Trans athlete claims lesbians are transphobic for not liking penises

  
Via:  badfish-hd-h-u  •  3 weeks ago  •  72 comments

Trans athlete claims lesbians are transphobic for not liking penises

S E E D E D   C O N T E N T


Dr. Rachel McKinnon, philosophy professor, cyclist, trans woman, came to fame in 2018 when she made  history  by being the first trans athlete to win the women’s 2018 UCI Masters Track Cycling World Championships. McKinnon is a vocal trans advocate who has spoken out in favour of trans women competing in women’s sports, has physically dominated biological women in her own sport of cycling, and, most recently, has taken to Twitter to pen endless threads against the so-called “cotton ceiling.”

If you haven’t heard of the cotton ceiling, consider yourself lucky. Per  Curve Magazine , the phrase was “coined by porn actress and activist Drew DeVeaux in 2015. It’s been used to refer to the tendency by cisgender lesbians to outwardly include and support trans women, but draw the line at considering ever having sex with them.” In short, if you’re a lesbian and you’re not attracted to trans women because they don’t have female genitals, you’re a transphobe, a no-good, prejudiced, privileged, cis-gendered bigot.

YouTuber Riley J. Dennis made a   video   to explain this issue. She asks “Would you date a trans person? Honestly? I’ll give you a second to think about it. Ok? Got your answer? Well if you said “no,” I’m sorry, but that’s pretty discriminatory. Now, don’t get me wrong, I’m not saying you’re a horrible person who hates trans people. There was probably a time in my life when I would have said I wouldn’t date a trans person. But since then I’ve thought critically about it and I’ve changed my mind.”

The idea here is that if a lesbian just thinks about it hard enough, and examines her internal biases, then she will find that there’s no logical reason she shouldn’t be attracted to trans people. In fact, she might find that there’s no reason she should not be attracted to any people. According to McKinnon, only the sexual orientation “pan,” otherwise known as “no preference of type of sexual partner,” is moral.

This whole thing of criticizing lesbians for being into women is so perplexing, but this is how we got here. The word woman became inclusive of persons who are not female but have a strong feeling that they were meant to be women. Because women are typically so amiable and conditioned to please, they just went along with it, out of compassion. Trans women said they were not just living as women, but actual women. After these leaps of logic were made, this reasoning comes into play: if a lesbian is a woman who is sexually attracted to other women, and trans women are women, then lesbians should be attracted to trans women, if there’s not, there’s something wrong with those lesbians. 

It’s like a tongue-twister, where a woman can come to understand that the right thing to do is to conform to another person’s idea of what her sexuality means, in order to not be a bad person. The thought process lesbians are supposed to undertake in order to correct their sexual preference goes like this: I am a lesbian who is attracted to women, women are not defined by their bodies, therefore if a man who says she is a woman says she is a lesbian, I should find her sexually attractive despite her male body. 

Okay, sure! Makes total sense. The only problem is that sexual attraction isn’t logical. Sexual attraction is not really a mind over matter enterprise. Sexual attraction is not a human characteristic that falls under the heading of rationalism. 

In fact, the gay rights movement was able to gain mainstream societal acceptance precisely due to the claim that homosexuality is not a choice, but an innate characteristic, just like heterosexuality, or green eyes. If McKinnon, Dennis, and others who rail against the “cotton ceiling” want to overturn the idea that sexuality is innate, they might find themselves on unstable ground in the fight for trans acceptance. Once a thread is pulled, the whole sweater unravels.

Parker Molloy, Editor-at-Large for Media Matters and trans ally, pushed back. 

But McKinnon did get some people thinking about their own complicity in the transphobia of sexual preference.

If being a lesbian who doesn’t like penises isn’t acceptable, and being a gay man who isn’t into vaginas isn’t alright, then what do these words and concepts even mean? Perhaps this is why movements to “Get the L Out” of the alphabet soup of gender and sexual identities has been picking up steam in the lesbian community. Lesbians are   pushing back   against LGBT advocacy groups like Stonewall UK, letting them know that they are no longer representing their best interests. 

Lesbians’ sexual preference isn’t prejudiced against trans people, and the notion of a “cotton ceiling,” the cotton undies that “bar” trans women from women-only-attracted lesbians, is a complete insult to lesbians. Lesbians don’t owe anyone anything—not their bodies, not their voices, not their acquiescence. If McKinnon wants someone to enjoy her penis, she should find a sexual partner who digs that, instead of throwing shade on the people who don’t. 

Tags

jrDiscussion - desc
smarty_function_ntUser_is_admin: user_id parameter required
Find text within the comments Find 
 
†hε pε⊕pレε'š ƒïšh
1  seeder  †hε pε⊕pレε'š ƒïšh    3 weeks ago

There is a war going on in the acronym community. The L doesn't like penis and is considered bigoted. The push for the change to GBTQ is on. 

Stay tuned, will L be removed?

 
 
 
Greg Jones
1.1  Greg Jones  replied to  †hε pε⊕pレε'š ƒïšh @1    3 weeks ago

Nah, lesbians will always be with us. Trannyism is a mental illness.

 
 
 
zuksam
1.2  zuksam  replied to  †hε pε⊕pレε'š ƒïšh @1    3 weeks ago

Like Ted the talking teddy bear said "There are no Chicks with Dicks Johnny only Guys with Tits"

 
 
 
†hε pε⊕pレε'š ƒïšh
1.2.1  seeder  †hε pε⊕pレε'š ƒïšh  replied to  zuksam @1.2    3 weeks ago

Scissor with the Screwdriver or get nailed by your own community. 

 
 
 
It Is ME
2  It Is ME    3 weeks ago

"by being the first trans athlete to win the women’s 2018 UCI Masters Track Cycling World Championships."

Dr. Rachel McKinnon must really hate women.

 
 
 
†hε pε⊕pレε'š ƒïšh
2.1  seeder  †hε pε⊕pレε'š ƒïšh  replied to  It Is ME @2    3 weeks ago

Look it's simple, If  a man is a woman but still has a mule and likes girls, she's a lesbian. If lesbians won't date her because she has a mule, they are bigoted.

That's the debate in a nutshell....

Like the cock or leave....GBTQ without you!

 
 
 
It Is ME
2.1.1  It Is ME  replied to  †hε pε⊕pレε'š ƒïšh @2.1    3 weeks ago
Like the cock or leave..

Muscles rule ?

 
 
 
JohnRussell
3  JohnRussell    3 weeks ago

Someone told me that the photo with the article is Ivanka in her Halloween costume. 

_v=63f541570039329

 
 
 
†hε pε⊕pレε'š ƒïšh
3.1  seeder  †hε pε⊕pレε'š ƒïšh  replied to  JohnRussell @3    3 weeks ago

Please, no trans-phobic comments.

 
 
 
It Is ME
3.2  It Is ME  replied to  JohnRussell @3    3 weeks ago
Someone told me that the photo with the article is Ivanka in her Halloween costume. 

Leaker ! jrSmiley_97_smiley_image.gif

 
 
 
†hε pε⊕pレε'š ƒïšh
3.2.1  seeder  †hε pε⊕pレε'š ƒïšh  replied to  It Is ME @3.2    3 weeks ago

Did the whistleblower blowher?

 
 
 
It Is ME
3.2.2  It Is ME  replied to  †hε pε⊕pレε'š ƒïšh @3.2.1    3 weeks ago
Did the whistleblower blowher?

You'll have to ask directly.

 
 
 
†hε pε⊕pレε'š ƒïšh
3.2.3  seeder  †hε pε⊕pレε'š ƒïšh  replied to  It Is ME @3.2.2    3 weeks ago

It would be a coc to do so.....lol

 
 
 
It Is ME
3.2.4  It Is ME  replied to  †hε pε⊕pレε'š ƒïšh @3.2.3    3 weeks ago
It would be a coc to do so.....lol

Wait ….. What ? jrSmiley_10_smiley_image.gif

 
 
 
Just Jim NC TttH
3.3  Just Jim NC TttH  replied to  JohnRussell @3    3 weeks ago

Looks more like Amy Farrah Fowler to me.........................

 
 
 
†hε pε⊕pレε'š ƒïšh
3.3.1  seeder  †hε pε⊕pレε'š ƒïšh  replied to  Just Jim NC TttH @3.3    3 weeks ago
Amy Farrah Fowler

That would be a catch for some of the incels around this place. 

 
 
 
BeastOfTheEast
3.4  BeastOfTheEast  replied to  JohnRussell @3    3 weeks ago
Someone told me that the photo with the article is Ivanka in her Halloween costume. 

That's Chelsea Clinton without a costume.

 
 
 
Goodtime Charlie
3.5  Goodtime Charlie  replied to  JohnRussell @3    3 weeks ago
Someone told me that the photo with the article is Ivanka in her Halloween costume.

You've been misinformed John, this is Ivanka in her Halloween costume.

?u=http%3A%2F%2Fmedia.breitbart.com%2Fme

 
 
 
†hε pε⊕pレε'š ƒïšh
3.5.1  seeder  †hε pε⊕pレε'š ƒïšh  replied to  Goodtime Charlie @3.5    3 weeks ago

I hear her hubby Jared Kushner is going as his wife's lover, Janet Reno.

256

 
 
 
Goodtime Charlie
3.5.2  Goodtime Charlie  replied to  Goodtime Charlie @3.5    3 weeks ago

?u=https%3A%2F%2F02varvara.files.wordpre

 
 
 
Texan1211
3.6  Texan1211  replied to  JohnRussell @3    3 weeks ago
Someone told me that the photo with the article is Ivanka in her Halloween costume. 

Then that begs the question:

Do you believe what some freaking idiot told you, and figured it bears repeating?

 
 
 
Perrie Halpern R.A.
4  Perrie Halpern R.A.    3 weeks ago

OK can I redirect the subject to the content of the article? 

I am on the lesbian side of this. The whole reason women are lesbians is that they don't want to be with men. If a transexual is not fully transitioned, why would a lesbian want to be with them? It is a different story if they are fully transitioned, but if hey still have their naughty bits, they are not a woman. End of story.

 
 
 
†hε pε⊕pレε'š ƒïšh
4.1  seeder  †hε pε⊕pレε'š ƒïšh  replied to  Perrie Halpern R.A. @4    3 weeks ago
I am on the lesbian side of this.

Have you told your husband about this or has he always known?

 
 
 
Perrie Halpern R.A.
4.1.1  Perrie Halpern R.A.  replied to  †hε pε⊕pレε'š ƒïšh @4.1    3 weeks ago

BF, it's a straight guy's dream come true, so of course he knows ;)

That being said, where do you stand?

 
 
 
igknorantzrulz
4.1.2  igknorantzrulz  replied to  Perrie Halpern R.A. @4.1.1    3 weeks ago

That being said, where do you stand?

i prefer the middle

 
 
 
†hε pε⊕pレε'š ƒïšh
4.1.3  seeder  †hε pε⊕pレε'š ƒïšh  replied to  Perrie Halpern R.A. @4.1.1    3 weeks ago
That being said, where do you stand?

I normally stand on two legs but occasionally when I am drunk I have to roll out an extra leg to stand.

 
 
 
r.t..b...
4.1.4  r.t..b...  replied to  igknorantzrulz @4.1.2    3 weeks ago
i prefer the middle

...taint much, but it's a start.

 
 
 
JBB
4.1.5  JBB  replied to  Perrie Halpern R.A. @4.1.1    3 weeks ago

I think that this is just another tempest in a fish bowl. What we have here is one trans athlete's opinion. There is no real evidence of this being anything other than one persons feelings. Lesbians, in general, stand with trans men and women athletes in their struggle for acceptance and inclusion.

In life lesbians and trans people suffer the same prejudices. It remains legal to deny LGTB persons housing and employment in TWENTY SIX of the United States of America. It should also be noted that those TWENTY SIX states account for the vast VAST majority of the land mass of the United States.

At the Pride Celebrations held all across American last Summer gay, lesbian, trans and bi people seemed pretty darned united in their determination to oppose the exact same kinds of bassackwards thinking expressed by this one individual. 

It is not like The Human Rights Campaign came out against trans athlete's right to compete. One trans athlete's personal opinion is not even really newsworthy in my opinion. That is, unless the author intended to stir up a controversy where none really existed. To inflame and agitate those who are not affected at all. I'll tell you this, I am confident that most LGTB athletes could care less what a bunch of olde folks on a conservative website think. 

So, until we see some organized efforts being made by significant numbers of lesbian athletes, of which there are legions, to exclude both trans men and trans women from athletic competitions I am going to have to consider the source. 

 
 
 
Perrie Halpern R.A.
4.1.6  Perrie Halpern R.A.  replied to  JBB @4.1.5    3 weeks ago

jbb,

You have not been keeping up on this issue. Here is another interesting article on the subject:

https://medium.com/@Phaylen/the-fractured-relationship-between-the-trans-and-gay-community-61ba8230128a

https://fairplayforwomen.com/lesbian-erasure/

There is a huge dynamics going on within the community and of course, it's going to diverse and divisive. 

 
 
 
†hε pε⊕pレε'š ƒïšh
4.1.7  seeder  †hε pε⊕pレε'š ƒïšh  replied to  JBB @4.1.5    3 weeks ago

Actually over on reddit, the lesbians are being banned for bigotry, not liking dick.

512

 
 
 
Paula Bartholomew
4.1.8  Paula Bartholomew  replied to  Perrie Halpern R.A. @4.1.1    3 weeks ago

Next to the tartar sauce.

 
 
 
Perrie Halpern R.A.
4.1.9  Perrie Halpern R.A.  replied to  Paula Bartholomew @4.1.8    3 weeks ago

LOL... good one!

 
 
 
Paula Bartholomew
4.1.10  Paula Bartholomew  replied to  Perrie Halpern R.A. @4.1.9    3 weeks ago

jrSmiley_9_smiley_image.gif

 
 
 
igknorantzrulz
4.2  igknorantzrulz  replied to  Perrie Halpern R.A. @4    3 weeks ago

lesbian porn makes me happy,

just not gay

but,

i must confess, i'm constantly obsessed with getting "in to" a womans body, as 

the body is the evidence and the body of evidence, makes me think my head is in the right place, but like real estate that i really state about things i've thought about, or that my absent minded mind has misplaced as to of the

Location, location, location

on another location and time, does anyone else think it might be possibly unfair, that as a former man, wouldn't she have , as is usually the norm, that a male , has certain attributes, that mght possibly have given her a physical advantage.

Paul Hogan had an interesting manner in which to gender test, grab em by the crotch, and determine whether or not one is a Shelia !   Actually , there is a pol, that uses that method as well, or so i heard.
 
 
 
†hε pε⊕pレε'š ƒïšh
4.2.1  seeder  †hε pε⊕pレε'š ƒïšh  replied to  igknorantzrulz @4.2    3 weeks ago

Tone Loc said:

So I took her to my crib, and everything went well as planned
But when she got undressed, it was a big old mess, Sheena was a man
So I threw him out, I don't fool around with no Oscar Meyer wiener
You must be sure that the girl is pure for the Funky Cold Medina
 
 
 
arkpdx
4.3  arkpdx  replied to  Perrie Halpern R.A. @4    3 weeks ago

" It is a different story if they are fully transitioned, but if hey still have their naughty bits, they are not a woman. "

They are not women after"transition" surgery either. 

 
 
 
Tacos!
5  Tacos!    3 weeks ago

It doesn't make a lot of sense to say that sexual preference is not something you can choose and then turn around and try to talk people into choosing a sexual preference.

 
 
 
Perrie Halpern R.A.
5.1  Perrie Halpern R.A.  replied to  Tacos! @5    3 weeks ago

I would have to agree with you about this Tacos, and I think that is where the lesbian community is at.

 
 
 
KDMichigan
6  KDMichigan    3 weeks ago

I can understand why some lesbians are transphobic when their lesbian partners tell them they prefer the real meat stick to the fake one.

 
 
 
†hε pε⊕pレε'š ƒïšh
6.1  seeder  †hε pε⊕pレε'š ƒïšh  replied to  KDMichigan @6    3 weeks ago

There is always one in the relationship that liked to ride a mule in the past and the other always suspects they may one day leave them for it.

It's also why lesbian relationships have the highest incidents of domestic violence over other sexual orientation groups. 

The jealous one is always giving them a black eye over cock desire.

 
 
 
KDMichigan
6.1.1  KDMichigan  replied to  †hε pε⊕pレε'š ƒïšh @6.1    3 weeks ago
The jealous one is always giving them a black eye over cock desire.

There is a term for that, it's called Lesbian Battering. That is what happens when you confess that you prefer the real mule to the one it has been trying to please you with.

According to Nomi Porat, an abuse-prevention expert, the reason is poor limit-setting: "An issue common to women, particularly battered women, is the fear of demanding physical and emotional boundaries. In part, battered lesbians are afraid their lovers will leave or become more violent if any limitations are set in the relationship."

A nearly impenetrable double wall serves to keep lesbian battering tucked away in the proverbial closet. The first wall is the stigmatization invoked by lesbians themselves who believe in a sort of same-sex utopia, the feminist belief that maintains female-female relationships are inherently more peaceful, gentle, and "pure," compared to male-female relationships.

http://www.renewamerica.com/columns/roberts/100830
 
 
 
Perrie Halpern R.A.
6.1.2  Perrie Halpern R.A.  replied to  KDMichigan @6.1.1    3 weeks ago

Oh dear god, I'm a straight woman and even I know that is not the issue. 

The issue is that if you are a lesbian you want a woman. Plain and simple. 

If they really wanted a guys naughty bits, they would be with guys. Hence why they are lesbians. They really don't want it. 

You guys get too much of your information from porn and nutty rightwing sites like RenewAmerica. As if they would know anything about the gay community other than negative stories like this. 

 
 
 
†hε pε⊕pレε'š ƒïšh
6.1.3  seeder  †hε pε⊕pレε'š ƒïšh  replied to  Perrie Halpern R.A. @6.1.2    3 weeks ago

Pleather isn't the same as leather.

 
 
 
KDMichigan
6.1.4  KDMichigan  replied to  Perrie Halpern R.A. @6.1.2    3 weeks ago
nutty rightwing sites like RenewAmerica.

Might I suggest some educational reading on Lesbian Battering filled with testimonials instead of attacking my source?

https://www.amazon.com/Naming-Violence-Speaking-Lesbian-Battering/dp/0931188423

Essays tell the stories of battered lesbians and discuss community organizing activities, support groups, and the possible causes of this form of domestic violence

 
 
 
KDMichigan
6.1.5  KDMichigan  replied to  Perrie Halpern R.A. @6.1.2    3 weeks ago
As if they would know anything about the gay community other than negative stories like this. 

Vallerie Coleman wrote a paper on Lesbian Battering, You are more likely to be battered in a Lesbian relationship than any other. 77% of woman in a Lesbian relationship were battered.

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/15503359_Lesbian_Battering_The_Relationship_Between_Personality_and_the_Perpetration_of_Violence

So No this isn't a porn site or a "nutty" rightwing site. 

256

 
 
 
Perrie Halpern R.A.
6.1.6  Perrie Halpern R.A.  replied to  KDMichigan @6.1.4    3 weeks ago

KD,

You chose the material not me. Your first article was from a source who probably doesn't give a damn about the lesbian community other than to judge them. 

The second source is probably more balanced.

And anyway, this is not about abuse. There is enough physcial abuse to go around in any sexuality so it is not fair to paint lesbians as particularly bad. This is about how ridiculous things have gotten, that lesbians are now bigots because they don't want trans women.  

 
 
 
†hε pε⊕pレε'š ƒïšh
6.1.7  seeder  †hε pε⊕pレε'š ƒïšh  replied to  Perrie Halpern R.A. @6.1.6    3 weeks ago

Let's not debate sources, the seed has a topic.

Don't make me get out my swatter!

 
 
 
Perrie Halpern R.A.
6.1.8  Perrie Halpern R.A.  replied to  †hε pε⊕pレε'š ƒïšh @6.1.7    3 weeks ago

Yes, and the topic isn't lesbian battery or Hillary or any of the other off topic comments made here without admonishment. 

 
 
 
†hε pε⊕pレε'š ƒïšh
6.1.9  seeder  †hε pε⊕pレε'š ƒïšh  replied to  Perrie Halpern R.A. @6.1.8    3 weeks ago

We have a 1022 in progress, RA going rogue...people's fish is down, i repeat fish down.

 
 
 
Perrie Halpern R.A.
6.1.10  Perrie Halpern R.A.  replied to  †hε pε⊕pレε'š ƒïšh @6.1.9    3 weeks ago

No RA gets what is going on here.

 
 
 
†hε pε⊕pレε'š ƒïšh
6.1.11  seeder  †hε pε⊕pレε'š ƒïšh  replied to  Perrie Halpern R.A. @6.1.10    3 weeks ago

Vast People's Fish conspiracy!

384

 
 
 
Just Jim NC TttH
7  Just Jim NC TttH    3 weeks ago

Off topic but, it's Wednesday another 95 degree day here in North Carolina with not a drop of rain in sight. Soooo, that being the case, today must be referred to as dry hump day.

Gotta run.

jrSmiley_34_smiley_image.gifjrSmiley_9_smiley_image.gif  

 
 
 
Wheel
8  Wheel    3 weeks ago

I'm curious.

Are any accusations or name calling going on against straight women who don't want to date lesbian transvestites? Or who don't want to date male transvestites?

What happened to that thing where people are allowed to date, or not to date, whoever they want without having to give a reason? And without it being anyone else's business? Bodily autonomy, I think it's called.

If a person doesn't want to date another person because they have bad breathe, or because they chew with their mouth open, or because they are really short, or really tall, or fat, or bald, or dumb is there a special acronym for them? Of if they don't want to date someone without any specific reason?

Are these women kind of the transvestite version of incels?  If so, why? If not, why not?

 
 
 
Perrie Halpern R.A.
8.1  Perrie Halpern R.A.  replied to  Wheel @8    3 weeks ago

I can't disagree with anything you have said here Wheel. I think we are free to date or not date whoever we please. And it isn't anyone's business. 

Are these women kind of the transvestite version of incels?  If so, why? If not, why not?

Excellent question. In a way, I think they are, since they feel they have the right to tell lesbians how to live. That's just not cool. 

 
 
 
Wheel
8.1.1  Wheel  replied to  Perrie Halpern R.A. @8.1    3 weeks ago
Excellent question. In a way, I think they are, since they feel they have the right to tell lesbians how to live.

I agree.

"I get to decide my preferred sexuality and what sexual partners I agree to have sex with for myself." Yes, no doubt about it.

"I get to judge you for your preferred sexuality and choosing the sexual partners that you agree to have sex with." No, just no.

 
 
 
zuksam
8.2  zuksam  replied to  Wheel @8    3 weeks ago

I think most people who identify with a certain group do so for a reason and are not about to be bullied into dating outside their preferences. What percent of straight Men do you think would be willing to date a Transvestite? I think most people wouldn't consider a Man as "Straight" if he knowingly dated a Transvestite. What percent of straight Women do you think would knowingly date a Man who also dates Transvestites?

 
 
 
Wheel
8.2.1  Wheel  replied to  zuksam @8.2    3 weeks ago

What percent of straight Men do you think would be willing to date a Transvestite?

During my time in the Navy I must have heard a 100 stories about Navy guys unwittingly dating transvestites. Especially when in the Philippines. Usually, it ended poorly.  I would advise transvestites to let it be known, right from the start, what the situation is  It's not the kind of surprise that anyone wants. 

I think most people wouldn't consider a Man as "Straight" if he knowingly dated a Transvestite.

As long as both parties know the situation from the start, more power to them.

 
 
 
katrix
8.2.2  katrix  replied to  Wheel @8.2.1    3 weeks ago

Hi Wheel!

Totally agreed. I still don't think I would date a trans man. I can respect a person's gender identity, but I'd still feel like I was dating a woman. Other people may not care, and that's fine with me.

Everyone should be able to date whoever they feel comfortable with, and not expect people to date them if the other person isn't comfortable.

 
 
 
sandy-2021492
8.3  sandy-2021492  replied to  Wheel @8    3 weeks ago

There is unfortunately some conflict between some transsexuals and some cis-women to whom they refer as TERFs (trans-exclusionary radical feminists).  Some feminists don't consider trans women to be women, and some trans women believe that any exclusion of them from traditionally female things such as Pap smears and women's sports is unjustified discrimination.  Trans women who have a problem with "TERFs" are generally the same ones who think lesbians should be open to dating trans women.  Small minorities in each group have polarized to the point of deathwishing each other at trans or feminist rallies.

Frankly, it's become a bit ridiculous.  Both sides have some points to their arguments, IMO, but neither side wants to admit that the other might be right.

There is no reason that any person's dating decisions should be subject to the decisions of others who are uninvolved, period.

 
 
 
CB
8.3.1  CB   replied to  sandy-2021492 @8.3    3 weeks ago
Trans women who have a problem with "TERFs" are generally the same ones who think lesbians should be open to dating trans women.  Small minorities in each group have polarized to the point of deathwishing each other at trans or feminist rallies.

This is a hard-saying. Already with the acronyms, trans-women really? Deathwishing? What is going on here?

 
 
 
sandy-2021492
8.3.2  sandy-2021492  replied to  CB @8.3.1    3 weeks ago
What is going on here?

People can't live and let live, and some folks can't accept medical realities - I have to say, trans women demanding Pap smears makes me roll my eyes pretty hard.

Now that each group is pissed at a small subset of the other, they extend their anger to include the entire group (feminists and/or lesbians and transgender people as a whole), assume that each is trying to deny the other rights, and there you have it.  You end up with two groups who have always been oppressed by society in general, doing their damnedest to oppress each other.

 
 
 
Perrie Halpern R.A.
8.3.3  Perrie Halpern R.A.  replied to  sandy-2021492 @8.3.2    3 weeks ago
You end up with two groups who have always been oppressed by society in general, doing their damnedest to oppress each other.

This is what you call unforeseen outcomes. Feminist are realizing that trans women will dominate women's sports, etc, and thus seeing genetic women falling by the wayside. 

With lesbians, it's just a matter of attraction. You can't force someone to be attracted to another person... any person for that matter. Calling them out for not being attracted is wrong. 

 
 
 
sandy-2021492
8.3.4  sandy-2021492  replied to  Perrie Halpern R.A. @8.3.3    3 weeks ago

Agreed on both points.

 
 
 
CB
8.3.5  CB   replied to  Perrie Halpern R.A. @8.3.3    3 weeks ago

Additionally, we're been sharing among ourselves across many discussions this summer how much sexual attraction involves spiritual connection, or if that is a too strong (or divisive) a word, lets go with the deepest meanings which bond two (or more) people to a desire to explore life together.

I am shocked and appalled even to learn that some trans-women want to displace cisgender (born) women and 'rule' over them. This can not be what true diversity is about! It will cause the proper definition of the word: resentment.

 
 
 
Wheel
8.3.6  Wheel  replied to  sandy-2021492 @8.3    3 weeks ago
trans women believe that any exclusion of them from traditionally female things such as Pap smears and women's sports is unjustified discrimination. 

Pap smears?! Isn't that a literal example of something that would perfectly illustrate the old country saying, "That's as useless as tits on a boar hog?"

Do they want D&C's too?  How would that even be administered? Rectally, I suppose.

As far as XY competing with XX in sports, that's just idiotic. If a person chooses to be called Janet instead of John, cool.  If that person wants to wear dresses and gowns instead of suits and ties, or in addition to, have at it, buy American, look for the Union label. If that person has a preferred set of pronouns, just let me know, pronouns are flexible and so am I. If that person wants to date someone of any gender or no fixed gender, it's none of my business, I wish the 2...or 3 or whatever of you good luck. But, whatever the person feels most comfortable being addressed as, or being dressed as, XY chromosomes give certain, very specific physical advantages that are widely recognized, long tested, and undeniable.  Including greater bone length and density, greater muscle mass and density, physical advantages of speed and strength that simply can't be denied.

In short, if you need a jock to play sports, then stick to playing against other jock wearers.

 
 
 
sandy-2021492
8.3.7  sandy-2021492  replied to  Wheel @8.3.6    3 weeks ago

I have read articles about trans women in England objecting to the fact that the NHS won't pay for their Pap smears.  They don't have cervices and therefore don't need Pap smears.  That doesn't make them any less women. I no longer have a cervix, and I'm still a woman.

And agreed about trans women in women's sports.  I played baseball with boys, and did fine. I can still throw and hit as well as some men.  But at an elite level, men have a distinct advantage in most sports.

I bet very few trans women want to compete on the balance beam in gymnastics.   Their physiology would be a disadvantage there.

 
 
 
CB
9  CB     3 weeks ago
YouTuber Riley J. Dennis made a video to explain this issue. She asks “Would you date a trans person? Honestly? I’ll give you a second to think about it. Ok? Got your answer? Well if you said “no,” I’m sorry, but that’s pretty discriminatory. Now, don’t get me wrong, I’m not saying you’re a horrible person who hates trans people. There was probably a time in my life when I would have said I wouldn’t date a trans person. But since then I’ve thought critically about it and I’ve changed my mind.” The idea here is that if a lesbian just thinks about it hard enough, and examines her internal biases, then she will find that there’s no logical reason she shouldn’t be attracted to trans people.

Why is it necessary to date "on demand"? Isn't this the whole point of gaining a system where one can live one's own truth? Without cordoning others to live in one's selfish lie state?

 
 
 
Perrie Halpern R.A.
9.1  Perrie Halpern R.A.  replied to  CB @9    3 weeks ago
Why is it necessary to date "on demand"? Isn't this the whole point of gaining a system where one can live one's own truth? Without cordoning others to live in one's selfish lie state?

Got me CB. It's gotten to a point where I think even the word "truth" is fungible. 

That being said, although I am a live and let live person, I think that these transvestites are being very judgy. 

 
 
 
CB
9.1.1  CB   replied to  Perrie Halpern R.A. @9.1    3 weeks ago

As I read this article and watched the video, I am having a bit of time grasping exactly what these transgender 'reps' chief complaint is:

  1. Is it they are not accepted as full-fledged members of the LGBTQ community?
  2. Is it they do not want to fully transition to woman 'status'?
  3. Is it some of them want to be 'bi-sexed' (a made up word) appearing?
  4. Is it some want to become lesbian to sleep with other lesbian women; rather than become romantically involved with men?
  5. Lastly, have some of these transfolks figured out that it possible to live in the "in-between" world and like it so?

What's the one point that is driving this article? And oh yes, I read the article and all the comments too.

Two more observation. In the most diverse country whereever it may appear on Earth, many former outcasts (and some new types) will redefine norms and associated truths. We will pass away eventually accepting all that we can and the "babies" will have to incorporate further diversity in time.

Yes, I can see an imposition being put forward in Riley's argument. She seems to be orienting the public to consider her in a different perspective. I get that part-its survival. It's wanting to be accepted by all. However, we can not persuade people to ignore their appetites to taste our own.

Acceptance is the thing. Let it be its own reward. I'll say.

I have much to say on this subject. I'll see how the article proceeds.

 
 
 
Perrie Halpern R.A.
9.1.2  Perrie Halpern R.A.  replied to  CB @9.1.1    3 weeks ago
  • Is it they are not accepted as full-fledged members of the LGBTQ community?

Yes.

  • Is it they do not want to fully transition to woman 'status'?

Yes, and for many women and lesbians this is a huge issue. For feminist, these transexual women have never lead a woman's life. They can only guess at what iti is like to be a woman. Also, they are advantages over biolgoical women. For lesbians, the point of being lesbian is that you are not attracted to men, and having a penis is being a man, even to a straight woman. I don't begrudge their choice, but with all choices, there comes consequences.

  • Is it some of them want to be 'bi-sexed' (a made up word) appearing?

Not sure what you mean.

  • Is it some want to become lesbian to sleep with other lesbian women; rather than become romantically involved with men?

I think that if they have not fully transitioned, most lesbians and men wouldn't accept it. We are human.  We need to be attracted to both mind and body. This is decided by the individual and it is natural and really can't be forced.

  • Lastly, have some of these transfolks figured out that it possible to live in the "in-between" world and like it so?
IDK. From this article it seems that they want EVERYONE to accept where they are, and you can't force that. On the other hand, I am sure if they looked, they could find a community of like minded people, both trans and non trans and have a full life. The important thing is that they are not discriminated in other aspects of their lives, and I am not sure that is what is being addressed here. 

 
 
 
CB
9.1.3  CB   replied to  Perrie Halpern R.A. @9.1.2    3 weeks ago
  • Is it some of them want to be 'bi-sexed' (a made up word) appearing?
Not sure what you mean.

Even as a Christian, I am sophisticated enough (and want to stay curious enough to learn) to know that some trans-persons are indulging themselves in playing around with transition 'states.' For instance. There is the woman (appearing as a bearded man on Oprah) who once sensationalized herself as "the first pregnant man." Of course, nothing could have been farther from the truth. Then, there is this trend of transitioning men appearing naked with male personas and functioning vaginas engaging in sexploitation movies (Yes, I have seen it with my own two eyes).

These people seem to be 'formulating' a new genre: "Bi-sexed" (I made it up) or "In-betweens."

  • Is it some want to become lesbian to sleep with other lesbian women; rather than become romantically involved with men?

On this one. Many years ago, I became aware of men who are heavily attracted to lesbian sex. That is, these men have a fetish for videos of two women with no males images representing themselves in the frames. At the time I thought how curious and odd that is—seeing that the men watching are well, males. Now science inadvertently may have provided a means (of sorts) for these men to 'explore' gender line-crossing. Whereas, a male can transition to become a woman in order to indulge lesbian fantasies or a full-fledged spiritual connection. I am wondering is this is what is occurring in some cases in this community (above).

I think that if they have not fully transitioned, most lesbians and men wouldn't accept it. We are human.  We need to be attracted to both mind and body. This is decided by the individual and it is natural and really can't be forced.

Let me be clear at this point. I have seen startled by the fact that there are women passing as men which may cross my path in male-only facilities like public bathrooms. At first, I found the thought repulsive, then 'frightful,' then I felt exposed and compromised. Worse  of all, when I saw the muscle mass on some of these fully transitioned men - I wondered. . . are they fooling around with other gay men unbeknown? Finally, I wondered about the in-betweens. Even going so far as to imagine if they have the best of both worlds? That being a male physique and female sex organs. It can be quite. . .a remarkable and intriguing relationship???

  • Lastly, have some of these transfolks figured out that it possible to live in the "in-between" world and like it so?

I agree with your remarks on this. Diversity requires that people locate and stay on the 'happy median' between themselves without causing undue stresses, shame, or violence. This notion that it is a "winner take all" proposition is disturbing and dangerous—to trangender people the most!

 
 
 
†hε pε⊕pレε'š ƒïšh
10  seeder  †hε pε⊕pレε'š ƒïšh    3 weeks ago

All the women are being kicked out of the feminist movement. Trannies are replacing women's sports and if you resist you are a transphobic bigot.

In another year or two GBTQ will stand alone and the Lesbians will be listed by the SPLC as a bigoted anti trans hate group.

 
 
Loading...
Loading...

Who is online




loki12
dave-2693993
Paula Bartholomew
Dignitatem Societatis


93 visitors