Major sell-off on Wall Street amid concerns economy is slowing

  
Via:  perrie-halpern  •  3 weeks ago  •  34 comments

Major sell-off on Wall Street amid concerns economy is slowing
The markets are down 3 percent over two days, as new data suggests the economy could be slowing and the trade war with China a contributing factor.

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Buzz of the Orient
1  Buzz of the Orient    3 weeks ago
"...new data suggests the economy could be slowing and the trade war with China a contributing factor"

Not just a contributing factor, it was the cause of it, and the whole world is going to feel the pain from a war started and continued by Trump.

 
 
 
XDm9mm
1.1  XDm9mm  replied to  Buzz of the Orient @1    3 weeks ago
Not just a contributing factor, it was the cause of it,

Honestly Buzz....   bring it on.

I'm tired of America being ripped off by China and every other country.

I'm actually very happy to have it happen.  I'm actually starting to see more products that say "Made in America" or "Made in the USA" and "Made in (name a country other than China)" and less and less "Made in China" (or here in the San Antonio area Heche en China)

Will there be some pain, yeah.  But so be it.   I'd rather suffer a little pain than have my grandkids working as clerks selling shit made in China to other Americans selling shit made in China.

 
 
 
Buzz of the Orient
1.1.1  Buzz of the Orient  replied to  XDm9mm @1.1    3 weeks ago

LOL.  You never can tell.  There is a Chinese town where there are a number of clothing manufacturers that renamed itself "Italy".  Their products are labelled "Made in Italy".

 
 
 
Jack_TX
1.1.2  Jack_TX  replied to  Buzz of the Orient @1.1.1    3 weeks ago

That's genius.

 
 
 
XDm9mm
1.1.3  XDm9mm  replied to  Jack_TX @1.1.2    3 weeks ago
That's genius.

Who knows.   I'm an old fart, but I remember a story about Japanese stuff being "Made in Usa"

I don't know the veracity of the story, but I do know there is a Japanese town called Usa, so who knows.  

 
 
 
Krishna
1.1.4  Krishna  replied to  XDm9mm @1.1.3    2 weeks ago
so who knows.  

Snopes knows.

 
 
 
Kavika
2  Kavika     3 weeks ago

With the new WTO ruling and the U.S. putting tariffs on additional EU products it will get worse. Next year when the WTO decides how much the EU can legally tariff the US because of Boeing you'll see it get even worse. 

 
 
 
XDm9mm
2.1  XDm9mm  replied to  Kavika @2    3 weeks ago
With the new WTO ruling and the U.S. putting tariffs on additional EU products it will get worse.

Such is life.   I'm not a big fan of European wines since we make pretty damn good ones here.  And other than some grossly overpriced 'Haute couture' bullshit the average American has no need of, what do they provide us?

Next year when the WTO decides how much the EU can legally tariff the US because of Boeing you'll see it get even worse

Next year it won't matter.  The European economy will already be in the tank, hell, they're almost there already.  And Boeing does not get the support and assistance that AIRBUS does.   So, that's an apples to oranges comparison.

 
 
 
pat wilson
2.1.1  pat wilson  replied to  XDm9mm @2.1    2 weeks ago

I'm not a big fan of European wines since we make pretty damn good ones here.  And other than some grossly overpriced 'Haute couture' bullshit the average American has no need of, what do they provide us?

The top import categories (2-digit HS) in 2018 were: machinery ($80.2 billion), pharmaceuticals ($71.9 billion), vehicles ($56.4 billion), optical and medical instruments ($32.3 billion), and electrical machinery ($28.1 billion).

https://ustr.gov/countries-regions/europe-middle-east/europe/european-union

 
 
 
XDm9mm
2.1.2  XDm9mm  replied to  pat wilson @2.1.1    2 weeks ago
The top import categories (2-digit HS) in 2018 were: machinery ($80.2 billion), pharmaceuticals ($71.9 billion), vehicles ($56.4 billion), optical and medical instruments ($32.3 billion), and electrical machinery ($28.1 billion).

Then I suggest we get our asses in gear and get to making our own.

Regarding pharmaceuticals, I would suggest we make 100% of them here, including ALL of the ingredients.   Unfortunately, the global market is TOO reliant on Communist China for the ingredients, and too many of those ingredients are being found to be tainted.

Vehicles?  I prefer American made, even the foreign named ones.  

Optical and medical instruments....   Yeah, Siemon has that pretty much locked, but they can be replaced.   But hell, Siemon makes everything from locomotives down to surgical needles.

Electrical....  see immediate above.

 
 
 
Jack_TX
2.2  Jack_TX  replied to  Kavika @2    3 weeks ago
With the new WTO ruling and the U.S. putting tariffs on additional EU products it will get worse. Next year when the WTO decides how much the EU can legally tariff the US because of Boeing you'll see it get even worse. 

I expect a "deal"...probably in the spring...where DT will declare victory in the "Trade War" and go back to pre-tariff status quo.  He'll campaign on the "victory" and the markets will get a new infusion of fuel to move higher.

The danger of that gambit is that other factors will have set in to suppress the economy.

 
 
 
Kavika
2.2.1  Kavika   replied to  Jack_TX @2.2    2 weeks ago
I expect a "deal"...probably in the spring...where DT will declare victory in the "Trade War" and go back to pre-tariff status quo.  He'll campaign on the "victory" and the markets will get a new infusion of fuel to move higher.

As the self proclaimed ''deal maker'' we'll have to wait. It could be a really really big deal or no deal.

The danger of that gambit is that other factors will have set in to suppress the economy.

There are signs that the economy is slowing. The big change will come when 70% of our GNP is domestic spending. If consumers stop or slow their buying then the bottom will drop out of the economy. 

I like following some of the indicators and some that are not leading indicators but do, to an extent, signal a warning. 

 
 
 
WallyW
3  WallyW    3 weeks ago

China is being made to feel the pain. Trying to ignore their actions was never a good idea

 
 
 
Buzz of the Orient
3.1  Buzz of the Orient  replied to  WallyW @3    3 weeks ago

Get even - steal their technology. 

 
 
 
XDm9mm
3.1.1  XDm9mm  replied to  Buzz of the Orient @3.1    3 weeks ago
Get even - steal their technology.

Steal what?   Finger locks?

The only technology they have is what they've stolen from others.  Now, they might have improved on some stuff, but that's easy to do when you don't have to have the original idea yourself and aren't 'locked' into a concept.

 
 
 
MUVA
3.1.2  MUVA  replied to  Buzz of the Orient @3.1    3 weeks ago

You can’t steal what is not theirs to being with.

 
 
 
Buzz of the Orient
3.1.3  Buzz of the Orient  replied to  XDm9mm @3.1.1    3 weeks ago

You know that for a fact, or is your comment based on bias?

 
 
 
Buzz of the Orient
3.1.4  Buzz of the Orient  replied to  MUVA @3.1.2    3 weeks ago

You too.  Did you check out their military parade?

 
 
 
XDm9mm
3.1.5  XDm9mm  replied to  Buzz of the Orient @3.1.3    3 weeks ago
You know that for a fact, or is your comment based on bias?

Well, when things like fighter aircraft look surprisingly like exact duplicates of American fighters, even before those fighters are in widespread use by our own airforce, when we continually arrest Chinese agents stealing technology, when the FBI estimates there are over 100,000 active Chinese spies on America, I'll submit it's a pretty good idea.

Can you prove otherwise?  Or is your question based on your own bias?

 
 
 
Buzz of the Orient
3.1.6  Buzz of the Orient  replied to  XDm9mm @3.1.5    3 weeks ago

"Just the facts, ma'am, just the facts."  

Well, when you call a person a thief, it's your obligation to prove it - isn't that American justice?  Do you have a reliable source for your accusations?   

Watch out for the "Yellow peril".

 
 
 
XDm9mm
3.1.7  XDm9mm  replied to  Buzz of the Orient @3.1.6    3 weeks ago

There is this:

Chinese Spies Engaged in Massive Theft of U.S. Technology

Obama weakened counterintelligence against foreign spies, Congress told

      Xi-Jinping-1.jpg Chinese President Xi Jinping / Getty Images Bill Gertz   -   APRIL 12, 2018 5:00 AM
China is engaged in large-scale theft of American research and technology from universities, using spies, students, and researchers as collectors, experts told Congress on Wednesday.

Compounding the technology theft, the administration of President Barack Obama weakened U.S. counterintelligence efforts against foreign spies by curbing national-level counterspy efforts, a former counterintelligence official disclosed during a House hearing.

Michelle Van Cleave, former national counterintelligence executive, said shortly after the creation of the office of the director of national intelligence in 2004, a national counterspy program against foreign spies was restricted during the administration of President George W. Bush.

"Unfortunately, the backsliding continued under President Obama," Van Cleave told two subcommittees of the House Science, Space, and Technology Committee.

Van Cleave said a directive issued by then-DNI James Clapper in 2013 and still in force reduced the national counterintelligence program authority by directing all counterspy programs to be run by individual departments or agencies.

"The national head of counterintelligence was rebranded director of a security and CI center, his duties further dissipated by the fixation on leaks and insider threats driven by the grievous harm done by Snowden, Manning, et al," Van Cleave said, referring to intelligence leakers Edward Snowden, an NSA contractor, and Army Sgt. Bradley Manning.

"Gone was any dedicated strategic [counterintelligence] program, while elite pockets of proactive capabilities died of neglect," she said.

"Read between the lines of existing CI guidance and you will not find a whiff of a national-level effort left, other than caretaker duties such as taking inventory and writing reports."

Several intelligence and security experts testified during the hearing that China poses the most significant threat of technology theft from an estimated $510 billion spent annually on U.S. research and development.

"China has a government-directed, multi-faceted secret program whose primary task is technology acquisition, as well as a highly refined strategy to develop and exploit access to advantageous information through the global telecommunications infrastructure," Van Cleave said.

Along with Russian intelligence agents, Chinese technology spies have developed specific lists of technology for theft. Beijing uses clandestine agents, front companies, and joint research ventures in the theft program.

"Indeed, the United States is a spy's paradise," Van Cleave said. "Our free and open society is tailor-made for clandestine operations."

Michael Wessel, chairman of the congressional U.S.-China Economic Security Review Commission, testified that the Chinese are focused on stealing American advanced technology related to artificial intelligence, robotics, and other cutting edge technology.

Beijing has national-level programs to obtain advanced technologies with both military and commercial applications. They include acquisition of know-how related to new energy vehicles, advanced information technology, biotechnology, new materials, aerospace, ocean engineering, railway systems, robotics, power equipment, and agricultural machinery.

"In the case of robotics and AI, two fields of study with the potential to fundamentally change the international economy as well as the future of war-fighting, China has released the Robotics Industry Development Plan and Next Generation Artificial Intelligence Development Plan with the goals of China assuming global leadership in the coming decades," Wessel said.

China also is infiltrating American universities by funding language and cultural centers called Confucius Institutes that are being used as cover for technology theft. About 100 of the institutes are operating on American campuses and use their funding as part of "soft power" efforts in the United States.

China is also using some of the 350,000 Chinese students in the United States for intelligence work. Chinese spies recruit students with appeals such as "can you help China?" Wessel said.

Recent spy cases have included an electrical engineering professor at the University of Tennessee, John Reese Roth, who in 2008 was convicted of illegally sending defense technology through Chinese students back to China.

In 2009, Ruopeng Lieu, a researcher at Duke University, passed sensitive technology data to China. The information helped Beijing create the Kuang-Chi Science Ltd, a multibillion metamaterials company engaged in wireless internet and mobile payment fields.

In 2015, Chinese professors were among six defendants charged with economic espionage by the Justice Department. An indictment charged stolen American trade secrets were used to assist Chinese universities and state-run companies in China.

Wessel said 20 percent of those working on advanced artificial intelligence at the Berkeley Artificial Intelligence Research Lab are Chinese nationals. Also, 30 of the 38 post-doctorial researchers at the University of Maryland's Bing Nano Research Group are from China, he said.

"While we should continue to work to contribute to the world's efforts to address the most vexing problems facing the world, we must take greater steps to protect the fruits of our work," Wessel said. "Efforts to infiltrate our universities and labs and exfiltrate their work must be a greater priority."

Van Cleave, the former counterintelligence official, said greater efforts are needed to stem the loss of technology to China.

"Counterintelligence—identifying, assessing, and neutralizing foreign intelligence threats—has been little more than an afterthought in U.S. national security strategy, a legacy of neglect that has cost us dearly in lives lost, resources squandered, and dangers unchecked," she said.

Counterspy efforts currently are divided among the FBI, CIA, and Pentagon. The division has created gaps allowing foreign spies to operate in the United States with impunity.

Congress passed the Counterintelligence Enhancement Act in 2002 to fix the problems, but intelligence bureaucracies resisted the reforms and as a result counterspying has been weakened, not improved, Van Cleave said.

"U.S. counterintelligence is finely tuned to work individual cases, but it is not postured globally to detect, deter, or disrupt the intelligence activities of China or any other foreign power, or to execute strategic counterintelligence operations," she said.

"We know surprisingly little about adversary intelligence services relative to the harm they can do."

Van Cleave urged going on the offense against foreign spies by penetrating and disrupting foreign intelligence organizations before they reach the United States.

The goal is to degrade foreign spy services and their ability to conduct operations against the United States.

"We can chase individual spies or technology thieves case by case, or we can target the services that send them here," Van Cleave said. "In short, we can go on offense but national leadership must be willing to direct and empower America's counterintelligence enterprise to carry out that vital mission."

Joel Melstad, a spokesman for the National Counterintelligence and Security Center, did not directly address Van Cleave's criticism. But he said: "Our workforce remains strongly focused on strategic counterintelligence capabilities."

Melstad said that other than the name change, counterintelligence authorities of the director of the National Counterintelligence and Security Center remain the same as those under the 2002 law.

"And while we must respond to demand signals from our government partners concerning important issues like insider threats and leaks, we have not lost sight of the larger strategic CI goal," Melstad said.

The hearing was a joint session of the committee's research and technology subcommittee and oversight subcommittee.

Oversight subcommittee chairman Ralph Abraham (R., La.), told the hearing China is the most aggressive at stealing U.S. technology but the problem involved other foreign nations as well and the activities must be stopped.

"Essentially, China steals our fundamental research and quickly capitalizes by commercializing the technology," he said.

Research and technology subcommittee chairman Rep. Barbara Comstock (R., Va.) said the theft of American technology is a serious problem.

"It is imperative that our academic institutions not close their eyes to the very real threat posed by foreign intelligence spies," she said. "They cannot be blinded by naiveté or ignorance when distinguishing between friend and foe."

And just the other day, we learned of this:

Chinese Student Living in America Arrested for Allegedly Spying on U.S.

By  Chris Agee
Published September 28, 2018 at 11:57am
Federal prosecutors confirmed a Chinese citizen living in the U.S. on a visa is facing criminal charges related to allegations that he acted as a spy for his home country.

In a   press release   this week, the U.S. Department of Justice confirmed that authorities arrested 27-year-old Chicago resident Ji Chaoqun on Thursday.

The suspect “worked at the direction of a high-level intelligence officer in the Jiangsu Province Ministry of State Security, a provincial department of the Ministry of State Security for the People’s Republic of China,” a complaint said.

After entering the U.S. in 2013 on a F1 Visa permit, authorities say Ji joined the U.S. Army Reserves as part of a program that allows legal aliens with vital skills to participate in certain operations.

“In his application to participate in the (Military Accessions Vital to the National Interest) program, Ji specifically denied having had contact with a foreign government within the past seven years,” the Justice Department statement said, citing court documents.

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It was during “a subsequent interview with a U.S. Army officer” that Ji allegedly acknowledged his communication with Chinese officials.

As part of the alleged spy mission, authorities believe the suspect provided data about individuals who possibly could be recruited by the Chinese government.
According to the Justice Department, an affidavit filed in U.S. District Court in Chicago says the targeted individuals “included Chinese nationals who were working as engineers and scientists in the United States, some of whom were U.S. defense contractors.”

“They just wanted me to purchase some documents on their behalf,” he allegedly told the agent. “Their reason was just because it was inconvenient for them to make payments from China.”

Ji is expected to face one criminal count of “knowingly acting in the United States as an agent of a foreign government without prior notification to the Attorney General,” the press release said.

Advertisement - story continues below

The suspect made an initial court appearance Tuesday.

According to  The Associated Press , Ji appeared tired when he addressed U.S. Magistrate Judge Michael T. Mason.

After conferring with a translator for much of the hearing, he responded in English when the judge asked if he understood his rights.

“I understand,” Ji said.

In addition to the FBI and law enforcement, the Justice Department credited military intelligence officials for their assistance in bringing the evidence together to file a criminal complaint.

“The U.S. Army 902nd Military Intelligence Group provided valuable assistance,” the statement added.

If convicted, the suspect could face up to a decade behind bars, though prosecutors cautioned that the “criminal complaint is merely an accusation” and Ji “is presumed innocent unless and until proven guilty.”\

Source:  https://www.westernjournal.com/chinese-student-living-america-arrested-allegedly-spying-u-s/

So, do you want more?   There's plenty out there.  

Oh, the vast majority of the news we get here in America isn't censored.   Wouldn't that be nice where you are?

 
 
 
 
Buzz of the Orient
3.1.11  Buzz of the Orient  replied to  XDm9mm @3.1.7    2 weeks ago

I would rather watch unbiased news, something America has forgotten about.  And, I get to see the news - even about the Hong Kong rioting, on ChInese news TV and internet.

 
 
 
Buzz of the Orient
3.1.12  Buzz of the Orient  replied to  XDm9mm @3.1.7    2 weeks ago

Oh, and the CIA has NO spies in China, eh?  Pot-Kettle.

 
 
 
MUVA
3.1.13  MUVA  replied to  Buzz of the Orient @3.1.12    2 weeks ago

You should point them out the party will give you a award.

 
 
 
 
Buzz of the Orient
3.1.15  Buzz of the Orient  replied to  Buzz of the Orient @3.1.12    2 weeks ago

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
4  Vic Eldred    3 weeks ago

The Market is slowing down. The cause: A bull market that has to finally come down to planet earth? Uncertainty on trade? The weakness of the Dollar? 

Companies are reducing Capital expenditures. The bigger question for most people - will it effect hiring?

Jobs numbers tomorrow.

 
 
 
XDm9mm
4.1  XDm9mm  replied to  Vic Eldred @4    3 weeks ago
The bigger question for most people - will it effect hiring?

I don't think it will, at least seriously.  Americans are still buying and that's what is keeping our economy afloat.

Of course, with the Democrats doing all in their power to deflect from the strength of the American economy and even, yes do everything they can think of to persuade the American people of a recession including bogus impeachment nonsense, a recession is a foregone conclusion.

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
4.1.1  Vic Eldred  replied to  XDm9mm @4.1    3 weeks ago
Of course, with the Democrats doing all in their power to deflect from the strength of the American economy

Yup, they do control most of the media and here we are during a period of prosperity talking about a possible recession! When has that ever happened before?

 
 
 
Split Personality
4.1.2  Split Personality  replied to  Vic Eldred @4.1.1    2 weeks ago

When George Bush was running for election.  He predicted doom & gloom if we did not elect him.

He was partially right.  We still got the doom & gloom.

 
 
 
Krishna
4.2  Krishna  replied to  Vic Eldred @4    2 weeks ago
The Market is slowing down. The cause

Tariffs.

 
 
 
Dean Moriarty
5  Dean Moriarty    3 weeks ago

I've been expecting a recession for a while now. The economy is cyclical and we are overdue for a recession. 

"There were 33 business cycles in the United States between 1854 and 2009 based on the National Bureau of Economic Research. The average length of a growing economy is 38.7 months or 3.2 years. The average recession lasts for 17.5 months or 1.5 years. A full business cycle on average is 4.7 years."

https://www.forbes.com/sites/cameronkeng/2018/10/23/recession-is-overdue-by-4-5-years-heres-how-to-prepare/#318363db40d8

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
5.1  Vic Eldred  replied to  Dean Moriarty @5    2 weeks ago

Jobless claims still near 20 year low

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