Photos indicate North Korea may be building submarine capable of launching nuclear missiles
S E E D E D C O N T E N T
Satellite photos indicate North Korea is building a ballistic missile submarine and may be making preparations to test a submarine-launched missile, according to an analysis of the commercial images by experts at a Washington-based think tank.
The photos of Sinpo South Shipyard taken Monday appear to confirm reports by North Korean state media of a “newly built submarine” inspected by the country’s leader, Kim Jong Un , in July, according to Joseph Bermudez and Victor Cha of Beyond Parallel, a research project funded by the Center for Strategic and International Studies (CSIS).
The photos show support vessels and a crane that, similar to past practice by the regime, could be deployed to tow a barge out to sea for a submarine-launched missile test, the analysts said in a written report .
But the two analysts said it was unclear when a test might be carried out, saying “there is no conclusive evidence at the moment that this is a near-term certainty.”
Despite North Korea media reports claiming that the new submarine's deployment is “near at hand,” the analysts said it is more accurate to describe the ballistic missile submarine threat as “emerging rather than imminent.”
Overview of the Sinpo South Shipyard as seen on August 26, 2018. Airbus
Even after it is built, it would take a year or more to test the submarine and render it fully operational, Bermudez and Cha said.
Still, persistent activity at the site over the past three years signals that North Korea is moving closer to securing a capability that would give the regime an alternative means of delivering nuclear weapons, and one that would be harder for the United States and its allies to track.
“The construction and commissioning of a true SSB (ballistic missile submarine) capability would represent a significant advancement of the North Korean ballistic missile and nuclear threat and complicate defense planning in the region, given the difficulties of tracking and/or pre-emptively targeting such capabilities,” the analysts said.
The latest “images suggest North Korea is making real progress in developing a second leg of the nuclear triad, bringing them closer to a survivable nuclear force,” the analysts said.
Building a submarine-based nuclear force also would diminish “prospects for full denuclearization,” the report said, which has been a goal of successive U.S. administrations.
President Donald Trump has held two summits with Kim Jong Un to try to persuade the regime to abandon missile and nuclear arsenal in return for the easing of economic sanctions, but so far North Korea has refused. In recent months, North Korea has conducted numerous short-range ballistic missile tests .
North Korea has warned Washington that if it presses ahead with joint military drills with South Korea, it could scrap nuclear talks and resume nuclear and long-range missile testing. The regime has not conducted a long-range missile test since 2017.
Pyongyang said in 2016 that it tested its first submarine-launched ballistic missile. The solid-fuel missile was designed to be carried on the country’s single Sinpo-class submarine, which only has one missile tube. Military analysts have speculated that North Korea could try to build a submarine with multiple tubes.
Satellite photos of the Sinpo South Shipyard and the surrounding area since 2015 have yet to offer conclusive evidence of the construction of a new ballistic missile submarine. But Bermudez and Cha said Tuesday there is “substantial circumstantial evidence,” including, new infrastructure at the site suited to support such a project, improvements to the shipyard’s construction capacity and movement of parts in and out of the site. The Sinpo South Shipyard is one of the few North Korean shipyards capable of constructing submarines and previous submarines were built there.
During the past year, 15 cranes have been installed all along the dock at the shipyard. At other North Korean submarine bases and facilities, similar cranes were used to suspend netting over submarines to inhibit overhead observation, the analysts wrote.
Tags
Who is online
56 visitors
Given technology continues to be increasingly available to more states, how does the world protect itself from a rogue state exercising worldwide destructive power? Is it inevitable?
The USA is a rogue state. We have lots of nukes and we've used them... along with chemical, and biological warfare. Some of that stuff we did to Korea.
Are you aware of the USA history with Korea?
If Korea blew up half of the cities of the USA... they still would not match what we did to their country when it was one country.
My question was about nuclear technology getting into the hands of rogue states who would use it. Criticizing the USA for its nuclear arsenal and how it has used it (Japan) is a very different topic.
My question was:
Given technology continues to be increasingly available to more states, how does the world protect itself from a rogue state exercising worldwide destructive power? Is it inevitable?
Oh that, no you are right about that. You are talking about ephemeralization, yeah that's a definite apocalyptic possibility as tech becomes easier and easier to produce... this means it's availability widens beyond nation states... down to individuals.
If we don't figure out our violence problems... which have very clear causes that we choose to ignore.
We'll kill ourselves again after we die from climate change.
Sounds like you need to brush up on your world history. Korea became divided after WW II and any attacks we made against Korea were after it became North and South Korea. The majority of attacks made were primarily against the North except when they invaded the South and we and other United Nations forces had to strike targets in the South to drive the North Koreans back past the 38th parallel. I have a distinct feeling you are confusing North Korea with Vietnam!
Please be so kind as to state where and when the U.S. has ever used chemical and biological weapons against either North or South Korea, or anywhere else for that matter, and be specific. I really am anxious to hear your response on this one!
Hmmm... maybe I'm ignorant. Could be... seems like I learn something new every day.
So you mentioned this. Since I'm not as educated on this topic as you are I was hoping you could explain it to me in detail.
" we and other United Nations forces had to strike targets in the South to drive the North Koreans back past the 38th parallel."
Why did we have to do that? Keep in mind I'm a world history novitiate...
Go slow...
It's not well known...
Try actually reading it along with all the footnotes.
Very simple. When North Korea invaded the South in !950, they caught the ill equipped and ill trained Republic of South Korea Army by surprise and U.S. forces from Japan landed to help stem the invasion. The North Koreans were armed with Chinese and Soviet equipment and pushed U.S. and South Koreans to an enclave in the Southernmost part of South Korea where they held what was known as the Pusan Perimeter around the port of Pusan. U.S forces had demobilized it's forces in the 5 years following the end of WW II and it took time to rush men and materiel to the region. I'm sure you are familiar with General Douglas MacArthur's famous amphibious landing at Inchon to the North of South Korea. MacArthur's forces then swung South and relieved the Pusan Perimeter. U.S. and Allied forces, with the help of USAF B-29 heavy bombers and other aircraft as well as U.S. and British carrier forces were then able to push the North Koreans out of the South up to and past the 38th Parallel almost all the way to the Chinese border. At that time, The Chinese intervened, invaded, and pushed Allied forces back down to just below the 38th Parallel and captured Seoul for the second time. It then became a war of attrition with neither side gaining ground. Hope this gives you what you asked for, but I have the feeling you probably already knew most of this, didn't you?
Wikipedia is not the most reliable source of info. Definition of allegation: "a claim or assertion that someone has done something illegal or wrong, typically one made without proof." Chinese communists learned their lessons well from the Soviets and were masters of propaganda and torture of prisoners to get them to say what they wanted them to.
Why do you assume I haven't?
This is the part I don't understand.
Oh and this.
"U.S. and South Koreans to a enclave in the Southernmost part of South Korea where they held what was known as the Pusan Perimeter around the port of Pusan. U.S forces had demobilized it's forces in the 5 years following the end of WW II and it took time to rush men and materiel to the region."
If the US forces had demobilized how could they have been pushed into an enclave with South Koreans?
And why were they still there? Was there some vital US public interest at stake in the Koreas?
"Hope this gives you what you asked for, but I have the feeling you probably already knew most of this, didn't you?"
Yup. You are pretty quick, usually I get several comments to be ignorant before the other chat window wakes up.
Damn.
I'm not trying to make claims about the credibility of wiki... although everyone I know uses it when they need it apparently without considering the credibility issue.
You asked me for specifics.
I provided them.
But since you have an aversion to wiki:
" During the course of the three-year war, which both sides accuse one another of provoking, the U.S. dropped 635,000 tons of explosives on North Korea , including 32,557 tons of napalm , an incendiary liquid that can clear forested areas and cause devastating burns to human skin."
Geez... and incendiary liquid that can clear forested areas and cause devastating burns to the human skin... Just seems like there has to be chemistry and chemicals involved in that kind of warfare.
But, I'm ignorant. I suppose I should have studied history.
Simple.
You tried to pass it off as a reference to support your claim of the US using biological weapons in the Korea's.
You did read it the end, nor the footnotes.
Actually Ed, I would say he doesn't. I have encountered this personality type too many times in my life. Open book.
Master of sounding authoritative. In reality not an authority of anything except propaganda.
Correct.
Ed nailed it with this statement:
You would not be so "confused" had you experienced or studied your world history.
BTW, Ed has already provided enough information to remove most of your "confusion".
War is in fact Hell dude! I've been through two, I know...
Correction:
While napalm is a chemical, it does not fall under the category of chemical weapons as defined by the U.N.
Actually it was chemical AND biological weapons. So, why not just quote the stuff you want to talk about?
Thanks dave. I'm off to bed. Have a nice evening.
If it was hell the first time... why did you do it again?
Hmm... sounds like southbound stuff from a north bound porta pottie to me.
Do I care what the UN is forced to say by the US?
The Law is a bunch more of that stuff from the pottie. You know it, and I know it. The law is how wealthy people get you to work your whole life doing what they want instead of what you want.
First principle of law is that it applies to everyone equally... or it's tyranny.
Tyranny has no moral standing to dictate right and wrong... when we both know napalm is chem warfare.
I have encountered the type as well. Just somebody that likes to argue solely for the sake of arguing and going out of their way to see what buttons they can push in the process. That is one way they get their jollies in life. Did not work with me and don't think he likes that.
"The USA is a rogue state. We have lots of nukes and we've used them... along with chemical, and biological warfare. Some of that stuff we did to Korea.
Are you aware of the USA history with Korea?
If Korea blew up half of the cities of the USA... they still would not match what we did to their country when it was one country."
Okay so, enough fun for me, dave. The quote above is my OP on this thread.
Would you mind pointing out the part of my OP in this "seed" where I said that the USA had used bio weapons IN/ON Korea?
I don't believe that I actually went that far.
I did post an article because Navy Ed asked me to... but...
So?
You might want to go back and re read my OP. And realize that I did not ever say the USA used bio weapons ON KOREA. I guess you and Ed just assumed I did. I have said that the USA used chem weapons... napalm. But Ed doesn't agree that napalm is a chemical because the UN tells him it isn't... Ed and I are still working on the details of that debate.
I'm not responsible for your assumptions. This misunderstanding on your part is very similar to the other misunderstanding you had concerning our conversation concerning Israel.
See?
I'm not sure I'm going to be able to help you understand what I'm writing as long as you are only looking to get something from it that isn't there.
I had an entirely different point. My point was so what if NK has nukes? The USA has nukes. Is the USA somehow better and more responsible than North Korea?
I have encountered the type as well. Just somebody that likes to argue solely for the sake of arguing and going out of their way to see what buttons they can push in the process"
This is an interesting comment. As far as I can tell everyone around here likes arguing. I mean you started an argument with me. Right here.
... on this thread about whether or not the USA used Chem/Bio weapons. And that was after you invited me to learn about world history as I recall.
I like to argue. That's why I'm here. I also like to win.
Why on Earth would I read that pile of crap? I intentionally did not read it. I just wanted to find something that said the USA had used Bio weapons... in North Korea.
You can always find what you want to find on the internet.
It's cool that way.
Seemed liked a fun thing to do, given that you and Ed were kinda being snotty to me. The trap was only for Ed... I can't help it if you still had a hard on about unrelated stuff and blundered into a meat grinder.
I can enjoy it though, given your tone with me.
Have a nice day.
Then using your definition and some circular logic thrown in, the same could be said of the tritonol explosive chemical compounds in a Mk 82 500 lb general purpose bomb. But that is not classified as a chemical weapon either.
Even his AK47 is a chemical weapon by his definition.
After all it is a chemical reaction that runs that round down the barrel.
More Palestinian propaganda.
I am just finding stuff from YOUR posts.
Have to ask the question, why did you end that post in question this way?
BTW, you are right, it is not well known, except in the minds of propagandists.
If you actually read it, you will find out.
Now as for this statement:
I caught you in another contradictory lie, to reminiscent of Palestinian Terrorist tactics.
You will get the answer in the next post.
Man ain't that the truth..
Tell me again, how are your own statements about this very topic unrelated?
BTW, what meat grinder are you talking about? I haven't seen one for over 4 decades.
Now to the point of your most recent contradictory lie.
First statement:
Second statement:
So which one is it? Is it this little know secret known only to Palestinian Terrorists that you are blessing onto the world at large? Or, Or is it a pile of crap that you did not read?
Third and Final time I will make it a warning.
STOP, STOP, STOP, POSING QUOTES OF YOUR OWN WORDS OR ANYONE ELSE'S WORDS AS WORDS THAT CAME FROM ME.
STOP
My intention was never to be seen as being "snotty" to you. If it came out that way, please accept my apologies
"I like to argue. That's why I'm here. I also like to win."
Sorry, did not happen this time around.
Are you really that stupid-- or is this just one of your delusional,dishonest, and misleading games?
Actually, yes he is! And for someone who says he likes to win, looks like he lost big time...
Dear Friend TiG: You raise a good question.
The point encompasses more than just North Korea.
Any rogue state, or terrorist group can pose such a threat.
Increasingly our greatest vulnerability may be the fact that we have become way to dependent on digital technology.
We rely so much on the zeros and ones that North Korea, and others who are not that plugged in can shut up down while they don't share our weak spot.
It goes with the territory.
On this as on other legitimate concerns, I am afraid I have more questions than answers.
We cannot put the genie back into the digital stream bottle.
As with climate change, its technology that got us into this.
Hopefully, it can take us out before any serious damage is done with successor technologies.
We do need to address conventional warfare issues.
To ignore them would be irresponsible.
I am more worried about technological infrastructure, climate change and pollution.
One advantage I have, being older than dirt is that I will be under it before any of this takes final choke hold.
My concern isn't for me.
Its for the children and grandchildren.
Whatever we do, we should and must do for them.
Please keep these fascinating seeds going TiG.
They make us pause and think.
There are few better things to do than that.
P&AB Always.
Enoch.
Ultimately we are slaves to human nature and I am not confident that human nature (at our current stage of evolution) is sufficiently 'wise' to avoid destroying ourselves.
That's my biggest fear. One massive EMP and POOF! and it's all over. No more cell phones, computers, TVs, refrigerators, water, cars....Done.
I look at how much stuff I do on the computer every day and one good power outage will keep me from being productive.
Well, the effect would most likely be temporary. Most think that even a massive EMP burst would only affect a "local" area, (a few miles at best). That was what I read a few years ago, things may have changed since then though.
I hate to disagree with you because you're so agreeable, but almost everything we use today has electronic circuits which are extremely vulnerable to EMP bursts.
Even a few miles in radius could be devastating.
But let's hope we never find out.
It's a good thing we're such pals with them thanks solely to the negotiating skills of our exalted leader. Too bad for those commie EU countries though. /s.
Yup, very fortunate that Trump has Kim Jong Un under his thumb.
Perhaps LOVE IS THE ANSWER!
Perhaps if we shower Kim (and Putin as well for that matter) with love, he will mend his evil ways and we will have nothing to fear!
Trump’s comments on falling in love with Kim Jong Un ‘shocking and appalling,’ says conservative writer
So?
North Korea has every right to have nukes and test them and missiles and submarines.
Why do you think anyone else has a say?
So you are for open nuclear weapon proliferation regardless of country?
North Korea and Iran gaining nuclear weapons will spark a nuclear arms race with their neighbors. Or do you want several India/Pakistan level problems to deal with on a continuous basis?
How do I have a say in what North Korea or Iran are doing?
I think nukes and weapons are dumber than cash and leaders. So no I'm not for nuke proliferation. But like I've said several times. I don't see how it's my call or yours.
Besides I figure that every US president is approx as trustworthy as Kim in North Korea in regards to nukes.
Except Truman.
You do not have a say. Now that we agree, do you recognize that you still can offer your opinion on this matter? (And everyone else can too.)
I don't see much point in offering an opinion in stuff I have no say in. I do it sometimes. Like in this case I've already told you I think weapons are dumb.
"I think nukes and weapons are dumber than cash and leaders. So no I'm not for nuke proliferation."
Then why are you on a news forum? None of us have any real say in any current event.
Ummm... this is where you have your say... This place is specifically set up to have a say in the stuff I have a say in. I have a say in current events.
I'm having it now.
I do not have any say in the politics of North Korea... I don't live there.
My point is that we can all opine on anything in the universe we inhabit. It does not matter if we opine on events in the USA or North Korea or about exolife potential in Alpha Centauri because none of our opinions effect direct change anyway. We are simply sharing information and opinions.
So we all have a say in anything we wish to have a say in and our say on USA events is as potent as our say in NK events. The only effect is to influence others.
I guess we can disagree on that.
Thanks for the chat. Have a good one.
Likewise.
And yet you continue to make comments here.
Strange behaviour, IMO.....
People are strange.
You use google translate or babbel?
Neither, I speak every human and animal language in existence...
See that blank space. I was speaking to you in bat.
Am hardly telling is of Russian.
Why not?
North Korea has every right to have nukes and test them and missiles and submarines.
Why do you think anyone else has a say?
Exactly!
And, in fact, they have every right to use them on any other countries...as they see fit! After all, they're a free country!
(There's a lot of unnecessary prejudice on this site against Kim-- he's actually a wonderful person. Nice to see that at least there's someone here like you here-- glad to see someone here who has the cojones to defend N Korea's loving dictator!
How many millions has North Korea killed Krishna?
How many millions has the USA killed Krishna?
I mean we can pretend North Korea is some heinous country. But what exactly has it done to the USA or the world?
And what did the USA do to North Korea?
These are actually sensible questions. I'm sort of wondering if you know the answers?
Please tell us, how many millions has the USA killed?
Which time?
That number is going to be a lot bigger than you think Ed.
Maybe Trump will have his BFF use them to eradicate hurricanes.
Is North Korea building new subs, because the ones they have now ….. suck !
If not, who is giving them subs that can carry "Ballistic Missiles" ?
IIRC, Pakistan gave N Korea what it needed to develop its first nukes.
(I don't know if they gave them any submarine-related technology though).
"A North Korean submarine capable of launching nuclear missiles would bolster the threat posed by the regime and make it more difficult for U.S. forces to counter the danger."
"That" .....is the question !
Do they have that capability, or is this just something to give Rise to more un-needed Hysteria because Trump is President !
Assuming the photo I saw on the TV of the alleged N. Korean submarine is accurate----It looked like a piece of junk worthy of being scrapped.