Trump administration files statement supporting a Catholic high school that fired a gay teacher

  
Via:  pat-wilson  •  3 weeks ago  •  55 comments

 Trump administration files statement supporting a Catholic high school that fired a gay teacher
Archbishop Charles Thompson said in a letter sent to parents and students after the firing that "continued employment of a teacher in a public, same-sex marriage would result in our forfeiting our Catholic identity."

S E E D E D   C O N T E N T



The Trump administration filed a “statement of interest” supporting an Indiana Catholic School being sued by a former teacher who was fired for being in a same-sex marriage.



Joshua Payne-Elliot filed a lawsuit against the Archdiocese of Indianapolis in July alleging that it “illegally interfered with his contractual and employment relationship” with Cathedral High School after the school fired him in June. 

The Justice Department announced in a Friday news release that it filed the statement of interest in the case, alleging that “the First Amendment protects the right of the Roman Catholic Archdiocese of Indianapolis to interpret and apply Catholic doctrine.”






“The First Amendment to the United States Constitution protects the right of religious institutions and people to decide what their beliefs are, to teach their faith, and to associate with others who share their faith,” Assistant Attorney General for the Civil Rights Division Eric Dreiband said in the news release. “The First Amendment rightly protects the free exercise of religion.” 

Archbishop Charles Thompson said in a letter sent to parents and students after the firing that "continued employment of a teacher in a public, same-sex marriage would result in our forfeiting our Catholic identity."

It also called the choice to fire Payne-Elliot  “agonizing” for school officials .

In the news release, the Justice Department said that “courts cannot second-guess how religious institutions interpret and apply their own religious laws.”

“The former teacher’s lawsuit attempts to penalize the Archdiocese for determining that schools within its diocese cannot employ teachers in public, same-sex marriages, and simultaneously identify as Catholic. Supreme Court precedent clearly holds that the First Amendment protects the Archdiocese’s right to this form of expressive association, and courts cannot interfere with that right,” the news release said. 

The lawsuit filed by Payne-Elliot stated, "For thirteen years, Mr. Payne-Elliott was a cherished educator of countless students at Cathedral High School. Cathedral renewed his annual teaching contract on May 21, 2019.” 

"But on June 23, 2019, Cathedral’s President told Mr. Payne-Elliott that the Archdiocese had 'directed' Cathedral to terminate him, and that Cathedral was following that directive," the court filing reportedly continued.

Last month, the Trump administration filed a brief  with the Supreme Court arguing that the Civil Rights Act of 1964 does not apply to sexual orientation.

Article is Locked

smarty_function_ntUser_is_admin: user_id parameter required
Find text within the comments Find 
 
pat wilson
1  seeder  pat wilson    3 weeks ago

"continued employment of a teacher in a public, same-sex marriage would result in our forfeiting our Catholic identity."

I think continued employment of pedophiles pretty much results in forfeiting your "Catholic identity". 

Last month, the Trump administration filed a brief  with the Supreme Court arguing that the Civil Rights Act of 1964 does not apply to sexual orientation.

What's the next category of American citizens that the Civil Rights Act does not "apply to"?

 
 
 
Karri
1.1  Karri  replied to  pat wilson @1    3 weeks ago
Civil Rights Act of 1964 does not apply to sexual orientation.

Hmm. I guess we need a new Civil Rights Act that adds sexual orientation and identity.

 
 
 
Paula Bartholomew
1.1.1  Paula Bartholomew  replied to  Karri @1.1    3 weeks ago

While Title VII of the Civil Rights Act of 1964 does not explicitly include sexual orientation or gender identity in its list of protected bases, the Commission, consistent with Supreme Court case law holding that employment actions motivated by gender stereotyping are unlawful sex discrimination and other court decisions, interprets the statute's sex discrimination provision as prohibiting discrimination against employees on the basis of sexual orientation and gender identity.

 
 
 
pat wilson
1.1.2  seeder  pat wilson  replied to  Paula Bartholomew @1.1.1    3 weeks ago

Looks like the DoJ is giving the Constitution the middle finger.

 
 
 
Sean Treacy
1.1.3  Sean Treacy  replied to  pat wilson @1.1.2    3 weeks ago

Read the first amendment.

 
 
 
pat wilson
1.1.4  seeder  pat wilson  replied to  Sean Treacy @1.1.3    3 weeks ago

Read the 14th and 15th.

 
 
 
MrFrost
1.1.5  MrFrost  replied to  Sean Treacy @1.1.3    3 weeks ago

Read the first amendment.

Religious freedom stops when it violates someone else's civil rights. Religious freedom isn't absolute. 

 
 
 
Paula Bartholomew
1.1.6  Paula Bartholomew  replied to  pat wilson @1.1.4    3 weeks ago

15th - Prohibits the denial of the right to vote based on race, color or previous condition of servitude.

How does this relate to the subject?

 
 
 
pat wilson
1.1.7  seeder  pat wilson  replied to  Paula Bartholomew @1.1.6    3 weeks ago

Congress asserted its authority to legislate under several different parts of the United States Constitution , principally its power to regulate interstate commerce under Article One (section 8), its duty to guarantee all citizens equal protection of the laws under the Fourteenth Amendment , and its duty to protect voting rights under the Fifteenth Amendment .

 
 
 
Greg Jones
1.1.8  Greg Jones  replied to  MrFrost @1.1.5    3 weeks ago

Freedom of religion trumps someone's alleged civil rights. If someone chooses to be in a same-sex marriage, they should work for non-denominational schools .

 
 
 
Dulay
1.1.9  Dulay  replied to  Greg Jones @1.1.8    3 weeks ago
Freedom of religion trumps someone's alleged civil rights.

Nope. 

If someone chooses to be in a same-sex marriage, they should work for non-denominational schools . 

Well it looks like the Archdiocese isn't so worried about the same-sex marriage as they are that the marriage is 'public. 

“The former teacher’s lawsuit attempts to penalize the Archdiocese for determining that schools within its diocese cannot employ teachers in public, same-sex marriages, and simultaneously identify as Catholic. Supreme Court precedent clearly holds that the First Amendment protects the Archdiocese’s right to this form of expressive association, and courts cannot interfere with that right,” the news release said. 

It sounds as if being closeted would have kept the wolves at bay. Pretty disgusting on the Archdioceses part. 

 
 
 
MrFrost
1.1.10  MrFrost  replied to  Greg Jones @1.1.8    3 weeks ago
Freedom of religion trumps someone's alleged civil rights.

Wrong. It's a secular society. Need someone to explain it to you? Ask Kim Davis. 

 
 
 
MrFrost
1.1.11  MrFrost  replied to  Greg Jones @1.1.8    3 weeks ago
If someone chooses to be in a same-sex marriage, they should work for non-denominational schools .

The vast majority of school in the USA are public schools, and guess what? 1st amendment. Sorry! 

 
 
 
Karri
1.1.12  Karri  replied to  Sean Treacy @1.1.3    3 weeks ago
Read the first amendment.

Why should your religious "freedoms" be more important than my religious "freedoms"? 

 
 
 
Karri
1.1.13  Karri  replied to  Greg Jones @1.1.8    3 weeks ago
Freedom of religion trump s someone's alleged civil rights.

Many people believed the Bible banned interracial marriage and many states had laws based on this misinterpretation.  And then there was Loving v Virginia.  Many people believe that same sex marriage is wrong based on their reading of the Bible.  And then there was Obergefell v. Hodges.

Hmm, seems SCOTUS believes in civil rights over religion when it comes to our laws.

 
 
 
Paula Bartholomew
1.1.14  Paula Bartholomew  replied to  pat wilson @1.1.7    3 weeks ago

Has anyone's voting rights been affected by this?

 
 
 
Jack_TX
1.1.15  Jack_TX  replied to  MrFrost @1.1.11    3 weeks ago
The vast majority of school in the USA are public schools, and guess what? 1st amendment. Sorry!

Isn't this about a Catholic school?

 
 
 
Jack_TX
1.1.16  Jack_TX  replied to  Dulay @1.1.9    3 weeks ago
It sounds as if being closeted would have kept the wolves at bay. Pretty disgusting on the Archdioceses part. 

Don't ask, don't tell.  Why is that disgusting, exactly?

 
 
 
Dulay
1.1.17  Dulay  replied to  Jack_TX @1.1.16    3 weeks ago
Don't ask, don't tell.  Why is that disgusting, exactly? 

Discrimination is disgusting. 

I'm no expert in Catholicism, but I'm pretty sure that lying is still on their 10 worst list.

It has been a long time since I was in school but I do remember kids asking teachers about their lives, kids, wives, husbands, pets.

I'm also pretty sure that teachers talk about that stuff too. 

The idea that this man has never be asked about his personal life during the 13 years  he worked as a teacher @ Cathedral is laughable.

So is your posit that he should lie? 

The FACT is, the Archdioceses KNEW about the marriage for almost 2 years before they fired Joshua. Cathedral signed a one year contract with Joshua a month before he was fired.

BOTH of the men in this marriage work for Catholic schools. The Jesuit school chose to give the Archdiocese the figurative finger and refused to fire Joshua's husband. The second school Cathedral, wimped out. 

The argument they are making is that having a gay man teach Catholic Children is one thing, having a gay MARRIED man teaching Catholic Children is another. Somehow, Joshua's marriage threatens their 'Catholic identity'. 

 

 
 
 
Heartland American
1.1.18  Heartland American  replied to  Sean Treacy @1.1.3    3 weeks ago

Exactly.  The law is clear that religious organizations have free reign in requiring their employees to adhere to and follow the teachings and beliefs of said organizations.  The free exercise there of reinforces that.  

 
 
 
Dulay
1.1.19  Dulay  replied to  Heartland American @1.1.18    3 weeks ago
The free exercise there of reinforces that.  

That's hilarious Xx. 

You know that this case is about the FACT that the Archdiocese denied Cathedral school's 'free exercise there of' right? 

 
 
 
Jack_TX
1.1.20  Jack_TX  replied to  Dulay @1.1.17    3 weeks ago
Discrimination is disgusting. 

Behavior standards are not.

I'm no expert in Catholicism, but I'm pretty sure that lying is still on their 10 worst list.

You have not lied to me about your marital status.  I haven't asked and you haven't said.  See how this works?

It has been a long time since I was in school but I do remember kids asking teachers about their lives, kids, wives, husbands, pets.

My daughter is a high school teacher.  The smart ones are guarded about what they disclose.

I'm also pretty sure that teachers talk about that stuff too.  The idea that this man has never be asked about his personal life during the 13 years  he worked as a teacher @ Cathedral is laughable.

The idea that he hasn't answered questions in the same way gay people have for centuries is more laughable.  Or did you think this whole "no gay teachers at Catholic schools" thing just started?  

So is your posit that he should lie? 

I'm quite sure you're smart enough to understand how lies are easily avoided in such circumstances.

The FACT is, the Archdioceses KNEW about the marriage for almost 2 years before they fired Joshua. Cathedral signed a one year contract with Joshua a month before he was fired. BOTH of the men in this marriage work for Catholic schools. The Jesuit school chose to give the Archdiocese the figurative finger and refused to fire Joshua's husband. The second school Cathedral, wimped out. 

Jesuit schools are not controlled by the Archdiocese.  Cathedral is.

The argument they are making is that having a gay man teach Catholic Children is one thing, having a gay MARRIED man teaching Catholic Children is another. Somehow, Joshua's marriage threatens their 'Catholic identity'. 

It's up to them to decide what their "Catholic identity" is.  

 
 
 
Dulay
1.1.21  Dulay  replied to  Jack_TX @1.1.20    3 weeks ago
The idea that he hasn't answered questions in the same way gay people have for centuries is more laughable. 

Why? Don't you think that the world has changed in the last century? Joshua's marriage is perfectly legal. WHY would he hide it or lie about it? 

Or did you think this whole "no gay teachers at Catholic schools" thing just started?  

No, it's ENDING. The FACT is, BOTH schools KNEW they are gay. The Archdiocese insisted that Joshua being gay isn't the issue, his PUBLIC marriage is. 

I'm quite sure you're smart enough to understand how lies are easily avoided in such circumstances.

You know that school age kids are social media savvy right? Go ahead and search Joshua's full name. You'll find the wedding registry where he and his betrothed signed up, just like every other couple. 

I don't think I could avoid a pointed question about my wedding registry. 

Jesuit schools are not controlled by the Archdiocese.  

The Jesuit school in Indianapolis sure as hell WAS Jack. They received the SAME threat for the Archdiocese and they told them that they have always retained the right to hire who they wanted and they had no intention of firing Joshua's husband. 

It's up to them to decide what their "Catholic identity" is.  

It should have been up to Cathedral to do so. 

 
 
 
MrFrost
2  MrFrost    3 weeks ago

And once again we see religion used to support bigotry. Pretty sad. 

 
 
 
charger 383
3  charger 383    3 weeks ago

They should be able to hire who they want and they should also pay taxes 

 
 
 
pat wilson
3.1  seeder  pat wilson  replied to  charger 383 @3    3 weeks ago

He was hired. And then fired when he failed to hide his marriage. Awesome. /s

 
 
 
Tacos!
4  Tacos!    3 weeks ago

Rights to speech and religion are a tough balancing act. The freedom we prioritize in the 1st Amendment, unfortunately opens up the door to hatred and cruelty. But one man's hate is another man's tough love. It's all in your perspective. I don't like the way the Catholic Church treats LGBT, but they have the right to be dicks.

Rather than wish for such churches to fail or be forced to change, I just pray that they see the light, and soon.

 
 
 
Dulay
4.1  Dulay  replied to  Tacos! @4    3 weeks ago
I don't like the way the Catholic Church treats LGBT, but they have the right to be dicks.

This case put the Cathedral Catholic School against the Indy Archdiocese. The school initially refused to terminate the teacher, the Archdiocese threatened to decertify the school if they didn't fire him. 

So it seems that the Cathedral Catholic School was ready for the change you speak of and was shut down by the PTB. 

 
 
 
Tacos!
4.1.1  Tacos!  replied to  Dulay @4.1    3 weeks ago
So it seems that the Cathedral Catholic School was ready for the change you speak of and was shut down by the PTB.

That is happening a lot in a variety of denominations. One church or school or priest after another is daring the parent organization to excommunicate them, and it doesn't happen as much you might expect because, ultimately, it leads to corporate/church suicide.

 
 
 
Karri
4.2  Karri  replied to  Tacos! @4    3 weeks ago

OMG!  We agreed.  Thank you for your wonderful, thoughtful post.

 
 
 
Split Personality
4.3  Split Personality  replied to  Tacos! @4    3 weeks ago

Seems a slippery slope.

How many here would support Sharia law for Muslims by allowing honor killings & genital mutilations of females based on the 1st Amendment ?

( Male genital mutilation is part of the Christian & Jewish cultures so we can ignore those circumcisions )

Just my 2 cents...

 
 
 
Paula Bartholomew
5  Paula Bartholomew    3 weeks ago

I wonder how many of those who fired the teacher abuse their own kids, have affairs, and beat their spouses yet ride their moral high horses in regards to how others lead their own personal relationships.

 
 
 
Greg Jones
5.1  Greg Jones  replied to  Paula Bartholomew @5    3 weeks ago

They probably don't do those things any more than your average liberal or progressive, a large percentage of whom have no moral values.

 
 
 
pat wilson
5.1.1  seeder  pat wilson  replied to  Greg Jones @5.1    3 weeks ago
They probably don't do those things any more than your average liberal or progressive

But the church/school holds itself up to a higher moral standard.

 
 
 
Sunshine
5.1.2  Sunshine  replied to  pat wilson @5.1.1    3 weeks ago
higher moral standard.

so do liberals and progressives

 
 
 
Jack_TX
5.1.3  Jack_TX  replied to  pat wilson @5.1.1    3 weeks ago
But the church/school holds itself up to a higher moral standard.

Sooo...  Wife beating and child abuse are A-OK in liberal/progressive circles??  

That's news to me.

 
 
 
pat wilson
5.1.4  seeder  pat wilson  replied to  Jack_TX @5.1.3    3 weeks ago

where'd you pull that out of ?

 
 
 
Jack_TX
5.1.5  Jack_TX  replied to  pat wilson @5.1.4    3 weeks ago
where'd you pull that out of ?

You said the Church is "held to a higher standard" with regard to wife-beating and child abuse.  The clear implication being there is some alternative standard other than "wife beating and child abuse are unacceptable", to which other people are held.

 
 
 
pat wilson
5.1.6  seeder  pat wilson  replied to  Jack_TX @5.1.5    3 weeks ago

My point was the hypocrisy of the church/school casting out a gay teacher while their priests molest the congregants children. I said nothing in any of my comments about "wife-beating and child abuse". That was other posters above. Don't put words in my mouth.

 
 
 
Paula Bartholomew
6  Paula Bartholomew    3 weeks ago

Trump is once again playing his homophobic card.  He has done it before and most likely will do it again.

 
 
 
Greg Jones
6.1  Greg Jones  replied to  Paula Bartholomew @6    3 weeks ago

Trump is not a homophobe and never has been. He is not a bit religious either.

 
 
 
sandy-2021492
6.1.1  sandy-2021492  replied to  Greg Jones @6.1    3 weeks ago
He is not a bit religious either.

Some people would be unhappy to know that.  They bought into his "Merry Christmas and the Two Corinthians" bullshit.

 
 
 
Dulay
6.1.2  Dulay  replied to  Greg Jones @6.1    3 weeks ago
Trump is not a homophobe and never has been.

jrSmiley_10_smiley_image.gif

 
 
 
MrFrost
6.1.3  MrFrost  replied to  sandy-2021492 @6.1.1    3 weeks ago
Two Corinthians" bullshit.

I swear, that was one of the funniest things I ever heard. I mean...

512

 
 
 
Paula Bartholomew
6.1.4  Paula Bartholomew  replied to  Greg Jones @6.1    3 weeks ago

No shit about the religious thing as he has pretty much broken every commandment.  The homophobe comment stands though.  He proved that with forcing TS's out of the military.  Before you can counter that with the expense thing, the military spends more than that on Viagra for straight male troops.

 
 
 
Texan1211
6.1.5  Texan1211  replied to  Paula Bartholomew @6.1.4    3 weeks ago
He proved that with forcing TS's out of the military.

So now you think that transgenders are homosexuals?

Weird shit there.

You do know they are not the same, right?

 
 
 
Karri
6.1.6  Karri  replied to  Texan1211 @6.1.5    3 weeks ago
So now you think that transgenders are homosexuals?

No, they are not homosexuals, but they are a part of the LGBTQ community. So, let's just say Trump is anti-LGBTQ.

 
 
 
Texan1211
6.1.7  Texan1211  replied to  Karri @6.1.6    3 weeks ago
No, they are not homosexuals, but they are a part of the LGBTQ community. So, let's just say Trump is anti-LGBTQ.

Well, at least that makes more sense than to accuse Trump of being a homophobe based on decisions regarding transgenders, which is the comment I was responding to.

 
 
 
Dulay
6.1.8  Dulay  replied to  Texan1211 @6.1.5    3 weeks ago
You do know they are not the same, right?

You know that some transgendered people are homosexuals/lesbians right? 

Oh and BTFW, since y'all tend to insist that 'gender isn't mutable' MOST transgender people ARE homosexuals/lesbians. Y'all can't have it both ways. 

 
 
 
Texan1211
6.1.9  Texan1211  replied to  Dulay @6.1.8    3 weeks ago
You know that some transgendered people are homosexuals/lesbians right? 

I am sure some are. So what?

Saying Trump is homophobic based on some military policies for transgenders is ludicrous.

Oh and BTFW, since y'all tend to insist that 'gender isn't mutable' MOST transgender people ARE homosexuals/lesbians. Y'all can't have it both ways. 

Who the fuck is this "y'all" you attempt to lump me in with?

Why do you assume so much about someone you don't even fucking know?

Does it make you feel superior or something?

Buzz off.

 
 
 
Dulay
6.1.10  Dulay  replied to  Texan1211 @6.1.9    3 weeks ago
Saying Trump is homophobic based on some military policies for transgenders is ludicrous.

Nope. 

Who the fuck is this "y'all" you attempt to lump me in with?

Is gender mutable? 


Why do you assume so much about someone you don't even fucking know?

The same reason you do Tex.

 Does it make you feel superior or something?

Not at all. Do you feel inferior? 


Buzz off.

I'm merely replying to your comments Tex, that's how this shit works. 

 
 
 
Texan1211
6.1.11  Texan1211  replied to  Dulay @6.1.10    3 weeks ago
I'm merely replying to your comments Tex, that's how this shit works. 

Why do you post facts which aren't in any type of dispute like you are making an argument?

 
 
 
Dulay
6.1.12  Dulay  replied to  Texan1211 @6.1.11    3 weeks ago
Why do you post facts which aren't in any type of dispute like you are making an argument?

Did you just admit that I post facts Tex? Someone might take away your decoder ring. 

Answer my questions. 

 
 
 
Texan1211
6.1.13  Texan1211  replied to  Dulay @6.1.12    3 weeks ago

[removed]

 
 
 
pat wilson
7  seeder  pat wilson    3 weeks ago

I'm going to be gone for a while. Locking article.

 

 
 
Loading...
Loading...

Who is online



loki12
Krishna


35 visitors