9 tips for talking to people you disagree with

  
Via:  perrie-halpern  •  3 weeks ago  •  189 comments

9 tips for talking to people you disagree with
Whether it's about who does the dishes or takes out the trash, impeachment or gun control, the same rules apply.

S E E D E D   C O N T E N T


By   Sarah DiGiulio


There’s value in having conversations with   people with whom you don’t necessarily see eye-to-eye with . You might evolve your perspective on a topic. You might bolster your argument for why you disagree. You might learn something new about your conversation partner. And when we’re respecting one another and acting like grown-ups, such conversations can be really interesting.

But perhaps too often, respect falls to the wayside and we channel our inner five-year-old-selves, rather than the cool, calm, rational adults we all can be.


We often need to have difficult conversations about things we disagree on to reach solutions, particularly with family, partners, and close friends, says   Holly Weeks , an adjunct lecturer in public policy at Harvard Kennedy School of Government (she teaches about communications issues) and author of " Failure to Communicate: How Conversations Go Wrong and What You Can Do to Right Them ".

Think about discussing things like when   someone’s feelings have been hurt   or different opinions about how two partners are spending their money. “The price tag of not having that conversation is high,” Weeks says.

And even when it’s not a disagreement that requires you solving it, there may still be costs to not having those conversations.

“Information is power,” says   Susan Heitler , a Denver-based clinical psychologist and author of " The Power of Two: Secrets to a Strong & Loving Marriage ".

Talking with a friend with whom you disagree about things like whether religion should be taught in schools or about whether a one-payer health care system is most judicious can lead to better understanding of the issue for both of you, she says. You may even happen upon some common ground on which you agree, she adds.

It strengthens your perspective to know more clearly why your views stand up to contradictory ones, she adds. (And if you’re someone who works in a field like politics, she says: “One of the basic rules is to know your enemy.”)

And it can   deepen your personal relationships   to have those conversations and come to a better understanding of the people you spend your time with.

“Often times topics like politics and religion get to the core of someone’s identity,” adds   Matteo Trevisan , an executive coach and leadership trainer at Fearless Future Coaching. “One could argue that if we don’t talk about these things, then we don’t really know each other.”

Here's how to disagree with grace


Whether you’re disagreeing with your partner about when you want to have your first child or disagreeing with a friend of a friend you’ve just met at a dinner party about   income tax , the skills required to make both of those conversations worthwhile ones are pretty much the same, Weeks says.

“It’s not that the skills are different,” she says. “But the emotional load that the conversations carry is different, and is what makes them feel so different.” (And therefore the costs of those conversations going poorly feels very different, too, she says.)

Here’s how she and others suggest doing it better.

1. Decide if you want to go there


Step one is deciding whether that conversation is even worth having, Weeks says. If it’s an   argument with your spouse   over whether one of you is going to   accept a job offer   that will require the family to move, you will need to have that talk. But if it’s a matter of asking a friend why she believes abortion should be banned (and you very much disagree), it’s worth asking yourself first why you want to have that conversation. Do you want to learn why your friend feels the way she does? Do you want to change her mind?

“I don’t have to have a conversation with someone I disagree with to know something about their perspective,” Weeks says. You can read about it or find out about it from someone else. If you’re trying to change that person’s mind, however, the goal of that conversation is not then learning and understanding, Weeks says. “That’s not really a conversation; that’s a lecture.”

Think, too, about how the conversation will be received. Some people love getting into complex discussions, Weeks says. But for some people, some topics just feel like you’re pushing their buttons — which doesn’t necessarily make for pleasant dinner party conversation or coffee klatch. It’s okay to not go there, or when someone else brings up the topic to tell them you don’t want to go there.

2. Ask if you can ask about it


Still not sure if a topic you want to broach is too sensitive of one? “Just ask,” says   Georgie Nightingall , a conversation coach and founder of   Trigger Conversations , a London-based organization dedicated to teaching people how to have better and more meaningful conversations. “You and your conversation partner can make that decision together.” Simply stating that you know a topic is a challenging one and asking if they prefer avoiding it shows up front that you’re making potentially volatile territory safe and that you care about their perspective.

Note if the other person hesitates or answers in a guarded way, Nightingall says. That may be a reason to move on.

And perk up your ears to emotional intensity, Heitler adds. The tone of someone’s voice and absolutes like “absolutely hate” or “idiot” or “moronic” can usually tip one off that the person you are talking with doesn’t likely want to hear an alternative perspective.

3. Keep it neutral


Keeping the conversation neutral starts from the beginning. If you’re asking questions about the other person’s perspective, ask in a way that shows you know the context of a situation, but that doesn’t come off as boastful, Weeks says. And don’t ask so tentatively, either, that you invite condescension, she adds. You want to start from neutral territory where no one’s poking a stick in the other person’s emotions (or inviting the other person to do so).

Try “I know conservatives have strong opinions about X issue, but I’m not as familiar with why they feel this way about Y issue” rather than “I feel silly that I don’t know why conservatives feel this way about Y issue.” (Hint: Your question shouldn’t include an apology, Weeks says.)

4. Start off the conversation with understanding


According to Weeks, the approach is: “Grant your counterpart her premise, and then argue from there.” Instead of telling your counterpart their way of thinking is wrong, you legitimately acknowledge their point of view (yes, I understand that you want to spend more money now and invest in a higher-quality couch we’ll have for a while) and then explain why you disagree (but if we do that, we’ll have to use some of the money we’ve set aside for travel this year).

It helps put edges around the problem — and focus on which problem you need to solve, Weeks says. “We’re not arguing before we start to argue,” she adds — and it can help keep things like “you just always want to spend more than what we can afford” and “we shouldn’t have moved into such an expensive apartment to begin with” out of the conversation.

5. Look for where you agree


The goal of productive conversations is to build understanding and learning (for all parties), not tear one another apart, Trevisan says. That means no winners and no losers. “The constructive approach is to be curious and seek to understand,” he says. You do this by finding areas of agreement rather than disagreement.

“Winning a conversation is like winning a foxtrot against your dance partner,” Weeks adds. “It’s not the point.”

Heitler calls it “listening with the good ear.” Listen for what makes sense about what the person just said rather than listening for how you can show what’s wrong with it, she explains.

6. Talk less. Give the other person space to respond


Remember that it’s dialogue. Dialogue means you are both responding to one another, point after point — which is different from diatribe (where one side of the conversation drones out all others) and from debate (an attempt to prove one side right and one side wrong).

Follow this basic formula, Heitler explains: Agree (with some part of what the other person said, which acknowledges their point of views) and then add something in response.

And take a breath after you say something rather than ploughing through point after point, Trevisan adds. You want to give your conversation partner space to respond and let emotions settle, he says. “It helps the other person feel like they are being heard.”

7. Avoid using the word ‘but’


The word “but” is a subtraction sign in conversation, Heitler says. It erases what was just said. Instead of using it, respond with “and at the same time” or ask a question starting with “how” or “what,” she says.

“If you hear yourself saying ‘yes, but’ — it’s a pretty good indication you are trying to score a point,” Trevisan says — rather than keep the dialogue constructive.

8. Tell stories


Specifics, rather than generalities, keep the conversation about different perspectives, not broader opposing opinions, Weeks says.

You’re having a conversation with a coworker about why you think a new employee should be freed up to help your team instead of theirs. Rather than saying things like “we never get the resources we need” and “your team has way fewer responsibilities to begin with,” give an example. “When we had to put together that presentation last month on a tight timeline, we could have used an extra person to do a certain portion of the research, which would have saved us a day” — for instance. You’re making the argument about the project, your team’s productivity, and the office’s overall goals, rather than the argument about you specifically or your colleague.

It’s not difficult to do, Weeks says. But it does require you to think about what you say and how you phrase it before letting the words tumble out of your mouth, she says.

9. Resist the current vogue to be provocative


The best argument isn’t necessarily the one you can hashtag and will go viral on the internet. Those are punches. And communicating that way is very expensive in terms of the emotional toll they take on us, Weeks says. (Do a few choice moments from the 2016 U.S. Presidential campaign come to mind?)

“Resist the vogue for being provocative,” Weeks says. And take the opportunity when you can to neutralize the emotional load of the conversation and disarm the moment, she adds. It often comes down to word choice and the tone of your voice.

Tags

jrDiscussion - desc
smarty_function_ntUser_is_admin: user_id parameter required
Find text within the comments Find 
 
Perrie Halpern R.A.
1  seeder  Perrie Halpern R.A.    3 weeks ago

I thought this was a good read for a site like this. Do any of you see merit in this?

 
 
 
igknorantzrulz
1.1  igknorantzrulz  replied to  Perrie Halpern R.A. @1    3 weeks ago

...huh...

Whatever could have inspired this seed...

i've never 'talked' to any on this site unseen are words N E might mis perceive as not mean, on average seems we are all  B low   in a dusty dirty discarded discourse of chlorophyll gathering apparatus    gathering   n 2 a pyle   driven by wind unwound 

in this  torrid autumn

It's almost like ,   hold on,          i'll now reed sead n C what it say,     n ccc's f i disagreeze

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
1.2  Vic Eldred  replied to  Perrie Halpern R.A. @1    3 weeks ago

It has great merit. It it the way we used to be. The fact that somebody found the need to write it tells you far our civilization has declined. That being said, my interest in NT is more about those who may be reading the discussions than those who participate.

 
 
 
Perrie Halpern R.A.
1.2.1  seeder  Perrie Halpern R.A.  replied to  Vic Eldred @1.2    3 weeks ago

I agree with your assessment Vic. Apparently, it is a universal problem. 

That being said, my interest in NT is more about those who may be reading the discussions than those who participate.

That is very true. Every day we get over 1,500 non-members who read our discussions, so making a good argument is very important. Those are our undecided, trying to decide. 

 
 
 
igknorantzrulz
1.2.2  igknorantzrulz  replied to  Perrie Halpern R.A. @1.2.1    3 weeks ago

Who are these 1500 eavesdropping and reading my incoherent babble ?

i wish to meet these anonymous voyeur perverts that have been, unbeknownst to moi', secretly hating on me, as my ESP n felt like ESPN2, as my spidey sense tingled due to anachrophobia that i have a knack at phobiaing while stalking talking spiders on the web that get tangled in non conditioned pears of skinless hairy legs that for over a Brazilian auto wax applications, still wind up tangled in their webs of deceipt, without a receipt, 

so as they could return to sender, till they blow the whistle blower

over and right off the site unseen due to anonymity obscene buy those not buying , what i'm not trying, to single cell via double speak from two sided arguments talking out both sides of their full mouths throwing up

hands

tied to one leg upping the other six pairs untied to shooing a weigh conversations that become poisoned whence laced with velcro that sticks to those roofied by peanut butter stuck to the based and meant  to indenture, to be allergic, to nuts that make more sense than nonsense  , and believed not deserved of censure , as that ship won't float, ore  row a boat of non ferrous irony as it sinks into dark depths of befuddling puddles muddled by numerous cumulus clouds accumulating to amounts sum block by eclipsing suns shoan

how dark enlightenment can be

brighter than the clouded depths of those that view coarse grainy views of sand obstructing muddy waters floating to the top of

De Nile 

like a scoop of Vanilla, rooted in a cold beer battered baking soda box car vessel that sinks and submarines 

arguments that agree that torpedos are underwater missiles ,

yet,    quite quieter .....     can you hear what i say here anonymously

and think i don't know...       me neither

 
 
 
sandy-2021492
1.2.3  sandy-2021492  replied to  igknorantzrulz @1.2.2    3 weeks ago
i wish to meet these anonymous voyeur perverts that have been, unbeknownst to moi', secretly hating on me,

You don't know they were all hating on you.  They could be reading with rapt admiration, but unable to give you an up vote, because they don't have accounts.  You might even tempt them to form accounts, just so they can express their admiration for your way with words.

 
 
 
igknorantzrulz
1.2.4  igknorantzrulz  replied to  sandy-2021492 @1.2.3    3 weeks ago

"You don't know they were all hating on you."

Are you attempting to dash all my hopes and dreams, cause that's just, like me, not right.

 
 
 
sandy-2021492
1.2.5  sandy-2021492  replied to  igknorantzrulz @1.2.4    3 weeks ago

Sorry, iggy, didn't mean to offend ;)

 
 
 
Krishna
1.2.6  Krishna  replied to  sandy-2021492 @1.2.3    3 weeks ago
You don't know they were all hating on you.  They could be reading with rapt admiration, but unable to give you an up vote, because they don't have accounts.

Good point!

Another possibility: perhaps most people can't understand what he is trying to communicate, due to his communication style.

Not that there's anything wrong with that-- but my guess is a lot more readers would understand what he is trying to say if he tried to communicate in a way that more conducive to communicating effectively in this particular media? (i.e. The Internet).

A style of communication that works effectively offline is often is ineffective online. 

(P.S: I'm not saying he should try to communicate effectively-- perhaps he doesn't want to. I'm just presenting another possibility, Because that is a decision for him and him alone to make....)

 
 
 
sandy-2021492
1.2.7  sandy-2021492  replied to  Krishna @1.2.6    3 weeks ago

I see iggy as Newstalker's very own e e cummings.  One might have to work to decipher his meaning, but the work is its own reward.

 
 
 
Raven Wing
1.2.8  Raven Wing  replied to  sandy-2021492 @1.2.7    3 weeks ago
One might have to work to decipher his meaning, but the work is its own reward.

I don't have as much trouble deciphering Iggy's comments as I do some other's double speak. His comments are pretty well easy to read.

 
 
 
igknorantzrulz
1.2.9  igknorantzrulz  replied to  Krishna @1.2.6    3 weeks ago
Another possibility: perhaps most people can't understand what he is trying to communicate, due to his communication style.

perhaps i'll have my communication style trimmed to my thought stylists' interpretation  of what reflects that which i'm obviously not conveying , but (note that word) i do recognize constructive criticism and appreciate well intensioned advise, but i've not really ever thought my misinterpretation of word configuration, was for all to consume or appreciate, but i'm not knocking your apparent well intentioned suggestion, i'm only hear to exercise thought

 
 
 
Krishna
1.2.10  Krishna  replied to  Raven Wing @1.2.8    3 weeks ago
I don't have as much trouble deciphering Iggy's comments as I do some other's double speak. His comments are pretty well easy to read.

I agree re: some of the other doublespeak here. 

However sometimes I find his comments easy to understand, but some times they are uncklear...to me.

(But that's just my experience..sometimes I am a bit slow on the uptake :-).

 
 
 
Krishna
1.2.11  Krishna  replied to  igknorantzrulz @1.2.9    3 weeks ago
but (note that word)

Most people probably wouldn't-- but I would. The use of langauge (styles of communication) have always fascinated me, And-- I could say a lot about the ways of using (and misusing) "but"). But that's getting a bit off topic :-)

BTW, just curious-- are you by any chance an ENTP?

That's from a system of personality typologies-- if you're interested in pop psych there's an excellent series of the subject posted here on NT. Here's the first in the series:

What Personality Type Are You? The MBTI ("Myers Briggs Type Indicator")

There are various differing theories of personality-- and personality types. One that I find both interesting and useful is The Myers Briggs Type Indicator. A short answer test is used to determine which of 16 types a person is. I was skeptical at first but after I learned more about it I was surprised to find that I did get some very useful insights into my personality.

There are several good sites on the subject, where you can take the test and then read the description of your type. (Read it All)

You are obviously an  _ _T_ type (as am I).

 
 
 
Sister Mary Agnes Ample Bottom
1.3  Sister Mary Agnes Ample Bottom  replied to  Perrie Halpern R.A. @1    3 weeks ago
Do any of you see merit in this?

Perrie, of course there is merit in this.  Most of us know how to share civil dialogue.  What I find most troublesome are the straight out of the gate attacks.  You know...'Yawn', or 'Stupid topic', or 'Still beating this dead horse?'  Guilty parties do it with unending gusto.  My guilt comes from my inability to avoid jumping in the middle of a gang-troll.  'Please stop' usually earns a double-down, so I've been skipping the middle part and diving straight into my own double-down abyss.  That hasn't worked, either.  However, I made you a promise this morning, and I plan on sticking to it.

 
 
 
MUVA
1.3.1  MUVA  replied to  Sister Mary Agnes Ample Bottom @1.3    3 weeks ago

I agree most times when I give a opinion addressing  a topic  I will be attacked one time someone even called me a dick I can't remember who that was.

 
 
 
igknorantzrulz
1.3.2  igknorantzrulz  replied to  MUVA @1.3.1    3 weeks ago

i'd wear that with a badge of honor, but i'm a dick that way, and a thousand other ways

 
 
 
Perrie Halpern R.A.
1.3.3  seeder  Perrie Halpern R.A.  replied to  Sister Mary Agnes Ample Bottom @1.3    3 weeks ago

Personally, the comments that are of "no value" are just meant to trigger people. Sometimes I think that discussions become way to personal and that is why that happens. I wish people would put that aside and get to the meat and potatoes of the issue. It would be better for all of us and the site. 

 
 
 
Perrie Halpern R.A.
1.3.4  seeder  Perrie Halpern R.A.  replied to  MUVA @1.3.1    3 weeks ago

No one should ever be called a Dick. Flag it. 

 
 
 
Perrie Halpern R.A.
1.3.5  seeder  Perrie Halpern R.A.  replied to  igknorantzrulz @1.3.2    3 weeks ago

Play nice, Iggy.

 
 
 
MUVA
1.3.6  MUVA  replied to  Perrie Halpern R.A. @1.3.3    3 weeks ago

I agree I had one poster talk about my wife my business just because I disagreed with them on tax policy . I commented that my brother worked for the FBI and one posted called it the federal bureau of Idiots at the time I couldn't flag it because my privilege had been taken away.  

 
 
 
MUVA
1.3.7  MUVA  replied to  Perrie Halpern R.A. @1.3.4    3 weeks ago

It was finally removed after about 2 weeks.

 
 
 
Suz
1.3.8  Suz  replied to  Perrie Halpern R.A. @1.3.4    3 weeks ago

What about telling someone they're acting like a dick.  lol 

Hello gorgeous.

 
 
 
Krishna
1.3.9  Krishna  replied to  Perrie Halpern R.A. @1.3.3    3 weeks ago
. I wish people would put that aside and get to the meat and potatoes of the issue.

Maybe the reason many of them make those no value comments is that they have nothing else to say on the topic-- because they are poorly uninformed-- don't really know anything about it. So they just type a covertly hostileremark such as "Yawn"...

 
 
 
Ender
1.3.10  Ender  replied to  Suz @1.3.8    3 weeks ago

Suz ! I memba you.

 
 
 
Perrie Halpern R.A.
1.3.11  seeder  Perrie Halpern R.A.  replied to  Suz @1.3.8    3 weeks ago

Hey Suz,

I've never said those words, although I must admit, I have thought them on more than a few occasions. 

 
 
 
Jack_TX
1.3.12  Jack_TX  replied to  MUVA @1.3.1    3 weeks ago
someone even called me a dick I can't remember who that was.

There is one particular person who does that a lot.  

 
 
 
igknorantzrulz
1.3.13  igknorantzrulz  replied to  Jack_TX @1.3.12    3 weeks ago

sounds like a real male reproductive organ

 
 
 
Krishna
1.3.14  Krishna  replied to  igknorantzrulz @1.3.13    3 weeks ago
sounds like a real male reproductive organ

What is a male reproductive organ?

 
 
 
igknorantzrulz
1.3.15  igknorantzrulz  replied to  Krishna @1.3.14    3 weeks ago

something Trumps Monkey would grind , on grounds of coffee bean the least important reason  to keep him up at night

 
 
 
Krishna
1.3.16  Krishna  replied to  Suz @1.3.8    3 weeks ago

Hi Suz. 

Did you just log on?

 
 
 
Greg Jones
1.4  Greg Jones  replied to  Perrie Halpern R.A. @1    3 weeks ago

Not in political life as exemplified by this forum. I don't come here to be agreeable to debate and discuss with people whose views I disagree with.

In real and personal life they all have merit.

 
 
 
Krishna
1.4.1  Krishna  replied to  Greg Jones @1.4    3 weeks ago
I don't come here to be agreeable to debate and discuss with people whose views I disagree with.

So what do you come here for?

 
 
 
Perrie Halpern R.A.
1.4.2  seeder  Perrie Halpern R.A.  replied to  Greg Jones @1.4    3 weeks ago
I don't come here to be agreeable to debate and discuss with people whose views I disagree with.

So you think that being nasty is the way to have a discussion? What merit does that have?

 
 
 
Krishna
1.4.3  Krishna  replied to  Greg Jones @1.4    3 weeks ago
I don't come here to be agreeable to debate and discuss with people whose views I disagree with.

So where do you go to be agreeable to debate with people whose views you disagree with?

 
 
 
Karri
1.5  Karri  replied to  Perrie Halpern R.A. @1    3 weeks ago
Do any of you see merit in this?

ABSOLUTELY!  We need to remember that we can disagree without being disagreeable.  Some of my best conversations have been in-depth discussions with people of differing opinions.  I remember a particular conversation about a referendum.  I pointed out to my friend that we both had different viewpoints and, because of our different backgrounds, our viewpoints were understandable.  And, therefore, our different ways of seeing the same issue resulted in different opinions.  Both opinions were appropriate based on our backgrounds. 

I think we should all remember this and work towards understanding rather than winning.  (How I wish I was perfect in that regard.)

Although, I would like to add one caveat to that position.  We all may have different opinions, but we should not have different facts.  All to often, each camp has different facts and we will never come to an understanding if we do not all come from a factual basis.

 
 
 
Perrie Halpern R.A.
1.5.1  seeder  Perrie Halpern R.A.  replied to  Karri @1.5    3 weeks ago
I think we should all remember this and work towards understanding rather than winning.  (How I wish I was perfect in that regard.)

Hear! Hear!

Although, I would like to add one caveat to that position.  We all may have different opinions, but we should not have differentfacts.  All to often, each camp has different facts and we will never come to an understanding if we do not all come from a factual basis.

Also very true!

 
 
 
Krishna
1.6  Krishna  replied to  Perrie Halpern R.A. @1    3 weeks ago
thought this was a good read for a site like this. Do any of you see merit in this?

Lots of merit.

But how long has NT been around-- I'm surprised you never tried posting something like this before :-)

 
 
 
Perrie Halpern R.A.
1.6.1  seeder  Perrie Halpern R.A.  replied to  Krishna @1.6    3 weeks ago

Well, this is the first time I have seen it for the internet. But you're right I should have found something sooner. 

 
 
 
Krishna
1.6.2  Krishna  replied to  Perrie Halpern R.A. @1.6.1    3 weeks ago

Actually, its possible you did, but it was a while back so we've forgotten about it (?)

 
 
 
pat wilson
2  pat wilson    3 weeks ago

I'll read it and see if I agree. smile

 
 
 
Perrie Halpern R.A.
2.1  seeder  Perrie Halpern R.A.  replied to  pat wilson @2    3 weeks ago

You're a good egg! 

 
 
 
Krishna
2.2  Krishna  replied to  pat wilson @2    3 weeks ago
I'll read it and see if I agree. smile

Well, that's a lot more sensible approach than many people here have!

Many people decide whether they agree about something posted before they actually read it. 

(And then there are those who decide to disagree without ever having read it at all).

 
 
 
Krishna
2.2.1  Krishna  replied to  Krishna @2.2    3 weeks ago

I'll read it and see if I agree. smile

Well, that's a lot more sensible approach than many people here have!

Many people decide whether they agree about something posted before they actually read it. 

(And then there are those who decide to disagree without ever having read it at all).

Well, that's the Internet for you-- more fun than a barrel of Monkees!

 
 
 
Buzz of the Orient
3  Buzz of the Orient    3 weeks ago

I rarely have conversations here because either nobody understands me or I don't understand them.  It does save me from experiencing a lot of disagreements.  Of course when it comes to NT, it could be a different story.

 
 
 
igknorantzrulz
3.1  igknorantzrulz  replied to  Buzz of the Orient @3    3 weeks ago

i never have a misunderstanding, that i don't not misunderstand, and i'll not stand by it,

as how could i, if i'm already               stood

                                                            under           ?

 
 
 
Perrie Halpern R.A.
3.2  seeder  Perrie Halpern R.A.  replied to  Buzz of the Orient @3    3 weeks ago

What about the merits of this article?

 
 
 
Buzz of the Orient
3.2.1  Buzz of the Orient  replied to  Perrie Halpern R.A. @3.2    3 weeks ago

Well, I try NOT to get into arguments with others and the author does provide lots of ways to avoid them, BUT (oh oh, there I go) I can't imagine anyone being so perfect.  However, I do tell stories.

 
 
 
Krishna
3.2.2  Krishna  replied to  Buzz of the Orient @3.2.1    3 weeks ago
to get into arguments with others and the author does provide lots of ways to avoid them, BUT (oh oh, there I go) I can't imagine anyone being so perfect.  However, I do tell stories.

Buzz-- just came acros s this , its a little off topic, but I'm posting it here as it brings back memories:

Buzz of the Orient   says:

For many years I was a member and contributor to Newsvine, enjoyed posting photos, and opened and administered a group (this was pre-nation) called Classic Cinema. Made many internet friends on Newsvine, and because as an expat I live on the other side of the world from most users, it became for me a window to the rest of the world. Freewill has asked a question: “Any suggestions that might rival what we had on NV?” Sure. Just do what I did years ago and many are doing now, join Newstalkers.

 
 
 
Buzz of the Orient
3.2.3  Buzz of the Orient  replied to  Krishna @3.2.2    3 weeks ago

Going through the comments on that memorial of NV did bring back memories for me too.  It reminded me that when I first joined NV (must have been at least 10 years ago if not longer), you were my first friend, and you were my mentor on the site.  I admit that when I wandered away from your advice I paid the price for it.

When I got to Dowser's comment there, thanking the site for all the friends she made there, it saddened me because I knew she made a lot of friends here who miss her.

 
 
 
Buzz of the Orient
3.3  Buzz of the Orient  replied to  Buzz of the Orient @3    3 weeks ago

Oh, I hope I haven't misled people. When I said I rarely have conversations here, I meant in China - I didn't mean on NT.

 
 
 
Perrie Halpern R.A.
3.4  seeder  Perrie Halpern R.A.  replied to  Buzz of the Orient @3    3 weeks ago

That actually makes me feel badly Buzz. I would like to know why you think that is (without specifics 

 
 
 
Buzz of the Orient
3.4.1  Buzz of the Orient  replied to  Perrie Halpern R.A. @3.4    3 weeks ago

It's because I rarely get together with people here in China with whom I can carry on a conversation. When I was teaching in a school, there were other foreigners who were English speakers, but I have not taught in a school now for some years.  My wife is extremely limited in her use of the language, so if there is anything important to communicate about, we use the computer translation. 

I look forward to my wife's daughter graduating with her Bachelor of Science next Spring so she can return home from Germany, because she is tri-lingual.

 
 
 
Krishna
3.5  Krishna  replied to  Buzz of the Orient @3    3 weeks ago
Of course when it comes to NT, it could be a different story.

A horse of another colour, as it were?

320

 
 
 
igknorantzrulz
4  igknorantzrulz    3 weeks ago

"It often comes down to word choice and the tone of your voice."

I never choose my own words, they are just transcribed into text displayed on screens, after my feeble mind blurts out perceived interpretational  reactionary thoughts, i think ?

besides,

no one has ever heard the tone of my own voice, but, i think it's like a broad spectrum defense of orange,

a copper, tone          either Albino White, Tan, Red, or Flakey off White while Right Black at you too

enlighten a load of heavy burdensome, while, some not.

 
 
 
Perrie Halpern R.A.
4.1  seeder  Perrie Halpern R.A.  replied to  igknorantzrulz @4    3 weeks ago

LOL!

Iggy, you speak a language all of your own.

 
 
 
igknorantzrulz
4.1.1  igknorantzrulz  replied to  Perrie Halpern R.A. @4.1    3 weeks ago

Iggy, you speak a language all of your own.

yea but to me

it's Universal

 
 
 
Krishna
4.2  Krishna  replied to  igknorantzrulz @4    3 weeks ago
I never choose my own words,

How's that been working out for you so far?

If you find it works for you...I'm thinking maybe I'll try it! (Like most people on this site, I'm always open to learning new things...)

 
 
 
Krishna
4.3  Krishna  replied to  igknorantzrulz @4    3 weeks ago
I never choose my own words, they are just transcribed into text displayed on screens, after my feeble mind blurts out perceived interpretational  reactionary thoughts, i think ?

Well, FWIW, here's some feedback: my perception of you may be wrong, but I don't think your mind is as feeble as you think!

I don't know how others here see you, butto me you appear to be quite intelligent (and for some reason that I haven't figured out yet you have chosen to speak in a manner that is not easily understoo=d by some folks).

But feeble-minded? Nope!

 
 
 
Krishna
4.4  Krishna  replied to  igknorantzrulz @4    3 weeks ago
no one has ever heard the tone of my own voice, but, i think it's like a broad spectrum defense of orange, a copper, tone          either Albino White, Tan, Red, or Flakey off White while Right Black at you too

Well, whatever your tone of voice is...you certainly do use some colourful language! 

 
 
 
sandy-2021492
5  sandy-2021492    3 weeks ago

It has merit.  But on an internet forum, where there is little emotional price to going personal and where brevity is prized over depth,  I feel many will disregard the advice.

 
 
 
Perrie Halpern R.A.
5.1  seeder  Perrie Halpern R.A.  replied to  sandy-2021492 @5    3 weeks ago
I feel many will disregard the advice.

One can always hope. There is some very good advice in it. 

Kind of the new "How to make friends and influence people".

 
 
 
sandy-2021492
5.1.1  sandy-2021492  replied to  Perrie Halpern R.A. @5.1    3 weeks ago

I guess I'm just a pessimist at heart.

I do take heed of item #1 fairly frequently, although maybe not as frequently as I should.  But I often avoid discussions where it's clear that each side is entrenched, with no intention of listening to the other.  Those discussions are exercises in futility, and on occasion can ruin friendships, family relationships, etc.  There's nothing to be gained, much to be lost, and so they're better left alone.

 
 
 
NV-Robin6
5.1.2  NV-Robin6  replied to  Perrie Halpern R.A. @5.1    3 weeks ago

HI Perrie, IMO, we lost this civil discourse norm when there became no choice but to confront shameless bullies and the bullypulpit mentality across this nation that only really exacerbated with the invent of SM.That's not to say ugly and ignorant haven't always been prevalent.

Only way to take them down is with logic, facts and shame, by boppin' them directly in the nose metaphorically and rhetorically without having to physically-- when necessary. This is an out and out fight for our democracy. Its not funny but all too real. I am mad as hell, aren't you?! This coup of our elections by an insider traitorous theft will not stand, period. 

I think Natalie Main wrote it best.

Forgive, sounds good
Forget, I'm not sure I could
They say time heals everything
But I'm still waiting
I'm through with doubt
There's nothing left for me to figure out
I've paid a price, and I'll keep paying
I'm not ready to make nice
I'm not ready to back down
I'm still mad as hell, and I don't have time
To go 'round and 'round and 'round
It's too late to make it right
I probably wouldn't if I could
'Cause I'm mad as hell
Can't bring myself to do what it is
You think I should
I know you said
Why can't you just get over it?
It turned my whole world around
And I kinda like it
I made my bed, and I sleep like a baby
With no regrets, and I don't mind saying
It's a sad, sad story
When a mother will teach her daughter
That she ought to hate a perfect stranger
And how

 
 
 
Greg Jones
5.1.3  Greg Jones  replied to  NV-Robin6 @5.1.2    3 weeks ago

[delete.]

 
 
 
NV-Robin6
5.1.4  NV-Robin6  replied to  Greg Jones @5.1.3    3 weeks ago

[deleted]

 
 
 
Freedom Warrior
5.1.5  Freedom Warrior  replied to  NV-Robin6 @5.1.4    3 weeks ago

[deleted]

 
 
 
igknorantzrulz
5.1.6  igknorantzrulz  replied to  Freedom Warrior @5.1.5    3 weeks ago

So i guess your taking the Enoch route also....

F we were on a different seed, i might even be tempted to elaborate.

 
 
 
igknorantzrulz
5.1.7  igknorantzrulz  replied to  Greg Jones @5.1.3    3 weeks ago

The Democrats are trying to get rid of Trump, but they will be beaten back in their seditious attempts.to overturn a valid and fair election.

Look, they've let the moron drive the toy car long enough. He's proven he can't operate under rules of Law. He's putting himself ahead of US, and has sold out to the highest bidders.

Too inept to win on his own.

To again desecrate what has been sacrificed by so many, all, for his own gain/violation,

is just not going to continue to flush, no matter how many times he plunges, it always seems to go deeper than the last, as he produces so much shit, he turned orange, and

i doubt, he ever truly was  Red White and Blue 

 
 
 
Freedom Warrior
5.1.8  Freedom Warrior  replied to  igknorantzrulz @5.1.6    3 weeks ago

[deleted]

 
 
 
igknorantzrulz
5.1.9  igknorantzrulz  replied to  Freedom Warrior @5.1.8    3 weeks ago

[delete]

 
 
 
Freedom Warrior
5.1.10  Freedom Warrior  replied to  igknorantzrulz @5.1.9    3 weeks ago

[delete]

 
 
 
NV-Robin6
5.1.11  NV-Robin6  replied to  Freedom Warrior @5.1.5    3 weeks ago

[delete]

 
 
 
NV-Robin6
5.1.12  NV-Robin6  replied to  igknorantzrulz @5.1.9    3 weeks ago

[deleted]

 
 
 
sandy-2021492
5.1.14  sandy-2021492  replied to  Freedom Warrior @5.1.10    3 weeks ago

FW, iggie, and robin, please cease this line of discussion.  If it continues, I'll be forced to lock this discussion until Perrie's return.  It's a nice article, and I'd rather not.

 
 
 
igknorantzrulz
5.1.15  igknorantzrulz  replied to  sandy-2021492 @5.1.14    3 weeks ago

i'm out 

did not wish to disrupt a positive productive seed, but,

i believe this could be a teaching moment,

as i did not initiate negative discussion tactics, but i just won't tolerate what i perceive as threatening rhetoric targeting ones that stay above that level.

I'll dance on any level, so lesson one, be respectful, and bow out when you know you are just doing what this seed wasaskng not be done as there are other ways to resolve differences, but to me, they're just not as much fun

 
 
 
Karri
5.1.16  Karri  replied to  sandy-2021492 @5.1.14    3 weeks ago

Thanks, sandy.  There was one comment where no names were mentioned, I felt personally insulted.  (I flagged it and moved on.  It would serve no purpose to respond.)

 
 
 
Krishna
5.1.17  Krishna  replied to  Perrie Halpern R.A. @5.1    3 weeks ago
"How to make friends and influence people".

I had heard about that book for years. It was a YUGE bestseller over many years. Finally I broke down and read it.

 
 
 
Krishna
5.1.18  Krishna  replied to  sandy-2021492 @5.1.1    3 weeks ago
I guess I'm just a pessimist at heart.

Based on your comments, I would say that description is inaccurate-- you're actually much more of a realist! 

 
 
 
Krishna
5.1.19  Krishna  replied to  NV-Robin6 @5.1.2    3 weeks ago
Only way to take them down is with logic, facts and shame, by boppin' them directly in the nose metaphorically and rhetorically

Well-- your strategy seems to be working-- it seems that 90% of what I read online is people angrily attacking each other...and rhetoric keeps getting nastier and nastier. Personal insults and attacks are common-- and dominating the interactions more and more!

Congratulations-- your efforts are suceeding!

 
 
 
Krishna
5.1.20  Krishna  replied to  igknorantzrulz @5.1.9    3 weeks ago
Doesn't this place have a Thunderdome or fckn something or other where anything goes ??

Heated Discussions?

 
 
 
Krishna
5.1.21  Krishna  replied to  sandy-2021492 @5.1.14    3 weeks ago

Ever wonder why so many "mentally-challenged" people are attracted to Social Media sites? (Sure, I've know some in "real life"-- but I've always wondered-- what is it about Social media that attracts so mentally of those sorts of people? 

So many who are mentally challenged-- but they're also really nasty.

WHY?

 
 
 
NV-Robin6
5.1.22  NV-Robin6  replied to  sandy-2021492 @5.1.14    3 weeks ago

Yes, I will.  I left my honest opinion and why.  Of course you see what followed to which I will point out the obvious of why playing nice is a pipe dream anymore.  I'm not out to ruin Perrie's call to civility. There hasn't been a day in the life here where that ugly isn't posted daily ad nauseam, with very little discernment by mods, including their calls to civil war and use of violence. I didn't bait FW personally, he took it upon his own to show what he's incapable of. Hence, why I'm at with my position. Sounds nice to have modicum of mutual respect when we disagree,  but let's get real as this is what were up against. Remember the good old days at NV, till the trolls showed up... ? It's hardly been respectful since. 

Look at some of the comments towards Loretta, since she dropped in. She's always tried a decent dialogue. She's just one of many who have tried. 

 

 
 
 
Freedom Warrior
5.1.24  Freedom Warrior  replied to  NV-Robin6 @5.1.11    3 weeks ago

 I got fired from a zookeeper job which I didn’t really think was fair ... there were signs everywhere saying don’t feed the animals ... so I didn’t 

 
 
 
Krishna
5.1.25  Krishna  replied to  Greg Jones @5.1.3    3 weeks ago
The coup was never accomplished, since Hillary was not elected. The Democrats are trying to get rid of Trump, but they will be beaten back in their seditious attempts.to overturn a valid and fair election.

I think you may have inadvertently left two many windows open. (Don't feel bad, I've done it myself from time to time).

But what we are discussing here is not Trump-- nor is it Hillary. 

Rather what we are discussing here is NT-- specifically this:

9 Tips For Talking To People You Disagree With

 
 
 
Krishna
5.1.26  Krishna  replied to  Krishna @5.1.25    3 weeks ago
[delete]
 
 
 
Krishna
5.1.27  Krishna  replied to  Freedom Warrior @5.1.10    3 weeks ago
Is that an invitation?

No-- its a river in Africa.

 
 
 
Krishna
5.1.28  Krishna  replied to  Freedom Warrior @5.1.24    3 weeks ago

I got fired from a zookeeper job which I didn’t really think was fair 

Well, frankly I'm surprised at you-- you should've known better than to take a job as a zookeeper in the first place!

 
 
 
NV-Robin6
5.1.29  NV-Robin6  replied to  Krishna @5.1.19    3 weeks ago

It's called reciprocity and it's  far from new here-- or by me. This nastiness is why I never stay here long. Every time I've taken a moment for just a flyover during my busy season where I mostly never say a thing, I find the the same old slap crap. Some are notoriously worse than others and seemingly seldom censored. Especially the rightwingers. Why is that? 

I just call a spade a spade and I will never apologize for being a realist.

 
 
 
Perrie Halpern R.A.
5.1.30  seeder  Perrie Halpern R.A.  replied to  NV-Robin6 @5.1.2    3 weeks ago
HI Perrie, IMO, we lost this civil discourse norm when there became no choice but to confront shameless bullies and the bullypulpit mentality across this nation that only really exacerbated with the invent of SM.That's not to say ugly and ignorant haven't always been prevalent.

That may be, but I have been dealing with those dynamics for a very long time, and I have only lost it maybe a handful of times. For me, I think it has to do with being a teacher for 20+ years, and you have to learn how to manage even people who are difficult to deal with. I think many of the tips they give in the article, I learned to do in my administration courses, (I had contemplated becoming a principle). 

 
 
 
Perrie Halpern R.A.
5.1.31  seeder  Perrie Halpern R.A.  replied to  Krishna @5.1.20    3 weeks ago

That is correct. If you want to go for an all out brawl, take it to HD and keep it off the front page. That is for civil discussions. 

 
 
 
Perrie Halpern R.A.
5.1.32  seeder  Perrie Halpern R.A.  replied to  NV-Robin6 @5.1.22    3 weeks ago

Robin,

Why is it a pipe dream? Have you ever seen me uncivil to anyone here?

Yes, there are individuals who come here to add nothing to the discussion, but there are plenty who do. 

As for moderation, there is no win. When we moderate more, people say we are being heavy handed. When we moderate less, then members say that the articles are going to hell. I am not sure if there is a perfect amount of moderation... Please, can someone explain this to me? 

 
 
 
Perrie Halpern R.A.
5.1.33  seeder  Perrie Halpern R.A.  replied to  NV-Robin6 @5.1.29    3 weeks ago

Robin,

I would hate for you to have a fly over but I am not sure there is any place on the internet that is perfect unless everyone is agreeing with each other.. and if that is going on, then why bother?

The point of a discussion site is to be challenged. That means sometimes even if everyone is civil, you might not like what they have to say. Am I wrong?

 
 
 
Ender
5.1.34  Ender  replied to  Perrie Halpern R.A. @5.1.33    3 weeks ago

I think the point trying to be made is sometimes the white noise is too loud.

Imo people just need to learn to ignore things they don't like. Sometimes it is hard though.

 
 
 
Perrie Halpern R.A.
5.1.35  seeder  Perrie Halpern R.A.  replied to  Ender @5.1.34    3 weeks ago

Exactly. That made me very happy, Ender! 

 
 
 
sixpick
5.1.36  sixpick  replied to  sandy-2021492 @5.1.1    3 weeks ago

Sandy, your comment is insightful to me.  Anyone can walk away from an internet site.  It's not as easy to walk away or take back offensive comments or actions made to relatives or friends who we take for granted will be with us for life.  They can just as easily be gone from our lives by our inability to realize there are some things more important than having our point of view accepted by them.  People here have become, over the years, like family and friends.  We feel their pain when they suffer and rejoice with them when they have reason to rejoice. 

 
 
 
igknorantzrulz
5.1.37  igknorantzrulz  replied to  Krishna @5.1.25    3 weeks ago

i also suspected,

i might of heard a whistle

As that trane of thought stops

when it is a Freight Trane of Aired and conditioned thought 

 
 
 
Krishna
5.1.38  Krishna  replied to  igknorantzrulz @5.1.6    3 weeks ago
your taking the Enoch route also....

The Enoch Route?

 
 
 
Krishna
5.1.39  Krishna  replied to  Krishna @5.1.38    3 weeks ago

Or-- perhaps this Enoch route?

320

 
 
 
Krishna
5.1.40  Krishna  replied to  Krishna @5.1.21    3 weeks ago

So many who are mentally challenged-- but they're also really nasty.

See #7 in the posted article, above.

(My use of "but" was deliberate)

 
 
 
Krishna
5.1.41  Krishna  replied to  NV-Robin6 @5.1.29    3 weeks ago
Some are notoriously worse than others and seemingly seldom censored. Especially the rightwingers. Why is that?

I dunno.

But if I had to guess, I'd venture to say that you probably think that because you are a "leftwinger"?

 
 
 
r.t..b...
6  r.t..b...    3 weeks ago

I just try to follow the 'Enoch' example. (not always as successfully as I'd like) 

 
 
 
Kathleen
6.1  Kathleen  replied to  r.t..b... @6    3 weeks ago

If I could vote that up a 1,000 times I would.

 
 
 
igknorantzrulz
6.1.1  igknorantzrulz  replied to  Kathleen @6.1    3 weeks ago

If I could vote that up a 1,000 times I would.

if i could vote that up once,  i did

 
 
 
Perrie Halpern R.A.
6.2  seeder  Perrie Halpern R.A.  replied to  r.t..b... @6    3 weeks ago

An excellent example of how to act. I think you do a really good job.

 
 
 
Kathleen
7  Kathleen    3 weeks ago

I admit that I have trouble with some of these things.  I do think in person with my family and friends I am more understanding then on social media. I guess those are the ones I love and it does make a big difference. I barely know the people on the internet.  Unless you meet some of these folks, you really don’t know who you are speaking to.  It definitely has merit.

 
 
 
Perrie Halpern R.A.
7.1  seeder  Perrie Halpern R.A.  replied to  Kathleen @7    3 weeks ago

I know that we all take more care with people we are looking at face to face and add family and friends, and we might take more care to bite out tounges. 

But I have been on these kinds of sites now for over 15 years, and I have to say, that I have always tried to be civil to everyone, even those I disagree with. I feel that my words are a reflection of who I am.

 
 
 
Kathleen
7.1.1  Kathleen  replied to  Perrie Halpern R.A. @7.1    3 weeks ago

I think I made too many mistakes on this site. I will never be able to recover to be the same as many others on here.  There are too many people that dislike me that I think it’s time to retire.

 
 
 
igknorantzrulz
7.1.2  igknorantzrulz  replied to  Kathleen @7.1.1    3 weeks ago

"too many people that dislike me"

That's why i'm HERE !

.

Come on now BFHS, i know of only one that genuinely seems to have a problem with you, but that is their problem. I'm an equal oppurtunity hater, and wish reciprocity damnet !

Your assessment, imho, is incorrect

 
 
 
Ender
7.1.3  Ender  replied to  Kathleen @7.1.1    3 weeks ago

I like you. I have made plenty of mistakes.I have said some things I regret. I know there are plenty of people that don't like me.

A lot of I's there.  Haha

We may not agree on everything and even had our arguments before yet I think we get along.

I enjoy your articles and a lot of times it seems like you are trying to lighten the atmosphere.

Hate to say it yet what made me like you was the ability to not take any crap.  Heh Heh

You and Colour are some of the few people I remember from the NBC boards. She needs to come around more.

 
 
 
squiggy
7.1.4  squiggy  replied to  Kathleen @7.1.1    3 weeks ago

“... too many people that dislike me...”

No way. You’re one of the kindest voices here - honest, consistent with never an axe to grind. 

 
 
 
Krishna
7.1.5  Krishna  replied to  Perrie Halpern R.A. @7.1    3 weeks ago
But I have been on these kinds of sites now for over 15 years, and I have to say, that I have always tried to be civil to everyone, even those I disagree with.

I used to be like that (although I've been participating in Internet discussion forums for a bit over 35 years. ...

But for decades (literally) I was one of the nicest, most courteous people around. In fact I often used to work with the more more obnoxiopus (and/or mentally defective) users to achieve harmony!

But I've come to realize it doesn't wok so well any longer-- over the last few years being nice just generated more hostility and insults.,,,ongoing! 

(Of course you might not experience that as often as we do, as most (but certainly not all)-users have the good sense to realize that directly insulting a moderator is not a smart move...)

 
 
 
Krishna
7.1.6  Krishna  replied to  Kathleen @7.1.1    3 weeks ago
I will never be able to recover to be the same as many others on here.

Times have changed.

I imagine many people won't believe me when I say this-- but when I started using the Internet just about every was courteous! 

And that was reflected in what people talked about back then (At different times I was active in the early days on Prodigy and AOL.S. Most of the conversation was about interests people had: sports. Cooking. Family, Cars, Hobbies. Yes,  what is important to normal people. Little if any discussion of politics-- at least in the larger forums. And most of that was a real discussion-- yes, people actually listened to what others said before replying! It wasn't like the Internet today where political discussions seem like religious evangelism from several different fundamentalist cults!

 
 
 
Kathleen
7.1.7  Kathleen  replied to  Krishna @7.1.6    3 weeks ago

I must have missed all that.  I came in when everyone seemed to be at each other’s throats. I have had some really nice philosophical conversations.  To me, they are the best.

 
 
 
Krishna
7.1.8  Krishna  replied to  Kathleen @7.1.1    3 weeks ago
I will never be able to recover to be the same as many others on here.  There are too many people that dislike me that I think it’s time to retire.

Actually I've been thinking similar things . . .

 
 
 
Krishna
7.1.9  Krishna  replied to  Kathleen @7.1.7    3 weeks ago

I didn't mthe exact year I started using the Internet. But I had just bought my first computer, it was a "386 PC".

So I googled it:

The Intel 80386, also known as i386 or just 386, is a 32-bit microprocessor introduced in 1985. The first versions had 275,000 transistors and were the CPU of many workstations and high-end personal computers of the time.   Wikipedia

It wasn't a brand new model-- had probably been out a year or so, so it was probably waaay back in 1986. (or even possibly early 1987?)

I had it quite a while before I decided to go online (back then most people didn't use the Internet-- most people bought a computer for word-processing-- and/or games. Actually, most people didn;t even consider buying a computer-- they had no need for one!

 
 
 
Krishna
7.1.10  Krishna  replied to  Kathleen @7.1.7    3 weeks ago
I must have missed all that.  I came in when everyone seemed to be at each other’s throats. I have had some really nice philosophical conversations.  To me, they are the best.

I've always has a few friends-- but a fairly small number. About three years ago a met a whole group of people-- who have monthly discussion groups (mostly about psychology and the MBTI-- but the conversations go off into all topics). These are mostly very intelligent types, so we avoid politics in the groups

(But we've often had serious political discussions in smaller groups-- and as I mentioned, these are really intelligent people-- to sa person they are very tolerant of people with different opinions. And we've had some really enlightening discussions about politics-- people are able to discuss, for example ,the differences between conservative and liberal philosophies without ever making thwe other side wrong).

I have friends who voted for trump, Hillary, and a rare few who voted for a thord party candidate because they didn't like either. And we all get alomg fine! (But as I mentioned, these peopel are more intelligent than the average person who spends a lot of time in online discussions...)

 
 
 
NV-Robin6
7.1.11  NV-Robin6  replied to  Krishna @7.1.5    3 weeks ago

Yes you were  This is exactly what I'm saying too.  

 
 
 
Ender
7.1.12  Ender  replied to  Krishna @7.1.9    3 weeks ago

I have to disagree a little. I remember the AOL chat sites. Not all of them were that nice.

Of course it was a weird experience for me at the time. A new dawn a new day.

That we have young people now that have never known a world without social media...

I could never imagine. We spent our days outside not even wanting to come in for dinner.

First computer though was one of them Commodore things. Commodore 64, I think.

 
 
 
Kathleen
7.1.13  Kathleen  replied to  Krishna @7.1.9    3 weeks ago

I think I bought my first computer in the year 1998.

 
 
 
lib50
7.1.14  lib50  replied to  Kathleen @7.1.1    3 weeks ago
I think I made too many mistakes on this site. I will never be able to recover to be the same as many others on here.  There are too many people that dislike me that I think it’s time to retire

Oh, I hope not!  I love you even when we disagree!  I think you add a lot. I'm sure most people don't understand me,   I just have gotten to the point I don't care, in my 'real life' I'm still me and well liked, here I let loose and its true, the mood can be everything.  But we all learn from each other (ok I learn more from some than others) but I just step back once in a while.  It can take energy to keep up here.  Oh, and mistakes, everybody makes them.   I wasn't going to comment because almost out of battery, but you are liked. 

 
 
 
Kathleen
7.1.15  Kathleen  replied to  lib50 @7.1.14    3 weeks ago

Awww, love you too Lib....

I know we disagree on some things, but others we do. : )

 
 
 
Krishna
7.1.16  Krishna  replied to  Kathleen @7.1.1    3 weeks ago
I think I made too many mistakes on this site. I will never be able to recover to be the same as many others on here.  There are too many people that dislike me that I think it’s time to retire.

I think that if people dislike you, its because they are people who dislike anyone who has different opinions than you do. Many people (perhaps even the majority?) on social media sites such as NT are very arrogant and self-righteous-- they are very intolerant of anyone who has a different opinion than they do.

So if there are people who dislike you-- don't assume its yourn necessarily your fault-- or that you did something wrong. Because a lot of people here are such intolerant "know it alls"-- they dislike anyone who has different views.

 
 
 
Kathleen
7.1.17  Kathleen  replied to  Krishna @7.1.10    3 weeks ago

Perhaps it’s best to be more mechanical and only speak facts. It’s being too emotional that gets you into trouble.  I may try that instead of the way I am now.  It seems like it only makes things worse.

 
 
 
Jack_TX
7.1.18  Jack_TX  replied to  Kathleen @7.1.1    3 weeks ago
I think I made too many mistakes on this site. I will never be able to recover to be the same as many others on here.  There are too many people that dislike me that I think it’s time to retire.

I find this comment astonishing.

You're one of the most polite and earnest people here. 

 
 
 
dave-2693993
7.1.19  dave-2693993  replied to  Kathleen @7.1.1    3 weeks ago
I think I made too many mistakes on this site.

JMO, I think you are giving too much credit to those with agendas everywhere/time they pretend to engage a conversation.

 
 
 
sixpick
7.1.20  sixpick  replied to  Kathleen @7.1.1    3 weeks ago

What are you talking about Kathleen?  I assume you've said and done things you regret.  Well, join the crowd. Raise your hand if you've never regretted anything you've done or said.  Look around Kathleen and you'll see everyone has their hands raised.  You've always come across as a sincere caring person and don't let anyone tell you anything different.  Actually, I don't think anyone who matters will tell you anything different. 

When I was in high school, I was sent to the principal's office for something I got in trouble for in class.  Mr. Byrd, the principal, was a very stern person who was known for taking his belt off and bouncing it off your bottom if you got into trouble.  I had a pretty hefty fear of him when I walked into his office.

Well, Mr. Byrd had me sit across from him while he took a piece of paper and marked all over it.  He passed it across his desk to me..  He said this is today.  He gave me a clean sheet of paper and said, "This is tomorrow".  Then he whipped my ass.

 
 
 
sixpick
7.1.21  sixpick  replied to  Krishna @7.1.9    3 weeks ago
Actually, most people didn;t even consider buying a computer-- they had no need for one!

Mine was an IBM XT with a great big 10MB hard drive.  Wow, one minute of music on a CD.  I used it primarily for business.  It cost $5000 dollars with the monitor and printer.  I guess for $5000 today I could get an entire music studio's worth of computer with a number of TB worth of storage capacity today.

 
 
 
igknorantzrulz
7.1.22  igknorantzrulz  replied to  sixpick @7.1.20    3 weeks ago

appreciated comment

 
 
 
lib50
7.1.23  lib50  replied to  Kathleen @7.1.17    3 weeks ago

Notice how both sides like and respect you?  You got us to agree on something, no small feat.

 
 
 
Krishna
7.1.24  Krishna  replied to  Ender @7.1.12    3 weeks ago
First computer though was one of them Commodore things. Commodore 64, I think.

Commodore 64 

Although it looks like an unimpessive keyboard-like box, the  Commodore 64  was incredibly popular. More C64s have been sold than any other single computer system, even to this day. That's about 17 million systems, according to the Commodore 1993 Annual Report.

In a  1989 interview , Sam Tramiel, then-president of Commodore, said that "When I was at Commodore we were building 400,000 C64s a month for a couple of years."

BTW that site ( oldcomputers,net ) is an amazing site-- incredible amount of info (and pictures) re; old computers. People can probably find a lot about their first computer there!

 
 
 
Krishna
7.1.25  Krishna  replied to  Krishna @7.1.24    3 weeks ago

In 1984, Commodore released the  SX64 , the *portable* C64, with a built-in monitor, floppy drive and power supply.

320

 
 
 
Ender
8  Ender    3 weeks ago

Problem I see is a lot of people don't even want a conversation. A lot of seeds are not even meant for conversation.

I generally know who I can converse with and who I cannot. Some I just ignore completely and some seeds I just avoid.

I think most people wouldn't say half the things they say if it was in person. Anonymity frees the beast...so to speak.

What I see is a lot of tribalism.

 
 
 
sandy-2021492
8.1  sandy-2021492  replied to  Ender @8    3 weeks ago

Agreed.  Some articles are meant to be conversational echo chambers, and some are meant to be bait.

 
 
 
igknorantzrulz
8.1.1  igknorantzrulz  replied to  sandy-2021492 @8.1    3 weeks ago

Agreed.  Some articles are meant to be conversational echo chambers, and some are meant to be bait.

i'll take that bait, digest it, and produce my own echo chamber spewed out by some A whole lot of gastric expulsion ignited by my heavier than most lighter pants on fire with faux desire to never under,

where

dowst due expire from transgressions held no higher on scorched earth ,

heavens to mergatroid, on fires from hell and back

in front of the panel

out of control  , cause,

i don't even remotely N joy control   

 
 
 
mocowgirl
9  mocowgirl    3 weeks ago

Nice seed.  

Kudos to you, Perrie, for trying to promote some level of civil discourse.  And, thank you for providing this platform.  

Curiosity about  all existence (everything and everyone in it) and endless questions about the experiences that shape other people's perspectives is what brought me to the internet forums.   I live to learn - not to fight with anyone. 

I try to avoid interacting with the people who appear to be vying for the Most Disagreeable, Unreasonable, Biased Person in the World award.  I do read their comments often because I believe they may have valid concerns that should not be ignored.

With the changing of the season, and an end to extremely hot and humid weather in much of the nation, I am hoping that as temperatures fall, so do people's tempers.

 
 
 
Raven Wing
9.1  Raven Wing  replied to  mocowgirl @9    3 weeks ago
I live to learn - not to fight with anyone. 

I am the same, mocowgirl. I have a passion for learning, and not just from books. A good deal can be learned about life from the different experiences of others, their opinions, traditions, customs, and ways of looking at the world and all phases of life.

I do not come here to fight with anyone, but, I also do not come here to be denigrated, demeaned and humiliated by misogynists who think that are far superior to any woman and does their best to try and put them "in their place". 

I can give as good as I get, but, that is not the kind of person I am, and I don't like myself when I go to that level. But, when attacked I will stand my ground. I have just as much right to state my own opinions and/or thoughts on any topic as anyone else here, and I respect the right to others to do the same. While I may not always agree with them, I prefer to find out why they think the way they do, as this is also a way to learn. No one is right 100% of the time, so learning from others can open the doors to areas we may not have considered before. 

Life is an endless learning process, that is how we grow and progress. When we stop being willing to learn we are harming no one but ourselves, and the consequences of our lack of knowledge are our own to bear.

There is a lot of knowledge that can be shared by those here on NT, as the spectrum of Members here is very wide. Thus, the sharing their collective knowledge would be very beneficial if only we would all keep an open mind and be willing to learn from each other.

JMOO

 
 
 
Ender
9.1.1  Ender  replied to  Raven Wing @9.1    3 weeks ago
No one is right 100% of the time

What? Say it ain't so....That burst my bubble...

Haha

 
 
 
Raven Wing
9.1.2  Raven Wing  replied to  Ender @9.1.1    3 weeks ago
That burst my bubble...

Mine too when I first heard that. But, I am willing to agree to just being right 99% of the time now.  320

 
 
 
Ender
9.1.3  Ender  replied to  Raven Wing @9.1.2    3 weeks ago

99.999999

Love the dancing banana hahaha

 
 
 
Raven Wing
9.1.4  Raven Wing  replied to  Ender @9.1.3    3 weeks ago
99.999999

That's about right. jrSmiley_91_smiley_image.gif

 
 
 
mocowgirl
9.1.5  mocowgirl  replied to  Raven Wing @9.1    3 weeks ago
A good deal can be learned about life from the different experiences of others, their opinions, traditions, customs, and ways of looking at the world and all phases of life.

I have always found you to be a wise and balanced woman in your approach to life.  It has been a pleasure to have made your acquaintance.

I do not come here to fight with anyone, but, I also do not come here to be denigrated, demeaned and humiliated by misogynists who think that are far superior to any woman and does their best to try and put them "in their place". 

I understand completely.  I live in that world in real time off the internet.

I can give as good as I get, but, that is not the kind of person I am, and I don't like myself when I go to that level.

I can nearly eviscerate a person with words.  I don't go to that level because I find my life is happier (and safer) when I avoid people who are devoid of positive human emotions.  

In order to better understand why some people are born to cooperate and some people aren't, I have bought some books by Robert Sapolsky about his studies on the evolution of human behavior.  If I manage to reacquire my passion for reading, I plan to spend this winter hibernating with old and new books.

 
 
 
sixpick
9.1.6  sixpick  replied to  Raven Wing @9.1    3 weeks ago
I can give as good as I get, but, that is not the kind of person I am, and I don't like myself when I go to that level.

Believe me Raven, I can relate to that.

 
 
 
Raven Wing
9.1.7  Raven Wing  replied to  mocowgirl @9.1.5    3 weeks ago
I have always found you to be a wise and balanced woman in your approach to life.  It has been a pleasure to have made your acquaintance.

Same here mocawgirl. I have always learned a good deal from your very informative and insightful comments. You have a very effervescent persona and can easily communicate your thoughts and opinions with ease.

I can nearly eviscerate a person with words.  I don't go to that level because I find my life is happier (and safer) when I avoid people who are devoid of positive human emotions. 

I often find that many people like that make a lot of their own unhappiness in the way they relate to others.  I prefer not to engage them and simply ignore them.

 
 
 
Raven Wing
9.1.8  Raven Wing  replied to  sixpick @9.1.6    3 weeks ago
Believe me Raven, I can relate to that.

I think there are many who can also relate to that, but, they too realize the need for them to take the high road as well. There is nothing of value to be gained by engaging in a battle of words that will lower their own credibility and self-respect.

 
 
 
igknorantzrulz
9.1.9  igknorantzrulz  replied to  Raven Wing @9.1.8    3 weeks ago

There is nothing of value to be gained by engaging in a battle of words that will lower their own credibility and self-respect.

Hey Raven, i must respectfully disagree , id rather choose to not shun and disregard divisive attacks on my expressed opinion, or others simply non defiantly attempting to American Express their rightfully deserved opinion , as that is the purpose of this site.

i do not wish to lower my credibility and or self respect, and not calling out others, would be my equavilent. 

 
 
 
Krishna
9.2  Krishna  replied to  mocowgirl @9    3 weeks ago
With the changing of the season, and an end to extremely hot and humid weather in much of the nation, I am hoping that as temperatures fall, so do people's tempers.

Or maybe a new planet will be discovered..or there will be an earthquake in some remote part of Africa-- and that will change the level of discussion here.

It can't hurt to have a positive attitude!

 
 
 
mocowgirl
9.2.1  mocowgirl  replied to  Krishna @9.2    3 weeks ago
It can't hurt to have a positive attitude!

It is essential to mental and physical well-being to have a positive attitude.

All of us are the product of people who survived the environments of the time periods that they were born in.  Those environments were mostly considerably harsher that the ones most of us were born into in the last 60 years.

Our species has the ability to do great things together.  I tend to believe that the youth will do great things together even though it might not be the way it was done in the "good old days".  

 
 
 
Perrie Halpern R.A.
9.3  seeder  Perrie Halpern R.A.  replied to  mocowgirl @9    3 weeks ago

Thanks Mocogirl! 

Curiosity about  all existence (everything and everyone in it) and endless questions about the experiences that shape other people's perspectives is what brought me to the internet forums.   I live to learn - not to fight with anyone. 

Exactly!

I try to avoid interacting with the people who appear to be vying for the Most Disagreeable, Unreasonable, Biased Person in the World award.  I do read their comments often because I believe they may have valid concerns that should not be ignored.

Ditto. 

With the changing of the season, and an end to extremely hot and humid weather in much of the nation, I am hoping that as temperatures fall, so do people's tempers.

I hope so, but I fear as we get closer to the election, we might get a bit more "passionate" shall we say. 

 
 
 
mocowgirl
9.3.1  mocowgirl  replied to  Perrie Halpern R.A. @9.3    3 weeks ago
I hope so, but I fear as we get closer to the election, we might get a bit more "passionate" shall we say. 

After the "passionate" 2016 election, the world did not end.

I am extremely doubtful that the 2020 election will bring about the destruction of mankind.  

If it does, I will deal with it when it happens. 

In the meantime, I intend to squeeze every last drop of peace, contentment and joy that I can by living in the present and appreciating it.

 
 
 
Karri
10  Karri    3 weeks ago

6. Talk less. Give the other person space to respond

I enjoy the Sunday morning opinion shows.  I hope to hear both sides.  However, that did not happen in many cases this morning.  There were several "guests" who shouted and would not allow the host or other guests to respond.  They came across as quite angry.

Their rude, angry and (in many cases) non-factual cases proved to me that they could not really defend their position.  So, rather convincing me that they were right, they proved to me that they were wrong. 

 
 
 
Ender
10.1  Ender  replied to  Karri @10    3 weeks ago

I fear it is only going to get louder and more bombastic.

 
 
 
JBB
10.2  JBB  replied to  Karri @10    3 weeks ago

[deleted]

 
 
 
Karri
10.2.1  Karri  replied to  JBB @10.2    3 weeks ago

[deleted]

 
 
 
Raven Wing
10.2.2  Raven Wing  replied to  JBB @10.2    3 weeks ago

[deleted]

 
 
 
JBB
10.2.3  JBB  replied to  Raven Wing @10.2.2    3 weeks ago

[deleted]

 
 
 
Raven Wing
10.2.4  Raven Wing  replied to  JBB @10.2.3    3 weeks ago

[deleted]

 
 
 
Krishna
10.2.5  Krishna  replied to  Karri @10.2.1    3 weeks ago

[deleted]

 
 
 
JBB
10.2.6  JBB  replied to  Raven Wing @10.2.4    3 weeks ago

[deleted]

 
 
 
Raven Wing
10.2.7  Raven Wing  replied to  JBB @10.2.6    3 weeks ago

[deleted]

 
 
 
JBB
10.2.8  JBB  replied to  Raven Wing @10.2.7    3 weeks ago

[deleted]

 
 
 
Krishna
10.2.9  Krishna  replied to  JBB @10.2.6    3 weeks ago

[deleted]

 
 
 
JBB
10.2.10  JBB  replied to  Krishna @10.2.9    3 weeks ago

[deleted]

 
 
 
Perrie Halpern R.A.
10.2.11  seeder  Perrie Halpern R.A.  replied to  JBB @10.2.10    3 weeks ago

To everyone above.

I removed your comments because they had nothing to do with the article. Sorry about that. 

 
 
 
Krishna
10.3  Krishna  replied to  Karri @10    3 weeks ago
I enjoy the Sunday morning opinion shows.  I hope to hear both sides.  However, that did not happen in many cases this morning.  There were several "guests" who shouted and would not allow the host or other guests to respond.  They came across as quite angry. Their rude, angry and (in many cases) non-factual cases proved to me that they could not really defend their position.  So, rather convincing me that they were right, they proved to me that they were wrong. 

I think that much of the nastiness on social media sites is exacerbated by their users watching these political talk shows. 

Many social media users are not too bright-- or at least aren't too capable of critical thinking. So they log on to sites like NT and blindly parrot the sheer stupidity and extreme nastiness & intolerance  the see on TV....

 
 
 
Perrie Halpern R.A.
10.4  seeder  Perrie Halpern R.A.  replied to  Karri @10    3 weeks ago

Funny, I had the same reaction this morning. I wonder if they know of their net effect on people.

 
 
 
Kathleen
11  Kathleen    3 weeks ago

It’s a shame that this article has become political. It seems like wherever you go, you can’t seem to get away from it.   Sad.

 
 
 
squiggy
11.1  squiggy  replied to  Kathleen @11    3 weeks ago

Just a bar fight. You can go around it or stop and throw a chair. Fights are more often started by how something is said rather than the essence. I used to work with a guy who would preface a statement with, “ I don’t mean to be a dick but...” and it was off to the races. There’s a tenth point I use - “Do I want to be right or do I want to buy groceries?”

 
 
 
Kathleen
11.1.1  Kathleen  replied to  squiggy @11.1    3 weeks ago

Ohhh, okay, maybe it’s allowed as long as it’s civil.

 
 
 
Krishna
11.1.2  Krishna  replied to  squiggy @11.1    3 weeks ago
Just a bar fight.

I think many people don't realize that they have a choice-- just because there's a bar on the street that you habitually enter  ou pass by every day-- doesn't mean you have to keep doing it.

After all there are many other doors on the street-- maybe consider choosing to go through a different door? After all, there are many other doors-- many of which don't lead to premises where there are continual bar fights?

 
 
 
Krishna
11.1.3  Krishna  replied to  Krishna @11.1.2    3 weeks ago
Just a bar fight.
I think many people don't realize that they have a choice-- just because there's a bar on the street that you habitually enter  ou pass by every day-- doesn't mean you have to keep doing it.

After all there are many other doors on the street-- maybe consider choosing to go through a different door? After all, there are many other doors-- many of which don't lead to premises where there are continual bar fights?

320

 
 
 
Ender
11.2  Ender  replied to  Kathleen @11    3 weeks ago

How dare you. I only sai...wait...oh.

Haha

People can bring politics into a conversation about a bird. Even though the bird is the word.

 
 
 
Kathleen
11.2.1  Kathleen  replied to  Ender @11.2    3 weeks ago

They sure can...  : )

 
 
 
Krishna
11.2.2  Krishna  replied to  Ender @11.2    3 weeks ago
People can bring politics into a conversation about a bird. Even though the bird is the word.

Here is a true story:

A while back I was describing what Social Media discussions were like-- to a friend who never used social media. I mentioned that the general calibre of people who spend a lot of time online was quite low-- generally they were pretty stupid-- as well as nasty. And as an example I mentioned that if, for example there was a discussion solely about on peoples' pet cats-- some moron would inevitably make a comment about how Clinton or Bush or some other political was an idiot who was ruining the country, the world etc. etc.

Well, almost two years later I was involved in a really excellent online discussion  where people were discussing their pet cats, and then we got involved in a really interesting discussion about the characteristics of various breeds.

And lo and behold-- my "prediction" came to pass!  Someone in the discussion said something about if Trump had one of these cats-- he would mistreat it! (paraphrasing-- I don't remember the sexact words). This imbecile just couldn't resist the temptation to start prostelytizing their political views!!!

......Stuck on Stupid

 
 
 
Ender
11.2.3  Ender  replied to  Krishna @11.2.2    3 weeks ago

It never fails. trump, Clinton, Obama, etc.

Sometimes it is nice to take a break from all that yet inevitably someone will come along.

I have watched the show Big Brother for years. There is a online chat site we all use to talk about what is going on, laugh about what the people are doing, complain about how the broadcast shows show a different narrative, etc.

What I love about it is we all have a spoken pact, no politics at all. When someone does bring it up it is shut down fast.

I know it can be upsetting what the idiots in Washington are doing yet I don't want it to consume my life or online experience.

I also guess my earworm didn't take...Darnit.  : )

 
 
 
Krishna
11.2.4  Krishna  replied to  Ender @11.2.3    3 weeks ago
Sometimes it is nice to take a break from all that yet inevitably someone will come along.

A while back (maybe some 20 years ago or so) I finaly realized that most people on social media sites such as NT really aren't too bright.

And my experience since then has only reinforced my initial impression.

(Although I suppose I'm a slow learner-- on rare occasions I slip into delusional thinking and find myself expecting that there is intelligent life online-- admittedly sometimes I can bea real fool!)

 
 
 
Krishna
11.2.5  Krishna  replied to  Ender @11.2.3    3 weeks ago
I know it can be upsetting what the idiots in Washington are doing yet I don't want it to consume my life or online experience.

Are the peopl in this discussion (those that keep on derailing the conversation with mindless political topics) actually living in Washington?

 
 
 
Ender
11.2.6  Ender  replied to  Krishna @11.2.4    3 weeks ago

Personally I have learned it is what I make it. I have been through pissed off times, I have been through sad times, I have taken breaks.

My last break did me wonders. I am just going to have fun, say what I think, maybe a discussion or two.

There are some smart people there. I always look for humour, wit, how they operate.

I get what you are saying though. Sometimes I catch myself mirroring how people act towards me and start acting the same way back. I try to catch myself now and get back into my own mood, not let them dictate how I feel or act.

Being left, there are some on the right I can have good conversations with.

Sometimes it just seems like turning off the noise, static.

Believe it or not I actually just want to have more fun around here. Everyone seems like a stick in the mud lately.

 
 
 
Ender
11.2.7  Ender  replied to  Krishna @11.2.5    3 weeks ago

I thought they were paid Russian bots.

Sorry ! Had to.  Haha

 
 
 
Krishna
11.2.8  Krishna  replied to  Ender @11.2.6    3 weeks ago
There are some smart people there.

Definitely.

But it seems the other types are in the majority....

 
 
 
Ender
11.2.9  Ender  replied to  Krishna @11.2.8    3 weeks ago

Static, noise.

What I am trying to do is tune that out. Once I quiet it, I can see a little beyond. What lies underneath.

 
 
 
sixpick
11.2.10  sixpick  replied to  Ender @11.2.6    3 weeks ago

Thanks Ender.  I needed that comment.  I've gone overboard today.  I've participated too much.  I've found if I just limit myself to one or two comments for the day or night, I do a whole lot better.  It's easy to be lured into things you have no real control over.  You can feel the frustrations coming from within and without.  A little coffee is good, but 5 pots of coffee doesn't go well.

 
 
 
Krishna
11.3  Krishna  replied to  Kathleen @11    3 weeks ago
It’s a shame that this article has become political. It seems like wherever you go, you can’t seem to get away from it.   Sad.

Actually when I had starting reading the comments I was under the mistaken impression that this discussion was meta-- somethingn about how we could be more tolerant of people here who had difffering opinions that we did. In order to improve the level of discussion here.

That what I had thought.

Silly me!

 
 
 
Kathleen
11.3.1  Kathleen  replied to  Krishna @11.3    3 weeks ago

: )

 
 
 
sixpick
11.4  sixpick  replied to  Kathleen @11    3 weeks ago
It’s a shame that this article has become political. It seems like wherever you go, you can’t seem to get away from it.   Sad

I know what you mean, Kathleen.  I was late anyway, but I'm out of here.  And everything was going along so nicely.  I was feeling kind of warm inside. LOL

 
 
 
dave-2693993
12  dave-2693993    3 weeks ago

First I think it is important to understand if what unfolds is a real discussion or not.

Just like in real life, some folks are quarrelsome and will do any thing to quarrel and often rely on beavis and butt head type logic to continue their quarels. Then there are those with an agenda. Pretty much the same sitiuation.

There is no good way out of those situations and the internet seems to have an over representation of such ones.

If, on the other hand are real and honest discussion evolves, then yes, such suggestions could be very helpful to take a topic from point A to point B, with or without coming to agreements. In some cases the common ground is a better understanding of each others perspective, even in the case of disagreement.

JMO.

 
 
 
Raven Wing
12.1  Raven Wing  replied to  dave-2693993 @12    3 weeks ago
In some cases the common ground is a better understanding of each others perspective, even in the case of disagreement.

Being able to find common ground in a discussion, even when disagreeing, adds value to the conversation. Being respectful of the other party, even though you may disagree with their way of thinking, can help both participants reach a better understanding of the others' thinking and/or opinions. It is not necessary to become defensive just because the other person does not agree with you. Becoming defensive only sets the negative tone of the discussion that is unnecessary and makes it difficult to have a mutually civil debate or discussion. 

JMOO

 
 
 
†hε pε⊕pレε'š ƒïšh
13  †hε pε⊕pレε'š ƒïšh    3 weeks ago

I like to validate my argument with the end all be all of arguments, "but Trump".  It's the best closer.

 
 
 
Krishna
13.1  Krishna  replied to  †hε pε⊕pレε'š ƒïšh @13    3 weeks ago

Or "but Hillary" . . . .

There even developped a popular term for that attempt at derail-- its called a "whattaboutism").

 
 
Loading...
Loading...

Who is online


Krishna
Kavika
GregTx
pat wilson
arkpdx


33 visitors