to wreck their environments so Americans can buy cheap imports and boast about clean air and water.  Just look at how environmentally responsible is the United States!!!  We don't pollute, we import.  And then we ship our trash to poor countries so they have jobs; shitty jobs for sure but nonetheless our benevolence has improved the economic prospects of those poor, poor people.

Brazilian rain forests are being burned so people can get a piece of the free trade pie created by environmentalism.  Why pollute our own country when we can pay poor countries to pollute their's? 

NIMBY environmentalism isn't sustainable.  The burning Brazilian rain forests are proof of that.

 
 
 
Freefaller
6.1  Freefaller  replied to  Nerm_L @6    4 weeks ago
NIMBY environmentalists wanted poor countries to wreck their environments so Americans can buy cheap imports

Yep it's all on the environmentalists and had nothing to do with consumers wanting cheaper products or corporations wanting greater profits.

 
 
 
MUVA
6.1.1  MUVA  replied to  Freefaller @6.1    4 weeks ago

In some cases people are just trying to survive and don’t need environmentalist to tell them what is best for them.

 
 
 
Nerm_L
6.1.2  Nerm_L  replied to  Freefaller @6.1    4 weeks ago
Yep it's all on the environmentalists and had nothing to do with consumers wanting cheaper products or corporations wanting greater profits.

When did the Environmental Protection Agency begin regulating consumers?  Environmentalists have placed the onus on domestic manufacturers, not on consumers.  Consumers are still allowed to buy whatever is imported.  And EPA turns a blind eye toward exported trash.

Yes, NIMBY environmentalists share a large responsibility for the Brazilian forest fires.  Instead of demanding sustainable environmental management, the arm chair environmentalists have been demanding Not In My Back Yard.

 
 
 
Freefaller
6.1.3  Freefaller  replied to  Nerm_L @6.1.2    4 weeks ago
When did the Environmental Protection Agency begin regulating consumers?

I have no idea where that question came from, but also don't care so I won't delve further into it

Environmentalists have placed the onus on domestic manufacturers, not on consumers.  Consumers are still allowed to buy whatever is imported.  And EPA turns a blind eye toward exported trash.

No shit

environmentalists share a large responsibility for the Brazilian forest fires.

We don't disagree that environmentalism is a part of the problem I just think consumers and corporations (and probably a bunch of other factors) all combined to create this any many other issues

 
 
 
Nerm_L
6.1.4  Nerm_L  replied to  MUVA @6.1.1    4 weeks ago
In some cases people are just trying to survive and don’t need environmentalist to tell them what is best for them.

Monoculture farming isn't a means of subsistence.  And it isn't sustainable.  

The Indonesian and Malaysian rain forests were decimated to establish palm oil plantations for the export markets.  That's what's happening to South American rain forests, too.  It isn't about survival, it's about money.

 
 
 
Nerm_L
6.1.5  Nerm_L  replied to  Freefaller @6.1.3    4 weeks ago
We don't disagree that environmentalism is a part of the problem I just think consumers and corporations (and probably a bunch of other factors) all combined to create this any many other issues

Environmentalists actually believe that southeast Asian countries or eastern European countries or South American countries are capable of producing these consumer goods with less environmental impact than can be done in the United States?

The problem is that environmentalists focused attention on clean air and water in their own backyards without considering the sustainability of consumer products.  Environmentalists demanded closing domestic lands and protecting domestic resources while turning a blind eye to open borders.  Public funds have been funneled into feel good science rather than developing sustainable consumer products.

Consumers are going to consume; that only states the obvious.  But consumers don't know how products are produced.  Consumers buy whatever is available without considering the sustainability of what they buy.  Sustainable products require investment in applied science and engineering to develop products that are sustainable.  And once that initial investment has been recovered, then sustainable products doesn't have to cost more.

 
 
 
MUVA
6.1.6  MUVA  replied to  Nerm_L @6.1.4    4 weeks ago

You only seem to to know part of the story not surprising have you ever been to Brazil?   

 
 
 
Paula Bartholomew
6.1.7  Paula Bartholomew  replied to  MUVA @6.1.6    4 weeks ago

Have you?

 
 
 
MUVA
6.1.8  MUVA  replied to  Paula Bartholomew @6.1.7    4 weeks ago

Yes I have several time in my younger days I surfed all over the world Brazil,Peru,and many others any other questions? 

 
 
 
Nerm_L
6.1.9  Nerm_L  replied to  MUVA @6.1.6    4 weeks ago
You only seem to to know part of the story not surprising have you ever been to Brazil?   

I haven't been to Brazil.  I have no reason to go.  And I can't justify the carbon emissions for personal aggrandizement.

I don't need to travel to Brazil to understand that the country is increasingly dependent on agribusiness and monoculture farming to sustain economic growth.  

As Brazilian agribusiness booms, family farms feed the nation

Global trade works the same everywhere and respects no national borders.  Monoculture agribusiness will force people to migrate to cities because subsistence farming can't provide a sustainable lifestyle.  Brazil is traveling down the same path as the United States.  And the same thing is happening in other South American countries.

 
 
 
MUVA
6.1.10  MUVA  replied to  Nerm_L @6.1.9    4 weeks ago

I would say meet these poor people before you judge them.

 
 
 
Nerm_L
6.1.11  Nerm_L  replied to  MUVA @6.1.10    4 weeks ago
I would say meet these poor people before you judge them.

I'm not judging Brazilians.  I'm judging Americans who believed they are divinely ordained to speak for others while those very same self righteous Americans contribute to the problems they are outraged about.  

I've met poor people.  I don't need to travel halfway around the world to find them.  They live among us.  

So, I'm judged because I haven't burned tons of diesel fuel and warmed the planet to earn world traveler cred?  How very narrow minded of me.  

 
 
 
MUVA
6.1.12  MUVA  replied to  Nerm_L @6.1.11    4 weeks ago

Okay I under your point now it is basically the same as mine maybe all the self righteous types can pull their money and help these people instead of telling them how to live.The poor in this country have zero compared to Indonesia or Brazil Peru and so on I do judge people so your dig at me falls flat.

 
 
 
Nerm_L
6.1.13  Nerm_L  replied to  MUVA @6.1.12    4 weeks ago
Okay I under your point now it is basically the same as mine maybe all the self righteous types can pull their money and help these people instead of telling them how to live.The poor in this country have zero compared to Indonesia or Brazil Peru and so on I do judge people so your dig at me falls flat.

But Americans do pool their money.  The United States is sending $2.5 trillion to other countries every year.  The people of Brazil only need to clear the forests and pollute their land, water, and air to obtain a share.  Sending dollars to Brazil only requires shopping at Walmart or on Amazon or at the local bistro.

The United States spending on imports is about twice the Federal discretionary budget.  Americans are spending more to encourage other countries wrecking their environments than is being spent to protect our own environment.  In fact, Americans are sending their trash to other countries and deliberately wrecking the environments of other countries to protect their own backyards.

Environmentalists have forced Brazilians into the position of burning their own forests to obtain a share of pooled American dollars.  The United States can no longer produce what it consumes; we must protect our environment.  So, Americans depend upon other countries producing for them without concern over those other country's environments.  The problems aren't in Americans' back yards so they aren't really problems.

 
 
 
MrFrost
7  MrFrost    4 weeks ago
Environmentalists say humans are the root cause of the Amazon fires — not wind or heat.

So, this is literally proof of man made global warming. 

 
 
 
MUVA
7.1  MUVA  replied to  MrFrost @7    4 weeks ago

Man made deforestation maybe unless you are say it is making it hotter because of the fire.

 
 
 
MrFrost
7.1.1  MrFrost  replied to  MUVA @7.1    4 weeks ago
Man made deforestation maybe unless you are say it is making it hotter because of the fire.

Yea, I am sure all that smoke is totally healthy to breathe. [eye roll]

 
 
 
Raven Wing
7.1.2  Raven Wing  replied to  MrFrost @7.1.1    4 weeks ago

Humans don't have to worry about their God destroying the planet, ignorant humans are doing a very good job of that all by themselves. 

The rainforest is the gift from the Creator to Man to help ensure their existence, and once Man has destroyed it, Man will not longer exist as well. And it can't be blamed on any deity.

 
 
 
MrFrost
7.1.3  MrFrost  replied to  Raven Wing @7.1.2    4 weeks ago

Spot on, well said. 

 
 
 
Split Personality
7.1.4  Split Personality  replied to  MUVA @7.1    4 weeks ago

Why do you think the farmers are impoverished and helpless?

Who exactly is telling big Agra in Brazil how to operate in the vast Brazilian interior?

You are quick to jump to conclusions based on other peoples positions versus your surfing expeditions of many years ago.

How many surfing expeditions were in the rain forest?

Brazil’s vast farms are getting ready. SLC Agricola SA -- which cultivates an area bigger than Rhode Island with soybeans, corn and cotton -- has been training technicians to analyze data from the fields. The Sao Paulo-listed company has also created a special committee to guarantee information security and evaluate hundreds of apps submitted for its use by software developers.

The country’s sugarcane mills are also gearing up. With a fleet of more than 2,000 vehicles, Sao Martinho is building a network of transmission towers to integrate field activities over 300,000 hectares (740,000 acres) with a central control center that would help anticipate fueling requirements and mechanical problems.

512

Brazil doesn't have tens of thousands of share croppers vying for farming space,  they have new clients in China that needs to replace all of the crops they once bought from the USA.

Brazil's main exports include soybeans , coffee , tobacco , cocoa , beef , poultry , orange juice , raw cane and refined sugar , iron ore and concentrates, oil seed , and mineral fuels. Brazil's economy is export-oriented, and it is the world's largest exporter of coffee, soybeans , orange juice , tobacco, and raw cane and refined sugar

https://www.reference.com/geography/brazil-s-main-exports-c1e9d7d85db2bc05

They export most of what they grow and they are planning to grow more to export.

 
 
 
MUVA
7.1.5  MUVA  replied to  Split Personality @7.1.4    4 weeks ago

You may want to actually read and understand my point [deleted]

 
 
 
WallyW
7.2  WallyW  replied to  MrFrost @7    4 weeks ago
So, this is literally proof of man made global warming.

And you still have no solution

 
 
 
charger 383
8  charger 383    4 weeks ago

Overpopulation is the real problem

 
 
 
bbl-1
9  bbl-1    4 weeks ago

The Rainforest is being 'cleared' because of the great potential of Brazilian Soybean trade with China.  Mr. Trump has no comprehension of what he is doing with 'his personal trade war' and in a way is also responsible for this.

Also.  Once these American markets are lost it will be difficult to attain them again.  And this falls directly on the American Agriculture community which lacked the understanding of what Donald Trump was and is.  Their support for him was a grave error on their part.

 
 
 
Kavika
10  Kavika     4 weeks ago

Deforestation in the Amazon rain forest has been going on for a while. Illegal logging and gold mining are the two main culprits. A number of indigenous people have been murdered by the illegal logging and gold mining scum. 

The President of Brazil, Jair Bolsonaro has opened up the protected areas and the indigenous lands of the Amazon to logging and now you're seeing the result.  

The indigenous people of the Amazon are now taking up weapons to defend their lands from this invasion. 

https://www.reuters.tv/v/PIaC/2019/08/23/amazon-tribe-vows-to-protect-sacred-land

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-brazil-environment/brazilian-states-ask-for-military-help-as-amazon-fires-rage-idUSKCN1VE0KP

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7383049/Amazon-rainforests-worst-fires-records-began-blamed-farmers-loggers.html

https://returntonow.net/2018/11/06/brazils-new-president-genocide-indigenous-amazonians/

 
 
 
Raven Wing
10.1  Raven Wing  replied to  Kavika @10    4 weeks ago
The President of Brazil, Jair Bolsonaro has opened up the protected areas and the indigenous lands of the Amazon to logging and now you're seeing the result.

True, and there is no doubt that Bolsonaro is getting a heft kickback for doing so. After all, he does not live in the rainforest, nor does his life or that of his family depend on it. Now, anyway. But, tomorrow is another day, and what he may gain with his greed will not serve him well, or his descendants who will come after him. But, what the heck....they can take all their money with them when they walk on. Right?  ?? 

But, like many others, they are the only ones who matter, and those who are left after they walk on can kick rocks for all they care. I am sure their deity will be very happy about how much they appreciated their gift of life from Him.  /s

 
 
 
Greg Jones
11  Greg Jones    4 weeks ago

Not our country.

Not our forests.

Not our problem....or business.

 
 
 
Raven Wing
11.1  Raven Wing  replied to  Greg Jones @11    4 weeks ago
Not our problem....or business.

That kind of thinking will bring earth's destruction even sooner. 

But, hey....I can see your point....you won't be alive when that happens, and maybe none of your descendants will be either. So who cares if the world ceases to exist. Right?

 
 
 
Freedom Warrior
11.1.1  Freedom Warrior  replied to  Raven Wing @11.1    4 weeks ago
So who cares if the world ceases to exist.

That's so silly.  The world will be just fine without us.

 
 
 
Raven Wing
11.1.2  Raven Wing  replied to  Freedom Warrior @11.1.1    3 weeks ago
That's so silly.  The world will be just fine without us.

The only one silly here is YOU. But, if that is your world view....enjoy.

 
 
 
Freedom Warrior
11.1.3  Freedom Warrior  replied to  Raven Wing @11.1.2    3 weeks ago

OMG! The end of the world is coming. Again!  

Well of course it's not really the end of the world of this case.  It was around for billions of years before us and probably will be after us.

 
 
 
TᵢG
11.1.4  seeder  TᵢG  replied to  Freedom Warrior @11.1.3    3 weeks ago
It was around for billions of years before us and probably will be after us.

You have stated a correct, specific fact!   Your prediction seems likely too.

Of course the concern in this seed is not that the planet will be destroyed but rather that our environment will degrade.   The concern in this seed is for life on the planet, not the planet itself.

 
 
 
Freedom Warrior
11.1.5  Freedom Warrior  replied to  TᵢG @11.1.4    3 weeks ago

[Deleted]

 
 
 
TᵢG
11.1.6  seeder  TᵢG  replied to  Freedom Warrior @11.1.5    3 weeks ago

So you agree that you missed the point of the seed.

 
 
 
Freedom Warrior
11.1.7  Freedom Warrior  replied to  TᵢG @11.1.6    3 weeks ago

 No of course not, you missed the point of the comment as usual.

 
 
 
Freedom Warrior
12  Freedom Warrior    4 weeks ago

So the conclusion is there is not much we can do to prevent deforestation in Brazilian rain forests and we are all going to die.

I kinda already figured that. 

 
 
 
Greg Jones
12.1  Greg Jones  replied to  Freedom Warrior @12    4 weeks ago

The virtuous climate change crazies have to come here and proclaim how they love the planet and how they want to save it, while doing nothing except blabbering empty words..

 
 
 
Freedom Warrior
12.1.1  Freedom Warrior  replied to  Greg Jones @12.1    4 weeks ago

Another one of their obvious hypocritical delusions.  They can't seem to manage the health of their own cities under their political control but can somehow magically come up with a plan to save the planet.

 
 
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