ONLY 40 PERCENT OF REPUBLICANS BELIEVE TRUMP MENTIONED BIDEN IN UKRAINE CALL, DESPITE TRUMP ADMITTING HE DID: POLL

  
Via:  john-russell  •  3 weeks ago  •  106 comments

ONLY 40 PERCENT OF REPUBLICANS BELIEVE TRUMP MENTIONED BIDEN IN UKRAINE CALL, DESPITE TRUMP ADMITTING HE DID: POLL
"At the very least, it is clear from the readout that Trump discussed investigating Biden during the call. Even though this information was released by the White House itself, more than one quarter of Republicans still say Trump probably didn't make any mention of it,"

S E E D E D   C O N T E N T


In a   poll   released Tuesday by Monmouth University, just four in 10 self-identified Republicans said they believe that President Donald Trump discussed political rival former Vice President Joe Biden during his phone call with Ukrainian president Volodymyr Zelensky on July 25.

The 40 percent of Republicans compares to 85 percent of Democrats and 61 percent of independents surveyed who said that Trump "probably did" mention the idea of investigating the Biden family.

"At the very least, it is clear from the readout that Trump discussed investigating Biden during the call. Even though this information was released by the White House itself, more than one quarter of Republicans still say Trump probably didn't make any mention of it," the press release quoted Patrick Murray, director of the Monmouth University Polling Institute as saying.

The poll was conducted by telephone, surveying 1,161 adults across the United States. The Monmouth University Polling Institute has stated that the results have a margin of error of 2.9 percentage points. The calls took place  on September 23-29, as the Ukraine whistleblower story developed and the impeachment inquiry began. Monmouth University's press release announcing the poll results did not report day-by-day responses during the week-long window, which means that some people may have answered the survey prior to the release of the transcript, while others may have answered afterwards.















Three days before the White House released the transcript, Trump said openly that he discussed the investigation of the Biden family with Zelensky. Trump has continued to claim that there was nothing wrong with the conversation.








"There's a lot of talk about Biden's son, that Biden stopped the prosecution and a lot of people want to find out about that so whatever you can do with the Attorney General would be great," said Trump told Zelensky during the call.

According to the Monmouth University poll, overall, more than six out of ten adults said that it was wrong for a U.S. president to make the type of request to a foreign leader Trump did, but only three out of ten Republicans agreed with that statement.

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JohnRussell
1  seeder  JohnRussell    3 weeks ago

At this rate of stupidity, America may not survive. 

 
 
 
Greg Jones
1.1  Greg Jones  replied to  JohnRussell @1    3 weeks ago

Like most Republicans, I believe, according to the transcript, he didn't say or do anything wrong or illegal.

Since Biden wants to be president of the United States, it would seem appropriate that everything he has said and done since puberty, including drunken college escapades, be investigated to the fullest extent possible. After all, if it's fair to investigate Trump, anyone who wants to replace him should go through the same, in depth scrutiny. Don't you agree?

 
 
 
Dulay
1.1.1  Dulay  replied to  Greg Jones @1.1    3 weeks ago
Like most Republicans, I believe, according to the transcript, he didn't say or do anything wrong or illegal.

The question is:

Do you think Donald Trump probably did or probably did not mention the possibility of an investigation into the Biden family during his conversation with the Ukrainian president?

Answer? 

Since Biden wants to be president of the United States, it would seem appropriate that everything he has said and done since puberty, including drunken college escapades, be investigated to the fullest extent possible.

Then you'd have no issue with Trump's behavior since puberty be investigate too. 

How about everything he has done since Jan. 20, 2018? 

After all, if it's fair to investigate Trump, anyone who wants to replace him should go through the same, in depth scrutiny. Don't you agree?

Trump hasn't gone through said scrutiny. 

But hey, just like Trump, Biden should just call it a witch hunt and a hoax and you'll give him the same pass you give Trump right? 

 
 
 
Split Personality
1.1.2  Split Personality  replied to  Greg Jones @1.1    3 weeks ago
Like most Republicans, I believe, according to the transcript, he didn't say or do anything wrong or illegal.

GJ, try this exercise.  Open up the "official transcript", noting that the call was from 9:03 to 9:33AM on 7/25/2019.

https://www.scribd.com/document/427409969/Official-Transcript#download&from_embed

Now set your own timer and read the entire transcript out loud, or in your head, if you must.

It takes most people in a normal speaking voice between 10 and 12 minutes to read the "official transcript".

So what do you suppose is going on during the other 18 to 20 minutes of the "official transcript" that is apparently "missing"?

Just saying...

 
 
 
XDm9mm
1.1.3  XDm9mm  replied to  Dulay @1.1.1    3 weeks ago
Do you think Donald Trump probably did or probably did not mention the possibility of an investigation into the Biden family during his conversation with the Ukrainian president? Answer? 

Yes he did.  He was polite and had a conversation about the situation after the President of Ukraine, Volodymyr Zelensky, brought the situation up.  Should he have said, I don't want to discuss the potential criminality of a political opponent.

 
 
 
XDm9mm
1.1.4  XDm9mm  replied to  Split Personality @1.1.2    3 weeks ago
Now set your own timer and read the entire transcript out loud, or in your head, if you must.

Oh please SP...

Reading something and having a conversation are two entirely different situations.   Further, I'm fairly sure that there were some points, if not the entire conversation where translators were being used...  on BOTH sides.

 
 
 
Dulay
1.1.5  Dulay  replied to  XDm9mm @1.1.3    3 weeks ago
Yes he did.  He was polite and had a conversation about the situation after the President of Ukraine, Volodymyr Zelensky, brought the situation up. 

Bullshit. Trump brought Biden up, NOT Zelensky. 

Should he have said, I don't want to discuss the potential criminality of a political opponent.

Was that a question? Ridiculous. 

 
 
 
Dulay
1.1.6  Dulay  replied to  XDm9mm @1.1.4    3 weeks ago

Or the time difference could be found in the multiple times where the Memo has …in it. 

 
 
 
Tessylo
1.1.7  Tessylo  replied to  Split Personality @1.1.2    3 weeks ago

The Watergate tapes all over again

 
 
 
Tessylo
1.1.8  Tessylo  replied to  XDm9mm @1.1.4    3 weeks ago

There were no translators being used

I don't believe your 'fairly sure' comment holds any weight

 
 
 
Split Personality
1.1.9  Split Personality  replied to  XDm9mm @1.1.4    3 weeks ago

No translators necessary, Zelensky speaks English.

15 minutes of dead air time in a 30 minute conversation?

Really?  Must be that diplomatic speak...

 
 
 
Dulay
1.1.10  Dulay  replied to  XDm9mm @1.1.4    3 weeks ago

That's an amazing posit XD. I've watched quit a few long speeches @ the UN and can't remember one translation that doubled the length of the speech. 5 seconds maybe. 

So if we add 5 seconds to each paragraph, were still at most 15 minutes.

 
 
 
XDm9mm
1.1.11  XDm9mm  replied to  Dulay @1.1.10    3 weeks ago
That's an amazing posit XD. I've watched quit a few long speeches @ the UN and can't remember one translation that doubled the length of the speech. 5 seconds maybe

Good for you.  I'm happy you have enough time in your day to waste so much watching UN speeches.

 
 
 
Dulay
1.1.12  Dulay  replied to  XDm9mm @1.1.11    3 weeks ago
Good for you.  I'm happy you have enough time in your day to waste so much watching UN speeches.

It's unfortunate that you had plenty of time to post a personal comment but none for the topic. 

 
 
 
Paula Bartholomew
1.1.13  Paula Bartholomew  replied to  XDm9mm @1.1.3    3 weeks ago

He just should have said "I can't talk about a current opponent." and left it at that.

 
 
 
Krishna
1.1.14  Krishna  replied to  Dulay @1.1.1    3 weeks ago
Since Biden wants to be president of the United States, it would seem appropriate that everything he has said and done since puberty, including drunken college escapades, be investigated to the fullest extent possible.
Then you'd have no issue with Trump's behavior since puberty be investigate too. 

1, No-- BUT HILLLARY!

2. No-- only investigate Biden, not Trump.

3. Because "Executive Privilege'!  

4. Its in the Constitution! Or-- maybe its not. Or something.

5. But still-- the progressives are "out to get this president! I know its true I heard it on Faux News.

 
 
 
Krishna
1.1.15  Krishna  replied to  Dulay @1.1.1    3 weeks ago
But hey, just like Trump, Biden should just call it a witch hunt and a hoax and you'll give him the same pass you give Trump right? 

Actually I hope he does!

(It might actually be an effective technique...)

 
 
 
Paula Bartholomew
1.2  Paula Bartholomew  replied to  JohnRussell @1    3 weeks ago

Trump had the nerve to call the Bidens stone cold crooks.  Talk about kettle/pot....yugly.

 
 
 
squiggy
1.3  squiggy  replied to  JohnRussell @1    3 weeks ago

 “...just four in 10 self-identified Republicans...”

Just how - do they dial self-identified Republicans? Where is that registry? Why base the results on a week’s calls during a developing story? 

 
 
 
squiggy
1.4  squiggy  replied to  JohnRussell @1    3 weeks ago

“...more than six out of ten adults said that it was wrong ... but only three out of ten Republicans agreed with that statement.“

Can they skew apples v rocks any worse than that?

 
 
 
Krishna
1.4.1  Krishna  replied to  squiggy @1.4    3 weeks ago
Can they skew apples v rocks any worse than that?

Is it colder in the winter or in the mountainsI

 
 
 
XDm9mm
2  XDm9mm    3 weeks ago

Polls are still useless JR, regardless of how much faith and hope you put in them.

If polls were correct, we would be saying Madame President instead of Mr. President.

Every poll can generate the predetermined and desired outcome of the polling entity simply by the verbiage used when asking that question(s).

 
 
 
JohnRussell
2.1  seeder  JohnRussell  replied to  XDm9mm @2    3 weeks ago

You know whats useless? People who constantly say "polls are useless". 

 
 
 
XDm9mm
2.1.1  XDm9mm  replied to  JohnRussell @2.1    3 weeks ago
You know whats useless? People who constantly say "polls are useless". 

Do you know what's even more useless?  People who constantly post polls as if they had any relevance to reality.

 
 
 
Paula Bartholomew
2.1.2  Paula Bartholomew  replied to  XDm9mm @2.1.1    3 weeks ago

And if a poll painted Trump in a completely positive light jrSmiley_10_smiley_image.gif would you call that poll useless also?

 
 
 
Ronin2
2.1.3  Ronin2  replied to  Paula Bartholomew @2.1.2    3 weeks ago

JR sure as hell would.

All polls are BS. They are made to make whoever paid for the poll happy, period. 

 
 
 
Paula Bartholomew
2.1.4  Paula Bartholomew  replied to  Ronin2 @2.1.3    3 weeks ago

The question was for a Trump supporter.  They toast withTrump's Kool Aid when it is positive and reach for Jones's when it is not.

 
 
 
XDm9mm
2.1.5  XDm9mm  replied to  Paula Bartholomew @2.1.2    3 weeks ago
And if a poll painted Trump in a completely positive light would you call that poll useless also?

Only the elements of the polls Trump haters use are referenced when they're miraculously overlooked, as I did below.   I've always said polls are useless and represent a particular point in time and will elicit the predetermined response the pollster wants to present to the person/organization paying for the poll.

 
 
 
Don Overton
2.1.6  Don Overton  replied to  JohnRussell @2.1    3 weeks ago

Amen

 
 
 
Don Overton
2.1.7  Don Overton  replied to  XDm9mm @2.1.1    3 weeks ago

[Removed]

 
 
 
Krishna
2.1.8  Krishna  replied to  JohnRussell @2.1    3 weeks ago
You know whats useless? People who constantly say "polls are useless". 

We should really take a poll on that-- the question could be:

Are polls useless-- Yes or No?

Then tabulate the data (whatever that means) and post it on NT!

 
 
 
Tacos!
3  Tacos!    3 weeks ago

It's not a very useful question because according to the same poll, barely half (52%) of Republicans say they have heard a lot about the story. Democrats, by the way, were only a little better at 62%. That means a huge percentage of people answering the question - be they Republican or Democrat -  were just guessing.

 
 
 
It Is ME
3.1  It Is ME  replied to  Tacos! @3    3 weeks ago
were just guessing.

As happens in MOST polls ! jrSmiley_25_smiley_image.gif

Polling: "Do you think Trump should be "Impeached" ?

Respondent: "Yes"

Part left out:

Polling: "Why"

Respondent: "I don't know" …… "Because he just should be" ?

 
 
 
Krishna
3.1.1  Krishna  replied to  It Is ME @3.1    3 weeks ago

Polling: "Do you think Trump should be "Impeached" ?

Respondent: "Yes"

Part left out:

Polling: "Why"

Respondent: "I don't know" …… "Because he just should be" ?

Of course other people might answer it like this:

Polling: "Do you think Trump should be "Impeached" ?

Respondent: "No"

Part left out:

Polling: "Why"

Respondent: "I don't know" …… "Because he just should not be" ...?

 
 
 
It Is ME
3.1.2  It Is ME  replied to  Krishna @3.1.1    3 weeks ago

That was Great ! jrSmiley_13_smiley_image.gif

 
 
 
XDm9mm
4  XDm9mm    3 weeks ago

Hot shit batman....  Why was this little tidbit of information lacking in the article posted?

Do you think President Trump should be impeached and compelled to leave the
Presidency, or not?

 TREND:

Sept.   2019 

Yes, should 44%
No, should not 52%
(VOL) Don’t know 5% 6% 6% 5% 4% 5% 5% 4% 6%

JR...   do YOU have an explanation for that little bit of missing information?

 
 
 
MrFrost
4.1  MrFrost  replied to  XDm9mm @4    3 weeks ago

It's a fair point. 57% of the American public didn't want Clinton impeached, and we know how that worked out. My point being that public opinion regarding impeachment is pointless since the public doesn't get to vote. 

Do I think trump will be impeached? Probably. Removed from office? I doubt it. I would much rather see him resign and spare the nation the impeachment hearings. 

You know me, I am no fan of trump, but impeachment is really hard on the nation as a whole. 

 
 
 
XDm9mm
4.1.1  XDm9mm  replied to  MrFrost @4.1    3 weeks ago
Do I think trump will be impeached? Probably. Removed from office? I doubt it.

Impeached?  Definitely.   Hell, the Democrats have been wanting to do that before he even took the oath of office.

Removed from office?  Definitely NOT.  He'll beat the Democrats back into that sewer they crawled out of and walk out of office in January 2025 when his replacement is sworn in.

Regardless of what the left believes, there still is no there there.   How many times have they tried playing the same hand and how many times have they discovered that a losing hand is and always will be a losing hand.  Eventually they might come to realize that doing the same thing over and over again is only going to end with the same result....  it ain't going to change no matter how much they wish it to.

 
 
 
Ozzwald
4.1.2  Ozzwald  replied to  MrFrost @4.1    3 weeks ago
It's a fair point. 57% of the American public didn't want Clinton impeached, and we know how that worked out.

And remember, only 18% favored impeachment of Nixon at the start as well.

 
 
 
r.t..b...
5  r.t..b...    3 weeks ago

If I were benevolent dictator (and internal polling shows me comfortably ahead), I would outlaw political polling altogether. It would make every candidate, in every race, for any seat, accountable to their constituency by actually having to meet them in face-to-face settings rather than rely on nebulous data or self-serving rallies. While I'm at it, PACS and Citizen United are hereby outlawed as well. And one more thing, no campaigning for the general election until July 5th of the election year (so we can enjoy celebrating our Liberty without having to be reminded of the coming debacle). Your support is appreciated and I endorse this message...Cabinet seats available.

 
 
 
Trout Giggles
5.1  Trout Giggles  replied to  r.t..b... @5    3 weeks ago

You have my vote for benevolent dictator

 
 
 
bbl-1
6  bbl-1    3 weeks ago

No biggie with the 40% of GOPERS.  Hell, they believe the Mexican check is in the mail.  And of course, 'the stable genius' was sent by gawd.

 
 
 
Tessylo
6.1  Tessylo  replied to  bbl-1 @6    3 weeks ago

EDqZamUU8AAH4W2?format=jpg&name=small

 
 
 
It Is ME
7  It Is ME    3 weeks ago

These polls are really, really, REALLY "STUPID". jrSmiley_98_smiley_image.gif

I've always wondered the "WHY" people say what they say, not just that they say it !

Why is that never published in the Media/Polling's ?

That might just be too "Telling" I suppose. jrSmiley_89_smiley_image.gif

 
 
 
MrFrost
8  MrFrost    3 weeks ago

512

The point being that even when shown absolute facts, many republicans just refuse to believe them. 

Trump admitted he asked the Ukraine to get dirt on Biden and his call logs back that up. That is illegal, that is a fact. 

 
 
 
MrFrost
9  MrFrost    3 weeks ago

Here are the call logs. 

UNCLASSIFIED

[PkgNumberShort]

Declassified by order of the President
September 24, 2019

EYES-ONLY
DO NOT COPY

MEMORANDUM OF TELEPHONE CONVERSATION

SUBJECT: (C)   Telephone Conversation with President Zelenskyy of Ukraine
PARTICIPANTS:

President Zelenskyy of Ukraine

Notetakers: The White House Situation Room

DATE TIME
AND PLACE
July 25, 2019, 9:03 - 9:33 a.m. EDT
Residence

(S/NF)   The President : Congratulations on a great victory. We all watched from the United States and you did a terrific job. The way you came from behind, somebody who wasn’t given much of a chance, and you ended up winning easily. It’s a fantastic achievement. Congratulations.

(S/NF)   President Zelenskyy : You are absolutely right Mr. President. We did win big and we worked hard for this. We worked a lot but I would like to confess to you that I had an opportunity to learn from you. We used quite a few of your skills and knowledge and were able to use it as an example for our elections and yes it is true that these were unique elections. We were in a unique situation that we were able to

CAUTION: A Memorandum of a Telephone Conversation (TELCON) is not a verbatim transcript of a discussion. The text in this document records the notes and recollections of Situation Room Duty officers and NSC policy staff assigned to listen and memorialize the conversation in written form as the conversation takes place. A number of factors can affect the accuracy of the record, including poor telecommunications connections and variations in accent and/or interpretation, The word “inaudible” is used to indicate portions of a conversation that the notetaker was unable to hear.

Classified By: 2354726

Derived From: NSC SCG

Declassify On: 20441231

UNCLASSIFIED

SECRET//ORCON/NOFORN

SECRET//ORCON/NOFORN

UNCLASSIFIED

2

achieve a unique success. I’m able to tell you the following; the first time, you called me to congratulate me when I won my presidential election, and the second time you are now calling me when my party won the parliamentary election. I think I should run more often so you can call me more often and we can talk over the phone more often.

(S/NF)   The President : [laughter] That’s a very good idea. I think your country is very happy about that.

(S/NF)   President Zelenskyy : Well yes, to tell you the truth, we are trying to work hard because we wanted to drain the swamp here in our country. We brought in many many new people. Not the old politicians, not the typical politicians, because we want to have a new format and a new type of government. You are a great teacher for us and in that.

(S/NF)   The President : Well it’s very nice of you to say that.   I will say that we do a lot for Ukraine. We spend a lot of effort and a lot of time. 1   Much more than the European countries are doing and they should be helping you more than they are. Germany does almost nothing for you. All they do is talk and I think it’s something that you should really ask them about. When I was speaking to Angela Merkel she talks Ukraine, but she doesn’t do anything. A lot of the European countries are the same way so I think it’s something you want to look at   but the United States has been very very good to Ukraine. I wouldn’t say that it’s reciprocal necessarily because things are happening that are not good but the United States has been very very good to Ukraine. 2

(S/NF)   President Zelenskyy : Yes you are absolutely right. Not only. 100%, but actually 1000% and I can tell you the following; I did talk to Angela Merkel and I did meet with her. I also met and talked with Macron and I told them that they are not doing quite as much as they need to be doing on the issues with the sanctions. They are not enforcing the sanctions. They are not working as much as they should work for Ukraine. It turns out that even though logically, the European Union should be our biggest partner but technically the United States is a much bigger partner than the European Union and I’m very grateful to you for that because the United States is doing quite a lot for Ukraine. Much more than the European Union especially when we are talking about sanctions against the Russian Federation. I would also like to thank you for your great support in the area of defense. We are ready to continue to cooperate for the next steps. specifically we are almost ready to buy more Javelins from the United States for defense purposes.

UNCLASSIFIED

SECRET//ORCON/NOFORN

[Side notes:

  • 1   Mr. Trump alludes to American aid, while not explicitly linking his request to unfreezing it. At the time of this call, Mr. Trump was holding back hundreds of millions of dollars in military assistance to Ukraine that Congress had appropriated to help that country fend off Russian aggression.
  • 2   Mr. Trump brings up the idea of reciprocity, suggesting that the United States has been good to Ukraine even though something Ukraine has done is not good. The next thing Mr. Trump said — after Mr. Zelensky responded to this statement — was to ask for investigations.]

SECRET//ORCON/NOFORN

UNCLASSIFIED

3

(S/NF)   The President :   I would like you to do us a favor though because our country has been through a lot and Ukraine knows a lot about it. I would like you to find out what happened with this whole situation with Ukraine, they say Crowdstrike... I guess you have one of your wealthy people... The server, they say Ukraine has it. There are a lot of things that went on, the whole situation. I think you’re surrounding yourself with some of the same people. I would like to have the Attorney General call you or your people and I would like you to get to the bottom of it 3 . As you saw yesterday, that whole nonsense ended with a very poor performance by a man named Robert Mueller, an incompetent performance, but they say a lot of it started with Ukraine. Whatever you can do, it’s very important that you do it if that’s possible.

(S/NF)   President Zelenskyy : Yes it is very important for me and everything that you just mentioned earlier. For me as a President, it is very important and we are open for any future cooperation. We are ready to open a new page on cooperation in relations between the United States and Ukraine. For that. purpose, I just recalled our ambassador from United States and he will be replaced by a very competent and very experienced ambassador who will work hard on making sure that our two nations are getting closer. I would also like and hope to see him having your trust and your confidence and have personal relations with you so we can cooperate even more so. I will personally tell you that one of my assistants spoke with Mr. Giuliani just recently and we are hoping very much that Mr. Giuliani will be able to travel to Ukraine and we will meet once he comes to Ukraine. I just wanted to assure you once again that you have nobody but friends around us. I will make sure that I surround myself with the best and most experienced people. I also wanted to tell you that we are friends. We are great friends and you Mr. President have, friends in our country so we can continue our strategic partnership. I also plan to surround myself with great people and in addition to that investigation, I guarantee as the President of Ukraine that all the investigations will be done openly and candidly. That I can assure you.

(S/NF)   The President : Good because I heard you had a prosecutor who was very good and he was shut down and that’s really unfair. A lot of people are talking about that, the way they shut your very good prosecutor down and you had some very bad people involved.   Mr. Giuliani is a highly respected man. He was the mayor of New York City, a great mayor, and I would like him to

UNCLASSIFIED

SECRET//ORCON/NOFORN

[Side notes: 3  Mr. Trump said Attorney General William P. Barr would call the Ukrainian president about another investigation. Mr. Trump appears to be referencing an unsubstantiated conspiracy theory pushed by Rudolph W. Giuliani, the president’s personal lawyer, that Ukraine had some involvement in the emails stolen from Democratic National Committee.]

SECRET//ORCON/NOFORN

UNCLASSIFIED

4

call you. I will ask him to call you along with the Attorney General. Rudy very much knows what’s happening and he is a very capable guy. If you could speak to him that would be great. 4   The former ambassador from the United States, the woman, was bad news and the people she was dealing with in the Ukraine were bad news so I just want to let you know that.   The other thing, There’s a lot of talk about Biden’s son, that Biden stopped the prosecution and a lot of people want to find out about that so whatever you can do with the Attorney General would be great. Biden went around bragging that he stopped the prosecution so if you can look into it... It sounds horrible to me.   5

(S/NF)   President Zelenskyy : I wanted to tell you about the prosecutor. First of all I understand and I’m knowledgeable about the situation.   Since we have won the absolute majority in our Parliament, the next prosecutor general will be 100% my person, my candidate, who will be approved by the parliament and will start as a new prosecutor in September. He or she will look into the situation, specifically to the company that you mentioned in this issue. The issue of the investigation of the case is actually the issue of making sure to restore the honesty so we will take care of that and will work on the investigation of the case. On top of that, I would kindly ask you if you have any additional information that you can provide to us, it would be very helpful for the investigation 6   to make sure that we administer justice in our country with regard to the Ambassador to the United States from Ukraine as far as I recall her name was Ivanovich. It was great that you were the first one, who told me that she was a bad ambassador because I agree with you 100%. Her attitude towards me was far from the best as she admired the previous President and she was on his side. She would not accept me as a new President: well enough.

(S/NF)   The President : Well, she’s going to go through some things. I will have Mr. Giuliani give you a call and I am also going to have Attorney General Barr call and we will get to the bottom of it. I’m sure you will figure it out. I heard the prosecutor was treated very badly and he was a very fair prosecutor so good luck with everything. Your economy is going to get better and better I predict. You have a lot of assets. It’s a great country. I have many Ukrainian friends, their incredible people.

(S/NF)   President Zelenskyy : I would like to tell you that I also have quite a few Ukrainian friends that live in the United States. Actually last time I traveled to the United States, I stayed in New York near Central Park and I stayed at the Trump

UNCLASSIFIED

SECRET//ORCON/NOFORN

[Side notes:

  • 4   Mr. Trump is pushing Mr. Zelensky to deal directly with Mr. Giuliani, his personal lawyer and close ally. Mr. Giuliani has repeatedly pushed conspiracy theories about the Bidens and encouraged the Ukrainian government to ramp up investigations into them.
  • 5   Here, Mr. Trump pushes the Ukrainian president to get his country’s prosecutor to open an investigation into former Vice President Joseph R. Biden Jr. and his son, Hunter.
  • 6   Mr. Zelensky promises to do what Mr. Trump is asking — launch an investigation into the Bidens — but also asks Mr. Trump if he can provide any information for Ukrainian investigators to look at.]

SECRET//ORCON/NOFORN

UNCLASSIFIED

5

Tower. I will talk to them and I hope to see them again in the future. I also wanted to thank you for your invitation to visit the United States, specifically Washington DC. On the other hand, I also want to ensure you that we will be very serious about the case and will work on the investigation. As to the economy, there is much potential for our two countries and one of the issues that is very important for Ukraine is energy independence. I believe we can be very successful and cooperating on energy independence with United States. We are already working on cooperation. We are buying American oil but I am very hopeful for a future meeting. We will have more time and more opportunities to discuss these opportunities and get to know each other better. I would like to thank you very much for your support.

(S/NF)   The President : Good. Well, thank you very much and I appreciate that. I will tell Rudy and Attorney General Barr to call. Thank you. Whenever you would like to come to the White House, feel free to call. Give us a date and we’ll work that out. I look forward to seeing you.

(S/NF)   President Zelenskyy : Thank you very much. I would be very happy to come and would be happy to meet with you personally and get to know you better. I am looking forward to our meeting and I also would like to invite you to visit Ukraine and come to the city of Kyiv which is a beautiful city. We have a beautiful country which would welcome you. On the other hand, I believe that on September 1 we will be in Poland and we can meet in Poland hopefully. After that, it might be a very good idea for you to travel to Ukraine. We can either take my plane and go to Ukraine or we can take your plane, which is probably much better than mine.

(S/NF)   The President : Okay, we can work that out. I look forward to seeing you in Washington and maybe in Poland because I think we are going to be there at that time.

(S/NF)   President Zelenskyy : Thank you very much Mr. President.

(S/NF)   The President : Congratulations on a fantastic job you’ve done. The whole world was watching. I’m not sure it was so much of an upset but congratulations.

(S/NF)   President Zelenskyy : Thank you Mr. President bye-bye.

-- End of Conversation --

 
 
 
Trout Giggles
9.1  Trout Giggles  replied to  MrFrost @9    3 weeks ago

Are they both talking about the same ambassador?

 
 
 
XDm9mm
9.2  XDm9mm  replied to  MrFrost @9    3 weeks ago
The point being that even when shown absolute facts, many republicans just refuse to believe them.  Trump admitted he asked the Ukraine to get dirt on Biden and his call logs back that up. That is illegal, that is a fact.

You noted this in the post immediately preceeding this one.

Now, I challenge you to SPECIFICALLY indicate with exact precision where Trump is asking for "dirt on Biden".  

Be specific, I don't want to see, 'well he's alluding to' or 'he implies'.  

Be very specific.

PS:  An American President asking another foreign leader to investigate previous corruption is in fact legal and actually his responsibility.

 
 
 
Trout Giggles
9.2.1  Trout Giggles  replied to  XDm9mm @9.2    3 weeks ago

There's also the little matter of approximately 15 minutes missing from this call. Also, it's not a verbatim transcript. How many times does that need to be said?

 
 
 
XDm9mm
9.2.2  XDm9mm  replied to  Trout Giggles @9.2.1    3 weeks ago
There's also the little matter of approximately 15 minutes missing from this call. Also, it's not a verbatim transcript. How many times does that need to be said?

So then what you're ADMITTING is that there is NO RECORD of President Trump specifically asking anyone to do anything.  Unlike the video Biden made explicitly indicating his real 'quid pro quo' with the Ukrainian President.

GOT IT!!

 
 
 
MrFrost
9.2.3  MrFrost  replied to  XDm9mm @9.2    3 weeks ago
Now, I challenge you to SPECIFICALLY indicate with exact precision where Trump is asking for "dirt on Biden".  

So unless he explicitly says, "I am withholding military aid unless you get me some dirt on Biden and give it to me so I can use it in my re-election bid in 2020", he didn't ask at all? 

C'mon man, it's right there, he was clearly seeking dirt on Biden to aid him in 2020, which is, illegal. 

Z: We are ready to continue to cooperate for the next steps. specifically we are almost ready to buy more Javelins from the United States for defense purposes. T: I would like you to do us a favor though..........

He wanted a favor in exchange for military aid. Again, it's illegal. 

 
 
 
Tessylo
9.2.4  Tessylo  replied to  Trout Giggles @9.2.1    3 weeks ago
'There's also the little matter of approximately 15 minutes missing from this call. Also, it's not a verbatim transcript. How many times does that need to be said?'

Plus someone said that they were 'fairly sure' some of that time lapse could be due to translators WHEN THERE WERE NO TRANSLATORS!

 
 
 
Trout Giggles
9.2.5  Trout Giggles  replied to  XDm9mm @9.2.2    3 weeks ago

What I'm stating is that we will probably never know because the tape of that call was scrubbed

 
 
 
XDm9mm
9.2.6  XDm9mm  replied to  Trout Giggles @9.2.5    3 weeks ago
What I'm stating is that we will probably never know because the tape of that call was scrubbed

uhmmm   maybe because there was no tape?  White House calls being taped ended long ago.

 
 
 
XDm9mm
9.2.7  XDm9mm  replied to  Tessylo @9.2.4    3 weeks ago
WHEN THERE WERE NO TRANSLATORS!

You know that for a fact as you were there right?

 
 
 
Tessylo
9.2.8  Tessylo  replied to  XDm9mm @9.2.7    3 weeks ago

jrSmiley_90_smiley_image.gif

 
 
 
Trout Giggles
9.2.9  Trout Giggles  replied to  XDm9mm @9.2.6    3 weeks ago

So the transcribers transcribe the call live?

 
 
 
Ozzwald
9.2.10  Ozzwald  replied to  XDm9mm @9.2.6    3 weeks ago
uhmmm   maybe because there was no tape?  White House calls being taped ended long ago.

Are you sure?  If you look it up, you will find some government servers that still use 5 1/4 floppy disks.

 
 
 
WallyW
9.3  WallyW  replied to  MrFrost @9    3 weeks ago

It took a lot of time and work to post all that useless information.  jrSmiley_40_smiley_image.gif

 
 
 
lib50
9.3.1  lib50  replied to  WallyW @9.3    3 weeks ago

Well don't need any transcripts for the crime this morning!  Trump came out in real time and asked China to look into the Bidens on TV.  So there you have it.  Its a crime, or are you going to tell us having foreign countries doing dirty work for politics is legal?

I am all for looking into the families of politicians and how they directly benefit from office.  Probably more pertinent to look at a CURRENT situation of the Trump/Kushner families as long as Biden is fair game.  Shall we begin, or is the Biden thing as far as conservatives want to look?  Be honest now.

 
 
 
It Is ME
9.3.2  It Is ME  replied to  lib50 @9.3.1    3 weeks ago
Trump came out in real time and asked China to look into the Bidens on TV. 

ummmmmm……. No he didn't !

 
 
 
MrFrost
9.3.3  MrFrost  replied to  lib50 @9.3.1    3 weeks ago
Well don't need any transcripts for the crime this morning!  Trump came out in real time and asked China to look into the Bidens on TV. 

I saw that, holy shit what a disaster. 

 
 
 
MrFrost
9.3.4  MrFrost  replied to  WallyW @9.3    3 weeks ago

It took a lot of time and work to post all that useless information. 

Sitting on a comfortable chair, typing isn't what I would call a lot of work. But I understand that you are upset having to read trumps own words that incriminate him. 

 
 
 
Dismayed Patriot
9.3.5  Dismayed Patriot  replied to  It Is ME @9.3.2    3 weeks ago
ummmmmm……. No he didn't !

I take it you weren't watching him this morning then.

"Likewise, China should start an investigation into the Bidens." - DJT

And before you claim that's not an ask, please explain the huge difference between saying "China, look into Biden" and "China should start looking into Biden"?

It would be like claiming there's a difference between "Stormy, have sex with me" and "Stormy should start having sex with me". If you're parsing hairs trying to do mental gymnastics to avoid the truth, just admit that you're one of those abject morons or shameless partisans who don't care about the rule of law Trump praised when he said "You know what else they say about my people? The polls, they say I have the most loyal people. Did you ever see that? Where I could stand in the middle of Fifth Avenue and shoot somebody and I wouldn’t lose any voters, okay? It’s like incredible,".

 
 
 
It Is ME
9.3.6  It Is ME  replied to  Dismayed Patriot @9.3.5    3 weeks ago
And before you claim that's not an ask

It wasn't !

Your word salad is for yourself only !

Show me where Trump said "He Asked China to look into Biden" .

Paleeeeeze !

It would make me sooooo Happy right now ! 

You do want to make me HAPPY …… don't you ?

 
 
 
Dismayed Patriot
9.3.7  Dismayed Patriot  replied to  It Is ME @9.3.6    3 weeks ago
Show me where Trump said "He Asked China to look into Biden" .

If you had some stranger standing on your front lawn and you came out and said "You should get off my lawn", how would you react if the stranger replied "What was that? I guess I'll stay right here until asked to move because you're speaking in riddles, you need to be more clear..."?

"China should start an investigation into the Bidens".

If someone is too obtuse to understand that as a request, then they're likely beyond help and truly don't care what this currently unindicted co-conspirator does.

 
 
 
It Is ME
9.3.8  It Is ME  replied to  Dismayed Patriot @9.3.7    3 weeks ago
If someone is too obtuse to understand that as a request

You deal in "Probable's" ?

It's like you think Trump is omnipotent.

 
 
 
Ozzwald
9.3.9  Ozzwald  replied to  Dismayed Patriot @9.3.5    3 weeks ago
It would be like claiming there's a difference between "Stormy, have sex with me" and "Stormy should start having sex with me".

Well in his defense, "Stormy, have sex with me", would imply a satisfactory ending on both sides. 

While, "Stormy should start having sex with me", would indicate The Donald finishing a few seconds later.

 
 
 
Krishna
9.3.10  Krishna  replied to  It Is ME @9.3.2    3 weeks ago

9.3.2     It Is ME     replied to    lib50   @ 9.3.1       9 hours ago

Trump came out in real time and  asked   China to look into the Bidens on TV.

ummmmmm……. No he didn't !

"No he didn't !" WTF???? Don't you ever read/watch the news? (Or maybe its because you only watch Faux News?):

Under the threat of impeachment over his request for Ukraine to look for damaging information about Joe Biden and his son Hunter, President Trump on Thursday called on China to also investigate the former vice president.

When asked what he was seeking from Ukrainian President Volodymr Zelensky in the July 25 phone call at the heart of the impeachment inquiry, Trump said he wanted the country to investigate the Bidens, then added that China should do the same. (Clicken Sie Hier: LINK)

 
 
 
Krishna
9.3.11  Krishna  replied to  Krishna @9.3.10    3 weeks ago
Under the threat of impeachment over his request for Ukraine to look for damaging information about Joe Biden and his son Hunter, President Trump on Thursday called on China to also investigate the former vice president. When asked what he was seeking from Ukrainian President Volodymr Zelensky in the July 25 phone call at the heart of the impeachment inquiry, Trump said he wanted the country to investigate the Bidens, then added that China should do the same. (Clicken Sie Hier: LINK)

Yes-- Trump actually is that stooopid!

 
 
 
It Is ME
9.3.12  It Is ME  replied to  Krishna @9.3.10    3 weeks ago
(Or maybe its because you only watch Faux News?):

What's a Faux News ?

"then added that China should do the same. (Clicken Sie Hier: LINK)"

No "Ask" in that statement

An "Ask" would be in the form of a question.

 
 
 
Ronin2
9.4  Ronin2  replied to  MrFrost @9    3 weeks ago

You think that phone conversation proves Trump was blackmailing Ukraine for personal gain? 

Trump is never subtle.

Funny how the left are overlooking Biden shooting his mouthing off about actually blackmailing the Ukrainian government to fire the lead prosecutor; who was investigating the company his son work's for. Biden, was trying to prove how big and tough he was. Now that is what Trump would have sounded like during the phone conversation if he was blackmailing Ukraine.

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2019/09/27/flashback_2018_joe_biden_brags_at_cfr_meeting_about_withholding_aid_to_ukraine_to_force_firing_of_prosecutor.html

So they said they had—they were walking out to a press conference. I said, nah, I’m not going to—or, we’re not going to give you the billion dollars. They said, you have no authority. You’re not the president. The president said—I said, call him.

(Laughter.)

I said, I’m telling you, you’re not getting the billion dollars. I said, you’re not getting the billion. I’m going to be leaving here in, I think it was about six hours. I looked at them and said: I’m leaving in six hours. If the prosecutor is not fired, you’re not getting the money. Well, son of a bitch. (Laughter.) He got fired. And they put in place someone who was solid at the time.

 
 
 
It Is ME
9.4.1  It Is ME  replied to  Ronin2 @9.4    3 weeks ago

Biden:

"I've never spoken to my son about his dealings"

I've spoken to my son, who lives in California, a couple times about his dealings"

jrSmiley_76_smiley_image.gif

Weird ! jrSmiley_78_smiley_image.gif

 
 
 
MrFrost
9.4.2  MrFrost  replied to  It Is ME @9.4.1    3 weeks ago

Do you have any evidence at all that Biden or his son did anything illegal in the Ukraine? 

Please, present your evidence. 

 
 
 
It Is ME
9.4.3  It Is ME  replied to  MrFrost @9.4.2    3 weeks ago
Do you have any evidence at all that Biden or his son did anything illegal in the Ukraine? 

I'm still waiting for most of the "Media" to do their actual job. So far ……. Nothin' from them mosties !

You rely on the media too …. dontchya ?

It's a good thing I didn't threaten to hold my breath !

Give it time MrFrost.....It TOO will maybe eventually come !

 
 
 
MrFrost
9.4.4  MrFrost  replied to  It Is ME @9.4.3    3 weeks ago
I'm still waiting for most of the "Media" to do their actual job. So far ……. Nothin' from them mosties !

I do watch the media, and eveything I have seen says there is ZERO evidence Biden or his son did anything illegal in the Ukraine. You are disputing that, so, present your evidence. 

We'll wait. 

 
 
 
It Is ME
9.4.5  It Is ME  replied to  MrFrost @9.4.4    3 weeks ago
I do watch the media, and eveything I have seen says there is ZERO evidence Biden or his son did anything illegal in the Ukraine

And your watching ……  New York Times ?

Oh …. sorry ….that's sensationalized reader type. jrSmiley_49_smiley_image.gif

Maybe MSNBC ? That's a looker for sure. They even exposed a Trump Tax return. They just couldn't find anything though.  But the Hype from them on that little episode was GREAT ! jrSmiley_99_smiley_image.jpg

 
 
 
MrFrost
9.4.6  MrFrost  replied to  It Is ME @9.4.5    3 weeks ago

So you got nothing.... Have a super day. 

 
 
 
It Is ME
9.4.7  It Is ME  replied to  MrFrost @9.4.6    3 weeks ago
So you got nothing.

That's what you could come up with ?

I'm just waiting for "Real" info before I "Judge".

You ?

 
 
 
Don Overton
9.4.8  Don Overton  replied to  It Is ME @9.4.5    3 weeks ago

[delete]

 
 
 
It Is ME
9.4.9  It Is ME  replied to  Don Overton @9.4.8    3 weeks ago
I'm sure

No your not !

 
 
 
igknorantzrulz
9.4.10  igknorantzrulz  replied to  It Is ME @9.4.9    3 weeks ago

Where do you get your 'info' from then ?

 
 
 
It Is ME
9.4.11  It Is ME  replied to  igknorantzrulz @9.4.10    3 weeks ago
Where do you get your 'info' from then ?

Journalist sources !

Opinion shows don't "Float my Boat" !

Ever seen me use a "Fox" report when I comment ?

 
 
 
Ozzwald
9.4.12  Ozzwald  replied to  It Is ME @9.4.1    3 weeks ago
Biden:

"I've never spoken to my son about his dealings"

I've spoken to my son, who lives in California, a couple times about his dealings"

So you are claiming that Trump DID know about Jr.'s Trump Tower meeting with the Russians?

 
 
 
It Is ME
9.4.13  It Is ME  replied to  Ozzwald @9.4.12    3 weeks ago
So you are claiming that Trump DID know about Jr.'s Trump Tower meeting with the Russians?

Do you always see things in comments that aren't there ?

Ya might wanna have that checked out. jrSmiley_88_smiley_image.gif

 
 
 
Ozzwald
9.4.14  Ozzwald  replied to  It Is ME @9.4.13    3 weeks ago
Do you always see things in comments that aren't there ?

It was a question, in case you are confused about the meaning of a "question mark".

You going to bother answering this one?

 
 
 
It Is ME
9.4.15  It Is ME  replied to  Ozzwald @9.4.14    3 weeks ago

"So you are claiming that Trump DID know about Jr.'s Trump Tower meeting with the Russians?"

I don't answer questions on things I NEVER claimed ! jrSmiley_80_smiley_image.gif

Do you know what the subject of the article is ? jrSmiley_97_smiley_image.gif

 
 
 
Ozzwald
9.4.16  Ozzwald  replied to  It Is ME @9.4.15    3 weeks ago
I don't answer questions on things I NEVER claimed !

Chalking up another question you refuse to answer.  What are we up to now, 20 or 30?

 
 
 
It Is ME
9.4.17  It Is ME  replied to  Ozzwald @9.4.16    3 weeks ago
Chalking up another question you refuse to answer.

Ditto:

Do you know what the subject of the article is ? 

  What are we up to now, 20 or 30?

Still "MAKING STUFF UP" ? jrSmiley_87_smiley_image.gif

 
 
 
Ozzwald
9.4.18  Ozzwald  replied to  It Is ME @9.4.17    3 weeks ago
Do you know what the subject of the article is ? 

Do you?  I'm just replying to your off-topic comment.

 
 
 
It Is ME
9.4.19  It Is ME  replied to  Ozzwald @9.4.18    3 weeks ago
Do you?

What ….. is this the 20 or 30th time you couldn't answer a simple question ? jrSmiley_88_smiley_image.gif

By the way....that was another question asked of you. jrSmiley_97_smiley_image.gif

 
 
 
Paula Bartholomew
9.5  Paula Bartholomew  replied to  MrFrost @9    3 weeks ago

We used quite a few of your skills and knowledge

Dumb just found dumber.

 
 
 
Nerm_L
10  Nerm_L    3 weeks ago

So, 60 pct of Republicans, 61 pct of independents, and 85 pct of Democrats say that Trump "probably did" mention the idea of investigating the Biden family?

Seems like this is more about the people's perception of the news media than it is about Trump.  Going to be difficult for Democrats to sell impeachment using the press when the veracity of today's journalism is being questioned by the public.  If Democrats continue to play dirty politics then there will obviously be a price to pay in the voting booth.  And it is becoming very apparent that Democrats aren't going to win the hearts and minds of voters with more dirty politics propagandized by a corrupt press.

Democrats are still stalling.  Impeaching Trump is no longer an option; impeachment is now a matter of political survival for Democrats.  Get on with it or retire.

 
 
 
lib50
10.1  lib50  replied to  Nerm_L @10    3 weeks ago

Relax, Nerm, Trump just came out on live TV and asked China to investigate the Bidens.  What a mouth he has.

 
 
 
Nerm_L
10.1.1  Nerm_L  replied to  lib50 @10.1    3 weeks ago
Relax, Nerm, Trump just came out on live TV and asked China to investigate the Bidens.  What a mouth he has.

Yep, Trump just has to show up in front of the cameras.  It takes a life threatening heart problem for Democratic candidates to get any news coverage.  Joe Biden can't even get news time after being targeted by Trump.  Trump is running against himself; Democrats aren't in the game at all.

Look, we all know that the establishment of the Democratic Party has already nominated Joe Biden just they nominated Clinton.  The party establishment is trying to keep Biden out of the news just as they tried to keep Clinton out of the news.  That didn't work last election and won't work this election, either.  Democrats should have learned by now that voters are really in charge of elections; not the press or political propagandists.

If Democrats don't impeach Trump now, after all the hair-on-fire shenanigans, then Democrats are going to pay a big price in the voting booth.  Even if Democrats win the White House in 2020, it wouldn't be surprising that 2022 midterms will make 2010 look like a very good election cycle for Democrats.  Democrats are setting themselves up for obscurity.  

Democrats are going to have to campaign on more than 'beat Trump'.  That's not a strategy for political relevance.  The TEA Party tried that with Obama.  Where's the TEA Party now?

 
 
 
igknorantzrulz
10.1.2  igknorantzrulz  replied to  Nerm_L @10.1.1    3 weeks ago

sipping Tea, at the TEA Party, i'd have to guess.

\

 
 
 
Nerm_L
10.1.3  Nerm_L  replied to  igknorantzrulz @10.1.2    3 weeks ago
sipping Tea, at the TEA Party, i'd have to guess.

And no one pays any attention.  Obama is gone so the TEA Party doesn't have anything to attract attention any longer.

What will Democrats do when Trump is gone?  Democrats don't have anything else to attract attention to themselves.  Except, maybe, their own mortality; the news media seems to pay attention regarding Democrat's infirmities.

 
 
 
Paula Bartholomew
10.1.4  Paula Bartholomew  replied to  lib50 @10.1    3 weeks ago

He puts his foot in his mouth so often that he has athlete's tongue.

 
 
 
Paula Bartholomew
11  Paula Bartholomew    3 weeks ago

Now he advises China to investigate the Bidens.  Unfreaking believable.  Does he think that only phone calls can be used against him?

 
 
 
lady in black
11.1  lady in black  replied to  Paula Bartholomew @11    3 weeks ago

And deporables cheer him on and see nothing wrong with it.

 
 
 
igknorantzrulz
11.2  igknorantzrulz  replied to  Paula Bartholomew @11    3 weeks ago

"Does he think" is the question...

as it's obvious, his supporters can't think clearly.

 
 
 
Paula Bartholomew
11.2.1  Paula Bartholomew  replied to  igknorantzrulz @11.2    3 weeks ago

Good point.

 
 
 
Dismayed Patriot
12  Dismayed Patriot    3 weeks ago

I think what we're seeing is a President who was elected by a minority of Americans who were so embittered and angry at the establishment that they intentionally elected an arsonist that they hoped would burn it all down. Now, when the rest of us stare open mouthed at the criminal arsonist caught red handed, accelerant and match in hand as he bends down and looks over his shoulder with a smirk, and then lights the white house on fire, and we scream "Hey! The President is an arsonist! He's burning things down!", his minority base respond's with "Woo Hoo! Our President Arsonist is burning it all down! Good job Mr. Arsonist! Keep it up! And look how angry it's making everyone we hate? See how upset those people who left us behind and went and got educated and trained for the jobs of the future while we waited for coal and manufacturing jobs to return? See the dismay on the faces of those Americans who refuse to submit to our evangelical Christian morality? Their pain and anguish is a double win!".

It's truly disgusting, but there it is. When Trump said "You know what else they say about my people? The polls, they say I have the most loyal people. Did you ever see that? Where I could stand in the middle of Fifth Avenue and shoot somebody and I wouldn’t lose any voters, okay? It’s like incredible," I don't think we really understood the reasons behind that phenomenon. The reason for it is because many of his sycophant supporters will metaphorically tell you "We wanted him to shoot that guy! We hated that guy!".

 
 
 
igknorantzrulz
12.1  igknorantzrulz  replied to  Dismayed Patriot @12    3 weeks ago

It's truly disgusting, but there it is. When Trump said "You know what else they say about my people? The polls, they say I have the most loyal people. Did you ever see that? Where I could stand in the middle of Fifth Avenue and shoot somebody and I wouldn’t lose any voters, okay? It’s like incredible,". The reason for that is many of his sycophant supporters will metaphorically tell you "We wanted him to shoot that guy! We hated that guy!".

I could forgive Trump.

If he was alone, on that One Way Street of his, but, 

as usual, he is wrong,

as he would LOSE his biggest vocal supporter,

but,

i'd still forgive him.

 
 
 
MrFrost
12.2  MrFrost  replied to  Dismayed Patriot @12    3 weeks ago
I think what we're seeing is a President who was elected by a minority of Americans who were so embittered and angry at the establishment that they intentionally elected an arsonist that they hoped would burn it all down.

Bingo. Buddy of mine voted for trump and he openly admits he did so just so he could watch the chaos. 

 
 
 
Paula Bartholomew
12.2.1  Paula Bartholomew  replied to  MrFrost @12.2    3 weeks ago

Tell your buddy to stay home in 2020.  He proved he can't vote responsibility.

 
 
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