Trump’s calls with foreign leaders have long worried aides, leaving some ‘genuinely horrified’

  
Via:  john-russell  •  3 weeks ago  •  80 comments

Trump’s calls with foreign leaders have long worried aides, leaving some ‘genuinely horrified’
“People who could do things for him — he was nice to,” said one former security official. “Leaders with trade deficits, strong female leaders, members of NATO — those tended to go badly.” Aides bristled at the dismissive way he sometimes addressed longtime U.S. allies, especially women.

S E E D E D   C O N T E N T



Trump’s calls with foreign leaders have long worried aides, leaving some ‘genuinely horrified’


OCTOBER 04, 2019

In one of his first calls with a head of state, President Trump fawned over Russian President Vladimir Putin, telling the man who ordered interference in America’s 2016 election that he was a great leader and apologizing profusely for not calling him sooner.

He pledged to Saudi officials in another call that he would help the monarchy enter the elite Group of Seven, an alliance of the world’s leading democratic economies.

He promised the president of Peru that he would deliver to his country a C-130 military cargo plane overnight, a logistical nightmare that set off a herculean scramble in the West Wing and Pentagon.

And in a later call with Putin, Trump asked the former KGB officer for his guidance in forging a friendship with North Korea’s Kim Jong Un — a fellow authoritarian hostile to the United States.

Starting long before revelations about Trump’s   interactions with Ukraine’s president   rocked Washington, Trump’s phone calls with foreign leaders were an anxiety-ridden set of events for his aides and members of the administration, according to former and current officials. They worried that Trump would make promises he shouldn’t keep, endorse policies the United States long opposed, commit a diplomatic blunder that jeopardized a critical alliance, or simply pressure a counterpart for a personal favor.

“There was a constant undercurrent in the Trump administration of [senior staff] who were genuinely horrified by the things they saw that were happening on these calls,” said one former White House official, who spoke on the condition of anonymity to discuss the private conversations. “Phone calls that were embarrassing, huge mistakes he made, months and months of work that were upended by one impulsive tweet.”

But Trump’s July 25 call with Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky went beyond whether the leader of the free world had committed a faux pas, and into grave concerns he had engaged in a possible crime or impeachable offense. The release last week of a whistleblower complaint alleging Trump pressured Ukraine to investigate his political rivals as well as the release of a rough transcript of the July call led to House Democrats launching an impeachment inquiry against Trump.

The Ukraine controversy has put a renewed focus on Trump’s unorthodox way of interacting with fellow world leaders in diplomatic calls.

Critics, including some former administration officials, contend that Trump’s behavior on calls with foreign leaders have at times created unneeded tensions with allies and sent troubling signals to adversaries or authoritarians that the United States supports or at least does not care about human rights or their aggressive behavior elsewhere in the world.

Joel Willett, a former intelligence officer who worked at the National Security Council from 2014 to 2015, said he was concerned both by the descriptions of a president winging it, and the realization that the president’s behavior disturbs and frightens career civil servants.

“What a burden it must be to be stuck between your position of trust in the White House and another obligation you may feel to the American people to say something,” he said.

The White House did not respond to a request for comment Thursday or Friday.

Sen. Lindsey O. Graham (R-S.C.), a Trump ally, said the president speaks his mind and diverges from other presidents who follow protocol. Graham said he saw nothing distressing in the president’s July 25 call with Zelensky and said he expected it to be worse, partially given his own experience with Trump on the phone.

“If you take half of my phone calls with him, it wouldn’t read as cleanly and nicely,” he said, adding that the president sounded like a “normal person.”

This story is based on interviews with 12 former or current officials with knowledge of the president’s foreign calls. These officials had direct involvement in the calls, were briefed on them or read the transcripts afterward. All spoke on the condition of anonymity to discuss the president’s private conversations with world leaders.

The first call Trump made that set off alarm bells came less than two weeks after his inauguration. On Jan. 28, Trump called Putin for what should have been a routine formality: accepting a foreign leader’s congratulations. Former White House officials described Trump as “obsequious” and “fawning,” but said he also rambled off into different topics without any clear point, while Putin appeared to stick to formal talking points for a first official exchange.

“He was like, ‘Oh my gosh, my people didn’t tell me you wanted to talk to me,’ ” said one person with direct knowledge of the call.

Trump has been consistently cozy with authoritarian leaders, sparking anxiety among aides about the solicitous tones he struck with Chinese President Xi Jinping, Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan and Putin.

“We couldn’t figure out early on why he was being so nice to Russia,” one former senior administration official said. H.R. McMaster, the president’s then-national security adviser, launched an internal campaign to get Trump to be more   skeptical of the Russians . Officials expressed surprise in both of his early Putin calls at why he was so friendly.

In another   call, in April 2017 , Trump told Philippine President Rodrigo Duterte, who had overseen a brutal campaign that has resulted in the extrajudicial killings of thousands of suspected drug dealers, that he was doing an “unbelievable job on the drug problem.”

Trump’s personal goals seeped into calls. He pestered Japanese Prime Minister Shinzo Abe for help in recommending him   for a Nobel Prize , according to an official familiar with the call.

“People who could do things for him — he was nice to,” said one former security official. “Leaders with trade deficits, strong female leaders, members of NATO — those tended to go badly.”

Aides bristled at the dismissive way he sometimes addressed longtime U.S. allies, especially women.

In a summer 2018 call with Prime Minister Theresa May, Trump harangued the British leader about her country’s contribution to NATO. He then disputed her intelligence community’s conclusion that Putin’s government had orchestrated the attempted  murder and poisoning  of a former Russian spy on British soil.

“Trump was totally bought into the idea there was credible doubt about the poisoning,” said one person briefed on the call. “A solid 10 minutes of the conversation is spent with May saying it’s highly likely and him saying he’s not sure.”

Trump would sometimes make commitments to foreign leaders that flew in the face of U.S. policy and international agreements, as when he told a Saudi royal that he would support their country’s entry into the G-7.

“The G-7 is supposed to be the allies with whom we share the most common values and the deepest commitment to upholding the rules-based order,” the former official said.

Russia was kicked out of the group in 2014 for violating international law when it invaded Ukraine and annexed Crimea. Trump has   publicly advocated   for Russia to be allowed back in. Saudi Arabia, which oppresses women and has a record of human rights abuses, wasn’t a fit candidate for membership, the former official said.

Saudi Arabia was not admitted to the group.

Calls with foreign leaders have often been highly orchestrated events in past administrations.

“When I was at the White House, there was a very deliberative process of the president absorbing information from people who had deep substantive knowledge of the countries and relationships with these leaders. Preparation for these calls was taken very seriously,” Willett said. “It appears to be freestyle and ad-libbed now.”

Trump has rejected much of the protocol and preparation associated with foreign calls, even as his national security team tried to establish goals for each conversation.

Instead, Trump often sought to use calls as a way to befriend whoever he was talking to, one current senior administration official said, defending the president. “So he might say something that sounds terrible to the outside, but in his mind, he’s trying to build a relationship with that person and sees flattery as the way to do it.”

The president resisted long briefings before calls or reading in preparation, several former officials said. McMaster, who preferred providing the president with information he could use to make decisions, resigned himself to giving Trump small notecards with bulleted highlights and talking points.

“You had two to three minutes max,” said one former senior administration official. “And then he was still usually going to say whatever he wanted to say.”

As a result, staff fretted that Trump came across ill-informed in some calls, and even oafish. In a conversation with China’s Xi, Trump repeated numerous times how much he liked a kind of chocolate cake, one former official said. The president publicly described the dessert the two had in April 2017 when   Trump and Xi   met at the president’s Mar-a-Lago resort as “the most beautiful piece of chocolate cake you have ever seen.”

Trump preferred to make calls from the residence, which frustrated some NSC staff and West Wing aides who wanted to be on hand to give the president real-time advice. If he held the call in the Oval Office, aides would gather around the desk and pass him notes to try to keep the calls on point. On a few occasions, then-Chief of Staff John F. Kelly muted the call to try to get the president back on track, two officials said.

Tim O’Brien, a Trump biographer and critic, said the calls fit Trump’s style as a business leader.

“When he had to get on calls with investors on a publicly traded company, they had to worry that he would break securities laws and lie about the company’s profits,” O’Brien said. “When he would go and meet with regulators with the casino control commission, his lawyers were always worried under oath, in a public setting, that he would say something that would be legally damaging.”

Though calls with foreign leaders are routinely planned in advance, Trump a few times called Canadian Prime Minister Justin Trudeau and French President Emmanuel Macron unannounced, as if they were friends, a former administration official said.

After some early summaries of Trump calls with the leaders of   Mexico   and   Australia   leaked to the press in 2017, the White House tightened restrictions on who could access the transcripts and kept better track of who had custody of copies. For example, Vice President Pence still received a courtesy copy of any foreign-leader call, but his staff now had to sign off when they transported it to his office and also sign off when they returned or destroyed the document.

Some former officials said that over time staff became used to the oddity of some calls even if they still found them troubling.

“People had gotten really numb to him blurting out something he shouldn’t have,” one former national security staffer remarked.

But officials who had served in the White House through the end of 2018 were still shocked by the whistleblower complaint about the effort to “lock down” records of Trump’s July 25 call. The complaint said White House officials ordered the transcript moved into a highly secure computer system, known as NICE, which is normally reserved only for information about the most sensitive code-word-level intelligence programs.

“Unheard of,” said one former official who handled foreign calls. “That just blew me away.”

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JohnRussell
1  seeder  JohnRussell    3 weeks ago
On Jan. 28, Trump called Putin for what should have been a routine formality: accepting a foreign leader’s congratulations. Former White House officials described Trump as “obsequious” and “fawning,” but said he also rambled off into different topics without any clear point
 
 
 
WallyW
1.1  WallyW  replied to  JohnRussell @1    3 weeks ago

WaPo is not a unbiased or neutral source.

 
 
 
JohnRussell
1.1.1  seeder  JohnRussell  replied to  WallyW @1.1    3 weeks ago

lol. 

Why dont you seed the Gateway Pundit article on the topic for us? 

 
 
 
PJ
2  PJ    3 weeks ago

Its clear why Trump and his Administration have tried to weaken our federal workforce and civil servants.  We need these career professionals more than ever.  They need to remember their oath to the Constitution and bring down those who are attacking our country from within.   Those supporters that would encourage this President and his Administration to continue to break the law are also enemies of our country.

 
 
 
MrFrost
2.1  MrFrost  replied to  PJ @2    3 weeks ago
Those supporters that would encourage this President and his Administration to continue to break the law are also enemies of our country.

Agreed, and I think that anyone that would vote for trump after the last 3 years of absolute chaos and lawlessness, must hate America. Trump literally has no morals, no class, no honesty and no loyalty to anyone or anything but himself. 

 
 
 
r.t..b...
2.1.1  r.t..b...  replied to  MrFrost @2.1    3 weeks ago
no morals, no class, no honesty and no loyalty to anyone or anything but himself. 

The stupefying aspect of this whole episode. The 'feelings' over intellect deflection, so often trotted out by his supporters, becomes moot in the realization that they are basing their support solely on emotion...fear of change and hatred of the anything perceived 'left' of center. The rabid, disjointed defense of the incontrovertible only magnifies the zealotry.

 
 
 
WallyW
2.1.2  WallyW  replied to  MrFrost @2.1    3 weeks ago
Trump literally has no morals, no class, no honesty and no loyalty to anyone or anything but himself. jrSmiley_90_smiley_image.gif

 
 
 
PJ
2.1.3  PJ  replied to  WallyW @2.1.2    3 weeks ago
Those supporters that would encourage this President and his Administration to continue to break the law are also enemies of our country.

 
 
 
bugsy
2.1.4  bugsy  replied to  PJ @2.1.3    2 weeks ago
to continue to break the law

What laws are those. Be specific.

"I don't like Trump or what he said" doesn't count.

 
 
 
MrFrost
2.1.5  MrFrost  replied to  bugsy @2.1.4    2 weeks ago
What laws are those. Be specific.

How many subpoenas has the trump admin ignored? You realize that's a crime, right? Then there is the whole Ukraine thing.... illegal as hell. 

 
 
 
bugsy
2.1.6  bugsy  replied to  MrFrost @2.1.5    2 weeks ago

These subpoenas are based on pure politics, not oversight. In addition, the House has not fully voted on conducting an impeachment inquiry because Pelosi knows those dems in red districts/states will have to go on record and summarily ousted next year. In addition, Republicans would have equal say in the investigation, including calling witnesses and subpoenaed records. Pelosi sure as hell doesn't want that.

You are right about the Ukraine thing being illegal. Biden threatening to withhold US taxpayer funds unless the Ukrainian president fired the prosecutor "coincidentally" investigating the company his son sits on their board was illegal. By getting that prosecutor fired within the timeline BIDEN demanded makes it look the more illegal. 

 
 
 
MrFrost
2.1.7  MrFrost  replied to  bugsy @2.1.6    2 weeks ago
These subpoenas are based on pure politics, not oversight.

They are legally submitted seeking valid information. Either way, it's illegal to ignore them. 

 
 
 
bugsy
2.1.8  bugsy  replied to  MrFrost @2.1.7    2 weeks ago

So you agree that Eric Holder ignoring subpoenas and being held in contempt of Congress was an illegal act...

Good to know...

 
 
 
MrFrost
3  MrFrost    3 weeks ago
In a summer 2018 call with Prime Minister Theresa May, Trump harangued the British leader about her country’s contribution to NATO. He then disputed her intelligence community’s conclusion that Putin’s government had orchestrated the attempted  murder and poisoning  of a former Russian spy on British soil. “Trump was totally bought into the idea there was credible doubt about the poisoning,” said one person briefed on the call. “A solid 10 minutes of the conversation is spent with May saying it’s highly likely and him saying he’s not sure.”

We can be fairly sure trump had NO evidence or proof that the spy wasn't poisoned by Russia, (Putin), so the only reason trump would cast doubt is in support of Putin. There is no other reason why he would bring it up. 

 
 
 
Dean Moriarty
3.1  Dean Moriarty  replied to  MrFrost @3    3 weeks ago

And he imposed sanctions on Russia because of it. 

U.S. President Donald Trump has imposed another round of sanctions on Russia over the poisoning of a former spy in Britain, the White House said on Friday,

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-russia-sanctions/u-s-imposes-new-sanctions-on-russia-over-skripal-poisoning-idUSKCN1US1OC

 
 
 
Paula Bartholomew
3.1.1  Paula Bartholomew  replied to  Dean Moriarty @3.1    3 weeks ago

Do you think that Putin really cares about sanctions hurting his people?  The man has billions and wants for nothing.  His people possibly starving and going without are just collateral damage to Putin.

 
 
 
WallyW
3.1.2  WallyW  replied to  Paula Bartholomew @3.1.1    3 weeks ago
So......
what should we do about him?
Putin, that is.

 
 
 
PJ
3.1.3  PJ  replied to  Dean Moriarty @3.1    3 weeks ago

No, he didn't, Congress did.  He and his Administration broke the law by delaying those sanctions.

 
 
 
PJ
3.1.4  PJ  replied to  Dean Moriarty @3.1    3 weeks ago
Those supporters that would encourage this President and his Administration to continue to break the law are also enemies of our country.
 
 
 
XDm9mm
3.1.5  XDm9mm  replied to  Paula Bartholomew @3.1.1    3 weeks ago
His people possibly starving and going without are just collateral damage to Putin.

Actually, "his people", as in virtually all Russians are doing pretty good, well at least in the major cities.  Those living out in the 'hinterlands' and essentially self sustaining on small farms and such, are getting along much like they have for generations before them.  Some go through hard times as their normal life style.

 
 
 
r.t..b...
3.1.6  r.t..b...  replied to  XDm9mm @3.1.5    3 weeks ago
virtually all Russians are doing pretty good

Unless you consider that they are completely voiceless; in that elections are a farce, representation of your concerns are a pipe dream, dissent means incarceration or worse, and any chance of making your life better is virtually impossible. Trumps wet dream. 

 
 
 
PJ
3.1.7  PJ  replied to  r.t..b... @3.1.6    2 weeks ago

I sure wish those who think Russia is so great would back up and move to Russia.  They are not wanted in this country.

 
 
 
XDm9mm
3.1.8  XDm9mm  replied to  r.t..b... @3.1.6    2 weeks ago
Unless you consider that they are completely voiceless; in that elections are a farce, representation of your concerns are a pipe dream, dissent means incarceration or worse, and any chance of making your life better is virtually impossible.

Exactly what does that have to do with what I replied to?  Show me exactly where in your response to me, you have evidence of "his people starving".

I expect better of you than to reply on totally different tangents.   Well, not really, it's typical.

 
 
 
XDm9mm
3.1.9  XDm9mm  replied to  PJ @3.1.7    2 weeks ago
I sure wish those who think Russia is so great would back up and move to Russia. 

So do I.   I'll even volunteer to help pack them out.

 
 
 
†hε pε⊕pレε'š ƒïšh
3.1.10  †hε pε⊕pレε'š ƒïšh  replied to  PJ @3.1.7    2 weeks ago

No one thinks Russia is great. What is really stupid is pitching a hoax and blaming a nuclear power for nothing they did and something the democrat party did.

Really dumb. Time to grow up, accept she lost in 2016 and move on.

 
 
 
r.t..b...
3.1.11  r.t..b...  replied to  XDm9mm @3.1.8    2 weeks ago
you have evidence of "his people starving".

Perhaps not literally, 9mm, but certainly in regard to their freedoms. Odd that you should hold up Russia as a model in deflecting against the issues at hand, and from a self-avowed patriot no less. Typical, indeed. 

 
 
 
XDm9mm
3.1.12  XDm9mm  replied to  Dean Moriarty @3.1    2 weeks ago
And he imposed sanctions on Russia because of it.  U.S. President Donald Trump has imposed another round of sanctions on Russia over the poisoning of a former spy in Britain, the White House said on Friday,

Shhhhh....   facts are anathema to Trump haters.

It's akin to splashing water on the wicked witch in the Wizard of Oz...  

 
 
 
XDm9mm
3.1.14  XDm9mm  replied to  r.t..b... @3.1.11    2 weeks ago
Perhaps not literally, 9mm, but certainly in regard to their freedoms. Odd that you hold up Russia as a model in deflecting against the issues at hand, and from a self-avowed patriot no less. Typical, indeed.

Great attempt at spin.  But it's still spin.

Now you can go back and show me specifically where I'm holding up Russia as a model of anything.  You can do that can't you?  Can't you?

 
 
 
r.t..b...
3.1.15  r.t..b...  replied to  XDm9mm @3.1.14    2 weeks ago
show me specifically where I'm holding up Russia as a model of anything.

Than why invoke them at all, unless in the stale attempt to distract from the actions of this administration or place nebulous blame on the actions of past administrations? 

 
 
 
JohnRussell
3.1.16  seeder  JohnRussell  replied to  †hε pε⊕pレε'š ƒïšh @3.1.10    2 weeks ago

Prove this "hoax". 

Trump was investigated because he and his associates were acting suspicious.  Trump lied and said he had no business dealings with Russia at the same exact time he was seeking Russian approval for a Trump Tower in Moscow. 

Stop defending this pathological liar. 

 
 
 
Paula Bartholomew
3.1.17  Paula Bartholomew  replied to  WallyW @3.1.2    2 weeks ago

I wish I had the answer to that.

 
 
 
bugsy
3.1.18  bugsy  replied to  PJ @3.1.7    2 weeks ago
I sure wish those who think Russia is so great would back up and move to Russia.

I don't think anyone would argue with you.

Now, do you feel the same about Socialism and those that think it's so great can move to, say, Venezuela?

 
 
 
XDm9mm
4  XDm9mm    2 weeks ago
Those supporters that would encourage this President and his Administration to continue to break the law are also enemies of our country.

Why do you find it necessary to quote yourself?   [deleted]

But please be specific who is encouraging President Trump and his Administration to break the law.  Be specific in your charges please and cite individuals and actual laws being broken.  

Damn you were quick PJ.   You deleted your post even before i could get a reply made.  Have no fear....  I'll leave it up anyway.

 
 
 
PJ
4.1  PJ  replied to  XDm9mm @4    2 weeks ago

I'm speaking truth.  Anyone who supports this President and his Administration breaking our laws and discarding our Constitution is an enemy to this country and a danger to our republic. 

It's plain english and should be easy to understand. 

I'll tell you one thing that Russia has done successfully.  They've allowed us to see who the traitors to this country and our Constitution are.  For the rest of my life I will continue to speak out against those fake americans and do everything in my power to see that they will always have a shadow associated with them.  History will depict them as what they really are.

 
 
 
XDm9mm
4.1.1  XDm9mm  replied to  PJ @4.1    2 weeks ago
I'm speaking truth.  Anyone who supports this President and his Administration breaking our laws and discarding our Constitution is an enemy to this country and a danger to our republic.  It's plain english and should be easy to understand. 

Yet one more time, I'll challenge you to BE SPECIFIC.   You can do that can you not?  As I noted earlier and what you responded to:

But please be specific who is encouraging President Trump and his Administration to break the law.  Be specific in your charges please and cite individuals and actual laws being broken. 

I'm obviously among those who you condemn.  However, as with President Trump, you cite no specific's.  All you accomplish is posting continual diatribes against President Trump and his supporters with no, allow me to repeat that, NO evidence other than abject hatred of the man and his supporters.

Now, cite specific provable charges with EVIDENCE or acknowledge that you have nothing other than supposition, conjecture, innuendo and an unfaltering hatred of President Trump and any that consider him accomplishing what he promised to accomplish while campaigning.

Like President Trump, I'm getting quite tired of being the target of slander, defamation and character assassination.  So, be specific in your charges, or apologize.

 
 
 
bugsy
4.1.2  bugsy  replied to  XDm9mm @4.1.1    2 weeks ago

I asked the same thing yesterday and was ignored, even though she posted several more times throughout the day on other seeds/threads.

I wonder why I was ignored?

Now, supposedly, there is a second "whistleblower". Here we go again. I don't think libs understand that there is a FULL transcript that shows the President did nothing wrong. Even the president of Ukraine said he was not pressured.

Of course, most liberals live by conspiracy theories. They say the transcript is fake because they know they have been had once again.

 
 
 
XDm9mm
4.1.3  XDm9mm  replied to  bugsy @4.1.2    2 weeks ago
I wonder why I was ignored?

That's easy to answer.   They have no logical response that can be supported with actual evidence.   

If it's not emotional and vitriolic against Donald Trump, they'll attack the message as well as the messenger.  Facts don't matter and are immaterial.

 
 
 
JohnRussell
4.1.4  seeder  JohnRussell  replied to  bugsy @4.1.2    2 weeks ago
Now, supposedly, there is a second "whistleblower". Here we go again. I don't think libs understand that there is a FULL transcript that shows the President did nothing wrong. Even the president of Ukraine said he was not pressured. Of course, most liberals live by conspiracy theories. They say the transcript is fake because they know they have been had once again.

This is all nonsense. What transcript do liberals say is fake? 

 
 
 
PJ
4.1.5  PJ  replied to  XDm9mm @4.1.1    2 weeks ago

[Deleted]

 
 
 
XDm9mm
4.1.6  XDm9mm  replied to  PJ @4.1.5    2 weeks ago
I'm not interested in having a discussion

You should have left it at that.  Everything beyond that was hyperbole and a personal attack.

 
 
 
PJ
4.1.7  PJ  replied to  XDm9mm @4.1.6    2 weeks ago
You should have left it at that.  Everything beyond that was hyperbole and a personal attack.

No, it wasn't a personal attack.  It was how I feel about trump supporters.  You pushed it until you forced me to respond and then you flagged it because you couldn't handle my answer. 

I don't respect trump supporters and I think they are enemies to America.  I am permitted my opinion.

 
 
 
Sister Mary Agnes Ample Bottom
4.1.8  Sister Mary Agnes Ample Bottom  replied to  XDm9mm @4.1.1    2 weeks ago
So, be specific in your charges, or apologize.

When a favor is asked, even if that favor is not granted, it puts one in debt to another.  If I ask to borrow $5.00 or $5,000,000 from you, I am automatically indebted to you, whether or not you loan me the money.  The asking creates the debt, because now, you know I need money, and that makes me vulnerable. 

Word-salad-ish?  Not really, especially when placed within the context of recent events.  What Donald Trump did was to put our country in debt to another country just by suggesting such a 'deal'.  Now, the entire world knows that the President can be bought by indulging in his off-the-chain narcissistic and needy behavior.  

Look at all the times Trump has said publicly 'I have absolute power' or 'I have the absolute right' to do things that he had no right to do.  He thinks that being President makes his power absolute.  Kim Jong Un has absolute power.  Vladimir Putin has absolute power.  They are the new Viagra for Donald Trump.  They are also examples of why the United States of America has a system of checks and balances. 

Also worth a mention: The leaders of two foreign countries recently allowed themselves to be dog-walked, by Trump, on National TV.  He did it for clear and obvious purposes.  Add to that the number of adversaries who would love to become the new sugar-daddies to any of our disadvantaged allies.  "Here's twice what the US has offered, no repayment necessary..."

 

 
 
 
bugsy
4.1.9  bugsy  replied to  JohnRussell @4.1.4    2 weeks ago
What transcript do liberals say is fake? 

There have been several on this very site that have made that accusation.

 
 
 
bugsy
4.1.10  bugsy  replied to  PJ @4.1.7    2 weeks ago

You have your right to your opinion, and those that you are insulting have a right to criticize your opinion, without the personal attacks.

 
 
 
PJ
4.1.11  PJ  replied to  bugsy @4.1.10    2 weeks ago

It wasn't a personal attack.

Maybe if Trump's base would have held him accountable to previous wrong doings and immoral acts we wouldn't be where we are today.  This is solely the fault of his base.  They allowed him to do anything without recourse.  Their lack of moral courage emboldened him.  Now he has braggadociously violated his oath of office.  If that is the type of country you want to live in then move to Russia or North Korea or China. 

This is America and we have laws!

 
 
 
lady in black
4.1.12  lady in black  replied to  PJ @4.1.11    2 weeks ago

72397961_10157706204071983_6139998548151

 
 
 
JohnRussell
4.1.13  seeder  JohnRussell  replied to  bugsy @4.1.9    2 weeks ago

I am asking you which transcript is it that liberals say is fake. 

Since the 'transcript' of the phone call with the Ukranian president incriminates Trump, I doubt you are referring to that one,  so which one is it that you say liberals are calling fake?

 
 
 
JohnRussell
4.1.14  seeder  JohnRussell  replied to  PJ @4.1.11    2 weeks ago
Maybe if Trump's base would have held him accountable to previous wrong doings and immoral acts we wouldn't be where we are today.

I wrote an article on this the other day that has about 300 comments.  This is a topic which the country NEEDS to discuss.  Donald Trump has NEVER been qualified, for one second, to be president of the United States. There was a mountain of information about him before the 2016 election which should have made any reasonable person say "hell, no". 

Now after 2  2/3 years of him in office there is a ton more of disqualifying information, right up to the latest. 

When , in the face of Trump's obvious lack fitness to hold high office, his followers continue to act like everything is A-Ok , it is natural, right, and necessary that the spotlight and scrutiny be turned to just what the hell is wrong with them. 

Criticism of Trump supporters is a national news issue and should not be deleted from Newstalkers unless it gets too personal. 

 
 
 
bugsy
4.1.15  bugsy  replied to  PJ @4.1.11    2 weeks ago
Maybe if Trump's base would have held him accountable to previous wrong doings and immoral acts we wouldn't be where we are today. 

What are those wrongdoings and immoral acts?

Be specific and don't give out your opinions or talking points you are told to use.

We all know that if Obama did the exact same things Trump is alleged to do, (he may have, but libs don't dare look into them) and republicans harassed him as democrats are doing, the crazies on the left would be screaming RACIST all day, every day to get the attention off him.

 
 
 
bugsy
4.1.16  bugsy  replied to  JohnRussell @4.1.14    2 weeks ago
I wrote an article on this the other day that has about 300 comments. 

And most of them were ridiculing the author.

 
 
 
PJ
4.1.17  PJ  replied to  JohnRussell @4.1.14    2 weeks ago

Yes, they are to blame for the division in the country and for the corruption of this Administration.  They have betrayed their country with their ignorance and inability to admit that they should have demanded Trump "be best" for all Americans.  They were happy to accept his low morality and crooked ways because he's a reflection of who they are in their own hearts.  

 
 
 
bugsy
4.1.18  bugsy  replied to  JohnRussell @4.1.13    2 weeks ago
I am asking you which transcript is it that liberals say is fake. 

I;m talking about the one you and your democrat friends screamed for Trump to release, and when he did, you gasped in surprise that he did.

Nothing in the Ukraine transcript incriminates Trump on any way.

You have hated this man since the day he rode the escalator, daring to run against your Abuela, and when he beat her, libs became so unhinged, if Trump would wipe his ass from back to front, they would be screaming for impeachment.

Now, do what you do best and insult me for being a Trump supporter. You never fail.

 
 
 
bugsy
4.1.19  bugsy  replied to  PJ @4.1.17    2 weeks ago
They were happy to accept his low morality and crooked ways

And you would have been happy to accept Hilary for her low morality and crooked ways.

 
 
 
JohnRussell
4.1.20  seeder  JohnRussell  replied to  bugsy @4.1.18    2 weeks ago

Trump asks a foreign leader, the president of Ukraine, to investigate Trump's election rival, Joe Biden. 

This is immoral, unethical, and probably illegal, and is the main reason he will be impeached. 

I see you agree with Trump though that it is "perfect". Not a surprise at all. 

 
 
 
PJ
4.1.21  PJ  replied to  bugsy @4.1.19    2 weeks ago

Well that's a pathetic argument. 

I took an oath to the Constitution of the United States.  I am still bound by that oath and I take it seriously every single day.  I don't care who is in Office they MUST honor their oath.

Your excuse for Trump betraying his oath and country is Hilary?  Seriously? 

THIS is why I didn't want to respond to your comments or other Trump supporter comments. 

 
 
 
MUVA
4.1.22  MUVA  replied to  PJ @4.1.17    2 weeks ago

No.

 
 
 
bugsy
4.1.23  bugsy  replied to  JohnRussell @4.1.20    2 weeks ago
Trump asks a foreign leader, the president of Ukraine, to investigate Trump's election rival, Joe Biden. 

Well, for starters, he did not ask for that because he is a political rival, nor did he ask for anything in return. Your reading of the transcript is subjective based on your hatred of Trump for the unholy reason that he is not Hillary.

By your logic, the Mueller report should never had happened because Hillary and Trump were political rivals and Hillary asked a British agent to did up dirt on Trump, which tuned out to be entirely false, and Hillary should be in prison now for doing it.

You have been saying that pretty much EVERYTHING Trump has done since he came down the escalator has been illegal. Why have your buddies in the democrat congress not filed impeachment charges for any of the crap you have been spewing for 3 years now?

I've told you once and I will tell you again. The loons on the far left in Congress RAN on impeaching Trump, no other reason.  Pelosi is doing this to protect those loons, especially those in districts where Trump won the state. She won't call for a full vote because that will put those loons on the hook.

If Trump is impeached in the House, he won't be found guilty in the Senate. Libs don't care about that. All they care about is they can go back and tell their loon base that they impeached Trump, exactly what they promised to do.

 
 
 
bugsy
4.1.24  bugsy  replied to  PJ @4.1.21    2 weeks ago
I took an oath to the Constitution of the United States.  I am still bound by that oath and I take it seriously every single day.  I don't care who is in Office they MUST honor their oath.

I did the same, Every 4 years for 20 years.

Nowhere did I use Hillary as an "excuse". If Hillary were President (thank God she's not), The liberal rabids would not have cared that there is documented evidence of her corruption and betrayal of the country by using her office of SoS to enrich herself through the Clinton Foundation. I wonder why you did not screech about that? Wait...no I don't.

The rabid loon left also does not care that Biden used his office of Vice President to enrich his son, and probably himself, by threatening a president of another country to fire a prosecutor that is "coincidentally" investigating the company the son is a board member of.

But.......Trump

 
 
 
JohnRussell
4.1.25  seeder  JohnRussell  replied to  bugsy @4.1.24    2 weeks ago

Right wing conspiracy theories is not documented evidence. 

 
 
 
bugsy
4.1.26  bugsy  replied to  JohnRussell @4.1.25    2 weeks ago

Let me help you with something, because I truly care...

Start al of your posts and seeds with "Once upon a time"

That will put everything you do into perspective.

 
 
 
JohnRussell
4.1.27  seeder  JohnRussell  replied to  bugsy @4.1.26    2 weeks ago

Bugsy, the protocols of Newstalkers, which they enforce quite strictly, are protecting you right now, so you should send the mods some gifts. 

I would just as soon go in another direction but they wont let me. 

They told me to "debate" you. Why the hell would I want to "debate" you? 

The rabid loon left also does not care that Biden used his office of Vice President to enrich his son, and probably himself, by threatening a president of another country to fire a prosecutor that is "coincidentally" investigating the company the son is a board member of.

There is no one of sound mind and in possession of the facts that agrees with that.  Be happy that is the only description I am allowed to use for your comment. 

 
 
 
bugsy
4.1.28  bugsy  replied to  JohnRussell @4.1.27    2 weeks ago
Bugsy, the protocols of Newstalkers, which they enforce quite strictly, are protecting you right now, so you should send the mods some gifts. 

You have said this many, many times, to pretty much all of the conservatives on here. What you are saying is you can't post anything to a conservative without there being insults and name calling, and you are mad about it.

I'm going to repost the part you highlighted in a more "friendly" tone...to prove You don't want to debate the substance of the post

The left also does not care that Biden used his office of Vice President to enrich his son, and probably himself, by threatening a president of another country to fire a prosecutor that is "coincidentally" investigating the company the son is a board member of.

Let's see what you do now...

 
 
 
JohnRussell
4.1.29  seeder  JohnRussell  replied to  bugsy @4.1.28    2 weeks ago
The left also does not care that Biden used his office of Vice President to enrich his son, and probably himself, by threatening a president of another country to fire a prosecutor that is "coincidentally" investigating the company the son is a board member of.

I'm not responsible for you not understanding facts, or your not understanding things you see or hear in the news. Seriously.  I'm not going to "debate" whether or not Biden threatened someone who was investigating Hunter Biden.  All legitimate news reports say there was no investigation at that time, "coincidental" or otherwise. 

Read some damn news beyond the conspiracy stuff you are locked into. 

 
 
 
bugsy
4.1.30  bugsy  replied to  JohnRussell @4.1.29    2 weeks ago

And there you have it.

You can't debate the substance of a post, you have to insult and personally attack another poster simply because of your hatred of Trump.

I posted the video of Biden saying he threatened the president of Ukraine with withholding US dollars if he did not fire the prosecutor investigating the company Biden's son "coincidentally" was a board member as a response to one of your posts yesterday..

You ignored that too because you couldn't defend it.

 
 
 
PJ
4.1.31  PJ  replied to  bugsy @4.1.24    2 weeks ago

20 years huh.......well you apparently didn't understand the oath you were taking no matter how many times you took it.  Otherwise you'd understand why what Trump has done is wrong.  I have 26 years and 13 more to go so I think I have you beat.  Maybe the oath didn't mean much to your generation.  That would explain among other reasons why Trump doesn't get it. 

You and I used to be able to find common ground when we focused on the issue.  Now I no longer trust your judgement.   It's broken and consumed by Hilary and what ifs.

 
 
 
MUVA
4.1.32  MUVA  replied to  PJ @4.1.31    2 weeks ago

As a civil service employee?If so who cares.

 
 
 
PJ
4.1.33  PJ  replied to  MUVA @4.1.32    2 weeks ago

Well then we're even because I don't give a shit that you're a half black republican who loves the racist president Donald Trump. 

giphy.gif

 
 
 
MUVA
4.1.34  MUVA  replied to  PJ @4.1.33    2 weeks ago

Why did you bring the fact I'm biracial into the conversation? I didn't bring up your race seems a little telling.  

 
 
 
bugsy
4.1.35  bugsy  replied to  PJ @4.1.31    2 weeks ago
I have 26 years and 13 more to go so I think I have you beat.

OOOOOOOhhhhhhhhhhh...big deal. I'm 53 years old, so I don't know what "my generation" means to you, except apparently you hate us.

We have never seen common ground. You have always gone to personal insults, as you did here, and ran away when proven wrong.

Yesterday you made a post about Biden is being picked on because he was the the VP of a black man. My response to you was "So?". You never responded. It shows race means much more to you than truth.

Here is a question to you. Let's see if you can answer it without the racial overtones. In your post above to MUVA, you said Trump was racist. What has Trump said or done that makes him racist, and before you answer, "I don't like him.....and he is a meanie" doesn't count.

 
 
 
PJ
4.1.36  PJ  replied to  MUVA @4.1.34    2 weeks ago

Because you always bring it up.  Look at me, look at me everybody!  I'm half black and I love Donald so he must not be a racist.  

 
 
 
bugsy
4.1.37  bugsy  replied to  PJ @4.1.36    2 weeks ago
Because you always bring it up.

Doesn't mean you have to

 
 
 
PJ
4.1.38  PJ  replied to  bugsy @4.1.35    2 weeks ago

Why don't you google it yourself.  You've been given example after example of Trump's racism for over 3 years now.  If you refuse to accept those facts then why would I waste my time on you. 

Let's take a break.  Our discussion is going down hill. 

 
 
 
bugsy
4.1.39  bugsy  replied to  PJ @4.1.38    2 weeks ago
Why don't you google it yourself.  You've been given example after example of Trump's racism for over 3 years now.  If you refuse to accept those facts then why would I waste my time on you. 

You throw this out then you say you want to take a break? All it says is you have nothing concerning your claims.

BTW...I'm OK with the break.

 
 
 
JohnRussell
4.1.40  seeder  JohnRussell  replied to  bugsy @4.1.30    2 weeks ago
I posted the video of Biden saying he threatened the president of Ukraine with withholding US dollars if he did not fire the prosecutor investigating the company Biden's son "coincidentally" was a board member as a response to one of your posts yesterday..

Biden said no such thing.  It is a shame you are allowed to blatantly misrepresent the news on this forum and those who confront you about it often have their comments deleted. 

 
 
 
MUVA
4.1.41  MUVA  replied to  PJ @4.1.36    2 weeks ago

No I bring it up when somebody calls me a Nazi or when a person tells me how all black people fell.

 
 
 
PJ
4.1.42  PJ  replied to  MUVA @4.1.41    2 weeks ago

shrug......well now you've learned a lesson between intent and interpretation.  Your purpose for bringing up your race wasn't interpreted the way you intended.

 
 
 
MUVA
4.1.43  MUVA  replied to  PJ @4.1.42    2 weeks ago

I can't help if some people are dense.

 
 
 
bugsy
4.1.44  bugsy  replied to  JohnRussell @4.1.40    2 weeks ago
Biden said no such thing.  It is a shame you are allowed to blatantly misrepresent the news on this forum and those who confront you about it often have their comments deleted. 

Then you refuse to see the video for what it displays. I see you think the contents of the video is subjective for you at best because of your blind hatred of  a President because he is not named Hillary.  He specifically sad he told the president he had 6 hours before he got on the plane to fire the prosecutor or else Ukraine would not get the billion in aid they were supposed to get. There is no misinterpretation, it is there on video for all to see. In fact, the president fired the prosecutor within the time frame Biden demanded. THAT, my boy, is true quid pro quo, a deal that was demanded...and met.....on video.

Same thing with the phone call transcript. Because of your blind hatred, your subjective mind sees GUILTY in everything Trump does, no matter what it is. He could wipe his ass from back to front and you will demand Pelosi impeach him for it.

As far as comments deleted, you may want to find someone else to whine to. I have had NO comments deleted, nor have I flagged anything.

 
 
 
Paula Bartholomew
4.2  Paula Bartholomew  replied to  XDm9mm @4    2 weeks ago

Trump doesn't need encouragement to do that.  He does it all on his own.

 
 
 
Freedom Warrior
5  Freedom Warrior    2 weeks ago

Horrified yeah right so come up with more of this nonsense I mean they can’t come up with anything else, as if that has some meaning and all the shit that they’ve made up so far they’re just going to go ahead and make up more shit to the end of time apparently but it’s got no substance they can’t point to any specific action anybody gives a shit about.   Like they just continue to sniff farts they can’t seem to get enough of it .

 
 
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